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September 11

post taken down List of film festivals

Hi .

We put up info about Winter Film Awards INC. and the posting been taking off twice. I place the following:

List of film festivals in North and Central America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_festivals_in_North_and_Central_America#International_festivals code below: |- |Winter Film Awards||2012||New York City||New York|| New York City's Winter Film Awards Film Festival focuses on nurturing emerging filmmakers from all genres around the world, and helping them gain recognition, distribution and contacts to break into this difficult industry. Held annually in February ||http://www.winterfilmawards.com

and

List of film festivals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_festivals#North_America code below: |- |Winter Film Awards||2012||New York City||New York|| International||New York City's Winter Film Awards Film Festival focuses on nurturing emerging filmmakers from all genres around the world, and helping them gain recognition, distribution and contacts to break into this difficult industry. Held annually in February http://www.winterfilmawards.com |-

Can someone please let us know what went wrong thank you for your time — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaacs wfa (talk • contribs) 00:25, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

• @Isaacs wfa: Nothing went wrong. Your addition was reverted by another editor. They left the following edit summary, "redlink, if subject is notable, please create cited article first". If the event is notable a standalone page can be created first. However, your username potentially indicates that you may have a conflict of interest in this subject. Do you work for this company? Remember Wikipedia is not for promotion. Wikipedia is only for things that are notable on their own. If the event is notable and there are reliable sources an article can be created. However, if you have a conflict of interest you should not create the article yourself outright. Instead, you can use the articles for creation system. This system will allow you to create an article that will be reviewed by other, impartial, editors that will ensure that it meets all the standards and guidelines Wikipedia has set for their articles. --Stabila711 (talk) 00:36, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Hewllo, Isaacs wfa. A phrase like "We put up info" almost always means that somebody has misunderstood in a fundamental way what Wikipedia is and what it is for. "Putting up info" is not what happens here - what we do is to write articles, which should be based almost 100% on what people unconnected with the subject, have published about it. If hardly anything has been published about it by independent sources, then it is impossible to write an acceptable article on it, so we don't let you try - that is what "notability" means, as referenced by Stabila711 above. -ColinFine (talk) 10:01, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Samuel Oboh

Can someone help clean up the article on Samuel Oboh as this subject has achieved significant success as the first Canadian of African descent to lead the architecture body of Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.58.220.231 (talk) 02:08, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I have removed some of the puffery, the External links from the bodytext and other MoS violations - perhaps another editor could consider if this goes far enough to remove the remaining tags? - Arjayay (talk) 08:23, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Page title name change

Hello there,

Looking for help with my page. Joseph Seiders

I would like my title name to be "Joe" Seiders and not Joseph. Joe is the professional name that I go by. I don't mind that the first paragraph starts out with my full name but I would like my page to be searchable by "Joe" on Google, etc...

Thanks for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:6042:4E00:30B3:ADD1:DF8E:EC9C (talk) 02:57, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Done because that is the name you're commonly known by (see WP:COMMONNAME).  Done — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orangemike (talk • contribs)

• (edit conflict) It has been done by Jayron32 (beat me to it). If you wish to make further edits to that page please do not do them yourself as you have a conflict of interest in the page. Instead you can place {{request edit}} on the article's talk page along with your edit request. Another editor will make the edit for you to avoid any potential issues. --Stabila711 (talk) 03:17, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Projection and mapping

Two questions. The first one belongs rather to WP:RD/MA, but it serves as an introduction to the second:

1. What's the difference between projection and mapping in geometry and cartography?
2. Is there a reason to keep Category:Conformal projections and Category:Conformal mapping separate?

CiaPan (talk) 07:10, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Geometers use the word "mapping" for any function from one space to another, and specify "conformal mapping" if it conserves angles. Cartographers are interested in conformal, and other, maps from a sphere or spheroid (the earth's surface) to the plane ("map" in the everyday sense), and call them "projections". Many conformal maps are of no interest to cartographers. All conformal projections used by cartographers are conformal mappings. I would expect the former category to be a subset of the latter. Maproom (talk) 08:15, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

need help with replacing a photo on Sir Martin Gilbert Wiki page

Hi there, Im trying to replace a photo on the Sir Martin Gilbert Wiki page. Sir Martin Gilbert has been rebranded so we want the photo on wiki to be in line with his website and other social network platforms. I have uploaded the photo to wiki and given my details re the source of the photo,and I now need to upload to the box on the right on his page,but cant see how this is done. Can anyone help me?

Many Thanks Estelle1960 (talk) 10:35, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Is it about Martin Gilbert page? --CiaPan (talk) 10:45, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not concerned with rebranding. However, the image which you uploaded to File:Sir_Martin_Gilbert.jpg appears (to me; other editors may disagree) to be better than the one in the Martin Gilbert article, so I have replaced it. Maproom (talk) 10:47, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

...and I have re-inserted the previous image into the Martin Gilbert#Honorary Degrees section. --CiaPan (talk) 10:53, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

However, the copyright of the picture is a concern. When you uploaded it, you specified an acceptably free licence, but gave the date of the picture as "It was taken by am employee". Without evidence to the contrary, we must assume that this employee, rather than you, is the owner of the copyright, and you cannot release it on their behalf. Even if there is a contract with that employee, transferring the copyright to a company, we will need evidence of this, and formal permission from the current copyright-holder rather than from you. I will put the old picture back until this gets sorted out. Maproom (talk) 10:54, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

[off-topic] How the heck do you "rebrand" a person, and a dead one at that?--ukexpat (talk) 13:52, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Human branding ? - Arjayay (talk) 20:27, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

See the careers of Miley Cyrus, Lindsay Lohan, and possibly Bob Sagat though Sagat's personal humor has probably always been dark. Dismas|^(talk) 20:34, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Help:Cite errors/Cite error references no text

