Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

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% codes

I know that when linking to WP, a "paren open" "(" is %28, and "paren close" ")" is %29. I need the % code for hatch mark "#", and for hyphen "-". Thanks. Milkunderwood (talk) 23:15, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

See Percent-encoding. # = %23, - = %2D. Johnuniq (talk) 23:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Come to think of it, perhaps you should explain what you want to do. Percent encoding is rarely needed. Johnuniq (talk) 23:36, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Just to have a workable link for myself or someone else to get to the correct place. Thanks very much for your help, and for the Percent-encoding. Milkunderwood (talk) 23:42, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It's called percent-encoding. "#" is called a hash mark, not a hatch mark. By "linking to WP", I guess you mean to post a raw url like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example_(album) somewhere outside Wikipedia where some software converts it to a clickable link. What you need to encode depends on the software. "#" is %23 and works in links to Wikipedia but not in links to many other websites where "#" should be unchanged to work as a section link. "-" is %2D but I don't know any software where it needs encoding to produce a working link. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:52, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

It's more complicated than that. For instance I need a working link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Renaissance_theater_companies#Lafayette_Players_(1916%E2%80%931932). Here the "%E2%80%93" is a complicated way of expressing a hyphen. Apparently it also allows the open- and close-parentheses to work, so it does go to the correct article. But on both a Windows 10 and a Mac, for the hash mark to find the Lafayette Players section in the Harlem Renaissance article, neither "#" nor "%23" work. In giving this address to different people, I have no idea what hardware or software they may be using. In this instance, the wanted section is right at the top of the page and easily findable; but that won't be the case with other needed links. So far it's only at Wikipedia that I've occasionally run into this problem, not at other websites. Milkunderwood (talk) 00:51, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

%E2%80%93 is not a hyphen but an en dash. We often use special characters in page and section names. and our url's correspond to them without simplification so problems like this are more likely at Wikipedia than other websites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Renaissance_theater_companies#Lafayette_Players_(1916%E2%80%931932) has no parentheses in the page name, only the section name, so going to the right page should never be a problem. "Windows 10" is not enough to guess which software you are using to convert url's to links. Maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Renaissance_theater_companies#Lafayette_Players_%281916%E2%80%931932%29 will work. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:43, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Borel–Moore homology; need a central notification spot for ill-formed items

I am seeking a central location which can flag articles which seem to have been ill-formed for years. Borel–Moore homology has been recently touched by bots, but 2015 seems to be a recent readable version. Might there be such a location? (It turns out the good faith edit was 2019) --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 22:28, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

• The next observation is that some math markup, viz. <math>0</math>, as in "The first non-trivial calculation of Borel-Moore homology is of the real line. First observe that any <math>0</math>-chain is cohomologous to <math>0</math>. Since this reduces to the case of a point <math>p</math>, notice that we can take the Borel-Moore chain", is rendering into blank spaces or empty strings.
• Where are the readers of these articles? --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 23:03, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

@Ancheta Wis: The <math>0</math> issue is reported at #Math 0 and phab:T289218. I don't know what your first post refers to. If you report a perceived problem with a page then please always say what the problem is, even if it seems obvious to you. Others may see something different for a number of reasons. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:15, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

The first sentence of the article ends with a malformed harvard-style ref: "In topology, Borel−Moore homology or homology with closed support is a homology theory for locally compact spaces, introduced by (1960)." Which in 2015 read "In topology, Borel−Moore homology or homology with closed support is a homology theory for locally compact spaces, introduced by Borel and Moore (1960).". and which became ill-formed 03:10, 20 August 2019. -- 23:27, 22 August 2021 (UTC) -- I will now fix the 03:10, 20 August 2019 contribution, which had a missing pipe symbol, now that it's in the pipeline. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 23:37, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

@Ancheta Wis: I got the impression the article was unreadable to you. Is it really only about a few missing words in one place? I don't see why we would have a central location to flag something like that. If you don't know how to fix a minor issue on one article then just post to a general help page like Wikipedia:Help desk or Wikipedia:Teahouse. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:49, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

It looks like {{harvs}} permits |first= without |last=, which should probably be flagged as an error. I recommend bringing that problem up on the talk page for that template, to see if anyone is willing to code an error-tracking category for that template. Or, since there are only 1,500 transclusions and the use of the template is essentially deprecated, you could nominate the template at TFD to see if there is a consensus to replace it with a supported format. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:01, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, I'll start there. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 00:25, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

@Ancheta Wis and Jonesey95: Lots of comment without mentioning the proper solution to the real problem. In this edit, Turgidson (talk · contribs) altered txt|last1=Borel to txt|first1=Armandlast1=Borel and failed to include a pipe between two parameters. This edit fixes it. Job done, unless I'm missing something? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:24, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Oops, sorry for the typo in that old edit, and thanks for fixing it. Good catch! Turgidson (talk) 20:55, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I saw that typo, hence my recommendation for a change to the template code above, which would have caught it. Use of the template is deprecated, though, so it may be more useful to focus on replacing, rather than fixing, instances of it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:29, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

