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June 5

Shakespear

IN THE 1990 MOVIE, tUMBLE WEEDS, A TEENAGE GIRL WHO WAS TRYING OUT FOR THE PART OF Romeo, was encourage by a male adult to continue, when she expressed having difficulity with the cadence of the lines. HE TOLD HER THAT HE WROTE TO THE BEAT OF THE HUMAN HEART, THUMP THUMP,,ITY THUMB, AND use that as a guide, has that ever been referenced.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guyaly (talk • contribs) 01:41, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Is your question whether Shakespeare consciously wrote to the beat of the human heart? You can find numerous references that the iambic pentameter (very frequently used by Shakespeare) accompanies the heart's rhythm (tha THUMP), lasting five beats or one breath (see article). You can find texts that argue that it's plausible that he was aware of this (his frequent references to "beat" as rhythm, the fact that poetry was seen as having calming or even medicinal powers at his time, for example in "Making Sense of Shakespeare", by Charles H. Frey, Fairleigh Dickinson Univ Press, 1999, ISBN 9780838638316), but I wasn't able to find any "proof" that this was his intention. ---Sluzzelin talk 02:25, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia page appears to have been hacked...

The Wikipedia entry at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Jilin_Baoyuanfeng_poultry_plant_fire

appears to have been hacked. It shows the poultry processing plant as being in Pyongyang, and that a missile launch was involved:

"On 35 May 1813, a missile launch at a poultry processing plant in Pyongyang (米沙子镇),[2] a town about 900,000,000,009,000,000,000,000 km (5.59234073019×1023 mi) from the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, killed at least 1200 trillion people.[4][5] More than 60 others were hospitalised with injuries.[3]"

Just thought someone should know... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkideals (talk • contribs) 07:20, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Not hacked. Vandalised. An unfortunate, occasional consequence of our policy that anyone can edit Wikipedia. It's been fixed. HiLo48 (talk) 07:26, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

(Sounds like the plot of a Hubbard novel. μηδείς (talk) 00:18, 6 June 2013 (UTC))

Elbert or L. Ron? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 22:25, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Wow, surprised I never heard of Elbert Hubbard. What a fascinating story! [this was me] μηδείς (talk) 03:44, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Test: Seemingly editing the ref desk page, but actually updating the archive page. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:00, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Bird Seed: "Article Feedback Page not enabled for this page"

This is just an FYI.....

I looked up "Bird Seed" because I wanted to know what seeds (or "food") is found in the COMMON Bag of Bird Seed.

I tried to post the following question at the end of the Bird Seed Article, but received the following message: Article Feedback Page not enabled for this page

The question I asked was, "What seeds, or 'food,' is typically found in a bag of general or 'all purpose' bird feed for use in outdoor bird feeders? An "all purpose" BAG of bird food would be something you would find at Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, etc. Thanks!"

Thank you! Michelle — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.5.109.131 (talk) 15:01, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

You've come to the right place for general knowledge questions like that. "Article feedback" is a tool for a specific purpose, that of rating how good an article is: asking questions related to an article is not regarded as "feedback" in Wikipedia. You could also post the question on the article's Talk page Talk:Bird food; but that page is for improving the article, not asking question about it. So if you wanted to suggest that (referenced!) information about the composition of bird seed be discussed in the article, the Talk page would be the right place. But for your general question, this is the right place. (I don't know the answer, by the way, so I'm leaving that for somebody who does). --ColinFine (talk) 15:52, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Did you read bird seed? It lists sunflower seeds, safflower seed and millet near the top. A common wal-mart bag will mostly be cracked corn (surprising redlink), with some sunflower and millet mixed in. Other mixes might contain niger seed. Keep in mind cracked corn is the cheapest and least nutritious for birds, so more expensive brands will have less of that. Any decent brand should list the ingredients on the bag, if it doesn't buy a different brand that does :) SemanticMantis (talk) 16:10, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

different styles of wearing hijab

is there a website that shows different ways of wearing hijab with pictures? My sister's friend wants to know.--Donmust90 (talk) 16:04, 5 June 2013 (UTC)Donmust90

For anything fashion these days, go to pinterest. Here [1] a page there dedicated to hijab styles. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Is that another way of asking this question?[2] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

How do I estimate the wholesale price?

I'm considering becoming a part time general trader in Africa as a hobby/sideline. In one Africa capital, the lowest priced Android phone was approx $59 at the the electronics table of the supermarket. If the retail price is $59, what is the general range of the unit price that the retailer paid to the wholesaler/distributor who brought and cleared the Androids to port and cleared it?

Many thanks.

Grrfooo (talk) 18:15, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

There is no way to know unless somebody tells you. Retailers won't charge less than they paid if they can help it, but beyond that, they will charge as much as they think they can get. Looie496 (talk) 18:25, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

...and with all respect, given the cluelessness of the question I would advise you against trying to operate in such a cutthroat environment. Looie496 (talk) 18:27, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes. When you play the Game of Phones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:17, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Question restated: did Aphrodite her girdle as a shield for King Anchises

This part of my question wasn't answered. Venustar84 (talk) 23:31, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Your question still no verb. AlexTiefling (talk) 23:47, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, what are you suggesting she did with her girdle? HiLo48 (talk) 02:08, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Robert Graves certainly tells the story so in The Greek Myths (section g), citing as his source Servius' commentary on the Aeneid. But the cited passage in Servius (last sentence) makes no specific mention of her girdle in this context, so Graves's "interposed her girdle" would seem to be a bit of embroidery on his part. Deor (talk) 13:21, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

June 6

Eating bad salt

Approximately two thousand years ago, what would happen to you if you had consumed salt that "had gone bad"? What would it taste like? If you can't use it for the soil or for the manure pile, then what can you use it for besides discarding it? Sneazy (talk) 00:56, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

It was probably just sand or clay. So pretty tastless but no good for your teeth! Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:51, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Is this a reference to something Biblical? Salt doesn't go bad. That's why we can mine it from places where it's been sitting for millions of years and use it safely with almost no processing. HiLo48 (talk) 02:06, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

HiLo: I think Sneazy is making a reference to Matthew 5:13:

You are the salt of the earth; but if salt has lost its taste, how can its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything, but is thrown out and trampled under foot.