Please help me to correct mistake: "The named reference survey was invoked but never defined". The site is working and the link is correct, I can't understand what to fix there. the link is at the bottom of this page SmartCAT

And another problem - you delete the page SmartCAT as a promotional. I changed the text, trying to describe functions of the program in the same way as MemoQ page was done, so it won't look as promotional. Hope this time you can accept it. Or just write me what to change in the description. Thank you. Nadezhda — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pupsa.k (talk • contribs) 11:36, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I've fixed the reference error. The article has no references and no clear indication of why its notable. In its current form it will be heading for the bin. I suggest Wikipedia:Your first article would the best place for you to start. - X201 (talk) 11:41, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Repealing an Arb restriction

Where does one go, to get an Arb restriction repealed? GoodDay (talk) 13:57, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

At WP:ARCA. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 14:20, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

new topic?

hello, I noticed Wikipedia has an article on siestas but not "water breaks"; not sure if it qualifies, but I thought I would mention it! thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.171.130.173 (talk) 19:24, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

We have an article on Break (work) which covers tea-breaks and coffee-breaks, and an article on Water coolers including a section on Water cooler effect - perhaps you could add to either, or both, of those articles? - Arjayay (talk) 19:56, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

if there are sources that discuss the specific subject in a significant manner it can be a stand alone article. It seems unlikely, but potentially plausible that "water breaks" would become a specific "thing" talked about - particularly in a drought situation with farm laborers where the necessity for hydration became part of the focus of discussion and enactment or enforcement of labor laws... -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:06, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Namespace moves

Is there any tool/method to find moves between different namespaces? I know there's the move log, but it doesn't really offer that kind of filtering and is overwhelmed by page renames. Finding these kinds of moves would be really useful because personally I've found a few drafts moved to the Wikipedia namespace because movers assumed it was the article namespace. It would also highlight any possible vandalism where for example an article was moved to the FIle namespace. Opencooper (talk) 20:21, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't know of any existing tool for this, but it would be possible to download the move log and apply an offline application to filter out such entries fairly easily -- indeed a spreadsheet could probably be used for the purpose. I suppose an online tool could be created for this. DES ^(talk) 21:16, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I suppose that route could work well if the logs are downloadable and parsable. Thanks for the suggestion; I'll look into it. Opencooper (talk) 22:26, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

When can Documentaries be included in an article

Hello,when can documentaries be included in an article?

For example, for the Hubble Telescope article I added text about 2 NASA PBS documentaries with citations, which I thought valuable for readers and notable. Someone removed the text as pointless, in their opinion.

Is there documentation describing what documentaries can be noted in an article? I see documentaries noted in other articles.

Thank you, CuriousMind01 (talk) 21:59, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello, @CuriousMind01: It would be: Wikipedia:Verifiability#Verifiability_does_not_guarantee_inclusion. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:08, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

The section doesn't discuss criteria for contents of an article.CuriousMind01 (talk) 10:28, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

@CuriousMind01: If you are looking for a list of dictums: "You can include X but you cannot include Y"; you will not find such. We are collaboratively writing an encyclopedia on topics as varied as Drosophila to Who Shot Mr. Burns?. What may be vital for one article may be completely inappropriate for another. The context, scope of the article, existing content, the particulars of the information, are but a few of the considerations that need to be weighed. In one article it might be appropriate to list "Documentaries have been made about the subject including XXXX, YYY and ZZZ(source)." For another it might be appropriate to utilize content from the documentary as article content with documentaries as sources for footnotes. For another, it might not be appropriate to include documentary at all. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:17, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

For broadly covered topics like Hubble, it really helps if the documentary says something notable that other sources don't (without contradicting the others). Topical information is the hook. That documentaries merely exist doesn't mean much, unless they receive significant secondary coverage and the section is about documentaries (or one in particular). Typically, significant coverage is reserved for cinema documentaries about somewhat unusual or underplayed topics, and leads to standalone articles; PBS and NASA go together as routinely as CNN and the Kardashians, so no article-level notability for (most of?) those pieces.

On the flip side, if you find a documentary on a more obscure spacecraft, that edit is far likelier to stick, even if it's a direct-to-YouTube deal (unless the credits only list usernames). Small fish appear bigger in small ponds. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:28, September 12, 2015 (UTC)

September 12

Help:Cite errors/Cite error included ref

Scleroderma

<ref>www.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/scleroderma/background.html</ref>— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mgmcs (talk • contribs)

• @Mgmcs: You should be good now. I believe I got all the problems. Please double check my work and let me know if there are any further issues. --Stabila711 (talk) 01:04, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Article Lead/Intro

Hello,

In the article Intro/Lead Section, is it okay to include bulleted text ? Is there any rule on formatting that prohibits this ? Also, can one use bold face to emphasize some key aspects (e.g., some small phrases) in the lead section ?

I have another question, unrelated to this: On many articles, we see a note at the top, mentioning about several things, e.g., incomplete, not neutral, lacks citations, etc. Have these notes been put down by an admin ? Or could anyone have put in these notes ? Also, can these notes be removed by anyone ? Or does an Admin need to remove them ?

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Js82 (talk • contribs) 02:59, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Js82. While I don't know of a specific rule against bulleted lists in the lead section that section is normnally supposed to summarize the article as a whole, and I don't think a bulleted list is usually the best way to do that.

Any editor can add maintenance tags (as those notes are known here) to an article. If you are using WP:Twinkle its "tag" feature will do so pretty automatically. Similarly, any editor can remove such tags. However, one should not remove them unless one has fixed the issue, or thinks that the tag does not apply. One should note the tag removal and the reason for it in the edit summary, and particularly when one thinks the tag was not proper in the first place, a post on the article talk page is often a good idea.

