Wikipedia:Requests for comment/May 2010 skin change/VPT

Moved from WP:VPT

Redrose64's gripe list

The change to Vector from Monobook has produced the following usability issues for me, in no particular order:

• some (not all) monospace text shows smaller. For example, these four template demonstrations all show in a monospace font, and under Monobook, all showed the same size as each other: {{tlx}} {{subst:tlsx}} {{template:tlu}} {{subst:template:tlsu}} (the size that {{tlx}} shows here). Under Vector, they clearly don't.
  • Both show the same for me on Vector and Monobook using Safari 4. The tt, code and pre elements are explicitly enlarged from the normal monospace fontsize to somehing bigger, by local CSS in both skins. —TheDJ (talk • contribs)
    • I've now tried other browsers. Google Chrome gives similar results to Firefox 3.6.2 (tlx/tlu normal, tlsx/tlsu small). The curious thing is that Internet Explorer 7 shows tlx/tlu small, and tlsx/tlsu normal. Viewing the page sources shows the three to render the page from the same HTML, so clearly they're interpreting it differently. Closer inspection shows that tlx/tlu are formatted using <tt></tt> whereas tlsx/tlsu use <span style="font-family:monospace;"></span>. Time to take that to the template talk pages, I guess  bug in template --Redrose64 (talk) 16:21, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
• If I decide to abandon an edit I could previously click the back button, or go for alt-left. Now, it asks me 'Are you sure you want to navigate away from this page? Leaving this page may cause you to lose any changes you have made. If you are logged in, you can disable this warning in the "Editing" section of your preferences. Press OK to continue, or Cancel to stay on the current page.' and I have to click "OK" (or press Return). It's annoying as it stands, but if I am several previews deep, I can't just go back, back, back etc. as I could before - it needs to be back, OK, back, OK, etc.
  • You can disable this dialog in your preferences. —TheDJ (talk • contribs)
    • Well the OP themselves mentioned this is specifically noted in the warning so I'm not really sure what the proposal is here. Other then using the skin I have limited or well no involvement with the usability iniatative but as I remarked below I'm not surprised by the warning and think it makes sense so I doubt it's going to go away. Logged in users who don't want it should just turn it off as the warning itself suggests Nil Einne (talk) 00:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
      •  Done --Redrose64 (talk) 08:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
• In the same way, if I'm in preview mode, and decide to try out a bluelink to ensure it goes where it should, I get the same silly message. Didn't get that before, under either situation.
  • Same answer —TheDJ (talk • contribs)
    •  Done --Redrose64 (talk) 08:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
• There is too much horizontal distance between the tabs at the top. Too much mouse movement when going between "history", "discussion" and "edit".
  • There are gadgets that can fix this, but i don't know their name atm. Someone please look them up ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs)
• The "Watch" star now needs me to look directly at it to decide if it's blue or white. Previously I could just catch it out near the edge of my vision and the difference between "watch" and "unwatch" was large enough to not require a direct check. I've even found myself mousing over it to see what the tooltip says.
  • I think you just need to get used to it. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
• The difference in colour between unvisited links (previously blue, now bluish-indigo) and visited links (previously purple, now purplish-indigo) is now too small to be clear; and both have become so dark that it's difficult to pick them out from the black.
• {{reflist}} has gone to 100% font size from the previous size (80% I think). This has made reflists about 25% larger
  • Both skins use 90% for Reflist. Depending on your browser however, a fontsize can be 1px larger or smaller in the new skin however. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
    • If both skins are 90% for Reflist, then why is it that in the old skin references were noticeably smaller than normal text, but in the new skin references are the same size as normal text? —Lowellian (reply) 22:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
      • I have loaded the same test page in monobook and in vector and the font sizes for reflist are noticeably different. Apart from the first, which uses a bare <references />, the style is applied using <div class="references-small"></div>, which is what you get when using {{reflist}} without parameters. I have examined the common.css which shows that in both skins "references-small" is achieved using the style "font-size: 90%;", so something else is overriding this for Vector. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
      • The base fontsize has changed (not visibly, but still in actual value). Where the difference between 90% and 100% was 2pt in fontsizes, in vector it is now just 1pt. Fonts get rounded to px sizes and this is causing the effect of what you see. The Reflist has however still 90% set. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:53, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Doubtless I'll be back with more later today. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:17, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I answered some of your questions, hope it helps ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Not yet; have commented on some. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

