User talk:Drmies

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Request for fact check

Hi Drmies, I'm trying to bring 1740 Batavia massacre to FA status at the moment. However, I cannot read Dutch at all, so I'm working off of Google Translate (which, as we both know, is lame). Could you double check my additions from the Dutch language sources to ensure I'm not misrepresenting them? Also, if at all possible, could you find a copy of Batavia in 1740 by W.R. van Hoevell to aid with the expansion? I'm asking you because User:Materialscientist mentioned that you are a native speaker of Dutch. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:41, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sure thing. I'm glad you're working on something important and worthwhile, although my understanding is that FA articles are generally on trivial and obscure matters. I'll be glad to help out, though it's bed time now. My bookshelves are, unfortunately, not heavily populated by Dutch history books, but I'll see what I can do. Please tell Scientist he owes me, but he can wire the bribe to User:Guillaume2303, another Dutchman, who has the number to my bank account in the Cayman Islands. Oh, if all else fails, and you want a nice and smart Dutch guy, User:Ucucha is da man, though he couldn't dance his way out of a paper bag. For tomorrow, then. Drmies (talk) 05:04, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, shame I'd need the SWIFT number to send your bribe... Thanks, I'll see if they can help with locating the sources. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:19, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is a fascinating article. I feel guilty reading these accounts. I've made some minor tweaks and left you a few notes on the talk page. I'm on van Hoevell (or, van Hoëvell). Drmies (talk) 15:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Now you can link him: W.R. van Hoëvell. Drmies (talk) 15:53, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look. I think it is getting to the point where I won't be laughed out of WP:FAC, but I want to try and find Raffles History of Java first. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:38, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot for your work yesterday as well. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:14, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Roman Catholic Vandal

Thought I'd mention this here - your friendly Roman Catholic vandal is back! Looks like someone already updated the page about him. Calabe 1992 05:06, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gee whiz, the fun never stops. With any luck my good friend Beyond My Ken has taken care of business. I'm off to bed. Thanks Calabe! Drmies (talk) 05:10, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- He's been blocked by User:Thingg, but only for 24 hours. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:16, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Upped to 6 months after I pointed Thingg to your RCV page. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:19, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - I saw, both thinggs. Thanks BMK. This is messing up my bed time. Did you notice he is now calling himself a Carthusian? He's always been interested in those articles, of course, but such lateral shifting? I guess it's good to be shifty in a new country, and the comparison with Simon Suggs is more than apt. If you're unfamiliar with that, I suggest Philip Beidler, The Art of Fiction in the Heart of Dixie. Natti natti, and thanks for housekeeping, Drmies (talk) 05:22, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nellie Bly

I've never heard of Nelly Byl, but songwriters sometimes don't get a lot of notice while they're alive. Paul Vance was so obscure that the death of his impersonator fooled even the Associated Press! As for Nellie Bly, I've always loved that the journalist who exposed the horrible working conditions in American factories inherited the company that first made the 55-gallon oil drum, a common symbol in movies and fiction for "hazardous waste". --NellieBly (talk) 05:32, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Litigators

I see your point and have resolved it.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:59, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not trying to be a jerk on purpose. Drmies (talk) 05:08, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Take

	Your Bribe
	I may not have many dollars hanging around (and I've never seen a Euro), but evil geniuses like us need to have as many zeroes on our money as possible, eh? Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:17, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nice! thanks! I have a ten euro-bill burning a hole in my pocket; I guess this one will join it. Much appreciated, Drmies (talk) 00:35, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I finally got around to looking for that Batavia in 1740--turns out it was a journal article, in Hoevell's own journal, Tijdschrift voor Nederlandsch-Indië. You had it italicized so I thought it was a book. So, W.R. van Hoevell, "Batavia in 1740", Tijdschrift voor Neerlands Indie (1840) 3.1, pp. 447-557. Do you have access to ILL or its equivalent? Or you can shell out E 108. Oh, apparently the Chinese were referred to as the "Jews of Asia". Tell me if you want to bring this into the article--it's about the Netherlands as a multi-culti society, and says that the 1740 events was one of the few occasions of "ethnic violence." I'm going to browse some more. Drmies (talk) 00:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I put in a request with ILL. I have no idea if they can help--this is a bit esoteric. Maybe you can bribe Ucucha, he's got access to a better outfit. Drmies (talk) 01:05, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I want to try and bring this to FA, but not for the cost of two months groceries (life is fairly cheap here). I will contact Ucucha and see if he may have access to the article; I had thought it was a book, so I italicized it. As for ILL, if it were available receiving said article would take a couple months if it were sent from Europe... shame. Thanks a lot. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:23, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, can you see this page? I've written up Tropeninstituut and I'm browsing their holdings. I'm about to email their librarian for help. If they have the journal, I can get a copy, one way or another, even if I have to send a friend out there to make the copies. I'll keep you posted. Drmies (talk) 02:26, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I tried searching for 1740 in Batavia, but got "The page you are looking for cannot be displayed because an invalid method (HTTP verb) was used to attempt access. ". :-S Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:44, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can't browse it on Hathitrust. It says digitized by google, but I'm having a hard time finding the link. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:50, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I found the quote, or at least part of it, I think; it's on page 485. I'll cite a bit more than you had:
Er is geen pen welke al de gruwelen kan beschrijven toen gepleegd. Al wat tot de Chineesche natie behoort, arm en rijk, oud en jong schuldig en onschuldig, al wat men ontmoet, wordt meedoogenloos vermoord. Zwangere vrouwen, zoogende moeders , argelooze kinderen, bevende grijsaards worden door het zwaard geveld. Den weerloozen gevangenen wordt als schapen de keel afgesneden. Het angstgeschrei der rampzalige slagtoffere eener blinde woede wordt verdoofd door het gejuich en gejubel der moordende menigte. Geen genade, geen mededogen, geen vergiffenis! Al heviger koken de hartstogten, al woedender vallen de slagen, naarmate de tegenstand minder is! Daaronder mengt zich het geknetter der brandende huizen, die de ongelukkigen, welke er een schuilplaats in zoeken, onder de puinhoopen verpletteren en vermorselen!
Now you can copy and paste this to replace your note 15, and add van Hoevell to your Works Cited list. Keep in mind, though, that what he's giving you can hardly be called objective and neutral history: we know now that he was an activist, and that he had an obvious POV here (ha, one with which I agree, of course), and so maybe the quote needs an adjective anyway (which might come up in FAR in the current version anyway) or a modifier of some sort. Good luck Crisco--and thanks for bringing this important article and this important piece of our history to my attention. Drmies (talk) 02:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'll take a look. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:03, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The remainder of the quote (about neighbours turning neighbours in) should hopefully be on the same page or close by. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:11, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, I didn't find it, and I read thirty more pages. What a massacre. And to restate/retract what I said earlier: van Hoevell writes with the appropriate amount of nineteenth-century drama and rhetoric, but I think he's actually quite fair, and after reading about a third of the account, I think his account is accurate though not written encyclopedically, of course. Drmies (talk) 04:18, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. Do you have the PDF, or is it only available online? I think my copy of adobe will allow me to translate it into readable text, if I have the PDF. If you do, I'll email you and you can reply with it. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:25, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So I can get these search results, but have no idea how to access the files. They all look good, but there is a suggestion to add "name="&lid=portal+download&lpos=659539">" to go to the source directly. Don't get the system. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:03, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What that link pulls up (for me, anyway) is their search engine. I went through that already; if you type in your title you get some seven hits, the second of which was our article. You can see "details" or something like that, which aren't informative at all, and you can request the article, which I did. Now, I imagine they'll email me when they have it, and then you have a day to fly to Amsterdam: they'll hold it for three days. ;) Drmies (talk) 04:20, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Argh. Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:25, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

After downloading the book and having my computer on all night to ensure I can copy and paste, I am sad to say that I cannot do so as the text and what is copied is completely different. Right now it looks like page 465 - 467 has some good stuff for the background, but I can barely type and translate fast enough. If you have the time, could you perhaps see what's useful there and put it in the article? If you have no problems with that, I'll try taking a look and finding more that could be used. Sorry to be a bother. Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:57, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, pages 498 to 500 seem to have a list of expeditions outside the city walls and who led them. If possible, could you do a summary? Thanks. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:47, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'll get on it--probably later today. Glad to help, Drmies (talk) 15:18, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I tried to do some stuff, but I got about 500 characters worth of information out of 4 hours of editing. I was focusing on dates and names, then translating around them. Not exactly the fastest or most sure way to do them. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:29, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fisting

If I read your edit summary correctly, didn't you "elevate" me? Heh. Thanks for removing the image.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:39, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, oops, yes, ahem. Let me revdel that and replace it with "peon," haha. I hope someone follows up on the AN report quickly. My wife was wondering too what the hell I was looking at. Drmies (talk) 00:47, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BLP issue

Thanks Niteshift!

Ok, I confess up front that I don't like the user, he doesn't like me and we've sniped each other a ton. None of that has to do with the BLP material he posted that I removed from the talk page for Fox News Channel.After he reverted it, I took the matter to BLPN [1]. A couple of other editors chimed in, agreeing that he violated BLP and that I was correct in removing it. However, he has decided that since the matter has seen no "admin attention", it must not be a problem and he reinserted roughly the same material (which I've reverted). Rather than creating a whole new issue at ANI, would you mind taking a look at it and rendering an opinion? Niteshift36 (talk) 04:56, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's a lot of innocent electrons that died on this topic. It's clear that there is no excuse for such opinions in the mainspace. The question comes up often enough on ANI, and the answer is always the same: a. no, per BLP policy and b. please find some other avenue to express your personal opinions. Now, I don't know if your fellow editor will accept my word on this (and let me know if you want me to post this some other place), but if he doesn't, I guess the thing is to give him a clear warning and report any violation to ANI. The opinions on the BLPN were clear enough, though--it seems you're dealing with someone who doesn't know or understand that the place isn't run by admins but by consensus. Good luck, and let me know if I can be of further help, Drmies (talk) 05:13, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It might head off future violations to make it directly clear to him since he has tried it again tonight. I'd prefer to not have to do ANI thing if he can just be told directly. Apparently he doesn't think anything is binding unless an admin says it. Niteshift36 (talk) 05:20, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK: I'll tell him this. User:JamesMLane, stop expressing personal opinions on Wikipedia, including articles, talk pages, user pages, etc. In particular, these opinions you should keep to yourself. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 05:23, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your request is noted, but I decline to grant it.

