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Help needed: Speedy Deletion nomination of new page, account of editor blocked and previous changes discarded

Dear community,

I am reaching out for your expert advice to help solve an issue my client has landed into. Points listed below give an account of events in chronological order:

-An employee at my client's edited his company page with information to reflect new development in terms of revenue, geographical presence, etc., edited language at places to make it more suitable, added current citations for both old and new edits, organized the page with tabular layouts for sections like Board of Directors, Board members, etc.

-These edits were accepted without any issue.

-He then went on to edit the page of his company's Co-founder and chairman, and again made edits to reflect new information. The new information/edits included - information pertaining to early life and career, awards & recognition and Social work.

-These edits also got accepted without any issue.

-After two or three weeks, he developed content for another co-founder of the company, and created a page for him on Wikipedia. This time however, the page got nominated for deletion, and his profile is said to be indefinitely blocked.

-The administrator who nominated the co-founder's page for deletion also banned this editor's profile and discarded all his recent edits made on the company and company's chairman's page.

-This employee of my client's has reached out to me for help, so I am writing here to get your expert thoughts on how can I best handle this.

From my understanding and knowledge of how Wikipedia works and the policy and guidelines to edits content or to create new page, I can say that the edits made on company page and those on the co-founder page do not seem to violate any guidelines, the one concern I have though is that this employee who made the edits did not disclose his conflict of interest, which he should have done to begin with.

There is a big issue with the new page creation, because their earlier attempt I am told was rejected I think a year or two back. They tried creating the page again by changing the content to make it plain and non-promotional. Added proper reference links too. Their point is that the other co-founder (whose page got deleted) is also a prominent figure (no less than the co-founder who has the page up) and is well covered by the media; journalists and people also look for him, and there is need and a solid case to have a separate Wikipedia page for him.

I am thinking to follow the below steps to help. And please I request you all to guide me here to make the best, ethical decision:

1. Ask the client's employee to go through Wikipedia guidelines and policies thoroughly, especially the ones which led to this situation. 2. Ask the client's employee to appeal for getting his account unblocked. And in this appeal he should disclose that he had conflict of interest. And such mistakes will not be repeated. 3. Appeal to the administrator to have a closer look at the edits made on the company page and co-founder page (which all she/he rejected) and instead of rejecting everything, advise on making them better suited for Wikipedia if she/he finds there are specific issue with certain edit(s). 4. To create a page for the other co-founder, I can advice the client to first analyze if there is a solid case to have a separate page for this person, and if there is a good case, they can start by creating a page at Special:Mypage/co-founder which can allow other editors to contribute while the page gets developed, instead of controlling the content themselves.

Your advice is much appreciated. Looking forward to hear back. Thank you!

Yours faithfully,

- Fahad

PS. My apologies, I can not yet disclose the pages and editor's profile referred to here, but if you feel it is mandatory and will help resolve the issue in any way, I can put it here. Fahadmonibsiddiqui (talk) 11:12, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Fahadmonibsiddiqui, it would be good if your client's employee could post here on this page (though not in this section, if you want to maintain anonymity), explaining what has happened and asking for well-informed advice. But he can't, if his account (Wikipedia doesn't do profiles) has been blocked. I'm somewhat surprised that an inexperienced editor has been blocked for undisclosed paid editing. But there may be aspects that I don't know about. Maproom (talk) 11:52, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your response @Maproom. As per my knowledge, he is not getting paid exclusively for wiki edits. I think he got this as an additional responsibility to his job role. And yes, his experience is limited only to editing which is the easier part, becoming acquainted with and complying with the policy is the hard part, which I think is not a common practice. Hence, the good work by administrators, and responsible editors is needed. I'll request the client's employee to explain in a suitable forum, but right now, I need help to understand which steps to follow in a case like this. Fahadmonibsiddiqui (talk) 12:29, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Fahadmonibsiddiqui. When you write that "These edits were accepted without any issue", are you aware that most edits aren't subject to any form of approval process? It's likely that the edits concerned just went unnoticed.

You also write that "From my understanding and knowledge of how Wikipedia works and the policy and guidelines to edits content or to create new page, I can say that the edits made on company page and those on the co-founder page do not seem to violate any guidelines, the one concern I have though is that this employee who made the edits did not disclose his conflict of interest, which he should have done to begin with". That final part is very important. Undisclosed paid editing is a violation of the site's terms of use. Please see WP:PAID on this (it also strikes me that the requirement to make the disclosure also likely applies to you). Cordless Larry (talk) 12:38, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

it also strikes me that the requirement to make the disclosure also likely applies to you
It certainly does! Dutchy45 (talk) 12:44, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Larry. Thanks for your response. "It's likely that the edits concerned just went unnoticed." but I have checked these edits and it seems they have made updates which do not qualify as promotional. These seem like necessary updates, and I think regular updates are made by different brands everyday as part of the hygiene to keep the information up-to-date, and my client's attempt probably was not very different. Having said that, please note, I was not involved with the client until the issue surfaced.

I am not sure if the edits made by the employee qualifies as "paid edits" as this was given as an additional responsibility to him, he does a completely different job.

Can you please advice how can we approach this step-by-step? Fahadmonibsiddiqui (talk) 13:36, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

You stated that the edits were accepted, Fahadmonibsiddiqui, and I pointed out that there isn't an acceptance process (unless they were requested via an edit request, perhaps?). You're now stating that they were necessary, but that's a different matter.

Edits made by an employee are paid edits. Both you and your client need to make the required disclosure. Your client can then appeal their block and promise not to edit the relevant articles directly, but to use the edit request process as outlined at WP:COIREQ. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:51, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Larry. This is helpful. I'll ensure the procedure is followed correctly moving forward. If you have any other advise please share. Fahadmonibsiddiqui (talk) 15:07, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing may be of interest. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:03, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@Fahadmonibsiddiqui As CordlessLarry says, "paid editing" is not restricted to cases where someone is paid per edit. Edits made by unpaid interns are "paid edits", and so are edits made by company owners. WP has its own lingo... 71.228.112.175 (talk) 05:08, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

@Fahadmonibsiddiqui: Please also see Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1160#Editing employer or client page and the responses you received in that thread. Before you do anything else, please read the information under the heading "Managing a conflict of interest" on your user talk page, and as a matter of priority, make the necessary disclosures. Thank you. --bonadea contributions talk 17:01, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

help with photo caption

I am editing this page and need to credit the photographer even though the image is open source. How do I do that so it doesn't get deleted?

Someone keeps deleting the photographer credit, over and over. It's the top photo on this page (with Adrienne Rich): Susan Sherman

Thank you!

Tamar Ovaryian (talk) 18:18, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ovaryian, the place to credit the photographer - if it is required - is not in the caption in the article, but on Commons where the image is hosted. I note that you uploaded it as "own work", which is apparently not the case. 97.113.27.216 (talk) 18:34, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! That's very helpful Ovaryian (talk) 19:52, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello again Ovaryian. I'm afraid it's not as simple as you are suggesting on c:COM:Deletion requests/File:Adrienne Rich and Susan Sherman.jpg. You have made the legal assertion I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following license, which now appears not to be true.

I don't know if Commons will accept changing the licence on the file, or whether it will have to be deleted and uploaded again; but in either case, you must provide evidence that it is licensed in a manner consistent with Commons' requirements: that the copyright holder has either explicitly placed it in the public domain, or explicitly released it under a free licence such as CC-BY-SA. I suggest you reply on that Commons discussion page, citing where the explicit release of the image is to be found. ColinFine (talk) 20:23, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! I appreciate your help. Learning as a go. I certainly did not intend to mislead about the provenance of the photo. I believe the photographer has emailed her release, but I'll do as you suggested as well. Ovaryian (talk) 01:28, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ovaryian, @ColinFine What does "open source" mean for an image, if anything? A mis-naming of "public domain", perhaps? 71.228.112.175 (talk) 05:19, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't know that it means anything. I too guess that the writer is thinking of "public domain", or maybe is unaware of the difference between public domain and a free licence. ColinFine (talk) 21:46, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

User translating English pages to Igbo

I came across a page (Cedrus atlantica) written in Igbo. It turns out the user @Winniejovita has been translating pages into Igbo. They have only started recently and only changed two pages so far. I reverted their edit to the cedar article, and the other one was already reverted.

However, I think there is a high chance that this isn't a case of purposeful vandalism, considering the effort put in to make the edits and the user's page. Therefore, I have put a notice on their talk page telling them to instead create the articles on the Igbo Wikipedia[1]. I think they might be valuable editor for the development of that language's Wikipedia, bearing in mind that it only has around 1500 pages according to Wikidata. I'm a relatively new editor myself so if anyone more experienced has any ideas or wants to help then that would be great. I think it would be of much benefit to the Igbo Wikipedia if someone walked them through how to translate pages between different language Wikipedias so they could contribute properly. MimiKal797 (talk) 02:16, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, MimiKal797. Instructions for translating articles from the English language Wikipedia to Wikipedia versions in other languages can be found at Wikipedia:Translate us. Can you share this link with the other editor? Cullen328 (talk) 06:26, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much @MimiKal797, i am in touch with the Igbo community and will make the effort to connect with the editor to guide them. Thanks for pointing this out. Best. OtuNwachinemere (talk) 21:32, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Other evidence of notability for films

Hi, I want clarity over "The film has received a major award for excellence in some aspect of filmmaking" guideline. What exactly are these aspects of filmmaking other than production? Do they include direction, music, cinematography, screen writing, acting, or others? ... Would a film meet this criterion if it receives awards for categories like, "best actor award", "best playback singer award", or "best musician award"? Thanks. Insight 3 (talk) 04:04, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Insight 3. Pay special attention to the General principles section of that notability guideline. In the end, it is the quality of the reliable, independent sources and the depth of the coverage in those sources that establishes notability. The standards established in the various special notability guidelines are to provide editors with a convenient yardstick for determing whether or not a certain topic is likely to be notable, not that it is guaranteed to be notable. With regards to awards given to films, the significance of the overall award is much more important than the specific category of the award. It is difficult to imagine a film that won three Academy Awards in any category not being notable. On the other hand, it is easy to imagine a low budget film made in a rural county winning a few awards at a regional film award ceremony but not receiving significant coverage elsewhere. In other words, film awards are an indicator of notability, not a guarantee of notability. Cullen328 (talk) 06:07, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. Ok, I understand a film must meet the primary criteria of notability first. But my question is about the nature of different categories of awards a film may receive. For example, it is clear that if a film gets "best film award", it adds to its notability. But if a film only receives a "best actor award", would the award then enhance the notability of the film or it would go to the actor's credit? Insight 3 (talk) 07:00, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Insight 3, any major award in a major category awarded to a film means that the film is highly likely to be notable. It is difficult to imagine a film that won for "Best Actor in a Motion Picture" at the Golden Globe Awards not receiving sufficient coverage in reliable sources to establish notability. Do you have a specific situation in mind, or is this all hypothetical? Specific situations are best for Teahouse discussion. Cullen328 (talk) 07:22, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, there is an AfD discussion going on for a Nigerian film. The film has won 2 awards in acting categories. Though I agree it lacks basic media coverage, but a participant's remarks regarding the awards made me confused:"Beside, the award was NOT for the film itself (or any "aspect of filmmaking" per WP:NFO#3), its two wins are for acting. Do you create an article for "Best Kiss in a Movie" winner too?...". Insight 3 (talk) 10:55, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Insight 3, so this is about Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lucifer (2019 Nigerian film). It is interesting that there is no Wikipedia article about the actor who won the award. In all honesty, I see a lot of weak reasoning in that debate on both sides. What is completely lacking in the discussion is any evidence that the film received significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. I clicked on two of the references in the article and was taken to websites infected with malware. That discourages additional investigation. Cullen328 (talk) 15:42, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Well, that discussion has been closed as no consensus. Now what I have understood from your previous reply is that it doesn't matter what's the category (whether direction, story, music, acting, or whatever) of the award a film receives, all that matters is how much media coverage that film gets as a result of winning any award. Am I right? Insight 3 (talk) 10:40, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

@Insight 3 Acting is not an aspect of filmmaking? Sure, the acting is done by the actors, but then, the cinematography is done by the cinematographers, and the special effects by the SFX people. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 05:44, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Climate Change article editing

Hello, Teahouse. I would please request your permission to edit the main "Climate Change" article. I have background in meteorology and graduate level climatology. My focus is on "Droughts in California" which I have begun to edit due to incorrect or inapplicable information about the climate of California and causes of drought. I need to direct this page to the main pages on "Climate of California" and "Climate Change" for background that is not specific to California, possibly to other relevant pages. I will need to delete much of the content of the Climate Change section of the "Droughts in California" page since the content does not relate to California and comes across biased for that reason. I have just edited the disambiguation for global warming to clarify that global warming is one type of climate change (the terms are not interchangeable) and would like to add this detail to the "Climate Change" article; and further specify two types of climate change as natural and anthropogenic (man-made) since climate change occurred before greenhouse gasses were released by human industry. I will provide examples of natural climate change. I have also seen there is a call for climate experts, and I do see by my perusal the need on Wikipedia to improve the content surrounding climate. I am beginning my endeavors with the "Droughts in California" page. I may possibly be able to involve other academics in Wikipedia articles once I have entered material on level for review. FinancialCents (talk) 21:20, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @FinancialCents and welcome to the Teahouse. You do not need anyone's permission to edit. Technical articles are alway in need of expert input, but please read Wikipedia:Expert editors first. This is quite different from writing technical papers. As an encyclopedia, our articles summarize published reliable sources (usually secondary), do not include original research, and do not draw conclusions that are not in the sources. Your examples will need to be provided using already published sources. We are happy to have you here. StarryGrandma (talk) 21:38, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

@FinancialCents: Hi there! The Climate change article is semi-protected. Once your account is at least four days old and you have made at least ten edits to Wikipedia, your account will become autoconfirmed and you will be able to edit the article. Thank you for your work to improve Wikipedia! GoingBatty (talk) 23:02, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes I see now that I am autoconfirmed. The notes and warnings led me to believe otherwise. My edits were not accepted by other editors, so I have moved to the Talk page of the Climate Change article. I am going by university course teachings by PhD researchers and also with core texts Meteorology Today (Ahrens, Hansen) and Climatology (Rohli, Vega). My input is not politicized. FinancialCents (talk) 23:46, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

I doubt that university course teachings can be used as references. David notMD (talk) 00:52, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

David notMD Presumably you mean that unrecorded, oral presentations in teaching courses are iffy, because they are not verifiable. However, recorded presentations, or slides of teaching materials, or textbooks certainly are acceptable, and used in a lot of articles. See for instance the first six references of the article Electric field.

