Talk:Barack Obama
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Frequently asked questions To view the response to a question, click the [show] link to the right of the question. Family and religious background Q1: Why isn't Barack Obama's Muslim heritage or education included in this article?
A1: Barack Obama was never a practitioner of Islam. His biological father having been "raised as a Muslim" but being a "confirmed atheist" by the time Obama was born is mentioned in the article. Please see this article on Snopes.com for a fairly in-depth debunking of the myth that Obama is Muslim. Barack Obama did not attend an Islamic or Muslim school while living in Indonesia age 6–10, but Roman Catholic and secular public schools. See [1], [2], [3] The sub-articles Public image of Barack Obama and Barack Obama religion conspiracy theories address this issue. Q2: The article refers to him as African American, but his mother is white and his black father was not an American. Should he be called African American, or something else ("biracial", "mixed", "Kenyan-American", "mulatto", "quadroon", etc.)?
A2: Obama himself and the media identify him, the vast majority of the time, as African American or black. African American is primarily defined as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa", a statement that accurately describes Obama and does not preclude or negate origins in the white populations of America as well. Thus we use the term African American in the introduction, and address the specifics of his parentage in the first headed section of the article. Many individuals who identify as black have varieties of ancestors from many countries who may identify with other racial or ethnic groups. See our article on race for more information on this concept. We could call him the first "biracial" candidate or the first "half black half white" candidate or the first candidate with a parent born in Africa, but Wikipedia is a tertiary source which reports what other reliable sources say, and most of those other sources say "first African American". Readers will learn more detail about his ethnic background in the article body. Q3: Why can't we use his full name outside of the lead? It's his name, isn't it?
A3: The relevant part of the Manual of Style says that outside the lead of an article on a person, that person's conventional name is the only one that's appropriate. (Thus one use of "Richard Milhous Nixon" in the lead of Richard Nixon, "Richard Nixon" thereafter.) Talk page consensus has also established this. Q4: Why is Obama referred to as "Barack Hussein Obama II" in the lead sentence rather than "Barack Hussein Obama, Jr."? Isn't "Jr." more common?
A4: Although "Jr." is typically used when a child shares the name of his or her parent, "II" is considered acceptable, as well. And in Obama's case, the usage on his birth certificate is indeed "II", and is thus the form used at the beginning of this article, per manual of style guidelines on names. Q5: Why don't we cover the claims that Obama is not a United States citizen, his birth certificate was forged, he was not born in Hawaii, he is ineligible to be President, etc?
A5: The Barack Obama article consists of an overview of major issues in the life and times of the subject. The controversy over his eligibility, citizenship, birth certificate etc is currently a fairly minor issue in overall terms, and has had no significant legal or mainstream political impact. It is therefore not currently appropriate for inclusion in an overview article. These claims are covered separately in Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories. Controversies, praise, and criticism Q6: Why isn't there a criticisms/controversies section?
A6: Because a section dedicated to criticisms and controversies is no more appropriate than a section dedicated solely to praise and is an indication of a poorly written article. Criticisms/controversies/praises should be worked into the existing prose of the article, per the Criticism essay. Q7: Why isn't a certain controversy/criticism/praise included in this article?
A7: Wikipedia's Biography of living persons policy says that "[c]riticism and praise of the subject should be represented if it is relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone." Criticism or praise that cannot be reliably sourced cannot be placed in a biography. Also, including everything about Obama in a single article would exceed Wikipedia's article size restrictions. A number of sub-articles have been created and some controversies/criticisms/praises have been summarized here or been left out of this article altogether, but are covered in some detail in the sub-articles. Q8: But this controversy/criticism/praise is all over the news right now! It should be covered in detail in the main article, not buried in a sub-article!
A8: Wikipedia articles should avoid giving undue weight to something just because it is in the news right now. If you feel that the criticism/controversy/praise is not being given enough weight in this article, you can try to start a discussion on the talk page about giving it more. See WP:BRD. Q9: This article needs much more (or much less) criticism/controversy.
A9: Please try to assume good faith. Like all articles on Wikipedia, this article is a work in progress so it is possible for biases to exist at any point in time. If you see a bias that you wish to address, you are more than welcome to start a new discussion, or join in an existing discussion, but please be ready to provide sources to support your viewpoint and try to keep your comments civil. Starting off your discussion by accusing the editors of this article of having a bias is the quickest way to get your comment ignored. Talk and article mechanics Q10: This article is over 275kb long, and the article size guideline says that it should be broken up into sub-articles. Why hasn't this happened?
A10: The restriction mentioned in WP:SIZE is 60kB of readable prose, not the byte count you see when you open the page for editing. As of May 11, 2016, this article had about 10,570 words of readable prose (65 kB according to prosesize tool), only slightly above the guideline. The rest is mainly citations and invisible comments, which do not count towards the limit. Q11: I notice this FAQ mentions starting discussions or joining in on existing discussions a lot. If Wikipedia is supposed to be the encyclopedia anyone can edit, shouldn't I just be bold and fix any biases that I see in the article?
A11: It is true that Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit and no one needs the permission of other editors of this article to make changes to it. But Wikipedia policy is that, "While the consensus process does not require posting to the discussion page, it can be useful and is encouraged." This article attracts editors that have very strong opinions about Obama (positive and negative) and these editors have different opinions about what should and should not be in the article, including differences as to appropriate level of detail. As a result of this it may be helpful, as a way to avoid content disputes, to seek consensus before adding contentious material to or removing it from the article. Q12: The article/talk page has been vandalized! Why hasn't anyone fixed this?
A12: Many editors watch this article, and it is unlikely that vandalism would remain unnoticed for long. It is possible that you are viewing a cached result of the article; If so, try bypassing your cache. Q13: Why are so many discussions closed so quickly?
A13: Swift closure is common for topics that have already been discussed repeatedly, topics pushing fringe theories, and topics that would lead to violations of Wikipedia's policy concerning biographies of living persons, because of their disruptive nature and the unlikelihood that consensus to include the material will arise from the new discussion. In those cases, editors are encouraged to read this FAQ for examples of such common topics. Q14: I added new content to the article, but it was removed!
A14: Double-check that your content addition is not sourced to an opinion blog, editorial, or non-mainstream news source. Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons states, in part, "Material about living persons must be sourced very carefully. Without reliable third-party sources, it may include original research and unverifiable statements, and could lead to libel claims." Sources of information must be of a very high quality for biographies. While this does not result in an outright ban of all blogs and opinion pieces, most of them are regarded as questionable. Inflammatory or potentially libelous content cited to a questionable source will be removed immediately without discussion. Q15: I disagree with the policies and content guidelines that prevent my proposed content from being added to the article.
A15: That's understandable. Wikipedia is a work in progress. If you do not approve of a policy cited in the removal of content, it's possible to change it. Making cogent, logical arguments on the policy's talk page is likely to result in a positive alteration. This is highly encouraged. However, this talk page is not the appropriate place to dispute the wording used in policies and guidelines. If you disagree with the interpretation of a policy or guideline, there is also recourse: Dispute resolution. Using the dispute resolution process prevents edit wars, and is encouraged. Q16: I saw someone start a discussion on a topic raised by a blog/opinion piece, and it was reverted!
A16: Unfortunately, due to its high profile, this talk page sees a lot of attempts to argue for policy- and guideline-violating content – sometimes the same violations many times a day. These are regarded as disruptive, as outlined above. Consensus can change; material previously determined to be unacceptable may become acceptable. But it becomes disruptive and exhausting when single-purpose accounts raise the same subject(s) repeatedly in the apparent hopes of overcoming significant objections by other editors. Editors have reached a consensus for dealing with this behavior:
Other Q17: Why aren't the 2008 and 2012 presidential campaigns covered in more detail?
A17: They are, in sub-articles called Barack Obama 2008 presidential campaign and Barack Obama 2012 presidential campaign. Things that are notable in the context of the presidential campaigns, but are of minimal notability to Barack Obama's overall biography, belong in the sub-articles. Campaign stops, the presidential debates, and the back-and-forth accusations and claims of the campaigns can all be found there. |
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Foreign policy of the Barack Obama administration was copied or moved into Barack Obama with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This page is about a politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. For that reason, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
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This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:
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Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80 81, 82, 83 |
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Filmography
Is there a reason we don't have an article on Obama's filmography? With the release of 'Pitch Perfect 2', I went to see if it had been added to his filmography, and we don't have that article at all. --ID man12 ID (talk) 17:33, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
- AFAIK, cameos aren't usually listed if the person is not already an actor. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 17:39, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
- What about shows on which he's appeared as a guest, rather than cameos? --ID man12 ID (talk) 23:40, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
- Oh, sure. Definitely. And lets be sure not to overlook all his televised press conferences, speeches to the American public, and those seven ratings blockbuster State of the Union Addresses. 2600:1006:B14D:A3C0:B945:D20A:9451:85D (talk) 00:29, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
- Besides (what I assume to be) the sarcastic comment above, is there any consensus on this? --ID man12 ID (talk) 21:33, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
- AFAIKT, his two predecessors don´t have a "filmography" section, that could be a hint of probable consensus (personally I think it´s not suitable for the main article). However, at the bottom of the Obama-article is a template with dozens of WP-Obama articles, including a section called "Public image". There I find Barack Obama in comics, so you could probably create a Barack Obama in Film and TV or something like that, and link it in that template. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:40, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
- Or put something in the "Popular culture" section of Public image of Barack Obama. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:50, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
- I would describe this as "not biographically significant". Generally speaking, it is only worth inclusion if the mainstream media has given such things extensive media coverage. -- Scjessey (talk) 18:58, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