There is no Wikipedia policy or guideline prohibiting users in general from expressing their own personal opinions on talk pages, user pages, etc., where those opinions are relevant to the goal of improving an article. (Indeed, if you look at the thread that sparked this, you'll see quite a few expressions of personal opinion, including those by NiteShift36, my accuser in this matter.) Wikipedia does permit, indeed encourages, the reporting of facts about personal opinions in articles under certain circumstances, although in general a user's own personal opinions would not qualify. (See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Explanation of the neutral point of view.) If you believe that my conduct has been so abominable that I should be singled out for a permanent blanket prohibition on the expression of personal opinions, that bolt will have to come from another quarter.

Your answer refers to prior AN/I discussions. Throughout this dispute, I have sought to have the discussion turn on neutral principles of general applicability, but NiteShift36 has steadfastly resisted that approach, denouncing me when I chose to "drag" in other examples in my effort to get beyond "I don't like it." To that end, I would greatly appreciate it if you would refer me to the discussions you have in mind. This particular posting on BLP/N attracted the attention of only one uninvolved user and no coherent explanation of any general principle. I'm open to being enlightened on the point. On the basis of the information that's been presented to me so far, I believe that my comment was perfectly proper.

Nevertheless, in yet another effort to stop the waste of time and the pointless slaughter of electrons on this, I will modify my comment to incorporate the precise wording urged upon me by NiteShift36. This is without prejudice to my continuing opinion that the objection is wholly without merit. If NiteShift36 objects to other comments on the basis of a similar nonexistent policy against the expression of personal opinions, then the issue will have to be dealt with down the road. JamesMLane t c 11:34, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agian, expressing an opinion is ok, as long as it is within policy. I'm acting within policy, thus I have no fear of ANI or any other ways you plan to "deal with" this. Niteshift36 (talk) 16:03, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the full text of your second post in the BLP/N thread you started:

Had you said that "in your opinion he was lying", that would be different and we wouldn't be here. You didn't. You said "he is lying...". You further went on to call his response a "lie", stated in a declarative sense. When it was edited, you had the opportunity to edit your words to make them reflective of an opinion. You chose to just revert. Pretending that you are being censored is a joke. State your opinion, just do it within the policies.

In response to your statement, I edited my post (although I thought my original was perfectly proper). I adopted your exact proposed wording. In my first comment that you objected to, I added the prefatory language "In my opinion" -- and this was after having already made the same point, in detail, in a parenthetical after the comment. As to my second comment, which you improperly edited by changing my chosen word "lie" to your chosen word "statement", I let your edit of my comment stand, again acquiescing to your unjustified desire in the hope that we could put this behind us. See cumulative diff here (the first couple paragraphs).

Your reaction was to delete my comment yet again (including, amusingly enough, your deletion of the language that I had inserted based on your own post here) -- see diff. As icing on the cake, you said I was "adding a NPA", by which you presumably meant that I was adding a PA, because I said that my specification that the comment was my own opinion was "for the benefit of anyone who was slow to comprehend that point." Of course, I cannot claim pride of authorship in that jibe -- your prior edit, one of your multiple deletions of part of my signed comment, was accompanied by the ES explanation that you were "fixing the error made by the slow to comprehend crowd", which could refer only to me.

So, to recap: You deleted my comment on the purported basis that I hadn't used the magic words "In my opinion" and you said that, with those words included, there would be no BLP issue; but when I included the exact phrase you demanded, you again deleted the comment that you evidently didn't like. Furthermore, when you refer to a slowness to comprehend, it's perfectly OK, but when I grow impatient with you and use your own phrase, it's a personal attack.

At this point there's clearly no reason for me to spend any time discussing with you. You and I are coming from completely different perspectives. I try to follow neutral principles of general applicability. Your approach is different. Neither of us has a hope of persuading the other.

Drmies has at least begun an effort to ground an objection on something beyond his temporary whim. Accordingly, I'll continue the discussion with him. JamesMLane t c 12:05, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I know exactly what I said. I also know exactly what kind of silliness you are trying to pull. Go complain to anyone you want. One of us is on the right side of this policy and it's not you. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:55, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

JamesMLane, you may have a look at the case of User:Mindbunny, now indefinitely blocked because of various disruptions. I'm not saying that you are a disruptive editor at all, or that you are disruptive like Mindbunny (who set the bar really high), but it started with, basically, the cussing out of public living figures. Have a look at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive695#Mindbunny_making_attacks. But note also the opening sentences of our BLP policy: "Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. Such material requires a high degree of sensitivity, and must adhere strictly to all applicable laws in the United States, to this policy, and to Wikipedia's three core content policies." In the opinion of a majority of editors, established by a number of cases on ANI, this includes cussing out (or "telling the truth," as some would call it). Happy editing, Drmies (talk) 15:15, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Mindbunny example

I appreciate your pointing me to the Mindbunny discussion. There's a daunting amount of material about that user. I've read some, skimmed some, and ignored some (i.e., not clicked on every link, and some of those that I did try to follow were broken). Just from what I read, though, here are the most important points in the current context:

1. Mindbunny made general statments about living persons -- for example, calling several Wikipedians "racists" and saying "Robert Mugabe is degenerate and corrupt." On my talk page, you attempted to analogize my conduct to this by saying that I had called a living person a liar. As I pointed out there, I did not call a living person a liar. I said that one particular statement was a lie. There is a huge difference. I made no general observations about Roger Ailes's character or lack thereof. Furthermore, to apply the BLP standard in a case like this would mean that Wikipedia editors would be improperly inhibited in discussing any proposition that had been asserted by a living person.

I think it was Aristotle who wrote, “To say, of that which is false, that it is false, is to say that which is true.” Editors on talk pages must be free to call out falsehoods. Analyzing a specific proposition doesn’t run afoul of BLP even if the person who voiced the proposition is still alive.

2. I'm not clear on the context in which most of Mindbunny's comments were made, but they appear to have come totally out of left field. Several editors mentioned WP:POINT, apparently concluding that Mindbunny was deliberately making provocative remarks for the sole purpose of inflaming a situation. One of Mindbunny's harshest critics, User Errant, wrote: "BLP is intended to discourage exactly those sorts of expressions of opinion as generally non-constructive. It is even explicit on this point: Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced and not related to making content choices, should be removed, deleted, or oversighted as appropriate." (Italics and boldfacing by Errant)

This is precisely the opposite of my comment, which was directly related to making content choices. The discussion was about how Wikipedia's article space -- specifically, the articles about Fox News Channel and Fox News Channel controversies -- should handle studies of the comparative information levels of Fox News viewers. Some editors were arguing that the summary of a study by Fairleigh Dickinson University should be deleted. Their arguments amounted to saying that they saw grounds for believing that the conclusion was inaccurate. In response, I argued that our standard is verifiability, not truth. As a handy example, I pointed out that the material already in article space included Roger Ailes's criticism of an earlier study, by the University of Maryland, as a "push poll". We could verify that Ailes made the comment but, far from verifying that it was accurate, we could readily determine that it was not.

Thus, my comment served two content-related purposes:

First, I thought it quite possible that some of the editors wanting to delete the FDU study were influenced by their affection for Fox News Channel and their antipathy toward any criticism of it. By putting the shoe on the other foot, I hoped to get them to see that the standard they were applying (let's take potshots at the FDU study) could be applied to pro-Fox material that they would want to see remain in article space (because the inaccuracy of Ailes's comment was even clearer than any of the criticisms being made of the FDU study's methodology). Consistent with my support for the policy of verifiability, my view was that both the FDU study and the Ailes statement -- the Ailes lie, in my personal opinion -- should be included, to give the reader the full picture.
Second, if the consensus ended up being to remove even the accurate report of the FDU study, on the (improper) ground that Wikipedia editors disagreed with it, then at least that standard might be applied neutrally, which would mean removing Ailes's comment if other editors joined me in disagreeing with it. We should judge pro-Fox and anti-Fox material by the same standard.

Whether or not you agree with my arguments about how the article space should handle this subject, I hope it's clear that my disputed comment was indeed "related to making content choices" and thus not prohibited by BLP.

3. Mindbunny appears to have been engaging in quite a few hit-and-run personal attacks -- expressing a negative opinion and moving on. In my case, however, I explained the basis for my conclusion that this particular statement was a lie. The FDU study was totally different from a push poll. The nature of the FDU study is described in the cited FDU report and in the cited secondary sources about it. The actual nature of a push poll is described in our article. There is no similarity. Furthermore, Roger Ailes is a longtime political operative, as our bio of him makes clear, who is now the head of Fox News and who therefore had a vested interest in criticizing any study that reflected badly on Fox News, as the FDU study did. You quote BLP that we "must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page" but there is no good-faith dispute about any of this information. Wade through all the different threads of this tempest in a teapot and you won't find a shred of a question on that score.

My conclusion from these facts was that not only was Ailes's statement false, but he must have known it to be false, and he was deliberately smearing a critic because he was pursuing an ideological agenda. That was the basis for my opinion that it was no innocent or inadvertent mistake, but was instead a lie. I voiced this opinion and used the word "lie" because it was relevant to the content issue of what kind of review editors should apply to statements from prominent persons that are quoted in Wikipedia. My point was that the Ailes comment was far "worse" than the FDU study, if we were going to get into the business of reviewing all the reliable sources and deciding which view our readers should adopt (a business I obviously don't think we should get into).

4. My opinion about a particular statement by Roger Ailes is not the type of "information" referred to in the BLP passage you quoted. From the context, it was clear that I was voicing a personal opinion. NiteShift36, who apparently brought you into this, implied that it wasn't clear, and said that if I had written "In my opinion" there would have been no BLP issue. I thought it was quite clear without that but I added the superfluous "In my opinion" to appease NiteShift36 -- who then reverted me again anyway.

What is the role of opinions here? On a controversial subject like Fox News, opinions will differ. The relevant information for the article space is what opinions have been voiced by prominent spokespersons. The subject is covered in WP:NPOV:

Avoid stating opinions as facts. Usually, articles will contain information about the significant opinions that have been expressed about their subjects. However, these opinions should not be stated in Wikipedia's voice. Rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources, or where justified, described as widespread views, etc.

This is why it would be a mistake to say that opinions, even negative opinions about living persons, must be excluded unless they can be shown to be correct.

By way of example, later in the thread on Talk:Fox News Channel I pointed out that we were quoting Ann Coulter's use of the word "hoax" in her criticism of the University of Maryland study. Most or all of the University of Maryland researchers, whose names appear in the footnote in the Wikipedia article where "hoax" is used about them, are probably still alive. Thus, the Coulter comment is negative and contentious about specific named living persons and is not sourced to anything. We're just reporting Ann Coulter's opinion. For purposes of the BLP policy, is there some principled distinction between my use of "lie" and her use of "hoax", such that BLP prohibits one but not the other? No one denouncing my comment has articulated any such principle. (Of course, one distinction is that she's prominent and I'm not, which is why it's proper for us to quote her in the article but it would not be proper to quote me. I never made a single article-space edit saying that Ailes lied.)

