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Modern Combat 4: Zero Hour Meltdown Update

I'd like someone to update the Modern Combat 4: Zero Hour article to cope with the Meltdown Update, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blitzkrieg99 (talk • contribs) 12:45, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Comment requested on Infobox video game

Your comment is requested at Template talk:Infobox video game#Use of Wikidata. Thanks. --Izno (talk) 03:46, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Need some more eyes on a guidelines dispute

Hey, could I get a few of you guys to look at and weigh in on a dispute going on in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines? User:Wonchop and User:Ryulong are going at it over a proposed new set of guidelines relating to Japanese text in articles, which I've said I think is unnecessary (because the salient points are covered in the general MOS) and too restrictive (there are other languages that should fall under the same rules). But at the moment, it's only part merit discussion and part personal dispute between those two, and I frankly don't feel like trying to moderate it at the moment. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 07:05, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

On a related note are the most recent changed to Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Dual Destinies necessary or should they be reverted?--64.229.165.126 (talk) 21:34, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Query on notability of Stellar Mercenaries

Someone asked on my talk page and this isn't my field of expertise. The question was "I came across an article that seems to be about a game that is not so notable. There is no reason mentioned in the article of why the game should be on Wikipedia. Stellar Mercenaries is the article I am talking about. The entire article is written from only two sources that are not so credible. I would have nominated it for deletion myself, but..."

Could someone here take a look and I'll direct the editor to this project to get his answer. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:55, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

I know I've heard of this game outside of Wikipedia, but an initial Google search only turned up the sources that were already cited in that article, and a handful of other sources that are strictly in French. I haven't done MUCH research into it, but so far it does appear this game seems to be lacking a bit in the notability department. I'd like to defer to others who are more familiar with our various reliable sources to see if there's better information available.

The article itself is little more than a stub - it would need to be cleaned up and organized into the standard sections. But that alone isn't a reason to delete it, nor is a lack of citations. But if we can't find good sources and coverage for it, then that would be a good reason to AFD it. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 20:35, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

DuckTales Remastered again

It has now been proposed (by myself) that the section on DuckTales: Remastered on the DuckTales (video game) page be split to its own article. Additional input is requested in the discussion here. Thanks. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:43, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

MechWarrior Online POV Push

This is a head up that there may be a WP:POVPUSH and brewing edit war at MechWarrior Online. The dispute is over the significance to a controversy relating to the recent addition of a third person view mode to the game. The article does need some general TLC anyways and general copyediting as well. 24.49.23.45 (talk) 02:38, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

List of multimedia franchises

You might be interested in this list, as it includes multimedia franchises with video game components. Cheers! bd2412 T 20:49, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

I expanded the Mario section (duh!). I'm pretty sure some other franchises originating from video games qualify. :) ·Salvidrim!· ✉ 00:21, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Added Despicable Me (franchise), which I think just about qualifies when considering the short films and books. -- Trevj (talk) 09:16, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

America's Army1.jpg

image:America's Army1.jpg has been nominated for deletion (this is not an FFD). -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 06:20, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

GTA templates

Hi guys,

I could really use some input concerning the GTA templates. I've nominated the chronology one a while ago, with a lot of debating about whether or not the template does communicate any valuable information. I don't care for that particular template, but I wouldn't mind seeing the "universe" layout back into Template: Grand Theft Auto (similar to Template: Assassin's Creed), but I'm not sure how that will be received. --Soetermans. T / C 12:17, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Look, I don't want to go canvassing, but this deletion discussion could really use some new input. --Soetermans. T / C 14:18, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013'ss TFA

Tomorrow on the 16th The Simpsons: Hit & Run will be that days Featured Article on the main page. And I for one welcome our new video game overlords. GamerPro64 00:21, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Use of soundtrack cover art

I think it would be valuable for the project to sort of "crack down" on arbitrary use of a soundtrack's cover in a video game's article. While a soundtrack cover might have justification to be used, this is typically not the case. Besides the fact that almost every soundtrack cover I come across claims that its purpose is to be used at the top of its own article (when it is neither at the top nor is it acting as the primary representation of the subject of the article), in these cases I feel that readers would benefit from hearing an audio clip of the soundtrack rather than seeing a cover. A lot of soundtrack cover art aren't even different from the game's cover art. I think it's important for us to come up with some kind of guideline - either Wikipedia-wide or just sticking to our project - to limit these covers' use. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 15:38, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Per NFCC, if the soundtrack doesn't have its own article but is described in the main game article, and the cover is sufficiently similar to the video game's cover, then the image is duplicative per NFCC#1 + #3a and should be removed. I would go even further to add that unless the soundtrack actually has some type of release (doesn't have to be retail, but it should be something like obtaining the album from iTunes, Bandcamp, or through the various indie bundle packages), the soundtrack doesn't need a cover. Mind you, if the cover art of the soundtrack is discussed in some manner, that's a different issue, but 99.9% of the time, this just isn't the case. --MASEM (t) 16:35, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

