Talk:George H. W. Bush

Acting President of the United States

Should Acting President of the United States be included in the infobox for this article? -- Sleyece (talk) 00:59, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Not in the way you tried. GoodDay (talk) 23:12, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

GoodDay, so you agree that the change needs to be made? Can I count that comment as Support? - Sleyece (talk) 14:25, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

See comments at Dick Cheney article. GoodDay (talk) 14:56, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

George H. W. Bush
41st President of the United States
In office January 20, 1989 – January 20, 1993
Vice President	Dan Quayle
Preceded by	Ronald Reagan
Succeeded by	Bill Clinton
Acting President of the United States
In office July 13, 1985 – July 13, 1985
President	Ronald Reagan
43rd Vice President of the United States
In office January 20, 1981 – January 20, 1989
President	Ronald Reagan
Preceded by	Walter Mondale
Succeeded by	Dan Quayle

-- Sleyece (talk) 21:02, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

See my proposed infobox, below. GoodDay (talk) 02:24, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

George H. W. Bush
41st President of the United States
In office January 20, 1989 – January 20, 1993
Vice President	Dan Quayle
Preceded by	Ronald Reagan
Succeeded by	Bill Clinton
43rd Vice President of the United States
In office January 20, 1981 – January 20, 1989 Acting President: July 13, 1985
President	Ronald Reagan
Preceded by	Walter Mondale
Succeeded by	Dan Quayle

• Support I really like this proposal. It adds the necessary information without being too overlong. -- Sleyece (talk) 13:50, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. The very short time Bush spent as acting president during which he apparently did nothing of note has little relevance, if any, to his biography. Maybe mention it in the text, but there is no reason to clutter the infobox with this trivia. Deli nk (talk) 16:04, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

• Comment See here. -- Sleyece (talk) 14:03, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

I saw there – you torpedoed your own ship. Drdpw (talk) 15:16, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

I countered your logic. You replied "you're failing badly." because you have no counter argument. Also, while DC and H.W. were Acting President they had the power to torpedo ships all over the world if they wanted. -- Sleyece (talk) 16:53, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Excuse me, I apologize. It was another user that said "you are failing badly". Ignore the first part. My torpedo quip still stands, though. -- Sleyece (talk) 22:39, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

• Comment If there is no further opposition, I will make the proposed change, as amended, in three server days. -- Sleyece (talk) 18:35, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

No, it's not okay for you to go ahead and make the change, as consensus to do so does not exist. Drdpw (talk) 00:08, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

A blanket NO. does not build a consensus. Please build a consensus. -- Sleyece (talk) 20:41, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

• Comment: Sleyece, multiple editors, including myself, have expressed doubts concerning whether the few hours that Bush-41 spent as acting president are really noteworthy enough to warrant inclusion in the infobox. You have failed to build an adequate case for its inclusion and have not swayed my opinion. Drdpw (talk) 00:41, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm not trying to sway your opinion. I'm trying to build an Encyclopedia. -- Sleyece (talk) 00:51, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

• Comment Are any other users ready to add to the consensus on this issue? -- Sleyece (talk) 15:04, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

@Sleyece:, I see that you have again dismissed the objections of others and have unilaterally declared a consensus for adding acting president data to the infobox, which is not appropriate to say the least. Please revert your edit until and unless there is consensus to add the material to the infobox. Drdpw (talk) 05:16, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I'll add to the consensus that it does not belong in the box. It's an insignificant event in the life of Bush. Gnome de plume (talk) 17:25, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose – trivia doesn't belong in the infobox. Leave it for his VP section. I would also recommend you wait until we have a consensus, and not get yourself into an edit war Sleyece. Corky 17:50, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

I reckon my proposal isn't going to be adopted. Oh well. GoodDay (talk) 02:04, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2018

Place of death was in Houston, Texas not Kennebunkport, Maine, U.S. as stated.

Source can be found at https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/01/politics/george-h-w-bush-dead/index.html 99.6.157.197 (talk) 05:33, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done SounderBruce 06:15, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2018

Former U.S. President died at the age of 94 fox news 203.10.91.85 (talk) 05:37, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: SounderBruce 06:15, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2018

George W. Bush Sr died on September 30, 2018. BoB121isawesome (talk) 05:41, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: SounderBruce 06:15, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Removing Tarpley book from Further Reading section

I am removing this book from the Further Reading section:

* {{Cite book |last=Tarpley |first=Webster G.| authorlink = |author2=Chaitkin, Anton |title=George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography |origyear=1991|year=2004 |publisher=Executive Intelligence Review |location=Washington |isbn=0-930852-92-3}}

I do not think it merits inclusion; Any contrary opinions, let's discuss. KConWiki (talk) 05:46, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2018

President Bush died at his home in Houston, Texas, not in Kennebunkport, Maine

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/us/politics/george-hw-bush-dies.html?smid=tw-nytimes 69.209.231.11 (talk) 06:18, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

 Already fixed SounderBruce 07:54, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Parkinson's and anti-parkinsonian medication

Please discuss this here to avoid a pointless edit war. Specifically, the allegations with the women were during the time he was affected by Parkinson's. At least one incident was before his continued use of a wheelchair. I think that could be where another user got the impression the incidents which were apologized for happened before his having Parkinson's.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 06:46, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

His vascular version is caused by a series of small strokes rather than a degeneration of the brain cells. They are not usually treated with the same medications. May need to confirm if on any medication that potentially causes impulse control problems. 68.35.177.107 (talk) 09:02, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

The earliest of these incidents took place in the early 2000s. You can't blame his meds for things he did before he was taking them.Posters5 (talk)

I found an article: The l-dopa response in vascular parkinsonism It says that L-Dopa is the only medication, but it doesn't always work. Still, even if he was on no medication at all, vascular parkinsonism still has "diffuse white matter lesions and/or strategic subcortical infarcts in the MRI of the brain"

This page lists symptoms. It says that impulse control is a symptom for vascular parkinsonism, though it is more frequent in a different kind of parkinsonism. Other symptoms of vascular parkinsonism, cognitive impairment, including executive function, verbal memory and language.

On this basis I am going to re-add the sentence, but with a caveat about medication. We don't know if he was even on medication. It seems that it sometimes doesn't work for the vascular version.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 16:25, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

That's even worse because now you are indulging in idle speculation. 1) You were not his personal physician, and if you were, you shouldn't be editing this page at all. 2) You don't know when the disease started to affect him, so you can't just "explain" his behavior by attributing it to Parkinson's. 3) This is in dispute and still being discussed, so stop re-adding disputed content.Posters5 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:47, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

The content I recently added was substantially revised. I will revise it again and see if that is good enough. I think you are making personal inferences that were not in the edit.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 05:24, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

No, you're the one making unfounded inferences.Posters5 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:09, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Politician, Statesman, Diplomat?

I know calling someone a "statesman" is often seen as biased, but GHWB had so much experience in many fields (diplomacy, intelligence, national politics) that it seems to me he was more than solely a politician. I know there was a discussion like this after McCain died, which concluded to keep "politician" as the primary descriptor, but I think it is fairly accepted that GHWB was, per M-W Dictionary: 1 : one versed in the principles or art of government especially : one actively engaged in conducting the business of a government or in shaping its policies. 2 : a wise, skillful, and respected political leader. PerhapsXarb (talk) 23:58, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

"a wise, skillful, and respected political leader" Who respects him (or respected him)? His perceived mishandling of the Early 1990s recession in the United States, a constant rise in unemployement, and the subsequent jobless recovery had left Bush with a particularly poor reputation. Dimadick (talk) 08:29, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Alas, who respected Truman when he left? Nearly nobody, yet today he is widely respected. GHW Bush is generally seen as a decent, middle-tier president, next to JQ Adams and WH Taft in aggregate rankings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States). The respect is less important than the experience, though, since Bush had so many diplomatic and intelligence related positions as well as political ones. "Statesman" tends more to be used to refer to people involved in numerous high-ranking positions, including on an international level, e.g. Arthur Goldberg and Charles Evans Hughes in the US. Admittedly, it is usually used in a context of those people having lived some time ago, but this is more a constructed part of the word's definition and not an actual prerequisite of any sort. PerhapsXarb (talk) 03:01, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2018

In the 2016 election section, please change "Both Bushes emerged as frequent critics" to "Both George H. W. and George W. Bush emerged as frequent critics". Reason: there are three Bushes in the previous sentence. 2001:BB6:4708:9258:C834:B530:6ECE:9561 (talk) 08:58, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

 Already done Izno (talk) 15:57, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Further Reading

I just suggest for your bibliography/reading list near the end of the article: Borucki, Wesley B. (2011). Italic text George H.W. Bush: In Defense of Principle.' Hauppauge, NY: Nova Science Publishers. ISBN 978-1611221336.

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Izno (talk) 15:56, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Single term presidents

Introduction: "He was also one of two former presidents to have served only a single term in office as president, the other being Jimmy Carter." What about the other presidents who only served a single term? Ford, Hoover, Taft Kennedy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:F931:3600:92C:DF16:1A82:744C (talk) 13:21, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

They are not still alive, and the sentence seems to cover only those living. Dimadick (talk) 16:58, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

I removed that line. The IP is correct, as it read as though Bush & Carter were the only one-term former US presidents. Remember every former US president was alive at one time. GoodDay (talk) 18:27, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Replaced it with something more accurate - "Bush's death leaves Carter as the only living former one-term American president". GoodDay (talk) 18:35, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

That was my addition, and I missed an important word. It was supposed to say "At the time of his death, Bush was one of two living presidents to have served one term, the other being Jimmy Carter." I missed the word "living", hence where the problem was: Bush and Carter,as noted above, were not the only one term presidents. TomStar81 (Talk) 00:52, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Bush, still the longest lived US President

Perhaps the wording needs to be adjusted to say that Bush is (still) the longest lived US President. Carter would have to survive past March 2019, to take that mantle. GoodDay (talk) 14:22, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Godspeed President Bush cartoon

I noticed this page has been protected from vandalism. I was planning to add a paragraph there describing the newly-surfaced cartoon by Marshall Ramsey featuring George, Barbara, and Robin together in heaven, which would go like this: --SilSinn9821 (talk) 18:40, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Following his death, a cartoon titled Godspeed President Bush by Marshall Ramsey, of The Clarion-Ledger, started to circulate, showing George H.W. being greeted by his wife Barbara and their daughter Robin (who died of leukemia at age 3) upon his arrival to heaven on a TBM Avenger, the type of airplane he flew as a Navy pilot during World War II. The cartoon was a follow-up to an earlier Ramsey cartoon widely circulated after Barbara's death, where she too was greeted by Robin upon entering heaven.

References

I fail to see how a political cartoon with no political implications is worth mentioning. SounderBruce 19:22, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Agreed, yes both of the artist cartoons are appropriate and heartfelt, but hardly Encyclopedic. - FlightTime (open channel) 19:26, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

I mention it because Robin's Wikipedia article made mention of the April 2018 cartoon (before I joined Wikipedia) and thought it would be OK to mention the new December 2018 cartoon here, since I see no controversy in it. If there is a different Wikipedia article where this brief paragraph could be best placed (instead of this biographical article), please tell me. Thankee! --SilSinn9821 (talk) 19:41, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

It's not controversial, it treads on WP:NOTMEMORIAL. - FlightTime (open channel) 19:44, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

George H.W. Bush's rank while serving (USN)

Hi, I'm currently serving in the US Navy and noticed a discrepancy in George H.W. Bush's information page. He is listed as being a Lieutenant Junior Grade, which is an O-2 in the USN, but the page also lists him as an O-3, which is a Lieutenant. I don't personally know which rank he actually was, due to him serving and being a distinguished pilot/ aviator for 3ish years in the USN at wartime, I would guess he was probably an O-3. If someone could please rectify this that would be great, thanks.

SN Jolls, Jordan T. USN165.166.160.118 (talk) 20:03, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Copyright issue?

In the George H. W. Bush#World War II section, a paragraph or two seems to have been copied, with minor changes, from http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20100410115448/http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq10-1.htm (from source [4])
One example - Text in article:

• Bush waited for four hours in an inflated raft, while several fighters circled protectively overhead, until he was rescued by the submarine USS Finback, on lifeguard duty

Text in source:

• While Bush anxiously waited four hours in his inflated raft, several fighters circled protectively overhead until he was rescued by the lifeguard submarine, USS Finback

There are a other sentences copied with minor changes. I think this should this be rewritten. 2606:6000:CB87:F400:ADF7:D24C:3DAF:6857 (talk) 20:59, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Spin off the post-presidency section

Given Bush's long post-presidency I think it would make sense to create a spinoff article of that part of his career. This would allow for Wikipedia to cover his post-presidency in detail, while having a more concise summary on his main bio page. We have such articles for Ford, Carter, and Clinton. It would probably be a mistake to make major edits to this article right now (given the high level of interest/editing), but perhaps this could be done next month or so. Thoughts/interest? Orser67 (talk) 22:47, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't see the post-presidency section as that long in an article that is shorter already than most recent presidents. If content was added to other sections of this article pertaining to earlier periods of his life, which I attempted to do before the deletionists came around, I would be more open to the possibility. - Informant16 December 2, 2018

Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990

Bush signed the 1990 Clean Air Act amendments, which was the single greatest legislative advance for clean air in America. The 1990 CAA required control of industrial toxic emissions, which are defined in the 1990 CAA as one of the 188 chemicals that are suspected or known to be cancer-causing. This was the first time that the federal government regulated air pollution by focusing not only on reducing ambient concentrations of the six CAA criteria pollutants (e.g., lead, ozone, particulate matter, etc.) but instead by focusing on reducing of the number of tons of toxics emitted by pollution sources. For 'major sources' (those emitting more than 10 tons of any one toxic or 25 tons of a combination of toxics), they all had to install the latest and greatest controls to reducing emissions, under a program known as Maximum Achievable Control Technology. This was a sea-change in the nature of federal regulation of air pollutants in America, and the direct result of the 1990 CAA amendments has been much cleaner air throughout America over the last 25 years. George H W Bush was therefore the greatest pro-clean air environmentalist in American history.

2601:1C2:280:325C:1122:7984:D320:5BB8 (talk) 23:12, 1 December 2018 (UTC) Conde T. Cox Portland OR~

1) Language isn't neutral. 2) Presidents don't actually draft legislation (Congress does). 3) I'm pretty sure many environmentalists feel that Bush fell short with regards to achieving better air quality.Posters5 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:17, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 December 2018

Change "Poppy". to "Poppy." with the period punctuation INSIDE the quotation marks. Meteyer (talk) 00:48, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks for pointing that out, Meteyer.--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 04:21, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

The period should go outside the quotation using the "logical quotation" style described and prescribed by WP:Manual of Style#Punctuation inside or outside. (ping:1,2) --Pipetricker (talk) 09:51, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, Pipetricker, for fixing that. I never realized that was the case, I had just assumed that the guidelines were the same as the normal American English/British English ones; my apologies.--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 13:23, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 December 2018

you should remove the word of incumbent when listing president trump. 38.131.4.50 (talk) 01:35, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: he is the incumbent. See Merriam Webstel - "the holder of an office or ecclesiastical benefice" - Trump is the holder of the office of president. DannyS712 (talk) 02:00, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 December 2018

Dead people are not "former". We don't for example, refer to Cary Grant as a "former British-American actor" just because he is no longer acting. 14.2.163.201 (talk) 03:57, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Izno (talk) 04:41, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Protected edit request: Sexual misconduct allegations section and Parkinson's

In the Sexual misconduct allegations section, please remove references to parkinson's and drug medication. Those two sentences are original research by people trying to white knight for Bush. The referenced citations are about parkinson's in general and not about the disease's specific impact on him as an individual.Posters5 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:07, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Also please see discussion above.Posters5 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:09, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done, per WP:SYNTH. --Pipetricker (talk) 14:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you!Posters5 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)