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:::: I find it hard to see how a league with only Indian clubs is not a domestic competition. The English [[Premier league]] is also domestic although many top-level players participate. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 18:26, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
:::: I find it hard to see how a league with only Indian clubs is not a domestic competition. The English [[Premier league]] is also domestic although many top-level players participate. --'''[[User:Tone|Tone]]''' 18:26, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::Algebraist, u would be surprised how much i know about cricket (u should read up on wiki's personal attack policies too). my argument is not whether IPL is domestic or not. it is that for cricket IPL is a big deal. Cricket in general that is. and to classify IPL with ur so called "domestic" keyword is unfair since around here it seems to mean "not worthy for ITN". Daviessimo used the same domestic league argument for NHL for Brodeur's all time record. And all i am saying is not every league for every sport is considered "domestic". It has to be looked by per sport basis. [[User:Ashishg55|Ashishg55]] ([[User talk:Ashishg55|talk]]) 18:45, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::Algebraist, u would be surprised how much i know about cricket (u should read up on wiki's personal attack policies too). my argument is not whether IPL is domestic or not. it is that for cricket IPL is a big deal. Cricket in general that is. and to classify IPL with ur so called "domestic" keyword is unfair since around here it seems to mean "not worthy for ITN". Daviessimo used the same domestic league argument for NHL for Brodeur's all time record. And all i am saying is not every league for every sport is considered "domestic". It has to be looked by per sport basis. [[User:Ashishg55|Ashishg55]] ([[User talk:Ashishg55|talk]]) 18:45, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

::::::Well, I don't know what is this entire argument about. Some people here are purposely manipulating comments made by me to serve their own viewpoint. It is quite obvious that the IPL is a domestic league. Who said it isn't? The point is, that though IPL is a domestic league, the decision to shift IPL to South Africa is an event of international significance because A) IPL is the only major domestic league in the cricketing world in which almost all major cricketers from every country with Test-status play. B) Never have I heard of a major domestic league being shifted abroad due to security concerns. Lastly, according to Daviessimo, the Dakar Rally, though organized by a French group, is an international sporting event because it is open to competitors from anywhere in the world and therefore, it cannot be compared to IPL. That is a flawed logic because the IPL is also open to international players, unlike other domestic tournaments like the [[Ranji Trophy]]. To put matters into perspective, let me ask a simple question: If the [[English Premier League]] had been shifted from England to France because of security concerns, how many of you would have opposed posting a blurb on that in the ITN? Even then, the IPL holds a special case because in cricket, there is no other domestic league in which every major cricketer from across the world have taken part in. That is not the case with the English Premier League because there are other soccer leagues which rival it in popularity and also attract a large number of high-profile players from across the world. So drawing comparisons between various soccer leagues and IPL is absolutely ridiculous and beats common-sense. And comparing IPL with other [[List of domestic Twenty20 cricket competitions|domestic T20 cricket competitions]] is even sillier and speaks volumes about the ignorance of the people involved in this entire argument. Sorry if I was a bit rude but c'mon.. --[[Special:Contributions/128.211.201.161|128.211.201.161]] ([[User talk:128.211.201.161|talk]]) 05:17, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


==March 21==
==March 21==

Revision as of 05:17, 25 March 2009

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This page provides editors a forum to suggest items for inclusion in Template:In the news (ITN), a protected Main Page template, as well as the forum for discussion of candidates.

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It doesn't seem to have any references for the new content. --They've also signed their comment 12:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and added some citations. It should be ready now. --User's Name 12:07, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
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Future events

Note: Only for pre-scheduled events of some certainty taking place within the next seven days, e.g. spaceflights, recurring sports fixtures or international conferences.

April 1

discussion moved to Wikipedia:April Fool's Main Page/In The News

March 25

ITN candidates for March 25

March 24

ITN candidates for March 24

Czech political crisis?

Mirek Topolanek
Mirek Topolanek
In comparison with Hungarian situation, here there was a vote of confidence. I support when the article is updated. Still, the blurb should mention that he'll stay in office until the end of the EU presidency (according to the ref). --Tone 21:56, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Dalai Lama banned from attending South African conference

So much is going on in Tibet in recent days yet there isn't a posting. This event appears fitting. Shiplevelone (talk) 02:36, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Turks and Caicos

How about the Turks and Caicos story? Whilst the premier's resignation isn't inherently notable (as it is not a country) the British Foreign Office is to put a bill before the Commons to suspend the constitution and transfer power to the governor, Gordon Wetherell. This has only happened once before in the islands' history and will effectively remove British citizens from the rule of the democratically elected assembly and place them under direct rule due to allegations of systemic corruption within the administration. Maybe it will only affect 30,000 people but it is quite an interesting story, perhaps it doesn't have international appeal though (but that is what discussion is for!). The article at Michael Misick is of reasonable quality and the controversies section is well sourced and Turks and Caicos Islands#Politics contains the details of the situation - Dumelow (talk) 11:10, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kenya Bush Fires

Might be an idea to keep an eye in this [1]. I don't think anyone has been killed but it could have a profound effect on wildlife. Thoughts? --Daviessimo (talk) 15:47, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


France's compensation for victims of nuclear testing

French Defence Minister Herve Morin announces that France will compensate victims of past nuclear tests in Algeria and the South Pacific. [2] [3] --BorgQueen (talk) 16:54, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Provisionally looks good: The logical place to update would be here for the first experiment and here for the second. Rambo's Revenge (How am I doing?) 17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

March 23

March 23, 2009 (2009-03-23) (Monday)

ITN candidates for March 23

Plane crash at Tokyo airport

A FedEx cargo plane crashed in Tokyo's Narita airport landing on a flight from Guangzhou. Two confirmed killed. [4] TheFreeloader (talk) 01:36, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

17 people were killed in the other crash... but I suppose we combined Alabama and Winnenden... then there's the four police officers killed in California... --candle•wicke 01:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
FedEx crash article: FedEx Express Flight 80 76.66.193.69 (talk) 05:13, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Posted both. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:24, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the fact that it's the first accident at the airport is worthy of an inclusion in the headline. It takes up four lines on my screen resolution. Jolly Ω Janner 16:32, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the first accident; it's the first fatal accident. And it takes up five lines on my screen, which balances Main Page rather nicely. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:43, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought, I followed your suggestion. I don't think it is worth arguing over... --BorgQueen (talk) 17:09, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Tata Nano

What about this. There's a good quality article on it --Daviessimo (talk) 17:57, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:21, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
We've already had this before, I'm not convinced it should go on again. Also the article may be 'good quality' but I'm not seeing any evidence it's ITN worthy. Were's the section with a significant update relating to it going on sale? Nil Einne (talk) 19:59, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, Nil Einne's memory serves him well, we've had this before and I seem to recall enough flak then about advertising and marketing a commercial product. --Stephen 23:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Looks like a very important product introduction. it is "in the news" in many news media. Thue | talk 22:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, we had it on ITN when it was introduced. This covers the fact that it is important achievement. Mentioning twice would be an advert and WP is advert-free ;-) --Tone 22:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hungary

I think its going to be worth keeping an eye on this [5], if as the article suggest he will resign on Monday --Daviessimo (talk) 13:01, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So is anyone willing to put up results of the first round of presidential election in Slovakia and Macedonia? --Tone 22:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to have to say no to first round results...the articles aren't fantastic, and I'd prefer to wait until the final round. However, if the articles were well-updated and such, it would be a weak support from me. SpencerT♦Nominate! 00:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
World Baseball Classic

The final will be played on the 23rd. It's Korea vs. either Japan or the U.S. We put up this event on 2006 and this is listed at WP:ITNR#Baseball. –Howard the Duck 03:56, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What happened in 2007 and 2008? --candle•wicke 04:39, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's a once-every-4-years tourney starting this year. They don't want to compete in the same year as the FIFA World Cup. –Howard the Duck 04:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder why. --candle•wicke 05:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
They don't want to compete against the Rugby World Cup too. Heh. –Howard the Duck 05:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see... --candle•wicke 14:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Holding the WBC every year wouldn't be popular because it interferes with Spring training for the players involved. As to why there's a three year gap between the first two tournaments and four afterwards, I'm guessing they don't want to ride the coattails of the Winter Olympics again rather than concern about the upcoming World Cup (although that could have factored in). Unfortunately, the WBC will always have this to compete with as long as the tournament is held in March.--Boznia 17:09, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think there are no other world tournaments competed by national teams the year after the Summer Olympics that's why they picked 2009+4. And they're planning to make this baseball's equivalent of the World Cup (although the Baseball World Cup exists and is held more frequently) that's why they made it quadrennial. And almost all world tournaments competed by national teams (the FIFA, Rugby, Cricket World Cups, FIBA World Championship, etc.) occur quadrennially so that's probably the case. –Howard the Duck 18:55, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you on the reason for holding the tournament quadrennially (as a standard for international tournaments), but...I still think moving the tournament year was to avoid the Winter Olympics. :) Turin 2006 ran from Feb. 10-26, and the first WBC ran from Mar. 3-20 of the same year. The Winter and Summer Olympics are by far the most followed international sporting events in the U.S. Now I know the WBC is meant to raise interest internationally in baseball and not focus on the U.S., but it needs support from the U.S. to succeed, and holding the WBC so soon after a major event like the Olympics reduces it's impact in a crowded U.S. sports market.--Boznia 20:19, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Let's just say they avoided both the Olympics and the FIFA World Cup. Anyway, the page views of the article surely doesn't not come majority from the U.S. (which doesn't really care, and I'm referring to the fans at the team, at last the manager), the top two days it had the most page views was at the Japan-South Korea and Venezuela-US game, three thousand less than the last day of the Six Nations Championship. –Howard the Duck 03:31, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
With U.S. being eliminated by Japan, that increases its internationalness by twenty-fold. –Howard the Duck 04:17, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Is it really all about "internationalness" or is it about the highest level of a particular sport? How did you come up with the twenty-fold figure? Korea and Japan are virtually next door neighbours(!) It's only international from a U.S. perspective... --candle•wicke 21:15, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The nations at the Six Nations Championship practically border each other, and on the 2006 World Cup, Italy and France bordered each other so... And when was the last time you heard K-Pop, and J-Pop anywhere outside Asia, and of all places, Dodger Stadium?–Howard the Duck 05:54, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Suggested blurb: Japan defeats Korea 5–3 in 10 innings to win the 2009 World Baseball Classic at Dodger Stadium, Los Angeles, U.S.
I'd be adding prose a little later on the article. –Howard the Duck 05:54, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Please be reminded to put the prose (with refs!) on the 2009 World Baseball Classic - Finals article, too. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 06:03, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Working on it. But I placed it on the main 2009 World Baseball Classic article. Is that OK? –Howard the Duck 06:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. The conditions as set for WP:ITNR are met so there should be no valid objections by now. –Howard the Duck 07:43, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. The Tom (talk) 18:41, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

March 22

March 22, 2009 (2009-03-22) (Sunday)

ITN candidates for March 22

Mount Redoubt
Nice pic of Mount Redoubt, 2009-03-21.

Just so you guys know, I am the primary contributor. The article needs some cleanup with the references because people have been bursting in and not following proper referencing methods, or at least not ones consistent with other GAs I've seen :). Ceranthor 19:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I like natural events on ITN, although for this to go up it will probably need more prose on the recent activity (22nd and 23rd March) --Daviessimo (talk) 15:40, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If 2-3 more sentences can be provided, this one has my support. --Tone 18:26, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm satisfied that even without a heck of a lot of prose on the recent prose it belongs on the (stale news-heavy) current ITN. Posted. The Tom (talk) 19:04, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Montana explosion/crash/bang thingy that's just happened


Cricket/politics/India
This is a very major development and though the decision was made just an hour ago, it has already created headlines across several media outlets across the world: Top News at BBC Sport [6] [7] [8] --128.211.201.161 (talk) 08:17, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding sports, we usually include only the results of the biggest events, not shifts. However, we'll include election. --Tone 13:23, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is not only about sports, it has major political and diplomatic implications too. --128.211.201.161 (talk) 21:32, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm still not able to understand your argument against posting this item which has created headlines in many parts of the world apart from India (UAE's Khaleej Times, Qatar's al-Jazeera, and BBC). --128.211.201.161 (talk) 22:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Had National Football League been shifted out of the United States, would you have used the same argument? The only thing at stake here Wikipedia's neutrality, global representation and credibility. --128.211.201.161 (talk) 22:03, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
IPL we will post the final results. no need to post the date shifts yet. (unless it gets canceled or something, which i doubt) Ashishg55 (talk) 19:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah.. it is not about date shift, it is about the shift in venue. --128.211.201.161 (talk) 21:32, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I get your justification but the only time we had something similar was when Rally Dakar was canceled and moved to South America next year. But this one is international. Still, hard to compare. --Tone 22:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yes! Indian Premier League (IPL) is very much an international event. Every major cricketer from every part of the world takes part in it. The league is organized by India's cricket board, but that does not mean it is not an international event. Please go through the list of players participating in the event. Even Dakar Rally is organized by a French group, not an international organization. --128.211.201.161 (talk) 03:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I thought only the first month will be played outside India? –Howard the Duck 04:19, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, all the 59 matches of the tournament will be played outside. BCCI is going to name the new host nation later today. Most probably, it would be England. I see absolutely no logic in not posting this item. IPL is one of the largest cricket tournaments in the world, played by all major cricketers, organized by India's Cricket Board and is being hosted in England. How is this not an international event? --128.211.201.161 (talk) 09:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If that's the case this may be posted. The IPL is top-level competition in club cricket. Once a new host has been determined this can be added. –Howard the Duck 14:07, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My personal opinion would be (as others have suggested) that simply a shift in venue does not warrant inclusion on ITN. It is a news story and nothing more. Despite its name ITN is not a 'news ticker', it is a place for encylopaedic articles relating to current events to be showcased. Regarding the other issue brought up on here, claiming that that the IPL is 'international' because it has foreign players participating is frankly a silly statement. Virtually every modern league of the major sports has an international make-up in terms of participants. As it is named the Indian Premier League it is very much a domestic competition. --Daviessimo (talk) 14:44, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno but this situation is rather novel; I haven't heard a sports league that is based in a country playing an entire season in another. Even if the league was small I think it could've merited a mention. –Howard the Duck 16:11, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, as Tone pointed out, an item on the Dakar Rally being shifted from Europe-Africa to South America was posted on the ITN. Secondly, it is rather silly to generalize cricket leagues with virtually every modern league of other major sports. When it comes to cricket, there are barely any leagues which attract players from all over the world. It is a well known fact in cricketing world that IPL is the first and currently the only domestic league of its kind. Other cricket leagues, namely Stanford 20/20, KFC Twenty20 Big Bash, Twenty20 Cup and Pakistan Super League, barely attract any players from other countries. Leagues which have attracted international players are either now canceled (Stanford Super Series) or are not recognized by the International Cricket Council (Indian Cricket League). Thirdly, how often does it happen in any sport that an entire domestic league, that too the most popular domestic league of that sport by far, is being held in a foreign nation? And lastly, by international event, I didn't mean to say that the Indian Premier League was an international league. I meant that the decision to shift the league out of India was an event of international significance. Sorry if I wasn't clear but still, isn't this a matter of common-sense? --128.211.201.161 (talk) 17:31, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think this might be worthy of inclusion. It does seem unfair to generalise each sport if perhaps cricket is operated in a different way than some other more popular sports. I am not overly familiar with the sport but, reading into it, it does seem interesting, unusual, significant and covered internationally within a small number of hours. India is no small country either by my estimation... I also like Howard's point – we don't hear or see this every day... --candle•wicke 21:11, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Plus this is a nice balance to the baseball blurb. Cricket and baseball at the same time in ITN. w00t. –Howard the Duck 07:51, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(back indent) i still think the news is not yet big enough to be on ITN. if this were to be posted we should minimum wait till its decided which country IPL is moving to. and for Daviessimo's comment on IPL being domestic. IPL is not even close to being domestic. just because the name starts off with "INDIAN" does not mean its literally indian league. its just the name. Worldwide players participate in it and it is now recognized as one of the most prestigious events in cricket (behind world cup). I would still prefer posting only the final results though. Ashishg55 (talk) 21:37, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As I have said before, the decision to move out the IPL is significant in many ways since it has political implications too. That said, I'm of the opinion that we should include an item on the BCCI's final decision on the new host. --128.211.201.161 (talk) 02:35, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not going to argue with people who refuse to accept the generic definitions of domestic and international in terms of sport. The IPL is run by the BCCI who are the governing body of cricket in India (not the world, not Asia.. only India), it is open only to Indian teams (not English, not Australian.. only Indian). Therefore it follows that is a domestic league. The comparison with Dakar is silly - it may be organised by a French body but it is open to competitors from anywhere in the world (hence its international status). An abundance of foreign players or overseas popularity does not make it an international league. The Premier League is the most popular sporting league in the world and has players from over 50 countries, but that does not make it international and we can't view other leagues or sports any differently. When we start to do that then we are no longer neutral --Daviessimo (talk) 15:35, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Cricket unlike soccer/hockey/rugby/whatever sport does not work in league system where every country got their own leagues going on. Cricket is mainly international and is played between international teams. IPL is the pretty much only league out there for cricket so players from around the world play in it. Governing body or fact its called Indian Premiere League does not make it domestic because Cricket is not same as most sports out there. Think of it this way if soccer only had the world cup internationally and other than that all players competed in a single league that was governed by lets say england would u consider it domestic? NO. You have to look at these things per sport basis. Now if in coming years there is a league for cricket in every country out there then i will agree with you. but as it stands right now IPL in no way can be considered a domestic league. Ashishg55 (talk) 15:55, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is totally false. There are many domestic cricket competitions, such as the County Championship, Ranji Trophy, Sheffield Shield and SuperSport Series. Algebraist 15:59, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And to further Algebraist's point the IPL is a 20Twenty league competition of which there are equivilants in over ten other countries (see List of domestic Twenty20 cricket competitions). Thus returning to what I said above, spin it any way you want, you can't change the fact that the IPL is domestic league. Heck it's even listed in the wikipedia article 'list of domestic twenty20 cricket competition' --Daviessimo (talk) 16:10, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In any case only IPL gets to be reported elsewhere.
This was has been "plaguing" North American sports here anyway, people insist they are "domestic leagues" despite them being the top competition of their respective sports; we can't use the standard for mainly European sports since either world competitions in which intercontinental champions qualify don't exist, or most of the best players are concentrated on one "domestic league" rendering these "domestic league" champions the audacity to call themselves "world champions."
If ever the "top competition"/"domestic league" argument won't cut, I'll ask: when was the last time an entire season of the top-level domestic league of a country gets to be hosted in another?
However, it seems there has been sporadic updates on article, and it has been confirmed that South Africa will host the IPL so there has to be some updates done there before this goes up. –Howard the Duck 16:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If anything, this is of the same magnitude as when Serie A relegated Juventus, et. al. to Serie B. That made it to the ITN in 2006, and even extended 2006 FIFA World Cup's link staying at the Main Page for a few more days. Well of course, that's football so... I also know there is no precedent on ITN except probably for WP:ITNR, elections and plane crashes, but still... –Howard the Duck 16:28, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There is a very massive difference between "domestic cricket competitions" and IPL. and if you can not see that then there is no point in arguing. Just because it is listed in the category does not make it "domestic league" where anything important shouldnt make it to ITN since it wont be international... Its just a very dumb way of looking at sport leagues in my opinion. It totally depends on sport and league's reputation in its respective sport. Ashishg55 (talk) 18:48, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have an argument that the IPL does not constitute a domestic league, or do we just have to take the word of someone who has already shown that they know nothing whatsoever about cricket? Algebraist 17:59, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I find it hard to see how a league with only Indian clubs is not a domestic competition. The English Premier league is also domestic although many top-level players participate. --Tone 18:26, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Algebraist, u would be surprised how much i know about cricket (u should read up on wiki's personal attack policies too). my argument is not whether IPL is domestic or not. it is that for cricket IPL is a big deal. Cricket in general that is. and to classify IPL with ur so called "domestic" keyword is unfair since around here it seems to mean "not worthy for ITN". Daviessimo used the same domestic league argument for NHL for Brodeur's all time record. And all i am saying is not every league for every sport is considered "domestic". It has to be looked by per sport basis. Ashishg55 (talk) 18:45, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I don't know what is this entire argument about. Some people here are purposely manipulating comments made by me to serve their own viewpoint. It is quite obvious that the IPL is a domestic league. Who said it isn't? The point is, that though IPL is a domestic league, the decision to shift IPL to South Africa is an event of international significance because A) IPL is the only major domestic league in the cricketing world in which almost all major cricketers from every country with Test-status play. B) Never have I heard of a major domestic league being shifted abroad due to security concerns. Lastly, according to Daviessimo, the Dakar Rally, though organized by a French group, is an international sporting event because it is open to competitors from anywhere in the world and therefore, it cannot be compared to IPL. That is a flawed logic because the IPL is also open to international players, unlike other domestic tournaments like the Ranji Trophy. To put matters into perspective, let me ask a simple question: If the English Premier League had been shifted from England to France because of security concerns, how many of you would have opposed posting a blurb on that in the ITN? Even then, the IPL holds a special case because in cricket, there is no other domestic league in which every major cricketer from across the world have taken part in. That is not the case with the English Premier League because there are other soccer leagues which rival it in popularity and also attract a large number of high-profile players from across the world. So drawing comparisons between various soccer leagues and IPL is absolutely ridiculous and beats common-sense. And comparing IPL with other domestic T20 cricket competitions is even sillier and speaks volumes about the ignorance of the people involved in this entire argument. Sorry if I was a bit rude but c'mon.. --128.211.201.161 (talk) 05:17, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

March 21

March 21, 2009 (2009-03-21) (Saturday)

ITN candidates for March 21

Yemeni tourist slaughter
Venezuelan takeover

How often does that happen... --candle•wicke 02:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Care to create an article? --BorgQueen (talk) 07:07, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Six Nations
Since it probably won't be seen in the mess below. Five minutes until it's over. --candle•wicke 19:20, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a matchtracker with two minutes left. --candle•wicke 19:24, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ireland wins its first Six Nations Championship in rugby union since 1948. When ready. --candle•wicke 19:28, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to see a little more prose in the article before this goes up. SpencerT♦Nominate! 19:39, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And it's wrong! It is their first 6 Nations Grand Slam since 1948 (their last championship win was in 1985 I think). Rambo's Revenge (How am I doing?) 19:46, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You're right actually. They did win something in 1985 as far as I'm aware. So "Grand Slam" then. --candle•wicke 19:55, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. See here for BBC report to confirm achievement. --candle•wicke 20:02, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The article is nice but what is the final wording then? --Tone 20:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Post as: Ireland wins its first Six Nations Grand Slam in rugby union since 1948. --candle•wicke 20:28, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. --Tone 20:35, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The current headline makes it same as though the Six Nations is a knock-out style competition and that Ireland and Wales were playing in the final, which it wasn't. Even if Wales won the game, Ireland would've still won it. Please remove the individual game details. Jolly Ω Janner 16:49, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Slovakia presidential election
Ivan Gašparovič and Iveta Radičová will meet in the second round. Can you suggest a good wording? The article is not really long but contains the vital info. --Tone 13:21, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Six Nations Championship, rugby union, superbowl, Gaelic football, international rules football, BBC, CNN, the Philippines, basketball, baseball, Champions League football, lots of other football, Olympic games, Irish ITNs, Eurovision, Commonwealth, NHL, American Idol, water on Mars, April fool
Ah yes, another potential ITN for Ireland... ;) --Candlewicke ST # :) 20:36, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: There are currently 4 rugby union items that will appear for this year, that's equal with the most popular sport football/soccer. This is potentially an over-representation of union's popularity but that's just me. –Howard the Duck 10:33, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well events like the Superbowl are irrelevant to me but that's because of where I am. No way would that be removed. --Candlewicke ST # :) 18:41, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But that's just 1. Union has four. And I dunno if this is the top-level considering there's the Tri Nations and the Rugby World Cup. –Howard the Duck 04:39, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: To the best of my knowledge, the Tri Nations is the Six Nations of the southern hemisphere. It simply would not make sense to include one without the other. Six is also more than three, i.e. more nations. --Candlewicke ST # :) 00:19, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but Rugby Union is a far more popular global sport than American Football and has four 'major' tournaments that involve a variety of nations (as opposed to just one) --Daviessimo (talk) 14:52, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. I can only assume that it's the fact that it is American football which helps it maintain such privileged status at ITN that, for example, the live televised All-Ireland Finals in hurling and Gaelic football which are held each September by the Gaelic Athletic Association (an organisation which has significant influence across the world, according to my viewing of the article on Gaelic football) hold each year in the 80,000+ full-to-capacity Croke Park and which are in effect to Ireland what the Superbowl is to the U.S. and, I suppose, the FA Cup is to England in terms of cultural significance and popularity, do not enjoy. Not even the international rules games which take place between Ireland and Australia (two countries in opposite corners of the world and located in separate hemispheres) feature on ITN, although I've previously attempted to change all that somewhere or other as it doesn't really make very much sense to me... and, even so, it's not as if ITN is about to cave in under the heavy weight of contributions/nominations that it can't feature the occasional sporting event beyond the major ones such as the Olympics or the FIFA World Cup (not elitism on my part but the most widely-viewed sporting event in the world for the benefit of those who might protest at its mention)... the last sporting ITN I can recall is the tennis in Australia which was neither today nor yesterday... --Candlewicke ST # :) 21:58, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My point is that the Six Nations and Tri Nations are not the top levels of competition for rugby union competitions contested by national teams; it's the Rugby World Cup. Ergo, I propose neither of them appear at the ITN unless something really awesome happens like the championship gets to be decided in 6 extra periods.
As for the Super Bowl and Irish games, the Super Bowl had 100 million viewers in the U.S., that's against even all of the people of Ireland and Northern Ireland, it won't cut it (dunno the "international" extent of those, though; if those competitions reached 100 million I dunno why the BBC and CNN International didn't cover them). The main argument for the inclusion of the Super Bowl was I guess it is the top competition of the sport, in any level, even higher than the IFAF World Cup (American football's equivalent of the FIFA World Cup). As for the FA Cup, I'm willing to support it if the final competitors finish 1st and 2nd at the Premier League, like what happened several years ago when Chelsea and ManUtd played.
P.S.: FIBA claimed the U.S.-China basketball preliminary round game at the Olympics had the most viewers ever.
P.P.S.: It's arguments such as "international rules" makes me cringe. Like a assoc. football game between San Marino and Luxembourg is more international than say, the NBA Finals, or even the World Baseball Classic (which will end this month). –Howard the Duck 02:31, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It is referred to as "international rules", I didn't make it up. To be honest, if I may have a cringe, it is arguments over television coverage that make me do so. When it is the highest level of a particular sport which has some form of global coverage, I see no reason why it shouldn't be included on ITN. It oughtn't to be determined by the fact that the BBC or CNN cover them. To give some context, if a country the size of Lithuania (sorry for picking on it) had its own specific sport (with perhaps some form of recognition abroad) and which had its own specific day where basically the country came to a standstill and sat down together to cheer on its team competing in that sport's highest level, then surely there is something significant in that? The trouble is I can't think of another small country with such a circumstance which speaks English on a daily basis that I could use to balance the point, other than Ireland. When I say English-speaking I don't mean to be biased against other languages, rather that it is more likely that inhabitants of a country will visit their "home" Wikipedia. I would not seek to remove baseball or the Superbowl as, apart from the fact that it would be futile, I understand the arguments for inclusion. What I cannot understand is why anyone would remove the Six Nations for reasons relating to its alleged lack of top level of competition. If there is no rugby union world cup, these championships are the highest level of that sport taking place this year. And, on that note, the games I referred to previously are in fact the top level of their particular (internationally-recognised) sport. Now why am I defending rugby union of all sports? --Candlewicke ST # :) 03:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The reason why I brought the Beeb and CNN at the discussion was that there is no easy way to determine "international-ness," hence if it is covered by the BBC and CNN it has a chance to be added here. Plus, for the its size, Ireland has too many ITN entries already, notwithstanding the Six Nations one since it affects six nations and is probably followed by many other nations elsewhere.
