User talk:Eldumpo

Travancore

Hello, you deleted several paragraphs from Travancore due to long-standing 'citation needed' notices. Please note that references on Indian history are rather difficult to find, particularly on the net. Moreover, nobody has given any proof against the deleted statements. Finally, these statements are commonly accepted to be true. Thank You. Jose Mathew C (talk) 18:34, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

The problem is that if something is deleted, it is never going to be cited. Why not retain with 'citation needed' notices, or start a discussion on the article talk page? Some of the cn tags are unnecessary - there is one at the 'Geography' section, which is clear from the map. Thanks. Jose Mathew C (talk) 06:13, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

List of Fulham F.C. players

Hi mate, Thanks for your message. In answer to your points:

• The Football League Trophy stats are included so I have added this to the list of competitions.
• Aren't the Watney and Anglo-Scottish Cups pre-season friendly tournaments - if so, should I just make a note that they are not included in the stats?)
• I plan to remove the nationalities from the notes column - I was keeping them there so I could remember the nationalities of players without articles, with the intention of filling in the redlinks.

• Thanks for the info about Gibbon and and Price, which I will add to the article.

Do you know a source that I could use to cite international players? 03md 18:58, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Anglo-Italian Cup

Hello. To be honest, I genuinely don't see the point of removing the information. It explains a pretty basic part of the A-I Cup's history, i.e the background to why it was set up in the first place, in 3 sentences. And for the sake of 3 sentences in an article that hasn't got enough prose anyway, we shouldn't really be sending the reader off to another article: they might never come back :-) Though I agree it's a bit woffly. How about:

From 1967, a place in the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup was awarded to the Football League Cup winners, but that season's winners, Queens Park Rangers, could not take up their place because UEFA did not at that time allow third-tier teams to compete in the Fairs Cup. When the same situation arose two years later with Swindon Town, a two-legged match against that year's Coppa Italia winners, A.S. Roma, was organised by way of compensation. Following the popularity of that event, dubbed the Anglo-Italian League Cup, ...

cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:08, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

re: Mexican club franchise changes

Hello Eldumpo. I have edited Mexican football pages in the past, but my comprehension of Spanish is weak and I don't feel very comfortable that I understand the movement of clubs. That said, the FMF website provides some good summaries which might answer your questions. According to this page, the current "Atlante UTN" franchise is the former "Potros de Hierro del Atlante" who were based in Chetumal before 2009. It's clear that this is not the Potros Neza club of the past, but the page only says it played in Nezahualcoyotl in 2002-2004 before moving to Chetumal. (Who knows where it started or from what franchise?) If you have a look around the www.femexfut.org.mx website, you can see profiles for all of the Liga de Ascenso clubs with history pages like the one above. I hope this helps. Jogurney (talk) 12:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi again. Sorry, but I don't understand why the fb templates are used in that table. I normally just copy tables from other articles, and don't have a lot of understanding of how they work. Maybe try asking on the FOOTY talk page? Best regards. Jogurney (talk) 14:01, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

French-language stats book

Hi! You're probably referring to this book : (Barreaud, Marc (1998). Dictionnaire des footballeurs étrangers du championnat professionnel français (1932-1997). L'Harmattan, Paris. ISBN 2-7384-6608-7.). Indeed, it's a statistics book for ligue 1 and ligue 2, but it only covers foreign players (i.e. players born outside France). It is a reliable source (very few mistakes). I bought it at amazon.fr, where it is still available. I don't know if it is available in UK. The other one is Il était une fois le championnat de France de football – Tous les joueurs de la première division de 1948-49 à 2006-07 (Stéphane Boisson et Raoul Vian, 2004), which is very complete and list all players (a kind of French Joyce's book). Unfortunately I don't have it and it is getting quite rare. However you can find it here, 39 €, so quite expensive. This seller has lots of other books. Cheers.--Latouffedisco (talk) 10:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Liga Leumit

As I noted in both edit summaries, the source you refer to is outdated, because it refers to the period when there were three national leagues (with 12 clubs each) and the top two were professional (although having attended several games in Liga Leumit, at which the attendance was less than 100, I fail to see how this was financed). However, since then the leagues were restructed - the top two divisions were expanded by four clubs each and the third division (Liga Artzit) scrapped. Therefore at least half the teams now in the second division were previously in the definitely non-professional third division. I hope this clarifies the situation. Number 57 19:58, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I do not have any written evidence that Liga Leumit is not professional, but likewise there is no evidence to say that it is (the old source is not valid as the leagues have been majorly restructured since). Without a reliable and contemporary source, we cannot add it to the list of fully-professional leagues.

To respond to your other query, no I do not believe Liga Leumit was professional at any point - I cannot see how it was funded based on only one or two clubs with attendances over the 1,000 mark. Number 57 20:17, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

This is not direct evidence, but I think it's pretty unlikely that it can be a fully pro league with more than half the cluba having attendances of less than 400. This season's statistics are even more damning. Number 57 20:28, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

"The key point is the extent to which the change that happened for 2009/10 is significant enough to change the basis of the original source, and I would say the change is not necessarily significant enough to warrant it". I really fail to see how you come to this conclusion. As I have pointed out several times, at least half of the clubs now in Liga Leumit were in a non-profressional division prior to the restructing. Do you really believe that 8+ clubs with gates of under 500 suddenly turned professional??? I am happy for Liga Leumit to be added to the professional (until 2009), but there should be no disputed tag - they should only be used if there is contradictory information on both sides. At present we have no information on either side. Number 57 18:30, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Manny Panther

Indeed I did, but Soccerbase and the official website fail to mention his appearance against Barnet on 18 August 2009, which is confirmed by the Morecambe website. Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 14:52, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

It seems pretty unlikely that O'Carroll played, considering he was released at the end of the previous season. Perhaps, for some reason, O'Carroll was incorrectly written on the line-up as Panther was wearing the number 14 shirt, which O'Carroll had worn the previous season? Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 20:03, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Club season guidelines/MOS

Hey,

I thought best to inform you about this here since you were the only one to ask. The last time I checked, there were several suggestions thrown in for consideration. I have just recently decided to synthesize those suggestion into a proposed MOS/guidelines that should be up for discussion in the coming days. Digirami (talk) 22:48, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

NSPORT

I support your effort to clarify WP:NSPORT as I can see in AfDs that everyone interprets the guidelines differently based on text that IMO is not clear. Based on comments I have seen, my guess is that there is a lot of history that needs to be respected in order to sway consensus. See Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(sports)/Archive_4#RfC:_Promote_Notability_.28sports.29_to_a_guideline for a sampling of the range of opinions to get this promoted to a guideline. I'd like to lend more support, but unfortunately I will be mostly offline for the next two months. Best of luck. —Bagumba (talk) 17:10, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Leicester Past Players Page

We shouldn't be using that website as a reference if it is incomplete. The best place for complete player stats for Leicester players is the reference book (and club bible) Of Fossils and Foxes which has the complete playing history of every single player ever to play for the club and the line-up, substitutes and scorers for every single competitive game the club has ever played (this is where I also got all of the player stats from the players I added to the table, sorry I should have sourced it). Reference books such as OFAF are generally considered a much better source than websites for wikipedia, because reference books are always properly researched and double and triple checked by editors and publishers and have their own reference sections (OFAF has also been sold in the club shop also as it is sanctioned by the club and has gone through the club's official records for history etc), whereas websites can be published by anyone without any proof reading or research and generally don't reference their own research sources.

Generally, in club history pages, complete competitive playing records are used, because Leicester have not just playing in the league throughout their history as it implies that league matches are all that is important, whereas other competitive competitions are important as well. Players such as Steve Claridge or Ken Leek for example are notable and important players in the club's history for their performances in competitive matches which weren't in the league.

Also, the "Explanation" section you have done at the top of the page I think are just table footnotes which belong more in a "Notes" section at the bottom of the page, not an "Explanation" section at the top of the page, see: Template:Note label for more details.