@Ancheta Wis, Jonesey95, Turgidson, and Redrose64:On a page with {{harvs}}, how do I add a new cite by an author already cited? .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 00:45, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

The templates are a bit arcane, but {{sfn}} is probably the easiest way in. If you drop a note on my talk page with a link to the article, I'll be happy to help. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:02, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Userscript to create Navboxes

Is there any existing user script to help creating {{Navboxes}} to bundle the [selected] individual navboxes on an article? Thanks -- DaxServer (talk) 08:38, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Nothing matching navbox in Wikipedia:User scripts/List. Maybe add a request with some more detail at Wikipedia:User scripts/Requests? — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 10:36, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! — DaxServer (talk to me) 11:07, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

tagging IP editor

Hi. I'd like to leave an edit (which would include questions) for an editor with only an IP address on their talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:99.175.72.167&action=edit&redlink=1.

In the edit (which is some questions addressed to the editor), I tagged the editor, but when I checked the preview the tag was in red print. Does this mean they won't get a notification of my edit on their talk page?

The message concerns an edit someone with that IP address made on the Wikipedia article, "Soul patch." Is it true that whoever made the edit might not now be at that IP address?

If this is not the correct place to leave this query, please advise Greg Dahlen (talk) 15:15, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

@Greg Dahlen: According to Help:Notifications, "Notifications are only sent to registered users; notifying anonymous users (IPs) by mentioning their IP address is not possible." And yes, IP addresses change. Sometimes often, sometimes infrequently, so there is a good chance the person will not see it anyway. I suggest discussing it on the article talk page instead. RudolfRed (talk) 16:00, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

@Greg Dahlen: That particular IP last edited in 2015 and made only four edits, so I'd say that they are long gone by now. I find that some IP editors have quite active Talk pages and can readily be contacted, since if they have such a page they are almost certainly going to have it on their Watchlist and they will probably have static IP addresses (or they would realize they were hopping around and would likely create an account). Otherwise, as advised, you're stuck with the Talk Page of the article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 20:52, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

RudolfRed and Michael D. Turnbull, thank you, knowing what to do makes editing fun Greg Dahlen (talk) 13:45, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Pages having unicode private use area characters

Is there a way to get a list of pages in all namespace that contain any of the characters from the unicode private use area? There is Wikipedia:CHECKWIKI/016 dump which is only for mainspace. These characters are problematic because they do not display properly in all devices and AWB cannot process pages that have them. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 15:53, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, why can't AWB handle these pages? I can understand an app not knowing how to render the codepoint, but why should it do anything worse than just showing U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER? -- RoySmith (talk) 21:40, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Don't know why but it has been a long-standing AWB bug. However it can process pages when the hexadecimal character equivalent is present. For example, replacing  with  will make the page editable in AWB. A bot task was approved to replace some occurrences of this character - Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/WOSlinkerBot 11. It would be nice if there is a way to search for all other PUA characters so that a broader bot task can be done. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 05:15, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Menu size

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T289163

The menu button have been bigger for a while now. Is there any way to get the previous size back (the size of the "Move" button)?

 ― Qwerfjkltalk 16:58, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

All the links are coded to have the same font size. Was this screenshot by chance taken on a mobile device? I know that mobile browsers can sometimes change font sizes. If that's not it, perhaps you have some other script or personal CSS that is conflicting with MoreMenu. That would make sense because the "Move" link is a native link that MoreMenu moves from the "More" menu. — MusikAnimal ^talk 17:33, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

@MusikAnimal This was taken on a laptop (it's easier), but the same issue appears in my mobile device. ― Qwerfjkltalk 18:57, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

This is addressed by ticket phab:T289163. The function used by scripts to add menu items mw.util.addPortletLink does not insert the same HTML as Vector skin's native menu items do, causing them to not get the correct font size applied to them.– BrandonXLF (talk) 20:59, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

I think going back to Vector version 1 (aka "Use Legacy Vector" in the preferences) from "New Vector", which should have been given a version number to avoid the sort of naming confusion that is inherent here (cf the phab ticket, where it is called "modern Vector"), also works around the problem. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:33, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

@Jonesey95 Sadly, Legacy Vector displays terribly on my mobile device (the left sidebar takes up a lot of the screen). ― Qwerfjkltalk 07:03, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-34

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• The Score extension (<score> notation) has been re-enabled on public wikis and upgraded to a newer version. Some musical score functionality may no longer work because the extension is only enabled in "safe mode". The security issue has been fixed and an advisory published.

Problems

• You will be able to read but not edit some wikis for a few minutes on 25 August. This will happen around 06:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance. During this time, operations on the CentralAuth will also not be possible.

