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January 21

File:Van Gogh - Die Brücke von Langlois in Arles1.jpeg

I was just wondering if this water color by Vincent is still owned by a private collector as it states in the file, how current is your information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caterina49 (talk • contribs) 00:20, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In his 2006 edition of The Life and Work of Van Gogh, Nordenfalk states that the painting is owned by a collector.
But, Frommer's (2011) identifies the painting as part of the Groninger Museum's collection in the passage about the museum. [But, the 1883 date is incorrect]
Of course the problem could stem from the fact that this is part of a series of the same subject, in 1888: Langlois Bridge at Arles (Van Gogh series). [Searching with catalog numbers (F 1480, JH 1382) might be helpful.]
► It was sold on 4 November 2003 at Christie's (Sale 1299, Lot 21); buyer not specified; presumably a private party.
~Eric:71.20.250.51 (talk) 02:09, 21 January 2014 (UTC) [Modified:03:33, 21 January 2014 (UTC) strikout obsolete or misleading inforation][reply]
...and here's a link to the image on Wikipedia File:Van Gogh - Die Brücke von Langlois in Arles1.jpeg Astronaut (talk) 17:18, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Internal reaction of the Invasion of Grenada

The article Invasion of Grenada only mentions the U.S. and international reactions, but does not mention the internal reaction (i.e. of the locals/Grenadines). Is there anywhere else that has information on their reaction? Thanks in advance, Sunfoo (talk) 20:09, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here are links to a couple of articles on this question: [1] [2] Marco polo (talk) 02:01, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Sunfoo (talk) 19:48, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

January 22

Is "scientific poetry" replacing pure or traditional poetry

Today, scientific findings are becoming poetic themes, and it seems that this form of poetry is gaining strength and popularity. What then will happen to the poets who are exclusively trained in the humanities not in the sciences? Will scientific poetry kill traditional, lexical, and subjective poetry and make poetry a scientific compliment? (It would be great if you could cite literary academics.)

There are a number of articles on the synthesis of the sciences and poetry. Most of these articles argue that poetry is the vehicle that disseminated important scientific findings, like that of the Greeks or that of the 20th century scientists, who presented their works in verse. Sciences, then, are never different from poetry. However, as I can see it, the integration will not work for the benefit of both but only for the benefit of the sciences. Poetry is grounded on itself and this so-called “scientific poetry” is grounded on science.

If “scientific poetry” uses an accepted scientific belief as a poetic theme, poetry, obviously, becomes a complimentary activity, or a past time for a scientist to express his scientific indulgence. Unsurprisingly, most of these “scientific poems” are mathematical at best, and, not to mention, technical. And this so called "scientific poetry" makes poetry as a means to an ends - a vehicle to promote rigorous and objective thinking. Hence, to criticize or analyze it requires one to look at science, not at the poem.49.144.146.30 (talk) 03:06, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad you mentioned literary academics, because their published opinions, if any, would be all we could provide in answer to the issues raised. We could not proffer our own views, because that would be breaching at least WP:CRYSTAL, WP:OR and WP:FORUM. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 03:58, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'll go out on a limb and say "nothing" and "no" - since Wikipedia has no article on scientific poetry and the term is only used in the article of Sully Prudhomme (died 1907). "Science poetry" is only mentioned in the article on Celia Berrell. In contrast we have a large number of articles on modern poets who write on "humanities themes". See Category:20th-century poets and Category:21st-century poets. Rmhermen (talk) 04:54, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Would you mind elaborating on exactly what you're asking? Maybe it's just me, but I read a lot of what would be called science (from popular books to journal articles), I cannot think of anyone presenting anything in verse; nor am I aware of poetry about most of such subject matters. I've read your question about ten times, I'm not really sure I understand what it is you are asking/talking about.Phoenixia1177 (talk) 06:28, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Phoenixia1177, what do you mean you don't understand (please explain more)? If you what you mean is, "it is odd to combine poetry and science, because these two fields are almost two worlds apart, just like music and political science", then I must say that there are certain people who thinks so. These people consider that a scientific idea transformed into stanzas, like what traditional poetry looks like, will make a scientific idea poetic. There's even a book about it that addressed science or scientific poetry very lightly, in a manner not sufficient to defend the poetic worth of this so-called "scientific poetry". Again, What would happen to pure poetry, one that is grounded on itself if this kind of "poetry" will ever be popular? Here's the link to the online pdf version of the book. http://www.durham.net/~neilmac/sciencepoetry.pdf

I mentioned above that some "scientific poetry" are mathematical at best. Here's an example taken from the book: (Sorry, I don't know how to paste the text in stanzas)

Equation of (E)motion
Steven K. Smith

Let r = f(Θ,Φ,Ρ,t) and let r
describe the world line of some person
with a family, friends, hopes, et cetera...
for a spherical coordinate system centered
on the earth and constrained such that
for all Ρ, Ρd < Ρ < Ρu and Ρu - Ρd <<
the mean radius of the earth, 0.
Then the instantaneous position ri
of this person is given by
f(Θi, Φ i, Ρi, ti) where i represents
some instant between birth at t = t0
and death at t = tN.
Also let q = g (Θ,Φ,Ρ, t)
be the world line of a person
prone to drunk driving.

Then δ/δt (q) = v is the speed of q
and if at t = ti vi = too fast
for the conditions of the road, weather,
and the time interval since his last drink
and if qi = ri then there exists a solution
for the equation of motion for r
at t > tN where the world line, f(Θ,Φ,Ρ, t),
passes through a hospital, morgue, and funeral home
and the brief convergence of the
tear dampened world lines of family and friends
before coming to a final position
rf = f(Θ f, Φ f, Ρf, tf) where Ρf < Ρ0
and Ρ0 - Ρf = six feet (1.83 meters).

49.144.146.30 (talk) 10:35, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not doubting that such things exist. However, I have yet to see this used as a common method of discussing/exploring/etc. mathematics or science; nor do the majority of poems appear to be in such a style. In short, I'm sure you could drum up a few more such poems, but I'm not following why this would replace traditional poetry, nor am I seeing any evidence that it is, indeed, even a common way of writing poetry. Finally, it appears less that you are asking a specific question and more that you are presenting a half-essay without any context. My point: without some context to what you are asking and asking for, the answer appears to be an obvious, no - but, since you bothered to ask, I'm guessing you must have some other idea in mind, but it is not very clear what that idea/question is; thus, please elaborate on that matter.Phoenixia1177 (talk) 10:43, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, there are, no doubt, a few scientists who write and read such poetry for fun, but I would offer very long odds against it becoming anything more than a minority pastime. I can't see it ever being taken as either serious science or serious poetry. Dbfirs 18:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Unsurprisingly, most of these “scientific poems” are mathematical at best". I'm not sure what that means, but there is such a thing as "mathematical poetry" as espoused by Bob Grumman. it's very much in the tradition of radical avant-garde verse of the type that dates back to Dada and Pound, and which had a revival in the 1960s in the form of minimalist poetry. It's always been a very very minority form of literature. What's most remarkable about the history of poetry in the 20th - 21st century is the fact that it has mostly withdrawn from the modernist avant-garde phase to become more direct and discursive, unlike art, which has remained within the paradigm of the avant-garde. The "poem" you quote does not seem very scientific to me, but rather a deliberately Duchampian conflation of pseudo-scientific rhetoric with imagery of human mess and chaos, representing the clash of the two. Paul B (talk) 18:38, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
p.s. I used the poem template so that Steven's unreadable poem at least looks more like a readable poem. Paul B (talk) 19:03, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Aside from the classic "There was a young lady named Bright", there's also:
Condensed Story of Ms Farad, by A. P. French
Miss Farad was pretty and sensual
And charged to a reckless potential;
But a rascal named Ohm
Conducted her home -
Her decline was, alas, exponential.
The American Physical Society apparently has too much time on its hands, as it conducted a limerick contest, of which the above was one of the entries.[3]
Clarityfiend (talk) 01:47, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
One particularly useful limerick I remember:
The pendulum's swinging quite free,
It is such a marvel to me.
Each tick, plus each tock
Of the grandfather clock
Is (two pi root el over gee)
MChesterMC (talk) 11:27, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

49.144.146.30 -- There's the "Space-Child's Mother Goose", which is quite amusing and moderately famous in some circles 50 years ago, but much more of a literary stunt than a serious movement... AnonMoos (talk) 04:12, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. National Guard insignia

I have a printed photo of four National Guardsmen in 1963, shown on maneuvers in Michigan. One's an officer (either a major or a light colonel), and I can't see the ranks of the other three, although I'm guessing that they're officers. The officer and one other man have insignia on their left lapels looking like a bird (eagle?) on top of a shield, comparable in shape to the logo of the National Park Service. The other two have insignia that look either like a rifle or a stick figure (they're in the background and I can't see them as well). The end that's feet of the figure/butt of the rifle is pointing toward the men's faces, and the head/muzzle points toward the back of the men's heads. What could these insignia mean? 149.160.172.39 (talk) 21:20, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

United States Army branch insignia may be of some help - these are apparently worn on lapels/collars. The first seems to be an aide-de-camp's insignia; hard to tell what the others are. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:59, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

January 23

British money

I've been watching Mr Selfridge lately and in a recent episode he pulled some money from his coat. It was odd though and I'm wondering if you could tell me what I was seeing. He pulled out sheets of what I would think was tissue paper, if I didn't know better. It was white and had some writing on it. The sheets were about as large as a modern day Kleenex. Were these supposed to be some sort of bank script? Dismas|(talk) 02:27, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

From what I've seen in old movies, British banknotes were typically that large. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:36, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On the same note ...

Per the preceding question, when did banknotes shrink to their current size? Clarityfiend (talk) 03:50, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

From what I can tell from perusing the "Standard Catalog of World Paper Money Volume Two", large whitish Bank of England notes were printed as late as the 1950s, but there were quite different "Treasury Notes" in circulation in WW1, and "Emergency issue" Bank of England notes in circulation in WW2... AnonMoos (talk) 04:02, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Bank of England note issues#£5 and here have something about the "white fiver". It seems they were issued until 1957 and were withdrawn in 1961. They were 212 by 134 mm. I remember once seeing one as a child. They were very unusual and my extended family had never seen such a large sum of money before. I don't remember it being like tissue paper, I think it was quite a stiff sort of paper. Thincat (talk) 10:25, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
According to Wikipedia different denominations were withdrawn on various dates in the 1950s and 1960s, e.g. "The old "White Fiver" was withdrawn on 13 March 1961."--Shantavira|feed me 10:29, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
British money has an interesting history. I was quite surprised when I learned that the first UK monarch to have their effigy on a banknote was the current one, QEII. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 10:50, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Technically you're correct. George V appeared on the 1914-1927 10/- and £1 notes, but they were Treasury Notes rather than banknotes. QEII is indeed the first monarch on Bank of England notes. -- Arwel Parry (talk) 01:33, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. I didn't think they were around that late. Interesting. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:56, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I guess it was a white fiver, as suggested above. There was a famous attempt to forge them during WWII in order to undermine the British economy. See Operation Bernhardt. Paul B (talk) 14:25, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Thank you all for the responses! I didn't realize that it was in circulation so late. It's hard for me to imagine someone as late as the 1950s using a note that was so big. I'd think that somewhere along the line, when notes were more and more common, that they would have shrunk sooner. Dismas|(talk) 22:26, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Most people wouldn't have used a £5 very often. As late as the 1960s I remember my mum being given £5 a month to feed the family of five, for what we couldn't grow ourselves. Ordinary people usually only used £1 or 10 shilling notes. as one of the characters in Spike Milligan's "Puckoon" says: "Brown (10/-), dat's the colour of money!". -- Arwel Parry (talk) 01:28, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I remember seeing an old white £5 note in the 1950s, but my family never owned one (it was like a £500 note would be today). It wasn't Kleenex size, but currency notes have gradually shrunk in size since then. Dbfirs 10:57, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The average wage for a male manual worker in 1957 seems to be (if I'm reading it correctly) 241 shillings and sixpence,[5] or £12.07½ in modern decimal notation. The average wage in manufacturing or construction today seems to be about £30,000 p.a.[6] or £536 per week. Using that as a (probably highly inaccurate) scale, £5 would be worth, in terms of pay, roughly £220 today. Alansplodge (talk) 18:54, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The average salary is closer to 24k, I think, which would put this closer to £150 - but when you think how rarely you see a £50 note in the UK, it's still a pretty vivid image. (I think I encounter them about once a decade...) Andrew Gray (talk) 19:06, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, my comparison seems to have had a subjective bias. (Our weekly family income at that time would have been under £5.) Dbfirs 22:12, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Conflicting standing orders

