User talk:Orangemarlin

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Recent RfAs, recent RfBs: (successful, unsuccessful) FACs needing feedback view • Susanna Hoffs Review it now Fountain Fire Review it now Jozo Tomasevich Review it now Featured article removal candidates PowerBook 100 Review now 1981 Irish hunger strike Review now Battle of Red Cliffs Review now Mariah Carey Review now Pokémon Channel Review now Concerto delle donne Review now The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask Review now Geography of Ireland Review now Articles on Quackademic Medicine Below are articles articles, mostly medical but some in the sciences, that promote ideas or POV's that might endanger human life. Feel free to add your own, but I'm watching and cleaning up these articles. Please sign if you add something. List of medicinal herbs-lacks any references, and implies these drugs can help.Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC) Herbalism-same as above Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC) Homeopathy-ridiculous Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC) Attachment therapy-don't let your children go there Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC) This has been rewritten since User:AWeidman (Dr Becker-Weidman) and his 6 socks were indef banned. Fainites barley 16:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC) Medicinal plants of the American West-more unsourced POV edits Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC) Alternative medicine-more of the same Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC) Naturopathic medicine-Actually not completely off the wall, but some parts are bad. Orangemarlin 00:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC) Er, Duesberg hypothesis and poppers could both use more work, and talk about endangering lives... especially the former. MastCell Talk 18:54, 12 September 2007 (UTC) I'd also add ephedra to the list... I did a lot of work cleaning it up and it's not so bad anymore (it actually references the serious harms and deaths associated with ephedra supplements in a way that goes beyond referring to the FDA as jackbooted thugs, now). But much of the same material is duplicated in ECA stack, which I haven't been as successful with, and which I fear gives an erroneous impression as to the safety record of ephedra-containing dietary supplements. MastCell Talk 19:20, 12 September 2007 (UTC) Arguably, Reflexology, though that's probably not actually dangerous, just ridiculously oversold. Adam Cuerden talk 00:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC) Vaccine controversy. Anti-vaxers are really dangerous. -- Fyslee / talk 08:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC) Hulda Clark. A dangerous scam. -- Fyslee / talk 08:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC) This one has been stable in reasonable shape for awhile now. MastCell Talk 19:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC) Gary Null. Advocates nonsense. -- Fyslee / talk 08:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC) Working on this one. MastCell Talk 19:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC) Joseph Mercola. Advocates nonsense and repeated run ins with the FTC. -- Fyslee / talk 08:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC) rebirthing, reparenting, Power therapies. Primal Scream therapy. I would treat Neurolinguistic Programming as the main hub for many of them though. Its a subject that seems to be the main pseudoscientific umbrella that is used by most of them to give the false impression of scientific appearance. Its incredibly widespread and extremely misleading to the less scientifically literate. Here is a good source; [1]. Phloem (talk) 05:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC) anyone who wants to work on this complex of article, I'll be glad to help. Time we got to the pseudo-psychology. DGG (talk) 21:18, 21 January 2008 (UTC) try Eisner in The death of psychotherapy, Chapter 3 "Cathartic Therapies:From Primal to est". A little out of date but .... Fainites barley 22:20, 16 March 2008 (UTC) coral calcium. I just put in some references, but there is a lot more that can be done. That someone would think that coral calcium can be used as a panacea for all types of cancer when in fact excess calcium can, in some cases, be detrimental to certain cancer treatments means that we should be very careful how the claims of the coral calcium fanatics are treated. ScienceApologist (talk) 21:38, 12 January 2008 (UTC) This is pretty much fixed, at least until the next SPA... MastCell Talk 19:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC) Mannatech. An article about a company that purveys sugars, calling them health products (glyconutrients). Antelantalk 02:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC) I tried on this, & only very partially succeeded. DGG (talk) 19:34, 2 June 2008 (UTC) Magnet therapy and Alex Chiu. You've got to be kidding. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 14:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Prostate cancer#Ejaculation frequency I'm sorry, but this just cracked me up. I need to read the references, but my side hurts. Juvenile, I am. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 06:07, 18 June 2008 (UTC) Colon cleansing– After hearing radio commercials dozens of times for supplements, I had to do something. - RoyBoy 03:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC) New Thought. Some New Age medicine/religion attempting to hide it's snake-oil medicine by using religion. Intelligent design used the same method, and it didn't work there. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 06:30, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Medical Articles Below are articles that I believe, along with any trusted science and medicine editors who may wish to contribute, meet the simple test of being well-written, do not give undue weight to fringe theories, and are either WP:GA or WP:FA: Alzheimer's Disease Rotavirus Request for Arbitration If you are here to read about all of the Wiki-drama surrounding the secret hearings (so secret that no one on the ArbCom knew about them apparently), you can read it here. No editing allowed. One day this will be funny. I hope.

Warning

As of this post, you've made 11 posts to my talkpage, and the day is only have over. Using my superior math skills, my unsurpassed intelligence, my intuitive fashion sense, my tasteful sports loyalties, and my infinitely better physical appearance, I've extrapolated that at current pace, you'll have singlehandedly made more edits to my talkpage, today, than I have. Which, of course, is prima facie evidence that you need this warning. Keeper ǀ 76 17:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm now officially declaring myself a Vandalizing Keeper76's page account. However, I am going to have a secret meeting with myself, and declare some sanctions of Keeper76. This should only take 2 or 3 minutes. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

MedRevise.co.uk

Hey, I thought you might be interested in this, since you are medically active! With a colleague I have set up a Medical Revision website, called MedRevise.co.uk. It is not trying to compete with Wikipedia, but trying to be something else useful, different and fun. If you are interested, please read our philosophy and just have a little look at our site. I would appreciate your feedback, and some contributions if you have the time. Thanks a lot! MedRevise (talk) 18:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks ...

... for this -- the editor, who is almost certainly User:Firefly322, no more knows when to give up than (s)he knows how to write good prose. I therefore consciously err on the side of caution, rather than allow my frustration to inadvertently drag me into an edit-war. You may find Issues in Science and Religion an interesting example of this editor's unique editing style. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk 18:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

query

[2] Did you intend to revert me? 86.44.27.255 (talk) 00:43, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely. That was not a personal attack on any editor (It's like saying the "Yankees Suck"). It does not violate ANY guidelines outlined in WP:TALK. I have a singular policy about user or article talk. No censoring, unless it is very specifically a personal attack. Don't censor is my advice to you. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:47, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

And please, don't take what I did as any type of criticism. The statement about Republicans was probably not necessary, but it did not have to be deleted. You may ask the editor who posted it to delete it (which is what I do, depending on the editor, in either or a nice or not so nice way.)OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:52, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

(ec) Okay, that's your call. But three specific editors had already opposed, it seemed clear to me that therefore "It's pointless to propose anything as long as the Republicans have their little dwarves around here to vote in mass against" refers to them. Having this kind of talk is going to lead to flame wars, bad faith, acrimony, as well as influence others into thinking this kind of discourse is acceptable, with similar consequences. I don't see how that leads to editing an article well, and in this specific case, the talk page is almost impractically busy enough without it. 86.44.27.255 (talk) 00:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, I long ago learned if you talk like that, you convince no one of anything. You ignore it. And really, we don't vote around here. It's forming a consensus. Kind of different thing. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:06, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm well aware of what we do around here, no idea why you're telling me that. Also I made no point that the comment may convince anyone. I did make the point that it was obviously a personal attack on the three editors who already opposed - that's got nothing to do with the rights and wrongs of the formatting of the section - and the point that it and your reversion of it likely hurts editing of the article. *shrug* 86.44.27.255 (talk) 01:14, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Please don't take offense. I didn't check out your contributions, I just see you're an IP. You used the word "vote", and I wanted to disabuse you of that particular train of thought. I doubt my reversion does anything of the nature. We shouldn't censor. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Don't think I used the word vote anywhere, OM, except to quote our admin friend of anti-rightwingmidgetshill fame. 86.44.27.255 (talk) 01:49, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

No offence was taken, btw, just some mild irritation that you had not been editing the page at a time when it was technically difficult to do so before dropping in, i think. I realize you were being friendly above.

On the wider point, having seen the Ossetia war talk page before this, i think there is a case for somewhat aggressive attempts to communicate an acceptable level of discourse on pages that a) are being read and edited by new users, and b) do not have the space for nonsense. I was not making it here, but the idea did inform my sole edit in this area, since i'm one of those guys who is not an enforcer or quoter of civility or personal attacks policies in any other context. But perhaps in contentious fast-moving contexts there is all the more danger of gaming and tactics and edit-warring being carried over into attempts to clerk, leading to even more fun! 86.44.22.206 (talk) 18:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I've been reading that page, just out of interest. The edit warring there is beyond belief. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal

You've been included in a case at the Mediation Cabal, Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-09-02 Relationship between religion and science. Feel free to put your two cents in. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 20:44, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

You misunderstood me there- the user who filed the MEDCAB accused some of the users of being on a "crusade" against them. I was trying to get them reassurance that the other editors were simply of like mind, not a roving gang. My apologies for the confusion. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 22:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah. We've worked together on articles, and have each other's talk pages on our watchlists. Haven't sent armies to the Holy Land or murdered any of its inhabitants lately. . . dave souza, talk 22:21, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I've been vandalizing User:Keeper76's page with several other editors. But seriously, there are a very large number of related articles that several devoted editors watch. Is the assumption that we divvy up articles, each editor only editing a few? Or instead, isn't amazing that a lot of smart, devoted, articulate and rational editors find the time and energy to edit these articles? And if someone seriously looks at my contributions, you'd see my editing overlaps with medical editors, science editors, and, in some odd places here and there, history, warfare, baseball, hockey,.....and it goes on and on. Am I in a cabal or "roving gang" in any of those places? I don't think so. Maybe the point is that there are anti-science editors who lack any support for their POV, so without any intellectual backing, they attack a "cabal". We should ignore them. And in the case of this particular mediation, the editor who requested it ought to take an English writing course, instead of causing this dramafest.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:25, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of drama, there's been a wee stushie at AN which, in my hopeful opinion, has led to reasonably wide agreement on the way forward.[3] .. dave souza, talk 17:46, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

True Blood

New vampire series on HBO in the US. I watched the first episode, and it's intriguing, though I'm not sure where the story is going quite yet. Anna Paquin stars in the show, and I believe she's from your part of the planet (meaning generally, not Oz itself). Anyways, I'm not sure when it hits TV in Oz, but you might find the story compelling. I'm not giving it 5/5 stars yet, but having vampires live in public amongst humans is really an interesting premise. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 15:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I read the book of this which was rather fun. Interesting. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Fungus. Vampires. Psychiatry. You're one strange dude.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I watched 15 minutes of the show last night. Anna Paquin, is um, well. She's hot. No other way to say it on wiki, per BLP. As for the show, it sucked. (pun intended). Keeper ǀ 76 21:26, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Anna Paquin is hot???? Huh? What are you smoking up there in the Land of 10,000 Lakes? As vampire movies go, Kate Beckinsale in Underworld and Underworld: Evolution is hot. Anna Paquin was marginally interesting in Almost Famous and in The Piano, but hot isn't a word I'd use. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

