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June 20

Johan Quist the Danish Architect who lived in Copenhagen in the latter 18th Century

Was he the same Johan Quist who built the Castle at Keta in Gold Coast, now Ghana, in West Africa around the same time? And did he have a brother, if so what was his name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danequist (talk • contribs) 06:50, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't know the answer to either of your questions about Johan Martin Quist. No information on the net in Danish provides the name of the architect behind the rebuilding of Fort Christiansborg in the second half of the 18th century. The Danish article on da:Johan Martin Quist claims that all his architectural work was done on buildings in the Copenhagen area, but it is unsourced so not exactly a reliable statement. I will check out the standard work on the Danish colonies to see if it provides any answers, however it will probably take a couple of days. Regarding the second question I would advise you to ask that question at this Danish genealogy forum, where they are happy to answer questions in English as well. --Saddhiyama (talk) 08:54, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

The question is apparently about Fort Prinzenstein (Fort Prinsensten) at Keta and not Osu Castle (Fort Christiansborg) in Osu. I don't know the answer. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:11, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

B.Pharma + MBA job prospects

My friend from India plans to come to America in several years with B.Pharma and MBA degrees, having come from one of the best colleges in India. Would he be able to receive accreditation to operate as a pharmacist? With those degrees, what's the job market for him going to be like when he comes five years from now?--24.4.83.231 (talk) 15:21, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

What type of job is he looking for with those degrees ? Working as a pharmacist is a possibility, with the goal of becoming the chief pharmacist at a particular store. Since the US population is getting older and more dependent on prescription drugs, that's a growth industry right now. Note that the US has the strange practice of breaking open the sealed packages of meds that come from the manufacturer, then putting them in new containers and adding their own label, introducing possibilities of errors in medication, dosage, and labeling (as well as theft, substituting counterfeit meds, and adulteration). So, your friend might need some additional training to minimize these risks, if they don't do this in India. The billing and insurance may also be quite different. And, of course, he would need good English skills. StuRat (talk) 16:40, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

The friend needs much more than "some additional training". Anyone trained at a foreign institution who wishes to practice in the US must have an undergraduate 5-year Pharmacy degree or a D. Pharm, and then must take a qualifying professional course, as well as sit the courses' exam and a special TOEFL. See here for specifics. After that, your friend then must qualify, usually by way of more exams, if not more courses, for licensing in specific states. Bielle (talk) 17:02, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

His best bet might be to try to work for a pharmaceuticals manufacturer with sales in India. He should start researching such companies early, and take opportunities for work placements in multinational companies. That way his Indian background will be a positive asset, not a liability. Itsmejudith (talk) 19:13, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Is having an investment portfolio considered doing business?

Is having an (independent) investment portfolio considered as doing business / engaging in business activities? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.254.27.55 (talk) 16:36, 20 June 2012 (UTC) Portfolio for trading shares

Considered by whom ? If you are seeking a job managing the portfolios of others, then managing your own successfully might qualify as usable experience. StuRat (talk) 16:42, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

This appears to be verging on legal advice, which we don't provide. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:29, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Only if they meant it for tax purposes, such as trying to deduct equipment used to maintain their portfolio, like a home computer. StuRat (talk) 23:12, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

It depends on what context the OP is defining his terms in. In the broadest terms of course he would be engaging in trade, probably free trade, be a capitalist, and be engaged in what the US government would see as regulable interstate commerce. But a janitor who described himself as a businessman because he had a 401k (retirement account) would be seen by his friends as putting on heirs. Nevertheless, Miott Romney was absolutely right to say corporations are people. μηδείς (talk) 00:33, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

"Heirs", really? FiggyBee (talk) 02:18, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

"Miott"? Anyway, don't mind Medeis. He's just putting us on. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:50, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Did I say "heirs"? Oh, my. But I did mean what I said, even if I didn't spell it right. μηδείς (talk) 06:34, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Your spelling is better than your orthography may indicate. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 06:39, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Tooshay! μηδείς (talk) 21:45, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

This sounds like it's asking for advice on the terms of a particular regulation/contract (maybe for insurance, a rental agreement, application for state benefits, property zoning regulations, hire purchase/mortgage, tax return, etc, all of which may want to know if an individual is pursuing any business or property is being used for a certain purpose). It's impossible for us to give advice on what other people consider to be doing business / engaging in business activities, especially when you don't say who those other people are, or in what context. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

In my usage, "doing business" means providing a good or service for compensation. Doesn't include investing, unless you're doing it for someone else and being paid for it. So, short answer is "no". --Trovatore (talk) 21:50, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

(However, as Colapeninsula notes, that may not be the answer for the purposes of any legal matters you're involved with.) --Trovatore (talk) 23:16, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Mike and Ike?

A fellow Flickrista wants to know: for whom is the candy Mike and Ike named? The Interwebs mention a 1937 vaudeville duo, possibly a pair of song-and-dance men or comedians billed as "the twins," though (I would suppose) an Irishman and a Jew, respectively. Meanwhile, the candy's current ad campaign has generated enough noise to mask any signal I could detect (before turning here) that would clarify and confirm the history. A more knowledgeable or persistent editor's help is appreciated. -- Deborahjay (talk) 19:23, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, since Just Born doesn't even know, it won't be likely to find them. I think their candy names are kinda like band names -- a bunch of people sit around with sugar highs and blurt out utterances and then someone says, "Hey, that's a cool bandcandy name!" --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 21:08, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, well, well. I immediately recognised the phrase "Mike and Ike" from Placet is a crazy place, a short story by Fredric Brown. I had no idea that it had any significance outside the story. --ColinFine (talk) 22:47, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

"Mike and Ike (They Look Alike) was a comic strip by Rube Goldberg, who introduced the identical twin characters in the San Francisco Bulletin on September 29, 1907." Gandalf61 (talk) 13:44, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Why don't car companies give their employees cars ?

The US car companies do give a discount to employees who buy their own cars, but why not take it further, say, by offering $10,000 towards a car purchase per 2000 hours worked, with a corresponding reduction in pay ? The employees would then get a $20K car "free", after 2 years of work, for example. Presumably the companies sell their cars at a profit, so this $10K benefit would cost them less than $10K, especially if some employees pass on the deal.