I appreciate your taking the trouble to give me the link to the Mindbunny discussion. Frankly, however, it doesn’t come close to persuading me that there was anything wrong with my original comment, the one repeatedly reverted by NiteShift36. JamesMLane t c 12:05, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

JamesMLane, if you reinstate your December 2 comment "He is lying through his teeth to support a pre-determined ideological agenda" you may be blocked for violation of WP:BLP. Your comment is inconsistent with prevailing community standards. If anyone notices you adding that comment again I hope someone can nudge me so that I can issue a block. EdJohnston (talk) 15:48, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ed--I couldn't agree more. Thank you for keeping an eye on things. JamesMLane, thank you for responding, though I'd like to point out that brevity is the soul of wit and that EdJohnston is correct. Drmies (talk) 17:41, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apropos Victor Hugo and his publishers: "?" ... "!" - Sitush (talk) 17:59, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Drmies. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:43, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

RFA thank you

Thank you for your support at my recent successful RFA. Being now the new fellow in the fraternity of administrators, I will do my best to live up to the confidence shown in me by others, will move slowly and carefully when using the mop, will seek input from others before any action of which I might be unsure, and will try not to break anything beyond repair. And note, we may be able to make an inclusionist of you yet... if you are not careful. Best, Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 21:19, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Congrats, MQS. Honestly I had forgotten to check on the RfAs the last week; I don't know if I missed some excitement or not. But you have a mop now, and that's what counts: congratulations! BTW, I'd like for you to run that tool on my AfD contributions and tell me where I stand, and what my success rate is. I may be less deletionist than you think. Happy days, Drmies (talk) 21:30, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rumours

Hey, Professor...I've gotten three texts in the last hour quoting "reliable sources" alleging were gonna play Jan 9. The rumour mill is grinding away at light speed. Tiderolls 00:36, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've been so busy today I didn't even follow the Colts losing yet again. I never even read the sports pages today! Did you see the madness after the OK game? I sure hope you're right... Drmies (talk) 01:10, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, it's happening! Drmies (talk) 01:29, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Now we have to wait a month. I hold some sympathy for those folks that decry the process. Being in the BCS championship makes it easy for me to be gracious, I know. Still, I've never thought the BCS was the answer to all concerns. NCAA football needs a playoff, full stop. Roll tide Tiderolls 02:20, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2012 BCS National Championship Game

Was watching Selection Show live! Ucla90024 (talk) 01:33, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Gotcha. See your talk page. That OK State coach did not look happy. Drmies (talk) 01:34, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bonnie Charlie

Thanks for your very good work on this - the original article (look at the bottom of the history, before I found it) was absolutely woeful, so that I was moved to fix it a bit, in spite of not really being that interested. I do think we need to underline that it was written long after the event, and that it is not a "real" Jacobite song. It perhaps also needs to be said (although I shied away from doing so) that Jacobitism and Scottish independence are totally different things. Anyway - I have reinstated (with slightly different wording) one sentence of my deathless prose that you have seen fit to expunge - perhaps it still doesn't say quite what we mean - and in any case I'm not going to war over it, but you might think a bit about how we can say this (and even find a source to back us up?). On the whole, well done though! Most impressed. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:18, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Well done to you too. I've made some minor tweaks (with hopefully sufficient edit summaries). I think I've mined about as much as I can, but I'll keep looking for it--I'm hoping for some scholarly work. I'd like to get this up to GA status, if only to prove a point to the Wikimedia Foundation. Thanks again! Drmies (talk) 15:01, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

99.7.116.70

Hello! I noticed you previously blocked 99.7.116.70 on 26 NOV for vandalism. On 3 DEC, they posted this after I reverted an edit, then promptly removed it. Just keeping you in the loop on this, in case you keep your eye on this IP editor and find they quickly resort to disruptive activities. AzureCitizen (talk) 17:09, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the note. I left them a warning. Drmies (talk) 17:15, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

December 2011

Your recent editing history at Rick Santorum shows that you are in danger of breaking the three-revert rule, or that you may have already broken it. An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Breaking the three-revert rule often leads to a block.

If you wish to avoid being blocked, instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to discuss the changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. You may still be blocked for edit warring even if you do not exceed the technical limit of the three-revert rule if your behavior indicates that you intend to continue to revert repeatedly. Drmies (talk) 01:24, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Talking to yourself again, Drmies? There are folks who can help you with that. LadyofShalott 01:42, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, I wanted to be fair. As you can see below from WillBeBack's unsigned message, apparently I have issues there. But I guess the other editor didn't stop, as you can see from another message below. Drmies (talk) 02:42, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

come on man

seriously? What's the issue? I know and you know that the info is there. There are two sources on that sentence. I want to have a discussion on why you want it deleted, because this is blatant editwarring.--Screwball23 talk 01:40, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it is, as well as a BLP violation. See below. Drmies (talk) 02:39, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Screwball23: 3RR in 43 minutes, 4RR in 17 hours

Do you really think he learned his lesson from his vacation for disruptive editing? <g> Collect (talk) 02:24, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hehe, no. Drmies (talk) 02:36, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Canvassing and closing

Canvassing an editor for help, and then closing a long thread about him on ANI, gives an impression of inappropriate collusion. Please be more aware of the need to edit neutrally, especially when administrative issues are involved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Will Beback (talk • contribs) 21:27, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't aware that I had canvassed, but OK. Or, you can judge the close for what it was worth: a neutral observation based on the facts. Thank you again. Drmies (talk) 02:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, you should know that every time I run into him I get shit--see my RfA, for instance. I have no reason to be lenient or friendly with him, but I do think it is important to be fair. Which makes me the most likely candidate to close that endless thread. Now, I appreciate your advice, don't get me wrong, and thank you for it. Drmies (talk) 02:46, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Errm...time is a healer?...Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Drmies - crikey after reading that historic I am a bit lost for words. - I am going to work on turning your experience round. Thanks. Youreallycan (talk) 03:04, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's nice to hear...I wonder, can you give Mindbunny a call as well? ;) BTW, I hope you have noted that I've tried to stay away from threads involving you, because, if I came down hard on you or even blocked you, the suspicion of payback would be all too easy. I aim to keep it that way: you and I have butted heads too often and I want to make sure I'm fair. You'll note that I just disagreed with you on an issue Talk:Rick Santorum--sorry about that. All the best, and keep the faith (and I'll keep mine, haha), Drmies (talk) 03:11, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Drmies, my apologies for reacting like that. There are a lot of negative ions in the air right now, but that's no excuse. Keep up the good work. Will Beback talk 09:13, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Will, no problem at all. BLPs do this, and I shouldn't have bitten back. I saw your work on the talk page and was duly impressed by your comprehensive overview; in fact, I was looking around to see if I could add to it from the Dutch papers, but their electronic archives are a pain in the ass. Oh, that Santa Ana reference--you know that article needs a ton of work... Drmies (talk) 14:52, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, Drmies. You have new messages at DGaw's talk page.
Message added 03:36, 6 December 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

DGaw (talk) 03:36, 6 December 2011 (UTC) Hi My name is Miranda And i was just wondering why Erika Fong was deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.15.232.164 (talk) 21:48, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about the revert

I should wait for my watchlist to complete loading and Javascript rewriting before I revert vandalism. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:33, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Could not parse twinkleoptions.js". No worries. Hope you didn't block Crisco. Drmies (talk) 17:04, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think I can second that feeling. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:45, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	Thanks for the block on 91.122.93.70‎! Is a sockpuppet investigation re Editor75439 (talk · contribs) indicated? Allens (talk) 19:12, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Question is this really a place to?

A barnstar for you!

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	For your uncomplaining help, freely given to the new students at Addictive personality. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:33, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, BTW, I think you meant WP:REFNAME rather than CITESHORT, in this edit summary. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:34, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know...

...That Coeur Alaska, Inc. v. Southeast Alaska Conservation Council just passed as a Good Article? How are things? I have been off the grid for a while, I see that you are up to your usual shenanigans. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 21:26, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent! Congrats, K! Hey, did you know the Lady came by for dinner last week? I was going to make chocolate-covered bacon but things were a bit hectic. You and the little k's doing well? and Mrs. K? Drmies (talk) 21:27, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yay, K, congrats! Yep, I had a good time visiting with the Family Mies. LadyofShalott 22:56, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I am glad I did it, and was surprised that it did not have many issues (much love for those who tweaked it for me before I nominated it). Next step is FA I suppose, I will have to look into what additional criteria there is, would be nice to get a picture, do you know anyone in Alaska? I didn't know you had such distinguished company for dinner, excellent. The family is doing well, gearing up for the big move. I leave Mongolia (for the last time) in 6 days, then Christmas at home, and heading to Australia at midnight on the 5th (via London and Dubai). Around the world in 21 days (literally)...be sure to come on down and see me some time! Crikey mates! (getting the Aussies here to bring me up to speed on the language).--kelapstick^(bainuu) 00:02, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - What is it with you, the moment you sit down your butt protests? Good luck with everything, K. And no, I don't know anyone in Alaska, haha. Maybe you can suggest to CoM that he take a road trip. Drmies (talk) 16:25, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - No, when it gets to -20°C I protest! I submitted a request from the Army Corps of Engineers to see if they had anything, but thus far, no love. Maybe CoM can get one, he seems to be good at that sort of thing...or was good.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 21:24, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Semiprotection

GorillaWarfare's talk page is receiving crude attention. Perhaps semi-protection is in order for the duration of this phase of the fundraising drive? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:15, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, you're the best. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:28, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You know, it doesn't matter whether I was running a company of assassins or a school of accountancy, I'd want her on board. Drmies (talk) 23:33, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What sort of school do you teach at, precisely? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to know that myself. Apparently, next semester I'm teaching business writing. Drmies (talk) 03:58, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

198.161.203.6

There was some discussion at this user's talk page regarding your block, apparently the block reason was odd. On a side note, one of the comments left by the user was rather disparaging. Calabe 1992 23:43, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's strange--it says "vandalism", clear for everyone to see. Of course it also says "and a one-two-three", in Dutch, but that's a minor matter. ;) Drmies (talk) 00:09, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, Drmies. You have new messages at Alpha Quadrant's talk page.
Message added 23:44, 6 December 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

Alpha_Quadrant ^(talk) 23:44, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Per your suggestion [2]. Alpha_Quadrant ^(talk) 00:51, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Probably should have read the article first. From Rosa foetida: "It has yellow flowers with a mild, sour scent many find objectionable, thus the species name." Rather, I just went by the look... Alpha_Quadrant ^(talk) 00:57, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, I have no doubt that GW, who is a literature buff, can find the appropriate allegory there. AlphaQuadrant, you are a total ladies' person. Drmies (talk) 01:11, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm...the statement is unsourced, I can slap up a [citation needed]. I did a google search on the subject. It does appear that some people dislike the musky scent. Then again, some people actually like the scent. There does appear to be a hybrid of the plant that has a sweet scent. Well, in any case, at least I didn't give her Tagetes. Alpha_Quadrant ^(talk) 02:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A kitten for you!

