Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing

WP:RD/C C #eee #f5f5f5 #eee #aaa #aaa #aaa #00f #00f #000 #00f computing Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing Computing WP:RD/C

Welcome to the computing reference desk. Want a faster answer? Main page: Help searching Wikipedia     How can I get my question answered? Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right). Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question. Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when. Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here. Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context. Note: We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice. We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate. We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point. We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need. Ready? Ask a new question! After reading the above, you may ask a new question by clicking here. How do I answer a question? Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

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November 21

information technology in 21st century

can anyone please tell about information technology in 21st century?220.224.121.1 (talk) 05:01, 21 November 2007 (UTC)kaki

Do your own homework. The reference desk will not give you answers for your homework, although we will try to help you out if there is a specific part of your homework you do not understand. Make an effort to show that you have tried solving it first. Asking for an 'essay' as an answer on the Science Desk is a bit of a give away. I will leave the question in case any kind hearted soul wants to point you in the right direction, but seriously, Do your own homework. Lanfear's Bane | t 10:58, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm a kind hearted soul (hmm, blushes) but I'm bu**ered if I'm going to do your homework without a bit of effort on your part. Have you done any searches? you're here posting this question so you have some handle on the technology. Now just take another step forward and use the IT that you're asking about. Richard Avery (talk) 15:55, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

A also am ma**arined if I'm going to help him unless he learns to ask properly. (Is this a british english thing?) --ffroth 01:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Here's a big hint: In the 21st century, information technology will rise up and destroy all human societies, replacing them with nothing but more information technology; it will be IT all the way up! Just keep going on that track and I'm sure the teacher will give you an A! --24.147.86.187 (talk) 17:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It is also a very vague (not to mention poorly worded) question. As a starting point, see the Wikipedia link on Information Technology, if you need anything more specific, we can help if you clearly explain what you are looking for but we will not do your homework for you, getting someone else to do it doesn't benefit you as you don't learn anything. GaryReggae (talk) 20:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

uninstall

i have 3 os in my pc.how do i uninstall vista.its a disgrace to technology and a waste of precious space.i dont have the cd. 2.am using suse linux dektop enterprise.am having trouble using it.am learning programming and am not sure how linux will asist.are the tutorials in linux? 3.when i boot on xp and open my computer,i see two cd drives yet i only have one.av checked the cables but its not going away.is it a virus.and i always receve a message prompting me that i have files waiting to be burned onto that drive —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.92.115 (talk) 11:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

• If you're sure you don't want anything on the hard drive partition which Vista is installed on, you can reformat the disk. There's plenty of tools to do this (QtParted/GParted for example).
• There are quite a few tutorials for Linux, but Linux is big and covers many software programs. Most questions can be answered by Google, any others could be answered by posting on a forum (like this reference desk, or this one). Also look around your local area for a Linux users' group who can help you. Linux has many programming tools - which one is best really depends what programing language you want to use.
• With your CD problem - if it's just a cosmetic problem, then leave it be. If you want to change it, the issue will probably be shown by going to control panel > system > click device manager button. Check the cd drives listed don't have yellow exclamation marks next to them - if they do, double click them and follow the advise shown (probably re-installing drivers).

--h2g2bob (talk) 23:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

In Linux, you can obliterate Vista by reformatting it's disk partition. The 'fdisk' program (run as root) will allow you view the partitions on that drive - and to change the partition ID from whatever Vista uses to (say) 0x83 - which is a Linux partition - then write that out to the hard drive. Then use 'mkfs' (again, as root) to make a file-system on that partition (this is "formatting" the disk in normal terms). Finally, add your new partition into /etc/fstab so that Linux will mount it (either on commmand or on startup). But PLEASE be very, very careful. Treat 'fdisk' and 'mkfs' with the kind of care you'd take with a loaded gun that's pointed at your foot! Either program can annihilate your entire system quite easily. So be REALLY sure you have the correct partition name/number and all of that stuff before you proceed - make sure that every file you care about is backed up before you start. Trust me - I've seen some pretty spectacular screwups with this pair of programs! SteveBaker (talk) 07:37, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

linux 2

what is the best video player for linux?what site can i use for cool linux softwares —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.92.115 (talk) 11:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Sourceforge.net and Freshmeat.net are both good for finding Linux programs.--droptone (talk) 13:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

VLC? There are licensing issues, so you probably won't find it in a Fedora/Debian/BSD repository --ffroth 21:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

See Comparison of media players and look at the ones that support Linux under operating system support. Usually the repository of your distribution is a good place to look for software. --Spoon! (talk) 05:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

CCCP recommends MPlayer for Linux. — Shinhan < talk > 11:05, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

sql

sqlبازگشتی —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.71.125.241 (talk) 13:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Does SQL help? or ar:لغة الاستعلامات البنيوية? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Linux keyboard problems

Hi! After running the following linux command: # dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg configuration and the subsequent configuration process I'm having problems with the keys that have a third character, for example, pressing AltGr+7 will not make the braces appear (Portuguese layout), which is a bit annoying for someone trying to program. What can I do? Also, while trying to install the audio device drivers, the graphic mode isn't running immediately after boot, instead, I must type $ startx. And I still don't have sound. How can I solve these problems? I'm a total linux disaster. Thanks! 217.129.241.186 (talk) 15:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, dpkg-reconfigure locales might solve the braces. You will need to specify that you're using a Poruguese layout. To boot into X, the easiest way is to install an X display manager. If you use GNOME, run apt-get install gdm. If you run KDE, run apt-get install kdm. --Kjoonlee 22:58, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll try that, thanks! But I already have a X manager, I use ubuntu, it just doesn't start after boot. I have to type startx. 217.129.241.186 (talk) 23:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

There should be an option in dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg asking about keyboard layout. You should just be able to type "pt" in the box. (example: here)

Or you could edit /etc/xorg.conf. As root, create a backup copy of xorg.conf. Edit the file, changing the appropriate line to Option "XkbLayout" "pt" There are more variants here you could try.

KDE also does some keyboard stuff in kcontrol, which might be worth looking at. --h2g2bob (talk) 23:27, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

If you don't know how to make X auto start you really should be using one of the distributions instead of trying to build your own (if that's what you're doing). --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:43, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm actually only programming the support for a basic file system. I'm not a computer science student, I study electronics & telecommunications.

217.129.241.186 (talk) 00:03, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Different sizes

What accounts for the difference between the full number of bytes and the amount indicated before the parenthesis in MB or GB and between the "size" and "size on disk" when clicking on properties of a folder in Windows Explorer? For example:

Location: C:\Here\and\there

Size: 2,21 GB (2.235.887.280 bytes)

Size on disk: 2,40 GB (2.581.848.064 bytes)

Contains 3.560 Files, 322 Folders

Thank you. Keria (talk) 16:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It has to do with how files are stored on a disk. The size represents the actual byte size of the files, whereas "size on disk" refers to how many clusters it takes up. Sometimes files take up more clusters than their physical byte size, or, in other words, don't completely fill up the space allotted to them. Defragmenting your drive can help reduce this a bit if it is extreme (it forces files to more efficiently use the clusters) but some degree of this is going to be inherently there in most file systems. It's kind of like saying that every file must be broken into chunks of 8 bytes (this is an arbitrarily and randomly chosen value here), but most files are not going to be perfectly divisible into chunks of 8 bytes, so the last chunk might only contain 1 byte or 2 byte, but is taking up an entire 8 byte chunk of the drive on the disk. At least, I think that's what it is like—someone correct me if I've got it wrong! --24.147.86.187 (talk) 17:02, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

So if I were to copy these files on a hardrive mp3 player which number should I take into account? Keria (talk) 17:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

You will need to take into account the first number (size), as well as how free space is distributed on your mp3 player. If your player is originally empty, the files are going to be copied to it pretty much in order, thus minimizing the amount of slack space. If you already have files on your mp3 player, and if you frequently delete some files and replace them with different files, then the free space on your mp3 player is probably fragmented, so the slack space problem is going to be more pronounced.

In practice, however, the effect is not going to be very noticeable, especially for mp3 files, which are fairly large in size. This only becomes a problem when you need to copy a great number of very small files. Hope this helps.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:59, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Fragmentation is part of it, but there's also filesystem overhead --ffroth 01:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

How can fragmentation have anything to do with cluster usage? Sorry but a file does not extend to another fragment until its first cluster block is fully used. You don't find files that have 3/4 used a cluster and 3/4 another one etc. De-fragmenting won't reduce the amount of info that is in clusters but not being used. The only way to improve that is to turn down the cluster size.--Dacium (talk) 01:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

• Why are do the numbers in bytes look different than the numbers in MB and GB?

Normal metric prefixes follow the pattern of 1 km = 1000 m; 1 Mm = 1000² m; 1 Gm = 1000³ m, and so on. When converting to a different prefix, you only have to move the decimal point but the significant digits stay the same or round up. (5678 m = 5.68 km)

Bytes however, don't follow the same rules. 1 KB = 1024 bytes; 1 MB = 1024² bytes; 1 GB = 1024³ bytes, and so on. When converting to a different prefix, the significant digits change. (5678 bytes = 5.54 KB) --Bavi H (talk) 10:07, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

• What's the difference between file size and size on disk?

There's a lot of correct and incorrect information here, so I'd like to try to clarify.

Although files have sizes in bytes, the space on a hard disk is divided into clusters. A cluster is a certain number of bytes in size, and can be different from one hard disk to the next, depending on how it is formatted. The way a hard disk is organized, a cluster is the smallest thing that can be used to store file data. When storing files, the disk always fills up a cluster before using another one. If a file size isn't an exact multiple of the cluster size, then the last cluster will have some left over space that's not part of the file, but still accounts for the "size on disk" number.

To find out the cluster size on your hard disk, just open Notepad, type in exactly one character, then save the file. If you look at the properties of that file in Explorer, you will see that the file size is 1 byte, but the size on disk will be the size of one cluster. On my hard disk, the cluster size is 4.00 KB (4096 bytes). So on my hard disk, any files from 1 to 4096 bytes in size will fit into one cluster and use 4096 bytes on the disk. Any files from 4097 to 8192 bytes in size will fit into two clusters and use 8192 bytes on the disk. And so on.

When you copy files from one disk to another disk with a different cluster size, you'd have to do calculations to figure out what the size on disk would be on the new disk. Generally, it's not worth bothering about becuase it's not much more than the total file size. So you usually can just pay attention to the file size when copying files. You asked about copying files to your MP3 player as an example. I don't have an MP3 player, but the Music folder on my hard disk contains 783 MP3 files (46 hours 20 minutes) and uses 3.08 GB. The difference between the total size on disk and total file size is only 1.47 MB, which is very roughly equivalent to the size of a 1 minute 30 second MP3 file of average quality.

When you are creating files on a disk, you only have to be concerned about wasting space if there are lots of small files that don't fill up very much of their last cluster. The most extreme example is if I had a lot of 1 byte files for some reason. Each file would use one cluster on the disk and so there'd be a lot of space on the disk being used up without storing any useful info. The next most extreme example is if I had a lot of 4097 byte files (the size of one cluster on my hard disk plus one byte). Each one of these files would use up two clusters each, but the second cluster would be mostly empty, so nearly half of the space the files use on disk wouldn't be storing anything useful. In general, most files will use more than 1 byte of their last cluster. And as your files get larger, the amount of space left over in the last cluster is less and less of something to worry about. --Bavi H (talk) 10:07, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

• Although it wasn't in your question, others have brought up fragmentation.

Fragmentation has nothing to do with how much space is used on the disk. A fragmented file just means its clusters aren't in order next to each other on the disk. Defragmenting a file doesn't change how much space is used on the disk, it just puts the clusters in order next to each other on the disk, so it can be read faster. Defragmenting a drive doesn't change the way clusters are used: When writing a file, a disk always fills a cluster before using another one. The distribution of free space doesn't affect how much space is used: The same number of free clusters are used during the writing of a certain size file no matter where the free clusters are located on the disk. --Bavi H (talk) 10:07, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Gtype and Sample Triggering Software

hello, I'm a training sound engineer. I've known about many theatre sound designers triggering sound effects from a Akai Sampler and PC using Gtype software. However, i run a mac platform. Any suggestions for ways to trigger sounds from a Mac using a MIDI or USB interface?