I think we can all agree, Christian or not, that this quotation does not in and of itself imply that salt can "go bad", or that Jesus thought it could. I recall vague speculation that what people of the time used for "salt" was some impure version that could lose its saltiness (say, by having all the actual salt leach out of it, though how this would happen in practice is obscure to me), but be that as it may, the saying does not imply any such thing; it works just fine even if salt cannot, in reality, lose its taste. --Trovatore (talk) 03:29, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, I just read that ancient salt was not pure sodium chloride, so the other material in the salt could go bad and cause the salt to be no good. I am wondering what is the so-called "other material". [Taken from The New Oxford Annotated Bible, New Revised Standard Version with the Apocrypha (ecumenical study bible, third augmented edition.)] Sneazy (talk) 02:16, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Modern salt isn't pure sodium chloride either. (Ancient salt was often sea salt, rather than rock salt. But they are all simple chemical salts, none of which 'go bad'. The statement is an interesting proof Jesus is not a modern hoax. μηδείς (talk) 02:22, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I thought you were going to say "iodised salt" for modern salt. Table salt is iodised to reduce instances of goitres. What do you mean by "modern hoax"? Sneazy (talk) 02:36, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

And adding to Medeis' comment - even though modern salt isn't pure sodium chloride, most of it is, and it's a very good preservative in its own right, so going bad just doesn't seem likely. HiLo48 (talk) 03:06, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Sneazy, I am an atheist. But I am certain of the historical reality of Jesus, while many (often militant) anti-theists bring his actual reality into question. See Historicity of Jesus. One of the best proofs of his actual existence is that the gospels quote him as saying things that are just plain false or which put him in a bad light (getting angry at the money changers, doubting on the cross) according to Christian teaching. This is called evidence against interest. His not knowing that, chemically, his saying was nonsense, is evidence he existed as a man of his age. μηδείς (talk) 03:38, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I do recall watching a film titled Passion of the Christ (2004), directed by Mel Gibson. The actor who plays Jesus begins to doubt on the cross. So, the director would have allowed that to be filmed. Plus, Mel Gibson, according to the Wiki article is raised a "Traditionalist Catholic". Apparently, a traditionalist catholic has no problems with doubting on the cross. Sneazy (talk) 14:00, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

That actor, Jim Caviezel ironically reports to a different sort of "god" now. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:12, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Our article describes Caviezel as a Catholic. I'm not at all sure what you're alluding to here. AlexTiefling (talk) 15:44, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

"The Machine" in Person of Interest. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:10, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

In biblical scholarship specifically, the principle you're talking about is called the criterion of embarrassment, although the application there is slightly different — it's one technique used to distinguish genuine sayings or events from ones that might have been made up later. But as I say above, I don't really agree with the applicability in this particular case, because the saying is still quite comprehensible without any need to posit salt that can de-saltify itself. It's just saying, suppose you went to your pantry and found that your salt had no taste. What good would it be? What would you do with it? And what good would you be, if you lost your metaphorical saltness, whatever exactly that is? --Trovatore (talk) 03:55, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, you mentioned that criterion before, but I couldn't remember the phrase. My point was, since no omniscient god would use such an example (given he would know it was unscientific) we can actually credit the statement to a real person. But you are right it doesn't embarrass Jesus particularly--others of his age might have said it. μηδείς (talk) 04:59, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I dispute the claim that it would be embarrassing to anyone, in any age. It's a counterfactual. Suppose salt lost its saltness — what good would it be? It's a perfectly good question, whether there's any way for salt to lose its saltness or not. --Trovatore (talk) 07:39, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

You're misunderstanding my point, which is not all that vital anyway. The statement itself appears to be a gnostic metaphor, with salt standing for wisdom. The "embarrassment" would be that any educated person would know salt is a pure substance, and that you can't add some factor to pure salt to get it to taste saltier. So, if someone were creating a hoax Jesus, rather than reporting actual teachings, it's unlikely these are words they would craft for him to supposedly have said. μηδείς (talk) 22:29, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I think you're misunderstanding my point. It doesn't matter whether salt can lose its saltiness or not (who mentioned making it taste saltier? That's not in there at all; only losing the salty taste is discussed.). In fact, it almost works better if it's understood that this is something that can never happen, because paradoxes get people's attention and make them think more deeply about what is being said. As to whether a hoaxer would invent it, I suppose it depends on whether he's clever enough to go for that paradox on his own initiative. --Trovatore (talk) 01:06, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

To put it simply, no. Let's end this here. You can ask on my talk page if you have any questions about what I have been trying to explain. μηδείς (talk) 04:16, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

I always wonder about translations and interpretations at times like this. That Biblical quote from Trovatore doesn't mention salt going bad, rather salt losing its taste and being no longer good for anything. So our OP's words don't seem entirely accurate, but maybe there were multiple possible meanings of the original words anyway. Do the serious scholars have much to say on this? HiLo48 (talk) 04:00, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

• It is possible for salt to go bad, not in the sense of becoming dangerous, but in the sense of becoming nasty. If it isn't kept in a good container it can absorb water from the air, and then if it is exposed to unpleasant odors, they can be absorbed into the water. The result can be salt that smells or tastes foul -- moldy, for example. Looie496 (talk) 05:35, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