Thank you for the talk page protection and looking out for me! :] Hope things are well.

– GorillaWarfare (talk) 01:16, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome, dear Gorilla. In the meantime, I got some good advice, and was able to give some as well. Thanks for sticking your neck out and getting your talk page fouled up, on behalf of us ugly folk. Drmies (talk) 01:20, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification

Hi. In W.R. van Hoëvell, you recently added a link to the disambiguation page Groningen (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. For more information, see the FAQ or drop a line at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:11, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Selena fans

I read your note posted at WP:AN, there's currently only five Selena fans on Wikipedia and one (being myself) who edits and expands her articles to GA class. BTW you may want to see this since you said you aren't familiar with her. Best and happy holidays, Jona yo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 14:35, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much! Drmies (talk) 20:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome :-) Jona yo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 15:36, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Help

Hi there UEFA Euro 2012 foe (although i don't care much for the fate of my "national" team, with this guy and maybe this guy, and maybe some more...)!

Could you please try to retrieve some refs for the Theo Lucius article? Unfortunately, the ones there were DEAD, and my Dutch is close to none. If you manage to find stuff for the PERSONAL section and his work as a carpenter, i'll be (WP will be better said!) awfully pleased.

Attentively, thank you very much in advance - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 18:55, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Have already added some, feel free to make the due corrections. --Vasco Amaral (talk) 19:13, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I see that the article for the 2012 cup already has the proper results, with us at the top and you at the bottom. Drmies (talk) 20:06, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Dude! Lucius is a PSVer! What is WRONG with you? Drmies (talk) 20:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - OK, I found one thing. How much more do you need? As much as possible? The man is incredibly boring. Do you know what his hobby is? It doesn't get more predictable than this: fishing. And not deep-sea fishing, no, he had a fishpond built in his backyard. Drmies (talk) 20:24, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What the hey? Indeed quite boring :) The first ref is amazing, thanks a million. If you could just find anything for the PERSONAL section (especially the second paragraph), i think it'd be more of less thorough. Ah, and please add a TRANS_TITLE to the ref you added, go the extra mile for the PSVer... --Vasco Amaral (talk) 21:22, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You know, your PSVer can kiss my 1995 Europa Cup 1! With the big ears! Drmies (talk) 21:32, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is it me or you seem upset in that last remark? Don't hold any grudge against me my friend, i was only trying to be amusing, not even a PSV fan :( --Vasco Amaral (talk) 21:43, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, that's you, haha. I am not easily upset by soccer. Well, that awful, awful match we played against you guys a couple of years ago, that upset me. Hey, I got his fireworks covered. There's something else: once upon a time he did something with a woman, you know, with his own and her organs, and the result was, you know, ahem, another human, and it made the paper. It's touched upon in the carpenter article, but I prefer to leave such stuff out unless it is very well verified and relevant and all. That OK with you? Drmies (talk) 21:49, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I knew it had to be a misunderstanding on my part, you're as cool as they come! Me, i try not to get that upset by soccer, but i do more than often (and that not even being fan of any club, LOL!). After your additions, the article, in my modest opinion, is M-A-R-V-E-L-L-O-U-S (but i rephrased the "loses big" stuff in his poker bit, that was "cruel" Mies :)) Keep it up, dankiu vel - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 23:08, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Hehe, I thought you might catch that. But it is true: they like playing with him because they usually win his money--that is what the article says. Take it easy Vasco! Drmies (talk) 23:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pilgrim at Tinker Creek update

Hey, Drmies, don't know if you saw but I've provided an update here. I think it's ready for another review, if you have time? María (yllo submarine) 14:45, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reminder; I'm on it. Drmies (talk) 14:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks so much for the awesome review! María (yllo submarine) 16:22, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You might be interested...

The illustrious McLobster will not be coming to a McDonalds near you.

in the discussion at WP:VPP#Change of policy towards Dutch (and other non EN-languages) Wikipedia's. (BTW, that apostrophe really bothers me.) LadyofShalott 09:21, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ha, I was going to rename it, but then links like this one won't work. Yes, Dutch uses -'s for plural, and -s for genitive. Very confusing sometimes. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 15:03, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah, I had assumed it was a greengrocer's apostrophe. It's interesting to learn that Dutch uses a pattern of noun-marking inverse to what English uses. Languages are fascinating! LadyofShalott 15:21, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I just read the article on Dunglish. Some of the examples sound to me like things said by native speakers of English. For example, I have an uncle, who I can guarantee doesn't know a word of Dutch, who pronounces "idea" like ID. Also, it isn't exactly identical to the usage as described in Dunglish, but "How goes it?" is a not uncommon way of asking how things are going. LadyofShalott 15:42, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In unrelated matters... see this. LadyofShalott 18:29, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ha, yes. I wonder how one tracks literally. I guess I tracked virtually? And found something as well. Drmies (talk) 18:31, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, good block; thank you. Policy: block as for vandalism, barring the establishment of open-proxy editing. YGM. Drmies (talk) 18:32, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- In related news: I ate a McRib the other day, for the first and last time in my life. This guy was correct. Drmies (talk) 18:38, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I only see a blank page with that link, but I think the URL gives me the idea. I don't think I've ever had, or wanted, a McRib. LadyofShalott 19:01, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - What about a McLobster? (directed at the lady, as I know that the good doctor has never eaten lobster)...--kelapstick^(bainuu) 21:14, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Do those exist in some parts of the world? Or are you speaking tongue-in-cheek? LadyofShalott 21:42, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        They are available for a limited time (while lobster are in season) in the Maritime provinces, and (so I am told) the northeastern United States. In Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, you can even get a lobster sub at Subway (seasonally as well). A picture is on the way, but it is a very tedious process, download from Facebook for BlackBerry, email to self, upload to commons... :|--kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:08, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        (ec) As far as I know, it's not available in my corner of the US. The idea of Mickey D's serving lobster does sound strange to me, though I have heard that at one time it was servant food, not what the hoity toity ate. LadyofShalott 22:19, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        List of McDonald's products shows it as available in New England, and as we all know, everything on The Wikipedia is correct. Proof of existance has been provided. It wasn't bad.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:33, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        OK, so this is our next DYK? I need to get to 175. K, that sandwich, it actually looks delicious. But that McRib, after it was talked up so much, it's vile. And that's not a BLP violation, or even a BDP violation, since apparently nothing died to make it. Drmies (talk) 00:03, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

←In case you need a source...[3]--kelapstick^(bainuu) 02:08, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"McRice... It is normal rice." That made me chuckle. LadyofShalott 03:27, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I will be in Beijing Tuesday, I think there is a McDonald's at the airport, I will for sure be craving a burger. I will see if they have it.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 03:37, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if you want a picture of McRice I could always use a reason to go to McDonald's... I don't usually order the fried chicken and rice though. Hehe. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:01, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fried chicken and rice from Mickey D...what is this world coming to. Hey, I read somewhere that McDonalds also serves salads. Speaking of crazy ideas! BTW, I'm slow-cooking an 8-pound Boston butt today. You can all come for dinner; Crisco, you'll have to make a run for the airport right now. Drmies (talk) 15:08, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I seem to remember five slices of bacon between two slices of chicken breast at a certain state-named restaurant... sounds delicious! I'd have had to leave yesterday to get there in time, LOL (time difference + 24 hour flight minimum... argh!) Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:31, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Batavia Massacre (again)

Hi Drmies, I think I'm about ready to send the article to the Guild for a pre-FAC copyedit, but I was wondering if you'd have a chance to add those early encounters I mentioned above. Also, if there is anything pertinent to quote in letter from Governor-General Adriaan Valckenier from page 493 to 496, that would be nice. Thanks for all your help! Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:53, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I may have gotten lost on my own talk page. I'll get on it in a bit. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:54, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks! (Interesting threads, if I do say so myself. Having fried chicken be the most popular dish at McDonald's here seems tame in comparison). Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:02, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Crisco, something occurred to me. I don't know where I read it, but I did: according to the source I read (a book, or something else that seemed reliable enough) the immediate cause was not just general hatred of Chinese or overpopulation or something, but sugar. (That is, tariffs on sugar to limit production in the Far East of sugar, the development of clandestine sugar trading channels, etc.). See what you can find. I'm on Batavia in 1740. Drmies (talk) 04:40, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It may be somewhere in the early pages of "Batavia in 1740" -- That would explain why they kept using sugar mills as strongholds. I will see what I can find. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:57, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Browsing several sources (Ricklefs, Raffles, and Kemasang), the poor Chinese mainly worked in sugar mills. Not sure if that is pertinent. No mention of taxation. Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:46, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good addition, btw. Thanks for all this. Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:53, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suiker

The Dutch wiki makes brief mention. In summary, the sugar economy had collapsed (the reasons for which are incredibly interesting, and a world-wide development) and thus the Chinese workers on those sugar plantations were out of a job. Translate this with Google--I think it is fairly accurate though, as usual, unsourced. Anyway, the article now moves from "economic prowess" immediately to the July deportation order. Somewhere in there should be a (short) paragraph on sugar (and it was the Chinese who lived outside the walls, without any of the rights that the ones inside enjoyed): all the sources I read agree that sugar matters here.

So, the sugar culture probably deserves its own article! But that's for another time. Its relevance, though, is clear: "The boiling of the sugar was exclusively done by the Chinese" (and that's what those sugar mills are, apparently--suikermolens), and "the industry reached its high point in 1710, when there were 130 mills, almost all of them owned by the Chinese." (BTW, the next sentence says there were already complaints about deforestation...a sad note...)