Of course, recent research in reputable scholarly journals trumps such sources, but in the absence of a disagreement between sources, teaching material is fine. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 09:53, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

I sit corrected. I would have replied "I stand corrected," but first, I am sitting, and second, I am puzzled as to why "I stand corrected" is correct, even though I just found out that its origin is a play from the 1600s. David notMD (talk) 12:19, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Surely "stand" (and n. "stance") is here used in a metaphorical sense to refer to one's mental 'position' on a philosophical, ideological or intellectual matter. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.131.160 (talk) 13:51, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

I have seen signs in a sidewalk, in cities, that say "Bus stop - no standing". Apparently "standing" covers a lot of positions. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 05:49, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Bella Hadid

Hello, i saw Bella Hadid article and it seems like an error on her biography. I mean, her middle name is 'Khair' not 'Khairiah'. proof : 1, 2, 3 and even her instagram biography is : Isabella Khair Hadid. Can you change it please? Thank you :) Datsofelija (talk) 15:37, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Datsofelija, you can change it yourself. See WP:BRD. Sungodtemple (talk) 15:41, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Datsofelija, and welcome to the Teahouse. I agree that those sources say that her name is "Khair", but in the existing citation no 4 in the article, her father says that it's "Khairiah". It's always a bit of a problem to know what to do when the sources disagree. ColinFine (talk) 16:01, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, @Sungodtemple & @ColinFine, thank you for your replies, i know i can change it myself, the goal of wikipedia but i wanted to share the things with you all and sharing opinions... And yeah, her dad told in interview but only in one interview, no more... so.. what count? Datsofelija (talk) 16:45, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Is theamericanreporter.com a reliable source?

Greetings all,

I have been doing clean-ups mostly, and gradually building my understanduing of Wikipedia. After reading Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources, I have developed much of the understanding of the reliable sources, however, I am still fuzzy about "The American Reporter", after having an argument with one of my friends... If anyone could be helpful, I would be very grateful.

Thanks in advance. 24GT (talk) 21:56, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, 24GT. The Teahouse is not really the place to discuss this. Please ask at WP:RSN. ColinFine (talk) 22:21, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Ok. Thank you. 24GT (talk) 17:58, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Photo spacing in User Sandbox

I know I may ask many questions and I appreciate everyone's patience with me, but is anyone familiar with the spacing between pictures in a photo montage? I am putting |border = 0 and |spacing = 0 and they are still widely separated, at least in the wiki sandbox. Or, if I publish this montage, will the spacing go away? Thanks

[2] The ganymedian (talk) 00:26, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi The ganymedian, welcome to the Teahouse. You haven't saved anything in User:The ganymedian/sandbox so we cannot see what you did. Use the "Publish page" button. It's just a save button. The name means others can see it but it will still be your sandbox and not part of the encyclopedia. "Publish page" and "Show preview" look the same with rare exceptions which probably aren't relevant here. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:49, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @PrimeHunter, I have made this collage public for yours or anyone's consideration. Thank you for your help. The ganymedian (talk) 03:44, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@The ganymedian: I made some changes [3] to be more like Template:Photo montage#Example 2: optional parameters. You are free to revert or modify my changes. When images are passed to a template like Template:Photo montage, the template often only wants the image name and adds its own image formatting which should be omitted in the call. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:20, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter Much appreciated, thank you very much! The ganymedian (talk) 05:33, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter May you know of a way to get rid of the black spaces between the rows of pictures, or is that just the way it will be without choosing different pictures? Thanks again The ganymedian (talk) 05:44, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I think I answered my own question. Thanks again. The ganymedian (talk) 06:40, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@The ganymedian: {{Photo montage}} has no feature to avoid such spaces when images in the same row have different height to width ratios. They would have to be displayed at different widths to get the same height but the template cannot do it. There is an old request at Template talk:Photo montage#White spaces when heights differ. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:08, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Does the artist Sewerslvt meet the notability guidelines for article creation?

They've got a pretty big fanbase, but their work (and even whole genre) are still what you could call 'underground.' They're pretty important as a 'niche' artist and very influential in the industrial/noise scene, but the fact they never really went fully mainstream means that there aren't a lot of other big time sources referencing them; should I attempt article creation, or does this seem likely to be rejected? Taurterus (talk) 02:34, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@Taurterus: If the artist doesn't meet any of the inclusion criteria in WP:NARTIST (and more generally, WP:GNG), then, no. The size of the fanbase is irrelevant. Fame does not equate to notability. Notability is determined by the amount of independent coverage the artist gets in reliable sources. See Wikipedia:Golden rule for an overview of what is expected. ~Anachronist (talk) 04:26, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@Taurterus: Poor articles at Sewerslvt have been moved to drafts or deleted three times. There are currently two different drafts at Draft:Sewerslvt and Draft:Sewerslvt (Artist). PrimeHunter (talk) 14:49, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Looking at the drafts I could definitely expand on the info, but it seems like even they had issues finding larger references/citations. Probably better to just leave it be, then. Thanks for the the help Taurterus (talk) 16:08, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Park Systems Wikipedia Page Modification

Hello,

I'm a PR manager at Park Systems.

There are a several updates regarding to our Park Systems Wikipedia contents, and I would liek to make some modifications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Systems is our company wikipedia page.

The parts that we would like to modify are those sections as below.

- Park Systems Corporation - Products - History

Besides those mentioned parts, more modifcations can be made.

Please verify the availability and let me know.

Thanks, Park Systems Parksystems1997 (talk) 06:48, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Parksystems1997, thank you for not editing the page directly, and for asking here instead. What you should do is go to Talk:Park Systems, and say there exactly what changes you hope for, specifying a reliable source for each. As an (of course completely fictional) example:

Please replace:

Park Systems was founded in 1997 by Sang-il Park.^{[citation needed]}

with:

The company was founded, as Park Electrostatics, in 1996 by Park Sang-il and Park Seong-ju. It changed its name to Park Systems one year later.

Reference: Bae Jung-shin, "Park Systems wins major US contract", The Korea Times, 22 July 2022, p. 6.

-- Hoary (talk) 08:02, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

To add to what Hoary says, if you mark your request with the template {{edit request}}, it will be put on a list and is more likely to get noticed. See WP:Edit request for more details. ColinFine (talk) 10:05, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I just checked our Park Systems WIKIPEDIA Website and realized that the contents were already removed. I only asked questions for the availability to work in the future, not right now. Please restore the preview content as soon as possible. Parksystems1997 (talk) 05:57, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Some unsourced content was removed from the article, Parksystems1997, but the article itself hasn't been deleted: Park Systems. Cordless Larry (talk) 06:16, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Please leave the content as it is now. The overall content will be edited with proper citation. Parksystems1997 (talk) 06:38, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Also, I undersetand the username policy and will no longer edit or post Park Systems related content no more. Parksystems1997 (talk) 06:40, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

You have not done as requested, instead you have re-added unsourced and poorly sourced content to the article, you do not own the article, it is Wikipedia's article about your company. Theroadislong (talk) 06:50, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

This is quite embrassing. The content had no proble until recently and now we can't restore it. I'd be very much apprecited if you can give us a bit of period to gather the citation. Parksystems1997 (talk) 07:08, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Blocked for promotional editing and not complying with various policies. 97.113.27.216 (talk) 12:18, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Move photo collage to existing Wikipedia article

Hey all- How do I move my photo collage that I created in my wiki sandbox into the corresponding existing article? Or am I not able to do this because of rank? Thanks The ganymedian (talk) 06:49, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @The ganymedian: I declined the montage at AfC not because there was anything wrong with it, but because the AfC review process is (mostly) for new article drafts, which this wasn't/isn't. Whichever article your montage was intended for, please edit that article directly. (And there's no question of, let alone problem with, 'rank' here.) Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:11, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @DoubleGrazing I apologize for prematurely submitting that, as I was not aware it had to be a full article (I am new to editing/adding to Wikipedia). I see there is a "move" option, but if I wanted to move my photo collage to "2017", which category do I choose? If not this method, is there a way where I can export this to the article separately? Thanks The ganymedian (talk) 07:22, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@The ganymedian, "Move" doesn't work here. Check the wikitext at 2016 and see how it's done there, and copypaste the wikitext from your sandbox to 2017 in a similar manner, with a WP:ES that says "Copied from Template:Year 2017 events collage". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:10, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! The ganymedian (talk) 08:52, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@The ganymedian: no biggie, and certainly no need to apologise.

As Gråbergs Gråa Sång says, 'move' isn't what you want; that's for moving a whole article to a different name. (Just thought I'd explain, in case that wasn't clear.) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:39, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you @DoubleGrazing ! Looks like the article has been updated my collage. Thanks for your help! The ganymedian (talk) 08:53, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Most of the images have now been deleted as copyright violations, and the collage has become... less collage-y (someone may want to fix the caption at 2017). @The ganymedian, you need to be much more careful about uploading images you find elsewhere on the internet - most will not be compatibly licensed. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:00, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

How do I find images that are not copyrighted? Is there a way to cite these pictures to make them acceptable for use? The ganymedian (talk) 18:06, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@The ganymedian, no, none of those photos appear to meet the criteria at WP:FAIRUSE. Finding copyright-free images is difficult; your best options are to take photos yourself or to use ones that are already on Commons (though those may be deleted if it turns out they were uploaded illegally, as you found out). Some photo hosting services allow users to release images under free licenses, and some even allow you to search only for images released under such licenses. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:12, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I appreciate your patience, as I am new to the editing and addition process to Wikipedia. I will find Wikipedia images to use instead. The ganymedian (talk) 18:16, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

New category idea

I had an idea where me and other users could sort cars by power output.

For Example:

Cars with less than 100 hp, Cars with 100-200 hp, and so on.

But I cannot do this by myself. - - - -T e r g y t h e u s e r- - - - (Talk to me) 11:42, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@Tergy There is already a List of production cars by power output and some of the issues of assigning cars to categories would have the same problems as are mentioned there. If you want to suggest something more detailed, probably better to use the page WT:WikiProject Automobiles where those interested will see it. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:05, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@Tergy: Lots of articles cover many models with different power output, e.g. Mazda Familia. A category would only work if there is a redirect for each model and the redirect is categorized. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:18, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Problem with the article submission

Hello, I'd like to ask a question regarding my article about Codete IT company. It has already been published and visible on the Internet for a few months, but a few days ago it was deleted by Wikipedia because of the lack of neccessary updates [at least that was the notification]. After sending a request for re-submitting the article, there's now information about "submission refusal" with a long list of requirements that have already been approved by the Wikipedia team before. I'd like to ask for looking back at the latest article vesrion that has already been published on Wikipedia, and to relaunching it. Please, let me know who can I contact to solve this issue. Thanks for your help! IT Copy (talk) 12:12, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @IT Copy, welcome to the Teahouse. Your draft was never approved by a reviewer; you submitted it for review twice and it was declined twice. You made no further edits. Drafts that go unedited for six months are considered abandoned and automatically deleted. Once you have solved the problems the reviewer outlined in their notice, you can resubmit the draft using the "Resubmit" button. 97.113.27.216 (talk) 12:22, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Your draft exists at Draft:Codete. An editor made a minor edit to prevent it from being deleted for six-month inactivity. It was never an article. Draft are not seen by search engines such as Google. David notMD (talk) 13:41, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@IT Copy The company is involved in "creating technological solutions"? Please see WP:Solutions and reword that. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 08:02, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Positioning table in visual editor

Hello, I am doing a Wikipedia page for a local basketball coach and I am having troubles trying to position a table of context on the right side of the page. I would like it to look like Aleksandar Petrović (basketball, born February 1959). My work is still a draft named Alen Abaz. Thank you. Hamza131974 (talk) 12:17, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Hamza131974, welcome to the Teahouse. I believe you're actually asking how to create an infobox, not about the Table of Contents - is that correct? 97.113.27.216 (talk) 12:27, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Courtesy: Draft:Alen Abaz. David notMD (talk) 13:55, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi, i want to believe that it is called infobox. So how do one go about placing it to the right side of the page? Maybe you can point me to the right direction on where to look for a such a thing. I appreciate your help. Thank you. Hamza131974 (talk) 15:44, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Looking at Draft:Alen Abaz, it appears that you are using wikitable syntax for your box; infoboxes use specialized templates. You should probably use {{Infobox basketball biography}} on your draft. dudhhr ^talk _contribs (he/they) 15:47, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Hamza131974: pinging, see above message dudhhr ^talk _contribs (he/they) 15:48, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

How do i add pictures to a article

i cant add pictures to an article with out a problem Sillyboiperson (talk) 15:06, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Sillyboiperson, welcome to the Teahouse. What problem are you having? Which picture(s) are you trying to add, and to which article(s)? Images must be properly licensed and uploaded either to Commons or locally to English Wikipedia, then inserted using the proper markup. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:12, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

thank you Sillyboiperson (talk) 15:17, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Is my client notable enough to get a Wikipedia page?

