User talk:ZiaLater

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Some baklava for you![edit]

Baklava - Turkish special, 80-ply.JPEG Nice work on Economy of Venezuela. bobrayner (talk) 18:29, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Would you consider improving some other, related articles? Let me know if you need help with anything. bobrayner (talk) 16:52, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the welcome! I just learned how to use the talk board so I'm sorry for the tardy response.

Thank you, --ZiaLater (talk) 01:01, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For your outstanding work in the 2014 Venezuelan Protests article. Jamez42 (talk) 02:42, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Since the start of the 2014 Venezuelan protests, you have tirelessly helped to improve its article, have done a marvelous work and made over 800 edits (and counting!). I reward you with this barnstar two months after the Youth Day in Venezuela. Congratulations, you deserve it!. --Jamez42 (talk) 02:49, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

My first barnstar! Thank you for your help on the article too Jamez42. All of those pictures were needed in the article. Stay safe!
Thank you!--ZiaLater (talk) 02:52, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
You're welcome, you really deserve it :) I'll try to keep helping with the article too, stay safe too!--Jamez42 (talk) 03:02, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Leopoldo Lopez[edit]

I recently noticed an egregious BLP violation on the Czech page of Leopoldo López found here. The content violates Wikipedia's BLP policy and the source they are using is far from reliable. I tried fixing it but I was quickly reverted. Do you think you could help me out in trying to remove this information? I noticed you contributed significantly to Leopoldo Lopez's English page so I decided to come to you for help. Thank you in advance! Hope to hear back soon. 66.215.147.124 (talk) 23:50, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I can take a look but I have to warn you about canvassing. I will add information about him to the page since there isn't much.--ZiaLater (talk) 00:59, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Venezuelan protests[edit]

Hi, I see that you are working at the "2014 Venezuelan protests" page with a focus on cooperation and a non-confrontational approach. Good for that. Are you pro-oposition or chavista? Or neither? I wish I could contribute more to the page but the article is very big, and I like to focus more on elections than anything else. --yeah_93 (talk) 17:53, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to the article! The article has had a lot of disputes so I try to keep things as neutral as possible. I see benefits from both positions. I have a lot of sources from what people claim are "opposition sources" but most of those sources are just for the timeline. In the case of Chavez, he did a lot of good things for the people but a lot of things went wrong during his presidency too. We're human and we aren't perfect. Enough of my spiel...
If you want to contribute to elections just look at the elections section in the article. It could use a little more if you compare it to the economic section. If you want to broaden your use of sources I suggest that you use Google Chrome as it will roughly translate what is said in Spanish sources. If you want to focus on more elections in Venezuela, I suggest that you look at the Hugo Chavez article since it seems like a lot of stuff is missing there. Again, welcome to the article and if you need any more help just ask!--ZiaLater (talk) 19:34, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Attention[edit]

Something in which you might be interested is being discussed here. This is a blanket alert given to multiple editors, a response is not needed. DocumentError (talk) 05:45, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

I responded, thank you for the alert.--ZiaLater (talk) 08:18, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Barnstar[edit]

SpecialBarnstar.png The Special Barnstar
for good-natured, congenial and polite interaction in an article that otherwise completely lacks it DocumentError (talk) 08:19, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Forgot to reply to this @DocumentError:. Thank you for the Barnstar and for your contributions as well! I just tried to make things run as smoothly as possible.--ZiaLater (talk) 04:21, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about Riothero.com[edit]

Hello, ZiaLater,

I wanted to let you know that there's a discussion about whether Riothero.com should be deleted. Your comments are welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Riothero.com .

If you're new to the process, articles for deletion is a group discussion (not a vote!) that usually lasts seven days. If you need it, there is a guide on how to contribute. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.

Thanks, Vanjagenije (talk) 17:37, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Leopoldo Lopez[edit]

Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For your outstanding work on Leopoldo López.DaltonCastle (talk) 18:49, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the barnstar and thanks for the cooperating on the article (you saved me a little bit of work)!--ZiaLater (talk) 23:05, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Potential Conflict of interest[edit]

Zia, wanted to ask your opinion on this first. User: Riothero is very active on Venezuelan pages with a clear bias. I noticed your page for Riothero.com which led me to that actual site: which also has a very clear bias. Its almost certain the same person runs both the site and the Wikipedia account. Is this worth bringing up on the COI noticeboard? I understand any user may have certain biases, but this is a pretty big one. DaltonCastle (talk) 19:23, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I thought about raising the same issue. It is a serious concern, due to the nature of the editing. bobrayner (talk) 22:15, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
@DaltonCastle:,@Bobrayner:, I am not sure about noticeboard activities, so taking any action would be up to you both. It is interesting because I asked him on his talk page about the relation but he deleted it. I do not want to be accused of anything in my edits so I will not create a notice on Riothero, but since you both seem to know the policies more than me, the correct decision with any user is to make sure WP policies are not violated due to the interests of a single individual so you may do so. Feel free to discuss this with me further if more needs to be done to uphold such policies and if anything is needed for the COI noticeboard.--ZiaLater (talk) 23:01, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure whether WP:COIN is the best place to take this problem. COIN works relatively well with the most common type of COI editing - promoting specific businesses and musicians etc - but I feel it less effective dealing with cases where there is more general POV-pushing which just happens to be aligned with the interests of some prominent real-world ranter. Is there a better noticeboard, or is COIN the least-bad option?
  • The Neutral point of view noticeboard is good at dealing with individual NPOV issues but maybe less effective when they span ten pages and a hundred different edits. Third opinions have the same limitation.
  • DRN is more structured but it doesn't stop a determined editor.
  • RfC/U rarely generates more than empty accusations and counter-accusations which eventually die down without action.
  • AN/I is less rule-bound and has less predictable outcomes - that can be a plus or a minus.
  • Or maybe we could get some extra input from a wikiproject first? WikiProject Venezuela, maybe?
  • We also have the nuclear option, if everything else fails.
bobrayner (talk) 01:31, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
@DaltonCastle:,@Bobrayner:, the Neutral point of view noticeboard seems like the best option as there are multiple edits of POV on hand. The WikiProject Venezuela also sounds like a good idea, though I am not sure if we will get a response since I do not know how active the users are on the project.--ZiaLater (talk) 02:04, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Ok, im going to go ahead and put it up at the NPOV noticeboard. If you guys could watch the page and give me some support that would be great. DaltonCastle (talk) 03:48, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

@DaltonCastle:,@Bobrayner:, This link solves our question on if Riothero is of Riothero.com. I also find it funny how Riothero calls me a guy... (if he is directing comments at me).--ZiaLater (talk) 04:04, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Certainly interesting. But the consensus at the board I believe is that we would have to prove they are taking payment, or in some way are affiliated with the Venezuelan government. DaltonCastle (talk) 04:55, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

