User talk:ThatPeskyCommoner/Archive 11

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Archive 10 Archive 11 Archive 12

WP:V mediation step two

Hello, and thanks again for taking part in the MedCab mediation about Wikipedia:Verifiability. I noticed that you haven't yet submitted a draft of the lede as I outlined in the instructions for step two, so I am just sending this message as a reminder. The deadline was 10:00 am (UTC) on Sunday, March 11, but as there are still eight drafts left to come in I am extending this by a day, to 10:00 am (UTC) on Monday, March 12. To recap, I would like you to draft your ideal version of the lead to the policy and post it on the mediation page, without any commentary. You can find the full instructions at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/27 February 2012/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Step two. Please let me know if you have any questions, and I would especially appreciate you getting in touch if you may have difficulty meeting the new deadline. Best wishes — Mr. Stradivarius 13:54, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Hello again Pesky, this is to let you know that I am extending the deadline by another day, to 10:00 am (UTC) on Tuesday, March 13. This time, I'm going to go ahead without people who don't submit a draft before the deadline. Don't worry, though - If I progress without you, then it doesn't mean that I'm kicking you out, it just means that you will have to catch up when you are ready to participate again. Also, if you let me know that you will have problems submitting things on time, then I may be able to make concessions for you, so I would be grateful if you could do that rather than just leaving it until the deadline. Thanks — Mr. Stradivarius 13:39, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

About Andrew Alexander (2003)

Hi Pesky, I wondered if you saw this tip about Alexander's BA thesis? I'd follow it up myself, but I seem to be having a bit of a break at the mo. It occurs to me that, if Alexander's BA thesis isn't properly published (and it'd be unusual if it was, obv), it can't be cited on WP – but it would still be great to have sight of it! Also, Alexander should've cited his sources, so they can be cited – even via the BA thesis I'd have thought, e.g. per WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT…? I've never done that before (i.e. "citation–>unpublished thesis–>RS"), and someone (i.e. not me!) might have something to say about it, but I don't think it'd be unreasonable...? Dunno, really, but anyway fingers crossed that we can get a copy somehow. Hope you're ok. Nortonius (talk) 12:44, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Ooh, thanks! I've been avoiding article work at the mo, as I can't entirely trust that my judgment is 100% sound, and I'm happier with making unholy messes in talk space than in article space ... heh! I think the fact that Alexander's BA thesis is quoted by other RS's, so Alexander himself is considered to be "reliable" (as in expert-on-the-subject) by others of similar distinction. Bearing in mind that his MA (or at least large chunks of it) is available "reliably" at cited by others, I would think that would give sufficient oomph to his standing. I can't imagine any but the most obsessively nit-picking and counter-productive editors would then question Alexander's reliability. (At least, I sincerely hope they wouldn't!) I still haven't done that painting yet ... though it's becoming clearer in my mind, day on day.) Pesky (talk) 13:45, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

ZOMG ... Acting suspiciously? Really? (non-Wiki)

Don't be obsessively clean! ... things could get worse than you think ... it's not just a waste of soap! Pesky (talk) 14:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

That gave me a good giggle although it raises the did the police find the man "scrubbing his genitals in the shower" when they were just doing door to door inquiries? OohBunnies! Leave a message :) 14:20, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
If you read down further in the article it says that when the police asked if he was home the girlfriend lied and said no - they were suspicious, so searched the apartment and found him... Dana boomer (talk) 14:31, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
…but, why did his partner say he wasn't in? And, what was his "thoroughly obnoxious" behaviour when arrested? How would we behave if our homes were invaded illegally by the police, and we were arrested for something we hadn't done, while washing our "toilet areas"? I'm wondering if my obnoxiousness would be adequately thorough! Questions, quisteons! Nortonius (talk) 14:40, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm thinking that his obnoxious behaviour was probably because he was naked in the shower and the police had barged in. Imagining the scene, I can just picture him yelling, "Get away, I'm washin' mah balls here!" I assume his partner lied because she knew he was in the middle of an obsessive ball-washing spree and would thus be unresponsive to being questioned or something. That's my guess. OohBunnies! Leave a message :) 14:47, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Excellent reasoning, homes! (soz I've been watching more The Shield than reading stuff by Conan Doyle) I hereby promote you to Toilet Invasion Theorist, 1st Class (TIT1ST). Nortonius (talk) 15:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Do I get a badge? OohBunnies! Leave a message :) 15:14, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Badge duly awarded! Seriously, though, if my other half was busy having a shower, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to say he "wasn't in" (as in the Olde Etiquettey "not at home to visitors"). And if the Police turned up and arrested me on suspicion of washing my bits in the privacy of my own shower, I expect I might well be pretty "obnoxious", too! I wonder what words would be perfectly reasonable to describe the Police themselves ... I'd think that "obnoxious" is probably the mildest epithet one could readily think of! Pesky (talk) 16:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Good for discussion

Hi Pesky, looks like the draft at wt:civ brought forth some discussion, which is good. Getting back to what is supposed to be happening at User:Ched Davis/civility sandbox I suggest we need to put more thought into the style of writing, or styles of writing which are best suited for the composition of Polpages like wp:civ. Have you looked at for instance Help:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual? I have and at this time, not overly impressed with the style of the writing there. Seems a bit dogmatic, a bit sort of advertisy, a bit sort of close and personal without much personality. Maybe I am just hard to please. Lot of good info there, quite comprehensive, so I oughtn't complain, but kinda dissapointingly dullsville, like it came from an advertising agency, rather than real people. You interested in taking a look? Cheers NewbyG ( talk) 12:41, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm absolutely convinced that, in all policy pages, the writing should be as simple, clear, and non-verbose as is humanly possible. Policy pages that read as though some pompous post-grad lecturer with zero charisma has written them are just plain irritating when they should be written in a way that one would describe the policy to (for example) a favourite nephew. Pesky (talk) 17:43, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Yeah well, Pesky, agreed, but you're probably aware that (2) editors currently engaged in discussion here can both be accused of long-windedness and a certain degree of obtuseness on occasion (actually, attending to a different drum as it were may apply) and speaking for myself, charisma isn't that the name of some lady from Spain?
What would help greatly, if 'twere possible, is (1) a razor-sharp deliniation of the key topics, (2) accompanied by exactly-measured amplification, and (3) written in a carefully-modulated and deliberately-employed writing style(s). I can help there, can't I? I can do fix typo with aplomb, Cheers NewbyG ( talk) 18:18, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
You can help, yes. Whenever I'm writing for "the great unknown" (or teaching anyone I've never met before), I have to take great care to start off with whatever language would have been easy for youngsters I used to teach, or for the foreign students here to learn English with whom I associated in my teens. Assume intelligence, but not necessarily brilliant command of high-level language. I was interested in your different drum link - I was expecting it to be to Thoreau, but it wasn't! You and I both need to be careful not to irritate other people when looking at getting on with improving policy pages. Elen and Fluff are good collegiate souls with good hearts and great brains; if I'd been allowed to hand-pick a team for this, coincidentally, they would both have been on my list! Ain't life strange, eh?! Pesky (talk) 19:50, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Indeed. NewbyG ( talk) 20:07, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

() Just noting more worthwhile discussion is occurring at wt:civ where you are getting some good riffs off. Now someone mentioned wp:BEANS, and I was put in mind of this gem of a comment Ahh yes, posting... it here brings it to the attention of maybe a hundred times more people, of whom some don't know what they're doing, and some would be better off not doing what they do! LOL NewbyG ( talk) 02:14, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I'm agreeably surprised at the level of productive thinking going on over at civ. And that other thing - wow! The temptation to go immediately to the page and see what there was! Someone obviously didn't realise quite how motivational things along the lines of "OMG! Don't look at this!" are! Pesky (talk) 09:29, 14 March 2012 (UTC)


I watch (Ched's page and) your determination towards more civility with pleasure. I started the other end, same direction, perhaps you want to join there. The one who framed Geometry guy's wise statement, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:39, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

The framed words were continued, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
I watch GG's page, too! We have a lot of very good-hearted and clear-thinking people in here. Pesky (talk) 11:40, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Did you follow to read Great Dismal Swamp maroons? If you agree that the author should not remain blocked you could sign here, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:19, 14 March 2012 (UTC)


Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg inspiration of civility
Thank you for speaking up for civility, decency and fairness, treating editors as living people, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:58, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Awww, thanks! Pesky (talk) 11:25, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

For some good images to take in as a supply for your treatment see this gallery Düsseldorf school of painting, where my main page pic (talk) is also featured. Best wishes! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:09, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
You are amazing! Back to editing already! I just went on a spring walk and thought of you, looking at blossoming periwinkle! - So the images helped? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:48, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Passion: He was despised - and St. Matthew on my user, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:40, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Frohe Ostern! - and Easter on my user, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:13, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
You mentioned "keeping your eyes on the map". If I read the map right, there are obstacles like "thirsting for blood and demanding punishment" and "flesh owed". Do you have civil ideas for a passage? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:19, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

I have a date!

Happy Wolfie!

Wheeeee! I have a date with my favourite neurosurgeon – in just under two weeks' time! I have been waiting far too long for this, already; the damned glitchiness of constant neuropathic pain, loss of sensation when I do need it, compromised motor function over about a sixth of my body, and all that goes with it, has been causing me so many hassles ... it will be just great to have my neck sliced open, pulled around, drilled and re-bored, and generally mangled ;P Pesky (talk) 13:17, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Pesky, that's great news. The manglers, drillers and reborers never promise you anything but I've had two such ops, and each has been of enormous benefit. Haploidavey (talk) 13:30, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Will think of you. Like how you take it in style! - My date was yesterday: only a few hours between my first GA nom and passing, precious! Today is also a good one: the husband of a dear woman I sing with is on the Main page. She, Gisela Schuster, is bound to a wheelchair and has an admirable spirit! Keep it up! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:40, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Well done! Pesky (talk) 15:10, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Great news indeed Pesky, I'll keep my fingers, knees, eyes etc. crossed for you! :o) Nortonius (talk) 13:43, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
I have had such awesomely good results from almost all of my various surgeries, that I'm (mostly) hopeful about any such procedure. That is, until the Devil's Advocate part of my brain starts saying things like "Ah, but now you need to think about the law of averages, and the percentage of operations which end up with complications," and stuff like that. Brains are funny things. On the whole, I'm pretty chilled about surgery, but there are always those few seconds in the theatre ante-room where you think "OK, maybe this time I won;t wake up, or will wake up and discover something really bad happened." I get over those by joking with the theatre team, on the whole. After all, there's not a lot of point in worrying about it; worrying doesn't actually change anything. I am soooo looking forward to regaining some decent use and sensation. Besides which, my neurosurgeon and I get on like a house on fire. Pesky (talk) 15:08, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Yay! I can cross my toes for you too! (noogies at Nortonius for mentioning eyes! LOL!) If you actually KNOW the surgeon, they are far less likely to think you're in for, say, a hysterectomy or something! Good luck! Montanabw(talk) 16:36, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
This is my guy :o) He's a warm and caring chap, and great fun. As well as seriously expert. He works here, as well as the place over the road from there! Pesky (talk) 16:45, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
And in the USA we have political factions that claim that UK style health care would mean we'd have people dying in the streets, unable to access "rationed" health care. Haven't seen a real life case of that yet. (The American health care system is simple: If you're working poor, don't get sick) Montanabw(talk) 00:10, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
The UK health system is rather simple; if you're a UK citizen then you're entitled to free health care. In fact a friend of mine, who was diabetic and working in the US, had to return to the UK after his health insurance ran out when he was made redundant. I would clobber with the biggest bat I could find anyone who thought that the basic idea of the NHS was in any way anything other than a fundamental change on a par with the abolition of slavery. Which it might be worth noting that the Royal Navy played a very big part in. Malleus Fatuorum 00:34, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
In fact anyone found in distress will receive whatever medical treatment they need, regardless of their ability to pay. I really do believe that we've given two great gifts to the world: our empire and our NHS, two great gifts. Malleus Fatuorum 00:45, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I couldn't agree more. Without the NHS, (a) I would be dead, and (b) I would be crippled if I weren't dead. I've almost lost count of the number of surgeries I've had (just to give you guys an idea, this will the the 14th in 3 years), and every single one of them has had a major positive impact on my quality of life / health. If I had been in the US, no insurance company would have given me cover, I don't think. And as for the Empire, if you look around the world today and see just how much is owed to the Empire of the past, you'd have to be singularly unobservant not to appreciate the impact the Brits have had. Phenomenal. I don;t know quite what it is about the Brits, but we are different in some fundamental ways. Whether it's because we're island people, or because we're descended from so many different adventurous / invasive / innovative and downright courageous stock, or a combination of a hundred different things, I have no idea. But we are distinctive. (And, of course, we're the bestest ;P ) The horsey people will know just how much British horse and pony breeds have affected horses around the world. I think only the Arab / Arabian has had more global impact than the British breeds. (And the Iberian breeds are the next in terms of global impact, I think.) And we're a set of comparatively tiny islands. Wow. Just wow. Pesky (talk) 11:08, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Sigh. I hear this sort of talk from Canadians and Aussies as well. I've yet to hear a REAL person who speaks UK English say they'd dump their health care system for the USA model. Yet here in the states, the right wing is screaming that "Obamacare" (a plan that basically says you have to buy health insurance out of pocket unless you're real poor, no one can be denied insurance and maybe there will be some subsidies to help the working class, but not much until 2014) is "socialized medicine" and will destroy the American way of life. Politicians are running on a platform promising to repeal it and let the "free market" have its way (I use preceding terminology deliberately). I am amongst the fortunate to have insurance, but as my spouse and I are both self-employed and over 50 with normal minor stuff for that age range, we are classed as "high risk." (Neither of us have been hospitalized in decades) Not having the benefit of an employer-wide group, we had two options: Paying for a decent policy -- meaning about a $5000 annual deductible for us both that paid about 80% of most everything after that for about $1200-$1500 a month, or what we could afford, which is just under $500 a month for a "catastrophic care" policy with an $11,000+ family deductible that will pay 100% after that. Our perfectly healthy in every way and under 30 adult child has to pay over $200 a month for a similar policy. In other words, the ambulance will pick us up and take us to the hospital, and we won't have to sell our home and declare bankruptcy if someone gets a hot appendix, but we will still wind up maxing out at least one credit card to pay the hospital. And the political right claims that the UK & Canada have people dying because they can't get certain operations the instant they want/need them or even because there are quotas and rationing of "socialized" medicine. Montanabw(talk) 16:58, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
It's pathetic, really, isn't it? You ought to emigrate – you'd love to live where I do! I think if the US got some honest statisticians (?) to work out a per-capita rate of anxiety, poor access to adequate care, bankruptcy as a result of needing care, and dying for lack of care for the US and the UK, it would be bloody clear who had the better healthcare system. Pesky (talk) 17:04, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
There are criticisms of the the waiting list for non-urgent treatment, but you really can't fault the way that emergency treatment is delivered here. A few years ago I slipped on some ice while going down a flight of steps and broke my arm. I didn't realise at first that it was anything worse than a bit of bruising, as it took a little while for the pain to kick in. It wasn't until about two in the morning it became obvious that there was something serious going on, and I woke my wife up to take me to our local hospital. I'll never forget that drive, every bump in the road was agony! I was given pain killers and X-rayed immediately, and by 9 o'clock I was on the operating table having my arm pinned back together. Malleus Fatuorum 17:28, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Oops! It really is amazing what that first overload of endorphin-release can get us humans through. I hope you immobilised the arm properly before getting into the car! I hate having to wait for non-urgent stuff (this neck thing, f'rinstance). Though the really annoying thing is waiting for the consultant appointment to get onto the list for the non-urgent surgery. I have another op required this year (hopefully!); had the non-consultant appointment, scans, etc. within a reasonable space of time, but the first available consultant-appointment wasn't until four months after the scans – just not enough consultants to go around! Now, if we could ditch a few of the management staff, and increase the number of available medical and surgical staff ... Pesky (talk) 18:16, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Alberta geographically resembles Montana in many ways, I will admit to the occasional temptation. I don't think I could hack the UK, I barely tolerated the cloudy weather of Missoula, Montana in winter when I lived there! I think the Canadians might take us, we aren't vagrants or anything. At least, if we got there before we got sick. And if they'd not kick us out for opposition to the Athabasca oil sands project. Montanabw(talk) 19:34, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I like the pics I've seen of Alberta. Pesky (talk) 19:47, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
It's a pretty special moment to hear Neil Young perform Four Strong Winds at a concert in Alberta. I pretty much was ready to not go back! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 19:51, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────That must have been incredible.

