User talk:Northamerica1000/Archive 13

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This week's article for improvement (week 10, 2014)


Because it is so vast, there are a large number of different cultures involved in Prehistoric Asia

Hello, Northamerica1000.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Prehistoric Asia

Previous selections: Human skeleton • Reconnaissance satellite

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Thanks for the four references. I moved three into footnotes, and left out the AmSpec ref (since it seems the least notable of the four).Anythingyouwant (talk) 13:27, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your work to improve Debbie Schlussel. NorthAmerica1000 13:30, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Sure thing. I find a lot of her views, and especially her method of expressing them, rather repugnant, but to each her own.Anythingyouwant (talk) 13:33, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm entirely uninterested about the subject's philosophies. Just another BLP article nominated for deletion that appears to meet notability standards (WP:BASIC). NorthAmerica1000 13:37, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

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Resolved NorthAmerica1000 10:58, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

A cheeseburger for you!

Cheeseburger.png So you went in and cleaned up the article using AutoEd? I'm new to Wikipedia so thanks. Deesm (talk) 22:47, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your contributions to the encyclopedia (e.g. Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Rockview Farms). NorthAmerica1000 03:22, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Hey I just notice that North American and South American cuisine was merged


I notice that North and South American cuisine is merged. I am absolutely against this merge. Just because the articles are incomplete does not mean they can not be expanded. I believe that a merge is only merited when the article themselves are not notable in seperate form, which is not the case in these two. What do you think? Thanks! Valoem talk 21:12, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

(ping User:Valoem): I'm fine with your reverts of the redirects. Per the discussion at Talk:Cuisine of the Americas, it appears that another user agrees with you in this instance. NorthAmerica1000 14:08, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Bachelor Griller

That article is very much a stub and it could do with a lot of improvement but I just tried to get it started. Is it in the US a common phrase, it is known as that in the UK a lot (actually the one on the pic I bought and lives in Hungary, as I do, but is made by a UK firm and deliberately apart from deliberately dirtying it up I hid the brand name etc by putting the lid down etc) and as far as I know there was never a "Bachelor" trademark or trading name but everyone knows them as Bachelor Grillers don't they? The links I look up on Google are about Americans doing barbecues, which of course is not the same thing. Si Trew (talk) 09:50, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

ping User:SimonTrew Thanks for creating the article. I have very slightly expanded it. It sounds like you're in Hungary; I'm in the U.S. and have never heard of the term until checking out the article. NorthAmerica1000 09:54, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, perhaps it is a primarily UK expression then. I should be inclined a little to merge it into toaster oven, but I am not sure they are quite the same thing, having looked at that article, the bachelor griller tends to be more versatile and has hobs and stuff. It is just a slang term for it and in fact my instruction leaflet calls it a "Mini Kitchen" so it could well maybe be moved or merged with a redirect from Bachelor Griller, I just made a start. The photo is quite disgusting I am quite ashamed of it but deliberately wanted to kinda portray the stereotype of a bachelor never cooking and never cleaning up. Even looking at it makes me want to get out the Brillo pads and stuff even though I cleaned it ten minutes after I took the photo. Si Trew (talk) 10:10, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I remember when I lived in Texas in about 2000-2002 there were infomercials for a small countertop cooker, a rotisserie essentially, by a chap Ron someone who was regarded as the king of infomercials "You just set it, and forget it" and all the audience would shout out "You just set it, and forget it". His masterpiece of advertising was because it got bloody hot at the top instead of saying "warning this gets bloody hot at the top" he said "You can even steam your vegetables on the top while cooking the chicken". That I don't know was a toaster oven, it was a little rotisserie with obvious danger that was always being advertised on the overnight infomercials, I tend to get kinda mesmerised and fascinated by those since I can't understand how anyone ever buys anything off them but patently they do, I am not saying the product is crap just that they advertise it every night on every channel and I tend to work at nights etc so I tend to kinda watch these things and I am just always amazed that even at cheap infomercial rates it is worth the ad to make the few sales for people who are up at 4 o'clock in the morning wanting to by a rotisserie (or cheap jewellery/jewelry or whatever). I just kinda get fascinated by them really. Si Trew (talk) 10:16, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew I'd hold off on a merge, because Toaster oven exists within a section of Toaster, and this is much more than a toaster. Regarding the rotisserie you mention above, it's the "Showtime Rotisserie Grill"; check out the Ronco article! (NorthAmerica1000 10:28, 6 March 2014 (UTC))
That's the fellow at Ronco, thanks for jogging my memory. I wasn't suggesting to merge as such, just asking your opinion. This seems a bit different from a toaster oven but I wondered if it could go in as a section. Si Trew (talk) 10:31, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Hey, an idea is to upload an image of the cleaned bachelor griller, perhaps shot from a different angle to show the sides of it, etc. This could be used in unison with the "dirty" griller image. NorthAmerica1000 10:28, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I will do that some time, unfortunately I don't actually have a proper cooker at the moment I have the space and sparks for it but we just are moving to Hungary and that is why I cook everything on the Bachelor Griller, so I will try to do so once it gets cleaned up. Lovely kitchen but no cooker in it. On the article, I have put "grill" instead of "broil" and that kind of thing, I don't know what is best done with that. I have no objection to U.S. English but if it is primarily a U.K. expression then it is best to keep it in British English, no? But would be better linked maybe and I would imagine grill goes to broil and so forth, you have Noam Webster to blame for that not me. Si Trew (talk) 11:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew British English in the article works for me. Just add "our" to everything (e.g. "favorite" to "favourite") (ha ha, just kidding) Face-smile.svg. NorthAmerica1000 11:22, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Hehe, joke taken. It is not very WP:WORLDWIDE though is it, so I guess the lede should say "In the United Kingdom, a B.G. is a" and so on. I don't know what wikt etc says and since as you guessed I have been moving to Hungary my proper dictionaries are all in transit so I can't look them up. There's no problem in it being a chiefly UK article but that it should be signposted as such if you, as an intelligent person with an interest in cooking and gadgets etc in the US, have never heard of it. I have met an Australian friend here (I have met lots of friends here but just for the sake of the English) so when I next see her I will ask her if it is a term in Australian English. Si Trew (talk) 11:34, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
We have had one running in the UK now for about 4 years for the X5 steam cleaner a little handheld steam cleaner. The really interesting thing with that one is it is obviously an American ad cos everything is in Fahrenheit so it gets up to "215 degrees" (but not 215 degrees Fahrenheit, just 215 degrees; 215 °C (419 °F) would hurt a lot), it does your "baseboards" (not "skirting boards") and your "drapes" (not "curtains") and so on. It is voiced by a British adman but the American company must have kinda told him to stick to the script exactly, don't change "baseboards" into "skirting boards" etc. I can watch that one for hours, with the "amazing power of steam" as if they were talking about the Flying Scotsman or something. Apparently according to the product reviews that product is crap, my little bachelor griller is actually quite good and I feel I have insulted it making it look so dirty on the pic I put at Commons, I have got a Sunday roast out of that twice with all the trimmings, it is quite good, I just get fascinated by these adverts. Si Trew (talk) 10:25, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew I'm a fan of both food and drink related topics, as well as those regarding gadgets, so I'm intrigued. NorthAmerica1000 10:31, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew Regarding a merge: Bachelor grillers have elements of both toaster ovens, hot plates and ovens, so I'm ultimately undecided at this time. If you're keen for a merge, toaster oven would probably be the best target. NorthAmerica1000 10:43, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew Here's an item that's similar (camp stove with oven), but for outdoor use here. Using an external link as nothing can be found on Wikipedia with coverage of this. NorthAmerica1000 10:57, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm not particularly keen for a merge, just taking WP:FEET (wot I and another editor wrote some years ago) and am not sure this merits its own article. With your consent, can you and I cut and paste this discussion into the discussion page of the article itself, then at least there is the history there? I created it because I was surprised there was not an article on it, as I said it is a common term in the UK and patently these objects exist as I have pictured one, so I doubt there would be any doubt about it, but just not sure what to do about it, whether it merits its own article. If you could cut and paste this discussion into the discussion at the article's talk page I think that would be a good reference for other editors. I can't strictly speaking cut it all out myself from your talk page since that is a bit naughty for one editor to cut content from another's talk page, but as long as it is over there I have no objection to you doing so. Si Trew (talk) 11:24, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── ping User:SimonTrew Interesting essay at WP:FEET, which goes along with your editing stance as delineated on your user page. I'd prefer to not copy all of this to the article talk page. Just boldly merging it to a subsection of Toaster oven in the Toaster article would suffice for me. NorthAmerica1000 11:31, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

There's a good example here at Argos, Argos (retailer)) which is a chain store in the United Kingdom a bit like Sears, Roebuck and Co used to do in the early days, you order stuff from a catalogue and it comes in cardboard boxes, and get it in store or delivered. (Argos used to have the longest print run in the UK at about 10 million copies of their catalogue every spring and autumn, and is kinda the Bible for working out whether someone is ripping you off, it is kinda the standard price and is this a good deal or bad deal, I can get it cheaper at Argos) although they are cutting it down a bit now cos everyone orders online etc.) That is a good example but I don't know how we could incorporate that because that image would be under copyright, but we could perhaps incorporate it as a reference, it is not particularly reliable source but better than nothing. Si Trew (talk) 11:41, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew I wouldn't use the link as a source nor the image in the article. It's an entirely commercial sales page, so the reliability is questionable even if used as a primary source. The only way an image from this website would work is if there was an article specifically about this particular oven. If this were the case, a small image would be permitted in such an article. Otherwise, it would be copyright infringement. By the way, regarding the Mini Oven with Hob: 1) I'll try to find sources using these types of terms 2) I want one. NorthAmerica1000 11:49, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew Some book coverage: [1] and [2]. NorthAmerica1000 11:55, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
(ec) I would take this also to WP:DYK, you not me cos you have done more work on the article than I have, but I would put as the strapline:
....that George Orwell used a [[[Bachelor Griller]]] in 1935?
With DYK they like the ho oks to be kinda very "hooky" to draw people in and I think that is a good one, by the way I have the Collected Essays and all of Orwell's works he is my favourite (or favorite!) author I just don't have them with me right now to do a paper check. Si Trew (talk) 11:57, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew I didn't consider DYK; seems possible. DYK articles need a minimum of 1,500 characters of prose, though. Here's another source from Yahoo Voices (user-generated content, so unusable as a reliable source): "Dorm Cooking: Multi-Tasking Kitchen Appliances for College Students". NorthAmerica1000 12:03, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
For the fact at DYK you just need the fact itself to be RS, which it patently is from the Collected Essays, the rest of the article does not have to be all RS and stuff this is not WP:GA but I think you should take it there, you have contributed a lot to it in having this discussion. I'll send you one! and I'll check those refs and try to add them but I am getting a lot of edit conflicts, sorry. Si Trew (talk) 12:10, 6 March 2014 (UTC
I'll check and add the refs. Can you stand off the article for half an hour or so while I do so we are not just accidentally in edit conflict? or do you want to take and add them? Si Trew (talk) 12:16, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew Absolutely, I'll stay off the article; have at it! Cheers, NorthAmerica1000 12:18, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew More book coverage: [3], [4] (portable ovens and hot plates), related content. NorthAmerica1000 13:01, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

:::You can bung in I have done the refs. Occasionally I would use the {{inuse}} tag but there is no need here because it is just thee and me so the only conflicts are between us two and I think by now we know we are both in good faith (knew it from the start but you know what I mean). Your turn to try to flesh it out a bit while I bum a fag (oh no sorry, borrow a cigarette). Si Trew (talk) 13:05, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Stet, stand off, I will add them. After doing so you probably need to scrub up the content a bit though Si Trew (talk) 13:07, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew Thanks for collaborating, which is increasingly rare to occur in real time on Wikipedia. FYI: I found the Bachelor griller article at WikiProject Food and drink's new article list, also located at Wikipedia:WikiProject Food and drink/Showcase/NA. NorthAmerica1000 13:11, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
It's what it's about isn't it, working together to make an encyclopaedia better? Just stand off so that I get the last of your references in and then it is your turn to scrub up the content, it is somewhat kinda wry and not suited to WP style but I am sure with the references there you can add some better words so I just threw them in as placeholders esssentially. Si Trew (talk) 13:19, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Rather than copying and pasting this discussion to the article's talk page, I have reverted that there and in place added a link there to this discussion. This discussion is not entirely about the topic, so it's more appropriate to link to here, rather than vice-versa by copying. It's also easier to have this discussion here, rather than in two places. NorthAmerica1000 14:06, 6 March 2014 (UTC) ht i

That's OK as long as you keep it here but you can do what you want on your user talk page so I thought it was better there. Bummed my fag and your turn on the article we should have it done soon and then you can take it to DYK with the Orwell fact. I made a couple of changes but I really don't know how to flesh it out more. I am an electrical engineer amongst other things and can tell you they are at usually 1200kW and the elements are 400kW each and so on, it probably escaped your notice that while the griller is in Hungary I have put in all British sockets hey ho and actually I added at the dab at sparks a link to electrician, the things we do for the love of Wikipedia eh. Si Trew (talk) 14:16, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
One thing that is great about the U.S. is in every gas station or convenience store there is a "give one, take one" pot and if you have a few pennies or dimes you give in, and if you don't occasionally you take back. American people contribute more by percentage to charity than any other country on the planet. But it is just what I try to do, you take a bit out (read an article) you give a bit back (contribute an article or an addition to it). It is great working you and I together to scrub this up, it has made my day, honestly. Si Trew (talk) 14:21, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia says I ave a talkback but I don't see it unless it was you striking out my comment. I think on the whole this should go to Mini oven as primary but keep the R... what do you think? But before doing so it is worth taking to DYK. John Maynard Keynes famously was asked in an interview, "So you are wrong then?" "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?" Si Trew (talk) 14:41, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I've added a redirect at Mini oven to this article. I am not minded to add one from Mini kitchen quite yet, but actually probably the article should stand at Mini oven and have Bachelor griller as a redirect thenceto. It is because you have done your homework (this is respect but may not seem so in writing) that it is more commonly called that worldwide, so there we go let's get it sorted together! But you can't put it on DYK as Mini Oven when Orwell calls it a Bachelor Griller, so I would stand off moving it before you list it DYK. But it seems to me that if WORLDWIDE calls these things a "mini oven" that is where it should stand. Si Trew (talk) 14:49, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

(ping User:SimonTrew) I need more time to respond to all of this directly above. But as a sidenote, check out Take a penny, leave a penny. NorthAmerica1000 15:01, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, have a search for Steadystat could you. All I get from Google and Bing is links back to here for Steady-state theory etc but it is essentially the pot and a bimetallic strip on the back, this is how they are known to sparks for pot controllers on the back of a cooker but cos I have Hungarian Google and Hungarian Bing and they are not known as that over here and so my searches kinda get misdirected. Si Trew (talk) 15:11, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
The thing is they are not actually very good for making toast, since the heating elements are a bit too high and the racks too low actually for making that. (I have a good old-fashioned Dualit toaster for that which cost twice as much as the bachelor griller). I am trying to search around to try to find a WP:DICDEF, it does not exist at Wiktionary, but as you can see these things have a long etymology – I probably get different targeted search results from you (I got one from a Hungarian electrical store but following it up it was just microwave ovens, I actually bought the one pictured in Máglod from Auchan so I don't think they are very common outside the United Kingdom and are perhaps rather a British thing, but they are quite handy really). So although I would be inclined in a way to merge it into toaster oven, I think in a way they are so different that would be misleading. I think, on balance, it is best kept as a separate article, though perhaps should reverse the redirect from mini oven but since all your references and mine are to a bachelor griller that can be sorted out later. I don't get any search results for steadystat but I think that is a fairly common term in the U.K. for those kind of knobs, again, being in Hungary, the search engines tend to fox me and give me different results and of course it would not be called that here in Hungary, and looking up e.g. or which I imagine sell plenty of steadystats gets me nowhere (well it gets me to pages selling microwave ovens). I also tried "bachelor griller" both in English and Hungarian, on a Hungarian electrical supplier's website and that just got me microwave ovens. That might be useful to the article as such if these engines assume a bachelor just wants to heat stuff up in a microwave oven (by the way, in my slang a microwave oven is called a "ping", because that of course is the sound of the bell when it has finished, so people just say "ping it", or "stick it in the ping", but I am not sure if that is worth adding to that article as a side remark). Si Trew (talk) 10:47, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I hate you (not really). Now I mentioned that I checked the article at Dualit to find it was a bit lacking, so I uploaded a pic at (on Commons) only find that they were called by Bill Deedes "kitchen porn". They are pricey little buggers but they last forever so in the long run they are worth getting rather than forever having toasters break down on you – I first shared one in halls of residence because students were constantly breaking the toasters so they just thought it would be more economical in the long run to get Dualits that are almost unbreakable, and very cheap and easy to fix. Si Trew (talk) 11:07, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── ping User:SimonTrew Update #1: Not getting many results for Steadystat at Google Books [5]. Basically just passing mentions (e.g. [6], [7]). NorthAmerica1000 11:58, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, perhaps it again is just a jargon word, I shall ask my uncle and brother at some time both of whom (as I am) are qualified sparks (electricians) in the UK and we always call them that. I couldn't find it at all. You might like to cast your eye over Dualit if you are around, I've done some reference improvements but again, it could do with some copy filling and a second set of eyes. Si Trew (talk) 12:06, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Also the Auchan sells what I would call a "combination oven" but Wikipedia calls a "Convection microwave oven", do you think it is worth creating the redirect to that? I should be inclined to but on the other hand the search engine brings it up at the first hit. Redirects are cheap, so that is not the problem, it is only if you thought it got in the way of something else. Ideally of course one would have a combination oven and bachelor griller in the same unit, but I guess just technically that is not possible (a microwave oven has to act as a kinda Faraday cage and you get all of these untrue stories of people having heart attacks from the dangerous microwave radiation etc, they tend to report these stories to the local press on their mobile phones that use, er, microwave radiation, but there we go if you could get into people's heads what the Inverse-square law meant then you might get somewhere but of course that is impossible). So obviously a bachelor griller can't kinda also be a microwave oven because one of its necessary features is the door opening at the front so that you can have a looksie at your delicacies while they are cooking etc and that is incompatible with it being a Faraday cage, I would imagine. 12:21, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
The ref from the IEEE (now the Institution of Engineering and Technology, of which I am a chartered member just declaring an interest there not showing off) is to "steady-state" and that is kinda all that I ever found, results to "steady-state". The other one, the online is so small I can't really read it but I imagine it would also say "steady-state" or "steady state". Perhaps it is just a jargon word, then. Si Trew (talk) 12:29, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I found and added this to Dualit:
 – NorthAmerica1000 16:34, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


ping User:SimonTrew I noticed your disappointment with source formatting in some of your edit summary comments. Seriously consider installing and trying out ProveIt GT. It's easy to install using your gadgets page (see How to install) and makes sourcing articles very easy to perform. The program has a pull down menu at top when you use it to choose between different citation templates (e.g. Web, Book, etc.). I've been using it for over a year with no problems whatsoever. NorthAmerica1000 13:08, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I am just old-fashioned, not just on Wikipedia but in real life too, so I can't get along with these new tools. I just do things the slow long-handed way if that is all right with you. Si Trew (talk) 13:23, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't even know where the gadgets page is... I just do longhand and that suits me. Sorry for being slow, but I think if people (I don't mean you) took a bit more time to think rather than use all these quick buttons then the encyclop(a)edia, and life generally, would be a bit better. It is OK to sometimes slow down, relax and consider things rather than just hit any button in front of you. I don't mean you, of course, but half of the harm caused by new editors at it is that they don't stop and think and just hit a button that does it all for them, and does it all wrongly, so that good editors like you and I end up tidying it up and that requires thought and care, not just hitting a button and throwing in raw URLs (most of the refs at the Dualit article were just raw URLs), you might think I didn't check up the sources but I did, and added page references, and that requires work. Cornelius Vermuyden's family motto is Dutch: Niet zonder arbeit, "Nothing without work", and that is the motto of my local council in the UK because he drained The Fens after being invited over by the then Duke of Bedford. Nothing without work. Not a tool that can cock it all up so that others have to go around making it better, afterwards. Si Trew (talk) 13:32, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
ping User:SimonTrew N.B. To get to your gadgets page, when you're logged in click on "Preferences" at the top right corner of the screen, then on that page, select the "Gadgets" tab. It doesn't sound like you're interested in Provelt, but I still recommend it. Also, it still takes work to fill in the fields when using the tool...NorthAmerica1000 14:03, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I told you I am old-fashioned. I don't have any of those gadgets. I just make a bit of grub on my bachelor griller from scratch. But I just got a new fridge today, but I am just letting the wossname the refrigerant in the back of it sort itself out before I stick it under the counter in the beautiful kitchen that me and the missus made from scratch. Sorry I am so old-fashioned. Si Trew (talk) 14:08, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
The kind of thing I am on about is now Wikipedia has two messages, from you (this is not your fault) telling me to look at those messages, which I already have looked at and you have replied to. To me, that is a backwards step for the MetaWiki people to do that, since if for example you are translating Hungarian or French to English it requires concentration and it requires work and that kind of thing gets in the way but these days oh we have to have instant this and instant that, well I would like to turn it off and maybe make a decent article without all the interuptions. I don't mean you, but there was a time you would respond to someone the following day or maybe even the following week. I've just translated an article on Wednesday Olivier Charbonneau that I started six months ago and unfortunately left high and dry. It doesn't have to be done instantly and the way WP pesters me now with you have a new message etc I just am sometimes inclined just to abandon it completely, I don't want to be pestered, I just want to make the encyclopaedia better, Si Trew (talk) 14:15, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Per your query at the help desk, it appears there's a notifications shutoff in preferences. I'll stop linking your user name here to ping too. (You have been quite nice in "checking back", so no need to ping.) Otherwise, I use the ping feature when I reply to comments here, to ensure I'm typing something that will actually be seen by those who I reply to. Feel free to discuss articles for collaboration, etc. here anytime, and happy editing. NorthAmerica1000 15:25, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, reading back it probably sounded like I was having a go at you personally, which certainly is not the case: more having a go at everyone having to be in a hurry these days (they should all move to Hungary where life goes a little slower :)). I'll check those refs for the Dualit, thanks for having a look over the article. Hope you liked the pic, I think it makes the article a bit better (presumably all other pics were COPYVIO etc) Si Trew (talk) 02:35, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

