The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bugs and feature requests should be made at the BugZilla since there is no guarantee developers will read this page. Problems with user scripts should not be reported here, but rather to their developers (unless the bug is exigent).
This tends to solve most issues, including improper display of images, user-preferences not loading, and old versions of pages being shown.
No, we will not use JavaScript to set focus on the search box.
This would interfere with usability, accessibility, keyboard navigation and standard forms. See task 3864. There is an accesskey property on it (default to accesskey="f" in English). Logged-in users can enable the "Focus the cursor in the search bar on loading the Main Page" gadget in their preferences.
No, we will not add a spell-checker, or spell-checking bot.
You can use a web browser such as Firefox, which has a spell checker.
If you changed to another skin and cannot change back, use this link.
Alternatively, you can press Tab until the "Save" button is highlighted, and press Enter. Using Mozilla Firefox also seems to solve the problem.
If an image thumbnail is not showing, try purging its image description page.
If the image is from Wikimedia Commons, you might have to purge there too. If it doesn't work, try again before doing anything else. Some ad blockers, proxies, or firewalls block URLs containing /ad/ or ending in common executable suffixes. This can cause some images or articles to not appear.
If someone knows of a workaround for this issue, I'd like to know what it is too. I couldn't find anything for it in Bugzilla either.
I have some nested collapsible tables coded up roughly as follows:
{|class="collapsible collapsed"
!Outer table header row
|-
| interesting information
|-
|
{|class="collapsible collapsed"
!Inner table header row
|-
| more detailed interesting information
|-
|
{|class="collapsible collapsed"
! Inner inner table header row
|-
| Even more detailed information that's not particularly interesting
|}
|}
|}
Here's what it looks like:
Outer table header row
interesting information
Inner table header row
more detailed interesting information
Inner inner table header row
Even more detailed information that's not particularly interesting
All of them should be collapsed by default. But when you expand the outer table, all the inner tables expand as well -- but their "show" links say "show". The Javascript apparently doesn't know they've expanded. When you click on "show" it changes to "hide", but doesn't do anything else. After that, the link works normally.
Looks like you aren't using it in the way it was intended. Looks like it doesn't support nesting. I'll take a look around and get you an answer and the correct code in a bit. —Andrew HampeTalk 23:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just so you're aware then, one requirement is to be able to specify the initial state, which is why I'm using the table instead of NavFrame, etc. TCC(talk)(contribs) 01:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You can hide the nested tables by putting 3 NavFrames inside one collapsible table, e.g. {{Calculus footer}}. Even if you're nesting only 2 or less, you can add an empty NavFrame div to make them hidden. I don't know of a way to make the nested NavFrames expand by default though, unless you're nesting 2 or less. –Pomte 18:55, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Master-Slave language in db lock message
I was attempting to edit a page when I received a "Database locked" error message ("The database has been automatically locked while the slave database servers catch up to the master" [controlled by MediaWiki:Readonly lag]). I know there has been a bit of controversy surrounding those terms, and I think it would be best for us to at least interwiki link the words "master" and "slave", not only as a political correct approach, but also to be less cryptic and have the error message more understandable/useful. Thoughts? -Mysekurity 21:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Due to the frequency that I have recently been seeing those messages, I can see why it would be a good idea. I understand them but I am a programmer. I know many people who would have no idea what that really meant and would think something was broken. Perhaps a clarified version might be a good idea if possible. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 21:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I like EVula's idea: let's wikilink it. It avoids changing the wording while adding meaning. Nihiltres(t.l) 21:25, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think EVula has the right idea. Until(1 == 2) 21:37, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I was about to edit the page myself, but then realized it'd probably be better to check here first. I was going to wikilink both slave and master to master-slave (computers), but wondered if there was something more appropriate. If someone gives me the go-ahead, I'll edit it now. -Mysekurity 22:12, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
[ec]Since everyone seems to agree that I'm awesome for making the suggestion (mmm, ego), I made the change to MediaWiki:Readonly lag. I apparently created the page, though, so I'm not sure if it will override stuff or not. I'm actually kind of confused by it... EVula// talk // ☯ // 22:13, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That should be fine, the MediaWiki namespace is for deviations from the default system messages.--Patrick 23:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
/me sings EVula theme song GracenotesT§ 22:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Now all we have to do is lock up the database to test it. Anyone feel like deleting the sandbox? -Mysekurity 22:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
EVula, from what I understand of the MediaWiki namespace, the creation oddity is because a nonexistent MediaWiki page has content: the MediaWiki default message (which is null by default, for some). Creating the page overrides the default with the content of the page. As for deleting the sandbox... ouch that would lag. We'll have to wait and see, I don't think anyone really wants to try to lock up the servers. Nihiltres(t.l) 00:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just wait until a few users are renamed. I'm pretty sure someone has tried to delete the sandbox before, causing about 15 minutes of lag, so please don't do that. You will get several developers vying for your head. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 01:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I guess facetiousness doesn't come across over the interweb. I've never understood why they don't just lock up deleted pages that default to something else (Commons images on a project, e.g.). Is there a technical reason they can't stop someone from uploading naughty pictures over one from the Commons, or is it just policy? -Mysekurity 07:49, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't think such a feature (autoprotection of images that already exist on Commons) exists, but it shouldn't really be too hard to implement. File a bug? As for MediaWiki: pages, those are always fully protected (and cannot be unprotected) anyway. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 10:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Per m:Help:User rights it seems "upload", "reupload" (overwrite), "reupload-shared" (overwrite on Commons?) are separate rights, so it should be technically easy, if not politically. --Splarka (rant) 07:14, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(arbitrary undent) I just got a database locked notice while deleting stuff at CAT:CSD, and the words didn't seem to be linked, despite the message having been changed. Any idea what happened? Nihiltres(t.l) 18:59, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Don't quote me on this, but I believe some MediaWiki pages don't accept Wikisyntax, and instead have to use standard HTML (a href tags, e.g.) to achieve wikilinking. Maybe I'll try to change the wikilinks to plainlink externals and see what happens. -Mysekurity 08:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I've seen the same thing on some page somewhere, but I was expecting broken [[formatting]] in that case, I suppose. Well, trying out HTML links can't hurt all that much, it's probably worth it. Nihiltres(t.l) 14:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It really is not that important. The terms "slave" and "master" are only insensitive if we apply them to people, it is a perfectly healthy relationship that 2 pieces of hardware can share. Hardware thrives on this sort of relationship, and does not do well in the relationship of equals humans have come to expect. Has anyone actually complained about this wording? Until(1 == 2) 14:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Right. I don't think you, I, nor anyone else reading this page (or most of the tech aspects of Wikipedia) would object to the language, and I think it's written in such a way that it isn't likely to make someone think we were talking about slavery, but it's enough to make a new user question. I was more concerned about the jargon being unfamiliar to the layperson and therefore upsetting than about the political correctness. That said, there really isn't any reason that "primary" and "secondary" wouldn't work just as well. -Mysekurity 20:32, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Except for the reason that "primary and secondary" are not used much in that regard, "master and slave is". I do support a link to Master-slave (computers) if really necessary. Garion96(talk) 21:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but the purpose of the message is not to provide the devs with anything. They already know what's happening. It's the layperson who we're more concerned about, and whom this page will actually be useful. Cryptic error messages and unfamiliar jargon detract from that usefulness and should be avoided or explained if Wikipedia is to become usable by the tech-illiterate. -Mysekurity 23:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Correct, so a link to Master-slave (computers) should educate the tech-illiterate, much better than using a term which is not the actual term for it. But if that is too much work for the dev's (or perhaps they think it's pointless work on which I tent to agree) it should stay the way it is. Garion96(talk) 19:07, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I just got the locked database message and the words weren't linked. — Bob • (talk) • 01:31, July 31, 2007 (UTC)
You could try raw HTML, which might work. I don't think it will though. Prodegotalk 03:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've added some title attributes to the HTML markup that Prodego added to the page. That should help finish the "faux wikilink" effect. EVula// talk // ☯ // 03:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Monobook CSS infobox class: text-align:left
Here's an example
This will wrap:
It shows the odd wrapping in Firefox 2.0.0.4, and IE6 and IE7 via Wine
Currently infoboxes inherit text-align:justify from the bodyContent class (in MediaWiki:Monobook.css). This can look ugly, because it creates huge gaps; see for example Universal Serial Bus, where in "Number of devices" there is such a big space between "Number" and "of" that "of" is closer to the text in the right hand column than to "Number". I think it makes sense to add text-align:left to infoboxes to fix this. Headings should be unaffected since they have text-align:center set manually on them. Hairy Dude 20:46, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hrm, it looks just fine in my browser (Safari 2.0/Mac). What are you using? Can you provide a screenshot? EVula// talk // ☯ // 20:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think you're right. For the record, I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.5 on Ubuntu Feisty. I still think the change is a good idea - I'm not going to give up nicely justified article text for slightly better-looking infoboxes. Hairy Dude 21:00, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You could put .infobox {text-align:left} into your own monobook.css so that it appears just for you. Tra(Talk) 21:25, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Same Firefox version, same Ubuntu, seeing the same mess. Let me try to dream up a global fix for this -- there are lots of us Ubuntians out there :). AmiDaniel (talk) 22:09, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Help with uploading SVGs
I uploaded Image:Questionmark.svg, and is it just me, or is there a large white rectangle in the bottom-right corner? Just in case it is just me, I'm running Firefox 2.x and made the picture in Inkscape. Does anyone know how to fix it? I tried uploading new versions a couple of times with slightly different saved files, and this always happens. Here's the XML if that helps (I don't know if it does). I uploaded Image:Questionmarkblue.png as a bitmap alternative to it (that's what it should look like). — Bob • (talk) • 21:09, July 30, 2007 (UTC)
Hi there :) It's possible that the server doesn't have the font you used for the "?". You might want to convert the "?" to a path. -- JaeSharp 07:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I uploaded a fixed version for you, in place of the old svg. I hope it helps :) -- JaeSharp 07:32, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Awesome. Thanks, JaeSharp. — Bob • (talk) • 07:38, July 31, 2007 (UTC)
As some might know, there have been some issues with sortable wikitables left on Safari. I have found the cause of some of my problems. Some tables use a sortkey trick. Take the following tablecell: <td><span style="display:none">02005-06-02</span> <a href="/wiki/June_2"
title="June 2">June 2</a>, <a href="/wiki/2005" title="2005">2005</a></td>
The idea that the span is hidden from the reader, but is used in sorting. This was not working in Safari (2 and 3). The cause lies in wikibits.js in function ts_getInnerText(). This function retrieves the textual contents stripped from the html tags.