I hope that helps. DES ^(talk) 03:09, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, DES Js82 (talk) 09:07, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

@Js82: Regarding your question about boldfacing text: The relevant guidelines are at MOS:BOLD, which says, "Do not use boldface for emphasis in article text." Normally, bf is used in the lead only for the article's topic and for any search terms that redirect to the article. Deor (talk) 10:22, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

login

how to login — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.150.32 (talk) 03:30, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

There's a link at the upper-right corner of every screen at Wikipedia. That will take you to the login screen. --Jayron32 03:33, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

For the direct link, go to Special:UserLogin. eurodyne (talk) 04:34, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Hollywood actor CHARLTON HESTON - his movies

Dear Sir/Madam,

I remember seen a hollywood movie whose title starts with "INTERNECINE .........". This movie is not included in the list of films acted by the actor Charlton Heston. Kindly have a check and include this.

Regards G.Nagendra Rao AP, India — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.96.179.74 (talk) 04:25, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source for this film? It's not listed at IMDB. Perhaps you are mistaken in your memory. --Jayron32 04:30, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm seeing The Internecine Project, but that starred James Coburn. Ian.thomson (talk) 04:34, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Infobox help (Sports)

text of infobox

Luis Oropeza

Personal information
Full name	Luis Enrique Oropeza Sonoqui
Date of birth	(1995-10-27) 27 October 1995
Place of birth	Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico
Height	1.70 m (5 ft 7 in)
Position(s)	Midfielder
Team information
Current team	Cimarrones de Sonora
Number	27
Senior career*
Years	Team	Apps	(Gls)
2013–	Cimarrones de Sonora	4	(0)
*Club domestic league appearances and goals, correct as of 4:43, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Why isn't the youth club appearing?? Everything looks normal to me, but "Club America" isn't showing up on the article. Charlie the Pig (talk) 04:31, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

• @Charlie the Pig: One of your parameters is incorrect. You have youthclub1. It should be youthclubs1 --Stabila711 (talk) 04:38, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia donors

Hello.

Does Wikipedia still publish the names of Wikipedia donors? 108.223.135.195 (talk) 06:26, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

To an extent. See wmf:Benefactors, but see also wmf:Donor policy/en. It appears, then, that the information is not shared but some are listed at the first page I linked and I am assuming based on the latter that all those people explicitly agreed to it.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 08:04, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Lidija Dimkovska a mistake

Dear Editor On the presentation of me in Wikipedia in English I found the following: Her book of poems pH Neutral History was translated into English by Ljubica Arsovska and Peggy Reid. It won the Best Translated Book Award from the online literary journal Three Percent. There is a mistake that need to be cocrrected as soon as possible: It won the Best... - must be: It was shortlisted for the Best... So the book ddidn't win the award, it was only shortslisted. Please correct it. Thank you in advance,best regards, Lidija Dimkovska — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.212.141.225 (talk) 10:44, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing that out, and congratulations on the nomination. We'll make the correction. Dbfirs 11:28, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Why can't I revert an edit?

Just wondering why this edit cannot be undone? I get a message saying The edit could not be undone due to conflicting intermediate edits . Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 13:57, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello Ottawahitech. The Undo feature attempts to revert or undo a particular specified edit, leaving everything else unchanged. If later edits have also changed the same (or nearby) text, the program isn't smart enough to undo the particular edit without also affecting those later edits. You could still revert to the version prior to the edit, although that would revert all subsequent changes, and is usually not a good idea. You could carefully note the changes made by the edit in question, and manually undo them. In this case since the edit simply changed a category, and the category that it was changed from was later added separately, you need only delete any cats you think do not apply. However, since this area has already been the subject of reverts, i would suggest applying WP:BRD and discuss on the article talk page what categories the article should be in. DES ^(talk) 15:18, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for responding, DES. The reason I like to Undo instead of simply re-editing is that Undo's notify the editor whose edit one is reverting that their edit has been reverted. I prefer this method even though it takes extra work for me in most cases. Ottawahitech (talk) 22:27, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Can Audiopedia links be added? are they automatically added?

Can audiopedia articles be linked/templated into wikipedia articles? Is there a bot doing so?

I found Audiopedia videos of spoken wikipedia articles meant for the blind.

Audiopedia seems to be sponsored by the BBC. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8865357/BBC-to-open-vast-radio-archive-online.html

There is an Audiopedia user https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Audiopedia

here is an example wikipedia spoken recording. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOgcIIy4mtw&ab_channel=Audiopedia

Informati:on https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV63FScHnShoobfaENC8R_Q/about Description We provide a free service targeted to blind and visually-impaired internet users. Wikipedia is the largest database of knowledge ever known to mankind, and yet it is essentially inaccessible to individuals with limited vision. Note that all text is licensed under CC-BY-SA, and all images are also creative commons (various licenses).

Thank you,CuriousMind01 (talk) 16:24, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Hey CuriousMind01. That YouTube channel is unconnected with Wikipedia, and it is a copyright violation of Wikipedia, so we would certainly never properly link to them, automatically or otherwise. However, the copyright issue could be fixed to give proper attribution to Wikipedia's authors under our licenses (they do make an attempt to comply at their about page, woefully short of the mark). Wikipedia already has spoken versions of articles, and, as of now, there are 1,165 in the category for them. We also have a project dedicated to producing them. I do see some advantages to having a YouTube channel for others. For example, any normal format can be uploaded to YouTube using a billion devices, whereas there are many hoops to jump through here, because of the requirements that the upload be in a free and open-source software codec and container (see Vorbis & Ogg). Also, even though a human's reading is almost always many times better than a program's, it can be tasked with creating them 24 hours a day and allow access for people where they don't have it now. But even if we concede that, it would be better to have such a program to do so here rather than linked to off-site. I would support setting that up but as with everything here, it requires someone willing to take the time and having the know-how to do it.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 17:05, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Audiopedia doesn't seem to be in any copyright violation per the terms in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights, because the content is offered by WP for free to all.