The doctrine of superior and general orders (e.g. [7] or [8]) seems to conflict with the doctrine of command responsibility. Are there any good authoritative or at least comprehensive references for resolving conflicting orders from different levels of one's chain of command in general commercial employment instead of the military? 193.138.222.55 (talk) 06:52, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[9] is the best I can find, but [10] has a general survey. [11] has some good advice but no operationalized solution, and [12] is an old description of the more general problem. In general, you have to negotiate with your entire management chain to make them all happy, and you can explore different ways to do that with e.g. http://negowiki.mit.edu Good luck! Tim AFS (talk) 05:07, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just a quick question about Bitcoin's "creator"

According to our article on Bitcoins, it was first proposed by a Japanese who went under a pseudonym. Was the reason why he did so ever disclosed? If not, what is likely to be the reason behind his anonymity? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:43, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Satoshi Nakamoto is the pseudonym the creator chose to use in his original whitepaper; there's no particular reason to believe that the real person really is Japanese. Other people (some Japanese, others not) have been proposed as the real creator; I'm not going to name them (BLP tattle) but Google will find you some candidates easily enough. I don't believe "Nakamoto" has ever explained why the pseudonym. Some have speculated that it's because he didn't want to run afoul of money-laudering and banking disclosure laws. Others claim (again for BLP reasons I'm not linking) that the creator has a massive collection of bitcoin (obtained at the beginning of the currency's life, when mining for them was much easier than it later became) - if that's the case, Nakamoto is potentially exceedingly wealthy now. This is all uncharted legal territory (I'm surprised governments haven't tried to clamp down on Bitcoin); it's quite within the bounds of possibility that some ambitious prosecutor could try to indict Nakamoto with running a Ponzi scheme. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 14:17, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
(maybe the governments in question have learned not to make unenforceable laws? :) SemanticMantis (talk) 20:34, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
We'll never know for sure unless that person comes forward. But I'll add that the inventor has disseminated a tool that is very good at keeping financial transactions private and pseudonymous. Perhaps she just values her privacy! SemanticMantis (talk) 20:34, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Who says the creator is a Japanese? Just because the creator calls herself "Satoshi Nakamoto" does not mean the creator is Japanese or even the creator is a male or even the creator is a human being. For all we know, the creator can be an alien from Alpha Centauri. 202.177.218.59 (talk) 00:59, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Type of architecture that is used to build the iconic schoolhouse or church

You may have seen it. It looks like a rectangular block with a few windows on the side and maybe on the front or back. There is only one door. Old-fashioned one-room schoolhouses are built in this style. Churches are too. Sometimes, there may be a bell attached in the steeple, sometimes not. 140.254.227.176 (talk) 15:11, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps Carpenter Gothic. --Viennese Waltz 15:47, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Iconic" can vary depending on location. This might be helpful: Architecture Syles Guide ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 15:53, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest looking through the articles in Category:One-room schoolhouses. One-room schoolhouses come in all sorts of different architectural styles, and it is difficult for us to answer the question based on just the brief description given... we could do better if you could point us to a school that matches the specific "look" you are thinking of. Blueboar (talk) 16:07, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The Wikimedia Commons category page might be quicker; it contains the images for that category: [13] ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 16:39, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm almost certain the OP is referring to the kind of, typically wooden, pitched-roof buildings with a door at the narrow end, as seen in One-room school. Apart from the very generic "vernacular" I doubt there's a specific term. Paul B (talk) 17:39, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Whilst I think I can guess, this is exactly the sort of question where specifying the country or region that the question relates to would be very helpful. AlexTiefling (talk) 18:39, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Milestones in Germany 2013 legislative elections

What were the milestones of Germany's 2013 legislative election such as youngest person to be elected, first black to be elected or first non-German to be given a cabinet portfolio? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.29.32.95 (talk) 16:11, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The youngest person elected in the Federal Elections was Mahmut Özdemir (b 1987), the oldest Heinz Riesenhuber (b 1935). Mahmut Özdemir, son of Turkish immigrants, has a non-German background. Commissioner Aydan Özoğuz, daughter of Turkish immigrants, has a portfolio. Karamba Diaby became the first African-born Member of the Federal Parliament. David McAllister, the former Prime Minister of Niedersachsen, who has British and German citizenships, lost his office in 2013. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 16:57, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The modern ('80 -'90) restoration of the Michelangelo frescoes was financed by the Japanese Nippon Television Network Corporation. In exchange they got the exclusive filming and photographing rights. This raises some questions (no pratical concerns, jut out of intrest).

My first question then is: what exactly does this mean? Is every photo of the restored frescoes copyright by the Vatican and the Japanese Nippon TV? Why then does Wikipedia have photographs? What about the photographs taken during the restoration? Are they the exclusive property of Nippon?

The second question then becomes: what is the term of this exclusive rights, how long does Nippon (still) have the exclusive rights on the photographs and films? And more intrestingly: when the term finishes, do they have to release all photographs and films? Do they then become public domain? This would be particullary intresting to clear up some of the controversaries on the restoration (see here).