I can also add every player who has played over 100 times for the club using OFAF, but I really think we should just have a column for all competition apps and goals and not one for league apps and goals. --MIR17 (talk) 00:35, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

---

Yeah, OFAF divides appearances and goals into competitions and then lists wartime apps and goals separately. It just seems strange having league stats but not the stats for the other competitions to see how the totals add up. However, I think what we could do is list the League, FA cup, League Cup and Others apps/goals in separate columns and then have a "Total" at the end as I have done with the top goalscorers and most appearences tables on the List of Leicester City F.C. records and statistics page. --MIR17 (talk) 12:33, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

---

Just tried the outline to it to check and it looks fine for space to me. Tell me what you think. --MIR17 (talk) 14:42, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

---

OK, thanks. I'll try and finish it then see about the international thing. Nationality for a non-international player is where he was born. --MIR17 (talk) 01:14, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Caesar Jenkyns

Hello. When you've got a minute, please could you add the relevant page number for the Michael Joyce book ref.thanks, Struway2 (talk) 10:15, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Re the page number, you and I know it's alphabetically arranged, but we're catering for the reader, and there's no real point leaving it out. Re the MUFCinfo ref, it verifies his playing for those clubs, but not his playing in the Football League for those clubs, nor his being a Welsh international. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:59, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

No probs, I imagine the mufc ref was only added to explicitly verify the date of death, though I'd guess the book refs probably do as well. Sorry if I was a bit sharp about the page number, didn't intend to sound as if I was telling you what to do. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:14, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Arthur Brown (footballer born 1885)

Hi there. I'm in a rush, so forgive my short answers please! Infobox - just personal preference really, I find it much easier to navigate. Death date - actually added by yourself, with a reference. Question marks - I presume(d) it was an error. Thanks and regards, GiantSnowman 17:16, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Because having precise dates of clubs and also question marks doesn't quite make sense, does it? GiantSnowman 19:08, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I've managed to find a source for the full date of death, knew I'd seen it somewhere! GiantSnowman 19:27, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Football Conference

Thanks a million!

I’ve done so much of this work lately that it was inevitable that I would make a mistake somewhere, I guess. I hope Oll is Korrekt now, and I hope you like the way I’ve done things. Apanuggpak (talk) 21:38, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Brian Taylor

Hello. Imagine so, will confirm when I've got the book in front of me. When you say historical BCFC stats, do you mean season-by-season, or just totals? AFAIK, there's nothing season-by-season online. Wish there was, and then I could screenscrape it into season articles. For totals separated into League and other, List of Birmingham City F.C. players and List of Birmingham City F.C. players with fewer than 50 appearances are sourced, though they don't include page numbers. As to Walsall, you could ask somebody with one of the Hugman player records books, preferably the 2005 one. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:12, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Moved BCFC ref inline, expanded a tiny bit, and moved your note about the stats to a footnote. Glad you brought the subject up, because the page number for the Matthews book was wrong, I'd obviously c&p'd the citation from elsewhere and forgot to change the page. Oops..... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 20:07, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Re winger, fair enough, by the 1950s the outside position was becoming less of a forward and more of a modern winger, so winger (sports) probably is more appropriate, please feel free to put that instead. Re Matthews, he has individual articles on each player which give total appearances/goals, and a page for each season with a result grid and player appearances/goals by competition for League, FA Cup, League Cup (and promotion test matches for the early years). Appearances/goals in the Fairs Cup and the minor comps (Football League Trophy, Anglo-Italian etc) are in separate sections. Do you have a particular reason for asking? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:42, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

No probs. There was a website some years ago, still available via archive.org, with a list of print sources and acknowledgments to statisticians I've heard of, which appeared pretty reliable, but very suddenly and with no explanation it stopped being updated. It never went as far as player appearance stuff, though. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:01, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that, but I'll take it out again. As I used it as a reference in that list, it's already in the general references section, so probably shouldn't be an external link as well. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:46, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Brian Taylor (footballer born 1937)

Hugman (p. 600) reads 77 appearances and 17 goals. Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 22:22, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Tommy Jones (footballer born 1909)

Hi - thanks for the message. The Who's Who says that in 1946 "he retired from playing and worked as a trainer/coach at various clubs until 1968". It lists his coaching career thus:

• August 1946 - Tranmere Rovers (trainer/coach)
• 1953 - Workington (trainer/coach)
• August 1958 - Birmingham City (Asst. trainer)
• 1966-1968 - West Bromwich Albion (Asst. trainer)

I hope that helps.

If the Tranmere official site has Tommy Jones as manager in 1946, this must be the same guy; I guess he was only a temporary/stopgap appointment. Soccerbase [1] has a gap between Bill Ridding finishing in May 1945 and Ernest Blackburn starting in September 1946.

To archive your talk page, you need to create a page at User_talk:Eldumpo/Archive1 and then cut & paste any old threads into it. If the Archive gets too large, then you repeat the process with Archive 2 and so on. Cheers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 17:57, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi again - the book definitely says "Asst. trainer" at WBA.

I've taking the liberty of adding a "filing cabinet" at the top of this page. As you create more archives, you can add extra "drawers". I guess it could be automated, but I'd rather decide for myself when and what to archive. Cheers. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 19:34, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

US Open Cup again

Yes, there are increasingly more digitized newspaper sources online. I tend to focus on non-internet sources however since once it goes online I no longer need to pursue it. Either way, plenty of variations can be found but they key is not just when but also where and why. For the 1949 article you mentioned I had simply neglected to change the title back. The truth is, I am not as concerned with the naming as it is with claims that are invalid or extremely difficult to verify. I had advised the editor about making certain broad claims like 'oldest soccer competition in the United States'. I said that it had to be more precise than that to be valid as well as easier to verify. I also removed the statement "This was the first year the tournament was branded as the 'U.S. Open Cup' rather than the 'National Challenge Cup', which had been used since 1914". This is an assumption based on the US archives site. From in depth research there is nothing that can verify that claim. Another interesting note on sources though is that I have come across numerous articles that use two or even three variations within the same article. One even said(not verbatim), "The NCC, emblematic of the United States open soccer championship". Essentially, a good way to describe the NCC is by saying USOC. So, in a way USOC is more of a description than a name. I prefer for an opening statement for the individual articles something like what I have for 1948. The 19xx NCC is the nth edition of the USFA/USSFA/USSF's open soccer championship. Which basically says that it is a soocer tournament of a particular vintage furnished by the national association where any team is eligible to win the title. This would be much easier to verify. Items describing the tournaments age or type of prestige would be better suited to the main article. As for the changes I made for 1948,49,50, I left the source citation in the comment line. Libro0 (talk) 23:24, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Quique Estebaranz

Hi there DUMPO, VASCO here,

Exactly as you say mate, no stats in www.bdfutbol.com for SEGUNDA B for quite some time, but they are starting now with that division, already we have stuff for 2006-10. SEGUNDA DIVISION, when i started checking that website, only had seasons from 1988 onwards if i am not mistaken, now it goes back to 1980, cool :)

The other reliable official source i can think of is www.lfp.es, but, as its name implies (LIGA DE FÚTBOL PROFESIONAL), its does not contain SEGUNDA B stuff either, only the two major levels. Let's have faith in the good people at BDFUTBOL.com...

Cheers, keep it up - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 19:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Player notability and professional leagues

Hi, thank you for the comments with regard to the points I made about the Scottish First Division. I completely agree that there should be a discussion about why all players in full-time professional leagues should be considered notable. Not every full-time player should be considered worthy of a wikipedia entry in my opinion, but I appreciate it is difficult to set a boundary. My motivation for adding the Scottish First Division was not that I believe all players in this league should be considered notable, but that it seemed unfair to exclude this division while a number of other small countries have lower divisions on the list with (in my opinion) a highly questionable full-time professional status and no relevant references. I have removed the league from the draft player notability lower division section pending further discussion as you suggest. Deserter1 08:39, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Leicester Competitions

Hey, sorry mate. I was going to post but my internet went down for about 3 weeks and by the time it was back I had completely forgot. The reason I don't think we should be using those competitions is that I do not know any source which counts them among players' official appearence or goal tallies, either through the club or official reference books such as Rothman's. For example, Graham Cross' official club record of 599 appearances does not include his appearances in the Full Members Cup or Anglo-Italian trophy and I've never seen any official source which gives his total of 600 apps+ which he would have otherwise. OFAF also says that these competitions were non-first class fixtures, I don't quite know whether that means they were considered reserve fixtures or not, but it seems odd to me to be going against all official stats and listing Graham Cross as having 620 appearances or whatever. --MIR17 (talk) 11:47, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