I think what they are doing is legal, creating computer generated spoken WP text articles, offered for free for use of the blind, and citing the WP article name and an image. It would be great if WP did the same, like you wrote it takes time and skills. Thank you, CuriousMind01 (talk) 18:25, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi again CuriousMind01. As I said about that page "(they do make an attempt to comply at their about page, woefully short of the mark)". I actually linked for you the copyright policy page you linked back to me above, and have a quite a lot of experience in copyright enforcement, application and interpretation. I do think it's important for you to understand what the copyright issue is, so you, being involved and possibly in a position to help here – maybe even in some manner informing Audiopedia of the problem so they can become compliant and we could link their efforts – are armed with the knowledge to know what the problem actually is and how it can be fixed.

Wikipedia content is not "offered by WP for free to all". There are two basic problems with this statement. First, Wikipedia does not own the copyright to (the vast majority of) its content at all, its authors do, personally, whatever they contribute, so long as it is sufficiently creative to be subject to copyright protection. Second, most of that content is co-licensed under two free copyright licenses: the 1) CC-By-SA 3.0 Unported License, and under the GFDL, which, simplifying, require that copyright attribution be given to to the authors in a "reasonable manner" to comply with the licenses. We further agree by contributing, that such copyright attribution credit to us, the authors of an article, can be provided by (in addition to stating one or more free licenses they are reusing the content under), include a direct line notice of the page at this site where its page history is available, so that a person viewing the re-used content is informed of, and can easily and directly navigate to, the page being re-used and therefore can see the identity of the content authors in its history. This can be done by posting at the reuse site a) a hyperlink (where possible) or b) URL to the Wikipedia page or pages being re-used (emphasis added as this becomes important in the next paragraph), or c) a list of all authors, which you would find in the page history/ies (generally this last option is only done where a page has very few authors).

What this means in practice is that each one of the Audiopedia files needs a clear notice stating the license and saying what specific Wikipedia page its content comes from, by the methods I've outlined. This is not provided by vague notice somewhere that all text is "is licensed under CC-BY-SA". Every one of those videos is infringing on the copyright of the authors in the content of the page being read, and will be until a compliant full and direct notice is provided for the specific Wikipedia page by one of the methods I've outlined – it's really not all that difficult to comply but they don't come close. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 19:16, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Fuhghettaboutit. Copyright is a complicated subject(to me).

Are these statements correct? For each Audiopedia Youtube video speaking a Wikipedia article,Audiopedia would have to state they are complying with these 2 licenses: 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_3.0_Unported_License 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License and write the URL the wikipedia article which is being spoken (re-used).

State the intent of the spoken re-use is to assist the blind and visually impaired to make a use of Wikipedia articles, for free from Audiopedia.

Thanks again--CuriousMind01 (talk) 17:59, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

CuriousMind01, close but not quite. They would need to comply with at least one of those two license, they could select either or both. In either case, they would need to provide a link to the original page history, or the original Wikipedia page, which itself has a link to the history. A permalink to the version they used would be preferable. They would also need to be clear that their content is under the same license, and that people may use it on the same conditions. They would not need to state their intent, as Wikipedia's license are not in any way conditioned upon intent (they might want to, but that would be their choice). Indeed if they chose to charge for their services, Wikipedia's license would permit it if the above conditions were complied with.DES ^(talk) 18:26, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Correcting factual error

There's a small but significant error on Beepi, an article about a company where I have a paid consulting relationship.

I left a message on the article's Talk page, but Wikipedia:Contact_us_-_Subjects suggested using this page if a request was more urgent.

There's a conflict of sources because of an error in a source. The question is when there's a conflict, do you correct to the preponderance of sources or do you just omit the info altogether?

In the Beepi article, the last sentence has the Wall Street Journal reporting 2014 revenue for the company of $100 million. I know from the company this is incorrect and causing them a significant problem. Three other sources have the correct info:

I'd go with the preponderance of sources and change the 2014 to 2015, but I have WP: COI, as stated. Perhaps the correct course is to delete the whole sentence?BC1278 (talk) 20:45, 12 September 2015 (UTC)BC1278

References

I feel sorry for anyone who is making deals or business arrangements based upon what Wikipedia says. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:52, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Many individuals doing research on other companies use Wikipedia as a starting point because it's featured so prominently in search results by Google. And it pulls together various sources, saving time for a researcher. I've seen journalists pull whole paragraphs from Wikipedia and insert them into stories, which compounds the problem of errors in articles. So yes, incorrect information in an article can have a very major impact on a company, mostly because Google features Wikipedia articles so prominently. If you work on Wikipedia and know that articles can sometimes have lots of errors, you may lose site of how seriously outsiders can take the articles.BC1278 (talk) 21:08, 12 September 2015 (UTC)BC1278

I still feel sorry that internet literacy is so poor that anyone trusts Wikipedia. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:30, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

• I edited the article to include both statements, properly cited. This in my view is usually (but not always) the way to handle a conflict of sources. DES ^(talk) 22:25, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Can someone help fix an error?

Could someone help me fix ref four in Scottish Labour Party leadership election, 2014? The journal, New Left Review is a bi-monthly publication covering September and October 2014, but the various parameters (date=, month=, year=) don't seem to recognise this. Can someone help? Thanks in advance, This is Paul (talk) 22:01, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

• @This is Paul: You should be all set now. I split the year parameter into two separate parameters, month and year, and it worked. --Stabila711 (talk) 22:10, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

• That's great, thanks. This is Paul (talk) 22:14, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

• Just clarifying, "month" is deprecated. So I switched to "date=" which allows for some date range formats (but not all unfortunately, see Help:Citation_Style_1#Dates). GermanJoe (talk) 22:19, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

• Ah I was curious why you did that. I wasn't aware it was deprecated. Thanks for letting me know. --Stabila711 (talk) 22:23, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

• This is Paul, be sure to cite your source properly. If the template is stupid enough that it won't allow a proper citation in this situation, you need to write out the citation. Nyttend (talk) 11:32, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks, I'll keep it in mind. As the article is an FAC I wanted to do it properly, but if it won't allow it then what else can you do? This is Paul (talk) 13:06, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

• Nyttend, So far as i can see the template is, in this case, producing a perfectly accurate citation. A range of months can't be put into a month parameter, but then that parameter is deprecated anyway. A complete date, including a month range, can be and has been put into the date parameter. There are a few odd edge cases that the citation templates can't handle, but not many that I have seen in practice, and not this one. DES ^(talk) 18:17, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

• Okay, good then. The most important thing is that you include a full citation in accordance with whatever style guide you're following; the templates are only a tool for that purpose. Nyttend (talk) 19:29, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

• Absolutely true. I think they are often a useful tool, but they are only a tool, and not to be used if the fail to serve the needed purpose. DES ^(talk) 22:06, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

September 13

Editing area

Is the editing area monospaced when you edit a page? GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 01:55, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Click on the "Edit source" link by the title of this section.

See how the two lines below are displayed.

WWWWWWWWWWWWWW

iiiiiiiiiiiiii

QED

Rojomoke (talk) 05:22, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

It depends on your preferences and browser. Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing has the selection "Edit area font style". The default value is "Browser default" which is monospaced in most browsers. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:45, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Zero-width spaces

Special:WhatLinksHere/​ shows that the Chagos Archipelago article has a link to the zero-width space: not the article, but the space character itself, which is redirected to the ZWSP article. Where is it? I've looked through the article but can't find it. When I go to the WhatLinksHere page and search for the ZWSP character itself (it's in my clipboard, so I just remove everything in the "Find" box and paste in the ZWSP), my IE browser finds three instances, but if I do the same thing at the Chagos article, nothing comes up. Only seven pages link to the ZWSP character, and the rest are projectspace or userspace pages, not templates that might be transcluded at the Chagos article. Nyttend (talk) 11:42, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

The source has two &#8203; in weird parameter code which causes links by the infobox.[1] My Firefox indicates it finds the character on the rendered article but it's not visibly marked so I can only guess it's around the infobox. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:06, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

I've just undone the two edits by Rob984 that included the thing you mentioned. Now, WhatLinksHere doesn't include the archipelago, so you're clearly correct about the relationship. Nyttend (talk) 12:35, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Honestly I just wasn't sure how to do this, and I didn't figure the workaround would create a link. Apologies for any confusion. Rob984 (talk) 13:04, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Lupton family

Hi I have made some difficult edits on the above page and would really appreciate it if you could check them Thanks again M — Preceding unsigned comment added by Srbernadette (talk • contribs) 11:46, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

ref number 100 is a mess - what is wrong?

Please fix as I am too tired to think straight . Your help is always appreciated — Preceding unsigned comment added by Srbernadette (talk • contribs) 12:13, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Hey Srbernadette. It was a simple typo issue: 20115 → 2015. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:42, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Cassidy McFadzean

Hi all,

I'm having trouble editing this page I started, located here: Draft:Cassidy McFadzean

1) I'm finding that the bottom of the page is nesting in itself (why is it indented/ doing that?)

2) How do I attach a photo in the info box?

3) Am I submitting correctly / is it correctly under review?

Thank you all so, so much. I feel like a complete novice here...

J — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamcyu (talk • contribs) 19:47, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

• @Jamcyu: You forgot to close the ref at the end of the personal life section. This caused everything past that to be associated with the ref which caused the formatting issue. Always remember to close your refs with </ref>. As for a photo, you can search commons for a photo that is already uploaded. Remember, photos must be licensed under the correct copyright for us to be able to use them. If you find one you would put the image name into the infobox template information next to |image=. Once you are ready to submit your draft put {{subst:submit}} on the top of the article and hit save. This will put a notice on the top that will signal that the article is waiting for a review. If you have any other questions let me know. --Stabila711 (talk) 19:57, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Article nomination

Is it better to propose or nominate an article for deletion if I think it's quite likely not to belong in Wikipedia but not super sure, such as the article Creepypasta? Which is worse, no propose an article for deletion that was better to nominate for deletion, or to nominate one that should have been proposed? From what Wikipedia:Articles for deletion says, it seems like PROD should only be used by experienced editors who are super sure an article doesn't belong in Wikipedia, and that it's bad to PROD one that should have been nominated for deletion because I can't be sure someone else is going to be smart enough to contest the PROD before the article gets deleted instead of just trusting that I'm experienced enough to know it doesn't belong when I'm actually not, if it turns out it does belong in Wikipedia. On the other hand, I used to think Proposed deletion was a weaker indication that an article doesn't belong in Wikipedia that nomination for deletion and meant it's so unimportant that it get deleted that it should only get deleted if no one objects to its deletion, and that nominating an article that I think there's a small chance doesn't belong was worse than PRODing it because the PROD tag can be removed and doesn't waste so much of other people's time in a deletion discussion. Am I correct that no one should propose an article for deletion just because they're not sure enough that it doesn't belong in Wikipedia to be worthy of nominating for deletion, even if they have the plan not to nominate it for deletion if the PROD gets contested? Blackbombchu (talk) 23:00, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