The expression is actually taken from Luke 14:34-35 in this English form in the specific bible version that I mentioned: "Salt is good; but if salt has lost its taste, how can saltiness be restored? It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; they throw it away. Let anyone with ears to hear listen!" Below the text are the annotations. The editors note that the mentions about salt are also on Matthew 5:13 and Mark 9:49-50. They explain that the saying warns against lackadaisical discipleship, and that ancient salt was not pure sodium chloride, so the other material in the salt could go bad and cause the salt to be no good. I think Looie496 is onto something. Sneazy (talk) 13:39, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Salt in the Bible#Salt in the New Testament suggests that the salt becomes mixed with another mineral. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 16:44, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

In response to the two posts above, it's already been pointed out several times in this thread that modern "domestic" salt isn't pure sodium chloride either. I don't think we have an explanation yet. HiLo48 (talk) 21:55, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I think I may have it, but would like the translation checked against the Greek. The salt may have been used to cure meat. Perhaps on repeated occasions, with the brine dried out each time, which can be repeated but not indefinitely. If that was the major bulk use of salt in the eastern Med, as it would have been in C19 rural France for instance, then the idea of salt losing its savour would have been familiar enough to make sense as a metaphor. Itsmejudith (talk) 05:18, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

• Think some people are on the right track but miss the the ancient practices in salt commerce. Dead Sea salt straight out of the evaporation ponds is of very low quality. It has other minerals (like magnesium and calcium) . To improve the quality it is dissolved again and the first crystals to come out of the solute is sodium chloride. Top grade table salt. The remainder is still a valuable commodity and still has much sodium chloride and potassium chloride in it. So it is useful for curing meats etc. Therefore, it would have been transported for sale in markets hundreds of miles away. Should this dross or grunge left over from the Dead Sea salt's first separation, be further processed in these new locations to remove much of the remaining sodium/potassium chloride (to produce table salt) then the salt left behind has lost is saviour. The dross is no longer any good for curing or if spread on the land it inhibits the roots of plants from taking up moister – it is of no use. All the goodness (sodium/potassium)has been taken out of it and there is nothing one can do to redeem it. Yet, as it came out of a salt pan, the ancients still considered it to be salt by definition alone.--Aspro (talk) 12:41, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Think I'd better explain that further. In ancient Geek, AΛΣ is: the sea, and 'a lump of salt'. The Gweeks did not have any concept of the periodic table back then, not sodium chloride nor potassium chloride nor magnesium... etc., so the whole of the precipitate from the water was considered AΛΣ or salt. By processing, the original precipitate lost its most valued quality and in the days when everything was recycled – the dross had no use. Even if incorporated into mud brick the hygroscopic nature would course recrystallisation and make the brick friable. The only earthy use I can think for this dross, is to serve as an example for some theological analogy. However, in the modern age the point is lost as it no longer resonates with the hoi polio's every day experiances. --Aspro (talk) 13:31, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, if there really is no other use for this "salt", then it must be a very good theological analogy! Sometimes, analogies are not perfect, because due to the nature of the object that one is turning into a metaphor, there are exceptions. Sneazy (talk) 14:24, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it seems that neither the analogy nor the translation is perfect. HiLo48 (talk) 21:40, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Distance calculation

What point would be equidistant from Birmingham, London and Cardiff? I presume it would be in England. --TammyMoet (talk) 15:39, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

As a first approximation, using simple geometry on Google maps, it is somewhere close to Ashbury in Oxfordshire. The exact location will depend on where exactly you locate the centres of Birmingham, London and Cardiff, and whether you treat the Earth as a true sphere or allow for it's non-spherical distortions (I'm assuming you mean 'nearest point on the surface' - the actual nearest point will probably be below ground level). AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:03, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Using Google Earth's measurement tool (which gives the great circle distance) and its idea of the centre of each city and some ruler geometry, I get a point roughly 10 miles SW of Ashbury, near Chiseldon in Wiltshire, for the circumcentre (almost exactly bisecting the Cardiff/London path). That point should be 65 miles from each. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 16:35, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! The reason for my question was: The ICC Champions Trophy is taking place in England, at venues in Cardiff, Birmingham and London. For someone wanting to go to all the games, where would be the most sensible location to base oneself? I'd ruled out basing in one of the cities and travelling to the other cities, as it occurred to me that the three cities formed a triangle. In that case it should have been easy to triangulate a point, as you have both done. (I'd have done it myself but I wasn't in reach of my paper map, and I tried on Google Maps, but the nearest I got was Swindon/Milton Keynes. I was sure that wasn't right.) --TammyMoet (talk) 19:44, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Swindon is close to the circumcentre - Milton Keynes is roughly equidistant between Birmingham and London, but a long way from Cardiff. Is distance really the issue, though, or travelling time? And how are you proposing to travel? AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:55, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Firstly I should say that this is a thought exercise only, I'm only proposing to follow the tournament on radio! However, in considering this (it arose from considering the problems faced by the commentators - where do they stay?) I discounted train travel because there are day/night matches scheduled which may finish after the last train leaves, and therefore would choose to hire a car. You would have to be able to arrive at the ground around 9.30 am and, on a d/n match, would have to leave the ground after 11.30 pm. I therefore concluded that it would be best to stay equidistant from each ground, as road links are roughly the same for each city. --TammyMoet (talk) 20:28, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

In terms of equality of travelling time (by car), Google maps gives Abingdon to Birmingham a journey time of 1:23 {A44 and M40) and Abingdon to Cardiff a time of 1:51 (A44 and M4), both with straightforward routes. Abingdon to London is quoted as 1:26, although of course. it depends where in London you're going. The evening journey may well match those times, but trying to enter London or Birmingham for 9:30 may add an extra hour or two to your journey and be rather stressful, despite the polite driving manners of us Londoners. I'd recommend getting a train from Didcot Parkway station to London Paddington station, which takes "between 45 minutes and an hour"[3]. You thus avoid the London Congestion Charge of £10 plus whatever ludicrous amount you are charged for parking, if indeed you can find somewhere. Alansplodge (talk) 11:36, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

There is another equidistant point somewhere southeast of New Zealand, but since you're interested in optimizing travel time I doubt you'll be heading to that point. :-) 209.131.76.183 (talk) 11:51, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

PS: This is about cricket. [4] I admit that I had to look it up. Alansplodge (talk) 00:38, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Article feedback on WP and a question on video

I added a section for this question. A recent question here [5] also had a problem with WP article feedback not working. Original question follows: SemanticMantis (talk) 18:41, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

hi i saw this article called Comparison_of_H.264_and_VC-1 and couldnt see some info i was looking for and noticed a leave feedback area on the bottom of the page:

"Help improve this page Did you find what you were looking for?"

i clicked "no" and tried to leave the following feedback:

" hi is there a sample video (or simple text table) showing the original filesizes of a sample file, with the same quality audio/video, but showing the resulting filesizes of each compressed output, along with baseline compression times taken using same software/hardware?

for example: Sample 1 (click here) achieved 90% compression using VC1, and 85% compression using h264 (or viceversa)

as long as all the other variables are similar as possible, eg audio bitrate and width/height/resolutions for the video, so that we can easily see practical examples and better judge for ourselves as much as possible which is more efficient. (assuming all processing is "post processing" and not live realtime)

thanks "

BUT: then when i click to submit it, a message pops back instead saying this: "article feedback not enabled for this page"

very contradictory :)

please can you help by trying to see if theres a general issue with the feedback module on the website? and maybe you could update the page with some more tabular information (even if based on some examples would help)

thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.181.132 (talk) 18:13, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Article feedback is for commenting about the article itself, not its subject. Not all articles provide this feedback. For general questions about the article's subject, you should use the article's talk page or this very Reference Desk page you just wrote to. JIP | Talk 18:44, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

That's untrue. You are not supposed to handle general questions about an article's subject in the article's talk page. Many talk pages (eg Talk:Computer) have the {{talkheader}} which says exactly that: "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the (whatever) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.". Our WP:TALK guideline says the very same thing " Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions focused on how to improve the article.".

This is a critical point.

Many people bend that rule - but even then, there is no place in which a question about the intersection of several article subjects may be discussed. Aside from the Ref Desk, there is hardly anywhere within Wikipedia where you can discuss the subject of an article with a general audience. This is a bad thing - if a child comes to Wikipedia to get a feel for how far the sun is from the earth by figuring out how long it would take you to walk that distance - then we are of no help whatever. The information you need to answer that is all here. Walking says how fast people walk, Earth and Sun tells you how far away the sun is - but figuring out that time=distance/speed is much harder...even if by chance the child finds Equations of motion - they'll instantly hit a bunch of calculus and symbols with dots and double dots over the top. They can't ask the question (within WP:TALK guidelines on any of those article talk pages - the help desk isn't going to be much help.

The Ref Desk provides that connectivity between articles and a place to ask questions that require some degree of "connect the dots" thinking.

SteveBaker (talk) 19:11, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I understand that, and I have felt the same issue too. This Reference Desk is pretty much the only place on Wikipedia where I can ask questions related to actual topics, not to Wikipedia itself. I have usually found it fairly easy to get an answer here. On the other hand, questions on article talk pages generally go unnoticed for months, if not years.

This brings to mind a different question: Why does "Article feedback" even exist if both it and the article's talk page, which is provided by default through MediaWiki, are about the same thing - the article itself, not its subject? JIP | Talk 19:17, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

That's a good question. Many people (well, me, but I think in my own mind I count for "many") question the wisdom of the effort spent on the article feedback system, since it essentially duplicates the purpose of the talk pages exactly, but buries comments that should appear on the talk page to be easy to find, and instead puts them somewhere that most people won't ever see them, so concerns expressed there stand less of a chance of being fixed. --Jayron32 19:34, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree - but the fact remains. There really is no place in Wikipedia to make general comments about the content of articles. Even here on the Ref Desk, we frown on topics that are not questions - or which are questions phrased in such a manner as to create a debate rather than to inform the OP. SteveBaker (talk) 21:02, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

That's because there shouldn't be. The article on say, Barack Obama and its talk page and its article feedback page, and really ANYWHERE on Wikipedia, is NOT the place to discuss how you feel about Barack Obama. This is by design. Wikipedia has a specific, narrowly defined purpose, and "talk about whatever I feel like" is not necessarily one of them. There actually is a place where that kind of open discussion is encouraged. It's called the rest of the Internet. Wikipedia has no mechanism for this because its not an activity that fits with Wikipedia's raison d'etre. --Jayron32 00:01, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Yep - mostly, I agree with you. The problem is that the example you choose is one of the clearest. It gets harder when (for example) I wanted to point out that the Harvard Mk I computer was indeed "Turing Complete" despite the article *AND* some of it's references saying otherwise. (Talk:History_of_computing_hardware#Was_the_Harvard_Mark_I_.22Turing_Complete.22.3F_--_Revisited) - this is a tricky matter because I can't put my (highly cogent, I thought) argument into the article because it's WP:OR - yet (I believe) I can clearly demonstrate that my argument is self-evident. I'd really like to be able to discuss this "proof" with our resident experts - but there isn't a place to do that. In the end, I used the "in case of doubt, you need a reference - here is a cause for doubt" as grounds to discuss it. SteveBaker (talk) 03:01, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I think the Village Pump is supposed to meet that need. I personally don't watch it because it is too random for me, but, well, whatever. Looie496 (talk) 03:10, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Alcohol laws in Germany vs. Finland

I was in Munich, Germany, two weeks ago, and when I went to a pub near Theresienwiese, I noticed that the staff drank alcoholic beverages themselves while on duty. Curious about this, I asked about this from the staff at my local pub here in Finland, and the bartender said that such a thing in Finland is absolutely forbidden. Merely possessing alcoholic beverages, even if not consuming them, while on duty is enough for bar staff in Finland to be instantly sacked. What is the law about this in Germany? JIP | Talk 20:36, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Is it a legal issue or just company policy? Hot Stop 22:02, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Also, in Bavaria, beer is typically not considered "an alcoholic beverage", but part of the normal diet. For a long time, even police officers on duty were allowed a beer. I have a vague recollection that that has changed in recent years, but I'm not quite sure. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 00:08, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

