Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics

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Category:21st-century Indian television actresses

Category:21st-century Indian television actresses, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 12:56, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

People really should take a look at this because systemic bias might play a part. - Sitush (talk) 11:27, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Ethnicity of Prithviraj Kapoor

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Prithviraj Kapoor#Pathan/Pashtun ethnicity of Prithviraj Kapoor. -- Trevj (talk) 08:17, 19 September 2013 (UTC)Template:Z48

Anjana Om Kashyap

The newly-created article Anjana Om Kashyap needs serious work.

If this person is as well-written about as a Google.com search indicates, there is the possibility of getting this up to WP:Good article status or at least B-class fairly quickly if people familiar with her and who are familiar with what is and is not a reliable source for people in her profession in her country work on it.

My challenge to WikiProject India, should you choose to accept it: Get this up to B-class within a week and if it looks like GA status is feasible, get it to GA within a month. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 14:40, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Articles related to the Sino-Indian border dispute

Hello all, this was something I came across and thought would be relevant to you. There has been much sparring and discussion between two editors about several articles related to disputed places between India and China. It began with a CfD nomination regarding Category:Areas occupied by China after the Sino-Indian War. The conclusion was that the category was well-defined and should be retained but could be renamed to a better title. Since then there have been many attempts by one of the editors to remove text and references from the articles and to remove the articles from the category, while the other prefers to retain them. Some of the articles of places that are involved are Lanak Pass, Spanggur Gap, Spanggur Tso, Khurnak Fort, Sirijap, Dehra Compass, Kongka Pass, Galwan River, Chip Chap River, Depsang plains, Demchok and Dêmqog, Ngari Prefecture. Other related articles that have not been edited as much are Events leading to the Sino-Indian War, Sino-Indian War, Aksai Chin, Line of Actual Control, China-India relations and Sino-Indian border dispute. I am not sure, but it appears that the pro-China editor gradually makes articles pro-China over time, while it appears that the other editor has an uncompromising and almost stubborn attitude. Discussion has also been done at Administrators noticeboard, User talk:Jreferee and on all the related talk pages. Perhaps you should keep an eye on these pages. 117.195.122.22 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

The IP 117.195.122.22 is suspected of being a sock puppet of an involved user. You're welcome to comment on the investigation page. -Zanhe (talk) 03:33, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Rivers of India naming

There is a discussion at Wikiproject Rivers Talkpage about renaming articles on some Indian Rivers. Posting this notice here simply for informational purposes (since not many WPINDIA may have that page watchlisted); if interested please add your comments at the WPRIVERS page. Abecedare (talk) 01:08, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Help with another article?

Hi all! I have a new request, as I'm running into a huge language barrier. I'm trying to write an article for the author Ashok Rajagopalan. I see a blog entry that says that he's worked on over 500 books, which is quite an accomplishment to say the least. (Freaking impressive is more appropriate of an expression, in my opinion.) Problem is, it's a blog and I can't use it. The Hindu has written about him and I have an article from the Deccan Herald, but I need a few more sources from other places to really give solid notability. I know that they have to be out there, but I think that they're in another language since most of his books aren't in English. I think I have enough to merit an entry on the mainspace, but I kind of hit my limit with sourcing in English. Can anyone help hunt for sources as well as for titles of his books? We can't have all 500 books he's worked on, but we can do the most notable ones. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 09:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Vasudeo Sitaram Bendrey

Dear India experts: Can someone check out the references for this article> It has been waiting a long timefor review at Afc. Thanks! —Anne Delong (talk) 19:44, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

The subject may well be notable enough for a wikipedia article, but the current draft is problematic:

• All the biographical details on the page are unsourced. The only cited references are Bendrey's won historical books (cited to show that he wrote them), a book published before Bendrey was born, and this newspaper link, which is currently dead.
• The article text itself is copied from here, where it is marked as copyrighted. Has the page creator obtained permission to copy the content onto wikipedia?

Abecedare (talk) 03:55, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

I have added comments to the submission regarding copyright issues, notability, and using independent, reliable sources. I have also blanked the submitted text (using {{afc cleared}}) due to copyright issues. I did not CSD it because I anticipate that if the submitter is serious, he can probably get the copyright owner to release the text under a suitable license. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 16:24, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Indian Navy images

I am pleased to let everyone know that images from the Indian Navy's website can be uploaded and used on Wikipedia, as they have been released under the the CC 2.5 Attribution license, which was kindly confirmed to me by the navy's webmaster. You can check out the template and the OTRS ticket at Template:Indian navy. Thanks! Anir1uph | talk | contrib 10:17, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

• Namaste, could you please add it at WP:INDFREE? Tito☸Dutta 10:53, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