That's part of the reason why I kind of want to get it in stone; I've been having trouble trying to remove soundtrack covers for that logic. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 17:32, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

I think it would be a neat compromise to add a sound clip on the article which the cover art is removed due to being similar. However that involves a bit more work, does it not? _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 17:43, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

No, that doesn't work like that. We only use non free when it helps the reader to understand the article. If a game's music is critically discussed that a sound clip will help the reader, it can be included, but just to identify the work, no we can't do that. --MASEM (t) 18:09, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Well I think we can all agree that it couldn't hurt to try to find a (legitimate) means of including a sound clip in a cover's place, so long as that sound clip can be shown to be just that noteworthy that it needs inclusion. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:14, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Per Masem, it should probably be a requirement then that one of the sources show that the music is worth mentioning. Wouldn't want soundclips on every single article, just those whose soundtracks are noted to be spectacular in the game's success. _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 18:30, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't suggest a general choice of just any song; for example, the SMB theme could have use in the Super Mario Bros. article because it is so famous. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:34, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

For anyone new to the discussion, we discussed this subject two other times at; [Video games] and [[1]].

This time his biggest complaints seems to center around the rationale that is used for the images. Which varies from article to article, some of which he doesn't seem to have read, but re-pasted the same editorial comments from his earlier edits.

New Age Retro Hippie: Rationale claims to be "top of the article", or "used for main infobox", or "it is to illustrate the subject, when it does not do that".

The only point I agree with Retro about this, is where it says at the 'top of the article', which I changed when I found them, because the uploaders clearly just used the same clip and paste style without reading what they were editing.

As to the other edits without 'top' my views are the "image does "illustrate the subject' of the infobox it represents". Rationale 'Use' should say: "in an infobox dedicated to the work in question". And from the Licensing section of image: 'solely to illustrate the audio recording in question'.

On such articles as Super Mario Galaxy, "the soundtrack has won numerous critic awards, such as "Best Design in Audio" from the U.K.'s Edge Magazine" and others where it talks about the music as "wide variety of different musical styles" one audio clip isn't representative of the whole.

Even in cases where there is one song that stands out alone, like Super Mario Bros. theme there is the repetitiveness that would be present if it was also on Super Mario Bros. because it appears in many more games then just that one, and would be in two articles. But the soundtrack album [2] does represent that game individually. While that one musical piece only represents itself and not the variety of music that is represented in the other tracks of the game, which are thematically different. It would give a false view of the game's music as being in that one style. (Floppydog66 (talk) 07:51, 17 September 2013 (UTC))

You sure do seem esteemed to claim that I'm not reading the rationales and not showing one single example where that has ever been the case. The SMB clip shows a famous song, while the SMB soundtrack cover does nothing of worth. As it's not depicting the subject of the article, the image - not what it's depicting - needs to be noteworthy. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 08:26, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I am sure that if you look, many sources will mention the music. For instance, IGN usually says something about it in their ending score. For Super Mario Galaxy in particular, it has a whole paragraph(some about lack of voices, but mostly praising the music) right before the "verdict". The artwork for the music cover is also significantly different then the game's boxart, so it passes that. I literally can't find any reason why it can't be included. _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 15:56, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

If the soundtrack is notable in its own right and could standalone in a separate article, the soundtrack should have its identifying art omitted. American Beauty: Original Motion Picture Score and American Beauty (soundtrack) could be merged into American Beauty (film), but even if it were - the identifying art should remain. - hahnchen 16:23, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

If this was the case (where both soundtracks were merged to the film article), we would delete the soundtrack cover for the second soundtrack listed above, because it is clearly similar to the movie poster and thus duplicative per NFCC#3a. The first one would likely be reasonable to keep because of the difference between the two in terms of visuals. This would appply to video game article - we would not include the cover of the Gears of War soundtrack (seen here [3]) on the game's page because of thematic similarities. --MASEM (t) 17:30, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