I cannot find solid answers to any of these questions. This article of 1990 says "its commercial exclusivity on photographs expires three years after the completion of each phase". Then this would obviously mean they do not have any more exclusive rights. What would this then mean in practice?

This article however seems to imply the copyrights still hold. This (unreliable) source states the copyright ends in 2019? As far as I can see, I cannot find any official statement about all this.

Does anyone have solid answers or pointers to answers to these questions?

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.190.253.150 (talk) 20:20, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You may find better answers if you ask at WP:MCQ, where Wikipedia's copyright experts hang out. Maybe User:Moonriddengirl may also be a good person to ask. --Jayron32 20:31, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I take it you understand this isn't legal advice. I'm no Moonriddengirl, but I may be able to offer some clues.
First I think it's helpful to seperate the different elements. When it comes to simple photos of the artwork, they key issue is Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. Since that decision, the general belief in the US is that faithful reproductions of 2D artwork which are in the public domain aren't copyrightable. Based on the courts decision, the belief is that any reproductions which are solely trying to show what the artwork looks like lack the level of originality required to be copyrightable.
Partly as a result of National Portrait Gallery and Wikimedia Foundation copyright dispute, the Wikimedia Foundation has made it clear [14] they believe we should ignore claims of copyright on such reproductions in other countries, this has been accepted by the community so that even in the Wikimedia Commons such cases are an exception to the general requirement that content be of a suitable licence in the country of origin and the US, Commons:Commons:When to use the PD-Art tag.
Now this case has a few complicating factors. One is the restoration. The reason why that probably doesn't affect things is because the intent of the restoration was to restore the artwork to how it looked originally. Regardless of whether this was achieved, it seems unlikely that the restores are going to say that there was any attempt at originality or creativity. Note that as per the decision, it doesn't matter how much skill or how much time or how difficult the restoration was.
In fact similarly to the decision, any arguement over the level of skill etc required to restore the artwork to its original condition will likely negatively affect any claim of copyright. Something like [15] let alone [16] are far more likely to have a legitimate copyright claim, even if in most ways involving less skill. (The question of how much you have to modify a public domain work [17] to be eligible for copyright on you work isn't of course always clear.)
So the artwork itself likely remains in the public domain even after the restoration in the US.
The second complicating factor is that as I understand it, the artworks are often on curved surfaces and sometimes use architectural details as part of the art. Because of that, in some cases a copyright claim could probably be made over the photographs because they exhibit the level of originality or creativity required for copyright. (Or as the page I linked earlier says "by virtue of artistic choices available to the photographer such as framing, lighting and point of view".) Our choices appear to partly reflect that, for example File:Vatican-ChapelleSixtine-Plafond.jpg doesn't claim it's in the public domain.
A point to emphasise here is it's only the photos (or videos) that are copyrighted. The artwork itself remains in the public domain so anyone else can photograph it and freely licence their work, as seems to have happened with my example.
Note that wikimedia mostly only concerns itself with copyright restrictions. In particular, as per Commons:Commons:Image_casebook#Museum and_interior photography the general belief is that even if photography is forbidden or you are required to sign a contract restricting how you may use or licence photographs, that's an contractual issue between you and the place involved which doesn't directly affect us (except we may lose a contributor). We don't encourage people to violate such contracts, but we don't forbid it either and if you've licenced your works under a suitable licence then we will accept such contributions. And since your licence is generally taken to be irrevokable, we will likely reject even attempts by you to have the works deleted at a later date. (We do of course remind contributors that in all case they should consider how their local laws etc may affect them.)
On the other hand, while I don't know what the Vatican rules for photography in the Sistine Chapel are, I'm presuming the 3 year thing means even they do allow photography in some cases now for people besides Nippon Television Network Corporation.
BTW in case this isn't obvious from what I said, in cases where these elements don't come in to play and it's a simple reproduction of the artwork, it doesn't matter who did the reproduction (took the photo) and what they may claim about what you can do with it. From both the wikimedia commons and wikipedia's POV, such reproductions aren't copyrightable so we can freely reproduce them.
Now as for photography and videos taken during the restoration, this is mostly a different issue. Except perhaps for those photographs primarily intended to show the partly restored work itself (although even these cases may be a bit complicated), as with the 3D elements, there is almost definitely going to be sufficient originality that a claim of copyright could be made. You'd need more info on the specific agreement between the Vatican and Nippon Television Network Corporation to know precisely what happened here.
I'd start with who took the photographs and videos. Was it people working for the Vatican or Nippon Television Network Corporation or both? Was Nippon Television Network Corporation doing the work for themselves, or were they doing it as a work for hire for the Vatican with an agreement they would have initial exclusivity? If Nippon Television Network Corporation were doing it for themselves, was the an agreement for a copyright assignment after a set period of time? Note that it's easily possible that Nippon Television Network Corporation were the primary ones documenting the restoration and they still have the copyright to their work. It's possible some people were doing it on behalf of the Vatican as well. It's also possible Nippon Television Network Corporation retains the copyright but they have an agreement with the Vatican that they can use that copyrighted work in some way.
Note that to get back to my earlier point, in any case it's very likely that the work documenting the restoration is copyrighted.
As for when it will expire, well I didn't bother to check Vatican law. But one thing to bear in mind is per Wikimedia:Resolution:Licensing policy for anything on any wikimedia foundation project (unless we're using the work under the limited circumstances allows by the projects EDP), we require that the work be under a suitable free licence or no licence is required i.e. the work is in the public domain in the US (well there are a tiny number of cases where there is some dispute but we allow them anyway). And since the US has no Rule of the shorter term, even after the copyright expires in the Vatican it may not necessarily have expired in the US.
Nil Einne (talk) 22:32, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]


January 24

Nation-States Based on Large-Scale Immigration (of a Specific Ethnic/Ethnoreligious Group)

I find it interesting that the Zionist movement leading to the creation of the nation-state of Israel was dramatically helped by large amounts of Jewish immigration into this area in the decades before the creation of Israel. To elaborate on what I mean -- http://www1.cbs.gov.il/reader/shnaton/templ_shnaton_e.html?num_tab=st02_09&CYear=2013 -- it appears that 65% of Israeli Jews were foreign-born in 1948, which was the year that Israel was created. Without large-scale Jewish immigration into Palestine in the decades before 1948, it is unlikely that there would have been enough Jews in Palestine to create a Jewish state there (after all, even with all of the Jewish immigration into Palestine in the decades before 1948, the Jewish state in the 1947 UN Partition Plan only had around half of its population be Jewish (with the other half being Arab).

My question here is asking whether or not there are any other cases of nation-states which were established (or re-established) in locations where establishing such nation-states (with a majority of the population belonging to a certain ethnic group) would arguably not have been possible without large-scale immigration of this ethnic (or ethnoreligious) group into this area in the several decades before the creation (or re-creation) of these nation-states?

I apologize if my question here is a little vague. I genuinely tried to make it as clear as I could. Futurist110 (talk) 03:31, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Iceland and Greenland. Greenland had the first permanent European settlements in North America. Greenland was mostly settled by immigrants from Iceland. Greenlanders shared their island with native North Americans who lived north of the Arctic Circle. Greenland was independent for about 200 years until they submitted to Norwegian rule. Contact with Greenland was lost during the Little Ice Age and all the Greenlanders died of famine.
Sleigh (talk) 07:57, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe Iceland can work for this, but Greenland is not a nation state for/of a European ethnic group, and thus, I don't think that Greenland will work for this. Futurist110 (talk) 08:36, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There have to be close to zero native-born inhabitants of Vatican City. 50.0.121.102 (talk) 09:32, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but I don't think anyone has ever suggested a "Vaticani" ethnicity or culture exists. So it isn't a nation-state. 81.133.41.14 (talk) 15:14, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
For some values of "ethnic group" and "several decades", every country in the Americas. Rojomoke (talk) 12:01, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Do you mean back when human beings first immigrated to the Americas thousands of years or more ago? Futurist110 (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Peru still has a significant indigenous population and culture, using non-European languages. I'm not sure if that applies anywhere else in Latin America? 81.133.41.14 (talk) 15:17, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The History_of_Turkey may be of interest, in particular the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum, which was established as a Turkic state in 1077 in what was formerly part of the Byzantine Empire. Many Turkic people had migrated from other parts of the Seljuq Empire in the earlier part of the 11th century, which made the formation of this sultanate possible. - Lindert (talk) 12:32, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this might very well work for this. Futurist110 (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Given the early history of the Kingdom of England (and the immigration of Angles and Saxons and Jutes to the island of Britain), I think that might qualify. Blueboar (talk) 15:41, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Futurist110 (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's the traditional view but now rather contentious. This article says there were "around 2 million [Celtic] natives in later Germanic settlement areas in the post-Roman period. Between 250,000-500,000 male [Anglo-Saxon] immigrants suggested by Y-Chromosome data, possibly around 100,000 female immigrants estimated." So probably not. Alansplodge (talk) 02:58, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Australia and New Zealand may qualify, depending on what you mean by "several decades". Singapore was created because of mutual mistrust between the majority Malays of Malaysia and Singapore's nonidigenous Chinese majority, who had immigrated over a period of more than a century before independence. Marco polo (talk) 19:18, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Australia and New Zealand aren't really nation-states, though, are they? Or are you talking about when the first human beings moved to Australia and New Zealand thousands of years ago? What you wrote here about Singapore is very interesting (I didn't know about this before right now), and thus, if it is true, then Singapore might partially work for this (since it was apparently created as a state/territory for Chinese people, but since it was not created as a nation-state for most or all Chinese people worldwide (China, on the other hand, does appear to fit this role/description)). Futurist110 (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What's your definition of a nation-state? The colonies which eventually merged to create Australia were populated by very close to exclusively British stock. The White Australia Policy, which stood until 1973, kept those evil people with different coloured skin out of the place until relatively recently. Even today, some of us believe that our government's anti-boat people policies are a way of keeping happy those who want maintain that homogeneity. HiLo48 (talk) 03:01, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I suppose that a nation-state is a state which is created (mainly) for a certain ethnic or ethnoreligious group, especially if within its own borders, this state has a plurality or a majority of the people which belong to this specific ethnic/ethnoreligious group worldwide (for instance, a plurality of the world's Jews currently live in Israel). Was the White Australia policy's goal to keep Australia overwhelmingly British or overwhelmingly White in general? Either way, though, the British themselves are not one single ethnic or ethnoreligious group--after all, there are English, Welsh, Scottish, et cetera people. Thus, I do not think that I would consider Australia, New Zealand, or the United Kingdom to be nation-states (though I would consider England, Wales, and Scotland to be three separate and different nation-states if they all became their own independent countries). Futurist110 (talk) 08:47, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The Moors formed a series of nations in what is now Spain, following their invasion. They were eventually pushed back out, however. See Moors#Moors_of_Iberia. StuRat (talk) 19:42, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this might very well work here as well. Futurist110 (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not sovereign, but how about Utah? —Tamfang (talk) 20:32, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Utah would have worked here if I was asking about religious groups rather than ethnic/ethnoreligious groups. I don't think that Mormons really have or ever had an ethnic component to them like, say, Jews did and do. Futurist110 (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Liberia is one good example; see also: History of Liberia, (but that article needs work). ~E:71.20.250.51 (talk) 22:16, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I've previously thought about Liberia before I asked this question. However, freed Blacks and their descendants are not an ethnic or ethnoreligious group by themselves, are they? They arguably are (or were) a part of the Black/African-American community in the U.S., but as far as I know, they themselves are not a separate ethnic group of their own. Futurist110 (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the freed slaves at that time were born in the US, (decedents from various African regions) and had little or no connection with the culture/religion/language/etc of the indigenous people. It is a matter of opinion, I suppose, whether or not they constituted a distinct "ethnic group".  ~E:71.20.250.51 (talk) 23:44, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
True, but it is worth noting that these freed slaves and their descendants did have their own culture and perhaps even their own dialects from their and/or their ancestors' time living in the United States. Also, please read my comment right below this one--I think that Liberia might partially work for this, though as you said, it might be a matter of opinion (at least to some degree). Futurist110 (talk) 00:42, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought, after reading the Right of return article here on Wikipedia, Liberia might partially work for this since it allows anyone of Black/"Negro" ancestry to immigrate there (but since it was probably not created as a nation-state for most or all Black people worldwide). Futurist110 (talk) 23:35, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure if these meet your criteria, but Cape Verde and São Tomé and Príncipe were uninhabited until the Portuguese came along. —Nelson Ricardo (talk) 02:51, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I will need to do more research on them myself and then to get back to you in a little while. Futurist110 (talk) 08:50, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

David Campbell Bannerman

Is the British Conservative MEP David Campbell Bannerman any relation to the former Prime Minister Henry Campbell-Bannerman? It's quite a distinctive name, but the article doesn't give any details about his family. 81.133.41.14 (talk) 15:12, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He does not mention this on his own website. (One would think he would mention it if he was related.) And not according to this blog where it says "he was not in any material way related to the Liberal PM Sir Henry Campbell Bannerman".--Shantavira|feed me 16:27, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Approaching the question from the other direction: Henry Campbell-Bannerman was born Campbell, and adopted -Bannerman as part of an inheritance from his uncle (it was his mother's family name). As such, it seems likely all his immediate relatives were either Campbell or Bannerman, not hyphenated. HCB and his wife did not have any children, so the name would not be passed on from them. Hence, probably a coincidence... Andrew Gray (talk) 19:01, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
According to the BBC he is a distant relative. Various blogs claim he is Sir Henry's great nephew.--Britannicus (talk) 23:49, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This anti-UKIP blog says that "David is still persisting in repeating the lie that he is the great, great nephew of Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman" and that "On Bannerman’s Bombay birth certificate his first names are David Campbell and his surname is Bannerman. He used to be known as David Bannerman. When he stood in Scotland (1997) it suddenly became David Campbell-Bannerman (with a hyphen). LINK When he stood in 2001 for the Tories in Warrington and Leamington he reverted to David Bannerman. BBC NEWS VOTE 2001 RESULTS & CONSTITUENCIES Warwick & Leamington The fable about being the great, great nephew of the dead prime minister wasn't used again until he joined UKIP." Make of that what you will. Alansplodge (talk) 02:16, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
A comment on this page says " HC-B’s sister Louisa also seems to have married a Bannerman and given the name Campbell-Bannerman to her descendants, though I think they might have died out in the male line and no longer have any actual Campbell Bannermans.". Alansplodge (talk) 02:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I hadn't considered the possibility of a sibling doing the same thing! That said, I'm happy to take Anthony Wells as well-informed on such things & class a close relationship as "unlikely". Andrew Gray (talk) 13:11, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Recording genealogies in old family bibles

I know some families, particularly if they have Christian ancestors, may keep really old bibles in their homes, presumably passed down the generations and keeping records of marriages, deaths, and births. Is there a particular format to this sort of record-keeping? Did people from previous decades record the wives' names and all their grandchildren's names? In which tradition/denomination does this occur? What is the purpose of keeping it in the Bible instead of in a separate book? 140.254.227.114 (talk) 15:27, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

One reason people may have used their Bibles to record their family trees: as recently as the 1700s, books were relatively expensive... only the rich had lots of books, and for the poor and those on the frontiers it was not uncommon for the family bible to be the only book the family owned.
Even when a family owned other books, the bible was often considered the most important book they owned. It would get passed down from generation to generation as a treasured heirloom. By using the family bible as a repository of family history, you could ensure that the record would be passed down, and continued from one generation to another.
Then there is the fact that the early chapters of the Bible are filled with "Begats"... a family tree for the Old Testament Patriarchs (and for Jesus). That makes it a logical book in which to start listing your own "Begats"... which after a few generations becomes a family tree. Blueboar (talk) 16:11, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the format, some bibles had dedicated forms in them that could be filled in with details of marriages and births. If you search Google Images with your question header you will find plenty of examples.--Shantavira|feed me 16:33, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I meant the family relationships and whether or not all the names would be included or just the heirs and their wives and children. 140.254.227.114 (talk) 16:48, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
An American family Bible of 1859
The examples that I have seen, including the rather incomplete one from my own family, have just been a vertical list of entries, each entry usually including a date, the nature of the event (ie, birth or marriage), and by the name, generally including all the forenames. Some examples from Google are here, here and here. I have attached a picture from our Genealogy article which shows the pro forma pages that Shantavira describes above. I think that it's likely that only the immediate family would be recorded and not cousins or more distant relatives who would maybe have their own family Bible. It seems unlikely to me that parents would only record their first-born children - if nothing else because it was by no means certain that they would survive childhood. Alansplodge (talk) 18:19, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Did the Catholic church have problems with planets being named after Greek and Roman gods?

I know the Catholic church cared enough about astronomy to exert force on Galileo to stop saying the Earth went around the sun. I also know that the Galilean moons of Jupiter, as well as, well, Jupiter and the other planets known at the time, were given and had names which came from Greek and Roman mythology. I don't ever recall having heard in school of the Catholic church (which I only single out because it had so much power in those days) having any problem with the names of celestial objects deriving from what that religion must have considered false gods. Are there any sources someone can point to in which documents from Galileo's days talked about the names of the planets? 20.137.2.50 (talk) 18:32, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am not aware whether there was ever any campaign to rename the planets by the Church. But the names of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn were all traditional from before the Classical period of Greece and Rome. See, for instance, Jupiter#Mythology, where both th Greeks and the Romans named the largest planet after *Dyeus-Pəter, the Indo-European Sky Father. So, these planets had names for centuries or millennia before Galileo. Uranus, Neptune and Pluto were discovered well after Galileo's time. At first, Uranus was named Georgium Sidus by Herschel in honor of George III. This was not popular internationally, and hence the name of a pagan god was chosen to match European tradition. μηδείς (talk) 18:59, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Medeis -- I'm not sure that that's the case. The Latin word "Jupiter" certainly goes back to an early Indo-European phrase, but I doubt that the identification of that name or god with the planet we now call "Jupiter" goes back nearly that far. I think that the system of identification of planets with divinities that we know today actually originated in Babylonian astrology (which was tremendously influential during the Hellenistic period, almost displacing traditional religion and philosophy in some cases), so that "Marduk" = planet Jupiter, "Nebo" = planet Mercury, "Ishtar" = planet Venus, etc. According to Franz Cumont's Astrology and Religion among the Greeks and Romans, before the influence of Babylonian astrology, the Greeks actually called the planet Mars Πυροεις "fiery", the planet Jupiter Φαεθων "luminous", didn't always recognize the identity of the morning and evening stars (i.e. planet Venus), etc. AnonMoos (talk) 02:27, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't mean to imply that the planet names go back to common Indo-European, I said that the Greek and Roman names for the planet Jupiter do. I'll accept that Greek had an older name for Jupiter, but our article mentions one cognate to Jupiter. And I am aware that, for instance, the Indic names aren't the same as the Roman ones. And that the discovery that Lucifer and Venus were the same object seen at dawn and at dusk was a discovery made during recorded history. Addressing all those issues would have clouded my point, which is that these planets were known and named long before Galileo, and long before Christianity, in case the OP thought the naming or discovery of the planets was dated to Galilean times or the Christian era. μηδείς (talk) 02:55, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The Babylonian-influenced planet names in Greek date to a few centuries before Christianity ("after the fourth century" [BC] according to Cumont)... AnonMoos (talk) 03:18, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

20.137.2.50 -- In Franz Werfel's science fiction novel "Star of the Unborn", a far-future civilization (which is not Christian) uses Christianized names of the planets (due to intervening historical vicissitudes). So "Mary Magdalene" = Venus, "John the Baptist" = Mars, "Apostle Paul" = Saturn, "John Evangelist" = Mercury, and "Apostle Peter" = Jupiter. I don't know that anybody has ever attempted to impose a similar scheme in real life, though... AnonMoos (talk) 02:39, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose this is a good time to bring up the pagan Earendel. μηδείς (talk) 03:44, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Side-note

Although individuals may have, the Catholic Church never did "exert force on Galileo to stop saying the Earth went around the sun"; and Jesuit astronomers (such as Galileo contemporary Christopher Clavius) very much "cared about astronomy". Much has been written about this; (e.g., this treatise is fairly concise: The Galileo Affair). ~E:71.20.250.51 (talk) 19:37, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yes, they "cared about astronomy", in that they wanted to ensure that it fit everything either they, or the Bible, said. And certainly some individuals in The Church were more opposed to Galileo than others. However, the difficult individuals were in charge, and thus the official Church position was against the teachings of Galileo. StuRat (talk) 19:50, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Although condemned as "vehemently suspected of heresy" (emphasis mine) and subject to abjuration, his teachings were less problematic than the person himself. (E.g., the Holy Office granted imprimatur for The Complete Works of Galileo in 1781). ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 20:21, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
A mere 139 years after his death. Marco polo (talk) 22:11, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
True, but the bottom line is that the Church (which also defended Kepler) had no problems with the Galileo's assertions about the Copernican system; rather, it was his insistence that this theory can be demonstrated from the Scriptures.[18] ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 22:55, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Your link doesn't seem to be working; all I see is the cover of a book called Memoirs and Writings of the Very Reverend James F. Callaghan. Matt Deres (talk) 00:26, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm... I get page 326 of same (on Google Books). ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 02:07, 25 January 2014 (UTC) (try a less-crufty link?)→ http://books.google.com/books?id=oesYAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA326[reply]
Google Books seems to be very fickle about whom it shows what. I'm not sure if it's geographic or just random. Alansplodge (talk) 10:50, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Summary of page 326 with a bit from 327.     ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 17:26, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Under the patronage of Cardinal Del Monte, Galileo teaches the Copernican system for many years, and goes to Rome in 1607 where he is received with "highest honors" and is "pressingly invited" to give lectures after which the Pope gives him "marks of esteem". Four years later, he is summoned by Monty Python the Inquisition, having been accused by Lorini of "asserting that [the Copernican] theory could be demonstrated from the Scriptures"; evidenced by a letter from Galileo asserting such, with reference to Revelation. The rest of the page goes on about the fairness of the Inquisition regarding evidence.

The next page [327] describes a letter from Cardinal Barberini (who would become the next Pope; Urban VIII) imploring Galileo to stick to physics and mathematics, and not to meddle in theology and scripture. At this point, Galileo was free to go, but "[he] wished an official declaration that his astronomical opinion was taught by the Holy Scripture".

This is when things start to go badly, etc...

  • Callaghan, James Frederic. Memoirs and Writings of the Very Reverend James F. Callaghan, Part 4. Robert Clarke Company. pp. 326–327.
I don't know about the planets, but classical gods continued to be popular subjects for painting, poetry, music right through. --ColinFine (talk) 16:50, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

January 25

1942-43 Canadiens number 19

Why did Tony_Demers wear a number 19 on the front of his jersey in this picture when all his teammates have Habs logos? There's nothing about it on his Widipedia page (linked above). Hayttom 20:18, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

1942 Canadiens

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hayttom (talk • contribs) 20:18, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've cleaned up your image links. Rojomoke (talk) 20:24, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It does stand out, doesn't it? Can't find much about it, but he was arrested for manslaughter on September 19, 1949. Coincidence? Yes, probably. I'll keep digging, but it's hard to Google "#19". InedibleHulk (talk) 20:52, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
Just a guess, but the jersey might have been put on backwards (just to annoy folks 70+ years later)? ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 20:56, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It definitely worked. I hadn't noticed it till now, but it's bugging me. All I've found are a few other people wondering what's up with it. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:11, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
The entire thing looks different; the collar is not the same, nor are the patterns on the sleeves. My guess is that he wasn't wearing the proper jersey at all; maybe that's a warm up sweater or away uniform? Matt Deres (talk) 21:25, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
He only played 9 games that season and 7 the year before. Maybe they forgot he was part of the team until right before picture day. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:04, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
It's not an away uniform. I'm not sure whether the NHL's away uniforms in 1942 were the dark or light ones — it changed more than once over the years — but here's the other version of Montreal's uniform that year. I'm guessing either it's on back-to-front (perhaps the front was torn) or it's not a playing uniform at all. --50.100.193.107 (talk) 22:12, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

January 26

UK export items

what is the largest export item of united kingdom ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.43.229.246 (talk) 05:20, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Define "largest". Greatest total quantity? Greatest total dollar value? Greatest size of individual item? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:50, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Um, we don't measure our exports in dollars, Bugs... AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:56, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
D'oh! OK, in pounds or euros or whatever. Total monetary value. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:38, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
According to this document from the ONS (page 49, at the end), the UK's largest export item by value is the tautological "Mechanical Machinery", followed by "Electrical Machinery" and "Medical and Pharmaceutical products". Tevildo (talk) 09:27, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am surprised it's not financial services. OsmanRF34 (talk) 14:41, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Financial services aren't goods. I believe that is worth over £20 billion in direct tax to the government. Dmcq (talk) 17:03, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Mechanical machinery" is not necessarily tautological, Tevildo dear. There's also the (non-mechanical) "machinery of government" (one sometimes wishes the practitioners of which would be exported, permanently). -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:35, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
True in that direction, of course (a machine can be non-mechanical), but surely anything mechanical must be a machine? Discussions may continue at our discretion. The boring bit is that "Mechanical Machinery" is defined as "SITC (R4) classes 71 to 74 except class 716", so the "mechanical" isn't redundant in this application - they still could have come up with a different name for it, though. Tevildo (talk) 22:16, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I would not use the term machine to describe a simple lever, a claw-typecan opener, or a hammer, but they are certainly mechanical. Most definitions of machines specify them having several parts. -- Q Chris (talk) 10:39, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Trade Unionism in Banking in India

Hi, I am looking for information about "Trade Unionism in Banking in India". Can any one help me to get the information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.220.34.238 (talk) 05:27, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See Category:Finance sector trade unions of India for our list of articles on the various relevant unions. We don't have (at the moment) an article on this subject. Tevildo (talk) 09:38, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Stapling posters to trees

Are there any laws prohibiting people from stapling posters to trees in the United States, particularly the state of Georgia?--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 23:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The only thing I could find is in Arkansas; and only relates to "...any living tree, shrub, or other plant located upon the rights-of-way of any public road, highway, or street in this state".§ 5-67-103 (a : 1) Note: searching local ordinances for the entire US would be a daunting task. ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 00:30, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Bill posting.
Sleigh (talk) 00:33, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Presumably this relates to the question on the science desk about staples possibly harming trees. Countless cities and towns in America have ordinances regulating signs. Prohibitions against posting signs on trees, utility poles, etc., probably have as much to do with "clutter" as anything - as well as those objects next to roads are often owned by someone besides the homeowner. Your typical town will have regulations about how to post "for sale" signs, electioneering signs ("vote for Joe Schmo"), yard sale signs, etc. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:04, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

January 27

Patronage in Renaissance Italy (science)

I am having difficulty determining two things (from authoritative sources):
1.) What distinction (if any) was there between being a patron of an artist, and being a patron of a scientist? There are plenty of sources regarding the patronage of artists, but I am uneasy making the assumption that the same applies to scientists.
2.) How to make the distinction between a formal (contractual?) patronage (per Baxandall, et al) and the informal definition of patronage (Wolf, et al) — or is such a distinction irrelevant or non-existent?

Specifically, how to distinguish among the "patrons" of Galileo; some perhaps, merely being supporters of higher status; other(s) may have formally had specific (expressed or implied?) obligations and responsibilities.
—Any assistance or clarification appreciated; thanks, ~E:71.20.250.51 (talk) 02:20, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There really wasn't the distinction between artists and scientists which exists now. Leonardo da Vinci, for example, was both. The term Renaissance Man reflects this. StuRat (talk) 03:57, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Can IOTV this bulletproof vest through Cadana/US(CA State) customs?

I have an IOTV vest in France.I am going to ship it to Cadana or US first,(Chinese customs won't work on our spring festival...) then ship it to HongKong.Finally,it will be in Chinese mainland. I don't know my plan is or isn't legal in Canada or(and) US law. I checked the Wikipedia,it says:"Is illegal to possess body armour without a licence (unless exempted) issued by the provincial government.",but if I ship it to US first I am worried about can I ship this IOTV made by POINT BLANK out...... Hope you can tell me sth about these laws,or give me any suggest.....Thx.. And,please upload suggest to my talk in Chinese Wikipedia.Thx very much! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Axmaxmaxm3 (talk • contribs) 08:44, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Number of Criminal Charges in the US that End in a Plea Bargain

I'm looking for a reliable source for the number of criminal cases in the US that end in a plea bargain rather than going to trial. The best I've found so far is this document which contains the line:

During Fiscal Year 2010, a total of 79,260, or 97 percent, of all convicted defendants pled guilty prior to or during trial. This represents a less than one percent increase in the percentage of convicted defendants who pled guilty when compared to the prior year.

Which makes it sound that only 3% of federal cases go to trail. Am I reading that right? --CGPGrey (talk) 10:53, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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