Talk:Barack Obama: Difference between revisions
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:::::Perhaps we could a put a hyphen in place of each <code>&nbsp;</code>. [[User:SMP0328.|SMP0328.]] ([[User talk:SMP0328.|talk]]) 03:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC) |
:::::Perhaps we could a put a hyphen in place of each <code>&nbsp;</code>. [[User:SMP0328.|SMP0328.]] ([[User talk:SMP0328.|talk]]) 03:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC) |
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::::::Why would we want to replace a space with a hyphen in places where a hyphen is not normally called for? And if we did, would we use normal (breaking) hyphens, or the even more difficult to code [[non-breaking hyphen]]s? [[Special:Contributions/2600:1006:B16F:48A2:14E8:C473:9B00:7111|2600:1006:B16F:48A2:14E8:C473:9B00:7111]] ([[User talk:2600:1006:B16F:48A2:14E8:C473:9B00:7111|talk]]) 04:22, 25 April 2015 (UTC) |
::::::Why would we want to replace a space with a hyphen in places where a hyphen is not normally called for? And if we did, would we use normal (breaking) hyphens, or the even more difficult to code [[non-breaking hyphen]]s? [[Special:Contributions/2600:1006:B16F:48A2:14E8:C473:9B00:7111|2600:1006:B16F:48A2:14E8:C473:9B00:7111]] ([[User talk:2600:1006:B16F:48A2:14E8:C473:9B00:7111|talk]]) 04:22, 25 April 2015 (UTC) |
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::::::{{edit conflict}} I disagree with removing the non-breaking spaces. Line breaks in situations such as these are undesirable. As for replacing them with hyphens, I am not sure that is appropriate. Non-breaking spaces are permitted per [[MOS:NBSP]]. [[User:Dustin V. S.|<span style="color:green; font-family:Times New Roman">''Dustin''</span>]] [[User talk:Dustin V. S.|(<span style="color:green; font-family:Times New Roman">talk</span>)]] 04:23, 25 April 2015 (UTC) |
::::::{{edit conflict}} I disagree with removing the non-breaking spaces. Line breaks in situations such as these are undesirable. As for replacing them with hyphens, I am not sure that is appropriate. Non-breaking spaces are permitted per [[MOS:NBSP]]. [[User:Dustin V. S.|<span style="color:green; font-family:Times New Roman">''Dustin''</span>]] [[User talk:Dustin V. S.|(<span style="color:green; font-family:Times New Roman">talk</span>)]] 04:23, 25 April 2015 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 15:47, 25 April 2015
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Barack Obama article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Frequently asked questions
Family and religious background Q1: Why isn't Barack Obama's Muslim heritage or education included in this article?
A1: Barack Obama was never a practitioner of Islam. His biological father having been "raised as a Muslim" but being a "confirmed atheist" by the time Obama was born is mentioned in the article. Please see this article on Snopes.com for a fairly in-depth debunking of the myth that Obama is Muslim. Barack Obama did not attend an Islamic or Muslim school while living in Indonesia age 6–10, but Roman Catholic and secular public schools. See [1], [2], [3] The sub-articles Public image of Barack Obama and Barack Obama religion conspiracy theories address this issue. Q2: The article refers to him as African American, but his mother is white and his black father was not an American. Should he be called African American, or something else ("biracial", "mixed", "Kenyan-American", "mulatto", "quadroon", etc.)?
A2: Obama himself and the media identify him, the vast majority of the time, as African American or black. African American is primarily defined as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa", a statement that accurately describes Obama and does not preclude or negate origins in the white populations of America as well. Thus we use the term African American in the introduction, and address the specifics of his parentage in the first headed section of the article. Many individuals who identify as black have varieties of ancestors from many countries who may identify with other racial or ethnic groups. See our article on race for more information on this concept. We could call him the first "biracial" candidate or the first "half black half white" candidate or the first candidate with a parent born in Africa, but Wikipedia is a tertiary source which reports what other reliable sources say, and most of those other sources say "first African American". Readers will learn more detail about his ethnic background in the article body. Q3: Why can't we use his full name outside of the lead? It's his name, isn't it?