'Bout time too, with this op - as of this afternoon, the whole top of my left arm wants to just hang there like a dead thing; I'm currently having to type with my left foot propped up, so that I can prop up my left arm on my leg, just to keep my left hand at keyboard level :o( Tried to turn of a light switch just now, and you would not believe the effort it took to do it. Bloody thing ... Pesky (talk) 23:56, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi there Pesky, please accept if you would, now my on-going wishes that your ability to succeed and overcome will sustain through the course of your treatment, and obtain for you from the operation performed by your doctors and carers the most-highly wondrous and gratifying outcome! And whatever your personal belief-system, which I certainly respect, I offer these words of succour, which came to me from a helping source at a time when I was in suffering.
Thank You Father,

For making Your dwelling in hearts broken by hardship and sorrow. Nowhere is Your healing presence so evident as in the place of pain and suffering.

Wishing you the best, always, NewbyG ( talk) 00:39, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, Newby! It will be great to have the use of my arm back again properly! Post-surgery pain is a transient thing, and the end is very much worth the means and all associated with it. It's going to mean that I'm not even allowed to hold a pony's lead-rop for at least six weeks after the op, but fortunately I have a very competent son who can take over breaking in and schooling the lads (and the grey mare, if I can catch her, and if she isn't in foal!) while I watch and instruct! I'm also looking forward to being able to drive again sometime soon! Pesky (talk) 09:15, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

That's terrific news! Sorry for not seeing this sooner, but at least the surgery is fairly close by the time this comment has landed. :P Hugs and best wishes, wctaiwan (talk) 16:11, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Hugs to you, too! I've picked up a bit of a cold in the last couple of days, but hopefully it will be gone before The Big Day. I can't wait to get fixed up :D Pesky (talk) 17:13, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
I see you edited post-op yesterday Pesky, woohoo! I was worried they might cancel at the last minute... Here's to a speedy recovery! Nortonius (talk) 11:22, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
Hear hear! Wishing you the very best as you get over the surgery. — Mr. Stradivarius 12:54, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Help please

Hi there Pesky. I am involved in an argument at the Great Dismal Swamp maroons article involving the use of caps for the word "maroons". If you are interested you may see the discussion I opened on the talk page. I come to you because you have been around the Wikipedia block so many times that you may be aware of where I can go for help. I'm often willing to go with the flow, trusting group wisdom, but once and a while I do dig my heals in and this is one of those times. Any suggestions about where I may find Wikipedia-use-of-caps in this particular situation? Thanks, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 19:14, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

I'll take a look. Can't promise miracles, but I'll see if there's anything I can do. Pesky (talk) 19:30, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
IMHO, it isn't even an argument. I suggested Gandy just move it and see who gets pissed. It's already been moved back and forth three times over this and the actual content editors are tired and don't feel like fighting it any more. Montanabw(talk) 19:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Extended content

Like you need this, I sure don't

I've got a history with this editor and so I think someone with a slower pulse should handle further discussion: Talk:English_saddle#Any_editors_here_ever_hear_of_.22references.22.3F Montanabw(talk) 19:15, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Just started wikipedian today. Saw this on my way up on my watchlist. I can respond to them from here on out if you would like. Just don't tell my mother. If she knew I was touching the English saddle page she would kill me... Western saddle is the only saddle. Bgwhite (talk) 19:30, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I will protect you! I actually rather like Aussie saddles, but I'm not proud ... @Montana, sure, I'll look in and see if I can help. Pesky (talk) 19:32, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Full disclosure: I think this is payback for the discussion at Talk:Kura (Japanese saddle). Just so's ya knows. And the article would benefit from more references, I just don't want to get into a "delete everything without a source" because it's a long, and mostly accurate (at least as to the USA) article. Montanabw(talk) 19:51, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm sure that when (hah!) I have some spare time (more hah!) and can get my textbooks back out of the mess storage unit, I will be able to get some citations in there. Pesky (talk) 20:12, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Montanabw, it is just as likely that your attempt at renaming the Kura (Japanese saddle) article is payback for me not letting you revert my edits on saddle and stirrup, and for my confronting your ownership issues on the Horses in warfare lead image squabble, and then there was Packsaddle and Pack horse. I can list other equine related articles that are complete failures as far as references and you do not seem to have made any attempt to correct the situation on those articles, take Equine conformation for example, you admitted that this article needed to be fixed a long time ago and as yet nothing has been done about it. But somehow the fate of the world hangs on the name of Kura (Japanese saddle). Since you have no knowledge or interest in Japanese related equine information or articles why the sudden concern? I was using the English saddle article as an example of how "guidelines" can on one hand be so easily ignored and yet those same "guidelines" are suddenly brought up as a (weapon) reason to rename an article that you have no interest in. Im just saying.....

Samuraiantiqueworld (talk) 20:46, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Samuraiantiqueworld, my talk page is a Mandatory Truce Zone; all weapons have to be left outside the door. Please don't bring arguments over here, restrict them to the relevant talk page. We don't deal in accusations of ownership, etc. in here. It's not done. I'd appreciate it if you were to remove your comment over to either the article's talk page, or to MTBW's talk page, if you want to discuss any issue with MTBW. It certainly doesn't belong on my talk page. Having said that, if you feel like taking refuge in the Mandatory Truce Zone at any time, and can just hang out, chill out, and chat, then that's OK, but I don't want squabbles in here. Pesky (talk) 21:13, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Adding: I've taken a look at your talk page, related pages, and several of your contributions in talk pages. It seems to me that you come across as very confrontational and angsty a lot – I notice you've had a few people asking you not to indulge in personal attacks. Would you consider being a little more kind in your approach to other editors? I think you might find you got on better that way. Having said that, I've also looked at your images on Commons - and wow! What a superb collection of pics! That's some amazing stuff there, it would be great if many more other editors could upload such a fantastic collection. I'm sure most of us have never seen anything like some of that :D Brill! Pesky (talk) 22:09, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
To be fair, I don't think Montana should have mentioned, "I think this is payback...". Because of this, I can see why Samuraiantiqueworld issued their above response. Montana broke the Truce Zone too. The first post by Montana was perfect in these scenarios. Neutral and to the point. Bgwhite (talk) 22:13, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Kinda, but not totally. I wondered, which is why I spent so long looking over contribs etc. I think Montana's comment was actually justified, having looked around a bit; also, people who ask for my input generally like to give me a bit of background, which helps me get some perspective. Remembering just how patient and understanding and encouraging Montana was with me, when I was only half-broke-in, I know it takes quite a lot to get her snitty about something. Pesky (talk) 22:23, 16 March 2012 (UTC) Adding: I have quite a few people who are regulars over here, and quite a few who ask for my input. But when someone I've never "met" before then coincidentally turns up on my talk page within the hour, not even to talk to me (or even acknowledge my presence), I add that into the equation when apportioning this stuff. ;P Pesky (talk) 22:57, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
  • "Remembering just how patient and understanding and encouraging Montana was with me, when I was only half-broke-in", well under those conditions I can understand why you would see Montanabw as a "friend", unfortunately I have not had such a rosy experience, Montanabw has been confrontational with me from the first time I dared to step foot in one of the articles "guarded" by Montanabw. The problem was that I was adding relevant, REFERENCED, valid, information and I would not be bullied and back down from Montanabw's persistent attacks on my edits, experience and character, and unfortunately this attitude has continued into every interaction we have had. I could show you the particular circumstances but that would not matter I think since you admittedly see Montanabw as a friend. You mentioned a "Truce Zone". well as you stated you do not know me but Montanabw does and by bringing this matter to your talk page Montanabw was the one disrespecting your "Truce zone" as Montanabw should have known this would happen, its not the first time by any means, Montanabw has run to other editors and administrators looking for sympathy before, after having confrontations with me, how do you think I knew to look for this comment in the first place, ("I think this is payback...") I know Montanabw would go running to someone crying about being abused, but speaking of guidelines Montanabw knew that once I reverted back to the original article name the matter should have gone to discussion but instead Montanabw chose to revert once again, not a very friendly or respectful thing to do in my opinion. Montanabw lives in a glass house and shouldnt throw stones without expecting to have a few thrown back, sorry for disrupting your talk page, my comments were only directed to Montanabw as a reminder that talk pages are public places and appropriate etiquette should be practiced if you want the same in return,
  • By the way, thanks for your comments on my Wiki commons contributions, I have spent an incredible amount of time and money gathering the information and images used on the Kura (Japanese saddle) article (as well as the other articles I have worked on), as far as I know it is the only one of its kind in the world, bringing together the correct terms, images of Japanese saddles and related items, along with appropriate known references and I want to make sure that this information is made as accessible as possible for anyone who wants information on this subject or for people who never knew about this subject before, this is not a "personal" dispute or I would not have taken the time and effort "reverting" edits which I feel are not appropriate. You can now go back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Samuraiantiqueworld (talk) 06:46, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey, chill! Montana is a highly-experienced editor here. Perhaps some of your references weren't from reliable sources, or something as simple as that?

[Inserting] Please re-read this post to your talk in which Montanabw pointed out, quite clearly, "Your PROPERLY referenced material isn't being removed, it was copyedited. The rest was your wrong placement of links and your constant attempts to keep re-adding a link to a category in commons that was the issue. It's not a source -- read the Wiki MOS on sources, it's quite clear that you don't source wikipedia from other wikis."

Anyway, no personal attacks on my talk page! It's clear that you got here by following Montanabw's contributions around in order to perpetuate an argument. That's heavily frowned upon. The tone of your comments here is orders-of-magnitude worse than Montana's – there's just no comparison. Quite a few other editors have had to talk to you about making personal attacks, you really need to cool it, or someone is going to take this further with something like a request for comment from the community on your conduct, or bringing this up at the admin incidents noticeboard with a possible view to getting you sanctioned for WikiHounding and personal attacks. I seriously recommend you take a short break here, cool down a bit, be very careful not to hound and attack other editors, and so on.

I absolutely loved your Commons contributions; fantastic pictures, and I can quite see that you've put in a huge amount of effort in getting those for us. That's an incredible contribution, and, regardless of anything else, means that you've clearly got good intentions towards the 'pedia, and the quality of our content. I really mean that; I'm impressed. But please be a bit less aggressive, and definitely stop with the name-calling and hounding, OK? Pesky (talk) 07:02, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to add here that, regardless of which editor came to my talk page asking for my input, my response would be exactly the same. This is nothing to do with friendship; I operate from a purely principle-centred standpoint (which is possibly why I get asked for assistance). Pesky (talk) 07:30, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
  • "Quite a few other editors have had to talk to you about making personal attacks", any claims of personal attacks come from disputes between Montanabw and I. There is a difference between edit disputes and "personal attacks", and it is not at all unusual for people to butt heads on Wikipedia. Anyone can yell "personal attack", if I say that someone has an "ownership issue" is that a personal attack? You are also only seeing one side, as many of the ongoing arguments have been archived, as in this one.[Edit warring on image content] And as much as you would like to think that you are unbiased thats quite impossible, only someone completely removed from a situation can be unbiased.Samuraiantiqueworld (talk) 08:21, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Samuraiantiqueworld (talk) 08:21, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Stop hand nuvola.svg
You really have to stop this. I'm quite capable of going through page histories (which I have done, quite extensively) and seeing what's happened there in the past. I'd appreciate it if you didn't inform me that I'm not capable of being unbiased, too – it's hardly a good-faith comment, is it? I'm not relying on anybody else's words when it comes to personal attacks, I have gone through the histories associated, and made my own judgment on the issue. I'm not going to have my talk page turned into your battleground, so I'm afraid at this point that I must ask you not to post on here again. Pesky (talk) 08:48, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey, they sold out!

You never knew Tesco sold these, did you?!

... but they'll probably re-stock soon. Pesky (talk) 20:33, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Pesky, that's effing brilliant. Haploidavey (talk) 00:31, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Greetings and Felicitations!

(This is in response to the following comment, which was placed on my talk page)

I just noticed your comment at AN/I that you have Asberger's; I'm a high-functioning autistic myself, and I personally know quite a few other Wikpedians who inhabit the grey areas of the autism spectrum. (Several of whom stalk my talk!)

You're always welcome to wander over in my direction; we're an odd bunch around my talk page, but a supportive bunch. As well as being an HFA myself, I've also professionally taught Aspies, Auties, a huge range of others (including non-Autie geniuses!), so I'm really happy to help out with any tips or even just moral support you might want from time to time. All the best, Pesky (talk) 23:51, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind invite. I have this page on my watchlist and will be joining in from time to time. More later - just got called to dinner. :) --Guy Macon (talk) 00:11, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
You're very welcome here :o) As it's quarter-past-midnight here in the UK, I'm off to bed in a mo! Pesky (talk) 00:16, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, that didn't work

Sorry to have drawn a certain editor to your user page. You handled it well, though. You see why I needed to stay out, no idea how to handle something like that. Montanabw(talk) 04:52, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey, no probs! It might have worked, after all, and they didn't cause too much hassle, really. It would have been great if I could have halter-trained them and got the to accept treats from the hand, and just join in nicely, but it was beyond my capabilities!