The same strategy could work for many other types of companies, provided their product is one everybody needs. (Men working at Tampax may not want a lifetime supply of tampons.) :-) StuRat (talk) 21:27, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Who wants a car, let alone a new one every two years? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:51, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd think most people, especially most people working for car companies. If they don't want a new car every 2 years, they can give some to their spouses or kids. They could also let the money accumulate and buy luxury vehicles, less often. StuRat (talk) 21:57, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

It seems complicated. What if the employee quits after a year; does he get a $10,000 check? Seems like that would create more problems than it would solve. And I could be wrong, but I'd suspect a clever car company would give you a good deal... if you financed it through them. (So they make money off of you either way, since the financing is where the real profit comes in.) --Mr.98 (talk) 21:56, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

If I were the car company, I'd say they either forfeit the money when they quit, or they may still apply it towards the purchase of a car, and pay the rest off themself. Either one should encourage employees to stay on. StuRat (talk) 22:00, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Th tax man doesn't care how you pay the employee - the tax man is still going to get his cut. Same reason game show winners can't get all their prizes. Rmhermen (talk) 22:07, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I know, that's why I didn't list "tax dodge" as one of the advantages. StuRat (talk) 22:10, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

It need not be a GMC product. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:51, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

A Dodge is actually from Chrysler, but I can't afford either. :-) StuRat (talk) 06:35, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

D'oh! Memory failing as I'm getting Olds. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:00, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

They have a different deal for game shows here in Australia. If you win $100,000, you get to keep every red cent of it. Same with lotteries - it's all yours to do with as you please. I suppose the TV/lottery companies have some arrangement with the ATO so that the latter is not out of pocket, but I don't know the details. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 22:33, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

It could be the taxes are paid but the companies are banned from advertising the untaxed value. --80.112.182.54 ([[User talk:80.112.182.54|talk] ]) 13:35, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

This has been discussed before, with references. The difference between the US and a number of other countries like (IIRC) Canada, UK, Australia and New Zealand is the later don't regard such windfalls as income since they aren't normally a way people can resonably expect to earn money to help pay for their living. Therefore no income tax is due on such winnings. However this may not apply when people do make it part of their income stream, e.g. by regularly appearings on game shows (although my impression is it'll normally needs to be more then two). There may be additional taxation on the companies like gambling taxation but these are seperate and I believe are also common in the US anyway. Edit: Not sure if it was noted before but also Germany Taxation in Germany Nil Einne (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Around thirty years ago, when quiz shows were serious in Australai, a particularly nerdy friend won two major quizzes on different TV networks. The tax department decreed that he was doing it professionally, and demanded a share. HiLo48 (talk) 11:54, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

GM has what's called "Employee Vehicle Allowance" which is basically what you just described. I was employed in a GM-supplier and everyone was offered similar discounts on GM vehicles. I'm not familiar with other car makers, but I imagine they all have something similar as well. As a side note, this became a minor contributor to GM's downfall, since employees would buy discounted vehicles as often as possible and flip them, thus hurting the retail sales.Anonymous.translator (talk) 22:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

When I worked for GM in the late 1980's, I only got a discount of about 18% off MSRP, and that came with the requirement that I agree to keep the car for 6 months. (I'm not sure what the punishment would be if I didn't, but probably disqualification from the discount program, at the least.) StuRat (talk) 23:09, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

If someone sold it, the company would probably never find out. But it's definitely a moral and legal grey area. Looking at the discounts now [1] it's usually less than 10%.Anonymous.translator (talk) 00:06, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Fordism, Truck system. Capitalists have long sought to pay workers in the commodity form rather than the money form, as it forces the costs of realisation onto the work, this is called the Truck system and it is only valuable to workers in a very few cases, (for example, in the Late Soviet period when the nomenklatura crashed the economy, tampon workers could get more by Truck and trade than by waiting on wages that were never paid.) Truck is generally very very very bad for workers. In contrast, Fordism is a broader scale deal. In return for industrial quietescence (enforced with horrific brutality and even more horrific job design), the employer pays a wage that means that the employee can generally afford the worst, cheapest product on the line. This only really works well in Department IIa industries: production of ordinary consumption goods. You can't tell a worker they'll be able to buy 0.002% of a mine's coal output with their new, better wages. You can't tell a worker they'll be able to buy a Raymond Luxury Yacht at the end of four thousand years of work with their new, better wages. Outside of Department IIa, Fordism generally means buying workers off with increased use values and increasing the velocity of realisation of commodities as capital. In reality, with Cars a standard part of the Western consumption bundle, a requirement of life rather than a "cheaper than most luxury," car production employees have access to discounted purchasing programs; kind of a voluntary system of truck. But given that the discount makes up part of their wage, if a Ford worker buys Nissan they're cheating themselves. So more like a Truck system than you'd think. Fifelfoo (talk) 00:16, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

(ec) If the car company makes $ 500 profit on a 20k car, and this profit is split between company and employee by not lowering the salary with $ 500 / 2 years but for instance $ 250/ 2 years. Then, after 2 years, the employee gets a the 20 k car with a $ 250 discount and the company makes $ 250 profit instead of $ 500. Meanwhile, many forms had to be filled out, a car worth exactly 20k had to be selected 2 years before the employee could drive it, etc. If the company doesn't mind selling the car for 19,750 to his employee with $ 250 profit, why not give him a $250 rebate at any time he wants it? Joepnl (talk) 00:27, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

There's no reason the car has to be selected ahead of time, the credit can just continue to accrue until they pick a car. And, in your example, one reason not to just give the employee $250 is that the car company no longer gets it's cut (the other $250), if the employee doesn't buy the company's car. Other reasons are the chance that the employee won't buy a car (then the company keeps all the money) and that the employee may stick around longer, so they save up enough to buy the car. An advantage for the employee is that the car is purchased outright, so they don't have to pay interest on financing and worry about repo men driving it off, if they can't pay. StuRat (talk) 06:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Profit sharing doesn't really exist. Your example regarding the employer's view of their profit appears to be incoherent, could you try explaining it again? The reason not to give an employee $250 is the other $19750—if the employee wants $250, they have to pay $19750. If the employee doesn't own a car, and a car is a necessary use-value in the employee's society, then they will have an incentive to pay $19750 to their employer instead of paying $20000 to another car company. Fifelfoo (talk) 01:28, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, the advantage is that they increase their market share, sell off excess stock, are able to avoid lay-offs, etc. This does assume a market where they have excess capacity. In a case where cars were out of stock and going for a premium over the MSRP, this plan wouldn't make as much sense. StuRat (talk) 06:38, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

June 21

What is the name of the movie?