@DaltonCastle:I have also read that concerning COI, just keeping up with your concerns. I sometimes prefer users with an opinion to make sure things don't get out of hand, but I do not like the censorship of work. Unfortunately with Venezuelan topics, there are either the radical left who censor or the radical right who add nonsense without sources. I hope I don't have to explain that I am different and that I just have a new interest, but I'm sure you know how it goes... politics are ridiculous and not worth the hassle... --ZiaLater (talk) 05:35, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Trust me, I agree with you. I understand, and appreciate bias to a degree. But blanking pages is not ok. Hopefully we have drawn some attention to this user's actions. DaltonCastle (talk) 05:44, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

@DaltonCastle:I only wish for a free and fair Wikipedia where we can all work together. Hopefully this will bring more of an understanding between us users and we can build upon this.--ZiaLater (talk) 05:48, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Is anyone watching this article? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:13, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

@SandyGeorgia:I will take a look. Is there a reason given?--ZiaLater (talk) 07:24, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Nope. I've asked the editor twice to justify the POV tag-- no response. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:50, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks[edit]

Pizza pie.jpg Venezuelan Pizza award
Pizza Makers Association of Venezuela, we give you this humble small pizza for savor without sharing it with anyone, provided to continue creating articles about Venezuela for every pizza that you give away. Wilfredor (talk) 12:06, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for the pizza! Someone must have read that it is my favorite! :)--ZiaLater (talk) 22:14, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
I have finished translating the article Bolivarian diaspora, please, if you have a list of articles you've created about Venezuela in English, please send it to me here, I'll start the translation at this time. Enormously grateful for the work you're doing. Please be careful with information from Venezuela newspapers, many of them are no longer reliable because they have been purchased by companies friendly government who censor information. Thanks --Wilfredor (talk) 23:20, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
I know about the Venezuelan newspapers more than you think haha. Thanks for the warning though, I attribute all information to whoever states such things anyways such as the Venezuelan government, certain news sources, etc. I do not really have an opinion on politics in Venezuela right now because things have been bad since I used to be there. I do have an interest however especially with the economics and such which relates to many factors of society there.
Here are a few articles you may be interested in though:
I hope this might help you!--ZiaLater (talk) 06:04, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
Thank you very much for the links, I will use the weekend to translate everything. It's amazing that you are aware of everything that is happening in Venezuela. I honestly do not know how to thank you. As for newspapers, I suppose you are aware, there have been some alternative means that have been blocked by an Venezuela internal firewall, here I leave some: dolartoday, maduradas, lapatilla.com, noticierodigital, runrun.es . Most of the print media have been bought by friends of the government (or government workers companies), so, but are electronic media that have been blocked in the country, so the use of proxies to access required. Some digital media also have been purchased as noticias24.com case. --Wilfredor (talk) 10:54, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
It is an interesting and difficult situation occurring in Venezuela right now. I usually use La Patilla since it is more reliable, neutral and creates some of its own news stories as well. Having reliably sourced information is sometimes tough for Venezuelan topics though since so many people have different opinions on media there. I wouldn't necessarily call DolarToday and other websites reliable sources in themselves, but sometimes they have links in their stories which go to actual stories from more reliable and acceptable sources.--ZiaLater (talk) 19:40, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
It is fairly impossible to find objective information because the government seeks to directors and employees of media, imprisoning these media managers (those who were in the country), this type of situation, adds pressure to radicalize media opposition. It is a conflict that is sought in order to misinform, create array of opinion and mainly create demons who then blame as the fictional economic war. At present there is no means of free print media, some print media as the univeral have been bought by a Spanish friend of the government group. It is a network of widespread corruption throughout Latin America, where drug trafficking is involved on a large scale using paramilitary movements. --Wilfredor (talk) 19:35, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
If you want, you could translate this small article: es:Escasez en Venezuela 2013-2014 --Wilfredor (talk) 17:50, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
I'll take a look. I might move some things from the Nicolas Maduro Economic Policy article to there. I've been traveling the past few weeks so I haven't contributed much.--ZiaLater (talk) 03:38, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
No problem, you deserve to take the time that you consider relevant to your rest, remembering that this activity is only recreational and voluntary. Talking about something else, watch the news came today when we think it can not get worse, the government continually worsens the situation in all areas. This crisis has been implemented slowly and is the reason that people do not react, they think only of immediacy without vision. A technique of control and repression in tested in Cuba turned out to be also effective in Venezuela. another site of news in Venezuela that you can use how ref--Wilfredor (talk) 12:17, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I am sorry, I cant help you to translate another wp article, I am retired and blocked in wp:es. A hug --Wilfredor (talk) 14:38, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry. Thanks for recognizing the articles and all of your help. I know it is rough there and a lot less formal but you can at least be welcome here. Thanks for everything.--ZiaLater (talk) 14:45, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi ZiaLater, Do you know any mechanism to communicate privately ?, if possible. Thank you very much. --Wilfredor (talk) 12:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Nothing I can share on here I'm afraid. I'm really private about things so you'd be lucky to find anything on me. I'm sorry.--ZiaLater (talk) 17:22, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I understand perfectly, I made a mistake, my nick fully reveals who I am --Wilfredor (talk) 20:51, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
My old name on here had my mother's maiden name but I even thought that might be too much. I might be a little paranoid o_o jaja--ZiaLater (talk) 23:42, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Help with a mess...[edit]

@Bobrayner:,@DaltonCastle:,@SandyGeorgia:,@Wilfredor: since all of you have been in recent contact with me, I would like to ask for some assistance. A recent edit here has left an NPOV mess that is written just like an essay. I was tempted to delete the edits at first until I noticed some fairly reliable sources (though there are some that may still be definitely unreliable, one I removed). The section has also mostly focused on oil politics instead of actual international relations. I will most likely need help and opinions for fixing this mess.--ZiaLater (talk) 04:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Because of the date (near term-end at US universities), and the use of offline sources from a new editor, I would not be surprised if this is student editing (see all the problems and issues at WP:ENB-- they try to cram content in for a grade when the course ends). Students often edit war to keep their content in, so they can be graded. I also suspect copyvio because of the tone of the writing. Moved it to talk, see if the new editor talks. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:45, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks SandyGeorgia, I guess we'll see what happens on the talk page.--ZiaLater (talk) 06:19, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Nice work by SandyGeorgia. I think that one of the central ideas (oil as the building-block upon which foreign-policy initiatives are built) is actually quite good, and I know that other reliable sources have made much the same point; but the devil is in the detail, and the tone of that text is really not helpful. bobrayner (talk) 16:28, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Does anyone have access to a university library, or even one of those sources, so we can do a plagiarism/copyvio check? If there is no copyvio, there may be some salvageable content. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:05, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Frustratingly, I don't have most of those sources, but in Goforth I haven't seen any hint of copyvio (or even close paraphrasing). bobrayner (talk) 18:25, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
You have Goforth? If the new editor hasn't committed copyvio on one source, unlikely they did on others. Then I feel better about moving the text in, if the opinions of the writers can be attributed, and removing the unsourced. See Talk:Bolivarian Revolution/sandbox1. All of the stuff that is cited still needs to be attributed to the authors who hold those opinions. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:27, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
I have no copyvio concerns. My concerns would me more around tone; it's still seeing things from a Bolivarian point of view - WP:INUNIVERSE, if you will - rather than a distant, neutral view. bobrayner (talk) 18:48, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
If you have no copyvio concerns, then by all means, dig in and edit the sandbox so the cited content can be moved back. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Good job to you both. This is the cooperation I like to see on Wikipedia. I will take a look and possibly dig in myself. Thank you!--ZiaLater (talk) 19:19, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Zia ... I've not edited with you before, so just to doublecheck that you know when moving content, that we have to retain via edit summary a link to contribs, so edit summary has to say "Moved from Talk:Bolivarian Revolution/sandbox1" if you move it back in. Saludos, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:35, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
You rock. You all rock. It's a pleasure working with y'all. (Certainly more fun than working on Balkans articles). bobrayner (talk) 19:48, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Excellent work!!. Unfortunately, the articles in Spanish are poorly balanced. I would not surprise me that the tentacles of government are in this --Wilfredor (talk) 17:06, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Edit summaries[edit]