More electric kitchen appliance and gadget articles

A panini grill

ping User:SimonTrew Feel free to collaborate to improve these articles too. NorthAmerica1000 14:00, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I'll have a look tomorrow and see what I can do. It's Friday afternoon, may I relax? Si Trew (talk) 14:18, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Relax and enjoy your evening! Stop by anytime, and cheers, NorthAmerica1000 14:20, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Dec-Jan AFC backlog drive.

Greetings, Northamerica1000! I was directed here by Mdann52; I'm inquiring about the awards distribution for the December 2013-January 2014 AFC backlog drive. Specifically, I wanted to ask about why I did not receive an award for my submissions. Was there something wrong with them, or was I overlooked? I'll make note that the latter has happened before; it's some technological thing I'm not too extensively informed on. As you’ll see, I’ve added some shortening to my sig! (talk) 00:45, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

 Done. For whatever reason, your submission count page was not listed on the drive page here or here, from which the award lists were created. I've sent the award, and thanks for contributing to the December 2013 - January 2014 Backlog Elimination Drive! NorthAmerica1000 02:51, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
(ping User:Wilhelmina Will): Also, for historical purposes, I have updated the December-January drive page with your information (diff page). NorthAmerica1000 02:56, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

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Resolved. NorthAmerica1000 13:33, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


I don't believe that you should have closed this one as no consensus. The last person to post said only a few days ago they they wished to have greater input. Would you mind reverting yourself? The result may be the same but I think it had longer to run. Thanks, Philafrenzy (talk) 23:22, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

(ping) User:Philafrenzy:  Done. Of note is that I closed the discussion as no consensus due to a lack of participation in the discussion after two relistings with no prejudice against speedy renomination. The discussion has run for 27 days, and the last post was on 5 March 2014, which is five days ago, (as opposed to a few days ago). However, per your request, the discussion has been reopened and the AfD template placed back atop the article. I won't relist this again, per WP:RELIST, where it states, "Relisting debates repeatedly in the hope of getting sufficient participation is not recommended, and while having a deletion notice on a page is not harmful, its presence over several weeks can become disheartening for its editors. Therefore, in general, debates should not be relisted more than twice." NorthAmerica1000 00:25, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
I noted the relistings, however, the debate had just come to life a bit. I see it has had a further comment in fact since reopened. I don't see the no prejudice comment in the diffs. Thanks for reopening it anyway. I believe this should now be an admin closure when it does close. Philafrenzy (talk) 03:10, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
(ping) User:Philafrenzy: We'll see how it goes from here. Also, the no prejudice part was included in the close itself in parentheses (see diff). NorthAmerica1000 04:13, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
N.B. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Koimoi was closed by another user as no consensus. NorthAmerica1000 13:34, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Hare and Billet

This week's article for improvement (week 13, 2014)


The knee of a patient is examined with help of radiography after an injury.

Hello, Northamerica1000.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:


Previous selections: Assassination of Anwar Sadat • Rare breed (agriculture)

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The Signpost: 12 March 2014

Regarding North Creek Trail

Thanks for adding references so that the article didn't get deleted. I'll look in to expanding it when I have time! --Teknoeric — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teknoeric (talkcontribs) 05:44, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

(ping User:Teknoeric): Sure thing, and happy editing! NorthAmerica1000 06:15, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Prepared foods infobox cookbook link

Hello, my friend. Please have a look at: User talk:Anna Frodesiak#Link redirection not working help needed

Many thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:06, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

N.b. - replied there. NorthAmerica1000 06:36, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Your submission at AfC Jandwala was accepted

Jandwala, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

Kevin Rutherford (talk) 04:10, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks User:Ktr101: Since I resubmitted this under the original creator's user name, thank you for providing them with this same notice at User talk:Munnajaglan, which is much more important. NorthAmerica1000 04:17, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Odd, as I thought I tagged the article creator in that one. Thanks for notifying them, though! Kevin Rutherford (talk) 04:31, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
User:Ktr101: After first resubmitting providing their credit, when I then accepted using the AfC helper script, the notice was automatically provided on the creator's talk page. A nice feature. NorthAmerica1000 04:39, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

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Resolved. NorthAmerica1000 19:45, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Yellow rice

I was surprised that this isn't covered? What do you think? Candleabracadabra (talk) 03:30, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Golden rice (right) compared to white rice
(ping User:Candleabracadabra): Undecided about creating a new article about this topic at this time, because yellow rice typically just involves the addition of spices as a colorant to white rice (e.g. [8], [9]). There are also articles already existent for Golden rice, Saffron rice and Paella. NorthAmerica1000 06:14, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Isn't yellow rice a traditional dish in Cuban cuisine? Candleabracadabra (talk) 13:16, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
(ping User:Candleabracadabra): Not sure. Yellow rice is mentioned in the Cuban cuisine article, but not much there substantiating the notion of it being a traditional dish. I recommend using a Google Books search to research this notion. NorthAmerica1000 12:40, 16 March 2014 (UTC)


Thanks for creating the new article! NorthAmerica1000 13:30, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your help with the article. I think it's off to a decent start. I wasn't sure what yellow rice was, so I think it's reasonable to believe others will find the information helpful. Thanks again. Have a happy every day. Candleabracadabra (talk) 17:31, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Update: I found and listed this source in the article:

 – NorthAmerica1000 01:58, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Cool! Thanks. And I appreciated your edits re: tumeric, I believe it was. Could you list La Teresita at ARS for me? I tried to write it up based on what was in the sources (and it's covered in books as well as print publications) but the wording is coming off to others as promotional. Thanks for any assistance you can provide. Take care and have fun. Candleabracadabra (talk) 02:17, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
  • User:Candleabracadabra Thanks. Regarding listing La Teresita at the rescue list, please do so yourself. Anyone can do so. I tend to shy away from listing there per requests from others to do so. Happy editing! NorthAmerica1000 03:34, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I will give it a shot, but I have trouble with the formatting. 12:46, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Jandwala Bagar

Hi there, It is to your great credit that you have helped out with the Jandwala Bagar page. So, many thanks! But we have to be careful to not stray into the realm of original research. The Tribune story says, "After enquiring about the welfare of the villagers and condition of their crops and cattle, Mr Chautala asked them whether the authorities had been providing proper amenities to them." To infer anything from that other than what Mr. Chautala said is original research. So, while we can certainly say, "Mr. Chautala on a visit to the village enquired after the villagers' crops and cattle," we can't make the inference, "Some residents in Jandwala Bagar are involved in agricultural crop production and cattle ranching." Wikipedia rules are very clear about that. Thanks for your effort. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:30, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:Fowler&fowler: If the villagers were asked about their crops and cattle and this is reported in a RS, it's reasonable to assume that crops and cattle were existent in the region. To better reflect this, I have rewritten the sentence in the article as follows:
"In a September 2004 visit to Jandwala Bagar, Haryana Chief Minister Om Prakash Chautala asked villagers about their general welfare and about the state of their cattle and crops.[1]"
  1. ^ "Chautala begins tour of Fatehabad". The Tribune. September 5, 2004. Retrieved 17 March 2014. 
 – NorthAmerica1000 22:42, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm afraid it is not. The minister is not an agricultural scientist writing in a secondary source. Also, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:15, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Below is info. about the reliability of The Tribune, from [10]. NorthAmerica1000 12:54, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Great work! I found something in a Gazetteer as well, the Hisar District Gazetteer, 1987. Jandwala use to be in Hisar district up until recently. In 1987, it was in Fatehabad Tahsil (Sub-District). Now Fatehabad is a full-fledged district. Here is the reference to Jandwala: "Ram Dev Pir is another saint whose worship is very much prevalent in the district. Ram Dev is considered incarnation of Krishna and many miracles are associated with him. He is known to have given life to the dead, sight to the blind, sound body to the lepers, and children to barren women. Saints from Mecca, deeply impressed by his super-natural powers, honoured him with the title of Pir. The Pir hails from Rajasthan and a shrine exists at Unicha in Rajasthan. The devotees of the Pir who are mostly persons migrated from Rajasthan have built shrines of Ram Dev at Jandwala, Ban Madori, Bhood ya Khera, Badopal, Dhaulu (Fatehabad tahsil) ..." page 51 of the Hisar District Gazetteer, 1987. That's probably another sentence of sourced material. You'll have to leave out the less believable parts of the quote. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:54, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

AFCH review

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Grilled Cheese Truck DGG ( talk ) 22:09, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification. NorthAmerica1000 22:11, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Brandon Mendelson AfD

Thanks for relisting the Brandon Mendelson AfD. That was a cleanup task I picked up from the COI noticeboard. It raised a policy question - are people "famous fo being famous", due to heavy self-promotion efforts, notable for Wikipedia purposes? Opinion seems to be roughly evenly split on this. I started a discussion at Wikipedia Talk:Notability (people)#Twitter notability, or famous for being famous. on this topic. It would be helpful to have a consensus, so we know how to handle self-promotion / COI issues. Any ideas on this? --John Nagle (talk) 21:07, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:Nagle: Interesting discussion occurring there at Wikipedia Talk:Notability (people). I'm a little busy working on other stuff, but if I have something to add I'll comment at the discussion. Thanks for the notification. NorthAmerica1000 00:02, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

1921–22 famine in Tatarstan

Can you revert your closure and let the afd run? There seems to be a merited reason to merge the article, or redirect it. The content was sourced only to one tertiary source (an encyclopedia, which is to be avoided). Someone has added more sources now, but don't seem to be the most reliable. (talk) 00:12, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

 Done. Note that in the close I performed I did state "There's a distinct possibility of a merge to Russian famine of 1921, which can be further discussed on an article talk page." (diff page.) Regardless, we'll see how the discussion goes from this point onward. NorthAmerica1000 01:02, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Thank you so much for the courtesy of all your openings and status quo ante. (double ec) Sometimes I see a closure of redirect or merge though? (talk) 01:07, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
N.b. I have relisted the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2014 March 22. NorthAmerica1000 01:08, 23 March 2014 (UTC)


you dont have email. :( Zeddocument (talk) 12:35, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:Zeddocument: yes, I prefer to communicate on-wiki. NorthAmerica1000 01:13, 23 March 2014 (UTC)


TBA Zeddocument (talk)

The Signpost: 19 March 2014


Hi. I've seen you around AfD a lot. You seem to be pretty clueful and willing to delve into the administrative aspects of this encyclopedia thing we're writing. We need more of that. Have you given any thought to being a sysop? I'd be happy to nominate you. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:24, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:RoySmith: Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to pass at this time. I ran once before (see my RfA), but it closed as unsuccessful. At the time I didn't plan ahead on becoming an admin, and just went for it (went in cold). I gave it a try per the suggestion of another user who nominated me (after I agreed to the nomination, of course). I'd prefer to plan ahead before going a second round. However, if I do so, could I keep you in mind as a future nominator? NorthAmerica1000 23:43, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
That's a bummer about the first attempt. Hope you do better the next time. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:36, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi User:RoySmith: I don't perceive the discourse there as a bummer. At the time, I gained some insights about how to improve from some of the commentary there that was constructive. Also, it was 16 months ago. For what it's worth, since that time I've performed a whole lot more work in areas of deletion (e.g. see my log pages atop this talk page). NorthAmerica1000 01:51, 24 March 2014 (UTC)


Hi NorthAmerica1000,

E. Phillips Fox Harvesting

A very belated thanks for your Happy New Year message. It's very cheerful at the top of my talk page for this year.

Happy Autumn from Down Under! (talk) 03:05, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Thanks very much, and for the work you do to improve the encyclopedia. NorthAmerica1000 03:14, 24 March 2014 (UTC)


(Note to self): Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/RESTful API Modeling Language and Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Usarid. NorthAmerica1000 03:17, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Principal Speaker

User:Necrothesp: Per your comments at the following AfD's (1, 2, 3, 4) stating "You need to look at Principal Speaker", I have done so, but rather than responding at each AfD individually, please clarify how this relates to the discussions. Do you feel that this correlates with WP:POLITICIAN? NorthAmerica1000 13:32, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

No, my point was that you said the Green Party article doesn't mention them. I was pointing out that they are mentioned in the appropriate article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:34, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying. Yes, the subjects are listed in Principal Speaker in a table. I need more time to consider this matter. NorthAmerica1000 13:37, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Uncontested PROD?

Um... oh... was going to leave a note asking why you didn't just treat this as an uncontested PROD and delete it. Then I realised why that might not have been possible. So instead I'm just going to endorse the comments from those earlier encouraging consideration of another RFA at some stage. Feel free to ignore my note in the second AFD which was on the same basis. Cheers, Stalwart111 03:35, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

User: Stalwart111: I updated the close with (WP:NPASR), (which was intended to be there when closed). Thanks for the kind words. NorthAmerica1000 04:10, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Which is exactly what happened - the system works! Ha ha. All good, keep up the good work. Stalwart111 04:34, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Fuel management systems

User:Stalwart111: Thanks for finding this article, which I didn't see when looking around. Based upon your find, I have now !voted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fuel oil management system. NorthAmerica1000 13:44, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Thumbs up. Took me a while to find it in the first place in a "see also" list of a related article. A good fit I think. Stalwart111 14:06, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

GOCE March drive wrapup

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GOCE February blitz wrapup

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Participation: Out of seven people who signed up for this blitz, all copy-edited at least one article. Thanks to all who participated! Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

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Disambiguation link notification for March 25

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Lists of hotels, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Union Hotel (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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YesY N.b. it is intended for the disambiguation page to be linked in this instance. NorthAmerica1000 15:12, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Striking of a !vote in an AfD

Hi, Northamerica1000... you recently struck a !vote in this AfD. I can't see the double !vote from Dsimic (talk · contribs). Are you implying they are a sock of Crines (talk · contribs) or Usarid (talk · contribs)? Storkk (talk) 14:18, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Hm, I was wondering why my vote was stroked out, but didn't want to make a fuss about it as it isn't such a big deal. By the way, I'm nobody's sock puppet – why would I be? I just don't like to see new articles quickly deleted whenever there's even only a slight possibility to keep them; that's how I helped saving the Laravel (framework) article, for example. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 14:50, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi User:Dsimic and User:Storkk: Very sorry about the typo, and I have corrected the matter at the discussion. No, no implication of Dsimic being a sock from the typo. Thanks for letting me know about this matter. NorthAmerica1000 15:00, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello there! No worries and thank you, it wasn't a big deal anyway. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 15:06, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
User:Dsimic: I view it as significant because your !vote is valid and your opinion matters. I'm glad this was brought to my attention. NorthAmerica1000 15:10, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 15:15, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the Barnstar!

Thanks for the barnstar! :)

I was also wondering if you could take another look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Plums in chocolate, user Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus blatantly disregarded WP:PRESERVE, which brought me into the discussion, Candleabracadabra and I have added some sources that might change your decision. Valoem talk 16:58, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:Valoem: Thanks for the reply and information. NorthAmerica1000 17:02, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks much

Thank you for your help at WP:BACON, much appreciated, — Cirt (talk) 18:12, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:Cirt: Thanks. I performed some minor layout and updating edits, but they make a difference, imo. NorthAmerica1000 18:14, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
Agreed, thank you, — Cirt (talk) 18:16, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


User:Dougweller deleted Akber Choudhry. NorthAmerica1000 19:14, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Hopefully Akber will get in touch with you. He's unhappy about his name being a redirect and would have preferred the article on him to be deleted. He doesn't mind being quoted in the target, but feels his relationship with the target article was so brief he shouldn't be a redirect. Dougweller (talk) 17:16, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:Dougweller: Per the Revision history for Khatme Nubuwwat Academy, the merge was apparently already performed, and due to attribution rules per Wikipedia's licensing, attribution is required for copyright. A history merge is a potential option, although due to the lengthy Revision history of the Akber Choudhry article going back to January 2011, it may not be possible to be performed. NorthAmerica1000 17:29, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Request for deletion

I believe you have redirected the page 'Akber Choudhry' to Khatm-e-Nubuwwat Academy. Could you please delete the page 'Akber Choudhry'. It was an unauthorized page and contained some important links regarding a controversy in 2010. However the Khatm-e-Nubuwwat page was slowly whittled down by peaceworld111 and co. and with the merge, most of that stuff had been lost and the merge was sub-par. I was only informed of this today so I could not take part in the deletion discussion, and I would have advocated deleting the page named for me.

I have copied all the references over and tried to make the KNA page as NPOV as possible. It has a 'disputed' tag from 2011 and please take that off as well if you deem that it is now NPOV. I have not been active on Wikipedia for 8 years or so, and I will watch out for any future 'slow vandalism'.

I also created a section in Let me know if that was not the right place and I will remove it or edit it, or if it can be marked as resolved.

Thank you very much.

Akber Choudhry 18:48, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:Akberc: I'm not a Wikipedia administrator, so I cannot delete pages. Please read the information above regarding attribution within Wikipedia. It may be necessary for the redirect to stay in place due to attribution rules on Wikipedia.
However, per WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE, it seems possible for an administrator to delete the Akber Choudhry page despite attribution rules, since the deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Akber Choudhry was closed as a merge to Khatme Nubuwwat Academy. At WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE, it states "Poorly sourced biographical articles of unknown, non-public figures, where the discussions have no editor opposing the deletion, may be deleted after discussions have been completed." Technically, no editor at the AfD discussion directly opposed deletion, as both respondents to the discussion posted merge !votes. I'm going to notify User:Dougweller about this discussion because 1) he commented about this matter above, and 2) he is a Wikipedia administrator. NorthAmerica1000 19:01, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks very much for this and I've now deleted it and mentioned this at BLPN. This seems a reasonable solution. Dougweller (talk) 19:09, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for addressing the matter. NorthAmerica1000 19:19, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
Thank you both.

Akber Choudhry 08:55, 26 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akberc (talkcontribs)


I've userfied it at User:Northamerica1000/Cellphone spying! Let me know if there are any other pages that you want as well. Tokyogirl79 (。◕‿◕。) 07:10, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

User:Tokyogirl79: thanks very much. I had moved this from the previous Cellphone spying software article, and noticed that it disappeared. I'll send you a link after it's all reworked. Cheers, NorthAmerica1000 07:22, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I've deleted the redirect just for maintenance, but you can recreate it once it's done. I was going to leave it but I wasn't sure how long the editing would take. I know sometimes I can knock articles out in about 20-30 minutes, other times it takes a few days. Tokyogirl79 (。◕‿◕。) 07:26, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
No problem, and I'll be in touch when it's republished. NorthAmerica1000 07:29, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi Northamerica1000. Hope you don't mind, several socks from Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/ are in this draft article's history, so that's what caused me to notice and add the no-index tag. Best regards, - LuckyLouie (talk) 20:01, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Information icon Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give User:Northamerica1000/Cellphone spying a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into Cellphone surveillance. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page (the tab may be hidden in a dropdown menu for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Cut-and-paste-move repair holding pen. Thank you. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 22:01, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:JamesBWatson: It may be more functional to not attribute in this case, because while I used data in the draft at User:Northamerica1000/Cellphone spying to rework information on the topic, the new article published at Cellphone surveillance has been entirely rewritten and reformatted. I'm well aware of attribution requirements on Wikipedia and its importance. However I worry, because if a hist merge is performed, then that leaves the new article open for deletion again per being originally created by a sock. Again, it's an entirely rewritten, new submission. Please provide your advice and opinion regarding this matter. Also pinging/notifying User:Tokyogirl79 about this matter. NorthAmerica1000 22:14, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
I see that the hist merge has been done per the Revision history page for Cellphone surveillance. Will the hist merge affect the article in terms of being qualified for deletion again? I sure hope not, because this would make all the work I did as a complete waste of time and energy. NorthAmerica1000 22:43, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
  1. It does not "leave the new article open for deletion again per being originally created by a sock", because the relevant speedy deletion criterion is "Pages created by banned or blocked users in violation of their ban or block, and which have no substantial edits by others. (My emphasis.) That clearly does not apply in this case.
  2. While the article has been substantially rewritten, it still incorporates contents from the older version. For example, much of the section "Cellphone spying software" is the same. There is no option of its being "more functional to not attribute", because when Wikipedia accepts content from any editor, Wikipedia's terms of use guarantee that any reuse will be attributed, and breaching that undertaking is a copyright infringement. Copyright is not just a matter of Wikipedia guidelines or policies: it is the law, and complying with the law is not optional.
  3. My own preference in a case like this is to delete the original article, and allow any new version of it to be created from scratch, which avoids all these issues. However, that was not done, and content from the original article has made it through into the new one. That being so, copy-pasting the article without attribution is absolutely not an option. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 15:18, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
YesY User:JamesBWatson: Aah, all I had to do was read WP:G5. Everything should be fine. I'm actually familiar with all the speedy criteria, but it slipped my mind to check them in relation to this article. Indeed, the Cellphone spying software section in the present version does have some close paraphrasing of content from this version of the article that was in the lead. (I forgot that I had moved the content from the lead to a section). Thank you for the reply and for caring about Wikipedia's editor concerns with your thoughtful and comprehensive reply regarding this matter. NorthAmerica1000 16:44, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 March 2014