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June 24

Insult "buckwheat"

One of the better remembered dialogues from The Hunt for Red October (film) is

Bill Steiner: "Hey I think someone just shot a torpedo at us!"

Capt. Bart Mancuso: "No shit, Buckwheat, now get the hell out of here!"

Apparently Mancuso uses the term "buckwheat" in the meaning of "smartass" or similar. But I have not found this usage as an insult anywhere else?! Where does it originate from? --KnightMove (talk) 12:23, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Billie Thomas... -- AnonMoos (talk) 14:48, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For those in a hurry, from that linked article: "The character of Buckwheat in later years became synonymous with the derogatory "pickaninny" stereotype".

Unaware of the racial context? That boy's got a serious gap in his education. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:08, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Was he actually trying to say the guy was cluelessly stating the obvious? "Huckleberry" or "Rube" would have been a good alternative. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:10, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, but I think the standard would be "No shit, Sherlock!", for the alliteration, if nothing else. Ha - it's got its own entry on Wiktionary! Matt Deres (talk) 17:26, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the info. But now I wonder even more what the character Mancuso wants to express with applying this term to a White adult man. --KnightMove (talk) 18:07, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That he isn't very smart. I would have used Captain Obvious, as it fits the nautical situation best. SinisterLefty (talk) 19:26, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's the first level of connotation, but it's a bit of a broken metaphor. Minus the racial stereotype, it doesn't really mean that much. Matt Deres (talk) 19:55, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is possible that the use of "Buckwheat" wasn't in reference to the original Little Rascals character but the Eddie Murphy character on Saturday Night Live. Eddie Murphy created his own version of Buckwheat on SNL. That character was often confused by the obvious and, when he realized what was happening, he would say "Otay." That was popular from the early to mid 80's. Hunt For Red October was developed in the late 80's. It wasn't long before nobody really remembered or referenced the Eddie Murphy character. So, currently displaced by 30 years, I can see how the reference would be very forgettable. 12.207.168.3 (talk) 11:39, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but both versions of Buckwheat presented him as a slow black kid, so not much difference in meaning there. SinisterLefty (talk) 12:47, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Don't Bogard...origin

There is a phrase which I believe to be common and to be related to the actor Humphrey Bogard and which reads along the lines of "Don't Bogard that steak." or "Don't Bogard those drinks." meaning that one should share rather than hoard. What is the origin of this phrase please? Is it to do with Humphrey as suspected and if so how and why? Any further information would be appreciated. Thanks Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 13:57, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard it derives from Humphrey Bogart smoking his cigarettes to the hilt. --KnightMove (talk) 14:27, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Anton, you'll find it easier to search for stuff if you bother to spell it correctly: bogart. Matt Deres (talk) 15:21, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

EO says the same thing. It has to do with monopolizing something, specifically a joint.[1] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:06, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As famously referenced in the song Don't Bogart Me by The Fraternity of Man, featured on the soundtrack of Easy Rider: "Don't Bogart that joint, my friend. Pass it over to me." {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.177.55 (talk) 00:21, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Translation

Please, what does this advert say? https://www.google.com/maps/place/Vorgashor,+Komi+Republic,+Russia,+169933/@67.588249,63.811028,3a,81.1y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipNhJsnz7hHKkLqzs7CzW0_jYJGK3Y2otlSzEZYh!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNhJsnz7hHKkLqzs7CzW0_jYJGK3Y2otlSzEZYh%3Dw203-h134-k-no!7i1024!8i680!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x4487a06d67e7d2f1:0xab8d791f28340b52!2sYurshor,+Komi+Republic,+Russia,+169915!3b1!8m2!3d67.610278!4d64.0019439!3m4!1s0x44879e3ecc402fe5:0xaf2526183ee0dcf9!8m2!3d67.5882212!4d63.810997 Thanks Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 15:19, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You mean:

Люди твои Россия

Люди твои Воркута?

It says:

'Your people, Russia

Your people, Vorkuta',

However, for context or explanation (or confirmation/specification), maybe you rather wait for natives. --Galtzaile (talk) 15:46, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lord and Word rhyme (or close rhyme) in some dialect or historical dialect?