• It wasn't until the advent of cheep gin in the 1600's that abolition became a serious movement in Western Europe. Before that weak beer in the north and diluted wine in the south had been consumed for millennia as more hygienic than running water. μηδείς (talk) 04:12, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

A bit later than that - the sale of alcohol to under-18s was banned in 1923 in the UK. The legislation was promoted by Lady Astor, an American. Alansplodge (talk) 12:09, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

The temperance movement began early, by the 1700's. It just didn't effect large scale political damage until the 1800 and 1900's. μηδείς (talk) 18:11, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

In the UK it's traditional (though by no means obligatory) to tell the barman/maid to "have one [i.e. a drink] yourself" when buying a round. The usual response these days is to say "thanks, I'll have one later" (usually meaning that they will keep the money as a tip); however it's not unknown for staff, and especially the landlord, to have a drink behind the bar. Individual pubs, or the breweries or other organisations that own them, may have policies to ban this. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 12:38, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

In the U.S. it's generally discouraged for employees to drink on the job, although some bars do have their staff do shots or whatever with customers, and I'm sure a bartender sneaking a drink on the job is not a blue-moon occurrence. It varies by state; it's actually illegal in some states. Those laws vary wildly depending on the state. Shadowjams (talk) 14:16, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

June 7

Open access chess magazines/journals

Hi,

I am looking for the open access chess magazines/journals. I came across only one such publication "SCHOLAR’S MATE". Please help me in finding more such free resources for learning the chess. I heard that in some countries there are chess textbooks, are they open access? help Thank you for your time. --Nirajrm (talk) 07:03, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

The Week in Chess has chess news and a downloadable file of significant chess games each week. If you want to see a lot of chess games, there's a file of about five million at ICOfY. To view the games, use Scid vs. PC.-gadfium 02:12, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Possessed mediums

I know in the West there are things like Exorcisms and seances, but are there people who voluntarily get "possessed" by "spirits" to do acts like the ones in this video? And this? Other than "crazy" or "fraud", how do we describe these people? ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 08:49, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Okay, this is weirdest. ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 09:00, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

You seem to have built up a good list of words to describe these people, but if you wish there are several online thesauruses which may help you find more. Here's one which is an online version of Roget's Thesaurus. --Jayron32 11:58, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Not synonyms I mean. ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 14:49, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Then what words did you want? I'm quite confused by your initial question if that isn't what you are looking for... --Jayron32 15:00, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

A scientific explanation as to why these people behave like that. As seen in the weird videos. ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 15:26, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Well we have articles at Mediumship Spirit guide and Séance. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:00, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Scientifically? Well, for lack of a better term, "spontaneous" action potentials arise in the brains of certain people who, due to their human nature and past experiences, expect to get a certain pleasurable, convenient or necessary reward from others when they act in a certain way. These potentials excite motor neurons in complex action sequences, leading to ritual actions and language or pseudo-verbal communications which elicit an expected and desired response in their audience, leading, usually, to the physical transfer of small metal tokens or paper certificates, or electronic communications signaling the potential for such transfers. It's kind of the way internet trolling works, although usually minus the paper or metal tokens. μηδείς (talk) 18:09, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Sounds about right. Though if they're doing it for metal instead of paper or binary code, they probably don't do it often or well enough to be called "fraud". InedibleHulk (talk) 22:23, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Gold bars not good enough for you eh? SteveBaker (talk) 02:21, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

For a reason I cannot fathom, the first word that came to mind was "bonkers", in the colloquial sense that some of them are probably a little crazy. 220 of ^Borg 14:54, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

They seems like hypnosis or self hypnosis or in one case a ritual, nothing unusual imo,. 'Bonkers' is the first name of an editor posting above. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 23:32, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

rca tv cable

I need the part no. for cable for external antenna input for 3.5 led digital tv model no. DHT235A. where can I purchase? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.12.109.70 (talk) 14:21, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Some searching suggests This antenna may do the trick, along with this adaptor. At least, that's what I can figure out by reading through this description of the TV in question. --Jayron32 14:25, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

How to I Propose a New Article be Added?

I would like to propose a new article be added on Marcia Coyle. Here are a couple of links:

http://www.law.uci.edu/calendar/Marcia_Coyle_bio.pdf http://authors.simonandschuster.com/Marcia-Coyle/79843795/biography — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki name (talk • contribs) 21:31, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Please go to Wikipedia:Requested articles and make your suggestion there. Best of luck. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:44, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.41.34 (talk) 22:18, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Better advice is to write one yourself. I don't think there are very many people who pay attention to the "Requested articles" page. She is certainly notable, so as long as you include appropriate references, you probably won't be wasting your time. Looie496 (talk) 00:15, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Better advice, Looie? How about "other" advice? The OP seems to be wanting someone else to do the work. They did not ask how to go about writing it themself. I appreciate they may not realise it's probably a lot easier than they imagine, and your suggestion is perfectly appropriate, as far as it goes. But they would then need some help and a different link, such as Wikipedia:Your first article. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 00:25, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree that WP:AfC is "the correct place" to ask about this - but there are some serious questions over whether this article should be created in the first place. Wikipedia is very careful about writing articles about living people - and also very, very careful on the matter of "notability". We work very hard to avoid cluttering up the encyclopedia with articles about people who are just too obscure to warrant a Wikipedia article. So I think you have to expect a somewhat uphill battle against a sceptical audience. SteveBaker (talk) 02:20, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I happen to know who Marcia Coyle is (she appears regularly as an authority on the PBS NewsHour), which is why I'm pretty sure she is notable enough for an article. Looie496 (talk) 02:31, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