But if we were to split out the Gears of War soundtrack article (if it's notable enough), having a cover would be fine? It seems misguided to judge non-free media usage depending on the organisation of articles and highly subjective arguments of "thematic similarities". The Gears of War soundtrack cover is quite different to the game cover (despite similarities). The game cover is unsuitable for the identifying artwork for the album, the game cover does not convey "equivalent significant information". - hahnchen 21:52, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, if it was a separate article, the soundtrack could have its cover used. But on the same page, no. And we consider the Gears game and soundtrack cover "close enough" that there's no branding information to be found in the soundtrack as to not require it if they were used on the same page. Our goal is to minimize non-free, and cover art - game, soundtrack, etc. - are typically only allowed for implicit branding information, not just to have an image there. --MASEM (t) 22:01, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I've seen many GA articles about films and animated series that hold a cover art (so long as that it has an infobox). It doesn't really matter if it does, but i don't think having one cover art is needed in general. So long as theres only "one" cover art for the soundtracks.Lucia Black (talk) 03:03, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Our NFC policy is pretty explicit here. An article about a published work can use a piece of non-free cover art as the identifying image for the published work in the article. Any other cover art - included covers for the same work and/or related works may not be used without discussion about the image itself. We make limited exceptions for vastly different alternate art for retail soundtracks, but that's pretty much it. --MASEM (t) 03:08, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

don't find that in WP:NFCC, unless it's an individual guideline from WP:VG, i don't think we should have such guidelines that don't follow WP:NFCC's principle.Lucia Black (talk) 03:17, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

It's under WP:NFCI, and trust me, as one of the main enforcers of NFCC, this is standard practice. (Briefly, cover art for identification but otherwise not discussed fails NFCC#8) --MASEM (t) 03:26, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

it doesn't mention "related" works, nor does it mention we can't add more than 1 cover art. standard practice, doesn't mean official rule. So all we need it more critical commentary before adding in a cover art of a soundtrack if said sountrack.Lucia Black (talk) 03:34, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Read the footnote of WP:NFCI#1: NFCI#1 relates to the use of cover art within articles whose main subject is the work associated with the cover. Within such articles, the cover art implicitly satisfies the "contextual significance" NFCC criterion (NFCC#8) by virtue of the marketing, branding, and identification information that the cover conveys. The same rationale does not usually apply when the work is described in other articles, such as articles about the author or musician; in such articles, the NFCC criteria typically require that the cover art itself be significantly discussed within the article. This is not a new rule, this has been practice for years. --MASEM (t) 03:42, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

again, this is still not sinking in, i'm not really understanding how a cover art of a different media applies if related to the same subject. Unless you're trying to connect it with marketing, branding, and identification. in which a different media can offer a completely different set of marketing.Lucia Black (talk) 03:46, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree with User:Blake, the soundtracks are usually mentioned more then one song or a theme on the soundtrack, and any image/audio should be based on the references of the article. One doesn't necessaily replace the other. (Floppydog66 (talk) 06:52, 19 September 2013 (UTC))

Need a third opinion on LCD games from The Legend of Zelda series and CD-i games from The Legend of Zelda series.

I've made the argument that the CD-i and LCD boxarts are excessive, and only one of each should be featured in their respective articles due to the fact that two images cannot be used simply to identify the subject of the article. I'd appreciate some input on their talk pages. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 19:00, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

I'd really appreciate some input on this matter, especially from anyone involved in the cover art RfC from a couple years back. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 19:47, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, the CD-i games appear to be notable on their own. I may suggest splitting all 3 games and GAN them. I understand though, that they would be very short, but their well sourced, well written, and focused. So i dont know if thats what you want, but it could be a possibility and we don't have to remove any images.Lucia Black (talk) 20:08, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I've proposed splitting them into two articles, since Wand of Gamelon and Faces of Evil had almost exactly the same development and most of the reception centers around the two games as one subject. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 20:18, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Sounds fair. those two could be split into a single article while the last one be split into it's own.Lucia Black (talk) 20:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Wanna help out w/ the Zelda's Adventure article while I work on the duo article? - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 20:23, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Are you referring to me splitting it, or expanding whats already there?Lucia Black (talk) 20:25, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Splitting mostly, expanding if you like. I think they all could stand to have some expansion done to them considering that reliable sources have likely discussed them more since the CD-i article was created. The best part of this situation is that we could have THREE good articles making it a good topic. Maybe even throw in Hotel Mario if we want to make it a "Nintendo-licensed CD-i games" good topic. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 20:41, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

yes, that is also what i was thinking, but I'm no expert in GA/featured topic so i wasn't sure if it would have been able to become one. I'll look into Nintendo licensed CD-i games. I apparently hear there are cancelled Cd-i games for Nintendo as well outside Hotel Mario. that could possibly benefit the current Zelda Cd-i article. But that's such a big decision, it may need a stronger consensus.Lucia Black (talk) 20:52, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