There are some Dutch sources to make this point, but to my surprise I quickly found a couple of English ones: this gives you "sugar millers" to add to the skilled artisans, and there's this snippet view, "basically an overreaction by Company administrators to the revolt of Chinese sugar mill workers in the Batavia environs." By the same token, the results of the massacre on the sugar industry deserves mention: it "dealt production a crushing blow" (this source has useful background information as well); somewhere in one of the sources you already have or maybe one that I just looked at recently I saw this expressed in numbers, how many mills were left. This is helpful and has numbers and context. Oh, this one to conclude with: there were 66 mills left--this source actually may be the best one, and the easiest to summarize (if I were teaching economic history I'd assign this book: it's fascinating, well-written, and full of real detail). Oh, where there's sugar, there's also arak...Cheers, Drmies (talk) 16:06, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, since the mills were usually owned by the Chinese elite, they suffered from the violence economically as well--which can be covered in the "how many sugar mills were left" department. One more thing: the "at the same time" paragraph, at the end of background, that's not really at the same time, since that time is the evening of 1 October and what's mentioned in the paragraph is part of the background. That is the paragraph ("There were economic factors as well") that can cover sugar. Crisco, you may not like these comments...because it means that you (and I'll be glad to help) have to get this in the article to ensure that it is comprehensive and well-researched.... Drmies (talk) 16:13, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think I should be able to take care of some of the English sources, but would it be possible for you to deal with the Dutch ones? I don't mind if its a decently digitized PDF (copy and paste to Google Translate), but after "Batavia in 1740" I am a little wearisome of typing it word-by-word then double checking to make sure I didn't switch an e and o or something like that. 23:16, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

K, I think that should cover it (good idea to put the sugar information in the short paragraph in the background section). Do you have anything extra to add before I expand the lead and put the article up for a copyedit? Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:58, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't remember the taxation details--maybe I meant tariffs, and they were someplace else in the world anyway. I'll have a look today. Drmies (talk) 15:05, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Any luck on the taxation / tariffs? Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:52, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. The last one I added was the one I must have seen last week or so. I added some of the relevant information with ugly, bare URLs--I am not acquainted with your fancy formatting. I may look for some Dutch sources as well. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 03:03, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot, I'll touch up those references (the SFN citation style takes a bit of work to learn, but I've never gone back since) Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:10, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Demand continued to grow, with consumption tripling between 1700 and 1740. Planters responded by increasing production, which in turn kept prices low, motivating Europeans to consume even more sugar. When prices began to rise again in 1734, sugar consumption was already well established in Europe..." Yes, prices began to rise--in the Caribbean, not the East Indies. Oh, by 1740 sugar was half the price it was in 1720. I don't know if you need to use this, or even want to, but I think we have a consistent picture here. You think this is enough? I think it probably is. Drmies (talk) 03:20, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think that should be enough as well, thanks. These two can be worked into a single sentence. Afterwards, I will expand the lead a little (make sure sugar is mentioned, a couple of other things) then send it to the guild. Thanks a lot! Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:28, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Does the Sugar entry have an author or article title? I can only see limited preview here. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:34, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

<--August von Wachtel, "Development of the Sugar Industry." (Paper read before the New York Section of the Society of Chemical Industry, 24 March 1911. The American Sugar Industry and Beet Sugar Gazette Vol XIII.5. May 1911. pp. 200-203. Price in 1720: 29.76 per pound. In 1740, 14.91. Numbers on page 200. Sorry, that took a while--netbook screen issues. Drmies (talk) 04:23, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks. I understand... hate to bother you again, but are those prices in dollars, ducats, or...? Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, Smurkiaanse Foepies! Haha, I guess dollars--it didn't say (I looked), but it's an American publication. No bother, Crisco. Hey, I saw I misspelled your name in an edit summary--my apologies. Drmies (talk) 04:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, in that case they won't be much use if inserted (already converted from whatever currency to 1911 dollars, then we'd have to convert to 2011 dollars... argh). No problem with the name. Some people here spell my given name with a T, so I've seen worse. I'm not the messiah! Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:52, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but "half" is not subject to inflation! Drmies (talk) 05:05, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Although it is subject to interest.... Indeed! Thanks for everything. Fingers crossed. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:20, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More vandalism

Raggi's doing it again. Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry ^Talk 01:18, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you much, unfortunately. Drmies (talk) 01:29, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Just as a heads-up, Raggi didn't violate WP:BLP policy this time around, although he has certainly been given plenty of rope since violating it multiple times in the past. This time out he just inserted himself into the MCFC Academy squad. I don't believe that's a violation of BLP policy per se ... although it's obviously vandalism of the same kind that he's been repeatedly warned about and requested not to do throughout his editing history. Just letting you know in case some other admin unblocks him because he feels your reason for blocking him was unjustified, thus allowing him to get off on a technicality. Thanks for taking care of the situation so quickly. Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry ^Talk 03:42, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - It was a continuation of more of the same edits--in fact, I didn't even look at that, I looked at John Rooney (footballer), which they've been messing with since September. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 04:07, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A misdirected question

Please see User talk:LadyofShalott#Question. I think that should have been aimed at you. LadyofShalott 03:20, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DYK suggestion

I've written a new article Hotel Polen fire which I think might pass DYK. But the procedure seems very complicated to me. Since you got Van de koele meren des doods which I started on DYK (we talked about this on 28 June on my talk page) could you check this article and if possibly nominate it for DYK? I would be very grateful. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 03:26, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No kidding. I thought of that the other day--I remember when it happened, and walked by the place when it was still smouldering. Sure, I'll have a look. Drmies (talk) 04:00, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nou SpeakFree, dat is een mooi stuk werk! I'll take care of the nomination, but in the meantime, copy editing must take place. All Dutchism must be removed, starting with the period in the times (replace with semicolon: "6.20 in the morning"-->"6:20"...and Lady, should we go with simple AM and PM throughout? SpeakEasy, I'm calling in outside help: the Lady is fascinated with Dutch culture and an expert copy editor; besides, she can't be as sleepy as I am. More tomorrow. Thanks for writing that article. Drmies (talk) 05:39, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm out of the door today, I can work on it later tonight. But feel free to make changes in the meantime. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 06:26, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think I was already in bed when you wrote that, Drmies. I'll go take a look at the article now. LadyofShalott 15:40, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Lady. Reading the narrative gave me the chills. Drmies (talk) 16:07, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it's scary stuff indeed. I've done some copyediting, and requested some more citations. I am uncertain about the no direct line to the fire department bit. I've edited it as if it meant that physically, it was challenging for the FD to get there, because that's how that part sounded to me, but then later in the article, the parts about the porter running outside to ask people to call makes me think that it had something to do with the telephone lines. That needs to be clarified. Also, the part about the thing for people to jump on: one paragraph says that the street was too narrow for the FD to open it, but the next paragraph talks about people throwing their luggage onto it instead of people jumping out onto it; this seems contradictory and needs clarification. LadyofShalott 16:55, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed the phone thing too, yes. As for the jumping, I don't know--perhaps this has to do with the hotel having a front on het Rokin and a back on the Kalverstraat. I hope SpeakFree can clear this up. Alright, I gotta run. Hey, we're watching Pound Puppies, and it ends with "this was the begin of a long and beautiful friendship," right as I'm typing this: it's a sign, Lady, and you better watch that movie pronto. Drmies (talk) 17:00, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well people can act very irrational when confronted with a calamity. We don't know what went through his mind. We should write what the sources report (and I know that the media make a lot of mistakes but (unfortunately) it's not Wikipedia's role to second guess them, we can only replace their input with better sources). S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 02:37, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The hotel had two sides, one on the Rokin and one on the Kalverstraat. The Kalverstraat is a quite narrow pedestrian only shopping street. That was were they had difficulties deploying the life net and also where the fire engine was hit by debris. See the second image. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 19:45, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have sorted all the cn's using the official FD report from December 1977 (nicely typewritten, makes me feel all nostalgic). I could only not find out who the Polish businessman was who lived there around 1500 (ie 511 years ago). Does it really matter in the context of this article who he was? It would be a nice historical footnote if we would know but it really isn't essential. Thank you both for your efforts. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 01:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Could the article be nominated soon (if you think it's good enough)? DIY articles can't be older than 5 days. It is already 2 days old. I don't know how long it takes before it is approved. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 20:39, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Did you sort out the direct line to the fire department bit that was confusing? I've missed it if so. LadyofShalott 20:43, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have rewritten some parts where the sources differ and I hope it is more clear now. Newspaper articles are often not very specific with details (journalists are generally more interested in people than in technical minutae^{[citation needed]}) so I've given the fire department's report preference. I've also removed the part about the direct line which is common now, but this was 1977 back then we still had rotary dial phones (available in one color only: grey). S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 22:18, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's much less confusing now! LadyofShalott 22:44, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please tell me what you think could be changed further? BTW I also need a good "hook", can't think of anything good. Thank you! S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 23:36, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DYK... that in the 1977 Hotel Polen fire, a lack of fire detection and fighting equipment led to the deaths of 33 people? -- possible hook (I have not counted characters at all) LadyofShalott 01:31, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
SpeakFree, don't worry about the time frame. We'll get it all in on time. Lady, thank you for your help, as usual. SpeakFree, will you allow me to give the Lady co-credit for the DYK? She's been most helpful. Drmies (talk) 02:09, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I gladly support that! Thanks LadyofShalott for all your efforts. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 02:24, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Y'all are generous. I don't know that my contributions merit that though. I just did a bit of gnoming. Cullen actually added to the contents. LadyofShalott 02:49, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well he should share in the credits as well. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 04:02, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BTW can you also help with the article classification? Up till now I've used a simple rule, main prose =< 500 words = stub; main prose > 500 words = start. Especially for WikiProject Netherlands (which is as dead as the dodo, about two months ago I made the first edit on Portal:Netherlands in nearly one year and no-one assesses Netherlands related articles any more, unless they also relate to other fields of interest). S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 02:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. BTW, thanks for helping improve our coverage of the motherland! Did you see Cullen's comments, below, on the artist who did the show Hotel Polen? Drmies (talk) 03:05, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I did. But if her article is to be included in the DYK shouldn't it be more than a stub? I googled her but apart from the already mentioned information there isn't anything useful to make it a proper BLP. She was active in the pre-public internet era (1980s) so information about her is probably only available off-line. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 04:08, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Jumping sail"

The device called a "jumping sail" in the Hotel Polen article is actually called a Life net, at least in American English. That currently redirects to a firefighting equipment glossary, but is probably worthy of an article of its own. I am particularly horrified by the lack of fire extinguishers and other emergency gear. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:21, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Dutch word is springzeil which literally means jumping sail. I was unsure of the word and couldn't find a proper translation. I agree about the horrifying lack of safety materials and emergency exits but this was in 1977 when the standards and protocols were not as high as today. Later in May 1977 the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire happened with an even deadlier death toll and there was a lot wrong there as well. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 19:11, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I had never seen that aerial photograph before. At least it didn't look like this. Drmies (talk) 20:10, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Those parts of Dresden weren't at least completely flattened. There was a morbid joke going the rounds at the time about a Frenchman and a German where the Frenchman said "If you stand on the top of the Eiffel Tower you will see the whole of Paris". The German said "That's nothing if you stand on a chair in Dresden you will see the whole city". S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 02:07, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Small world