functionts_getInnerText(el){if(typeofel=="string")returnel;if(typeofel=="undefined"){returnel};if(el.innerText)returnel.innerText;// Not needed but it is fastervarstr="";varcs=el.childNodes;varl=cs.length;for(vari=0;i<l;i++){switch(cs[i].nodeType){case1://ELEMENT_NODEstr+=ts_getInnerText(cs[i]);break;case3://TEXT_NODEstr+=cs[i].nodeValue;break;}}returnstr;}
The problems is in the line "if (el.innerText) return el.innerText;" innerText is an IE extension. on FF it is not used because it is undefined. On Safari the innerText call IS present but unfortunately, it is not the same as the IE version. On Safari it does not return "display:none" text. Therefore the whole sortkey is unusable on Safari.
There are 2 ways to deal with this issue:
remove the entire line. I'm not sure if it's actually that much faster on any platform, and the FF way seems to work just fine.
add "if (el.textContent) return el.textContent;" right before it. This basically is the FF variant of innerText and Safari supports it as well. Some very old browsers might not have it, but they can use our current FF for-loop. I tested textContent on Safari 2/3, FF 2.0 and Opera 9.
I'd file a bugticket, but i'm too lazy to register in yet another bugzilla system. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 21:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I guess we're too lazy to fix your bug. :) --brion 01:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What's a way to execute a function on page load? Thanks, — Bob • (talk) • 07:41, July 31, 2007 (UTC)
Nevermind, I googled it. — Bob • (talk) • 08:01, July 31, 2007 (UTC)
[Show] link in collapsibles
I'm trying to create a collapsible table, but with the show link right next to the content of the firs cell: like this (non working, just grahics):
Disc one [show]
Disc one [hide]
#
Original title
English translation
Length
1.
"プレリュード" (Pureryūdo)
"The Prelude"
3:12
2.
"オープニング~爆破ミッション" (Ōpuningu ~ Bakuha Misshon)
"Opening - Bombing Mission"
3:59
This last table is what I am trying to reproduce. I know it is possible, because it is what the "Contents" box of all pages look like (apart from text-align=left). Is the any way of controlling where and how the [show] link appears? Maybe by using a bit of HTML, or use a bit of script? I'll take anything. Please help me. Thank you. happypal (Talk | contribs) 08:16, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid Common.css says "a.NavToggle { position:absolute; top:0px; right:3px; ..." whereas there is no specific css for the TOC's toggle link. The NavToggle is added to NavFrames with javascript, so you can't override it with css styles. Sorry. ←BenB4 09:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the answer. What would one have to do to change that? happypal (Talk | contribs) 16:06, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
All these database lags
Is someone working onfixing them? I made a major edit to an article I had hoped would have help save it, but when I pressed save, it didn't do the usual This is only a preview page it went straight to the page, but with none of my edits! Hitting the back button showed no sign of my edits having ever been done, so I couldn't do my usual copy+paste+save. I looked at my watchlist, where I was confirmed that the site had a major database lag of 157 seconds. If anyone could at the very least help me find at lest a quarter of my edits to the Non-canonical spells in Harry Potter page, I'd be much obliged. Therequiembellishere 17:22, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Mine and Andre's fault, probably. The database lag is typically caused by user renames. To be honest, though, it doesn't cause problems like you described. Sometimes during an edit conflict, instead of saying there's been an edit conflict, it just acts as if it's saved your edits. --Deskana(banana) 19:29, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But there wasn't an edit conflict! (If you look around the time this was made, you'll see an edit I made, and one and little bit after this by GlassCobra, I believe. Mine should be between those) I think I just had some weird anomaly. I've remade my edits, so I don't really care anymore, but it would be something to look out for. Therequiembellishere 20:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Corrupted contribution list?
On the German wikipedia my list of contributions (here) has a series of entries relating to edits to de:Benutzer:ABF/Politisches System BelgiensI have never made (on the German Wikipedia). The page seems to have been imported with its history from the English wikipedia. The edits to the above page predate my first contributions to the German wikipedia! How can this happen? Who could correct this? Cheers. --Edcolins 19:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Now that is truly strange. Until(1 == 2) 19:23, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It appears to have been imported with Special:Import or something like it from Politics of Belgium; Politics of the People's Republic of China also seems to have been imported by the same user. Why would someone do a history-preserving import there, is a question you should ask on their equivalent of the Village pump. --cesarb 20:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
When someone searches on something that doesn't have an article here but does on wiktionary, it just seems like common sense that the wictionary entry would be offered or shown. There are a lot of one-paragraph articles that have been moved over there, and when you search on them you get nothing. Would this be hard to fix? 209.77.205.2 23:25, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Since Wikipedia is not a dictionary, it may be confusing to people when they look for an encyclopedic article and then get a dictionary definition. They may be even more confused when they don't realize they have left Wikipedia and arrived at Wicktionary. Until(1 == 2) 00:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then just offer a link to it in the missing-page message. I wish someone who knows how to work bugzilla would put it in. 209.77.205.2 02:02, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is already a link to Wiktionary in MediaWiki:Searchnoresults which is the message you get when there are no results for your search. Graham87 09:47, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
An automatic transfer to another site would be very confusing to people who are logged into Wikipedia but don't have an account at Wiktionary and see an entirely different interface. Corvus cornix 19:32, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Although I agree with the above comment, maybe Wiktionary could be advertised better on this website? That may help. Currently, there's only a link on the main page down at the bottom, which not everyone will notice, especially as it's surrounded by other Wikiproject names. Just a suggestion... Lradrama 15:20, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Javascript - toggle
Is there a way to use javascript to toggle another function? I.E. have a link (perhaps a porlet link) that is used to toggle a function on/off to keep it from always acting? Obsidian Mask 23:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you mean in a userscript, better ask your question for example at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject User scripts and please be more specific. There are different ways: you could import the script "dynamically" when you click the link or use cookies ∴ Alex Smotrov 00:10, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You could use javascript to add a check-box to the page, then have another javascript function check the status of that check-box before continuing. Or just add a onclick hook to the check-box. Until(1 == 2) 00:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"You could use javascript to add a check-box to the page, then have another javascript function check the status of that check-box before continuing." That would work most excellent-ly. Would you mind showing me a script that could do this (I don't know javascript..) The only thing is - can you add a check box somewhere where it would appear on every page in wikipedia? (like in a portlet area?) Obsidian Mask
I know javascript enough to know it is possible, but not enough to know how to do it, I am sure someone does. Until(1 == 2) 00:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
AFAIK, javascript is disallowed in wikipedia articles, and addition of HTML containing javascript is prevented (see Help:HTML in wikitext). If I am wrong on this, I would be interested in learning the details. -- Boracay Bill 02:02, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You are wrong in the sense that any user can chose to run javascript for himself by adding code to their username/monobook.js. Otherwise, yes, javascript can not be run for anyone but the users who add code they would like to run. (note administrators can execute javascript for everyone through Mediawiki:Monobook.js) Prodegotalk 02:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This script would only be for my use - to turn on and off another script I'm using. Obsidian Mask 02:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What exactly do you have in mind? I know a few expert javascript coders that have created my monobook, and they could probably help you out. Prodegotalk 02:31, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, My user name is borgx from Indonesian Wikipedia. I would like to ask the strategy used for English Wikipedia in monitoring their recent changes. As far as I'm concern it has thousands of edits an hour (exact numbers escape me). My questions are:
Did you ever miss an edit? (Yes, there are a lot of tools for monitoring recentchanges, but these also can't make sure no vandal edits unmonitored).