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 24 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 25 August. It will be on all wikis from 26 August (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

21:56, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Ubuntu version history

Ubuntu version history has sections:
=== Ubuntu 4.10 (Warty Warthog){{Anchor|0410}} ===
=== Ubuntu 5.04 (Hoary Hedgehog){{Anchor|0504}} ===
=== Ubuntu 5.10 (Breezy Badger){{Anchor|0510}} ===
=== Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Dapper Drake){{Anchor|0606}} ===
=== Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy Eft){{Anchor|0610}} ===
=== Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn){{Anchor|0704}} ===
=== Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon){{Anchor|0710}} ===
=== Ubuntu 8.04 LTS (Hardy Heron){{Anchor|0804}} ===
=== Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid Ibex){{Anchor|0810}} ===
=== Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope){{Anchor|0904}} ===
=== Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala){{Anchor|0910}} ===
=== Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid Lynx){{Anchor|1004}} ===
=== Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat){{Anchor|1010}} ===
=== Ubuntu 11.04 (Natty Narwhal){{Anchor|1104}} ===
=== Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot){{Anchor|1110}} ===
=== Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin){{Anchor|1204}} ===
=== Ubuntu 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal){{Anchor|1210}} ===
=== Ubuntu 13.04 (Raring Ringtail){{Anchor|1304}} ===
=== Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy Salamander){{Anchor|1310}} ===
=== Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr){{Anchor|1404}} ===
=== Ubuntu 14.10 (Utopic Unicorn){{Anchor|1410}} ===
=== Ubuntu 15.04 (Vivid Vervet){{Anchor|1504}} ===
=== Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf){{Anchor|1510}} ===
=== Ubuntu 16.04 LTS (Xenial Xerus){{Anchor|1604}} ===
=== Ubuntu 16.10 (Yakkety Yak){{Anchor|1610}} ===
=== Ubuntu 17.04 (Zesty Zapus){{Anchor|1704}} ===
=== Ubuntu 17.10 (Artful Aardvark){{Anchor|1710}} ===
=== Ubuntu 18.04 LTS (Bionic Beaver){{Anchor|1804}} ===
=== Ubuntu 18.10 (Cosmic Cuttlefish){{Anchor|1810}} ===
=== Ubuntu 19.04 (Disco Dingo){{Anchor|1904}} ===
=== Ubuntu 19.10 (Eoan Ermine){{Anchor|1910}} ===
=== Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa){{Anchor|2004}} ===
=== Ubuntu 20.10 (Groovy Gorilla){{Anchor|2010}} ===
=== Ubuntu 21.04 (Hirsute Hippo){{Anchor|2104}} ===
=== Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish Indri){{Anchor|2110}} ===
for example:

• Ubuntu 4.10 REDIRECTs to Ubuntu version history#0410
• Ubuntu Warty needs REDIRECT
• Ubuntu warty needs REDIRECT
• Ubuntu warthog needs REDIRECT
• Ubuntu Warthog needs REDIRECT
• et cetera, is there a way to do this? ... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 01:14, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

  @0mtwb9gd5wx: huh? Is there a way to create pages? Just do it? — xaosflux ^Talk 01:35, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: with software tools.... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 01:59, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

@0mtwb9gd5wx Awesome Aasim's user script redirectcreator might help. ― Qwerfjkltalk 06:59, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Read-only reminder

A maintenance operation will be performed on Wednesday August 25 06:00 UTC. It should only last for a few minutes.

Also during this time, operations on the CentralAuth will not be possible (GlobalRenames, changing/confirming e-mail addresses, logging into new wikis, password changes).

For more details about the operation and on all impacted services, please check on Phabricator.

A banner will be displayed 30 minutes before the operation.

Please help your community to be aware of this maintenance operation. Thank you!

Sent via mass-message by Quiddity (WMF) 20:33, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Dynamic maps broken for 2 weeks already (Template:Maplink + Module:Mapframe)

Many of the dynamic maps provided by Template:Maplink and Module:Mapframe have been broken for quite a few days now as pointed out here. Does anyone know (@Evad37:?) what is happening and if it is being worked on already?--Kozuch (talk) 21:14, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

@Thiemo Kreuz (WMDE), do you know what has happened recently there? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:22, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know enough to be helpful. While my team plans to work on Kartographer, this hasn't started yet. --Thiemo Kreuz (WMDE) 08:59, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Mention log

Hi. I've found the thanks log, is there a log for the same thing when someone mentions/pings you? Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 14:24, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

@Lugnuts: there is not a notifications log, however you can find your own notifications/mentions at Special:Notifications. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:27, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 14:29, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Be careful about trailing whitespace.

I occasionally see people's signatures set in code style. Special:Permalink/1040624528 is an example I just generated by accident. I think I know what's going on. Various tools that collect some text and automatically append a signature don't check to see if there's trailing whitespace in the edit box. If there is, it's invisible to the user, but generates leading space(s) before the ~~~~ is inserted, resulting in it being interpreted as code.

If you maintain any sort of tool which does this, I suggest you strip any trailing whitespace before appending the signature. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:42, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Disappearance of LH side bar

all the items on the left-hand side bar have just disappeared nysteriously a few minutes ago, all of a sudden. my script buttons have disappeared with them. -- Ohc ^{revolution of our times} 20:27, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

If "Use Legacy Vector" is disabled at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering then try to enable it. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:36, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, I have them back again. But I'm curious as to what action caused the sidebar items to disappear? -- Ohc ^{revolution of our times} 18:46, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

WP:ITSTHURSDAY and PROGRESS! — xaosflux ^Talk 18:59, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

WP:Idaho Project reborn...with new Talk page banner...Ideally (Rather large 7K talk page edit)

So, I have a pretty large talk page update to perform. The WikiProject Idaho template was rebuilt as a wrapper a couple years ago. A wrapper to the US Template. Being thorough, they also put into place an auto WP:SUBST that rebuilds the Idaho template into the US template with the ID flags. In trying to rebuild the project, I need to reverse that...Sort of... Finding the US Banner WITH the ID=yes flag and ADDING the new ID Template. (Currently in the template's sandbox).

• ) I didn't want to perform a change on some 7,000 pages without getting some kind of consensus with the US Project first. Debating pulling the ID flag off?
• ) Anyone have a favorite tool that would help me walk through an auto-edit of that many pages?
• ) Though I have worked with templates for quite a while, this would be the largest change that I have pulled off. Might be nice to have another template expert looking over my shoulder?

Just looking for a touch of help. Mjquinn_id (talk) 20:50, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

@Mjquinn id What is the utility of spliting out Idaho from the US banner? Doesn't it already categorize everything as desired. Also if someone wants to add the article to Category:Idaho articles needing attention it's likely they would just do it on the main United States banner meaning these categories may be missed. In general it feels more convenient to just have one banner. --Trialpears (talk) 21:55, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

It was to introduce Task Forces (People and Geography to start). Which we cannot under the US banner. See: Template:WikiProject_Idaho/sandbox. Mjquinn_id (talk) 22:06, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Alright, makes sense. I just feel that if we are to put significant effort into a project we should be sure there's an advantage. You can also use a petscan if you want a list of Idahoans like this. --Trialpears (talk) 22:13, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Is this a job for User:PearBOT? I'm really looking for a one-time mechanism... Mjquinn_id (talk) 22:51, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Well I could from a technical perspective. I'm just quite busy right now and dealing with WikiProject banners is far from the most fun thing on wiki in my opinion, especially if I need to do a BRFA. --Trialpears (talk) 15:39, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2021 August 25

I've been trying to work around where and how Cyberbot I broke the TOC for today's AfD log, but my usual method of eliminating the issue (fixing the small tags) doesn't seem to work on this round, and it may be possible some of the noms were transcluded the wrong way. Can someone help us out on fixing the logging? Thank you. Nate • (chatter) 22:32, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

I figured it out; three noms from one nominator from the 19ths were both incorrectly transcluded and placed on the 25th log, then marked with two heads rather than the proper three. All fixed now. Nate • (chatter) 22:52, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Strange redlink

User:John Quincy Adding Machine/Imagfriend displays a box generated by {{mfd|help=off}}, which includes a redlink that says "this page's entry" and links to the existing page Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:John Quincy Adding Machine/Imagfriend. Here is a hand-coded piped link: this page's entry. Here, it is a blue link. Why is it a redlink at User:John Quincy Adding Machine/Imagfriend? Note that in Special:ExpandTemplates:

• Context title, for {{FULLPAGENAME}}, etc.: User:John Quincy Adding Machine/Imagfriend
• Input wikitext: {{mfd|help=off}}

The output includes '''[[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:John Quincy Adding Machine/Imagfriend|this page's entry]]''', which displays as a blue link: this page's entry. What's going on here? —Anomalocaris (talk) 00:11, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

@Anomalocaris: it looks like a blue link there on my end - I'd suspect the page was cached (so purging would resolve the issue). Elli (talk | contribs) 00:20, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Elli: According to Help:Purge, purging rebuilds a page, so if you saw a blue link, the page should have already been rebuilt. But I reloaded the page several times in both Chrome and Firefox, and it stayed red in both browsers. Then I purged (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:John_Quincy_Adding_Machine/Imagfriend&action=purge) in Chrome and nothing happened. Then I purged in Firefox and that turned the link blue in Firefox. Then I purged again in Chrome and that turned the link blue in Chrome. Maybe my browsers sometimes use versions cached in my own computer even when I refresh the page. This is something I don't know much about. There's also the question of, when the page was last updated at 19:06, 25 August 2021, and I noticed and reported it more than 5 hours later, why Wikipedia hadn't already turned the link blue all by itself in all that time. —Anomalocaris (talk) 01:07, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

@Anomalocaris: probably just a weird caching edge case. I've seen similar things happen. And yes, refreshing will sometimes use a cached version your browser keeps - you need to force refresh (like ctrl+f5 instead of just f5) to avoid that. Elli (talk | contribs) 01:14, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

This is a known issue, and it occurs if the edit that adds the {{mfd}} to the user page is saved before the MfD nomination page is itself saved. This sequence is understandable, because it is advised at WP:MFDHOW. A subsequent WP:PURGE will rebuild the page on the Wikimedia servers, and so turn that redlink blue for other people; but it might not update any cached copy at the client's end, for which a WP:BYPASS may be necessary.

My own workaround is to follow WP:MFDHOW step I down to the last-but-one direction (Check the "Watch this page" box), then instead of saving the page, WP:PREVIEW it. Then in step II, instead of carrying out the direction "Click that link to open the page's deletion discussion page.", I would instead right-click that link. Then in the new tab, carry out the remainder of step II. Then return to the first tab, and complete step I by saving the page. Then proceed to step III. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:34, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Elli, there's a related problem. The page User:Maylimayli transcludes User:Hexagon1/Imagfriend, which redirects to User:John Quincy Adding Machine/Imagfriend (where we started), which brings in {{mfd|help=off}}. So the effect is a redlink in User:Maylimayli that says "this page's entry" and links to the non-existing page Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Maylimayli. It would seem that {{mfd}} needs a modification that somehow limits its pagename grab to the innermost transclusion. Is this possible? —Anomalocaris (talk) 08:43, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

The wrong template was used, also causing other problems. WP:MFDHOWTO says:

If the nomination is for a userbox or similarly transcluded page, use {{subst:mfd-inline}} so as to not mess up the formatting for the userbox.

I have fixed it. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:32, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Modify template

I want to add a parameter to the template: {{Infobox individual space vehicle}}. I also want to suppress the parameter's visibility when a value is not entered for it. I believe the code to make it invisible when it's not assigned a value looks like this: {{#if:{{{sample_text|}}}|{{{sample_text|}}} }}, but I haven't had success making it work. I was able to edit the template today, but was reverted, probably because of the unwanted visibility of the parameter in article(s) where a value for it had not yet been added. I made another effort at editing the template, but now find that any new parameter I add does not show up when I Preview, even after I scrutinize it for correct placement of braces, pipes, equal signs, underscores, capitalization, etc many times. I'm using a desktop version of Win10. I'm not new to Wikipedia, but am a template newbie. Appreciate any tips. Thanks. DonFB (talk) 03:01, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

@DonFB: You're missing a pipe from your data line, you currently have |data18 = {{{Distance_flown_or_driven_at_destination}}}, you should have |data18 = {{{Distance_flown_or_driven_at_destination|}}}. By default if a parameter is not set then the tripple curly braces and parameter name show up in the final output, adding the pipe results in the parameter returning nothing instead. 192.76.8.74 (talk) 11:24, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

@DonFB: In general, adding the pipe causes whatever is after the pipe to show up instead. Try to follow the style of other parameters. Your new parameter is the only one starting with a capital. Unlike page names, the first character of parameter names is case sensitive. The name Distance_flown_or_driven_at_destination is awfully long. Look for something shorter. The displayed text "Distance flown or driven at destination" is also awfully long and that's worse. It may split into four lines in a narrow infobox column. It looks bad to display alternatives like "flown or driven". If you want two possibilities then make two parameters. Finally, I'm not sure the whole parameter is a good infobox idea. It requires updating while the vehicle is operational, and then it may need an as of date. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:15, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for answers with advice and insight. I have added separate params for "flown" and "driven", and the template works, with no unwanted text in several articles I checked that use it. I remain mystified, however, why the new parameters are not visible on the rendered page of the template itself, either in Preview or Published. I would like to fix that. DonFB (talk) 06:23, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

@DonFB: You need to add your new parameters to the example template on the doccumentation subpage → Template:Infobox_individual_space_vehicle/doc 192.76.8.74 (talk) 12:11, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

I already did, but no effect on the rendered template page. There are actually five links that open the edit window for the Doc page and I used all of them ('edit this page' tabs on main and documentation pages; 'Usage' edit link on both pages; and edit link to the right of 'Template Documentation' on main template page). DonFB (talk) 12:39, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

@DonFB: Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant you need to add them to the "Parameter usage example" template at the top of the page, like this. 192.76.8.74 (talk) 12:46, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! Thought it was probably something simple, but I wonder if I ever would have discovered that.... DonFB (talk) 12:53, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Pblocking

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T202673

A fellow admin has recently discovered that blocking an editor for a period of time, then pblocking said editor from and article indefinitely has the effect of removing the original block.