I am trying to find the name of a movie starring annebeth gish and gena rowlands, but I can't find it. It's about them being prisoners in a Japanese prisoner-of-war camp during word war II. I would really like to buy it if possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.45.213 (talk) 01:33, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Removed the duplicate. RudolfRed (talk) 01:57, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Seems to be a film called "Silent Cries". No article here (although it might well be notable enough for one, as it won a Writers Guild of America Award), but there is an IMDB entry here. FlowerpotmaN·(t)

(Quick addition) It's a TV movie and I'm not sure if it has been released on DVD. I can't find it available for sale online but you might have better luck FlowerpotmaN·(t) 02:11, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

The IMDb entry is here. A DVD under the alternative name of "Guests of the Emperor" is available here. Alansplodge (talk) 02:25, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm looking for a porn movie.

It features two Indian girls in a classroom, one is a dominatrix who uses a strapon on the other. I saw it on the internet a few months ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.28.104.2 (talk) 03:03, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Your best bet would be to search your browser history. Or use a search engine. There will be thousands of videos that would fit that description, and we haven't seen all of them yet.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:02, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

When you find it, be sure to post a link to it here. --Viennese Waltz 08:09, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

American Indian or Indian Indian? Either way, the star might be the famous Princess Snap-on. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:05, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Toronto Blue Jays and the 1998 World Series

The Jays didn't play in the World Series in 1998; they didn't even play in the American League East finals. So, I have an uncut block of 4 tickets for games 1, 2, 6, and 7 in the Skydome for the 1998 World Series and I don't know why or how. I've asked [2] Baseball Bugs and he doesn't know. Does anyone else know? (The tickets are real as far as I can tell, with all the right copyright notices, signatures and logos.) Bielle (talk) 04:12, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Just a wild guess, but since they were only four games behind Boston for the wild card (see 1998 MLB season) it's possible they offered playoff tickets to season ticket holders in advance. Hot Stop 04:19, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

That's an interesting possibility. I did have season's tickets then, though the block I have is not for "my" seats -which is another part of the puzzle. Bielle (talk) 04:23, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Since printing and marketing playoff tickets takes some time, at one point in mid- to late September, MLB gives permission to teams that are in the running for a postseason spot to print and sell playoff tickets (these are of course either fully reimbursable if the team fails to make the postseason, or the purchase price can be used as a downpayment for season tickets the next year). It seems that the 1998 Blue Jays were close enough to a playoff spot to have been given permission to print playoff tickets. --Xuxl (talk) 09:01, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Silly me, I failed to look at the wild card race. Tha Bombers won 114 games that year, leaving everyone in the dust. If the Jays had a shot at the wild card in September, they would have been given permission to print World Series tickets. And of course they would have had no idea who the NL opponent would be. As to it not being the same seating location, keep in mind that in the Series, the best seats are allocated to the bigwigs, and the regular-season holders of those seats are moved elsewhere - maybe unless they're bigwigs also. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:19, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Tickets such as those for games that are never played sometimes become collector's items, usually because most of the ticket-holders trade them in. The value usually is not great, but it could be worth looking into. And with electronic ticketing becoming more prominent, pre-printing of such tickets may not be necessary in the not-too-distant future.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 06:01, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I haven't found anything on line about these tickets, or any others for unplayed games, for that matter. My google-foo is not working it would seem. Thanks for all the ideas! Bielle (talk) 06:07, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Christian Methodist kid

do u think its beneficial for me to have this page open. i want a biased statement from a christian methodist person please thankyou wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.98.160.36 (talk) 05:23, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

i want you to keep my messages private even though u have my ip adress. if someone attacks me or finds me i will hold you all accountable sorry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.98.160.36 (talk) 05:25, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

i want you ALL to know that i am a normal kid and that i am a man of god and a friend of jesus christ i feel more comfortable with a thirdperson view on my page aswell — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.98.160.36 (talk) 05:26, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

i like your complexity in this section it makes me feel more comfortable — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.98.160.36 (talk) 05:27, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

ALWAYS contact me when receiving new imformation please thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.98.160.36 (talk) 05:28, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I added a title to your post. StuRat (talk) 06:15, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

As for privacy, I suggest your create a Wikipedia account, and use this when posting, as that will hide your I/P address. StuRat (talk) 06:17, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

As for whether you should watch this page, that depends on what you want. If you only want to be exposed to things from the Christian Methodist POV, you won't find much of that here. If you are open to other points of view, then that's what we provide. Also, I should warn you that Wikipedia is uncensored, so we sometimes have rather graphic questions and answers on topics like sex. If you actually have questions about religion, then the Humanities Desk would be the best place for those. StuRat (talk) 06:19, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

As for us contacting you when we "receive new info", sorry, we don't do that. We just answer questions on the Reference Desk where they are posted, and it's up to you to come back and check for them periodically. StuRat (talk) 06:26, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Registered users do have the option of receiving an e-mail anytime something on their watch list changes. IP's do not. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:48, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Although when I look at Special:Watchlist I sometimes see recent changes for which I got no notice. —Tamfang (talk) 00:52, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I am a Christian and I go to a Methodist church (though I'm not a lifelong Methodist). I find it beneficial for me to look at this page because I'm interested in learning things and helping out if I can. Staecker (talk) 13:08, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

The uncensored-factor has to be considered, i.e. there are areas of wikipedia that are definitely "not safe for work" - and definitely not for church, unless it's the Church of the Libertine. And even an article that you might think utterly safe to view anywhere can be compromised by vandals posting a photo of their naughty bits or something. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:57, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Interesting. Does the mere exposure to naughty-bits make a Methodist unclean? I would assume according to Jesuit casuistry, as long as the intention was good, wikipedia itself would not be such an occasion of sin that merely exploring it innocently would be soul-endangering. μηδείς (talk) 04:29, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm not talking about "unclean", I'm talking about someone looking over your shoulder and saying, "Hey! What are you looking at?" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:38, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, you literally meant not safe for on the job? I thought you mean not safe for the Lord's work! μηδείς (talk) 14:52, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