A3: The relevant part of the Manual of Style says that outside the lead of an article on a person, that person's conventional name is the only one that's appropriate. (Thus one use of "Richard Milhous Nixon" in the lead of Richard Nixon, "Richard Nixon" thereafter.) Talk page consensus has also established this. Q4: Why is Obama referred to as "Barack Hussein Obama II" in the lead sentence rather than "Barack Hussein Obama, Jr."? Isn't "Jr." more common?
A4: Although "Jr." is typically used when a child shares the name of his or her parent, "II" is considered acceptable, as well. And in Obama's case, the usage on his birth certificate is indeed "II", and is thus the form used at the beginning of this article, per manual of style guidelines on names. Q5: Why don't we cover the claims that Obama is not a United States citizen, his birth certificate was forged, he was not born in Hawaii, he is ineligible to be President, etc?
A5: The Barack Obama article consists of an overview of major issues in the life and times of the subject. The controversy over his eligibility, citizenship, birth certificate etc is currently a fairly minor issue in overall terms, and has had no significant legal or mainstream political impact. It is therefore not currently appropriate for inclusion in an overview article. These claims are covered separately in Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories. Controversies, praise, and criticism Q6: Why isn't there a criticisms/controversies section?
A6: Because a section dedicated to criticisms and controversies is no more appropriate than a section dedicated solely to praise and is an indication of a poorly written article. Criticisms/controversies/praises should be worked into the existing prose of the article, per the Criticism essay. Q7: Why isn't a certain controversy/criticism/praise included in this article?
A7: Wikipedia's Biography of living persons policy says that "[c]riticism and praise of the subject should be represented if it is relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone." Criticism or praise that cannot be reliably sourced cannot be placed in a biography. Also, including everything about Obama in a single article would exceed Wikipedia's article size restrictions. A number of sub-articles have been created and some controversies/criticisms/praises have been summarized here or been left out of this article altogether, but are covered in some detail in the sub-articles. Q8: But this controversy/criticism/praise is all over the news right now! It should be covered in detail in the main article, not buried in a sub-article!
A8: Wikipedia articles should avoid giving undue weight to something just because it is in the news right now. If you feel that the criticism/controversy/praise is not being given enough weight in this article, you can try to start a discussion on the talk page about giving it more. See WP:BRD. Q9: This article needs much more (or much less) criticism/controversy.
A9: Please try to assume good faith. Like all articles on Wikipedia, this article is a work in progress so it is possible for biases to exist at any point in time. If you see a bias that you wish to address, you are more than welcome to start a new discussion, or join in an existing discussion, but please be ready to provide sources to support your viewpoint and try to keep your comments civil. Starting off your discussion by accusing the editors of this article of having a bias is the quickest way to get your comment ignored. Talk and article mechanics Q10: This article is over 275kb long, and the article size guideline says that it should be broken up into sub-articles. Why hasn't this happened?
A10: The restriction mentioned in WP:SIZE is 60kB of readable prose, not the byte count you see when you open the page for editing. As of May 11, 2016, this article had about 10,570 words of readable prose (65 kB according to prosesize tool), only slightly above the guideline. The rest is mainly citations and invisible comments, which do not count towards the limit. Q11: I notice this FAQ mentions starting discussions or joining in on existing discussions a lot. If Wikipedia is supposed to be the encyclopedia anyone can edit, shouldn't I just be bold and fix any biases that I see in the article?
A11: It is true that Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit and no one needs the permission of other editors of this article to make changes to it. But Wikipedia policy is that, "While the consensus process does not require posting to the discussion page, it can be useful and is encouraged." This article attracts editors that have very strong opinions about Obama (positive and negative) and these editors have different opinions about what should and should not be in the article, including differences as to appropriate level of detail. As a result of this it may be helpful, as a way to avoid content disputes, to seek consensus before adding contentious material to or removing it from the article. Q12: The article/talk page has been vandalized! Why hasn't anyone fixed this?