IMvHO, this is a weakness in the blocking system. Is there any way that blocking and pblocking can be separated, so that one does not impinge on the other? Mjroots (talk) 10:29, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

For the "technical" parts of this, see phab:T202673 and phab:T194697. — xaosflux ^Talk 12:38, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

@Mjroots: wait, you want an account to have a site block, and also a partial block at the same time? Why would this be needed? — xaosflux ^Talk 12:34, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

This is more of an English Wikipedia workflow question - keeping in mind that our blocks are meant to be preventative, not punitive. — xaosflux ^Talk 12:40, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: - the situation in question is that an editor has been issued with a three day block, and it is desired that they are permanently pblocked from editing a certain article. At the moment, an admin has to wait for the 3-day block to expire, then go back and add an indefinite pblock. Should said editor be temporarily blocked again in future, the pblock expires the second the new block is applied. This is why it is desirable to separate the two. Mjroots (talk) 12:57, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

@Mjroots: the general local argument here is: if the blocked editor is only causing trouble at one page that can be solved with a pblock then why would they need to "serve out" the 3 day siteblock? -- making the siteblock no longer necessary. There certainly can be some niche cases such as mandated arbcom remedy blocks, but these should be the exception. In any case, the blocking system doesn't currently allow for multiple blocks of any type right now, and the linked tasks above track the possible development of such capabilities that could have use in any mediawiki instance. — xaosflux ^Talk 13:03, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: for info - WP:AN/I#Disruption at RPSI, Part 2. Mjroots (talk) 13:31, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

• This is vaguely similar to page protections not being stackable. It would be nice to be able, for example, to semi-protect a page indefinitely, and also have full protection for a week. When the full protection expired, it would revert back to semi. But it doesn't work that way.

My first thought on reading this was it might set a trap for admins allowing them to accidentally undo a checkuser block without realizing it. Experimenting, however, it looks like when you set the pblock, you get the full block log shown to you, which means you would see the existing cu-block. So I think we're good there. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Feedback on improved template search needed

Hello! The Technical Wishes team kindly asks for your feedback on a specific part of an improvement regarding templates. Please take a minute to let us know what you think:

We are currently working on improving the search in the “add a template” dialog to make finding relevant templates easier. When using the template search, you have to know the exact title of the template you want to add. The planned improvement will allow you to search for keywords within the whole template name and template documentation pages. This change is already deployed on a few wikis, and our plan is to deploy it on all other wikis by the end of 2021.

The question: The improved template search currently also returns subpages of templates (that include the keyword) in the results, but we have received individual feedback that this is not wanted. Before we change this behavior, we want to ask a broader audience: Can and should subpages of templates be ignored in this search? Or are there cases in which a subpage of a template may host a template, and is therefore a relevant result?

In cases where template subpages are relevant to the search, examples are very much appreciated. More information about the feature can be found on this page. You can leave comments and share your thoughts until September 8th on this talk page. Thanks for your help! For the Technical Wishes team, -- Timur Vorkul (WMDE) (talk) 14:22, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

@Timur Vorkul (WMDE): I don't suppose it could just depend on whether the subpage-template has elsewhere been directly transcluded outside the parent template? --Yair rand (talk) 17:49, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Cannot Special:EditWatchlist

Special:EditWatchlist no longer works for me. I get a result such as

Server timed out

The maximum request time of 60 seconds was exceeded.

[074bbe7e-f867-4ada-8295-29331efb79bc] 2021-08-27 08:47:58: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\RequestTimeout\RequestTimeoutException"

What options do I have to download and edit my watchlist? --SmokeyJoe (talk) 08:55, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Can you use Special:EditWatchlist/raw? —Kusma (talk) 09:10, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes! 1 second. SmokeyJoe (talk) 09:59, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

@SmokeyJoe: Or raw safemode? — xaosflux ^Talk 09:48, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes! 3 seconds. SmokeyJoe (talk) 09:59, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you both. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:01, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

@SmokeyJoe: This can happen if your watchlist has a large number of entries. I think that 20,000 is a ballpark figure for "large number". --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:39, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Over 18 000. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Please post in this section

Hello, all. I'd like some folks to test this upcoming feature for me. Here's how it works:

1. Click on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)?dtenable=1
2. Scroll all the way down to this section and find the [subscribe] button for ==this section==.
3. Click that.
4. Post a comment here.
5. Wait for another editor to do the same.
6. Tell me what you think.

You should get a note via Special:Notifications (Echo) about the new comment. You shouldn't get notified if someone is just fixing a typo (same rules as trying to ping someone; notifications require a new comment/line).

I understand that on the technical side, you're actually subscribing to the timestamp of the first comment, not the section itself. Consequently, changing the section heading, moving this message to another page, etc., will not prevent you from getting notified about new comments. It doesn't matter what editing tools the other comments are posted with.