And some lovely photos they are. Thanks Anir1uph!—indopug (talk) 10:14, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

You are welcome :) I have also added this to WP:INDFREE. Thanks! Anir1uph | talk | contrib 11:09, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Pooja Welling

Does Pooja Welling show that this person meets WP:GNG, WP:BIO, or WP:ENT? Not being familiar with the films and TV shows in question, I can't really tell. For admins is this a re-creation of the deleted version of this page? davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 17:20, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

The user is a sock of an indef blocked self-promoter. She is recreating all sorts of previously-deleted articles relating to her work. - Sitush (talk) 17:29, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Deleted and salted. --regentspark (comment) 17:33, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Reema Welling was one of the previously blocked accounts (NLT, in that instance). Lifeisgood01 has also recreated Saurabh Choudhary - I think that went via PROD rather than AfD but the sources do not stack up. - Sitush (talk) 17:48, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I didn't see the old PROD-deletion so I PRODded it but reverted myself. Could an admin have a look-see and take appropriate action, either G5 if G5-eligible or add a note to the talk page saying if this looks to be a REFUND or if it's a new re-creation, which would be PROD-eligible? Thanks. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 18:30, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Might be easier to wait until the process at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Reema Welling completes. I think that Reema is socking again and leaving the article in place might help us track any further puppets. - Sitush (talk) 18:57, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

And if someone would care to revert review this mess of blp violations, uncited irrelevant/duplicated footnotes etc then I would be grateful. You can see my edit summaries for the prior removals and clean up. - Sitush (talk) 19:01, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Swati Bakshi

Is Swati Bakshi notable and in need of major de-promotionalizing or is she non-notable? If non-notable, I'll go through PROD/AFD. Otherwise, a major cleanup is in order. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 19:17, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, the creator - Entertainmenrpr - looks likely to be another one from the sock farm. - Sitush (talk) 19:24, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

And it was a sock. The farm was pretty big and we're going to see this sockmaster again. I have CSD'd the article as a creation by a blocked user. A possible appearance in one episode of a reality tv show does not make for notability anyway. - Sitush (talk) 08:33, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Wow Konkani Wikipedia in Goa

It seems like a major collaboration with a University in Goa is beginning! See Times of India. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:08, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Jahan Shah IV

Could someone with decent resources check out Jahan Shah IV? I did a regular Google search, Google Books, and Google Scholar, but found nothing on the guy. The only cited reference is a book whose title and author also get no results. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 02:02, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Help with a non-native English speaker?

Hey, I recently moved an article into someone's userspace so they coudl work on it. The problem is that I'm not sure how much help I'd be for them since they don't seem to have a firm grasp on English. Their username and subject matter suggests that they're Indian, so I was wondering if one of you could help him out any. His username is User:Vishwanathnjois. Thanks! I think that you guys have to have one of the more solid bases of any of the other WP I've dealt with, so I want to know how much I appreciate everyone's hard work on whatever subject I've posted about here. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 07:37, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Jainism-related articles

I don't how long this has been going on, but a clique of WP editors have been pushing "antiquity" on Jainism-related articles. Their sources are shabby, most written by Jains, most works of avocation, than the scholarly efforts of professionals. They are edit-warring on Indus Valley Civilization, attempting to give "historical figure" status to gods or mythical religious figures. They are claiming that the "proto-Shiva" seal of the Indus Valley was the first tirthankara "Rishaba," who in traditional Jain sources was said to be 100 feet tall and had already departed the earth before the birth of the solar system.

They are creating new articles sourced to "matrimonial" sources: Jainism in Southeast Asia.

They are quietly, tiptoeing their third-rate articles into GA status, such as Karma in Jainism, which is making the claim, based on dubious Jain sources that the concepts of "Karma," "Maya," "Samsara," "rebirth," are all Jain concepts, pre-dating Hinduism and Buddhism. The same is being repeated on the page Timeline of Jainism, Neminatha, Rishabha, Buddhism and Jainism, Sramana, and so forth

Sources can be found these days for the craziest assertions. Wikipedia has to make sure that the sources are reliable and the emphasis is not WP:UNDUE. I haven't had the time to look into this, but there seems to be a veritable parallel universe of Jainism-related articles. Could someone please look into this? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:41, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

This has been going since a while now. Many issues related to Jainism have come up here and gone in archives. I personally have little knowledge of Jainism and hence haven't taken part in these topics. But if you are interested, you could start with Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Deva Devali. That, as far as i remember, is the oldest of this current issue. You will also get names of editors whose edits could be worth observing. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 06:27, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to your link DD, my eyes are now aching. —SpacemanSpiff 18:35, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Help expand for DYK: Anti-Superstition and Black Magic Ordinance

