User talk:Worm That Turned/Archive 16

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AFC review

Someone on IRC asked about the review of Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Public finance mechanism. I find it a bit borderline, but I'm leaning towards accepting it. I feel a bit too tired to make a good decision. Care to take a look and tell me what you think? Ryan Vesey Review me! 08:19, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I get the feeling that it's not quite there. Is it a international term, something that's used globally? It looks like original research full of buzzwords to me... Worm^TT · (talk) 08:27, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Second Opinion

Alter Eco [1] - i fail to see how an image of the founder of a company adds anything to a stub with not a single source, except one from the same company. Can you back me up on this point (with your opinion) or am i overreacting a tad? Thanks Jenova20 14:32, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

It's pretty much a no biggie - I'd suggest rather than re-reverting, you should have taken it to the talk page. Your other edit, rewording, looked good. Worm^TT · (talk) 14:41, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

I posted on his page after he reverted as there was more chance of him seeing it there. I'm a member of Wikiproject unsourced articles (or something along those lines) and so i work on things randomly from time to time. That article read like an advert though. Thanks Jenova20 15:02, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

If you've started discussion, I don't think you've done anything wrong :) Worm^TT · (talk) 15:05, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks =] Jenova20 15:07, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

---

...Trying now to add a reference to Almond jelly (possibly of interest to the Bacon Icecream wizard?) but my edit was blocked by the Spam Filter??? Why is it a blacklisted site as it says and so i can't use it as a minor ref? You can see the link yourself by combining these 2 - [http://www.ehow.][com/how_4621475_almond-jelly-dessert.html] Thanks Jenova20 15:39, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Jenova, I forgot to reply! Sorry! eHow is a blacklisted site, because it's user generated and not reliably sourced - it's quite simply not reliable in any way shape or form. If that's your only ref, it's no better than "a guy in the pub told me". Worm^TT · (talk) 07:48, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Reading the way you worded that just made me realize that Wikipedia's reliable source requirements aren't nearly as strict as I thought. I remember being in discussion (or writing a paper for school for that matter) and any .com source was mentioned as being equivalent to "I heard it in the hallway". Ryan Vesey Review me! 07:52, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

From a certain point of view, yes, that's certainly true, any .com can be bought and have anything published. We do a little further than that though, looking into the site, whether they are editorially reviewed or user generated and so on... But yes, we're not that strict really. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:00, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Fair point and thanks for the reply. I didn't know it was user-generated. Thanks again Jenova20 08:41, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Your page

Your page regarding me is more than a bit stalkerish. I politely request that you get rid of it. If you like to compile my activity, take it offline. Keepscases (talk) 06:11, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Of course. I compiled the list to see if you were actually abusing the request for adminship process, as a number of editors had said, and since it's pretty clear from it that you werent, I've since persuaded a few using that list. I've now deleted it, but should you need a copy, please do not hesitate to ask. Worm^TT · (talk) 07:25, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I thank you sincerely. Keepscases (talk) 07:44, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

And I can but apologise, there was no need for me to keep it on wiki, it was insensitive. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:06, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

It's all good. Good day to you sir. Keepscases (talk) 09:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Bacon ice cream

I notice that the PR of bacon ice cream closed today. I probably won't keep the article on my watchlist, but if you want to move my comments somewhere else so you can update your progress, just drop a note on my talk page and let me know where. If not, it was still a fun article to review, and I hope my comments were helpful. Acdixon ^{(talk · contribs)} 13:27, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm still quite focussed on Doom Bar at the moment, so will keep bacon ice cream on the back burner for now. I'm sure I'll get to it sooner or later though, and as I say I really appreciate your comments. I'll make sure I give you a heads up when I start work on it, so you can either re-add it to your watchlist or pop by periodically. Worm^TT · (talk) 13:30, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Acdixon can you place them on the article talk page if WormTT hasn't already asked you to put them somewhere else.

This way they're available to more viewers who may want to help out. Thanks Jenova20 14:26, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Good idea Jenova, I've transcluded in the same way the GA is. Worm^TT · (talk) 14:29, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I've added collapse boxes around the GA and peer review discussion so the talk page is easier to navigate. Ryan Vesey Review me! 17:23, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Happy days! =] Thanks Jenova20 17:40, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Deletion tests in your adoption program

I was looking though the tests in the adoption program and one of them was User:Worm That Turned/Adopt/Deletion/Test/Q5. I said I would add an A7 tag and you replied that you would use A1. Now that I look at it, I am almost certain it should be tagged as a G3 hoax. On a side note, I cannot believe I would have PRODed the fourth one. Facepalm Maybe I was under the impression that everything had to be deleted. The sources you used in your question aren't even used in the actual article Plymouth Blitz. I'll probably add them sometime, it's only start class. Ryan Vesey Review me! 01:27, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Tracy Beaker (character)

Carabinieri (talk) 16:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Your signature

Hi, Worm That Turned. With my browser settings (black background), I have difficulty reading your signature. Would you consider adjusting it please? Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:42, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Don't use a black background. Signatures are to conform to majority, not minority.—cyberpower ^Chat_Offline 11:50, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Rubbish cyberpower, it's a perfectly reasonable request. Black backgrounds are great for reducing eye strain and can be used to create great contrast. Axl, I'll work on some alternatives on Monday. Worm^TT · (talk) 15:15, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Worm That Turned. Axl ¤ [Talk] 18:08, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

The request is inappropriate and has no grounding in policy. Feel free to ignore it. Sven Manguard Wha? 20:48, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

the request is perfectly reasonable. I never ignore reasonable requests. Worm^TT · (talk) 20:53, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

If you say so Worm. I on the other hand would want the same request from different users for me to want to change my signature.—cyberpower ^Chat_Online 21:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

WTT: I fail to see how it is reasonable. He is seeking to force people to make changes, to force his personal preferences on other people, because he has made a completely optional, completely superficial change to his settings and now things don't work as well for him. Sven Manguard Wha? 21:09, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Sven, custom sigs are "completely optional, completely superficial change to ... settings" but sometimes they disrupt other users. Worm seems to be being very reasonable. DuncanHill (talk) 21:12, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

If Axl had come to me telling me to change my signature - I might have had more of a problem with it, but since he asked politely - I certainly have no issues with his request. He's not trying to force anyone do anything, he's asking me to do something in a pleasant manner. I don't mind changing my sig if someone has a problem with it, I'm creative enough to come up with something that won't cause issue. Must remember not to go over 255 chars though, or I think cyberpower will have my head on a platter. Worm^TT · (talk) 07:28, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

If everyone else is gonna pile on in the morning...The request was polite, he asked, he didn't tell Worm to do something. And for what it's worth we know Dave will go above and beyond to please his fans. Jenova20 08:15, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Fans... Ha! Though in this recent weather, if anyone has a spare... especially that funky Dyson one... I wouldn't say no. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:17, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

The Air multiplier fan?

...Besides, if you're taking signature requests, where's the D for Doctor Worm? =P Morning everyone Jenova20 08:20, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Morning? More like good night. I've been up until 4:00 am learning how to use AWB and adding category to es.wikipedia pages and then trying to get Huggle to work for es.wikipedia (still not fixed). I'm going to bed, so good night all. Ryan Vesey Review me! 09:01, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Get to bed Ryan. By the way, speaking of sigs, any reason you have a <tt> </tt> in yours? I can't personally see the point ;) Worm^TT · (talk) 09:04, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and one of the things I was going to say is that I'm very impressed by you again Worm (per the above). The <tt> </tt> is so that I don't need to add a space before my signature. I used to forget about half of the time and now I never put the space in. If you know of another solution, tell me, but it is currently only 11 characters including the space, so I don't think it can get a lot smaller. Strangely, nobody commented on that for a year of me using it (granted a good portion of that year was inactive) and now you are the second person in roughly a week. Ryan Vesey Review me! 09:10, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

It's something I'd noticed for a while, but never thought to mention. Surely a non-breaking space would be easier though   - 6 characters, not 11. Or a breaking space, which is   Or if you want to be wiki-wise about it... include a {{space}} (or {{s}})... or maybe even a {{Sp}}! Worm^TT · (talk) 09:21, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I wish I could use a non-breaking space, but that would be bad in situations where my signature would normally appear on a new line due to running out of space. Maybe not so bad, it wouldn't hurt to pull the preceding word down. I feel like I read something that says it is against policy to use a template in your signature, so I don't think the other options are actually options. I'll respond in 8 hours. Ryan Vesey Review me! 09:26, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

You could be right... I should double check. But the breaking spacie is still an option :) Chat later. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:29, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes there is such a rule. Back to putting your head on a platter, what comes around goes around. :). Which comes to mind that I would like to discuss some of my signatures with regarding char count.—cyberpower ^Chat_{Limited Access} 10:48, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

It makes sense really - otherwise you could have massive long sigs which change after the fact, which isn't helpful to anyone. :) Oh and no platter for me 255 chars exactly. Smug look. As for your sigs, just let me know which ones. Worm^TT≡talk≡ 10:53, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Not to mention that server resources will be blown up (maybe even be put into read only mode) when a change does happen.—cyberpower ^Chat_{Limited Access} 11:12, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Moved to User:Worm That Turned/Sig Test

---

And I've finished. Doesn't look much different to my old one, but will be much more helpful for anyone who does use a black background.
Worm^TT≡talk≡
For those who want to know what Axl is likely to see...