Hello, I work for digital marketing/PR agency for books/authors and one of our clients just got IG verified. She was asking me to look into getting her a Wikipedia page, but would that be considered a conflict of interest if she's my client? I also want to make sure she's notable enough before I go through the whole process -- she's a published author & life coach and has been interviewed on local news (WTOL 11, CBS) (Paula Sands Live, NBC) (Toronto Sun article). Are these appearances notable enough? I appreciate any guidance. Thank you! Pacificandcourt (talk) 16:33, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Pacificandcourt, probably not. Interviews do not count for notability, only independent, reliable sources. An interview removes the 'independent' part. Also Instagram verification does not count for anything. Sungodtemple (talk) 16:40, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Pacificandcourt, welcome to the Teahouse, and thank you for asking questions before jumping in. It does count as a COI, and in fact, the more specific WP:PAID policy would probably apply. Please read that page carefully and comply with the instructions. As an author, the guidance at WP:NAUTHOR applies; it's possible that one or more of her books may be notable instead (see WP:NBOOK) depending on the reviews they've received. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:42, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Additionally, @Pacificandcourt, your user name may be a violation of our policies, as it seems to be the name of your company rather than a personal identification. I'd recommend either abandoning this account and starting a new one that meets our guidelines ("Sarah at Pacific and Court", for instance - you need not use your real name) or applying for a user name change (WP:RENAME). This account is highly likely to be blocked for not meeting the requirements. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:46, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks so much! I had no idea -- I requested a name change. Thank you for providing me info about the COI -- I'll keep that in mind as well, although at this point I believe I'm probably too inexperienced to create the page for her if page creation is only reserved for experienced editors.

She's written a three-book nonfiction self-help series, with her last book releasing this month. The books have received reviews from notable book publications (ex. Kirkus), but as for Shari herself - there are guest articles she's written herself for notable brands about various topics, but all articles about her are about her books/TV interviews/news articles where she's a featured "expert". Would it be better to suggest a Wikipedia page writing service, and would you happen to have any suggestions I can look into for her?

Thanks so much for being so helpful, I really appreciate it! Pacificandcourt (talk) 17:24, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Kirkus does reviews for pay, so they do not contribute to notability either. Nor do articles by the subject - we need independent articles _about_ the subject. A 'Wikipedia page writing service' will probably accept your money and then produce an article that would be swiftly deleted for failing to meet notability standards. MrOllie (talk) 17:26, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

A quibble: current consensus on Kirkus Reviews is "generally reliable" except for Kirkus Indie reviews. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:03, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@Pacificandcourt, I'm going to echo the advice above, because all too often we have folks show up here or at the Help Desk asking where their article is/where their money has gone, and they quickly learn they've been scammed. Beware who you give your (or your company's) money to. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:34, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, PacificandCourt. I want to acknowledge you for coming here and asking, and for recognising that you may not have the skills to write an article yourself. This is a lot more than many people do when they come here. But the fact that you are even considering paying somebody to write an article indicates to me that you have a very common, but utterly wrong, idea of what Wikipedia is. Promotion of any kind is forbidden anywhere on Wikipedia, and attempts to use Wikipedia as part of a marketing campaign often backfire. If your client does not currently meet our criteria for notability, then it doesn't matter who you pay, all money (and all your own efforts) that you devote will be wasted. If she does meet the requirements, then an article is possible, and it may be that some of the people offering to write it will do a good job. But "a good job" by Wikipedia's standards - the only ones that are relevant - may not be the same as what you would think of as a good job. Such an article will not belong to you or your client, will not be controlled by you, and will not be for the benefit of your client, except incidentally. Please have a look at an article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. ColinFine (talk) 18:02, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Ahh thank you all for all of your help! I can see that my client doesn't meet the notability requirements and I'll relay this information to her. I figured that those wiki-page writing services were a scam--I just figured I'd ask seeing as I don't think I have the experience to write her one. Thank you all again for being so helpful! I really appreciate it!! Pacificandcourt (talk) 18:12, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I would like to remove page, about a person who working with, please tell me who

I would like to remove page, about a person who working with, please tell me how? this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamad_al-Arefe 102.189.112.148 (talk) 18:10, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

IP user, there is a guide to deletion here. The short, simple answer is that an article can be nominated for deletion, and after a week or so of discussion, a decision will be reached for or against inclusion (the actual processes involved are more complex, but I don't think it's necessary to go into all that). Just glancing at the article, I don't think a deletion nomination would get any traction. The subject seems notable and the article seems well sourced. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:18, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

IP editor, I see that you've been trying to remove a particular section - which is not very well sourced - from the article, and have been reverted. I'd recommend starting a discussion on the talk page, Talk:Mohamad al-Arefe, since I think a valid argument could be made for removing at least some of that material. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:46, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Help with our company wiki page

We just added our draft yesterday and got a message to remove it. How can we get some help MOAerp (talk) 18:37, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@MOAerp: Welcome to the Teahouse. The message on your talk page states that the content used was both promotional and taken from somewhere else; as such, it has been deleted and will not be returned. Please understand that Wikipedia is not a promotional platform. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:43, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@MOAerp, if you are employed by this company, you need to declare per WP:PAID. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:43, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

OP blocked for WP:CORPNAME. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 15:42, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Could use help assessing notability

Hello, full disclosure I am an employee of Agility Robotics, so I don't feel like I can be an objective/unbiased editor. Is there anyone who has a passion/interest in robotics who might want to evaluate if there is enough 3rd party validation to justify a page? I've laid out a sample of 3rd party coverage as the basis of my hypothesis (that it's notable enough). You can view that on my user talk page, I'd be happy to provide that background here as well if that's preferred. Another user seemed to think there was enough credible source material, and that starting a conversation in the Teahouse would be a way to possibly find objective editors who have an interest in robotics. Thank you for any wisdom you can provide. Keganator (talk) 18:52, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@Keganator:, you might get some feedback at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Robotics. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:12, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Very good suggestion, thank you. Will do. Keganator (talk) 19:14, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Can i give myself every medal from a wikiproject without doing nothing

I really wanna do that to show that i am not new around here, thanks. LightGuess (talk) 19:04, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @LightGuess, welcome to the Teahouse. There is nothing stopping you from doing that, but it would certainly not have the effect you intend. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:08, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Can you? Yes. SHould you? No but there's no real punishment (Unless it's the only thing you do, then it could be seen as WP:NOTHERE). Will it show that you're not new? No. Users can still see the age of the account (whether it be with an enabled preference or via logs). ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 19:10, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

LightGuess, to be frank, you are damaging your own credibility and making yourself look foolish. Is that what you really want? Cullen328 (talk) 19:16, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

no LightGuess (talk) 19:24, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

OP indefinitely blocked. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:49, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

When writing an edit summary, is there a way to stop the enter key generating a "Publish"?

On my laptop, the backspace key is just above the enter key. Too often, mid-way through writing an edit summary, I make a typo. Intending to backspace and correct, instead I've just hit the enter key mid-sentence and published an incoherent explanation. Of course it only happens when the topic is controversial. Or so it seems.

I can't see anything in Preferences that would change this default. Have I missed it? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:10, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, John Maynard Friedman. I am not aware of a technical fix, but you can always make a dummy edit with the correct edit summary. Cullen328 (talk) 19:37, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I've been doing that but it looks so incompetent that I had hoped for a Cunning Plan. Too bad, I didn't really expect an easy solution. Thanks for looking anyway. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:50, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@John Maynard Friedman, when I know a long or complex edit summary is about to be required, my solution a la Baldrick is to type it out elsewhere (e.g. in a text editor) and then copy+paste. Maybe you can try something similar. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:56, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@John Maynard Friedman, you could try to ask at WP:VPT (where the people with programming skills hang out) whether this could be addressed by a script or gadget or browser extension. —Kusma (talk) 19:58, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hm, my default editor behavior is to not publish unless I hit ctrl+enter or cmd+return, depending on what OS I'm using. Not sure how that was set up on my end, I was under the impression this was the default setting for everyone. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 20:01, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi John Maynard Friedman! If you want this behavior, and are willing to try adjusting your common.js, I just tested adding some JS to my common.js (go to Special:Mypage/common.js and create it if it doesn't exist; make sure to heed the warning about copying and paste things in there, since it runs on every page.) and enter (feel free to edit/remove the line with the alert if you want it to be silent):

/* Disallow hitting "enter" in the edit summary box to actually submit. */
(function() {
	var submit_box = document.getElementById('wpSummary');
	if (submit_box) {
		submit_box.onkeypress = function(e) {
			if (e.charCode === 13) {
    			alert('Customized behavior; "enter" to publish turned off. Use "Publish" button to publish.');
    			e.preventDefault();
			}
		};
	}
})();

Skynxnex (talk) 20:19, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

My gratitude for all the generous replies. I will try tomorrow. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:49, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@Skynxnex:, that is just what the doctor ordered. A major barnstar for you. Thank you very much. Applause! --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 09:14, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@John Maynard Friedman awesome, glad it helped! One nice thing about this, I realized I wanted to add, was that you can still stay only on the keyboard by hitting Tab and then Enter to publish (for me at least, since the "minor edit" checkbox is part of the form but not the edit summary so it isn't stopped. If you want to toggle it to be minor, then Tab, Space, Enter will publish that.) Skynxnex (talk) 13:40, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

What you're observing is actually standard behavior for any web form: hitting 'enter' in a text field is the same as submitting the form. Every browser I have ever used over the past 25 years works this way. I am so accustomed to this that I rely on it, and am annoyed when I have to reach over to the mouse to submit the form. ~Anachronist (talk) 22:46, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

@Anachronist:, I don't believe that I ever suggested that it is a bug but only that on cramped laptop keyboards it is an accessibility issue. And btw, ↵ Enter functions as a (carriage) return key or an enter ("commit") key according to context. In body text, it is usually the former. In one of a series of dialogue boxes, it can even function as a tab key (this box complete, go to next box). So the behaviour is a design choice. Yes, most often it is as you say, for a single dialogue box like the Edit summary and that behaviour is so common that most users expect it. But it is not a cast-iron rule, irrespective of circumstances. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 09:07, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@John Maynard Friedman: It may be a design choice here, but IIRC for basic HTML web forms, this behavior (Enter=Submit) is the default, and has been since the earliest days of the World Wide Web when Mosaic and Netscape were the only browsers around. Suppressing this default behavior is the design choice. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:25, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

how can i open mu mobile app wiki saved page to wiki web

how can i open mu mobile app wiki saved page to wiki web Hirenfchotaliya (talk) 20:03, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to The Teahouse. It's not clear what you are actually asking here, can you re-phrase or more fully explain your problem? Theroadislong (talk) 20:18, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello Hirenfchotaliya. I'm guessing that you are asking about access the "reading list" that you have created in the mobile app, from the web version. If that is the question, I'm afraid the answer is No, you can't, See the last sentence of m:Wikimedia Apps/Android FAQ#Reading lists and offline reading (that's for Android, but the same applies to the iOS app). ColinFine (talk) 21:16, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

new draft declined twice and follow-up

Dear TeaHouse:

I am still trying to figure out the approval process for a new article. Draft:Anna Frajlich. Two different editors declined my draft and provided their feedback, and then I also received another feedback from yet another, third editor. I followed all the advice and am trying to engage them in a conversation about how else I can improve the draft or have it approved. So far, no luck. Should I just resubmit it for the third time for a review? How many times can a draft be declined? Or is it until you find a sympathetic editor? In my opinion, this article has been substantiated with many valid, often peer-reviewed articles. It also contains a painstakingly collected references to emigre media which is hard to come by, unless you are a specialist in the field. One editor remarked that Frajlich's credentials as an educator are non substantial, but her notability is anchored in her being one of the most important living poets which has been substantiated above and beyond. I would really appreciate a friendly hand-holding here. Thank you!