• Hey, thanks for the reply. I wasn't just using OFAF as one source, it's just that Graham Cross' 599 appearance record for example is widely cited as the official club record. Hmmm, perhaps I was thinking that it's the Anglo-Scottish/Texaco Cup which was considered a reserve team fixture rather than the Anglo-Italian/Full Members Trophy. --MIR17 (talk) 20:56, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

• • Yes those stats at filbertstreet.net seem to be only starts and seem to miss out substitute appearances for some reason. Checked it against a couple of other players to and it was the same. OFAF lists the games and the Leicester team, but doesn't include them in the complete apps/goals history at the back. I'll have a look through later to see what Graham Cross, Keith Weller etc. would have had if these had been counted --MIR17 (talk) 09:00, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Dai Astley

Hai, I only added his Merthyr career (ref is the Sweet book) and completed/corrected his league stats (ref Michael Joyce was already there) Added a ref for his Blackpool career. Cattivi (talk) 17:22, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Welsh task force

I don't know if you've seen this thread - [2]. I thought it might interest you. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 19:09, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Jack Fowler (footballer)

Hi - thanks for the note. The "Who's Who of Welsh International Soccer Players" lists him as having been born in Cardiff (as does Joyce) and that his first club was Mardy - no mention of Maerdy at all. That seems to have come from the Greens on Screen database. Interestingly, the Mardy A.F.C. article gives no indication of where they are based; presumably it's at Mardy, Monmouthshire which is some way from Maerdy (in Glamorgan). I'm not sure if this helps much, but I guess a little re-writing is called for. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 17:20, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Tranmere managers

Hey there. I see you've changed the list of people to have managed Tranmere to as on the club's website. Seems sensible, but I think the site is wrong. Moreton and Jones aren't listed as managers in the relevant books (such as "Tranmere Rovers 1921–1997: A Complete Record"), and I suspect (but can't be sure) that the books are more reliable. The waters are further muddied by the fact that there wasn't really any football being played during WW2. I'd appreciate your comments about what's the best way forward but, either way, would like List of Tranmere Rovers F.C. managers and Template:Tranmere Rovers F.C. managers to be consistent. Cheers! U+003F^? 09:30, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. I took the liberty of moving the conversation to Tranmere Rovers F.C. managers. U+003F^? 12:56, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

List of Swansea City A.F.C. players

Thanks for the note - I must put my hands up and say that although it appears that I was responsible for expanding the article, all I actually did was drag it from another user's sandbox, where it had sat untouched for over a year. I agree with what you say, and I don't see why the list can't be extended to cover the entirety of the club's history, especially the early international players. I guess the problem, as always, is sources. That's why I am so lucky as a Southampton supporter to have so many good club histories etc. to use; the Hagiology Publishing team are magnificent. Feel free to change the list as much as you like. Cheers. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 19:04, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

AYC

I have done a history merge and given Faycal.09 a final warning (I have had to do this before following his cut and paste moves). If you spot him doing it again, please let me know. Number 57 10:42, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Message

Hello Eldumpo, I'm not good in english however I try to explain. First thank you for your message, On first I was not happy because you not contact me, however no problem and I thank you because you contact now and send me a message. I thank you too for your explain about the article and i agree that we must work together. The competition have a new name however I understand your explain because there is no much sources. I propose we will work on future in the Talk:African Youth Championship page. Regards. --Faycal.09 (talk) 21:16, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I proposed in WP:RM page, before you send me a message a request move, and I think it has been maybe accepted. If you want, we can put other sources if it's realy accepted. If they don't accept, we will work together too. Greetings. --Faycal.09 (talk) 21:28, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

In my belief, I think that would impolite of me to go back after intervention of "Number 57". I don't know if they will accept or not the new name. For me the new name is right however, I know there are not many sources however I put on the talk page the source of the official website of the CAF. But the important for me, we must and we need to work together on futur and I agree that we must ameliorate the articles in general. However u must know if they don't accept, I will agree and I hope that we continue working together. Greetings. --Faycal.09 (talk) 21:51, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

In my last message I meant that the official name is changed by CAF to African U-20 Championship. To finding other sources, I agree with you, we will add more sources to the article. Greetings. --Faycal.09 (talk) 23:14, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

African U-20 Championship editions after 2011

Hello Eldumpo, The 2011 edition's name of African Youth Championship is 2011 African U-20 Championship, I hope that you will not change the name please, same of 2013 & 2015 editions, I will make sources for that. Regards. --Faycal.09 (talk) 23:37, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Here we don't speak about all African Youth Championship, we speak about 2011 African U-20 Championship because it's the correct name, u can see all sources (rsssf, cafonline, soccerway) called the competition by this name. You ca see the logo of the competition, same thing. regards. --Faycal.09 (talk) 23:53, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I had always ameliorate the articles in wikipedia, and I will always do that. I saw the 8 cites yes right they called the competition by it old name, however because the new name is recent, I think we need time to see the new nomination in different internet sites and medias. However believe me the name has realy changed. give time and we will put cites with the new name. --Faycal.09 (talk) 00:55, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi, However I not agree about nomination of 2011 edition, what about the 9th cite that u add, on the top of the page we see African Youth Championship, this is a general name competition not changed yet in the website because the new nomination is recent, however u can see in the middle of the page U-20 and this reffert to the 2011 edition. Believe me the competition changed name to U-20 in the 2011 edition , we must wait and we will see informations about all that on the all websites.

I gives you a cite for the fair play team and the best goalkeeper (cafonline official) You can see the new nomination "U-20" of the competition. Now all youth fifa competitions are named (Under-...). Greetings. --Faycal.09 (talk) 10:58, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I mean there is table of the fair play team and the best goalkeeper for teams which qualified in 1/2 final. I will gives u a final table if I found. Greetings. --Faycal.09 (talk) 18:12, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

William Evans (rugby, born 1883)

Hi, I was wondering why you moved this article to the present title. Looking at the category of Welsh internationals, I see both formats are used, but it seemed there were more in the original format of this article i.e. with 'player' Has there been some discussion on this? Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 17:07, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi Eldumpo, I unwittingly caused a bit of a stir, User:Noq started a discussion on WT:RU#Mass name changes. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 20:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Leicester Past Players

• Hey, I know we discussed this before, but it would be much easier if we just put players apps and goals imo, it's much less time consuming, looks much better and this is how it's generally done as well, see the pages for past ManUtd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool players etc. --MIR17 (talk) 13:09, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I think having both League and Total is probably the way to go then, having all this cup and other as well, is too time consuming and a bit needless imo. --MIR17 (talk) 17:59, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Nationwide Football Annual: citations?

I note your recent comment that "more specific sites to annuals would be better". I take your point, but sometimes I feel unsure whether to cite commercial websites (including eBay). It's not just that their descriptions might occasionally be misleading; I also wonder whether their information is likely to remain accessible on a very long-term basis, once the item is no longer available for sale. References within the online catalogues of major reference libraries might be slightly less straightforward to access, but at least they are normally carefully entered and are not very likely to disappear. Any thoughts? Black Combe (talk) 20:28, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Iran Pro League

ok!!what do you think about big four table??!!!because in Iran and the journals this four team called big 4!!can i add this table or not???!! Shahin (talk) 20:15, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Ricardo Oliveira - reply

Hi there DUMPO, VASCO here,

no problem explaining, even though i think i already did so in the summary (summary which, if it was again a bit exaggerated, i apologize for): the NFT.com site as a ref did not source well the sentence "Oliveira began his career at Associação Portuguesa de Desportos, before moving to Santos FC for 2003", in my opinion. There, we have ALL clubs, not just those two.

Also, it was you who removed correct (unsourced i admit it) info in early CLUB CAREER (his Copa Libertadores exploits), it is now reinstated and ref'd (and not two paragraphs as you claim, but one - and two lines at that). I think NFT.com, as a ref, should only be used in the STATISTICS chart many players have in their article, in other cases, it's a bit "shady".