Yes, there is a sporting event that "stops" every country in the world; the thing is not all of them gets in here. The Philippines, a country with a lot more people than Ireland, had one last December but it was not added. Euro-bias? Maybe the next event this coming May would do the trick, since a Brit is involved.
The thing with Six Nations and the Tri Nations is that they are not the top level competitions of the sport, and that was one of the point of contentions in adding U.S. sports.
If it contributes anything to this discussion this page has more page views that the Six Nations tournament page, at least for March 2009. I was even more surprised when this page got more than the Six Nations considering the Americans don't take the tournament that seriously. –Howard the Duck 04:25, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The 6 nations and tri-nations are equivilants of the European championships, African Cup of Nations or Copa America in football. Are they no longer ITN worthy? What about the Commonwealth games or the Pan American games? I mean they not on the same levels as the Olympics are they? The simple fact is that they are all major sporting events and deserve a mention on the main page. As for your logic that there is an over-representation of Irish stories is silly, they haven't even won it yet, and if they do win it they deserve the recognition (particularly if it is as a grand slam). The reason is they will be champions of the Northern Hemisphere --Daviessimo (talk) 16:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Daviessimo's point above makes perfect sense. Otherwise anything continental would have to be removed and we would be left with just the Olympics and one or two other world events. And what of non-sporting items on the list, such as the Eurovision Song Contest for example? They too would have to be removed. And then it would surely be somewhat contradictory to even include the Superbowl? How can a tournament that produces the champions of an entire hemisphere not be notable enough for inclusion? The basketball page views point makes me cringe further – I have nothing against basketball and have enjoyed it in the past but, if page views are exclusively what determines an ITN, the section would probably be dominated by sports which are popular only in the United States with every baseball, basketball and American football final included to the detriment of many other sports which enjoy success in other countries! On the point about the Philippines, if that point is true, I should think it is because it wasn't nominated or discussed in any detail at the time. However, to prevent accusations of recentism at the time, perhaps it would better to sort it out now before May? If such an event occurs and it is at a high level in its field and enjoys such popularity as described then perhaps there is no other reason to exclude it other than "Euro-bias" – or certainly a bias against Asia? However, as I do not have any further detail on this event to go on, I do not know how to further comment upon it. --Candlewicke ST # :) 17:56, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And with regards to Irish ITNs, my apologies for the fact that the country is falling apart, i.e. a bank being nationalised, the economy slumping quicker than anywhere but Iceland and the pork recall, not to mention the numerous records relating to drugs hauls and bank robberies over the past few months. No apology for the weather, the UK can take the blame for that one(!) But of course it is my own fault for being one of the main researchers for ITN candidates for a period earlier in the year, a period which coincided with many of these incidents and records. However, it must be pointed out that they went through the ITN process like everything else and were deemed notable enough to be included by other users. I'm afraid the only way to rectify this is to sabotage the rugby union team on Saturday, for which Wales will have to take full responsibility. ;) --Candlewicke ST # :) 18:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, but IMHO still, it's not fair rugby union gets to have 4 items this year. I think football will also have 4 so that's not quite right. –Howard the Duck 14:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I saw my favorite topic aka Eurovision Song Contest once again and again I wonder if American Idol (season 8) will now make it. It is shown in a lot of places it has to have international interest, despite being having solely American (and Puerto Rican) residents as contestants. This has been a point of contention among American items since only Americans participate thus it is not "international" enough which is frankly silly. –Howard the Duck 14:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that TV show is anywhere near Eurovision in terms of its history and format. As far as I'm aware, the winner of Eurovision represents one country against about fifty others. I'm also assuming American Idol is a series and not something that is essentially an annual once-off final with one or two qualifying rounds? Not to mention that every other country would want their favourite talent shows included as well. And I don't think it's fair. But removing one will unbalance everything. I was trying to balance it further by including a wider range of sports. I don't think you can have the Superbowl without something like the Six Nations. And there's absolutely no way the Superbowl will be defeated... --Candlewicke ST # :) 20:56, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I do want the Super Bowl to be stricken off WP:ITNR though, or add it only when something really awesome happens. Like an OT game (I think that never happened before). –Howard the Duck 02:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(back indent) If nothing else, this is an international event with several countries participating. And the lack of sport ITN material recently would be an additional reason, though don't count it as a precedent. By the way, I thought it was pretty clear that we do include Eurovision and Superbowl and not American Idol (after all, it's one of the commercial shows on one commercial television in one country, regardless of all the fuss about it.)--Tone 21:09, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I could list off numerous TV shows from America that make it elsewhere but we don't put season premieres or finales on ITN. So I really don't understand where American Idol is coming from. --Candlewicke ST # :) 21:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Are there any other season finales aired live in real-time elsewhere? Unless you're watching on internet TV you won't see real-time 24 with the same scenes as seen by Americans. And we had two channels (free TV and cable) doing that in our place. –Howard the Duck 02:00, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Howard if you can't see the glaring difference between the Eurovision Song Contest and American Idol then the arguments is going to go on forever. As for your assumption about the international interest in American Idol read the article on the idol series. Most countries have only an interest in their national version. Its a blanket assumption to make suggesting that other countries are transfixed by American television. --Daviessimo (talk) 13:11, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno, my cousins in Malaysia were hooked last season. Maybe it's just... them. About the Idol series, I think only American Idol gets to be aired on countries outside its franchise area. Maybe Pop Idol and Australian Idol were also aired elsewhere.
I'm not even asking the removal of Eurovision considering its a big deal for Europeans and is aired internationally. And if I can see the "glaring difference", I also don't understand why NHL gets to be classified as a "domestic league" either, considering it sends representatives to a world competition, something an intercontinental league does. –Howard the Duck 17:44, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
via Eurovision and American Idol --Daviessimo (talk) 19:12, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