• in the search box: the autocomplete second-guess feature (generating the scrolly list) is much slower; the individual suggestions in the list are shorter than previously; they show head and tail of article name instead of just the head.
• diffs show in smaller font, much more difficult to read. Less serious is that the text is now vertically centred in each row, so if a line is significantly extended you look right-and-up instead of just right.

Well, It got 24 hours, but I'm not happy. Monobook, I'm on my way back to you... --Redrose64 (talk) 13:37, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Popups seems to be broken

And I suspect it might be related to changes that have been made independently of the switchover to vector: See Wikipedia_talk:Tools/Navigation_popups#Vector_skin_incompatibilities —Soap— 14:23, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

It works for me on Vector and has so for the last few months. Please make an accurate bugreport, detailing browser you use etc. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:54, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, I posted on the thread I linked to. I don't think it's browser-related, since I tested out two browsers, and also it seems rather intermittent (sometimes it works, sometimes not). The problem that Xeno's having is worse than mine, though. —Soap— 15:39, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Is it working for you on Special:Contributions? –xeno^talk 14:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Yup. Though note that contributions pages etc contain a LOT of links. It may take longer than you expect for popups to finish loading on those pages. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:04, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Not even working on [1] (still on monobook, mind you). Not to mention this was never an issue before. –xeno^talk 15:07, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Most browsers have error windows, those might be handy to consult. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:18, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

"popups is not defined" showed up in the error console at one point, but I've since cleared the error console, tried loading speical:contributions again and now the error console remains blank. –xeno^talk 15:22, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Xeno, that's caused by your use of my tophide script, which was working with popups until the change, so not sure what changed... Anyway, I'll look at it later, you may want to disable it until then (or not, if you prefer it to popups on Cont pages :P). Ale_Jrb^talk 15:59, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

D'oh. On that note, I was thinking the other day: there should be some kind of "hook" for popups that will get it to continue to work after such scripts do their magic. –xeno^talk 16:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Yep, the new style busted popups real good. However, potential work-arounds are being discussed at Wikipedia talk:Tools/Navigation popups#Support for the new WP layout?. Dl2000 (talk) 22:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Open tab in new tab

I can't seem to rightclick and open the new Vector tabs in new IE tabs/windows anymore. When I'm looking at the article, I tried to right-click on "Discussion" so that I could open that in a new tab and see both article and talk page. The little popup menu doesn't give me that option, just "Save as background", etc. It works if you right-click the links at the top (My watchlist, etc). Is this a new "feature" of Vector, or is there a way I can fix this? Karanacs (talk) 14:49, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

This is bugzilla:23490. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Were none of the beta testers using IE? –xeno^talk 15:09, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

It was heavily tested, because it was the most difficult browser to support. However I guess no one ever tried this specific action. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:20, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

The tab option works in Firefox 3.6.3 with Windows 7. Xtzou (Talk) 22:46, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Workaround for IE: Middle-click will open these in a new tab, even though the normal right-click options for links are not available. ~ Ningauble (talk) 00:20, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Admin options

I can live with most of the changes, but I really despite having all of the admin options crammed into a drop down menu on the far right, rather than strung across the top of the page as they were previously. Is there a way to reverse this? The new drop down menu is also forcing scripts like User:Animum/EasyBlock into hiding. --auburnpilot talk 17:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Click the handy "take me back" button and go back to the way it was before! –xeno^talk 17:56, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

That, or importScript("User:Amalthea/VectorMenuToTabs.js"); Amalthea 19:29, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Just what I needed. Thanks, --auburnpilot talk 19:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Is there any way to do this without JavaScript, just using CSS? It seems like it should be possible to do so. —Lowellian (reply) 23:00, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Probably—you'd simply have to set the styles for the vectorMenu class to be the same as those for the vectorTabs class, I suppose. It's simpler to do it in JavaScript, though, because in JavaScript you can do it in as little as* one line: document.getElementById("p-cactions").className = "vectorTabs"; … (*Some extra code might be needed for some edge cases) while in CSS you'd have to add much more code.