MatrosMonk (talk) 20:53, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, MatrosMonk, and welcome to the Teahouse. I see that you have opened discussion at WP:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk#18:03:47, 16 September 2022 review of submission by MatrosMonk, but until this morning you didn't ping any other editors, so they probably didn't see it. You've now pinged DoubleGrazing, so they will probably see it, and may reply (or may not: we're all volunteers, who work when and on what we choose).

Where something was published is not an issue, but whether it was published by a reputable publisher is: I'm not sure what "the immigrant press" means in this regard.

One thing to remember is that Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. Anything written or published by Frajlich, or based on her words (eg an interview) plays no role in establishing notability for Wikipedia's purposes.

Every source that contributes to notability (and hence, the majority of the sources in an article) should meet all three of the following criteria: reliably published, independent of the subject, and containing significant coverage of the subject. ColinFine (talk) 21:31, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Since the second Declined you have increased length by nearly 50% and doubled the number of references. If you think that each factual statment is referenced, then resubmit. David notMD (talk) 01:35, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@David notMD:@MatroMonk: I wouldn't accept it yet. There is a lot of refspam in there. For example, I see four citations for one bibliography entry, not even citing any sort of statement, so it is unclear what the purpose or context of those citations is supposed to be. Many unnecessary citations make the draft look like an attempt to disguise non-notability. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:55, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

On reconsideration, shorter may improve likelihood of approval. Does this really need "Selected books of poetry in translation"? Of greater value, rather than having "Selected critical studies and reviews" as a list, change that to a section under Career, use fewer, and paraphrase what these people wrote about her and her writing. These are the valuable publications that are essential to confirming her notability. David notMD (talk) 09:46, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@David notMD thank you very much for your constructive feedback. I will rework following your recommendations. Very grateful! MatrosMonk (talk) 13:56, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Active users

On the List of Wikipedias page, do Wikipedia language editions with a higher number of active users regardless of the actual total size of the editions size (total article number wise), mean that the average articles themselves would on average be of higher quality in terms of information detail, etc? Hgh1985 (talk) 21:58, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hgh1985, I would assume that a higher editor-per-article ratio would mean better content, but this could be different for some Wikipedias. Sungodtemple (talk) 22:02, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Edit description guidelines

I've read Help:Edit summary, WP:Edit summary legend, and WP: Editing policy. I've also read through the editing histories of a couple pages now. Tons of edits have no edit description. Is that acceptable?

There also seem to be edits where the summaries of the edits are disproportionately long for the content of the edit. What are the minimum acceptable edit summaries for ce? Is there a way to automate/semi-automate ce?

Also, is there a guide for editing practices? I have seen both instances of editors who make lots of changes in one edit, and editors who make one change per edit. The latter seems like the way to maximize # of edits. Is this just seen as editor preference? Are there arguments for one way or the other? Modern Methuselah (talk) 23:40, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

These are good questions. Edit summaries are matter of good etiquette. Yes, you should normally have one in each edit, yes, they should not be too long. Plenty to read here. As for your last question, well that kind of ties into the first two in a way. If you are making 10 different content edits in one go, then your edit summary will probably not be able to adequately describe each one. It's good to keep edits in small enough groups that you can summarize and justify them in a reasonable manner. When it becomes problematic is when an editor tries to hide controversial edits between a bunch of trivial ones, making it harder to restore a bad edit. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 23:46, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Modern Methuselah, and welcome! In addition to what Pyrrho the Skipper said, some editors use an automated process for certain kinds of repetitive edits, including some typo fixes, but not all; for instance, a group of volunteers called the Typo Team handles a lot of typos that have been found by an automated process. Hope this helps! Perfect4th (talk) 23:48, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I'll add: Tons of edits having no edit summary isn't acceptable, but over the 20+ years Wikipedia has existed, the situation hasn't improved much. The length of the edit summary need not correspond to the size of the edit. As long as the edit summary conveys meaning about what was done, it's enough. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:49, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Modern Methuselah, although use of edit summaries is certainly a best practice and recommended to all editors, it is not mandatory. Summaries should be both concise and informative, and should not be argumentative. Debates about the content should take place on the article talk page, not in edit summaries. A single edit, in my opinion, should deal with a single matter, although it could be a fairly lengthy edit. Dealing with many different matters in a single edit makes it much more difficult for other editors to review the change. There is no benefit to editors who maximize the number of their edits. All experienced editors know that edit count is only the roughest measure of productivity, and what really matters are how useful the edits are, not how many of them there are. Cullen328 (talk) 00:49, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Automated tools are a better way to inflate edit count than making many small edits, for those who are interested in doing so for whatever reason I could never comprehend. I'm happy to say that I don't use such tools, so my edit count reflects my own edits, not edits by automation. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:49, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Translation Request

Hello. please if any of you are engaged in translations, kindly translate the list of pages below to French.

• https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Code_for_Africa_Climate_Change_Project/Programme
• https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Code_for_Africa_Climate_Change_Project/Participation
• https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Code_for_Africa_Climate_Change_Project/Trust_%26_Safety
• https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Code_for_Africa_Climate_Change_Project/Feedback

Thanks. Jwale2 (talk) 03:09, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Jwale2: don't request translations of meta pages here. instead, follow the instructions in meta:translation requests. lettherebedarklight, 晚安, おやすみ, ping me when replying 03:37, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Lettherebedarklight Jwale2 (talk) 09:03, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Reinstate Incorrect Page Name Change

Hi there. I represent my client called Trustpower. They discovered their Wikipedia page war renamed to a company they own. It needs to be re instated. How do I do this on their behalf? Here's the page in question - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manawa_Energy 103.227.15.2 (talk) 04:10, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi IP 103.227.15.2. Please try not to ask the same question on multiple Wikipedia noticeboards because doing so often leads to confusion and fragments the discussion. I will respond to your original question at WP:HD#Reinstate a page name change. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:27, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

About the Berklee Page as an Independent Reference/source for Roman Catholic Church Accompanist

Previous discussion : Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1164#Which References Do you Need for Publishing an Article?

• Berklee page

Hello @User:Cullen328

Actually it was intended for the Roman Catholic Church. (Draft:Roman_Catholic_Church_Accompanist)

As you can see in this external link of Berklee (Church Musician (also called Accompanist/Organist): https://www.berklee.edu/careers/roles/church-musician

you can find the description and image of the cross with Jesus Christ on it (a clear symbol of the Catholic Church with Jesus on the cross). It's intended for describing what a church accompanist/musician is.

I think it can be used as an independent reference for this draft. At other non-catholic churches, you cannot find Jesus on the cross.

Please double check the reference link Church Musician above. Your help would be much appreciated.

Thank you for your time and patience.

Please let me know.

Nativefreelancer (talk) 04:19, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Nativefreelancer, this is unacceptable for several reasons. First of all, images used to illustrate an article on a music college's website are in no way, shape or form reliable sources for any content on Wikipedia. Secondly, when I click that link, I do not see a crucifix. Third, even if I did, our article Crucifix correctly states that crucifixes are also used in the Eastern Orthodox Church, most Oriental Orthodox Churches (except the Armenian & Syriac Church), and the Eastern Catholic Churches, as well as by the Lutheran, Moravian and Anglican Churches, so your assertion that the crucifix is exclusive to the Roman Catholic Church is simply not accurate. Just search for "greek orthodox crucifix" on Google Images and see what you find. Cullen328 (talk) 07:19, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello@Cullen328

I understand your concerns. Yet, it looks like the Berklee College of Music has a Catholic presence for its students.

"We are also the Catholic presence for Berklee College of Music, and we welcome all Students, Faculty and Staff..."

Here's a page FYI:

https://www.newmanministry.com/colleges/berklee-college-of-music Nativefreelancer (talk) 08:54, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Nope, that is the website of a Catholic student organisation which happens to have a presence at Berklee. The "We" in the snippet of text you quote is the Newman Ministry, not Berklee College. Berklee has no specific religious affiliation, but like many other educational institutions, they have various student groups for students who belong to different religions and denominations. And the stock photo of a choir used on the info page about Berklee's church musician programme is completely unrelated to that. --bonadea contributions talk 10:09, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, @Cullen 328

Do you think a book found on Amazon may help? It can be an independent reference for this draft.

This book also contains a very practical approach with inside tips on what to expect when playing a wedding, funeral, Catholic Mass, traditional or contemporary church service.

Here's the page FYI:

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Church-Pianist-Keyboard-Improvisation/dp/1468124811

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks. Nativefreelancer (talk) 09:04, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

The Amazon link cannot be used in an article. What specific information would you use the book as a reference for? --bonadea contributions talk 10:09, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello@Bonadea

I think the accompanist will be a perfect reference for the universal church accompanist.

Accompanists from the universal church do similar things due to Universal church.

Thank you for helping me to improve the draft. Nativefreelancer (talk) 11:39, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello @Cullen 328,

I found a great book written by the Catholic Organist/Pianist accompanist:

Some description can be found in the ABOUT THIS BOOK section FYI:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087N994ZG/ref=dbs_p_ebk_kindle_upsell

It's very details. It should work. What do you think? It can be an independent reference for the draft.

I will rewrite the draft for more specific details soon. Nativefreelancer (talk) 10:10, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

About how to improve this draft/article

Hello @Duck

Thank you for helping me improving this draft: (Draft:Roman_Catholic_Church_Accompanist)

Do you think it makes sense now? I've added some description in the External Links: Church Musician and See Also sections for the Berklee page: Accompanist ("Accompanist". Berklee College of Music. Retrieved September 17, 2022) as an independent reference for this draft.

Please let me know how to improve this draft if any.

Thank you.

Nativefreelancer (talk) 05:19, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• @Nativefreelancer: I do not think the issues raised above about sourcing have been solved. For instance, you namedrop Mozart as one of the most notable Accompanists of the Roman Catholic Church throughout the history of church music, but that assertion is referenced to a Spotify playlist of Mozart works. First of all, a composer need not be a performer, even if we accept for the sake of the argument that a Spotify playlist was a source for the fact that Mozart composed sacred music. Second, while it is well attested that Mozart did play the piano very well, I am not aware that he played the piano in the context of accompanying sacred music performances. Third, even if you had a source showing that he performed in such a context, that would not be enough for the assertion he is noted as an accompanist of RC church music - such an assertion would probably need sourcing from prominent music historians.

In addition to those problems, your draft seems to put in WP:WIKIVOICE things that are Catholic doctrine. The most egregious example is "reference" #10 (actually, a footnote rather than a reference), which states the mission of laity in Wikivoice rather than as a quote. The extensive quotes in the lead are probably not needed either.

Finally, the scope of the article is questionable. The role of piano or organ accompanist exists across quite a few Christian churches with little variation, so there is no real reason the article should be specifically about Catholic ones. Other articles on Christian topics (for instance, Eucharist) usually cover the whole Christian perspective before diving into differences. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 09:09, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, @Tigraan

Yes, Mozart was employed as the musician to the Prince-Archbishop of Salzburg.

You can click on the link to the Wikipedia page:

Or check the latest reference from an independent reference for the Universal church on the draft here: Draft:Roman Catholic Church Accompanist now. Nativefreelancer (talk) 11:23, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Nativefreelancer: You added a reference to that page. First of all, that page should not be used as reference for anything per WP:CIRCULAR, because large parts of it are copied from the Wikipedia article Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. Furthermore, even if it was a reliable source, it does not support the assertion that [Mozart is] one of the most notable Accompanists of the Roman Catholic Church throughout the history of church music, which is what your draft says. (If it does, please point to the exact sentence that says this. Being employed as an organist is not the same as being one of the most notable accompanists throughout history.)

As that is not the only instance of mismatch between the source and the assertion, I encourage you to read carefully WP:V, a core Wikipedia guideline. The basic standard is that a dumb but persistent reader should be able to verify themselves everything that is written in an article. That fictional reader is extremely patient and has access to many libraries, but they do not make any sort of intelligent reasoning, so everything has to be spelled out for them. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 13:04, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• @Nativefreelancer: Looks like User:User-duck just fixed some issues with the reference templates. I have added a longish comment on the draft page. Regarding the Berklee college link, all it verifies is that a church musician can also be called "accompanist" – that's simply a dictionary definition, and the RC church is not mentioned. --bonadea contributions talk 09:57, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

  Hello, @Bonadea

  Yes, you're right. I think it can be an independent reference.

  When they write church musician=accompanist, they refer to the universal church. The universal church can be the Roman Catholic Church.