That's what "not safe for work" usually means. As regards the Lord's work, that's between you and Him. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:05, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I understand now, but due to the context I thought something like "Christian works" was meant, and given the OP is identified as a "kid" I did not think of a professional cubicled wokplace. μηδείς (talk) 23:27, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

More to the point, then, "Not safe to look at if someone is looking over your shoulder." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:14, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Armed Cruise-Ship escorts in Alaska

Hi everyone. My wife and I took a cruise with NCL recently beginning in Vancouver and ending in Seattle. We sailed first to Ketchikan and then to Juneau and then Skagway where we spent a day in each port before heading back to Vancouver. But as we departed each Alaskan port we were escorted on both sides of the ship by US Coast Guard Boats carrying forward cannons that were manned. They stayed with us for some considerable time before leaving, and each time a float-plane or another boat approached us from the front, the Coast Guard boats would steer them well away from us. The question, arising from conflicting speculation by we passengers is, were they preventing anyone jumping ship on to US soil whilst still close to shore (there were over 1000 crew mainly Asian on board), or were they protecting us from possible terrorist attack from land, sea, or air? Thanks. 77.97.198.209 (talk) 12:22, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Have you tried asking the Coast Guard? Although my guess would be that the specific reason is classified. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:44, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Er, thanks for that useless advice. Our ship, all 97,000 tons of her, was speeding up to about 23 Knots and the Coast Guard(s) were keeping abreast of us at about 50/70 metres from the ship's wake. Oh, next time I go cruising to the USA I will recall your advice and remember to pack my Loud-hailer. Oh, and apologies to everyone who spots this double entry. My mistake entirely. 77.97.198.209 (talk) 12:55, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

No need to be rude, I assume that Bugs meant you contact the Coast guard now, perhaps through their contact page [3]. All anybody here can do is speculate reasons, as you've already done--Jac16888 ^Talk 13:04, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I take it from his snippy response that he thought I meant to literally call out to them, as in, "Ahoy, matey, what's with the escort?" I did, in fact mean to contact them now (as in a phone call) and see if they know anything about it. I expect Jpgordon's info, below, has rendered that call unnecessary. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Not really; one can actually research stuff like this. Here's a 2010 GAO report on relevant security measures. It's a 9/11 thing. What they are doing is enforcing the security zone around the cruise ship. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 16:32, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Community service?

Is serving on a group like a student union, getting student's opinions and feedback about the school and work out solutions with the teachers, considered community service? Another, is offering free tour-guiding to foreign travellers who visit my town considered community service (they don't pay me)?

Like the question earlier today about whether an investment portfolio is considered business or not, it is not possible to give a simple answer to this. It depends who is doing the considering, and for what purpose (and it might also depend on where you are in the world). For example, there might be definitions of "community service" for some purposes in your country - for example, in employment law, social security regulations, immigration law - and they might not even agree which each other. --ColinFine (talk) 17:29, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

It's not a law question. I just mean in a general sense, is it typically okay to be called community service? does it sound reasonable or funny if I call that community service?

This would likely depend on where you live as well as the context. As our Community service hints at, the usage of the term varies between countries. In some countries, the term generally refers to work performed as part of an alternative sentence. Other terms like volunteer work or volunteering are generally used when referring to work people voluntarily. Nil Einne (talk) 18:17, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

There is no objective definition. Community service is usually seen as criminal punishment or as an initiation ritual for statists and altruists. Assume that the activity must be boring, painful, tedious, thankless and unprofitable. Also see involuntary servitude. μηδείς (talk) 21:43, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

It depends where you live. If you are writing a CV (resumé) in the UK, "voluntary work" is good, any reference to "student union/student politics" will put off more employers than it impresses and "community service" means youve been convicted by a court of a minor offence such as vandalism.

Uhm okay so community service has negative implications in your book. What I mean is community contributions. Are those community contributions?

The bottom line question is, in whose eyes and what sort of credit are you looking for? To feel good about contributing for a cause in which you believe? To get ahead in an organization you want to be a part of? To have something on your resume or to impress the family court judge?

The objective theory [of morality] holds that the good is neither an attribute of “things in themselves” nor of man’s emotional states, but an evaluation of the facts of reality by man’s consciousness according to a rational standard of value. . . The objective theory holds that the good is an aspect of reality in relation to man—and that it must be discovered, not invented, by man. Fundamental to an objective theory of values is the question: Of value to whom and for what? --Ayn Rand

μηδείς (talk) 02:45, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

As others have mentioned, it really depends on exactly who's asking and why. For example, if you volunteered to do such work, you'd be perfectly safe in referring to it as such on, say, a resume or job application. You know, something like "From June until September I volunteered at such-and-such and did this, this, and this." However, if this was something you had to do, for example as part of a school assignment or some kind of make-up work, you'd be safer to couch it in more generic terms like "From June until September I did this, this, and this for such-and-such group" where you're making no claim about the circumstances and allowing the reader to infer it. Matt Deres (talk) 20:06, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

How can couriers be sure they are not transporting drugs?

How can couriers (the legal kind, those transporting documents) cross borders? Do they have any right to review their packages or do they insist on having their package analyzed by border agents to avoid any blaming? OsmanRF34 (talk) 19:56, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Couriers don't need to be sure, they only need to avoid any chance of being blamed. Border agents have the right to examine anything they think is suspicious; I don't think very many couriers will feel it is their duty to encourage them. Looie496 (talk) 22:35, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

But if the courier clearly ask to have his package inspected, that would exclude any blaming (that's just speculation). Alternatively, they could routinely be regarded simply as a postman, who happens to carry express docs (speculation again). OsmanRF34 (talk) 23:13, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

The OP's question is right on the edge of asking for legal advice. In any case, I know from some limited experience that getting anything across the border involves various processes, paperwork about the contents of the package, its worth, and so on. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a courier carrying an illegal substance could be detained by the border patrol, whether or not he denies knowing about it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't really think it's legal advice, it's also the kind of question an author might ask or just someone curious. In general I would say that this sort of issue is why most couriers work through agencies and would have their legal assets to protect them if it turned out a package they were assigned was illegal. Much like if I am told to drive the work shuttle between factories at work and it turns out to be full of marijuana, I would have some legal protection. HominidMachinae (talk) 02:34, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Any time you mail something internationally, you have to fill out a customs declaration form [4]. Fedex and UPS incorporated this into their standard shipping form. These forms always contain some variation of "I certify the particulars given in this customs declaration are correct. This item does not contain any dangerous article, or articles prohibited by legislation or by postal or customs regulations.". I imagine this declaration absolves the courier of any wrong-doing if something illegal is shipped. Anonymous.translator (talk) 03:50, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

The term absolution is usually used in the context of Christian theology. In so far as the US Postal Service is a governmentally authorized entity its agents probably have a species of governmental immunity. μηδείς (talk) 04:23, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

The word "absolve" means something different apparently [5].Anonymous.translator (talk) 00:57, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

My point was that absolution is not a legal term http://dictionary.law.com/ in common law, even though it might be relevant in a wider moral sense. The OP seemed to be asking about legal implications, not the morality of drug trafficking. μηδείς (talk) 23:33, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Nobody used the word "absolution" in this discussion except you. I used the word "absolve" to mean "set free from an obligation or the consequences of guilt"[6]. If you think the word "absolve" means something else then I suggest you contact Merriam Webster.Anonymous.translator (talk) 07:27, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Is your point that the OP would be more helped by looking up the word absolve in Merriam Webster than researching the concept of legal immunity? If so, you might want to provide a third link, just in case. μηδείς (talk) 21:31, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

If they ask you to carry the package by putting it a condom and swallowing it, I'd be a tad bit suspicious. :-) StuRat (talk) 04:41, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what kind of couriers are meant, but if diplomatic the article diplomatic bag might be relevant. 128.232.241.211 (talk) 09:55, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm guessing here, but I think everyone else is too. There are a few major international courier companies, which sometimes, not often, have a person accompanying the package through its journey. Because they are major companies, they have lots of procedures in place to protect themselves. They reserve the right to open and examine all packages, and in fact they examine a random sample, using X-rays, sniffer dogs and other technologies. Their staff are trained to alert someone in the hierarchy if they have any suspicions, and they carry documentation that will avert them being blamed if an illegal package has slipped through the net. Then there are some smaller courier companies. They don't have the same level of checking as the major companies, and their staff may be more vulnerable. Itsmejudith (talk) 10:53, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Is such a courier service regarded as a Common carrier? Common carriers are not held responsible for the illegality of the carried goods. Roger (talk) 11:26, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

There's no certain way couriers can protect themselves. If they're to face criminal charges, then indicating that they followed procedures, the customer said there was no drugs inside, etc, may help in their defence. Couriers can't get an absolute immunity because some couriers might use "I'm carrying somebody else's parcel" to cover up their own drug smuggling. Big companies like FedEx will have large legal teams and may be able to stay out of trouble through having good procedures, audit trails, etc, but smaller companies will be much more at risk - if Joe's Removals transports something containing a bag of heroin, then it's going to be Joe's reputation against the customer's. --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:16, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Agree, and trucks coming into UK ferry ports are frequently searched, not just for drugs but also for smuggled people, weapons, animals (UK very concerned about rabies), etc. The drivers are supposed to have checked their loads properly. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:22, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

June 22

Patents and secret recipes/formulas

I hope this isn't considered legal advice, as I just want clarifications on some things. I just saw a product which says "patented formula". Does this mean that the formula cannot be kept secret, or it can? I'm aware that Coke's formula was never patented to keep the formula a secret, but does this mean that if a recipe is patented, the recipe must be made public? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:44, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

My understanding: yes. By patenting a thing, you get protection in exchange for the publication of etals of that which is protected. --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:47, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Patents by definition are always open to viewing (at least they are in the US and other countries with similar systems). (There are a few exceptions. This is not a trans-historical statement — in the US, compulsory disclosure of patent contents was not established until the 19th century, I don't think.) Trade secrets, by contrast, are not. (The latter do have some legal protections, e.g. against industrial espionage, but are not officially licensed monopolies in the same way that a patent is.) As to whether they contain everything necessary to replicate a given device or formula or invention... not always. The key term here is sufficiency of disclosure — and it's a tricky thing. A very clever patent lawyer, paired with an inattentive patent examiner, can lead to patents that grant monopolies but don't give quite enough information to replicate the actual invention. --Mr.98 (talk) 14:27, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Note: Coca-Cola indeed has | lots of patents, some are already expired, and it even patented the original formula in 1893 (but not the subsequent formula). OsmanRF34 (talk) 15:19, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

As an anecdote, I once heard that many German chemical patents filed in the U.S. Patent Office during the late 19th to early 20th centuries often had deliberately misleading information. Thus, when America joined World War I, in 1917—and nationalized Bayer's, BASF's, etc. patents—they were totally useless to our scientists since faithfully following the formulas resulted in useless chemicals, violent explosions, or even highly toxic gas clouds! (Whoever said "war is ugly" certainly wasn't kidding!) Pine (talk) 01:42, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

That sounds highly apocryphal to me. That Europe would have been engulfed in endless war would have been non-obvious before it happened; that the United States would have joined the war was unclear even until the moment it did. If the Germans were that sneaky — and frankly I doubt it, because it's not that clever a scheme for all the work it would have required — the obvious targets would have been France and the U.K., not the USA. The US did suffer from the lack of access to the German chemical industry during WWI, and in its attempts to rapidly organize a parallel industry in the United States there were plenty of opportunities for problems (James B. Conant was involved in a war-profiteering scheme early on as a young chemist, and the result was a plant explosion that killed his partner) but the fault there wasn't from German patent sabotage (in Conant's case, it was from inexperience at industrial chemistry). Sorry to be a spoil-sport, but I don't buy it... --Mr.98 (talk) 02:49, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

My late ex-mother-in-law was a chef. She once told me that the top chefs are very loath to divulge their secrets, so when they produce their cookbooks, what you'll be given are recipes that are perfectly OK but still omit some special ingredients or techniques that make them really stand out. You have to work those out for yourself if you have the imagination, or pay money and eat at their restaurants. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 20:08, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Back window automatic screen thingy in Lexus

Hi. I let someone in a big, shiny Lexus pull out of his driveway in front of me yesterday. As he did so, my eye was caught by something sliding up the inside of his back windscreen. It appeared to be some kind of mesh. It looked like he was the only one in the car, so I presume there was some mechanism that was pulling it up. The car was not a convertible. Any ideas what it is? --Dweller (talk) 15:14, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure it was not a convertible? -LarryMac | Talk 15:18, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

It was definitely not a convertible. If it's any help, I think it was a 600 - ([7]) on that site you pointed to. --Dweller (talk) 15:42, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I was trying to point out that Lexus has at least two retractable hard-tops that you wouldn't know are convertibles at a glance. Of course, all the images I can find show the IS250C (and its big brother the IS350C) with the top down, so they're not very helpful. --LarryMac | Talk 16:10, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

What I saw was something that looked soft, sliding up inside the rear windscreen, not something hard sliding up on the outside. --Dweller (talk) 17:13, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

The additional responses below notwithstanding ... a hard-top convertible would not appear to be a convertible at first glance, but still would have use for a retractable windscreen. It would be unusual to raise that screen when the roof is up, but not unheard of, because it can, indeed, act as a shade. --LarryMac | Talk 18:15, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to assume that Dweller is competent enough to recognize a convertible, hardtop or not. The roof seams on hardtop cabrios are pretty obvious. Plus the picture he linked to has four doors, not two. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 18:58, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

It was likely the power rear sunscreen. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 17:24, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

My car (not a Lexus) also has one of these, although the manufacturer in question refers to it as an "electrically operated rear window blind". Electrically operated by a button in the centre of the dashboard. It's useful for when vehicles with overly bright headlights insist on following you at a close distance, when impatient drivers flash their headlights at you for no practical purpose, and (probably in this case) if one sets off driving then realises that bright sunlight will be mainly behind the car during the journey. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:31, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, that sounds right. It was a very sunny day. --Dweller (talk) 22:20, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Biracial people

Why are most biracial people half-white? --108.227.31.151 (talk) 23:39, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Are they? Where? HiLo48 (talk) 23:57, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps its because that they are the people that YOU notice and you are oblivious to those that that aren’t. Called the fallacy of confirmation bias if I remember right.--Aspro (talk) 00:05, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

• If you take the existing races to be caucasoid, negroid, and mongoloid (the most common classification), then the answer is not hard to figure out. Looie496 (talk) 00:25, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I suspect that everyone who is exactly half-white is also half something else. :-) StuRat (talk) 01:07, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure you're correct that they are, but it wouldn't surprise me. Europeans have a longer and wider history of spreading themselves all over the world (in comparison to, say, sub-Saharan "black" Africans, or to the Tibetans). Over the last five centuries or so, Europeans have dipped their, uh, influences in pretty much every every nook and cranny of the globe. For example, Europeans went to Tierra del Fuego, Japan, and Senegal. Not many Senegalese made their way to Japan, nor did many folks from TdF make their way to the African coast, and so on. All this is, of course, complicated by the fact that a term like "race" is an extremely tricky word to pin down into anything meaningful. Matt Deres (talk) 01:45, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

That's a good answer to a bad question. μηδείς (talk) 02:49, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

WAG: Most of the interracial slavery was of blacks by whites, the native American slaves mostly dying off, giving more opportunity for forced procreation. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:27, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

If you mean precisely 50% "white", I doubt that in America they are, other than President Obama. Most "African-Americans" have a lot of European ancestors, so that when the average "black" American and "white" American have a child, that biracial child is a lot more than 50% European/white. If you mean more loosely, that biracial couples tend to involve one "white" person, that's probably because the largest group in America along such arbitrary divisions is still "white". Gzuckier (talk) 03:58, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

By massively far, "most people" does not mean "most people in the US". --NellieBlyMobile (talk) 19:50, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

June 23

verifying information

Hi, could someone please look at a source and verify that a certain quote is in that article? This article Blackwater Baghdad shootings has the following text:

On April 1, 2011, the Associated Press reported that the FBI scientists were unable to match bullets from the square to guns carried by the Blackwater guards and investigators found foreign cartridge cases not used by U.S. or Blackwater personnel.

I read it and the source and noted that this statement is a bit biased and misleading as an important part has been left out.

I added this text (quote from the AP article) (here in bold to show the added text)

On April 1, 2011, the Associated Press reported that the FBI scientists were unable to match bullets from the square to guns carried by the Blackwater guards and investigators found foreign cartridge cases not used by U.S. or Blackwater personnel though "shootings are not uncommon in Nisoor Square and those shells could have been left behind before or after the Blackwater shooting."

But shootings are not uncommon in Nisoor Square and those shells could have been left behind before or after the Blackwater shooting.

The source

Another editor removed my addition three times.

1) "that quote is not in the source."

2) this quote is NOT in the article. clearly you need to read it.

(i read it the third time by then and told him on the talk page where the quote is exactly.)

3) that is not the quote in the article. stop adding your pov

(I also told him not to attack me i do not like fights and edit wars, so i came here to ask)

My question could someone please look at the source (about the 11th paragraph) and verify that the quote is there and that it has been added to the article without changing the meaning. And if so could someone please add this to the article? That would be very kind. Thanks in advance. Kai9045 (talk) 06:15, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I can't find that quote anywhere in the article. What you inserted is a paraphrase, not a quotation. Quotations should ideally be verbatim from the source; any alterations made must be clearly marked (which you didn't). Please refer to Wikipedia:Quotations. A quotation would be: "Shootings in the square were not uncommon, making it unclear whether shells were from the shooting in question or from other incidents." Anonymous.translator (talk) 08:58, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your reply. I think i found the cause for the confusion. :)) Silly me. It is actually a quote but from a different source. The statements are very similar in words and express both the same. I did not alter the quote but i confused the sources. This is the source.

"...shootings are not uncommon in Nisoor Square and those shells could have been left behind before or after the Blackwater shooting."

I will fix that in the article accordingly. Thanks again Anonymous.translator for your information and help. Kai9045 (talk) 14:36, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

sent letter wrong postcode

hi. I sent a letter to an address in London but think i put the wrong postcode - completely wrong, from a different letter i had to send. since the adreess was fine, should it still arrive anyway? Thanks Amisom (talk) 18:45, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

They sort by the postal code first. Once they send it to that postal code and the local carrier determines that there is no such address within that postal code, several things could happen:

1) They might return it as undeliverable.

2) They might determine the correct postal code from the street address, write that on the letter, and send it on.

3) They might just drop it in a "dead letter office", especially if it lacks a return address.

So, I wouldn't count on it being delivered. If it is, it would likely be delayed. I suggest you mail another copy, with the correct postal code. StuRat (talk) 18:56, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Royal Mail prides themselves on delivering badly addressed mail. It will be delayed, because the automated processes won't work, but as long as there is enough on the address for them to identify the intended recipient, they will deliver it. --Tango (talk) 19:04, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

i cant send a copy because it was a form, but i did put my address on the back so i should get it back if there's a problem.. But i put the right address and name of the company so Tango makes me hopful! Thanks. Amisom (talk) 19:12, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I think Tango is probably correct. For all the grief we sometimes give them, postal delivery services make a pretty decent effort to make sure our letters get where they need to; there are all kinds of stories out there about cryptically addressed letters making their way to the right recipient, albeit sometimes with a delay. Matt Deres (talk) 19:58, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

It also matters how wrong the post code is. Have been in the same situation in the US. The UK should be the same, or considering the size of the country, better. If the first digit is off, in the US it can go thousands of miles astray, and a month or so delay is possible. If later digits/letters, then it will first end up nearer to the correct destination and be delivered quicker, with only a day or days delay. The best case being if the error is at the end & it goes to the correct post office, which will give hardly any delay. Post offices always strive to do #2 above if possible, as Tango says.John Z (talk) 21:44, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

It also depends on whether the street address is unique within London. Say the letter is addressed to 17 Kensington Church Street, that's no problem as there is only one street by that name. But a London A-Z I have here lists eighteen Victoria Roads so in that case the chances are lower. Sussexonian (talk) 23:38, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

If all else fails the letter goes to the National Returns Centre in Belfast. There they open it and try to figure out the sender, to whom they return it. If they can't figure out to whom to return it, they keep it for 4 months (cf that last link) and then they dispose of it. Valuable stuff they auction off, the rest they shred (ref). I have to feel for the people there who have to hand-open packages, which are mostly innocent stuff but just occasionally are scary, if thoroughly incompetently made, bombs. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 00:00, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

June 24

Mrs. M. Whitfield

Can any user please give me information on Mrs. M. Whitfield, B.A., LL.B, who was a teacher of French and German at Carmel College, Wallingford, Oxfordshire, England, from October 1954 onwards. Thank you. Simonschaim (talk) 07:24, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

You might start by asking that college for info. I imagine that basic biographical info would be released freely. StuRat (talk) 07:37, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you StuRat. I should have mentioned that the college closed in 1997. Simonschaim (talk) 08:37, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd imagine your best bet would be to get the telephone directory for the area and go through the Whitfield entries in the hope you might find a relative. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:04, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

mosquitoes

is there any plant which you can grow in your garden to keep mosquitoes away — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.110.213.112 (talk) 07:48, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Probably not directly, but some plants suck up standing groundwater, where mosquitoes breed, and that would certainly help. StuRat (talk) 07:52, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

There are a number of plants listed in our article at Insect repellent#Insect repellents from natural sources.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:56, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but probably not in the way you want. Lemongrass and geraniums are two common plants that contain natural mosquito repellents,[8] but they will not repel mosquitoes by simply growing in your yard. You have to grow them, and then take a part of the plant and rub in on your body. So, in the end, it's no different than just picking up some organic repellent from the store. It is a common misconception that there are "magical plants" that will repel mosquitoes simply by being present in your yard. They do not exist...or at least, they do not repel mosquitoes enough to be noticeable. The best way to prevent mosquitoes is to avoid standing water of any sort, and to talk to your neighbors about avoiding standing water in their yards. Quinn ^✹SUNSHINE 14:56, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh also, just a tip: If there is a certain place in your yard you like to sit, like a patio or deck, an oscillating fan can work wonders in keeping the mosquitoes away, but only if you sit in the air current of the fan. Quinn ^✹SUNSHINE 14:59, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Note that the OP geolocates to Mumbai, which I think is a challenging environment for mosquito control. Looie496 (talk) 15:32, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Othello (2001): John Othello and Ben Jago?

Double-posted question: Do not answer here
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I have a question regarding the relationship between John Othello and Ben Jago? They share a very complex relationship and I'm struggling to put it to words. Because even though, throughout the film, Jago is hellbent on sabotaging John Othello at the start he states (about Othello), "I loved him to you know". Any help is greatly appreciated! 220.233.24.164 (talk) 08:19, 24 June 2012 (UTC) Please read the rules, particularly about NOT posting questions to more than one desk. The Entertainment desk is where this belongs, and it will be answered there. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 08:26, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

killing a goat

Ok so if I was firing my gun in the yard for example and then I was to fire off a round and it hits a goat in the head in the nex yard along and the goat dies, am I committing murder or manslaughter, and also what are the chances that the same time I fired possibly someone came passed in a car and shoots the goat in a drive by, and that my shot actually went off and did not hit the goat, or that the goat had a heart attack and dited and it's not anything to do with the gun, or actually has already dropped to the ground dead before the bullet hits, if I can't actually get up to the goat and see if there's a wound in it and if it's a death-dealing wound if there is, and would it be best to just keep quiet and hide the gun. My neighbour isn't home Roger 11 Handyman (talk) 17:51, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Please note that Wikipedia cannot and does not give legal advice. If you find yourself in any of the situations described above please contact your lawyer. Having said that, your question immediately made me think of a story from Sweden where a hunter shot an elk, the bullet passed straight through the animal and killed a skier 60m away. The hunter was acquitted. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 18:02, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

In reading the story of a bullet passing through an elk and hitting a skier "Just 60 metres beyond the felled beast" I am surprised that most of the commentary surrounding the incident concerns the passing of the bullet clear through the elk before hitting the skier. Isn't it equally noteworthy that a skier was situated near to where the hunting of elk was presumably permitted? It is not unheard of to miss a target. The hunter could just as well have missed the elk entirely and hit the skier. Bus stop (talk) 18:39, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Ditto: You do not even say what country you live in (and I don't want to know – unless you live next-door to me so that I know its time to move). We don't give legal advice here. For instance, lets take the first point. If you shoot a goat in the next yard your bullet has travelled across your neighbours property – in many places that is a serious fire arms offence. You're in need of asking your local legal eagles (or even police)for some basic law education.--Aspro (talk) 18:09, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

In the USA, at least, there is no such law as "murder" or "manslaughter" in regard to animals. That doesn't mean there's no crime. There are any number of possible crimes, including crimes against openly discharging a gun within city limits, and negligent destruction of someone else's property. But you can't "murder" an animal. Ain't no such thing. Only humans can be "murdered". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:48, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

As you say this is only an example, presumably it doesn't matter whether your neighbour is really home or not, or even whether you really have a neighbour with a goat. But I think the odds of a drive-by shooting of a goat are pretty low wherever the hell it is you live. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:12, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I love logical fallacies. Could a neighbourhood plagued with drive-by-shooting, fill the front their gardens with goats? Hell, I couldn’t let off a shot... the whole dam place is full of goats. Drive round the block again and hit the @%%*** horn this time - an' try scare 'erm off!!! Noap... Dar billies are still milling around like Rowdy Yates is yelling get 'em up little doggies' – Awe... , , , let's go find some street signs to shoot at. Look boz man -theirs one! What's it say – How do I know? I'm still in third grade! I don't know either but it gotta' be easier than goats. --Aspro (talk) 21:50, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Is it okay to copy wikipedia then change it and put it on your own server? (I think some patent or copyright infringment is going on?)

Hello I recently came across a terrible web page at http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page

When I looked for wikipedia this site came up and I saw that they copied the wikipedia format, syntax and in fact they cite wikipedia

at http://www.conservapedia.com/Wikipedia

(I copied the page below I find it to be possibly liable and or slander!) I Love wikipedia, and think the people who come together here are of the finest ilk, to see a group say terrible things about wikipedia and lie (the very beginning phrase "left leaning communist" to begin with not to mention the copyright breaches they commit while insulting,,?? )

I am at a loss of words, I would strongly urge others to look into this legally (In America the copyright laws are being aggressively exercised and for once I support it,, I hope someone can begin a exchange with these people to remove the identifiable identity of wikipedia from their server, and or at least correct their denigrating those they copy.

I also wish to say thank-you to everyone at Wikipedia for helping build what I consider about the best reference since the oxford dictionary.

(below is the quote from the page I linked at the top of this message) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jstavene (talk • contribs)

massive cut-and-paste redacted by me -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 18:24, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Hey pal, there no need to quote it all but as you do, I think it depends on your outlook, this is clear a matter of opinion and I think once the text has gone down then it's open for all to use, but I don think what you wrote is necessarily a bad stuff Roger 11 Handyman (talk) 18:23, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I've removed your massive cut and paste from that site. Pasting it here without adequate attribution is surely a violation of copyright (even if it's all from Wikipedia, which it clearly isn't). And if you think something is defamatory, the last thing you should be doing is pasting it again here. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 18:26, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Honestly I think that their article about us is hilarious, it's badly sourced and so blatantly biased it's laughable. --Jac16888 ^Talk 18:32, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

But their articles on non-controversial subjects are also laughable. Oak tree. Orissa. No article for Creuse, either the department or the river. I pity any teenager trying to use it for their homework. Itsmejudith (talk) 19:53, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

They think Garret Hobart was a former congressman from Ohio ...--Wehwalt (talk) 20:20, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Heh. I checked out their article on Julia Gillard. I didn't get past the lede, so filled was it with errors of fact, bias etc:

• The election was much closer than expected and almost resulted in a hung parlaiment [sic]. - No, it did result in a hung parliament
• Her government is … a coalition of seventy-two members of the Australian Labour [sic] Party, one Green Party member and three independants [sic] (a total of 76 seats) – No, it is not a coalition; the ALP changed its spelling from Labour to Labor in 1911; other spelling errors
• Gillard's liberal Labour [sic] Party Government is the most unpopular for 15 years, largely due to her misguided attempt at a carbon tax to combat "climate change" – that such a biased statement (and one that ridicules climate change by the use of quotes) could grace the article on the PM of a developed nation speaks volumes about Conservopedia. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 21:15, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Was just looking at the Atheism article (got to it from "The project was initiated by atheist and entrepreneur Jimmy Wales", imagine if we preceded everyones name with their religious belief), which would be funny if it wasn't so depressing that people actual think these things. "Atheism offers no condemnation of rape and it provides no moral basis a society to attempt to prevent and deter rape" [9]. straight atheist liberal(ish) english administrator Jac16888 ^Talk 21:38, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Dear OP, no one has said it yet, so I would like to thank you for your concern for the reputation of Wikipedia, and for your praise of us/it as a reference. We would be delighted to have you on board as an editor. Please consider joining us! BrainyBabe (talk) 21:05, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

To actually address the question; all text written by contributors to Wikipedia is available for others to use under either CC-BY-SA or GFDL licences [10]. Whether Conservapedia's copyright policy is compatible with either licence, or indeed whether Conservapedia's copyright policy makes any sense at all, is not for me to say. Conservapedia saying ridiculous things about Wikipedia (or anything else) is not a copyright issue, but as you rightly say possibly a case of defamation. I don't know what you mean by "identifiable identity of wikipedia", but if you simply mean the visual similarities between the two websites, that is because Conservapedia is built using MediaWiki software, originally created for Wikipedia, but freely available and used to create thousands of wikis on the WWW. FiggyBee (talk) 21:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

June 25

CNN International GMT schedule vs Toronto (Eastern Time Zone)

Is there a website that shows the CNN International schedule in GMT vs Eastern Time Zone meaning for Toronto? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.29.34.54 (talk) 02:46, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The site has a North American schedule that shows in Pacific Time and Eastern Time. Is this what you are looking for? Bielle (talk) 03:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Regarding md5 format in jmeter

In my project there is a scenario that user will log in -> browse some pages -> then he will click on the logout link . to test this scenario in jemeter , i used csv config so that i can test this scenario for 50 users. during login to the system password are not sent in md5 format but during logout ,each user passowrd is sent as request in the md5 format. so can any body tell me how can i sent the password in md5 format in jmeter. if i use the the same variable which i used for passowrd during login , with encode option clicked , will it work.

please help me — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.234.62.66 (talk) 07:15, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

cotswold stone

hi dear freinds if anybody has heard or know aabout cotswold stone in uk can help me this stone is rare found this days however i fave found a quarry in india which according to me matches 90% of cotswold sone if anybody is in this field can help me there are roof tiles and also slates for flooring my no is 919099965166