Yesterday, I learned of the Hotel Polen fire on your talk page. That motivated me to look into the "jumping sail" which we call a Life net . I started scouring the web for more information about the fire, learned about a photographic art installation by Polish American Jew Ania Bien, who lives in Amsterdam. That art show drew an analogy between that fire and the Holocaust. The show was in San Francisco and Amsterdam. I knew her brother Richard very well. Ania was born in 1946 and Richard in 1948, in Kracow. Their parents were of the small surviving remnant of the Polish Jews. She married a physician and has lived in Amsterdam for decades. Richard was on a spritual quest in India in the 1970s, got very ill, and recuperated in Amsterdam. There, he too decided to become a physician. He settled in the Napa Valley roughly 20 years ago. Our Jewish community is very small, and everyone knows everyone. Richard was a quiet man of great dignity and modesty, a highly respected surgeon. A very thoughtful and kind person. He died two years ago after a valiant struggle with pancreatic cancer. I met his sister twice, once when he was in good health and also when she visited our synagogue after his death. It is a highly interconnected world. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:12, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sure is... your comments highlight both how the Internet has increased the interconnecting strands of the web, and how many strands existed before the Internet. LadyofShalott 19:25, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, Cullen--that is quite a story. Can we connect more, with a double nomination? I'm not sure if Google Books has enough full text available here to create Ania Bien? Drmies (talk) 02:06, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If I'm interpreting this correctly, (?) she's published a book of photos of children. It's having trouble pulling up the listings of libraries that hold the book though, so I can't tell if it's lots or none. LadyofShalott 03:29, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's a book on children in asielzoekercentra (nl:Asielzoekerscentrum, which I've just linked more correctly to Immigration detention rather than the earlier Refugee camp). I am finding some stuff on it. We're close to DYK numbers, so we could combine the two, if SpeakFree is OK with it... Drmies (talk) 03:59, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Is that the more correct link? As far as I know people aren't actually detained in an azc; it's just a place for them to live. Ucucha (talk) 04:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - {ec)You may well be right. I wasn't thinking about legal detention so much as about the physical circumstances and the ghetto-ized setting of those places. Feel free to undo me there, U--and block me if appropriate. ;) Hey, we got some Dutchies together here. Did you know I made a cake today, an old-fashioned pound cake with just a bit of sogginess in the center? Even better than what you get at the HEMA... Let me make a pot of coffee. SpeakEasy, cream and sugar? Drmies (talk) 04:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - There is vreemdelingendetentie for illegal immigrants who are subject to extradition. AZC's are open institutions, the people in them can go where they please. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs)
    - Ja, maar je zou het toch geen "vluchtelingenkamp" noemen...of wel? Drmies (talk) 04:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - I wouldn't, but I think they are actually closer to refugee camps than to detention centers, because (as SpeakFree says) they are open institutions. I was going to say that they aren't actually quite like refugee camps either, but really I don't see much of a difference. If we may trust nl:Kamp Westerbork for example, the Dutch government was actually building an institution called a vluchtelingenkamp at Westerbork to house German Jewish asylum seekers. Ucucha (talk) 04:33, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        A comparison with Center Parcs is more appropriate. As they are allowed to leave the compound when they want. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 04:49, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm OK with it if the article is acceptable under the DYK criteria. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 04:14, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, it will meet those criteria, but you know I haven't even looked at the Lady's hook yet. Let's see. Drmies (talk) 04:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - My gosh, I take a break from editing Wikipedia for a few hours to make some chicken stew out of six chicken backs that had been in our freezer since Passover this past spring, and sit down to eat the stew from folding TV tables while drinking Two Buck Chuck and watching Barack Obama and Warren Buffett interviewed on 60 Minutes with my wife and my younger son. When I lazily pick up my Droid X to check my watchlist, what do I find but a brand spanking new article about Ania Bien? I am astonished, and my heart, previously warmed by the stew, is even warmer now. You people are all really wonderful, as is this project. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:34, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Note my first edit summary there, Cullen. Glad your stew was good; we had some pulled pork that was in the slow cooker all day today. BTW, I disagree on your edit summary "grammar"--you may well think that yours is better (I had it like that earlier), but it's not a matter of grammar, unless your real name is not in fact Cullen! Thanks for beefing up the article, and for that other edit summary--over 90,000 edits and I didn't know that suggestion about big, notable cities being able to stand alone. Speaking of notable: please give my regards to Mrs. Cullen. She'll be pleased to know that our living room looks very comfy now, and she is welcome to bring her knitting and sit in front of the fireplace. You and I will make like polar bears: the pool is about 50 degrees. Drmies (talk) 04:45, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        I am certain that I would enjoy the aroma of the pulled pork but would resist the flavor. I once knew a rabbi who said that we are not allowed to eat pork, but nothing forbids us from enjoying the performances of Hollywood pigs in films like Gordy. Have your children seen it? Mrs. Cullen notices on the calendar that Hanukkah and Christmas overlap this year, and she is determined to bake the best Suikerbrood in the Napa Valley for that occasion. Your suggestions regarding authenticity of recipe, shape and adornment would be appreciated, and she will photograph it in the hopes of improving on the current image in the article. Perhaps UPS might bring some your way as well. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:58, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Well, Ucucha is the expert on what it's supposed to look and taste like, I imagine. I am willing to bet that he will catch a flight home in the next week or two and will come back mid-January, twenty pounds heavier. Have we broached the topic? It is essential to get the nib sugar; I ordered mine from Amazon and it was ridiculously expensive, but necessary (next time I'm trying this). I made it in the bread machine. It was really, really delicious, esp. the little pieces of sugar on the outside, that burned a little bit. I think I used the recipe from the first link, with some modifications. Yes, that photograph looks a bit distasteful, and I think that it may have a light kind of whole wheat in it. Mine didn't look so great, and the cell phone photos didn't either. I'm sure Mrs. Cullen has a much gentler hand. Best, Drmies (talk) 05:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As for the name "Cullen", I have hinted at my real identity so often that I suppose it would do no harm to reveal that it was my grandfather's middle name, and he went by "Cullen" in everyday life. He died the year before I was born. It was also my father's middle name, and is my middle name and my oldest son's middle name. As for what constitutes "grammar", at least I did not spell it "grammer". Is that Dutch? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:07, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hotel Polen and Ania Bien DYK

OK, the DYK nom is up; please see Template:Did you know nominations/Hotel Polen fire. If you have suggestion for a better hook, place 'em there. SpeakFree, one of the hassles of a DYK nom is that you have to review another one; I had the good fortune of running into an easy one. Drmies (talk) 05:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Looks fine to me. I prefer your version but you could always add the words "and the Holocaust" to it. It may attract more attention then. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 11:36, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Lady modified it. Just to stay on the safe side I reviewed another nomination (since this is now double). Drmies (talk) 15:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, Drmies. You have new messages at The ed17's talk page.
Message added 19:00, 12 December 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 19:00, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You were wrong

It wasn't the next edit; it was the one after that! Hehe, I didn't notice your edit summary until just now. The reason I finally saw it? I noticed that, after creating Template:Did you know nominations/The Kingdom of the Netherlands During World War II, you neglected to transclude it on Template talk:Did you know. I was curious if there were others, so I filtered your edits to show the ones in Template space, and I saw, in addition to the above-mentioned edit summary, two other nominations which were similarly untranscluded: Template:Did you know nominations/Hotel Polen fire and Template:Did you know nominations/W.R. van Hoëvell. I've added all three, but I'm afraid you can't always count on my diligence, so please remember to perform this important step; without it, no one is even aware that the nomination exists. I only checked recent nominations, so if there were any older nominations which never appeared, now you may know why. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 03:13, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Shoot, you are totally right--you have told me this before. Thanks so much! I don't think I have anything else laying around. Mandarax, where would I be without you. Man, you can filter edits? What can't you do? Oh, maybe you can help me with this: I accidentally bought a quadrophonic amp (the Sony SQ-100) instead of the regular stereo TA-88. Why don't you come by and see if you can hook it up with the ST-88 tuner? (And isn't that a nice little set-up, with us sitting in the middle listening to some Floyd or something?) Drmies (talk) 03:29, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, the "You were wrong" was only intended to refer to your semi-prophetic edit summary, which was off by one. The transclusion problem shouldn't be a problem for much longer, as a bot is in the works to check, and notify people if they forget.
It seems to me that after I noticed your edits to Led Zepagain, I made a cryptic comment such as "I've seen them many times, although I've never gone to see them". Now I'm not certain whether I ever wrote that, or just thought it. In any case, the explanation is that I often went to see the Pink Floyd tribute band Which One's Pink, and it was often a double bill with Led Zepagain. Wow, Floyd in quadraphonic! Will there be a laser show? MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 04:17, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

YES, and TONS of WEED! Drmies (talk) 05:03, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

*Cough* Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 05:18, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ed, I'm glad you learned something from your grandfather. Off to bed, lad, and leave the weird music to the old folks. You can still make something of your life. Drmies (talk) 05:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pink Floyd is my favorite band. Just saying. Also, it's exam week, sleep is not allowed. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 05:28, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure my Advanced English Grammar students feel the same way--and their exam is in eight hours. Shouldn't you be studying? Good luck, Drmies (talk) 05:33, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm getting there. ;-) Hope you didn't make it too hard! Those kids are going to be tired. I'm sure you see that every year, though. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 05:36, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pls do not change the content

Hi Drmies,

Pls do not change the content of Wire and Wireless India. Its a company page and facts has been reported without getting biased. --Anshul1703 (talk) 04:31, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, thank you. Are you saying you represent the company? And do you know that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and not an advertising avenue? Drmies (talk) 05:00, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apologize

Did not mean to do the last edit. I somehow missed the fact that I had reverted this person yesterday also and it hasn't been 24 hours. Again, an honest mistake. I have stopped reverting and let AIV do its job. Thanks. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 18:15, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I understand. I'm not about to take action on it, but neither am I going to block that editor (I did so yesterday already, I believe). Well, you've been around here long enough to now that it's edit warring even if you're right. Having said that, I'm sure your counterpart is about to run into an indef block, and then we can all get back to work (or lunch, as the case may be). Best, Drmies (talk) 18:17, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nicky Bell

Hello, I've created a page based on the actor Nicky Bell and the site is threatening to delete it as I don't have any sources to back up what I've written please could you help me keep this page open? Many thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carty1984 (talk • contribs) 19:39, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, if you have no sources to back it up you shouldn't put it in there--that's the essence of WP:V. We have strict guidelines: no biographies of living people without references to reliable sources. Sorry, but them's the shakes. There's this, but imdb does not count as a reliable source. I do, however, have one free ticket for you to go see the Patron Saint of Lost Causes in Film and Popular Culture: go ask for help on User:MichaelQSchmidt. Good luck, Drmies (talk) 19:45, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't that be User talk:MichaelQSchmidt? S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 21:17, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sure--thanks. Drmies (talk) 23:57, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the quick reply! Well the funny thing is I am Nicky Bell so surely there can't be a better source than myself to back up my page? Sorry to keep mythering you on this one but I'm pretty dense when it comes to computer stuff! Only created the page on the request of people in the industry! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carty1984 (talk • contribs) 16:04, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, congratulations, and may you have a long and prosperous career. Who knows, you might get to have an affair with Jennifer Anniston! But that you are he makes you the worst possible person to edit the article, and an even worse source (if you pardon my saying so): Wikipedia articles require reliable sources. See WP:RS. As for he being you, PLEASE see Wikipedia:Autobiography--the first sentence is already worth the effort. Think about it this way: Wikipedia is not going to get you a job (or a call from Jen), and if you are notable, it will happen. Did you drop MQS a line? Good luck. Drmies (talk) 16:41, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Legitimate Sockpuppet