Seems like a fun topic - would make for a nice DYK. If anyone would like to expand it, it would be appreciated! --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:37, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

I would recommend approaching Kenfyre (talk · contribs) on this, since he has worked on several related articles. Abecedare (talk) 15:51, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Indian lists

Programming canceled due to signal noise

Many people don't distinguish Indians from origin-Indians (Indian-American , -Canadian). See List of Indian Academy Award winners and nominees or List of Indian Christians for such lists. Now I don't understand why they get away with it and there is no mechanism to stop such kind of disruption. I reported someone and the case was simply dropped.-- Dravidian  Hero  19:58, 30 September 2013 (UTC) Probably something to do with the fact that you refused to participate in civil discussion about the criteria that define the content of a list. Never mind. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:06, 30 September 2013 (UTC) Rambling Man, a centralised discussion would be better because this principle affects a lot of lists. The criteria is generally vague and people - particularly newbies - are very keen to add all sorts of content regardless of topicality, verifiability etc. We end up with situations such as second-generation British born-and-bred residents whose ancestors came from Punbjab being included in List of X or Y or Z. We have the usual India vs Pakistan vs Bangladesh type of issue. We have the more general "how long before they qualify" issue - some people are born in one place but aren't there very long at all. And sometimes I've seen situations where people of no Indian ancestry at all have ended up in a list because they happened to visit the country as part of their job/profession. It is a nightmare and it would be good if there was a standard. I'm sure many of the same problems apply to other nation/ethnic/whatever-based lists and so probably there is already some generic criteria out there. - Sitush (talk) 20:20, 30 September 2013 (UTC) I never denied it. A discussion was the first thing I advocated. Sadly, "DravidianHero" went postal, took me to ANI etc etc. Way to go. If anyone here actually wants to contribute positively to the discussion, go ahead. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:37, 30 September 2013 (UTC) Right, you advocated a discussion. Period. Without any topic. Period. Two times in a row. Period. A block would have been justified. -- Dravidian  Hero  22:20, 30 September 2013 (UTC) Dravidianhero, what utter nonsense. I stated quite clearly what the topic of the discussion should have been i.e. the inclusion criteria. Now, just because you threw your toys out of the pram and didn't get your own way, wasted the time of the community at AN and then ANI, there's no need to get all snipey. If you're convinced that I needed to be blocked, you clearly have no clue. Never mind, eh?! The Rambling Man (talk) 06:37, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Here are some principal rules which should settle most issues in Lists and other topics: Citizenship or Nationality (in case of no citizenship) must be always sourced Ethnicity must be always sourced Religion must be sourced, additionally there must be a direct quote by the person in question, so there is a real self-identification with a particular religion. Someone could be officially a Christian but Atheist. Questionable. Similarly Caste needs a direct quote, which could be of even greater relevance -- Dravidian  Hero  22:11, 30 September 2013 (UTC) I guess the question is what does "Indian" mean? Does it mean national origin? Does one have to be a citizen of India? Does one have to be born in India? Or have at least one parent who is Indian? Would, for example, someone like Jagdish Bhagwati be included in a list of Indian professors at Columbia University? Personally, I'd favor a more inclusive approach along the definitional lines here simply because it would cause less problems but this does need to be hashed out. --regentspark (comment) 01:06, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Indian can only mean "Citizen of India". An Indian-Canadian is Canadian, Indian-American American. Jagdish Bhagwati is American. If you have a problem with his new identity you should consult him personally and not "correct" it on WP. I personally have no problem not accepting him as Indian. The same is to be said about Venkatraman Ramakrishnan. He is NOT Indian. -- Dravidian  Hero  01:52, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Obtaining verification of citizenship is very difficult. If we adopt that course then we'll end up mostly deleting such lists in their entirety. - Sitush (talk) 01:58, 1 October 2013 (UTC) The problem is the ambiguous emigrant where there is a lot of doubt about it. But for these notable people there seems to be enough references regarding nationality available.-- Dravidian  Hero  02:11, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Nationality and citizenship are not the same thing. And even place of birth guarantees neither. - Sitush (talk) 02:13, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Oh, I missed that one, corrected in my list to prevent misunderstandings.-- Dravidian  Hero  02:19, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Well in dubious cases we can't put information related to the person. Dubious material shouldn't be included anywhere. For instance if there is a French baby born in Auroville and there is no source for its citizenship despite its fame, it shouldn't be included in any list. That's the purpose of my criteria to exclude any dubious material once and forever.-- Dravidian  Hero  02:28, 1 October 2013 (UTC) If you are going to require citizenship to be sourced, either put the same requirement on nationality or justify not doing so. Many people have no citizenship, but have or can get passports of the country they were born in as "nationals" of that country. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 03:17, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Ok added.-- Dravidian  Hero  03:41, 1 October 2013 (UTC) And the same point I mentioned regarding citizenship applies here also. How the heck are we going to verify that someone has or doesn't has an Indian passport? And what if they have more than one passport, eg: Indian and British? We will end up with very short lists that make a mockery of how most people would consider things and, let's face it, we've got enough trouble in the India sphere in getting across our attitude to oral history and suchlike without adding a whole new bunch of tight requirements. - Sitush (talk) 12:35, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Exactly. For example, is Mira Nair (on the academy awards list) an Indian citizen or a US citizen? Then there is the temporal issue. What if she was an Indian citizen when she won an academy award but later became an American citizen? Much of this discussion, trying to pin out some exact definition of a thing that is ill-defined anyway, is pointless. The only reasonable way out is to have a List of Academy Award winners who were Indian citizens on the day the awards were announced. Exactitude is nice in theory but doesn't work so well in practice. --regentspark (comment) 12:40, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Tight requirements? These are standard req as Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons applies here of course. We can't just make our lists without proper sources especially in dubious cases. If a list violates the policy that info must be removed immediately. -- Dravidian  Hero  13:58, 1 October 2013 (UTC) So you are not bothered if the people listed are dead? - Sitush (talk) 14:01, 1 October 2013 (UTC) lol what is the point of always cherrypicking situations. Yes of course I'm also bothered of dead persons here..no person should have (possibly) wrong info attached. -- Dravidian  Hero  14:06, 1 October 2013 (UTC) The point is that if we're going to have a general discussion that impacts on a great many articles then we need to ensure that all bases are covered. We've had far too many discussions here in the past that have caused numerous problems, often almost within days of an apparent consensus being determined. Please can you define Indian ethnicity and please can you provide, say, five examples of people currently in lists whose Indian nationality and/or citizenship is verifiable to us by reference to their passport or similar document ... and verify that they also have no such other document issued by, say, the US or Britain. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 14:13, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Sorry never heard of an "Indian ethnicity". As far as I know India is a multi-ethnic and multi-religious country. And an Indian is someone who is a citizen of India. The requirement here is a normal high quality source, not an official paper. It would be better to concentrate on dubious cases in this discussion as these would be actually challenged quite often.-- Dravidian  Hero  14:27, 1 October 2013 (UTC) This discussion is not about specific cases. It is about how we define the word "Indian" in relation to lists. You seem to be avoiding all definitions despite having posted a list that uses the terms. Since you have given those terms, presumably you can define what you mean by them. - Sitush (talk) 14:54, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Avoid what. I've repeatedly stated that Indian means citizen of India and there is no other definition for that. If you are refering to this list here from disambuigation page: Something of or from the nation of India Indian people, people who are citizens of India A person belonging to one of the South Asian ethnic groups Non-resident Indian and person of Indian origin, a citizen of India who has temporarily emigrated to another country These definitions in the disambuigation page are utter crap: 1. So a German immigrant worker in Bangalore is Indian? 2. correct 3. Iran, Afghanistan is also South Asia according to UN. Iranian=Indian? 4. A "PIO" is still Indian? A PIO has not even an Indian passport! Basically The same thing that happens in our lists. General pattern is: Keep the definition of Indian as vague as possible so everyone and everything passes as Indian, because India is a great country and India is the great hope of the world and humanity. Indians is different and better than all other countries. I challenge this bullshit.-- Dravidian  Hero  15:45, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Where have your defined "citizen of India"? I'm not the only one who has queried this. - Sitush (talk) 15:49, 1 October 2013 (UTC) Blocked DravadianHero has been blocked as a sock of Kalarimaster. Hopefully we can all go back to our normally scheduled programming now. --regentspark (comment) 16:20, 1 October 2013 (UTC) (edit conflict)Just noting that Kalarimaster (who has been posting above as Dravidianhero) is indefinitely blocked for disruption in this area. I will hat this discussion in a while if there aren't any objections and allow editors in good standing to resume discussion afresh without having to deal with distractions. —SpacemanSpiff 16:22, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Partition of India article being dominated by Pakistani editors with POV

Hi. I want to draw your attention to the Partition of India page, which is poorly written, unreferenced and insubstantial. Pakistani editors are seemingly trying to dominate the page with their nationalistic POV and trying to protect the page. It would be great if there was a major collaborative effort to overhaul and improve the page to make it a featured article. Some suggested readings (books) are: Freedom at Midnight (Lapierre & Collins), India Wins Freedom (Abul Kalam Azad) and India from Curzon to Nehru and After (Durga Das). --Bookishness (talk) 22:18, 1 October 2013 (UTC)