BTW, that link will give you the [reply] tool as well; if you like it, then turn it on in Beta Features. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:35, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

OK, leaving a comment to test. Elli (talk | contribs) 19:36, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for testing. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:41, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh, that's pretty cool! Curious about how the timestamp thing works though - it's not uncommon for comments to share the same timestamp. Elli (talk | contribs) 19:42, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

There are some technical details in mw:Extension:DiscussionTools/How it works.

Maybe it includes the whole signature? But even then, someone could (with full-page editing) start several separate ==Sections== in the same edit, resulting in multiple identical signatures. Or we could copy it somewhere and have two copies of the same discussion. I'm not sure if it would track both, or neither, or pick one. @Matma Rex, do you have a prediction, or should we try to break it ourselves? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:59, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Subscribed and posting to test. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:39, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

No discernible alert - is there a delay? TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:41, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

No one had replied yet... now you should get a notification? Elli (talk | contribs) 21:42, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

and another persion replied —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 21:48, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Cool - I got the notifications. I thought it would alert me when any comments were added to the subscribed thread, mine or otherwise. The only thing I would have to think about is if it will overmessage people. Is there an easy way to unsubscribe if the discussion gets too busy? TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:50, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, the unsubscribe button is right there, too, from the same link. I'd assume if the feature was turned on generally, it would always be there. Elli (talk | contribs) 21:52, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Ah yes - you have to click the original link to see it - gotcha. Cool. This could be interesting, particularly when new users don't know to tag people. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Oooh, cool, you can subscribe to sections now? I did wonder what would happen or how they'd be distinguished if the same person posted multiple sections at once. And would you be auto-subscribed to any sections you create? Opabinia regalis (talk) 07:17, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Somebody please reply to this :-) -- RoySmith (talk) 14:07, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Never mind, I'll get one of my socks to do it. RoySmith-testing (talk) 14:13, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Response for Roy. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:22, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

I am not a sock! It's that stupid testing guy. He's always stalking me and calling me a sock. He should be blocked. I'm only here to improve wikipedia. RoySmith-Mobile (talk) 14:24, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Wow, this is major-league cool. Being able to subscribe to a thread has long been at or near the top of my wiki-wishlist. Very nice.

Somewhat orthogonal to this, it would be nice if there were a published spec for how to add buttons to a section. The "Close" link in the attached screenshot is from User:DannyS712/DiscussionCloser.js (ping DannyS712). I assume with some CSS tweaks, the visual style of both links could be harmonized, and a published standard would make that happen. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:33, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Coolest aspect is that it lets me subscribe to a section without adding the page to my watchlist. Schazjmd (talk) 14:36, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Cool, it worked! Does this work on mobile too? Opabinia externa (talk) 17:33, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Hey, sock, back in the drawer! Opabinia regalis (talk) 17:35, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

I'm a dummy, I forgot to click subscribe first. Opabinia externa (talk) 17:43, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

How can I find list of files I uploaded including derivatives?

Most of the files I uploaded under Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria technically were deleted with lower resolution versions uploaded by a bot, so when I look for images I uploaded I cannot find them easily in Special:ListFiles/Shushugah. For example I uploaded File:Deutsche Wohnen & Co Enteignen campaign logo.jpg which was replaced by a bot, but I cannot easily find that in a gallery view anywhere without knowing the bot name, and those include millions of images. Shushugah (he/him • talk) 18:31, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

That's strange. I assumed that all you would need to do is tick the box for "Include old versions of files" on the Special:ListFiles/Shushugah page but that doesn't work! The upload is there in your "contributions" log for August 2021, so I'm puzzled.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 19:14, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull I moved it here. Perhaps old version refers to old versions by the same author, e.g after cropping an image? Shushugah (he/him • talk) 20:01, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

It might also be because the version you uploaded was revdelled per WP:CSD#F5 after getting resized. In addition to your contribs, which Mike pointed out, you can also still find them through Special:Log/upload/Shushugah. – Rummskartoffel 21:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

I can see all of the file links, but not visually which is what I want. I have to manually open each file separately. Shushugah (he/him • talk) 22:10, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

I only just noticed you'd already said most of that before my comment and I just somehow managed to miss it, making my comment rather pointless – sorry for that. I don't know of any good way to get what you want, but I can throw together a quick and dirty user script that displays images on Special:Log if you're interested. It's not going to look pretty, though. – Rummskartoffel 11:53, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

An enhanced diff broke for me

Many years ago, I enabled a different version of diff on Wikipedia. This gave me a little triangular icon above a normal diff, and if I clicked that I got an additional diff displayed which made some changes easier to spot, particularly those involving whitespace. A few days ago, this little icon disappeared, so I can no longer use the other version of diff. I don't remember how I enabled this in the first place; it may be the line "span.diffchange { text-decoration: underline; }" in my standard.css file. Is there any way to get this enabled again?

About the same time, I also noticed that when viewing a diff I could no longer click on links to articles. I can live without this but it might be a symptom with the same cause.

I have the wikEdDiff turned on in Preferences/Gadgets, although nothing appears to change if I turn that off. I don't use the visual editor.-gadfium 03:29, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

I assume you have scripting enabled and that WP:WIKEDDIFF fails to work (the triangle symbol does not appear). I have no idea but there is a newish "Browse history interactively" which might be a factor. Johnuniq (talk) 03:51, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, that's helpful. So the triangle is WikEdDiff. I presume then that my scripting is broken or turned off. I do have Javascript enabled, so presumably this is some other setting, but I don't see it in Preferences. If I enable wikEd then the visual editor seems to work, and the diff is the WikEdDiff, but I prefer to edit the classic Wiki source.-gadfium 04:15, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

A workaround is to turn on wikEd (and turn off wikEdDiff since it's enabled with wikEd) and then use the wikEd control panel to turn off visual editing. This still gives me the wikEdDiff view (but no longer the standard diff, which I suspect I don't really need). I'd still like to get my old functionality back though.-gadfium 04:20, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Better workaround: I've installed wikEdDiff in my common.js file, and turned off wikEd in gadgets. Ultimately, the problem therefore seems to be that the manual installation works for me but the gadget doesn't. I'm still curious about why this should be. I'm on Firefox on Windows 10, and I run several security addons including uBlock Origin and Ghostery, but nothing should be blocking anything on Wikipedia and my setup hasn't changed recently.-gadfium 04:27, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

I tried it: disable wikEd in gadgets, add to common.js (with proper reload) - not seeing the triangle. -- GreenC 15:49, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

This works in common.js: importScript('User:GreenC/wikEdDiff2.js'); .. it's a fork that implements the changes recommended at User_talk:Cacycle#wikEdDiff. -- GreenC 16:06, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

I've got the same problem - the wikEdDif button is not visible. (I'm not sure how long it's been missing. I suspect no more than a day or two - I use it relatively often.) I have it enabled in my preferences, and (to my knowledge) I haven't changed anything recently. I'm using Pale Moon (web browser) on Windows 7. Mitch Ames (talk) 06:38, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

• Note, wikEdDiff is managed my a single user, User:Cacycle - who may want to look in to this. — xaosflux ^Talk 07:30, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
  • I've notified Cacycle, but they are all but no longer editing here - we may need to disable this gadget or convert it to a community-managed script if there is enough desire to update it and maintain it going forward. — xaosflux ^Talk 07:33, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

The post above yours at User talk:Cacycle#wikEdDiff looks relevant.-gadfium 08:43, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Infobox combination

Does anyone know if it is possible to combine the two infoboxes on Hildegard of Bingen's article? Ideally the philosophical information on the work she did would be before all of the random dates of canonization and such. Aza24 (talk) 03:39, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

{{infobox saint}} doesn't support being embedded, but {{infobox philosopher}} does, so I combined them that way. It's not the order you wanted, but I think it is an improvement. MB 04:02, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

The annoying to hear!—But thank you regardless, I definitely agree that's an improvement. Aza24 (talk) 05:06, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Data/Graphics from citations and more...

Hey there! I'm an admin at SqWiki. I mostly look out for the technical side of the citations there. We have, for quite some time now, implemented this graphic which tells us in what language are most of our citations coming from. This can be interesting for quite some reasons which I can discuss further below if you want, not wanting to make the text longer now. For the moment I wanted to ask how you feel about this kind of "infrastructure"? Would it be a good idea if we could have more graphics similar to this implemented on EnWiki, tracking data from citations (or other areas)? Or do you think the categories are enough on its own? For example, again in relation to citations, we also have these:sq:Kategoria:Mirëmbajtja CS1, sq:Kategoria:Gabime CS1, sq:Stampa:Grafiku i faqeve me adresa që përdorin stampën e arkivës së rrjetit and sq:Kategoria:Faqe me adresa që përdorin stampën e arkivës së rrjetit që kërkojnë vëmendje, the benefits of which I can also discuss further below if you want. My question is not related to citations per se but to graphical data tracking in general. Tell me your thoughts on the subject and maybe even show me some kind of implementations you might already have here in regard to that. :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 08:50, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Nice. I like the graphics at the top of the tracking category page. Quickly shows where problems are. Check out {{NUMBEROF}}. It's not a graphics, but does track statistics across multiple wiki sites using Commons Tabular and a Lua template. It could be useful for tracking citation usage data across multiple sites, which could then be fed into a template that produces a graphic, that would work universal on any site with the same Lua code. It would require a language translation table that users can customize. -- GreenC 15:23, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Citation bot

Hi Technical Village Pump responser, I am try to run the citation bot but it cannot happen. When I entered the article name after that I clicked to the process page button and processing is happen but result cannot show. Why this happen? Please help me. Thank you ! Fade258 (talk) 14:49, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Try User talk:Citation bot. Remember to explain your problem clearly, including what article gives you an issue. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:26, 28 August 2021 (UTC)