The proposed for deletion process, as the deletion policy explains, is meant to be used for articles where the deletion should be uncontroversial or obvious, but the article does not meet any of the specified criteria for speedy deletion. If there is any reasonable likelihood that the requested deletion will be opposed, then it is a better idea to go ahead and nominate the article for deletion via Articles for Deletion, because any other editor can pull the PROD tag, but a deletion nomination runs to its 7-day conclusion. That is, in general, if you think that anyone else may disagree with your deletion rationale, it is better to get agreement and disagreement at AFD. In my own opinion, with the exception of the special case of WP:BLPPROD for unsourced biographies of living persons, there are fewer cases where PROD is appropriate than where either AFD or speedy deletion is appropriate. (That is, the main obvious reasons why deletion should be uncontroversial, in my opinion, are already in the criteria for speedy deletion.) That is my opinion. If you personally aren't sure whether the article belongs in Wikipedia, you definitely shouldn't PROD it, and maybe shouldn't nominate it for deletion. That is my opinion. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:04, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Given Wikipedia's systemic bias, low value, poorly sourced internet memes are highly likely to survive AFD. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 01:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

September 14

Vmoney

Good day,

I recently posted an article about a company called "Vmoney" it was tagged as advertising and taken down. I tried to oppose the tag by posting on the talk page but I was offered no clarification as to why exactly it was marked as advertising when the language used was neutral; I also received no advise on how to rectify the article. The page is currently only accessible to admins and I would like aid in either accessing this article and trying to post again or at least some pointers as to why the article was tagged as such.

Any response would be much appreciated.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vince Manning (talk • contribs) 05:57, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Good day,

I recently posted an article about a company called "Vmoney" it was tagged as advertising and taken down. I tried to oppose the tag by posting on the talk page but I was offered no clarification as to why exactly it was marked as advertising when the language used was neutral; I also received no advise on how to rectify the article. The page is currently only accessible to admins and I would like aid in either accessing this article and trying to post again or at least some pointers as to why the article was tagged as such.

Any response would be much appreciated.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vince Manning (talk • contribs) 06:54, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@Vince Manning: You could ask the admin who deleted it on his or her talk page. If you want to resubmit it and make sure that it would meet Wikipedia standards, you could go through the procedure as shown on WP:AFC where AFC reviewers like me can give comments to a draft and eventually accept it. The Average Wikipedian (talk) 09:03, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I agree with the above, but just a few exsamples. Phrases such as "The company's solutions provide a financial transaction platform that enables businesses and consumers to move money easily and instantly" and " VMoney was conceptualized to bring this service within the reach of a broader market" and "It envisioned equipping the unbanked with the capability to manage their finances and enable them to completely grasp and utilize the advantages of technology and modern day conveniences." and "...by using the latest technologies..." are highly promotional. The whole thing read like an advertising handout or web site for the business, not a neutral description. A "list of products" is rarely a good sign, for example, especially when some of them are only planned. Reliance on Press Releases or "news stories" directly based on PR as sources is also not a good idea. All of this is why (or part of why) people with conflict of interest are strongly discouraged from writing articles about their firms. They all too often create pages full of marketing-speak and honestly think it is neutral because it does not include intentional deception. DES ^(talk) 11:57, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

How do I award someone a barnstar

I have never done this before, and although I have looked up WP:BARNSTAR and so forth, it's not clear to me how I actually go about awarding one. I might (as a test) award one to myself, but particularly wanted to award one to User:Tavix for his constant help and good nature at WP:RFD. I know it can't be that difficult, I just have never have done it before. Si Trew (talk) 07:20, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@SimonTrew: The easiest method: go on their user page and click on the heart symbol next to the watchlist star. A helpful menu will pop up. The Average Wikipedian (talk) 09:03, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

The heart symbol only appears when you are on anothers user's talk page - as you can only add barnstars etc. there not in articles etc. If it does not appear, click the Preferences tab at the top, then Editing and check the third box down "Enable showing appreciation for other users with the WikiLove tab" and save - Confusingly, nothing appears to happen, as you are not on a users talk page. It will not appear until you go to another users talk page - you can't praise yourself, so it will not appear on your talk page - Arjayay (talk) 09:11, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I only use I don't know the kinda standard skin, I am not sure would that make a difference? I am not a complete idiot, just a general idiot. I use Mozilla Firefox as a browser. Tavix and I get along quite well, we don't always agree but we always disagree politely, so I just thought he or she I dunno I added one manually to their talk page but I probably cocked that up too, I couldn't work out how to add the message to the caption so I just gave up and added it manually below the barnstar. Si Trew (talk) 10:48, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

If you want to award a barnstar manually it isn't hard, Arjayay. Go to Wikipedia:Barnstars and select the barnstar you want to use. Copy code for it. Then go to the user talk page of the person you want to award a barnstar to, and open a new message thread (section), just as if you were leaving that person a message about a new topic. Choose an appropriate subject line. Paste in the barnstar code you copied from the Barnstart page. The edit the code to put in the desired caption/message. For example, to award the 'special barnstar, paste in {{subst:The Special Barnstar|message ~~~~}} (without the nowiki and code tags of course) then change "message" to your desired caption/message, usually starting with "For ...". I hope that helps. DES ^(talk) 11:44, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Err - thanks for the advice DES - I think you should have pinged Si Trew ? - Arjayay (talk) 11:51, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Oops, how embarrassing. My apologies, Arjayay. Si Trew I hope you find this helpful. DES ^(talk) 12:02, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Hehehe no problem to be. If you want to ask me how to create a {{rail template diagram}} or how to make a {{translated page}} then be my guest. I think, actually, it was Tavix who suggested about six months ago that I could maybe help out at the reference desk, cos I am a fountain of useless knowledge, and I hope that helps Wikipedia. Just kinda the obvious is nonobvious to me, yet ask me what is Harry S Truman's middle name (he hasn't one) and I just kinda know that. Si Trew (talk) 12:07, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Uh oh now I am off again because since he doesn't have a middle name it shouldn't be abbreviated with the stop.... oh well...

Referencing errors on Holiday in the Protectorate

Reference help requested. Re Holiday in the protectorate. Ref bot indicates URL errors I checked the references many times, the URLs I gave are all working I reset the CITE also mamny times so I do not know what the probnem is Thanks, Getthefatcsjones (talk) 07:43, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

 Done in this edit - your reference 12 started " /www " not " http://www " - Arjayay (talk) 08:48, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Converting a Google Books or Amazon URL to a book citation

Is there a tool available that can parse Google Books or Amazon.com pages to output proper book citations? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:41, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Google Books has a tool here.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:10, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:44, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Dodger67 I'm not aware of a tool that automatically converts an Amazon URL to a citation. I usually do it is a two-step process. First, I look at the Amazon page to find the ISBN, then use the following tool to create the Wikipedia citation. Note that it defaults to MLA so you have to click the radio button for Wikipedia. OttoBib-S Philbrick(Talk) 15:32, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Sphilbrick Thanks, I also use Ottobib or simply the "Cite" menu in the edit window. I was hoping someone might have devised a tool that automagically extracts the ISBN from an Amazon page. I really wish editors could easily grasp "cite the book, not the book shop". Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:52, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Abbreviating journal cites with large number of authors

What is the ideal way to shorten {{cite journal}} references when the source has a large number of authors? There are 73 authors in one of the reference at Draft:Gene of uncertain significance. -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:47, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I found it! Use the "display-authors" parameter. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:30, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I want to translate an article I couldn't find a way to add new languages to an article. Can you help me please?

Hi,

I just read an article there is only in English. I know how to edit already but I could not find a way to translat that article and add in the other languges list. Can you please help me?

By the way, this is the article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_resistance

Regards,

Newton — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newton Galvao (talk • contribs) 15:04, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Newton Galvao - The guide for translating English Wikipedia articles to other languages is WP:Translate us. You should also look for the corresponding guidelines of the other language Wikipedia. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Editing George Klein Entry

Good morning, I am a newbie who just submitted something to Wikipedia which has been declined. Can you tell me why and what I can do to make it suitable for inclusion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vivalasdivas (talk • contribs) 15:28, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@Vivalasdivas: Good morning, but you actually need to write an article for it to be accepted. Can't help with the browser issue - I use Firefox, what do you use? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:51, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@Vivalasdivas: - There are several articles already on Wikipedia about people named George Klein. Before you start a new draft please check that there isn't already an article about the person you intend writing about. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:20, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Libya

Hello: I would like to see that the page concerning the country of Libya is updated. There are over 6,000,000 people who live there, and they were poorly represented by former "colonel" Muammar Gaddaffi of Sirte,Libya, who was forcibly removed from power in 2011, by Libyan Nationals who are presently fighting a civil war after capturing Gaddaffi's intelligence chief and co-leader of terrorism for years Senoussi, and Gaddaffi's son who will go on trial for treason and crimes against humanity.

My brother Mark Tobin was among the 270 murdered in the Lockerbie, Scotland bombing December 1988, and I was elected to the Bd. of Directors of the Victims of Pan Am Flight #103 and met with former Sec. State Albright, Nat. Sec. Adviser Sandy Berger, and UN Ambassador Bill Richardson over the years to keep diplomatic and economic sanctions enforced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.207.219.102 (talk) 16:07, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

You could state what updates you would like to see, preferably on the article's talk page. It will help if you provide references to reliable independent published sources in support of the changes you propose. Maproom (talk) 16:17, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

How to create a personal Bio page

How would I create a page with my own personal information? I am the Owner and Founder of my own company and would like to share my information, as well as give others the Opportunity to get to know more about my success and how I originally started. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JoshuaOMcClendon (talk • contribs) 16:30, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, you're welcome to do that on your own home page, but creating a Wikipedia article to promote yourself and your company is not encouraged, as then Wikipedia becomes advertisements, not an encyclopedia. StuRat (talk) 16:34, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

To expand little on what StuRat has said, JoshuaOMcClendon: you may if you choose share something about yourself as a Wikipedia editor on your User page (which I think is what StuRat meant by your 'home page'), but while a certain leeway is allowed, it should not contain a lot of content unrelated to Wikipedia. If you're talking about creating an article about yourself, then I must tell you that autobiography is very strongly discouraged. One way of looking at it is to realise that Wikipedia has very little interest in what you wish to say about yourself: if there is an article about you, it should be drawn almost entirely from what people unconnected with you have published about you. If there is a substantial amount of published material about you, by people with no connection with you (and that excludes interviews with you and article based on press releases from you or your company) then somebody could write a Wikipedia article about you, based on that independent material; if such material does not exist, or is exiguous, then it is impossible at present to write an acceptable article about you - in Wikipedia jargon, that would mean that you are "not notable". If there is the material to ground an article, you are still discouraged from writing it (you may request an article at requested articles); but if you want to try, I would strongly urge you to use the article wizard and submit your draft for review. --ColinFine (talk) 16:51, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

JoshuaOMcClendon, While I don't know what StuRat meant above, if I had written that I would have been suggesting that the proper place for such a page was a personal web site in no way connected with Wikipedia. Then if soemoen else thought a Wikipedia article was appropriate, that person could coite your page along with independent reliable sources that discuss you in detail. I do endorse the suggestion that if you ry here, you use the article wizard. DES ^(talk) 16:57, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Treatment of politician articles, particularly around elections

What should be the main aim of an article about a politician up for election? Should it be biographical or informative about their experience and record with respect to the position they're standing for?

Obviously, both are important and there's a lot of overlap.

I am looking for WP policy/principle documents.

If this question is too abstract, here's the context: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGeorge_Ferguson_%28Mayor_of_Bristol%29&type=revision&diff=680948835&oldid=680538650 WykiP (talk) 17:16, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

We are an encyclopedia. Period. We are NOT a candidate advocacy/smear platform nor a voterguide. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 17:29, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

IMHO we should actually simply prohibit the creation of new articles about politicians while they are candidates for election - "Try again, after the election" - and strictly limit editing of existing politician bios during election campaigns. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:59, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

II agree. If you're asking about the architectural background to this person before they became a politician then it should remain. As long as everything is factual and cited then it's not right to remove biographical information just because you don't thinks it's relevant. The page should be an accurate biography AND record of a person their life and their actions. Whether they are up for election or not the information should be the same, in fact it is MORE important that an article like this is correct and complete ahead of an election.

Maltaman67 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maltaman67 (talk • contribs)

Citing references

I am working on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinfandel_Advocates_and_Producers

I am seeing a note that states "This article does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (September 2015)"

I believe I have added citations

Also, there is a note "This article has not been added to any categories. Please help out by adding categories to it so that it can be listed with similar articles. (August 2015)"

I believe I have added categories.

Not sure what I am doing wrong. THanks in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertXTrent (talk • contribs) 17:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

• @RobertXTrent: Those alerts and banners are not automatic. They are placed (and removed) by hand. If you have fixed the problems you can removed the templates. --Stabila711 (talk) 17:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertXTrent (talk • contribs) 17:38, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

You're not doing anything wrong. But the organisation you are seeking to create an article about simply isn't notable. I have nothing against Zinfandel, indeed I am drinking some right now. I really hope it does not acquire the negative reputation of Beaujolais nouveau, it certainly doesn't deserve it. But a promotional organisation, however worthy its cause, is unlikely to be notable in Wikipedia's sense. Maproom (talk) 21:53, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

How do I add a deletion discussion to a deletion sorting page properly?

I used Twinkle to nominate Creepypasta for deletion but didn't use Twinkle to add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Creepypasta (4th nomination)}} to Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Internet and instead inserted it manually thinking a BOT would add a note to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Creepypasta (4th nomination) saying its debate was included in the page I added it to. Am I supposed to use Twinkle to include the debate in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Creepypasta (4th nomination) in such a way that that note gets inserted into the dabate? If so, I don't know how. Blackbombchu (talk) 17:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

NEED INFO

Hello i want to own a portion of wikipedia, how do i buy shares of this company? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.156.196.101 (talk) 20:43, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

For information about the Wikimedia Foundation, a nonprofit charitable organization, see https://wikimediafoundation.org. General Ization ^Talk 20:46, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

• Wikipedia is not a publicly traded company. There are no shares to buy. You can make a donation to the Wikimedia Foundation here but that does not give you any ownership of anything on Wikipedia. --Stabila711 (talk) 20:47, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Reliable References?

Hi! I've recently created a wiki article about a celebrity and although I believe I have added reliable resources for the most part(online magazines,official website which includes his profile) wikipedia is convinced that my sources are not verified...is there any chance of doing sth to prevent its deletion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Tae-yong — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:214C:820A:1500:F106:EA30:5994:657A (talk) 21:29, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

• The BLPPROD can be taken off once one reliable source is found. The ones you have now don't really make the cut. Twitter should never be used in a Wikipedia article. Secondly, allkpop says right on their website that they are "the premier source for all the latest K-pop celebrity gossip and news." You want to avoid any site that literally says they are a gossip site. Once you eliminate those, the only references you are left with are primary sources. The best sources are secondary sources. See WP:PRIMARY for the explanation why the smrookies site is acceptable only if it is backed up by another, secondary, source. There is also the issue of verifying the notability of this person. If they do not meet the notability standards set for a musician the page will be deleted regardless of the references. Please read the notability standards and ensure that they meet them. --Stabila711 (talk) 21:47, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

• Did you read the page on Reliable sources? Many of the sources in the article are self published (e.g. the SMrookies website, or his twitter feed). The rest are from websites that have been determined to be unreliable sources (allkpop.com describes itself as a celebrity gossip website). In fact, see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 121#allkpop.com for a discussion on allkpop in particular. Reliable sources are those that are published independently of the article subject (i.e. the subject has no input or editorial control), and which have a reputation for fact-checking.

Is there an article on this person in the Korean Wikipedia? If so, what sources does it use? Reliable sources don't have to be in English. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 21:49, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

• Other Wikipedia articles are not reliable sources so don't use them. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 21:55, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Lack of information concerning pre-Confederation Newfoundland General Elections

Mon., Sept. 14th, 2015. Dear Wikipedia; I have tried to access your Wikipedia resources for information touching upon the final results of general elections in Newfoundland during the Pre-Confederation( i.e. prior to the dominion's joining Confederation in 1949), and have noticed that THIS information is UTTERLY lacking). By this I refer to: 1. ONLY the winning candidate's name is given, as opposed to any(all)opposition candidates that ran(I can assure you that Newfoundland WAS a multi-party state THROUGHOUT its history), and 2. The TOTAL results(candidates and vote tallies for ALL candidates) from the 1946 National Convention are UTTERLY ignored, despite this being indubitably a pertinent element in the island territory's history vis-a-vis its relationship with Canada). I would think you could issue a call to ANY of your Canadian contributors(or perhaps YOU yourselves could undertake this endeavor) to search for a set of "The Encyclopedia of Newfoundland and Labrador", from which they (OR you) could glean the necessary information to add to the Wikipedia section on the subject at hand. I think you would find MANY people curious to study that part of North American history who DO NOT have the benefit of possessing the aforementioned encyclopedia themselves. On a related matter, Here in Winnipeg, I have found it ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to access MORE DETAILED results from provincial elections from provinces BESIDES MANITOBA, although I hope to be proven wrong. PLEASE try to add the aforementioned data to your vast universe of knowledge. Thank you VERY MUCH. Sincerely, Mr. David Martineau. Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. PS IF you folks STILL use (or know about) written mail, I would appreciate a written reply. For mailing information, I will be happy to guide you.