A12: Many editors watch this article, and it is unlikely that vandalism would remain unnoticed for long. It is possible that you are viewing a cached result of the article; If so, try bypassing your cache. Q13: Why are so many discussions closed so quickly?
A13: Swift closure is common for topics that have already been discussed repeatedly, topics pushing fringe theories, and topics that would lead to violations of Wikipedia's policy concerning biographies of living persons, because of their disruptive nature and the unlikelihood that consensus to include the material will arise from the new discussion. In those cases, editors are encouraged to read this FAQ for examples of such common topics. Q14: I added new content to the article, but it was removed!
A14: Double-check that your content addition is not sourced to an opinion blog, editorial, or non-mainstream news source. Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons states, in part, "Material about living persons must be sourced very carefully. Without reliable third-party sources, it may include original research and unverifiable statements, and could lead to libel claims." Sources of information must be of a very high quality for biographies. While this does not result in an outright ban of all blogs and opinion pieces, most of them are regarded as questionable. Inflammatory or potentially libelous content cited to a questionable source will be removed immediately without discussion. Q15: I disagree with the policies and content guidelines that prevent my proposed content from being added to the article.
A15: That's understandable. Wikipedia is a work in progress. If you do not approve of a policy cited in the removal of content, it's possible to change it. Making cogent, logical arguments on the policy's talk page is likely to result in a positive alteration. This is highly encouraged. However, this talk page is not the appropriate place to dispute the wording used in policies and guidelines. If you disagree with the interpretation of a policy or guideline, there is also recourse: Dispute resolution. Using the dispute resolution process prevents edit wars, and is encouraged. Q16: I saw someone start a discussion on a topic raised by a blog/opinion piece, and it was reverted!
A16: Unfortunately, due to its high profile, this talk page sees a lot of attempts to argue for policy- and guideline-violating content – sometimes the same violations many times a day. These are regarded as disruptive, as outlined above. Consensus can change; material previously determined to be unacceptable may become acceptable. But it becomes disruptive and exhausting when single-purpose accounts raise the same subject(s) repeatedly in the apparent hopes of overcoming significant objections by other editors. Editors have reached a consensus for dealing with this behavior:
Other Q17: Why aren't the 2008 and 2012 presidential campaigns covered in more detail?
A17: They are, in sub-articles called Barack Obama 2008 presidential campaign and Barack Obama 2012 presidential campaign. Things that are notable in the context of the presidential campaigns, but are of minimal notability to Barack Obama's overall biography, belong in the sub-articles. Campaign stops, the presidential debates, and the back-and-forth accusations and claims of the campaigns can all be found there. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80 81, 82, 83 |
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ACA information
I feel as if there is too little information about the complications surrounding the initial rollout of the ACA, particularly the technical problems with the federal website. I also noticed that there is no mention, at least under "healthcare reform", of the confusion over who can keep their plan and who cannot. I am not saying we need to go full fox news about this or that criticisms should be a major portion of the subsection, but at the very least a sentence or two are needed to maintain an unbiased description. Please let me know what you think about this. Tacocar (talk) 22:43, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
- Stuff like that is really too detailed to get into in a biographical article. Have you checked Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and perhaps Presidency of Barack Obama? Tarc (talk) 23:15, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
- There is not much there either, and I do think that there is a great deal of positive detail on this page, especially about the ACA, without any mention of negative occurrences. When I look at other biographical pages, like George W. Bush's, I see a great deal of positive and negative comments and analysis, which is a good thing! I just feel as though Obama's statements about keeping your plan are more pertinent to a biography page than the details about how the ACA works. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tacocar (talk • contribs)
- This article is about Barack Obama, not the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. If the ACA article is lacking in detail, please make suggestions there. Also, to suggest there is a "great deal of positive detail... without any mention of negative occurrences" is not a fair reading of the article and a recipe for setting up a false balance. Moreover, we don't change articles on the basis of what goes on at other articles. Articles are by and large independent of one another. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:05, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not trying to cause any anger here, I am new to contributing to Wikipedia so please forgive me if I am still learning how it works. I am simply confused as to why there is no mention of Obama lying to the American people about keeping their plan and keeping their doctor. Believe me, I personally have no issue with the Law and I understand that the plans that were cancelled barely qualify as medical insurance at all, but when a president lies to his people, or at the very least does not understand consequences of his legislation, it should be listed on his or her biography. I understand that this is not an article specifically about his presidency, but under the healthcare subsection there are specific descriptions of how the law works and how it was legally justified, yet no mention of the issue of "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan". Perhaps the issue is that there is too much information there already, but I do not understand how insurance rates under a person's presidency is any more linked to him or her than repeatedly misleading his or her people. I am really not trying to start a political debate here, I am simply seeing what looks to be an article with a slight bias towards the president, and as an avid user of Wikipedia I want to see the least biased articles possible. I would understand leaving this information out if it was disputable whether or not the president misled the American people about keeping their plans, but it is an undisputable fact that the president stated that the American people could keep their plans under the ACA "period". Simply put: I think his comments about the American people being able to keep their plans are just as, if not more, applicable to this article as a description of the law and a chart showing insurance rates during his presidency. I would like to make it clear again that I am not trying to attack anyone personally, but rather understand different opinions on the matter. On another note, I agree that articles should be handled independently; I was trying to show the article on Bush as an example of a biography that showed positives and negatives in an unbiased format. Thank you. Tacocar (talk) 22:30, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- First off, when you take things out of content or change the wording, it can be misleading. Obama had a grandfather clause in the law to keep old plans, but it was not strong enough to work. The intent was there. Such a confusing matter that no one knows how many plans were cancelled, does not belong in a biography. I added a statement that in late 2013 he dropped in approval rating due the ACA rollout. -Frmorrison (talk) 23:32, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not arguing whether or not he intended for people to lose their plans or not because it is obvious that he would never want that. I simply believe it should at least be mentioned that he failed to deliver on this promise, especially because he campaigned on it so much. If there is enough room to describe the maximum out-of-pocket premiums under the law, there is enough room to explain where he was not able to follow though on a promise he continuously made to the American people. Also, he continued to make that promise after the law was signed and the HHS regulations had been released. The idea that if you like the plan you currently have then you can keep it was one of the major promises obama made about the law and I think that should be included. Thank you. (Again, not trying to spark any anger)Tacocar (talk) 17:57, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- No it should be included here because if it not important enough. I would bet real money that every member of Congress has promised something and it didn't happen. If you want to contribute information about the ACA, check out the ACA article instead of this one. You do not have consensus over your contrasting opinions. -Frmorrison (talk) 18:02, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- To be fair, only two types of plans were cancelled:
- Plans that were so utterly rubbish, they didn't cover the minimal requirements set out in the ACA ("junk" policies).
- Plans that were deemed too costly by greedy insurance companies, so they used the ACA as an excuse to screw their customers.
- A tiny percentage of the population actually had their insurance cancelled, and most who did were able to get better policies for less money. So the reality is that although it didn't work out quite as planned, the nation is far better off with the ACA than without it. Focusing on a single negative talking point pushed by Republicans ignores the enormous success of "Obamacare" and thus sets up a false balance. -- Scjessey (talk) 18:49, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- To be clear, I'm not a republican. However, I don't think obamacare can be considered an "enormous success", at least not yet. But that is besides the point. I do not think the best way to avoid political bias is by completely ignoring a highly publicised issue with the law, especially considering how it affected his approval ratings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tacocar (talk • contribs) 18:57, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- The ACA aka obamacare is a complex topic. I do think it's his most notable accomplishment so should be discussed more. This article links to it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act so I don't think it's being ignored. But you may disagree with that article. I guess we don't have 100% reliable sources showing whether it's a success or failure at this point. Popish Plot (talk) 20:14, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- Many of the so-called "junk" policies that got canceled due to the ACA were canceled because they did not cover birth control for people in their 50s and 60s. The ACA requires all policies to cover birth control, even if the customers are too old to use it. These customers did not consider these policies to be "junk," and to use that word to describe them is an insult to the intelligence of those customers.