How do I register as a legitimate sockpuppet, used for reasons of privacy? I understand that I need to contact a "Checkuser" but am unsure how to do this in a secure manner that would not defeat the purpose of using a sockpuppet in the first place.Quasi Montana (talk) 21:11, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. I have a couple, and I got them approved by emailing ArbCom. There are instructions on WP:Arbitration Committee, I believe. Good luck, Drmies (talk) 00:00, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

McRice update

I had to start a new sections. Technical issues with the iPad. I haven't been to McDonalds to check on the McRice, but I did hit up a Starbucks this morning. Tastes just like home, but more Chinese. All my luggage got Checkrd through to Toronto, so I might have to go shopping, so I have some clean clothes. Also, the Great Firewall of China ain't got nothin on me. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 23:59, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

K, we're all living vicariously through you. Exciting! What does something taste like if it tastes "more Chinese"? Drmies (talk) 00:01, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I never told you there's a McKroket in the motherland. Never had one--I get mine from Kwekkeboom or Van Dobben. Drmies (talk) 00:02, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I was wondering the same thing about "more Chinese". Also, Drm, what's (mc)Kroket? Is that a corruption of croquette, or something else entirely? LadyofShalott 00:13, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - WP:WHAAOE - International_availability_of_McDonald's_products#The_Netherlands. Sounds tasty! SmartSE (talk) 00:42, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Interesting that the so-called "American sauce" doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard of here, except maybe it's akin to tartar sauce. LadyofShalott 00:53, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I love kroket (Indonesian spelling)... I'll see if I can get some pix of McRice and McCongee later. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wow--rice porridge? Crisco, that's Dutch spelling too. Lady, these are among the most delicious things in the world. They also come in the shape of balls--bitterballen--a perfect snack with a beer. Drmies (talk) 02:37, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. Yummy for breakfast. Ooh, bitterballen are nice too... just not as common here. Geez, I'm hungry now. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:42, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, after reading about bitterballen and kroketten, yum, I want some. My mother used to cook ham patties, which were basically a ham version of this and very tasty. LadyofShalott 04:44, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

<--I have the most exciting fusion-cooked talk page on all of Wikipedia. Man, if we could throw a potlatch together... Malleus, what's your favorite food or snack? Drmies (talk) 05:25, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:Rice at McDonald's.jpg

Hungry? Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:27, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Don't you mean potluck? (And wouldn't that be fun!) LadyofShalott 03:35, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't mind a potlatch... if I received the gift of unlimited access to Jstor :-D Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:20, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Having run a hotel/restaurant/bar on Bonaire (part of the Netherlands Antilles when I lived there, just part of the Netherlands now), I have substantial experience with Dutch fast food. I always purchased bitterballen in giant cases that proudly proclaimed "10% VLEES!" on the outside, which means they were 10% meat. They never confessed the nature of the other 90%. The customers were very unhappy if they were fried to a nice golden brown in fresh oil: they had to be cooked until they were a rich chocolaty brown, preferably in oil that had already been used to make another ten or twenty thousand bitterballen. Kroketten weren't bad. We had one Dutch snackbar on the island that did its best to emulate all manner of Dutch fast food for people that got homesick for Holland. I ate part of a meal there once. I remember a dish named something like "Vlees Amerikaanse", which was basically pureed raw steak, but I had no idea why people thought it came from America. I must have that name wrong, because I can't find a trace of it on Google. Perhaps Drmies can remind me of the real name.—Kww(talk) 03:58, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Since you know guitars...

Squier Cyclone has been unreferenced since its creation in 2006, and says it's a "direct reproduction of the Fender Cyclone". Is a merger to the latter title appropriate? LadyofShalott 00:50, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Probably. Squier is just the knock-off brand for Fender. They were initially made in Japan and half the price of the US guitars, back in the 80s, and then they got cheaper and cheaper. I think they're out of Korea or Taiwan--those are the cheap Fenders you see in any pawn shop for $89. Anyway, what that means is that they're basically automatically not notable (a new category!), so please go ahead an merge it, yes. Did you see my new Tahash/Wyandanch? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 01:28, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I hadn't, but now I've looked. It's even worse though, as it's spammy. Thanks for the opinion. I'll go ahead and work on a merger in a bit. LadyofShalott 01:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Do you have any thoughts on a model that attracts us because we want to write about stuff that interests us, but instead traps us into defending stuff that by and large doesn't? Malleus Fatuorum 01:52, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - (talk page stalker) Not sure about a model, but that description certainly sounds like one side of the debate regarding inherent notability for secondary schools. - Sitush (talk) 01:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Yes, plenty, and few of them good. Half the time I don't even understand what I'm doing here--explaining in edit summary after edit summary why a list of cruft is not encyclopedic, or protecting articles I don't give a flying fuck about. Is that what you had in mind? Look at the list of IPs I blocked this afternoon--like I don't have anything better to do. I guess I don't. But you know, every know and then Kelapstick walks by with some crazy idea and then it's fun again. And Hotel Polen fire, dropped off here courtesy of another Dutchie, was very interesting. W.R. van Hoevell and Chinezenmoord taught me a lot about my own history. I could go on... Drmies (talk) 02:03, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - The blocking stuff is one thing, but the truth is that most of the crap here is dealt with by peons like me, and not by the grandees like you. Malleus Fatuorum 02:22, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Really, dear MF? The ongoing cleaning of Tachash? The piecemeal trimming of Wyandanch, Long Island? Ownership of Echoplex? And unlike you, I have to do all of this with grace and delicacy, since otherwise my grand status will be short-lived. Hey, I meant to check on Hamster's page; last time I looked you were taking care of it. I'll go have a look. Please tell him I said hi when you meet him at your weekly cabal in the pub. Drmies (talk) 02:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The follow up to the Chinezenmoord is interesting too... btw, I left you a note above. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:31, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We could always ignore the stuff we don't care about, but that can be hard to do if we care about the project as a whole. Then there's of course the damned if you do, damned if you don't phenomenon that comes into play. LadyofShalott 02:36, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see you've beaten me to the merger. :) LadyofShalott 02:36, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Somewhere in here I meant to say "I did it already"--may have gotten lost in an edit conflict. I don't care if you want to take this to AfD: it's an incredibly non-notable guitar. Not that I would turn one down... Drmies (talk) 02:40, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Fender Cyclone

The article Fender Cyclone has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This does not appear to be a notable instrument.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. LadyofShalott 03:54, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey! Who's templating the regulars?? Drmies (talk) 03:59, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I think some Squier fans are going to be angry at me. I've merged one or two more, trimmed all the other ones, adjusted the Fender guitars template... Those guitar articles, they have a tendency to be worse than awful. Even those wrestling articles have more oversight, they have standards. Drmies (talk) 05:28, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah well. I'm certainly no expert, but in this one pair of articles, we're talking about a guitar and its exact copy. If that's typical, then they certainly needed merging at the least. Even if A is notable, it's hard to imagine many scenarios where cheapo-copy-of-A is independently notable. I wonder if there's any music scholastic literature on these different guitars that could be used to improve the articles of the more notable models. (Of course, this is basically idle wondering, as the subject is not one I'm interested in enough to pursue.) LadyofShalott 03:20, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Well, you should be--it's a great topic, and most of those articles suck. You have a moral obligation, if only to prove MF wrong: it's peon's work. The problem is that the good magazines (Guitar Player and Vintage Guitar) has limited online access. I have a year's worth of the one and about two or three years of the other, but these guitars are older than that. I've worked on the overarching articles (Fender Musical Instruments Corporation, Fender Stratocaster, Gibson Guitar Corporation, Marshall Amplification, etc.) but you always run into the same stuff--on the one hand, the fans who stick in everything they find on the message boards (look at this), and on the other hand the sometimes difficult access to reliable sources. Drmies (talk) 03:36, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - The right sort of library (sorry, that does not include mine) would have physical archives of those magazines. LadyofShalott 03:55, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - And by scholastic literature, I was really wondering about any relevant academic journals. LadyofShalott 03:57, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - That article history looks painful... like you were doing some banging of your head against a wall there too. LadyofShalott 04:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Those walls seem to find me. Yeah, I don't think there are academic journals for this at all. Guitar Player actually is available through our JSTOR, so that's something. I got a weird page number for an article on the most expensive production guitar in the world (Mandarax pointed out this error out) so I went out and bought that book, a pretty comprehensive overview of marks and models. So there are sources; our guitarplaying contributors don't often care for them, though... Drmies (talk) 04:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Well, poot. YGM, but reading your post immediately above, it might not contain anything useful you can't already get. LadyofShalott 04:33, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        You know, poot is a derogatory term in Dutch, the equivalent of "faggot." And I do have mail: "Do you need 100% Finance?? Contact us for your personal loan, debt consolidation loans, business loans,and Home Refinancing loan etc.The Offer Ranges from $5,000.00 Min.To $100,000,000.00 Max. at 2% INTEREST PER ANNUM." Thanks! Drmies (talk) 04:37, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        
        Hehe thanks Lady! Drmies (talk) 04:52, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, I didn't know that. I assure you meant it in the English-language sense of being mildly scatological. (Using it in the sense you mention would be a PA, not to mention kind of stupid. :p ) I'm glad you were able to make use of that article. I'm still annoyed though. LadyofShalott 05:21, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Franklin Library

Banging our collective heads against a brick wall. I've started a talk page section. LadyofShalott 03:44, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pace Malleaus above, we seem to be running into this kind of stuff all the time. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 03:50, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, our fan is a perfect 100%. Drmies (talk) 04:01, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Drmies. You have new messages at LadyofShalott's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Not suiker

	but Beer
	Have a beer on me. Thanks for all the help in trying to expand Chinezenmoord to FA status; fingers crossed! Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:27, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hehe, thanks--the local brew? Yes, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Good luck, and thanks again. I will have a look at the sequel (you linked it above). Drmies (talk) 05:38, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, one of the most common brands in the country. The sequel is already a GA too, and was a lot easier to research! (I had the references already from doing the Chinezenmoord). Alright, I've got an exam soon. Cheers. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:50, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've replied to your email. Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. I have it on my desktop at work, so I'll send it possibly tomorrow, certainly by Friday. Drmies (talk) 03:05, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks a lot. With Christmas coming around I doubt my copyedit request will get picked up all that quickly, so it should give me time to add a bit more (I'm pretty busy IRL at the moment as well... exams and translating a website for Wikimedia Indonesia... argh) Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:56, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Hi Drmies, appreciate the feedback. As the longtime moderator of all the new editors on the Star Pirates discussion, it goes against lots of years of training to let heated conversations flow without trying to cool it. But it's not my forum and thanks for the reminder on that.