Worm^TT≡talk≡

Thoughts? Worm^TT≡talk≡ 10:09, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I think the brackets round 'talk' were better than the three lines, but I like the white outline, looks really nice!  Adam Mugliston  Talk  10:11, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Was wondering that myself, will see how I feel and may change back to brackets. Also the small-caps, not 100% sure on. The only remaining problem is that it still shows up weirdly in IE, but at least it's not all black then. Worm^TT≡talk≡ 10:14, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, IE is weird itself, so no wonder. Also, not really sure about the Times font, but then that's just me, as I hate Times.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  10:25, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, WTT. Your new signature is clear to me. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:27, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

No problem at all. The only annoyance is that I think it looks better for you than the rest of us! Worm^TT≡talk≡ 10:30, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

• I still like but now I have to date my April Fools sig.—cyberpower ^Chat_{Limited Access} 10:48, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

  Sorry, I didn't think about derivative sigs as a priorty! You could make an april fools of this one (or wait for a few weeks in case I tweak it again) Worm^TT≡talk≡ 10:53, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Well i like the new sig Dave...i just don't like the "Talk" bit. Jenova20 11:59, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, had enough of the Times/equivalent talk... back to brackets and normal font. Kept the green and the outline Worm^TT(talk) 09:36, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Looks a lot better, really good and still quite posh.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  10:06, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Disruptive editing

Can i get you to double check User talk:User931 and make sure i'm handling this appropriately. Thanks Jenova20 13:08, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Not terribly, but stop reverting - let the article be wrong for a little bit, to allow discussion to happen. Worm^TT≡talk≡ 13:17, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

There's been attempted discussions but he'd rather edit disruptively than talk about it productively. Still, this is why i ask your advice because you have more experience. Thanks Dave Jenova20 13:20, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

No problems. I saw you'd started discussion on the talk page, but he hasn't replied there. I can drop him a note suggesting he does if you like? Worm^TT≡talk≡ 13:22, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure...If he takes it well then great...but if he doesn't it may not seem so well that i'm getting more people involved.

If you can get him to understand that he's not being productive and this isn't the right way to argue a point across then good =] Thanks Jenova20 13:56, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm just going to suggest he goes to the talk page, which I'll do now. Hopefully you (and other regulars there) can sort it out from there. Worm^TT≡talk≡ 13:57, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Short and sweet and straight to the point. Good work! I hope he does it. Thanks

I assume i'll meet Dave this saturday also as it would be a good opportunity to =P Jenova20 20:31, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Unless you fancy coming up and painting a house, I'm afraid not! I've got big plans for work on the bank holdiay weekend! Worm^TT≡talk≡ 08:37, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh well that's a shame Dave. I do have a B'tec level 2 in Interior Design but i intend to have a good time saturday and spend my week off doing odd jobs and using my pride literature for improvement of some pretty terrible articles. Maybe next year? Thanks Jenova20 08:51, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

RE: AFD

Ad hominems do not belong in the AFD. Hat note'ing it is appropriate see | see this as an example .  KoshVorlon. Angeli i demoni krushili nado mnoj...  13:11, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm still looking into that, but whether or not it was appropriate to hat in the first place, it's not appropriate to edit war over hiding it, especially when you are the subject of the "ad hominem". It'd be much better to let someone uninvolved handle it. Worm^TT≡talk≡ 13:14, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Understood....I'll do as you ask and leave it alone.  KoshVorlon. Angeli i demoni krushili nado mnoj...  13:20, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, I appreciate that. Worm^TT≡talk≡ 13:21, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Would you move this to the article space?

I am trying to decide whether to move User:Ryan Vesey/Iván Guzmán de Rojas to the article space. I just finished translating it from Spanish Wikipedia, but it is less sourced than an article I normally write would be. I would also like to submit it as a DYK for the Atamiri software and/or president of the Bolivian National Election Court if I can find a source. Ryan Vesey Review me! 02:51, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Besides the fact that the {{translated page}} should be on the talk page... it looks good to me. As you say, not the best sourced, nor is it clear why he's notable (if his biggest achievement is a red link, that's not the best) - I'm assuming that the court post is enough for notability, but you may want to mention that in the lead. Worm^TT≡talk≡ 09:08, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Using a source that doesn't address every point in the sentence

I am working on translating Higher University of San Andrés from Spanish Wikipedia. The Spanish Wikipedia page is(was) slightly contradictory and unsourced. I found a source for some date information; however, my translation from Spanish Wikipedia shows that the university was created by Supreme Decree on October 25, 1830. My information from my source states that the university was created by Andrés de Santa Cruz in 1830. The information that is being referenced is mixed throughout the sentence, now "The university was created by Andrés de Santa Cruz by Supreme Decree on 25 October, 1830." Is currently have my source at the end of the sentence; however, then it appears that the source confirms the statement on the Supreme Degree and the specific date of 25 October. What solution would you think of? Ryan Vesey Review me! 06:25, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

From a bit of snooping, it sounds like "Supreme Decree" is something that is done by the President of Bolivia, which is something Andres de Santa Cruz was in 1830. So, it's reasonable to assume that that's correct. The date isn't supported by the source though, so I'd move the citation inline to the name "The university was created by Andrés de Santa Cruz[SOURCE] by Supreme Decree on 25 October, 1830." - There's no reason to think that the rest is incorrect but it should be clear that it's without a source. Worm^TT≡talk≡ 09:31, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Map (things)

Example
Double station

Hi Worm, Are you any good with this sort of thing? If not, do you know someone who is?  Adam Mugliston  Talk  06:52, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, that's just a template/table - so it's not too difficult. If you're wanting to create a new one, then it might be more of a pain. What are you trying to do? Worm^TT≡talk≡ 07:21, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to move the red line (and so the text too) to the right, so I can add arrows in the correct directions to where other lines branch off. The branching closest to the top, I'd like it to branch off at 45 degrees and then go down parallel with an arrow. At 'Plac Narutowicza' I'd like a double station where the left hand side track continues straight, while the right hand side, terminates there and branches off as I showed above the current station.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  07:38, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm a little busy at the moment, will have to look more this afternoon, but have you checked out this instruction manual? It shows you how do bits and bobs. Worm^TT≡talk≡ 07:41, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I've done one bit, which I'm very pleased with, but there's still another bit I'm not sure about, so I'll wait.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  08:40, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Right. I think I've got the 45 degrees and arrow. They don't make this easy! I'll look at the other bits. I'm not sure about the benefit of putting it on the right, left seems like the default. Worm^TT(talk) 10:28, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes! That's perfect. If you could either show me how to do them or do them that'd be great. Thanks!  Adam Mugliston  Talk  10:33, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Tell you what, have a look at my edit and see if it makes any sense! It's using {{BS3}}, which allows 3 lines in the order "Image,Image,Image,Dist./Time,Text,Note,Note". Voila. Worm^TT(talk) 10:38, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I managed some, but I still have some text errors and in 2 cases track errors. Jeez, this is really complicated!  Adam Mugliston  Talk  10:54, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

It really is! I'm probably going to revert you (Sorry!) because I've made quite a few improvements (in my mind)... so I'll update it and you can re-make your good edits if that's ok... Worm^TT(talk) 10:57, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Fine, I don't mind, none of them worked fully anyway. By the way, are tram lines considered notable?  Adam Mugliston  Talk  11:01, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't think anything is considered "notable" by default, everything needs to prove itself. If there's coverage of the tramline in reliable sources, then yes it's notable. Oh and this is really useful for this blasted stuff. Worm^TT(talk) 11:03, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, I'll go look for sources then. They don't have to be in English though do they? I mean the text inside the source link. Those icons, yes, they're very useful. I'll have a look what you do to fix all my mess and I'll also learn like that.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  11:12, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