  Here's a wikipedia page FYI: Universal church

  Universal church or Universal Church may refer to:

  • One of the Four Marks of the Church
  • The Catholic Church (the word catholic means "universal")

  They are all the same. The church musician/accompanist do similar things in a universal church. Nativefreelancer (talk) 10:20, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• My feeling, looking at this article, is that it's too narrow, which will make it very difficult to prove notability, because it will be difficult to find sources that refer in depth to the role of a Roman Catholic Accompanist. I cannot think off-hand of any Christian denomination that does not use music, and has no one who could qualify as the dictionary definition of accompanist. And I can think of many Roman Catholic churches who have musicians, a director of music, an organist, or someone otherwise not referred to as an accompanist but doing the job of accompanying church music. There are many sources about church music, of course, and whole books on how to be a good church accompanist, or a good church organist, or a combination of both, but unless there are a lot of sources that define this in especially Roman Catholic terms, and draw a distinction between Roman Catholic church musicians and every other church musician, then we don't need a specific article for Roman Catholic examples of the species. We have an article on Church music but I can't see any general article on Church musicians, which might be easier to source, and more generally relevant. Elemimele (talk) 12:31, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

  Hello @Elemimele

  Do you think it would be a good idea to create a new draft: universal church accompanist or church accompanist?

  As we all know that the universal church can be any churches.

  • One of the Four Marks of the Church
  • The Catholic Church (the word catholic means "universal")

  What do you think? Would it be a better idea to change the title of the draft? Nativefreelancer (talk) 12:45, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

  As we all know that the universal church can be any churches. As our article universal church (a disambiguation page) shows, that term has many meanings. Even so, I didn’t know the meaning of "any Christian church", despite having grown in a Catholic environment.

Keep in mind that Wikipedia is written with a worldwide perspective. Most Indians probably don’t know that meaning of "universal church" either (I would guess less than half of the world population can explain the difference between "Catholic" and "Christian").

Alternatively: do you know who Tripitaka and Sun Wukong are? Probably not. I would estimate that at least one billion humans know the rough outline of the story they appear in. Do you know who Abu Bakr was? Probably not. He is a central figure in the most significant schism of Islam. etc.

Many things that you don’t know are considered absolutely basic stuff in other cultures. If you don’t want to explain basic stuff, Wikipedia is probably not the place for you. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 13:29, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• Hello@Elemimele

  What about this one? Please check the About The Book section:

  "Organ music for the Catholic Mass has a much different function than music played in Protestant churches. In Protestant services, the organ is often played as a solo instrument during the service. People sit, listen, and enjoy hearing the organ as a part of worship. In the Catholic church, the organist (=accompanist) plays during processions and the music must be suitable – essentially, the music must not be the center of attention. The organ must sustain the mood for the various processions supporting their place and function within the Mass."

  https://sacredmusiclibrary.com/product/a-catholic-organists-book-of-postludes/ Nativefreelancer (talk) 13:06, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

  It's a self published book, which means it most likely should not be used on Wikipedia. It also isn't particularly accurate - in addition to the orthodox churches already mentioned here, plenty of protestant denominations (the Lutherans, for example), employ the organ in a similar manner. I don't believe that sufficient sourcing really exists for you to write a policy-compliant Wikipedia article on this. Your time may be better spent elsewhere. MrOllie (talk) 13:18, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

  I am certain that many Church of England sources would say much the same thing too. I was going to make the point that the existence of a book entitled Botany for Ladies doesn't justify an article on Botany for Ladies separate to Botany because the book in question is merely about botany, and the information in it is not different for gentlemen. To support an article Botany for Ladies you need a secondary author writing about the role of Botany in a woman's education and life (where the secondary author might in turn cite Mrs Loudon, the author of the wonderful "Botany for Ladies"). But there's something more helpful here: have you had a look at Liturgical_music? This has a large section on Catholic music, and a very short section on Anglican because someone has written a separate article on Anglican church music. Rather than writing a new article on Catholic accompanists, it might be better to add any relevant information to the Liturgical music article, and if the section on Catholic liturgical music gets out of hand, separate it out into an article Catholic church music analogous to the Anglican version. Elemimele (talk) 16:25, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Does this article warrant the amount of time we are spending on it here? Just asking. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 05:38, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Template

Hi Teahouse,

I’m Afternoon Daydream. Please how can i generate the won and nominated templates? For example when adding awards and nominations in an article. Afternoon Daydream (talk) 06:50, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Afternoon Daydream: Welcome to the Teahouse! Sounds like you're referring to {{Won}} and {{Nom}}. Just place those in the corresponding chart row(s). See the template documentation for further details. ––FormalDude (talk) 07:12, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Precisely, thank you so much @FormalDude Afternoon Daydream (talk) 07:39, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Caylee Cowan

I improved this article by removing Inappropriate content and providing WP:RS. I couldn't move the draft to Caylee Cowan, because it needs administrator access. I moved to Caylee Cowan(actress). Another user, nominated the article for deletion and after 8 days they decided to Keep it. The user who closed the deletion discussion, noted that it should be a request to admins to fix the title of article by moving it to Caylee Cowan. Therefore I commented here to fixing the issue. Regards.Mehmet-mk2 (talk) 06:56, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Mehmet-mk2, it looks like you'll need to make a request at WP:RFHM. ––FormalDude (talk) 07:09, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Mehmet-mk2: It would have been cleaner if you had requested a move right up front, rather than move it to an alternate name yourself. By doing so, you created more work for an administrator to clean up. I have just done so: Moved it to Caylee Cowan, repaired the talk page, deleted the remnant talk page from the move, and corrected the redirect targets in draft space. This would have been a one-step process if you had requested that an administrator do it from the outset. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:38, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Feedback for my article

Hello everyone, after my first article draft was rejected, I incorporated all the feedback and further improved the draft step by step until I believe it is fully up to Wikipedia-standards now. I resubmitted it and would love to see it published this time. Is there anything else you believe I can improve in the article? And what is a realistic time frame until it is reviewed another time? I would appreciate any feedback, thanks in advance! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Monika_Schwarz-Friesel Draft:Monika Schwarz-Friesel - Wikipedia DannyJach (talk) 09:01, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• @DannyJach: The difficulty is that the general notability guideline requires sources that talk/write about her, not sources that interview her for her views. A reviewer that assesses your draft against that guideline might think the sources are insufficient.

However, there is a special notability criterion for academics; I believe your sources adequately demonstrate that she passes WP:NACADEMIC #7 (impact outside academia). #1 (impact within academia) might also be met, eyeballing the citations on Google Scholar, but it’s probably a tougher sell. As the draft is rather good (no promotional language etc.), I would expect it to be accepted at next review.

There is no real time frame for review. It is not a queue system, reviewers work in whatever order they feel like. Sometimes it takes days, sometimes it takes months. Is there any reason why you are in a hurry? Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 09:27, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

It has been accepted! A suggestion, even though now accepted, I recommend removing the first and third items under Awards and honours. David notMD (talk) 09:56, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Editing the article in Russian and Ukrainian.

Hello, just recently registered on Wikipedia to make edits and edit finished articles. I am a certified translator and wanted to be useful for Wikipedia. I have a question: I found an article in English on Wikipedia, used the automated translator of this article into Russian, and I wanted to make corrections in this language, but I can't do it because this article in English is opened to me in the edit mode. What to do? Nataly Yuzhakova (talk) 09:37, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Nataly Yuzhakova: you need to go the the russian wikipedia (https://ru.wikipedia.org) and create a page there. lettherebedarklight, 晚安, おやすみ, ping me when replying 10:39, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Nataly Yuzhakova There's some advice for editors translating from English to other languages at WP:TrU. Thanks for wanting to help. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:52, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Help with page number display

Hi there, I need some help on the page for Susan Sherman.

There are 3 spots where an editor asked for page numbers to be added. The page numbers are in the citation, but I don't understand how to make them display externally. Can you help?

Here are the 3 issues:

1."at the Alternate U."^{[: 125-126}

2. AUDELCO awards in 1996.^{[pages needed] delete—website is the correct citation}  No page numbers.

3. Mexico City before embarking for Cuba.^{[: 150}

Can you let me know how to do this correctly?

Thank you.

Ovaryian (talk) 10:36, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ovaryian: the template used for page numbers in this case is {{rp}}. lettherebedarklight, 晚安, おやすみ, ping me when replying 10:42, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I still need some help. I was able to make that change, but don't know how to remove the words "pages needed." Thank you Ovaryian (talk) 11:34, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Never mind, I got it. Thanks for your help! Ovaryian (talk) 11:54, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

GIFs in articles?

Are GIFs allowed in place of images? Someone edited the image on a page and I'm not sure if it's in the rules to do so, or how to quote that it is or isn't.

The page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Call_Saul ButterCashier (talk) 10:50, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@ButterCashier .gifs are OK. See Commons:File types for the full set we use. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:58, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

However, the .gif in the infobox of the article you linked is not appropriate, in my opinion. It makes me feel nauseous and isn't doing its job of letting the reader know they have reached the correct article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:00, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@ButterCashier, @Mike Turnbull I agree, that gif was a poor choice. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 08:24, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. The page you linked to had little on it, I think you were trying to link to this page: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:File_types ButterCashier (talk) 11:01, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@ButterCashier Ooops! Yes you are correct. I've reverted the other image as the logo is a much better imaage for the infobox, as you had already realised. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:06, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

how to donate

A simple question (I hope). I commented on an excess of nag banners, which a Wikipedian kindly corrected, apparently on the assumption that I had already donated. In fact, I still wish to make a modest donation. How?

regards, Vic joseph (talk) 12:47, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

On the sidebar on the left, there's a donate link you can click which sends you to the Wikimedia donation page.

For added convenience, here is the link in question. Donate Explodicator7331 (talk) 13:19, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Waarom kan video niet gaan

@ 168.121.86.172 (talk) 13:57, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hallo! Het lijkt erop dat u meer bekend bent met het Nederlands. Wist je dat er een Nederlandse Wikipedia is? ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 14:04, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Biased for Humans

Wikipedia seems biased to humans in favour of other organisms, I think. Someone has probably mentioned that before. I suppose because humans are the ones using it, that implies the information is meant for them in particular, or only, but for instance the Sexual intercourse page has only a small section on other animals at the end, compared to humans. Hence, Wikipedia is destined to always favour humans over other species? It seems logical but not technically neutral in a sense. ButterCashier (talk) 15:10, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, this is, in a sense, destined. As humans, we tend to produce a lot more studies on humans and human-related things than on other organisms, and that will inevitably end up in such things getting more space here. This isn't a matter of neutrality as Wikipedia defines it (WP:NPOV), more a sort of systemic bias. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:16, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@ButterCashier: See also the essay User:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:44, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• To elaborate on 199.208.172.35’s point that Wikipedia only reproduces (hehe) the bias present in the sources, see Wikipedia:Systemic_bias#Representation_in_sources_may_cause_bias.

There is an in-Wikipedia tradition of making fake deletion nominations during April’s Fool’s Day. Earth, Human, etc. are common targets with the rationale that "all sources are from the subject, hence non-independent". (See for instance Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Human). Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 12:00, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

What to do with frivolous comments on an article talk page?

Hi there,

I was interested in editing the Duolingo Article, and noticed the talk page was full of comments that, in my opinion, was not productive to the discussion of the article. What should I do with those, stale or recent? Thx. Realtent (talk) 15:46, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Ok, maybe not full of comments, but the question still stands: what should I do? Realtent (talk) 15:46, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

See this.Help:Archiving a talk page. I'll do it... as long as the phone doesn't ring in the next 10 minutes - X201 (talk) 15:55, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

 Done - X201 (talk) 16:02, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Realtent. I routinely remove frivolous and disruptive talk page comments, using WP:NOTAFORUM as an edit summary. Cullen328 (talk) 16:04, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Interactive guide to getting started with Wikipedia

Hello fellow Teahousers. I started to take my WP:TRIAGE onboarding steps and turned them into a simple interactive guide, User:Timtempleton/TRIAGE1. I'd welcome feedback on the talk page. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:14, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Reporting Article Vandalism

Hi, I was wondering how to report article vandalism? Thank you. Ashen Knight (talk) 16:19, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

You can simply undo the vandalism yourself. If you think it productive, you can add a warning on the vandal's talk-page asking them not to do the same again. If they are doing it repeatedly and have been warned, you can also request at WP:AIV that an admin take action. But if it's all on one article, you can request page protection at WP:RFPP; this latter is particularly useful for IP editors doing silly things, because they rarely bother looking at talk-pages, if they're on a version 6 IP address they won't see their talk page messages anyway, and usually if the article is semi-protected for a few days, they get bored and we can all go back to normal. Elemimele (talk) 16:32, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I should add: vandalism in Wikipedia has a very specific meaning, of edits that are clearly intended to cause harm to the encyclopaedia and couldn't be construed by any human as being in any way helpful. If someone has merely introduced material that they believed to be correct, but you know to be wrong, or deleted something with a vaguely rational explanation, then it's not vandalism, and should be discussed on the article's talk page. Elemimele (talk) 16:49, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

At @Ashen Knight Why did YOU vandalize the page Intellivision Amico at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Intellivision_Amico&diff=prev&oldid=1108834587 71.228.112.175 (talk) 08:31, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Looking at their edit history, uh, yeah, they seem like they're the one vandalizing pages. Good catch, random IP user. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contribs)} 08:33, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@LilianaUwU Well, I'm not quite random, but you're welcome. I'll sign up for an account soon... I think I have one or two hundred article edits under a couple of IP addresses (which doesn't change very often). 71.228.112.175 (talk) 05:44, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

neutrality

Hi there, I have twice submitted this piece and got rejected for being non-neutral: Draft:Lavu POS

What am I doing wrong? It seems like pure data, all from neutral sources...but maybe I'm missing something.