In my wife's LDS Hymnal, there are at least three hymns that rhyme (in situations where the other verses clearly have rhyming words) the words "Lord" and "Word". In my Dialect (Mid Atlantic USA), they aren't rhyming words to me at all. "Lord" rhymes with "poured" and "Word" with "bird". Is there some other dialect of English (or historical dialect) where they are at least somewhat closer to rhyming? (I'd have to go back and research for the specific hymns, but I'm pretty sure that there are at least three).Naraht (talk) 21:19, 24 June 2019 (UTC) Found at least three:1) With All the Power of Heart and Tongue, 2) From All That Dwell below the Skies, 3) Sweet Is the Work[reply]

The words may have rhymed in some cases during at least part of the Middle English period (as far as I can tell), but I would doubt that any significant relevant dialect existed in the times and places most relevant to Mormonism (i.e. the United States from the mid-19th century to the present). It's probably just one of the "eye rhymes" popular during the Victorian period (e.g. "wind" (noun) and "mind")... AnonMoos (talk) 23:06, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Eye rhyme", yes. "Lord" doesn't audibly rhyme with "word", but to this American it doesn't rhyme with "poured" either. Lord rhymes with gourd or gored, while poured rhymes with Ford. However, in old songs (recordings from a century ago) they audibly rhymed "wind" (noun) with "mind". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:08, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

[Edit Conflict] One also finds (or found half a century ago) a fair few of these in the Methodist Hymn-Book, many of whose lyrics were written in the late 18th as well as in the 19th century. (Though not from a practising Christian family, I attended a Methodist school for seven years.)

I suspect in some instances the writers were employing older pronunciations that though superceded would still have been remembered or known at the time of writing, perhaps from their preservation in works by writers like William Shakespeare and John Milton. In the former's As You Like It the song 'Blow, blow, thou winter wind' continues with 'Thou art not so unkind', and I have heard performances rhyming 'wind' with (the modern) 'kind'.

The same pronunciation survives in the archaic verb 'wind' in the sense of 'blow' as in 'winding a horn, bugle etc.' which like the noun derives from the prehistoric German noun *windaz, itself stemming from PIE *went-. ('Wind' in the sense of 'wrap' or 'meander', though also rhyming, comes instead from prehistoric German *windan.)

As for 'Lord' and 'word', I think these are still close to rhymes in some (fast vanishing) West-Country English dialects, so I would not rule out a particular mid-19th century Mormon hymn writer speaking (and hence writing) thus, since in that period immigration from the British Isles was still ongoing, and 'American' dialects and accents 170 years ago were not necessarily what they are now. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.177.55 (talk) 01:17, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hymns (and national anthems) are full of bad rhymes that can't ever have had the same pronunciation; Hark the Herald Angels Sing (1739) hopes to get away with "come" and "womb", while God Save the Queen (1745 or previous) tries to rhyme "cause" and "voice". A more recent example is God Defend New Zealand (1877) which rhymes "star", "war" and "afar". Not even Kiwis talk like that. Alansplodge (talk) 17:26, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Y'all never been in a choir? The words that "rhyme" (well or poorly) typically come at the end. The syllables at the end are held longer. There are certain vowels you don't want to hold too long because they're grating to the ear. The choir director will tell you to pronounce them differently.

Listen to a practiced choir vs the congregation singing from the hymnal, and the rhymes will sound right vs wrong.

That is, sometimes. What you're asking about is really two separate issues, one of which is that poets and songwriters were by&large (let's be frank) pretty shitty back then. Cf the forced elision, unlikely in common speech, indicated by apostrophes where they shouldn't be, unseen outside of hymnals, like where "pow'r" rhymes with "far." Temerarius (talk) 12:58, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

дворовые песни

Prompted by this thread (permanent link) or this one (dynamic link): What does "дворовые песни" (or "дворо́вая песня" in the singular) mean, how would you translate it? "песня" obviously means "song", it is "дворовый" I'm interested in. Here are Wiktionary's translations, but none of them quite clarify, to me, what kind of songs "дворовые песни" are. Thank you in advance! ---Sluzzelin talk 21:48, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Found a source here that discusses the phenomenon (p102) and translates it as "courtyard folk songs", which seems reasonable. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 23:43, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot, filelakeshoe! ---Sluzzelin talk 22:06, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