- As possible sources for criticism of the ACA for both this article and the main ACA article, the article at this link contains 331 criticisms of the ACA, and many of those criticisms are by Democrats and unions who had originally supported the ACA. Every one of these criticisms includes links to sources. While this article itself is not a reliable source, the hundreds of links that it contains are reliable sources. The ACA is much worse than you are claiming, as is proven by the many criticisms coming from the people who had originally supported it: http://tinyurl dot com /m8tfd7q 71.182.249.12 (talk) 15:56, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
- The IP-hopper's comment can be safely ignored. The blog is a partisan right-wing screed that links to dozens of low-quality sources. The claims about the junk policies are ludicrous - the whole point of the ACA is to spread the cost around, so older people who aren't going to have kids have to pay for birth control just the same as they have to pay for school taxes. The ACA has been one of the great successes of the 21st century. -- Scjessey (talk) 18:30, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
- To be clear, I'm not a republican. However, I don't think obamacare can be considered an "enormous success", at least not yet. But that is besides the point. I do not think the best way to avoid political bias is by completely ignoring a highly publicised issue with the law, especially considering how it affected his approval ratings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tacocar (talk • contribs) 18:57, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- To be fair, only two types of plans were cancelled:
- No it should be included here because if it not important enough. I would bet real money that every member of Congress has promised something and it didn't happen. If you want to contribute information about the ACA, check out the ACA article instead of this one. You do not have consensus over your contrasting opinions. -Frmorrison (talk) 18:02, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not arguing whether or not he intended for people to lose their plans or not because it is obvious that he would never want that. I simply believe it should at least be mentioned that he failed to deliver on this promise, especially because he campaigned on it so much. If there is enough room to describe the maximum out-of-pocket premiums under the law, there is enough room to explain where he was not able to follow though on a promise he continuously made to the American people. Also, he continued to make that promise after the law was signed and the HHS regulations had been released. The idea that if you like the plan you currently have then you can keep it was one of the major promises obama made about the law and I think that should be included. Thank you. (Again, not trying to spark any anger)Tacocar (talk) 17:57, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- First off, when you take things out of content or change the wording, it can be misleading. Obama had a grandfather clause in the law to keep old plans, but it was not strong enough to work. The intent was there. Such a confusing matter that no one knows how many plans were cancelled, does not belong in a biography. I added a statement that in late 2013 he dropped in approval rating due the ACA rollout. -Frmorrison (talk) 23:32, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not trying to cause any anger here, I am new to contributing to Wikipedia so please forgive me if I am still learning how it works. I am simply confused as to why there is no mention of Obama lying to the American people about keeping their plan and keeping their doctor. Believe me, I personally have no issue with the Law and I understand that the plans that were cancelled barely qualify as medical insurance at all, but when a president lies to his people, or at the very least does not understand consequences of his legislation, it should be listed on his or her biography. I understand that this is not an article specifically about his presidency, but under the healthcare subsection there are specific descriptions of how the law works and how it was legally justified, yet no mention of the issue of "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan". Perhaps the issue is that there is too much information there already, but I do not understand how insurance rates under a person's presidency is any more linked to him or her than repeatedly misleading his or her people. I am really not trying to start a political debate here, I am simply seeing what looks to be an article with a slight bias towards the president, and as an avid user of Wikipedia I want to see the least biased articles possible. I would understand leaving this information out if it was disputable whether or not the president misled the American people about keeping their plans, but it is an undisputable fact that the president stated that the American people could keep their plans under the ACA "period". Simply put: I think his comments about the American people being able to keep their plans are just as, if not more, applicable to this article as a description of the law and a chart showing insurance rates during his presidency. I would like to make it clear again that I am not trying to attack anyone personally, but rather understand different opinions on the matter. On another note, I agree that articles should be handled independently; I was trying to show the article on Bush as an example of a biography that showed positives and negatives in an unbiased format. Thank you. Tacocar (talk) 22:30, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- Here are some examples from the list, along with what you claim are their "low quality" sources:
