Talk:Augustus

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Featured article Augustus is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 23, 2008.
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July 18, 2005 Featured article candidate Not promoted
August 31, 2007 Featured article candidate Promoted
Current status: Featured article
Wikipedia Version 1.0 Editorial Team / v0.5 / Vital (Rated FA-class, Top-importance)
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Date of Reign has an error.[edit]

I can't edit the page, but I'd like to point out that the info bar on the right side says that he reigned from "16 January 27 BC – 19 August AD 14", I could be wrong, but shouldn't that 2nd date be 19 August 14 AD? Just that the 14 and the AD are switched around incorrectly. Just wanted to point that out, if I'm wrong then ignore this. Thanks!

Biblical reference?[edit]

Should it be included in the article that Caesar Augustus was mentioned in the Bible?

"In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be enrolled. This was the first enrollment, when Quirinius was governor of Syria. And all went to be enrolled, each to his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. And while they were there, the time came for her to be delivered. And she gave birth to her first-born son and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn." (Gospel of Luke 2:1-7)

-- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 04:35, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

No. Johnbod (talk) 13:50, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
I honestly cannot see how this is relevant in the article for Augustus, although it might be relevant in some article dealing with Christianity in the Roman Empire. Pericles of AthensTalk 23:01, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Murena confusion.[edit]

Under "Second settlement", it states that "Aulus Terentius Varro Murena (who had fought against Julius Caesar and supported Cassius and Brutus) was executed in consequence of his involvement in the Marcus Primus affair". However it was actually his half-brother Lucius Licinius Varro Murena[1] who was involved in the Primus affair. Aulus Terentius Varro Murena died for unknown and unrelated reasons. See also Goldsworthy for reference.[2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghallach (talkcontribs) 12:42, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Good catch - I came to the talk page wondering about this. Unfortunately I don't have editorial permission to fix it, however! 2605:E000:8A48:400:B818:E3AA:E07A:B4C1 (talk) 06:19, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

References

No Mention of Either Julia's Exile - Why?[edit]

Hi. Why is there no mention of either Julie the Elder's exile (or fall from grace) or Julia the Younger's and their subsequent admonishments? Is that deliberate to make Augustus appear more humane or simply a failure of effective reporting? This article is extraordinarily biased and makes Augustus'(as it also does for some similar reasons with Julius Caesar) legacy very one-sided. Why is that? Where is the rest of his history and the analysis that accompanies it? Is this just a consequence of the lopsidedness of Wikipedia's dominance by male writers? This is a constant problem of historical reporting but is an exaggerated consequence in Wikipedia. Cheers. Stevenmitchell (talk) 11:48, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Pericles' reply[edit]

@Stevenmitchell: hello. I was the chief editor of this article in the past; I nominated and brought it to Wikipedia:Featured articles status roughly a decade ago. Firstly, perhaps we can include further information about Julia the Elder and Julia the Younger after we form a Wikipedia:Consensus about it, seeing how this is already a featured article.

Secondly, what you readily ascribe to "deliberate" malice or ill-intent is more likely the result of Wikipedia:Summary style, if not Wikipedia:Article size. Choosing what to include in this article is a delicate balancing act, seeing how there is a range of topics to cover, from high politics to military campaigns, with family matters as the other main concern. Wikipedia:Links are provided for Julia the Elder and Julia the Younger so that readers can discover more information about them in their respective articles, without bloating the size of this article, which is not allowed to exceed even 60 KB of text without a reasonable justification.

Thirdly, your claim that this article is "very one-sided" and "extraordinarily biased" and makes Augustus "appear humane" should be tempered by the fact that this article includes the following unflattering information about him:

  • His execution of 300 Roman senators and equestrians allied to Lucius Antonius, as well as burning Perusia to the ground, a bloody act criticized by his contemporary Sextus Propertius
  • His participation in the murders of fellow Roman citizens in collusion with Marcus Antonius (see the sub-section on "Proscriptions")
  • His order given to Tiberius forcing him to divorce Vipsania Agrippina and wed Julia the Elder instead, which produced a loveless marriage; the cynical calculation was also made that Nero Claudius Drusus' marriage to Antonia Minor was "unbreakable", so Augustus did not arrange a similar forced divorce between the two of them.
  • His exile and potential assassination of Agrippa Postumus, his own grandson
  • Multiple claims of him being a coward, by ancient and early modern sources
  • Multiple claims of him being an autocrat and an oppressive tyrant, by ancient and early modern sources

Fourthly, in regards to your musing about the "deliberate" intent of other editors, you should familiarize yourself with Wikipedia:No personal attacks. It is incredibly rude to begin a conversation by leveling accusations. The anonymity of the Internet is no excuse for that, especially when you should have followed the guideline of Wikipedia:Assume good faith.

As for your rhetorical questions about the possible genders of the editors of this article (which is dangerously close to Wikipedia:OUTING), might I also remind you that Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a forum. This is a discussion page for the community on how to improve the article. All other discussions belong elsewhere, outside of Wikipedia.

Finally, in regards to your query about "the rest of his history" and further analysis, perhaps we should quote Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not:

Textbooks and annotated texts. Wikipedia is an encyclopedic reference, not a textbook. The purpose of Wikipedia is to present facts, not to teach subject matter. It is not appropriate to create or edit articles that read as textbooks, with leading questions and systematic problem solutions as examples. These belong on our sister projects, such as Wikibooks, Wikisource, and Wikiversity. Some kinds of examples, specifically those intended to inform rather than to instruct, may be appropriate for inclusion in a Wikipedia article.

This article is not a book. It is an online encyclopedic entry that is supposed to present the most basic facts with some level of detail, but not much. It is not meant to include every detail that has ever been known about Augustus. The article is not a proper biography you can buy in a bookstore. There are many facts about Augustus' personal relationships that have been carefully excluded from the article, in order to make it balanced and readable/digestible for the average visitor (who will not spend much time if any beyond the Wikipedia:Lead section).

If you are willing to keep these strictures and Wiki guidelines in mind, I'd be happy to include further information about both Julias, although you won't be satisfied much if you're expecting several paragraphs on the matter. A sentence or two should suffice, although we should generally aim for the reduction of material in this article. Adding more and more moves the article further and further away from the state that it was in when it was successfully nominated as a Featured Article. A couple sentences about both Julia's would fit quite well in the "Death and Succession" section. Regards, --Pericles of AthensTalk 15:16, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Augustus' birthplace. The "property of Ox Head" on the Palatine Hill is called Ad Capita Bubula in Latin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:BC42:0:B5F1:B2E1:AD9E:23C7 (talk) 18:05, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 April 2017[edit]

Can someone add to Augustes's personal information card that he was a triumvir of Rome (as is present on the pages of Marc Antony and Lepidus) 108.53.207.178 (talk) 23:52, 23 April 2017 (UTC)