I'm using another option: my nothingthree.js script does some intelligent tab-moving, so e.g. if there's a deletion template on the page, the "delete" tab automatically moves into the tabs from the menu. The unprotect tab moves out if the page is protected (and gets the protection status appended to the tooltip text). It works pretty well, so far, but I'm a relative newbie to JavaScript, and I don't know how it'll fare in Internet Explorer (I don't have access to IE). Try it, and give me feedback :) {{Nihiltres|talk|edits|⚡}} 17:11, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Google toolbar spell check not working

Has anyone else seen this behaviour with Vector? When editing an article, pressing Google Toolbar "Check" the text box changes to a light blue background as usual, but all of the text appears to be squashed into a line a few pixels high at the top of the edit box. Clicking still gives the menu to exit, so the spell seems to have loaded correctly. Using IE on XP. welsh (talk) 19:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I fixed it by unchecking "Enable enhanced editing toolbar" in Preferences->Editing. welsh (talk) 21:18, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Logged as bugzilla:23518, but might just be an issue that Google has to fix, the developers will have to see what can be done.. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 22:32, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Main Page search

When you load the Main Page, the search box is automatically selected. However, the "Search" background is still present, and typing a search term types over it, making it unreadable. The workaround is to click out of the box and back in before searching, but this is counter productive and creates the problem it's trying to address: preventing a user from needing to click in the search box to search for an article. While most people can figure out the workaround, people who aren't so computer-literate may just avoid Wikipedia because they don't know what the problem is. Also, since the Main Page is the first page for most people, it seems that keeping the "Search" text in the box until they type in it would be a good idea, so that everyone knows it's the search box. Even if the glitch is fixed by removing the background when they box is automatically selected on pageload, there is still the problem of keeping the "Search" text in the box until the user types in it. That, or do you think by having the box selected everyone will be able to figure out that it's the search box? Either way, it's a minor glitch, but should still be addressed.  Shardsofmetal  22:00, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a gadget enabled to force searchfield focus on the mainpage perhaps ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 22:24, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I cant seem to replicate that problem. Is it possible youre blocking Javascript somewhere? I believe that it takes Javascript to get dynamic text effects like that. I also dont have the search box automatically selected when I load the page. —Soap— 00:27, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Take me back came back

So I clicked "Take me back", left my feedback and went back to the old ways. Yet the "take me back" link has decided to pop up again. Does this mean new features are being re-enabled behind my back, or have the "usability" team completely failed at coding something correctly yet again? OrangeDog (τ • ε) 23:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Search, not "Go"

I miss the "Search" button, than brings up search results, even if there is a page with that exact title. --Apoc2400 (talk) 08:18, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

By fiddling about, I have found that the magnifying glass icon to the right of the search box does that. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:54, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Not for me, it doesn't. I think you have to click on the "containing..." link at the bottom of the suggestions list that is generated as you type.--Kotniski (talk) 09:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh sorry, perhaps I misunderstood - if you click the magnifying glass without typing anything in the box, that takes you to a search page which behaves as a search.--Kotniski (talk) 10:15, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree, there are times when I know there is an article by a given name, but I want to search for the phrase instead of going to that exact article. I do this, for instance, if I've created a new article and am then looking for where I should create wikilinks to it. LadyofShalott 00:40, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

When the bugs are all fixed . . .

could someone make an announcement? I have no idea what coding in the many preceding sections that represents "work arounds" means or how or where it is used. While there are obviously many experienced programmers on WP, there are also a lot of the rest of us who only know that things aren't working anymore and lack the skills to make individual fixes. (The worst, for me, is that no matter what size of type I project on the article pages, the font size in the editing screen is teeny tiny and I, for one, can't read it. IE7) I have wasted hours trying to get things to work, resizing pages, losing searches and desperately seeking some plain-language solutions, all to no avail. You shouldn't have dumped this on the unsuspecting minor hordes until it worked. Isn't that what beta versions are all about? What was the rush? This is making Microsoft look professional. I've gone back to the old version. Let me know when it's safe to check again. Thanks Bielle (talk) 03:25, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Even if people don't know how to fix a problem themselves, its important that they report things that are noticeably broken. It isn't safe to assume that the people who know how to fix things also know everything that's broken. As for beta versions, there was one, that's what the "try beta" thing was that was available since (I think) last August. Mr.Z-man 03:59, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I did try the beta version. That's how I knew to reference it. I can't see any improvements. I gave up on that after a day, too. Many of the things that are being reported here as broken seems to be really basic parts of the site. Didn't anyone click onto the edit screen in IE? How could someone not notice that the font scaling on page presentations is either about 8 pt or 18 point? (It's not as if IE7 or 8 were little used systems.) There is no middle range that also wraps the text. I always thought that the "Discussion" tab was confusing to newbies when all the commentary refers to "talk pages", but that's a walk compared with a star. Imagine being on a public computer and suddenly discovering that the "log out" button can't be found. Who would think to resize the page to find it? I know we are all volunteers, and I do not doubt everyone involved gave it their best shot in the time available but what appears obvious was that not enough time was taken. I ask again: what is the rush? Get it right, then roll it out. Bielle (talk) 04:19, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the point is that it should have been kept in beta until more kinks were worked out. LadyofShalott 04:21, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Spacing in edit window

Was the spacing of text in the edit window changed from single-spaced text to (approximately) 1.25-spaced text as part of the new interface or is this a bug? Thanks, -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 03:28, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

That was intentional in the beta versions of the skin, so I assume it's intentional now. (I actually rather like it, apart from the occasionally-malfunctioning text selection?—which leaves superfluous highlights in the inter-line spaces—in Chrome. I don't exactly know how to replicate this, though.) TheFeds 05:50, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Is there any way to undo this one? I ran back to monobook after a while, but I can't get the edit window to be compact again.—Kww(talk) 06:11, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Are you still using the new edit toolbar? I believe that is what sets the 1.5 line spacing (yes, it took a while to get used to it). If you want to keep the new toolbar but get back the original line spacing, add #wpTextbox1 { line-height: normal !important; } to Special:MyPage/skin.css. PleaseStand ^(talk) 14:34, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I likt it as well. Makes it a lot more legible. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:37, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Proposal: Vector issues board

Right now, all of the issues that users are having with the change are scattered around this page (often with rather non-descriptive section names) and other pages, or worse, just not reported because people assume its already been reported or they don't know where to go. It might be useful to create a centralized place for problem reports so that we can at least keep track of what's definitely been fixed, what might be fixed, and what's still broken. It might also be a good idea to link it from the watchlist notice so people know to make reports. If people think this is a good idea, I'll set it up. Mr.Z-man 04:07, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. Tisane (talk) 04:09, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

That would be fantastic. It would certainly help ease the mess and makes things a bit smoother. Linking to this new page from commonly-visited pages related to Vector would also be needed to direct users there, such as adding a link to Special:UsabilityInitiativePrefSwitch. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 04:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Do it. I like the name of "Vector feedback" though, as it allows for suggestions for the new skin as well as problem reports; if that behavior is not desirable, then we should also include a link on this new page to where it would be desirable. --Izno (talk) 04:15, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I think that opinionated feedback/suggestions should be separated from reports on issues with the layout; it would be a mess to have people arguing over the new look while other users are trying to bring attention to an actual problem. That's my view, at least. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 04:19, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