I don't really want to run bootcamp.

86.139.90.55 (talk) 18:58, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about sampling software at all, but I will say that it is extremely easy to run a virtualizer on OS X with an Intel processor. I run Parallels Desktop for a few things I do that only run on Windows, and it is a complete snap. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

coldfusion applications -- disable server-side caching per-page

If there is anyone on here who knows about ColdFusion, I need a way to disable server (and client) side caching of specific pages, without turning off caching entirely on the entire server. Is there a way to do this in a cf tag?

Alternatively, if anyone knows a better forum to ask this question please feel free to slap up a link. Gracias. NoClutter (talk) 19:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know CF specifically, but the general way to prevent the client from caching is to set a cache-control "nocache" line - see this -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

November 22

what does a speed of 54 kb/s means?

If you have a modem 54kb/s you just get 4-5 kb/s. Why do you call it 54kb/s if you only get 10% of it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr.K. (talk • contribs) 04:45, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

56kbps is the maximum theoretical speed over a conventional phone line- I believe it's capped by legislation in fact. It's by no means a guarantee. Also I think you're probably getting 4 or 5 KB/s, which is maybe 35kbps.. I doubt your ISP could get away with just 4 or 5 --ffroth 04:51, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, yep it is regulated, by the good old FCC </sarcasm> --ffroth 04:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

There is usually a confusion of the units. Modem speeds are usually advertised in kilobits per second. Transfer speeds are usually measured in kibibytes per second. If you have 54kbps (kilobits per second), that is 54 000 bps (bits per second), which is 6750 B/s (bytes per second), which is about 6.59 KiB/s (kibibytes per second). So 4 or 5 KiB/s is not that far off. --Spoon! (talk) 05:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

The kilo/kibi probably isn't very significant for a general approximation though- the main issue is that 56k means 56k bits per second, not 56KB/s --ffroth 06:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it's neither bits not bytes. The 'b' stands for 'baud'. What's more, 'baud' is a measure of the number of 'signalling events' per second - so you shouldn't be talking about kb/s - just kbaud. Because bytes are sent using a serial protocol, you'll generally need 10 signalling events to send one byte (depending on whether you are using 7 bits per byte or 8, one or two stop bits and with or without parity - the typical 8N1 setting needs 1 start bit, 8 data bits, no parity and 1 stop bit - 10 signalling events to send 8 bits). So at best, a 54kbaud modem sends 5.4 kbytes per second. However, that's only possible on an absolutely perfect quality phone line - which you'll almost never have. In practical terms, the modems at the two ends of the line have to negotiate a rate that allows both of them to get clean data through - and they do this by trying to send data at various set rates until they find one that works well that they can both cope with. This may be 28.8kbaud or 14.4kbaud or 9.8kbaud or worse. But most phone lines can manage 14.4 kbaud - which is 1.44 kbytes per second. So I'd say that if you are getting between 4kbytes and 5kbytes per second, you are doing very well. SteveBaker (talk) 07:21, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I thought with all-digital phone lines these days, you're basically guaranteed a consistent baud-byte --ffroth 07:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

A modem doesn't care whether the underlying transmission technology is digital or analog - it encodes binary data as audio - whether the phone service subsequently encodes the audio digitally or not is irrelevent to the modem. SteveBaker (talk) 19:52, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the old 500 baud phone-on-cups modems, but I'm fairly sure nowadays that fully-integrated modems can handshake with the phone system and degrade performace based on whether there are any slower analog segments between it and the destination --ffroth 21:29, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

You have a strange idea of how telephony works! All modems since about the 9800 variety have had the ability to negotiate the best data rate for the phone line quality - but that's not the same thing as using a digital phone line digitally. There is simply no way to do that through a standard telephone jack. Sure, if it's a digital line, you'll get better quality and higher data rates will result from the negotiation phase - but it's not because the modem somehow knows it's a digital phone line - it's because the audio quality is just generally better so the 'negotiation' process works better. There are all sorts of ugly phone-related problems that modems have to work around - even with a mostly digital connection. For example, when you talk into a telephone, it feels more natural if you can hear your own voice coming out of the speaker. (This is called 'side tone') Annoyingly, this feature is provided by the telephone exchange reflecting a little bit of your own audio back at you (kind of like an echo) - this has to happen even on digital phone lines. That 'echo' is really annoying for modem designers and they have to have all sorts of ikky 'echo cancellation' circuits in them so they can distinguish their own echo from the modem tones sent by the other computer. A truly digital solution (like DSL) avoids all of those problems - which is why DSL produces such vastly superior data rates down the exact same copper wires as regular telephony. SteveBaker (talk) 08:34, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

ITU-T V-Series Recommendations#Simultaneous transmission of data and other signals says the contrary, it says it's 56kbits/s. --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:45, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Contrary to me or steve? --ffroth 07:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Steve. --antilived^{T | C | G} 08:05, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe a baud is a singla signalling unit -- a tone, if you will. At 1200bps modem is actually a 600 baud modem, but each baud encodes two bits by being one of four different tones. However, as is obvious from the above discussion, there's been a lot of confusion about the term. --Mdwyer (talk) 17:36, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Ubuntu exim4 TLS problem

Hi, can anyone out there help me - I've got a mail server running Ubuntu and exim4 and I can't get TLS to work. I've tried setting it up as described in several howtos, but I can't get it to advertise STARTTLS :(. My configuration is default for ubuntu except as follows:

A file named 00_localconfig in the "conf.d/main" directory with the following:

   MAIN_TLS_ENABLE = "yes"
   SYSTEM_ALIASES_PIPE_TRANSPORT = address_pipe
   

and the debian/ubuntu config file update-exim4.conf.conf with the following (identifying features obfuscated with generic type info):

  # /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
  # 
  # Edit this file and /etc/mailname by hand and execute update-exim4.conf
  # yourself or use 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config'
  #
  # Please note that this is _not_ a dpkg-conffile and that automatic changes
  # to this file might happen. The code handling this will honor your local
  # changes, so this is usually fine, but will break local schemes that mess
  # around with multiple versions of the file.
  #
  # update-exim4.conf uses this file to determine variable values to replace
  # the DEBCONFsomethingDEBCONF strings in the configuration template files.
  #
  # Most settings found in here do have corresponding questions in the
  # Debconf configuration, but not all of them.
  #
  # This is a Debian specific file
   
  dc_eximconfig_configtype='internet'
  dc_other_hostnames='mail.domain.com : www.domain.com : domain.com '
  dc_local_interfaces=
  dc_readhost=
  dc_relay_domains=
  dc_minimaldns='false'
  dc_relay_nets='192.168.0.0/16'
  dc_smarthost=
  CFILEMODE='644'
  dc_use_split_config='true'
  dc_hide_mailname=
  dc_mailname_in_oh='true'

gnuTLS is also installed, and this:

   sudo swaks -a -tls -q EHLO -s localhost -au example@example.com -ap '<>'" 

gives me this:

   swaks -a -tls -q EHLO -s localhost -au example@example.com -ap '<>'
   === Trying localhost:25...
   === Connected to localhost.
   <-  220 mail.domain.com ESMTP Exim 4.62 Thu, 22 Nov 2007 20:30:05 +1100
    -> EHLO mail.domain.com
   <-  250-mail.domain.com Hello root at localhost [127.0.0.1]
   <-  250-SIZE 52428800
   <-  250-PIPELINING
   <-  250 HELP
   *** STARTTLS not supported
    -> QUIT
   <-  221 mail.domain.com closing connection
   === Connection closed with remote host.

Any suggestions of fixes, diagnostics or ways of acquiring effective divine intervention would be welcome!

--Psud (talk) 09:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and running this as root:

  exim4 -d

gives me:

   Exim version 4.62 uid=0 gid=0 pid=18767 D=fbb95cfd
   Berkeley DB: Sleepycat Software: Berkeley DB 4.3.29: (September  6, 2005)
   Support for: crypteq iconv() IPv6 PAM Perl GnuTLS move_frozen_messages Content_Scanning Old_Demime
   Lookups: lsearch wildlsearch nwildlsearch iplsearch cdb dbm dbmnz dnsdb dsearch ldap ldapdn ldapm mysql nis nis0 passwd pgsql
   Authenticators: cram_md5 cyrus_sasl plaintext spa
   Routers: accept dnslookup ipliteral iplookup manualroute queryprogram redirect
   Transports: appendfile/maildir/mailstore/mbx autoreply lmtp pipe smtp
   Fixed never_users: 0
   Size of off_t: 8
   changed uid/gid: forcing real = effective
     uid=0 gid=0 pid=18767
     auxiliary group list: <none>
   configuration file is /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated
   log selectors = 00000ffc 00089001
   cwd=/etc/exim4 2 args: exim4 -d
   trusted user
   admin user
   changed uid/gid: privilege not needed
     uid=106 gid=112 pid=18767
     auxiliary group list: <none>
   user name "root" extracted from gecos field "root"
   originator: uid=0 gid=0 login=root name=root
   sender address = root@domain.com
   Exim is a Mail Transfer Agent. It is normally called by Mail User Agents,
   not directly from a shell command line. Options and/or arguments control
   what it does when called. For a list of options, see the Exim documentation.  

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Psud (talk • contribs) 09:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know specifically about your problem, but perhaps you can read the Exim4 page on the Ubuntu community documentation. --Spoon! (talk) 02:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

It's cool. Problem seems to have sorted itself out when I threatened the system with reinstallation --Psud (talk) 13:38, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

HOW IS WEIQI RELATED TO CHESS

? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.186.9.2 (talk) 11:02, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

They are both board games of ancient Asian origin. I'm not aware of any closer relationship; the gameplay is completely different. Our article on weiqi (usually known in the west as Go) contains some comparison between the two.

(I'm not sure what this is doing on the computing reference desk.) TSP (talk) 14:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

IC's :What does 74(series) temperature range mean ?a

What does 74(series) temperature range mean ,and how is different from 54 series?

11:11, 22 November 2007 (UTC)59.92.139.115 (talk)shashank

The 7400 series article has a little bit on this, although it doesn't include any actual specs. --tcsetattr (talk / contribs) 19:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

5400 is military temp range -40 to +85 operating. Transistor-transistor logic —Preceding unsigned comment added by TreeSmiler (talk • contribs) 03:50, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

software programs

features and functions of benchmark —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.220.4.57 (talk) 12:51, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

`````` —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.220.4.57 (talk) 12:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Check out Benchmark (computing) and let us know if there are additional questions. --— Gadget850 (Ed) <sup>talk</sup> - 13:12, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Or a question in the first place.. --ffroth 21:26, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

computer

I want to know the object orientation that are present in microsoft access. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.206.136.70 (talk) 13:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

That's sort of a broad question. Access uses VBScript as its core scripting language and is pretty much as object orientated as Visual Basic 6.0 (not VB.NET) would be, though most of the database stuff is automatically instantiated so you don't have to do it manually. Do you have a more specific question? --24.147.86.187 (talk) 18:12, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

When running DOS programs(Clipper program) in windows xp screen shrinked to half why?

I am a Clipper Programmer. When I am running one of my Clipper programs in windows xp the usual full screen menu is shrinked to half screen. What is the reason for this distortion? What is the remedy?. Please help 59.88.73.103 (talk) 16:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)psnyasas

It's generally a bad idea to run DOS programmes under XP, try using DosBox instead. --antilived<sup>T | C | G</sup> 21:36, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

A full screen command prompt in Windows XP uses a text mode with more lines on the screen than the standard 25 lines from old DOS days. If this is what you are referring to, I found two alternative ways you can change it:

• Enter mode con: lines=25 at the command prompt.
• In the system menu, choose Properties, then click on the Layout tab. In the Screen Buffer Size section, enter the Height as 25. --Bavi H (talk) 03:48, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Text size problem

After a recent reinstall of Vista Home Premium, my IE7 is having trouble with wiki sites such as Wikipedia. All text is displayed at half the size of how it should be with double the amount of space between lines. This is not an issue relating to my text size or page zoom settings, and does not affect other browsers from what I can tell (Firefox works normally). Can anyone suggest a solution?Martin Leng (talk) 19:34, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

That sounds odd. Have you tried emptying your cache, first of all? --140.247.11.24 (talk) 19:57, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Have you tried not caring how much IE7 wants to screw itself up? Just stick with firefox.. --ffroth 21:26, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Laptop memory upgrade

Current configuration:

• Compaq Presario V5209US
• Hynix HYMP564S64BP6-Y5AB 0622

Memory that I plan to buy:

• Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 200-Pin DDR2 SO-DIMM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Notebook Memory
• 200-Pin DDR2 SO-DIMM
• KVR667D2K2SO/2GR
• Capacity: 2GB (2 x 1GB)
• Speed: DDR2 667 (PC2 5300)
• Cas Latency: 5
• Voltage: 1.8V
• ECC: No
• Buffered/Registered: Unbuffered
• Heat Spreader: No

Is the Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 200-Pin DDR2 SO-DIMM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Notebook Memory compatible with my laptop? -- Toytoy (talk) 21:48, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know for sure, but here is the Crucial.com page for your computer which describes the types of memory that are compatible with it. From what I can tell what you are describing seems identical to this RAM, which is compatible with your system, so it should work. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 02:57, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Microsoft Sam

How come it doesn't say 'soy' right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.66.155.90 (talk) 22:11, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

It's pretty old. Try typing in "soif". Lots of fun to be had with that glitch. NIRVANA2764 (talk) 02:12, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

And "crotch". I wish I had Microsoft Bob- Vista comes with stupid Microsoft Anna --ffroth

Zoy is a pretty good alternative for soy.  Stewy<sup>5714</sup>talk 23:13, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

November 23

Sony Ericsson K800i owners

Hi all!I wish to buy sony ericsson k800i and want to know a few questions from k800i owners (who has this phone) (1)I often save article from wikipedia into my hard disk and then transfer to my Nokia 6680.I have Netfront web browser install on my phone so problem in reading then.So MY QUESTION IS THAT whether on k800i, can I watch that sort of article or websites (Fire Fox --webpage-complete option during saving). (2)what is the current price of k800i in Saudi Arabia ...........thanks to all —Preceding unsigned comment added by Star33 2009 (talk • contribs) 07:42, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

It appears that the k800 uses the same browser as the Nokia. Maybe swapping the browser with something like Opera Mini (which is free by the way) would help? In regards to prices I'm sure google could help, but my colleges proxy is blocking that particular search TheGreatZorko (talk) 12:06, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I own a K800i and can't find a way to read pages from a memory card on the browser.

As for prices in Saudi Arabia, haven't a clue. Stifle (talk) 15:18, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Presuming you can run software from a memory card could you find out if Opera Mini can do this? I myself would be interested because my phones data rates are horrific (£1 ($2) per meg, bought in £4 ($8) chunks), but I cannot run programs from a memory stick.TheGreatZorko (talk) 15:38, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

name a website or database

name a website or database where i can find all the names of softwares from leading publishers all over the world along with information like publisher name,no.of versions released,platforms on which they work , etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.36.255.122 (talk) 07:56, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

That would be quite a huge list. Wikipedia has a whole bunch of lists for different types of software. Maybe THIS will help? TheGreatZorko (talk) 09:13, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Software for editing big text files?

I'm editing a giant text file, where doing certain repetitive things by hand would take hours. I need an app (Windows) that can remove the first X characters of each line, and organise lines by the date that starts each line (formatted "12 Feb 92", "17 Apr 07" etc). Is there anything like that around? Froglars the frog (talk) 09:54, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

You can process text files automatically into MS Access and use coding to cut up/play about with the text. I have previously used Excel to this effect but for files over 65,000 or so lines it becomes more awkward. Your best bet is to use a system where you can write a macro to strip out the information you require or chop the data into the way you want. For instance you could use find to locate the text-string, left/mid/right to get the information you require from that line or to chop it up. I suspect this way may be difficult unless you are good at vba, someone might have another idea though. Find/replace in word allows rather basic edits. ny156uk (talk) 10:12, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing really "automatic" about processing text files in Access; it relies completely on knowing VBA. If you know VBA, you could just as easily do it in other MS Office applications. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 16:43, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I use UltraEdit. I've edited 14M files and it has macros and sorting. --— Gadget850 (Ed) <sup>talk</sup> - 11:38, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Why not do it in two steps? 1. run a script that will cut the first X characters of each line, and 2. run another one that will sort it by date. You could do this quite easily in PHP if you have that installed, other languages too. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 16:43, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Using the Unix mentality, you could stick together some small tools in a pipeline. A pipeline doesn't care about the lenght of the content going throug, in general. Unix tools ARE available for Windows -- I recommend Cygwin. Or get some native tools from here. Anyway, the first step could be done with a command called "CUT". To remove the first eight characters:

  cut -c 9- <infile.txt >outfile.txt

That's from memory, so I might be wrong, but that should say "give me the characters from position 9 to the end of the line". Use of the unix SORT command may get you through the second part of your request, but in general dealing with date strings is not trivial. --Mdwyer (talk) 17:32, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

The OP specified a "Windows app", so I fear that using a Unix-like sort command will be out of the question. But if somehow it's an option: while it's true that dealing with date strings can be difficult, sort's -M option will be of interest. Once the first X characters have been stripped away, the lines could be sorted using

sort +2n +1M +0n

which should take care of everything except the Y2K wraparound problem. To fix that, I'd probably roll a little windowing algorithm in awk, along the lines of

awk '{if($3 < 10) $3 += 2000; else $3 += 1900; print}'

—Steve Summit (talk) 04:01, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

"OP specified a Windows app". Yes, I saw that, which is why I gave pointers to both Cygwin and native versions of the unix text tools. I know unix fans have a disturbing habit of telling windows users that their system sucks. I really try not to be that guy. But when someone asks me how to drive nails, I'm gonna suggest a hammer. When you ask me how to do automated editing of VERY large text files, I'm going to tell you to look into the unix textutils and using pipelines. I'm going to help you with some recommended command lines, and I'm going to help you find the right programs. If there's any time left, THEN I'll tell you that windows sucks. --Mdwyer (talk) 06:37, 24 November 2007 (UTC) (Who edits Wikipedia from a windows machine)

(Hey! Peace! No problem. I'm with you. [Well, except for the editing Wikipedia from a Windows machine part. :-) ] —Steve Summit (talk) 17:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC))

This isn't a matter of "Linux is better than Windows" (although it is) - this is a matter of "Commannd-line tools are better than pointsy-clicksy-GUI-crap" (which they are for this kind of problem). The problem with GUI-based tools (yes, even the ones that run under Linux) is that one tool has to be able to do the entire job by itself. If the author of that tool didn't think you need a 'cut-off-22-characters-then-sort-by-date' function then you're screwed. The Command-line approach (done the Unix way with pipes and such) lets you take a bunch of little tools and assemble them like Lego bricks to complete a more complex task. Just as you can build almost anything using 20 different kinds of Lego brick, you can build almost any processing pipeline out of the couple of hundred Unix tools in common use.

Also, if there is some problem your GUI tool can't handle, it's tough to fix it - even if you can program and the tool has some kind of plugin/scripting interface - which most don't. With command line tools, you can often create a little PERL or Python tool - maybe just a dozen lines of code - and use it as just one more Lego brick in your total solution. (Although if you aren't a programmer, neither approach works). Command-line tools can often (but not always) stream data through stages of this pipeline of little tools such that the entire file that you're working on (along with various 'undo' buffers and such) doesn't have to reside in memory all at once. For processing vast files, this is the only way to go.

So the command-line approach is ideal for this kind of problem...although it sucks for reading Wikipedia so you still need GUI tools. The other thing you need for the command line approach to work is a LOT of well-thought-out lightweight tools. (Things like 'cut' and 'sort' and 'awk'). This is where the Windows/DOS versus Linux thing kicks in. DOS's collection of command line tools is pathetic and their 'shell' (the thing you type your commands into) is horrible, it hasn't evolved since the days when it was a CP/M clone - which explains why command-line approaches have fallen from favor since the rise of Microsoft. Hence, if you are a Windows user and want to have a FULL set of tools at your fingertips, you need to install something better. Fortunately, the OpenSource community at GNU have provided the same shell and 99% of the lightweight command line tools that run under Linux in a form that work reasonably well under Windows. So - rather than bitching about Windows-verus-Linux, we need to be talking about GUI-versus-command-line (which is much less of a debate because you absolutely need both in order to work efficiently). Hence we need to tell Windows users to grab Cygwin and learn to use the power of the command line in the way Linux users have since before there was Linux.

SteveBaker (talk) 08:17, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure who's shouting at who here! (I presume we're all actually in heated agreement.)

When I wrote "I fear that using a Unix-like sort command will be out of the question", I was not expressing any doubts about the virtues of command-line solutions, or in any way scolding Mdwyer for suggesting one! The only reason I put those words there was to apologize to the original poster, who had asked for a "Windows app". Some people get bent out of shape when they ask you for one kind of answer and you, seemingly ignoring their request, give them a different one. In case the original poster was that kind of person, I felt bad about piling on to Mdwyer's not-quite-as-requested answer with additional not-quite-as-requested elaboration. That's all. —Steve Summit (talk) 17:48, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

No animosity, here. Sorry if it sounded that way. In any case, I wonder if the original poster found a solution to their problem? --Mdwyer (talk) 04:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey, Steve-o, what was that up there about "needing GUI tools for Wikipedia"? Come up to my place sometime, and let me show you the shell scripts I edit Wikipedia with. —Steve Summit (talk) 02:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Just because you can (and I quite believe it's possible) doesn't mean that you should. My point is that both styles of working have their benefits - while you might (maybe) solve the OP's problem with just the right GUI tool, the command-line is by far the best place to do that kind of thing. And while I'm sure you could cobble together a set of gadgets to let you edit Wiki's using command line tools, it's not the easiest way (and if you don't like that example - we can come up with plenty of others where the GUI is definitely the way to go). The CRUCIAL part of my message is that the Windows users who only use the GUI (and the handful of Unix/Linux users who only use the command-line) are each working with one hand tied behind their backs. So - I encourage Windows users to grab a copy of Cygwin and untie that other hand. Most Linux users are already out of the dark ages and freely intermix the two styles. SteveBaker (talk) 14:47, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

MS Excel: Lookup tables and conditional formulas

I have an Excel 2007 spreadsheet with details of all railway tickets in my collection. I record various details from each ticket, including the location at which it was issued: to do this, instead of typing the location name, I use a lookup table (VLOOKUP) with each issuing location's National Location Code (four-digit code unique to that location) and the location name alongside it. So, for example, I will enter "5268" in Column S, and "Brighton" will appear in Column R. All quite straightforward so far.

The problem is that some codes no longer uniquely identify one location - either because a station name has changed, or because a code from a defunct location has been reused at a different place. In every one of the 20-30 cases, I know the date on which the change took place. Is there any way in Excel of including a conditional formula within, or in conjunction with, the VLOOKUP formula in order to pick up the date of issue from the "Date" column, and, depending on this, return either the "old" or the "new" name as the result of the lookup?

For example, 6941 changed from "Lower Edmonton" to "Edmonton Green" on 28 September 1992. Rather than overtyping the result of the lookup formula in Column R with the correct version of the name, as I do now, I would like to create a formula such that "When Column S = 6941, if Column L < 28/09/1992 then return 'Lower Edmonton', otherwise return 'Edmonton Green'." Is this possible?

Thanks for any thoughts anybody can offer. Hassocks5489 (talk) 13:58, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that should be doable using nested IF functions. For example: =IF(VLOOKUP_COLUMN_S=6941,IF(VLOOKUP_COLUMN_L<29/09/1992,"Lower Edmonton","Edmonton Green"),"Edmonton Green") should work, where you substitute your VLOOKUPs as indicated. This one will return "Lower Edmonton" only if the two VLOOKUP conditionals evaluate to "TRUE" otherwise it will return "Edmonton Green" if one of them or both evaluate to "FALSE". --24.147.86.187 (talk) 22:49, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that was helpful. Hassocks5489 (talk) 19:03, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Faulty graphics card card!!!!! (So I'm told) technophobe pensioner

I foolishly allowed someone to try and download photos onto my toshiba laptop/ (l year old) they used their simm! Card. And lost all their photos. They left!!! I turned on computer a waterfall of colours ran down the screen and has been like it ever since - only cleared by clicking the mouse on the screen in the top right - left hand corner it carries on down the screen when iscroll down again and i have to re click mouse to enable me to read anthing —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.28.28.133 (talk) 19:49, 23 November 2007 (UTC) (change from upper-case shouting by 24.147.86.187 (talk))

You cannot imagine how sick it makes me to obey WP:BITE right now --ffroth 21:23, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

(Which in itself is a BITE - so you blew that one.) SteveBaker (talk) 20:37, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you missed the part where they pointed out that they weren't computer savvy and were a pensioner. Would that someday you won't be able to use the most modern technology when you are retired.--24.147.86.187 (talk) 22:52, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

It's clear they have trapped your computer in the Matrix. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 23:54, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

How could I help but guffaw seeing the words TECHNOPHOBE PENSIONER!!!! shouted at me from the subject line? --ffroth 00:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Aww someone lowercased it.. it was in all caps --ffroth 00:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

To answer the unasked question -- "how do you fix it?" Video cards are considered Field Replaceable Units, so you'd probably better off replacing the video card. However, any kind of damage caused by someone plugging in a peripheral could also have damaged other parts of the computer. I suggest you consult a computer technician who can run some basic tests. -- JSBillings 14:43, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

This is a laptop - not a deskside PC. That generally means that there is no way to replace a faulty graphics subsystem yourself. If it's only a year old - is it still under warranty? If so - send it off to be fixed by Toshiba (don't mention the SIMM card!). Repairing laptops is not a task for amateurs so if it's not under warranty you're going to need to pay someone to fix it (which will probably be Toshiba), most companies will give you a free repair cost estimate - which will give you a better way to decide what to do. I'm sceptical that plugging in a SIMM card (even a faulty one) would cause this kind of problem - the fault was probably just a coincidence - but if you were determined to at least attempt a do-it-yourself style fix, I guess I'd take a magnifying glass and a flashlight and see if I could see any bent pins down inside in the SIMM slot that might be shorting together. If so, GENTLY bending them apart might maybe fix it. However, that's a million-to-one long-shot. You might also visit the Toshiba web site and see if there are any notices about this kind of problem. They may also have free diagnostic software that you can download that might help pinpoint the problem. SteveBaker (talk) 20:37, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

It says "l year old" not "1 year old" --ffroth 23:39, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

...and this confuses you somehow? SteveBaker (talk) 07:47, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Roman numerals 1! Some old typewriters will use the O for a 0 and the l for a 1. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:37, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure it was some additional computer memory (SIMM) - because that would require the back to be opened to access the laptop's memory slots? Perhaps you mean a SIM card from a mobile phone. If that kind of card was inserted into one of the many slots on a laptop, it could short out something quite easily, damaging both the laptop and the SIM card. Astronaut (talk) 02:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

November 24

Restructuring GOTO programs

I found an old BASIC program lying around on my computer, and I was thinking of rewriting it in perl. But as with so many BASIC programs, it uses extensively the GOTO statement and is incredibly difficult to parse. Is there any way I could have the computer restructure, or just somehow analyze, it for me?  ›mysid (☎∆) 10:07, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Draw some flowcharts? Or if you post it here I'm sure someone would gladly help you. --antilived<sup>T | C | G</sup> 10:26, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

There are algorithms for automatically turning spaghetti code into structured code. Cristina Cifuentes's thesis has a nice overview (Chapter 6). But I suspect you're looking not for algorithms but for a ready-made implementation targeted at BASIC code, and in that case I have no idea. -- BenRG (talk) 13:23, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

If the program is well-structured -- that is, if the GOTO's all end up implementing familiar if/then/else and looping constructs -- it should be straightforward to translate into a structured language (once you can locate the familiar if/then/else and looping constructs in the wall-to-wall mass of code). But if the GOTO's are arbitrarily spaghettiesque -- as, in large unstructured programs, they all too often are -- it can be effectively impossible. Moreover, the tangled GOTO's in such a program usually end up implementing logic that is (a) ill-conceived (i.e. not what the user probably really wants, after all) and (b) buggy. So you may be better off figuring out what you want the program to do, and rewriting that part of it from scratch, rather than attempting any kind of translation (whether automated or manual). —Steve Summit (talk) 17:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I would say that if you intend to simply convert the program for the sake of using it 'as is' then your best bet is to leave the GOTO's alone. PERL appears to support goto's and gosub's too - and this will at least give you the best chance of ending up with a working program at the end. However, if you plan to expand the program - add more features - whatever - then you're going to have to really get to understand the thing - and in that case manually replacing the goto's is a good idea. As other have pointed out, most of the time goto's are being used because BASIC is such a primitive language and you can generally see that they are being used to stand in for more modern programming constructs - which makes it fairly easy to fix them as you are reading, translating and generally trying to understand the code. The other alternative (which I'm not seriously recommending) is an option I took many years ago I had been presented with a really AWFUL example of spaghetti programming in machine code for an obsolete microcontroller that I had to get working in under a week. In the end, I found it easier to write an emulator for the microcontroller in C++ than it was to translate the code! I hope you don't have to go that far! SteveBaker (talk) 20:04, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for all the answers. Drawing a flowchart (of the beginning of the program) indeed helped, as I was able to grasp the idea behind the very obscure usage of GOTOs. Just a snippet of the code so you get the picture of what I'm dealing with :) :

 ...
 260 IF r - 1 = 0 THEN 530
 ...
 530 IF s - 1 = 0 THEN 670
 ...
 670 IF r = h THEN 740
 ...
 740 IF s <> v THEN 760
 750 IF z = 1 THEN 780
 755 q = 1: GOTO 770
 760 IF w(r, s + 1) <> 0 THEN 780
 770 GOTO 910
 780 GOTO 1000
 ...
 1000 GOTO 210
 ...

›mysid (☎∆) 17:29, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

My condolences. That's what I was afraid of. "Arbitrarily spaghettiesque", with a vengeance!

(It still baffles me that people write code like this -- but they do, they do. Moreover, they think -- at a deep and unquestioned level-- that it has to be like this. They just don't know any other way. The code they learned from -- in the poorly-written textbooks they read, in the poorly-taught classes they took, in the poorly-written programs of their peers they looked at -- was all like this. Whenever you have a bug, you add a bit more special-cased code to patch around it, and if that involves another GOTO or three, well, there are already 2,643 of the damn things, so a few more won't hurt.

Worse still, some programmers come to believe that not only are computer programs necessarily tangled and complicated and hard to understand, but that they are uniquely smart enough to "understand" and maintain them. They feel sorry for the rest of us who throw up our hands and run away screaming when confronted with their gawdawful monstrosities -- we're obviously pitiful simpletons who'll never be Real Programmers. The notion that bugs might be fixed, or programs cleaned up, or features added, by simplifying and clarifying things, by removing duplicated code, by omitting needless gotos -- that notion is either heretical, or laughable, or unthinkable, or Just Plain Wrong.

Me, sometimes all I can say in this situation is, It doesn't have to be that way. But I'm never sure what to do about the programmers who don't get it. I keep hoping to find a way of explaining it to them, but perhaps their brains are just different.) —Steve Summit (talk) 18:02, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

It certainly doesn't. When I was doing my degree (back in 1975!), our coursework would get a score of ZERO if there was even one goto anywhere in the code (except of course in languages where it's unavoidable). Since then, I have never used a single GOTO (except of course in languages where it can't be avoided - but even then, GOTO's are only to be used in ways that mimic non-goto code paths such as in C). This hasn't given me even one moment of trouble. It's certainly as easy and efficient to avoid the little buggers - so one should.

As for that BASIC snippet, we don't really have enough code to go on. But in C, I suspect this would probably be something like this:

/*210*/  do
         {
/*260*/    if ( r - 1 != 0 ) { ... }
/*530*/    if ( s - 1 != 0 ) { ... }
/*670*/    if (   r   != h ) { ... }

/*740*/    if ( s == v )
           {
/*750*/      if ( z == 1 ) continue ;
/*755*/      q = 1 ;
             break ;
           }
/*760*/  } while ( w(r, s + 1) != 0 ) ;

But it's hard to know without seeing it all. Even with the GOTO's removed, the 'break' and 'continue' stuff speaks of some algorithmic ugliness - but it's certainly possible to write this code without GOTO's...and it's much clearer without them! SteveBaker (talk) 19:16, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no need to criticise use of gotos. In early versions of Basic you could only do one thing on your if condition, so anything complicated needed a goto. Also even in machine code today, the equivalent of jump is used. Sure you could use a macro in assembly language to overcome some of the goto mess. However goto is just a tool to make spaghetti code, not the reason for a mess in itself. Programmers today are quite capable of making a mess of code without using gotos. ANd the code snippet looks somewhat like a nested if, you need to make sure whether or not control flows from one test block into the next, or if indeed that matters. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:47, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I think you're slightly missing the point. In languages (like assembly code and early versions of BASIC, SNOBOL & Fortran) where you don't have a choice but to use 'GOTO'-like jumps, you can still choose to use those jumps in ways that mimic things that are missing in those languages like if/then/else, while, do/while, for, switch/case and subroutines - possibly with judicious use of early-return, break and continue. The trouble with GOTO is that it allows people (and positively ENCOURAGES others) to write truly spaghetti-like code - if people were disciplined then GOTO's wouldn't be anything like as big of a problem as they sadly tend to be. Restricting yourself to those uses of GOTO will get you code that people will find much easier to understand...doubly so if you comment them appropriately. Fortunately, languages without decent control constructs are finally being obsoleted by languages like C/C++, Java and Python that have decent command structures. Worse still, with modern CPU's (which have been agressively optimised for running C), goto's are really inefficient. They make optimisation much harder on the compiler - and are disasterous at runtime too. SteveBaker (talk) 06:51, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with something that I think SteveBaker said above. He speaks of "gotos" being disasterous at runtime but, in fact, most computer architectures still depend upon "goto" instructions at the level of the machine language. That is, all those fancy if-then-else structures that you write up at the level of C-code eventually become goto-laden spaghettis code when you get down to the machine level. Oh, it's often very nicely optimised spaghetti code, but spaghetti code it still is. About the only sop to structured programming that has made any inroads at the level of machine language is the ability to conditionally execute instructions. That is, on some architectures, rather than branch around an instruction (and thus disrupt the pipeline because of the execution of a branch), you can simply quash the execution of a single instruction based on some condition, thus turning it into a temporary no-op (which happily processes through the pipeline with no disruption).

It's because gotos still exist at the machine level that branch prediction gets so much attention from computer architects.

Atlant (talk) 17:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Time loop

My computer's clock is perpetually stuck between 6:04:21 PM and 7:04:20 PM and keeps resetting to the former when it reaches the latter. The date is also consistantly stuck at November 19, 2007. The problem arose when I had to mess with my computer's motherboard jumpers. Thoughts on fixing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SeizureDog (talk • contribs) 11:09, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... any temporal anomalies in your area recently? (*snicker*, "recently") --ffroth 23:37, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Check your shunt settings, obviously. Also, maybe completely clearing your CMOS and then letting your OS set the time? 68.39.174.238 (talk) 00:04, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

There are two possibilities, I think:

1. For some very strange reason(s), your computer is (a) two weeks, one day, 16 hours, 4 minutes, and 20 seconds late for this year's North American DST changeover and (b) repeating the "fall back" thing over and over.
2. Your name is Phil Connors, you're on assignment in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania, and you're almost 10 months late for Groundhog Day.

—Steve Summit (talk) 01:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

The CMOS battery could have failed (or accidentally been dislodged). Try downloading a new flash BIOS from the motherboard manufacturer's website, that may fix it. GaryReggae (talk) 13:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

collaboration

I do some collaborative work for my classes. I would like to find some way to easily compare revisions, in an easy to access format. I tried google Docs, but that was a pain. Would a wiki work? How would I set one up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by --Omnipotence407 (talk) 16:12, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

A wiki is a great way to do collaborative work and to compare revisions. As for setting one up, it depends on what type of wiki software you want to use. Wikipedia uses MediaWiki, which is probably the most advanced and worked-upon wiki software out there at the moment. You probably need to purchase server space if you don't already have some, and then install MediaWiki on it. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 16:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Would I be able to use a site like geocities or googlepages, or something like that?--Omnipotence407 (talk) 16:42, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

No, Mediawiki requires a server with MySQL and PHP support, which you'd either have to set up on a machine you controlled or would be a nontrivial cost to rent. Take a look at Comparison of wiki farms for some hosting options. But MediaWiki is written primarily to host Wikipedia and its siblings, and is probably overkill for a small project - so take a look at Comparison of wiki software for some simpler alternatives. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

It's true that Mediawiki is extremely powerful, but it's also ridiculously easy to set up. (My hat is off to whoever wrote its installation procedure.) As long as you have MySQL and PHP set up, installing Mediawiki is a no-brainer. I think it took me about 5 minutes on my laptop. (Happily, Mac OS X comes with PHP and MySQL out of the box.) —Steve Summit (talk) 17:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Why would you expect it to be difficult to set up? There's nothing in the installation procedure that's unusual for a PHP app- you just run the install script to build databases, and go on with the config. Granted it doesn't make you configure it, but you want to anyway --ffroth 02:52, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

And note that "non-trivial" can be less than $10 a month (paid in advance). Server space is relatively cheap as far as computer things go. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 19:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

The expense (if any) is only in getting access to a computer on the internet (which might be a computer on your internal network if you only need access within the school/college). All of the software you need is OpenSourced. Hence you have to install MySQL and make sure that the web server software you are using (Apache say) is configured to support PHP. Then MediaWiki itself is extremely easy to install and works like a dream. Yes, it's fully-featured - but that doesn't make it hard to set up - so you might as well go with the best, even if you don't need all of the bells and whistles. One huge benefit of using MediaWiki instead of one of the others is that the steamroller success of Wikipedia means that there is vastly more expertise out there for MediaWiki than for the other Wiki platforms. If you are used to MediaWiki, the others (such as TWiki) seem amazingly primitive by comparison. SteveBaker (talk) 19:46, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll say. We've got a WikkiTikkiTavi installation at work -- nobody uses it. One of these days I have to figure out how to pour its database into Midiawiki's. —Steve Summit (talk) 20:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

So for server space I need to buy hardware? Am I able to just get free or cheap web space? For some reason, im easily confused on this subject.--Omnipotence407 (talk) 22:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

You need to have access to a computer that has an always-on connection to the Internet and which can run this software 24/7. That's unlikely to be your desktop PC. You could certainly purchase server space from someone like http://www.dreamhost.com/ - who will supply the hardware, software, network connection, free web space, email, and Wiki for about $100 per year. However, if you are at a school, university or business - then your organisation probably already has server computers on the Internet 24/7 that you could use for free. Presumably there is some kind of IT department you could go to to request that. If that's not possible - and you don't want to spend $100 a year - then you could possibly set up a machine of your own (an older PC that's no longer needed perhaps - you wouldn't need anything fast or fancy) on your local network and install the software on that. However, it sounds like your degree of computer expertise may not be that high (forgive me if this is not true!) - so getting some help from your organisation to get it set up is likely to be preferable. SteveBaker (talk) 17:35, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I need a bigger screen

Hi, I'm still using an old 15" CRT screen, so I pondered these:

• A 22" 1680x1050 widescreen TFT
• A 24" 1920x1200 widescreen TFT
• Dual 19" 1280x1024 TFT screens

I guess a DVI connection would be better. Not being a gamer, I'm using an Athlon 2000 system.

The problems are:

• My board only supports AGP 4x
• I'd like to use Linux with open source graphics card drivers

Which solution would work, and which would you recommend? Which graphics card should I buy (or will my old ATI Xpert 2000 be sufficient)? TIA, --Hochwohlgeboren (talk) 20:16, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I would go for the 1920×1200 TFT, but it really depends on what you're going do with it. Having dual screen is not as good as you would think, I would much rather have 1 huge screen than many small screens. Are you going to watch HD (1080p) things on there? Compiz? If you're gonna do either of these then you would need a reasonably good card with quite a bit of VRAM, something like the Geforce 7600 will do. --antilived<sup>T | C | G</sup> 04:19, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm actually happier with two medium resolution screens than with one high res one. You see more pixels that way and the side-by-side setup gives you a super-wide setup that you can't get with a single screen that happens to suit the kinds of things I do. Admittedly for games playing and watching video's I have to restrict myself to just one of the two screens - but that's just not my main activity and it's rather nice to have the movie playing on one screen and to have Wikipedia up on the other without overlapping windows and such. I agree that a GeForce 7000 or 8000 series graphics card is the best here - but I doubt that either of those are going to work with AGP 4x - so you might be better off looking for a GeForce 6800 on eBay (make sure it's one of the ones that has two video outputs. However, your requirement to have OpenSourced drivers means you are stuck with ATI cards - and IMHO, that's a REALLY BAD choice. Whilst OSS, their Linux drivers are slow, buggy and poorly supported. nVidia's drivers are the same versions they ship for Windows users, they are fast and very reliable. nVidia's support for Linux is exemplary and I think Linux users should reward them for treating us as a first-class platform rather than beating them with a stick for not opening their source code (which it turns out they cannot do for reasons of how they licensed some of the technology). All AGP cards will work with AGP 4x - just be sure you don't buy a PCI-express card by mistake. SteveBaker (talk) 07:40, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your help! I was wondering if AGP 4x was fast enough to support a big screen. My calculation for dual 19" is:

32 bit x 1280x1024 pixels x 60 Hz x 2 screens = 5033164800 bit = 600 MiB 

Which is still below the 1 GiB that AGP 4x can do. I don't know though if my calculation is too naive, or if the system is bottlenecked by other components. I'm not planning to run HD things or Compiz, my CPU would probably be too slow anyway.

I felt my need for a bigger screen when I was running Eclipse, which looks like a stamp collection at 800x600. Maybe I should buy a 22" widescreen and add a 19" regular one when I need even more space?

After what SteveBaker said, I think I'll give the NVidia-drivers a try. Will all GeForce 6800 (or newer) cards support the widescreen resolutions? Do I need a certain amount of RAM on the card? TIA, --Hochwohlgeboren (talk) 15:58, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

There is plenty of RAM on even the lowliest of nVidia 6000 series cards - but the more screen memory you consume, the less there is for texture maps and such. However, if you aren't interested in interactive 3D applications like games then you probably don't care. Of course I encourage you to check rather than taking my word for it - it's been a while since I configured a system with a 6800 card and eventually all of those generations of hardware start to blur together! Also, graphics cards with nVidia chipsets are made by a variety of manufacturers - and you can get them with different amounts of RAM on them. Since they are two to three year old technology - you should be able to find good ones for low $$$ on eBay. SteveBaker (talk) 18:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much! I'm going to look out for a bargain. --Hochwohlgeboren (talk) 16:51, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Using an AOL proxy to hide bittorrent activity? Possible?

Is there any way to make bittorrent work from behind an AOL proxy? I seem to recall doing it way back when, and AOL hasn't been my ISP for many, many, years.. but I keep the software around mainly because it allows me to edit wikipedia anonamously. Seems like the same thing should work for bittorrent, but it hasn't lately, yet I distinctively remember doing in the distant past. Any hints?--172.164.141.138 22:09, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

No, AOL proxies runs on the HTTP protocol, while BitTorrent runs on the BitTorrent protocol. You can use it to access trackers but any traffic to and fro your peers cannot go through the proxy, just as someone who speaks Chinese cannot relay messages in English. Also, it's not entirely anonymously behind AOL proxies, they've enabled the "forwarded-for" header so MediaWiki still knows who's the editor. --antilived<sup>T | C | G</sup> 22:31, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

True, but the "forwarded-for" headers only work if you volentarily upgrade your AOL software to the newest version, which I haven't done in years, so I'm quite anonymous, thanks to the utter crapiness that is AOL they had no mechanism in place to forcibly upgrade their customers to the newest version of the software.--172.130.223.53 22:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

...he says, editing from a non-proxy AOL IP. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 23:18, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't go that far, true I'm not editing from behind a shared proxy, but it is still none-the-less an AOL proxy. The distinction between the shared and non-shared proxies is an artificial one created by wikipedia, due to the disruptive nature of the shared proxies (which are currently soft range blocked preventing the few remaining holdouts with antiquated versions of AOL from editing from them except when logged in). This doesn't change the fact that there is no way to associate this IP with any real person, place or thing. And back on the original topic, I finally got bittorrent to respond from behind AOL's dynamic proxy server.. bet you want to know how (: --172.134.213.44 00:06, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Since I registered a free AOL account that I use when I log into AOL via the main AOL infrastructure, completely separate from my old "pay" account with AOL, and I only ever log into AOL as "guest" there's really 0 connection between my real life indentity and my IP address. They wouldn't have the slightest idea how to connect my IP with my real name, account, etc... don't even use AOL as an ISP anymore, was automatically switched to RoadRunner back when AOL/TimeWarner went the way of the dodo. Just as anonymous as an open proxy, or tor based proxy, with the added benefit of still being able to edit wikipedia-- 172.135.180.198 00:44, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

November 25

spyware removal

are there any anti-malware programs which you can download for free, do not hyave to register and will remove spyware? The Updater would like to talk to you! 01:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, try Spybot Search & Destroy or Ad-Aware 2007 Free. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 01:34, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Those two are good, safe, choices. But beware of companies offering such things in general - sometimes they are in themselves merely tricks to get you to install software that contains malware. Before installing any of them, do a Google search and see what other people are saying about them. SteveBaker (talk) 07:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

ok, but don't they have to be registered online before use? The Updater would like to talk to you! 11:42, 26 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiHaquinator (talk • contribs)

I have used Spybot Search & Destroy for some years and you don't need to register as far as I can remember. I haven't had any problems with it and it seems to get rid of anything nasty. GaryReggae (talk) 12:57, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Getting cookies earmarked for another domain

I'm not totally sure I have my head wrapped around HTTP cookies, but here's what I want to do:

1. I am running a PHP script on mydomain.com. Its goal is to access anotherdomain.com as a spider—it accesses it programmatically, getting data.
2. anotherdomain.com is only available to those with a username and password and uses a cookie as its authentication scheme. After authenticating, the site deposits a cookie with the name "adomaincookie" and a hash value. The cookie's domain is set to anotherdomain.com.
3. What I want to do is have my php script at mydomain.com be able to get the hash value for "adomaincookie". Once I have that, I can have it send to cookie to the site as part of its HTTP request.

I don't have any access to anotherdomain.com other than as a user, do I can't edit any of its coding or whatever. Is it possible to do this? The name of the cookie does not change, but its hash value does. At the moment I have been manually looking it up in my browser's cookie list but this isn't practical—is there a way to automate the retrieval of this cookie that the other site has set? I've searched around but can't find a way to do it. Any thoughts would be appreciated. No, this is not for any nefarious deed, I am just doing a little data mining. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 01:32, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you can. Otherwise it would be a serious security problem. If someone has your cookies, they can often log into sites you have been or retrieve other private information.

I suggest you use a program running directly on your computer (rather than from the Web); then it can access your cookies. --Spoon! (talk) 07:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah - but that wouldn't allow him to write a site that pretends to be PayPal by passing data transparently to the real PayPal whilst spying in on the data stream along the way. (I'm kidding - but that's the real reason why this doesn't work.) SteveBaker (talk) 08:40, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Sure, but you'd think that any hash algorithm would at least factor in the IP address of the person using it so that it wouldn't work from another IP. (Whenever I do a hash I make sure the IP address is one of the factors because that alone helps a ton security-wise.) I guess what annoys me is that it is a trivial thing to get the cookie data with a program outside the browser, so by itself the security issue would already seem to be in theory quite compromised if that alone was the issue, but I understand why making it a little harder would be the case. Hmm, oh well, I'll figure out some sort of work-around. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 16:49, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Fine print question

I was downloading realplayer when I stumbled on this in the fine print:

6. FIREWALL CONFIGURATION. The Software configures certain firewall applications such that the user is not alerted when the Software requests or receives data necessary for playback content over the UDP protocol.

What's UDP protocol? Yeah, I read the article on it, but it just looks like it was written in another language. Thank you. --Jeevies (talk) 06:10, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

In order to explain what UDP is, I first have to explain what it isn't. There are two main mechanisms ("protocols") for talking over the Internet - TCP and UDP.

TCP (Tramsission Control Protocol) is used for most things where it is vital that the data get there intact but which are not time critical (things like email and web surfing) - every piece of data that is sent has to be acknowledged by a response from the computer that was receiving that data. This enables chunks of data ("packets") that go missing can be retransmitted. There are even mechanisms that retransmit data anyway if an acknowledgement isn't received by the sending computer because the acknowledgement data got lost! TCP is complicated and relatively slow.

For other kinds of data - where a missing piece of data is not the end of the world - the UDP method (which stands for User Datagram Protocol) is much cheaper and more lightweight. The sending computer sends the data and just kinda hopes that it gets there - if it doesn't, it doesn't and that's that. UDP is fast and efficient - but unreliable.

For something like RealPlayer, where data is time-sensitive, TCP is overkill and inefficient. If a frame 123 of a a particular video or sound file goes missinng - then by the time the receiving computer realises that it's got frame 122 and frame 124 has arrived, but 123 is missing, then sends off a 'packet went missing' message and the sending computer retransmits frame 123, the receiving computer is probably already in need of frame 125 and you (the user) already saw a jerk or heard a glitch in the stream. So rather than messing around re-sending data that's already too late to be useful, it's more efficient to use UDP to send it.

There are common firewall settings that are intended to make your computer more secure by turning off protocols that you aren't using in order to give "The Bad Guys" one less way to attack your machine. Since (I suppose) UDP might be one of them, they have the RealPlayer installer switch the firewall settings over to allow these particular UDP packets to pass through the firewall instead of being blocked. That's something you might (rightly) feel outraged about if they didn't get you to agree to it up-front.

UDP is also commonly used in online games where the fact that your opponent is now standing 5 centimeters to the left of where he was 30 milliseconds ago is a piece of information that's only useful to have for the next 30 milliseconds - by which time it's out of date. If it goes missing, there is no point in resending it, it's better to wait for the next update that says that he's now 10 .5 centimeters to the left. So those kinds of routine updates go via super-efficient UDP. On the other hand if he shoots at you - then that's a rather crucial piece of one-time data - which the game probably sends via TCP.

SteveBaker (talk) 07:21, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Wow, thank you very much! I really like the online game analogy, since that happens to me lots. :D --Jeevies (talk) 08:17, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Excellent answer, Steve. Mac Davis (talk) 05:04, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Unix question: Getting specific lines from a text file

In Unix, head gives me the first n lines from a text file, and tail gives me the last n lines. But how do I get n lines starting from line x? The way I do it now is to first use head to get the first x+n lines, and then use tail to get the last n lines of that. But is there a way to do it by only using one command, and not having to calculate x+n? JIP | Talk 12:57, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

sed -n '10,15p' yourfile

or if you have a very large file you can make sed quit scanning after the desired line for speed:

sed -n '16q;10,15p' yourfile

Also possible with awk and perl, and I've seen the command "body" to complement head and tail. Weregerbil (talk) 13:14, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

My friend Philip Lantz once invented a little general-purpose utility "line" for extracting arbitrary lines from a text file or stream. I find it extremely handy. (Yes, I could use sed, but I find "line" to be much more convenient.) You can find my implementation at http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/src/#line. If you use its -f and -p options, it will do the x+n math for you. —Steve Summit (talk) 17:07, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I find the solution of piping the output of head into tail very satisfying - but the pain of calculating x+n is certainly not negligable. So write a shell script - you can easily add x and n using shell commands. I use 'tcsh' out of familiarity - it lets you do math on shell variables using the '@' command - there is bound to be a way to do it with bash also:

  #!/bin/tcsh
  # List the first N lines of a file starting at any given line.
  #  $1 - first line in file (files start at ZERO!)
  #  $2 - number of lines
  #  $3 - filename
  @ end = $1 + $2
  head --lines=$end $3 | tail --lines=$2

SteveBaker (talk) 18:42, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

The bash equivalent to the @ line is let end=$1+$2 or end=$(($1+$2)); the latter syntax lets you put arithmetic anywhere without having to assign it to a variable (so that one could use the single line head --lines=$(($1+$2)) $3...). A nice point is that you can use all the augmented assignment operators (like *=) out of C. --Tardis (talk) 17:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I forgot one option: if you don't like let you can write ((end=$1+$2)) as a command. This lets you write reasonable-looking things like if ((x>5)); then.... --Tardis (talk) 17:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Or if you don't want to worry about which shell you're using, just use end=`expr $1 + $2` like the gods of Unix intended. :-) —Steve Summit (talk) 23:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

tail +10 foo.txt | head -5 will give you five lines from foo.txt starting at line 10. The "+" symbol tells tail to start counting lines from the beginning of the file rather than the (usual) end.

Atlant (talk) 15:42, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Keyboard + Trackball

Does anyone recommend a cheap bluetooth keyboard with a built in trackball or other "mouse" type device? I want to be able to sit on my couch and use my Mac mini using just the keyboard and whatever is built into it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.195.124.101 (talk) 16:49, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Wine on Leopard

Does anyone have any idea on how to build Opengl/Direct3D support into Wine for leopard? I downloaded the latest version, and it builds fine. The only problem is that it says it can't ind OpenGL on my system! Non 3D programs work fine in Wine, but gaming just crashes. I'm using a macbook pro. Please help! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.195.124.101 (talk) 18:19, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

No clue but these seems to be a common problem. Some discussion of it here. Sounds rather complicated. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 19:06, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Python Console Focus

I've got a Python program that performs some animation in a Tkinter window, but uses the getch() function from msvcrt to handle input. Is it possible to code the program to switch the focus back to the console after the window initialises, so that the user doesn't have to Alt Tab ? Robmods (talk) 18:37, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

You might succeed if you try using the win32api extension to call the SetFocus win32 api call. Alternatively, if you're just using the window to draw in, you might consider using PyGame instead of TkInter - both drawing and getting keyboard events are particularly easy in PyGame. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:57, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a full pvp mmorpg???

I want to know if exists a mmorpg that is only (or almost only) pvp.

I know that there are games like dark age of camelot, but in dark age of camelot you have to enter in zones to pvp, there are many mmorpgs like lineage 2 where the pvp is a very important part of game, but in none of then (at least the games that i saw) they are the main part of the game.

An example: Imagine planetside game, planetside is a pvp mmo, and the main aspect of the game is pvp, even if the team put some npc aliens or animals on some planets, this will not make planetside a PVE or PVM, because those aliens would be just a extra thing for the game, so the focus of the game would not become a PVE based game.

What is am wanting is a planetside or world war 2 online like mmo, but not a MMOFPS, I want a MMORPG.

If a game like this don't exist, but there is someone making it, you can tell the name of this game in production.

I know that don't are so many mmorpgs like this because of the problems of new players being killed many times by advanced players

201.8.163.51 (talk) 22:34, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

What are PVP/PVE/PVM etc? You need to explain such acronyms if you want people to help. Astronaut (talk) 22:57, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

PVP = player versus player wikipedia has a article about it( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player ) pvm = player versus monster and pve == player versus enviroment = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pve 201.8.163.51 (talk) 23:24, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

In the ancient times there was Ultima Online. I never played it, but I remember someone other explaining to me that there were at least pure pvp-servers. (This isn't 100% sure) --212.149.216.233 (talk) 13:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

The issue isn't really the mass killing of newbies. It is the lack of RPG elements in a purely PVP environment. There are many PVP games - Id is responsible for a lot of it. Just grab a random game, such as Unreal Tournament. Watch it being played. It is a high-speed frag-fest. There is no time for RPG elements. So, you need to slow down the PVP action with non-PVP areas, PVE missions, and other common MMORPG things. If you have some clever idea for getting RPG elements into the high-speed PVP realm, you should work on developing the idea into a full-functioning game. -- kainaw™ 13:25, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Facebook over HTTPS?

Hi. I use Facebook over an unsecured wireless connection. I know that the logins are passed over HTTPS. But the site contents are not on HTTPS; and I am worried about the privacy of my information or what stuff I look at. Does anyone know of a good way to secure my Facebook accesses? (Using a secured wireless connection is not an option.)

P.S. While we are on that, can I use Wikipedia over HTTPS? Thanks, --131.215.166.100 (talk) 23:25, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

For Facebook, you might try accessing it over a Virtual Private Network. The connection from your machine to the VPN server would be encrypted; the VPN server would talk to Facebook in the clear over a wireline that we assume is more secure. Some people have access to a VPN through their employer or university, though there are organizations don't allow use of Facebook.

There is a secure way of accessing Wikipedia that is not encouraged because it is very processor-intensive. Rather than do that, a few people use a separate Wikipedia account when working from an internet cafe to avoid exposing their main password; this makes some sense for administrators. Regardless of your use of unsecured connections, be sure to register an email address for your account so it is easy to reset your password if it gets compromised. I notice you are posting this question from an IP address. This makes the previous responses moot because anonymous editors don't have accounts or passwords and can't be reached by 'email this user.' Before considering any of the above precautions, create an account first. EdJohnston (talk) 01:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't realize that Wikipedia didn't use HTTPS to authenticate log-ins, at the very least. That seems rather insecure, though I guess the stakes are low. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 02:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

You mean this is discouraged? I was using that overcome the great firewall of China when I was in China, before it was blocked. --antilived<sup>T | C | G</sup> 01:37, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's fine, you had no other option, but it's discouraged when it's done willy-nilly with no good reason. 213.112.18.120 (talk) 02:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

November 26

A problem with the Windows Sound Recorder (on Windows Vista)...

I have Windows Vista on my laptop, and I like the new Sound Recorder. But now, there's a problem. It doesn't pick up a sound when it's recording. It used to pick up a sound, but now it doesn't. How can I make the Sound Recorder pick up a sound in recording again? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirdrink13309622 (talk • contribs) 04:46, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

It's probably to do with the 'mixer' settings on your PC. Go to the Control Panel then Sounds & Audio (or whatever it's called under Vista), click on the Audio tab then click on Volume under Recording Properties. You should see what looks like a mixing desk with sliders for the various inputs you have, ie master volume, microphone, line in etc. If you can't see them all, you will need to go to Properties and tick all the boxes, this will show them all then just make sure whatever input you are trying to record from is not set to mute and has the volume slider set accordingly (ie not at the bottom of the slider).

If that doesn't work, it might be something to do with the settings in the Sound Recorder itself but I am not familiar with it so cannot comment on that. GaryReggae (talk) 12:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Windows XP: File | Save As

Windows XP: File | Save As

In the dialog box of any program in Windows XP when you select: File | Save As

There is an option in the "View Menu" to select "Thumbnails"

Is there any registry tweak to make "Thumbnails" the default choice?

If so, what is the tweak?

Also, is there any way to change the "default size" and "default location" of the dialog box?

Thanks for any info...

Kd6iex (talk) 07:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

programming

name and discribe four programming languages

jack —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.85.162 (talk) 09:35, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misevaluation, but it is our policy here to not do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn how to solve such problems. Please attempt to solve the problem yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. Thank you. See further our articles on Programming Language, List of programming languages, and Comparison of programming languages. antilived<sup>T | C | G</sup> 09:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

• Four languages:

1. SNOBOL - renowned for its powerful string processing capabilities
2. PL/I - has advanced features including recursion and structured programming
3. Simula - model the world as objects!
4. Befunge - it's Turing-complete with a syntax perfect for those with good visual thinking skills

Enjoy! --Sean 14:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

You are soooo evil...but you forgot the all-important Whitespace language - which is ecologically sound because program listings save on printer ink and allow for easy paper recycling! :-)

Dear OP:

If you wish to remain sane, please ignore Sean and don't even THINK of looking up Whitespace or Befunge (nor FALSE, nor Brainfsck, nor LOLCODE, nor INTERCAL, nor Malbolge, nor Shakespeare) because your brain will be permenantly warped and you'll probably get a zero on your homework!

For a more reasonable set of choices to write about try: BASIC] (A simple teaching language), C++ (A mainstream programming language upon which many others such as JAVA are based - nearly every modern video game is written in C++), Assembly language (what the computer itself speaks) and PHP (a server-side web programming language - the language that Wikipedia is written in).

If you really want to find something a bit different, some other significant languages in the history of programming are: Prolog (a really 'different' logic-based language), Fortran (the first true high level language), ALGOL (the precursor of C, C++, Pascal, Java, PHP, and almost all other 'modern' languages - but hardly every used these days), JavaScript (a client-side web programming language), Forth (a stack-based language), PostScript (a programming language that's primarily used for talking to printers(!)), Smalltalk (an early object-oriented language - a great influence on C++ and hence on many other modern languages), LISP (a popular language for AI applications), COBOL (the language of choice for banking and accountancy), Ada (what you get if you let the military arm of your government design your programming language (by committee) and then pass laws to force you to use it!)

I'm sure others can provide other significant choices - these happen to be mine. SteveBaker (talk) 15:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I don't know -- the assignment asked for four programming languages, described, and it didn't say they had to be, like, good languages or anything. So using INTERCAL, Brainfuck, Befunge, and LOLCODE (hey! that's a new one on me) could lead to a very interesting answer, and if the professor was so clueless or closed-minded as to grade the OP with a zero for that answer, well, I think the OP needs a new professor. —Steve Summit (talk) 02:38, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Come on - let him impress his teacher with a list like:

• C++: Why let the programming language keep you from making terrible memory management mistakes?
• Perl: Others shouldn't be able to read your code when you are done writing it.
• MUMPS: You shouldn't be able to read your own code either.
• Lisp: Because all the other languages do it wrong.

Only four? I could go on and on and on... Of course, I'm ignoring the esoteric programming languages. -- kainaw™ 16:13, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Here, let me correct that for you:

• C++: Is like an extremely mean attack dog. If it's on your side, it's awesome - but you've got to let it know who's boss or it'll turn on you...and you really wouldn't enjoy that.
• Perl: The world's first write-only language. The syntax looks like transmission line noise.
• MUMPS: The only language where the time between writing your code and being unable to read it is actually a negative number. If MUMPS were only used to write unimportant applications, this might be forgivable. Sadly, almost the only users of MUMPS are in the healthcare industry (Eeeeek!).
• Lisp: To paraphrase the Slashdot meme:
  1. Buy shares in a tiny struggling company whose only product is replacement ')' keys for PC keyboards,
  2. Encourage everyone to use Lisp.
  3. ??
  4. Profit!

SteveBaker (talk) 04:27, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Every time a discussion arises about programming language quirks, I feel obliged to point out the greatest programming language ever concieved by man, Prolog. I had been programming for nearly 15 years in various procedural, fuctional and object-oriented languages, but I have never been as fascinated or had as much fun doing stuff in Prolog. It's something every programmer should treat themselves. 213.112.18.120 (talk) 01:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah - I know exactly what you mean! I have a VERY clear memory of (somewhat) learning Prolog. I'd seen an article (I think it was in Byte magazine) about how you could implement the three laws of robotics in Prolog. So I bought the book - found a place where I could run programs and I started reading. I was getting more and more excited about the purity and clarity (and oddness) of the language - right up until the third paragraph of page 65 (Why do I remember that from 20 years ago? I have no clue.)...that was where they started to talk about 'cut'. Cut is the rough equivelent of a GOTO statement in Prolog...except that this one is absolutely needed in order to make your programs actually run in less than the life of the universe! By the bottom of page 67, I gave up on Prolog. <sigh> SteveBaker (talk) 04:27, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Web --> unix terminal interface

Hi,

I've got a server. I've also got web access at work. I want to be able to open a command shell on my linux server from work, but can't SSH to it. So I'm looking for something in CGI or javascript or similar that can put a terminal in a web page. Any suggestions?

--Psud (talk) 11:50, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Try webmin. Morana (talk) 12:45, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

• You don't say why you can't use SSH, but using a Java applet-based SSH client might be an option. No installation on the client is necessary, assuming it can run Java applets. There are several implementations, but I've used Mindterm with success. --Sean 13:46, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

One presumes that our OP's employer has blocked outgoing SSH ports to prevent employees doing exactly this. While you certainly can put together something to get shell access via web pages, it's awfully risky. You need secure password-locked access and you need to not be sending the password in plaintext. These are the kinds of concern that SSH is designed to protect against. I'm not saying it's impossible - just that you have to exercise large amounts of paranoia. Also, if your employer doesn't want you to have shell access to your server during your time at work, bypassing that is exactly the kind of thing that could get you into a lot of trouble. If you believe you have a genuine business need to do this then perhaps your IT department could be asked to unlock outgoing SSH access. SteveBaker (talk) 15:04, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Megaupload safe?

Is the site "Megaupload" safe to use, that is, it won't give you spam or a virus or something if you use it? Thanks in advance. External link:[1] 67.42.180.114 (talk) 13:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

• You can safely upload and download things that others have stored there. I've never had a computer virus myself, so I don't know about any popups or whatever giving you one. --Sean 14:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I have Adblock Plus, so I'm safe from popups. 67.42.180.114 (talk) 14:42, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what kind of things people upload and download there. If it's text files and pretty pictures, fine. But if it's programs (applications, screensavers, web browser toolbars, etc.), then you're at rather dire risk of all sorts of mayhem if you download, install, and run those programs. (Remember, installing and running code on your computer is like having sex -- don't do it unless you have good reason to be sure of the health and trustworthiness of your partner.) —Steve Summit (talk) 16:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Except sex is a lot more fun, on the whole. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 16:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

It's just a normal downloading experience, just most likely with larger files. But I agree that the popups may give you problems - not that I've encountered any. x42bn6 Talk Mess 17:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Megaupload and rapidshare— it depends on what files you're downloading, and that depends on who uploaded them. If somebody randomly posted a rapidshare link on 4chan it would be wise to wait for several testimonies if you really want to download the file (unless of course you have Mac OS X). Also, most files on there I believe have been .rar-ed or .zip-ed, so there's no way to tell what's in them aside from the size and title until you have downloaded it. If you upload a file to megaupload and want to download it, or have your friend download it, it's safe. The unsafe comes when you randomly download other people's files. Mac Davis (talk) 04:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't recommend megaupload. I prefer http://mihd.net or http://drop.io F (talk) 23:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

NFS CARBON problem

I had just bought this need for speed carbon collector's edition dvd but it does not work,it displays the nfs carbon picture and all of a sudden theres a black screen and then it returns to normal,i tried everything except for Ram the game requires 512 ram but i have 504 mb of ram but in the easy info it gives ok.my system's info are:

Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)

504 mb ram

System Memory 502.2

Processor Speed 3192.2

DirectX Version (Get Updates) 9.0c

Display Device (Get Drivers) Intel(R) 82945G Express Chipset Family

Display Memory 128.0

Display Driver 6.14.10.4497

Sound Device Realtek HD Audio output

Sound Driver 5.10.00.5324 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.70.64.41 (talk) 17:18, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

You don't have a graphics card. There's your problem. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 17:31, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

• This is the graphics card (or onboard chip, more likely): "Intel(R) 82945G Express Chipset Family". --Sean 18:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

• I know - the emphasis was on discrete 'graphics card'. Onboard graphics isn't going to cut it. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 20:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

• Especially with only 8MiB of VRAM. --antilived<sup>T | C | G</sup> 00:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Probably the deeper problem is that the Intel graphics chips use memory out of main CPU RAM for texture maps and such. Since you already don't have enough RAM to run the game - when the Intel chip steals maybe half of it...you DEFINITELY don't have enough. Time to upgrade! SteveBaker (talk) 04:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Searching google with 51 words,How?

I want to search following 51 words in google at one go how do I do it ?Mahitgar (talk) 17:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Terms I want to serch at one go at google:विकिपेडीआ OR विकिपेडिआ OR विकिपेडीया OR विकिपेडिया OR विकीपेडीआ OR विकीपेडिआ OR विकीपेडीया OR वीकीपेडिया OR वीकीपेडीआ OR वीकीपेडिआ OR वीकीपेडीया OR वीकीपेडिया OR वीकीपेडिया OR वीकिपेडीआ OR वीकिपेडिआ OR वीकिपेडीया OR वीकिपेडिया OR विकिपीडीआ OR विकिपीडिआ OR विकिपीडीया OR विकिपीडिया OR विकीपीडीआ OR विकीपीडिआ OR विकीपीडीया OR वीकीपीडिया OR वीकीपीडीआ OR वीकीपीडिआ OR वीकीपीडीया OR वीकीपीडिया OR वीकीपीडिया OR वीकिपीडीआ OR वीकिपीडिआ OR वीकिपीडीया OR वीकिपीडिया OR विकिपिडीआ OR विकिपिडिआ OR विकिपिडीया OR विकिपिडिया OR विकीपिडीआ OR विकीपिडिआ OR विकीपिडीया OR वीकीपिडिया OR वीकीपिडीआ OR वीकीपिडिआ OR वीकीपिडीया OR वीकीपिडिया OR वीकीपिडिया OR वीकिपिडीआ OR वीकिपिडिआ OR वीकिपिडीया OR वीकिपिडिया

Just type them in the google search box and click the google search button. Google automatically applies an "or" between the words, but pushes pages with the most words to the top of the results list. -- kainaw™ 17:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure about this? I'm pretty sure they've always been ANDed by default. --Sean 17:57, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

It's worth checking the Google Cheat Sheet for this. OR will work here, although you'll be able to search for part of those words, since Google limits the number of words to something like seven (if I recall correctly). -- JSBillings 18:05, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Wait, it looks like google has raised that limit to 32, although I can't find any definitive limit on Google's site. -- JSBillings 18:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

As for the and/or usage in Google. A search will return documents with all words (and) if they are available. Then, it will return documents with some of the words (and/or mix) if they are available. Then, it will return documents with at least one of the words (or) if they are available. That is why I stated that the OR wasn't required since it will be implied if no documents contain all of the words. I did not know Google has a word limit. I assumed the character limit of the query string wouldn't be an issue with only 51 words. -- kainaw™ 18:47, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

URLs can only be 256 characters long, so if the words are just 5 letters long then the search query alone will exceed the limit --ffroth 01:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

WHAT?!? Where did you get that idea from? This Wikipedia URL is 280 characters: [2] SteveBaker (talk) 03:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

The shortest URL limitation I've ever seen was in an early version of Lynx at 1024 characters. Currently, IE5 is the only semi-popular web browser that I know of with a low limit (2048 characters if I remember correctly). All other web browsers have much larger limitations. -- kainaw™ 13:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to all for inputs and enthusiastic support and very educating info I am recieving here,ofcourse further discussion and inputs is most welcome and I expect this discussion to continue a little further and it is quite interesting to follow guidance from all of you.Mahitgar (talk) 13:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

32-bit vs 64-bit time

32-bit time will cause the year 2038 problem in January 2038, when the number of seconds since January 1, 1970 causes signed 32-bit integer math to wrap around. Does 64-bit time use the same signedness, granularity and epoch? From the Sun article, the Sun will become a red giant in about 5e9 - 6e9 years. Ignoring the comparably negligible difference between January 1, 1970 and now (November 26, 2007), this will mean that it will happen at roughly (very roughly) at time 0x0038CC1780063000 to time 0x0044281C333AA000. Both of these fit nicely not only to signed 64-bit integers, but also to signed 56-bit integers, which means that by clever programming we could save 12.5% of computer memory used to store the time. JIP | Talk 17:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, that last thing you said is just stupid. It's a fine example of premature optimization, "the root of all evil". On most systems it wouldn't even make any difference in memory usage, because 64-bit integers are aligned to a multiple of two bytes or greater. —Keenan Pepper 18:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I know. I forgot to add a smiley. JIP | Talk 18:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

• There is no standard definition of 64-bit time the way there is for the Unix "time_t time(time_t*)" call. The latest Single Unix Specification addresses it only in the marginal notes. In all likelihood, at some point in the next few years, they'll say that implementations are allowed to do a 64-bit transition with time() in the same way they did with calls like lseek(). That means they'll probably just make time_t a 64-bit signed integer, maybe with some transition functions like time64(), and leave everything else the same. --Sean 18:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

• There are already plenty of computers where time_t is 64 bits (retaining, of course, the conventional interpretation as seconds since 1970). Debian Linux running on my Alpha does it that way, for instance. (On that machine, regular old long is 64 bits, too, which I personally believe is as it should be on a 64-bit machine.) And most modern processors and compilers have good support for 64-bit arithmetic even if they're not wholly 64-bit architectures, so I'm confident we can expect to see time_t on more and more implementations switch over to 64 bits over the next several years, and if that were all it took to solve the "Y2.038K problem", we'd be home free.

Unfortunately, that's not all it will take to solve the Y2.038K problem. The big bugaboo, I fear, will be the same as it was for Y2K: on-disk records. There are lots of systems that store binary data on disk, and lots of them store timestamps as four-byte, 32-bit time_t's. It's likely to be exactly as hard to handle all of those as it was for on-disk two-digit years, and I'm afraid our grandchildren are going to be just as scornful of the shortsighted old Unix programmers of yore as we all were of the shortsighted COBOL programmers who were behind the Y2K problem. (But of course that's not fair, either, because there were programs written in virtually every language that were bitten by Y2K, not just the COBOL ones.) —Steve Summit (talk) 02:17, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

The 2038 problem isn't all THAT serious - nothing like on the scale of Y2K - only people who used signed integers to manipulate absolute dates are in trouble - and we've known that was a bad idea for a very long time. Those who went with unsigned numbers are safe until 2076 or so. Since the storage problem is VERY unlikely to be affected by signed/unsigned issues, and VERY few people will have packed dates into 31 bits, we only need to fix code in order to survive to 2076...it's exceedingly unlikely that any large database files on disk will need work before then.

Incidentally, it's not just DEC Alpha's that are using 64 bit time_t's. Both my AMD64 PC SuSE 10.2 Linux system and my I32 PC SuSE 9.3 Linux machine have time_t being a typedef of "__kernel_time_t" which in turn is typedef'ed as "long". However, sizeof(long) on the I32 machine is 4 - so time_t is a signed 32 bit number (Aaarrgghh! Big problem in 2038!) - but the AMD64 machine reports sizeof(long) to be 8. AMD64 machines are very common these days - so an awful lot of people are already running 64 bit time values and if they have screwed up and put 31 or 32 bit times on disk, they already know it!

As an aside: You might also be tremendously excited to see this photo I took off my Linux machine's screen on the occasion of the first UNIX billenium: http://www.sjbaker.org/gallery/main/billenium.png ...it's running a program that reports the return from 'time()' whenever the value changes. My family sat around with puzzled looks on their faces and Tux toys in their laps counting down the seconds. OK, I can tell that you aren't tremendously excited (neither were they)...but still...cool, or what?! :-) SteveBaker (talk) 03:17, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

You were lucky that the program missed 999999998 and not 1000000000; that would have been much less photogenic! --Tardis (talk) 15:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, my own random comments:

• Keenan Pepper: You're right that using 56 bits to store an "extended" time_t is a ridiculous optimization, although I once got code published in a book (C Unleashed, by Heathfield et al.) showing how to do exactly that. It was tactical: my thinking was that there are some programmers (and managers) out there who would think that 64 bits is "clearly overkill" and would reject any suggestion that they use 64 bits for their own on-disk time records. But it's easy to see that 32 bits are too few -- plenty of us will be alive in 2038. (I'm enough of a Unix nurd that I hope to be.) So 56 bits was a good compromise. (Or maybe I used 48, I forget.)
• SteveBaker: Who says using signed integers to manipulate absolute dates is a bad idea? What if we want to represent our birthdays? (And if nobody does, why are you worried that your I32 machine will have big problems in 2038? :-) )
• Anybody who liked Other Steve's countdown video will love Image:Year 2038 problem.gif.

—Steve Summit (talk) 23:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

November 27

Chords in Turing

Hello. How can I play musical chords in Turing? I have tried assigning the treble and bass clefs as different processes and forking both of them. That never worked. I have tried installing the Turing 4.0.5 compiler in Advanced mode (i.e. Turing can have multiple source files open simultaneously) and running both source files simulanteously. That never worked. Hence is playing musical chords in Turing possible? Thanks in advance. --Mayfare (talk) 01:11, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

..how are you trying to play it? --ffroth 02:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I know nothing about Turing but it sounds to me like it can only have one sound channel open at a time and one note per channel? If that's actually the case then you'll have no luck playing chords via that method. You might see if there's a way to access a MIDI interface with the language, as MIDI can support lots of notes and lots of channels. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 04:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

700mb/80 mins

On my CD-R writable CD's, it says that the capacity is "700mb/80min". Why is there the time restriction? If I fill up my CD with 80 mins of MP3 music, it's only taking up about 300-400mb. Why can I not fill up the rest of the CD? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 01:31, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

It's for normal CDDA recording length, you can only fit 80 minutes of CD audio (not MP3, that's written as a file), see Red Book (audio CD standard). --antilived<sup>T | C | G</sup> 01:45, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

"Audio CD"s are badly compressed- just burn flac data files for equivalent quality --ffroth 01:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's compressed at all, it's just PCM encoded in EFM. --antilived<sup>T | C | G</sup> 01:48, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

CD audio (CDDA) is certainly not compressed - but it has one huge advantage over flac/MP3/ogg/whatever. If your CD is scratched to some certain degree, the player will simply not be able to read files stored in CD-ROM mode. In 'audio CD' mode, it has lots of error correction and error recovery techniques that will allow even fairly serious damage to be recovered from - often without so much as a glitch. So you are trading capacity for robustness. SteveBaker (talk) 02:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Wait a minute. 44100 (samples per second) * 2 (bytes per sample) * 2 (stereo channels) * 60 (seconds per minute) * 80 (alleged minutes) = 846720000 bytes, way over 700 megs. What's missing? --tcsetattr (talk / contribs) 02:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

There are more error correction codes used in CD-ROM format than Audio CD format. According to Compact Disc#Data structure, each sector can have 2352 bytes of music in Audio CD format or 2048 bytes of data in CD-ROM format. So 846720000 bytes (80 minutes) of Audio CD music use the same number of sectors as 737280000 bytes (~703 megabytes) of CD-ROM data. --Bavi H (talk) 07:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Properties Summary Tab...

Hi, I was using someone else's computer today and went to look at the comments of a picture. I clicked on Properties but there was no Summary tab... Is there a way to get the summary tab? They had XP by the way. Thanks!! --Zach (talk) 05:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Why can't I print in color?

I have a Canon S300 color printer that is 5 years old. When I bought it I had no problems making color prints. In recent months I have only been able to print in black & white / grayscale. Do I need to reinstall the driver, or is something else going on? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.120.95.52 (talk) 15:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

(Generic) possibilities:

• Someone, somewhere along the way changed a preference in the printer driver so everything is forced into greyscale.

• Someone, somewhere, changed a preference in one or more particular application programs so that everything is forced into greyscale. PowerPoint used to do this by default!

• The printer has run out of one or more ink colors and has decided to fall-back to greyscale printing.

• Windows hasn't frustrated you enough these last few months so it's decided to do this just to be a pain in your butt.

Does the printer driver have the ability to print a test page? Can the prnter itself print a test or demo page? Does that come out in color? That might help you figure out in which part of the system the problem lies.

Atlant (talk) 17:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I used to have an S7000 (something like that - the same family as yours anyway). The printer itself has (I believe) the ability to print a test page - you have to hold down some buttons on the front panel as you power up the printer. That would allow you to rule out the printer itself, ink, that kind of thing. Check the owner's manual. SteveBaker (talk) 17:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Creative Zen Vision W on Linux?

I just bought a used Zen Vision W at half the price of a new one, but I haven't yet received it. Will it work on Linux? JIP | Talk 18:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Almost certainly. Almost all recent players implement the USB mass storage device class, which means they just appear to your computer to be an external disk. Then you'd use a program like Amarok to load it with content. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree - there are a few MP3 players that don't work - but almost all do. Depending on which version of Linux you use, the thing will probably be auto-mounted a few seconds after you plug it in. Then it's just like it was a directory on your disk drive - probably under /media or /mnt somewhere. (SuSE Linux puts it under /media using the name of the device as the folder name beneath that). Then you can copy files into and out of it at will, just like any other disk directory. When you unplug it, it should unmount just as automatically. SteveBaker (talk) 18:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't intend to use it as so much a music player than a photograph and movie player. The original reason why I bought it was to be able to store over six times the combined capacity of my memory cards when I'm out on a photographing trip and have no access to a computer. JIP | Talk 20:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Fedora 8 questions

After I upgraded to Fedora 8, I've seen two annoying things that I don't know how to fix.

• yum-updatesd keeps running an automated update process periodically. This update process clogs up my ADSL network connection for hours and can only be interrupted with kill -9. And it doesn't even seem to be of any use, because I have never seen it report it actually downloaded or installed anything, or even asked me if it was OK to do so. Have I somehow misunderstood this daemon? Is it possible to turn it off "nicely" instead of kill -9:ing the whole daemon process?

• Whenever Evolution receives new mail, I get a pop-up notification in Gnome Panel telling me I have new messages. Yes, I can see that, thank you! Is there a way to turn these pop-up notifications off?

JIP | Talk 18:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

In system-config-services, see if yum-updatesd is listed. If so, uncheck it so it won't be running when you start the computer. If it isn't in services, it may be in your /etc/cron.daily directory - telling it to run every day. There are other ways to have it run all the time, but those are the two common ways to do it. -- kainaw™ 18:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I ran the Services configuration application found in the Administration menu and was able to turn yum-updatesd off. Thank you! JIP | Talk 19:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Anyone earning through digitalpoint.com's forums

I came today across a website called forums.digitalpoint.com, where forum where anyone can start new threads or simply topics and earn money. You can also reply to already started topics and also earn from that. Do anyone of you earn from that website or know about earning through that website? I am not a great writer, so I cant blog. But I usually write comments for articles in blogs and news sites. So I thought why cant I do something like this as my part time job. (Yes, few minutes a day). Do you have any idea how much people earn through this? What is the average people earn through it? How many topics should you start and how many replies should I get for topics I have started to earn $100? Any other better website to earn? (Not just forum websites, but anything else also) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.125.9 (talk) 19:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

They must be using advertising to pay for this - they probably don't earn even $0.01 per page-view and they probably take 50% of the cash - so the community share of that is maybe half a penny per view - but that's got to be shared amongst whoever posted to the thread - suppose there are 10 respondants to each thread? So you're probably going to be earning maybe a hundredth of a penny per view. For $100 then you need about a million people to read your threads each week! That would have to be a very compelling topic! So no - there is no way on earth that you are going to earn even $1 per week doing this. Recite after me: "THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH". SteveBaker (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

20 Pin ATX PSU Modification...

Hello! I just want to ask if it's safe to add 4 more pins to a 20-pin ATX PSU?
And will it work on a 24-pin motherboard?
Thanks for reading this...
--Hellraiser102604 (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

playing .flv files

I have a bunch of .flv files and I can't get them to play? What codec/program do I need to play them? I'm running on Vista right now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.169.187.67 (talk) 22:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

VLC media player works on Windows XP, it should also work on Vista. --LarryMac | Talk 23:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

In my experience it has problems seeking (jumping from place to place) in FLV files, so you can recode them (just changing the packaging format to AVI or MP4) using Mediacoder. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:28, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I have been putting these onto an internal server I have running, then setting up a web page with 'ufo.js' (Google for it) to replay them. Then I watch them in my browser - just as you do when watching YouTube or whatever. It's not convenient if you just want to quickly see just one movie - but if you have a bunch of them and you want to watch them more than once (my son's 3D animations for example) then it works out pretty well. It's platform independent too. SteveBaker (talk) 23:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

How do you remove macfuse from a macbook

hello i recently installed macfuse on my macbook, but do not need it, i want to remove it but do not know how i have tired to find out but am unsure. any help would be appreciated.

Simon 27/11/07 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.33.4 (talk) 23:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Errrr, surely you just double click your hard drive> applications> said software and drag into trash.

Or is it some weird software? 86.139.90.55 (talk) 23:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Largest CompactFlash card for camera?

I have a Canon PowerShot A70 camera. I would like to know what's the largest CF card I can use with it. All the manual says is "CompactFlash Type I" which doesn't help much. Thanks. F (talk) 23:45, 27 November 2007 (UTC)