And she's already mentioned as a notable alumnus in the Hood College page, so a new article wouldn't be an "orphan". Alansplodge (talk) 18:38, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

June 8

Buying used car in NJ to drive in NY

I'm going to be a NY state resident and saw a used car from a NJ dealership that I would like to purchase. I looked from the DMV website, but I'm still unsure what the exact process is. Overall, how much of a hassle is it to make it my car drivable in NY (ie. get it plated with NY license plates and all the other necessary stuff)? How much will it cost to do all this? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 03:05, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Just a general point, people buy cars from neighboring states all the time. It's not especially more complicated than buying a car in-state. I can't answer you about NY/NJ specifically, but the DMV for your local state is your best resource for that question. Shadowjams (talk) 14:13, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Also, when buying a used car from a dealer, so I need to show proof of residency in the form of a rent agreement or something? I plan on arriving a week before the start date of my lease and living in a hotel until my rent begins. Would I still be able to buy a car before the start date of my rent? Acceptable (talk) 17:06, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

This page seems to answer at least some of your questions. For the rest, I'd ask the dealer. Since NJ is rather smallish, they probably deal with New Yorkers coming over the border to buy cars all the time. They should know the process. The link I provided seems to suggest that if you don't pay enough sales tax in NJ, you'll have to pay the remainder of the tax to NY. Vermont, where I live, has a similar system. Let's say you pay 6% in NJ and the NY tax is 7%. You'd be responsible for the extra 1% that you didn't pay. If it's the other way around, you generally don't get any money back from the state. But again, the dealer would know more than we likely do. They should still be open right now, why not call them? Dismas|^(talk) 17:53, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

• This amounts to legal/professional advice, and we don't have all the relevant details from you in any case. Ask the NJ dealer, who is a professional. You can't drive the car without some state's registration. If you have NJ plates and registration, you should call the NYS DMV and find out how long you have to switch the plates and registration to NY. You'll also have to apply for a NYS driver's license. If you had one from NJ all that was necessary in the 90's was to take the written test, not the driving test, and pay the fee. That may have changed; again, ask the NYS DMV. μηδείς (talk) 18:11, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Aromatic Tobacco

How do aromatic tobaccos such as Amsterdamer get a vanilla aroma within it? Is it a very chemical process or is it just adding a small amount of natural vanilla essence in some form? Thank you for any response 178.166.30.203 (talk) 14:53, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Types of tobacco suggests that aromas are added during the curing process. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:42, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

There's no chemical difference between purified real vanilla extract and chemically produced vanillin. Natural extract will just have some impurities, but the active ingredient is the vanillin. μηδείς (talk) 16:08, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

True, but the OP may have had in mind artificial vanillin, which, according to the article is "made either from guaiacol or from lignin". This certainly implies that true vanilla is at least sometimes used, however. Matt Deres (talk) 17:47, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

And to be fair, the "impurities" add significant taste difference between natural vanilla extract and pure vanillin; even to the point where different varieties of vanilla and different growing locales (i.e. Terroir) will have recognizably different flavor profiles. --Jayron32 17:58, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I am aware of that, but the OP seemed to be contrasting real and chemical vanilla as if the active ingredient were fake (like margarine is fake butter). Just wanted t make clear the active ingredient is the same, which I believe I did. μηδείς (talk) 19:08, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Nitpick: artificial vanilla extract is a pure version of vanillin, which is not the only flavour compound in real vanilla extract. Jayron alluded to terroir above, but it's a bit more complex than that, as in vanilla there are something like 240 different aromatic compounds (see Harold McGee, On Food and Cooking). — The Potato Hose 19:50, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Maybe we could get back to nitpicking the OP's question, now that it has been said six times that the essential ingredient in natural and artificial vanilla is the same chemical? I don't smoke, I can't even smell it, so someone else will have to opine on aromatic tobacco. μηδείς (talk) 21:24, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Drinking from dirty glasses

In various works of fiction, people going to the bar have tried to show a "tough guy" image by asking the bartender to skip washing the glass and serve the drink out of a dirty glass. I've never understood what is the idea behind this. Is it to show "I'm tough enough that bacteria don't scare me, so I'll save you the trouble of washing the glass" or something? JIP | Talk 22:18, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I hazard a guess that this is just a meme that spread from one fiction writer to another.--Aspro (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

JIP should provide a link to such a meme YT or a quote, or some source. μηδείς (talk) 23:28, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Yea I've never heard of it either. Hot Stop 23:30, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I think I have heard it, but I don't remember where, and it seems JIP does. μηδείς (talk) 23:31, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

A very, very old joke, something like this: A guy walks into a bar and orders milk. The tough guys start laughing at him and calling him a sissy or whatever. He says to the bartender, "Oh, yeh? Put it in a dirty glass!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:39, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's one of the places I have heard it from. What I've not understood is how putting it in a dirty glass is supposed to make the guy tougher or the bartender's job easier, or the whole situation more acceptable. JIP | Talk 03:05, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Bring me a whiskey, in a dirty glass! Drinking Whiskey From A Dirty Glass. Bus stop (talk) 03:16, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't know whether this is the documented origin, but a lot of the film versions seem to refer back to Bob Hope in Road to Utopia, see for example "... and put it in a dirty glass!" (snopes) or "Drink Order" (TV Tropes). (So, yeah it's a joke, the ridiculous attempt of the customer to show how tough he is. Has nothing to do with making the bartender's job easier). ---Sluzzelin talk 03:25, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Bob Hope also used it in Son Of Paleface (1952) where, having caused derision among cowboys in a saloon by ordering milk, Hope quickly adds "in a dirty glass". In another picture, when told in court that "anything you say might be held against you," Hope replies, "Jane Russell" [6]. From a psychology point of view: A 'hard man' reinforces his power on those around him by exercising it. He demands something better (always) than those around him get. Bob Hope took the satirical route by getting the 'hard man' roll arse about face. Thus, "in a dirty glass" became a popular meeme with fiction writers.--Aspro (talk) 14:03, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Bob Hope, and presumably his writers, were veterans of vaudeville, so it's possible the "dirty glass" joke was already old by the time it appeared in his films. Likewise with the double meaning of "held against you" (which also turned up decades later in Monty Python's "Hungarian phrase book" sketch). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:17, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