I can clearly see the Star Pirates page is likely to be deleted which seems proper from what I've learned as it doesn't have the main stream press/scholarly citations. Thanks to the editors for clarifying that's the reason. Thanks too for giving the SP community the time to get a solid enough page up -- the initial speedy deletion request seemed strange.

It's always good to get insights on other models of managing community websites. The lack of hurdles to be a poster is interesting to watch in action. So too is the goal of just taking stated facts while ignoring the editors reasons for posting. It makes sense in an truly open environment here, but in our forums why one posts something is almost as important as what one posts. New "Keeping" oriented players and I imported the "why" standard, which is incorrect here - again sorry for that. At least those are the lessons I took, as I'll mull this. So thanks for the patience providing those lessons. Be well. StarBaby5 (talk) 17:53, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your note. That discussion got a bit out of hand, and arguments of very different validity came from both sides, that's all I'll say about it. We try to have these conversations based on policy and guidelines, so reasons don't really come into it (and certainly personal reasons don't), but sometimes the debate gets more heated than that. Anyway, I'm sorry if you haven't had the greatest Wiki experience yet--trust me, AfD is the least fun area of the project. Take care, and thanks again for dropping by, Drmies (talk) 19:12, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Yeah, it hasn't been the most enjoyable experience for anyone, I'm guessing. I have learned interesting things so thanks. One more thing is that the heat AfD thread was fairly low grade really. It could be a lot worse. In our forums, we try hard to work with occasionally unbalanced players, including trying to get them to seek help. If we can't, we eventually have to boot them. Often revenge is sworn, and with ease of editing, I can see any page I edit getting a special kind of love from 'em. Supporters of the game would come in to rebut their points and ... chaos. I hope I'm wrong. I guess we'll see. Cheers and thank again. StarBaby5 (talk) 20:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's the internet, right? On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog, so folks can do and say whatever you like, it seems. There's plenty of drama to go around here, that's for sure. Take it easy, Drmies (talk) 02:37, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. Heard the quote but didn't know the background. Thanks. 04:20, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

In case you missed it...

Bgwhite has kindly offered some research assistance. Mid-thread replies can easily be overlooked (I'm sure I've made some that were), so I thought I'd point it out. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:11, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WarriorsPride6565

He has removed multiple words in nearly every single edit, and tons of the articles which he did it in haven't even been fixed I only just reverted this one.Fixkihitter (talk) 07:24, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've warned him. Considering he has a long history of doing so, if he continues I may go straight to level 3 or 4 if he does it again soon. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks to both. Dougweller issued a final warning, which I've endorsed. Drmies (talk) 15:31, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- - They just disappear by themselves, I've asked people this problem before and they said I may have an bug in my browser. Those random words and phrases that keep getting removed are always highlighted in blue, I really don't know how it happened. Maybe I should change to an different account, I know how to change my Ip address as-well, maybe that would help HERE TAKE A LOOK AT THIS: http://i40.tinypic.com/2dlvfr.jpg This is the reason why random words keep disapearing and I have too keep editing over and over again. (This is the zoomed version of wikipedia, that I copy and pasted. See the word "" highligted and underlined in blue?) WarriorsPride6565 (talk) 4:08, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
    - Well, it seems to me that this is an issue you need to address. I've never seen anything like this before--and maybe now you can go back and look at your talk page, where you vehemently denied, in all-caps, that this was happening. Best, Drmies (talk) 01:39, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Templates explanation

Hello Drmies.

I happened to see your question at Mandarax's talkpage. The meaning of the templates is to collect common info that is (or will be) used in several places in order to save data storage and editing effort.

You'll get the idea if you study the content of Category:2008 Summer Olympics water polo templates and Category:2010 Winter Olympics ice hockey templates.

The 2008 volleyball template category is not complete yet.

Regards

HandsomeFella (talk) 20:19, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stay Forever (Delain song)

Greetings! Just in the interest of trying to understand G5, which is a CSD rationale I've actually never applied anywhere, can you explain why it didn't apply in this case? I'm not at all suggesting that you're wrong (in case you take this message that way!), just curious to learn why. Thanks in advance. Best, ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 20:53, 15 December 2011 (UTC) [reply]

Actually, I just read your edit summary on the reversion. Please excuse me for a moment while I slap myself on the head. Obvious. Thanks! ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 20:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ahem, well, what shall I say--it was the first time I ran into one, and I decided to try and make sense out of it. I may be completely wrong, but bear with me and see if this sounds alright. "Banned" editor really can mean only one of two things: written by an editor with a topic ban in the forbidden area, or written by a sock. Written by a "blocked" editor can only mean written by a sock--if they're blocked they can't write. No? Now, if an editor is indef-blocked, like this one, and the matter concerns an article in the area that they got blocked out of, so to speak, that may be different, but here it doesn't concern a song by Memoria (or whatever the name of that band was).

On a side-note, this sounds like the kind of speedy invented to help with the wholesale deletion of tons of articles created by an editor, and fortunately we don't have that here. Thanks for your remark. If I get it wrong, there will be a dozen corrections within the hour. ;) BTW, your name makes me think of the Wu-Tang Clan: "I'm like a sniper, hyper on the ginseng brew..." Drmies (talk) 22:53, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion of God Wears My Underwear

Please look at the history of this page - it has been deleted and restored several times. The deletions were made by over zealous people like you who have little sense of the process by which history is recorded. The film is notable - it has won awards, been the subject of articles in various publications by respected reviewers. It is currently in distribution.

It explores serious issues of sexuality, the Holocaust, and how karma influences the present through reincarnation and past life memories. If you don't find this important - that is your problem. Many others feel otherwise and you need to respect their viewpoints.

And it is NOT blatantly infringing on any copyright. I'm the copyright holder in any case. It has no content that I'm not happy to release under CC with attribution.

Mccainre (talk) 00:29, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You want me to please look at something while you're telling me I'm overzealous and have little sense etc? When I ask Mrs. Drmies for a favor I usually bring flowers or an iPad. Besides, your article was promotional, and Wikipedia wasn't founded for that. As for the copyright, if you are the person owning the website and making the movie and all you probably shouldn't be creating articles for it--see WP:COI. However, a. you can take it up with Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials and b. please refrain from using Ctrl+V. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 01:26, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Mccainre, I looked when I deleted it, and I looked again, just now. There is little evidence that it would pass our notability guidelines, given the paucity of coverage in secondary sources--see this search. The most relevant of those is a brief note in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune announcing that the movie is to be shown at the Minneapolis/St. Paul International Film Festival in 2006 ("Here is a film of such transcendent ineptitude that it is truly so bad it's good."), but usually it takes more than one review to build notability per WP:N. However, should coverage of the film in reliable sources increase, you are welcome to resubmit the article. Drmies (talk) 01:33, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Star Pirates AfD Discussion

I've changed my vote from Delete to Redirect, I humbly ask you consider the option I present and change your vote to reflect.Quasi Montana (talk) 03:41, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, thanks!

Thanks for working on suicide survivor. As you've seen, there's a ton of literature on the topic, so notability is unquestionable. LadyofShalott 03:42, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sure thing. I haven't written on those topics, so I honestly wouldn't know what to do, but I'll be glad to follow anyone's lead. I was looking at some related articles and I'm about to do something drastic to Survivor's guilt. Drmies (talk) 03:59, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll work on it some more, but maybe you could help prod me along. I think I'll have to work on it little bits at a time, and having collaborators would help a lot. It's hard for me to believe we had nothing at all on the topic. LadyofShalott 04:18, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"AfD is the least fun area of the project"

Sir!

How harshly you have assessed one of my favorite playgrounds! Either you imply that I am a masochist or that I have no understanding of what "fun" is. Or perhaps both. Or maybe you think that I ought to have my head examined. Or possibly all three. Maybe you are right, but habits are tough to break, and at least AfD is calorie-free, spreads no communicable diseases, and the Highway Patrol is not known to arrest those who participate. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I must agree. The backlogs like NewPagePatrol are likely the least fun parts of WP.AerobicFox (talk) 04:08, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, I don't even know what NewPagePatrol is--but I have to tell you, I didn't even know that NewKidsOnTheBlock had broken up. Cullen, go write some articles: you're good at it and you see results. Drmies (talk) 04:10, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, for fun, check this out, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Luis González-Mestres, and make sure to click on all the "show" buttons. Then send poor Kevin some flowers. Drmies (talk) 04:11, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Inspired by the Hotel Polen fire, I am working on an article about the "Life net", which involves reading about inspiring rescues as well as gruesome failures. Dealing with plunging human bodies does not always go well, it seems. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:16, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I had forgotten you were doing that--my apologies. Well, I went over to AfD, and I dedicate this edit to you. Feel free to prove me wrong--a keep from you goes a long way. Drmies (talk) 04:18, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Request for fact check

Roman Catholic Vandal

Nellie Bly

The Litigators

Take

Fisting

BLP issue

The Mindbunny example

RFA thank you

Rumours

Categories

Mandarax, she's calling you out

2012 BCS National Championship Game

Bonnie Charlie

99.7.116.70

December 2011

come on man

Screwball23: 3RR in 43 minutes, 4RR in 17 hours

Canvassing and closing

Talkback

Sorry about the revert

A barnstar for you!

A barnstar for you!

Did you know...

Semiprotection

198.161.203.6

Talkback

A kitten for you!

Disambiguation link notification

Re: Selena fans

Help

Pilgrim at Tinker Creek update

You might be interested...

Batavia Massacre (again)

Suiker

More vandalism

A misdirected question

DYK suggestion

"Jumping sail"

Small world

Hotel Polen and Ania Bien DYK

Talkback

You were wrong

Pls do not change the content

Apologize

Nicky Bell

Legitimate Sockpuppet

McRice update

Since you know guitars...

Proposed deletion of Fender Cyclone

Franklin Library

Not suiker

Thanks

In case you missed it...

WarriorsPride6565

Templates explanation

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stay Forever (Delain song)

Deletion of God Wears My Underwear

Star Pirates AfD Discussion

Hey, thanks!

"AfD is the least fun area of the project"