BTW Cas, I just watched Doomsday on video. Meh. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:34, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

You mean this one? Hmm, Dog Soldiers (film) was fantastic but The Descent has to be one of the worst films I have ever seen. Well, that's a sample size of two so I will be 150% better informed after I see that one....Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:04, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I have to say that the pilot of True Blood was awful. I cannot stand bad fake Southern accents. MastCell ^Talk 17:54, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Hear hear! It reminded me of Joey trying to sound I-talian. Keeper ǀ 76 17:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Remember Anna Paquin is a New Zealander. She's doing the NZ version of a southern American. And also she needs some dental work.  :) I didn't mind the pilot. I'll see if it develops. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:02, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Dental work? Why might that be? I dunno - it's no Deadwood, and probably not even a Big Love. MastCell ^Talk 18:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Oooh, now Big Love, there's a show I can sink my teeth into. (G-dam, I cannot stop the vampire lame jokes). Big Love has a fascinating premise, makes you think. If you are a manslut, and you impregnate lots of girls, you are the man. A stud even. And probably a deadbeat. (Think Maury quality). But if you marry each of the girls, provide them with food, shelter, morals, money, and stability, then you are a felon. Gotta love the double standard. BTW, Jean is my triple, nay, quadruple, horn (y). Keeper ǀ 76 18:32, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I enjoy Big Love because I lived in Utah for way too long. The takeaway for me is that having one wife is annoying, having several is more annoying. I pretty much destroys any male fantasies I might have for having several gorgeous wives at the same time. I'm cynical. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I understand, I'm married. I love my wife dearly, but I cannot even begin to fathom the lengthiness of the "Honeydew list" if I were to multiply the marriage licenses. That wasn't my point. Keeper ǀ 76 19:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I understood. You were making a social commentary about essential hypocrisy of it all. I see that, I just watch him getting nagged by three women at once. That does it for me! And a thumbs up on Ms Tripplehorn too. I saw her in a Starbucks this summer when they were filming the show (I happen to live near where both Big Love and Weeds are filmed--I've yet to run into Mary-Louise Parker). OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Weeds was good the first season, after that, how do you say, jumped the shark???. Jeanne is frickin hot. The other wives, not so much. Either too young (as in wife #3), or two skirty/braidy (wife #2). Barb Hendrickson rocks my world though... Keeper ǀ 76 20:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Next you're going to tell me that she looks like Sarah Palin. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

This is a much better thread, for hobby-sake, than the one directly below. Jeanne does not look like Sarah Palin. Jeanne doesn't wear glasses. That's blasphemy for you to say, it's like saying Clark Kent looks like Superman, when, obviously, they look nothing alike. Keeper ǀ 76 20:40, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

OK, now that you guys are discussing which of Bill Henrickson's wives is the hottest, there is officially no difference between this and my day job. I saw Jeanne Tripplehorn on Broadway waaayy back in the day; she played one of the Three Sisters (I think it was Masha). Good stuff, but then I'm a pushover for Chekhov. MastCell ^Talk 21:10, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Wait a minute. We went from talking about a marginal vampire TV show to Chekhov? I always preferred Sulu. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:06, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

You know, I used a quote from Ward No. 6 in a talk I gave awhile back, and I felt compelled to mention that I was quoting the Russian playwright and not the helmsman of the starship Enterprise. Isn't that sad? MastCell ^Talk 23:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

LOL. I wouldn't doubt it, except most individuals now think the helmsman of the Starship Enterprise is Data. Which makes me feel old. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:28, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

And Seven of Nine trumps everyone mentioned above. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

This thread hurts my brain. Too many colons. OM, you "claim" to be in the medical field. Any advice you're wiling to give to remove my colon(s)? Keeper ǀ 76 01:24, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

←This should work. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:46, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Dont' go overboard...

here. (aka - choose your battles) It's winding down. Both sides seem to be coming together amicably. Don't blow on the embers of the former flames please? Keeper ǀ 76 20:10, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Hrafn is being attacked by a group of POV pushers. This place is out of hand. I'm still pissed about the other comment I dropped on your page. Since I've chosen to ignore the immature rantings, I need to stand up for others who are getting hosed (not sure if that's Minnesotan or Canadian) in this project. But I'll lay off.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:21, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I completely understand your frustration, and I personally think it is justified. However, don't give "the other side" anything to link back to (in, or out of, context). Let the WQA die out on its own. No need to stoke. Keeper ǀ 76 20:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

In the past I've argued vociferously for deletion of WP:WQA as actively harmful to the project. I have seen nothing to make me change that assessment. Commenting at WQA only justifies its unjustifiable existence. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you should give Hafrn the same advice? Both of you? I think he's really pissed about this whole situation. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

(e/c re to basil)I completely agree that WQA is completely useless as a form of "dispute resolution". It only provides a place to release steam against someone else, usually one-sided, and almost unanimously without results (aka a block, admonishment, etc). It's almost as useless as RFC. That said, it is a goldmine for finding diffs to "fight your enemies" in escalated arenas, whichever side of a dispute you happen to land yourself on. I've been the subject of a WQA myself. It's icky and embarassing. It worked itself out okay, but had it not, what were the repercussions? Nothing, dare I say. Nothing. Keeper ǀ 76 20:39, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

This was just stage 1.[4] WP:NAM springs to mind :) dave souza, talk 20:56, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Literally and figuratively

In case you had any doubt, the Department of the Interior really has been in bed with the oil industry for the past 8 years. MastCell ^Talk 23:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Hell, I've been doing that for years. The Pharmaceutical Industry has been supplying me with money, wine, and sex, allowing me to retire with a villa in Tuscany. I get a new Ferrari for every 10 articles that I clean up removing all mention of Alternative Medicine. If I had known, I would be doing the same for the oil industry. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:46, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

dlph-4Kkkkk'kk oook reeeee eeee'kk squeek ack.

Multiple sclerosis

I have rewritten the genetics section. I have simplified it a lot, first because it can be more easily read as it is right now but second because my genetics knowledge is not very good. However I believe that now covers in a NPOV most important facts about genetics in the disease without much overlapping with the epidemiology section. Would you take a look at it? If I have time I will attack the other parts of the section next week.--Garrondo (talk) 13:51, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Guido

I've just put a comment here. I have tried to work with him, but it's just impossible. If the problem isn't sorted by tomorrow I think I'll start a thread on the administrators notice board about him. --Sciencewatcher (talk) 22:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Mango's response to my suggestion was less than helpful. But I agree that AN/I might be the next step. Many of these articles were peaceful until Guido's return. Also, I'm a bit confused. I thought he was blocked (before the NLT block) for edit-warring in these specific articles. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:39, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, have a look at Guido's block log and you'll see he's been blocked for edit warring 5 times, and for legal threats another few times. 3 of the blocks say he was edit warring on CFS, and I think one or two of the others were also on CFS. I'm going to make an attempt to work with him, but if it doesn't work I'll post a new section in the admin's page. --Sciencewatcher (talk) 14:31, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I just don't understand this place. GdB can be helpful to the project, but his editing degenerates into edit-warring quickly. He files frivolous complaints when things don't go his way, or he makes legal threats. How many chances do we expect he gets? Another 8 or 9 blocks? He has used up AGF long ago. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 14:44, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

3RR assistance

Thank you! I'll try it out next time. Most wiki-stuff has been fairly straightforward, but the 3RR report template is a headbanger, heh! cheers, --guyzero | talk 09:05, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I find some of the wiki-stuff to be so complicated. I have three screens going from my computer, cutting and pasting to get something done right. If you look on my user page, I have some helpful links to things I've discovered. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 14:28, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to your info, I was able to easily file my first 3RR (actually, a 15RR(!) [5]) on an article that really needs it this morning, thank you! regards, --guyzero | talk 18:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll send the bill to your email address. Please pay within 15 days.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:22, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I just looked up your report. That would have taken an hour without the tool. I'm doubling my bill. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:24, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

SO I went looking, and saw, and thought, "Oh I'll try the nth edit one." And lo, my 15k edit is me fixing a horrid grammatical error (of mine own, mind you.) [6] I don't think I'll forgive you anytime soon. KillerChihuahua^?!? 18:30, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

What tool? Keeper ǀ 76 18:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, you're a tool. But that's beside the point. It's the 3RR tool. See my user page. I have a collection of cool tools that help out editing. You know what editing is? Do you? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh and I think he was talking about the milestone tool, not the 3RR tool. Since I had a post about it and all. Maybe not though. KillerChihuahua^?!? 18:49, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

You're right. Milestone tool.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

(e/c)3rr tool is useless to me, I just block em. What's the milestone tool? That's the one I was talking about, as I thought was obvious by my colon-ized reply to killer chihuahua, who obviously was not talking about such non-adminny trivialities like 3rr reporting..Keeper ǀ 76 18:52, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I keep forgetting that you're a lazy ass. Of course, you'd never use the 3RR tool. Just try the milestone tool. It's kind of useless, as things go around this project, but fun. You can find your nth edit on this project. Like my 1000th edit. I haven't a clue why I was editing that article. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Following KC's lead, I checked my 15000th. (yes, I have that many...). It would have to be to my own talkpage. Dammit. The world is cruel and relentless....I'm wondering how many random nths I'd have to try before I found a mainspace diff.... Keeper ǀ 76 18:58, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

And it mentions the mysterious admin paycheck.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:00, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

There is no admin paycheck. Actually there is. It's exactly a million times greater than your editor paycheck. Keeper ǀ 76 19:01, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow. I've heard it said that you pay $5.00 for GA's and $10.00 for FA's, that means you make a lot. And underpay us editors. (BTW, you're not going to win, especially if I have to keep seeing that damn orange banner at the top.)OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:07, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm just trying to make sure that your 20,000th edit is to your own talkpage, or perhaps more statistically feasible, mine. Be careful, you're getting close to Keeper zone, you only have 42 percent mainspace, along with 32% usertalk. Heh. Myspacer. (of course, my usertalk and my "Wikipedia:" edits are both higher than my mainspace....) Keeper ǀ 76 19:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

(It should also terrify you that, according to the above linked SQL report, you've made 102 edits to User talk:Keeper76. Keeper ǀ 76 19:17, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

It's interesting that the User talk list would indicate that whatever "cabal" I belong to, it's an odd one. And of course, my article edits indicate that I actually contribute useful articles to this project. You know what you have done? Pissed me off about this cabal bullshit again. Now I have to drink and take a few valium. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:20, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