Here to learn!

Thanks,

DW Casablancaeditorial (talk) 16:26, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello , Casablancaeditorial, and welcome to the Teahouse. As far as I can see, all your sources are either not independent, or are routine business announcements. Where are the sources where somebody wholly unconnected with Lavu, and not prompted or fed information on their behalf, has written in-depth about Lavu? Without such sources, it is impossible to show that Lavu meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability, so it probably doesn't. See WP:AMOUNT. ColinFine (talk) 16:54, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Casablancaeditorial. Business Wire and PR Web are companies that distribute press releases for money with no fact checking or editorial oversight. Accordingly, such sources are neither reliable nor independent, and are worthless for use as references establishing notability on Wikipedia. Most of the other sources show the classic telltale signs of being generated by company press relesses, such as extensive quotations of company executives, use of company provided photos, and the like. None of it appears to be truly independent significant coverage in reliable sources. Cullen328 (talk) 17:38, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I have to say, this is honestly the first time I realized that the acronym "POS" means "point of sale", and not what I always hear in my head when I see that acronym. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:47, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much for this! Finally I have some direction....much appreciated. And yes, POS is, er, well not always a point of sale :) Casablancaeditorial (talk) 18:01, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Casablancaeditorial, if you have not already done so, I suggest that you spend some time reading and studying Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) and Wikipedia:Your first article. Cullen328 (talk) 18:10, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for these! Casablancaeditorial (talk) 18:20, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Making a Wikipedia entry easier to read

I use List of 500 companies at Wikipedia to find stocks. I The entries are all there and legible, but would be easier to read if (1) the trading symbol(such as MSFT)were printed in black instead of light blue, and (2) your symbol that looks like a capital L with an arrow thru it were spaced farther from the trading symbol itself. This concerns ease of reading, not content itself. ... Willard Felsen, who is also a financial contributor to Wikipedia and regular user for all sorts of things 108.160.36.125 (talk) 17:36, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I believe they're light blue because they're links. And the "L with an arrow thru it" is because they're external links (i.e., lead to pages outside of Wikipedia). Uporządnicki (talk) 17:40, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

IP editor: Welcome to the Teahouse. As AzseicsoK says, this is because they are external links. This is essentially hard-coded into the software, so there's not much chance that this will change unless someone decides to remove the links. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:43, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

IP editor, I assume that you are referring to List of S&P 500 companies. You can propose changes to that list article at Talk:List of S&P 500 companies. Cullen328 (talk) 17:47, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

IP editor, if you create an account, you can suppress the display of that arrow icon by editing your common.css file and including this line:

.mw-parser-output a.external { background-image: none; }

That suppresses the icon everywhere on Wikipedia. If you want to suppress them on just that page, the line would be:

.page_List_of_S_P_500_companies .mw-parser-output a.external { background-image: none; }

But you cannot do this as an anonymous IP address. You need an account. ~Anachronist (talk) 18:01, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Diffs

These "diff" things.. How do I do those correctly? To show specific edits in that cute little link consecutively? Such as a [1], [2], [3] looking "diffs"? — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 19:06, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Oopsemoops, welcome back. There are several ways to do it - check out Help:Diff#Linking to a diff. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:10, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

TY. — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 19:11, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I think I'm being WP:HOUNDed

But I am concerned about opening a frivolous ANI. Is there some way I can get a second opinion or something? SmolBrane (talk) 20:29, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello SmolBrane and welcome to the Teahouse. Just a brief look at your talk page and your contributions I don't personally see an WP:HOUNDing but if you could provide specific diffs where you feel you have been perhaps we could determine that more definitively here. --ARoseWolf 20:36, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I am concerned about the editing at COVID-19 pandemic in Iceland involving an editor that was previously involved in an ANI with me [4]. Please let it be clear that I am not trying to canvas or anything like that. SmolBrane (talk) 20:46, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

The editor in question has never edited that article before, and is now reverting my additions, and only my additions. Removing lasting material from an article requires consensus as well(am I mistaken here?), and rather than re-revert(since I don't know reversion rules well) I decided to come here. Thank you by the way. SmolBrane (talk) 20:50, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

This appears to be a content issue rather than anything behavioral so I would definitely caution against AN/I (someone else may have a different opinion). The first thing I look at is the article talk page and I don't see either of you attempting to discuss this there which would be the primary first step in dispute resolution. --ARoseWolf 20:54, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

You linked the Iceland article on the talk page of Great Barrington Declaration, where this user has been active for some time. Perhaps they just followed your link? MrOllie (talk) 20:58, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

If you are talking about @Bon courage, they have edited the article before and based on their contributions they are a frequent on medical and medical science articles so I don't think that constitutes hounding. Again, article talk page is the first step. I know that's not a flashy answer and probably not what is wanted to be heard but that's my opinion in this matter. --ARoseWolf 21:02, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

They have never edited COVID-19 pandemic in Iceland prior to their removal of my content three days ago. SmolBrane (talk) 21:09, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Edited began with their first revert so I struck through as that was an error in my review of contribs. The second portion stands to reason why they might be looking at the article or followed a link there. They share the same interest. --ARoseWolf 21:12, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

You are edit-warring and should re-read WP:ONUS and take it to the talk page for discussion.Slywriter (talk) 20:25, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Close gaps in article

Hi all- I placed an image collage for the years "2012" and "2013", but I notice that the spacing between the header "Deaths" and "January" becomes huge. Is there a way to close this gap without deleting the photo collage I worked on? Is it just a matter of rearranging things in the article? I also did the photo collage for "2015" but this article seemed to not have this problem. Thanks. The ganymedian (talk) 22:21, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

This is for the desktop browser. The phone version still looks fine. The ganymedian (talk) 22:36, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@The ganymedian: Welcome to the Teahouse. I'm not seeing any irregular spacing in 2012 or 2013 in the areas you mentioned via desktop. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:41, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I can confirm the experience of @The ganymedian. This can be true even without the addition of the photo collage. For a sufficiently wide window (or sufficiently small typeface), the gap gets large. In extreme cases, the "Deaths" heading ends before the beginning of the "2013 in various calendars" infobox; the "January" heading begins after the end of that infobox. Sorry, but I don't know if there's a solution. --Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 00:16, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

"Log type rights"

I was just granted Rollback on a one month trial. Cool beans! But when I went to "View user groups" to see this and click the "Thank" button to say TY for the temp-perm being issued, I got this response: "Log type 'rights' is not in the list of permitted log types."

So I cannot thank this person without getting yet another perm or right granted first? TY. — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 00:07, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Oopsemoops Please provide a link to a page you ask about. This appears to be about Special:UserRights/Oopsemoops. It is a bug discussed at phab:T316860. It currently appears impossible to use the thanks feature for any change of user rights. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:06, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Okay let me go find it. One second. — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 01:08, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Here can you see this? [5] I only just now learned how to do 'diffs' too. :) — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 01:09, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

And yes, it seems that it appears impossible to me too. A very minor problem, but if it could be fixed, I figured I would mention it. TY. — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 01:10, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

How do I add this to Leif Erickson on Wikipedia? How to correctly add References listed in ( ).

Leif Erikson's Descendant Captain Gunnar Marel Eggertsson Commemorates him

proposed text

Genealogy connects Leifur Eiricksson (note 1 Modern Icelandic spelling) and Iceland’s modern day Captain Gunnar Marel Eggertsson, the ‘Iceland Knarr’ project’s visionary. Gunnar showed me his handcrafted model of a Viking Knarr ship, 29 May 2015 at ‘Vikingaheimer’ in Iceland. Gunnar believed Leifur sailed a Knarr ship, in search of land due west. Gunnar Marel stated his mother’s direct 33rd generation ancestor was Þjóðhildur Jörundardóttir, Eric the Red’s wife, mother of ‘Leifur Eiriksson,’ the fact discovered by an Icelandic Genealogist. (72 Gunnar Marel Eggertsson, 73 Scandinavian Review, Gunnar Marel Eggertsson, Modern Day Viking, Jennifer Marin, American Scandinavian Foundation Winter 2001) Gunnar Marel and Leifur Eiriksson were schooled in Icelandic Sagas. “The Grœnlendinga” saga states, when blown off course fisherman Bjarni Herjulfsson’s sighted land due west.(74 Vikings, The North American Saga, Edited by William W. Fitzhugh and Elisabeth I Ward, 2000 Smithsonian Institute,Gisli Sigurdsson, pgs 219 - 220 ) Leif Erickson adventurous set sail discovering land due west circa 1,000, now identified as L’Anse Aux Meadows, New Foundland North American. (75 The Vikings, Lord of the Seas, Yves Cohat, 1992 Abrahms Discoveries pg 158-159) Norwegian Archeologists Helge Ingstad and his wife explored L’Anse Aux meadows in the 1960’s. They discovered, then excavated Viking Longhouses during the 1960’s and 70’s. They found archeological objects believed from Leifur Eiriksson and his Viking ship crewmen. (76 Vikings, The North American Saga, Edited by William W. Fitzhugh and Elisabeth I Ward, 2000 Smithsonian Institute,Birgitta Linderoth Wallace, pgs 219 - 220) (L'Anse Aux Meadows is a National Heritage Site and UNESCO) Growing up in Iceland surrounded by open sea, Gunnar became an adventurous Sea Captain like his ancestor Leif Eiriksson. Gunnar shared he was raised by a few generations of Shipwrights from his father's lineage. He used his extensive knowledge of Viking Ship history and their construction in 1996, hand-building a replica of the 9th century Gokstad, a preserved Viking Ship discovered in Gokstad near Sandefjord, Norway, now housed in a Norwegian Museum. (77 https://www.khm.uio.no › english › visit-us › viking-ship-museum › exhibitions › gokstad) Gunnar Marel used traditional Norse methods building his replica of the Gokstad Viking ship, naming it, Íslendingur (The Icelander). Probably the same historical Norse methods used building Leifur Eiriksson’s Viking ship. Approved seaworthy, Captain Gunnar Marel Eggertson sailed Íslendingur year 2,000 along the understood route, ventured by his ancestor Leifur Eiriksson, departing Iceland past Greenland to L’Anse Aux Meadows in New Foundland. Gunnar further sailed down the North America Coast, stopping at various ports, ending in NYC harbor sailing past the Twin Towers. Gunnar’s journey sailing his Viking ship Íslendingur, commemorated ‘Leifur Eiriksson's’ 1,000th anniversary of his historical journey discovering North America. (78 https://www.iamreykjavik.com › islendingur-viking-ship ) Íslendingur is permanently exhibited in Vikingaheimer (Viking World) Museum in Iceland. Íslendingur’s bow looks out the windowed wall, toward a statue of Leifur Eirikison set upon a jetty. [79 https://www.vikingworld.is/ https://www.vikingworld.is]. Iceland Officials bestowed Captain Gunnar Marel Eggertson with the "Order of Falcon," for his many accomplishments as Captain, adventurer, and builder of Viking ships; “the highest, most revered Honor, Iceland confers.” (80 https://www.forseti.is/en/the-order-of-the-falcon/history-of-the-order/ ) A strong connection to Leifur Eirickson’s sailed exploration to North American is the Norse merchant Knarr ship. Historically, Knarr ships were the largest cargo merchant Viking ships, believed used in Leifur’s finding and colonizing of L’Anse Aux Meadows, New Foundland. (81 https://about-history.com › knar-the-oldest-norse-merchant-ship) Knarr's were exceptionally sea-worthy, capable of traveling 75 miles (121 km) per day. Iceland's history reveals Leifur Eiriksson would have sailed a Viking merchant Knarr Ship to North America, as Knarr merchant ships are deeper and wider than other Viking ships. Knarr's were able to carry a crew of 10-30 people, livestock, food, water and personal goods. Iceland's history notes Norse Knarr ships transported about 15,000 Norse settlers to Iceland during 874-930, the 'Icelandic Age of Settlement. (82 The Vikings, Lord of the Seas, Yves Cohat, 1992 Abrahms Discoveries pg 83(, (84 History of the Vikings, Gwyn Jones, pgs 269-282) ‘Iceland Knarr’, is Captain Gunnar Marel Eggertsson’s current Viking ship project, honoring his adventurous ancestor Leifur Eiriksson. Gunnar will build a full-scale replica of the 'Hedeby 3 Knarr' Viking merchant ship. It is the largest intact Knarr discovered in Hedeby Harbor(Haithabu), Schleswig-Holstein, Germany,1980. Gunnar’s 'Iceland Knarr' shall be hand built with the same Norse type materials, using the Scandinavian clinker tradition (lapstrake). Lapstake is the same ancient Norse manner the 'Hedeby 3 Knarr' Viking merchant ship was constructed, as would a Knarr ship Leifur Eiriksson sailed. True to Viking ships seaworthiness, Gunnar will build the ‘Iceland Knarr’ without any modern navigation instruments, as he built, then sailed Íslendingur. Hedeby (83 https://www.historyhit.com › locations › hedeby-viking-museum) was an historic Norse settlement and trading area on the southern Jutland peninsula, were Knarr ships were hand built. Norse Hedeby had access via Schiel to the Baltic and North Sea. Hedeby, now Schleswig-Holstein area of Germany is where Gunnar Marel plans to build “Iceland Knarr’. When Captain Gunnar's 'Iceland Knarr’ ship is completed, he will sail the historic journey from Hedeby to Iceland, as many Norse settlers sailed during ‘Iceland’s historic Settlement’ period. The Norse trading area Hedeby was ruled by both Danish, then Swedish Kings during this period. Gunnar will prove the Viking Knarr's ship excellent sailing capabilities in difficult seas. Gunnar’s planned modern re-enactment of Knarr’s seaworthiness, will enforce how a Knarr ship allowed his ancestor Leifur Eiriksson’s exploratory sail from Iceland, past Greenland to Newfoundland. Leifur Eiriksson and his modern day decendant Gunnar Marel Eggertsson are both commendable. Both Leifur and Gunnar influenced by their historical Icelandic Sagas, became adventurers, explorers, and courageous Captains of the high seas. https://www.icelandknarr.com

Nordicscripts (talk) 22:42, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Nordicscripts: I would propose that on the article's talk page rather than here. See WP:CITE for instructions on how to cite sources.

My own view is: The text above is not written in a neutral tone, and the wording gives me the impression that some textis copied verbatim or a very close paraphrasing, rather than being written in your own words. We take copyright violations seriously here. ~Anachronist (talk) 04:16, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Nordicscripts If your intent is to add something like the above text to Leif Erikson, you need to consider WP:PROPORTION, this is way, way to much for that article. Also, you can not write personal stories like "Gunnar showed me his handcrafted model of a Viking Knarr ship" in article text, see WP:ISAWIT. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:11, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Nordicscripts "Gunnar will prove..." See wp:Crystal which says "Wikipedia does not predict the future". 71.228.112.175 (talk) 08:39, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

That too. If the sources are good, some of this could fit at Knarr, but that article is not about Gunnar either. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:59, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Upload of non-free media file to en-Wikipedia

Hello everyone,

I have been working on the article Yuzuru Hanyu Olympic seasons, which is currently undergoing a review for FAC. For that page, I photographed two monuments and a handprint memorial, which were installed in Hanyu's hometown of Sendai, Japan, in memory of his Olympic victories. However, I did not consider that the "Freedom of Panorama" (FoP) doesn't apply to 2D artworks by Japanese copyright law. So the files probably need to get removed from Commons (see discussion on respective deletion request page).

I was informed by user HyperGaruda that under special conditions it is possible to upload the files here to en-Wikipedia, following the rules of non-free use rationale, but I am not familiar with this procedure at all and would be very grateful for some guidance by an experienced user. Thank you very much in advance. Henni147 (talk) 07:59, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Henni147, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'll give you my opinion. The process isn't that difficult, press "Upload a non-free file" at Wikipedia:File Upload Wizard and take it from there. The problem is that WP:NFCCP is very stingy. Afaict, these monuments are mentioned in the article, but is that enough for "8. Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."? You can argue that these monuments are important marks of his olympic victories, and therefore meets the criteria. Could work. Might not. Hope this helps some. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:53, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: Thank you very much for the quick feedback. Do you know whom to ask best whether the image is essential enough/meets the requirements regarding fair use? I don't want to cause another unnecessary deletion procedure. Thanks in advance. Henni147 (talk) 09:29, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Nihonjoe, care to comment? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:36, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Henni147: you might want to ask that question at WP:MCQ instead. (Given that contextual significance is a rather fuzzy line, there is no guarantee that you will get a definitive answer there either, but that’s the place to ask.) Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 11:48, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I will move the question to WP:MCQ then. Henni147 (talk) 11:59, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Not sure why my draft article sounds like an advertisement- help please!

Could someone please help improve my article to remove any of these issues and provide feedback and steps to implement the feedback

Thank you!

Draft:HomeCo Daily Needs REIT HoHo3143 (talk) 08:00, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

HoHo3143 Since creating your account this month, you have created two articles about shopping centers, a list of locations of HomeCo stores, six (SIX!) articles about individual HomeCo Stores, and Draft:HomeCo Daily Needs REIT. All of the individual stores articles and the list have been nominated for deletion. The REIT draft has been declined twice, but does have potential to be an article. David notMD (talk) 08:42, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I have realised my mistakes in creating those articles, and are happy for the HomeCo ones to be deleted. Malvern Central and Caulfield Plaza not so much HoHo3143 (talk) 08:54, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@HoHo3143 There may be more issues, but Wikipedia is generally not interested in funding rounds or capitalization; these are "routine business dealings" which don't help the average reader understand what the company actually does, and don't contribute to notability. That's most of the first two sections. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 08:44, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

It appears that all of the images were copied from copyright protected websites and must be removed. David notMD (talk) 08:49, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

• @HoHo3143: At Draft:HomeCo Daily Needs REIT, you were told three days ago on the draft page:

Please see the WP:CORPDEPTH guidance for reliable source coverage of companies and organisations. The only useful reference helping notability is Shopping Centre News. It is not enough by itself. Coverage of funding, mergers, acquisitions, etc. is considered routine and non-substantial for notability purposes. Please do not resubmit until additional better sources are added.

That advice was valid then, it is still valid now. You would do well to heed it. Have you read WP:CORPDEPTH? No amount of work on the draft will help if sources are deficient. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 09:11, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I have gone back and read it, and thought I made improvements. That's why I came here and asked for extra help. The most recent rejection was because it sounded like an advertisement. That's what I was getting help for. How would I improve corporate depth? HoHo3143 (talk) 09:15, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I am mildly displeased that you decided to resubmit the draft even as the current discussion is ongoing.

To answer the question anyway: you link to sources that satisfy all three prongs of WP:GNG, with the understanding that "in-depth coverage" excludes routine announcements of mergers, opening a new building etc. If those sources do not exist, you immediately stop working on the draft, because it will only be a waste of work: for you, for the reviewers, etc. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 09:30, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@HoHo3143: The draft still has one citation] meeting the CORPDEPTH standard. Additional coverage of routine business matters, even from the same source, does not improve the depth of coverage problem. Before you resubmit the draft, at the very minimum you need to find another reliable source, independent of both the company and Shopping Centre News, the describes the company in objective detail (history, operations, business model, etc.). I also suggest you further trim coverage of financial performance, which is more appropriate to a prospectus than an objective description. • Gene93k (talk) 16:52, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

What is your connection to HomeCo? Your attempts to create articles about every HomeCo store, a list of those stores, a draft about HomeCo in general, all strongly suggest this is undeclared paid editing. David notMD (talk) 09:37, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

No connection to Homeco

I wanted to do some research about HomeCo and learn more about the company and noticed there wasn't a Wikipedia page. I decided to create a pages for each location, and upon feedback found out that they weren't relevant. If deletion occurs for these pages then that's ok- I made a mistake and am only learning. I am however making a page for HomeCo Daily Needs REIT as a company

I have absolutely no connection to homeco and definitely never received payment for the work I've done HoHo3143 (talk) 09:48, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

David notMD, the thought of paid editing crossed my mind, but HoHo3143 has made extensive edits to unrelated articles that are very unlikely to be paid for (Warrnambool railway station, Reactions to the death of Elizabeth II). Notice that those edits are rather large, so it is not a case of gaming autoconfirmed / ECP status either. I am pretty sure the problem is overenthusiasm rather than paid editing. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 11:43, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. It appears that the copyright status of the images is under review at Commons, which addresses my other concern. David notMD (talk) 12:57, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Biographical information

 Courtesy link: User:JohnFHeckman/sandbox

I noticed that biographical information is usually in a text box at the upper right of the article. I couldn't figure out how to do that. Thanks. John Heckman JohnFHeckman (talk) 13:48, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@JohnFHeckman: This is a feature of Wikipedia's Infobox templates, which automatically format information into a box that appears on the right-hand side of an article when viewed on desktop. There's a variety of Infobox templates for various different subjects, such as {{Infobox food}} and {{Infobox drink}}, which contain different parameters relevant to the subject matter. Reading through the Manual of Style guide to Infoboxes will tell you more.—Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) ({{ping}} me!) 14:07, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) hi @JohnFHeckman and welcome to the teahouse! these boxes are called Infoboxes, which are templates you can use that display information about something. there are lots of infoboxes for people, and which one you use depends on what kind of person they are and what are they best known for (are they a writer, athlete, musician, politician, scientist, a military person, or something else?) however they generally follow the same format. take a look at this code snippet pulled from M. C. Escher as an example:

{{Infobox artist
| name          = M. C. Escher
| image         = Maurits Cornelis Escher.jpg
| caption       = Escher in 1971
| alt           = Black-and-white photograph of Escher in November 1971
| birth_date    = {{birth date|1898|6|17|df=y}}
| death_date    = {{death date and age|df=yes|1972|3|27|1898|6|17}}
| known_for     = {{hlist|Drawing|[[printmaking]]}}
| awards        = Knight (1955) and Officer (1967) of the [[Order of Orange-Nassau]]
| spouse        = {{marriage|Jetta Umiker|1924}}
| children      = 3
| father        = [[George Arnold Escher]]
| website       = {{URL|http://www.mcescher.com/}}
}}

most infoboxes have that kind of structure to them, with a pair of values representing the data type and its value: for example father = [[George Arnold Escher]] displays something like "Father George Arnold Escher" in a row in the infobox itself. for more, I'd advise you to check out similar pages. if you'd like to refine your code if it doesn't work, feel free to drop by here again or ask in my talk page. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 14:18, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Linked Pages

Hello. I'd like to know if there is any feature or function that allows you to see a list of pages that link to a specific page. For example if you were on the United States page is there a way to see a list of pages which have a link which leads to the United States page? Georgewashingtonshorse (talk) 13:49, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Georgewashingtonshorse: Either on the sidebar (on desktop) or as part of the top bar of options (next to the edit button on mobile), there's an option called "What links here". That'll show you which articles and pages on Wikipedia link to the article you're looking at.—Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) ({{ping}} me!) 14:03, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you and god bless your heart. Georgewashingtonshorse (talk) 14:16, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

How do you get around a square bracket before a wikilink?

Is the only way to format a square bracket before a wikilink by using a nowiki tag (as in ⟨nowiki⟩[⟨/nowiki⟩ before the wikilink beans)? I could've sworn there was a better way to do this, but I've forgotten, and I can't find mention of it on any MOS. Thanks!—Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) ({{ping}} me!) 13:55, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

hi @Ineffablebookkeeper and welcome to the teahouse! are you trying to display a link as the code itself [[Beans]] instead of the link Beans? you can use the tag itself, or {{subst:nowiki}} to expand something to that if you'd prefer that. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 14:24, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Melecie: it's more that I'm trying to write a portion of text in square brackets, when that text starts with a wikilink. I know you can leave a space between the first bracket and the wikilink, but I'd prefer not to – sorry if I didn't explain it very clearly!—Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) ({{ping}} me!) 15:13, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Ineffablebookkeeper As in [Link ? - just nowiki the first bracket as <nowiki>[</nowiki> - Arjayay (talk) 15:22, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Arjayay: It is also possible to use <nowiki /> formatting. [<nowiki />[[Link]] displays as [Link, and trailing brackets do not format the text as an external link. dudhhr ^talk _contribs (he/they) 16:10, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Mass replacement of "Communist Party of China" TO "Chinese Communist Party"

Hi everyone, I noticed that Amigao has largely replaced the Communist Party of China (CPC) with the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) in the English wikipedia and wikidata pages.

I have checked his talk page and found that a lot of people have put forward different opinions on his long-term mass replacement behavior, but he doesn't seem to agree with or care about these views, and continues to carry out this mass replacement behavior.

He thinks WP:COMMONNAME is the core policy, but shouldn't WP:OFFICIAL be more applicable to the Community Party of China, which has long announced and used its official name? What is your opinion on this?

Now I hope these pages can be restored, do you have any better way, thank you!—— Zzhtju (talk) 15:30, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

The names most commonly used in Reliable sources are usually preferred to official names; see this quote from WP:COMMONNAME:

Although official, scientific, birth, original, or trademarked names are often used for article titles, the term or name most typically used in reliable sources is generally preferred. Other encyclopedias are among the sources that may be helpful in deciding what titles are in an encyclopedic register, as well as what names are most frequently used.

dudhhr ^talk _contribs (he/they) 15:44, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

So as an encyclopedia, we have to let these systematic misuses or the "most commonly used" you say ignore their long-term claims and use of the official name, is it possible that the "most commonly used" itself is intentional and wrong? I think It's a systemic prejudice and discrimination that you don't have the right to decide what you are called, what we westerners call you is supremely correct, we have always called you that way and will always call you that way, you can't change it even after you've claimed it many times.