- Harvard faculty members who supported the passage of Obamacare later complained that they had to pay for it: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/06/us/health-care-fixes-backed-by-harvards-experts-now-roil-its-faculty.html?smid=tw-nytimes&_r=2
- Unite Here (a union that supported Obama in both elections) said Obamacare “threatens the middle class with higher premiums, loss of hours, and a shift to part-time work and less comprehensive coverage.” http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2545310
- In December 2012, Al Franken, Elizabeth Warren, John Kerry, and 15 other Democrats who supported the passage of Obamacare wrote a letter to Harry Reid, asking him to delay the tax on medical devices, claiming that the tax would hurt job creation in their districts. http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/MedDeviceLetter12102012.pdf
- Five minute CNN video of Obamacare supporter complaining and complaining and complaining about her insurance being canceled https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F0z-Hxi5s8
- I’m an Obama supporter. But Obamacare has hurt my family. Obamacare has been far more frustrating than I’d ever dreamed. http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/12/10/im-an-obama-supporter-but-obamacare-has-hurt-my-family/
- Some Unions Grow Wary of Health Law They Backed http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323854904578260313912570432.html
- A self described “complete fan of the Affordable Care Act” who had cancer complained that Obamacare had caused her to lose coverage for her oncologist http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-obamacare-patients-20140205,0,1675336,full.story#axzz2sS6Xcoul
- Obamacare caused Catherine Blackwood to lose coverage for her cancer medications http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303945704579390772732855560?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB1000142405270230394570457939077273
- Doctor who survived breast cancer said “Under Obamacare, I’d be dead.” http://www.aim.org/guest-column/how-obamacare-slaps-the-sick/?utm_source=AIM+-+Daily+Email&utm_campaign=4417d947cf-email030714&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c4ddfc8d9d-4417d947cf-221591193
- Obamacare forced colon cancer survivor Janet Grigg to lose her doctor. Her new Obamacare policy covers zero doctors within a 400 mile radius of her home. http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/30/cancer-survivors-obamacare-plan-doesnt-cover-a-single-doctor-in-400-miles/
- After cancer patient Linda Rolain paid her Obamacare premiums, Obamacare refused to pay for her medical treatment, and she died http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/woman-class-action-lawsuit-against-xerox-dies
- Obamacare encourages employers to adopt a 29 hour work week, and this disproportionately hurts women http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/29/shes-a-29er/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&partner=yahoofinance&_r=1
- Hundreds of employers have switched to a 29 hour work week to avoid paying for Obamacare http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/101713-669013-obamacare-employer-mandate-a-list-of-cuts-to-work-hours-jobs.htm
- Obamacare customer borrowed $14,000 to pay for cataract surgery because her Obamacare policy refused to pay for it http://www.mercurynews.com/health/ci_27481258/obamacare-medi-cal-waiting-game-many-low-income
- 100% of Senate Democrats up for reelection planned to support a delay in Obamacare’s individual mandate - This tweet is from CNN's Dana Bash: https://twitter.com/DanaBashCNN/status/393110100153352192
- In February 2008, Obama said: “We are going to work with you to lower your premiums by $2,500. We will not wait 20 years from now to do it, or 10 years from now to do it. We will do it by the end of my first term as president.” However, by the time his first term was over, family premiums had gotten bigger, not smaller. The increase was $3,065 per family. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/health-premiums-3-065-obama-224300715.html
- Obamacare includes a 40% tax on so-called “Cadillac” insurance plans. In August 2013, unions that supported the passage of Obamacare complained about this tax. http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/obamacares-cadillac-tax-poses-problem-for-unions-and-city-finances.html/?ref=YF — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.98.41.135 (talk) 19:00, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
- Those are just some examples. The list contains hundreds of others, all with links to sources.