- Besides (what I assume to be) the sarcastic comment above, is there any consensus on this? --ID man12 ID (talk) 21:33, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
- Oh, sure. Definitely. And lets be sure not to overlook all his televised press conferences, speeches to the American public, and those seven ratings blockbuster State of the Union Addresses. 2600:1006:B14D:A3C0:B945:D20A:9451:85D (talk) 00:29, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
- What about shows on which he's appeared as a guest, rather than cameos? --ID man12 ID (talk) 23:40, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
See FAQ #2 |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
He's not an African American president racial-wiseHe's actually the first mixed race president. Are we going with his racial identity instead if his actual races here? If so, state racial identity-wise he's the first black American president, but he's racially the first mixed race president (that is, significantly mixed and not like 1/20 black like a few other presidents may be). If not, hop off of the bandwagon and stop calling his race just black. Black people don't have a white parent and it's disrespectful to his white family to call him black. Obama identifying as black is like disowning in his mother and her side of his family. If you're calling him black based on his phenotype, however, I'd say yes; he looks more black than white, so it should be stated that he is phenotypically black and racial-identity wise black, but ancestry-wise and racially, he's mixed race. I expect better of Wikipedia. We must stick to the facts and not popular opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.39.57 (talk) 22:03, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
Interesting topic proposed in this section, but in my humble opinion, although Blacks often say they are "African-American," doesn't a mother from America and a father from Africa make one African-American in its proper and literal sense? If that is the case, I believe the term is, in fact, best described for the current U.S. President. Conspirasee1 (talk) 02:44, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
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LGBT Paragraph
The second paragraph of the LGBT section has absolutely nothing to do with LGBT rights whatsoever.--Johnny 42 (talk) 23:42, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
- You are absolutely right. Presumably some rearranging of things has occurred and that paragraph somehow got stuck in the wrong place. I'm not exactly sure where it is meant to be. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:50, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
- This is the revision that originally added the headers and likely resulted in this minor paragraph/section mismatch. I have attempted to address the problem (my edit summary should say "Domestic policy", not "policies"). If you think another section is suitable, move the paragraph there. Dustin (talk) 14:50, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
Cuba
So, it's okay to write a section about the Iran nukes - but wrong to write on the historic thaw with Cuba? sounds to me like something with a political motives. I'm going to insert it back right after the re-opening of the embassies later this month. Archway (talk) 16:21, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- That's not very helpful. Please assume good faith. What specific material are you arguing should be included in the article? - Wikidemon (talk) 17:27, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- A small section which summarize the Cuba thaw, similar to the Iran deal one. Archway (talk) 18:49, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- That sounds reasonable, it is a significant event in his presidency that does appear to be his doing. Was anybody opposing it? - Wikidemon (talk) 21:51, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- I was asked to add something there, and so I've done. Pandeist (talk) 21:44, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
- That sounds reasonable, it is a significant event in his presidency that does appear to be his doing. Was anybody opposing it? - Wikidemon (talk) 21:51, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- A small section which summarize the Cuba thaw, similar to the Iran deal one. Archway (talk) 18:49, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2015
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President Obama is the first sitting United States Senator to be elected president since John Fitzgerald Kennedy.
2601:200:C100:52F4:2986:9E4E:888F:D626 (talk) 21:29, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
- Not done: No clear request made. Assumed request appears to be trivia. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 21:46, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Clarification
Barak Obama is not the first African-American president. African-American denotes a group of people who are the ancestors of African slaves brought to the USA as slave laborers. Barak Obama is the first Black American president. He is not African-American, he is Kenyan-American. This needs to be corrected as it is historically incorrect and culturally offensive to the different nationalities that comprise the Black community in America. Yomij (talk) 23:58, 12 July 2015 (UTC)yomij
- Obama is universally regarded as African American in the United States. You can open up the FAQ at the top of this page and take a look at Q2 regarding this issue. - Wikidemon (talk) 00:02, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
Iran Nuclear talks
I have substantially reworded the section on the Iran nuclear talks. Noting recentism, much of the previous content was, I felt, information that would not be particularly relevant in 10 years time. I tried to write it in a style that would make more sense in 10 years taking into account the unfolding events. I would like to acknowledge that contributions of the editors that I deleted. Thank you. Mozzie (talk) 15:58, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
- I have added three references, but these are breaking news pieces. I hope they are replaced at some stage by more thorough analysis with will surely be carried out in the near future Mozzie (talk) 16:19, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
First president in prison
I think that it is an important and remarkable fact. My suggestion for the main article: Obama is the first sitting president in a prison. Ref. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/17/us/obama-el-reno-oklahoma-prison.html?_r=0 Probably add also a picture from NYT: http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/07/17/us/17OBAMAWEBSUB/17OBAMAWEBSUB-superJumbo-v3.jpg .91.83.4.106 (talk) 23:13, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
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