You know, when the pill bottle says: "Alcohol may intensify the effect of this medication," it's meant as a warning, not a suggestion. MastCell ^Talk 19:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

L. O. L. Keeper ǀ 76 19:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

And the point is what? LOL. Kind of like ED medication with a black box warning that "if your erection lasts longer than 4 hours, please see your physician." Every guy is thinking, "give me 10." OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Clearly you haven't worked in an ER since the advent of widespread recreational Viagra use. Once you've had to call down a urologist to aspirate blood from the corpus cavernosum of some unfortunate victim, you'll look at those warnings with more respect. MastCell ^Talk 19:53, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

(Goes through his medicine cabinet while he waits for OM's bill) --guyzero | talk 19:57, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

When I worked in the ER, we used leeches.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:02, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

After 4 hours, I'd gladly go see my physician. Considering, of course, who my dream physician is.... Keeper ǀ 76 20:17, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

What is it with you and these blah looking women. I mean Jane Seymour was all right in her day (25 years ago), but this physician is one that would turn me into a corpse. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:50, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Physician? I thought she was a pathologist? Next you'll be trying to pass radiologists off as doctors. MastCell ^Talk 22:26, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

As long as you go to Medical school, get a medical license, and wear scrubs and/or lab coat, you're officially a physician, even if all you do is look at dead people or pictures of bones. I know, I wouldn't trust them to treat a cold. But Jordan is hot. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:36, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow - that milestone tool is amazing - it really captures major milestones

• 5,000th was the creation of Spilotes pullatus, which is an article I created as part of the process of getting List of snakes of Trinidad and Tobago up to an FL
• 10,000th was a revert on the ID article
• 15,000th was to List of trees of the Caribbean - one of my great failures, but still, the article that spun off my second FL
• 20,000th was tagging an article with the banner of the Caribbean WikiProject
• 25,000th was the creation of Coccothrinax fagildei, which is an article I created as part of the process of getting my second FL, List of palms of the Caribbean up to FL status.

Sweet! Guettarda (talk) 19:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

That tool is getting more hits from this page than it's probably gotten in the last month from everywhere else. Considering the number of people who watch this place, it could be fun. Now for real fun, I'm going to take a close look at Keeper's contributions. I'm going to see what he really does around here. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:04, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

<Runs and hides.... Keeper ǀ 76 20:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm so ashamed:

• edit number 5000: talkpage of another admin (during his RFA)
• edit number 10000: talkpage of an article (a little better I suppose)
• edit number 15000: my own talkpage
• edit number 20000: hasn't happened yet, but my money is on a talkpage...

I hate that tool. Lying milestone bastards. Here's hoping for a good 20K. Keeper ǀ 76 21:39, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

But you sure have a fancy-brand way with your edit summaries. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 21:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

He's colon obsessed. I think he needs more fiber in his diet. Oh, I was wondering when Ray Ray would show up to this conversation. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Then I looked up his 10000th edit. It was some minor housekeeping, not even a real contribution. Who voted for him in his RfA??????? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:53, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I passed RFA by fluke and circumstance, and I've said it before. I'd never pass in today's vitriolic atmosphere. If anyone is looking to run, run in January. Most RFa regulars are hibernating then it seems, or are too cold to give a shit regardless. Hell, I wasn't the only one to sneak through in Jan 08.... :-) Keeper ǀ 76 21:57, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

You do realize that it was a rhetorical question, the answer to which I already knew, not a real question. Trying to be funny and all. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:03, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Um yeah, I knew that. Mine was a rhetorical answer, one you weren't supposed to question....Keeper ǀ 76 22:04, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Re:Keeper's RFA—Well I didn't vote for [him]. :) Guettarda (talk) 01:39, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Herpes Zoster:

• My 5000th edit was about getting GA status for the article.
• My 10000th edit was removing an image from the article.

And I've yet to get that article to FA status. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:05, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

You want me to help you get Shingles to FA? Do you not know who I am?  :-). Seriously, what does it need? I need a good project. Keep in mind that I don't edit weekends, I don't have access to scholarly sources, and I'm in general, a complete dumbshit. But I knew someone once that had shingles. Perhaps I could copyedit as a "subject expert" :-) Keeper ǀ 76 22:09, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

What do you do on weekends? Fishing? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Weekends are mine. Wife. Life. Dog. Yard. House. Chores. Drinking. You know, suburbia. Keeper ǀ 76 00:52, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah... suburbia. MastCell ^Talk 04:25, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

And this is precisely why this boy is not married, does not have a dog (in fact is a cat person), rides a motorcycle to the office (because, unlike the the Land of 10,000 ice covered lakes, I can ride 11.5 months per year), and occasionally edit this damn encyclopedia. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 07:21, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Some light reading

It's not very often that "Minnesota" and our "niceness" are the subjects of an article in the Jerusalem Post. Not very often at all. Yet, I have a hunch you still wouldn't vote for Mr. Coleman :-) Keeper ǀ 76 16:59, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

That is a great article. I never thought about the "Jewish" Senate seat until I read it. Actually, when I lived up there in the Land of 10 Trillion Mosquitoes for one winter, there were a couple of very good Jewish delis in Golden Valley (I believe, since it's been about 15 years). And yes, Al Franken is the man. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:31, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Al Franken is single handedly losing the election, without coleman's help. Shame. Keeper ǀ 76 18:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

That is a shame. I won't go into my personal feelings about Norm Coleman, but his career arc is curious. The guy was a roadie for Ten Years After, which is badass, and opined in his college newspaper that "these conservative kids don't fuck or get high like we do." He was a committed DFL-er who idolized Bobby Kennedy, George McGovern, Warren Spannaus, Hubert Humphrey, Walter Mondale, and probably a bunch of other America-hating pinkos. And then Karl Rove whispers in his ear and he's suddenly a party-line, the-Senate's-job-is-to-make-end-of-life-decisions-about-Terri-Schiavo culture warrior who voted with Bush 98% of the time? I must be missing something. Are these the negative long-term consequences of marijuana use that we hear so much about? But really, the biggest problem I have with him is that his staff tried to whitewash his Wikipedia biography. MastCell ^Talk 19:36, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Apparently grasshopper, you're too young to remember the The Manchurian Candidate (1962 film) (and not the crappy remake). It's the right-wing's plot to control our hearts and minds. And Ten Years After? I have to light a bong to think about that! OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:41, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't advise that; their music already seems to go on interminably as it is. MastCell ^Talk 19:55, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I cannot find one Ten Years After song that I actually recall. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I think that rather proves my point. In any case, I think they used I'd Love To Change The World in Fahrenheit 9/11, and I'm sure you've seen that like a thousand times. MastCell ^Talk 22:33, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Really, you don't remember the infamous "I'm Going Home" from Woodstock? Kids these days... Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:21, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

(re to mastcell ec with OM)Everything else aside, you do realize that the Wikinews article starts with the Joe Biden staffers, right? That's blockable on OMs page to slight Joe Biden indirectly or directly. And Boeheim is a genius. Keeper ǀ 76 19:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Damn straight. And Biden/Boeheim. Tell me you've seen them in the same place at the same time. Hmmmmmmm. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:48, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

My biggest problem there is that Biden's staffers should have had the ironic sensibility to replace his Wikipedia article with plagiarized biographical material. MastCell ^Talk 19:49, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think politicians get irony. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:52, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you kidding? The last 8 years have been filled with examples of irony. MastCell ^Talk 20:13, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Just because they were ironic, doesn't mean that they actually understand it. I believe that the right wing wasn't being ironic, just cynical. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:30, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

You say potato... MastCell ^Talk 22:28, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I say tomahto. Keeper ǀ 76 00:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of books, now chuckling out loud reading the third vampire/detective book by Charlie Huston, shipped fresh from the yew ess of aye...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

This page is like crack for me. Democratic political commentary, medicine and vampire books. Throw in a few jokes, a pharmacy budget or two and maybe a Deathstalker reference, and this page could be the real world projection of my mind. Avruch ^T 03:40, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, but wait, there's more. We have Jewish politicians, baseball, bad 60's music except no dope, and analysis of Wikipedia editing habits. It's a fine, aged crack. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 07:19, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Single malt. MastCell ^Talk 23:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Cool things one learns from updating DYK

Got lumbered with refreshing the main page a few times...but looky..this film looks cool --> Homam (film), a bollywood remake of The Departed which itself borrowed heavily from the really cool HK film Infernal Affairs...must have a squiz at it some day...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:32, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I just saw The Fearless Vampire Killers by Roman Polanski--I didn't know the director of the Pianist, a movie that just brings me to tears every time I see it, made comedy. Anyways, sticking to the blood drinking theme, it would be an interesting addition. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

There's a bunch of hammer vamp films, amusing in retrospect. I made sure Alfie Bass's bit remained in his bio article.. :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Roman Polanski is a comic genius. Chinatown was a laff riot. MastCell ^Talk 04:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

You know, for a young tyke, you certainly know a lot of old-timer stuff. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think I'm almost ready to be Vice President. MastCell ^Talk 04:41, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Been to Canada? Heck, they speak two languages there - you can call it TWO countries!! Guettarda (talk) 04:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

As best I can tell, the equation is simple. Physical distance from Washington, DC is the best indicator that someone will fight entrenched corruption. Physical proximity to Russia equals foreign-policy experience. I am running for city selectman in Dutch Harbor, Alaska, which will logically be the best possible preparation to lead an incredibly diverse nation of 300 million people. MastCell ^Talk 05:01, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Who the hell put Sarah Plain on my user talk page???? Those stories belong at User talk:Keeper76. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 05:20, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I intiially thought The Pianist musta been a comedy from the way you worte it above..Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:32, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Quick question...

Why does the link in your user box in the right corner of your user page (The "Suggestions are welcome." one) direct you too KrakatoaKatie's talk page? :) « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 21:40, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Because I ripped off her page, and didn't know the code was hidden in there. Or, better yet, I don't want to answer questions, and she should. LOL. Well, let me find that, and fix it. Good catch. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:44, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Haha I thought it was pretty funny that you would direct comments to others' talk pages! « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 21:53, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

You have to admit, it's a bit devious.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Never mind. Now I know what it is. That box is created by KrakatoaKatie with useless but humorous bits of trivia for the day or week. I believe once it had be kind to sheep week or something. There's probably a thread about people making rude and crass comments. So anyways, it's a userbox that she maintains, and if you have an idea for today, it does redirect to her. So, not only did I steal the format of my page from her (and frankly a few others), I stole the userbox.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Yep, you are definitely devious! You would think at some point KrakatoaKatie would start wondering why she is getting random messages on her talk page! :) « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 22:02, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

ewww

Last time I stalked you, I got an amusing Creationist Museum in a double-wide trailer. This time I get a kooky 1930's Sex Magic err, philosophy, and you haven't even bothered to post on the talk page. Seriously, OM, next time you're neck deep in a content / NPOV dispute, after the first couple of edit summaries have no effect, you ought to try the talk page. It can be far more productive and effective, and makes it much easier to work things out than carrying on a discussion via edit summaries. KillerChihuahua^?!? 03:25, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk pages are for weenies. "Never apologize, never explain." Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 04:19, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Kooky 1930's Sex, Magic, and philosophy, and you didn't tell me? Want me to miss out on all the fun? Now you've got me thinking of getting ahold of the DVD of W.R.: Mysteries of the Organism, and I certainly advise you young'uns to watch it, assuming they didn't do re-runs when you were old enough to be allowed into the cinema to see it. Hrumph. dave souza, talk 06:52, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Post on a talk page, when a short edit summary is sufficient? As a firm believer in WP:TLDR (and I replied to an email from a subordinate with that tag...I wasn't thinking), I choose to read the long-winded diatribes found on talk pages. Have any of you noticed that there are editors, who if they don't get their way, they discuss it with slight variations of verbiage to say the exact same thing. And of course, when 5 words would do, they require 273? I don't have time to read that crap. Bullet point. Give a source if necessary. Move on. Wait a minute. I'm ranting. And Dave will next be bringing up "Ten Years After" the early years. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 07:25, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Its a common response; when off wp, the correct syntax is "tl;dr". HTH. KillerChihuahua^?!? 11:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

You mssspelled it's. HTH. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:46, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

<UD> HTH = Internet slang for "How The Hell?", "Hope This Helps", "Hope That Helps", "Happy To Help", "Hit The Hay", or "Hand To Hand". WTF? . . dave souza, talk 08:09, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

WTF?

Why does your userpage "remind" me that today is Rosh Hashanah? RH is September 29, fella. Get with the program - it's not 5761 anymore. MastCell ^Talk 05:04, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I stole that userbox from KrakatoaKatie. Serves me right I suppose. Except I fell out of my chair, wondering how I was going to be ready for guests. You're not bad for goyim.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 07:32, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I hear Christmas is on December 25 again this year. (Apparently the date for RH wasn't updated from 2007. You'd think people would understand how these things work.) Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:45, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

But is New Year's Day still on January 1? I get confused so easily these days. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:38, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Not if you're using the old calendar. Well, it's still Jan. 1, but Jan. 1 isn't Jan. 1 Guettarda (talk) 02:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, I may be an Israel-hating anti-Semite—why else would I object to IronDuke's editing?—but I do try to keep track of the High Holy Days. MastCell ^Talk 04:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you should stick with something safer like Global warming.  :) I always celebrate Darwin's birthday pasting the Darwin Fish sticker on all the cars parked in the local church's parking lot. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 05:17, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Anyone used to ask my dad where he was from and he'd say, "earth"...I just love the materialism of most of them (holidays that is... :)) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:31, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Catherineyronwode at DOS AfD

Catherineyronwode has removed upon request the offending remarks from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daylight Origins Society. I doubt that we can get through this without some degree of rancor, but I would at least like to get the worst of the sniping off the AfD page. Would you be willing to strike or remove your off-topic comments? I am making the same request of Malcolm Schosha. - Eldereft (cont.) 18:11, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Never mind, the discussion is closed now. - Eldereft (cont.) 19:28, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Ernie Davis

I guess they had the world premiere in Syracuse eh? Glad to hear that they did a good job with the movie, although it's hard to imagine that it's going to sell a lot of tickets... By the way, I still have the header for the 78-79 basketball season in my sandbox if you're interested in creating the page. GoCuse44 (talk) 03:12, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Doctor, doctor!

Send me some pills,[7] or perhaps not.[8] Essential reading for the woo fighters around here. . dave souza, talk 09:43, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Don't even get me started. A bunch of vitamins do nothing more than give you really expensive urine. And in some cases destroy the liver. And let's hope the AIDS denialists in South Africa get a brain. It's too bad it did not go to trial, so that Rath would have no plausible deniability, "the courts decided nothing."OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 14:58, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, I guess I should be happy that Ben Goldacre won the libel suit, since I've also been "outed" and been the subject of what I consider veiled legal threats from the good Doctor Rath. MastCell ^Talk 04:16, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

They finally figured out that you are Elvis????? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 05:11, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, I do like meatloaf and watching TV, but the similarities end there. MastCell ^Talk 05:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I didn't know Elvis listened to Meat Loaf? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 05:21, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't it deep-fried peanut butter sandwiches or somesuch? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

At his rather rotund BMI at death, let's assume it was all of the above. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

<--- Don't knock them till you try them (in moderation ;) ). spryde | talk 17:16, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Deja moo all over again

See here, although I don't want to take over his page. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:51, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

PS, can you remind me which FAC that was, and point me to the talk page sections where the drama unfolded? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:05, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're asking here. The only FAC where I crossed paths with UnaSmith was Herpes zoster, and I believe she derailed the FAC, but I could just be cranky. Otherwise, I'm not sure what this is all about.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:02, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

That's the one, thanks. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:24, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Equine Project has similar: Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts/archive50#User:Montanabw. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

LOL. I'd give them moral support, but maybe they'll distract her. Check the edit history (last week or so) for Alzheimer's disease. Sigh. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:09, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

depressed

Been working on this baby which has, ahem, grown a bit. Recently been given a high colonic by delldot and looks the better for it. I have gone goggle-eyed at it and am aware of the likelihood of oodles of glitches in the mammoth prose. Luckily is 46 kb of redable prose so we are under...Whaddya reckon? Any major logic flaws before FAC? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Let me blunt. It needs work. There are a lot of "bullet points" which are not very encyclopedic. Bullet points are great in a memo to a subordinate, but in an encyclopedia, I think we can do better. And then there's the alternative medicine section. Way too much weight is given to frankly bullshit. DHEA, for example, has all kinds of evidence that it does nothing, especially in the elderly. And long-term safety and efficacy is unknown. Now that you got me involved, I'm attacking that section. All of the Alternative medicine hooey is going to be condensed into one small sentence. Take a look at what we did with Alzheimer's disease. Alternative medicine crap is concentrated into a couple of sentences. Remember, and I hate lecturing a fellow doc, but as long as the masses of humanity come to this article for their first medical information, you don't want them heading down to the local drug store to buy up DHEA to fix their depression. In fact, on a slightly related point, St. John's wort, does not work definitively. In fact, everything I've read is that the quantities necessary to have a clinical effect has not been determined, and at those high levels required to have an effect, it may be toxic. So, please don't regret that you asked, but I think the article is close to being FA worthy, but give me shot at cleaning up some of the prose. Oh, as a favor, go fix hypertension with me! OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:02, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh fuck....hypertension is one colossal headache....you planning on making that your next magnum opus....I started reading but my blood pressure rose and I got depressed...will look again but where to start???? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:37, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

For the stalkers, vandalizers and various other ne'er-do-wells who watch my page

True Blood Episode 2 wasn't so bad. It brought in some Vampire mythology that was interesting. Although I don't get the inviting into the home thing. I'm sure our resident shrink can help me out there. Of course, the only reason I watched it was it follows Entourage, which is just like a good chocolate...I shouldn't but it's just too good. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:57, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Of course you have seen User:ArielGold, at the bottom of this thread I mentioned entourage but she hadn't heard of it. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:21, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Users who endorse the above summary

1. Support per nom. Keeper ǀ 76 19:01, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
2. Marklar per marklar. --B (talk) 19:05, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Users who disagree with the above summary

1. First of all, anyone who's seen the best vampire movie of all time understands the invitation thing. Secondly, the episode retained the pilot's major flaw: bad fake Southern accents. And poor pacing. And one-dimensional and somewhat unlikeable characters. The batty grandmother is kind of like fingernails on a chalkboard. MastCell ^Talk 19:56, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
2. Support per anti-nom. Wooden staked my previous !vote. Keeper ǀ 76 19:58, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   I feel so influential. Or maybe I just canvassed you off-wiki... MastCell ^Talk 20:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   I just replied to your email. Oh wait....I don't have email enabled....Keeper ǀ 76 20:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   MC's vote should be disqualified for being a sockpuppet master of Keeper76. Anyone who thinks the Lost boys is the best vampire movie of all time is smoking something noxious. The best vampire movie of all time is From Dusk till Dawn. Give me a break. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:10, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   Hey! I'm nobody's sockpuppet! Keeper76 ^Talk 20:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   Go vote at the Rfa for Cirt. Depending on your vote, you should be accused of being a sockpuppet in about 10 minutes. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   Um, Cirt's RFA is closed dude. Yesterday's newspaper, today's catbox liner. Get with the program! (and I'm pretty sure I supported that one, but meh, I support nearly everyone that has the balls to go to RFA....) Keeper ǀ 76 22:17, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   I bet you don't have the balls to vote for me!!!!! OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   I would vote for you. The final tally of course, would probably be 1-8457-8. Me as support, 8,457 as uncontestable opposes, and 8 people that are perennial fence-sitters, including MastCell. Zing! Did that get you going MC??? Did it? 'Cuz I don't mean it, just want you to get zinged....:-) Keeper ǀ 76 22:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   You mean, I can't vote for myself? That sucks. And I beg to differ. It would be 1-8452-16. MastCell will canvass all of his buddies to vote neutral. Just so I don't feel so bad. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:25, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   Are you saying that MastCell only has 8 buddies!?!?!? That's a personal attack!!!!. He cleary and without question has at least 11. Keeper ǀ 76 22:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   MC's socks cannot be counted. And besides, his socks are bit daft, so they may just randomly vote to support. You just never know. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

   8457??? You should go for it - you would be the only member of WP:8000. --B (talk) 23:04, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Users who can't comment on the above summary 'cos they don't live in the Yew Ess of ^%&^$$&%*$& Ay.....

1. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Users who can't comment on the above summary 'cos they don't have HBO

1. Guettarda (talk) 20:23, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

   Comment Your vote should be deleted per WP:VERIFY. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:29, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

   How about <ref>My cable bill</ref>? Guettarda (talk) 02:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

2. KillerChihuahua^?!? 22:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC) You people are all nuts. Vampire movies are: Nosferatu, the Bella Lugosi Dracula, Love at first Bite, and Shadow of the Vampire. finis.
3. Two Words. Perfect Creature, Dougray Scott. Awright, four words. But well worth a look. Aunt Entropy (talk) 03:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

   I'm sorry, are you recommending this? KillerChihuahua^?!? 15:51, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

The vampire books are always better than the visual stuff, but both suffer from an overabundance of crap. Unfortunately, supply is limited so I've both read and watched my fair share of crap. How does True Blood stack up against Moonlight (TV Series) and Kindred: The Embraced? Avruch ^T 17:10, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

My RfA

Thank you for your participation at my RfA, which passed with a count of (166/43/7). I appreciate your comments and in my actions as an administrator I will endeavor to act in ways that earn your full confidence, even though I don't have it now. Cirt (talk) 01:33, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

multiple sclerosis

Since I work with MS patients I know it much better than Alzheimer, with the only big exception of the pathophisiology, but I think I can fix it with some reading and asking some of my companions, but copy-editing would be great. For the moment I have finished with all sections but prognosis, pathophisiology and causes. It needed some rewritting and a lot of referencing, but I won't be difficult to maintain the FA status. Of course if you need some help for any other article (about neurology or psychiatry) just ask and I'll see what can I do.

User:Hrafn

Thanks for commenting at ANI/User:Hrafn in the Can we just drop this matter? section. I really hope that Hrafn does come back and resume the good work, but even if he doesn't the issue is hardly moot. There was a massive personal attack on Hrafn and on the principle of WP:V that disputed unsourced material can be removed at any time. Sure, it's good to give some time for sources to be found, and Hrafn was doing that, but we can't have text lacking a reliable source being kept in just because someone likes articles based entirely on the publicity blurb of non-notable organisations. The principle has to stand for whoever is doing clean up, and the threat of accusations like those made about Hrafn has to be lifted. Thanks again, dave souza, talk 22:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm actually appalled that individual editors, for whom personal attacks are combined with a lack of understanding of WP:NPOV, WP:VERIFY, WP:RS and WP:NOR. They then attempt to drive off the Hrafn. Someone needs to stand up to them. Please note the additional personal attacks. It appears that a group is joining together to attack several editors, such as myself, who's involvement has been minimal. It's very frustrating to do good work around here, and get constantly attacked by editors who don't understand the principle of WP:NPA. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:04, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I made a comment, after review of the history, regarding Hrafn, at ANI (or was it AN?). Same thing. Just sayin. Keeper ǀ 76 23:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I think all Minnesotans are just too nice. One day a coworker and I were rushing down 169 from Plymouth to get to the airport. There was this huge line of cars going on 35E. And every freaking one of you dutifully got in line at the back. I thought that was ridiculous, and knowing the nice nature of the Minneapolis driver, I sped down the left lane, cut in right before the turnoff, and someone let me in. Probably thought I was a lost soul or something, but I had figured out how to manipulate Minnesota drivers several years back. So that's my story.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:05, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm one of those rare Minnesotans that refuses to "get in line", and usually I will be the one following you (and other tourist) down the left lane. I've yet to be honked at, yet to be refused entry. So yeah, you're right (this one time...). I take advantage of Minnesotans as often as I can, which is usually daily. Keeper ǀ 76 00:12, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

A sad outcome

A sad outcome as the result of pov pushing culminating in this collection of ludicrous allegations. . . dave souza, talk 15:53, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Syracuse University

Since you are working on the university page, I thought you could use the university's seal. Image:Syracuse_University_Seal.gif Hope that helps your updating of that page. Take Care and Have a Good Wednesday...NeutralHomer • Talk 23:41, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I was looking for that!!!! Thanks!. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

You're Welcome, glad I could help :) - NeutralHomer • Talk 23:43, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Language of evolution

Hey OM, here is an interesting suggestion. I am throwing this up for discussion for a few of the more evolution-minded editors...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:15, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikirelativity

Time is different here than in reality. One can reform from a vandal to admin-worthy candidate in three months (a wikilifetime), yet an article that sits for nearly three years without sources is too speedily deleted (a wikisecond).

Someone smart needs to splain this to me. Aunt Entropy (talk) 02:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

You think I understand this place??? LOL. I see a group of productive, NPOV editors having to deal with a group of whiny, POV editors supported by whiny, POV admins. I'm doing my best to edit, and ignoring the drama. BTW, what's the article? Enough high-quality admins (Keeper76 maybe is close to that point) can help out at times. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:27, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

It was just some article that sat for over 1000 days unsourced that not one inclusive editor cared about until after it was deleted. Nothing to worry about. Just thought it was curious. On the RFA page, three months is forever. On AFD, it's a microsecond. These anti-abortionistsdeletionists should take care of the unwanted youngins if they wish to carry on like they do. Aunt Entropy (talk) 02:54, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

New Thought

I raised your objection to the article' introduction on the Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard here [9]. I think that the Fringe theories/Noticeboard a good place to discuss the issue, and you might want to explain your objections there. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 11:34, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I completely forgot about that noticeboard. Thanks....I'll add my $0.02 there. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 13:57, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I just reverted your edit. Rather engage in an edit war, I recommend that you discuss your health warning disclaimer on Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard, particularly here [10]...or you could start a new thread. That would give an environment to discuss your concerns which no one could claim is biased toward fringe theory. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 16:06, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

New Thought believes the energy of Spirit, God works through everything so we do believe in the use of medical treatment along side of Spiritual Mind Treatment. Take a look at Faith healing.Thanks74.73.176.161 (talk) 18:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

But whatever you do, do not look back a year or so to when one of our happy friendly tendentious editors was arguing that every other sentence in Faith healing#Criticism should be But this does not apply to New Thought. Meh. The mainstream should always be yielded the most weight in tone, though not necessarily in word count. - Eldereft (cont.) 19:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Since you're a Darwinian...

... you probably noticed: the Church of England mentioned that perhaps they owe Charles Darwin an apology, and that a belief in natural selection is not incompatible with Christian faith. MastCell ^Talk 21:34, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, you can never be too late on an apology. Apparently, the Church of England read WP:NPA, and decided that they didn't want to be blocked. BTW, please describe me correctly--I am a blood-sucking, virgin-deflowering, Jewish, atheistic, anti-Christian, evolutionist. Sheesh. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:44, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I thought "Darwinist" implicitly covered all of those bases. MastCell ^Talk 21:46, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

(e/c)Seriously, why the "anti-Christian"? Are you "anti-Christian tenets" or "anti-Christian people". That's really harsh. Keeper ǀ 76 21:47, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Please tell me you failed to note the high degree of sarcasm in my response. I just assembled all the epithets thrown my way for being a "Darwinist." I might have missed something like sacrificing house cats or something. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I must protest. MastCell, non-Jewish people can be Darwinists too! --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

All protests must be taken up on AN/I. Them's the rules. And make sure you throw in the fact that Keeper76 contributed to the problem. Just saying. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

My job as an admin is to contribute to the problem. Just sayin. Keeper ǀ 76 22:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

And Boeheim is the greatest. Just saying. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:05, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Boeheim is a genius. I think he's prolly a Christian though. Just sayin. Keeper ǀ 76 22:08, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Boeheim is a Zoroastrian. He's on record as crediting Ahura Mazda for the team's success. MastCell ^Talk 22:16, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that's a BLP violation. Anyone wanna step up and block MastCell (again???) Keeper ǀ 76 22:17, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm looking for a source... hold on. OK, I'm pretty sure he blamed Angra Mainyu for ending up in the NIT the last few years... MastCell ^Talk 22:19, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain he couldn't even pronounce that name. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:23, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Really? But he's a genius! And just so I don't end up blocked and have to unblock myself again, I should clarify that I'm joking and I have no evidence that Jim Boeheim is a Zoroastrian (not that there's anything wrong with that). MastCell ^Talk 22:31, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

BTW, I can verify that Boeheim's wife is hotter than Sara Palin. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:42, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

That's supposed to be a contest?LeadSongDog (talk) 04:21, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Could be even more evil, could be godless Buddhist Darwinist like me. I'm even so evil as to oppose non-adult WP admins! Bwaahahahahaha.... Aunt Entropy (talk) 22:30, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

No, that's not evil. You're just implementing the Four Noble Truths: separation from adminship is suffering (though, to be fair, adminship is suffering too). The root of suffering is a desire for adminship. The dissipation of the desire for adminship is the cessation of suffering. The way to that cessation is to shoot down RfA's 1 through 8 until the applicant finally decides they don't want to be an admin anymore, at least until they turn 17. MastCell ^Talk 22:40, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Exactly what do you read during your spare time MC??? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:41, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Er... Eastern Religion For Dummies? :) MastCell ^Talk 16:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

You do realize that exists, right? Keeper ǀ 76 18:41, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

MC, that's actually a brilliant encapsulation of what underlies "the RFA problem". Guettarda (talk) 02:10, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

An apology

I just wanted to apologize if I caused any offence here. You see, I misinterpreted your comment and thought the "Oh, this is too rich" (because it was left right after my comment) was directed towards me. While trying to find reviewers for the page, I've had more than one user say I should work on a more important article, so your comment unintentionally struck a nerve. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 14:20, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

No apology necessary. If you notice on Keeper's talk page, whatever opportunity I have to bust him, I will do. He deserves it, since it's well known he's one of the highest paid admins on the project. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:47, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Question for OM and his TPWs...

I've been toying with the idea of writing short articles for this guy and this guy, but I'm not finding the sort of coverage that meets the guideline (why isn't there an academic-specific subset?). Thoughts? No idea what the h-index of either is - Brenn has 152 hits on Google Scholar, Packard only 37. I suspect they aren't notable enough, but the articles would be handy for the next family reunion... Avruch ^T 17:32, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, there is WP:PROF, which are notability guidelines specific to academics. In practice, I have been told that anyone who reaches the rank of full professor is de facto notable. I don't agree with that view, but it tends to prevail at AfD. Actually, I see someone has codified it in WP:PROF: anyone who has reached "the highest academic rank" (typically professor) at a major university is officially notable, so I seem to be at odds with the guideline there. Packard is a professor emeritus at SUNY, so he qualifies there; not sure about Brenn. Hope that's helpful. MastCell ^Talk 17:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah, right. Maybe it should be given a header with a link in the WP:BIO article (instead of just in the infobox on the right) for slow people like me who expect to find it mentioned explicitly under "people." According to PubMed, Brenn hasn't really written a lot of individual papers (even the old man wrote more as a fellow in the 70s) - but he's co-author of a textbook, so perhaps that accounts for the Google hits. If you disagree with the de facto notability of professors, what would you suggest? Not amenable to consistent criteria, perhaps? Avruch ^T 18:02, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

If you could summarise succinctly what key development or piece of knowledge they are notable for with some references you (or they) should be safe. This is actually quite self-explanatory. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 18:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Packard isn't an "old guy". But otherwise, I'm wondering how notable they are. I'm wondering if a standard should be whether a bio is linked to another article. For example, if I'm writing an article on Upstate Medical Center, would I even mention "old guy". I might mention Elizabeth Blackwell but not David Packard. Unless Dr. Packard is the heir to the H-P fortune. Then..... OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

The only thing I'd worry about with a standard like that is when you have folks who do their research through a place like the Institute for Advanced Study. With all the luminaries, important but more terrestrial scientists would get left out of the institutional article. Avruch ^T 19:04, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

BTW, what's a TPW? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

It's a bastardization of TPS, of which I am one. Keeper ǀ 76 18:42, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

And not just any sort of TPS - an official one. Though I'm rather curious about how one gets from S to W... Guettarda (talk) 18:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, d'uh. Just add the prefix "wiki-"... Guettarda (talk) 18:48, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly, if you look up Packard's contribs via the ISI index, it looks like his main contributions are to avian development - of the 51 papers listed, the most highly cited (30+ citations) are the chick development stuff...and, incidentally, are the ones in which he is first or second author of 1-4. The problem is that people don't write about academics unless they do something controversial. It's hard to develop a good sense of someone's contributions without searching a citation index, but it's even more difficult to convert something like that into a reasonable article without running into OR problems. Guettarda (talk) 18:45, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, at first I thought it had something to do with a temporary pacemaker wire...then, it didn't make sense. Then I gave up. Talk page Whore, right? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:47, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk-page watcher. Thanks folks. And OM - David isn't a spring chicken, but I was referring to my old man (father, maybe its a New England thing?) rather than him. Well, they're both old, but that isn't what I meant! Avruch ^T 18:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of TPW's....Keeper, I go out of my way to bait you with a Sarah Palin comment or two on this page. You never bite. It's getting boring. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Wait, who's Sarah Palin? Is she somebody famous or something? Someone from Family Guy? Keeper ǀ 76 18:54, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I believe that's the name Michael Palin uses in sketches where he's in drag. Guettarda (talk) 19:05, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Our bios on marginally notable individuals such as this are ticking legal and ethical time bombs. The creators doubtless mean well but in a volunteer project like this people come and go. Such articles are apt to become little watched and thus ripe for any vandal or grudge-holder to get their licks in. Sadly, all attempts to apply sane criteria for notability are fiercely resisted. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 21:21, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Boris, you've become cynical and cranky in your old age. Just saying. But you're probably right. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:23, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

A meta view

Since my addition of the subsection above, these have been discussions which you might find interesting about meta views and the like at WP:ANI#Sad outcome, WP:ANI#Massive POV push? and here. . . dave souza, talk 20:28, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Sigh. It's obvious that Cat hounded Hrafn off the project. I personally won't let this group do the same here. I'm not sure what to add to the conversation. From the beginning, it was clear that this group fails to understand Wikipedia--they want to use original research and their own synthesis to verify statements. Hrafn got frustrated. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:27, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

WERW

The "WERW Radio" and "WERW History" sections on the Syracuse University article are from the WERW page (currently up for deletion). I moved them there so the history of the station would remain intact. You might consider making a Media of Syracuse University page :) Take Care...NeutralHomer • Talk 21:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Semantic Question of da day...

For all horror buffs, greek scholars, folklore lovers...and does it qualify fer wikifur? Dunno, but anyway biggy today is..........(drumroll)...is the term 'werewolf' synonymous with 'lycanthrope'? Yes, you too can change history today before the morning coffee.. woof :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, they aren't quite synonymous. I can't quite put my finger on it, but one is like a pseudo-clinical term (although I remember something about it from my headshrinking clinical rotation, which might mean it's some real psychiatric issue, but I'm too lazy to turn on the light, pull down ICD-9 or 10 to prove it). Werewolf is more of a general term. I'm more into vampires than werewolves anyways. I am not a dog lover. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 08:00, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Aah, you mean Clinical lycanthropy, I was almost going to send this to AfD as I had never heard of it but it has appeared in a peer-reviewed journal. Never heard of this in ICD or DSM...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:58, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I've always seen it written interchangeably, depending on the particular author. It seems like lycanthrope is more often used by authors who like to present it as a virus (as opposed to entirely supernatural), but it seems pointless to have two separate articles because of such a small difference. In Underworld (the movies), they use "lycan" - should we have a third article? Avruch ^T 16:06, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

The Concise O.E.D. treats lycanthropy as a form of madness, "in which the patient imagines himself transformed into an animal with depraved appetites..." Not quite the same condition as being a werewolf, which they treat as mythology. Of course, Warren Zevon wasn't at Oxford, he was in London, so they might not have gotten the whole story. Ahh-Whooooooo!!! LeadSongDog (talk) 20:46, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

That is clinical lycanthropy, discussed above, which you're right is something totally apart from conventional literary lycanthropy or werewolves. Avruch ^T 20:59, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

On a trip to London a year or two I did manage to find Lee Ho Fook, walking through the streets of Soho. I almost regretted that it wasn't raining. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:57, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Boris, a fine Warren Zevon reference. You're one strange dude. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:21, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

That's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all day. (Actually there were two Lee Ho Fooks -- the big restaurant on Gerrard Street, and the small one around the corner with the red front and no English sign that always had a bunch of skinned fowl hanging in the windows. The latter was said to be the "real" Lee Ho Fook and seems to have closed down recently. I've seen other "Lee Ho Fook" restaurants in other places; perhaps it's Mandarin for something like Ye Olde House of Good Eats.) Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:49, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we shouldn't go. I think it's Mandarin for Ye Olde House of Terrible Eats. I'll have to get my Beef Chow Mein someplace else. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:32, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Somehow I'd always thought Lee Ho Fook was a spoonerism. Yah learn sumpin new ever day...LeadSongDog (talk) 20:33, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I actually went there about 10 years ago. The review is a bit harsh, the food's not bad (English Chinese food ranks far below American Chinese food, possibly because the English are not known for sensitive taste buds). The service was horrible, probably because every freaking Zevon fan who visits London has to go there. I once took a one week holiday to London, and I had my picture taken in front of every single location that was referenced in a movie or song that I knew. Hanover Street. A nightingale sang in Berkeley Square. Half Moon Street (of course, any movie with Sigourney Weaver requires attention, even this bad one). And of course, just to be romantic, Notting Hill. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:26, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Bad timing

Dateline: last Thursday. Brit Hume shares his fair and balanced^® opinion that the economy is doing great, and anyone concerned about its fundamental soundness is just a whiny Democrat scared of Sarah Palin. One can only hope he believed his own talking points sufficiently to hold onto his Lehman Brothers stock. MastCell ^Talk 17:26, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Fox News gives much credence to reality. (yes, I'm a lurking, stalking, ne'er do well.) --Regents Park (one for sorrow) 17:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah, it's the same evidence, they just have a different worldview. Possibly Uranus. . . dave souza, talk 18:48, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I think Nas said it best... MastCell ^Talk 19:07, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, medicine, vampires and now Nas?? Damn... Avruch ^T 19:11, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

BTW, capitalism as we knew it is dead. Odd that Bush was the one to approve its murder, but ...&#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 23:22, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Capitalism as we know it? You mean a system where profits are privatized while risk is socialized, and where everyone worships the Free Market with one hand while giving out corporate welfare and no-bid contracts with the other? A system where we have a well-oiled corporate safety net but no social safety net? I'd say it's alive and well. The pendulum's just swinging back: deregulation mania and laissez-faire led to ever-wilder excesses and profits, until the pyramid collapsed and the government stepped in with drastic compensatory countermeasures. It's the story of the 1920's, the Depression, and the New Deal. It's the story of the savings and loan crisis. Different decade, SOS. MastCell ^Talk 00:04, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

My friend, I was being somewhat sarcastic. Nonetheless, the bailout plan is quite the departure from anything we (as in the USians) have seen before, at least in scope. To me, and to many Europeans based on what I've read, this is looking very much like socialised capitalism. Of course, we don't know where it will lead, but my analysis leads me to believe that it'll be a while before laissez faire makes a comeback. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 00:21, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Only until the public stops thinking about how expensive it is. The political incentives for deregulation are only temporarily outweighed by the risk of public outrage. Deregulation, or lack of effective regulation in the first place at all. The interesting bit to me is that the ridiculously expensive rescue plan is far more sweeping and expensive that it might have been had it come a few months or more earlier. The laissez-faire tendencies of the Bush administration (such as they are) themselves contributed to the severity of the crisis. Of course, they'll fire Chris Cox (and perhaps Ben Bernanke), but ignore the fact that the complexity of the transactions and securities causing all the fear was pointed out as dangerous numerous times - even by the the man himself. As for Europe - most of Europe has been convinced for awhile that the United States is interested in truly free markets only when the risks are borne by others. Avruch ^T 00:40, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, you're more or less correct. The political incentives are also driven by the very real possibility of a depression. Bernanke is safe for now -- probably.

Your (to me) biggest point, that the "ridiculously expensive rescue plan is far more sweeping and expensive that it might have been had it come a few months or more earlier" is dead-on accurate. Of course, as all this was predicted in 2003 by an amateur you'd think it would have been bloody obvious to the pros. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 03:40, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I can't see how the rescue plan would have been cheaper if it had come a few months earlier. Housing prices peaked in 2006 and have been declining ever since. It seems to me that an earlier rescue plan would have meant more pain for the taxpayers, less for the people who made these investments. Someone is going to have to take the losses. I gather US government has decided that it the private financial system has taken all that it can handle, and it's going to absorb the rest. Hopefully we will be purchasing these mortgage-backed securities at the prevailing market price, which gives us a chance of breaking even or even profiting from them. The market is so illiquid and the flight to safety so frantic that there is a decent chance that these securities are being underpriced. The hedge fund famous for shorting housing, Paulson & Co., noted that these securities are possibly an opportunity of a lifetime.[11] On the other hand, the $700 billion we spend on these MBS could just be gone. In either case, I hope the financial system pays the taxpayers dividends in the future. II | (t - c) 02:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

You're being optimistic. :) Anyway, it's not just the bailout I'm talking about, it's overall government action. And the crap the Bushites are spewing that no one could have foreseen this mess is demonstrably false: it was predicted by a number of people, most of whom were "amateurs" labelled as Cassandra's, as well as by a few evil liberal economists. The bottom line is that no one wanted to see what was happening, much like in the late 1920's. The irrational exuberance that swept the country very much meant that a belief that the good times would never end proved to be stultifying for so many. In some ways, this response was due to the emotional depression that gripped the US in the aftermath of 9/11, thus, it was in some ways, a "see, we're back on top" response. Nonetheless, the primary cause was greed. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 16:57, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

alzheimer

maybe issues are confusing for you between senile dementia and alzheimer's, which isn't, as Alzheimer & Kraepelin defined it. --Jaykb (talk) 00:53, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

What the fuck blazes are you talking about? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:54, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not British. About the only time I use "blazes" in a sentence is when I look out of my bed room window and say, "oh my, there are three blazes on the mountains this evening."OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:20, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

You're first was more accurate.  ;) What is he talking about? &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 17:07, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I know, I was being cheeky :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:37, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Aussies can be cheeky? Is that before or after a Foster's?OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:44, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Ugh! Putrid stuff; that's why we sent it all to the US and to London. Victoria Bitter and Carlton Draught were the better of the mass produced beers by the same company, though there are much nicer ones now...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:16, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

It's happening again

... the Mets are collapsing. I can start the day, every day, with a smile on my face when I read that the Mets have lost again. The smile grows broader when I read the sports page of the New York Times and see David Wright and Jay Manuel talk about how they're not concerned, they're still in good shape, and this choke bears absolutely no resemblance to what happened last year. Nice of the Marlins to do their part by rolling over and playing dead for the Phils. Funny, when you engage a Mets fan on the subject these days, they change subjects to the Giants and Super Bowl XLII pretty quick. MastCell ^Talk 16:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I smoked a cigar this weekend in celebration of the Mets' collapse. I'm happy. However, don't mention the Twins to Keeper76. He might be cranky and block me just on principle. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:26, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

All's not lost. We split a series at Tampa (how many teams have done that? They have the best homefield record in the majors...), and we head back home for 6 more games. Six home games. The Pales are hit and miss at the dome. One visit, they'll win 2 of 3, the next week, they'll get swept (like this year, we're they lost 3 in a row by 5 runs or more). I'm hoping the good Twins show and the BadPales as well. We could actually come out of the 3 games series with the division lead. So, how are the marlins doing? So wrong of them to have a 10 game winning streak so late in the season. How cruel to their 6 fans to build false hope like that...Keeper ǀ 76 16:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Optimism. The nice way to say "denialism."  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:33, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

"Last warning". The nice way to say "I'm gonna Indef your ass"....fan is short for fanatic. Why be reasonable? Keeper ǀ 76 16:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I thought the Marlins might contend this year, but they faded big-time when it counted. MastCell ^Talk 16:48, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

That's just rumor. Nobody actually witnessed them fading. As far as anyone knows, they're still contending. Keeper ǀ 76 16:50, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, 08 was their year. Every 5 years they rebuild a team that wins a World Series in front of 247 fans. Did you note that threat from the involved admin Keeper76? Im going to have to take it to ANI. We haven't had any drama on Wikipedia for at least 3 days. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:52, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, come now. There weren't 247 people there and you know it. Hyperbole much? Keeper ǀ 76 17:01, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I bought tickets for 246 homeless dudes. Get your facts right. What kind of admin doesn't know how to look up facts. Wikipedia only speaks the truth. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I just love the irony of your Wiki-existence. You are a gunslinger for accuracy, references, accuracy, and references. Except for your baseball team, which really is only rumored to exist as it has never been confirmed by an eye-witness to have played a home game. They are the Washington Generals of baseball, rented by real teams for exhibition and W-L record fluffing... Keeper ǀ 76 17:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Might I once again remind you. Two World Series titles in the last 11 years. . And what have the Chicago Cubs and Minnesota Twins done in the meantime. Case closed. You may bow at my feet now. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Bow at your feet? I thought you didn't like religious zealotry. Oh, I see, if you get to be the god, then it's ok. Sheesh. Keeper ǀ 76 18:54, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Dude. It took you this long to figure it out???? It's not like I"m hiding out somewhere. Sheesh. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

← Sports teams have a greater meaning that cannot be encapsulated in a simple won-loss record or World Series ring or two. They are cultural signifiers; what existence they have, in an abstract sense, is imbued by the meaning that fans invest in them. If you see someone wearing a Cubs or Phillies hat, you might think: "Poor bastard." A Yankees hat? "Insufferable name-dropper who hopes that others' success will reflect undeservedly on him." Red Sox? "That hat cannot be more than 3 or 4 years old." And if you see someone wearing Marlins gear? Who would know? I've never seen anyone wearing Marlins gear, and I've spent some time in Florida. The team is an existential void. MastCell ^Talk 21:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

L. O. L. Perfect encapsulation of several teams. Keeper ǀ 76 21:06, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

MastCell, I'm offended by your evil, despicable, low characterisation of Phillies fans. So there. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera!

BTW, Keeper, I watched the Phils-Marlins game yesterday and there were only five fans. Harrumph. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 21:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

...of which 4 were probably Phil-fans....just sayin. Keeper ǀ 76 21:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Ummm. I own two Marlins hats, both of which brag about World Series wins, a Marlins leather jacket, and possible a Marlins key chain or two. Once again, there were approximately 47 fans in the stands at the end of the 9th inning. Which is 46 more than at Dodger Stadium at the end of the 9th inning. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:00, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you really comparing your fans to LA fans? You may as well brag about being a better driver than Lindsay Lohan. Set the bar lower, why don't you? MastCell ^Talk 23:12, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm better looking than John Kruk too. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:19, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

That's a WP:BLP violation. Consider this your only warning. :) MastCell ^Talk 19:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I think the most disturbing thing is the Marlins leather jacket. Who (besides rabid snowmobilers in Northern minnesota) buys a leather team jacket??? Who are you? Keeper ǀ 76 19:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree -- leather is too cool to besmirch with a team's logo. OK, I'm not a member of PETA. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 19:40, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

In other news: the Mets lost yesterday when the opposing pitcher hit a grand slam. Clearly destiny is at work, or perhaps bad karma left over from the '86 Mets. The Phils and Brewers won - 10 of the last 11 for the Phillies. Cue David Wright claiming that no one in the Mets clubhouse is thinking about last year's collapse. MastCell ^Talk 20:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I am not going to let the playoffs pass by in a blur this year. Translation: I'm forced to unwatch Alzheimer's after a miserable day of trying to just keep up with my watchlist and talk page. Ping me if I'm needed, pls? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:16, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I can only asume that means needed for consensus. But is that the way things are supposed to be? It was the obvious pile-on that got me over-riled. Good to see the intgrity of admin running strong on this strange page, btw! Thanks a bundle, Keeper - we all have bad days. --Matt Lewis (talk) 23:23, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to give you some advice. First, consensus is not a minority of two thinking they can force content into an article. Read WP:CONSENSUS. Second, you weren't invited here to give your opinion on this page. Unwatch it. Don't read. But don't comment on it, if it's going to be rude. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 06:04, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Alas, the Yankees are eliminated from playoff contention & I'm the only one here, to weep. GoodDay (talk) 15:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

George shouldn'ta oughta fired Joe. Although I'll incur the wrath of fellow Phillies fans, I like the Yankees, hate the Mets though. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 16:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Joe Girardi is now managing the Yanks. So, he kinda hired a Joe. And I don't think George is in control of his faculties, and definitely not in control of the team. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:38, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Callin' it now: Joe Girardi needs to make sure his resume is up-to-date. Keeper ǀ 76 20:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Probably right ... I wonder if Torre will send George a greeting card when the Dodgers clinch a playoff spot. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 18:09, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

The Amazing Sound of Mets' Choking

←Who else hears the sound of the Met's gakking once again? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 06:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

It's all up to the Marlins to close the deal - the Mets have their last 3 at home against FLA. Can they do it? MastCell ^Talk 16:59, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, they'll be 40,000 fans there to cheer on the Mets. Seriously, more New Yorkers in Florida than anything! If the Mets aren't up 12-0 in the 7th inning, they have no shot. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:01, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

My favorite metstat of the year: They've lost 8 games this year, 6 at home, when they had at least a 4 run lead in the game. Most for any team since 1894. Go marlins, I love a good flameout crash and burn. I'm enjoying the Palehose's as well. :-) Keeper ǀ 76 17:11, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

The Met's require a group tracheotomy. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:09, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Another of my fave images from yesterday: David Wright, whilst trotting onto the field, tripping and falling flat on his face, with Jose Reyes laughing his ass off. So symbolic. Keeper ǀ 76 18:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Someone hates my talk page

This edit cracked me up. And besides, I delete any references to American football. I guess talking about baseball, werewolves, bad chinese food, vampires, Anna Paquin's teeth, etc. etc. are intellectually forbidden on Wikipedia. Of course, the editor who wrote said comment fails to understand WP:NPOV, but I'll discuss it there. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:08, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Dammit, and I was just considering vandalising your page to add "Baseball sucks!" Aunt Entropy (talk) 17:11, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Heh. I think I gave that guy rollback. If you want to learn about football, come to my page, where I frequently try to predict what new and inventive way the Vikings will find to lose a game. I lost yesterday, couldn't get Carolina to come back in the 4th quarter....Keeper ǀ 76 17:13, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Let's talk about Australian football.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

A, a real man's sport :-) Shot info (talk) 21:55, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

G'day Bruce! LeadSongDog (talk) 21:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

In fact, That Day in September is this weekend. Hawthorn Football Club versus the Geelong Football Club. Pundits have the money on Geelong at the moment. But Hawthorn have several freaks-of-nature playing for them. Either way, it's a BBQ and many....many beers to be had :-) Shot info (talk) 00:59, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Reminder

I'm (spring) cleaning closets drawers and other misc crap that has built up around the house. I don't have time to look now, but remind me later if needed that I have Sports Illustrated April 7 and April 14, 2003, SU NCAA basketball champion issues, in case you need them for citing anything. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:58, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

You have these issues why? I lost mine in a move, and I had to buy them off of eBay. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:58, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I have them because I'm a college basketball fan. Not. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:58, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

FYI

[12] I thought you might be interested. I know I'm not very active at all on the talk page or the article but I have partcipated on the talk though that is not what this log says. I thought you might want to take a peek too since I know you too have used the talk page and the article in the past. I hope I am not intruding. --CrohnieGal^Talk 14:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

WERW (Part 2)

Just thought you would like to know, the request for deletion on Syracuse University station WERW's page was withdrawn. If you want to link to it on the Syracuse University page, you can :) Take Care...NeutralHomer • Talk 18:42, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I have done some updating (mostly linkage and adding an infobox) to the WERW page. I would welcome some edits from you, as I only know the radio part, not the history. Thanks...NeutralHomer • Talk 03:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm going have to break some bad news to you. When I was at SU, WERW didn't exist. So, any history I'd have to find from reliable sources!!! LOL. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 06:25, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

When you were at SU, electricity didn't exist. Zing. Are you gonna tell me what the hell's bothering you, or have you let it go already? Hit me. Keeper ǀ 76 17:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Electricity? What's that? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:07, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Funniest diff of the past 60 days

And it didn't happen on this page (although as a result of one of my requests). Even Keeper76 might wet his pants, especially since the Twins are up 3-2 in the 7th inning. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:25, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

That's golden. Boehiem's a genius, Biden's gotta go :-) I heart SG! Keeper ǀ 76 17:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

To Keeper76

Your talk page is officially off my watch list. If you need to engage with me about anything, including baseball, glaciers, vampires, hot VP candidates, the quality of food in Minneapolis, annoying Yankees fans, beer, etc., I'll be here. Oh, and if there's an occasional real edit...also here. LOL. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:58, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

That's probably better for both of us :-) What prompted the shafting? Keeper ǀ 76 19:59, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

An immoral, unethical editor showed up on your page. There are no rules that I have to participate in any discussion that they do. I just wanted you to be aware that I might not reply when you toss in a mean, over-the-top, disgusting, angry, passive-aggressive and harsh Marlins comment. That's all.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:01, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Bummer. When you change your mind (and realizing that all good addictions have relapses), my talkpage will be open if you need admin assistance, or to console me when the Twins lose in the first round of the postseason. I know who you're talking about, and I think you are overreacting, but meh, tis your right. Keeper ǀ 76 20:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

One has to have standards. And your page is like a fine scotch...goes down smooth, makes you feel warm all over, but has its price. And since this is an edit conflict, I'll run right over.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you serious??????OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

First, yes, I'm serious. Wait, about what? The now deleted thread I linked? Yes, that was serious. And second, I knew you couldn't stay off ANK very long...Keeper ǀ 76 21:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

If I had time (and if I gave up Wikipedia, I would have time), I'd just blog baseball 24/7. If there's a Wiki-baseball, I'd go, but my guess is that discussing the merits of the designated hitter would make the whole Intelligent design discussion seem like brotherly love. Yes, and why would you do the thing. Deleted thing. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't have a choice. I can't explain further than that, not yet. Keeper ǀ 76 21:40, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, I just about had you trained into a "Tool of the ID Cabal". Now I have to start over again. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:54, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

LOL! I'm nobody's tool. Well, maybe my wife's. But other than that, nobody! Okay, well maybe my son's.....but other than that, nobody's!!!! I'm not doing the vanish thing, I'll check in once and a while. But real life changes means I will have virtually no wiki-contact for an unforseeable duration. I wish myself that it weren't true, I fucking love this place (call me a masochist, but it's true...) Keeper ǀ 76 21:59, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

You were called up? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:26, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

That's right babe. Going to the majors. $$$$$$. Keeper ǀ 76 01:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I knew it. The Twins need some additional bats behind Morneau, and they decided you were ready. So, what are you going to do with all that extra cash?OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:22, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll probably start a reliable, online encyclopedia, free from anonymous editing. Oh, wait. Keeper ǀ 76 01:53, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

A gift for you!

Enjoy. You will recognize some old friends. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

"Clinical trials testing the efficacy of all these forms of homeopathic medicines have often reported positive results." So this is the kind of writing we can expect from that crowd? I was going to submit myself to their vetting process to edit there. Not after reading that load of horse manure. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I hoped CZ would succeed but prospects don't look good at all unless Sanger does something to keep articles from being hijacked. Their global warming article also had a load of absolute junk added to it until I raised concerns. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 21:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

It might be worth dropping Larry (or one of the constables) a note about Dana Ullman's history here. Guettarda (talk) 21:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

He probably knows already. And I'm sympathetic to the argument that someone's problems here shouldn't follow them all across the internet. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 00:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I remember when you were mean and cranky. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:23, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't care all that much. I just read two or three articles that I would consider an indicator of the quality of CZ, and they rank far below Wikipedia's. We may have new age hippies running about here thinking that New thought heals people, but they have a culture of "different makes us better." No, better makes you better. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:47, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

The CZ Evolution article is appalling. "Among many reasons, the concept of evolution is attractive to scientists!!!!" Huh? The CZ evolution article is not even 10% the quality of the WP article. You know, I never looked at their articles until now. It isn't even close. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:51, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the link! ROFL at "In biology, the concept of evolution applies to a multi-causal natural process whereby populations of inbreeding living organisms change in their biological characteristics over generations." Looks like they've got inbreeding editors over there, real hillbilly stuff... dave souza, talk 22:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I read a couple of those. Are you sure those aren't Conservapedia? Keeper ǀ 76 01:11, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

It is interesting to observe that Citizendium is, to some extent, a refuge for poor-quality Wikipedia POV forks. User:Pierre-Alain Gouanvic left Wikipedia after being unable to bend our article on Vitamin C megadosage to reflect his Paulingite views, and he's now essentially transferred his evangelical POV fork to Citizendium. Interestingly, he's also been a major contributor to the homeopathy article. I recognize more than a few other names in that homeopathy article history, most of whom retain negative associations. I think this is remarkable, actually: Wikipedia's system appears demonstrably superior when it comes to producing neutral, balanced, accurate scientific pieces. Citizendium's reliance on "experts" is undone by their (non-)definition of the word "expert" - it's more like a repository of POV forks that violated our neutrality and accuracy policies than an expertly written and edited encyclopedia. MastCell ^Talk 21:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

This is an outstanding observation. What I see is that Citizendium appoints its scholar-expert-editors based on a system that favors one POV, rather than a broad-base of thinking. Because Wikipedia works in a, sometimes difficult, environment of discussion and consensus, many voices rise to the top. It's only articles like Orgone, which isn't watched by enough editors, where a strong POV appears. Wikipedia's Homeopathy, though not perfect, is well-written and mostly balanced. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think they deliberately choose one POV or another. It's more that they're desperately short of contributors so they're glad for whomever they can get. (Hey, they even appointed me as one of their editors.) Since they haven't reached critical mass a few people with idiosyncratic worldviews can have disproportionate influence. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 00:23, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

(addendum) Very interesting exchange here on Sanger's view of neutrality. It seems that fringe views inevitably will be given excessive weight at CZ. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:53, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

(ri)Sanger needs to lay off OM's whiskey. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 19:01, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

My 20,000th edit

So, I'm accepting nominations for my 20,000th edit. It could be vandalizing Keeper's page, but that's so yesterday. I could vandalize my own page. But I'm looking for something special, something that makes the world a better place, something that cause everyone to break out in song. Or vomit. Either way works for me. The floor is open for nominations. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Clay Aiken could use some BLP violations. Or, for even more Huggle vandalism warnings, edit Wales, or Paris Hilton. Just add whatever "the spirit moves you to add". Your first 19,999 edits have been dreadfully boring. Have some fun! I won't block you, promise :-) Keeper ǀ 76 01:10, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Ya could vandalize my page....no one ever does. Or leave me a completely off-the-wall post like this one. - NeutralHomer • Talk 01:13, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

A rewrite of ID saying that it represents the Only Truth, thus destroying the dreaded cab meme in the process. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 13:00, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Take your pick: (1) Open a WP:RFC/U on Jimbo. (2) Nominate WP:RFAR for MfD. (3) Redirect Sarah Palin to Schizoaffective disorder. Just trying to be helpful. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 13:40, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Why not start an article on Paul Thurrott's exposé of the iCabal,[13] an evil shadowy group of Apple and Mac users using intrigue to assert an insidious influence over the rest of the world? . . dave souza, talk 15:35, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I see you're a fan of Roughly Drafted magazine. But if it gets rapid deleted, which it will, because of the PC-cabal running Wikipedia...ooops....then there will be no record of the edit, and my 20,000th edit will be vandalizing Keeper's user talk. So, I'm going to have to add a BLP violation to Sara Palin. It is my duty. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

<- Drink a fair amount of your favorite adult beverage and let your subconscious move you. spryde | talk 16:08, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

You type that under the assumption that his first 19,999 edits haven't been accomplished this way....Keeper ǀ 76 16:13, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

True, but anyone who deals with the topics he chooses to deal with needs a bit of liquid xanex every now and then. spryde | talk 16:31, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Keeper, I told you that in confidence. Now you tell the world. I'm hurt. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I didn't tell the world. Your talkpage has about as many fans as a marl... --- oops! I promised I wouldn't do that anymore :-) Keeper ǀ 76 17:10, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

You're leaving when? Please don't let the door hit your ass.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:27, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe I want the door to hit me.......Keeper ǀ 76 17:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I just know that I'll forget, and my 20,000th edit will be a response to one of your inane comments. Just my luck. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:40, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

But will it be an inane response? An inebebriaticated one? &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 18:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

"Inebebriaticated" has a wonderful internal consistency, like when one of my college roommates used to say "mispronounciation." Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:33, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Your old roomie might have been related to an old boss who said (frequently), two peas in a pot, and model role instead of role model. Or the bright analyst on CNN who just this morning said that the bailout was a "fate accomplete". &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 19:02, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

That's too much. Of course, I always say roll model, I never say role model, but no one ever seems to catch it. Keeper ǀ 76 19:15, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

ROFL. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149;^dissera! 19:41, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Shirley it is mute wither it is roll model or role model. KillerChihuahua^?!? 22:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Don't call me Shirley, ha! Oh, I loved that movie, what was it called? Oh yeah, Heir Plain. Keeper ǀ 76 14:01, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I could use 9,000 dancing penises on my talk page. If you get blocked, you can be rest assured that I'll just point and laugh. seicer | talk | contribs 00:50, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

←After much deliberation (I actually didn't edit for a number of hours pondering what to do), and previewing a very funny vandalism of Keeper's page, and taking into consideration some of the suggestions above (the Sarah Palin redirect would have been loads of fun, but only those of us here would have understood the humor), I woke up this morning, and just edited like I always do. I hereby present my 20,000th edit. Just cleaned up some stuff on what I think is the best thing I've done here at Wikipedia. It was at the top of my watchlist, and I saw what an editor had done, and it was clear that there was a minor error in spelling in the article. Boring. But what I do. I still may vandalize Keeper's page just for fun. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

congrats! And personally, I'm glad it wasn't my talkpage. That could come back to bite you down the road :-) .....Keeper ǀ 76 19:07, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I would have immediately reverted the vandalism, but left the link for all to ponder. It's only something I would do amongst friends. BTW, all that I've done around here, do you think vandalizing your page would be the biggest bite I'd get? Methinks you think too much of your page--anyone who would see the vandalism would think, "hmmm, Keeper's page again. yawn."OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:11, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Heh! You misread. I merely meant that "overcontributing" to my talkpage could easily (and probably rightfully) land you in a crowd that said "OM is a myspacer". You are one of the good guys OM. You mean well (you don't always say what you mean well, but you mean well), and you are intelligent, competent, and sincere. You have passion for this website (some would say that's a detraction, but I say it's a plus), and you do whatever it takes to make this crazy little "free encyclopedia" stay accurate, precise, sourced, and reliable. And to top it off, you like baseball. The wrong team yes, but at least you like the right sport. My first encounter with you was quite negative. I told you off, then you told me off, and I had a strongly negative view of you and your motives. I was completely wrong. You, and several others, have proved to me that you are here for the right reasons, and for the good of the public/free information that Wikipedia is supposed to be providing. Good on you, OM. Don't quit, and don't compromise on your convictions. Keeper ǀ 76 19:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC)