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long-standing consensus and 3RR

I need to leave soon, but there is an issue regarding a long-standing consensus and 3RR at National Rifle Association (see Talk:National Rifle Association#Russia connection, justification examples of Timelines' inclusion in See also). It is my understanding that an long-standing edits stay during the Discussion phase of BRD until, and if, there is a new consensus. Is that not correct? X1\ (talk) 21:37, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

At this point you are at 4RR on that article also everyone else in the discussion on the talk page agrees there is a new consensus. Please do not engage in WP:FORUMSHOP. PackMecEng (talk) 21:40, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

My understanding has been a newly challenged consensus (in this particular case, a 320 day long consensus) item stays in place while the item is being discussed; so "reverting" to that condition is restoring (not counted as a Revert) to the proper conditions for Discussion. User PackMecEng is an involved editor with an opposing viewpoint on whether the item is to remain included. It is important for me to understand, in general, if my belief in this distinction is or is not correct. Can you point me in the correct direction if this is not the best place to find this "policy" clarification? X1\ (talk) 19:30, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Your understanding is half correct. A reversion associated with BRD is a reversion and not one of the 3RR exceptions here [[1]]. As for what version of the article should stand during the BRD cycle, that should be based on WP:consensus (and common sense). If during BRD a new consensus hasn't been formed then WP:NOCON applies and the article should go back to the last stable state. If a new consensus exists then the article can change even if the discussion is on going. Common sense should be applied if a continuation of the discussion may sway current consensus. As an example, the old consensus was A. A new local consensus has formed around B but additional editors are joining the discussion and starting to suggest option C. Even though A is no longer the consensus and B is the new current consensus, it's better to wait for additional input to see if C will be favored over B. This is particularly true in cases where the discussion very recent and it's likely additional voices will weigh in. Disclaimer - I'm an involved editor. My example was meant to be general and not meant to reflect the discussion in question. Springee (talk) 15:48, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

As presumably most readers/contributors to the Teahouse know, it is to seek outside opinions, that is why I came here. Springee is yet another involved/biased editor to the specific situation, that gave rise to a general question here from me. As I have not seen a comment from an un-involved editor, in the past few days, I will assume that implicitly I should seek my response else, maybe somewhere more specificly related to my question. X1\ (talk) 00:35, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

The fact that I said "Disclaimer - I'm an involved editor." indicated that I was an involved editor. Springee (talk) 02:40, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

@Springee: You should lead with WP:COI instead of after-the-fact disclaimer. RE: "Disclaimer - I'm an involved editor." PhanChavez (talk) 06:32, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@X1\: Exactly. That's what third opinion is for. I agree with User:PackMecEng's above comment to the effect of forum shopping. See my IMO (below); I think there's a relatively simple solution to this unless or until someone comes along and screws with the NRA page (controversial on its face; at large; at present; over the last few years). PhanChavez (talk) 06:32, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

IMO: 3O

I'm new here, please don't shoot me (just breaking the ice).

I tried reading through the whole thing on the NRA talk page, but the depth and content of arguments is insane. It is too involved in both relevant content/context/details, and semantics (MOS). I have not read through all of the various or whatever diffs or version history (that's just more insanity, and when I say "hajime," or "fight," you can start shadow-boxing with yourselves for all I care).

I think I have a reasonable grasp of the overall concept and issue at hand (not context or details or edit history).

So, being new here, I made a mistake a few days, or month ago, to the effect of posting in both 3O (Third Opinion) and WP:DRN at the same time, simply seeking resolution. I'm not good at talking obvious things in circles. At least things that are obvious to me, that I have my head wrapped around. (As those so involved in this issue are already up-to-par upon.)

My 3O is simply this: Some articles have a Controversy section. At present, I would suggest shunting the Maria Butina and Trump-Russia stuff between the existing (6) Criticism and (7) List of past and present leaders, such that you have something like:

• (6) Criticism
• (7) Controversy
  • (7.1) Maria Butina
  • (7.2) Trump-Russia
• (8) List of past and present leaders

Or, whatever. Something along these lines. I see definite context and relevance to the whole issue. But trying to shunt all of the crap on the talk page into the NRA article seems inappropriate. Thereabouts, the other 4-or-5 "timeline" articles are relevant. But the "See Also" section, as noted, doesn't need to be overloaded with a bunch of other stuff.

As a reader and consumer of information, if I want to drill-down to specific details about something in history, I want a clear and concise history and drill-down, not a sh*t fight over who's right about what, when, why or where. (Apologies for the profanity.)

Also, IMO, in good time, this stuff will work itself out as everyone decides the history they want to read. (However, in whatever form, it should be memorialized in past history/diffs. What people do to all of that long in the future, no one can say.)

I say: Re-start from a clean slate. Just add the Controversy section, and branch-off with relevant and contextual sub-sections, details, articles from there, instead of an overloaded "See Also." Just a series of sub-sections with headings and a link to full timelines of specific issues, etc. Describe relationships in-line within that article where necessary.

It doesn't all need to be shunted into the NRA article. Create stubs if necessary. Delete and consolidate later, if necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhanChavez (talk • contribs) 06:12, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

The MOS has nothing to do with semantics – in fact, it is the exact opposite of semantics. As for the rest of your overly convoluted and partly unintelligible post, this does appear to be forum shopping. If you are looking for a third opinion, do so at 3O. But be succinct. --bonadea contributions talk 06:56, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Bonadea: Please pay attention to the details. Your reply to the subsection here, my own addition to the OP is inappropriate. Maybe that's why you find it unintelligible? You didn't read the aforementioned information before IMO: 3O. The semantic details behind the Manual of Style and attempting to implement various information into the main article is a core issue. And it is a matter of semantics. If it is not a matter of semantics, then it is a matter of preference, aside from generally accepted guidelines such as MOS. That's where MOS comes in. It eliminates preference. If MOS is unclear, then shouldn't it be discussed (as an example) on the MOS talk page? Just saying. Again, things speak for themselves (KISS). PhanChavez (talk) 07:50, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Maybe I wasn't clear with my there is an issue question. I am not seeking an response responses to the article, but regarding long-standing consensus and 3RR.

If an item has long-standing consensus, and that item is deleted; it is my understanding that deletion is Bold, and if it is Reverted (as it was in the example article I gave), it is then Discussed, and stays Reverted until, if and when, a potentially new consensus is reached.

If that long-standing consensus, in this particular case, needs to be Reverted multiple times to maintain the proper situation of the B & R described above, it is a restoration, and not a violation of the (spirit of?) 3RR, since it is done in order to properly follow BRD.

To be clear, I am not seeking a 3O on the article's content, but on the proper process for BRD and long-standing consensus in relation to 3RR.

Would Wikipedia:Help desk or Wikipedia talk:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle or some other venue be more appropriate for the clarification I seek? X1\ (talk) 01:44, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect personal information

The site contains information about me personally which is incorrect. How can I best correct it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jwoch (talk • contribs) 20:30, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Jwoch. Please provide a link to the page and let us know what's wrong. Alternatively, you can email an administrator. I am an administrator willing to assist. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:15, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Your Talk page indicates you were blocked twice in 2018; not clear if the second time was ever resolved. Is this what you are asking about? David notMD (talk) 21:17, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

If so, recent edits by 109.150.34.80 may be relevant. --David Biddulph (talk) 21:40, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

What you know may be true (from your User page: " I was works manager and project manager for the Class 155 to Class 153 conversion."), but Wikipedia requires references. You were blocked in 2018 for adding content without references, and the evidence mentioned above suggests you have recently made similar edits as IP 109.150.34.80, i.e., not logged into your account. David notMD (talk) 23:11, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Links to some of the many previous attempts to explain to this editor the need for published reliable sources are available at WP:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive974#Editor repeatedly changing information to contradict sources. --David Biddulph (talk) 20:36, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Reference to wikipages in a different language.

Hello all,

I'm attempting to translate my first wikipage from English to Spanish and Portuguese. I notice that there are many WikiLinks that exist only in the English Version. Shall I keep the existing links to the English Wikipedia or should I just remove the links?

How does one link a Spanish Wikipage to an english wikilink?

Thanks, --Coel Jo (talk) 01:30, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello Coel Jo. Sources do not have to be in the same language as the article, although it's vastly preferable. If you cannot find good sources in the language of an article, you can keep the original sources.--Quisqualis (talk) 05:41, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

@Quisqualis: I believe that the OP was asking not about sources but about wikilinks. The enwiki guide about how to provide a wikilink to an article in another language's Wikipedia is at Help:Interlanguage links. From the language links in the left-hand toolbar, it appears that the eswiki equivalent of that help page is at es:Ayuda:Enlace interlingüístico. --David Biddulph (talk) 09:07, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

@Coel Jo: Since you're editing pages on Spanish and Portugues Wikipedia, help desks on those wikis will be a better place to get specific advice that applies to pages there. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 17:25, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

which source should i refer original or derived ?

http://www.wqow.com/story/18975219/arizona-man-killed-in-accident-on-i-94 ~ Van's Warped Tour 2012 Zach Booher pronounced dead, however the article mentions https://web.archive.org/web/20120712014248/http://www.wqow.com/story/18975219/arizona-man-killed-in-accident-on-i-94 ~ report from news station WQOW, the source is found in archive.org. should i both give as refer ? in similar situations is it correct to refer both of them ? Leela52452 (talk) 02:52, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello Leela52452 and welcome to the Teahouse. For non-contentious material, a single source is adequate. Archived sources are less prone to link rot.--Quisqualis (talk) 05:34, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

please excuse copy pasting messed up my query, the correct hyperlink which refers to archive version is https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/music/zach-booher-of-pop-punk-band-while-were-up-killed-in-car-accident-6607576 ~ "Van's Warped Tour 2012 Zach Booher pronounced dead" once again sorry, i will read and make notes about link rot Leela52452 (talk) 05:59, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Leela52452, An archived hyperlink will always begin with "https://web.archive.org", so the New Times link you just posted is not actually an archived link. It's quite good enough for now, though. There is a Wikipedia bot that I believe fixes rotten links: InternetArchiveBot.--Quisqualis (talk) 07:26, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Dmitry Orlov (banker)

I'd appreciate it if anybody can tell me what's yet to be done to remove 'multiple issues' and 'tone' tags from the article. Thanks, --VLu (talk) 05:09, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

It is written as a list of events. A reader might wonder if the article sources consist of a series of PR announcements. Is there no in-depth coverage of Orlov? Who did he interact with? What world events influenced him and his career? How is the world different due to his actions?--Quisqualis (talk) 05:30, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

VLu I'm letting the system know about my post above.--Quisqualis (talk) 05:32, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Need to create a page for Noni

Dear Sir/madam,

Is it possible to create a Wiki page for Noni manufactured and processed by a specific vendor for commercial use? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Totempole245 (talk • contribs) 08:14, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Totempole245. The simple answer is No. It will not be possible. You must be referring to Draft:Amrith Noni, and this would simply be promotion and unsubstantiated pushing of a herbal remedy as a genuine medicine. Until a medicinal product has been scientifically reviewed and proven to be efficacious in every way (i.e. it works), there will not be a page about it here. We have enhanced requirements for medicines (see WP:MEDREF). Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - but this is an encyclopaedia, not a place to highlight dubious products and herbal remedies. I do however commend you for including the FDA warning letter about false claims associated with this product. Unless the product itself starts killing people, and reliable sources start to write about the concerns over it, it would seem inappropriate to highlight its existence here, and there is no "need" to have a page about it here. (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~.) Kind regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 10:43, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

If there is evidence published in reputable science journals that Noni has health benefits, that information should be added to the Morinda citrifolia article rather than to noni grown in a specific place or by a specific company or processed in a specific way. Noni has been promoted worldwide as having health benefits. There are hundreds of articles in the scientific literature. HOWEVER, there are only a handful of published clinical trials - for different indications - and no published meta-analyses or systematic reviews. None of the claims mentioned in your draft ("Arthritis, Allergy, Asthma, high blood pressure, Cancer, Cold, Psoriasis, Indigestion, Hairfall, Recurrent head pain, Heart diseases, Urinary infections, low immunity and menstruation disorders in women.") are supported by the existing literature. David notMD (talk) 12:24, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Kanva Souharda Credit Co-operative Society limited

Dear Sir,

I have created a page in the above mentioned subject line, which highlights a huge fraud of a ponzi scheme by a well known entrepreneur. He has cheated thousands of pensiones, gullible investors in the pretext of providing high interests on deposits. Is such a page permissible in the interest of investors in Bengaluru. This is a 500 crores (70,100,000 USD). Please advise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vijaykumar245 (talk • contribs) 11:11, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Vijaykumar245 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You have submitted your draft for review. You will need to be patient, but it probably will not be accepted at this time, as it lacks the correct formatting and has others issues. I would suggest that you review Your First Article and use the new user tutorial to learn more about how Wikipedia works and what is expected of new articles. You should also review the Biographies of Living Persons policy; we must be very careful with how living people are written about. We cannot say someone committed a crime, for example, unless the matter has been heard by the legal system of your country and adjudicated.

The subject certainly seems like it could be notable- but Wikipedia is not concerned with helping investors or promoting any cause. That's what social media is for. 331dot (talk) 11:25, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

how to make and add an audio file

I've spent a long time unsuccessfully looking for help here and on commons.wikimedia.org. Help:Creation_and_usage_of_media_files#Audio sounds like the right place to find info, but it's written in a way that doesn't help even experienced editors. Nowhere does it say how to make a recording. Perhaps this is meant with "For encoding to Ogg Vorbis", but that is incomprehensible to most users and it links to http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Recommended_Ogg_Vorbis which is even less user friendly and doesn't even mention Android. --Espoo (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

@Espoo: Commons works with audio more, and their pages are a bit more helpful - Commons:Project:Audio ~~ OxonAlex - talk 12:39, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

how to fix id:Vonny Cornelia on Putri Bidadari

wikilink showing as id:Vonny Cornelia. should i remove it ? Leela52452 (talk) 13:04, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

In the time of my post, you don't need to fix it. It is already in the right place, as it identify id:Vonny Cornelia to Vonny Cornelia by now. Somebody might have fixed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DrifAssault (talk • contribs) 14:00, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

for me it did not changed. perhaps i am viewing old version. id:Vonny Cornelia shows content in foreign language, not english. in order to show english content, perhaps we have to use [[Vonny Cornellya]]. i have just observed that are other wikilinks with similar code. Leela52452 (talk) 01:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Leela52452 and DrifAssault: Welcome to the Teahouse! [[:id:Vonny Cornelia|Vonny Cornelia]] (as in the article now) produces a "soft" link to Indonesian WP, which shows blue but lands you at the Indonesian article id:Vonny Cornellya (by way of a redirect in Indonesian WP). Because the corresponding English article Vonny Cornellya exists, by all means replace the link with that one in the way you suggest. Narky Blert (talk) 14:10, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Edit removed from John Altobelli page.

On January 27th, I corrected incorrect information on John Altobelli's wiki page. Someone had edited to say he was the son of Joe Altobelli, former MLB player and manager. There was an article that I linked that said he wasn't, a link that featured a statement from Joe's former team that John was not related. I noticed that link and my edit have both been deleted, and I request clarification as to why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sportsfan1976 (talk • contribs) 13:22, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Sportsfan1976 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. In looking at the edit history of the article, I'm not entirely certain why it was removed, as there has been a lot of edits to that article. The best way for you to find out would be to post an inquiry on the article talk page. 331dot (talk) 14:02, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello Sportsfan1976, it was removed in this edit. The reason given was "I don't see how this is relevant". I think the point is that the issue was too minor to deserve inclusion. Being true or verified isn't always sufficient reason to include a piece of information in an article. More than that, you could link the diff I provided and ask at the article's talk page or the reverting user's talkpage, to further discuss the matter if you think your addition deserves to stay. Regards! Usedtobecool ☎️ 14:08, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Where can I request for change in wikipedia.org? (article number change)

Since the number of article have exceeded 6 million, while it shown 5994000+, where can I request number update? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DrifAssault (talk • contribs) 13:56, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

‎DrifAssault Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. This isn't something that you can "request", as it is updated automatically. The exact number of articles is actually difficult to determine, as articles can be merged, deleted, or created from existing redirects. 331dot (talk) 13:58, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

@DrifAssault: https://www.wikipedia.org/ copies the counts from meta:List of Wikipedias/Table. The latter is updated daily but not the former. phab:T128546 says "Optimally, we want to do this task every two weeks." The currently shown counts are from 13 January 2020. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:19, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

However at Template:About Wikipedia, the number is currently 6,005,191 - Arjayay (talk) 17:23, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Template:About Wikipedia and Main Page use the magic word {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} so they are automatically updated every time the page is rendered by the software (which is often but not at every page view). Magic words only work within the wiki itself so they cannot be used at https://www.wikipedia.org/ or meta:List of Wikipedias/Table. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Clarification of "AGF"

So, I looked at WP:AGF. and I think I understand it, but I want to clarify. Does that basically mean, you should assume an editor has good intent unless there is a lot of evidence that suggests otherwise? Thanks, King of Scorpions (talk) 17:08, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

King of Scorpions, Yes. Exactly that. You should assume that every editor is here to improve the encyclopedia, and every action is done to improve the encyclopedia, unless you have good evidence to the contrary. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 17:14, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

User page

I have another question. What is your user page for? I have a link to it in my sig, I think... King of Scorpions (talk) 17:09, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

King of Scorpions, it can be used to put information about yourself. See WP:UPYES for the details, but you generally have a fair bit of room to do what you want with it, as long as you are making good contributions elsewhere. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 17:12, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

You also don't have to have anything there at all. There is no requirement for a user to have a user page, but most do. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 17:13, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

On some projects, I'm aware of Wikidata, Babel language preferences (user boxes) on your user page have a technical effect, they determine which languages you see and can edit in the descriptions of Wikidata items.
If you plan to hop around between different Wikimedia projects (enwiki, commons, wikidata, mediawiki, etc.) you can create a global default user profile on meta, shown on all projects where you have no specific user page. Digging out an old example, because "should also work on projects with right-to-left scripts" is tricky: default profile on meta. –84.46.53.165 (talk) 08:02, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Making my first page

I have made a page for an app that a lot of people have been searching online.

Even I was searching for it online and there was not much information and only there website.

It has thousands of downloads and I have been doing research. It would be easier if people could go to the Wikipedia page and read about a fascinating application that will help many others. Instead of scrolling for pages for something on google.

The application is called WhatWeWant

I would be happy enough to donate if this page could be allowed.

Many thanks

James — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesF12345 (talk • contribs) 17:27, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

JamesF12345 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Whether you donate or not has no bearing on what will happen with your draft. The Foundation that collects the money appreciates any donations, but they do not involve themselves in day to day operations here.

I am sorry, but I had to delete your draft as it met the given criteria for speedy deletion. Wikipedia is not a place to merely tell about something or to promote something as you were doing. Wikipedia summarizes what independent reliable sources with significant coverage state about subjects that meet Wikipedia's special definition of notability. As you state that there isn't much online about this app, it likely does not merit an article at this time. 331dot (talk) 18:01, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Amrith Noni

Amrith Noni

I reviewed a sandbox and moved it to Draft:Amrith Noni, and then rejected it as contrary to the purpose of Wikipedia, because it appears to violate the policy on fringe science, and promotes what appears to be a questionable herbal remedy for which claims are made that do not satisfy medically reliable source guidelines. User:Totempole245 then emailed me and asked me to re-review it. They responded to my inquiry about conflict of interest by acknowledging a conflict of interest, and have made some changes to the draft. I do thank the editor for having the integrity to declare their conflict of interest. I see that they have made some changes to the draft that do not change my assessment. It still looks very questionable to me (to put it politely). Will another experienced editor however please look at the draft and offer an opinion? Robert McClenon (talk) 17:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

• Note: Wikipedia:Teahouse#Need to create a page for Noni —[AlanM1(talk)]— 17:49, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Utter garbage. My credentials: PhD MIT Nutritional Biochemistry and 2004-2019 consultant (now retired) to dietary supplement companies. There is no credible science - based on clinical trials or reviews of same - that noni has any health benefits. Basically, not proven. Furthermore, this particular brand has no science support to differentiate it from noni products in general. David notMD (talk) 18:47, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

"undo" button

When I look at a page's history, I see an "undo" button next to the most recent edit. Is it exactly what it sounds like, or is there more to it than that? Thanks, King of Scorpions (talk) 17:30, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

​It is exactly what it sounds like, clicking the button will open up an edit window that undoes the last edit. You still have to click on "Submit". By default, the editor will be notified that you undid their edit unless they have turned those off in preferences. – Thjarkur (talk) 17:44, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

@King of Scorpions: There should be an "undo" link for every edit and not just the most recent. The link undoes the clicked edit but not later edits. Sometimes you get "The edit could not be undone due to conflicting intermediate edits". You can write an edit summary after clicking "undo" to explain the reason. See more at Help:Reverting. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:55, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

If you do choose to Undo, you should provide an explanation at Edit summary (at bottom of the editing page). And if the first editor reverts your Undo, start a discussion on the article's Talk page. David notMD (talk) 18:48, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Citation

How to add citation in an article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jawale Kiran (talk • contribs) 17:50, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello Jawale Kiran. You add it in the article's text; the software then constructs the citation at the end of the article. See: WP:Citing sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quisqualis (talk • contribs) 17:54, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

speedy deletion

I just found a spammy draft article called Draft:Power Bottoms™. I also found out about speedy deletion tags, so could someone look at the draft and find out which tag applies, if any? Thanks, King of Scorpions (talk) 17:50, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and deleted the draft, King of Scorpions, which sounded like it was just someone trying to be funny by creating a hoax. For more information on speedy deletions, please read WP:CSD. 331dot (talk) 17:54, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

It was kinda funny, but I'm guessing it belongs somewhere else, and not an encyclopedia? Also, i think I will check it out... — Preceding unsigned comment added by King of Scorpions (talk • contribs) 17:56, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Dispute in Content

How do I contact the editor of a page with misleading or wrong information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1007:B1A9:375D:9CF4:1CD1:227C:AB42 (talk) 18:16, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

The easiest thing to do is comment on the article talk page to detail your concerns. You can also examine the edit history of the article and locate the name of whom you wish to contact, and do so on their user talk page. 331dot (talk) 18:23, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

You can see a list of editors by clicking on page history, next to the edit button in the top right of the page. However, there is no central editorial board here, and each article is edited by a large numbers of individuals. If you find factual inaccuracies, you can either post at the articles talk page (there is a link in the top left of the page) with the problem, or, if you know how, fix it yourself, although if there is a disagreement you should then go to the talk page - see wp:brd. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 18:24, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Very strange situation need help

I recently made a Wikipedia account my old acquaintance recently came back to the United States and she showed me she edits Wikipedia. So I decided to make an account today it looked interesting when she showed me, she recently texted me and said she got blocked. So I'm just trying to figure out is there any way to mark us to show we are two different people, we live in the same area. I like bodybuilding she doesn't she's into history but I'm kind of into World War II history she was editing through a computer I was going to continue editing through a MacBook I just wanted to ask before I get mistaken for her.Matt Morgen (talk) 20:01, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Hey Matt. This is probably not going to be easy to sort out without knowing who your friend is and who blocked her. GMG^talk 20:04, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Her name for Wikipedia is TheSunofman after the painting I looked her up under contributions. She was blooked by Bbb23 I came here first before I continue to find out how not to get blocked for her mistakes since we live in the same area.Matt Morgen (talk) 20:28, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

@Matt Morgen: Ooops! User:TheSunofman got blocked for WP:SOCKing, abusively using multiple accounts – see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/TheSunofman. That is a very serious offence on WP. Such blocks are not made lightly. Only a very few senior editors have the authority to investigate them. They don't go fishing on a "hmm maybe" basis, only if there is strong prima facie evidence.

If this account truly is your own independent account, you have nothing to fear. Happy editing! Narky Blert (talk) 23:50, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

As noted above, User:TheSunofman blocked while an investigation is being confirmed for the evidence of registering and using more than a dozen accounts, to which TheSun has admitted. If you were going to be using the same computer, there could be suspicion that you are her, trying to leap to a new account. I am concerned because your and her User pages have a similar grammatical style of lack of punctuation. Given that a lot of her edits pertained to WWII, I suggest you avoid that part of history entirely. David notMD (talk) 23:59, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

How does Wikipedia log edits/where can I confirm I've met the 10 edit criteria?

Hello,

I'm on my way to gaining permission to create an article. I see only one of several edits I made acknowledge in messages I've received from Wikipedia. Where do I confirm my edit count, and how will I know when I have official permission to create an article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Conor Thomas O'G (talk • contribs) 20:02, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Conor Thomas O'G, there are two criteria - 10 edits, and 4 days. You seem to have 8 edits, so theoretically need 2 more. However, you are strongly recommended to go through the wp:afc process for your first article, even if you don't technically have to.

Writing a new article from scratch isn't an easy task, and the reviewers at AFC are more suited to helping newcomers get articles right. A bad article submitted normally will likely get sent back as a draft, or deleted, with little useful feedback given - the volume of articles to review somewhat forces this. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 20:11, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Conor Thomas O'G You can look at your edit count by examining your contribution history- click "Contributions" in the upper right corner of the screen(on a computer). As OxonAlex quite correctly said- it is a good idea for any new user to use Articles for Creation to create and submit a draft for review by others before it is formally placed in the encyclopedia, even if you don't have to. Many new users don't realize that successfully writing a new article is the hardest task on Wikipedia. It's good to get some advice on the process first. You may want to read Your First Article and use the new user tutorial. 331dot (talk) 20:55, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Double redirect

Why not to delete the empty article redirect Relations between early Christianity and Judaism? and to clean redirect on History of early Christianity? I guess you have the redirects for merging or like that. PoetVeches (talk) 20:19, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

@PoetVeches: Thank you for visiting the Teahouse! The place to raise questions like this is WP:RFD – where ravening editors like myself will either tear you limb from limb, or agree with you, or fight to the death among themselves. Follow the instructions at WP:RFD#How to list a redirect for discussion.

All joking aside, RFD really is the best place to ask questions like this: 'D' stands for Discussion, not necessarily for Deletion. We're quite nice really. (I suspect that both those redirects might get the OK, but I'm not going to prejudge any discussion. It doesn't hurt to ask. Keeping good redirects, deleting bad redirects, and retargetting iffy redirects are all important. If no-one asks the question, no-one ever looks; so, if you have a doubt, ask the question.)

(BTW, those aren't WP:DOUBLEREDIRECTs. That term has the special meaning of A -> B -> C, which Wikimedia software doesn't like. They get corrected by bots into A -> C plus B -> C almost before you can blink; not always correctly.) Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 23:27, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

LoL, a good description of RFD, so far I survived a few excursions as IP. –84.46.53.165 (talk) 08:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Narky Blert:, tea was fantastic, my bot says thanks very much :) PoetVeches (talk) 13:49, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

NEEDS GUIDE

Hi, please i need a guide on how to cite apart from referencing--Pheritenom (talk) 20:26, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Pheritenom, welcome to the Teahouse. I'm a little uncertain what you want to do - adding inline citations maybe? We do have this help page: Referencing for Beginners. I find it pretty incomprehensible, so I wrote WP:EASYREFBEGIN which is my attempt to explain how to add inline citations using either WP:Source Editor or the Visual Editor. Let us know how you get on, or if you want more specific assistance. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:39, 28 January 2020 (UTC) 

Thanks User: Nick Moyes for the understanding applied to answering my confusing question. I have gone through your article about referencing and it was helpful. i would surely get back to you after applying the knowledge gotten, thanks once more --Pheritenom (talk) 03:03, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Reporting a possible glitch?

I noticed when I went on the Galactic Republic Wikipedia article that the flag and emblem were not on the page. So I checked to make sure that the images were not taken down, and they were not. So then I thought it might be something with my phone, since I was using Wikipedia on mobile device, but when I checked the Galactic Republic Wikipedia page on my computer, I discovered that the image for the flag and emblem were also not on the page. Maybe one of you can look and figure it out, because this has never happened to me before.BigRed606 (talk) 21:10, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

An editor changed the infobox to call up parameters image_flag and image_coat, but those parameters do not exist in Template:Infobox fictional organisation. --David Biddulph (talk) 21:20, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

 Done @BigRed606: I've reinstated them in the way they were before November last year. This might have been something you could just as effectively raised of the talk page of the article itself. But thanks for raising it here. Nick Moyes (talk) 21:27, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

I have removed the other unused parameters which the same editor added in the same group of edits. --David Biddulph (talk) 21:40, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

CS1 Error- Same date, differnet result.

I was editing the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality#Implications page, wanting to provide a few references for a section that had none. So, I found two, but one has a strange error with the date.

This one is getting a CS1 error, where it says that the access date is formatted incorrectly:

And This one isn't:

They look the same to me. What's the difference? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Argis113 (talk • contribs) 22:26, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

References

The error message is not referring to the access date but to the date. You have |date=Apr., 1979 , which isn't a valid format. --David Biddulph (talk) 22:30, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Can't login to Wiki

I started a page few years and now I want to go back and new information, but I no longer have access to the email I created my wiki account with. My question is: if I open a new account can I continue where I had left or do I need to start from the scratch? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.249.109.189 (talk) 22:35, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Do you know the username that goes with the account? Interstellarity (talk) 22:42, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

If you don't have access to the email used to recover your password, and do not remember your password, you will have to create a new account and identify it as a successor to your original account("I am User2, I previously used the account User1 but lost access to it") 331dot (talk) 22:42, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

To answer the question which you asked, if you saved a page from your previous account you will still be able to edit it from your new account. --David Biddulph (talk) 22:52, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

IP user: there is absolutely no connection between an account and any article. With few exceptions, any editor can edit any article, and any article can be edited by any editor. Nobody owns any article. --ColinFine (talk) 00:33, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Yobetit

HI -

I am trying to write a Wikipedia page for a company that I work for, however, it seems that it got rejected. Could someone help with this?

Thanks!

DM — Preceding unsigned comment added by David Mallia (talk • contribs) 22:54, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, David Mallia, and welcome to the Teahouse. The answer is probably that you stop trying to use Wikipedia for promotion and go and advertise your company somewhere else: see WP:OUT.

In more detail: Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, which contains neutrally written articles which summarise what has been reliably published about notable subjects. If your company meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability (basically, that several people, wholly unconnected with the company, have chosen to publish material about the company) then we could have an article about it. You are discouraged from creating the article, or editing it directly; and if you do so, you are required to make a declaration as a paid editor; the article should be based almost entirely on what people unconnected with the company have published about it, not what the company says or wants to say (including material issued by the company in press releases or interviews); and you will have no control over the contents of the article. --ColinFine (talk) 00:42, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

alphabetize rows in a table

how to alphabetize rows in a table — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parviz.Vakili.Poet (talk • contribs) 00:15, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

See Help:Sorting. --David Biddulph (talk) 00:17, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Link rot: How to change citation for dead link

I came across this "link rotted" reference in the article on Henry Morton Stanley: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/primary-resources/grant-stanley/. I checked for an archived copy on archive.org and several other archival sites but only found the dreaded 404 error. For now, I am going to edit it to say "citation needed" and put the old reference in the "reason" so I don't lose track of it.

Really, what is the proper thing to do? Is there any single "how to" page on Wikipedia? The more I learn, the more rabbit holes I fall down.

Batya7 (talk) 02:19, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Batya7. Pages get moved all the time which is why we like references to have title, publisher as well as the url. Then Google can be your friend. I googled '"American Experience" Henry Morton Stanley' and found the new location of the page. And I put it in the archive here in case it moves again. StarryGrandma (talk) 02:35, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi StarryGrandma. Thank you for your assistance. Duh, I did not think to google it. Will now update the reference. Should I cite the archived page? Batya7 (talk) 02:51, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Edit title of the page

How to edit the title of the wikipedia page?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeanliim (talk • contribs) 03:04, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Jeanliim. You can use the Move tab at the top of the page, once your account is confirmed. That will be when you have 10 edits and your account is 4 full days old.--Quisqualis (talk) 03:12, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Jeanliim. As Quisqualis explained above, you'll be able to WP:MOVE a page once your account has been WP:AUTOCONFIRMED; however, whether you should move an article to a new title is a different matter altogether. So, before you do so, I suggest you carefully read through Wikipedia:Moving a page#Before moving a page and follow the guidance given there. Changing the title of an article can often be something that's quite contentious; so , it might be better to be a little more WP:CAUTIOUS then WP:BOLD and at least proppse the page move first on the article's talk page to see what others think. If you make a good argument in favor of moving the page and a consensus is established to do so, most likely another more experienced editor will be happy to do. If you do, however, decide to be BOLD in moving the page, but are WP:REVERTed by another editor, please follow Wikipedia:Dispute resolution and discuss things on the article's talk page. Trying to repeatedly force through a page move without establishing a proper consensus to do so is likely going to be seen as edit warring and may lead to an administrator stepping in and taking action to prevent any further disruption, even if that means WP:BLOCKing some accounts. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:15, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

If you are asking about TripleOne Somerset (a Good article) I agree with Marchjuly that you first propose the name change on the Talk page of the article. David notMD (talk) 11:42, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

User Page information limit!

What information I can added in my user page?

As i have added all about myself in my user page. An administrator have deleted it.

Can you help me to understand what to add there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anzer Creation (talk • contribs) 04:01, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Anzer Creation. You can find more specific details in Wikipedia:User pages, particularly in the sections Wikipedia:User pages#What may I have in my user pages? and Wikipedia:User pages#What may I not have in my user pages?, but bascially a user page needs to primarily related to your activities on Wikipedia. Some personal information is generally considered OK when used to introduce yourself to other members of the Wikipedia community, but anything that appears to be an attempt to create an online profile or a de-facto article about something is usually not deemed appropriate per speedy deletion criterion U5. I'm not an administrtor; so, I cannot see what you had on your page and can only speak in generalities. There are some Teahouse hosts who are also administrators and maybe one of them can further clarify things. You can also ask for clarification from Spencer, the adminsitrator who deleted the page, by posting a message at User talk:Spencer. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:12, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Anzer Creation. I am an administrator so I was able to read your deleted userpage. It was a highly self-promotional and autobiographical page written to appear like an encyclopedia article. That is not the purpose of a user page. Instead, it is to present yourself as a Wikipedia editor. It is a place to tell your fellow editors a bit about what you have done and plan to do to improve the encyclopedia. Wikipedia is a project to build a free encyclopedia. It is not a social media site where people promote their careers. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:00, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Is this a good article?

I have written this article with references from news and blogs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jantroon_(Dhar)

Jantroon_(Dhar)

I had made firstly a draft today i was writing its talk page then suddenly it showed directly writing an article. I copied all my draft and added the same in above article.

I don't have any more online references for adding more details. But I personally have researched about the place..

Is there any mistakes in the article? Kindly fix it or let me know. - Anzer Ayoob (talk) 16:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anzer Creation (talk • contribs) 04:07, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

• Hello, Anzer Creation. Making a referenced article is already a good step, the one that new users usually fail to achieve (although the fourth reference is to a blog, hence not a good source - see WP:IRS for details). However, the article is not written from a neutral point of view: for example, one of the beautiful tourist destination[s] is opinion, not a fact you would find in an encyclopedia. The worst however is But the Govt has always ignored its development despites repeated requests. If govt. develop this place... which is something you would find in a local party electoral leaflet. I will change that soon.

Some light copyediting might be needed too, but that is not such a big deal. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 08:36, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Anzer Creation: I am concerned that you have uploaded to Wikimedia Commons a watermarked image, clearly marked as The Chenab Times, yet have claimed it has a Creative Commons licence. I find that highly unlikely, so will probably recommend it for deletion. Before I do, I'm giving you a chance to edit that image and add in a url to clearly demonstrate that the Chenab Times has definitely released it on a CC-BY-SA licence. I somehow doubt you will be able to do that. My attempt to reach their domain fails. (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~.) Nick Moyes (talk) 12:52, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Nick Moyes: , I am an administrator in Chenab Times, I have not any plain image file related to Jantroon, so my CT members sent me this image. Now I found the URL in The Chenab Times for this image which is https://twitter.com/thechenabtimes/status/939366961338761216 . As I am a new user so please don't delete that image file. I will try the procedure to add license url soon. Anzer Ayoob (talk) 13:20, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Anzer Creation: I am happy to give you some time, though I cannot promise that another editor will not see it and propose it for immediate deletion as a copyright violation. If you are an administrator of the Chenab Times, you presumably know that it's web domain cannot be reached at all, and also that someone sending in an image does not give you the right to release it under a free commercial licence, as you have done. The twitter link you supplied will not be sufficient, I'm afraid. Bear in mind that an image does not help convey notability, so it is not essential to the article. You could consider adding a map to the page instead. Nick Moyes (talk) 14:00, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: Yes, due to restrictions in Jammu and Kashmir, India. The Chenab Times had shut down it's website for some time six months ago. Till the situation goes normal here in J&K, we will restore it soon. I will update plain (without watermark) version of the image if i found in my laptop. I think plain images don't need URL which is captured by me or my CT team?

Map idea is also good but I am new user, I need time to learn about how to add accurate maps. -- Anzer Ayoob (talk) 15:17, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

• @Anzer Creation: for maps, see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Maps#Coordinate-referenced_map_templates which is probably what you should use. If you have the GPS coordinates of the area that's enough.

For the image: the biggest problem is not the watermark, which is a technical problem, but copyright, which is legal. With or without watermark, you cannot upload an image you do not have the rights to. Assuming you are indeed the "administrator" at the Chenab Times (we have no way to know that for sure over the internet), it still does not mean you have the legal authority to release the copyrights of the picture. Even if the "administrator" has ultimate authority for all legal decisions of the Chenab Times (~CEO or such), the copyright might still rest with the photographer who took it rather than the corporate entity. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 16:03, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Anzer Creation: To be clear, please tell us who created the picture and how they are related (employee, anonymous contributor, etc.). Are they willing to release it under the CC BY-SA license that is required, which basically means it can be modified and used for any purpose, including for profit? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 16:37, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1:, the picture is allowed to release under CC BY-SA by our original author of the picture while submitting it to The Chenab Times. Anybody can make fair use of pic. That pic is not for sale. -- Anzer Ayoob (talk) 16:43, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

• @Anzer Creation: Anyone can create an account on Wikipedia. We simply have no proof that you are a member of staff of the Chenab Times, let alone one authorized to release the picture as CC-BY-SA. I am going to nominate the picture for deletion on Commons; if you want to re-upload it, read WP:DCM carefully before trying to re-upload it, and follow the appropriate steps so that we can ensure you are not just a rando who grabbed the picture from the Chenab Times Twitter feed. (It would be nice to have the no-watermark picture, too.)

I am not doing this to spite you but out of important copyright concerns. The previous posters were lenient enough to not list the picture for deletion because they expected a valid licensing would be forthcoming; reading your posts, I have little confidence this will happen if the image is kept live. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 15:32, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Talk, Discussion Content: Indents vs. Bullet Points

While talking about or discussing something, responding to someone, what is the preferred method of communication?

Sometimes I seen an indent, designated with ":" (single) or "::" (double), or deeper indentation, and other times I see a bullet point with "*", which in combination seems a bit unclean (unclear) trying to read through things.

Is there a rhyme or reason for one or the other, or does it depend on individual preference? Is there some documentation to understand, otherwise?

IMO: Trying to read through various comments across topical conversations seems variegated. This question is only a learning question.

See examples below.

This is an indented comment. PhanChavez (talk) 04:47, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

And now I'm talking to myself with a doubly indented comment. PhanChavez (talk) 04:48, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

• But then someone comes along and uses a star bullet point instead. PhanChavez (talk) 04:48, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Now my stars are misaligned with the overall view of the discussion. PhanChavez (talk) 04:49, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

See WP:THREAD for the norm....that seen best to just try to follow along as some editors are not a fan of "Style" correction as per WP:TPOC. Personally I just use the original format in a post even if that changes throughout.--Moxy 🍁 04:57, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

In summary: As long as I keep it clean and don't negatively impact the overall discussion, I can clean or fix things up as I desire? (i.e. if I maintain proper nesting, don't corrupt things, I can change the style)? But don't screw with others' talk pages or their preferred style (there). And try to keep things clean in public forums (according to community preference, not my own view). Would this be a correct interpretation? And if different users mix bullet-points and indent style in community forum, I can clean-things-up as necessary or needed (so long as appropriate; nesting stays the same)? Or does that upset people (i.e. admins/bureaucrats)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhanChavez (talk • contribs) 06:42, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi PhanChavez. As someone who occasionally does some of the things describe above, it is something (at least in my opinion) allowed per things like WP:TPG#Fixing format errors, WP:TPG#Fixing layout errors, WP:AFDFORMAT, WP:LISTGAP, etc. In some cases (e.g. at formal discussion like an XfD discussion or an RFC) this can be helpful in keeping formatting consistent; in other cases, however, perhaps on an article talk page there might not be such a pressing need to do such a thing. So, like anything on Wikipedia, you can be WP:BOLD as long as you're careful to avoid any WP:REFACTOR#Concerns. If you start to be reverted or receive some serious resistence to such edits, then you'll need to decide if it's something in particular that you want to fight over. It's almost certain that edit warring over something like this is not going to be considered an exemption to 3RR, so you're going to have a hard time justifying repeatedly doing so if someone is hell bent of undoing your "improvements". There are some editors who don't care about this, but there are also editors who do; so, I wouldn't be so quick to start searching them out as part of some general cleanup of Wikipedia as a whole. If you're participating in a discussion or you comes across a particular discussion by chance and think such tweak will improve the flow and understanding of the discussion, then maybe others won't care. If, however, it's a contentous discussion, then just showing up out of the blue to tweak the indentation might generate some heat in your direction, aprticularly if it's on another editor's user talk page. Depending upon ow you look at things, the indentation used here at the Teahouse is often "technically" incorrect, but this is often overlooked for the sake of clarity since multiple replies to the same question indented to the same level often can be harder to read or distiguish by those asking questions (editors who often tend to be users unfamilair with things like WP:TPG, WP:INDENT or even WP:SIGN) than if each reply is indented to the different level.

This is just an observation and not meant as a criticism, but your account appears to be fairly new and thus you might find yourself experiencing more blowback from making these types of edits than perhaps a more experienced editor whose has a much more established history of improving content in the mainspace. That's not to say such a blowback would be justified, but people might be a little less tolerant of it if such cleanup appears to be your primary your focus when it comes to Wikipedia editing. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: Thank you for the detailed response. On the latter point of blowback, I'll keep that in mind. (What I was trying to get at is: If not inappropriate, such as on my own talkpage, I might put things in order and try to maintain consistent formatting to understand the flow of things. I find it easier this way. But I'll keep what you said in mind and try not to screw with others' preferred formatting and such.) Thanks. PhanChavez (talk) 07:55, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

You have much more leeway when it comes to posts added to your user talk page as explained in WP:BLANKING, but at the same time you should try to avoid changing any posts made by others to your user talk page in any manner that might change their meaning or intent as explained in WP:TPO. You also need to be aware of doing the same for your posts as explained in WP:REDACT. Finally, you might also want to keep in mind that the purpose of a user talk page is to make it easier for other Wikipedians to communicate with you about things related to the project; thus, a user talk page doesn't necessarily need to be held to the same high standards for content, spelling, grammar, etc. as an article is expected to be. So, if the way people are formatting their posts bothers you, you can politiely let them know or even "fix" the formatting; you can even create a "header" so to speak and add it to the top of your user talk page which sort of provides some guidance to those who decide to post on it. How rigorously you try and "enforce" such a thing is up to you, but if others start feeling that posting on your user talk page is more of a hassle than anything else because you're proofreading/correcting everything that everyone posts, your user talk page is probably going to be a very lonely place and whatever comments do end up being posted there might not generally be very friendly. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:05, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I added further indents to the above two comments

@PhanChavez: +1 to MarchJuly's description of the balance. I try not to reformat too much either, tending to do so only on non-user-talk pages, when it clearly improves readability, and there are only one or two responses that need it.

Here at the Teahouse, a number of us tend to use a modified indenting format that reflects which previous comment we are responding to. For example:

User1 posts a question like this.

User2 answers User1 here with indent of 1 (one more than User1's 0-indent).

User3 provides further information to User1 like this, using the same indent (1) as User2 did (one more than User1's 0-indent).

User4 comments on User3's post, using an indent of 2 (one more than User3's 1-indent).

User2 comments on User3's post, using an indent of 2 (one more than User3's 1-indent).

User5 comments on User4's post, using an indent of 3 (one more than User4's 2-indent).

This format has the added benefit or allowing more comments before you get too many colons to easily count or that take up all the screen space available, before someone has to {{Od}}. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 16:58, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Can a company create a Wikipedia page?

Hello I represent a PR company. My client wants to create a Wikipedia page about the company. Are they able to do so? Or does a page about them have to be written by others? Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.98.64.73 (talk) 08:33, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

• That is strongly discouraged, but allowed. However, there are multiple caveats:

1. it must be done in compliance with Wikipedia's terms of use regarding paid editing (which requires you to create an account and disclose who is paying for what page)
2. the client will not have any control about what the page says. In particular, it cannot be used for promotion; only raw, sourced facts will be allowed to stay. See Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing (which is written mostly with biographies in mind but applies here as well)
3. there is no guarantee the page will stay. No matter how hard you try, if the client's company is not "notable", the page will be deleted. "Notable" here has a specific meaning, which is not the colloquial "worthy of being noted" (subjective), but "has been talked/written about at length by multiple independent reliable sources". If such sources do not exist, do not even bother writing the page.

Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 08:56, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Please explain to your client that Wikipedia is not for promotion (which here means "telling the world about something"). Wikipedia is only interested in subjects which the world has already been told about, by people other than those close to the subject. --ColinFine (talk) 09:57, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Some companies don't realize that it is often a better expenditure of corporate money to improve their own web site, which they control, than to try to create a non-neutral web page on Wikipedia, which has a neutral point of view. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:32, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

In case it's not clear, please click on the blue links in the text above to see the details of the policies that the editors have summarized, especially WP:NOTPROMO (and the rest of that page). Wikipedia is especially incompatible with the purpose of a PR firm – it's just not what we're trying to do here. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 17:04, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

War thunder

is there a war thunder page?and if not pls add it THX :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romanmeurgey (talk • contribs) 10:20, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Romanmeurgey Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. There is an article called War Thunder, if that is what you are looking for. If you are using a computer, there is a search bar in the upper right corner of every page on Wikipedia that you can use to search for topics. 331dot (talk) 10:48, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Trustable

Hi everyone! I wanted to know how to become a trustable person on Wikipedia, any tips? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Norlopezlincuez (talk • contribs) 10:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Norlopezlincuez Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. The way to build trust with other editors is just like in real life- be honest, respond to the concerns of others, and do good work. 331dot (talk) 10:49, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

How can i get an article published and moved to live space

Hi My name is harry am a blogger and editor basically i do music related articles and post here in my country have been editing for years now though am not new to Wikipedia .

I was contacted by one of my college concerning an article he wrote concerning a very popular business crytocurrency trader and celebrity author here in my country as the article was marked for quick deletion in which i felt is unfair . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilsonharry454 (talk • contribs) 2020-01-29T10:57:00 (UTC)

Hello, Wilsonharry454. It's hard to say anything about the case since you haven't told us the name of the person who created the draft, or what it was called. But if was deleted in a speedy deletion, WP:SPEEDY tells you the criteria used for that, and how to appeal it. If it was one of the other deletion processes, look at WP:Deletion policy.

In general, creating a new article that gets accepted is one of the hardest tasks to do on Wikipedia. User:ian.thomson/Howto is a good summary of the steps it will take. --ColinFine (talk) 11:54, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi {U|Wilsonharry454}}. thanks for your note above. We are glad that you took the time to write. By the way, i wanted to ask, what country are you referring to? we have a whole set of timeline articles for individual articles for each year, e.g. 2020 in France, 2020 in Italy, 2020 in Turkey, etc etc. would you like to help us keep them up to date? I recommend that sometimes to some new editors, simply because it is a quick and easy way to start one's editing efforts here, by adding facts to one article in a simple fashion, and thereby getting a feel for Wikipedia's general tools, and how things work. I hope you'll feel free to give it a try. --Sm8900 (talk) 14:28, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Haiphong Maritime High School article w/exception of date copied from wn.com

whole article Haiphong Maritime High School copy pasted from https://wn.com/mobile/haiphong_maritime_high_school except date. please verify Leela52452 (talk) 11:52, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Leela52452. The Wikipedia article was created in 2011, and has been edited several times since. The text at wn.com seems to be the same as this version from last November, so it seems almost certain that the wn.com entry is a copy from Wikipedia. This would be perfectly legal if they attributed it, but since they haven't, wn.com are violating the licence. --ColinFine (talk) 12:03, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

More precisely, they copied this version from 2011. They are listed at Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks/VWXYZ#World News Network. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:10, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, ColinFine wow, i did not think that way. there is no date in hyperlink. is there any way to find info. Leela52452 (talk) 12:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Can you clarify that question? What do you mean by info?--Quisqualis (talk) 18:41, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I think they want to know how to see when a webpage was created, or how to discover its provenance 194.75.231.3 (talk) 12:12, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

P.S.

Please help me with edits i really want to help but everyone thinks that my edits are bad and useless.i just want to help and make wiki better i want to be a host but its not working — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romanmeurgey (talk • contribs) 14:11, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Most editors go through a learning curve wherein there edits are being reversed because they do not understand Wikipedia's rules. Creating a new article is an order of magnitude harder. There are tutorials and guidelines which I hope other editors will point out to you. David notMD (talk) 17:59, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I notice you made an edit "new update april 2020 please wait", which is more of a social media-type edit and not encyclopedic. Once you have read about what Wikipedia is and what its tone should be, you will know why you were reverted. See the beneficial links posted to your talk page.--Quisqualis (talk) 18:38, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

war thunder

because there are no people working on war thunder page can i please — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romanmeurgey (talk • contribs) 14:14, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

is it just me or most admins are bots Romanmeurgey (talk) 14:22, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Romanmeurgey, you can work on any page. Editors don't own any page (see wp:own), and it is typically for many editors to be working on a page at once. You are encouraged to wp:be bold in improving the encyclopedia.

Although there are bots with admin rights (see WP:ADMINBOT), there are very few adminbots, and any admins you've come across probably aren't bots. I'm not quite sure where you've got that impression from. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 14:29, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Also on admins being bots - there are several commonly used templates to pass information to users, that almost all editors involved in maintenance will use, to save writing out the same thing several times. This doesn't mean the user is a bot, just that they have used a templated message. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 14:36, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi again, Romanmeurgey. Despite my reverting your edits, you are very welcome to work on the that article and any others, provided you follow our guidelines such as verifiability, original research, citing sources and neutral point of view. You might find The Wikipedia Adventure useful to get to know about some of these. --ColinFine (talk) 15:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, the tags at the top of the War Thunder article say that it needs work, but the article itself dates back to 2013 and has had more than 1,000 edits by scores of editors. Including recently. Many of these may have it on their Watch list, so they get notified if any changes are made to the article. So your statement "because there are no people working on war thunder page can i please" not true. This does not mean you should not, only that sticking to Wikipedia's rules will help. David notMD (talk) 18:04, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

New article being written about notable Canadian Radio Host

Hi there, I'm about to write an article about a notable Canadian radio host. Article is factual and would love for it to not have a speedy deletion tag or proposed for deletion tag on it. Here's the article. I feel it's okay for Wikipedia as it's basic facts and references properly. Any thoughts on this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krisrobertson (talk • contribs) 14:28, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I've moved draft content to Draft:DJ Blitz - most speedy deletions tags won't be applied to drafts ~~ OxonAlex - talk 14:31, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Draft:DJ Blitz ready to be moved to mainspace

Hi there. I have just written an article about a notable Canadian radio host, and it's ready to be moved to mainspace. Would someone be able to do that for me? I'm not seeing a move button.

Someone please look into this Draft:DJ Blitz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krisrobertson (talk • contribs) 14:47, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Krisrobertson The 'Move' button is under the "more" tab at the top of the screen(if using a computer). It is strongly advised that anyone new at creating articles run it through Articles for Creation even if they don't technically need to. It's better to get feedback before your draft is in the encyclopedia instead of afterwards when it will be treated more critically. Creating a new article is the hardest task on Wikipedia, and it's good to have more eyes on it. 331dot (talk) 14:51, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Just to follow up on my last question. How do I move this into mainspace? I'm still unsure. Any assistance is much appreciated

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:DJ_Blitz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krisrobertson (talk • contribs) 14:53, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Krisrobertson Follow ups can be placed in the same section as your original question; click "edit" in the section header. As I said, that's strongly discouraged unless you have much experience in article creation. Do you have a particular need to place it in the encyclopedia right away? 331dot (talk) 14:59, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

No need do it right away. My worry right now, is that an admin of wikipedia moved my content to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:DJ_Blitz, but I don't actually own that draftspace. So it doesn't show that I'm the author — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krisrobertson (talk • contribs) 15:05, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Krisrobertson, I hadn't noticed that User:Krisrobertson/DJ Blitz (Radio Host) already existed when you copied the content here, hence I moved it to it's own page. Looking at it now, I've marked the duplicate page at draft:DJ Blitz for deletion. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 15:09, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

But the above advice still applies about moving to mainspace etc. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 15:10, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Oh ok! Thanks so much. But which name should I actually have my final article as for him? DJ Blitz or DJ Blitz (Radio Host). Cause I'm assuming it's the exact same thing and in the past maybe someone tried to create a page about him before. So I just need assistance with picking either DJ Blitz or DJ Blitz (Radio Host). Cheers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krisrobertson (talk • contribs) 15:15, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Because if I remove that "(Radio Host)" part of the article title, it will probably get flagged or something, because it was recently deleted. Your thoughts? Like, could I just stick to having it "DJ Blitz" instead? I don't know which title to pick

You don't need the career disambiguation unless there is another article by the same title. Avoiding being "flagged" is another reason to use Articles for Creation, so you find any problems first. 331dot (talk) 15:23, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hello, Krisrobertson. Since there is no other article called DJ Blitz, your draft should definitely be called just "DJ Blitz": we only put a disambiguating term in an article title if it is needed for distinctness. But I echo the other people who have strongly advised you not to move your draft to mainspace yourself, but to put it through review (by pasting {{subst:submit}} at the top - with the double curly brackets). But first, you need to establish DJ Blitz meets Wikipedia's standard of notability. I am unable to see the Winnipeg Free Press articles (because I'm in Europe), so if they are in depth discussions of DJ Blitz by somebody unconnected with him, they may establish his notability, but the ones I can read are just passing mentions, and do nothing to establish it. Unless you can find the multiple, independent, reliably published, in-depth pieces about him that are required to establish notability, then I am afraid that you are wasting your time working on an article about him. --ColinFine (talk) 15:36, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for feedback ColinFine (talk). The one thing I'm a little confused about, is that I've looked at a couple wikipedia pages that are currently live and in mainspace, and they seemed to have passed the notability test. However, it has like 1 reference, and I think the other has none. How did this pass a review from Wikipedia review staff, yet the DJ Blitz one that I wrote wouldn't? I included several reliable news sources that confirmed events, the philanthropy work, and also his job title. Is there another way on top of the news sources to demonstrate notability to Wikipedia? Because he is in fact a notable broadcaster. Perhaps since he works for Bell Media which has it's own news outlet, competing news stations wouldn't want to write competing articles on him? That might explain the absence of in depth articles on him online

Here are the 2 articles which would signify to me that the DJ Blitz one that I wrote could probably be considered for main space:River_East_Collegiate Now_or_Never_(radio_show). These both are very weak reference wise and in terms of notability, don't really demonstrate. Your thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krisrobertson (talk • contribs) 15:59, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

This part of the discussion could also include anyone who would like to weigh in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krisrobertson (talk • contribs) 16:04, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I'd like to weigh in, Krisrobertson. Wikipedia has an article called Other Stuff Exists. Standards were much lower when Wikipedia was emphasizing growth over quality. Since then, standards have been steadily tightened. The fact that articles exist which should be deleted is not a justification for more such articles. Each day, about 200 articles are deleted from Wikipedia by us volunteers. If articles for every person as WP:Notable as Blitz were to suddenly appear on Wikipedia, our article count would more than double, from 6,000,000 to 12,000,000, and Wikipedia's utility as an encyclopedia would be affected. I shudder to consider the added burden it would place on our volunteer editors. ColinFine is absolutely right. All of this raises the question of whether you might have a conflict of interest in writing an article about Blitz. Promotion of the non-notable is one of the main motivators for writing a Wikipedia article, and also one of the main factors keeping articles out of Wikipedia.--Quisqualis (talk) 16:35, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Company Page vs Product Page

Hello,

We have a product page (Croquet Project), and now we have a company (Croquet) that we need a page for. Wondering how to create a company page, or just combine the two. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.32.107.136 (talk) 16:13, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. Would you like to promote Croquet Project on Wikipedia so that the world can gain awareness of your company? Unfortunately, Wikipedia cannot support that goal, as it is not for promotion. Sorry, 46.32.107.136.--Quisqualis (talk) 16:39, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

There is an existing article Croquet Project. Is that you? A few problems going forward. Editors are individuals, so there should be no "We." Wikipedia is articles not pages, and "need" does not apply. More importantly, WP:PAID applies, meaning that you are to register an account, declare on the User page of that account your paid status, and rather than edit the article directly, request specific edits on the Talk page so that a non-connected editor can decide to implement or not. David notMD (talk) 18:13, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Article of the video game "Defend Them !"

Hi,
I have published yesterday an article about my own game ^{Draft:Defend Them !} with some basic infos, which releases in about 3 weeks on steam.
I have realized too late, that it needs an article on wikipedia to get a category on youtube...

How long would it take to be official?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Game Dev 666 (talk • contribs) 16:33, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Game Dev 666, I am sorry, but wikipedia only covers notable topics. Your game does not pass the notability rules for games and will not be published. moonythedwarf (Braden N.) 16:43, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Game Dev 666, thanks for your contribution, but promotion of your own game is not one of the purposes of Wikipedia. When your game is WP:Notable, people will be writing about you on their own. Please see WP:Your first article for the details on this process. --Quisqualis (talk) 16:46, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

You have not submitted your draft for AFC review, but you would be wasting your time to do so as you have no references to published reliable sources independent of the subject to show its notability. By saying that "it needs an article on wikipedia to get a category on youtube" you are confirming that your intention is to use Wikipedia for promotion, but that isn't the purpose of Wikipedia. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:47, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

In addition to the above, notice also that by uploading File:Defend_Them_!_Cover.jpg under a CC-BY-SA license you allowed everyone, everywhere to reuse it for free. Maybe you (and possibly your boss) are OK with this, or maybe you just clicked whatever was necessary to post it to your draft. If it is the latter, you might be able to request it be deleted to limit the spread (even though you cannot revoke the legal license, you can reduce the technical ease to obtain a copy). Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 16:49, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

It should be easier to find sources, now that you've made it possible for anyone in the entire world to use your cover art for whatever they want. Congratulations, Game Dev 666. John from Idegon (talk) 17:42, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

It was completely fine for me, that everyone can use this cover image, as long as they credit me and my company (it´s exactly what the license says) ... but ok, delete it and the article of my game too, it´s not notable, it´s just crap^^ Game Dev 666 18:09, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Game Dev 666: Though you might have been kidding, I just wanted to say that "!notable != crap". There is plenty of software in the world that may be the result of millions of man-hours of work (each) and yet still not be notable in the Wikipedia sense. I was a principal of a company that created such a product, and don't feel the least bit offended by it not being the subject of an article here. You shouldn't either. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 23:23, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1: Thanks, but I have understand now, what a wiki is ... it´s not a page for informations which a developer gives about his own products, but it´s a "fan-made" information site. If anyone loves a product, he/she/it creates an article on wikipedia, but never the developer by himself. If anytime anyone thinks my game needs an article on wikipedia, this one can create one, I have no problem with that, but I won´t do that anymore, I have better things to do than to be annoyed by some nags, I was completely fine with my "cover" picture, but others not, so, please delete it, it was my fault, I thought I can share my picture for free use with credit, but unfortunately no ... I never wanted getting advertised by wikipedia, but youtube gets their information of a game from wikipedia, is this my fault? no ... I have never thought about this part, but someone has asked me if I could create one and I tried, but I have failed, my community needs to be really ashamed about me, so, just remove the article about my game, it currently doesn't deserve one^^ If there are any press articles about my game available (which happens in about 3 weeks) and anyone thinks he/she/it needs to create a new article about my game, it´s completely fine for me, even if there are wrong informations available, it´s ok, the informations I have to add are nowhere mentioned because I´m only a developer, no press article. Game Dev 666 23:54, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Actually, Wikipedia is not a fan-made site. It's a real, standard-type online encyclopedia that is based on reliable, published sources. If the right publications were to write about you in depth, then an article about your game might be possible.--Quisqualis (talk) 01:57, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Is there a protocol for creating pages meant for entertainment?

I think I have seen pages somewhere that have comical intent. Is this true, or am I making it up? If it is true, I would appreciate sample articles, and the pertinent information. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mulstev (talk • contribs) 17:11, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Pages for comical intent exist at many places on the Web; however, the comical intent of Wikipedia is limited to wry remarks on pages which have an instructional or advisory nature. I hope this answers your question.--Quisqualis (talk) 17:31, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Mulstev, in short, Wikipedia does not host comical content. It's a serious encyclopedia.--Quisqualis (talk) 17:33, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Quisqualis, I am afraid that you are incorrect. WP:FUN. WP:GAFDEW. WP:WikiFauna, just to name a few. moonythedwarf (Braden N.) 17:36, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Mulstev. Please read Wikipedia:Humor for an overview. Encyclopedia articles should not be written humorously in Wikipedia's voice. However, there are many humorous Wikipedia essays available for your reading pleasure. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:37, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

seeking to improve my page's rating on the quality scale

Dear Teahouse

I have recently published my first Wikipedia page, Dietary Conservatism. It received a C-Class rating.

The C-Class rating is described in this way:

"Useful to a casual reader, but would not provide a complete picture for even a moderately detailed study."

I'm quite disappointed with this assessment. I thought I'd done a reasonable job on covering the subject. Clearly my idea about what is important to include on the subject differs from that of the reviewer(s). In the mind of the reviewer(s), there is plenty of room for improvement.

I don't understand what information is missing, or how it might be presented differently. Is there any way I can communicate with the reviewer(s), in the hope of improving the page, and maybe its rating?

best wishes, David Kelly — Preceding unsigned comment added by Para-eunoia (talk • contribs) 17:41, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

One reason your article may have that rating might be that it lacks categories (see note on article page). Also, I noticed that adjectives (surprising, remarkable) seemed gratuitous and may be affecting the article's tone. Other than that, not having read it, it seems to be of decent quality, and a C rating is not a disparaging assessment. It can be a reflection of the topic's relevance and interest to general readers.

I might suggest that you try to find sources tying DC to larger themes in ecology (i.e., topics which WP covers in longer and more numerous articles), rather than just drilling down into the details of DC. This would illustrate DC's significance to the reader.--Quisqualis (talk) 18:05, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Five of the 18 references are articles you authored or co-authored, and many of the factual statements are without referencing. I have added citation(s) needed. Over time, the expectations are that other editors will add/subtract content and the article will be improved. As the article creator, you should not upgrade rating. David notMD (talk) 18:38, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Ray the Film

Did Jamie Foxx play the piano and sang all the songs himself in the film RAY

86.30.198.8, you may ask this at the Reference desk in the Entertainment section, as the Teahouse is for discussion of editing articles.--Quisqualis (talk) 17:46, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

SAMUEL G HAVERMALE

MY NAME IS EMERY J HOVERMALE. SAMUEL IS MY 2ND COUSIN. I HAVE AN 11 PAGE WORD DOCUMENT I WOULD LIKE TO REPLACE IT WITH WHAT YOU NOW HAVE ON WIKI. UNFORTUNATELY I AM LEGALLY BLIND AND DEAF. I AM 84 YRS OLD AND I CANT FIGURE OUT HOW TO PUT MY DOCUMENT ON SAMUEL'S WIKI.THIS DOCUMENT HAS MANY SCOURERS BUT THE PERTINENT DATA CAME FROM ACTUAL HAVERMALE RECORDS. I WOULDN'T MIND IF SOMEONE JUST USED THE DATA AND ADD IT TO WIKI. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hovermale (talk • contribs) 17:48, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Hovermale: Unfortunately, Wikipedia depends on reliable sources for its information, and a personal biography written by a family member wouldn't meet that standard. Can you point to any online links where there might be coverage of Mr. Havermale? Courtesy link Samuel G. Havermale. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:14, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Hovermale. The article on your relative is not in need of any more detail, and we generally don't accept email submissions. Your visual problem creates a need for an exception. You may add the content of your Word document to your Talk page, where I will review it for relevance, use what I can, and then delete it (any other editors may do so as well while it is there). Note that, as more information on his life may or may not be what Wikipedia needs, if your intent is to preserve family history, we may not find your submission in keeping with the purposes of Wikipedia.--Quisqualis (talk) 18:24, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Quisqualis: Did you intend that to be User talk:Hovermale (instead of Talk:Hovermale, since there is no Hovermale in article space)? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 23:29, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I did. Unfortunately, I created Talk: Hovermale. If it isn't too much trouble, would you please try to move T:H to UT:H? I'm working on a different article atm. Thanks--Quisqualis (talk) 23:40, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Moved. --David Biddulph (talk) 04:32, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Creating page on living person with little online presence

Avrohom Yehoshua Soloveitchik is as you can see, well, barely a page at all, since he is a pretty prominent man in my community i wanted to create\upgrade the page, the problem is that there are barely any sources online about him, so even though i know many things about him i can hardly write a word. in such a case is there leniency in sourcing etc.? Stalwart Mugwump (talk) 18:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Stalwart Mugwump: Sources needn't be online, they need be published. See WP:SOURCES. --CiaPan (talk) 18:21, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Sources don't need to be online, provided that they have been published; see WP:PUBLISHED. --David Biddulph (talk) 18:24, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Stalwart Mugwump. I suggest that you also ask for assistance at Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism where you can find editors with experience in improving this type of article. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:24, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

How can I act if he ignores this warning?

In the article Balhae, the user User talk: Koraskadi tries to organize a revision war to block the balanced position of all three parties to the conflict in the article. I warned him about the inadmissibility of such behavior. and about that, he should improve the text if it is really poorly written and put patterns about the lack of sources if they really are not enough and not delete the text. How can I act if he ignores this warning? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Balhae&action=history Aek973 (talk) 18:36, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

That editor has previously been warned for this behavior and will be reported again.--Quisqualis (talk) 18:47, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I notice that you may be editing as an IP:185.17.129.116. If so, Aek973, this creates confusion, especially in cases like this. Do try for consistency in using one or the other (it's vastly preferred that you log in).

Also, please try to engage diplomatically with the other editor on the article's Talk page. Not being a Korea subject expert, I cannot tell what the contention is about.--Quisqualis (talk) 19:00, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it’s me - sometimes authorization flies, I don’t notice it, I’m editing it. And then I see that authorization has flown. But then I correct my signature. Making authorization Aek973 (talk) 19:15, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, and I just registered? I was wondering if this project was worth my time at all. And part of the edits made before.Aek973 (talk) 19:33, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

But I looked at the history of edits and read the edit page - this user does not accept any diplomacy - he tries to bring people to the conflict and then looks for a way to blame them for this conflict. He is overly motivated to uphold the position of his country. Instead of an equal and balanced approach.

I am not against the fact that the Korean position would be fully presented in the article, I support this. But I want the position of China and Russia to be fully presented as well. I want the article to finally become balanced and neutral in 12 years. Since there is no common position, the views of all three sides should be equally represented. I suppose it's neutral. Or do I don’t understand something about the concept of neutrality of this project? Aek973 (talk) 19:22, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

This is a discussion which should take place on the talk page of the article of the article. Just post your concerns there for all to see, and note that English speakers may have difficulty understanding what the problem is.--Quisqualis (talk) 01:44, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

User:Theroadislong joined to user User talk: Koraskadi in the same behavior - organizing a war of edits by unreasonably rolling back an entire section with added links instead of setting the template that additional links are required, or the template to check the authenticity of the source. He clearly acts in conjunction with the user User:Theroadislong. One year ago users User:Gnomsovet and User:Hatchiko They were blocked for joint actions. Obviously, that users User talk: Koraskadi and User:Theroadislong must be blocked for the same reason. Where do I go for this? Aek973 (talk) 05:25, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Stopping an edit war

In Wikipedia:Help desk There is a section called "2 questions that are related.". It is about an on-going edit war. How can I contact an administrator to help monitor the problem? Elijahandskip (talk) 19:39, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Elijahandskip, if you think there is an edit war that required admin intervention, then wp:anew is where you can report. However, this more of a last resort option. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 19:47, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

and be aware that if you go to the noticeboard, you can be found as the one at fault and sanctioned. You are advised to take the comment at the Help Desk in account. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 19:50, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

LIFE OF SAMUEL G HAVERMALE

I COPIED AND PASTED THE BIOGRAPHY OF SAMUEL G HAVERMALE AS INSTRUCTED BUT NY PICTURES DIDN'T COME WITH IT — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hovermale (talk • contribs)

Note for helpers: see WP:Teahouse#SAMUEL G HAVERMALE for context ~~ OxonAlex - talk 19:52, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

No, Hovermale, I'm afraid adding pictures to anywhere in Wikipedia is a two-stage process (first upload them, and then add them to an article); and questions of copyright make this even harder, and some images cannot in practice be used at all. I suggest you add a note to where you have uploaded the text listing what pictures you have, and where they come from. If they are old enough to be in the public domain, then they can be added easily; but if not, then we usually require that whoever holds the copyright (usually, the photographer) explicitly license them in a way appropriate to Wikipedia's needs. --ColinFine (talk) 23:33, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hovermale FWIW - I don't see any posted info on Talk:Samuel G. Havermale. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:21, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

My correction was reverted.

My first correction, on the Jim Keltner page, was reverted. Is that to check my accuracy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ken Skead (talk • contribs)

The edit summary of the reverted edit explains the reason your edit was reverted. A part of your edit was reverted because the mention of Keltner being included in 8 of 14 tracks was not included in the sourced material. When adding information to Wikipedia, please be sure to cite reliable sources. I also recommend reaching out to the editor who reverted the change if you are unsure of their reasoning so you can get more details/work it out with them. Orville^talk 21:12, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Banned from an IRC channel

I have been banned from one of the IRC channels, and would like to know if there's a way that I can get unbanned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IRC/wikipedia-en-help

--MikaelaArsenault (talk) 20:03, 29 January 2020 (UTC)MikaelaArsenault

MikaelaArsenault, this has been answered at the help desk. There isn't a reason to post on multiple pages, because it can lead to wasted time if people work out an answer you've already been given elsewhere. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 20:19, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

need help completing edit made to List of Anglo-Catholic churches in U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Anglo-Catholic_churches#United_States

Hello, I am the Interim Rector of All Saints' Episcopal Church in San Francisco, and yesterday added our church to the table on the page above.

This was my first time editing Wikipedia.

Today, All Saints' (the title) is missing. Haight-Ashbury and San Francisco is in the "parish" column. The self-identifying information has moved to the "image" column.

How can I fix the listing to be:

All Saints' (with link to website) in the "parish column" and move the other items over a column to the right.

Thank you,

RevbethF — Preceding unsigned comment added by RevbethF (talk • contribs) 20:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. Orville^talk 21:07, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

• Pinging RevbethF in case they aren't watching here. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 00:02, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

admin request - information from a deleted file

Right now I'm working on Commons to improve the image description page of File:F1 grenade DoD.jpg. The page says it was uploaded to en.wikipedia under the name "F1 grenae.JPG" by User:Megapixie.
Can an admin please retrieve the information from this file so that I can add these informations to the image description page. You can leave the information here, on my en.wikipedia talk page or my talk page on Commons.
Thank you for your help --D-Kuru (talk) 20:36, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@D-Kuru: There's a typo in the description. The original file was File:F1 grenade.JPG. There is really no more information than what is already in the comments. Uploaded 14:38, 30 July 2005. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 20:46, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Zzuuzz: Thanks for the fast help! --D-Kuru (talk) 20:50, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

COI editing question

Is it permissible to make small edit corrections to an article that you have COI with, for example, deleting an extra word, correcting a date, and adding a missing word in the name of a film? Thank you! LorriBrown (talk) 22:11, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@LorriBrown: If you've declared that WP:COI on your userpage, that would be fine. You could even note it briefly in any edit summary if you feel someone might take objection. I would say it's not worth the aggravation to place an edit request for minor typos, and the like. I know you've done that for bigger edits, so don't worry unduly about tiny corrections. If anyone challenges you, just accept it as the position of another editor - or refer them to the advice given to you here. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:27, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Nick Moyes Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by LorriBrown (talk • contribs) 23:28, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi LorriBrown. You can find a little more about this in WP:COIADVICE, but as Nick says above you should make sure to leave an edit summary explaining why. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:36, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Windows Communication Apps

I have no trouble citing http or https files, but have no idea of the syntax to cite a file such as: file:///C:/Users/great/AppData/Local/Packages/microsoft.windowscommunicationsapps_8wekyb3d8bbwe/LocalState/Files/S0/4/r491[1090].pdf DMBanks1 (talk) 23:39, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

DMBanks, unfortunately its not feasible to "cite" things like that. Wikipedia can only use other websites (http/https) as sources - its just not possible to cite things from your local computer (see file URI scheme). theinstantmatrix (talk) 00:03, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

This is not off my computer. I assume it is part of the MS web, so maybe its needs some prefix. If you copy it into a web search on any computer, this file produces a bus route map.DMBanks1 (talk) 00:21, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I put that into my address bar and into Google and got no results. "file:///C:/Users/" leads me to think it pertains to your computer only.--Quisqualis (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I searched my C: drive, but nothing came up. As far as I can tell, it exists only as an attachment to an email. Does the address bar also read all my email attachments when locating a file, or does opening an attachment (but not saving) leave a hidden duplicate even after the opened file is closed?DMBanks1 (talk) 02:25, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

DMBanks1, If it is an email attachment, then it does only exist on your computer, and shouldn't be used as a source here on Wikipedia. We can only use things like books, magazines, websites, that sort of thing. If you can find the file you want on the internet, then that can work. If you don't have a version that you can link to, providing author, title, publisher, etc. should be enough. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 04:28, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks. I am gradually grasping some of this tech stuff.DMBanks1 (talk) 14:50, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Reporting another glitch

I am reporting another glitch, this time concerning 2019–20 Wuhan coronavirus outbreak, see Talk:2019–20_Wuhan_coronavirus_outbreak#Reporting_something_wrong_with_template.BigRed606 (talk) 00:12, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Ps it only seems to occur on the mobile version.BigRed606 (talk) 00:13, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi BigRed606. It might be better for you to report any "glitches" you find at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) or maybe even on the talk page of the relevant template, etc. Of course, you might find someone here at the Teahouse who's able to sort things out, but you'll have a better chance of finding such a person at VPT of via the template's talk page. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:33, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Asking here is fine. Template talk pages usually have few watchers and views (this may be a current exception), and Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) is not for simple editing questions. Fixed by removing a class which doesn't display in mobile because navboxes are omitted there.[2] PrimeHunter (talk) 02:07, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Username Struggle

Hello. I am having trouble with username customization, as you can see by my mess of a signature. My current code is [[User: Shrekxy6|ShrekxyShrekxy64. Any ideas? [[User: Shrekxy6|ShrekxyShrekxy64 " 00:41, 30 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shrekxy64 (talk • contribs)

Hi Shrekxy64. I'm not sure what you want the code to do but every opening [[ needs a closing ]]. Is this OK: Shrekxy64. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:47, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

nl:Anne Marie Hoogland w/o any sources

this article does not have any source Leela52452 (talk) 02:01, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Leela52452. You will have to ask that question on the Dutch Wikipedia. The Teahouse can only provide advice about editing the English Wikipedia. Each language version of Wikipedia is run separately. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:23, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

are Kiandieri and Kianderi same ?

hello, i am confused after reading both articles description. Leela52452 (talk) 03:17, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Leela52452, Howdy hello, and welcome to the Teahouse! It does seem that they were about the same place, with slightly different spelling. I have redirected the longer article into the article with the infobox, as the infobox version at least had location data. The non-infobox version was in essence entirely unsourced, and thus its prose was not very useful. Its page history could be used to expand the main article, but I somewhat doubt its utility. Regrettably another African place article that exists, but is very hard to write about because the lack of good sources. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 04:24, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Link edits/deletion

There is a person listed on a page whose name links to another similarly-named person who is not the same individual. What is the best way to undo the link or have it removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidlow47 (talk • contribs) 07:20, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

The page is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_U.S._Figure_Skating_Championships ...and the person linked is Colleen McGuire, which links to Colleen L. McGuire, who is not the same person.

The 1983 US Figure SKating Championships page should not redirect to Colleen L. McGuire, US Army, who served beginning in 1979. The Colleen McGuire who competed in the 1983 US Figure Skating Championships in the Junior Dance division did so while she was still in high school in Branford, CT, and so could not have been serving in the US Military four years earlier, in 1979. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidlow47 (talk • contribs) 07:24, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Davidlow47. What you're describing is the main reason why articles with similar titles are disambiguated. How such a problem is resolved depends upon whether a Wikipedia article about Colleen McGuire the figure skater already exists or whether you intend to try and create such an article about her if it doesn't.

If the article already exists, then the way to fix the problem is to change the link so that it links to the correct article. If such an article article doesn't already exist, but you'd like to create one because you feel she's Wikipedia notable per either WP:BIO or WP:ATHLETE, then you should first create the article and then change the link as necessary. Since Colleen McGuire is what Wikipedia refers to as a WP:REDIRECT page, an assessment will need to be made as to whether one of the women is considered the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC or whether the articles about both women should be disambiguated. This can be a bit tricky so it might be better for you to work on a draft for an article about the figure skater as Draft:Colleen McGuire and then submit it to Wikipedia:Articles for creation for review; if the draft is accepted, then the AfC reviewer who does so will see that a redirect page already exists for that name and therefore the reviewer will sort things out with respect to disambiguation.

Finally, if no such article exists and you've got no intention of trying to create one, then the easiest thing to do would be to remove the link syntax so that her name is displayed as simple text and not a link. The way to do that would be to edit the article and look for [[Colleen McGuire]] and just remove the brackets around her name. Click "Show preview" to check that you've done it correctly, and then click "Publish changes" when you're ready to make the edit. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:48, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I've removed the incorrect link and added an internal comment about it at Special:Diff/938346896. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 17:08, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

@Davidlow47: Extremely gud catch, this should be on your highlight reel! I've lost count of the number of times I've seen e.g. Krishna appearing in a Bollywood film (I wonder how they can afford him). Earlier today, I came across James Mason as a writer for a kids' TV series aired in 2011 (somehow, I doubt it).

I agree with what has been said above. Two other things you can do. (1) Turn the bad link into a redlink by adding a parenthetical qualifier - if you're sure what the qualifier should be. (2) Perhaps better still: tag the bad link as {{disambiguation needed}}. You will have done all you need to flag the problem up, and friendly expert WikiGnomes will sooner or later solve it one way or another. In the meantime, readers can see there is a problem of some sort, and shouldn't be misled. Narky Blert (talk) 00:15, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Looking for Wikipedia writers

Hi I am part of a Saas company looking for wikipedia writers to write about our products. Anyone with writing experience in the IT field would be prefered. Looking forward to connecting on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anonymous4993 (talk • contribs) 07:41, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Anonymous4993. The first thing you probably should do is carefully read through Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) (in particular Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)#Products and services), Wikipedia:Conflict of interest, Wikipedia:The answer to life, the universe, and everything and then Wikipedia:Ownership of content to figure out if Wikipedia is the best place to try and have your company or its products written about, or if you'd be better off trying some other outlet. You will also need to understand and accept that your company will not have any direct editorial control over what's written and it will not be able use Wikipedia for any type of promotion. So, if you read through those pages and still want to try and find some who might be willing to create such an article, then you can try Wikipedia:Requested articles or perhaps asking at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Companies or at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Internet. If your company or its products are deemed Wikipedia notable, you might get lucky and find someone willing to create an article about it. It's also just possible that you may simply have to wait until someone decides to create an article on their own because they think the subject is something worth writing about. That probably sounds like a bit of a slam against your company, but it's really not intended to be. It's just that all editors are volunteers and thus tend to create content about subjects that interest them as opposed to literally being tasked by someone to create an article. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:08, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

A note on your website describes the restrictions if you or any other employee of the company decide to attempt to create the article(s) yourselves. David notMD (talk) 11:12, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I meant on your User page. David notMD (talk) 13:01, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

@David notMD: You meant on their User talk page → User talk:Anonymous4993#Managing a conflict of interest.
Pinging Anonymous4993 as well.
--CiaPan (talk)

More Source references in media player entry for "Comparison of audio player software"

Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen,

the entry Draft:Sayonara Player has received enhancement with lots of new sources for getting released. The german entry is also being updated.

Could somebody please check it?

The final target is to get this player included for listing it in Comparison of audio player software

Thank you very much for your help in advance.

Kind regards from Kassel in the middle of Germany

Dominic

Edited links acc. Nick Moyes comment below (Thanks to David notMD :)) Dominic2105 (talk) 12:53, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dominic2105 (talk • contribs) 09:29, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

@Dominic2105V: please check you links. The page doesn't exist under that url. Just supply a working (blue) wikilink and we can look at it. Nick Moyes (talk) 11:13, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Courtesy: here is a working link to the draft: Draft:Sayonara Player. David notMD (talk) 11:15, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

How do you cite a segment from a news network?

This is a super credible, news segment from CTV news that I'd like to use for a Wikipedia article I'm writing: https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1775334 I'm using that reference for this statement. DJ Blitz is a Manitoban radio host and DJ. He is currently a host on Virgin Radio Winnipeg. Do you use this template with curly brackets?: cite web |url= |title= |last= |first= |date= |website= |publisher= |access-date= |quote=

Also, can someone take a look at this real quick before I submit it for review? It's a short one: User:Krisrobertson/DJ Blitz Just want to make sure it's solid. It's a non biased article yet still demonstrates importance of notable person. Also, a link to their social media page http://www.facebook.com/djblitzwpg shows that they are currently verified on Facebook. This is a major indicator of notability. Is verification on social media considered as a factor for notability? I'm assuming so. Very few people are able to obtain the blue check

Krisrobertson (talk) 11:39, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Draft Review

Hello. I submitted this draft more than 3 months ago and it is still under review. I read somewhere to contact users on the related WikiProject page but no one there seems to focus on Turkish art or art galleries in general so, I didn't know who to contact. Please help! :)) Kilicsultan (talk) 13:52, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

As it says in the brown box on Draft:Yahşi Baraz, "Review waiting, please be patient. This may take 4 months or more, since drafts are reviewed in no specific order. There are 4,112 pending submissions waiting for review." Category:AfC pending submissions by age/3 months ago has 466 drafts at present. The number of reviewers who can read Turkish is limited, so it might help if you were to provide English translations of the relevant parts of your references. WP:There is no deadline. --David Biddulph (talk) 14:05, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

How to redirect?

Hello! I am in a dilemma about redirecting an article. It's showing me the following information's:

Symbol redirect arrow with gradient.svg This page is a redirect: From a page move: This is a redirect from a page that has been moved (renamed). This page was kept as a redirect to avoid breaking links, both internal and external, that may have been made to the old page name. When appropriate, protection levels are automatically sensed, described and categorized.

Name of the article given by me: Anjan Chowdhury (Square Group)

Can someone suggest me how to solve this issue. SSR1989 (talk) 16:38, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

There isn't an issue. That is created automatically when a page is moved. What question are you trying to ask? Do you want to use your sandbox for something else? If yes, just edit it and delete the redirect. - X201 (talk)

Help with Pending Changes

Hello. The article Mahavir Karna has 1 pending revision (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mahavir_Karna&oldid=937860521&diff=cur&diffonly=0), but for some reason, the pending changes review bar does not show up for me. Please help quickly, I do not know what to do. ωικιωαrrιorᑫᑫ1ᑫ 16:57, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

What do you for me! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaif wani (talk • contribs) 16:58, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

@Kaif wani: Sorry, your input is not helpful. I need help from someone who is actually willing to help me. ωικιωαrrιorᑫᑫ1ᑫ 17:02, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

@WikiWarrior9919: the page log says that page protection expired earlier today at 13:30 UTC, which explains why we see no pending changes to be reviewed. Both the change you linked above and a newer one show in the history. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 17:16, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

My Opinion!

give me advantage of some brief discourse — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaif wani (talk • contribs) 17:27, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

@Kaif wani: Please do not make disruptive edits like these on Wikipedia. Doing so could very likely result in the loss of editing privileges. ωικιωαrrιorᑫᑫ1ᑫ 17:50, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

reviving entry on political party in Georgia

Hi,

I tried to create the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Lelo_for_Georgia -- yes, it is a stump but previously similar beginnings went through, so that other people can enrich it. The party has been created by one of the most prominent businesspeople in the country. It has been covered in various outlets, including Al-Jazeera, and I added more references.

What can I do to revive the submission? It will not be perfect for sure, but wasn't the idea that one collaborates at Wikipedia, rather than a single person having to develop a fully fledged article?

And yes, I do not yet know how to tag lots of things, but I kind of feel Wikipedia should make it possible for people like me to contribute, too.

Thanks Hundnase (talk) 18:16, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Hundnase, and welcome to the Teahouse. Yes, Wikipedia does make it possible for people like you to contribute. But creating a new article is very difficult - not primarily for technical reasons, but because a) it takes a lot of work locating resources and summarising them; and b) because it is a way of working that many people are not used to. (That's why I always advise new users to spend a few weeks or months improving existing articles before they try it).

Many of English Wikipedia's six million articles were created a long time ago, when we were less careful about their quality than we are today. In an ideal world, all these inferior articles would have been improved or deleted by now. But Wikipedia is created by volunteers, who work on what they choose; so we end up with many many inferior articles. But we no longer accept articles that do not meet our current standards. Your draft can remain a draft, and you can edit it and invite other people to do so; but until it has adequate independent sources it will not get accepted as an article. --ColinFine (talk) 20:41, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

What makes a reference "independent"?

I have submitted an article about a company which has been declined because the subject was not considered notable. That submission had three references, and I have now found a fourth, to newspapers that published feature articles reporting exclusively on the company and its involvement in some newsworthy activity, and which included interviews with company executives, photos and details about the company. These were not press releases. They were not paid for by the company. Independent newspaper editors sent reporters to get a story. I have been told that these newspaper articles are not considered independent by Wiki editors. Is this true?DriverSafety (talk) 18:24, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi DriverSafety, and welcome to the Teahouse! You may want to read this short policy, which should give you an idea of what an independent source is! If this doesn't help, please feel free to tell me here and we can help you further! Thanks again! Puddleglum ^2.0 19:22, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

For the record: discussion continued on askers TP. Puddleglum ^2.0 21:04, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

reliable sources

Which of the following are reliable sources that can be used for satisfying notability:

legacy.com

prabook.com

encyclopedia.com

amazon.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.175.106.246 (talk • contribs) 19:22, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Well, Legacy.com is an online publisher of obituaries, prabook.com is a crowdsourced information site "about any person who ever lived" (from their FAQ), Encyclopedia.com is simply an aggregator of already-published information, and Amazon.com is a commercial website selling books and other things. So none of those can be used to show notability. If information is found in Encyclopedia.com, it can be tracked back to the original publisher – and that could very well be a source that indicates notability, but encyclopedia.com itself is not a source (just like Google, which has no content, only indices of content exising elsewhere). The others are either crowdsourced or commercial. --bonadea contributions talk 19:50, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

So if there is an obituary in legacy.com published in a local newspaper, which I cite, and another obituary that I found, can those 2 be used to create a notable article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.175.106.246 (talk) 19:55, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I think that an obituary would depend on several factors- obituaries are sometimes written by the deceased person prior to their death, or (more often) a family member. I don't think that would establish notability. 331dot (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

An obituary is sometimes written by a journalist at the newspaper, pretty equal to other articles from that paper. Recent discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Obituary. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:42, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

New York Times has obituaries written by newspaper staff and others paid-submitted. I have seen Wikipedia editors cite a NYTimes obit and not distinguish type. I would consider only the former as reliable sources. David notMD (talk) 22:01, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Obits might be suitable for citing basic facts, like dates and places of birth/death, but as to the original question, I don't think they are not typically usable for notability. It seems that an obit that is more in-depth, written by a neutral party, is generally about someone about whom there is significant coverage anyway, so there should be better sources out there for such a person. Who is the subject? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 00:10, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

How to make a Good Article.

I'm trying to make a good article by providing facts and more things. I cite things and currently it is a Work In Progress in my sandbox. I'm asking this to see if anyone has good tips on how to make it aesthetically pleasing, please message me back! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsunami307 (talk • contribs) 19:51, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

You don't have anything in your sandbox. You can find advice at WP:Your first article. When you have experience on editing Wikipedia, you can also read about good articles. --David Biddulph (talk) 19:59, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

As DB noted, "Good article" has a specific meaning within the rating system. My assumption is that you want to create a draft that will be accepted. Be aware that your User page is not a place to work on a draft. Use either your Sandbox or start a draft. David notMD (talk) 22:04, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

<style>

How does <style> work? Does it have to be like this or can <style> stand on its own? Helloimahumanbeing (talk) 20:52, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Waiting for the other article editors to take their turn answering

How many days should I wait for the other editors to take their turn in a dialogue I started on the talk page of Jabberwocky about putting a reference to the Muppet Show production of Jabberwocky? --AlainV (talk) 22:05, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

AlainV, Anytime you are having a discussion, you will have better participation if you use the Template:ping to let them know that you have replied. Most folks don't watch the pages where discussions are happening. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 22:49, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

AlainV, it depends on what you're waiting for. For instance, in the discussion at Talk:Jabberwocky, you don't need to wait for Anna to chime in before replying to David. However, if you were to form an agreement with David without input from Anna, you should probably ping her and wait a few days before going ahead and implementing it, unless the agreement is something that Anna would clearly not find controversial. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 23:27, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Is there a visual editor version of this ping? --AlainV (talk) 23:30, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

If you want to use the Insert menu option, the template's name is {{Ping}}, and then the parameter is the editor's username (without the User: prefix). _signed, Rosguill ^talk 23:33, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Citing Archival Sources

Can public archives be cited on Wikipedia and what is the correct format for citation? Stirpicult (talk) 23:23, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Headings

I’m newly signed on here. I’m having difficulties finding info re adding a “Notable People” heading to an existing page. I would greatly appreciate assistance specific to that and also, direction to info for learning more about creating/editing pages. Thank you!