That was the view I thought of as well; it's a problem that happens frequently enough on this particular board, imo. --Izno (talk) 04:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

The "official" feedback page is usability:Talk:What's_new,_questions_and_answers --Cybercobra (talk) 05:03, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm quite tempted to create a new page on the usability wiki, e.g. usability:Issues from the English Wikipedia rollout. We ought to have discussion on the talk page, and then identify and summarize the details of each issue on the topic page. That would be helpful. {{Nihiltres|talk|edits|⚡}} 05:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Right click on tabs in New features messed up

With the new features (and using IE8) we can't right click the tabs on top of the page anymore to open the page in a new browser tab or page. The two most essential right click menu items are missing. Can/will this be taken care of? DVdm (talk) 09:25, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I noticed that too. Big annoyance when you are in the middle of a discussion page edit and want to open the article page in a new IE tab (or vice versa). Similar problem with "View history" tab - when in the middle of editing an article I quite often want to use right click menu to open the history page in a new IE tab, and now with Vector that isn't possible. I tried Vector for a couple of days but I have gone back to Monobook, and this is the main reason why. Gandalf61 (talk) 10:22, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Exactly the same (and only) reason here, but I gave it a mere couple of seconds. DVdm (talk) 10:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Middle-clicking them should open the page in a new tab. Although I must say this is not an acceptable long-term solution. --.:Alex:. 11:21, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Laptop on lap with no mouse so no middle button (and although I expect there is some Vulcan salute key combo that is equivalent to middle-click, I don't really want to know - reverting to Monobook is easier). Gandalf61 (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

That'd be Ctrl-LeftClick. Live long and prosper. — Richardguk (talk) 13:59, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, likewise use Shift-LeftClick to open a new window. Handy for the laptop user, but requires both hands when working with a (two button/no wheel) mouse. DVdm (talk) 14:32, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Logo discussion

As Commons is the central staging area for the Wikipedia logo, and in order that other language Wikipedias are involved, I'm hoping people will bring continuing discussion to this talk page on Commons. I also want to let you guys know that everything is being heard, and there is some enlightenment among the staff that there are problems with the new logo that need to be addressed. Thanks for your participation. Bastique ^{☎ call me!} 19:59, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Good idea, maybe you could list it up in "Centralized discussions"? thanks, --Funandtrvl (talk) 20:46, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

How to turn off the "improvements"

If you find your ability to edit Wikipedia paralyzed by the "improvements", as I did, here's how you can turn them off. It says:

Notice something different? We've made a few improvements to Wikipedia. Learn more!

Click on "learn more". Then scroll all the way to the bottom. You'll find something to click on that will cause you to see pages the way they appeared before the alleged improvements. Michael Hardy (talk) 20:39, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

There's also the "Take me back" link that's right beside the "New features" link at the very top of every single page (if you're logged in). EVula // talk // ☯ // 14:50, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

How do you log out???

Before the new skin existed, when I wanted to log out, I clicked on "log out". With the new skin, there is no evident way to log out. I can log out of my account on the machine I'm logged in to, or I can turn off the new skin (I accidentally found out how to do that).

Doubtless there's some secret drop-down menu somewhere for this purpose. Maybe I'll accidentally discover it at some point. Michael Hardy (talk) 20:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

....OK, I accidentally found it. If I alter my window geometry, it appears. And alter it again and it disappears. Michael Hardy (talk) 20:54, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Hotel California springs to mind. DuncanHill (talk) 21:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Or Hotel Wikipedia, as the case may be. Tisane (talk) 21:33, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I once stayed in a Hotel Califonia, they played that song constantly, was quite worried they were trying to tell us we couldn't leave--Jac16888^Talk 22:26, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm confused; for me, the "log out" link is in the exact same place as it was before. EVula // talk // ☯ // 22:23, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Why do you have to log in to turn off "usability improvements"?