• Be best to keep this conversation in one place. Talk:CD-i games from The Legend of Zelda series More input would be nice though. Right now two of the three games are stuck together in one article, despite having each their own 600,000 dollar budget, different maps, different cutscenes, different main characters, you playing as Link in the first and as Zelda in the second, different stories, and having been sold as full price games separately. They also have different reviews covering them individuals, so they would each pass the general notability guidelines just fine. I found additional reviews for each to expand them farther. Any similar information could be changed as the articles are allowed to grow. Dream Focus 15:59, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Japanese text for video game consoles.

Currently, there are people arguing about this over at PlayStation 4. To start off the article, should it look like:

• PlayStation 4 (Japanese: プレイステーション4, Hepburn: Pureisutēshon Fō) or just
• PlayStation 4

On one hand, it seems strange to have the translation, because I don't believe it started as a Japanese title, and was then translated to "PlayStation 4". On the other hand, I'm sure others feel that, as Sony is a Japanese-originating company, it should be this way. I don't feel super strongly one way or another, but I wanted to check and see if there was a standing consensus one way or another, and then I'd enforce it as such. Thoughts? Sergecross73 msg me 17:34, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the utility of the Japanese is to our readers in this instance, because as you say the PS4 name is not a translation. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 17:40, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, my first instinct too, it offers no value to the reader. But they're already bordering edit-warring over it, so I wanted to confirm my suspicions... Sergecross73 msg me 17:50, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

If it was the case that the PS4 was only first released in Japan, and later brought to the West/English-speaking world (by the order of months/years), that would likely be reason to include the Japanese name alongside the translated Western Name, but here, because the PS4 is getting (effectively) simultaneously release and the name is effectively the same, it's just extra gobbledygook. --MASEM (t) 18:16, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I say it wont hurt to use the japanese name considering the sony consoles usually release in Japan first. Playstation 4 is just a small exception, but doesn't mean we shouldn't add it in.Lucia Black (talk) 18:21, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Aren't Japanese usually use "PlayStation 4" rather than katakana?[4] [5]--Misaka 10077 (talk) 05:44, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Sony refers to the console only in katakana form when used in article text 1 2. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 06:09, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Released dates out of English regions

As with the infobox, [development] section should only include English-speaking regions and the non-English region of first release or development.

— WP:VG/DATE

Though this is English language Wikipedia, a worldview should be proviced. If a Japanese-executed video game was official released in American and South Korea, the South Korea released date may not be listed per WP:VG/DATE. An example is Tales of Legendia, it was released on Oct 11, 2005 in South Korea, and sources can be easily provided. None of guildline means weight of non-English sources are less then English, so list the date is not failed WP:BALANCE. So why we don't allow editors list this kind of dates?--Misaka 10077 (talk) 05:37, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Compared to the four major regions: North America, Europe, Japan, and Australia, the number of sales from the other regions are very small. We have selected those primary regions to avoid having huge lists of release dates for every single region a game was released. --MASEM (t) 05:45, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

It's the same for other medias too, Primary and English related only. The reason is basically the sheer difficulty in proving that every info throughout the world is included (release date or broadcast station), and working with another language. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 06:06, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

That is a clear WP:BIAS issue, if not listed in the infobox it should be listed under "Releases" providing it can be sourced. Why omit perfectly acceptable information just because it is outside your region? Singapore is English-speaking, are you saying Singapore is not important? I doubt a huge list will ever be made, but a sourced sentence is not unreasonable. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 15:28, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

But this is standard across WP, and longstanding policy. It's data, but can be indiscriminate data when you consider there's 200+ potential countries to list and hence why full international release data/broadcast is not listed. Generally, by covering the aforementioned 4 regions, you have successfully covered the time frame where the game was first released for purposes of an encyclopedic summary. If a region outside those four has a release date that is far different from the others and is the subject of sourced discussion (such a game that might have been banned and later released a year after every other region), that can be mentioned in the prose. --MASEM (t) 15:36, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I disagree with that "four" assessment because China and Korea are large releases as well, even India which has millions of gamers. Just because they are non-English doesn't mean they are not worth even a passing mention. Also that 200+ potential countries is sorta a red herring because Latin America releases are typically grouped together and Africa, the micros and other places will not and likely never will get any release. Yes, the source and the localization are important, but if we ever have to cross that bridge, let me know - not even Super Mario would have an issue with that. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 04:37, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Should game articles about more than one game be allowed to have an image for the cover of more than one game?