If yes, what if they were vandals edit? What is your solution for these?
Indonesian Wikipedia now has approx. 1,300 edits per day and the numbers will only grow in time. Although the numbers (comparing to yours) considered low, we also have a very limited number of sysops -- specially when out of 14 syspops, we only have a few active ones and during their monitoring period -- which is not a continuous-- they only check the top 50 or 100 and go about and did something else. These actions leaves gap out of the 1,300 edits a day + we have no mechanism that gives an information to public user saying " the changes had been checked" so we might be checking the same thing several time.
I understand that we have a "patrolled edit" mechanism, but this mechanism is not going well this time because new users may edit something up to 20 times in a certain time and we need to marked patrolled edit 20 times <-- this is not practical. (I have submitted bug 8697 for this but there's no action from developer for my request).
Thanks for any advice - Regards - borgx(talk) 00:00, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we miss edits, we do find month old vandalism, though we get most of them very fast. We use a lot of automated and semi-automated tools. We have a few bots that watch every contribution and look for blatant easily detectable vandalism. The bots revert, warn, and report vandalism.
We also have a few wonderful tools for humans to use, my favorite is WP:TWINKLE. It allows for one click reverting, warning, and reporting of vandals. As an admin the tools allow for fast deletion and removal links for images and articles, it allows for the fast posting of warnings and block messages. With Twinkle one person can do the work of 3. We have WP:AIV for reports of vandalism that can be handled with very little investigation, on this page vandals are reported and blocked on wholesale levels.
Most importantly we have a huge army of anti vandal patrolers that do a wonderful job. I am sure that all of our solutions can work on the Indonesian Wikipedia, the tools just need to be translated. We don't even use patrolled edits here. Until(1 == 2) 00:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've worked on implementing this idea of collaborative patrol before, yet neither my attempts nor others' (i.e., patrol, an extension by Rob Church whose name I'm forgetting, etc.) have proved particularly successful. The primary problem is not developing a robust framework with a competently deployed server-client model--the problem is motivating users to make use of it, which has not been too successful in the past. With one of my attempts I even introduced a fairly complex and accurate "priority" system that ordered the edits displayed to reviewers based upon the likelihood of their being vandalism. This did not succeed in reducing the boredom users felt much at all. In fact it does seem to be this element of boredom vs. excitement that is the motivating force--with things like twinkle and similar scripts people feel as though they're taking part in some sort of first-person shooter, whereas with collaborative patrol tools they feel as though they're working. What we really need to do is get ourselves a video game developer to find some interesting way to integrate vandalism patrol with Counterstrike :D. In any case, if you have some firm ideas about how you would like to implement this on that wiki and could provide me with some sort of concrete specification, I'd be glad to work on implementing something for you guys. I'm just not going to promise that it will be successful, as in the past it's been quite the opposite. AmiDaniel (talk) 00:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
the key is not to aim at efficiency, but redundancy, and to make sure that gaps are eventually covered. Perhaps we should simply think of a calendar-like tracker, where you'd fill in the time period you covered. I use something of the sort for some specialized tracking. DGG (talk) 04:27, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There are now so many people using Wikipedia that the recent changes is now like trying to monitor an immense swarm of insects. There are so many edits that identify as vandalism that yes, initially, some of them are missed, but never obvious ones like large-scale deletions or page blankings. Sometimes, an RC Patroller maybe unsure whether a certain edit is vandalism because he or she may not be specialised in the subject point of the article, and it may be missed that way too. However, I think that in time, most vandalism gets iradicated, because nearly all articles are assigneed to a Wikiproject or two (or even a fair few), and the article's main editors will identify it one way or another. Little stubs/articles not assigned to Wikiprojects and which are infrequently edited are the problem thus. Lradrama 15:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Template help
What suddenly changed on all the talk page project templates? They seem much larger, and have no border or background color anymore. Was something changed? 199.125.109.37 07:26, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And now they are back to normal. What just happened? 199.125.109.37 07:35, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Auto-signatures in templates for assessments
I'm trying to work out how to do auto-signatures in a template, so that whoever leaves a template also ends up signing it either by choice or by default. This is in an effort to get assessments signed. One method, seen at User talk:Psychless/WPBiography, involves relying on users to fill in "user" and "date" parameters correctly. It would be much more convenient to be able to enter ~~~~ directly, but I am struggling to find adequate documentation on how to do this. What I have discovered so far:
Auto-signing was in the history of {{Test5-n}}, as seen here, and used the code {{{2|~<includeonly>~~</includeonly>~}}}.
The ideal functionality would allow the template to be added by humans and bots without any auto-signing, but as soon as certain parameters are filled in (such as class, or requesting a photograph, or requesting an infobox - anything that is likely to require discussion), then the template auto-signs for the person adding that parameter. Subsequent changes to that parameter would then probably have to be manually signed. If auto-signing is not feasible, then the next best thing would be some way to have a parameter like "assessment signature=~~~~", that anyone subsequently editing the talk page would see as an expanded signature that they could then replace. Alternatively, if all this is too difficult, is there a way to get an assessment to link to the article version that was assessed, and the talk page diff that produced the last assessment? Does anyone have any ideas on this, and how to separate out the bits that should be signed from the bits that don't need signing? Carcharoth 10:55, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is currently no magic word or other feature in Wikipedia which would return the username of the person who made an edit as text displayed on the page. There are thus essentially three possible ways of doing this;
Have the user include their name as a parameter in the function call. This isn't particularly useful as most usernames are longer than ~~~~... so it'd be easier for them to just sign normally. The Psychless/WPBiography and s/block examples you cited above work this way.
Substitute the template so that a ~<includeonly>~~</includeonly>~ or somesuch evaluates to a hard signature on the output. Drawbacks here are that the user has to remember to subst: the template (which again is more extra characters than just signing normally), ALL of the template logic will be copied onto the page, and if the user does sign normally they'll end up with two signatures. The Test5-n example you cited above works this way.
Have a bot which traces all uses of the template, checks for signatures, and adds one if none is present. So far as I know, no such bot exists, and to make one it would need to cycle through the edit history to find the edit where the template was added and then get the name of the user who made it.