I can only think that such an encyclopedia is obedient to Western centrism and chauvinism, embodies long-standing arrogance, and completely loses its meaning as an encyclopedia.—— Zzhtju (talk) 16:19, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Also, is there any problem with this batch replacement behavior, is it in line with wiki policy?—— Zzhtju (talk) 16:26, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

It seems to me that WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OFFICIAL are in agreement: the common name should be preferred. Maproom (talk) 15:46, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

(Pinging Amigao.) Maproom (talk) 15:48, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Company Page Creation Questions

Hey everyone,

I was working with a company to create a wikipedia page for my company, but found out recently that their services are essentially a scam. However, they had said that they have a "draft of our page" hosted on their end. We still want to have the wikipedia page created, but would their "draft" cause an issue with the creation of the page? We just don't want to run into a situation where we make the page and have it immediately removed for some reason. Any help would be much appreciated, thanks! Jakemadcooltho (talk) 16:27, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Jakemadcooltho, welcome to the Teahouse. First you should make the proper disclosures per WP:PAID. After that: there's no rule which says you can't use something which you've paid someone else to prepare (presuming they haven't already published it elsewhere). The likelihood of that draft being in any way acceptable is low, and if it's blatantly promotional it may end up getting quickly deleted, but you can still try creating it here. Asking for feedback before going to WP:AfC would probably be a good idea, and reading Help:Your first article would also be a good idea. But please do disclose before doing anything else. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:38, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Jakemadcooltho, understand, too, that there is no such thing in Wikipedia as a "page for [a] company," as there might be in Facebook or LinkedIn. There are many encyclopedia articles ABOUT many companies. They are ideally written by people with no connection to the company, based on reliable sources that themselves are independent of the company. Once such a page exists, virtually anybody can edit it, and if what they edit is reliably supported by independent sources, then even if you don't happen to like it, there is really nothing you can do about it. Uporządnicki (talk) 16:47, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Jakemadcooltho, In other words, Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia of notable subjects that are given significant coverage in published sources (independent secondary sources to verify notability) and written by (mostly) volunteer editors. I would recommend you utilize the Requested article function or use the AfC process as suggested above. See WP:COI in addition to the WP:PAID link offered by the very helpful IP above. Please disclose your paid editing as prescribed. Thank you. --ARoseWolf 17:02, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Does their draft appear within Wikipedia, i.e., if you search within Wikipedia on Draft:name of company does that go to the draft? If so, I believe that your attempt to create a draft be that name would result in a reply that a draft exists. If you try to create an article directly (a very bad idea), then the article and draft would both exist. Per User 199.208.172.35. start by declaring your paid connection on your User page. The company you contracted with does not own the draft, so if it exists, you can delete content, add content, etc., and then submit to Articles for Creation for a review. David notMD (talk) 17:31, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

AfD

AfD seems like an advanced wikipedian manoeuver. I have been reading WP:AFD, WP:GD, WP:DP, WP:CSD, WP:N, WP:PERMA, etc.

Is this an example of an AfD edge case? This dude's almost absolutely a no-one in history with a permastub. He was once an elected politician. I've seen AfDs get approved with more sources, and more RSPs.

What is a good example of an edgecase AfD? Modern Methuselah (talk) 17:55, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I think you may have gotten WP:AFD confused with WP:AFC. WP:AFD is the "Articles for Deletion" page while WP:AFC is the "Articles for Creation" page. Polar opposites and yet they work hand in hand. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 17:58, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I am very confused as to how you thought I was talking about AfC?

What lead you to believe I was talking about afc? Modern Methuselah (talk) 18:01, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

You said that you've seen AFDs get approved with more sources and more RSPs which doesn't really make sense considering AFD is for deleting articles. Did you mean that they're closed as keep? ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 18:06, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

No, I meant approved as in, they got deleted.

What is a better way I can refer to the AfD process so that I don't confuse anyone else? Modern Methuselah (talk) 18:14, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused. Could you possibly give me an example where an article was deleted after there were more sources and RSPs presented? ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 18:16, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I will look for an example and send it to you. Thank you. Modern Methuselah (talk) 18:23, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Modern Methuselah. Let's talk about Fenton M. Slaughter. According to WP:STUB, A stub is an article deemed too short to provide encyclopedic coverage of a subject. That article is not a stub and so I upgraded it to start grade. The article has nine sentences of prose describing this man's life. He was an elected member of the California State Assembly, and there is strong consensus that state and provincial legislators are presumed to be notable. In addition, a property he owned is on the National Register of Historic Places, and I know from experience that the paperwork associated with such a listing will almost certainly have extensive biographical information that can be used to expand the article, which is available for download as a PDF from the NRHP website. Calling him "absolutely a no-one in history" is not a good attitude for an encyclopedia editor. If nominated for AfD, I am certain that the article would be kept, and this is not an edge case. Cullen328 (talk) 18:19, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Modern Methuselah, here is a link to a public domain biographical sketch of Slaughter published in 1890 that contains lots of additional information about his life. It only took me a few minutes to find it. Before concluding that a person is a no-one. you need to have the skills and the willingless to do a competent search for sources. Cullen328 (talk) 18:41, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

The substance of your citation is almost exactly the same as one of the working citations I read that are a part of Fenton's current page. So yes I did see that. I didn't say he was a no-one to everyone, or that there aren't maybe people alive today who really appreaciate that he was around and did things propbably decendants.

Also one of the citations on Fenton's page is dead. How does one fix dead links like that? Modern Methuselah (talk) 19:20, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Cullen328

Thank you for your comment.

I called the article a stub because at the bottom of the page it had:

This article about a member of the California State Assembly is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.

I misread WP:NPOL and did not think state (American state) level politicans were notable, especially ones who are part of multi-person legislative bodies and/or ones with short term limits. Would members of the Lok Sabha all qualify for presumed significance? That's national and huge. Would members of the New Hampshire House of Representatives all qualify for presumed significance? That's at the American state level.

Thank you for the information about the National Register of Historic Places as it relates to subjects and notability.

I said "almost absolutely a no-one in history" and did not mean it with derision. I think the likelyhood is quite high that you, me, and almost everyone we know are "almost absolutely a no-one in history" or "absolutely a no-one in history." How can I phrase this in a way that is less confusing about my tone? Modern Methuselah (talk) 18:58, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Modern Methuselah, yes, members of the Lok Sabha, past and present, are presumed notable and properly referenced biographies of them will be kept. As can be seen at Category:Members of the Lok Sabha, we already have several thousand such biographies. The same applies to the New Hampshire House of Representatives (even though that is an unusually large body) if the article is properly referenced. Just because an article was tagged as a stub does not mean that it still is a stub. Articles frequently get expanded and the editor forgets to upgrade. I upgrade articles all the time that are incorrectly tagged as stubs. As for your tone, strive for neutrality in your writing. Perhaps you did not intend it, but I perceived your tone as derisive toward the article subject. Cullen328 (talk) 19:20, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your clarification on these things!

What is more neutral for referring to a person with "limited notabitlity"? Modern Methuselah (talk) 19:27, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

"Limited notability" is in the eye of the beholder. Within English Wikipedia, it appears that valid topics are state politicians, species, towns and villages, and (I think) secondary schools but not elementary or middle schools. Wikipedia:Notability touches on criteria, especially at Subject-specific notability guidelines. David notMD (talk) 19:54, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Should the article Firehose of falsehood be flagged as non-NPOV?

The issue in question is outlined in Talk:Firehose of falsehood. I am a newer editor and would appreciate some input on this. Thanks. ShabbyHoose (talk) 18:04, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

You have tagged the article three times with non-NPOV and User:Valjean has reverted you three times. Tar is "edit-warring," and can lead to a temporary block from editing any articles. The proper path is to either enter the ongoing discussion on this very question taking place at the Talk page of the article, or start a new discussion there. Teahouse hosts are generalists. What you are seeking is a concensus amongst people with knowledge about firehosing as a strategy. David notMD (talk) 20:02, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

How do I add a vague time reference tag?

On the North Korea - Wikipedia page, in Foreign Relations, one sentence is "The relations were strained in the last few years". How do I add a tag referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MOS:REALTIME&redirect=no? סשסGrimmchild 19:56, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Grimmchild There is a template {{when}} but if you could reword to use a citation as to the exact date that would be much better. Mike Turnbull (talk) 20:37, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Amhara people page

Hi, a month ago my iP Adress was 2A00:A040:194:C4AF:14AF:E794:171E:E381 (I didn’t had an account) and all the sources that I edit on the page of the Amhara people got deleted. What can i do? Those were well accurate sources and they were deleted by the user Yonas Jh for no reason. Dsudil7379 (talk) 22:17, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Dsudil7379. The editor gave explanations in their edit summaries. You can discuss the matter at Talk:Amhara people or at User talk:YonasJH. Amhara people is an article that has been the subject of a lot of disruptive editing, and the entire Horn of Africa topic area is subject to Discretionary sanctions, so be cautious. I will leave some information about that on your talk page. Cullen328 (talk) 22:50, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Personal Biography for Wikipedia

I have developed a format for myself, James H. Mundy IV based on others biography's and would like to get mine on the register. I need to be able to attach my project to email for your review to add to Wikipedia. Can you help for ease. Instructions for either the Articles for Creation or Requested Articles are hard to navigate. Thanks James H. Mundy IV 98.146.161.109 (talk) 23:18, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I suggest you create an anonymous account and stop editing as an IP. That will give you more privacy and many more advantages here. Then save your proposed article on a subpage (format User:Blabla/James_H._Mundy_IV), all properly formatted and with independent secondary references that document your WP:Notability. Then you can get help from other editors so it will more likely survive an WP:AFD when it "goes public" and you lose any rights over it.

Another consideration... Read Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. Seriously, if you have any flaws, blemishes, or skeletons, they will likely end up in the article, and you will have no right to censor or whitewash it. If you try, the article will be kept and you blocked. Your life will be fucked. That sounds bad, but it happens.

Feel free to email me. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 00:06, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

hi ip user and welcome to the teahouse! I'd have to discourage this, since making an autobiography is heavily discouraged here. due to your inherent conflict of interest to yourself which could make your writing non-neutral (neutrality is required in Wikipedia) and creating an article already being one of the more difficult tasks for a newcomer to handle and still not an easy task for more experienced editors with a CoI, it's best to avoid making articles about yourself. there are also reasons why you may not want an article. I'd advise you to check WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY for more regarding why we discourage them.

if you want to create an article (ideally about something/one else), you don't need to send an email to have an article reviewed, you can create a draft, then follow the Articles for Creation process to continue forward. I'd also advise you to read Conflict of interest (which detail the guidelines for people connected to the things they're writing about), Reliable sources (which detail what kinds of sources can be used to back up your claims, which is generally required especially for biographies), Notability for people (which detail the criteria for if someone counts as notable for our standards and can have an article]], and Your first article (which actually get into the article creation process]]. I know that's a lot of reading, but it's important to make sure your article succeeds. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 23:52, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

If not clear from above, Wikipedia has articles, not pages, and articles are not "owned" by the creator, or for that matter, the subject of the article. As noted, WP:YFA is a guide on how to create and submit a draft for review, the reviewer either accepting, declining or rejecting the draft. For a biography of a living person (you), all factual content must be verified by indepedent references. If there are not independent publications about you that can serve as references, you will not succeed. David notMD (talk) 01:00, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Frankly, I did a Google search on your name and saw nothing that would justify a Wikipedia artivle about you. David notMD (talk) 01:08, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

screwed up citation

The page I am trying to update with 2 new citations is Suffolk University Law School. My first two citations in the references section are showing the {{cite web | language, which I need to get rid of with your kind assistance Suffolkguy (talk) 23:32, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Suffolkguy. When you use Template:Cite web (or any other citation template), you should fill out all relevant fields, especially including the title field. Leaving out titles creates problems including error messages, and references consisting only of bare URLs are not good practice. Cullen328 (talk) 00:02, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

hi Suffolkguy and welcome to the teahouse! I've worked on the citation with this diff. here's what I did:

• the reason why the {{cite web}} is showing up is because it wasn't closed (and the {{Bare URL PDF}} was opened and closed after it, which may seem like the {{cite web}} was closed), so I added two closing braces }} after the template.
• but before I closed the template, I removed the second <ref> almost completely, replacing it by referring to the first reference, which I did by making them have the same name: <ref name=informationReport>{{Cite web | ... }} in the first citation, then <ref name=informationReport /> in where the second citation used to be.
• and finally but most importantly, I filled out the details in {{cite web}}, giving it a title, date, access-date, and author. with that, I can then remove the {{Bare URL PDF}}.

happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 00:14, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Many, many thanks melecie!! Suffolkguy (talk) 01:17, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

New AfC draft marked as wrong class

I wrote a new article and submitted it for review: Draft:Vergence-Accommodation Conflict

I checked the AfC list page and it shows the draft as start-class, but it should be C-class. How can I update the class of the article? Rosedaler (talk) 03:16, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

It's actually "draft class". The AFC list page is automatically updated; you should wait for a refresh. The class is generally controlled by the wikiproject boxes on the draft talk page. ~Anachronist (talk) 03:20, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Ok, thanks! Rosedaler (talk) 03:21, 23 September 2022 (UTC)