Some articles out there have more than one game covered in them. If the games were released as separate full priced games, then should they be allowed to have their own infoboxes and an image of their cover? Should they each be allowed also a screenshot of gameplay, since that's important to understand what the game is about? Or should only the first game listed in the article be allowed that? Dream Focus 15:52, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Can you give an example? I assume we're not talking about a game series where individual games have their own articles as well (which, no, we'd not allowed it). I will say that from an NFC standpoint, we generally discourage it but also acknowledge that it penalizes editors that design keep one comprehensive article instead of separate ones (where there would be no question of a free image). Personally, if we're talking about 2 or 3 games, each that would be notable on its own, sure; on the other hand, if we're talking a barely notable series with 10+ games, no, we'd not. --MASEM (t) 16:01, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

The argument is currently going on at Talk:Link:_The_Faces_of_Evil_and_Zelda:_The_Wand_of_Gamelon while having previously started at Talk:CD-i_games_from_The_Legend_of_Zelda_series#Images. Dream Focus 18:43, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Commented there, but I will note this is one where both covers should share the infobox as we do with the various Pokemon titles since the two titles are so interconnected (more of an IAR than any specific rule) --MASEM (t) 18:50, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

actually pokemon just use one image regardless of two different versions. but i personally don't mind.Lucia Black (talk) 19:01, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages also uses only one cover. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 20:04, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, let me restate: from an NFC standpoint and how the articles are composed (where both games in the examples are given equal weight due to simultaneous releases), the use of both covers could be found permissible. If editors feel that one cover is sufficient, hey great, but if consensus wants two, it is reasonable in this case. --MASEM (t) 20:20, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

In my opinion, the best images to use for the article are a gameplay image, a cutscene image, and a visualization image. It occurs to me, however, that the games aren't particularly well-known by their cover arts, so I feel that adding two is pushing it. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 21:06, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

On what are you basing the idea that "the games aren't particularly well-known by their cover arts"? We're using an infobox and according to the MoS, English-language coverart is ideal for use in the image field. Since there are two games it makes sense to use both covers. The NFUR for the image currently used only covers half of the article. -Thibbs (talk) 23:48, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I keep asking you to explain why this is okay for articles covering two games but not an article covering say, 20 games. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 23:51, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

How would you suggest putting 20 coverarts into an infobox? The difference between using 2 coverarts and using 20 is that 2 is not excessive and 20 is. It's pretty simple really. -Thibbs (talk) 23:55, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

The other factor here, specifically, is we are talking games that are effectively different sides of the same coin - simultaneously releases, equivalent gameplay, etc. So selecting which cover of the two to pick is a 50-50 call. If consensus does that, great, but if it's split, it's reasonable to use both. On the other hand, if we're talking a series of games all covered on one page and where no individual game is notable, really only one cover is needed. --MASEM (t) 00:00, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Usually, a series of games would cover a logo instead of a cover because the art can be vastly different, right? If we're allowed to add two cover arts, i suggest making them smaller. But even so, 3 covers may be excessive too right? and just to give an example of this, there is Mega Man Star Force which as a Leo, Peagesus and Dragon version, and all 3 have their own individual covers. I believe if their too similar, we shouldn't even add an individual cover, we should just say "this is cover A depicting character A, cover B has character B instead" As new age retro hippie said, it's the game play differences that matter most.Lucia Black (talk) 00:21, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

I'd earlier suggested joining them in a single image. The comparisons to these games with different versions doesn't really make sense in this context, though. Faces of Evil isn't a different version of Wand of Gamelon. It's an entirely different game. The same engine is used and the development of the two games occurred simultaneously but it's no more a different version of the same game than Doom 2 is just a different version of Doom 1. -Thibbs (talk) 00:25, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

but it's not like one is a sequel to the other, and the fact that they were released concurrently, suggest that theres no specific chronology (although i'm just assuming this). Although plot is a factor, and they can be considered two different games (Oracle of Ages and Oracle of seasons for example have the exact same issue). I don't necessarily believe its necessary. if you think Zelda and Link are just a minor exception....then you'll have to prove why. To me, it's just a cover, and they have strong similarities...so although they have different plots, they aren't played in a specific order.Lucia Black (talk) 00:35, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