to me as L1 "дворовый" has somewhat declasse associations over and above the literal meaning of "of or pertaining to the courtyard." for example, дворовые люди - serfs, дворовый бокс - backyard boxing, дворовый футбол -street football, etc. There's also nostalgia, as among many people's earliest childhood memories is playing ball with other kids in the двор or plunking the guitar with one's school buddies. So there's something both illicit and familiar. Picture a busy Italian neighborhood - that plus socialist pre-fab architecture. I wouldn't btw call the song that is the subject of the above thread, дворовая, rather, it's all-out, bold and self-conscious blatnyak (but maybe the distinction exists only in my head) Aecho6Ee (talk) 17:36, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that enlightening response, Aecho6Ee. I wasn't aware of the blatnyak article! ---Sluzzelin talk 19:38, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

June 25

Bear/Abide/Stand

Hello, I was wondering what are the differences between to abide, to bear and to stand. I assume in the negative they mean the same. But in the positive they don’t. I’d appreciate any help. Thanks! Miss Bono^{[hello, hello!]} 12:03, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

They are similar in usage, but have different meaning in the use of "I cannot X this." Abide: Allow it to exist. Bear: Suffer through it. Stand: Support it. In use, they all mean that you don't support whatever it is. You can use whichever term you like the most, but if you want to be very exact, you use abide if it doesn't truly affect you. You use bear if it does affect you. You use stand if it is something you are expected to support. 12.207.168.3 (talk) 12:11, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In my own judgement (which may or may not be representative of many speakers of L1 English):

(1) "I can't abide/bear/stand the racket from upstairs."

(2) "Can you bear/stand/^?abide the racket from upstairs."

(3) *"I can abide/bear/stand the sound of the radio from upstairs."

(The asterisk means "ungramatical". A question mark means "dubious".)

If sentence (2) were clearly grammatical with abide, I'd say: Simple, each of these three verbs is a negative polarity item (NPI). However, it sounds odd. My first guess is that "can't abide" is more fossilized an idiom than "can't bear" and "can't stand" are. (As it is, in my English at least, "can't" in (1) can't be replaced by "don't".)

As an NPI, one of these verbs can't be used in a positive declarative ~~sentence~~ clause in this sense (or anyway can't without sounding archaic). It can of course be used in other senses:

(4) "I'll abide by the judgement."

(5) "The columns bore all the weight."

(6) "The decision still stands."

I presume that Wiktionary and the like will explain. -- Hoary (talk) 12:24, 25 June 2019 (UTC) amended 12:49, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Could you give an example of the usage of abide? I am not a native speaker, and I hadn’t seen that word until very recently. Thanks. Miss Bono^{[hello, hello!]}

In US English, "bear" and "stand" are common, but "abide" is less so. I'd only use it in a formal context, like a written report. SinisterLefty (talk) 12:43, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've already given you one; but if you're asking about "can't abide" versus "can't stand/bear", then I'd say that to me it merely sounds old-fashioned. However, see Google ngram viewer. -- Hoary (talk) 12:55, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To abide originally meant more like to wait or to remain,[2] as with the hymn, "Abide with Me". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:12, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I can't put up with this sort of thing. DuncanHill (talk) 15:22, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Or even tolerate it https://www.spellzone.com/dictionary/tolerate -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:46, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - The King James Bible has "But who may abide the day of His coming" (Malachi 3:2), while most modern translations go for "But who can endure the day of his coming?". Alansplodge (talk) 17:09, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

US English native: #3 above is a bit iffy. Those terms can be grammatical in the positive, it seems to me. "How is the weather there? Hot but bearable". "My commute is difficult but I can stand it". I don't know about "abide". "Stand" seems like an idiomatic synonym of tolerate. Bear (as in bear a burden, also used in terms like "ball bearing") has a different origin but ends up meaning about the same. 173.228.123.207 (talk) 04:55, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For British English, at least, try the Oxford Dictionaries definitions. As British English is not prescribed or formally defined, these reflect usage abide(2), bear(3), stand(4.1) Bazza (talk) 09:12, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the UK (or at least here in London), "cannot abide" is sometimes heard, but any other use is distinctly archaic. Alansplodge (talk) 19:49, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In my BrEng experience the commonest use of "abide" is in the form "If there's one thing I can't abide it's x". For usage of some of the others - There are many things I can stand (but not like), and others I can just about bear, but I cannot put up with those horrible American commas all over Wikipedia. DuncanHill (talk) 09:07, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

June 26

Initials as 1st name?

I stumbled upon the name of USA U16 Women's basketball player KK Bransford. In her bio it turns out sha has a brother named BJ.

Isn't this.... weird? Is it a new habit? Anything stands behind the initials?

(Thjere's A.E. Pessimal in Pretchet's books.... but that's a joke).

אילן שמעוני (talk) 12:25, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's a very common practice in the U.S. (less so elsewhere). The initials may stand for two discrete first names(e.g. J.J. Abrams), or for a first name and or a nickname (e.g. B.J. Upton) or nothing beyond the letters themselves, constituting a legal name in and by themselves (e.g. U.L. Washington). The practice is quite ancient, as I've seen some 19th century folk who are usually referred only by two initials. Xuxl (talk) 12:52, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This style used to be quite prevalent in UK academic writing. Famous UK authors are A.E. Housman and C.S. Lewis... AnonMoos (talk) 13:00, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And for more serious writers, like J. R. Hartley, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:27, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

W. C. Fields and J. C. Penney come to mind. Johnny Cash's birth name was actually J.R. Cash. In more recent times, there's O. J. Simpson, B. J. Surhoff and C. C. Sabathia. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:02, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

T. S. Eliot, of course. A. L. Kennedy. --Viennese Waltz 13:10, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

H. B. Warner is another one. The Warner part was a stage name, but the initials were genuine. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:12, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

J. K. Rowling and P. L. Travers are two more. Adding one more initial allows for J. R. R. Tolkien All three are authors. MarnetteD|Talk 13:56, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But all these examples have names behind the initials? CS Lewis stands for Clive Staples Lewis. JK Rowling has Joanne Rowling as base, with the K added as pseudonym. Put aside names that are pseudonym. We talk about (as far as I understand) official birth name. Is that common in the US too? I am quite sure that it's not accepted in the UK, or else Pratchett wouldn't make a fuss about it in his book. Commander Vimes is shocked when he finds that A.E. Pessimal is the whole name... "You mean you were INITIALED?!" was his response (or something along this line). אילן שמעוני (talk) 17:07, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Being known by your initials (J. R. R. was John Ronald Reuel Tolkien) is somewhat different to having initials instead of a forename, which I believe is what the OP is driving at. KK Bransford's forename is actually KK as far as I can tell, it doesn't stand for anything. Alansplodge (talk) 17:01, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's right. אילן שמעוני (talk) 17:08, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so at least Johnny Cash counts. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:03, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fictional character, but, T.S. Garp. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 19:26, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to U.L. Washington and KK Bransford, mentioned above, another example of initials-as-legal-given-name from the world of U.S. sports is K. C. Jones. Deor (talk) 19:47, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

While actress CCH Pounder does have names behind those initials, she only uses the initials professionally. SinisterLefty (talk) 19:53, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I thought of her too, larboard-portside! Two special cases are Georges Prosper Remi and Romain de Tirtoff who went by Hergé and Erté, from the French pronunciation of their initials, sort of, R.G. and R.T. (and I realise this isn't quite what אילן שמעוני asked, else we could include artists such as JB as well. I still think they're cool examples :-)</drift> ---Sluzzelin talk 23:00, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For years after 1963 I wondered what police officer J. D. Tippit's full name was, until I learned that was his full name. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:29, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if he was named after JD Rockefeller, who had names behind those initials, but was often referred to by those initials. SinisterLefty (talk) 13:15, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Obscure word

Recently on the ref. desks, a derogatory word (meaning, among other things, "idiot") was used to describe the present occupant of the White House. Like a [forgotten word], I neglected to write it down. It was something like "motoid". Ring any bells? Clarityfiend (talk) 19:25, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Matoid.[3] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:43, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe something to do with Italian mattoide meaning an overexcited lunatic? 46.114.33.62 (talk) 16:02, 27 June 2019 (UTC) Marco Pagliero Berlin[reply]

Thanks. (Spelled "mattoid".) Clarityfiend (talk) 20:01, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

June 27

Latvian language question

I saw a sign at a bus stop in Riga. It said:

Esiet uzmanīgi! Atskanot durvju aizvēršanas signālam, lūdzu, neiekāpiet vai neizkāpiet no transporta.

(I had to resort to the Linux Character map tool quite a lot to get those funny accents in place.)

What does this mean? JIP | Talk 00:01, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It means: "Be careful! When you hear the door closing signal, please do not step off or get off the road" Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 08:23, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) Google Translate, freely available, is always worth a go: "Be careful! When you call the door closing signal, please do not step off or get off the road." The translation's clear, if not entirely well-worded. Bazza (talk) 08:30, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Jm Frühling"?

I saw an old sheet of musical notes in a museum in Riga. It was in both Latvian and German. I don't understand Latvian but I do understand German. The title said "Jm Frühling". Yes, "jm" instead of "im". I have a picture to prove it. Was this some kind of typo or can it really be spelled this way? JIP | Talk 00:10, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

U and V were pretty much the same letter until the 17th century, as were I and J (J was originally what typographers call a "swash glyph" variant of I). As late as the 19th century, I and J were sometimes treated as the same letter (though somewhat archaic by then). See File:Sampler by Elizabeth Laidman, 1760.jpg... AnonMoos (talk) 02:43, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To this day (or at least until the later 20th Century) you could occasionally see it on the covers of books titled "Illustrierte Geschichte des/der ..." (Illustrated history of), because the "I" next to the double "ll" might be less distinguishable when you're using sans-serif. See, for example Jllustrierte Geschichte der Seefahrt or Jllustrierte Geschichte des zweiten Weltkrieges. It does look odd though, at least to my eyes. ---Sluzzelin talk 08:43, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Is that an exclusively German phenomenon, then? I've never seen it on the covers of English books. --Viennese Waltz 08:48, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

J says more. Bazza (talk) 08:57, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't find much on this specific topic there, but de:J has more. ---Sluzzelin talk 23:04, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In some older books that showed numbers in lower-case Roman numerals, whether as part of the main text or as page numbers of introductory or supplementary material, the last "i" of such numbers with at least two "i's" was sometimes rendered as "j" for clarity, so for example 8 = viii would be printed as viij. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.177.55 (talk) 11:13, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discussed in this previous RefDesk thread. Alansplodge (talk) 18:52, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The I/J distinction in Germany is dramatically less dimorphic than in English-speaking places. Not in printed text, with the death of blackletter/gutenbergisch/whatever they're calling it now, but it remains so in handwritten script--be it in grocers' signs or school notebooks, even among young people. Is look like Js. is don't look like js, though. You should see how they write their 1s and zs! Temerarius (talk) 13:13, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In, at least, 18th century Spanish, Y was used as initial or capital I. Hence spellings like Ysabel or Yglesia. And in Italian, j is used instead of final i, as in Pamphilj. --Error (talk) 00:32, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

June 28

Chakhar Mongolian

Is there any set of rules for determining which Chakhar words will have i instead of ə? déhanchements (talk) 19:19, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

June 29

Do they say wicked storm everywhere in Red Sox territory or only some parts?

Wicked stahm coming! Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:19, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't that be a-comin' ? SinisterLefty (talk) 14:09, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In New England English, "wicked" is purely adverbial. Using it as an adjective is usually done by non natives who don't understand how to use it properly when goofing on the dialect. An actual New Englander would say something like "There's a wicked bad storm coming" so the answer is, outside of Internet memes and comedians goofing on the dialect, no one would say "A wicked storms coming". The word wicked in this context is used as a synonym for "very", and you'd never say "a very storm is coming". --Jayron 32 16:52, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Two questions on NE English is 'tall drink of water' for a tall (man) also just New England and is 'package store' (shortened to 'packy') for liquor store? A lifetime ago I learned those usages from a Portsmouth working class youngster (and wicked, too, although wicked I most associate in the use of a young woman of Braintree). Alanscottwalker (talk) 16:59, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note that the term "package store" itself is not used everywhere. It's often called a "liquor store". So, the question about how it is shortened doesn't apply. SinisterLefty (talk) 17:40, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm? I was not asking how it was shortened, I was parenthetically stating how it is shortened, (although I suppose 'packie' is the spelling). At any rate, are you saying both 'package store' and 'packie' are NEEisms, or that package store is not just a NEEism, but packie is, or are you saying something else? Alanscottwalker (talk) 18:05, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if "package store" is used anywhere outside NE. To me, it sounds like a place like Kinko's where you go to buy boxes and tape to wrap and mail your packages. SinisterLefty (talk) 18:54, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the Midwest, I used to see the term "package liquors" in reference to a liquor store. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:21, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Packie" meaning "liquor store" a pure New Englandism, not sure on the other one. --Jayron 32 17:06, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

At the very least, "long drink of water" was common in the Midwest. Probably old-fashioned now. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:26, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Here in NC, "long (or tall) drink of water" would be old fashioned but understandable. A "package store" here sells mostly beer and tobacco (with snacks and soft drinks). Liquor sales are more regulated, meaning most places can't sell it.--Khajidha (talk) 00:09, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In Britain we have "long streak of piss" for a long thin person. DuncanHill (talk) 19:22, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You will be thrilled to know that Australia has "long streak of cocky's shit", apparently. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:47, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not only thrilled, but delighted. We have a lot to thank our Colonial Cousins for. DuncanHill (talk) 20:36, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

June 30

"I'll kill a brick"

What does this mean? It appears in the title of the 1971 song "I'll Kill a Brick (About My Man)" by Hot Sauce featuring Rhonda Washington on Volt: [4]. Presumably it's a US English phrase, as I have never seen or heard it in the UK. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:30, 30 June 2019 (UTC) (There are a couple of videos for the song on YouTube, both of which have UMG copyright statements, but I wont link to them as the status of these statements is currently under discussion). [reply]

Here's one theory.[5] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:17, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I had not seen that. It's hard to tell the geographical location of those contributors. And of course, it's all just personal opinion. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In all my years of living in the US Martinevans123 I've never heard the term. It might be regional to some part of the country that I haven't visited though. I find it an interesting coincidence that the song was released a few months before the album that does mention bricks :-) That works backstory is interesting as well. MarnetteD|Talk 18:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hey you. You can't suddenly hijack my early 1970s Memphis soul with early 1970s one-legged British prog rock, you know! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:40, 1 July 2019 (UTC) [reply]

List of current United States Senators

We have this Wikipedia article: List of current United States Senators. My question: for the article title, is the "S" of the word "Senators" supposed to be capitalized? Or should it be lower-case "s"? And what if there were an article titled "List of current United States Representatives"? What about the "R" in "Representatives"? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:39, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I was hoping United States Senate would spell it out, but it doesn't seem to. It capitalizes the words Senate and Senator pretty uniformly and I would just assume it's done so because they are titles (meaning the answer to your question would be "Yes"), but the article I linked also chooses to not capitalize president and vice-president, so now I am not so sure. :) Sorry! Matt Deres (talk) 23:05, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

See MOS:JOBTITLES. Short answer: no, it should not be capitalized. — Kpalion^(talk) 12:49, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Right, so it depends on how it is used: "Like most senators, Senator Cheatem is an incumbent." SinisterLefty (talk) 13:11, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but I am referring to an article title (as opposed to a complete sentence, which contains context). Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:21, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to move the article from List of current United States Senators (upper-case "S") to List of current United States senators (lower-case "s"). Wikipedia would not allow the change to go through. Does anyone know why? And how to correct that? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:26, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia likely has a bug and doesn't see that as a change. You will either need to change it to an intermediate name ("List of current US senators" ?), then change it to the name you want (which might run afoul of some limit on changing an article name too many times) or you could first create an article with the correct name, copy over the content, and change the article under the old name to a redirect. Unfortunately, this would leave the history with the old article, but at least it's not lost forever. SinisterLefty (talk) 16:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Or ask an admin to do it for you. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:11, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

July 1

German for Anne?

Perhaps a bit confusingly, the writers of Six (musical) named their queen (4) Anna of Cleaves, instead of Anne of Cleves. Common in parts of Britain? German? or . . .? Alanscottwalker (talk) 17:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Our article starts "Anne of Cleves (German: Anna von Kleve)". Rmhermen (talk) 17:45, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

However "Cleaves" seems to be just plain wrong; the English surname Cleaves comes from the Old English for "cliff". [6]. Alansplodge (talk) 19:33, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's the OP's typo; the musical uses Cleves. [7] Henry ^Flower 20:19, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But, to be fair, in Anne's day the idea that a particular spelling could be "just plain wrong" had not exactly been established. No two of the surviving signatures of William Shakespeare are spelled the same way. --76.69.117.113 (talk) 21:16, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]