I've asked a totally uninvolved and good-egg admin if they could possibly have a look at the over-all situation (I particularly didn't like the stalking / hounding aspect) and, if they see fit, just have a nice, gentle few words with the editor concerned to try and nip this stuff in the bud before they end up at RfC/U or AN/I; good to stop / de-escalate dramahz before it gets too out of hand, and a fresh pair of eyes with no likelihood of being accused of cliquey affiliations might do the trick. Pesky (talk) 09:49, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Uninvolved / independent input is here, if you want to take a look. Pesky (talk) 08:48, 23 March 2012 (UTC)


Hi Pesky,

You seem to have offered to take him under your wing, so I want to give you a heads up, and you can handle it any way you want to, including ignoring it. I'm not going to post it to his talk page, because I have a feeling it would stir things up, but you're welcome to simply point him to this if you think it useful. Or delete it.

On reflection, I think we admins seriously dropped the ball here, and FLM should have been blocked. This is not an otherwise good content creator with a potty mouth, this is someone who, so far, seems to see everything here as a battle, and is clearly violating NPA. I'm not a civility cop, and the problem is not being cranky or a bit rude, but actively making numerous attacks on others. This was not a rocky start, this was a train wreck, and about 90% due to FLM's attitude, not his newness. I worry that not being blocked sent him the wrong signal. You should be aware that I am not looking for slow steady improvement in his behavior, I am looking for a very, very rapid turnaround in his behavior, with zero personal attacks on other editors going forward, or i will be indef blocking the account.

I appreciate you're trying to salvage something here, and I'm sorry I'm not giving you the breathing room you might like, but the targets of his ire have put up with more than their share already, and they will not be putting up with any more of it.

I haven't forgotten that I owe you a look-see about another issue. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:29, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

I'll have a look ... back soon! Pesky (talk) 15:14, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Back already! He still doesn't appear to have contributed anything since 20:09 on 16 March. I will keep a watch on his contribs (as often as I can check!) and see if he's turned over a new leaf. Is there any way of watchlisting someone's contribs, so I can get a relatively quick heads-up for when he starts contributing again? He may be taking a sensible short break for a few days, to let things simmer down and the dust settle. Pesky (talk) 15:19, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
I didn't mean that something new happened since the last issue died down, I meant that I'd gone back and looked at how that developed, and realized how much he was allowed to get away with. A short break is a great idea if that's what it is. Frank already gave a "final final warning", I'm just noting that that's really what it is, and that informal mentoring (if that's what this is, I don't know) isn't going to protect him from a pretty quick block if things restart. There's no way to watchlist someone's contribs, I think there's some kind of RSS feed thing somewhere, but that's way over my head, technology-wise.

I looked at your other issue a little, at first glance it seems like one of those intractable problems that Wikipedia is truly excellent at generating. I think there are issues from both parties, and some portion of "blame" not necessarily equally distributed. I'm not convinced everyone involved will value my feedback. I'll look at it a little more, but it might be one of those "ignore it and pray it goes away by itself, even though you know in your heart it won't" things. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:28, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

That other thing has no urgency about it at all, and may hopefully have settled down a bit. I've dropped a chunk of granny-spiel onto FLM's talk page, for when he comes back, just so he knows where I stand; I also emailed him some advice that first evening (shortly after posting at AN/I) which I'm hoping he'll follow up on. All we can do is our best; shame the situation was allowed to escalate in the first place as opposed to being nipped in the bud, really! But these things happen. Pesky (talk) 15:45, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
"Malleus has a bit of a reputation for being an evil b*****d, but he's not, really ... just doesn't suffer fools gladly. Or even at all, possibly!" I can be an evil thingumyjig on a bad day, and "even at all" is pretty close to the mark. Malleus Fatuorum 22:59, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Ahhh, but you're not really an evil bastard! You have a great heart, and an excellent mind, and you remind me a bit of an old horse I once knew, who used to flatten his ears, curl his nostrils, grind his teeth, and stamp his feet at people who were twats around him ... but on whose back you could put any toddler with absolute and certain knowledge that he would look after them! Pesky (talk) 07:36, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
And yet another example, this time from Pesky, not Malleus, of a word (like Malleus' infamous use of the "c-word") that you Brits seem to use with no obscenity intended, but in the USA is considered an extreme vulgarity and highly offensive to women (the "t-word", which means the same thing, more or less, as the "c-word"...). Add this to the ever-growing list of words that Brits use that could cause them to be physically attacked if used in the USA --- it was here that I noted the difference in use of the "other f-word" (f-g, in that case)? Please, at least tell me that the famous "f--k-word" is of equal vulgarity on your side of the pond...? Montanabw(talk) 03:20, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
So far as I'm aware "twat" is a synonym for that infamous "c-word", but the fact that Pesky, a female, used it quite casually speaks volumes for the fact that it's not gender-related. As for the "f-word", it's really almost nothing here, just a word that can sometimes be useful as an intensifier. As for words that might cause an American to be attacked her in the UK I'd say that "Have a nice day" would be high on the list. Malleus Fatuorum 03:30, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Yup, twat means just the same thing, as does prat, and fanny (which means arse, I think, in the US. Sorry, that would be "ass", which means idiot or Equinus asinus here in the UK). I think the thing is that we Brits are just much more laid-back about using cusswords – they really don't have the nastiness over here that they do in the US. If a relatively-educated person here in the UK wants to be really, really insulting, we seem to resort to that icily cutting soul-undermining politeness, uttered in a clipped and posh-as-possible voice (the "telephone voice", perhaps), which we would never use to a friend. Apart from Biggles, who almost always says things tersely, and usually while waggling a finger. And yes, it's the morphine again! Pesky (talk) 20:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

It's a strange thing, but I'm much more offended by the sort of snooty faux politeness you get in posh restaurants and the like than any number of cuss words. And for some reason I find being called "Sir" like listening to fingernails being scraped across a blackboard. Malleus Fatuorum 20:16, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Did somebody mention cuss words?! Nortonius (talk) 20:36, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Haha! "And would Sir like Claret or Burgundy with Sir's sirloin?" Malleus, dear heart, just pray to the deity of your choice that you never get knighted ... Pesky (talk) 20:57, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
LOL. True, that when Yanks start using words that refer to the anatomy below the belt associated with genitalia and surrounding concepts, we usually intend a vicious insult. Except "fanny," which is merely a cute archaic colloquialism for the posterior part of said region as well as a woman's name. Ass can be the "fanny" or the equine, as well as an idiot. Much fun had here punning on those terms. (see here) The "t" and "c" words generally refer only to the stuff on the other side of the um "fanny," ... We don't use "prat" at all -- that one's all yours. "Butt" is ambiguous -- not OK in kindergarten or certain white-collar business and social settings, but acceptable elsewhere as a rule. We are also sometimes too dense to pick up on the insults of too-politeness, though the belles of the American South have a particularly-well-developed skill set of backstabbing all while saying superficially nice things that is a true art form. And Malleus, please DO have a nice day!  :-D (Bwahahahaaaa, now I know what really bugs Malleus...) Montanabw(talk) 21:28, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
I will never forget the dogsbody assistant who applied for a job at a company I once worked with. When his application form asked for his previous job title, he put "General ass." And, we discovered to our horror, never was a truer word spoken! (or written, if we're going to be pedantic). Pesky (talk) 21:34, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't know what it's like in the US, but here in the UK we have different nuances on different cusswords which technically mean the same thing. Prat or twat has the nuance of stupid, ridiculous (possibly comically so), whereas cunt very often has nuances of bullying; dickhead is used more often than dick, and has the same kind of nuances as prat and twat, but prick has the same kind of bullying nuance. Pesky (talk) 05:42, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Mediation step two draft

Hi Pesky! Thanks for your input in the mediation - it's always nice to see your comments. :) Now I know that you said you weren't going to submit a draft for step two, but would you be willing to just point me to a version that somebody else drafted, that you think is rather good? I want to do this for the sake of trying to treat everyone equally, and also to satisfy my curiosity about where everyone stands on the issues involved. I'm not cold-hearted enough to make it absolutely mandatory though, so I'll understand if you don't want to, especially with your date coming up. ;) There are a lot of good drafts out there already, both in the mediation archive and in the WT:V archives, so you shouldn't be stuck for choice! You don't have to do it straight away, either - just when you have a spare moment will be fine. And if you have any questions, just let me know. Best — Mr. Stradivarius 15:47, 19 March 2012 (UTC)


I noticed this. It was very kind of you to try to help. Anything you can do to turn this editor around and harness some of that energy towards something good, will be very much appreciated. Thanks for going the extra mile. --John (talk) 22:24, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

No probs! I can sooooo understand how this editor is feeling, without in any way condoning what they've done in the heat of their passion! I felt it has to be worth a try; it can do no harm, and may do some good. Time will tell. Pesky (talk) 22:30, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Salamat hari Ebu

I think of you as 'Ebu', it's a cultural term, in a machine translation it might mean a woman who is the speakers senior, which misses the real meaning of a wise and respected grandmother, but then, some things are lost in translation because the community's pervasive attitude of respect for your elders in one community is bankrupt in another. But if I say 'Ebu Pesky' or 'bu' (pron. Boo) I know you'll understand me.

"No Wikpedian chooses to be blocked; that's a decision which others make for them. And even when consensus says this should be reviewed, or changed, it seems there is nowhere to go; and, not knowing what to do, people just give up trying. They "wander off"."

Yes, but add to that the very many people who watch the highway. They see it is no place to stand and do not venture onto it. Every time I/we/all see a car crash, I/we/all think it is pointless to put in any effort to this project. It is a fair thought. One kumioko incident produces many many casualties and injuries.

I see a path to change, but often I can't say ahead of time what is ahead. People need to be led closer so they will be able to see the idea for themselves, or they will resist going to a place that they'd quite like if they actually got there. So many times, my ideas look a lot like green eggs and ham.

So to go slowly. The tribe sees the lost, and want to speak in support. The lost see the template, and most some see it as more blatant than it is, as a block template speaks with the voice of the wide community.

Should it be made so that it draws back the curtain and people can see the wizard ?

Can I make anims to help your HFA project ? I like anims lately. I can do much better than these just say ideas or words or images or concepts, just the first 10 or 20 silly things that come into your head when I say HFA will do fine. Penyulap 10:01, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

I think sometimes that all we can do is to believe that one day it will work well. If you think about it, Wikipedia is a very new "civilisation" (think of it as an up-and-coming newly-created country, with roots from communities all over the world). It takes a new civilisation, a new community, quite a long time to find its feet and become both honourable and stable. The vast majority of us in here are here to do good; much of the time we'll have very differing ideas both as to what "good" is, and as to how to do it. That's inevitable when we have so many immigrants from so many different cultural backgrounds. And the interesting thing is that very few people are actually wrong. My personal feeling is that only the truly destructive, with no hope of rehabilitation, should be exiled on a permanent basis. People can change; people do change. People (all people) occasionally go off the rails, some much worse than others, for a whole multitude of reasons. But I believe that only something like 3% of people really can't be rehabilitated. And yes, I almost picked that figure off the top of my head, but not quite! Today I have a pre-op assessment, an hour or so's drive away, so my focus is not on the 'pedia just now. When my brain is back on track (may not happen until after the surgery), I shall try to remember to think about what you've asked, in greater depth. Pesky (talk) 10:18, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
It is a coincidence, as I have the same in RL tomorrow, for general aesthetic next week. It only goes so far as a surgeon(s? idk) chopping into me above the neck though, as they aren't after my CPU or LAN. But it is still a bit 'am I meant to be scared, am I supposed to be apprehensive' and I don't know. I think maybe it's better not to think. But yes, your RL first, and read and chat another week. Take care 'Boo. Penyulap 11:23, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
My GA and surgery is scheduled for 27 March, and the surgeon will be chopping into my neck (and probably leaving me with a lovely zigzag scar, Harry Potter style, on the front of my neck!) in order to release some seriously compressed nerve roots. I have FUBAR discs at C4, C5 and C6, which will eventually need to be replaced with artificial ones, but drilling away bits of bone to make room for the nerves is a good enough fix for the time being. Best of luck with your op; there's absolutely no point in being apprehensive about surgery, as worrying about it changes absolutely nothing for the better. I;ve had heaps of surgeries, and try to reduce my "worry time" to about ten seconds in the theatre ante-room, and then get over it by cracking jokes with the theatre team ;P Pesky (talk) 11:39, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
I never even though of that whole 'wheeled into the theater' part with the people all dressed up. I focused on what it would be like to breath in and have the system halt, I never looked about when it happened. My dad says don't let doctors touch me (but not in regards to my upcoming op). He had similar kinds of operations to you, and they are possibly inevitable to fix problems I have, I think I'll go with his advice until I can no longer, I figure what I can tolerate is better than something I might be unable to. I do hope they don't make a mess of the geometry and leave you with more than you can bare. Hmmm, makes me think of the Tron genre, uploading would fix such things.
A Harry Potter cyborg, I'm impressed, some people would be jealous. (I want to make a version of wikipe-tan as a cyborg for bot templates, Japanese style, as more than half of the robots in the universe live there, and they have those ones that look a bit like people now, where the humans they were modeled after get the willies when they see someone kiss their android, argh!) Penyulap 23:50, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Those anims are awesome! I can't easily think of concepts for illustrating the thought-processing differences between Autism-spectrum people and non-auties which would work as anims, though. I find it easy to create parallels like my varying-types-of-colour-blindness one, or the sound one: think of a piece of music with the treble turned right up and the bass very muted, compared with the same piece of music the other way up, if you see what I mean; it's the same piece of music, with all the same tracks, but it sounds completely different. It all depends on which parts of it you pick up on, and which don't really get through. A-spectrum vs. neurotypical thought processing is just like that. Pesky (talk) 05:57, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Those ones are kind of placeholders until I make some nicer, maybe longer ones, and a few extra panels. I am glad you like them, I have made a few for humans too, out of the ones here that I've made I'm happy for now with two or three, but they all still need work.
I can see an idea clearly that would address the multi-faceted nature of text, though I haven't got a nice piece of text in mind. Something with a massive band of wavelengths would be cool, any ideas ? Penyulap
This is why I find the parallels of light and sound so useful; we humans are only consciously aware of a small fraction of the wavelengths, and we each have our own areas of extra-perceptiveness. Infrasound is fascinating stuff ... Pesky (talk) 09:07, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

It's payback time

Gluteal cleft.jpg The Ass Award
I return the favor of your ass with a nice intergluteal cleft. Thank you so much for expanding the zoo on my user page. Drmies (talk) 16:23, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

ROFL! I thought you'd like my cute little ass ;P Pesky (talk) 16:31, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Today's experiment for the easily amused

... brush your teeth with an electric toothbrush, while looking at an LED number display (microwave, cooker, clock radio, etc.) Coolio! Who needs 'shrooms?! Pesky (talk) 23:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Check this out and tell me if it's civil

diff on my talk page Check the "Line 1" modification. The editor knew very well how I'd feel. Goodbye! --"DrYouMe"→"Mrt3366" (Talk?) 05:41, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

My guess is that they just copy-pasted the name in at the top to make sure they had the spelling correct, to use in the message, and forgot to remove it before saving (I've done that myself, several times!) In all cases, no matter how hard it is, we all have to remember to assume good faith and suss out whether there's a perfectly innocent explanation for something. Having said that, the message on the whole was spot-on – we mustn't assume sockpuppetry just because two or more other editors have similar views and interests and are saying the same things.