No, but don't forget there are a lot of foreign language speakers on wp, so don't just assume that it's enough without understanding the source! Worm^TT(talk) 11:13, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes, of course. By the way, can you make Trams to Targowa, Okopowa and Banacha straight off to the sides at 90 degrees? Sorry for moaning.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  11:19, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I can. It's EASIER to do that! I wish you'd said earlier :P Worm^TT(talk) 11:23, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm trying to get my head round and learn all this map stuff.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  11:25, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry, so am I! Anyway, check it out, think I've got it. Worm^TT(talk) 11:34, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Lovely, thanks. I'm going to try making more soon, hopefully I'll find it easier now. One question: What's the difference between BS3 and BS3-2?  Adam Mugliston  Talk  11:48, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

BS3-2 (and BS-2) allows you to have text on both the left and right of the image. Made sense as you were having branches off both sides. Worm^TT(talk) 11:50, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

OK, so just to clarify: If I'm doing just the 'mainline' I use BS, but when I have branches I use BS3-2, right?  Adam Mugliston  Talk  12:01, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Pretty much, yes. (BS2, not BS) Worm^TT(talk) 12:04, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Right. Thanks.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  12:13, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you again, how do I make a double station of which the right hand side line continues straight up, while the left hand side terminates at the double station. They then merge below, but I know how to do that. Link: Template:Warsaw Tramways Line 1  Adam Mugliston  Talk  13:16, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Something like that? Worm^TT(talk) 13:23, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Almost, but the left hand side line actually stops at the double.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  13:27, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Like that? Worm^TT(talk) 13:39, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Exactly, thank you.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  14:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Worm, another map problem: Template:Warsaw Tramways Line 17. I was trying to make a junction and depot, you'll probably see from the code if you have time to quickly look.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  09:31, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

You need to use BS3. BSn is used for multiple images on one line, where n is the number of images. However, it lines up better for 3, rather than 2... no idea why. Worm^TT(talk) 09:51, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh, of course, silly me. But it still won't line up with the junction.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  09:58, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Just need the right depot :) Worm^TT(talk) 10:05, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I couldn't find the right one.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  10:52, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Curious

I was just wondering if you've seen this RFC, specifically the section asking for possible candidates? I'm not sure if you're interested in working in that area, but your history of mentoring is exemplary and makes you a natural. As you are one of the community's most respected admins, I'm sure you'd be very much welcomed in that role. Just thought I'd ask about it. Best regards. 64.40.57.22 (talk) 13:12, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, I can't say I have seen the RfC, but I can't just ignore someone who's willing to butter me up so much! I'll go and have a look now, and thank you very much for the kind words. Worm^TT(talk) 13:14, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Very interesting. Will have to think about that. Worm^TT(talk) 13:41, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Adoption

Sorry for the delay, I've had (and still have) exams, and I got a bit of DYK done as well, as you may have seen from my user page. Also, do you have any Good Article advice for Church of Saint Oswald, King and Martyr, Oswaldkirk, as I'm thinking of getting it up to GA standard. Also, after a (slight) delay, I have answered your questions. Thanks! --Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 20:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I am getting to this... honest! Worm^TT(talk) 09:42, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Cup of tea

Do you know what cup of tea rhymes with? IRC, fancy a chat sometime? Sadly, now doesn't work as I must step away. The fact that you drink tea reminded of something else. You aren't just living in the UK, you are British. Therefore, I should stop reading your comments in a Minnesotan-American accent. I find it difficult to create a British accent though, even in my mind. Have you considered doing a "listen to this article"? If you did, I could place your voice, and would discontinue reading your comments incorrectly. Ryan Vesey Review me! 22:03, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't actually drink tea that much, except when I'm headed to bed, which is where I'll be headed in a few moments. Having said that, I am a Brit, posh accent and all, so perhaps Minnesota isn't the best! Haven't thought of doing a listen to the article... possibly because I'm not the greatest public speaker. But no matter, whatever accent you choose for me is absolutely fine! As for the IRC chat, perhaps this weekend? I should be available at some point. Worm^TT(talk) 22:06, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

You could use a voice changer app to do it? I'm sure there's a Stephen Hawking one on Google Play =P, that or helium? Jenova20 22:28, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I should be back on around 2:00 your time. Ryan Vesey Review me! 07:55, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

User talk:User931

He's still not getting it...If you could be so kind as to take a look. Thanks Jenova20 09:26, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm a little too busy to take an in depth look, but I did notice it wasn't him who changed it from Expected to Speculated. I don't see massive problems with adding crystal and cn templates on things that are speculation, but I do see a problem with you calling his edits vandalism and reverting again. Yesterday, you'd tried to talk to him and reverted a little too much, today, you're displaying WP:OWN and going over the top. Worm^TT(talk) 09:35, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I saw it as vandalism that he refuses to discuss this anywhere but sees fit to continue tagging a cited section as "citation needed". I tagged vandalism because a level 3 Disruptive editing tag was ignored by him.

I was umming and arring about leaving the crystal tag but it does not use the same stance as the WP:CRYSTAL policy which allows this section to stay in if it is decently sourced and a real possibility of being true in the future.

I see deliberate acting disruptively after being warned as vandalism since he seeks to avoid any discussion even after being warned it is counter-productive edit warring. Thanks Jenova20 09:43, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

And i know he didn't change "Expected" to "Speculated" but that's semantics and that's why i ignored it. Jenova20 09:47, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Avoiding discussion =/= vandalism. Vandalism is an edit which is deliberately aimed at harming the encyclopedia - the edits, though you disagree with them, are clearly in good faith. If I were you, I'd call for a third opinion (WP:3O) on the talk page, explaining that the editor is refusing to discuss and that you'd like some fresh eyes on the situation. And as I told you yesterday STOP REVERTING! Worm^TT(talk) 09:50, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I've asked for a third op. Thanks Jenova20 11:19, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Third opinion was rejected, with the reason "Active disagreements: Removing Talk:Android version history#WP:CRYSTAL, no talk page discussion as required by guidelines)"

Now what? Thanks Jenova20 15:09, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

My fault, I didn't realise that was a requirement. I'll have more of a look in a bit. Worm^TT(talk) 07:23, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

He's responding on the talk page now so maybe he spotted this conversation. Thanks Jenova20 08:03, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Ok. Get back to me if (or when) it all blows up. Worm^TT(talk) 08:12, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Will do. And i'll let you know if i ever finish a feathered costume =P Jenova20 08:30, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Host feedback needed at the Teahouse!

Hi! We're seeking your feedback as a current or formal host at the Teahouse about the project. Please stop by and lend your voice at your convenience, here. Thanks :) Sarah (talk) 20:05, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Yep, I've left my thoughts. It's a great project, but I'm not sure of the longevity. Worm^TT(talk) 18:05, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Requesting your assistance

At Android version history. I know you're unbiased and don't mind shouting at me so can i get you to assist since it's just personal attacks and edit warring? Thanks Jenova20 10:57, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll keep out of this for now, thanks :D Worm^TT(talk) 18:06, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I's under control now. Thanks Jenova20 18:18, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Hey can you give your input on this?

Talk:Blue (Bill Mack song)#Requested move Swifty*^talk 11:29, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

By the way I cannot use Yahoo email anymore. My new anti-virus, anti-spyware blocks all free emails, Yahoo, google, hotmail, etc. Swifty*^talk 11:35, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Scratch that guess I can get on yahoo just got your email LOL! Swifty*^talk 18:19, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

I certainly hope your email included a reference to Wikipedia:Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. I was coming here to tell you that I thought this situation bears monitoring, but I see you are already aware of it.—Kww(talk) 18:27, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Kww I know you are trying to help but I feel strongly on this. WP:COMMANNAME should have played a role in this as I pointed out in the talk page and you are more then welcome to oppose or support it if you want. But I just feel this issue was handled wrong and I want to correct it and if Worm wants to comment on it and monitor it he is more then welcome as he's my adoptee so yeah lol! Swifty*^talk 18:43, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Hey Kww. My email was on an unrelated subject, and about how well Swifty had handled it. I don't know if you noticed, but he's been away for a few weeks, and there was no on-wiki drama about it. I really ought to drop him a barnstar for that, it's hard to change a habit like that. As for the STICK, yes, I can see why you feel that way, however Swifty is going about this in exactly the correct manner - asking for community review of the facts and discussing. If the requested move fails due to consensus, I'm sure he'll accept that, but there's nothing wrong with asking for the move. When I looked into it last, I thought that it was moved incorrectly. Can't remember why, but I'll look in again and drop my thoughts there. Worm^TT(talk) 17:40, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Aaannnd I've given my opinion. I've looked into the policies, the background and some other cases. I don't agree with how it got there, but if someone had put a RM for it to get there, it should have been moved. I'm confident it's currently in the right place. What's more, I don't think the name of the article is a big deal, since the redirect takes you to exactly the right place anyway. Worm^TT(talk) 18:15, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

RfA request

Hi Worm,

I see that you provide analyses from users who wish to become an admin. I am interested in becoming one. Main reason I want to become one is to continue to fight vandalism and help with WP:AIV, because a vandal if left unchecked even for a couple of minutes can do a lot of harm. I would really appreciate your analysis and nomination, if you feel I deserve it.

Thanks again. The Determinator p t c 14:46, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi The Determinator (or CapMan07008). I'm afraid I don't think you're ready to become an admin just at the moment. No matter how well you're doing, the current standards for adminship is quite a few thousand edits, and being here a year or so - indeed, no editor has passed with less than 3000 edits in the past 4-5 years. (You're currently on 1200 or so) - and the edit count expect for admins who specialise in anti-vandalism is generally much higher as it's largely done through automated edits.

However, don't be discouraged. I don't see anything wrong with the work you're doing so far. Spend another 6 months or so carrying on as you are, getting involved in other projects too, and you may well be ready for the mop. I might recommend you do a bit of content creation as well if you can - get something peer reviewed (DYK, GA, FA), so you can see what it is actually like for a content creator on the wiki. If it helps, you can always refer to my User:Worm That Turned/Magic Formula, which might give you some pointers for the future. Oh and one final thing, a lot of people don't like it when your signature is completely different to your username - you may want to either change username or change that sig. Good luck! Worm^TT(talk) 17:35, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

• (talk page stalker) — on the subject of RfAs, I'll be trying in around a year. Thoughts? Regards, Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 17:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

In around a year? Well, I'd say you're headed along the right track. Tell you what, come back in December and we can have a proper chat about it :) Until then, keep the magic formula in your head. Oh, and if you can keep away from hat collecting for that period, it'll reflect well on you! Worm^TT(talk) 17:43, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm topic banned on that until 9 April 2013. lol. --Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 17:44, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Are you? Well that sounds a little harsh - but then I suppose I heard about it, despite the fact that I never looked into it! Well, that's that out of the way, anyway. Just a shame you'd be going for adminship within a few months of it being lifted. If you keep up the good work, might be worth asking for it to be lifted in December. Give me a shout in the winter and I'll have a review and perhaps support it's removal. Worm^TT(talk) 17:49, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

See email with further details on it. --Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 17:52, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

		The Guidance Barnstar
		I really appreciate you input. I will incorporate your advice into my work. Here is a token of my appreciation.. The Determinator p t c 04:34, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Please see me about...

Greetings Worm^TT
...Adoption, Teahouse, New-users with potential, Academia in Wiki-Projects, and perhaps a slurry of jumbled categorical, topical, and/or similarly related things. I am Orschstaffer at Wikipedia, Meta-Wiki, and possibly interested in the other projects of the Foundation. Ideas are formulating in my brain, regarding the academic nature of improving the Projects. I'm quite sure I am ignorant to the point of not knowing what to ask, yet evolving into the next level of questioning relavant issues, I feel the need for guidance. My ability to focus my attention span waivers and I tend to gather to much information before I am able to assimilate it into something useful, however, I believe myself to be gifted in seeing the outcomes prior to forming a workable plan. Sometimes I chase the wrong rabbit-trails and get frustrated knowing all along there is an easier way, Perhaps it is called collaboration. I have left many of my attempts in various places in the form of Userpage and you may find out about me from such places as My Orsch Article which I believe to be COI (simply from my username), and Request for Creating, and see WP:Meta for me at User:Orschstaffer for some ideas about other items which may interest you or someone else. Verbosity is my bane, so I conclude with I hope I sparked your attention, could you meet-up with me say in the Teahouse over a cup of Tea or on one of my user pages? or even here if I know when you respond, (I get you have message notice when I login but I don't know if its just from the Teahouse). I would tag this response Be Bold or categorize it like How to improve the chances of new editors becoming successful Project Coordinators or some other useful contributor. Hope I picked the right adopter, if its adoption I really need, it probably is something else, search for Orschstaffer at the Teahouse as I have contibuted a few questions. Orschstaffer (talk) 14:47, 3 June 2012 (UTC), please forgive any unthoughtfulness or other unintentional unkindness if I cause you grief intruding upon your space here.

Aziz Shavershian

^Probably the hundredth time that heading has been used.

Hi Dave, An editor (User:Fourplay) and myself, are having a disagreement, regarding Shavershian's book - did he write it, or was it ghostwritten?

Fourplay, claims that Shavershian has told many times that he did not write the book. I have asked where he has stated that. No website or link provided. After two or so reverts today, I had taken a different - an unusual approach to things. I Asked the editor to join me in sorting things out on the talk page, hopefully things would be solved. Neither have happened. Here's the one-man discussion that has gotten zero replies from the user who claims of the ghostwritten book - yet they have provided no evidence to support thier claim.

What do I do now, because it's their revision that is in - (despite my latest revision preserved the sentence mentioning the book - however I made it hidden pending a discussion on the matter) and I obviously don't agree with it? Thank you, -- MST☆R ^{(Chat Me!)} 10:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Looks like someone has commented there. I've dropped in my 2p. Worm^TT(talk) 09:21, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your perspective - personally like the way you have re-written the sentence. I'm giving Fourplay 48 hours to comment regarding the change, before I move to reword it. Ball is in his court, hopefully he'll play it well. -- MST☆R ^{(Chat Me!)} 10:47, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Good to hear! Worm^TT(talk) 11:35, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Page Delete

Hi Dave, can you delete Usr:Jenova20/RandomImage when you have the time? Thanks Jenova20 20:42, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Is that a good idea? You're transcluding it onto your page. In other words, if I delete it, it'll stop showing up. Worm^TT(talk) 07:56, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I think s/he's concerned about the lack of an 'e' in Usr:Jenova20/RandomImage... ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 07:58, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm glad someone's got good eyesight. Didn't see that at all, cheers Danjel. Worm^TT(talk) 08:06, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Years and years and years of correcting spelling mistakes in students' work. :) ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 08:12, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much Dave, and you too Danjel Jenova20 12:00, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

What do you think?

I was just wondering what you think of the way I am organizing User:Ryan Vesey/Windom Area Schools with the three separate infoboxes. It certainly looks different than what it will in the end because it is lacking a lot of content. I need to get working on it, the lack of its existence is inhibiting my ability to work on Windom, Minnesota. Ryan Vesey Review me! 05:11, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

In addition, what do you think of my layout on User:Ryan Vesey/Ole J. Finstad. Does it work like that or would it be better chronological? I've always found creating chronological bios difficult because it is hard to create section headings. Ryan Vesey Review me! 05:44, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

If you're yet to add content, then that's perfectly good. There's a lot of articles with multiple infoboxes, for example, songs with different covers. You can use {{clear}} to make sure they line up with the right section, but Windom Area Schools looks good to me. As for the bio, I generally separate the personal life from the achievements, in the same way you have. So again, good job, keep going. Worm^TT(talk) 07:21, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Hey

[2] Are you able to post temporary semi-protections? Swifty*^talk 02:50, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

By the way I guess I did something with the Anti-virus/Anti-spyware firewall were it is now blocking me from going on yahoo. I do not know what I did but OOPS! I did it. So I can not get back on my yahoo. :( Swifty*^talk 02:58, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I am, but I'm not sure what's best in this sort of situation. The edits are in good faith - they just don't come with sources. It seems a bit unreasonable to stop all IPs posting. Having said that, I'll look with interest at what gets done. Worm^TT(talk) 07:16, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Okay. Me and Yoshi are doing all we can to keep it straightened it just aggravating to do everyday lol. Swifty*^talk 22:59, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

GA

I have my first GA. Thanks for suggesting it! :) --Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 12:59, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Don't thank me, I did nothing! Congratulations, you've done an excellent job :D Worm^TT(talk) 13:04, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diplomacy
	Thank you very much. You deserve it. Egeymi (talk) 17:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I didn't do much, just pressed a few buttons! Glad I could help though! Worm^TT(talk) 17:42, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Image Box

Hi Dave, when you have the time could you add an image box to my userpage like yours in my "Notable accomplishments" section. It would save me the time of having to go to my edit counter each time to find an uploaded image. Thanks Jenova20 19:22, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Do you mean the "image I've taken", like on my page? I could set that up for you if Dave's offline.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 19:31, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Yep, that's the one and i would be very appreciative if you could set that up Gilderien =D Thank you very much.

I believe Dave is away fiddling with his barbeque anyway Jenova20 19:39, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, I've set one up, it transcludes onto your page from User:Jenova20/RandomImage, replace the file names with ones you've uploaded, every time you upload another, add another line in the same style, and add 1 to both the start of the line and the "X + 1" counter at the top.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 20:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't think i've done it right...also the page it links to is "usr" instead of "user", that's a mistake right? Thanks Jenova20 20:16, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a typo, I corrected it, and I'll have a look at it in a few minutes.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 20:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

No rush. I'm pretty sure i've never photographed a barn by the way =P Jenova20 20:24, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

:) Thats the pioneer house, at Florissant fossils beds, in Colorado, it's one of the photos I've taken. If you replace the photos in User:Jenova20/RandomImage with ones you've taken, it will display them on your userpage.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 20:27, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

I think i've got it now. That's done right? Thanks Jenova20 20:42, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, it seems to be working alright, nice pictures btw.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 09:40, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much =] Jenova20 11:58, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

---

How do i move it to the right? Tried the same tactic as tables "|right" but that didn't work? Thanks Jenova20 11:56, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

You've got two options, enclose the template in something that moves it right or add a |right parameter to each image within User:Jenova20/RandomImage. Either should work. Worm^TT(talk) 12:02, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Could that also be used to add a caption underneath? Thanks Jenova20 14:03, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

The second certainly could. Instead of having [[File:Birmingham_Blaze_FC_At_Birmingham_Pride_2012.jpg|220px]], just put [[File:Birmingham_Blaze_FC_At_Birmingham_Pride_2012.jpg|thumb|right|CAPTION]] where the caption is the caption. Do that for each of your pictures. Worm^TT(talk) 14:12, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I forgot to do this but i'll do it now. Thanks a lot for the effort Dave Jenova20 10:07, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Help!!!

Richard Farmbrough recomended you to me. Can you please go through my user page and AWB every article that I have written or helped with, only please, bag you, no reverts!!!

• My userpage--Mishae (talk) 19:22, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Hey Mishae, I assume you are just looking for cleanup. Unless you need something a bit more specific, I am running through your contribs with AWB. I'm not going to be adding orphan tags unless you would like me to. I am under the impression that most of those articles are going to be almost impossible to de-orphan. Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:41, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, if you want to you can add orphan tags. The thing is is that I don't want to end up in the same mess as Rich did. He told me you are a good mentor when it comes to combining pointless edits with some good ones. Currently, I am on my second warning, and just like Rich have a chance to be blocked unless you will help me to prevent it. You see, Rich told me that is pointless to have white spaces in a taxobox, and I agree with him, but users like PamD and Stemonitis are against this, and I have mine opinion and they have their own. Can I have your back? Can you save my edits from those reverting scum? I will appreciate any helpful feedback.--Mishae (talk) 20:29, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Woah, where did that come from? Don't call people "reverting scum". I suggest that you read Wikipedia:No personal attacks and then redact that statement. Ryan Vesey Review me! 21:09, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Worm, I see I get a mention here. This editor seems obsessed with removing spaces from articles, even in helpful places like between the asterisk and the text of an entry in a bulleted list (as in this edit). There's some discussion on my user talk page (he rudely deleted the entire discussion - I replaced it - and he seems to think archives are literally a waste of space). He has some interesting attitudes to consensus, edit summaries, and other aspects of the encyclopedia. I will watch this conversation with interest! PamD 22:10, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Just as a comment, now that the editor has already been told not to make those edits, I would say that he should discontinue making them; however, I find that reverting his edits and arguing over them is equally as pointless if not more so. I find no valid argument for adding spaces or removing them as each produces the same result. Ryan Vesey Review me! 22:17, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

No way Josey! Or at least not until you will do an AWB for me, or teach me how to do it! Plus, I don't know how deact works, and don't even want to know how! You see, I have autism and Cerebral Palsy, that cause me to be very angry, and if I hurt your feelings, I am sorry, I never ment to. However, can all of you just ignore it?!--Mishae (talk) 04:09, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I am confused, what do you want me to do with AWB for you? I did some genfixes and typo corrections with AWB on about 100 articles you had edited. Is there a specific action you would like me to take? Furthermore, what are you saying "No way José" about? Ryan Vesey Review me! 04:17, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

• Long note at Mishae's page and AWB temporarily revoked. Hopefully we can move on now. Worm^TT(talk) 11:23, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Genesect

Talk:Pokémon#Genesect Swifty*^talk 23:13, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

This means nothing to me! There are ~650 Pokemon?!? That's just insane. No, I'm not getting involved in pokemon conversations. Thanks but no thanks. Worm^TT(talk) 11:28, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Barts1a

I don't know if you are still mentoring him or anything, but this is not acceptable behavior.—Ryulong (竜龙) 20:09, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Note this is on ANI at WP:ANI#Barts1a. N419BH 21:32, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Right, sorted that one - Barts blocked for 24 hours. Let's move along. Worm^TT(talk) 09:32, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	For being a great friend, a good adopter and for being understanding. Thanks Dave, for everything! Keep up the good work! Swifty*talk 20:23, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Adopter, not adoptee ;) But thank you, I appreciate that. Worm^TT(talk) 11:29, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

LOL! OOPS! You're welcome :) Swifty*^talk 05:41, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

C3 Picasso

Hi Dave, have a problem with the coding on the C3 Picasso article.

The infobox lists the height in millimetres but it hasn't converted and so it says "1,624–1,631 mm (64–64 in)". As you can see the last value is 64-64 and i'm not sure why.

Can you fix this? Thanks Jenova20 13:10, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm. Well, 1624mm is 63.9370079inch and 1631mm is 64.2125984inch. in other words... to the nearest inch, they're the same. Try changing the |0 to a |1 on the end of the convert, which should give some more accurate rounding? (to 1 decimal place) Worm^TT(talk) 13:19, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Bravo! Twice in one day =D

Thanks Dave, it's now "1,624–1,631 mm (63.9–64.2 in)", which is much better Jenova20 13:47, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

No probs! Worm^TT(talk) 13:49, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I've stumbled on something on my break and ended up watchlisting Android version history again =/

If you wouldn't mind checking in every few days it would be great and much appreciated. It appears the talk page has stagnated and the conversation died about a week ago... Thanks Jenova20 15:06, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!

	Teahouse Barnstar
	I, Sarah, hereby award you, WormTT, the Teahouse Barnstar for your valued participation in the Teahouse pilot. Thank you for your opinions, thoughts, skills, and help with the project! I look forward to your continued participation at the Teahouse and thanks for all you do to make Wikipedia the invaluable resource it is! Sarah (talk) 00:40, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Rollback

In Lord Roem's RfA, you said that rollback takes you to Special:Contribs. I may be mistaken, but recently I activated a gadget in preferences which automatically takes you to contributions, and this did not happen before. Have you perhaps got this installed? :) --Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 10:09, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

You may be right - but prior to activating the gadget, rollback did take you somewhere different didn't it? Even if it's just a page confirming the rollback is complete, my point stands. Worm^TT(talk) 10:46, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

I think so, but I frequently mistook it for one of the "the action you tried to undertake is limited to the groups - administrators" pages, so it is not as obvious as if it switches to the contribs page. Your point stands.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 12:45, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

woohoo :) Worm^TT(talk) 13:01, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Advice about an article?

Hi Worm, I have been following the story of the Doom Bar article with some interest, and it occurred to me that you or your adoptees may be able to save me some aggravation with an article I have been writing. I started writing Susana Trimarco on a whim to teach myself how to write articles before starting in on the "real" articles I wanted to write. Mostly I translated it from the Spanish article, then added a rough outline and some links as more things happened. Now I find she is being nominated for the 2013 Nobel Peace Prize, so over a period of time, I would like to bring the article to a higher quality, as there is very little written about her in English. I already know a lot of the things I have to do; rewrite everything with a more interesting tone, expand the section on her career into more sections, maybe make the awards section shorter, and maybe add some more photos (the U.S. government I think has some of her online). But this has some unique stuff about it too, particularly the Spanish language stuff--the bibliography is really hard to read--and I'm not sure I'm on the right track with the outline and formatting the notes and so forth. Also I don't know how long to make it, i.e. when to stop. I would hate to spend a lot of time on it and then find out I had to redo everything or delete a bunch of stuff or use some templates or a different format. Maybe someone can point me to some useful info, or a similar article that has been done well, or just make some comment? (Apologies in advance if the subject matter is too adult--there is a daughter missing from her family in it, and that might be a little sad for some people.) Thanks. Neotarf (talk) 18:16, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I haven't had time to review the article but will attempt later tonight. I have a fair knowledge of Spanish and have even translated some articles myself, so if you point me to the sources (while I can read Spanish, I am very poor at searching for Spanish language sources), I should be able to assist with the article. I will also attempt to look for some English language sources and see if highbeam has anything. Ryan Vesey Review me! 18:30, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Ryan.

"Wikify", yes, that's exactly what I need. I have saved those pages and will go back when I have more time and go through the layout. I know someone put some sort of box in the article that isn't working, looks like the page even explains infoboxes. I was also very interested in how you edited the quotation. I'll have to go back and look at the markup for that later too.

As far as sources, I probably have enough — there are three sections. I have a contact at a university in Argentina who follows the story and makes sure I see any important Spanish language updates. As far as my Spanish, I'm not sure I could do justice to Lorca, but my title translations should be accurate enough. They don't look particularly neat though. I looked at your Iván Guzmán de Rojas piece and noticed you didn't translate many links; it looks much neater than mine. But I also imagine the Nobel Institute in Norway shifting though the candidates and googling this article for their research, so I want the references to be as complete as possible. I'll have to start keeping my eyes open to see if anyone else has come up with a nice-looking format for that.

Thanks again; let me know if you see anything else I should work on, and if I have any trouble with the Spanish, I'll give you a shout. Neotarf (talk) 23:33, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Copyright

I didn't get any bites at WP:MCQ so I thought I'd quick ask you so I have at least one other editor in agreement. All of the images here are works of the Minnesota state government produced between 1935 and 1945. I haven't been able to find any information that describes the copyright status of an image of that sort. They may all be public domain because under "rights management" on this page it says no restrictions. If that means that it is not under copyright what would I use for a tag? I'm considering {{PD-US-not renewed}} and if that isn't applicable {{PD-Because}} but I think the first license is more correct. In addition, my article Ole J. Finstad is rather short, so I don't know if I should include all images. Would it be appropriate to have one image in the infobox and the other three in a gallery? If not, what would you use for an image, his oldest one or his youngest one? Ryan Vesey Review me! 14:19, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Ooh, now that's a toughy. I'm not great on copyright, good, but not great. The "no restrictions" though, implies to me that it's a public domain image. Wouldn't that make {{PD-US-no notice}} the best one to go for? Having said that, I'd be poking Moonriddengirl about now. Worm^TT(talk) 14:05, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Moonriddengirl has actually pointed me to Media Copyright Questions most of the time for questions about images since she is better at text. Since your idea certainly seems correct, I'll go with that. I'm surprised that nobody even replied at MCQ. Ryan Vesey Review me! 12:25, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Uploading multiple images

Hi, is it possible to upload multiple images at once Worm? Thanks Jenova20 14:22, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Up to 10 I believe. Just select multiple images when you are on the upload screen. Worm^TT(talk) 14:25, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much Jenova20 15:05, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

The Tea Leaf - Issue Four

Hi! Welcome to the fourth issue of The Tea Leaf, the official newsletter for the Teahouse!

• Teahouse pilot wraps up after 13 weeks After being piloted on English Wikipedia starting in February, the Teahouse wrapped up its pilot period on May 27, 2012. We expect this is just the beginning for the Teahouse and hope the project will continue to grow in the months to come!

Thank you and congratulations to all of the community members who participated - and continue to participate!

• What you've all been waiting for: Teahouse Pilot Report is released! We look forward to your feedback on the methodology and outcomes of this pilot project.
• ....and if a pilot report wasn't enough, the Teahouse Pilot Metrics Report is out too! Dive into the numbers and survey results to learn about the impact the Teahouse has made on English Wikipedia.
• Teahouse shows positive impact on new editor retention and engagement

• 409 new editors participated during the entire pilot period, with about 40 new editors participating in the Teahouse per week.
• Two weeks after participating, 33% of Teahouse guests are still active on Wikipedia, as opposed to 11% of a similar control group.
• New editors who participated in the Teahouse edit 10x the number of articles, make 7x more global edits, and 2x as much of their content survives on Wikipedia compared to the control group.

• Women participate in the Teahouse 28% of Teahouse participants were women, up from 9% of editors on Wikipedia in general, good news for this project which aimed to have impact on the gender gap too - but still lots to be done here!
• New opportunities await for the Teahouse in phase two as the Teahouse team and Wikipedia community examine ways to improve, scale, and sustain the project. Opportunities for future work include:

• Automating or semi-automating systems such as invites, metrics and archiving
• Experimenting with more ways for new editors to discover the Teahouse
• Building out the social and peer-to-peer aspects further, including exploring ways to make answering questions easier, creating more ways for new editors to help each other and for all participants to acknowledge each other's efforts
• Growing volunteer capacity, continuing to transfer Teahouse administration tasks to volunteers whenever possible, and looking for new ways to make maintenance and participation easier for everyone.

• Want to know how you can lend a hand at the Teahouse? Become a host! Learn more about what makes the Teahouse different than other help spaces on Wikipedia and see how you can help new editors by visiting here.
• Say hello to the new guests at the Teahouse. Take the time to welcome and get to know the latest guests at the Teahouse. Drop off some wikilove to these editors today, as being welcomed by experienced editors is really encouraging to new Wikipedians.

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My Talkpage

Hi Worm!

Something weird has happened to my talk page. A message a user has left doesn't appear on the page, although it does appear in the code. Could you have a look? Thanks.  Adam Mugliston  Talk  18:41, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

A user had used <ref/> rather than </ref> so it hid the rest of the page in the references. Ryan Vesey Review me! 18:51, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Ohhh, I didn't notice. Thanks!  Adam Mugliston  Talk  18:52, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Sure thing! Unclosed ref tags are always the first thing I look for when a page is cut off. For some reason I don't think the warning message displays if there are no closed ref tags after the initial unclosed one. Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:00, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	I thereby award you with this Admins's Barnstar for closing this long RFC. Keep up the good work. Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0 16:24, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

I add my voice to Armbrust (talk · contribs)'s. Thank you for taking the time to sift through this contentious RfC and summarizing the consensus. If you don't have WP:ANRFC watchlisted, would you consider doing so? Best, Cunard (talk) 18:09, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you both. Cunard, I do happen to have ANRFC watchlisted, but I rarely have sufficient time to close the debates - and they have to be of a topic that I can sit down and get into. Having said that, I've got half an eye on that COI RfC, might see if I can get that closed today. Worm^TT(talk) 07:25, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Glad that you closed the RfC in a rather fair manner, but there was also a topic ban against me on the subject that the closing admin was supposed to review after the RfC's conclusion.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:31, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

That was a very well-handled close. Best, ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 23:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Hello. You have a new message at The Devil's Advocate's talk page.

Highly copyrighted image

Can you take a look at this? Does the requirement that it not be used without express written consent exclude it from fair use? I would like to use it on Larry Buhler, I uploaded a picture of a statue of him on our city's courthouse square when I started editing, but I really don't think that a picture of a statue counts as replaceable fair use. Interestingly, city resolutions have shown me that until 5 years prior to his death he actually worked as manager of a liquor store. I plan to include it when I can confirm for 100% certainty that there was not another Larry Buhler living in the City of Windom at the time. Ryan Vesey Review me! 21:57, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

I should probably seek approval from the historical society whether I upload it as fair use or not. I'll attempt to swing by the historical society on my lunch break tomorrow. Ryan Vesey Review me! 21:58, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

I think you're probably right. I don't believe it excludes it from fair use, but it'd be polite to ask! Worm^TT(talk) 13:34, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

SQL query

Please feel free to update me on any information that you gather via SQL. It appears you and I share at least one common interest here, if not more. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 13:38, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll be posting it to a page in my subspace when I get round to doing it. As I mentioned, it may not be soon, I play around with these things on evenings where my other half is at work, and she doesn't have shifts coming up! However, I'll be sure to let you know when I get round to it! Worm^TT(talk) 13:42, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. There is no hurry, the problem itself didn't happen overnight either. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 13:52, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
	For taking quick action to protect your fellow editors.. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:25, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Obviously could have been quicker if you spotted it ;) Worm^TT(talk) 11:27, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

IPs address was Manchester based, probably a scab who knows them both. I didn't see the unpleasant messages so wouldn't know though..♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:11, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Help!

Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire and Pokémon Gold and Silver someone keeps removing the images of Pokémon Crystal and Pokémon Emerald based on WP:VGBOX and I do not agree with him because there is no main page for either game and there is a significant difference to each cover as they depict a different Pokémon on each cover and it identifies the section as the main information page for the sister games. Swifty*^talk 22:29, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

To butt in since Worm has expressed displeasure with getting involved in Pokemon articles...Your analysis/argument appears to support the inclusion of the image in this case, although there are exceptions. You should be fine to add the image in the way you describe and in my understanding of that policy. Hope that helps Jenova20 12:55, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

There is also the argument that a few words could describe the cover without the picture though and that might be the other persons argument. Still, since this is an encyclopedia - some people (myself partially included) may not know which pokemon is which and the cover would then be very useful to include. Thanks Jenova20 12:58, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

LOL at me having "displeasure" ;) I'm afraid I'm a touch busy today, I've got lots of other people to reply to on my page. Jenova's advice is good though. Worm^TT(talk) 13:14, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

• Two things. First - Swifty, you are Editwarring. I suggest you do not add the image again as you are likely to be blocked if you keep reverting. Second - while the caution on editwarring also applies to Hula Hup, they are correct to remove the image. Wikipedia:VGBOX#Cover_art and indeed the entire non free image policy is clear that cover art for games and similar items can only be used in the infobox, unless the cover itself is the subject of sourced commentary in the body of the article. Wikipedia articles are not to be used as galleries of copyright material. Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:16, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

  ... Ah... Now, this is what happens when I don't have time to look into a situation. I expect Elen is bang on, and her advice should certainly be followed. Worm^TT(talk) 13:26, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh thank you very much Dave =] I do try. Thanks Jenova20 13:30, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

No worries. It's a complex area, and sometimes the policies turn out to be not what you might have expected. Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:02, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I have not been on in a few days and personally I agree with Jenova20 and I was trying to prevent an edit war and I did not break the 3RR rule which then makes it an edit war Elen. Swifty*^talk 15:37, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

No, Swifty, that's not how it works. An edit war is any situation where editors are reverting each other without discussion. 3RR is a bright line which you must never cross, but I hold myself to 1RR, I never see the need of reverting more than once, and I'd like to see a situation where it's necessary. This situation wasn't one. Now, as for Jenova's point of view, he's given a good explanation above, but having looked into the situation a little further he and I agree that the images shouldn't be there (I think Jenova will be alright with me saying that). Simply, just as the sapphire version isn't shown, the emerald version need not be shown, all three are very similar games and one cover is sufficient to illustrate that. Our criteria for non-free content says that we should use as little as possible and the article is just as good without the image. I am saddened to see that you never posted on the talk page to stimulate discussion on the matter. Worm^TT(talk) 16:17, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I never thought it necessary, Dave. Plus I thought the rules were pretty clear on there and it makes no mention of sister/companion versions on the Wikipedia:VGBOX#Cover art and my understanding of it seems to be different as the covers are different and there is no article for either Crystal OR Emerald so there has to be some exceptions somewhere. Swifty*^talk 16:52, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

The "rules", which are based the criteria, state that there should be only one no free cover image per article, regardless of regional differences. Now, the Emerald game is pretty much the same as the ruby and sapphire games. Admittedly it's enhanced, but it's the same basic game. Worm^TT(talk) 17:03, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Well I am not trying to argue this but it does not make much sense to me that each sister/companion does not have it's own page. Pokémon Platinum and Pokémon Yellow does and contain their cover arts but Emerald and Crystal do not. So I figured that was the exception to the criteria to show the separate topics but I give up whatever. As I said and pointed out elsewhere the statement:

Cover images can only be used in the body of the article if there is significant commentary on the specific cover itself.

Apparently this means something different to me then to everyone else. As I said I could careless anymore there needs to be exceptions to criteria/rules on subjects like sister/companion versions when it comes to these games as they are separate from each other. I do not argue the second cover for say Sapphire but Nintendo/GameFreak or whoever releases these do not consider Crystal or Emerald as Gold/Silver or Ruby/Sapphire. I am not getting hostile just tired of talking about this. LOL! Swifty*^talk 17:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Am I wrong for removing red links?

Cause someone just got onto me over this and it is the stupidest thing in the word cause I removed a non-existing wikilink and keeps reverting me for it. Swifty*^talk 18:23, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Red links are appropriate if an article should be created on the topic. There is also no requirement that a Good Article doesn't contain red links. It appears that you have discovered Wikipedia:Red link and you should follow the guideline there. Ryan Vesey Review me! 06:37, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Looks like a simple one - if the subject is notable then create a red link and eventually it will turn blue. If its not notable then delete the red link after making sure that it isn't notable.

Bottom line, if someone disagrees then discuss it before making more changes. Thanks Jenova20 10:32, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Two very good pieces of advice there, thank you both. Red Links are the life blood of article creation (or should be, the real life blood is COI, but let's not whinge about that too much here). The idea is that if the subject is notable, it'll be a red link, and then someone who knows about that clicks and sees that there's no page, so they write one. I believe research has been done into how many red links create pages... but I can't remember for certain. In general, red links are good! (The best way to remove them, is to create the article at the other end ;) )Worm^TT(talk) 07:49, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

... or, sometimes, to search around and find the existing article which is showing as a red link because the link has a spelling mistake, or uses a slightly different form of name from which we need a redirect, or the topic is a major subtopic of an article (redirect again), etc. PamD 08:22, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Who am I to disagree with a woman who loves redirects ;) Worm^TT(talk) 08:25, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Swamilive

Can't you block him? He's now vandalising my talk page and other articles. Pdfpdf (talk) 15:31, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

• http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Major_general&curid=201917&diff=498192606&oldid=498192576
• http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pdfpdf&curid=11301848&diff=498192335&oldid=498192310
• http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Worm_That_Turned&action=edit&undoafter=498192846&undo=498192951

Sorry, was just heading off. thought I'd protect the brigadeer page before I left. Would have been better to put in a request for page protection, or an AIV. Worm^TT(talk) 12:07, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Just a thought

While I was mowing earlier today, I was thinking that my block is unlikely to present as big of an issue as I used to expect whenever I get around to RfA. What do you think? I certainly still feel like being open about it, but I think that a majority of editors who frequent WP:RfA are willing to evaluate edits after a certain point. Ryan Vesey Review me! 01:13, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Obviously don't hide it, but I very much doubt it will have any effect on an RfA. You'd only been here a little while at the time, and you've got many thousands of edits since. Worm^TT(talk) 12:18, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Liman irrigation system

The article needs a bit of work, but I believe it can be approved. That being said, the article is presented as a landform and Liman (landform) already exists (do you see a purpose for the redirect I undid? It may have been poorly sourced but creating a redirect like that with an edit summary "update" is a bit disingenuous). The current article about the landform presents an entirely different topic from the AFC. Do you think creating it at Liman (desert) or Liman (Negev) would be appropriate? Ryan Vesey Review me! 14:38, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure that they are different topics. The liman under landform imply that they're naturally formed by the sea or by rivers (similar to the Doom Bar in fact!) but the irrigation system seems to be talking about instances in Isreal where they are manmade for irrigation purposes. I'd suggest merging the new material into that article. As for the redirect, I agree with your undo - it appears that it's a very specific type of estuary, or bay - and it's not the estuary that the's the main pint. Worm^TT(talk) 14:47, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

If they aren't unrelated the Liman (landform) article is incorrect. It appears to me after reading it that they only exist in eastern Europe. In addition the images at kkl.org appear different from the images at Liman (landform). It may be that Liman (landform) is too narrow in its scope and should be expanded. Perhaps a section could be created on deserts, as it appears that the difference appears in the environment. The content of the section could be easily rewritten as:

"In Deserts, particularly the Negev in Israel, a liman is an artificial earthen construction used to collect floodwater by damming a wadi. The runoff water is slowed down by the dam, thus flooding a small area and allowing the water to infiltrate into the soil. This way, a small groves of trees can be sustained in the desert.

As opposed to oases, there is no agriculture in limans. The JNF-KKL has been funding the construction of limans. Suitable tree species are tamarind, acacia, prosopis, pistachio, eucalyptus, date palms and carobs."

What do you think? I could add that section as a proxy, giving credit to the author in an edit summary (and sourcing the content inline) or I could recommend that the editor merge the information in my decline. Ryan Vesey Review me! 14:55, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd personally recommend the other editor merge it in, offering to help if he needs it. That way, you could suggest that the landform article might need updating, as it appears incorrect based on the information you've provided and you thought he might be able to help there too. Worm^TT(talk) 14:59, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Will do, thanks for the advice. Ryan Vesey Review me! 15:08, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

On another note, one of the sad aspects of AFC. This editor created an article 3 days before it was created in the article space. Ryan Vesey Review me! 14:48, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Closing the verifiability RfC

Hello WormTT, this is Mr. Stradivarius from the MedCab mediation about the verifiability policy. We're just about to start a new RfC about the policy lede, and the participants seem quite keen that you should be one of the admins that closes it, seeing as you helped close the last RfC on the issue a while back. I know that was a very lengthy discussion to sort through and to judge consensus on, but would you be willing to do it again? Let me know if you would, or whether you would rather do something else. Also, as I'm not sure that the mediation participants really have the right to decide how the RfC gets closed, I'm just about to start a discussion about it at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Question about closing the verifiability RfC to get the community's view. You're mentioned there, so you might want to comment if you feel so inclined. And if you need any clarification on any of this, just let me know. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 14:28, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't remember expressing a strong view on the subject, so I wouldn't have a problem helping out with another close. Just drop me a line if that's what people want. Worm^TT(talk) 14:30, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thank you! Hopefully this time we won't have too many more hundreds of comments than last time. ;) I'll let you know how things go at the mediation. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 14:41, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, but it looks like the plan wasn't as popular with the mediation particpants as I thought it was. Instead, the general consensus now seems to be that we should find three admins who have never had any involvement with the verifiability issue. So I've started a call for uninvolved admins over at the administrators' noticeboard to see if we actually do have any other admins out there who are still uninvolved. Sorry for the miscommunication here, and thanks for the offer to close - it is much appreciated. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 15:26, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Not a problem, I don't mind not wading through it all again! Good luck with finding uninvolved closers. Let me know if things change :) Worm^TT(talk) 16:26, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Original research

I assume that it would be original research to say that Windom's 1983 charter changed the designation from alderperson to council member. I have information that shows that prior to then, they were referred to as aldermen or alderpersons and after the charter passed they were referred to as councilmembers. Do you think an effective way of writing this would be "Prior to the introduction of a new city charter on June 20, 1984, council members in Windom were referred to as alderpersons."? Ryan Vesey Review me! 17:03, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

References

That's probably the best solution. It is original research, but I believe it's within acceptable bounds. Might be a good idea if you could try and get the charter though, see if it mentions aldermen! Worm^TT(talk) 09:27, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't entirely sure whether to call my model original research or not. It sort of implies original research; however, it presents the exact material I had to the reader to form their own opinion. I'm sure I'll be able to find the charter somewhere around city hall. Ryan Vesey Review me! 12:02, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

You are, but at the same time you are presenting the facts in a manner that is not provided from the sources and implying a fact based on that. It's acceptable in my opinion, but it is synthesis. It may be that the charter doesn't mention anything about it, and that's the best we'll get. Worm^TT(talk) 12:04, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll add it for now then, hopefully I can find the charter. Ryan Vesey Review me! 14:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

On second thought, I could add the information to the Windom, Minnesota website, and then reference it from there, but that gets to be a bit unethical. That being said, I can't deny that there is some WP:CIRCULAR sourcing going on. I was given Windom, Minnesota as one of my sources for an update on the town. (Didn't use it, but who knows what happened 20 years ago) Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:43, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

On third thought, I think its safe to say that Wikipedia was not used as a source for information in Windom 20 years ago Facepalm. Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:44, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!

Hello Worm, Thanks for answering my followup question and for your words of support. :D I very much appreciate the offer you've made that I can contact you about this other situation. I still haven't decided whether to pursue it. Your offer that I can email you about it, is especially appreciated, Worm. It's very generous of you. I may well take you up on that at some point in the not too distant future, if I decide to pursue the situation. Cheers. --Charlie Inks (talk) 14:34, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Answered at your talk. Worm^TT(talk) 14:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that move for me earlier today, Worm. Also, mouchos gracias for your kind wishes, yeah? Cheers + bye for now,

--Charlie Inks (talk) 01:11, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request

Think I could get some expedited shipping on an edit request? There was a minor, well major depending on how you look at it, issue with my first request that I resolved. Ryan Vesey Review me! 13:33, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Looks like I was beaten to it. Worm^TT(talk) 13:37, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

That was insanely close, the admin must've been in the process as I typed the message. Ryan Vesey Review me! 13:39, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

RFA2012

I knew it would happen sometime, but Egg Centric finally created Wikipedia:RFA2012. I don't know if last year burned you out, but you may want to take part. I hope to convert it to a project type format. I'm not sure how similar it will become to RFA reform 2011; it looks like this will be a bit more on the radical side. Ryan Vesey Review me! 20:56, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll take part, but I don't think I should be too big a figure in it... I didn't do a good enough job last year ;) Worm^TT(talk) 09:26, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Request a nomination was your doing, and the research you did will be useful for years. Ryan Vesey Review me! 12:16, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, certainly I helped! But the proposal I was focussed on (Minimum Requirements) got superceded by a single edit to a group notice and I didn't push any others. We didn't really get any "reform" out of RfA reform 2011, just improvements. Worm^TT(talk) 12:20, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, I would support reform, but I think improvements are going to be the way it is changed. The system isn't perfect, but it's working. It is much easier to slightly improve it and hope it gets better over time. Ryan Vesey Review me! 12:41, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

There was an interesting piece in the Signpost this week about RfA and its troubles, have you read it yet? Rcsprinter (state) 18:41, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Yep, I'm in it! Worm^TT(talk) 18:43, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I really need to get around to reading it then. Ryan Vesey Review me! 18:48, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

So, I finally read/skimmed the article, and there's a point that I have had in my head for a while and interestingly you made the same one. My point was "adminship isn't a big deal, but RfA is". I also have similar views to you in that it isn't "broken". The process works. Ryan Vesey Review me! 15:21, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm half working on an essay in my userspace if you're bored and interested in my views... User:Worm That Turned/Rant On/Adminship Worm^TT(talk) 15:23, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism

Could you protect my user-page? Thanks :) --Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 13:43, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Full or semi? Worm^TT(talk) 13:46, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, it has been vandalised by some auto-confirmed users, so fully, and User:Gilderien/Userpage semi. Ideally, I'd have it editable by sysops only and myself, but as that would require it being a .js page, I came up with something else, which will still let me edit it. :) --Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 13:49, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

You've got quite a setup, even when you finally find the transcluded text it's full of templates. That being said, I am of the opinion that it encourages vandalism, at least for any editors who really understand wikimarkup. Ryan Vesey Review me! 13:48, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Yep. And it took me less than 30 seconds to find your userpage ;) I don't generally see the point. Worm^TT(talk) 13:53, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

If I make it harder to find, the chances are greater that a vandal will give up.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 13:56, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

All done. Worm^TT(talk) 13:57, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

If I may ask...why don't you make it a .js page? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:28, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

A couple of reasons - firstly, it would still be really easy to see what pages are transcluded, and practically all of it is. Secondly, I don't know what effects that would have, save that it might try and execute it, and really mess up the universal coloured header I'm using, and thirdly, all my signatures point to my current user page, as would many templates, RfAs, RfAr, etc. (not that I'm planning on having either of them any time soon, just the first examples that sprung to mind)--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 14:39, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

A .js page transcludes just like any other page; what I was suggesting is turning User:Gilderien/Userpage into User:Gilderien/Userpage.js, and then transcluding that on the fully-protected User:Gilderien. It won't try to execute anything (certainly not on User:Gilderien; it might when previewing Userpage.js, but even then, it's no big deal, because it'll just error out). Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:52, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Ah, no, when I wrote that comment, at the top, I was referring to turning User:Gilderien into a .js page, but instead decided to make it a protected transclusion, which would then be un-necessarily obfuscated to make it harder to find the original page (it transcludes twice). This way, an experienced editor, who can discern what is going on, can edit my page. It's kind of like a qualifier for those who can edit it.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 14:58, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Don't you think this is a bit much for a bit of vandalism Gilderien? Thanks Jenova20 15:14, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I welcome vandalism on my userpage, it generally means I've been doing a good job stopping vandalism elsewhere (although I haven't done that in a while). Ryan Vesey Review me! 15:16, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I only got it twice and the first was someone who stuck a picture of Chairman Mao on my userpage along with a dimwitted accusation.

I still see it as someone with no logic to put into their argument and just hitting out in an immature way. Thanks and have a nice day all Jenova20 15:19, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, yes, some may see it as a bit excessive, but in the past I haven't noticed vandalism on my user page for a while, if only because I don't go on it unless I need to, so I would rather have it protected as an over-reaction than leave it alone as an under-reaction.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 15:33, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

This is probably something Worm won't have troble with...who would vandalize a page with more than 100 watchers? =P Have a nice weekend all Jenova20 17:12, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

...yes, one of the dis-advantages of this method is that any talk page watchers I may have won't see edits to the page my userpage is transcluded to, but I think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages in this case.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 17:16, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

And if the vandals find the new page? Some things are inevitible. The page protections Worm sorted should be enough to handle this Gilderien Jenova20 18:08, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I know, which is why I made the source code un-necessarily obfuscated so it is harder for a random vandal to find.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 18:30, 22 June 2012 (UTC)