What does the in-game chronology have to do with anything? The two games were intended as separate releases and were sold separately. They have completely different plots and they received different critical reception. The necessity of using both images is to identify a topic that consists of two different games. Using one alone visually represents half of the topic. The interest is shielding Wikipedia from legal challenges is certainly admirable but this minimal use would fit easily within Fair Use. It's not that it's unlikely that Wikipedia would be sued over this. It's quite impossible. There's no realistic reason to delete either of the images because they both meet Fair Use and the article would be damaged by deleting them because together they visually represent the topic. -Thibbs (talk) 00:47, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

you're the one who brought the example of Doom 1 and Doom 2. hich is an issue of chronology. the games were relased together on the same day, which makes them companion games. Oracle of Ages and Oracle of seasons is a clear example of this. To me, it just shows one side of the whole puzzle, but it doesnt mean one side isn't enough....and showing multiple is unnecessary. Let's look at .hack//G.U. which encompasses all 3 games. do we add all three images? it's just excessive, and a cover doesn't really have to encompass the entire topic the exact same way, but an example of what the topic covers. But fine, if the covers are within "2" covers, we keep 2. But if there's more than 2 versions, we just keep 1.Lucia Black (talk) 00:58, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Doom 1 and Doom 2 is not an issue of chronology but rather they present an issue of the same engine not demonstrating that the games are different versions. This concept that Wand of Gamelon and Faces of Evil are "companion games" is news to me. Do you have any source that backs that claim up? Meanwhile .hack//G.U. is a series whereas Wand of Gamelon and Faces of Evil aren't. The article you've suggested so far that is comparable to this one is the combined Oracle of Seasons/Ages article. And I wouldn't have any problems with adding the other coverimage there either provided that the consensus wasn't opposed. -Thibbs (talk) 01:13, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Hardcoregaming101 has considered them a duo. not exactly the most reliable of sources, but the fact that reviews cover them together, also shows that they are duo. Oracle and Ages and Oracle of Seasons. ignore it or address it. but make sure you make us know which one you pick.Lucia Black (talk) 01:28, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

The terms are becoming vaguer and vaguer. We've gone from calling the two games different versions of the same game ala Mega Man Star Force to calling them series members ala .hack//G.U then calling them "companion games" and now "a duo". Yes there are two games. They are different games. They were released individually as separate games. They have different plots and they weren't intended to be played together. I wouldn't like to pick either one as they both only cover half the topic. As I said, I'd be fine with a single low-res image of both as a means to visually represent the topic - two games. This doesn't violate Fair Use so Wikipedia is safe from lawsuits. It represents minimal usage of Non-free content. Removal of either one does nothing to improve the article. -Thibbs (talk) 01:53, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons. Ill be clear. "Address" that your going to ignore it, or adress it. The naming doesn't necesarily matter, their grouped together despite being separate releases.Lucia Black (talk) 01:58, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

For cases where the article is about more then one game, I feel things like this are more apropraite File:SherlockHolmes,ConsultingDetective,VideogameSet.jpg.

Where there is one image of all three covers thus taking away the need for having multiple articles. Hopefully User:Masem will take a look at the rationale of this and 'Super Mario Galaxy: Original Soundtrack' and see if they work. Because I'm sure if it says 'a video game cover' and there are more then one Retro will probably claim it is unfair use and try delete it, or do some such thing then argue about it with the uploader/reverter for a while, and then afterward go to the article or project page that it is for and discuss it properly.

"It will illustrate the cover art for three releases of the game, without it there would be three separate images of each release on various articles. This version of the cover art for all three limits the use of such images, and the possibility that they could be used to pirate the cover of any of the games represented."

"Photograph I took of the cover art of all three releases."

But that is also my suggestion for the CD-i Zelda games also, whether they are all on one article or they are split into some having two games discussed in the article, an image of each game should be present. The same developer and publisher are usually used for each game when two or more similar games are disscussed in one article. As with Link: The Faces of Evil and Zelda: The Wand of Gamelon I'd give them one image with two screenshots showing the differances and similarities of the two games. (Floppydog66 (talk) 06:52, 19 September 2013 (UTC))