I'm sure that once you've "found your feet" here you'll get on just fine; being a newbie is very hard, it's a very steep learning curve. But our really passionate newbies (and often those who get into a pickle because of their passion when they're new) often turn out to be our most outstanding editors :D Pesky (talk) 08:36, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia:Requests for comment/NOINDEX

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia:Requests for comment/NOINDEX. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. RFC bot (talk) 14:18, 24 March 2012 (UTC) Done

Everybody laugh at Pesky ...

Mother decided she wanted the pond's waterfall to flow faster. The tap is down on the pump, at the bottom of the pond. So I reached my arm as long as it would go, and then leaned over just a bit more ... and fell in!

An English garden pond is a very cold place in March! Pesky (talk) 14:33, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

I'd love to know more about your setup; we've been wanting to build a little pond in our (big) yard, but the maintenance seems daunting... liners, power washing, blah, blah...I'd love to know a more "organic" (i.e. the way it worked before a lot of modern junk) was to do it --but have the little pump for a waterfall too... Ideas, hints? Montanabw(talk) 21:36, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
We have one of those big preformed solid liners of about 800 gallons capacity, and a FishMate pump and a spider filter (which is a wonderful thing!). I rake settled debris (fallen leaves etc.) off the bottom of the pond occasionally with a softish grass rake, to help keep it clear, which seems to work well. Even without that, they're supposed to be able to go at least three years with a spider filter before you need to clean the pond (and I suspect that with raking fallen leaves out, it may possibly go almost permanently).

Ideally you want to build up a little mini ecosystem in the pond, so a selection of pond plants helps to encourage little mini-beasties in which eat even minier-beasties and algae. Several tench (and no, ours haven't grown to ridiculous sizes!) "hoover up" stuff from the bottom as well; and we have a selection of "decorative" fish. Different types have different food preferences, so if you have quite a few different types, among them all they'll eat a lot of things which would otherwise try to invade and take over. I also have a breeding farm for live fish food (brine shrimp, glassworms, tubifex worms and daphnia), which is basically a big dustbin filled with pond water, with a couple of oxygenating plants, into which I chucked a starter stock of live food. They just breed in there without predators, and I grab a bucketful of that and chuck it in amongst the marginal plants in the pond every couple of days, which adds to the things which eat algae, diatoms etc. And the fish eat them, which is why I breed them in a separate area. Pond snails do help keep algae (blanket weed) off the sides, but they actually prefer to eat the plants which you want to keep!

The only problem we've had was an invasion of blanket weed, but products to zap it aren't expensive, and work well. Pesky (talk) 05:48, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

How are you doing? Recovering from Surgery?? Your pond sounds neat! How old is it, and how deep at the deepest spot? I'm all for doing a mini-ecosystem and using few or no chemicals. Our problem in Montana is the potential for -40 below in the winter (-40 is the same F or C, weird .. but either way, it's COLD!). Lots of the people here want to do stuff that's pretty high maintenance with lots of chemicals (and then they'd do that maintenance -- for a price!). I'd probably start out with feeder goldfish to see if they could survive, as we have raccoons, muskrats and other critters who would just love a daily banquet... Montanabw(talk) 17:57, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
Yes, hope you're doing well. I'm enjoying the pondlife here! —MistyMorn (talk) 18:17, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm recovering, though my soft tissues in my neck are still pretty swollen. The wound on the front, with its row of staples, looks as though they've installed a zip for future use, lol! Our pond is only 3ft deep at the deepest, which works OK for our UK winters but might be too shallow for a Montana winter. A black metal mesh grid (fixed just below the surface level of the water) should keep critters out OK, without interfering much with visibility into the pond. We only had it installed about a year ago. I can never understand why people would want to go for chemical maintenance when the bio system can work so well! Pesky (talk) 08:37, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Extended content

Thought I'd reply here

... as I've made my point over there. Sure, I was mildly baiting MF, but that was in response to him randomly picking a fight with me at ANI - when that discussion was closed, I took it to his page. Without referring to you, it alarms me somewhat that an editor's disgraceful conduct is overlooked because he might be a "nice guy really" or do some good somewhere else. He tells people to eff off, calls people playground names and has been blocked for it over a dozen times. To be roundly criticised by a number of editors who a) had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion in hand, and b) are probably old enough to know better is a rum affair. As I say, no criticism of you, but if someone can't control his own puerile conduct, then he deserves the occasional ribbing at the very least. I'd have to get up very early in the morning to come anywhere near his violations of WP:CIVIL. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:27, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

It takes two to tango. Your behaviour over at Malleus' talk page is highly uncivil, and is deliberate baiting. I read through the ANI section, and noticed that although the ArbCom case was quoted "for the prosecution", it included totalling the list of blocks, despite the fact that the same ArbCom case clearly agreed that a number of those blocks had been undeserved bad blocks. I suggest that you and you co-complainant actually look at some of those blocks; they were for perfectly acceptable behaviours, and considerably less uncivil than the comments thrown about at ANI about MF. Deliberate and willful baiting, for the self-confessed sake of amusement and entertainment, is behaviour unworthy of you. I suggest you let this drop before someone opens up an ANI thread on your deliberate baiting. Pesky (talk) 13:32, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
I take that point, but I do not accept that calling someone out on their uncivil conduct represents similarly uncivil behaviour. I was not aware that some of the blocks were "bad blocks" - point taken, but had there not been so many "good blocks", there wouldn't have been so many bad ones. But the fact remains that Wikipedia seems to tolerate his behaviour where it would not be tolerated from others. The difference between me and MF is that I know what I was doing was pushing the limits, and he does not. My baiting was very mild, it was used to make a serious point, it won't be repeated, and I hold my hands up - and as an admin strangely said, he gave as good as he got. If he were to apologise for telling me to eff off, I would apologise for any offence caused to him. There won't be any ANI thread on my behaviour, I suspect. Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:46, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
I wouldn't be too sure about that. If you keep this sort of nonsense up there most certainly will be, and soon. Malleus Fatuorum 14:15, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
I've quite clearly said that I've made my point. I suggest you move on, or make your ANI thread now. Alternatively you could apologise, and I will do the same. Bretonbanquet (talk) 14:20, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
You're still banging on here, and I really do find your childish excuses for your own poor behaviour to be quite extraordinary. Malleus Fatuorum 14:28, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
I was having a discussion with someone else, if that's OK with you. I do not consider you to be a good arbiter of what constitutes poor behaviour, and I would doubt the judgement of anyone who did. We should not be using a third party's talk page to exchange unpleasantries, so I'll make this my last post here. The offer in my last post still stands. Bretonbanquet (talk) 14:34, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm not interested in your apology, what's done is done. Malleus Fatuorum 14:37, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
Bretonbanquet, if I hadn't been going out, I would have taken it to ANI myself if you hadn't shut up; I'd already started to collect the diffs together on a scratchpad. It's not impossible that I may still do so, if you don't cease and desist immediately. Baiting someone deliberately – with malice aforethought – is a damned sight more uncivil than someone telling you to fuck off from their talk page when you've both called them the names you were spitting out, and invited them to tell you to fuck off. You knew your behaviour was unacceptable even before you started it; you did it on purpose to amuse yourself. And that is this discussion over, here on my page. Pesky (talk) 19:01, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm back

I am still alive ! I woke up hours ago, I'm not entirely happy with the work (I can already tell it's not done properly, because standards here are poor and they wouldn't listen to me). But I am ok ! (alive)

It was weird, I didn't like the tube into the hand. I don't like that at all. They left it there for ages before taking me to the theatre, and I didn't like that at all. They 'snuck' the anesthetic into it I think, but am not sure, because I remember leaving for the theater, but the memory gap begins before arriving in the theatre.

The whole thing was weird, if I can / could choose, I'd not have it in the same country again. But at least 1/2 the operation was completed ? I don't know if I should be happy or grumpy. Maybe 1/2 and 1/2 ? My friend here thinks I am complaining, I don't know. (he didn't have 1/2 an op though) Penyulap 11:04, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey, welcome back! One's first op is a truly weird thing! I've had so many now that I'm pretty much used to it all. Be happy, not grumpy. They usually give you some happy-juice before they get the major anaesthetic into you; the happy juice has very litte effect on me as I'm somewhat conditioned to opiates anyway. It sounds as though you flew through the anaesthetic without complications, which is great news, as it means you're likely to have good results on future ops if needed. The main thing is you;re OK right now, and any future work which needs to be done can be done as and when. The first few days after an op, you can never really tell how it went (it always feels bizarre for a while, as they pull your soft tissues around quite a bit while they're working). Give it a week or so, and you'll probably find you feel much happier with it. Hugz to a fellow post-anaesthesia Wikipedian! Pesky (talk) 11:21, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Ta! and (hugz) as you like them. I do feel very strange. Too much blood and chemicals leaking into my mouth, and it won't stop yet. I think I need to try to sleep it off. It's annoying. Maybe in a few weeks I'll be proper and cheerful. I didn't like it, and I don't like it and I'll never like it I'm sure. If I ever like this sort of thing, then I'd know something is really wrong. I shouldn't talk when I am not feeling well, I don't sound nice. Penyulap 16:45, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Thankfully I've not had many operations that required general anaesthesia, only two that I can remember, but the worst thing I've found is the sore throat after having the tubes rammed down there. The post-anaesthetic phase is great otherwise. Malleus Fatuorum 17:36, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Aww, Penyulap! Never mind if you sound a bit not-quite-nice, we're all a bit "off" after surgery. I'm not saying that (normal!) people get to like surgery, just that it ends up not being so scary, and it's almost always worth it for the results. Hopefully you'll be feeling a lot better soon. @Malleus - yes, post-intubation can be a bit sore, but in my experience they seem to be getting much better at it than they used to be :o) And the lovely constant top-ups of morphine in the recovery room do help. Pesky (talk) 17:43, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
The sore throat thing sucks. Post-anasthesia life is interesting, after my father's second bypass, he must have thought post-surgery was pre-surgery because until all the drugs cleared his brain, he seemed to believe he wouldn't pull through and kept asking forgiveness for the assorted sins and misdemeanors of his youth; over and over again. Some where news to me... =:-O Montanabw(talk) 21:52, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Who knows if it was true, maybe it was all just a drug-induced illusion. Speaking of which, while under the influence of LSD some time in the mid-1970s I found myself under attack from Stuka dive bombers while I was filling up my car at a petrol station. And as if that wasn't bad enough they and some accompanying Messerschmitts strafed me on the road after I'd left. Happy days! Malleus Fatuorum 22:03, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
"We can't stop here. This is bat country." Etc...! ;o) Nortonius (talk) 23:04, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
I was always amused by the "I never inhaled" bollocks when politicians were asked if they'd ever smoked marijuana. I've never inhaled it either, as I used to suffer from asthma and as a result never smoked anything, but I've eaten it many times. I'd have to say it doesn't do much for me though; still looking forward to Pesky's shipment of magic mushrooms. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 23:40, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
I think I was convinced to vote for Obama when I read his book, where he stated, "of course I inhaled. That was the point." In my case, inhalation was primarily second hand, as I was always kind of a nerd and knew it would get worse under chemical influence. Montanabw(talk) 00:01, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
My psychology professor (kind of) encouraged us to try LSD, as a way of understanding what a fragile thing our perception of reality actually is. It's certainly something you'd never forget, but I don't think I'll ever do it again; I learned the lesson. Malleus Fatuorum 00:29, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Let me just add this. There's a guy in my local Asda who used to irritate the Hell of me. Nothing to do with anything he ever said or did, my hackles just rose whenever I saw him. While idly pondering on why someone I'd never even spoken to might get my back up like that I was reminded of my instruction in Transactional Analysis; he reminded me of my father, and I was replaying old scripts. Nothing to do with him at all. Malleus Fatuorum 00:23, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Back at home to lick wounds. I remember they pulled some tube out of my nose (yuk) while I was just waking up. I woke up fighting actually. As soon I was awake i was signing(talking) with one hand before the rest could move, and within a minute or 5 I was pulling out that nasty thing in the back of my hand. It wasn't a needle, there was a long thin tube inside the skin. It was like that movie Aliens it was disgusting to have something inside me like that, I peeled off the tape and pulled it out. it was like an inch long, or maybe my memory distorts the length, but it must have been at least 15mm, and probably a mm wide and yuk. Even though the Aliens in that movie seem worse to you, it doesn't to me, cause the aliens are on tv and that thing was in my hand. Haven't you had nasty parts too Pesky? there has to be some things that make you eewew. but not to think about, I don't like to think of it. I want to go to bed now and sleep I think (soon). Penyulap 11:45, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Penyulap, that's just the little mini-hosepipe (flexible) which they can leave inside a vein for when they want to push more drugs. It's long and flexible so that it can just lie in there without damaging the vein walls (hopefully!), and means they don't have to keep sticking you with needles, because they have an access point already plumbed in. Having the drain removed from my neck was very weird! You have this feeling as though there's some (yes, alien!) wormy thing wriggling around where it has no right to be. Mind you, the dear little soul of a nurse who removed it (and who looked about 13) did the best drain-remove I've ever had done in my life; I told both her and her immediate superior how impressed I was with her. I think the worst drains I ever had were two great big suckers of about 7mm diameter, one each side of my abdomen, which had to stay in for nearly a month, so everywhere I walked I was carrying two gunk-filled little "handbags" around with me. Yuk!

Penyulap, sleep, and sleep, and then sleep more. It's a good thing to do, after anaesthesia. But, between sleeps, get up and move around so you avoid the possibilities of getting clots, and drink as much watery-based drinks as you can bear to pour down your throat. And remember that pain-killers were invented for a reason – in this day and age, there's just no reason to put up with pain when you don't have to. @Malleus, it's not permitted to ship shrooms around the country other than for research purposes, so if you want to sample the local cuisine, you have to pick your own! And then eat them in situ ... Pesky (talk) 07:22, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I know what they were up to with the alien thing, but your other readers might not have. I figured as soon as I woke up that if they wanted to give me any more drugs they could ask or give it to me in pill form, it's safer.
I think it is very important to tell people who are acting in a professional manner that they are professional, right away. I think we share that trait, however I also have the habit of telling people when they are acting in an unprofessional manner, right away, which leads to no end of problems (sigh, don't worry, everyone has told me not to). The pain is no problem, not very much except where the bleeding won't stop around the stitches (nothing to worry about). I am of the school of thought that pain is not meant to be masked because it is valuable as information. So I avoid that sort of thing, and codine is intolerable after a while because I can't tolerate having my head in a daze. I will wait a day or a few days and then cut out the stitch that keeps bleeding so I can heal up properly. Penyulap 10:58, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I did sleep today, during the afternoon, for another reason. When I was waking up, I had dreamt that I was editing, although I can't remember where on wiki. I looked for the mouse, which I was sure was just in my hand. While I was waking up slowly, I thought the mouse was in the bed with me in my hand. It wasn't. That is what really happened. but for a "Mythbusters" version, with something I found, and I edit spaceflight articles mostly, I dreamt that space agencies had sent teams of engineers to my bathroom, and they were assembling a satellite on the bathroom floor, of course satellite are bigger than bathrooms, but this one was scaled down, along with the engineers. The satellite was a blue cylindrical one with deep blue colored solar panels all around it, and it was on the floor amongst the porcelain of the bathroom fittings. The engineers would walk up to it and touch it with probes, they were dressed all in white or all in yellow with facemasks and suits that completely covered their heads. They carried test instruments with long curly cords connecting to the test probes. I like that dream better, because it comes with a real picture complete with miniature engineers. Penyulap 11:22, 31 March 2012 (UTC)


I just looked at aliens film article, bad idea, it scared me a heap as soon as i got down as far as the one on the face and stuff around there. ARGH! Not a good idea. Surgery + things inside your veins + aliens article + mouthful of blood = BAD IDEA!!!!! I goto bed. Penyulap 11:50, 30 March 2012 (UTC)


Hi Pesky, I heard that you recently went through some health related issues - and I wanted to pass along my prayers, and best wishes that everything is working out well. Sending some Gampa hugz, and a few wolfie kisses your way. Hope all is well. — Ched :  ?  12:04, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

[Pesky revels luxuriously in hugz and kissies] Yup, I'm back from surgery! Brain is still a bit post-anaesthesia foggy, but it's incredible to have so much more function already in my left arm, despite the post-op swelling etc.! I'm really pleased with the results, so far, and expect it just to keep on getting better over the next three months or so. Modern surgical technology is a wonderful thing :D Pesky (talk) 12:12, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Good to hear that the surgery has gone well and that you're bouncing back. Best wishes, PamD 13:07, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Pam :o) Pesky (talk) 13:10, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky, if you want a simple project, want to tweak my newest article, cavaletti, maybe add more sources, perhaps propose a DYK hook? Montanabw(talk) 06:54, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Nice little article :D How about "DYK that ... cavaletti are multi-function horse training aids invented by Federico Caprilli over 100 years ago?"

P.S. My good source books are all in storage, but, if I remember, I will have a look around for some more sources. Pesky (talk) 08:32, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer...

...but I am reasonably confident he was just trying to use that as a shield from criticism. Which, IMHO, is fairly reprehensible. Still, I'll keep it in mind if I run into something similar again. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh yes, that was a blatant "here's my excuse, deal with it!" manoeuvre, which is why I answered him (possibly a little tersely!) Being on that scale myself, and having taught a lot of Aspie/Autie spectrum people, I can generally spot when someone's totally genuine or when they're taking the piss! And that was pure piss-taking. On the more serious note, I'm dead happy to be "interpreter" when needed, as I've discovered little keyholes, as it were, to bridging the perception gap, which usually work very well. Hugz ;P

Adding: If he's a "wriggler" who looks for loopholes to do what he wants to do anyway, just don't leave him a millimetre of wriggle-room. Instead of using words like "should", "shouldn't", "best not to", etc., be absolutely uncompromising "do", "don't", "never", etc. Pesky (talk) 07:28, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm slightly familiar with Aspergers issues (some of my kids' friends are on various parts of the spectrum, and we're friends with their parents), but probably to be honest I know just enough to think I know more than I do. I wonder if this is going to be a blue link: WP:ASPIE... Nope, guess not. Someone who does know what they're talking about (hint, hint) should think about putting together a page of tips for A/A editors here. Might come in handy. (or if there is such a page, redirect that link to it.) Can't stay online much longer, thanks for offering to help there. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:54, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm fairly happy for my talk page to be the A-Team page, lol! Pesky (talk) 18:51, 31 March 2012 (UTC)


Hey thanks for the reply on my talk page for your comment. I will take them into consideration. Still, I realise that I shouldn't have used my disability as an excuse to get away with what I wanted because It pissed of Floquenbeam, and Strange Passerby at the same time. It was a bit tad far and I apologize for the inconvenience and the disruption caused. I realize that my actions could affect the other people around me. IF you think I am going to use this all the time to get away with what I want, please note that I do all I can to try not to do such a thing. If there's anymore I feel unaware of, can I come and ask you for guidance? If so, Thanks and Happy End of March. :)Soviet King (talk) 10:07, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey, not a problem! Seriously, there are loads of us in here (and several of my talk-page stalkers will grin here, knowing who I mean!) Being on the Aspie/Autie spectrum doesn't have to be a problem, it's just a different way of seeing / hearing the world, and we have to learn our way around it. But we see a lot of stuff which neurotypical people totally miss out on, too, which is often the exact stuff that can make us really good editors. You can always come over here to my talk, the only ground rules I have here are that we're gentle with each other, no battles allowed, just kinda like a support team structure for when people need it. Chin up; it's not as bad as you think, we just need to be that extra bit careful sometimes! Pesky (talk) 10:14, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, really. Much appreciated. I will notify Floquenbeam also that I have talked to you and that I will talk about what terms should I agree to work on. See you around. Soviet King (talk) 10:18, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
If I were you, I'd post an apology and an "I will try to do better!" note onto Floq's talk and onto Strange Passerby's talk as well; just a sort of "Yes, I did wrong, sorry I did that, hope we can all move on OK with each other now" kind of thing. Apologising when we did wrong is always a good thing to do. Pesky (talk) 10:26, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Hey SK, I'm not sure how old you are (and therefore how much experience you have of being A-Spectrum), but I'm a granny, and I have A-Spectrum relatives, and I've also taught A-Spectrum people. I can understand why you flipped there. For us A-Spectrum types, sometimes it just feels as though people are setting out to get at us, or being stupid or blind or stubborn or whatever, and it feels as though they deliberately tried to piss us off. And then, if we're not careful, we "hit back" by doing something to piss them off, as though they'd done it on purpose. (Which they usually didn't!) I've found both online and in Real Life that the best thing to do, when we get all snitty like that and want to lash out, is to take some down-time. Disconnect, walk away, focus on something totally different and soothing. Some of us need a couple of hours; sometimes, if it's really bad, some of us need weeks of downtime. But, if you start to feel snappy, log off for at least several hours; then when you've had a bit of quiet time, if you need some help dealing with something, just ask for the help. If I'm not here on my talk, I expect one of my A-Spectrum stalkers would be able to help you out. Always remember, when you're feeling pissed off, that the chances are that the other person wasn't doing it on purpose, OK? Pesky (talk) 10:45, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

WP:V mediation compromise drafts

Hello Pesky, this is just to let you know that to help find compromise drafts at the verifiability mediation, I would like each mediation participant to submit at least one draft at one work group that includes the best of all the previously submitted drafts of that work group. This will probably make more sense if you look at this section on the mediation page, but if anything is still unclear, just let me know. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius 17:36, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

your implants, hmm, legal or cheating ?

The latest artificial implant technology increases ThatPeskyCommoner's editing stamina and endurance. Additional plating has been installed encapsulating her central nervous system communication pathways. This will lead to significantly increased performance. This surgery is technically legal in ThatPeskyCommoner's jurisdiction.

I made a pic for you pesky. I started off thinking how your mods are sort of like the android technology, and then I came across a texture for an android eye, and added it to another image, but it went off in a totally not you direction, but ok for an actual wikibot. But then I saw this sprightly lass, and thought yep, that's pesky. Unless it's like one of those can't get out of bed feeling too creaky days, then there are other ways to feel. HAHA just kidding. Actually I feel that way about 30 % of days when I walk (but only for a while). But I'm ok. You're ok too I do hope. Penyulap 13:52, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Hahahaaaaaa! That is absolutely brilliant! Thank you so much! I am feeling not too bad, though I woke unable to turn over this morning (other half got morphine for me), as I'd been sleeping in one position for about 16 hours, and been awake for the whole 36 hours before that!

I'm glad you're beginning to feel better. Give it a fortnight or so, and you'll hardly know it was done. Pesky (talk) 06:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm not on pain(mind)killers yet, but I've stated anti inflammatory med and anti biotics. Penyulap
If you can tolerate anti-inflammatory medications, they will do you a heap of good. Inflammation both causes pain and can interfere with healing, so knocking that on the head serves more than one purpose. I have to rely on pain-killers for the most part as there's only one NSAID that I can tolerate, and I'm already maxed-out on the dosage of it! Hugz; keep improving! You'll end up just fine. Remember to get plenty of fresh air, fresh fruit and veg, and loads and loads of water-based fluids. These things will all help healing to go faster. Herbal teas with echinacea are particularly good for boosting your immune system to ward off infections in the op site, and chamomile herb teas are also a bit anti-inflammatory, and will help your sleeping. Add honey to them; honey is one of those "magic" foodstuffs whose properties are still being discovered. Pesky (talk) 07:20, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Out of that lot I can manage honey and water, that's about all. Plus, I did honey, and even after my mouth had cleared there'd be some sweet taste now and then even after my mouth was empty, suggesting one hole is rather deep and not good, it stretches quite a ways. A different one reached my eye socket I think before. But it should all be well, I try not to eat in a way that will enter the wounds I think. But I should be ok (fingers crossed), and you should keep recharging.(I change the pic, so you have two, to indicate mood) Penyulap
You can almost certainly buy herbal teas on eBay. They're cheap, they ship / post well, and should arrive very quickly. Trust me, it's worth it! Pesky (talk) 07:52, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm not on speaking terms with paypal and fleabay at the moment. I can, but I choose not to, at one point I think I tried to sign in and it said something about the IP I was using at the time and wouldn't let me, so I haven't bothered trying to spend since, as it was the last straw after the whole ANTI-human rights stance they took. I think I recall there was a picture of a burning child which stopped the Vietnam war. The information that wikileaks publishes can easily stop millions of people getting killed. Paypal took a stance that was blatantly against humanity, so I'm not interested in them anymore. Not for ages anyhow. But I will look for some tea at the shop I think. Anyhow, why are you still typing, aren't you supposed to be sleeping ? sleep-editing, like sleepwalking. Penyulap 08:23, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
No, I need to be moving around now, having slept in one position for so long! We're just about to go off and collect a load of stuff which we bought at a farm auction on Friday, so I'll be afk for a few hours now. The weather is glorious down here this morning; we had a bit of overnight frost, but we have clear blue skies, gentle breeze and bright sunshine now, which we will make the most of :o) Pesky (talk) 08:58, 2 April 2012‎ (UTC)
That will do more than tea can ever do ! you're charging faster now ! I am eating something green now. Penyulap 09:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────A caterpillar? Pesky (talk) 17:38, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Eating hurts a bit, and might cause more swelling.
Happy smiley face.png Ha! I am not eating a caterpillar. But oh Pesky, and your entourage too, let's find and film an inch-worm !! That would make a nice addition. It could climb all over wikipedia ! ( a better mascot maybe as some people think wikipe-tan is creepy, but the majority of humanity thinks that a creepy centipede is creepy, it's hardwired into our brains ), Inchworms are quite cute, or not. Are you scared of creepy crawly things ? Penyulap 01:14, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Creepy crawly things, on the whole, don't scare me. I don't like big spiders, but I'm not actually scared of them, as such. I'm a bit allergic to wasp stings, so I try to avoid them where I can. I'd be very wary of seriously venomous snakes, for obvious reasons, though our British adders don't worry me at all (I've been bitten three times, and it's never been much of a problem!) We have them on our ponies' field, and of course there are plenty out on the Forest. I have a pet eight-foot boa constrictor - so clearly large (non-venomous) snakes don't scare me either – though obviously one has to be careful around them. Never handle them without another person around in case of emergencies, kinda thing. Cuddles is, for the most part, pretty chilled out, though she does sometimes have a few "behavioural issues", lol! Pesky (talk) 08:39, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

WP:V mediation step five

Hello Pesky, this is another update about the verifiability mediation. We have now started step five, in which we will work towards deciding a final draft for each work group. I would like you to submit a statement about this - have a look at the mediation page to see the details of what you should include. The deadline for this step is 10.00 am on Friday 6th April (UTC), and unlike the other steps I am going to be strict about it. If you don't leave a statement by the deadline, then you won't be able to participate in steps six or seven. If you think you are going to be late turning in your statement, please let me know as soon as possible - I can't promise anything, but it will be much easier to work out alternative arrangements now than it would be after the deadline has passed. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius 17:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

A big NPT update

Hey! Big update on what the developers have been working on, and what is coming up:


  • Fixes for the "moved pages do not show up in Special:NewPages" and "pages created from redirects do not show up in Special:NewPages" bugs have been completed and signed off on. Unfortunately we won't be able to integrate them into the existing version, but they will be worked into the Page Triage interface.
  • Coding has been completed on three elements; the API for displaying metadata about the article in the "list view", the ability to keep the "patrol" button visible if you edit an article before patrolling it, and the automatic removal of deleted pages from the queue. All three are awaiting testing but otherwise complete.

All other elements are either undergoing research, or about to have development started. I appreciate this sounds like we've not got through much work, and truthfully we're a bit disappointed with it as well; we thought we'd be going at a faster pace :(. Unfortunately there seems to be some 24-72 hour bug sweeping the San Francisco office at the moment, and at one time or another we've had several devs out of it. It's kind of messed with workflow.

Stuff to look at

We've got a pair of new mockups to comment on that deal with the filtering mechanism; this is a slightly updated mockup of the list view, and this is what the filtering tab is going to look like. All thoughts, comments and suggestions welcome on the NPT talkpage :). I'd also like to thank the people who came to our last two office hours sessions; the logs will be shortly available here.

I've also just heard that the first functional prototype for enwiki will be deployed mid-April! Really, really stoked to see this happening :). We're finding out if we can stick something up a bit sooner on or something.

I appreciate there may be questions or suggestions where I've said "I'll find out and get back to you" and then, uh. not ;p. I sincerely apologise for that: things have been a bit hectic at this end over the last few weeks. But if you've got anything I've missed, drop me a line and I'll deal with it! Further questions or issues to the usual address. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:06, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Whoooo-hoooo! I'm actually looking forward to getting back into it, lol! Pesky (talk) 07:48, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

aaaarrrrgh! argh, argh, argh!

3: latissimus dorsi
7: supraspinatus
8: infraspinatus

So, motor function is back to all those muscles which had mega-reduced nerve input before the op. And, of course, since they haven't been working properly for months and months, they are all grossly unfit and soft. And I can't switch off the nerve supply to rest them!

So, my supraspinatus, infraspinatus, rhomboid, trapezius and part of the latissimus dorsi muscles have been merrily working away, non-stop, and now they are on fire and swelling up, just as you'd expect unfit muscles to be when you suddenly start remorselessly working them, non-stop! Arrrrrrrrggghhhhhhhh! Serious muscle pains! Pesky (talk) 07:57, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Oh no, poor Pesky! *biggest ever hug* OohBunnies! Leave a message :) 08:16, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Super owch, things do go downhill fast when you can't use it. I know where you're at. Take a bubble bath. It may or may not help, but either way it'll feel nice and you have an excuse so no-one can mess with the idea. On the scale of good advice from bubble bath to get out there and mow your neighbors lawn, I'd think it's a reasonably good idea. Penyulap
I've had the staples taken out of the wound this morning; another two days and I'll be allowed to have that bubble bath! Can't wait! Just had a call from the local police to say that someone's cut the fence down on our field and two of the ponies got out, so Other Half has zoomed off with the fencing material to repair the fence. That really annoys me! All people have to do, if they want to walk on the field (which we allow, for those who are well-behaved), is to walk around the corner and use the damned pedestrian, horse-proof gate which we put there especially for them, but no, they decide they want access closer to their favourite route instead ... people make me spit, sometimes! Pesky (talk) 09:26, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Take a soft hug, please! What can I say, looking at the pictures and trying to imagine how it hurts? Another image for you, with passion, nominated for the Main Page on Good Friday, - still in the process of improving the article, see my talk, Passion, comments welcome, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:49, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Megahugz! [being careful not to hurt] About the fence, honestly, WTF?! Nortonius (talk) 10:49, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the huggies! Hugs always appreciated over this way, lol! (Nice careful muscle-massages also welcome ;P) @Gerda: lovely pic; what a nice idea to have that DYK for Good Friday. It's a beautiful piece of music, that. I'm zapping the muscles with Powergel (Ketoprofen gel), the usual painkillers, and massage. Eventually they will settle down, it's just the process of them fittening-up again, which is transitory. Other Half has done a good-enough-for-now fix on the fence; it still needs finishing off, but it will do for the time being. It's the kids who live in that little road who are the problem – it doesn't seem to occur to them that if they can walk through, then so can the ponies! I think we'll have to resort to putting a kiddie-sized hole-type stile into the fence there so they have no reason to wreck it; apparently some of them "aren't allowed" to walk around to the gate. Can't think why, the roads there are quiet, narrow little residential lanes, it's not as if there's dangerous traffic on them! Pesky (talk) 12:18, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
We sang it in 1998, 2009 and 2010, the second time a crop of that picture was the poster. Dr. Blofeld just helped me to fill three red links for the poets. I read "Mir hat die Welt trüglich gericht't" (The world has judged me deceitfully), - that rang a bell again, liberty bell, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:37, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
I miss singing! I used to do an awful lot of vocal and choral work, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I remember the Ernest Read concerts with a great deal of affection; we did one once, in London, with a choir of over 2000 people, singing The Messiah. Incredible stuff. Pesky (talk) 13:17, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
He was despised, Andreas Scholl sang it for us last year, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:22, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
I miss singing, I built a professional career around singing actually. It's true, I made a lot of money. I don't do it these days of course, they have those new chemicals that stay for months after you spray, whereas my voice only killed cockroaches and spiders and things on the day I sang, after I got paid and left, the home would again fill with pests. Now days pest control is all done with chemicals I'm afraid. Penyulap 15:00, 4 April 2012 (UTC)


That's what I came for, about the UBX 4 HFA which is DOA ATM. I had been thinking to have a short sentence where words switched with synonym or pictures, the way a Rubik's Cube changes on it's face. So the same sentence presents the multitude. That was the idea, but I can't think of any decent sentences for it. I got excited when I saw that 3 people have chosen to use my ubx's. even though I hadn't really finished PenTrain properly at all, and though I better get to work, but the HFA I thought I better ask for help with on the ideas, as I was going nowhere. Penyulap 15:17, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

If you want some concepts for HFA, you could switch from one phrase to another, using something like "Same tracks, different mix" , "Same shapes, different colours", "Just hardwired another way", "Better at some things and worse at others". I can't immediately think of a suitable sentence, just switching words. Pesky (talk) 17:44, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Draft 0 of group 4

Hi! What didn't you like about Draft 0 of group 4? Regards, --Bob K31416 (talk) 21:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi there; the only thing I really though it could do with a bit more depth / emphasis on was the way in which the core content policues work together (even putting that bit into a sub-heading might have been enough), and the "perceived truth and personal experience" not being a substitute for verifiability. It was succinct and concise (and well worded), I just felt it didn't quite have the weight it could do with, to deal with editors who get piggy about wanting their favourite stuff in. Pesky (talk) 08:55, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. Regards, --Bob K31416 (talk) 11:01, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Years of Red Dust

Hi! I notice you added a notability concern tag to Years of Red Dust. The good news is I found that the New York Times book review wrote about this book. Want me to find more reviews? WhisperToMe (talk) 07:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Not personally, though obviously everything you can add in the way of independent sources is always good (so long as you don't ref-bomb it beyond what is reasonable!) Within reason, the better something is referenced, in quality and quantity of sources, the better. Just add them in. Pesky (talk) 08:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Dispute resolution survey

Peace dove.svg

Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite

Hello ThatPeskyCommoner. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released.

Please click HERE to participate.
Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts.

You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang DR goes to Wikimania! 11:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


A barnstar for you

Modest Barnstar.png The Modest Barnstar
In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! (talk) 13:49, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Haha! I've done so little work recently that I feel like a fraud with this on my page! Thanks, anyway! Pesky (talk) 17:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I would like to present you with something more appropriate

Just 4 Barnstars rotating.gif The Very Modest Barnstar
In recognition of the little things that you do. Penyulap

But I can't tell you which one is for what, because the little things that you do mean so much to me. They all seem so big to me! Penyulap

Awwwww, how cute is that? I assume it's one of your own creations :o) Pesky (talk) 12:27, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
The assembly, wording and sentiments. I didn't make the barnstars, but I assembled 4 of them into a single anim, I was trying to do this:
Visgal backgrnd.png
Just 4 Barnstars rotating.gif

It left the Just 4 Barnstars rotating.gif cute Just 4 Barnstars rotating.gif little barnstars in my Just 4 Barnstars rotating.gifmindJust 4 Barnstars rotating.gif. So it was a perfect fit to my vocabulary to say what I wanted to say.

Japanese Chin - with tongue and teeth.JPG
Just 4 Barnstars rotating.gif

It was on the tip of my tongue.

but it turned out that I couldn't do that big image within my attention span so I adjusted my aim to do a faster compound image instead. That worked out to illustrate the same idea I wanted to say, it also left the barnstars on the loose. I still haven't brushed up on how to do the text all around the pics, not priority. Penyulap

The four little twinkly stars are just really cute; I like them better than the big image. May I borrow them sometimes, for people? Pesky (talk) 17:13, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
No. (gotcha)Penyulap
You should definitely give them out. Penyulap
Extended content

I haz a new essay!

Read it at WP:AUTIE! Nice, kind, constructive comments welcome. The other sort probably not so much. Pesky (talk) 07:59, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

This HFA is too lazy to make an anim right now
Now that is more what I call priority, I've had an easier time of it with that idea after I scanned the essay. I think a nice slideshow with the well known people would be the go to paint the picture. I was thinking for nice well rounded concepts like music, sculpture, science, paint, poet, like that. I am thinking tesla, socrates, vincent van gogh, newton, darwin, asimov, howard hughes, andy warhol, maybe michelangelo ?
I think John Nash is a good inclusion, he was the subject of a film called "a Beautiful Mind" he computed and projected what people would do and how people would act in given situations, like me. Who are your favourites ? and will rain man be controversial ? Penyulap
I don't have any favourites! IRL, I don;t care what labels people have; I take them as they are. I do find it sometimes helpful to know if someone's A-spectrum, because then I tend to assume they're in switched-out mode rather than deliberately standing aloof and ignoring me! (I used to get into such trouble for "rudely" ignoring someone, when I was so busy on another planet that I hadn't actually even noticed them ... and then when I did, the moment they left off talking to me to talk to someone else, I was switched back out again ...) Pesky (talk) 17:18, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Maybe you were mis-diagnosed by someone who couldn't spell 'academic' while 'student' was escaping their mind. I don't think anyone pays attention at school. Actually I have a friend who gets upset on the phone if they don't get my completely undivided attention. If they can hear the tv it's your a cheating lover time. Or eating, or anything at all. Penyulap
I wasn't diagnosed at all, as a child! Not that it would have probably made much difference-for-the-good, in those days. I think schools are a bit more enlightened now, on the whole. Pesky (talk) 21:01, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
I was joking in the section above. You're too easy. :) Today school is different in the west, everyone is mass diagnosed with Attention deficit hyperactive disorder whether they have been examined or not. I think it's rare to get good medical care at any age. I think even with good medical care it would be hard to spot you sitting at the school desk dreaming away. I suspect they'd diagnose you with a most popular disorder called smack-deficit disorder, I suffered from it, and I still do.

The rest I never care about as I'm in awesome company so who cares. Penyulap

I went to the sort of school where they expected you to do three to four hours of homework every evening! I only did the bits I liked, and I did those for fun. I honestly couldn't see the point of wasting precious time (and time is precious, you just can't make there be more than 24 hours in each day) in "proving" that I remembered what I'd absorbed with half an ear on the lessons during the day. My feeling was, "If I know I know it, why use up all my free time just to satisfy someone else?" I couldn't understand, for the life of me, why other people had such trouble remembering stuff. I should have noticed what you were doing, just up above – my excuse (for this evening) is that I;m full of morphine again (having been digging a trench for a gravel-retaining board in the garden this afternoon ... taking it easy, lol!) I think the only purpose for diagnostic labels is as a kind of shorthand information on how best to deal with someone, communicate with them, interact with them. But they so often get used as an excuse for other people not to put in the effort to learn what makes someone tick, and put themselves out a bit to make a relationship (whether it's teacher-student, parent-child, whatever) work. Online, I don't think most people would know I was autie if I didn;t say (apart from the occasional needing things to be re-explained a different way, and the odd misunderstanding of ambiguities). It's much more obvious IRL. I don't like parties unless I can lurk in the kitchen doing the washing up, and then the only people I have to interact with are the ones who really want to come and talk to me, etc. And I'm quite sound-sensitive (and I still find it really hard not to put my hands over my ears if I think someone's going to be mad at me). A lot of social situations are just waaaaay too much; but I can happily spend weeks with just animals for company, and wildernessy places to walk in and sit in (or ride in). I hate doctors' waiting rooms – the chairs are always too close together, and I find that very oppressive. Pesky (talk) 21:42, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Heheh, just like me, rip the cast off, pull out the IV, cut out the stitches, go digging in the garden. sigh, will we ever take it easy ? Actually, I do nothing all day long so what am I talking about.I woke up with an idea in my mind, it popped in there just as my mind was crossing from sleep into being awake, as the anim descriptions say. Here is one of the infinite versions of PenLifts. Then I did 'sister wikipetan' for some preacher guy I think. It's on my talkpage. I should do like you do and go outside, but I guess as days go indoors, it was an ok one. Penyulap
Hey, cool anims! You really should get outdoors; fresh air and daylight speed the healing processes. I'm not quite just like you, though – when I have a cast, and I need to go somewhere damp, I just cover it in a plastic bag! As for stitches, I leave 'em until I'm healed (partly because I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, so my skin takes longer to heal up than the average person's skin does, and if stitches / staples come out too early, the wound will just open up again ... eeeewwwwww .....). Always good to leave IV lines in until you're cleared to remove them, because otherwise, if they need access again, they have to get another line in, which is more painful than leaving in the one which is already there! But getting out and about, and doing what you can (and not pushing it too much), promotes healing and stops you needing so much physio, etc.

I really mean the t hing about doctors' waiting rooms, and trains, buses, cinemas, theatres etc. are all the same, too. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable and edgy and irritable, being forced to sit side-by-side, within elbow-distance, with total strangers. And in rows where other people are far too close to my back (I hate it when people come too close to my back). Is it the same for you? Pesky (talk) 06:02, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't really like to talk here about the social stuff, maybe email. But hospitals ? OMG. Disease collections, got a disease ? bring it to our collection where our helpful staff will help exchange and propagate it, find new and interesting infections you just can't get at home, come one, come all, we have something for everyone. Something seasonal and exotic for that special occasion.
I put another one here scroll down to the bottom, where you see the train and the one that may look blank :) Penyulap
Offterdinger Rotkappchen (2).jpg

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Brilliant! Hey, but you forgot one thing ..... when your train is going from right to left, your name is back to front on it! You need to edit those few frames so it's the right way around :o) Pesky (talk) 20:35, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

NO WAY !!! you can see that ?????? What great eyes you have. I am really surprised that you spotted that. hehe I won't ask if you can see it anywhere else, that would have to hurt your brain to look through them. But you can see it ? like clear at all ? readable ? really ? Wah ! Penyulap
Ha! I can actually see it too if I turn up the magnification on the browser, I should try to get a bigger monitor or something, I wonder what else I am missing out on. Penyulap
Hehehe! "Seeing things" is something I've always been good at. And I don't mean the hallucinatory sort! I think most people probably wouldn't see it, so there's no mad rush to change it. Pesky (talk) 22:02, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. RFC bot (talk) 15:18, 8 April 2012 (UTC)  Done

A train for you, if you get the message on this one.

You saw the message written on the fast train, well the message with this train is quite different, but you have to have good internet I think or it is a bit jerky and won't display correct, I'm not too sure.

  • Don't look at it if you are tired or Zonked out on drugs, leave it till later ok ? I mean it.

I put it on a separate page, because I noticed before when I was doing some machinima for someone's userbox that long videos choke the user talkpages. But you can have a small especially made train, like the little steam train, if you get the message on this one. But if you do, you can't post it anywhere, don't write it down ok ? Anyone can join in too, if they get the message, and are sure (you'll know) you cannot say, but it's ok to email me and I'll tell you if you are correct, but only if you're not sure. I'll award little trains for anyone who can tell me they know AND keep the secret, on their honor, ok ?

Remember, only if you are feeling well. ok ? This is the page.

  • If you have to start over for any reason, you have to hold the shift key down and click refresh. Penyulap
It's not loading correctly, but I looked at its ingredients (hehe! is that cheating?) You are very clever; immensely clever. Hey, but I noticed something else! The wheels don't actually turn ... rofl! That's not what you intended I should notice, though, I know! I love the train. I think it should have a buffet car, so I can treat you to lunch! Pesky (talk) 09:06, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the compliments, I'm sorry that there are limits to the 'wiks software and the internet. Yes that was cheating, but you can't be blamed as it didn't work for you, I wonder if it works for places with really good internet.
The wheels don't need to turn except for Grannies with big eyes. :) A good artist knows that people generally stand back a little from the painting :) but that's good too.
I think from what you do know I meant, and what message it wasn't, that obviously you know the message, so if you like I can award a train with a buffet car, what kind would you like ? Want to sit in the stationary steam train so that the Tea doesn't spill ? but the engine can still run, if the wind is ok. You could give it to people, like, "Pesky treated this user to lunch in the dining car." like that, a personal ubx. Penyulap
As for people standing back from the painting, I can see a chaffinch in a tree 50 yards away! I have a real soft spot for steam trains :o) How about a steam train whose wheels turn (and the big pistons driving the engine wheels also move), and where a background of trees and telegraph poles move past behind it ... so that the train appears to be moving, but we can always see the buffet car (which has "Free Food Buffet" on the side)? And can the smoke drift backwards from the smoke-stack, as well? And am I waaaay too demanding? ;P (>**)><(**<) Hugz! Pesky (talk) 11:26, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes, but no guts no glory. If it is in two shots that switch back and forth that is cool, I can animate the steamtrain wheels and maybe a funnel with the smoke and so forth, and then switch to a shot of the buffet car (wheels not moving), so the short film has 2 or 3 shots that repeat. When there is more footage, like canoe's film in my talkpage archive, then it sucks up a LOT of space, and would load up anyones talkpage loadtime. Moving backgrounds sort of do that a lot. but I can play technical tricks on this one that make it work better and load better, especially if it's a two shots kind of thing. (or maybe three later) Penyulap

Baiting and blocks

I noticed your comment elsewhere on baiting and blocks. I don't want to comment there, as there are more than enough people getting worked up over that matter, but one of the reasons blocks aren't usually issued for baiting is that it is something seen in the eye of the beholder. What is baiting to one person will be robust discourse to another person. I personally would be very wary of any definition of baiting that didn't take this into account. A common pattern is for two editors to have an argument, and when one editor doesn't like what is being said, they get upset. Then others arrive and accuse the other editor of baiting the first one because that editor has got upset. Especially if a block has resulted, the 'etiquette' seems to be that rather than try and talk it out and sort out differences, the editor accused of baiting has to stay well away (because if they dare try and say anything even if trying to apologise or correct something or respond to an unfair allegation against them, they will be accused of yet more baiting, so they can't win either way), and the blocked editor is left with only a self-reinforcing group of sympathisers who spend time commiserating with them. My view is that too many people descending on a situation like that just makes things worse and all perspective is lost. Far better to limit the discussion to a few people and let them try and sort out their differences. Doing that in a crowd of other comments is almost impossible. This is one of the reasons why ANI threads often fail to reach resolution, and it is also a reason why user talk pages that are heavily watched by those sympathetic to that user can act like echo chambers. It can be very intimidating to want to say something contrary to the prevailing mood, but knowing that all the others posting there will in all likelihood just shout you down. Which goes back again to my view that user talk pages should be for brief messages and small discussions only, not big group discussions. Carcharoth (talk) 14:50, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I obviously wasn't clear enough in what I meant! I only meant what would be considered by any reasonably intelligent person, assuming good faith, to be baiting. And things along the lines of comparing an editor to a naughty and thoughtless brat, knowing that that editor is likely to get hammered if they become (quite reasonably) irritated by that, I consider to be relatively obvious baiting. Maybe I'm wrong on that, it's just how it seems to me. Pesky (talk) 16:01, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
It is rarely obvious though. I don't think it was in this case, for example. Arguably, some of those accused of baiting are in fact victims of baiting themselves. They are baited to go over a line and say something and someone then accuses them of baiting. Not so simple, is it? The other thing is that you can't have something that depends on the temperament of the person least likely to keep their cool. Things have been said to me that could be called baiting, but because I rarely take the bait, it doesn't get called out as such. Being able to say "no, you are taking this discussion in the wrong direction, we were talking about article X, now let's get back to that instead of throwing insults around", can be useful sometimes. Carcharoth (talk) 17:26, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Yup; I've been accused of baiting, myself. But I'm sure you can see that there is an inherent problem in setting any editor up as a target, and where baiting is really clear (and sometimes it's abundantly clear), no matter how merciful I usually am, I feel that it should be dealt with much more firmly than it usually is. Pesky (talk) 18:18, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
It was not really clear. The so-called "baiting" was a more than reasonable reply (read it!) to the equally wild metaphor of ritual slaughter. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:34, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

User_talk:Courcelles recall

Hello. User:BarkingFish has backed out of the recall as the initiator and asked that someone else fill his position. Could you please consider taking the role as the initiator rather than a certifier? I am not even sure a new initiator is needed at the moment, but if a recall were to progress it would probably be less controversial if there were someone in that role.--v/r - TP 20:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Oooh, eeeek! I felt really dreadful even feeling it was the right thing to do to certify ... I've always had a vast amount of respect (and affection) for Courcelles, and (if he cares) he must already be feeling that I've dropped a five-ton heap of bricks on him :o( If nobody else would do it, and it were absolutely necessary, then I would, but I would feel really uncomfortable if were "mine", as it were. And I'm probably already in the unique position of having both a Civility Police label and an Incivility Enabler label around my neck (which takes some doing!). Pesky (talk) 20:59, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Well you do rather involve yourself in drama with a passion, don't you? With both Malleus and KW as mentees, I don't imagine it being easy. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:17, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
I don't think of them as mentees, I just think sometimes I might be able to bridge a few gaps here and there. I could be wrong, but permit me my illusions ... I actually hate dramah, but I hate even worse to see people suffer unjustly and / or unnecessarily. Sometimes one just can't win, which is when I get really torn. It would be so much easier just to sit and watch, and not try and do anything, but that would also feel cowardly. Maybe I should be a coward more often. Pesky (talk) 21:29, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
I do think you made a mistake this time. Being afraid to be thought of as being afraid, is perhaps a sign that the sensible side of you knows that you do not need to jump in with both feet. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:32, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Ah, Jeeze ... I don't actually worry much whether other people think of me as a coward, or as being afraid. It's when something affects how I think of myself that it gets to me. I'm the only person that I absolutely have to live with for the rest of my life. Pesky (talk) 09:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

On the question of mentoring, I really wonder if something has been missed here. Blocks of Malleus, and (to a much more limited extent) blocks of KW, are instantly taken from "someone chooses to block" to "OMG someone will now de-admin themselves to remove the block", or at least some similar huge fuss and lack of consensus. With other editors who display similar lack of maturity or potty-mouth syndrome, a whole flock of people appear, helpfully suggesting that the block should be lifted without (m)any conditions other than an agreement to mentoring from an experienced editor, and the block is soon lifted with consensus and happy twittering.

But when it's Malleus or KW who get blocked, this option is off the cards? I think both or either of them could learn a lot from being mentored by a calmer editor, for example Worm, who is already recognised and applauded for his work in dealing with editors who are constructive and have good faith, but lack maturity and the ability to contribute collaboratively. He might be able to work wonders - assuming he has time! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:10, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

I think we all know that suggesting mentoring to someone who has been around as long as Malleus would never come across as anything other than patronising. I can't assume as much for KW, but I really can't see him reacting to that suggestion positively either. It's not been suggested for a reason. OohBunnies! Leave a message 22:12, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Also your implication that Malleus cannot work collaboratively isn't exactly founded in fact. Sure, he clashes, but he can collaborate like nobody's business - including with people he's fallen out with in the past. Calling user's maturity into question isn't great form either. OohBunnies! Leave a message 22:16, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
I haven't called his maturity into question. In his scrabbling for hats, he twice applied for adminship on the English Wikipedia. On both occasions, the community felt that he lacked the maturity to carry out that role. Where next? Mentoring might help. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:26, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
I reiterate: It would be seen as insulting to offer mentorship to someone that has been around as long as Malleus, and contributed so much. Also, having read his past RFAs, the problem was not maturity, the responses seemed to be along the lines of not having the right temperance. Although if you feel that this a good idea, why don't you suggest it on his talk, rather than here? OohBunnies! Leave a message 22:31, 9 April 2012 (UTC) Also, "scrabbling for hats"? Both times he was nominated by respected users. It's not as if he has acted like he was desperate for some user rights.
Well, quite, why does he apply for adminship twice before deciding that he refuses any user rights? It would be amusing if it wasn't so sad. I do feel badly for him, that's why I hoped that a more structured program might be able to help him. Thus far, he has responded well to Pesky's attempts to talk with him.
As far as mentorship is concerned, so he's too important to need to listen to someone else? I don't see that ending well; and thus far, it hasn't. I've read his two RfAs, and lack of maturity was mentioned repeatedly in the Oppose column. I was just offering an alternative way forward. If the same treatment as is given to other editors who act in an immature way and can't resist pottymouth behaviour is something that he can't cope with, then there may be no way of helping him. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:39, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

{(talk page stalker):::::Probably one of the most incendiary and, with all due respect, inane suggestions I have seen in a long time. For one thing, he is old enough to be one of Pesky's grandchildren's grandfather. I think you need to read a lot more of the background - several years - before throwing suggestions of lack or maturity and mentoring around. Just saying. Leaky Caldron 22:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Her grandchildren's grandfather? You're a lot of fun.
I judge people by their behaviour, not by whose grandfather they are. Immature behaviour? Then there are some ways of dealing with it. Pesky knows a few. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:46, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
In which case I suggest you leave it to her. Leaky Caldron 22:50, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps you could save the judging for a while and remember that you are dealing with grown, hardworking people who work on the same project as you - not patients or toddlers. OohBunnies! Leave a message 22:50, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for your suggestion! I will indeed leave it to her, but I also augment her approach to it by making suggestions that have worked well with other editors that have exhibited pottymouth and immature behaviour.
I remind you that neither Malleus nor KW are her mentees - yet.
Hi, Bunnyperson - I have no idea which of you is grown or a patient or a toddler or anything else - please respect everyone equally according to their contributions. Pesky is a patient rather often, and would like all our support in that. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:56, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, but I'm really not quite sure how you manage to make all your messages sound so snide and condescending. Either way, if you think Malleus should be mentored, surely you should suggest it to him first, because he might not see it here. OohBunnies! Leave a message 22:59, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
He watchlists this page. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:02, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
True, but he might not be checking his watchlist at the moment as he's left for now. OohBunnies! Leave a message 23:04, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Oh, you don't think that's part of the drama drama drama game? You don't think he will be back really soon? Just like last time? And the time before? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:08, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
I did say "for now". I can't predict someone's behaviour, he may come back, but for all I know he may not. I wouldn't be surprised if he's staying away from his computer for a time though, as I gather things like this are generally stressful. *shrug*. OohBunnies! Leave a message 23:15, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
That's probably a good idea. We're all here to help him out once he's ready to try the water again. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Hey, everyone, group hug? I can see why each of you is getting a bit het-up here, and I think it's probably one of those basic communication-misunderstanding things. I can see why Demi's words might come across as patronising, ill-thought-out, all that stuff, but I can also see through to what is actually meant, with all of you. All of you have the best of intentions in your hearts here, but, among us, we have some alternative-interpretations of some of the nuances of the words. I don't think Demi means the words in quite the way that they've been understood, but I can see that everyone here is meaning good things. The word "immature" gets used an awful lot as a cover-word for concepts that are hard to word really precisely (yes, it's mis-used in that way, but it's mis-used so commonly that its virtually "in common usage" with the other, nebulous, wossname-thingie which needs a different word, which is hard to think of ....)

Please be gentle with each other; you're all good people :o)

I can't think of a word for what it is that I try to do, but "mentor" doesn't quite fit the bill. I think the nearest I can get is just plain, old-fashioned, simple "friend". And sometimes I come across as the most unfriendly, nasty thing there can be. With 'celles, all I think is that he should re-run a re-confirmatory RfA, kinda-thing, possibly. I can't explain exactly why, it's too complex for my morphined brain to put into words. Pesky (talk) 07:09, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Group hugs aren't my style, but I certainly agree with Pesky here, this rhetoric isn't helping anyone. People seem to be talking at cross purposes, which is never useful. I don't mentor content creators, as I am not a natural content creator. I have to work very hard at it, and it usually needs a good copyedit when I'm done. So even if I were not extraordinarily busy, and these editors did actually want my mentorship and 100 other factors lined up, it's not something I'd consider. WormTT · (talk) 09:42, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm not into Real-Life group hugs (way too intense, with people far too close into my personal space who I don't necessarily want to be there). But the "virtual group hug" is more like stepping back, taking a breather, each of us appreciating the good stuff in the others, and sharing a round of drinks. It's a "lack of enmity" thing. Kinda.

If I had explicit permission from both KW and Malleus, I could write something here about the way I see stuff, but I wouldn't do it without that explicit permission. Pesky (talk) 10:05, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

You may write whatever you like, with or without my permission, and I can't see KW being too bothered either. As for Demiurge's mentoring suggestion, well, it's simply beneath contempt as far as I'm concerned. Malleus Fatuorum 15:39, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Right, back to the drawing board we go, then!
Glad you're editing again so soon, Malleus. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:59, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm not editing again, and if you see me editing any article in the future you have my permission to shoot me. I'm simply trying to help prevent what drove me away from driving others away; editors like you. Malleus Fatuorum 01:07, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
That's very sweet of you, although I must say you're not doing very well at it so far. Perhaps it will get easier with practice. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:23, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Demi, big smack! Assume the position; that was unworthy of you. :o( Pesky (talk) 08:36, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Do you really believe that you're continuing hypocritical obnoxiousness is appropriate on this talk page? Malleus Fatuorum 01:26, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Let me remind you that Pesky has labelled this a "mandatory truce zone". If you want fight, and I'm more than ready to fight with you, then let's do it elsewhere. Malleus Fatuorum 01:31, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Malleus is right; no place for battles here. Demi, with even the best of good intentions, you have a tendency to come across as being more confrontational and wossname (can't think of the word) than you probably actually are. (And you're a bit too trigger-happy with the sanrkasm. Hugz; behave!) I can quite see your point that, unusuaqlly, nobody has ever suggested mentoring for KW and Malleus (this is quite correct, nobody has), and to the best of my knowledge nobody ever has. But it's actually not terribly unusual, and various people have hit the nail on the head as to the reason (probable) why nobody has suggested it. It simply would be wholly inappropriate; though I think if MF could actually have been a 100% telepath and read what you were (probably!) trying to say, he maybe wouldn;t have worded is as "beneath contempt". Maybe he would, I don't know – nobody is a 100% telepath in here. If we were, there would never be a misunderstanding on any level.

I don't want anybody to fight here, at all, ever, but I would like people to be able to discuss ideas in an understanding way, trying to see deep into the heart of the person behind the idea, and putting all negative emotions aside for the duration ... fat chance! People are emotional things, and WP editors are passionately emotional people. Could we end this section here ... how I see it (in my own bizarre way, which of course I can't guarantee is right) is below. Pesky (talk) 08:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think it's best to draw it to a close. One thing, though, is that much better than demarcating Wikipedia into places to "fight" and places not to fight, would be not bringing (or encouraging!) the WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality in the first place. That way, everyone (or those that want to) can focus on building an encyclopedia instead. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 08:55, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
I would suggest that the entirety of wikipedia should be a place not to fight, not to make snarky comments and not to act in a battleground manner. In other words, none of the above is helpful. WormTT · (talk) 08:59, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Big waffly essay on how I see it

We all (I think) are born and go through life thinking that what our own mind does is "normal", and therefore everyone else's mind should work in exactly the same way, and be capable of exactly the same things, as ours does / is. Minds are invisible. Bodies are different; we can all see that bodies are different, we've been able to do so since we were able to focus at that distance, we identify people by the differences in their bodies and faces. So it's inbuilt in us to see that it's perfectly normal for everyone to have different bodies, with different attributes, and different voices, with different depths and timbres.

As we get older, we learn that people don't always physically see and hear things the same way we do. We learn that people can be blind, or long-sighted, or short-sighted, or colour-blind, or whatever ... or that we are, and other people have 20/20 vision. As we get older, we learn that dogs have a sense of smell thousands (millions?) of times more acute than ours is, and that they can probably "see" the world of scent in as much vivid detail as we see the world of light. We can watch them doing this, finding and tracking things using scents hours or days old. These are learned things. But we rarely ever get the opportunity to learn that the human mind is just the same in its variations as the human body is. We rarely (if ever) get "officially taught" to internalise the concept that minds have different capabilities, and that we can't expect people to be able to do everything that we can do. It's obvious to us that someone can't help not being as tall as us, or as slim as us, or having colour-blindness, or a different colour hair, and that it doesn't mean they are deliberately setting out to be annoying or irritating or could "get better if they only tried to". We've learned not to get angry with someone for being less physically able than we are due to some physical limitation. A trapeze artist in a circus can see quite clearly that most people can't do what he does, and that most people probably can't ever learn to do what he does. It's not just a matter of "trying harder" or "learning skills". A chunkily-built and inherently unsupple person is never, never going to be able to learn to be a consummately-skilled trapeze artist. and they can't help it. They're not doing it on purpose to annoy the trapeze artist. That's just the way they are.

Some people with outstanding brains (and I'm including Malleus and Kiefer here, as well as several others) just hagve trouble understanding that when someone is seeming to be so bloody stupid, arseholeish, pathetic and all that, there's a good chance that they can't help it. Some people are just naturally lacking in what it takes to see right through to what is so clear, and so obvious, to people like MF and KW, and it really feels as though they must be doing it on purpose. (Of course, sometimes some of them are. But not all of them, all of the time.) When you really feel that someone is going out of their way to be obnoxious, it makes you angry. That's normal. It's a normal human reaction. All that people with truly outstanding and right-at-the-end-of-the-bell-curve minds, which think in less-than-usual ways, which have lightning-fast comprehension and clarity in some areas, need to do, is to remember that "normal" people can't help not having the same kind of brain. If we/they tweaked the perception a smidge and decided to view "normal people" as being "comparatively disabled" instead (they can't help it), maybe the anger and irritation would take much, much longer to kick in.

People with truly outstanding minds and thought-processes tend to think that what they are is normal, on an internalised level. Minds are invisible. We can't see the differences, and we having nothing, nothing whatever, in our own experience, to compare them with. Pesky (talk) 08:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Malleus and Kiefer (and others like you): you have the ability to "see" mentally with the naked eye (as it were) things that other people can't see without an electron microscope. You can see why something is areseholish. But not everyone else can do that. People genuinely can't see why what they did is arseholish or cuntish. They can't see it any more easily than red-green colour-blind people can see the numbers in those colour-blindness tests ... which means that, when they can't see it, they can't ever understand why what seemed perfectly OK to them is not perfectly OK to others. They just don;t have the perception that you have. Pesky (talk) 08:46, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Well said Pesky. I might point out that it's a two-way street and that arseholeishness should not beget arseholeishness, but I think that point has been said far too many times, albeit without the "word" arseholeishness. WormTT · (talk) 09:04, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes, far too many times, and nearly always just because one side or the other can't "see" something! The more I look at problems on Wikipedia, the more I become convinced that at least 75% of them stem either from plain misunderstandings, or some people simply not being able to "see" what the other side is "seeing". If only I could wave a magic wand and make us all pure telepaths, so that we could understand each others' abilities, strengths and weaknesses better! Everyone (well, everyone reasonable) has no trouble making allowances for someone in a wheelchair not being able to climb mountains. The mind thing is exactly the same, but invisible. And everyone thinks that what they personally can and can;t do is "normal", and everyone else is being either deliberately and wilfully obnoxious, or is "abnormal". Pesky (talk) 11:06, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
I like that. I too feel that the majority of personal conflicts on Wikipedia stem either from plain misunderstandings, or some people simply not being able to "see" what the other side is "seeing". And the written conversation format doesn't help to "see" others. —MistyMorn (talk) 12:38, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
One of the things that often amuses me is that some persons supposed to be total opposites in both characteristics and views, eventually turn out to be more similar to each other than to anyone else. I'd go into more details but I think that might be better off-wiki. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:27, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Hugz Demi; I'm very fond of you, too, and you've been incredibly good to me when things were rough. I think, underneath, in ways we don't expect, loads of humans (despite their differences) are actually very similar! I bet if all of us here could sit together in my local pub, share a really good local beer, and some sunshine, and excellent pub food, we'd actually all get on like a house on fire. Everyone has the occasional glitch. There's no need to start battles over occasional glitches. Pesky (talk) 03:31, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Philosophy for today - words chain us

It's a lot easier dealing with animals! Words are strange things. Words have so many meanings; you only have to look in a really good thesaurus to see some of the very varying nuances of a word, by reading all the other words which are kinda-synonymous but don't mean exactly the same thing. They don't "feel right".

All a word is, is a kind of label for a concept, and concepts are incredibly complex things with rainbow-colours of harmonics around them. A word is never big enough, full enough, to describe the concept. It's a convenience label, a kind of shorthand-wossname, and the same "label" can be a convenience label for a whole heap of concepts, of each of which it only highlights one small facet. Words are supposed to facilitate our understanding, deeply, of things. But, so often, instead of doing that, all they do is chain us in, remove the rainbow-hued, multi-faceted, multi-tonal wholeness of the concept.

All cats are mammals, but not all mammals are cats. Cats have a whole mass of things in common with dogs, but they're not dogs. A word doesn't really cut it, apart from when it's something like "cat", when everyone understands the wholeness of the concept of "cat". And people have different experiences of cats, which colours their own personal understanding of what "cat" means. It has differing emotional values. Some people hear the word, or think "cat", and feel full of cuddly affection. Some feel filled with hatred, contempt, or terror. If the word "cat" (and all its synonyms) hadn't been invented, nor the noun for any other of the small furry mammals, it would be really hard to describe a cat in such a way that your description couldn't also mean "dog", or "rabbit", or "fox". You can make it more easy by saying "it makes a noise like meow". Fine - that makes it clearer. But there's a whole lot more to the difference between a cat and a dog than a "meow" or a "woof".

"It's fluffy." Yes, lots of things are fluffy. Some of those things are cats. Dammit, a slice of mouldy bread is "fluffy" or "furry", but it's a different kind of furry, without the connotations of "cuddly"!

Adjectives are bastards, really, because they can apply to so many, many different things. Most concepts can only be described well by a noun which means exactly that thing and nothing else. And most of the nouns haven't been invented, and never will be. This is what chains us. An adjective can restrict our perception, instead of enhancing it the way it should do. It's when adjectives start to be used as nouns, as labels, that we fall foul of this one. Pesky (talk) 07:33, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

The word block is really really wrong for wikipedia when it is a 'temporary' block. because it gives a mixed message which people do not understand, worse still is when they call a 'temporary' block just a block instead. That is confusing, uncivil and drives good editors away, admins should not be allowed to say the entire community doesn't want you here, because it might just be that admin.
Slow down should be the wording and the message. It's accurate, polite and has the actual message in it. Why use words that do not convey the actual message ? The message is Slow down, cool off, think about what you have done, then we want you back with us. Penyulap

Expanding: you know that game "Twenty Questions"? If you don't here's a rough idea. A person thinks of a "thing", and the rest have to guess what it is, just by asking questions about it, with yes/no answers (and often you can;t even give a yes/no, it's more of a "sometimes" or "could be".) If you play it properly, and don't allow anything apart from "yes" or "no", the asker loses out on that turn to ask a question. Often it starts with the "thing" being roughly categorised into animal, vegetable, mineral, or abstract. Questions can be things like "Is it shiny?" "Is it hard?" "Is it bigger than a football?" You can tweak the game by allowing unlimited questions, not just twenty, in which the askers have to guess what you meant.

And sometimes you can ask a hundred or more questions, and still nobody has guessed correctly. That's how complex a noun is.

And if you play the advanced game, questions aren't allowed to use nouns themselves, so you can't get into a fractal-type classification system by asking "Is it an emotion?" or "Is it a mammal?" Pesky (talk) 07:49, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Q. Is it that thing that you can sit on, sleep on, and brush your teeth with ? Penyulap
No, it's not "your hands"! Pesky (talk) 13:27, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Ha! too many ideas, I would have gone for "a chair, a bed and a toothbrush" but the question posed in pop culture is 'what can you' rather than 'is it that thing. meh.
Is it fast ? Penyulap
ummm ... seing as how I have forgotten what it was I thought of, I can't answer! Pesky (talk) 08:56, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Have you seen this?

Hello Pesky. We obviously disagree strongly on the Courcelles issue, but leaving that to one side, I was wondering if your relationship with Abhijay/Soviet King extends to formal mentoring, or just informal advice. I'm not sure if you've had a chance yet to see this — do we think it's a good idea for SK to be getting involved in adminny stuff when he himself doesn't exactly have a great recent past? —Strange Passerby (talkcont) 12:03, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't do any kind of formal mentoring, at all, just try to provide a bit of friendly help and / or advice, particularly if people are anywhere on the autism spectrum. I'll take a look ... Pesky (talk) 13:22, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Hmmm, interesting. Normally I'd say "only with vast care and attention" (if at all), but (provided that everyone else's homework has been done correctly – and I haven't checked, myself, on that issue) it would appear to be that in this instance SK is dead right, and bringing this to a wider audience was the right thing to do. SK, that's not in any way saying you have carte blanche to do anything which seems to you immediately to be right! But you do seem to be right on this occasion, so well done! Pesky (talk) 13:25, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Strange Passerby, I would like to reiterate that no formal mentoring will be provided at this stage. Pesky is my new advisor, and you are not on my case anymore. So please, go and find something else to do. Pesky is there, and if I'm doing something, he/she will look into it by herself ok? IMO, you've just been making a huge issue about me ever since we both met at WP:ITN/C. I'm not hurting anyone neither am I causing problems. True I did meet up with mishaps, but that's like when, March, get over it. I am human, I make errors. You are not an admin/bureaucrat to enforce me what I can or cannot do on Wikipedia. You've already allocated enough drama for the year, and wasted enough. Simply mind your business, and grow up. Soviet King Говорите со мной. 09:53, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
SK, where I run into you (and ANI may well be one of those places), I am as welcome as anyone else to comment on a thread you may start. This includes bringing it to the notice of your "advisor". If you want to go back to being uncivil and hiding behind your autism/Aspergers again... —Strange Passerby (talkcont) 10:54, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
SK, you've slipped into that autie-trap again! Strange Passerby's question to me was perfectly reasonable, and perfectly acceptable, and Wikipedia is everyone's business here! Instead of letting that autie-defensive thing take over (and trust me, I know why we A-spectrum folks can feel so persecuted and defensive ... it's very often because all our old emotional baggage includes actually having been persecuted and needing to defend ourselves), the autie-trap is to go from that into hypervigilance (which, if you read it, will ring many, many bells for you!) ... so, instead of letting that take over, read and learn by heart (and I know you can do this!) WP:AGF! Telling Strange Passerby to WP:BUTTOUT, mind his own business and (worst of all) "grow up", is just not on! It's not allowed, OK? Now, hugz, take a cookie, sit somewhere quiet and learn that AGF thing, and know that I don't hate or dislike you, just some of the things you sometimes do, which you can learn ways to avoid, because you're smart, OK? Pesky (talk) 11:37, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Brilliant Idea Barnstar Hires.png The Brilliant Idea Barnstar
For your comments here and here that proved to be not only the inspiration for the solution, but a blue-print for it as well. Thanks for helping us think outside the box! — GabeMc (talk) 21:45, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you :D I have this personal "fing" about not letting our tools become our masters, when it's actually relatively simple to tweak the tools instead! Pesky (talk) 00:20, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
Extended content