- Mostly out of date crap. The ACA is humming along nicely now, with few problems. Also, absolutely _none_ of that is biographically significant. And Democrats seeking delays regretted that after they lost their elections, the fools. -- Scjessey (talk) 19:14, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
- 1) Wikipedia is encyclopedic. Therefore, content cannot be "out of date."
- 2) No, the people in those, and in the hundreds of other examples, are not "humming along nicely now."
- 3) I agree with you that those things are not relevant to this article. However, they are relevant to the ACA article, but time and experience have shown that the people who control that article will not allow those things to be in that article. For example, the ACA article falsely claims that only "several" employers have adopted a 29 hour work week in order to avoid paying for Obamacare, when the source I cited above says the real number is in the "hundreds." Multiple attempts to replace this false info with the true info at the ACA article have been reverted, because the people who control that article prefer to give false info that makes the the ACA look good, instead of true info that makes the ACA look bad.
- 4) The ACA was deliberately written so that its most damaging provisions would not take place until after the 2012 election. In 2010, the only people criticizing the ACA were Republicans and Libertarians. However, starting in the fall of 2013, much of the biggest criticism has been coming from Democrats and unions, who seem totally shocked that these things are happening. Perhaps they should have actually read the ACA back in 2010, and then they would not be surprised at what is happening. If Republicans actually had any brains, they would stop trying to repeal the ACA, and instead, let the Democrats and unions who supported it, deal with the harm that it is causing them.
Activepol talk template
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Purple_arrow_down.svg/20px-Purple_arrow_down.svg.png)
I removed the "activepol=yes" parameter because Obama is not running for office, he is not campaigning for re-election, n or is he involved in some current political conflict or controversy as far as I am aware. Therefore surely he meets none of the criteria for that template. — This, that and the other (talk) 08:40, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
- Really? I don't know, I think he is the epitome of activepol - not involved in current political conflict or controversy? I think he would beg to differ, as I do. The point of the template is to remind folks that there may be partisan editing on the page - the story of this page for years - and although we do have the article probation template displayed so this isn't essential, I think the activepol reinforces it, and see no reason to remove it. Let's see what other editors think. Tvoz/talk 23:11, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
- The wording at Template:Active politician seems to be more restrictive than the description found at Category:Active politicians, so I don't know. I never knew this thing existed until now, since it does not display itself on talk pages. Tarc (talk) 01:18, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
- We're not using [[Template:Active politician]] or [[Category: Active politician]], we're using WikiProject BannerShell (subset WikiProject Biography) which does display the wording here when the "activepol=yes" is in place, and that's what was removed. This is not a big deal, but I reinstated it because I really don't get the logic of saying that Obama doesn't fit. Is he not involved in political conflict or controversy? News to me. Tvoz/talk 05:50, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Race
He's just as white as he is black. What is the excuse for this racism? DawnDusk (talk) 08:13, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
- There's been multiple (understatement) discussions on this. Please read the FAQ in the header and search through the archives. --NeilN talk to me 08:51, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
- Here's an easy link to the FAQ.--Rollins83 (talk) 15:10, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Obama's education
Why nothing on his undergraduate work as in GPA and how did he finance all this education through Harvard Law. Did he really register as a foreign student when in undergrad school. thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:31C9:EEF0:4DEF:6385:A719:E4D1 (talk) 20:06, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
- GPA is not normally released and no court ordered it released. Obama never registered as a foreign student since he is American. -Frmorrison (talk) 00:04, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
FYI
One of our favorite ex-editors is stirring up the "article isn't NPOV!" pot over at the Free Republic, so keep an eye out for vandalism today. Tarc (talk) 15:01, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
- Hahahaha! - "person who lives in my apartment building" is Grundle's sockpuppet defense, is it? That's too funny. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:55, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
