User talk:Vassyana

Word of the day
Treeware. noun. /'triwɛər/.
An antediluvian method of publishing information on a portable medium created from processed arboreal macerate, often with decorative covers glossed by petrochemical solids.

"Reginald went to the athenaeum to peruse treeware with the assistance of an informatics professional."

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I'm boring today. Vassyana (talk) 01:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

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Help me out.

• Take a look over History of early Christianity and Apostolic Age and provide some feedback on the talk pages. Thanks! 06:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
• Contribute some thoughts and feedback to m:Dispute resolution analysis group.

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• What I did today archives: 1
• Talk Page archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Alice Bailey

Vassyana, a new editor of the Alice Bailey article has initiated an RfC [1]. Would you be willing to look at the discussion and comment? Malcolm Schosha (talk) 18:29, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Osho

Hi Vassyana, User:Jossi mentioned the other day that you and he had done some work on getting Laozi to GA. I also saw your earlier GA review of Prem Rawat, an article that I've been spending time on recently. I (self-)nominated Osho for GA yesterday and wondered if you might be interested in doing the review, or have a read-through and provide improvement suggestions? Cheers, Jayen466 21:58, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

You are too kind

Thank you so much, your thoughts are most appreciated. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:22, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

On FAs (reply)

I've been worrying away at it for some time. I don't have any particularly helpful ideas yet, unfortunately.

What I have come to conclude is that our current method - "rewarding" individual editors with some form of status for "taking an article" to FA - is part of the problem; with the best will in the world, having a particular individual or like-minded group of individuals working intensively on an article for a fortnight doesn't aid in ensuring the use of a multitude of perspectives and sources. We're all amateurs, but we aim for results superior to individual professionals through the aggregation of perspectives; the way that FAs are managed seems to work at cross-purposes with that basic mechanism. I also fear that MoS-obsession (I stopped observing FACs a few years ago after one particularly vicious and borderline-incomprehensible squabble over the exact form of citation templates, or sub-headings, or something of that sort) tends to obscure actual questions of content.

If there's a solution, it probably would incorporate artificially elongating the process. Relata refero (talk) 18:26, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm off to do a GA review now, in the hope that it will give me some ideas. Relata refero (talk) 18:28, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

RfArb

I have not named you as a party, as you have not been involved recently, but given your early intervention with the GA review, you may want to state your comments at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Prem Rawat. If you think that you rather be named as a party, please let me know. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 23:04, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

It seems as though ArbCom will accept the case. I will present evidence and take limited participation in the discussion when the case is opened, after I have some time to collect my thoughts and some diffs. Cheers! Vassyana (talk) 18:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

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Blocking consensus, analysis

Here's a big image made by User:Kevin Murray:

• Sample of old new and hybrid CCC Consensus flowcharts.

The normal consensus process is on Chart 1. Some people, however, use a modified process, at Chart 2. (Chart 3 and Chart 4 may not be relevant today.)

Basically, Chart 2 introduces just 2 really new concepts. The first is that large changes should be discussed first; the second is that it introduces a minor bias towards the status quo: "changes should not happen too quickly". If you say it in english, that sounds fairly harmless, right? People think it is a good trade off between efficiency and "safety".

But a closer look reveals that that is not the case! If you actually plot the flowchart, you find that when you modify process thusly, you can get stuck in an infinite loop. Consensus might never be reached. (Flowchart 2 has an infinite loop at "is the result accepted"->"should process continue"->"discuss at talk, 3O, VP, RFC"--->"is the result accepted" )

In reality such loops are not really infinite, as we are dealing with human beings here. At some point in time, one or more parties get worn down and burn out, and just walk away. :-/

Another interesting thing is that in chart 2, several meatball:ExpandScope methods are used ... in the middle of that same loop.

Sure. I think that one or two steps of ExpandScope once in a while might be a part of your normal everyday meatball:HealthyConflict.

But repeated scope expansion in a tight infinite loop? That sounds like a recipe for disaster. And guess what? Interestingly, that seems to be the pattern you see in all sorts of high profile wikidrama. :-)

So by simple systems analysis using flowcharts, we can already predict that certain simple, reasonable looking changes to the consensus process might actually be responsible for a large number of the unhealthy conflict interactions between established users.

--Kim Bruning (talk) 18:45, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Nifty! Some food for thought there. It does some to indicate where some of the logjam comes into play. As a thought, the "standard process" can be used as an excuse to play mum and pop (venue shopping), which can certainly add to a decline of good faith and to a growth of acrimony. This does not fully account for intransigence and obstruction. However, it certainly seems to point towards some tools which accommodate such ends. Definitely something for the mind to chew. Cheers! Vassyana (talk) 19:03, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Indian Religions

Even after agreeing to consensus, User:IAF is back to his usual mode violating the consensus and the WP:3RR here. --Anish (talk) 16:48, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Coppertwig and "dab" seem to be handling the situation just fine. I will keep an eye on the article to head off any future edit wars, but the editing conflict seems over for now and others are handling the situation. Vassyana (talk) 18:15, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks... as far as the article is concerned, Dab handled it well. But no one is doing anything about the abusive language of IAF "Jackass, stupid edits et all". Check this out. --Anish (talk) 14:35, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Informal mediation on Bosnian War article

Hello, I see that you have protected the Bosnian War article. I have suggested some form of dispute resolution[2] to User:Nirvana77, which he seems to agree with[3]. I'm not sure whether informal mediation would work here or if we should go directly to ArbCom. What is your suggestion? RegardsOsli73 (talk) 09:34, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

A good first step would be to request a third opinion to get an outside view on the matter. You should also ask for some outside opinions and expert assistance from the military history WikiProject. It's an active project with a solid reputation for common sense and high quality. A neutral outside opinion and some participation from members of a well-reputed relevent project can help bring a balance of perspective and put the article on track. Cheers! Vassyana (talk) 01:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

RfC

I've started drafting a user conduct RfC that you might be interested in here. There's a lot of evidence to locate, sift through and present, so I think it will take awhile to get it put together. If you'd like to participate, please feel free to do so. Cla68 (talk) 06:44, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Right, now that is ambitious. Relata refero (talk) 19:32, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Request

Could you do me a favour and look over Two Witnesses? My cruft-alert is beeping like mad, but I think I need some advice with this one. Obviously the reference and the related mythologising and interpretation is notable and encyclopaedic, but am I wrong in supposing that this particular article contains material more suited for many, many others (Christian Zionism, America-Israel relations, Millenarianism, Postdispensationalism (?)), and a large amount of OR-through-sythesis? It has the classic look of the latter, with lots and lots of references, except for the crucial points. Relata refero (talk) 19:30, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I will look over it a bit more this evening, as I am currently a bit busy IRL. However, taking a brief look, I immediately got a "red flag" impression from the lede being comprised mostly of a large quote from the Bible (as opposed to following WP:LEAD). Vassyana (talk) 19:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I've had the time to read over it and it's most assuredly a SYN'd up mess. Outside of taking the ax to it and starting over again from a stub (Gordian style editing), I'm not sure how to untangle the clusterfun. I'll read over it again and check some sources on Questia and see what I can do to help reform that poor article. Cheers! Vassyana (talk) 11:14, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Question

Hi Vassyana,

At Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Prem Rawat/Evidence#Jossi's alleged COI you presented an analysis of evidence presented in Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard/Archive 22#Jossi COI diffs.

Since this is primarily Analysis of evidence I wonder how you would feel about moving that analysis to Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Prem Rawat/Workshop#Analysis of evidence?

Anyway, I'd like to comment on the analysis you presented, but don't want to burden the /Evidence page with that: the section on the /Workshop page seems more appropriate for me to relate to the analysis. How do you think? --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:23, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I would tend to think the evidence page is the appropriate place. The COIN thread was not raised as other parts of evidence (that I noticed). The presentation and analysis of previous discussions is usually typical ArbCom evidence. To my knowledge, replies to evidence (barring long discussions) are usually placed on the evidence page. However, I would welcome the input of a clerk or arbitrator regarding the proper placement of my comments and diffs. Vassyana (talk) 12:42, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Tx for the reply.

I'd welcome clerk/arbitrator input too, since I've little experience what the primary intended goals are of a "Analysis of evidence" section on a /Workshop page, compared to presenting evidence on the /Evidence page. I used the /Workshop section extensively now - no idea whether I'm heading the right way.

For me, the question was primarily: where do I present my views on the analysis you presented? Unless instructed otherwise, I'd prefer the /Workshop section, but thought I let you know first.

I'll mention this on the /Workshop talk page. --Francis Schonken (talk) 13:13, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Perfectly understandable. If an arb or clerk thinks my statements should be moved, that's quite alright. I am admittedly not as familiar with arbitration as other steps in the dispute resolution process, so it's entirely possible I placed the links and my comments in the wrong place. Please let me know if you receive feedback from a clerk or the arbs. Cheers! Vassyana (talk) 16:40, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Prem Rawat assessment of sources

Feel free to add your evidence, but please take into account that I still think that you were nearly completely wrong in your assessment of the sources (Reender Kranenborg, Jan van der Lans, and Saul Levine). I have some sources to back up my opinion about them. I have to admit though that you were right that the "sermonizing" by Kranenborg (which was in a seperated section in Kranenborg's book) did not belong in the article Prem Rawat. Andries (talk) 17:39, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

You are free to disagree and it's quite possible that I was wrong. :) Is there a particular place where the sources are being reviewed? Vassyana (talk) 17:57, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

List of Alpha Phi Alpha brothers and Alpha Phi Alpha

Might want to semi these articles because banned user Mykungfu is constantly hitting these with new socks here, here, here, with the argument that Alpha Phi Alpha is the "oldest" living fraternity. Also, he uses proxies, too. That's why CU evidence is inconclusive in targeting him down. The reason that I am asking you to do this is 1.) I am not an admin 2.) I used to ask Mr. Darcy to take care of this, but he retired. :-( miranda 16:38, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Assistance

Thanks. Gwandoya requested and IP check, and confirmed that BicMacDad18 was a possible sockpuppet of banned user and prolific puppeteer User:EverybodyHatesChris. Thanks anyway. Nightscream (talk) 01:14, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what else there really is to do seeing that he's been checkusered here. I'm not sure if a "Possible" constitutes a ban. But thank you. Gwandoya ^Talk 01:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem. I sincerely apologize for my delay in responding. I hadn't checked on the MedCab talk page for a few days. My recommendation would be to raise the issue at WP:ANI or WP:SSP. Cheers! Vassyana (talk) 01:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd love your assistance. Thanks so much for your time. I'd also like to note that the issue Gwandoya has brought in our argument (which is the issue she's brought up above and twice now on my user talk page) on the MedCab page is really an irrelevant one to that argument. The debate on that page has to do with an edit on the Coral Smith article. I am the one who brought the problem to MedCab because I didn't want to edit war with Nightscream over it, and I even titled the problem "Coral Smith article". If you see things differently, my apologies and I certainly thank for your willingness to help in this issue. BicMacDad18 (talk) 02:45, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Kim Bruning said I might enjoy chatting with you (I know very little about the mediation cabal). Cheers! Gwen Gale (talk) 05:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

unprotect Bosnian war article

Hi, Nirvana77 and I seem to have worked out our differences on the Bosnian War article (see talk page). Could you please unprotect it? CheersOsli73 (talk) 07:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. Please be cautious in reverting and generous in discussing. Cheers! Vassyana (talk) 08:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank's. While you're at it, could you please check User:Texwiller071, suspiciously like User:Grandy Grandy.Osli73 (talk) 08:11, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter

BetacommandBot (talk) 00:07, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Brainstorming

Your thinking is very close to my own - I think it very unlikely that a set of guidelines designed to write about advanced physics topics will work well for articles on the other end of the encyclopedia, and with two million articles there are an awful lot of other ends. To my mind, the original design of Wikipedia solved this problem organically - large discretion was granted to whomever was working on an article. They were told "cite sources, avoid original research, be NPOV, and be nice to each other," and turned loose. If their work sucked, well, more people would surely be along to fix it. Thus the overall structure and set of rules was broken up.

Over time, of course, people noticed trends of problems and we accumulated some rules that were meant to apply to all articles. And that was fine and needed - AfD is a great example of a rules-based editorial procedure that comes from the top instead of from the bottom. The problem is that this trend of top-down solutions has continued to snowball. Which, anyone who studies online communities would have guessed, so it's no surprise.

And there's no way to stop that - top-down solutions will continue to, often messily, be applied. The trick, to my mind, is to treat bottom-up thinking as a viral property of the system (which is how it originally worked - the wiki so naturally pushed bottom-up thinking that people's top-down instincts got effectively countered). That is, one pushes top-down rules that require bottom-up thinking to implement. Which is why, whenever I talk about policy, I argue for phrasings that include hedges, phrases like "common sense and local consensus must prevail," admissions that decisions are difficult and complex, etc - to jam the top-down policies up and force bottom-up processes to fill in the gaps.

But this involves a heavy measure of fighting against human nature, as top-down policies are much more comforting and much easier. Phil Sandifer (talk) 03:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Moving articles

Is there a reason why the article Madrid (autonomous community) cannot be renamed/moved? Since the official name of the community is simply "Community of Madrid" (Comunidad de Madrid), I have proposed that the article be renamed in order to avoid the unnecessary parentheses. Since very few users edit that article I have received no response, so after waiting 10+ days, I decided to do it myself. However, I don't get the option of moving the article. Is it semi-protected in some way? Can it be unprotected? --the Dúnadan 22:03, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/212.159.16.175

I'm wondering how he got off (pardon the pun) without so much as a warning? xenocidic (talk) 13:32, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

The IP Is blocked. Vassyana (talk) 16:38, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Gotcha. I was curious because I didn't see the usual block tag on his talk page. I'll check the block list next time. xenocidic (talk) 16:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

for reverting that BS on my utalk. 21655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 23:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the smile. :) Vassyana (talk) 02:50, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

NOR discussion

Continuing from: Wikipedia talk:No original research#Actual proposed change. Both of your responses were intelligent and helpful. I would like to discuss this further, but I don't want to clutter up the policy page (at least until the discussion is more refined :-P). My main question remains. How would you distinguish between legitimate coverage of the "gap" and fluff or nonsense in the absence of editorial or professional authority? That is the question that needs to be answered, because it is the principal question that will arise in relation to policy and good practice. To clarify the "gap", how much obvious or nuts & bolts information is missing from textbooks and other introductory materials? Vassyana (talk) 23:12, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

My inclination remains to say that distinguishing that gap across two and a half million articles is an impossible task for a policy page, and to leave it, as we are obliged to by the foundation, to the wiki process - that is, to assume that, when directed to avoid novel synthesis, the given community of editors working on any given article will, in fact, be able to do so without a machine-readable guide to doing so. Phil Sandifer (talk) 14:05, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

• The rules should not focus on examples, hard limits and mechanical benchmarks. The rules should focus on simply explaining what is meant by the principle. For example, the rules should answer: "What does X-POLICYNAME mean? What is Y-POLICYNAME?" They should not answer: "How do I apply X to Y subject? What examples are there of POLICY-Z?" The latter questions should be asked in article talk pages, RfC, and other wiki/community-based avenues. Essentially, rules are intended to give direction with common sense and consensus determining its individual application.

Would you agree with that statement? Vassyana (talk) 03:52, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I would agree with that. One difficulty that comes up on the policy talk pages is that each editor has a different genre of articles in mind, and so there is a lot of misinterpretation between editors. That can make it hard to talk about general principles.

I have been thinking about your original question above, and I hope to be able to write a response soon. I need time to work out some details for myself first, and think of just the right examples to avoid leading the conversation into dead ends. — Carl (CBM · talk) 04:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks for putting thought into this. Vassyana (talk) 04:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that summary is very much on target. Phil Sandifer (talk) 20:00, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Cervical cap

To start out with, I really appreciate your time in offering a third opinion on the merge proposal at cervical cap. Unfortunately, I do not believe your response supported either side of the dispute; that a definition needs to be supported by reliable sources is agreed on by both parties. I believe I have provided reliable sources that some medical professionals refer to this device as a cervical cap. The other editor has provided reliable sources that, at the time Prentif was the only cervical cap available in the United States, United States sources used the term "cervical cap" to refer only to Prentif; because of the recent introduction of FemCap to the U.S., and to avoid U.S.-centrism in the cervical cap article, I do not believe these sources are reliable for the current definition of the term "cervical cap". I was hoping from the third opinion to receive a judgment of which sources were reliable to support which definition.

Also, the issues coming up on that talk page are becoming much more complicated than just the merge. While I would be happy to see your further involvement in the discussion if you are interested, I am planning on posting a notice at the doctor's mess to get a couple more people involved on the cervical cap article. Hopefully that will help a consensus to form instead of the one vs. one situation currently there. Thank you again for taking the time to read the disagreement and offer your opinion. Lyrl^Talk _C 23:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Jihad watch MedCab

Hi, just checking that you are still working on mediating this case. Another editor User:Bless sins has now indicated their willingness to join. Whilst there is no great urgency, I do feel a desire to see this mediation progressing. Hoping you are still committed to being mediator. SmithBlue (talk) 03:25, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

My apologies for any perceived delay. I am taking a little time to familiarize myself with the subject and the article's history. One thing I immediately noticed was a long quiet period on the talk page, and then a very quick movement into dispute resolution. I will be posting to the article talk tonight or tomorrow afternoon. Thanks for understanding. Cheers! Vassyana (talk) 03:41, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Bosnian War

Hi Vassyana. I've seen you protected and unprotected Bosnian War article. Can you protect it again or allow just registered users to edit, because, there is an anon 79.143.164.56 from Republika Srpska who deleted ([4], [5]) a good portion of the article and drastically changed some sentences not supported by the sources presented in the article which can lead to false conclusion. Šljkljkž (talk) 09:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

WP:Lectures

#wikipedia-en-lectures @ 15:00 UTC today, yay. Xavexgoem (talk) 14:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

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Barnstar time

This may not be exactly what you wanted, but your handling of 10 Third opinion requests tonight deserves recognition. Please feel free to replace it with the barnstar of your choice, or remove my rave at will :-)
  — Athaenara ✉ 08:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I like the juggler better than a barnstar. :) Thanks for the kinds words! You should know though, I didn't answer all ten, as a couple had been answered but not removed from the list. Vassyana (talk) 08:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome, glad you liked it, happy I got it right. — Athaenara ✉ 09:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

answer

I have posted a reply to your third opinion, and pointed out that the reference-note you criticised was originally added by Peter Jackson. It is a quote from an interview for a magazine. Indeed not very credibly. The other notes you didn't comments on are from review articles and textbooks. Those were deleted by Peter Jackson. Greetings, Sacca 10:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

please revert

please revert your removal of my reinsertion at Chiropractic? I am a neutral observer to the page, I came and reviewed the section, saw it was NPOV, and well sourced. There was no valid reason to remove that content. Thus, my revert was reverting vandalism, something that is OK to do when a page is protected. ⇒SWATJester ^{Son of the Defender} 16:58, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Because it is the very content in dispute in the edit war,[6] I am not comforting with restoring your edit. However, I'm quite flexible and fallible, so if another admin feels it is appropriate, they should feel free to correct my error. Vassyana (talk) 17:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Vassyana, I completely agree with Swatjester here and I'm actually the main contributor to the section involved. The edit summaries by suggesting an NPOV violation is bogus. To revert Swatjester, who like he said, was a neutral observer, was more fanning of the flames. The section is well referenced and is NPOV. There is some obstruction going on by some editors, who incidentally happen to be medical doctors, who do not want to see a thorough, well-sourced and long overdue section of chiropractic scope of practice. CorticoSpinal (talk) 17:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate your point, but the article was protected for that very dispute. I do believe it's protected in the Wrong Version. However, making edits under protection to endorse one version or another is certainly more inflammatory (in my opinion) than reverting back to the protected version. I'm sorry if you disagree, but hope you understand. Cheers! Vassyana (talk) 17:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Chiropractic#Scope_of_practice_comments_by_Eubulides Read this section. There are problems with the current text. It is not NPOV and it is not well sourced. QuackGuru (talk) 18:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Quack, I cannot help but feel you are wikistalking me now. Please, don't do this. Baiting me at my talk page isn't helpful either. To insinuate that its not NPOV and poorly sourced is lamentable and proves my point that you'll do and say almost anything to obstruct. We had 4 editors agree the section was good, Eubulides triggers a revert war and goes onto making a cherry picked list of very minor grievances that could have easily been added or corrected in the article without all the ensuing drama. It's simply more of the same [[WP:TEND|tendentious] and obstructionist editing by medical physicians on the chiropractic page. CorticoSpinal (talk) 21:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

This is also a content dispute, so it's not all that simple. Unfortunately, CorticoSpinal (who made the original inclusion) and one of his IPs violated his 1RR parole, which was one of the conditions for unblocking his indef block. Due caution needs to be exercised here. Edit warring, especially to protect one's own additions, can easily get one into trouble. I'm not suggesting that CorticoSpinal be indef blocked again for this violation, but it shouldn't have happened and this is a reminder to keep in mind that the ice is thin. -- Fyslee / talk 05:11, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Use of religious sources

Vassyana, I know that you have participated in many discussion on this topic; so can you look at this latest iteration of the perennial question here and especially critique my summary ? Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 16:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I think you got it just right, as far as my opinion goes. Vassyana (talk) 20:41, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Please see Talk:Nasr Al-Madhkur. Thank you. -- Slacker (talk) 22:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

WP:Lectures

Today (Apr 20th), around 15:00 UTC! Possibly on Skype, but certainly on IRC (#wikipedia-en-lectures on freenode)! I don't actually know about the Skype details... Message me on Skype (xavexgoem) about that, if you have it (no harm in getting it, either), and then maybe by that time I'll have a clue :-p Xavexgoem (talk) 14:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Covert incest

Hey. I saw that the editors over at this page relisted their discussion for a third opinion. It seems that whatever opinion you gave on the page turned into another argument. Do you want to take another look at it, or do you want a fresh set of eyes to take a look? — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 15:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

A fresh set of eyes would help. Vassyana (talk) 18:24, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I see I stepped into a situation that was already being tended to. I hope my comments were helpful rather than the reverse. Vassyana, I got the sense that the proposal of one sentence in the overview plus two or three sentences in a Criticism section would be acceptable to all parties, so long as it was neutral and didn't carry undue weight. I'll have to agree with the general sentiment that it didn't fit well in the description section. These editors do seem to work well with each other. I think in this case you might reconsider your opposition to a separate section since this criticism is legitimate. It just seems to be having trouble finding a home. Peace. - Tom Mmyotis (talk) 19:45, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

can you please help?

I'm terribly sorry to trouble you but there is a fellow who calls himself IAF and he is causing difficulties on the article dharma. He was doing the same thing a few months ago. He is adding incorrect information and removing valuable parts of the introduction. I have been contributing to this article for some time. We managed to get a B rating in the peer review. IAF seems to have a history of disruptive behaviour. If you can help in any way your kindness would be much appreciated. Langdell (talk) 19:41, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

want to give a lecture?

Wikipe-tan meditating deeply upon the mysteries of Wikipedia. Aum...

O:-) --Kim Bruning (talk) 21:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Trouble maker! :) Any particular topic you're fishing for? Vassyana (talk) 22:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

You wouldn't happen to know anything about mediation, would you? Or did you have any ideas yourself? --Kim Bruning (talk) 22:09, 20 April 2008 (UTC) such as how to be a troublemaker and get away with it? O:-)

Um ... *brushes a couple of userboxes under the carpet* ... I have no idea what this "mediation" you speak of means, did you mean the meditation? :) Vassyana (talk) 22:13, 20 April 2008 (UTC) I could do one on that topic. When should it be prepped for?

Meditation might be quite useful to calm the mind, and to help one assume good faith. O:-) --Kim Bruning (talk) 23:58, 20 April 2008 (UTC) Next week Sunday is already possible, if you like, or, if you'd like to prepare or get a mic/headset or so, any Sunday will do :-) .

The Sunday after next would actually be perfect if that's good by you folks. Vassyana (talk) 01:58, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Cool! --Kim Bruning (talk) 14:24, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the sources

Thanks Vassyana, I managed to integrate all three sources you put up quotes for into the covert incest page. If you want to review, it's this set of diffs; I wouldn't mind a review or feedback, the Okami reference probably reads a bit awkwardly and may be excessively long. I understand if you would prefer to remain neutral and not comment. Thanks, WLU (talk) 16:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks ...

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		... for the formatting help on Talk:Osho! A labour of love. :-)

Jayen466 00:14, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the kindness. :) I wandered by, and besides the title formatting issue, I could not follow the conversation easily. So, I just went ahead and reformatted for reading ease without changing the content of the post. Vassyana (talk) 01:14, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Help needed

Hi Vassyana - need your help as an uninvolved admin/third opinion/MedCab -

I'm having trouble with the page Pete Wheeler. The page is a BLP - Wheeler's an artist I knew a few years ago when he lived near me (I work as an arts reviewer). The article is being edited by someone who seems to be connected with his current gallery in Berlin. The edits are best described as unencyclopedic, adding items directly from several gallery websites and quite a sizable amount of OR interpretation of the art. I've reverted, or at least edited the material into a more encyclopedic form, several times, but the other editor simply edits it right back the way it was before, with copyvios, peacock words, OR, and advertorialising all included. It's complicated by the fact that the other editor (or editors) is/are using both a username and anon IPs. Since I'm involved I can't do anything like protect the page, and since I know Wheeler I might not be totally impartial; it'd be useful to get some non-involved admin help. There's dialogue relating to the dispute at Talk:Pete Wheeler, User talk: Grutness, User talk: Edieco and User talk:88.75.142.116. Grutness...wha? 00:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Protection of Christian

I note that you added a Protected Page template to Christian, but a user with a low edit count (Special:Contributions/Fuxu) was still able to vandalise it. Please would you check whether protection is actually in place? - Fayenatic (talk) 17:20, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Semi-protection only prevent access by IP users and accounts that not autoconfirmed. Cheers! Vassyana (talk) 02:05, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I had thought there was a longer history requirement for editing semi-prot pages; now I know! - Fayenatic (talk) 08:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

WP:Lectures

They are today (27 April 2008) at 15:00 UTC. Here is the skype link & here's the IRC link. Xavexgoem (talk) 15:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Response from Dana Ullman and a Request for a Re-evaluation of your actions

Can you read my response to the accusations against me here.[7]. I would also like you to consider re-evaluating your decision. DanaUllman^Talk 03:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I will certain review the situation again. To be fair, I reconsider after taking a few hours of off-wiki time. This will allow me to see with a fresher perspective, rather than simply gut responding to the perception currently in mind. Thank you for your polite request and patience. Vassyana (talk) 03:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I warned Dana for bad faith assumptions on his ANI post. Please review my warning. Notice that I also commented on Dana's post. You might want to ask other editors on whether Dana has repeated on his ANI post the exact same type of misrepresentations that got him banned on the first place. --Enric Naval (talk) 05:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Much to all of our dismay, no non-involved sysops have provided insight on what to do here. Based on my newest response, I hope that you will consider unblocking me until you are more certain that I am the one who deserves it. My point here is that I continue to be civil, and I continue to provide RS and notable information. If I would have archived active discussion without getting consensus beforehand and I would have added information to the article before there was recent discussion on the Talk pages, I would have been blocked a long time ago. However, when other editors do this, they not only have gotten away with this bullying, they blame me for being disruptive. Because you are uninvolved, I really am interested in knowing your evaluation of the situation. DanaUllman^Talk 22:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Dana, you REALLY, REALLY need to just move on and stop badgering Vassyana about this. Please, just move on. Baegis (talk) 01:54, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Baegis' statement above of typical of his bullying, and despite being warned about his uncivility, he is not creating a climate of collaboration. Even before this drama blew up, I appealed to Baegis in a friendly way.[8] That said, it is not my intention to badger you at all, and I hope that it does not seem that way. DanaUllman^Talk 03:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi there. I tried to read Dana's contributions. I did not find anything really problematic. He suggested that a notable study CHEST about Potassium_dichromate should be included. Dana is somehow passionate but he is not wrong, tenditious or uncivil.I think that if you take the time to seriously investigate the actions of the majority of the editors you might change your mind. Best.--44Elise (talk) 16:27, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

please help

I am being attacked again[9] and again.[10] QuackGuru 06:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

(ec) This is not an attack. It is an allegation accompanied by a request for investigation and discussion. I will politely ask Fylsee to redact his comments. On a related note, I implore you to reconsider your reaction and lack of action regarding my requests on your talk page. Vassyana (talk) 06:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Another attack.[11] QuackGuru 06:20, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

This is not an attack, for the same reasons as above. On the contrary, such requests for review and investigation are the very purpose of ANI. Vassyana (talk) 06:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I want nothing to do with the noticeboard. Please delete all my comments if you want. QuackGuru 06:34, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[12] I don't think Ned is right. QuackGuru 11:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

We have had our differences.[13][14][15] QuackGuru 11:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

McCready thread

Hello Vassyana, I believe there may have been a misunderstanding between you and QuackGuru. I am guessing that by "opposition" you meant his opposition to a topic ban for McCready. But since he was obviously very preoccupied about being attacked it was natural for him to read it as opposition against Jim Butler's comment. Reading his reactions with that interpretation in mind, they make a bit more sense, and it becomes clear that his "harassment" edit summary probably doesn't refer to you at all. Instead, it was a short answer to your question. --Hans Adler (talk) 09:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah! That would make sense. If that is accurate, I should drop a note for him pointing to your comment, offering clarification for what I meant and offering to rephrase my comments. Vassyana (talk) 10:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Done.[16] Vassyana (talk) 10:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I knew before I commented on the noticeboard I would be heckled for objecting to the ban. I should think twice before commenting on the NB. I have evidence there are "repeat offenders" who were making uncivil comments against me. I could let it go or post the evidence at the NB. I get attacked and I see no blocks. Repeat offenders should get blocked. I am not interested in discussing this further. Is Wikipedia the most uncivil place on the internet? QuackGuru 11:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

While there's always room for improvement, the overall level of civility on Wikipedia is remarkably high compared to other areas of teh Internets where controversial issues are discussed. MastCell ^Talk 17:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Things are getting more and more uncivil on Wikipedia. Editing the chiropractic article is becoming a very hostile environment. For example, personal attacks and misleading accusations by known chiropractor true believers has continued.[17][18] I should be allowed to edit the chiropractic article in peace and have productive conversations on the talk page. The article is a war zone and the disruptive editors need to be banned. Read the talk page of the chiropractic article. It is obvious who the problem editors are! QuackGuru 18:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Just remember that it takes two to tango. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I am not tangoing. Got it? QuackGuru 19:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Vassyana - With regard to the proposed Mccready topic-ban (which I think is appropriate), please let me know if you need to see further evidence, and I'll dig it up. Also, sorry again about the ensuing QG misunderstanding; wikistress levels seem to run chronically high around CAM topics. best regards, Jim Butler (t) 00:27, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Is Jim Butler really sorry when he makes such comments like this? Hmm. QuackGuru 05:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)