All in all, i again apologize for any inconvenience, have a great 2012 - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 17:57, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Brian Green

I've added the source. It's a Bryne FK official publication. You can find B. Green at page 22. I've also added a full list at Bryne FK, with the reference. Cheers.--Latouffedisco (talk) 09:24, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Flags

As I understand your very knowledgable on flags ive replied at the main page but wonder if you can clarify to me whether the suggestion used in the mod version which I think was the trigame system does indeed meet that policy. My reasoning for the trial didn't really include flags as its ok the way it is but as it was discussed and i like that version as much as the current I included it in the rationale. To me section headers And a version with no squad numbers is the biggest thing plus anything else that it highlights. .Edinburgh Wanderer 20:03, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

thanks for taking the time to explain that appreciate it. I'm not really fussed eithier way to be honest if the current one is more accurate then in happy with that if everyone else is. I still want to trial the template further as the two British clubs it is currently on isnt enough to gain opinion. The headers and a version without squad numbers need to be sorted. The squad number part is an issue as the old template looks bad but this one is worse because its based on a wikitable and it's basically a whole empty column. Edinburgh Wanderer 21:01, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Vietnam

The move was a simple cut & paste, and has now been reverted - no history missing, article now back at V-League (Vietnam) and the user warned. Cheers, GiantSnowman 18:32, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Slovak Second League

Reverted & user warned! Cheers, GiantSnowman 19:13, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Think I've managed to get them all, let me know if you notice any more. I have issued a final warning for his disruption - page blanking and cut & paste moves. GiantSnowman 12:13, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

iQual

I have reverted his 2 cut & paste moves and, seeing as I gave him a final warning last time not to do this, I have blocked him for 48 hours, advising him to use WP:RM. GiantSnowman 10:08, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Porto stats

Hi there DUMPO, VASCO "here",

you can try FORADEJOGO.NET, sometimes the stats are quite complete, sometimes they are not (not just PORTO players, all the players of all nationalities that have played in my country), other than that i have no idea as to where stats can be found, IF they can. FOOTBALLZZ.COM is indeed a good source for current players, and it does seem they are incomplete, only from 2003 onwards do they "exist".

Regards, happy week - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 16:41, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

List of Malmö FF managers FLC

Hi! I've replied to your comments, do you have anything else add? Feel free to support or oppose the nomination at the FLC page, thanks! --Reckless182 (talk) 16:18, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Stuart Williams (footballer)

Hi - thanks for the message. I hope it was only a minor hiccup. Surely Saints can't blow it now. I have several Saints related book as well as the Wales international Who's Who so I should be able to add something. I've just moved house, and everything is in turmoil at present, so it may be a few days. Cheers. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 12:11, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

WP:FPL

My apologies, for I linked the wrong document. This is what I meant to link and one of the mentions is on page 22, where it says Fanno parte della Federazione le leghe a cui è demandata l’organizzazione dei campionati professionistici (lega Serie A, lega Serie B e lega Pro) e dilettantistici (lega Nazionale Dilettanti) ..., which does indeed refer to all 4 leagues as professional. Sorry for the confusion. mgSH 10:28, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

No problem. You might consider getting rid of the EPFL link too. The only reference to professional leagues is in relation to the Lega Nazionale Professionisti, a body that no longer exists. mgSH 11:36, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

WP:FPL

First of all, thank you for the response. I was curious to see if romanian Liga II met the standards (though it has only professional players, the licencing rules aren't verry strict, and there are two series). And also, do U-19 internationals meet WP:GNG? And is there anyway to recover a deleted page?Katz191 (talk) 18:35, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I know that Liga II has only professional players because a Liga II club must register their player contracts at the league (acording to the licencing rules), and no Liga II player earns less than what he needs to train. Having a signed contract with a team (that includes a high enogh income) makes you a professional player in Romania. But I am finding it verry hard to find any sources, yet alone reliable sources. (maybe because i don't know exaclty where to look). As for the deleted articles, I am certain they will soon meet WP:FPL, at wich point I will go to WP:Footy and ask them for my articles back.Katz191 (talk) 21:58, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Roberto Etxebarria Arruti

Hi there DUMPO, VASCO here,

please (please!) leave the storyline in the current state, i worked my derriere for it after finding in a near-death state, and now you revert me on almost everything? Really hard to understand, and here's why: 1 - he did play for EIBAR and ALAVÉS; 2 - his official debut was against Barakaldo CF (i can add it as a ref if it's THAT IMPORTANT instead of just clicking on his Bilbao profile); 3 - he played for the Basque Country XI during the Spanish Civil War, also summarily removed; 4 - the Athletic Bilbao official tally was obtained by taking ten minutes, counting and recounting from his official club profile, you also removed it; 5 - please leave BDFUTBOL as link, not ref, please.

In one thing you are 100% correct though (thanks for correcting me), due to the civil conflict he only played eight years with Athletic, not more than one decade. I will try to find more refs about his Bilbao tenure, but it will be hard. Why are links so underrated?

Attentively, kind regards - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 17:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

• Hi there DUMPO. Picking up from part of your message and speaking of removals...and you removed almost my ENTIRE storyline. I told you before, it's terribly difficult to find refs for older players, if not impossible (this one played in the 20s man!).

Please don't think i sent you the last message and then said "Fooled him well, article stays as i want!". No, i immediately went out looking for refs, but found NONE no matter what searchword i googled it with.

More: no, i did not remove anything, the BDFUTBOL.com source is there still, so i RELOCATED it. Eldumpo, i reiterate it: i have never encountered any problems in my storylines, why this? Answering another question you posed...a list of full games for Athletic? I can't find anything else then the LINK#5.

Also, i see your point when you say the only ref does not mention anything about debut, but let me counter with "Shouldn't you be assuming GOOD FAITH"? Also, in his Bilbao profile, in the full list of games, the first game is against Barakaldo CF, so it's THE TRUTH".

Again, i will visit the Spanish web and try to find sources. Also, don't worry, i'm almost certain i will leave WP anyday now, will leave people alone with my approaches, respectable as the others i thought (thought...). Cheers - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 13:39, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

• One more example of me trying to meet WP standards: much as i hate it (i think it looks horrible in the articles' overall display), "doubled" one link and added it as ref, to backup his official totals for Bilbao. I repeat, my M.O. (respectable as the others) is that a REFERENCE should be newspapers/other media outlets articles, official web releases, etc; the stats with only stats and other similar info should be LINKS.

Regards - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 13:47, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

• Another source added :) --Vasco Amaral (talk) 17:13, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Great work improving it, thanks! However, four issues "remain" with me (two "old"): 1 - again you removed my storyline when it did nothing wrong (1929 La Liga third-place for Bilbao); 2 - you added, wrongfully i think, two titles for your refs (i.e. GAMES 1928/29 SEASON is one title, followed by another title, PLAYER: ROBERTO), i tried to rearrange it, if i was wrong i am sorry; 3 - please leave the BILBAO profile as LINK as well, it's 300% acceptable (next time i'll say 400%) to have sources doubled; 4 - other than the already known-to-all-of-us-veteran-users overlinking there also is a thing called "overwording" in my opinion, no need to say "LA LIGA" or "COPA DEL REY" all the time, using variations (domestic cup, national championship) is just as OK i think.

Happy weekend - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 23:48, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Wikitable

GS is away for the weekend so I thought I'd have a look. I hope the table at Dárvin Chávez meets with your approval now. Argyle 4 Life^talk 10:18, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Yep, just got back, thanks to Argyle for helping out. GiantSnowman 11:55, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

REFS vs LINKS - Other

Hi there DUMPO, VASCO "here",

a couple of pointers/requests: please stop removing the BDFUTBOL.com as LINK, someone told me a while ago that we could have links repeated as refs (or vice-versa). See for example Eugenio Bustingorri, i added a sub-link of the site to source some matches, then left the overall link (total stats, the pictures) as an external link.

Please (please) stop removing (almost) everything i write in the storyline, that takes many minutes of work, and it does not contain any POV/WEASEL whatsoever (the official games a player has played, the games/goals in a given season, which ended in relegation/trophy conquest). Yes i know, "you have to have everything cited". Do you know how many people have picked on that in six years?: ONE! If i was doing a seriously wrong thing, i would have been warned and/or reverted many many times, i have not. I try to accommodate and find refs whenever i can, sometimes it's just not possible, especially with older players (60s and before), see for example how i tried to reach a compromise between me and you in José Ignacio Fernández Palacios, where you can also find an example of the BDFUTBOL stuff i explain above.

Attentively, happy week - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 16:28, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

• No reply...i hope i did not come across as rude, not my intention man, but i apologize if so. --Vasco Amaral (talk) 21:03, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Indeed a bit hasty i am, still have not improved on that :( --Vasco Amaral (talk) 22:42, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, i know, these users you mention operate in a different and much more respected "sphere" than me and i acknowledge that without hesitation, but i also know for a fact (not lying) Snowman once told me that i could choose between having stuff as refs or links, he trusted my judgement just as long as the article had some refs (again i repeat, can't remember who told me, LINKS can be repeated in the REFS department or viceversa, so don't remove the BDFUTBOL.com link please).

Again, i mention that no one has ever complained about my approach (other than User:Joao10Siamun in Bertrand Laquait for improving the storyline! See summary for yourself man), please stay with me on this one my friend. I will try to arrange refs as much as i possibly can, as i did just today in José Ufarte (check edit history to see if the article is or IS NOT improved, if you think it is not i rest my case).

Attentively - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 20:51, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

• Added +1 ref in INT.CAREER. Also, what happened to WP:BOLD and WP:AGF (and i admit i rarely do the second as each day goes by)? If the INT.GOALS section said he scored 20/30 goals it'd be odd, but two, is it really an urgent citing matter? Regarding last para of CLUB CAREER, again i see people can't be bothered to click on the WIKILINK that shows that Racing de Santander actually ranked 17th and actually got relegated in that particular season, maybe it's me, again i admit i am as dumb as they come regarding WP technicalities.

I tried my best :( --Vasco Amaral (talk) 21:23, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Notts County seasons

Stats do exist for seasons 1864 - 1876 in book The Official History of Notts County by Tony Brown 1996 ISBN 1874427615, though not many games are recorded for these seasons, between 4 and 12. Regards --palmiped |  Talk  11:36, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Portuguese Second Division

Thanks - move reverted and user warned. GiantSnowman 11:25, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

No problems. You can revert it yourself, I didn't use any of my tools to undo the copy-and-paste moves. GiantSnowman 19:26, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Jandro (footballer) / Others

Hi there ELDUMPO, AL here,

1 - after seeing my improvements in the page, will you now cut me some slack or not? I'd appreciate it; 2 - Miguel Ángel Riau = WRONG, he's a WINGER because i know it, the site from which you "sourced" does not contain the position winger, because it's all merged into midfielders, but he plays as a WINGER OK (and why remove the transfermarkt link which is more good than bad - yes i know your summary said "DELETE" but why? "DELETE" kind of goes without saying)? 3 - Please, PLEASE (pretty please), stop removing the correct info in the start of Roberto Etxebarria Arruti's playing career, he played for SD Eibar (with another name), he played for Deportivo Alavés, worked my ass at El Mundo Deportivo's archives, found nothing. You might say "What happened to WP:SOURCES?", i'd reply "What happened to WP:BOLD?"

Attentively, happy week - --AL (talk) 14:51, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Ah, have a look in the link you removed in Riau's page, what is his primary position there? Thank you. --AL (talk) 14:52, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• No i do not own WP articles, don't know where you got that idea from (and you reverted me time and time again in Roberto Etxebarria Arruti after i asked you please not to as the info therein was correct, isn't that WP:OWN as well?). In Jandro's article, yes some bits still unref'd, but is it better or not than it was before (simple question man)? I think so. Oh, and i did not remove your link (OK i did first but then i reinstated it, revamped, now we have his BDFUTBOL link leading us to the goals he scored in that particular season).

My summaries? A bit hysterical but i don't think i disrespected you or insulted you, and i was beginning to think you had something against me (hence my reactions in writing), you don't, i'm very happy to hear that, and i apologize for my strange antics. In Riau, you deleted a link "for the sake of it" as you accuse me of doing often, would like to know why.

About Arruti and that first sentence: can you please tell me what are your views about WP:BOLD? Thank you in advance. --AL (talk) 19:14, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Added +1 ref in Jandro's storyline. Per your words in my message ("Also, please note that the second paragraph is uncited"), you surely don't mean EVERY WORD in the articles needs a ref, that's very very strange. --AL (talk) 20:08, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Fawzi Saadi

Hello. Yes DZFoot is very reliable. The Saadi you are referring to in that RSSSF link is Atef Saadi, who played for CRB from 2004 to 2006. For Fawzi Saadi, his DZFoot profile says that he joined in January 2005. See clubs listed on the right, *2005->2005 means he joined in the winter transfer window). On the topic, any chance you can find his stats with AFC Bournemouth? I'm certain he played for the team in League One but I haven't been able to find any details. I'll add an infobox to the article and contact DZfoot to see if they have his stats with CRB as well. TonyStarks (talk) 21:16, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Nevermind, just noticed that DZfoot does have his stats listed on there. I'll add the infobox tonight if I have time. TonyStarks (talk) 21:19, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Horace Blew

Thanks for the note - sorry for the delay in getting back but I'm currently touring France and Spain. In answer to your query - yes, the link works fine, although it doesn't add a lot to our knowledge of his one-match career for Man Utd. -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:38, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

1 Liga (Slovakia)

Why did you move this page? Even in the ref the league is called 2. liga --79.216.57.190 (talk) 17:51, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

2. Divisjon

Hi there. The discussion you started on Talk:Norwegian Second Division shows that moving the article to 2. Divisjon is controversial, so I don't think you should have moved the article without a WP:RM. I've reverted the page-moves, and I encourage you to start a RM, so that we can reach a consensus on naming of Norwegian leagues. Mentoz86 (talk) 12:10, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Hey Eldumpo, In case you haven't noticed, I made a suggestion on the talk page of Norwegian Second Division. – Michael (talk) 22:00, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

English footballer stubs

Hello, Eldumpo. You have new messages at Qetuth's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

After my last response to you on my talk page, I thought more about it and decided to go ahead and start a discussion at WT:FOOTY. --Qetuth (talk) 04:09, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

List of association football rivalries

Hello achi. Are you an Arab? Ok, I un derstand, but belive me, all this derbies what i add are true, but give me a little time to add new soruces, because i have at the moment a lot of stuff to do, but i will finde sources. Best whishes--Nado158 (talk) 20:37, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

ahh ok :). I thought it becaus of your name El-dumpo and i saw 2011 Saudi Crown Prince Cup on your page. Becasue of this i thought you are Arab. Achi = brother I am also not an Arab.--Nado158 (talk) 21:14, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Tchoumi Houmi Elvis

Hi, I've removed your PROD tag from this article as you did not provide any rationale. Please take to AfD. Thanks, GiantSnowman 11:40, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

It wasn't self-explanatory as there was no explanation! Like I said, take to AfD to deal with the article. GiantSnowman 11:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Personally I would never accept PROD rationale in the edit summary over in the template itself, hence why I removed it. GiantSnowman 11:58, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

John Butcher

Hi. It's probably on your watchlist, but just letting you know I've moved the article back to John Butcher (English footballer). I gave a short explanation in the move summary, but I'm happy to discuss it further if you'd like. Cheers, Jenks24 (talk) 11:41, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 8

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Barnstar

		The Editor's Barnstar
		For your surgical removal of uncited material from the Jetconnect article, I hereby award you this Barnstar. YSSYguy (talk) 23:36, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 19

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Invitation to take a short survey about communication and efficiency of WikiProjects for my research

Hi Eldumpo, I'm working on a project to study the running of WikiProject and possible performance measures for it. I learn from WikiProject Football talk page that you are an active member of the project. I would like to invite you to take a short survey for my study. If you are available to take our survey, could you please reply an email to me? I'm new to Wikipedia, I can't send too many emails to other editors due to anti-spam measure. Thank you very much for your time. Xiangju (talk) 17:37, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

assists table

I would like to know your view about the necessity of assists tables in league articles here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#Assists_in_season_article. --BoguSlav 15:50, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Recent reverts - Please help!

Hi, I'm Jodosma. You reverted my edits of 1987-88 in English football, saying in your ref summary reinstating cites. The cites you refer to are to soccerbase.com. Perhaps I have not understood this web site correctly; for instance, in the sub-section ==Diary of the season== we see - "3 July 1987 - Chelsea sign defender Tony Dorigo from Aston Villa for £475,000" followed by a link to ref 4 which is a link to www.soccerbase.com. I have looked high and low on that web site and can find no mention of the Tony Dorigo transfer; I can only find info about the events of today or recent times. If I have misunderstood things could you please give me a guide so that I can find the Tony Dorigo info on www.soccerbase.com for myself in which case I can then put some useful info into the article about that transfer. Jodosma (talk) 21:36, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Please forget about the above. I learned how to use soccerbase and I agree now that it's a good source. Ciao. Jodosma (talk) 09:06, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I have reverted my other edits of similar type. I think those soccerbase refs could be improved a bit by making each one point to the required page within soccerbase rather than all just pointing to the soccerbase home page; if I can find time I may do that. Jodosma (talk) 10:45, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks mate, looks like I gotta lotta work to do. Ciao. Jodosma (talk) 19:12, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Semarang

I reverted an edit of yours on Semarang because at least part of it was referenced. I should have just made the edit rather than reverting, so I just wanted to apologize for taking the lazy option. Flat Out let's discuss it 08:33, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

And now I see I missed that the referenced section was moved down, not deleted. Sorry ! Flat Out let's discuss it 09:18, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Quique Estebaranz

Hi there DUMPO, longtime no "see",

i have now retrieved info for all the TRUE info you reverted in the article, due to the fact it was not cited. Regarding the ref in the international career i removed, why did i do it? Because i added proper references (newspaper articles in this case) for his FIRST and THIRD caps last time, and now i added another for his SECOND international, WP policy does not forbid the use of foreign-speaking sources, please leave BDFUTBOL.com as what it is, a link.

If you again choose to reinsert it, i give up and promise not to remove it again (just as long as the other three from EMD stay), i tried to explain my M.O. to the best of my abilities, and always politely even though you felt differently in the past.

Happy week from Portugal --AL (talk) 22:22, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

• Every since that run-in in Miguel Ángel Riau you seem to have "frozen" me, i have apologized numerous times (can't be doing it forever i'm sure you'd agree), i thought this merited some feedback to discuss the technicalities, i see it does not. Out of respect for you (but especially for MYSELF) i'll leave you alone (as several editors in the past because i see they just won't talk with me anymore - here's a shining example with an anon editor, i make a faux pas in a summary in Iago Aspas, apologize for it, what does the other guy do? Remove the messages summarily from his talkpage IMMEDIATELY after receiving them, yes i'm so very bad and everybody else's so very good, they never make mistakes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:86.28.152.211 - check edit history), communication-wise that is, i'll continue to do the necessary changes in articles whenever i think they are in need of such.

About the technicalities in Estebaranz' article, you told me several times your main concern was that the contents were properly sourced. Well, in my last edits, as i said in my message above, i duly addressed those concerns. Goodbye, peace and happy editing --AL (talk) 14:16, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks for the reply. A bit of a misunderstanding: i did not say you removed my refs and added just BDFUTBOL.com in its place, i said you removed storyline which was uncited but TRUE (the late club career for example, his spells with CD Ourense and Gimnástica Segoviana CF; his individual honour).

Now i'd better stick to my promise, not bother anyone anymore unless they come to me first. I often make these (wrong at times, not always but at times) assumptions that if people log in and don't reply to me they must be upset with me and/or my work, so it's best for everyone if i avoid these situations that only waste everyone's time. Regards as well --AL (talk) 22:27, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

UAE League

Your request, if you want to go that way, then let's do it, but the managerial changes that are in 2013-14 article then need to be put in the 2012-13 article. I'll work on something over the next few days if not beaten to it. But, you need to think, no other article on Wikipedia does what you want, every other article works in the same way as the article currently is. Once the last ball of the season is kicked, the article practically ends and everything else starts in a new season, these manager changes are for 2013-14 not for 2012-13 which has just ended. Druryfire (talk) 17:26, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Pre season is what everyone calls things that happen prior to the season starting, it's not for the next season, but the current season in question. If we use this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_Premier_League#Managerial_changes you can see the example which the UAE league is following, it makes sense to me to have the managerial changes tha are currently listed, to not have them suddenly loses the link as to what happened between one season and the next unless you go reading all the references which I don't think the average user does.Druryfire (talk) 19:39, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Humber Derby

Hi, I thought I would write to you to explain my edits on this page in which I have reverted a couple of your editions. Firstly, you mention that it appears there is no such rivalry between Grimsby Town and Scunthorpe United and swiftly removed the record box. I can confirm as a Grimsby season ticket holder that I can assure you Scunthorpe are our main rivals, and we are viewed in the same light by them, the fact that the clubs haven't met recently in the League does not take the rivalry away. It's the most close knitted rivalry in Lincolnshire, a lot more than Grimsby v Lincoln for example. The derby between the two is also classed as a Lincolnshire derby as well as the Humber derby. Also you removed to recent results section charting the past 20 results in a Humber derby. Although I didn't create this chart, I don't understand the logic behind removing it. I agree with the colouring, but then again I don't think it does any harm, having this table is certainly a good reference point for the readers of the page, and removing it downsizes and in some way dumbs down the article. I have reverted your edit to remove this as I feel there is no real reason for its removal. Please by all means feel free to remove the colour to see if it improves the article and is a little more easy on the eyes. Kind Regards, Footballgy (talk) 12:19, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

It's pretty much general knowledge in this part of the country that games between the three are known by that name, if you want to check up for quoutations you may have to look up the old match reports on the BBC or Sky, but like I say its general knowledge and common sense that games between these three are known as that or the "Humberside derby" due to all three clubs geographical placement next to the Humber estuary. For example if you type in Humber derby there is a reference to a Hull v Scunthorpe match using the Humber derby name which is the second link down. I also disagree with removing the results section, other pages to do with rivalries i.e the Manchester derby go one further and list all time results, I see no reason why we should encourage readers to click off Wikipedia to view the latest results on another website when they can read up on this page. Like I say it downsizes and dumbs down the article, plus the only real statistical website I can come across are on the footymad.net database, like I say feel free to remove some of the colour if it's easier on the eye, but I don't get what removing valid infomation from the page will benefit the article going forward. Thanks, Footballgy (talk) 14:11, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

U-21 Euro squad-templates

Hi there. Two years ago, you participated in this discussion regarding squad-templates for UEFA under-21 championships, so I wanted to let you know that some of the same templates again are up for discussion here. Mentoz86 (talk) 11:59, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

August 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to List of UTC time offsets may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• ''Principal cities: [[Colombo]], [[Delhi]]]''
• *[[Australia]]<ref name=ttaus>>{{cite web|url=http://www.timetemperature.com/australia/australia_time_zones.shtml|title=AUSTRALIA

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 21:23, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

List of Wales international footballers (alphabetical)

Thanks for reverting my error - sorry about that. The article needs to be brought up to date, with the stats from the last 15 months etc. The referencing on the article is a bit of a mess, and it's rather unfortunate that there is no single definitive source. At present, however, the list is in effect unreferenced. Although there are multiple "Sources" listed, there is no indication of what stats came from where. I think there ought to be an additional column for each player, indicating the source of the data, something like I did on the List of Southampton F.C. players. I would suggest that for players who "retired" before 2008, we use "The Complete Wales FC 1876-2008", and for more recent/current players, we use eu-football.info. (Although the latter is a complete list, I have found that the stats are a bit haywire for the early days, especially with the large number of players of the same surname; too many Jones, Davis/Davies, Williams etc!) Once this is done, we could strip off most of the "Sources", many of which are of little relevance. Any thoughts? -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 11:43, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I'll go with the website, with an extra note wherever it is not correct (mostly in the 19th century). -- Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 16:52, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Time zones

I've added support for a custom time zones ref to the appropriate infoboxes. To use it, simply add the following line to the infobox in the article where you want to override the automatically generated reference:

|time_zone_ref=<ref name="RefNameGoesHere">Reference goes here</ref>

Please let me know if you have any questions or run into any bugs (I've tested, but you never know what may slip through). Hope this helps, and hopefully someone comments on my source quality concerns at WP:RSN soon. If you could hold off adding the custom sources until someone comments there, I'd appreciate it. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); November 15, 2013; 16:36 (UTC)

List of UTC time offsets

Would you please clarify why you have undone the recent changes I made to the List of UTC time offsets? You have suggested that this is for "simplicity", but (as discussed below) I fail to see that my edit add any complication - and in any event, we should not be sacrificing accuracy and correctness for the sake of simplicity (see US examples mentioned below).

I made those changes because none of the listed countries that I changed is actually part of the United Kingdom, and the previous wording (as restored by you) suggests that they are part of it, and thus is blatantly incorrect. This is particularly confusing in the UTC+0 Zone where the entry currently reads "United Kingdom (Including Guernsey, Isle of Man, Jersey and Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha)", thus listing the United Kingdom in its own right and then implying that the other listed entities are part of the UK - which they are not!

In making that change, I was following the example already set (in several entries) where United States Minor Outlying Islands are identified separately from the United States itself. Why do you consider that style to be acceptable for US entries and not for UK entries?

How it is any more confusing to list "United Kingdom (British Overseas Territories): Pitcairn Islands" (which is correct) than to list "United Kingdom : Pitcairn Islands" (which is not correct because the Pitcairn Islands are NOT part of the UK)? A similar question arises is respect of all the other entries I changed. Please refer to British Overseas Territories which states:

The fourteen British Overseas Territories are territories under the jurisdiction and sovereignty of the United Kingdom. They do not, however, form part of it ... most being self-governing. [emphasis added]

If (for whatever reason) they are not to be indicated as "British Overseas Territories" (or "Crown dependencies" for Guernsey, Jersey * Isle of Man) then it would be more correct to list them simply in their own right under their own names, since they are separate entities in their own right, many having their own governments.

TrevorD (talk) 01:04, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

January 2014

Please note that Kurgan Oblast and others are translated to English as Kurgan Oblast, not Kurgan Region, therefore such edits are not acceptable. Please stop reverting. Thank you for understanding.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:42, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, now I see your reason, and I was probably been too harsh. However, it is not a good idea to base the edits on bad translations made in Russia by Russians. If you want to rename all Oblasts to Regions (and we have dozens of thousends of articles where they are called Oblasts), the best way is not to edit-war in one article but open a discussion at Wikipedia:Wikiproject Russia.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:46, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I found an old discussion Talk:Federal subjects of Russia/Archive 1#"Subject", but it discusses the specific term Oblast only tangentially and quickly goes away. Will try to search more.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:58, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Ray Ternent

I am doing bulk corrections to the Persondata template and if any of my edits get reverted, I am keen to find out why just to improve my detection software. Ray Ternent was reverted from English footballer, back to just footballer. The article says English born and he played for English clubs. Some people interpret "English footballer" as meaning someone who played football in England. Are you aware of anything about his nationality that is not mentioned in the article? Periglio (talk) 07:40, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

March 2014

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Staafros1

I've left a note - if you notice they repeat their behaviour then let me know and I'll block. GiantSnowman 10:11, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Gan River (Jiangxi)

I've reverted and left the user a note. GiantSnowman 20:40, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, definitely - in fact I removed 'language info' from a China-related article myself yesterday, see this, because it was not sourced. GiantSnowman 08:09, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: your audacity, but perhaps not wisdom, grows with every edit, it seems. There even is a Simplified Chinese source which remained in the article even after your scourging of it that is mainly about this footballer, and for Wikidata, for starters. Next time, be on the look-out for either. "My master, Annatar the Great, bids thee ^welcome!" 02:19, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

FYI, I have reported LoM's apparent abuse of Twinkle in his recent edit-war with you at WP:ANI. GiantSnowman 16:04, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Eldumpo, come to your senses. A government source that explains both the provincial origins and their abbreviations is more comprehensive and authoritative than a Western one. And although I have no bearing on the classification of Gan, Wu, Yue, etc. as separate 'languages' or 'dialects', 'variety of Chinese' avoids taking a stance. You also removed the general location within the province. Enough is enough. "My master, Annatar the Great, bids thee ^welcome!" 22:58, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Theres no basis in the statement that Chinese sources are automatically better than Western ones, but this is the English Wikipedia and I see no benefit in removing perfectly good English sources. Why are you so rude? Eldumpo (talk) 21:00, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Theres no basis in the statement that Chinese sources are automatically better than Western ones Sure but it is the government we are talking about here, not some travel guide with flowery language. Enough said. Why are you so rude? I prefer keeping to my usual business, and seeing reverts through the notification system is similar to being awakened for no good reason. "My master, Annatar the Great, bids thee ^welcome!" 21:59, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Ledes in WP:CHINA articles

If you cease removing {{zh}} from the first sentence of any article you come across, except in cases where there is {{Infobox Chinese}} transcluded, I will cease following you. It's the simplest anti-escalation change you can adopt. "My master, Annatar the Great, bids thee ^welcome!" 02:11, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

List of Association football rivalries

Is there a reason you undid a huge chunk of the added rivalries rather than finding sources/reading the club articles themselves to make the list complete? Feels like just doing 3 steps backwards now. There is a discussion on the talk page and it was agreed to find sources for existing rivalries and not just mindlessly deleting them even if they are unreferenced, especially as some of them are common knowledge in the footballing world. Deletion is counter-productive, unless you can actually prove that a certain rivalry is factually incorrect, but as for now, please add references and not just delete other people's input Abcmaxx (talk) 18:32, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Redirect

Hello. I've undid the blanking of Oswestry White Star F.C. for now. Please nominate it for deletion under RfD or CSD. Thanks! KJ ^{«Click Here»} 23:26, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Fawzi Saadi

Reverted and warned. GiantSnowman 18:54, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

August 2014

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Clarification

Aha, thanks for clarifying! GiantSnowman 08:33, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

List of largest cities in Brazil

I suggest you take the case for your edits to the talk page, and if there is no response (and I don't think there will be) edit the article again. If they blindly revert you again then I suggest DRN? I've left them a note about edit warring. GiantSnowman 08:19, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

This probably needs to be raised at WP:DRN, as It's two editors disagreeing on content; sorry I can't be of more help. GiantSnowman 16:51, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Zamyusoff

I've indef blocked, he was been warned multiple times before, as far back as 2010! GiantSnowman 22:15, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Not as far as I know, sorry. GiantSnowman 08:11, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Zawisza

Is there any reason you keep on destroying the Zawisza article removing information from it? By the English sources are no more reliable than any other language sources puely based on language. Zawisza WAS (fact) founded in Koszalin. It IS a club with army roots, in fact their nickname is Wojskowi for a reason, and the Eurosport article is simply WRONG, it was not due to poor results, that makes no sense anyway as it is the most successful Zawisza team in history Abcmaxx (talk) 12:14, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

I've left a message. GiantSnowman 19:26, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

List of association football rivalries

I've re-removed the unreferenced content and sent them a warning. GiantSnowman 08:14, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

2015 NRL season

Revert, warn, report. I've left him a message. GiantSnowman 11:43, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

re:King Cups

i think you did not see talk page before i reverted your edits, but you can see it here, also you can see from FIFA.com that Al-Ittihad have won 8 times of Saudi King's Cup, which means they are not two comeptitions. Sorry for my bad language. حزل (talk) 13:28, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Could you move Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques Champions Cup page to the main article Kings Cup (Saudi Arabia)? حزل (talk) 01:05, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Requested move AZ Alkmaar

Hi, there is a move request at Talk:AZ Alkmaar#Requested move 21 July 2015 that you might be interested in. Qed237 (talk) 11:41, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Faroe Islands Premier League

Alexiulian25 (talk) 18:21, 31 July 2015 (UTC)What citation needed you need there man ? Is obvious. you added every season. and the number of teams is obvious. I do not know how some people think here on wikipedia.

Nomination of Average attendances of non-football clubs for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Average attendances of non-football clubs is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Average attendances of non-football clubs until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Armenian uncited info

No it's valid tagging, the info is uncited. I've reverted. GiantSnowman 08:38, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Saud Kariri

Sources might not break down by club, but that is the standard display on Wikipedia. As long as the source confirms the honour I see no real issues. GiantSnowman 19:10, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

School lists

Hi, Eldumpo! I'd like to discuss this edit.

It is common practice to list schools (especially Wikipedia-notable schools either due to having senior high school sections and/or due to secondary sources) in neighborhood and municipal articles. It is not necessary to have "independent references" to confirm that a school is located in a given neighborhood/municipality. It is perfectly acceptable to use the school's official website for that purpose.

I work with municipal and city articles and I will confirm for you that it's expected to see lists of schools in these articles. Also: Removing these lists starves these school articles from Wikipedia editor attention - it is necessary to link these articles together so that other editors can be aware of these articles' existence and can monitor, check, and modify them. Please ensure that these lists remain in the articles.

Thank you, WhisperToMe (talk) 04:38, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

P.S. Hotel articles those do need independent refs. "Sports Facilities" do not need independent refs if they are municipal/public facilities but they do if they are for-profit businesses. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:41, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: (and of course Eldumpo) - to be honest I don't see anything wrong with WTM's edits. Independent sources are preferred, of course, but non-independent sources are fine as well. GiantSnowman 17:14, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

If the New Cairo government does have its own list of schools in the city limits it could be used as an independent source, and also as a way of consolidating references (so only one reference is needed instead of six) WhisperToMe (talk) 17:26, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe: @GiantSnowman: OK, I note you both say that non-independent sources are acceptable for schools (presumably GS you agree with WTM that it needs to firstly be a school that has its own article), although I note that WP:SOURCE does talk of 3rd-party sources. Yes, using a New Cairo gov source would be better although still not really independent? Eldumpo (talk) 20:21, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

School lists for smaller cities/towns and neighborhoods of larger cities often include all schools (public/government elementary and middle schools rarely have their own articles but are often essential to the identities of these places) although there may be prose describing the schools that relies on secondary sources. Private schools are also listed with public schools, although they often have their own articles... many private schools go up to grade 12. Articles on larger cities (maybe around 300,000 or 400,000 residents) may only list high schools.

Using a New Cairo government source would be independent of the schools themselves although it's not independent of the subject. I'm trying to see if the municipal government of Cairo maintains any list of schools for foreigners with addresses.

Wikipedia allows use of non-independent sources in certain circumstances. The bulk of the article prose should rely on secondary sources but primary sources may be good for non-controversial things.

WhisperToMe (talk) 02:10, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

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Relativism

 Done GiantSnowman 16:59, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Please see GiantSnowman talk page for discussion. BlueMist (talk) 22:31, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Kumta

This page has no citations. Please have a look. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumta — Preceding unsigned comment added by Panpahe (talk • contribs) 21:41, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Bangalore

This article on "Bangalore" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangalore has full of generalizations and no citations. Please have a look. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Panpahe (talk • contribs) 19:15, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

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Macedonian First Football League

Who are you to delete that ? Why did you delete it ?--Alexiulian25 (talk) 01:12, 27 November 2015 (UTC) I took the data from the current table, you do not need a source from that 2 extra columns.--Alexiulian25 (talk) 01:12, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

What do you know about football ? What was wrong with what I add ?--Alexiulian25 (talk) 01:14, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I did change after other related football articles. How many football related articles with List of Champions did you read ??--Alexiulian25 (talk) 01:15, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Man, the list of cities has a separate column with the name of the teams also, so it is nothing wrong with it, other football articles has same thing, performances by city, check my profile and you will see I know about everything football related articles.

Wikipedia is not 100% copied information, it is just logic, a list sorting teams by city, for people like you, who do not know about clubs and their cities where they play. And it was not write by me, it was there before, I just changed a bit the format.--Alexiulian25 (talk) 10:27, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

List of Hungarian football champions
List of Dutch football champions

And many others ! So, I will not reverted, because the information is taken from the table, is not a mistake, you do not need sources for each line, so please explain this situation there, I do not have time to speak about this instead of improving more articles.--Alexiulian25 (talk) 10:54, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Many articles do not respect the "rules", many articles are stub and many many articles has lots of mistakes ! and instead to improve the stubs and correct other football articles, you lose your time reverting other people works because 2 columns in a table does not have references, (when the information has been take from the above table) it is just silly.--Alexiulian25 (talk) 10:56, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

How do you want Wikipedia to progress if you act like this ? If you understand and if you want a change read my User page and join in my team. Thanks!--Alexiulian25 (talk) 10:59, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Please get with the idea that no one respect the rules on Wikipedia ! Just for a few articles, but in rest everyone edits how they know, because no one pays you to edit here. I just tried to make this article to look like other articles football related ! And I just showed you another 2 articles with columns for second and third place and also permormance by city. It is much better like this, you can delimited the teams with same number of trophies ! Sorry, for getting annoyed but you should ask the previous editor before you delete his work.--Alexiulian25 (talk) 20:27, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

You can reply to me here, I will be watching this page for a while, so I talk about thousands of pages, I actually saw all the pages around the world with list of football champions and you can revert or correct everything, there are no many.

And, I did not revert your edits, I just add more, to look like on other pages. It is no point to delete it! It is good to demarcate the clubs with same number of titles. Another article with 1st 2nd and 3rd places : List of Spanish football champions--Alexiulian25 (talk) 20:44, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

You did revert my edits. As I said it's not just a matter of copying other pages, but of following what the sources say. Eldumpo (talk) 20:50, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

We still follow the rsssf.com just we add more information (2 more columns with 2nd and 3rd place) and I change the name in "performance" because the rest of articles of this type use this name! "Performances" and after "Performances by club" and "Performances by city" Every article it should be the same, will be more easy to find the information you want. What do you want to change ? What is bothering you exactly ? You know the information is correct, this is important !

And just like an idea you should know ... rsssf.com has multiple errors on different pages, believe me, so careful, do not believe whatever they have there.

Go, on my User page and read also what is there, maybe I will take you in my team in the future. I want the best for Wikipedia.--Alexiulian25 (talk) 21:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Why do you like to change some insignificant things ? like deleting "Performance by club" and this titles ? I named this because other articles has this name. Why to do not be the same format everywhere ? Here you have the reference for the 2nd and 3rd column : [3] (3rd place if you click each season)

And do not be such a narrow minded, to have reference for everything, when you have the information above in the article and you also have the information if you click on each season.

Arre you from FYROM ? You better improve last seasons of Macedonian Football Cup instead of fighting with me man.--Alexiulian25 (talk) 09:24, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Have you read WP:CITE? Not all articles need to be the same. I feel the sub-titles I added read better, and bearing in mind English is not your first language. The Soccerway list of seasons is useful but I still see no third places are listed. It seems that this information is not recorded by reliable sources. Also, you should use edit summaries. Eldumpo (talk) 09:32, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

I am not English - you can see this from my page, you do not need to respect exactly what is write there, no one does that, there are to many articles, the rules are respected on a few articles, it is not consistent, other articles are stubs, or full of mistakes everything is amateur here. So calm down, it is ok the third column with a source, because you can not find it, it is calculated by me from the table above. I do not need perfect English to edit tables with results, mainly I do this on each country article.

Are you from FYROM Macedonia ?--Alexiulian25 (talk) 10:36, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Eldumpo I have left a quick message regarding sourcing at Alex's talk page. GiantSnowman 18:37, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Eldumpo deletes Wikipedia content, not improve Wikipedia

Are you a spy? and delete material who is there from a long period, and not even added by me ?--Alexiulian25 (talk) 13:34, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

You are narrow minded, who are you to delete? you do not improve WIkipedia, you just delete if is not in a sources. That information was there from long time, not added by me. Did you think maybe this sources can be wrong ? How old are you man? You act like a narrow minded child.--Alexiulian25 (talk) 13:39, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

You have a special section on my page : "The most narrow minded people on Wikipedia".

Man, you have to delete the entire Wikipedia ! because you are here to change the rules, how many articles did you improve you f****** ****, you just delete, who are you? Good? you are a shame, go on google and try to find references, do not delete around Wikipedia. Especially my articles.--Alexiulian25 (talk) 13:46, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Ba pizda proasta, tu nu ai altceva de facut decat sa stergi ? ma muie, crucea matii, blestematule!--Alexiulian25 (talk) 16:12, 5 December 2015 (UTC)