It is also possible to combine the first two options to create a template which, when substituted, inserts a call to another template with all parameters passed through and an additional parameter automatically set equal to the user's signature. Something like; {{<template to display>|1={{{1|}}}|2={{{2|}}}|name=~<includeonly>~~</includeonly>~}}. Again, the drawback here is that the user has to subst: the original template. --CBD 12:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Subst is not really an option for WPBiography, or for any assessment templates. From what I can see, signing without substing is possible. If I write: {{s/block|~~~~}}, the signature appears inside the template even when I don't substitute it. Like this:
But the signature and timestamp has expanded when I view it after I save, and someone else could overwrite my signature and timestamp with their 'four tildes' next time they update the template. So how does that work? And can it be used in assessment templates? Carcharoth 13:19, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! That is very useful. Carcharoth 20:46, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This has often been requested (I've personally been asked about it and looked into it about 10 times in the last 2 years). The easiest-use solution I've seen involves one subst level. For example: [[Template:Foo]] has content: {{Bar|name=<includeonly>~~~~</includeonly>}} (similar example given above), and then is easily placed with {{subst:Foo}}, which results in something like: {{Bar|name=[[User:Example|Example]] 12:00, 1 August 2007 (UTC)}}, which can then be tested with #if in the non-subst'd bar. Note that this is no different than {{Bar|~~~~}} manually (as above), but removes the ugly tildes (using subst: instead).
As for "someone else could overwrite my signature and timestamp with their 'four tildes' next time they update the template", that is true of any signature on any unprotected page. That is the nature of a wiki. Your original request is only slightly possible while allowing it to be modified by others later. --Splarka (rant) 07:18, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I must have been unclear. Such updating is desired. Whenever anyone changes the assessment, or reconfirms it, they should sign again. The page history then shows the assessment history. Carcharoth 09:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Having the user input ~~~~ as a parameter of course works, but then they might as well just sign it. Use of a 'two template' structure as described by Splarka and I above has the advantage of the user not having to remember/decide to sign. If each time the assessment template were updated the person used the top level template then their name could be automatically signed to it... you could also put the template into a 'Last updated in August 2007' type category based on the substituted date. The only problem would be if someone decided to just edit the 'second level' template directly, but then didn't update the name and/or date. That might be mitigated by having the second level template output display the input format for the current 'top level' template call. There's no foolproof solution though. --CBD 10:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Signature
Is there a way so when you click you get —~~~~ instead of --~~~~?
A userscript in your monobook.js page can probably do this. I'll take a stab at it for you. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 22:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Update: fixed sig expanding in monobook by adding "\" ∴ Alex Smotrov 21:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/Sigdash also works. I may consider changing it to do something like your version (but without the hardcoded array index); I think the implementation of those buttons has changed a couple of times since I first wrote that script. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 08:11, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
White space
Does anyone know what the cause of the white space is in Girona between the dab notice and the beginning of the text/infobox? It doesn't seem to be in the infobox or the page source code. Thanks. —METS501 (talk) 22:00, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's definitely the infobox that it's to blame. It generates totally broken HTML. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 22:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, yes. Thanks. —METS501 (talk) 12:35, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a way to get ParserFuncs to output straight Wikitext?
Without having to go use the Meta ExpandTemplates page, is there a way to get a template to expand with {{subst:}} such that ParserFuncs output actual WikiText instead of the ParserFunc code? Here's the situation:
When putting Fair Use Rationales on hundreds of images that all read very similarly to each other, it's inconvenient to have to copy the FUR from one image, paste it to another image, then modify the things that vary between the two images (like the title of the image's content or the page it's being used on). I created a user template to take care of this, which takes several parameters to customize the output. Because the fair-use patrol bots don't accept user templates, I'm using subst with the template. But since there are ParserFuncs in the template code, those parserfuncs end up in the subst'd output.
Meta talks about ways to do "optional substitution" and composite templates, but I tried the techniques they described there, and I still ended up with the same result.
No, see, I don't want to have to go and use ExpandTemplates to create custom template code that I have to then copy/paste to each image. That's even more inconvenient than just directly copy/pasting the code from image to image. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 23:05, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
He wants a subst: like keyword that behaves like Special:ExpandTemplates. As far as I know that doesn't exist atm. at TfD someone coded a bot that can use Special:ExpandTemplates to do mass subst. of to be deleted scripts when we had that same problem. But that won't help you i guess :D --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 23:39, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Patrick helped to get it much closer to where it should be. I understand it better now. :) Thanks, guys. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 01:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Export points of interest as KML; see them on Google Maps
Pages marked with {{coord}} can be exported as KML (for use in Google Earth, for example) via Brian Suda's site, in this format:
I've requested a template to create such links automatically, for any page on which it appears. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 11:01, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There was big controversy over having coordinates in articles' titles at all when they were first introduced. The link now leads to a list of dozens of tools. Why should articles have a link to any single service over all the others? I can see how getting many locations plotted on a map all at once might be useful, but people have different preferences, which is why the links to geographical information services are collected on a single page where people can make the choice themselves. The proposed template would be used in all articles that have more than one instance of coordinates, and that's too much unnecessary cruft. It might be useful to have such a kml export link in the toolbox, but as far as I know it would then have to appear in all articles, even those that have nothing to do with a location. The best way to make it possible now is to have the coordinate templates give the name of the Wikipedia page to GeoHack, where that link of yours can be put alongside all the others. --Para 12:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"The proposed template would be used in all articles that have more than one instance of coordinates" - it would? Wow, that's an impressive crystal ball you have. Unless you're just inventing more FUD, of course. Perhaps you could list the other site(s) offering this service, so we can see what other preferences people might have? Feel free to implement your GeoHack suggestion; and remove instances of the proposed template (which is no different than, say, the IMDB templates) once you have both done so, and found a way to make it clear that a link to a single set of coordinates should be used to see all coordinates on the page displayed on a map. In the meantime, I won't be holding my breath. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 13:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have already implemented the GeoHack suggestion, you can support it at Template talk:Coord#Moving_microformat_markup_from_articles_to_coord. I'm not aware of any other service that generates kml from a single Wikipedia article, but all the services listed in Template:GeoTemplate have something unique the others don't have. For example, I could start pasting a link to my Google Earth Commons images layer to all articles that have images on Commons, but as a global service that's not where it belongs, and neither does this kml generator of yours. --Para 14:48, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's not my KML generator, and you're offering me apples tomorrow, when I'm asking for pears today. All the services on Template:GeoTemplate relate to a single point, that discussed here does not. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 15:03, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Congratulations for having found a new type of service then, it can probably have a little section of its own in GeoTemplate. There is however no reason that it should absolutely be available at this very instant today; you can wait until the proposed change to coord is done. Otherwise people will have to clean up after you and delete the redundant links from articles. --Para 15:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
More FUD. GeoTemplate is for single waypoints; not collections of waypoints as discussed here. You repeatedly fail to address this point. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 15:44, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
GeoTemplate exists to help people "find maps and data about the location", which covers locations defined as both single or multiple points. You can start thinking of a good description to put in GeoTemplate to make that clear to readers. The script is just another service to add to the list, and your personal preferences have no special status to make it so prominent on Wikipedia. Now, can we please have this discussion at a single location? I suggest keeping it here. --Para 15:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying to reduce the size of some university templates. I used {{Johnny Cash}} as a base and converted {{University of Oklahoma}}. I am working on converting {{University of Texas at Austin}} because it is huge but they wanted to know if I could work the image into the template and I couldn't figure out how. The template I have created in its place is located at User:Nmajdan/Test1. How can I add an image to this template? It would be easier if it was using tables, but it strictly used divs, so a CSS person is requested. Thank you.↔NMajdan•talk 11:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You do have a table in there, which should make adding the image easy enough. Add a colspan="2" to the single cell in the top row, and add a new cell |width="100" valign="middle"|[[Image:Hookem hand.svg]] to the end. Or is that not what you want? Anomie 12:15, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, crap. I hate it when its something easy. That worked perfectly, thanks.↔NMajdan•talk 13:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Minor edits hiding non-minor edits
I just made an edits to an article, then made a correction and marked it as minor. But when choosing to hide minor edits in my watchlist the article doesn't show up at all. Shouldn't the next newest non-minor edit show up in the list instead? If it doesn't then this has the potential to hide non-minor edits when minor edits are made after them. If a vandal makes an edit and someone makes a minor edit after it they could intentially or unintentially hide the vandalism from many users who choose to see the vandalism. -- Andrew | flame him | stalk him 13:17, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If I correctly understand your problem, just go to your preferences and check Watchilst → Expand watchlist to show all applicable changes and Recent Changes → Enhanced recent changes (JavaScript). This should be the default for new users because otherwise watchlist is imho unusable ∴ Alex Smotrov 13:27, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I was actually referring to when an edit is minor and hidden the next newest edit which is not hidden should show up. This shows all the edits prior to that but I suppose it's better than nothing. -- Andrew | flame him | stalk him 17:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Microformat markup in article space
I have recently become worried of article modifications by Wikipedia:WikiProject Microformats, which intends to introduce microformat html markup in wikitext as such, instead of implementing it inside the usual data entry templates. This unnecessarily obfuscates wikitext with keywords that are meaningless to most editors, making articles harder to edit. Examples of the damage can be seen here and as single purpose inline microformat templates (such as used on [1] and [2]). What could be done to keep the microformat features but not show the special purpose markup to article editors?
I have tried combining the semantic annotation and the microformat functionality of those special use templates into the standard templates to keep articles editable by proposing a change to add a name parameter to the templates, but a single editor keeps insisting on a minor aesthetic detail as a reason to keep using his own templates. The proposed change would make the obscure
{{hcard-bday|Firstname Lastname|birth date and age|1955|06|08}}
to
Firstname Lastname, born {{birth date and age|1955|06|08|name=Firstname Lastname}}
Having failed to obtain support for your campaign elsewhere, you appear to be forum shopping. Your claim of "[intention] to introduce microformat html markup in wikitext as such" is bogus. Your attempts at modifying these templates are, as explained previously, broken (and the issue is not a "minor aesthetic detail"). Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 14:17, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Requesting more opinions to a discussion where a single contributor manages to make it seem as if there's no consensus is not forum shopping at all, it's lack of participation, which apparently needs to be requested. People, please contribute, the editor's well known repetitive argumentation has repeatedly stopped admins from closing editprotected requests because on a quick look it may seem that he still has something new to say. The topics are on the long side, my apologies for feeding the troll. --Para 14:30, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There has been some more opinions to one of the microformat merge proposals, but so far nobody has commented on the issue of including raw special case HTML in articles directly. In its current form it seems to really be getting out of hand with edit obstructions such as here or here. How can the situation be improved to keep articles editable? Is there perhaps some semantic extension somewhere between the standard MediaWiki and a full blown Semantic MediaWiki installation? --Para 11:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The edits you describe as "edit obstructions" are, of course, nothing of the kind - the articles are still fully editable. I also note that you've previously opposed the kind of templates which would obviate the need for the in-line-class mark-up used in the examples you give. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 13:27, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Technically oriented people may still be able to edit articles with microformat html mixed in with the text, but it's total gibberish for most others. The whole point of wikitext is to make it easy for people to participate without having to touch the raw html, and these microformat edits are moving away from that principle.
What microformats seem to need are containers for fragments of data, and a wrapper to tie them all together. In most cases this requires the data to be clustered close together as overlapping wrappers aren't allowed. I am not expecting to see templates to wrap pieces of information together and as a side-effect create a microformat wrapper (like {{PoI}} for example does), as such meta-templates would make no sense logically, wouldn't be easily editable either as the syntax differs between meta-templates, and would take away all the editor freedom to format and order the content. I'm thinking more of something like an extension that 1) allows information to be tagged to tell what it is, and 2) reacts to a special keyword with some attribute syntax to explain how additional markup should be generated. The wikitext rendering module could then generate the microformat html and other similar additional formats that can be included in the standard html, based on the semantic markup. That way people wouldn't have to look at keywords of some obscure output format, but general semantic ones readable for anyone. SMW does something like this, but I feel it's bit of an overkill with all its query features. --Para 15:03, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And when all that is possible (and you'll notice that it's written into the aims of the microformats project), everything will be fine and dandy. In the intervening months, or years, we must work with what we have. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 15:13, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Issue with small and numbered lists
For me, the list below skips #2. Is this a known issue? --After Midnight0001 14:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
[reply]
a
b
c
d
After a few tests with other people on #wikimedia-tech, the problem seem to affect lists in <small>, <big> and <span> (see fr:User:Darkoneko/x)
Oh, and it doesn't "skip" 2, what actually happens is that a non-visible extra li element is added between the desired #1 and #2. <li style="list-style: none"></li> so you request a list of 4 elements, but mediawiki generates a list with 5 elements of which one is invisible. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:47, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder why it's the second and not the first or last ^^; Darkoneko 14:48, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
OK, so now that we know it is reproducible..., is it worth reporting on bugzilla? --After Midnight0001 15:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This seems to be an unexpected error (well, sort of expected — shouldn't be wrapping blocks in inlines anyway) in the way the HTML cleanup and the wikicode conversion routines interact. Writing the HTML out by hand (<small><ol><li> ... </ol></small>) gives me correct numbering when the code is fixed, as does wrapping the list elements in a block-level element, such as <div>, which is normal behavior in the first place. It's possible to work around the parsing bug by adding a block element (<br /> will work fine) to the end of the first list item (e.g. # a<br />), but, well, that's a hack. This markup will only affect the items inside the list and not the auto-numbering, so you might as well move the <small> tags inside the item definitions. —TangentCube, Dialogues 21:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Or you could wrap the entire list in a <div style="font-size: smaller"> as with
a
b
c
d
Of course that also makes the numbers smaller, but then I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve with the formatting. older ≠ wiser 11:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think it warrants a bug report. --Edokter (Talk) 12:03, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A simple matter: me and another editor disagree whether at table here is fine (to me) or displaced (to the coeditor). Comments appreciated on which of us is 'the fluke', and if the table is broken, how to fix it.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 16:35, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion centres around readability and display issues, but I don't see any significant problems with it, and certainly none that the other editor reported. I have viewed it on two PCs (with TFT and CRT) just to be sure, so I think it must be an issue that is local to his PC, not in the table itself. That raises the question of whether it may be a common enough occurrence to worry about, and I can't really answer that. AdrianM. H. 18:17, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Looked fine to me. There didn't seem to be anything funny with the code either. Unless the editor is viewing Wikipedia with a different skin and that is causing the problem (unlikely, but you never know), then it must be a local problem. - 52 Pickup 18:54, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Edit Summary
I don't think the edit summary's maximum length is big enough, the reason I say this is 3 times I had to shorten the length of the summary, the reason for that is that I like clicking on "edit this page" and fixing everything I can find, and then leaving a detailed edit summary e.g. [3]. I understand there is a need for an edit summary size limit but it could be a bit bigger. Jeffrey.Kleykamp 18:48, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm inclined to agree, to an extent. There are occasions when I need to add something to a reversion summary and do not wish to lose the automatic part of the summary. On the other hand, as you rightly said, there is a need for a limit. It seems to equate to exactly two lines on the watchlist on a 1024 viewport. AdrianM. H. 19:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In that case we should make it three lines because it's only +1/2. Jeffrey.Kleykamp 19:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's exactly the case when in comment you say "see talk page". Although personally I would try to make my comment more compact ∴ Alex Smotrov 21:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's possible to make the edit summary length allowed slightly longer using this script (by Gracenotes) in your monobook.js:
//A script by [[User:Gracenotes]] to allow longer edit summariesaddOnloadHook(function(){varsumBox;if(sumBox=document.getElementById('wpSummary'))sumBox.setAttribute("maxlength","250");});
The reason that this isn't used by default is that you have to be careful using it; the maximum edit summary length you can use reduces by two characters for every accented letter, special character or other character not in ASCII-7 (English letters and numbers are alright, but most other languages aren't). Still, the extra fifty characters do come in useful sometimes. If a really long summary is needed, write 'see talk' and put the explanation on the talk page. --ais523 16:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn't huge edit summaries look rather irritating to the eye on article histories and your watchlist? I like the neat little list of usernames and their edit descriptions, but, it's what ever floats your boat I suppose... Lradrama 15:29, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The WPBiography template uses a listas parameter to define a DEFAULTSORT, and has listas=Lawrence, Aaron; but the WP:LBGT template has "DEFAULTSORT:PAGENAME". Because the WP:LBGT template appears on the talk page below the WPBiography template, the article sorts under 'A' in all its categories. If you swap the templates round, it will sort under 'L'. This is expected behaviour for DEFAULTSORT (the last occurence on a page is the one that is used), but in terms of different templates using DEFAULTSORT, this can only lead to chaos.
I think what is needed is to deprecate the use of DEFAULTSORT inside templates, and to have only a single DEFAULTSORT on a page. Otherwise you get the silly situation where a talk page with WPBiography on it is correctly sorted under the person's surname (using listas), but then the sorting gets undone if someone puts a template on the page from another project, putting it on the page after the WPBiography template, where the new template only has "DEFAULTSORT:PAGENAME", which will then sort the person under the page title (ie. in this case by their forename).
What would be simpler would be if it would be possible for talk pages to automatically DEFAULTSORT to any DEFAULTSORT value present on the talk page's article. Would this be possible? Carcharoth 01:26, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This shows that even if a template has a DEFAULTSORT tag, it can be useful to put the sortkey also in the category tag in the template. This way the sorting in this category is not affected by possible DEFAULTSORT tags further down the page in which the template is called.--Patrick 07:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This issue applies in every namespace. Having DEFAULTSORT in an article also apply to the talk page is a separate issue.--Patrick 07:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I thought of having the sortkey also in the category tags in the template. Unfortunately {{WPBiography}} is a bit bloated. Have a look at Template:WPBiography/Categories. When that list was made, the WPBiography template was populating 212 categories. Putting PAGENAME as the DEFAULTSORT value, and listas as the manual over-ride would work, and might ultimately be the best solution. Then no-one has to worry about placement any longer. This might be the best long-term solution as well, as it doesn't matter if "DEFAULTSORT:PAGENAME" is in every template on a page - the effect will be the same. Carcharoth 09:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Setting Popup reverts as minor
I'm new to using the popup tool in reverting vandalism. I'd like to ask, how do you set it so that every time I revert the vandalism, it's listed as a minor edit? Thanks in advance.--Kylohk 08:01, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I can't see why all reverts are considered minor edits. I see reverting a page blanking and other vulgar vandalous edits as a major saving grace regarding the article's fortunes. Lradrama 15:31, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, reverts are rarely minor. Until(1 == 2) 15:33, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Since reverting vandalism doesn't actually change the content of an article, such reverts are concidered minor edits, just like any other 'housekeeping' edits. See Help:Minor edit for more info. --Edokter (Talk) 16:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO, Popups is correct in not marking reverts (and delinks) as minor. You might be reverting something significant, and anyone watching the page should see it. — Randall Bart(talk) 22:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
address element
Semantically, each page on Wikipedia should have an address element. If this were marked up with class="author" an hCardmicroformat, the hAtom microformat could be added to relevant pages, such as Portal:Current_events (everything else required is tested and possible). It seems to me that the page footer:
Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a US-registered 501(c)(3) tax-deductible nonprofit charity.
or part of it should be in that element, with "Wikipedia" as the hCard's class="fn org" property.
(I have tried adding an address element, manually, to a sandbox page, but it's not recognised by MediaWiki.)
I notice that the same references (books, articles, etc) reoccur in many of the articles which I edit. To copy the text which defines a references, for example, in the form of a cite or ref tag, is perhaps not a big deal. But I also notice that different editors write the same reference in slightly different ways in different articles, with different styles, etc. Again, not a big problem, but it occurs to me that it could be nice to have a reference defined (author, title, etc) once and for all in one place and instead use pointers or links in the different articles to connect to the reference data. In the case of ref tags this could also mean that the edit text becomes less cluttered with the ref data and instead a short link can be used. --KYN 12:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As a guide, footnote layout and styling should follow WP:CITET. No need to use the templates, obviously (they create extra typing/pasting anyway and can be more difficult to view subsequently) but they provide a good style guide. That does not include any variation in the availability of certain fields, of course; sometimes you have to omit certain fields, such a publishing date. To address your suggestion, some editors keep libraries of oft-used references; perhaps you would want to do the same for references that you use a lot. AdrianM. H. 14:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for this input. But already from the WP:CITET guide it is clear from the two columns of examples that variation is possible. Also:
Even with a guide like WP:CITET it is up to the editor to chose if a possible subtitle should be included or not, or if the page number to a journal article is added. This may lead to one and the same reference having inconsistent appearances in several Wikipedia articles.
Minor error in one reference (e.g. ISBN number, page numbers, etc) are copy-pasted to new articles
if such errors are detected, it appears to be rather tedious to find and correct all occurrences in copy-pasted references.
Proposal for reference namespace
I'm not suggesting that these are major problems that keep me awake at night, but from a technical point of view they appear rather straightforward to fix? Why not have a Reference name space where all references (used in WP) are given a single definition and we can link to there from the articles? This also make sense since it would provide the right place to describe and discuss a reference. This can of course also be made using an ordinary Wikipedia article, but a reference also contains metadata in the form of author, title, etc, which can be managed more easily in a separate namespace. --KYN 15:20, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The number of potential problems here is enormous. For example, many references include a link to an online source such as JSTOR. This is OK, but if we were to do it in a centralized way, we would need a way of also indicating any other sources. This is particular problematic for newspaper citations,which are available from a variety of free and paid services. Equally difficult will be obtaining agreement from the several hundred thousand individualists here about the exact standard form, considering we have been arguing for months about merely whether to included the period inside or outside quotation marks. This sort of service requires both a considerable number of dedicated staff and a way of making and enforcing decisions. A top-down organisation could do it. I've said elsewhere it would be worth the effort--but its an enormous effort. 07:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
edit tag for lede section
I don't know if any proposed this before but a "[edit]" link on the lede section of every article would be handy. Every other section have these. At least it could be an optional element for registered users. Caveat lector 13:37, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What's wrong with the edit tab at the top? If you really want to edit only the lead section, click an edit link and change the last digit to 0. AdrianM. H. 14:26, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The "[edit]" tags are very useful for quickly editing long pages, over a slow connection. It just looks like a curious omission from the wiki. Caveat lector 14:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Or you put importScript('User:Ais523/editsection0tab.js'); in your monobook.js --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:41, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the script ref. I'll do this Caveat lector 14:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I too would prefer an edit link for the top section (not a tab). Editing the top section of long pages really is a drag, even on broadband. I'm hacking up a template to add such a link to certain pages. --Edokter (Talk) 15:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That is what Alex was refering to. But my template positions itself above the top line, next to the page title, while Edit-first-section just floats to the right. --Edokter (Talk) 19:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Template/WikiProject Banner help
{{WikiProject College football}} has an extra linebreak below where it says "The article has not received a rating on the importance scale." The HTML code has an extra <p><br /></p> that should not be there but I cannot find in the code where this is coming from. Any ideas?↔NMajdan•talk 15:49, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed (I think). Cheers. --MZMcBride 16:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I see. Thanks. I never understood the reason for having those HTML comment lines over line breaks. I never use those in my templates but just assumed they were they for a reason. Guess not.↔NMajdan•talk 17:00, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
reCAPTCHA
Currently we use a CAPTCHA on the sign up page. [4] Has anyone considered replacing it with reCAPTCHA to help digitize books? (Mediazilla appears to be down right now.) — Omegatron 00:31, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I endorse this suggestion. You wanna help code it? ←BenB4 00:56, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The article says that "reCAPTCHA is a free service, except for users who would require a prohibitive amount of bandwidth." Since Wikipedia has a lot of signups each day, they may want to charge money. Tra(Talk) 01:02, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We also use captchas whenever new accounts and IPs try to add a new external link to an article, or whenever a login fails. The load could add up to quite a bit. Dragons flight 01:05, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Their FAQ says to contact them for over 10,000 per day. I wonder how many per day we have. ←BenB4 01:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's ~7 / minute, we have a couple new account creations per minute on enwiki alone, so I'd be pretty sure that collectively there are more than 10000 captchas served per day. How many more I'm not sure. Dragons flight 01:17, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a look at the log, and I estimate there to be approximately 7300 account creations in the last 24 hours. If we assume that only 10% of people who get to the account creation form actually sign up, that's 73000 requests to provide a captcha each day. Then you need to add in the number of people who get it wrong and need another captcha, plus the number of IPs adding links and the number of incorrect passwords. I think they probably will want to charge some money. Even if it was affordable, the foundation might not want to do it since they tend to want to use free software (bear in mind that these numbers are just estimates, and may be hopelessly out). Tra(Talk) 01:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
For us it would make more sense if to use our own re-captcha for helping out with our own OCRing efforts. Sadly our efforts are not organized enough to do that, yet. --Gmaxwell 14:20, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Would it make sense to help them in the interim to see how well this works? maybe if we get them a lot of digitization they'd put our own OCR stuff in as part of what gets done? ++Lar: t/c 14:23, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that they refuse to open-source the software is kind of a showstopper for us for being involved with it. --brion 01:30, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd suggest they be asked. Given whom we are, they might be very willing to accommodate the load. But I would think the Foundation would want to be asked in any case. DGG (talk) 07:40, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Asked them months ago, was told no. --brion 11:25, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Technical problems in the Latin Wikipedia
Since yesterday we are having technical problems in the Latin Wikipedia. Some/many talk pages are not displayed, I mean, they are displayed blank, there is not even a navigation on the top. See la:Vicipaedia:Taberna#Blank_talk_pages.
To whom should we report this problem? Thanks! --Roland2 06:40, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Solved. --Roland2 11:39, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Full URL and square brackets appearing in footnoted references
I am having persistent problems with references in which the URLs in refs, which ordinarily shrink to a redirect logo, are appearing in full. Examples are in the footnotes to West Gate Bridge, Consequences (album) and 10cc (oddly enough, the problem references are reference No. 2 on each occasion. Weird.) As far as I can see, the markup is correct. Can anyone spot the problem? Thanks. Grimhim 04:00, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that you put the brackets around the entire citation. THe brackets should only be arounf the url. The comments next to the url should not be inside the brackets. --Hdt83Chat 04:09, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure this answers the question. The example in 10cc is a better one. Compare the markup for references 1 and 2: they're identical, but produce different results. I want them to look like ref no. 1, as illustrated in "External link" in Wikipedia:Cheatsheet, where just the summary of the URL appears.Grimhim 04:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It was due to a newline in the link.--Patrick 05:54, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Patrick, that's what I was after. I take it you're saying a whole line space was in there somewhere between the URL and the summary? It's not an easy thing to see when the line of unbroken text is so long, and I can't see how an extra line could appear, but I'll have a play round with it if it happens to me again. Thanks again. Grimhim 06:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In fact the most convenient way to check for newlines in the wikitext of an external link seems to be simply to check the link in preview. If in doubt, delete with backspace the character which comes before a new line, and add a space.--Patrick 00:03, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Tracking use of magic words
Is there a way to track the use of magic words on pages? I ask because it would be an immensely useful clean-up category to be able to find all the biographical articles (at a first pass, those with {{WPBiography}} on their talk pages) that lack DEFAULTSORT. Humans using AWB could then suggest a defaultsort based on the category pipes and/or article talk page. However, identifying those pages that lack defaultsort is a problem. Possibly the only way to do it at present is to use a bot to read pages and output a list of those lacking DEFAULTSORT. It would be preferable though to have a software solution. What is needed is a category inside the magic word, or a "what links here" type thing for to track a magic word like DEFAULTSORT. Is this possible? Carcharoth 13:29, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't tracked. You could use a database dump to find them quicker and more efficiently than with a bot. However, I'm not sure what the urgency is. I'd say it's best to just tackle them as they are found since no user visible behavior is impacted by leaving them, assuming the sort keys that are in place are consistent. I have a user script that helps me replace the explicit sort keys with DEFAULTSORT and I usually check it whenever I edit a biographical article, but I don't think I'd go looking for them. Mike Dillon 06:39, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You say "as they are found". I'm proposing to find them in one go, and start a clean-up project to try and ensure that all biographical articles are correctly sorted. If they are not correctly sorted, then biographical categories are a hopeless mix of articles sorted either by surname or by first name. There is little point in being able to sort articles if you cannot tell which ones are sorted without looking at individual articles. It is a bit like the categories Category:Year of birth missing and other clean up categories like that. This would simply be Category:Default sort key missing. If a category is too obtrusive, a "what links here" function would help. Another reason for wanting to track DEFAULTSORT is the point raised at this discussion, namely that DEFAULTSORT is being extensively used in talk page templates. This is silly because only the last occurence of DEFAULTSORT on a page will work. I suspect the vast majority of DEFAULTSORTs in talk page template are "DEFAULTSORT:PAGENAME", which is why the "only the lowest DEFAULTSORT works" behaviour is rarely spotted. And when a template tries to use a different DEFAULTSORT, it rarely works unless it is the lowest or only template on the talk page. But there seem to be strong arguments for deprecating the use of DEFAULTSORT in templates altogether (templates 'hide' the defaultsort, making it very difficult to tell what is going on when one template's DEFAULTSORT is over-riding the others), or limiting it to just DEFAULTSORT:PAGENAME. As I say in that discussion I linked to, it would be nice to be able to do a "what links here" for the DEFAULTSORT magic word, and restrict the results to template namespace. Failing that, the options seem to be a bot search, a database dump search, or a search like this. Now do you see why I'm saying that tracking magic words would be a very useful feature? Who do you think would be able to actually answer the question of whether this is possible? Carcharoth 10:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I guess I was assuming that most biography articles are sorted right, with or without default sort, since that's the case with most biography articles I've seen. In addition to what I said above about editing default sorts if I'm already editing a bio article, the other case that prompts me to do it is seeing something out-of-order in a category (it just doesn't seem to happen often). Given what you're talking about, I guess it would be useful to find the intersection of {{WPBiography}} articles and those that don't use DEFAULTSORT to check that they are actually being sorted correctly (since there isn't much chance of someone adding DEFAULTSORT in a biography article for a reason other than sorting correctly).
As for whether it's possible to do, yes, it is possible, but it would require changing MediaWiki to do it. Finding uses of magic words (or parser hooks for that matter) would be a lot like tracking uses of categories. The change would require some parser changes to keep track of magic word use and a new database table to track it. Whether or not this is something that will be implemented is another issue, but it doesn't seem like it would be that hard. Mike Dillon 04:09, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. You've answered my main question about whether it is at all possible. Taking other questions to your talk page. Carcharoth 15:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My monobook
I'm unsure if I've done this correctly, see here. I hit the F5 button, but nothing comes up. I don't use FireFox or Modzilla, just Internet Exploror 6. Lord Sesshomaru 21:59, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What you need to do is press Ctrl + F5 instead of just F5 so that the script is loaded. Tra(Talk) 22:18, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Incidentally, which bits of Twinkle did you intend to use? I ask because you need more code than just the one line, it seems, unless you want everything. AdrianM. H. 22:22, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I would like everything. How do I have it all? Lord Sesshomaru 22:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
From the Twinkle page: "Will not work in IE". Just so you know... — Edokter • Talk • 22:40, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you want everything, you currently have it. Kind of the point of my question. What you end up with is a whole bunch of bits that you might not use and some bits (admin stuff) that you may not be able to use. Academic, though, because as our fellow editor has pointed out, IE is out.AdrianM. H. 22:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You may have the same problem that I encountered. If you are using Internet Explorer, TWINKLE won't work - much to my annoyance! The same thing happened with the 'Admin-like revert function' with me aswell. After over 7 months on RC Patrol, I'm still going about the process old-school style! Lradrama 09:56, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Spam Filter Filters Everything . . . Including Speedies
Just recently I was trying to put up a {{db-copyvio}} for Iranians or Persians?. Unfortunately the spam filter decided to halt my attempts to add the url into the speedy. Is there any way of getting around this short of just posting db-copyvio and putting the link in the edit summary? -WarthogDemon 22:36, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't see that one coming. That's a question for the devs to answer, I think, so I recommend a trip to Bugzilla (checking first to see if it has already been raised). AdrianM. H. 22:48, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Forgot to add that I think you would be OK to leave the URL in the summary (unless that gets caught as well). Makes Twinkle impossible though, because that requires the URL to be added to a popup box. AdrianM. H. 22:50, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Registering there seems to mean using my email as a username, something I would rather avoid. Would it be possible for you to, or is there someone else here on Wikipedia I could bring this to? -WarthogDemon 23:40, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, I don't use Bugzilla either. But plenty of editors do, and one of them might either have the answer to this or know that it has already been raised or be willing to raise it. If the e-mail address is your only concern, you could just create one for that purpose. AdrianM. H. 23:57, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Did you try using <nowiki> around the URL? --cesarb 00:16, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Now why didn't I think of that? It works! Thanks! :) -WarthogDemon 00:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Can't use Alt-F in IE7?