The stereotype is that tough guys don't worry about germs while "weaklings" do. For an example of the 2nd stereotype, look at Niles Crane from Frasier, who insisted on cleaning restaurant chairs before he would sit on them. There is a possible reason for this, in that the Niles Crane types are the result of over-protective parents, which keep them spotlessly clean as children. Unfortunately, this level of cleanliness prevents their immune systems from being exposed to, and developing resistance to, various microbes. The result is that such people really are more susceptible to those microbes as adults. Also, the "weaklings" might act like a minor cold is much more of a problem than the "tough guy", so they appear even more sickly than they are. StuRat (talk) 14:47, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

This sounds plausible, but what still puzzles me is why the "tough guy" would insist on a dirty glass. Surely a clean glass wouldn't be of any more trouble? And what if the bartender had already washed all his glasses? The only way I could see this being plausible is the bartender replying "Sorry, you'll have to wait, I haven't done the dishes yet", and the "tough guy" replying "It's OK, I can stand drinking from a dirty glass". JIP | Talk 19:30, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

It was mentioned above that any perceived effort by the bartender is probably irrelevant. The most plausible scenario seems to one where someone is grasping at straws to extricate himself from a faux pas, and while he cannot reverse himself, seeks to negate the effect (even if mainly intended by the scriptwriters to have a comedic effect, because it fails so terribly). Being seen as trying to be considerate to the bartender would usually not help a "tough guy" image, to the extent that the scriptwriters would not mean this interpretation. — Quondum 00:17, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

A tough guy probably wouldn't ask specifically for a dirty glass either in fiction or in real life. The only example that has been provided in this thread of this being used in popular culture is in the milk joke. This is corroborated by the first link Bus Stop provided above (the Wordpress one) which states that they haven't been able to find any actual examples of it either. As such it seems to be a mythical trope, not an actual one. --Saddhiyama (talk) 09:37, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Could not find what I was looking for in the article "starling"

(The page I was viewing [starling] did not have a place for feedback, and I actually could not find an easier way to provide feedback on this article except contacting you this way, since it was evidently one of your articles that did not have your new feature about feedback available. I love Wikipedia and have donated in the past, but KEEP ADDING that feedback feature to more articles :-) For such an amazing bird [the starling], I was surprised not to find more of the very interesting things that the starling can do, like "nesting behavior". Are they similar to the cuckoo bird in that they can lay their eggs in another species' nest and have that mother take over feeding of the newborn starling? I observed a starling and a chestnut-backed chickadee on a fence near to the chickadee's nest, and the starling inched over to the male and finally forced him to fly away. The mother was in the nest and making a lot of noise. (Earlier I had seen a starling come out of the nest with a piece of grass. He shook his head very hard like he had been pecked in the head by birds in the nest, but he definitely had been on the nest.) I just do not have the time to find an ornithologist to communicate with or find an article on this bizarre behavior to quote, but I would seriously like to see more from someone who is an authority on starlings. Being such an overly common bird (thanks [or NOT] to Eugene Schieffelin and Shakespeare), I think more on starling behavior is almost overdue :-) Thank you - Terry Powell Vortexswmr (talk) 22:22, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Please ask this at Wikipedia:Help_desk. As just mentioned on another thread, we provide links to references, not help with articles. μηδείς (talk) 23:30, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

But as well as some very constructive criticism of Wikipedia, for which thanks, there is a well defined question. Does the starling lay eggs in another bird's nest? I have no idea. Maybe one for the Science desk? Itsmejudith (talk) 23:42, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

According to our article, the Common Starling is an intraspecific brood parasite -- meaning that the females sometimes lay eggs in the nests of other Common Starlings, but not in the nests of other types of birds as the cuckoo does. Looie496 (talk) 23:50, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

June 9

About wrong content in article relating to Hindu temple

Sir,

This is the executive officer of Shri Garbarakshambigai temple, Thirukarukavur, Tamil Nadu, a state government appointed officer to manage the temple. An article has been created by Shri. Ssriram-mt about this temple in the title 'Garbharakshambigai_temple'. The content regarding the 'Legend' has been misrepresented which may confuse the readers. We need it to be removed or edited. The original content can be seen from our website www.garbaratchambigaitemple.org. Thanks. Need your co-operation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EO, temple (talk • contribs) 03:27, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

This is the wrong place to bring up the problem, but anyway I have edited the article and responded to you on the article's talk page. Any further discussion should happen there. Looie496 (talk) 06:15, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Any material related to Saturn's Cube and Hyper-dimensional Cubes?

I need help with materials related to the planet Saturn, specifically about

1.) the supposition that it was a dwarf star before that cooled into a planet;

2.) the alleged effects of this planet on our planet's electromagnetic dynamics;

3.) the mention of the Saturn's cube on various ancient and medieval texts, both Western and Eastern;

4.) the association of the planet with the deity named after it and to the deities El, YHVH, El Alilah, Allah, Cronus, Baal, Moloch etc.;

5.) the alleged control of this planet on the wave or atomic spins of matter within our solar system, thus governing "time" as we humans understand and perceive it in our dimension.

Thank you. Hotridge (talk) 06:00, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

This search reveals some material on Saturn's Cube and related matters. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 06:08, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Wow - thanks Jack! That's a whole universe of paranoid mystical hogwash that I knew nothing about. *files it away for use in a Delta Green campaign* AlexTiefling (talk) 10:38, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Just doing what the OP ought to have done - searched for the thing he wanted to know about. I just reported what my search revealed. He did thank me privately, indicating he needed material more suitable for references. I told him it was a starting point. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 20:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

1) Saturn's mass is way too low for it ever to have been a 'dwarf star' in any meaningful sense.

2) Saturn is too remote from Earth to have any significant electromagnetic effect on it; who alleges otherwise?

4) It's very hard to know what you mean by 'etc' here, since the deities you list are not analogous - indeed, El and Baal are quite different. And I'd be very interested to see any reliable sources associating the planet Saturn with YHWH/Allah. The planet is, of course, named after the deity, not the other way round.

5) This looks like complete pseudoscientific garbage. Again, who alleges such a thing? AlexTiefling (talk) 10:36, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

• Sounds like something out of Immanuel Velikovsky or one of his followers. He was popular back in the '70's, when weed was stronger and people hadn't learned to tolerate its effects. μηδείς (talk) 16:09, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Getting from Tallinn harbour to Tallinn bus station in one hour

I'm going to a photography workshop in Kuressaare, Saaremaa, Estonia, in late July. To get there, I would have to take the 13:00 bus from Tallinn bus station. MS Finlandia from Eckerö Line arrives at Tallinn harbour at 11:45. This leaves me about one hour to get to the bus station. Is this enough time? Should I take a taxi? JIP | Talk 17:24, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

See http://www.experttravelanswers.com.

—Wavelength (talk) 18:37, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I submitted a question there but it isn't showing up at "Recent questions". How do I know if the question has been submitted? JIP | Talk 19:27, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I do not know. I searched 20 blocks of 10 questions each, without finding any question about Tallinn.

—Wavelength (talk) 23:16, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Keeping it in the family, you could also try Wikivoyage:Tourist_Office. Rojomoke (talk) 20:12, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

At Google Maps, "Get directions" shows a route of 5.0 kilometers with an estimated travel time of 10 minutes. "This route has restricted usage or private roads."

—Wavelength (talk) 23:16, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

See http://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/8340/from-tallinn-harbour-to-the-main-bus-station.

—Wavelength (talk) 23:20, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

According to this page, it's only a 25-minute trip if I take bus #2 from Reisisadam to Autobussijaam. JIP | Talk 04:48, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

This seems to be sorted out. I just received news that some friends of mine are going on a cruise from Helsinki to Tallinn just two days before. So I decided to join the cruise, but after embarking on Tallinn, I'm not going back on the cruise. Instead, I'm staying in Tallinn for the whole day, and going to Kuressaare and then back to Finland on my own. This leaves me enough time to get to Kuressaare at my leisure, and even explore Tallinn in between. The only downside is that it is going to cost me about 60 € more. JIP | Talk 16:58, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

June 10

Map of NHS hospitals in England

Hi. I'm looking for a map or maps showing the locations of NHS (ie not private) hospital Trusts in England. A separate map for London/the home counties would be useful, too. Any help gratefully received. Thanks. --Dweller (talk) 08:25, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Not a map as such, but NHS Choices web site has an A-Z list of NHS hospital trusts (a.k.a. "acute trusts") in England. Note that each trust may be responsible for several hospitals, as well as local clinics and health centres. The "Services near you" tab allows you to search for hospitals and other NHS services by location, and can display search results as a map. Gandalf61 (talk) 09:50, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, but I really want to know nationwide locations, and a map is going to be best. It's for research, rather than looking for a hospital as a patient. Yes, it's the location of acute Trust HQ I'm ideally after, which is usually the largest hospital in the group, but I don't mind if it's simply a map or maps of every hospital. --Dweller (talk) 10:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

How about this: [7]? It's to track patients on a waiting list, but since it includes institutions that have zero on a wait list, I think it might be a comprehensive map of all trusts? 184.147.118.213 (talk) 15:47, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

That's terrific, thank you. Really helpful! --Dweller (talk) 21:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Great to hear it helps! You're most welcome. 184.147.118.213 (talk) 21:24, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Long runway

The other night I was taken along by a group of teenagers I'm connected with to see Fast and Furious 6. Now, I don't look for total credibility in such films, but one scene had me just a little concerned. A chase scene on an airport runway with a Russian transport plane took a very long time. Somebody on the IMDB page for the movie has done the research and calculations, and found that the runway must have been at least 27 miles or 44 kilometres long. I'm not concerned with the film's veracity, but are there any runways anywhere that long? What and where are the longest ones? HiLo48 (talk) 09:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

See list of longest runways. --Lgriot (talk) 10:02, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, I wondered if such an article would exist. So Fast and Furious 6 is unrealistic. Who'd a thunk it? HiLo48 (talk) 11:38, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Yakuza tattoos

Not all but many yakuza tattoos otherwise covering most of the upper body, leave a straight tatoo-free line on the middle the persons chest. Do you know why? Thanks!

46.107.26.54 (talk) 15:18, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Yakuza tattoos are on the back, not the front. Citrusbowler (talk) (contribs) (email me) 17:26, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Some school campus don't have school colors?

I did try to study some school colors like high school colors and community college colors, I noticed when I go to [8] and Coastline Community College I can't tell what the school colors are over there really. Is this possible some college/HS campuses don't have school colors. or just some school campuses are not require to have a school color. Then if school campus don't require a school colors could their sports team just be random artificial colors?--69.233.254.115 (talk) 20:30, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

In the U.S., any school that has a sports program will have school colors. New schools (formed by mergers, divisions or newly created) and schools just starting their sports programs will often adopt a mascot and colors by student vote, subject to approval by school officials. At the very least, school officials will solicit student and community opinion. Unofficial teams at a school, such as club teams, may or may not follow the name and colors of the official school identity. (I have long thought there should be a list for colors similar to "List of college sports team nicknames".)    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 20:51, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

CCC, in particular, does not have varsity athletic programs. I would say that's typical for community colleges. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:54, 10 June 2013 (UTC)