Is there a technical reason as to why users have to be logged in in in order to access the old usable interface? Or is forcing people to have an account in order to have a usable interface part of the "improvements" and the sardonic humor that has evidently permeated the corporate Wikimedia Foundation?Smallman12q (talk) 22:12, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

If you don't log in, your account can't be set to use a different skin. This is not old; the only thing that's changed is that the default skin isn't okay with some people now. EVula // talk // ☯ // 22:20, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Still, there should be something like the "View this page on regular Wikipedia" on the mobile version, considering how the new skin sucks in comparison to the old one. -- Karunyan, 20:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

New search field cutting off my typing

In the new search field, when I type, it often stops me from typing the last few characters. Just now I typed "smell" in the search field, and the last "l" didn't come through. I think it's because of the auto-suggestion box that pops up beneath it. My "enter" key came through fine, and then it told me it couldn't find the smel article, and would I like to look for smell instead? This has occurred 3 times that I have noticed. I don't remember this occurring in the old skin (which I use by default because I dislike the new skin aesthetically). Windows XP updated to the latest with Windows Update; Firefox 3.6.3. Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:09, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Search_clips_off_last_few_letters_in_Vector (i.e. look up) --Cybercobra (talk) 00:20, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Help with font resizing

I'm comfortable with the new skin except for one fact - the fonts are a bit to small for me. How do you re-size it (using a personalized CSS script)? -it's war time @ 01:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

The new search box cuts off characters

Hi! There is an issue with the search box of the new user interface. Previously you could jump to an article by entering the name in the search box and pressing "enter". However, if you do this in the new search box and type quickly, characters will get cut off from the end of the article name.

For example, type "umbrella" fairly quickly into the new search box and immediately press enter. Instead of being taken to the article "Umbrella", you will be taken to "UMB", "Umbre" or similar. If it's of any importance I'm using Firefox 3.6.3 on Windows XP. 90.149.37.62 (talk) 16:16, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

See upthread. In particular, it has been logged as a bug.--SPhilbrickT 16:23, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure the box must be extendable with a CSS hack, and I've asked also if someone might know how to do it. Someone at mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org might also be able to recommend a way to do this. kcylsnavS ^{screech} 15:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PleaseStand/vector.css kcylsnavS ^{screech} 15:48, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I rarely search, so I'm not using such a hack, but it's easy enough to try something like the following:

#simpleSearch input#searchInput {width: 15em;}

The default is 9em; 20em is probably the biggest you'll need in practice. {{Nihiltres|talk|edits|⚡}} 17:22, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

"Watch" star

Can we come to a consensus that this doesn't make any sense and should be changed back? It's less usable for new users and has no advantage for experienced users. It conflicts stylistically with the FA star. And it's the only icon in a menu of text buttons. You don't mix and match text and icons in the same menu. In fact it's the only icon on any of our navigation tools. It's a nonsensical style choice and doesn't reflect the desire to give users (especially new users) a transparent, usable interface. —Noisalt (talk) 15:38, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I certainly hope we can reach such a consensus. The star is ridiculous. And arguments about "friendliness" don't wash, because most readers will never see it. — Gavia immer (talk) 16:04, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, it was done like this because certain languages (like German) have a very long translation for "watch this page" or just "watch". This ended up causing a ridiculous amount of space to be taken up. The star frees the space and makes the Germans happy, but not us I guess. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 17:19, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

...So give the German-language projects the option to do that. We don't need it. — Gavia immer (talk) 17:36, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, the German Wikipedia is still using Monobook, so you can see for yourself that "Beobachten", the term used in the German interface, is not wasting any space at all. — Gavia immer (talk) 17:43, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

[By the way, this reminds me of the change from "+" to "new section" on talk pages. -- Wavelength (talk) 17:41, 14 May 2010 (UTC)]