Hi, Zia; Happy New Year. See this message I left a few days ago for Riothero; the same applies here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:26, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

I know, I saw your message and have given better edit summaries following that. I apologize.--ZiaLater (talk) 20:25, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Just because someone seems to want a fight doesn't mean you have to give it to them. If/when the time comes to rename the article, then that can be debated. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:21, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for understanding SandyGeorgia, I was just replying that I won't prove anything after this last edit on the talk page.--ZiaLater (talk) 00:25, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Not related to this discussion, but perhaps you remember Derwick Associates? Well, that editor was a paid editor,[1] hired by a PR firm, and when editors are paid by the hour, they love to get you into long involved discussions going nowhere!

The discussion at 2014 Venezuelan protests is going nowhere. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:02, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Makes sense. I was getting sick of it anyways. Thanks for the explanations!--ZiaLater (talk) 16:54, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year ZiaLater![edit]

Thanks Wilfredor. Have a great 2015 as well!--ZiaLater (talk) 16:56, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

María Corina Machado[edit]

There is no refernce to her nomination in any english language sources. The winner was nominated by ALDE which the Spanish source names as her nominating party. The entire reference to Sakharov Award should be removed as it is obviously incorrect. [2] [3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cathar66 (talkcontribs) 01:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Ok I see now. She was not formally nominated by the EU but was promoted by the UPyD party. So it is not totally incorrect, just not specific enough. I see that you are new to Wikipedia and would like to welcome you here. As for Wikipedia sources, they can be in any language. Thanks for communicating about our edits though, it is easier using the talk page than edit summaries.--ZiaLater (talk) 03:41, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
I guess was correct according to this and this, both saying that it was just proposed by UPyD. And I'll also apologize for treating you like a newbie since I guess you have been working on Wikipedia before.--ZiaLater (talk) 04:02, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks I've been off WP for a while and I'm a bit rusty. You made me check references on this but it's a lot less reported in the media than I would have expected. Papers must get too much EU PR.Cathar66 (talk) 13:38, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
I understand. If I don't contribute for just a few days I get pretty rusty. Thanks again for discussing this.--ZiaLater (talk) 18:18, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
A few days! For me it's been a few years :). This is probably a relapse. Thanks. Cathar66 (talk) 23:15, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Podemos leaders[edit]

Don't worry; you at least try to make constructive edits, not like the occasional troll trying to unilaterally modify parties' ideologies on their respective articles because they feel like it. As about Podemos, really the only "leader" as of now is Pablo Iglesias as Secretary-General. There is no "President" or "Spokeperson" offices as in other parties, nor any other relevant office being worth mentioned in the infobox. Of course, there is the "founder" option, but there are just too many to fit the infobox: Pablo Iglesias, Iñigo Errejón, Carolina Bescansa, Juan Carlos Monedero, Luis Alegre, Tania González, Teresa Rodríguez, etc. The Spanish article also does it this way, mentioning only Pablo Iglesias as Secretary-General. Cheers. Impru20 (talk) 17:37, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thank you. You're doing a good job at keeping the article in line.--ZiaLater (talk) 17:39, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

About Diosdado[edit]

I think so that could be interesting add this information to Diosdado article. What do you think?. Thanks --Wilfredor (talk) 12:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

@The Photographer: I put the majority of that information in the Corruption in Venezuela already. Thanks for showing that to me though. I moved a lot of his corruption allegations to the Corruption in Venezuela article because it was starting to get too long in his own article giving it undue weight. I did summarize and place the drug trade allegations in the summary of the Cabello article and provided a link to the Corruption in Venezuela information. Once again, thanks for the info!--ZiaLater (talk) 14:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Sir. I am searching the right way to write in english Wikipedia without being banned because my low english level. I will try help you in any situation. Please let me know any information that you think important for me. A hug --The_Photographer (talk) 10:42, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
@The Photographer: No problems. Your English is not too bad, but if you need help with any corrections, let me know. You can place things on your sandbox and I could assist if needed. Then it could be placed in an article. Oh, and "Sir"? haha--ZiaLater (talk) 16:18, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Better source: Foreign Policy magazine. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:26, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks @SandyGeorgia: If you could, improve this article about Leamsy Salazar. I have to suddenly move somewhere but I'll help finish it in a few hours.--ZiaLater (talk) 17:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

February 2015[edit]

Information iconIt appears that you have been canvassing—leaving messages on a biased choice of users' talk pages to notify them of an ongoing community decision, debate, or vote—in order to influence 2002 Venezuelan coup d'état attempt. While friendly notices are allowed, they should be limited and nonpartisan in distribution and should reflect a neutral point of view. Please do not post notices which are indiscriminately cross-posted, which espouse a certain point of view or side of a debate, or which are selectively sent only to those who are believed to hold the same opinion as you. Remember to respect Wikipedia's principle of consensus-building by allowing decisions to reflect the prevailing opinion among the community at large. Thank you.  Mbinebri  talk ← 17:25, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Re:The POV notice @ User talk:SandyGeorgia#2002 Venezuelan coup d'état attempt.  Mbinebri  talk ← 17:29, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Just asking for help since the article needs a lot of it and I trust Sandy as a neutral editor. There really is not any decision, debate or sorts that I asked of them, just for assistance. Thanks for your concern Mbinebri, but maybe you should check out other methods of canvassing while you're at it.--ZiaLater (talk) 01:25, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
I get that you want help, but to avoid canvassing you shouldn't actually promote your side of a disagreement in notices to other editors. For a truly neutral opinion, there are always the noticeboards. I'm aware that Riothero has a blog. In the linked-to Reddit thread, he appears to make a complaint about a Wiki article but doesn't advocate for anyone to start editing. If he did, that would be problematic.  Mbinebri  talk ← 03:15, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
I see you agree with me though. You've helped clean up the article which is what I was asking for, so obviously there were some issues proving that my "bias" or whatever you want to call it wasn't untrue. You've done some of what I asked of him, which was what I was trying to get from other users this whole time. So, I may have been "wondering if [SandyGeorgia] could assist" (asking for help which wasn't specified as editing) but Riothero can ask a whole page of users for "help" using biased words calling the cited article "stupid" and such. Like I said above, do not be afraid that I am canvassing since I know you and others follow my edits. But if you are truly worried about canvassing and the integrity of Wikipedia's articles, then look elsewhere.--ZiaLater (talk) 16:06, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
You write: 'Riothero can ask a whole page of users for "help" using biased words calling the cited article "stupid" and such.' What a misrepresentation! I would like you to show me where I asked users for "help" (especially since you put the word in quotes, as if I used it) with regard to a Wikipedia dispute. I am not aware of any users in the subreddit also being Wikipedia editors, so even the suggestion that I might have been implicitly asking for help is totally without merit. In truth, I wanted to verify whether the claim by one article (the one you cited)--that "el Che" was the leader of all collectivos--had any basis in reality I may have overlooked. That is why I posed this question in a neutral manner (I ask: is the claim made by this news article an error, or am I reading it incorrectly?'). Someone (FYI, nearly 90% of the users in that subreddit are pro-opposition, anti-Chavista) responded that that "El Che" (a well-known personality) is definitely not the leader of "all the collectives"; in his/her view, 'El Che' may have falsely represented himself as the leader of "all the collectivos", and the article simply took this at face value, without fact-checking it. It does not reflect any 'bias' on my part to then characterize the article as 'stupid' for committing such a basic journalistic mistake. Your charge that this represents a case of canvassing is totally absurd, and in fact, suggests a misunderstanding on your part, of Wikipedia's basic rules regarding canvassing. Far from encouraging anyone to participate in a Wikipedia discussion on my behalf, I actually removed the only comment (posted by someone else, in response to my own) that linked to the talk page discussion we were having (I happen to be a moderator in that Venezuelan subreddit), because it was--obviously--not my intention to solicit support in this matter. Once again, you are deflecting legitimate concerns regarding your behavior on Wikipedia by throwing baseless charges at other editors. Disgraceful.----Riothero (talk) 08:02, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I do not misunderstand Riothero. I also do not misunderstand that you are a very biased WP editor. We get that you are pro-Chavez and that is fine, but you have been all over Reddit linking your own editing problems from Wikipedia. Remember when there was a discussion over your constant deleting of sourced information? You had a Reddit comment linked to your blog for that (which you promptly deleted when I brought it up back then). When you had a problem with "el Che", there was Reddit comments for that too (trying to "verify" things from an entire page of others regarding a WP edit can be seen as "help" just like asking for one person to look at a messy article). You were looking for someone to support your opinions Riothero, I was just looking for an extra pair of eyes to help with an article. The difference between you and I is that your edits are clearly opinionated. I mean what is the most "disgraceful" thing is that you reject such accusations when you delete sourced content when your own blog's description in my tab heading is "venezuela caracas | pro-chavista, caracas | pro-chavez, caracas| riothero|" (clearly "baseless charges"). With that and your edits censoring the work of others, I truly lose some respect for you. You can say what you want about my opinion, but I have said it again and will say it more, Venezuela is in a tough situation with or without the current government. Whichever leadership you look at, there are hardly any plans for improvement, just plans on who will lead the country. I just let the sources do the talking. I hope you can look past your bias and make constructive edits instead of the destructive ones of constant deleting that you have been performing.--ZiaLater (talk) 17:21, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Zia, your edits can appear just as agenda-driven and you do engage in canvassing, so maybe you need to be a little more civil here. Yes, Rio has deleted a lot over the months (years?) but much of his argument seems to be based on claimed source misrepresentation and undue weight given toward a certain viewpoint (I frequently think the same of your edits on the latter point). Your response is typically to flat-out reject such claims, which you are accusing Rio of doing, and say you're unbiased (everyone is biased to some degree) then point to the sourcing being reliable, which is generally not a good counterpoint to undue claims.  Mbinebri  talk ← 18:30, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I have been as civil as possible for months and apologize to some degree. I cannot agree with accusations of canvassing or that I was committing an "act or process of attempting to secure votes or ascertain opinions" (though the same can't be said about other people). I was just asking for the clean up of an article. I can also honestly say I am not biased towards anyone in the matter of my articles (unless maybe subconsciously) since in the case of Venezuelan articles, there is no party involved that is far better than the other. As for accusations of being undue in edits, it would help if we could all be constructive, providing a balanced weight by adding information from all sides and attributing such info instead of being destructive and deleting constantly through hundreds of edits. I think we can conclude this discussion since it is becoming one of the many sections on my talk page where I'm warned of something I didn't do. Thanks for your concerns everyone.--ZiaLater (talk) 22:28, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
@Mbinebri: Trying to find neutrality may fall into the error of censuring others. I know you mean well, however, help us to that truth can come out of Venezuela. Thanks --The_Photographer (talk) 00:24, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

RSN[edit]

I started a discussion regarding that gov't document here: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Declassified US document. Please try to keep the responses short and sweet. The last time we had a board discussion, the responses were like essays and no one joined in.  Mbinebri  talk ← 22:11, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

I tried to explain my edits the best I could. Thanks for having a discussion with me. Sorry if it is too long since I began writing before I saw this message.--ZiaLater (talk) 22:26, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
It's cool. Let's just hope people chime in.  Mbinebri  talk ← 22:46, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Students killed[edit]

Hellow Sir, I am comebacking to translate everything that you are writing here about Venezuela to wp spanish. I was thinking how add the current students murdered--The_Photographer (talk) 17:25, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

@The Photographer: I would mention the 14 year old who was killed, but the other students who were murdered is still unknown and just speculation. Let me know if you need anymore help!--ZiaLater (talk) 18:19, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
FYI, BTW, I am translating "yours articles" to spanish. We could make a list to check translation status --The_Photographer (talk) 20:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for the link but be careful with sources like Dolar Today since they aren't reliable. You can make the list if you would like and I can try to help. I will start a section below for us.--ZiaLater (talk) 21:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Articles[edit]

@The Photographer: Here is the section for articles.--ZiaLater (talk) 21:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

On es:wp there are a big "government influence", I started with my first step here, however, my english level is not good. --The_Photographer (talk) 16:54, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
@The Photographer: It wasn't too bad but I fixed a few things.--ZiaLater (talk) 17:28, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
take a look to my big problem on Spanish and nobody do nothing --The_Photographer (talk) 22:51, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
@The Photographer: I looked at it and it does look like some weird edits have been happening but I prefer not to intervene on Spanish articles that much since they are just big messes. Here are some links involved with the teenage pregnancy subject though (1 - 2 - 3 - 4). Here is another article showing how Venezuela's poor economy doesn't help with contraceptives either.--ZiaLater (talk) 23:34, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
I was just looking for your observation, not your participation in these subjects in Spanish Wikipedia. I have been aware of the problems with drugs in Venezuela, I recently had to send medication to my mom who need to live (due to chronic illness). The government does not allocate dollars to pharmaceutical companies for importing medicines, because the priority is to maintain the clean image using the control. Additionally, sending medicines to Venezuela is extremely bureaucratic and in 90% of cases, medicines "lost" along the way. A customs control and packet traffic totally corrupt system where the probability that a packet arrives at its destination in Venezuela is practically nil. I sent a package with a friend full of medicines to three months of chronic medications, in addition to basic medicines such as flu, dengue, chicunguya and thyroid medications. I have been in constant communication with them by phone, my two sisters are doctors and they are "easier" to find drugs, however, the situation has worsened. The issue of drugs and generally poor health system, along with the brutal repression of corrupt government and the system of insecurity with the most dangerous criminal in the world is a breeding ground have turned this into a perfect storm. Additionally, it is not possible to observe a possible solution in the short or medium term, it is still possible that Venezuela is finished become a military dictatorship using a coup. A secretary of the OAS, a biased secretary with Chavez Latin American countries was recently chosen. US pronouncements against corrupt officials in Venezuela has been used to strengthen the power of Maduro in Venezuela by enabling powers. --The_Photographer (talk) 11:45, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
I know the difficulties and I hope things get better with your family and all Venezuelans. Only time will tell.--ZiaLater (talk) 15:06, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks --The_Photographer (talk) 23:01, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
working process :) done, full translation :D --The_Photographer (talk) 18:41, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Looks good but you may want to fix some of the references. I can start getting graphs ready as well.--ZiaLater (talk) 02:39, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Podemos graph[edit]

Oops, sorry, I missed the message. Well, I don't think we should use a different graph, because it could hide useful data that would be interesting to get the whole picture. It's not the same for the graph to start in April 2014, when PP was at ~30% and PSOE at ~25% (with IU and UPyD around ~15% and ~10%, respectively) that it to start from 2011. Keep in mind that Podemos' rise came as a result of PP and PSOE's erosion, because of PP's government management and PSOE's inability to effectively build a credible opposition to it, and that's a situation that has built up since the last general election to now.

Btw, it is also a lot simpler to keep updating just one graph that doing it with two. Impru20 (talk) 10:46, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

@Impru20:Ok, sounds good. I just wanted to show the actual rise of Podemos but I guess your explanation helps. I'll keep the file in case popularity for Podemos changes so we could still show the "rise" in that particular section. Thanks for replying!--ZiaLater (talk) 22:15, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Venezuela money for Bolívar Article[edit]

Hi ZiaLater, I uploaded to my personal gallery a low size scanned version, however, i dont know how upload it here under fair use, could you help me? [4]. thanks --The_Photographer (talk) 01:12, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

@The Photographer:They look very nice and thanks for saving me a couple of minutes of scanning since I was missing one. Give me a few minutes and I'll guide you through it.--ZiaLater (talk) 01:16, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
@The Photographer: Ok, start on the WP Upload Wizard here, fill in the first few boxes and then click the "This is a copyrighted, non-free work, but I believe it is Fair Use" (middle selection). After that, there should be a selection dropbox where you can choose "Depiction of currency (banknotes, coins etc.)", for the "Original publication" you can place "own image". For the "purpose", you can say "It adds significantly to the article, as the article is specifically about the subject of the image." For the alternative, you can say "Cannot be replaced with a copyright free alternative." --ZiaLater (talk) 01:55, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
Nice, thanks --The_Photographer (talk) 02:34, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Redundant text[edit]

During the economic crisis observed during --The_Photographer (talk) 19:35, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

2002 coup edits are hypocritical[edit]

Seriously, how many times have you reverted Riothero's removals of sourced content, dismissing whatever his reasons are as political bias, based solely on the idea that if it's sourced, it stays? Now you're in his shoes, it seems, arguing for the removal of sourced content for little more than the political partisanship you always accuse him of. I hope you see the hypocrisy in that.  Mbinebri  talk ← 12:21, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

I invite you to stay calm, it is not necessary to reach personal attacks. --The_Photographer (talk) 14:11, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Opinion articles are not reliable in a very controversial topic.--ZiaLater (talk) 18:43, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, but that is your own pseudo-policy and purely POV.  Mbinebri  talk ← 19:29, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Not fake policies, I will invite others to check out recent changes since they are somewhat large. If you accuse me of canvassing I will take that as harassment since I have been through this multiple times with you.--ZiaLater (talk) 20:29, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Feel free to start a WP:RSN if you want independent opinions instead of just asking the usual editors you hope will agree with you, which leads to the canvassing issues in the first place.  Mbinebri  talk ← 20:37, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
@Mbinebri: Interestingly, since your first edition, you are an expert in POV. I think you are one of those users who read the entire manual before editing wikipedia, including deep issues like POV. Wanting to have the POV excessively in an article brings the exact opposite, and now you're falling to a level of rudeness attacking users. I recommend taking a hot tea and a walk to calm down. --The_Photographer (talk) 20:44, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
This is pointless b/c the edit was correct, the comparison is beyond ridiculous and it wasn't their first edit as you claim. Now who is attacking whom?--TMCk (talk) 21:24, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
The Magnificent Clean-keeper, please don't stalk edits because that doesn't help the situations (I'm not trying to talk you down either, just hear me out). Mbinebri is one of the users I respect the most. Though we sometimes have some disputes, we usually figure them out. Sometimes we have to keep each other in line which is fine. It is just with Venezuelan articles they can be controversial so there will be heated discussions among many of us. I would like to remind us all that we are here to make constructive edits on Wikipedia. I try my best with my edits of trying to make Wikipedia better and I stood by my edits since I believed they were in accordance to Wikipedia's policies, I just want to explain this here. I'm sure you all try to do the same. So please use these talk pages wisely since we're all in this together and especially use my talk page constructively since I don't want to be in the center of conflict.--ZiaLater (talk) 08:12, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
I will start one of those. Thanks for sharing this with me so we can avoid future conflicts!--ZiaLater (talk) 20:41, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

About wp:es[edit]

There is a huge strength to keep articles related to Venezuela with a positive view toward government. I'm sure this is happening in English too, is an exhausting task having to spend so much time trying to keep the neutral point of view, especially when we are not paid for it. They usually use arguments sources governments or purchased media. --The_Photographer (talk) 14:11, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Yikes...[edit]

...at that CSP article! Isn't there a less biased source to be found to cite the same info you're looking to add? Either way, it's a good thing you're getting noticeboard opinions first because you know Riothero would have reverted anything you added from that piece in a heartbeat and I'm not sure I would blame him!  Mbinebri  talk ← 19:26, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

I know... but I have been looking, I would just like to add more about the VIO functions than just the opinion of others about the VIO. It won't be the CSP opinion since there are enough issues with opinions on the article, but they do provide some interesting details on some operations. I'll add some stuff in a neutral manner and you can try to clean up if you would like. I'm learning some things from you!--ZiaLater (talk) 00:58, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
I might have found an article that says some of the same things from the Center for Public Integrity! I thought it was already on the page but it wasn't. I may still try to use some of the CSP information but will try to avoid any opinions they have.--ZiaLater (talk) 23:17, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

FYI[edit]

Simon Cordova, director of the polling International Consulting Services (ICS), he is too Deputy to Parlatino by the Movimiento Bastión Revolucionario 200 4-Fases [1][2]. :) --The_Photographer (talk) 20:33, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

That's an interesting find. I know some of us had a discussion about ICS before.--ZiaLater (talk) 00:54, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
Great, same situation in es.wp. It's like a black hole of corruption bottomless. --The_Photographer (talk) 14:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Persec. Yazidis[edit]

(In answering on: User talk:Corriebertus#Persecution of Yazidis by ISIL article, 9 April.)

Hello, ZiaLater. I'll not react now on your changes in the Infobox, I'll just react on your section 'Releases of Yaz...'. If I assume (without checking) that your added facts are correct, I'm not very satisfied to see that new subsection arranged under a section (§3) called 'Massacres...', because releasing is not massacring/forced exile/slavery/human trafficking/etc..

Releasing is (of course) interesting and important, but it is not massacring or the like. If you feel this article is the best place to mention it, then mention it there in a separate, new, section. That would separate in from 'the massacres', presenting it as a sort of aftermath, or 'side-topic'. --Corriebertus (talk) 12:16, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

@Corriebertus: Ok, I made a separate section for the release information. I figured it might have fit in with the human trafficking elements in the section but you're right. Thanks for the response!--ZiaLater (talk) 12:23, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
You are really quick. I was just on my way to change my words, because they could seem a bit bossy, severe. It is all just my opinion, nothing more, that was what I had wanted to make clearer, in my posting of 15 minutes ago. But yes: this new presentation of yours pleases me more, it seems correcter to me. --Corriebertus (talk) 12:30, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
@Corriebertus: Don't worry, I've had worse encounters with users and I didn't find your words offensive. I also saw that you are from the Netherlands and found a related article that may interest you. Thanks for your help!--ZiaLater (talk) 12:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Bye, for now. --Corriebertus (talk) 16:22, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

La Patilla[edit]

Hi Sir, please, be carefull using "La Patilla" how reference in english article from this moment. Good bye Patilla --The_Photographer (talk) 14:12, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on that now. For you, I'd recommend Efecto Cocuyo if the situation with La Patilla raises too much concern.--ZiaLater (talk) 15:07, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
@The Photographer: This may all be talk since Cabello is going after Spanish media too. La Patilla servers are outside of Venezuela (I think) and since they don't need a broadcasting license, they can just operate online. I can see how the Venezuelan government can do things to journalists on the ground there though. Time will tell.--ZiaLater (talk) 15:16, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Propaganda image[edit]

If this image is deleted, all in this category could be deleted? --The_Photographer (talk) 17:50, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't understand exactly what they mean by it being "permanent". If you can find another image of that billboard it would help.--ZiaLater (talk) 17:48, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
Ok, I remembered what it meant. I left a comment because I am not sure if it was removed from the public or not. If it was then it should be deleted but I am not sure as of right now.--ZiaLater (talk) 19:04, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
The file had been deleted, by my wife. Although I disagree, I trust her judgment. --The_Photographer (talk) 11:25, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Spanish version[edit]

Maybe, could be interesting for you take a look of Nicolas Maduro spanish version article. This article is more updated than english version, I think so --The_Photographer (talk) 16:45, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

I was thinking about doing that recently since the English article seems bare. If the information on there is of quality, I will see what I can do.--ZiaLater (talk) 16:53, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
I will try help you. --The_Photographer (talk) 11:32, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Ok, thank you. I have been sick recently so I might not be editing that much for awhile. I need to catch up with other things too.--ZiaLater (talk) 12:27, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Please dedicate yourself to restore your health, health is important. I hope to know you're okay, spending too much time editing these issues is not good. Taking the time to leisure and entertainment is important. While you're sick, you might see some of your favorite science fiction movies, listen to music. Whatever the illness you have, please take all the time you want. Get well soon. --The_Photographer (talk) 14:19, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Venezuela media dead[edit]

Maybe this link could be interesting for you, about the media killer. --The_Photographer (talk) 20:04, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

It will be interesting to see what happens. People didn't like what happened to RCTV but they are also scared right now and waiting for elections.--ZiaLater (talk) 08:35, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
RCTV was a case with a high political cost for the government, then the government learned the lesson. The government now creating ghosts allied governments or foreigner companies they finance institutions to buy local media and silence them, this is what has happened with noticias24.com, El Universal and Globovision, hundreds of radio stations. The rest of the few media that remain, they censor themselves for not disappear. Self-censorship is evident, for example, the dismissal of Luis Chataing in Televen. --The_Photographer (talk) 13:07, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

New images[edit]

I uploaded (import from flickr) "miles" of images to commons about Venezuela topics, this image could be interesting for you --The_Photographer (talk) 17:57, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Internet control[edit]

Another problem with the control over the Internet on Venezuela using Colectivos --The_Photographer (talk) 13:07, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

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Hello, ZiaLater. You have new messages at Mbinebri's talk page.
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Edit warring[edit]

You not only edit warred but now also surpassed 3RR. You might want to self revert in your own interest.--TMCk (talk) 22:39, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Yeah I may have done it on accident. I was trying to get to the talk page but people kept reverting as well.--ZiaLater (talk) 22:43, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
@The Magnificent Clean-keeper: wouldn't reverting it again just be another reversion on the page?--ZiaLater (talk) 22:55, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
No, it wouldn't or I wouldn't had mentioned it.--TMCk (talk) 23:02, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I cannot revert it through the button. Would a manual revert work? I still have some more things to add today.--ZiaLater (talk) 23:03, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Nobody cares "how" you revert.--TMCk (talk) 23:05, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I reverted it then.--ZiaLater (talk) 23:19, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
  • And re-reverted right after, thus see below.--TMCk (talk) 23:56, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I did try to put the link for a source back but I might have put back more than that. Either way you would've tried to block me, so I anticipated the block. I was not having a good day and you did not make it any better with all of that reverting confusion. This block has given me a pretty nice break though so thanks for that. Hopefully you can have faith in me someday and it seems like you might have understood my edits as well. I was trying to keep it NPOV, I promise.--ZiaLater (talk) 20:27, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
yada, yada, yada. Yes, you got me. I opened my account only to wait for you to show up so I can get you blocked. It had nothing to do with your edits at all. Keep enjoying your time off, tho.--TMCk (talk) 23:23, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I see you like Seinfeld too. Is it weird that I have been watching some on my time off too?--ZiaLater (talk) 01:21, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I like Seinfeld. I also like eating food and using the bathroom the day after. How about you? :) --TMCk (talk) 16:03, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
With the way I look, it seems like I let the food stay for too many days...--ZiaLater (talk) 17:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
Well then, guess you're not my evil twin after all.--TMCk (talk) 17:51, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

References problem[edit]

Hello friend, I have some serious problems with Wikipedia in Spanish, several users are using recognized sources of newspapers purchased by the government to justify any number of follies. I want to know the experience you have on this, how to mediate these situations?. Thanks --The_Photographer (talk) 17:59, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I guess they are still reliable sources they are using because no one knows for sure if they're purchased or just afraid. Though their stances have changed abruptly, I think they could just use those for the articles on Spanish Wikipedia. If you could find another article from another source that shows both sides of the story, then you can add both sides of the story to the article as well. However, I do understand your concerns, Correo del Orinoco is definitely a Venezuelan government newspapers and that should be attributed to the information in the articles. Noticas24 is a weird source, they've changed their source and there was accusations that they have been giving information to SEBIN, though they can be seen as normally reliable as well. El Universal is probably one of the better sources I see being used, I have found both sides in their stories so they are not a horrible source, though they have ignored new reports about protests and deleted the sections for them.
Anyways, I hope this helps. Cheers.--ZiaLater (talk) 20:32, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
The problem is that many hands editing. In Spanish there are hundreds of well constructed articles, however, that deep conceal a propaganda machine, I would think not, but there are extensive detailed articles of everything "good" that the government has made positive. Sysops and other users from Venezuela, they just look and not edited. I'm not sure why, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they censor because of fear. There really blind and I'm making an effort to think that these users act due to their own convictions and no other reason. I sometimes spend a whole day translating one of your articles and then they just change a verb or add a final sentence to change the whole idea and thus in his favor. I have unfortunately fallen into endless discussions. I add some information and immediately come to different users try to deflect it using non-neutral verbs to look inert, passive administrators. I now feel as if you were building a water tower. I have always tried to reflect both sides of the coin, but the government side is overwhelming. It is so absurd that it would be a great joke to someone in Venezuela. I just wanted to talk to you, I'm really alone in es.wp.
FYI Universal, btw noticias24 is pro chavism and they disabled comments in news. Cheers --The_Photographer (talk) 21:09, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Graph fix?[edit]

Can you fix this graph? I downloaded INE's table and it appears you used the mid-year poverty totals and not the end-year totals which are quite different for 2012 and 2013. Thanks!  Mbinebri  talk ← 13:56, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

I'll take a look!--ZiaLater (talk) 13:59, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
@Mbinebri: Take a look. I have no idea where those numbers were from because they weren't even in the INE's data (I think?). Anyways, I also found out that the World Bank just uses the INE's data too from the looks of it.--ZiaLater (talk) 14:38, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for taking a look, but from what I can tell you just moved 2012 and 2013 down a percentage point. 2012 should be at roughly 21% and 2013 at 27%, which would make 2013 almost level with 2011. Btw, what program do you use for making graphs?  Mbinebri  talk ← 14:57, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Also, it seems like ECLAC didn't get enough data in 2012 and 2013 (I wonder why?) and had to use INE's statistics as well.--ZiaLater (talk) 14:53, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
How do you know?  Mbinebri  talk ← 14:57, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
It's exactly the same as the INE's and in a note, it says "Figures of the National Institute of Statistics (INE) of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, not comparable with those of previous years".--ZiaLater (talk) 14:58, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Also, you can't compare that data to other countries through ECLAC's statistics since it is "not comparable". So technically it might not be "second" or "sixth" in poverty reduction in Latin America. Hmmm...--ZiaLater (talk) 15:01, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
After looking at everything, I'll just place the INE/World Bank data since the ECLAC data has some inconsistencies.--ZiaLater (talk) 22:50, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Also another thing I noticed, the INE changed all of its recent stats since they are different from the ones I saved. Interesting.--ZiaLater (talk) 23:15, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
I can imagine calculating poverty rates is rather complicated. If the UN or INE perhaps updated its calculation method or uncovered new info and subsequently updated its final numbers, I see no problem. We can just use the new ones or attribute a publishing date to the old ones. Removal is an overreaction—albeit a well-meaning one.  Mbinebri  talk ← 00:26, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Getting any data from Venezuela is difficult for many reasons. I just removed the UN data again since the UN says not to compare it. I don't like presenting poor data to others which is why I corrected that graph quickly, though now that correction has me thinking.--ZiaLater (talk) 06:27, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
You're going to need a more substantial argument than that, Zia, if you want to remove cited info from a reliable source that only you have a problem with. You treat the UN's info as if a "not comparable" note negates all of it, which is absurd. If the UN's info wasn't credible, it wouldn't have published it. The fact that you removed even the 2011-2013 content under the "1999 and 2013 can't be compared" rationale shows you're a little too eager in your removals. If the UN's data is not comparable because it had to rely on the INE in 2012/2013, there are some solutions. We can either note the INE was used—although I'm still unclear on that—or simply limit the scope of the data to the last year the UN was using its own. Simple. I'm also confused on your claim that the INE and World Bank are the same numbers. The graph doesn't reflect that. Because the World Bank link didn't provide any numbers (unless I missed it?), I just removed it and left in the INE.  Mbinebri  talk ← 13:04, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
On my unclear point, the INE and UN/ECLAC appear to have different numbers for 2012 and 2013.  Mbinebri  talk ← 13:15, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
OK, I read the document with the "not comparable" statement. It's a pretty terrible document, offering only three years' data, oddly choosing 2005, 2012, and 2013. ECLAC has a searchable database for these stats that's much more helpful. Because their 2012/2013 stats are still the same as the document referencing the INE, I went 1999-2011 for ECLAC alone and attributed ECLAC's use of the INE for 2012 and 2013. The only thing left "comparing" any dates now is the 2011-2012 transition, but I left it in because numerous sources explicitly make the comparison and the previous document only references 2005 as a incomparable prior year.  Mbinebri  talk ← 14:11, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Hey, Zia, can you link me to where you got the World Bank poverty stats? I'm a little skeptical on how the World Bank's stats went from different from the INE's to what looks to be exactly the same. Thanks!  Mbinebri  talk ← 19:00, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Found it. Wasn't working for me when I tried last time. OK, I still have an issue though. If the World Bank doesn't arrive at its own stats—instead using the INE—why is it in the table? Its inclusion obviously skews the average by doubling up on one source.  Mbinebri  talk ← 19:14, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
I am working on it currently. Trying to compare old INE data, old UN data and see where it all falls in place.--ZiaLater (talk) 20:58, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
You're working too hard. All we really need is the most recent version of the stats from the UN/ECLAC and the INE. If you're redoing the graph, do you mind using the INE's mid-year numbers too? If they provide them, we might as well use them.  Mbinebri  talk ← 21:59, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

If we use the mid-term numbers you don't see the annual result as the way it is presented in other forms like the ECLAC. It would be possible, but over so many years it might look sloppy. Also, the older source that has poverty rates back to the 1990s doesn't show the mid-year numbers, so only some years have this data.--ZiaLater (talk) 14:16, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

English "Anexo"[edit]

I dont know how is Anexo in wikipedia on english, Anexo is a special name for something that is not really a article, it could be a list or graphics. This could be interesting for you. --The_Photographer (talk) 19:19, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

@The Photographer: That is interesting. I'm not sure if there is something like that on the english Wikipedia but it would be nice to have if someone wanted to analyze the economic situation for themselves. I think you should look at this too (Microsoft Excel).--ZiaLater (talk) 22:30, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Chart source[edit]

Please, could you upload each chart data (source program) to commonsarchive adding the template {{Commons Archive|Myfilesource.zip}} for each graphic uploaded for you in commons, and please remember add source information about your charts in commons because "Own work" is not enough, you need add a link of the primary source also. Upload source file to commonsarchive is important for translate it to spanish or make any modification. I remember that you are using some software in your macos, you can upload it directly to commonsarchive or if you have another files about the same chart you could compress all the files in one Zip file and upload it to commonsarchive also. You could try LibreOffice. Thanks, I am translating every article that you are publishing to spanish, please, let me know some important to add. Cheers --The_Photographer (talk) 13:50, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

BTW. You must be careful with the inflation figures of the BCV, they have changed their method of calculation for down more --The_Photographer (talk) 13:52, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
BTW2 this extension is enabled in Wikipedia --The_Photographer (talk) 16:19, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
I'll read over this stuff and do it once I feel confident that I didn't screw up anything. Thanks for showing me this!--ZiaLater (talk) 17:31, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Take a look this chart and my war in spanish --The_Photographer (talk) 13:29, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Ways to improve Prodavinci[edit]

Hi, I'm Sulfurboy. ZiaLater, thanks for creating Prodavinci!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. .

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. Sulfurboy (talk) 18:53, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

La Mancha Negra[edit]

hey its Plazmid, i know youve been helping me on La Mancha Negra, and was wondering if you could please help me make it bigger and help add detail im not ver good at it, it is my first time. im also writing a book about it so i need La Mancha Negra to get bigger!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plazmid (talkcontribs) 10:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

@Plazmid: I can see what I can do. It is an interesting article and quite fun compared to the others I work on.--ZiaLater (talk) 10:29, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

it looks absolutely professional dude!! well done Hooray!!!

@Plazmid:You're welcome. It was difficult finding some things but if you enter "La Mancha Negra" (with the quotation marks) in Google, it will show more. Since it is in Spanish, using a browser like Google Chrome may help since it is easier to have it translate instead of trying to do it in your head. Let me know if you need any assistance with any other articles!--ZiaLater (talk) 19:52, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

i did not know that, thats interesting. thanks i will!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plazmid (talkcontribs) 09:40, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Spanish version of last graph[edit]

Hi Zia, could you please do a spanish version of File:President Maduro's approval rating.png, you could overwrite this file. thanks --The_Photographer (talk) 14:25, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll work on it soon. Thanks for reminding me!--ZiaLater (talk) 17:44, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks and welcome :) --The_Photographer (talk) 22:16, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
I will try to work on it today. I have been busy with catching up with things.--ZiaLater (talk) 02:53, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

@The Photographer: All done. Sorry for the delay!--ZiaLater (talk) 06:15, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Np, Remember that its your time. thanks!. :) --The_Photographer (talk) 12:36, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Economy of Venezuela[edit]

I concur... Hammersbach (talk) 16:22, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Re: Welcome back[edit]

Hi ZiaLater! Thanks for your message, if you look at my contributions I'm like a bear, editing a lot in a period of time to then hibernate for the rest of the year :). I see that you are interested in Venezuela, I hope we can do something with this empty house in the future. Cheers --Oscar (talk) 02:53, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Corruption in Equatorial Guinea[edit]

Hello again! Any chance you could check out this page and offer suggestions/make changes where you see fit? I recently created this page and am hoping to improve it some more. DaltonCastle (talk) 00:58, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

@DaltonCastle: I'll take a look.--ZiaLater (talk) 14:38, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Two questions about List of Presidents of Venezuela‎[edit]

First, is that one day presidency really relevant enough to be mentioned?

Second, don't you think that Chavez should have one line for each term (in total, four lines, corresponding to his four terms he served)? Incendiary Iconoclasm 03:54, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

@Incendiary Iconoclasm: First, yes, because the period surrounding the coup attempt is very controversial and Chávez was not president at that time. Second, see list of Presidents of the United States. There are less coups than the Venezuelan list but you'll get the picture. Thanks for using the talk page!--ZiaLater (talk) 04:24, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Cilia Flores[edit]

Hi Zia, maybe could be interesting add this information about Cilia Flores article. Thanks --The_Photographer (talk) 01:24, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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New Congress[edit]

Hi ZiaLater, in this moment maybe you are sleeping, however, I am very happy because news!!. Thanks my friend --The_Photographer (talk) 13:27, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome. Like I said to Riothero, I am don't care for either, but hopefully there will be more balance now and they will come together. I hope things will get less polarized soon and Venezuelans can work together to fix the crisis. One of the most valuable lessons I was taught in my life was forgiveness. Hopefully they can let bygones be bygones.--ZiaLater (talk) 18:45, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 9[edit]

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Dec 2015[edit]

Would you mind checking out Leopolod Lopez' article? There is a user pushing edits that I believe hint at a POV but I want to be sure of it before getting too into it. DaltonCastle (talk) 02:39, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

I was watching it before the talk page was being used. I'll take a look.--ZiaLater (talk) 07:20, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

A Ref for Bolivarian Circles[edit]

This ref could be very useful for the article Bolivarian Circles. “Aquí el que se rinda, un pepazo por la cabeza por detrás, pin” --The_Photographer (talk) 14:41, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

@The Photographer: Thank you. I'll take a look after I'm done making some edits!--ZiaLater (talk) 14:50, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Maybe you could learn spanish. This video is another excellent reference:
Situation of Freedom of Expression in Venezuela

--The_Photographer (talk) 02:54, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 30 December[edit]

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February 2016[edit]

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  • The Venezuelan media initially supported [Hugo Chavez]] after his election in 1998, supporting the changes he proposed for Venezuela.<ref name=Nelson1>{{

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  1. ^ Diputado Simón Cordova por el Movimiento Bastión Revolucionario 200 4-Fases
  2. ^ Entrevista Venevisión: Simón Córdova, director de la encuestadora ICS