When I'm at a wikipedia page, Alt-F doesn't work in IE7 (and previous IE versions too). Instead of bringing up the file menu, it takes me to the search box. Is there a way to disable this? I use alt-F pretty frequently. 24.17.110.223 00:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know of any way to disable this, but if you type "Alt", then let go, then type "F" you should get the file menu. Obviously, someone decided to designate "Alt-F" as "find" on wikipedia. Dragons flight 00:32, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Do parser functions work in Mediawiki space? Dragons flight 00:49, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It depends on which message it is and how MediaWiki is using it. Parser functions are currently used in MediaWiki:Noarticletext, for example. Mike Dillon 06:22, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any way to get this list to extend beyond the first 1,000 entries? --MZMcBride 01:32, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
For everyone? Because if it's only for yourself, I do know a way to do that. Just click 500 so you get that in the url like this: [5]. Leave the offset alone but for the limit just type the desired number and that'll work. :) -WarthogDemon 01:38, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying to go beyond the first 1,000 entries, not limit them. --MZMcBride 01:56, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No ... a lot of those special pages only go to 1000. --B 06:16, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Lack of notification of edit conflict
I have been finding recently that if I try to add a comment to the bottom of a discussion (only seen it on WP:RD/s and WP:ANI), but someone else comments before I finish, instead of informing me of an edit conflict, my comment just gets tagged onto the end of whatever the thread looked like when I hit the "save page" button. Is this a bug, or is it supposed to happen? Someguy1221 07:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That sometimes happens with me too. To be honest, I can't stand that blasted edit conflict thing, I much prefer the way you just mentionned! Lradrama 09:58, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure but I think it was changed to like that on purpose. You only get an edit conflict when the system is unable to resolve the conflict. If it can, it just adds it based on who edited first or something. Most of the time, it works well IMHO Nil Einne 12:14, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Changing "header" section on collapsible tables - can it be done?
Given that a standard collapsible table works like this:
non-hidden content
hidden content
...is there any way to make a table where the non-hidden content changes when the table is not collapsed? - 52 Pickup 10:19, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd think you could if you used {{#ifs}} or something to that degree. ~Wikihermit 18:03, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You could do something lame...
like this
Will not work properly in all browsers.
To do what you want properly would probably require changing the javascript (at MediaWiki:Common.js. --Splarka (rant) 07:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I can see the problem there. Unfortunately, what I want to place in the "header" has a variable height. If-functions don't appear to help either. I wasn't sure if this was possible, so thanks for the confirmation. - 52 Pickup 08:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Spacing issues
On my user page, there is a long space between the "Identity" section and the "User subpages" section. I can't find what's causing it. Is it the userboxes, transcluded at the right? There doesn't seem to be anything noticeable that's causing this. Thanks. (I have a wide screen, BTW, so if you aren't seeing a huge space, it may just be because your screen is skinnier than mine.) --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 15:50, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Substitute the template and you can remove the problematic declaration from your page. AdrianM. H. 21:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Creating a special page for names
I have been working hard on the Anthroponomy wikiproject and I was interested in trying to set up a special page similar to that of the Book Sources special page that would allow users to search through the various government and private databases on the use of a particular name within a area. Any information related to this would be welcome. Remember 16:34, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(External) link colors
In a template, I have an edit link to the current article. It's a full URL so it's not a wiki link. By default, these (technically) external links have an arrow and have a different color the wiki links. I lost the arrow by using .plainlinks, but I can't seem to find a way to change the link color to behave like wiki links (instead of the always pale blue-ish external link), at least not without overriding the stylesheet. And I don't want to do that.
So, how do I create a full-url link without arrow and wiki-link colors, without overriding the current stylesheet? — Edokter • Talk • 17:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Like this Unless that's what you mean by overriding the stylesheet default (which is essentially what you're doing, but there's no other way). AdrianM. H. 21:02, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's exactly the thing I'm trying to avoid. I was hoping I could somehow invoke the regular a.link and .plainlinks class at the same time from whatever stylesheet is active; my CSS knowledge is quite lacking in that respect. — Edokter • Talk • 22:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But link is a pseudoclass, like html. AdrianM. H. 22:15, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I just made Template:Rounded that creates a box with rounded corners. It's a bit of an experiment. It uses 10 divs to give the rounded corners effect. My question is: are there any foreseeable (technical/webdesign) disadvantages of the usage of this many divs for creating only one box with rounded edges? Freestyle 21:15, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you want IE compatability, that's the only way. Otherwise, use moz-border-radius declarations. AdrianM. H. 21:57, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately it looks really ugly in IE6 (SP1 6.02800.1106 on Win2000). So I guess you could use it on your user page… ∴ Alex Smotrov 22:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Okay thanks for the info, If I can find a computer with IE6 I might try to fix that. P.s. Don't forget that most things look really ugly in IE6 :P .Freestyle 22:13, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Um not this ugly Image:IE6-rounded.PNG (I purposely didn't put a license since the image is not fair use nor is it free) Nil Einne 12:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There, I think I fixed it The keyword here was adding "overflow: hidden" to the divs. I also added an extra line of rounding, but it may seem a tad too much? Someone please check if it still works under Firefox. — Edokter • Talk • 16:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's fine in Firefox 2. --ais523 16:53, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Category activation
Talk:Standard penetration test says that it is in Category:Unassessed CE articles, but it is not displayed on the category page. I have tried purging and refreshing the pages, but I can't get it to show up. It has been about one day since the category was created. Does anyone know what is going on? -- Basar (talk·contribs) 00:47, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Problem solved. It was due to the use of a template redirect, which has now been replaced with its correct title. AdrianM. H. 00:53, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have no trouble with exporting the monobook pages, though I haven't tried importing them. Where are you having trouble? Prodegotalk 20:27, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Image metadata
I was directed here from the Help desk. Here's my question: Does anyone know how to go about fixing the links in an image's metadata? I assume there is a script that does this automatically which means an admin will most likely have to take care of it. If you look at the metadata for pictures taken by a Canon camera, the link points to Canon, not Canon (an example of a pic I uploaded yesterday is here - scroll to the bottom). Thanks. ♫ Bitch and Complain Sooner ♫ 02:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, we can't do anything about it. Whatever the camera says is automatically linked, and we can't add exceptions. Prodegotalk 02:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
D'oh! Oh well, just thought I'd check in case it was an easy fix. Thanks anyway! ♫ Bitch and Complain Sooner ♫ 03:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(another view) Hmmm...
Statement of the problem:
Some common brands of digital cameras place metadata in digital photos which identify the camera manufacturer, camera model, etc. However, they may use specific metadata values which are not compatible with Wikipedia article names.
Statement of the proposed solution:
There is no solution. We (Wikipedia) can't do anything about it. (Implication: Camera manufacturers are expected to provide Wikipedia-article_name-friendly metadata values)
This strikes me as unreasonable.
My guess is that there is a standard or a developing standard somewhere concerning the contents of the fields labeled "Camera manufacturer" and "Camera model" in Wikipedia Image pages such as this. It may be convenient to provide metadata redirects (e.g., for a "Camera manufacturer" field content of "Canon", to provide a Wikipedia page named Metadate_mfg_Canon or Metadata:mfg_Canon or Metadata:Camera manufacturer/Canon or somesuch which redirects (in this example case) to Canon (company). Then, wherever contents of the "manufacturer" field is extracted from an Image file displayed, and wikilinked wikilinked, it could be wikilinked with the appropriate indirection prefix ("Metadata:mgf_" or whatever. All that remains, then should be to manually maintain the indirection redirects according to published standards vs. Wikipedia article naming.) (that was just a top-of-the-head illustrative suggestion -- there are no doubt better ways to do this.) -- Boracay Bill 04:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
template show / hide (showing by default when should be hide)
I just noticed that many of the templates that I watch that have a show / hide function (that hide by default) are now all showing by default. For some reason, the show is expanded when it should be hidden on page load. Examples {{public finance}}, {{UStaxation}}. Morphh(talk)13:12, 08 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is a result to the NavFrame bug fix applied to Common.js. They used to collapse if there were three or more on a page, but now they are always open unless the NavContent style="display:none;..." (so you now have control over NavFrame's initial state.) Many of the NavFrames can be traced back to a protected template, many of which have {{editprotected}}s outstanding. I will fix all that I can see. If anyone sees more, list them here, or if you feel ambitious, add the display:none; to the NavContent style. ←BenB4 13:47, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
you get —~~~~ instead of --~~~~?
The keyword here was adding "overflow: hidden" to the divs. I also added an extra line of rounding, but it may seem a tad too much? Someone please check if it still works under Firefox. — Edokter • Talk • 16:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