- He does say "a crazy person who lives in my apartment building added the following reliably sourced content to that section on April 2, 2015". I suspect that is literally true. JoeSperrazza (talk) 17:00, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
- Heh. I miss Grundle sometimes. Not enough to let him edit this article, but still. Jonathunder (talk) 22:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- He does say "a crazy person who lives in my apartment building added the following reliably sourced content to that section on April 2, 2015". I suspect that is literally true. JoeSperrazza (talk) 17:00, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
U.S. drone strike
My suggestion for the main article: "As president and as Commander-in-chief, I take full responsibility for all our counterterrorism operations including the one that inadvertently took the lives of Warren and Giovanni," Obama said Thursday morning in the White House briefing room, where he apologized on behalf of the U.S. government. ref. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/23/politics/white-house-hostages-killed/index.html Probably place this to the Foreign policy section. 91.83.252.211 (talk) 15:25, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- While tragic, this is not biographically significant. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:47, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- Don't agree. Quite significant as he says he is responsible for the 2 people's death. 91.83.252.211 (talk) 16:52, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- Foreign policy of the Barack Obama administration would be suitable. Tarc (talk) 17:05, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- It's sad, but this president, like many of those before him, is responsible for the deaths of many. I agree with Tarc. Jonathunder (talk) 22:19, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- Foreign policy of the Barack Obama administration would be suitable. Tarc (talk) 17:05, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Is
needed?
This edit added
to various parts of the article. How does that improve the article? Should it be removed from the article? SMP0328. (talk) 23:35, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- The
is a non-breaking space which means that when a line wraps, it will not break between the number and the following word. The usages are debatable as there is a school of thought that a whole word like "million" should be allowed to wrap to the next line, and there's not much likelihood of someone thinking a value is only $10 by missing the "million" on the next line. On the other hand, perhaps the values are best if "million" is kept with the number. I think it's ok. Johnuniq (talk) 23:44, 24 April 2015 (UTC)- In this case, most of the article already used
, e.g.: $11.5
trillion, $3
trillion, and $1.5
trillion. For consistency I just added
where it was "missing". --Oldnewnew (talk) 00:43, 25 April 2015 (UTC)- I agree with the use of
being consistent, but I lean toward removing it throughout the article. SMP0328. (talk) 00:59, 25 April 2015 (UTC)- But then it should be removed from percent also, e.g. 70
percent. Would that be a good idea? --Oldnewnew (talk) 01:13, 25 April 2015 (UTC)- Perhaps we could a put a hyphen in place of each
. SMP0328. (talk) 03:49, 25 April 2015 (UTC)- Why would we want to replace a space with a hyphen in places where a hyphen is not normally called for? And if we did, would we use normal (breaking) hyphens, or the even more difficult to code non-breaking hyphens? 2600:1006:B16F:48A2:14E8:C473:9B00:7111 (talk) 04:22, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Perhaps we could a put a hyphen in place of each
- But then it should be removed from percent also, e.g. 70
- I agree with the use of
- In this case, most of the article already used
- (edit conflict) I disagree with removing the non-breaking spaces. Line breaks in situations such as these are undesirable. As for replacing them with hyphens, I am not sure that is appropriate. Non-breaking spaces are permitted per MOS:NBSP. Dustin (talk) 04:23, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
Missing consistency – Cite templates
Most of the article has cite templates. However, the Further reading section does not although the References section does. It looks like the cite templates are forgotten in the Further reading section. --Oldnewnew (talk) 00:47, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Done. I've added different cite templates in the section. However, there is a dead link. I'm not able to update it. Hope that someone can update it in the article:
- Zutter, Hank De (December 8, 1995). "What Makes Obama Run?". Chicago Reader. Retrieved January 14, 2008.[dead link]
- --Oldnewnew (talk) 03:02, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- You have twice added a bogus {{connected contributor}} to this talk page: diff + diff. That is something to do with a rather cheeky accusation on your talk about a claimed COI with regard to Steinway & Sons, aka WP:POINT. Please explain your connection with the subject of this article or revert your edit. Johnuniq (talk) 03:24, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
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