March 20

ITN candidates for March 20

Tonga
The volcano eruption looks nice. No article here yet, I presume... --Tone 09:04, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, particularly as it appears a new island has been created --Daviessimo (talk) 09:15, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I found this article - 2009 Tonga earthquake - for the earthquake that has just occured. I've expanded a little and added a section for the eruption although I'm not sure if it wants its own article (my inclination would be that it doesn't) --Daviessimo (talk) 10:11, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've expanded a bit more. How about: "A 7.9 magnitude earthquake occurs off the coast of Tongatapu, Tonga, shortly after a large scale undersea volcanic eruption begins in the region" --Daviessimo (talk) 10:34, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, but is the eruption the cause of the earthquake? If yes, no problem, if no, the articles should be separated. --Tone 12:10, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well there is a quote from someone from the USGS: "The association with the volcanic activity seems to be an interesting added dimension to this. It's not clear at this point that there is a direct association, but it seems suggestive at this point." --Daviessimo (talk) 13:05, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've created a new article for the eruption to play it safe. If in future there is a confirmed link then the two articles can be mereged. I think "A 7.9 Mw earthquake occurs off the coast of Tongatapu, Tonga, shortly after a large scale undersea volcanic eruption begins in the region" should be ok now --Daviessimo (talk) 15:22, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. SpencerT♦Nominate! 15:57, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Robotic fish
Cool! Though I think this is a perfect candidate for April 1 since is it really something unusual. --Tone 16:53, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, yes, I agree - April fool's sounds good. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:01, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Moved to here. --candle•wicke 19:04, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Y(4140)

The Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory announces the discovery of Y(4140), a new subatomic particle. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

March 19

ITN candidates for March 19

AIG bonus payments controversy
Nom: The U.S. House of Representatives votes to levy a 90% tax on bonuses awarded by corporations receiving more than $5 billion in Treasury aid. --Hapsala (talk) 04:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
2009 extinct fossil octopus discoveries

I'd like to nominate the article 2009 extinct fossil octopus discoveries for in the news. Grundle2600 (talk) 14:13, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nice one. Actually, if you look above, there is an idea for April 1 Main page to have unusual but accurate events and this is a perfect candidate in my opinion. If you agree, of course. --Tone 16:05, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah - that sounds awesome! Thanks for telling me. Grundle2600 (talk) 21:13, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Joseph Fritzl

Joseph Fritzl being sentenced to life under the blurb "Joseph Fritzl pleads guilty to charges of incest and murder and is sentenced to life imprisonment" BigHairRef | Talk 18:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Already nominated in the section below. And no, I don't think it is ITN-worthy. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:23, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No. --Candlewicke ST # :) 21:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This case has generated huge international interest. I strongly support its inclusion on ITN. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But is ITN really for stories that are overly sensationalised by the tabloids (although I realise it's not just the tabloids)? Or is it about incidents of notability or real significance? There doesn't appear to have been any new records set here. I heard a mention on television last night as to why this story is getting so much coverage when thousands of similar cases are occurring all the time; there are thousands of court cases involving rape and incest; in fact there was one in Ireland recently that didn't quite register on the same level of news coverage but had many similar elements, including the rape and incest of multiple children by their mother in this case and she was given a lengthy spell in prison. We could of course always post the imminent death of Jade Goody as well since we're going down this line – as far as I can see this is getting great coverage in Europe and some internationally too. --Candlewicke ST # :) 13:46, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For some reason this has been widely covered not only by the trashy news media so I guess it meets "international interest". The Irish one wasn't that covered elsewhere as this one. As for records, I don't think anyone keeps records for things such as this. If it had "similar elements" but wasn't covered extensively then it won't cut it. I dunno what's with this case that makes it such a media magnet. –Howard the Duck 14:22, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I did hear someone point out somewhere that it might have been due to Austria having produced Hitler which seems a bit of a crude comparison but nonetheless may have had some impact on the case. Throw in a sense of voyeurism and the fact that sex sells and it becomes perfect tabloid fodder which in turn would feed public interest. But the point is, while it may have a high public profile, ITN doesn't necessarily follow media trends. The floods we've just posted aren't really getting the coverage they deserve but they are definitely notable from the few reports we have. --Candlewicke ST # :) 15:55, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Our criteria is pretty loose anyway: "international importance or interest", not "international importance and interest". If it passes one out of two it can be considered. –Howard the Duck 16:17, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It is ok to consider but the decision whether to post it or not is up to a consensus. Some stories may even not be of wide international interest, like some new fossils discovered, but those are of encyclopaedic interest so that's why we put them on ITN. This particular story is just one sad story made big by the media. --Tone 16:24, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer the stories involving fossils, archaelogical discoveries and events like the floods that tend to be ignored by the media. This is after all an encyclopedia, readers might expect more stories relating to science, history and geography or else they might as well go to Wikinews. --Candlewicke ST # :) 20:58, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If we're going to focus on things ignored by the media, we should call it something other than "In the News." -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:16, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(outdent) I basically concur with Tone's latest assesment. I was originally the one who nom'd this, but after the two objections I came round to the fact that this story had been spun by the media, and that although it is sad, it is not particularly notable. Rambo's Revenge (How am I doing?) 22:55, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well they're still in the news if they've happened recently, the trouble is they may not be making headlines across the world. Why follow the order of the headlines? ITN might as well be a news service in that case. --Candlewicke ST # :) 23:19, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Pope

The Pope returns with a vengeance. Today he celebrates a first in front of 60,000 people. There are lots of sources available for this whole event. Any thoughts? --Candlewicke ST # :) 21:21, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think we had an ITN post when he visited Australia. On the other hand, when another religious leader or head of state (well, the pope is both) makes a visit, we usually don't put it on. --Tone 21:24, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, but the Pope is both. Anyway I have one which I think is far better. --Candlewicke ST # :) 21:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Namibia floods

Floods in Namibia kill 90 people. --Candlewicke ST # :) 21:26, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

March 18

March 18, 2009 (2009-03-18) (Wednesday)

ITN candidates for March 18

Natasha Richardson

Natasha Richardson
Natasha Richardson
Nom: British actress Natasha Richardson (pictured) dies of head injuries following a skiing accident at Mont Tremblant Resort north of Montreal. --Hapsala (talk) 11:56, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
We didn't put on Heath Ledger, this seems a precedent in this case. --Tone 12:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
True, we'd better not put this on. --Hapsala (talk) 12:50, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You actually did put Heath Ledger up; it's how I first heard of it(!) I just checked the archive and it's in there. Even so, Ledger had probably achieved a bit more and was more widely recognised for his individual work across many continents. He was also younger, his death was more sudden, etc, whereas this went on for some hours and days. I don't think Richardson had not yet risen to his level and seems to be more widely recognised for her family background, maybe one or two roles at most. --Candlewicke ST # :) 21:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(reduce indent) If I recall correctly, Wikipedia didn't have a free use image at the time. So, I had to ask a photographer to change his licensing from copyrighted to CC-BY-SA. That probably is a factor as to why his picture wasn't immediately shown on the front page at the time of his death. miranda 01:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Martin Brodeur

Martin Brodeur sets NHL record for most career wins at 552... If someone can turn that into proper headline that would be great. ahh even though he is playing for devils he is still a canadian :) Ashishg55 (talk) 02:25, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Domestic sporting records aren't really notable enough for ITN in my opinion --Daviessimo (talk) 13:24, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
First of all there are 2 countries involved so it is not domestic. Secondly NHL isnt something that small and i believe an all time record deserves to go up on ITN. 206.172.53.88 (talk) 17:46, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The NHL is classified as a domestic league. It is comparible with the Football league, which also has participants from two countries. If this were an international record (i.e. most wins in Ice Hockey World Championships) then fine but as a domestic achievement it is no more noteworthy than say Alan Shearer's record as the top goalscorer in Premiership history. If either went up you have a precedent for hundreds more records to go up in all manner of sports. In my eyes Raul's achievement as the record holder for appearances and goals in the Champions League is more internationally significant, but that didn't go up onto ITN. --Daviessimo (talk) 18:42, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: The IIHF does not classify the NHL as a domestic league, although they're working out on the Victoria Cup, a tournament involving Champions Hockey League and the NHL; hence if the UEFA CL had a North American hockey counterpart, it's the NHL. –Howard the Duck 14:38, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Daviessimo. The sports thing is already complicated enough as it is without opening it up to potentially dozens or even hundreds of more ITNs by altering the criteria ever so slightly to include this achievement. --Candlewicke ST # :) 20:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The NHL is definitely not comparable to the Football League, which is just one of many quality soccer leagues in Europe. The NHL is the sole major hockey league on the continent of North America and is universally recognized by people who know hockey as far and away the top level of the sport in the world. It is like the English, Spanish, Italian and German soccer leagues put together. I see nothing wrong with having sports records of extreme notability, like Barry Bonds breaking the career home run record (which I believe was on ITN). Whether Brodeur's achievement is in that class is something for a Canadian to determine. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:16, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Its comparable in as much as it is a domestic league with competitors from more than one country. Saying its like the English, Spanish, Italian and German football leagues put together is silly because it is nowhere near as big as the Champions League, which is arguably the biggest international club competition in the world. Actually thats were your argument falls flat. Both the winners of the NHL and Champions league go up on ITN - record holders don't. Thus as I pointed out above in order to maintain neutrality if Raul's achievements are not ITN worthy, then neither is this.--Daviessimo (talk) 07:56, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I knew it! The Euroleague is bigger than the NBA. Ditch the NBA Finals and replace it with the Euroleague Final Four. –Howard the Duck 14:33, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On a more serious note we should probably add the event when Wayne Gretzky's the career regular season goals record is broken. It's like the home run and Barry Bonds for hockey. This one should not go up. But I'll support the Stanley Cup Final which will occur in June. Hey, it's Canada so... –Howard the Duck 14:38, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
From what Daviessimo says winners, not record-holders of these events go on ITN, don't they? --Candlewicke ST # :) 21:10, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Some records go on ITN. We had Usain Bolt on 100m. And this weekend, we may have a new world record in Planica in ski jumping (that would have my support). --Tone 21:12, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I specifically remember Barry Bonds' record-breaking game being added, although I'm not sure. –Howard the Duck 02:07, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Champions League is bigger than the NHL because soccer is bigger than hockey. But the NHL is as big in its sport as the Champions League is in its sport. Anyway, the key variable should not be the importance of the league necessarily but rather the cultural significance of the record event. The career home run record has huge cultural significance in the United States, more than any American football or basketball record. In Canada, the equivalent would be someone breaking Wayne Gretzky's career goals record. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:16, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the NFL and NBA all-time career scoring records would go up, though since it is not as closely followed by the rest of the populace (I think this is the same case for the Premier League career goals record). The Gretzky record is safe until the lifetimes of our grandchildren so we won't be seeing that in ITN for a long time. –Howard the Duck 02:07, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Bolt's was fine I think as not only was it widely recognised in his particular sport but it occurred during the Olympics and as far as I can see it would be that and Michael Phelps's record that those Olympics will be remembered for. These are very much individual records in sports that don't involve teams. But what I meant was that Daviessimo was indicating that records for team sports such as football don't seem to generally get posted as of course there would be so many more of these in individual leagues in different countries and this would very difficult to maintain. --Candlewicke ST # :) 14:03, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think Bolt's 100m record was broken in a competition outside the Olympics, unless he broke it again anew on the Olympics.
For team sports, there are only a very handful of records that are widely followed: for North America its the MLB home run record, the NHL career goals record. I think those are the only records worth adding as for the moment in North American sports. The MLB is within reach within a few years but the NHL one is safe for a really long time. I dunno European ones but as for the Alan Shearer's Premier League all-time goals record, the EPL has been in existence only for the last 15 years so it hasn't caught upon the rest of the populace as unlike on the MLB and NHL examples (I think the all-time English top flight goals record is not that widely known anyway). I remembered one case when one football player surpassed 1,000 goals in a career but I don't think FIFA certified it and the records are murky on that case. –Howard the Duck 14:31, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Bolt's record was set in the Olympics, see Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics – Men's 100 metres. I think the problem here is distinguishing between actual records and records in statistics. I think statistical highlights don't belong to ITN because they are many and hard to maintain, as shown above. In team sports, it's the victory that matters, in other sports, it's the time/distance/other quantity. --Tone 14:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Tone. In teams sports winners are the ITN story not records. Howard as for your bizarre comments regarding the premier league the following comes from the wikipaedia article on it "the Premier League is the world's most popular and most watched sporting league, followed worldwide by over half a billion people in 202 countries" --Daviessimo (talk) 15:04, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I was referring to the top flight, all-time. Premier League and the old First Division. Does anyone know who is all-time goal scorer for its entire history? Shearer's record is strictly for the Premier League (1992-present) only, it doesn't include previous incarnations of the top flight. –Howard the Duck 15:23, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I'm aware its Jimmy Greaves, but thats beside the point. The concensus seems to be that in team sports it is team achievements that are more noteworthy (e.g. Team X wins competition Y or Team X set a new record for wins in Competition Y) as long as the competition is internationally noteworthy. In certain instances there are cases where an individuals records can be noteworthy, however my opinion would be that they would have to relate to an international competition (e.g. Player A sets record for appearance/goals in World Cup). This particular item fails on that criteria because no matter how you like to play it the NHL is a domestic league and is on a par with the Premier League (those who suggest that just because Canada is included makes it international are clutching at straws - a good comparison would be the Australian A-League in which teams from New Zealand are eligible - that does not make that an international competition). --Daviessimo (talk) 15:48, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
These events happen very, very rarely anyway, and there are only a very few valid choices for individual achievements in a team. In the NFL it seems that there are records broken in every game no one cares anymore. It only becomes notable if someone approaches the record close enough. I also remember another ITN blurb for a cricket player for appearing in the most test matches, that was notable.
The Jimmy Greaves article doesn't mention this very important achievement so it's probably not him. Which proves my point no one really cares about this since no one knows who owns the record.
(You may want to see the IIHF link above on how they classify things.) –Howard the Duck 16:11, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would be wiser to come up with a strategy to what should be included and what not. If a record that gets broken every now and then, then i dont think it should go up. But something that took many years to achieve may be wroth adding. In terms of what league, i think it has to do with what sport it is. For hockey NHL is widely recognized, just like someone mentioned skiing earlier which people may not care too much about over at the west. I think in some way all leagues are domestic but it really depends on the sport and how they are recognized around the world. Disputes like this will happen everytime otherwise. people can always say well u did not post Martin Brodeur then why this guy or why that. If we have a more clear definition on what to post maybe that will help Ashishg55 (talk) 18:12, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If there was an NHL record worth adding at ITN, it's the career scoring record by Gretzky, not this one. –Howard the Duck 01:58, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fritzl

"Joseph Fritzl has pleaded guilty on all charges."[10] A guilty plea was enough for the Madoff ITN, but according to the BBC the sentencing will take place tomorrow, so I can wait if people think we should. Rambo's Revenge (How am I doing?) 14:20, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not big on posting smaller-level stories like this; if this was an important politician being sentenced for war crimes, I'd think its noteworthy. However, the media frenzy about the Fritzl case has made it seem way more important than it acutally is, so I'm going to have to oppose. SpencerT♦Nominate! 15:10, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) Strong no. Madoff case affected lots of people while this case only affected his family and was made huge by the media. We didn't have it on ITN when it was discovered so I oppose putting it up now. --Tone 15:11, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Wasn't the Madoff incident a record? I'm sure this would be more significant if it was some sort of record but it doesn't appear to be. --Candlewicke ST # :) 20:24, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Mozambique

Here. Any thoughts? --Candlewicke ST # :) 20:59, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are two stories. The prison one is too unclear what actually happened and I don't think it's ITN material. The other one with chlorine is quite small in comparison with standard ITN posts. --Tone 21:34, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Jailed!

What about this? --Candlewicke ST # :) 21:57, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To me its not the case itself that is noteworthy, but rather the linked story [11] that could be. Hundreds, if not thousands of cases could be re-opened and subsequent convictions quashed. --Daviessimo (talk) 22:19, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Too much news story for me. --Tone 22:29, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Federal Reserve

Ok, what about this. We've had plenty of $ billion stories so why not a $ trillion dollar one? --Daviessimo (talk) 22:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We put up a similar story with the BoE. Is there an updated article? SpencerT♦Nominate! 00:27, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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