Heh, I was the one who implemented that change… yet I personally overrode the default to use "+" again… anyway, I agree that the star is a poor choice. I think we ought to make sure the Usability team is aware of our concern, and in the meantime, it's not too hard for users to change it back with JavaScript. I've changed it back to text and moved it to the bottom of the drop-down menu, personally. Check the ⚡ in my signature for my scripts. {{Nihiltres|talk|edits|⚡}} 17:48, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

For the record, I heartily recommend Nihiltres's script to easily patch up problems with Vector. I'm using it myself, though it hasn't gotten me to stop bitching about all the things I have to patch up. — Gavia immer (talk) 17:59, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Section dividers bleeding into Infobox

Please could someone confirm this for me? If I view Pamela Anderson under the Vector skin then the first two section dividers bleed into the Infobox. Under the Monobook skin they don't. Philip Trueman (talk) 14:54, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I can confirm that in IE 8 the lines below the headings continue to where the infobox is. Svick (talk) 15:05, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

They do that on Monobook as well. Or at least they should. Vector Monobook. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Not for me, using IE8. Under the vector skin, the section divider lines go right through the infobox. Under the monobook skin, they stop at the infobox. I have a screen grab I'd be happy to send you. Philip Trueman (talk) 16:04, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

You can use http://imagebin.ca —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 16:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks - please see [2]. The line underlining the 'Early life' section goes right through the photo in the infobox. Have I made myself clear now? Philip Trueman (talk) 16:23, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting. There is also a line under the "tabs" at the top that shouldn't be there. If someone else can confirm to be seeing the same problem, I'll file a bugreport. In the meantime, please try logging out and see if you have the same problem (if you don't, it might be some CSS or something that a gadget or userscript is using, that is the problems). —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 19:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Like I said above, I can confirm this happens in IE 8 on Vista: screenshot of vector, screenshot of monobook. (I don't see the line below tabs in vector). Svick (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

New look

Guys,

I know a lot of work has gone into the new look and there is an understandable reluctance to roll it back, but I don't think we have any choice. The interface is *unusable* at the moment. The search box keeps cropping my text, not to mention the fact that the focus for the cursor should be in the search box when a page is first loaded. Also, as mentioned above, there is a problem with right clicking the search box and pasting something into it.

Saying "it's easy enough to work around this, use Ctrl-V instead" is hardly satisfactory - millions of people use this site, and it is not intended for use only for technically literate people. I work in web development and if we delivered a solution like this one to the customer we would lose the contract.

I suggest a complete rollback to Mono skin for non-logged-in users until the problems are resolved, otherwise the reputation of Wikipedia will suffer. Or am I missing something? Thanks — SteveRwanda (talk) 15:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

PS - another favourite bug - the search box occasionally interjects "Null" in place of what has been typed. I'm not sure exactly what the circumstances are which lead to this, but the stats make interesting reading: [3] - the Null article, which typically receives 1k-2k visits per day received 28k yesterday alone! SteveRwanda (talk) 15:41, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Just to interject my two cents: how are the problems supposed to be found and fixed if nobody uses the skin? EVula // talk // ☯ // 15:46, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

It's almost 9AM in California, people who will look into this are only just getting to the office I presume. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:57, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the search box focus: see the FAQ at the top of the page. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 18:03, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Find and replace

The new find and replace editing function is a great addition but I can't get it to work in IE8. In Firefox, it appears on the right-hand side of the editing toolbar, when the 'advanced' button is clicked. In IE, however, it doesn't appear there. Any ideas? Everything else about the toolbar seems to work. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't see any such function in IE. Another problem with the advanced toolbar is that the "heading" drop-down list drops down behind the edit window, i.e. it's invisible (it didn't the first time I tried it, but now it's doing it consistently).--Kotniski (talk) 10:01, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Does IE8 have the "link insertion" wizard as Firefox does ? Cause IE had trouble with dialogs, so i believe it was still disabled for IE. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, the "link" icon in the edit box works for me (it brings up a rather strange kind of dialog, but it does work).--Kotniski (talk) 10:53, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Disabled in IE due to a bug bugzilla:22878. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC)