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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by CaptainJustice (talk | contribs) at 17:35, 5 July 2017 (→‎Controversy). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Untitled

Image and infobox added to article, request that both be improved (changed to a modeling-specific infobox perhaps)

I like you,from China. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.128.14.208 (talk) 06:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redundant?

Gadot was born in Rosh Ha'ayin, Israel. In 2007, she took a part in the Maxim photo shoot "Women of the Israeli army", which focused on Israeli models who were members of the Israeli Army.

Umm...aren't virtually all young Israeli women members of the Israeli army? This is like "Women of the American electorate," which focuses on American models are are members of the American electorate. john k (talk) 22:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not all of them serve in the army. Besides, this seems to have been Maxim's criterion. -- Nudve (talk) 05:18, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity

i think its fascinating they chose Gadot, of obvious israeli or general middle east ethnicity, to play a character usually represented as "all american". I would love to find references showing why this is, but i suspect its related to how they will portray WW in the new film (which we probably wont get info on until its release). WW is, after all, not american, but an Amazonian, whatever that translates as.(mercurywoodrose)99.157.205.106 (talk) 23:58, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gal Gadot is of Ashkenazi Jewish descent (her family came to Israel from Austria, Czechoslovakia, Germany, and Poland), which means she is the same ethnicity as most Jewish actors you're familiar with. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 05:02, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
https://web.archive.org/web/20131212075857/http://www.totallyjewish.com/entertainment/features_and_reviews/?content_id=16371 - referenced for her family's origins - doesn't mention them. Mcljlm (talk) 23:04, 6 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
yeah, same as my great grandfather. superhero films tend to be either all american (white) or occasionally black actors, with villains often portrayed by those historically, or stereotypically, considered "ethnic". This casting is different, and i expect commentary from reliable sources on this at some point.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:12, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean, the casting is "different"? Many superheroes have been portrayed by actors of Ashkenazi Jewish background, i.e. Spider-Man (Andrew Garfield), The Spirit (Gabriel Macht), Black Widow (Scarlett Johansson), Supergirl (Helen Slater), or Batgirl (Alicia Silverstone). While not playing a superhero, Israeli-born Natalie Portman was the female lead in the Thor films. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 07:45, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Its a minor, and perhaps silly, idea. I suspect she was chosen in part because she "looks" middle eastern (whatever that means, i know there is no such thing), and is NOT what most people expect wonder woman to look like. I am expecting commentary on her looks (she is already getting commentary about her slim build as not suitable, which may be notable enough to mention in the article on the movie). hollywood has a long history of ethnic typecasting of all sorts, and she may have been chosen for her "exotic" looks (similar to natalie portman, actually, now that you mention her, and she has played "alien princesses" twice now), and thus could be portrayed as coming from a far away land-the island of the Amazons. I am thinking of how Yul Brynner was cast as Thai, and Anthony Quinn as just about every ethnicity under the sun. again, i really probably shouldnt belabor this point, and you are correct that ashkenazi jewish actors are found all throughout hollywood films in all sorts of roles. i just think she is going to bet some attention and commentary for this aspect of the casting, esp. after people like lynda carter played her so "all american". and to be clear, this is not a personal critique i have about the casting (i think she will be great, which is not what most people are saying at this point), im just trying to state a possibly interesting area of commentary. maybe no one will comment, in which case we are further along in our social progress than i thought. a great example of a film which completely exploded all ethnic type casting was The Mahabharata (1989 film), where various members of the 2 warring East Indian families are portrayed by every imaginable ethnicity.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 08:23, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
She doesn't look "Middle Eastern", she looks European, like Keira Knightley, Audrey Tautou, Monica Bellucci, or Penélope Cruz. Southern Europeans are still European. A Sephardi Jew like Emmanuelle Chriqui looks more "Middle Eastern", as does a Persian Jew like Bahar Soomekh (though Persians are not Middle Eastern). Wonder Woman is Greek, and Gal Gadot reminds me a little of Maria Callas. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 08:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, she looks greek. thats my point. she doesnt look strictly anglo, or nordic. thus, in the cloistered world of comic book character ethnicity, she represents an effort to expand the notion of superhero to people not anglo. and i suspect thats one reason she was chosen, if the director is trying to revamp the character from scratch.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:51, 15 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wonder Woman is Graeco-Turkish in ethnicity. (If anything). Badgerpatrol (talk) 12:29, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Why Turkish? All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 14:38, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Themiscyra was in Asia Minor, I believe. (Although in the comics I think it moves around a bit). Badgerpatrol (talk) 14:57, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In answer to all the above commenters, there is more to this "controversy" than anyone so far has been willing to state: First, Wonder Woman is Mediterrean (and "northern" at that,[which also includes Turkey'] as opposed to "southern" Mediterrean, i.e. African (Egyptian, Cyrenaican, Algerian, Moroccan, Libyan; or Palestinian, Lebanese, or Syrian. So, this gives some credence to this unknown actress. that being said, I contest why not have an American actress fulfill the role; or is it that the obvious years-long contention by movie-industry honchos could not come to any consensus of who should play the role, and what ethnicity should represent the character (it goes without saying that an African-American, or Africana actress would be THE last consideration-if at all-to be a candidate! Also, in the article, all these references to her "Jewishness" (added to her gritty credentials as an army commando,)and "Israeliness" as qualification for her playing this character seems as self-serving to the notorious nepotism in Hollywood. Doubtful she'll be elible to knock-off Audrey Hepburn's mantle. (Otherwise, I really cared for the character except for the early 70s iteration, when she was stripped of her powers, and appeared more like a "two-dimensional" profile-at least. (Taking her powers then was absolutely sexist, I thought at the time!! --65.88.88.125 (talk) 16:14, 1 November 2014 (UTC)Veryverser[reply]

The American actress Lynda Carter's character played a Mediterrean princess, whose alter-ego was an "All-American" seeming professional female, "Diana Prince"!!! --65.88.88.125 (talk) 16:19, 1 November 2014 (UTC)Veryverser[reply]

Military service

Military service is compulsory in Israel (although some avoid it). Woman are required to serve 21 months (there also seems to be some variation in time depending on the type of training received, I didn't do a very deep search). Service is required at age 18 although there seem to be allowances. The article says Gadot served for 2 years, so basically the time required.

Not many countries have compulsory military service for women. You can read between the lines but one specific sentence "Gadot joined the Israeli Army." is misleading. Without knowing the cultural background and the _unusual_ fact that service is required, that phrasing implies much more choice than really exists. I do not want to diminish her service to her country in any way, but an encyclopedia should be clear and unambiguous and try to avoid misinterpretations that might arise for readers with different cultural backgrounds. I would advise a more cautious wording. (Also while writing this and looking closely at the sources, I notice that the paragraph says, she was modeling at age nineteen, and again somewhat redundantly says, "At age 19, Gadot joined the Israeli Army" but the source UMM.ca says "At the age of 20," so the current wording is not supported by the source. The source for her studying law is also unclear, the phrasing implies she left her studies incomplete as her film career took off, but the source says she was working as a model and actress. It is entirely possible she was also studying law but I haven't trawled through the other sources yet to try and find out where that is stated.)

The article already requires review but I don't have a specific wording yet that I think would be better. I'd appreciate if someone could take a look and maybe phrase things more cautiously. (Corrections, or named references, may also be needed to make sources clearer, for the minor issues I mentioned in parenthesis in the previous paragraph.) -- 93.107.152.97 (talk) 00:30, 11 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Hebrew Wikipedia, Gadot was not a "Combat Instructor" but a "Combat Fitness Trainer" (She didn't teach soldiers how to fight. She kept them in physical shape). Barakb32 (talk) 12:17, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Infobox image

This is hardly suitable for an infobox image when we have a proper portrait photo. We're not Maxim. --NeilN talk to me 20:09, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

NeilN & IP editor, please review my revision. Please, all of you, refrain from any further edit warring. This way everyone is happy. EditsOrArticles (talk) 20:53, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Still not sure the second photo is needed. --NeilN talk to me 21:11, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I liked it (for scientific reasons), and it fits just fine. Anyway, can you help me with my question down here? EditsOrArticles (talk) 21:16, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to assume that "scientific reasons" is either a joke or an ESL language difficulty. The photos were taken 16 minutes apart. Thus, the second photo adds no reader value, unless you consider cleavage reader value. Be selective with images. ―Mandruss ☎ 21:56, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Gadot is one of the only actresses to attend 2 different Comic-Con panels for 2 different films, at the same day (Wonder Woman & Justice League). We can showcase that with two different pictures. EditsOrArticles (talk) 22:08, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer the less zoomed one, although having them both is just as good. Ismadeby (talk) 13:57, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Neil and Mandruss that the second photo, which is from the same event as the infobox photo, is not needed in the article. Calibridor removed it as well, it was replaced by EoA with the reasoning there was consensus to keep it. That is untrue. With my comments here, and Calibridor's removal, that makes for two editors wanting to keep it and four wanting it to be removed. Consensus is clearly for removal. I will be removing it after I finish this talk page comment. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 11:18, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My removal was based on adding the original photo, which has elements of both of the photos. I assume the point of the second image was to show more of her body, and the original photo before it was cropped, for no apparent reason that I can see, does that. Calibrador (talk) 23:32, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Skin tone

While on the subject, the skin tone in the infobox photo seems too pink on my computer, as if she has a minor sunburn. Maybe she did have a minor sunburn, but we don't have to show it. Anybody else? If so, I can fix that. ―Mandruss ☎ 22:01, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Someone had Photoshop'd her head a tad too much. This is the original version. EditsOrArticles (talk) 22:08, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mandruss can you adjust the colors again? It looks a bit too yellow-greyish now. EditsOrArticles (talk) 22:26, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Good job Mandruss. This version of yours is actually better. EditsOrArticles (talk) 22:33, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know which version that is. ―Mandruss ☎ 22:35, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The second of yours, and third in general. Would you also help me with my question down here? EditsOrArticles (talk) 22:38, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In other words, the current version. Fine, I'll leave it unless someone complains. It is showing the original version in the infobox for me, for some reason, but I'll assume that's a problem on my end. I can't help you down there because I don't know IPA. ―Mandruss ☎ 22:41, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not just my end, something's wrong here. Look at the file page. Look at the thumbnail for the current version. Look at the lying-down letter C on the sign behind her. You can see about 90% of the letter, which is how that version of the image looks on my computer. Now click on the thumbnail. You now see less of the C, perhaps 70% of it. The thumbnail is correct, the image itself is the original. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:11, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's a wikiMedia glitch. Try to clean your browser's cache files. EditsOrArticles (talk) 23:13, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Done, also restarted browser (FF 47.0.1). No change. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:19, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you should try to re-upload it with 1 less pixel to force update? Or just wait. EditsOrArticles (talk) 23:21, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Done (took 20 pixels off the bottom), cleared cache again, no change. Clicking on current thumbnail still shows original image. Clicking on the -1 thumbnail now shows the correct -1 image, however. My infobox still shows the original. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:35, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Name pronunciation

Can anyone confirm that this is actually how you would use this special spelling method to pronounce Gal Gadot's name correctly? 

  gah-L GAH-do-T'

And here is her saying it at Jimmy Kimmel's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA8pQMJrcNY/ EditsOrArticles (talk) 21:01, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe this will help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V4XyghZQ-4. I speak Hebrew but I don't know how to read this special spelling method. (Tag me) Sokuya (talk) 00:49, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This has just been edited sourced to a YouTube clip and contradicted what was there before, so I have removed the unreferenced version. However, interpreting the articulation of one speaker on a sound clip is not satisfactory as a source, so would welcome input from someone knowledgeable about Hebrew pronunciation: Noyster (talk), 18:44, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The second pronunciation is about Hebrew and Hebrew has only five vowels, so there's nothing "contradicting" there, and there's no way the Hebrew pronunciation of her name would be transcribed other than [ˈɡal ɡaˈdot]. As for the English pronunciation, in the cited video she pronounces her own name with the first syllable with a somewhat fronted vowel ([a ~ ä]), but definitely not with a back vowel [ɑ], and the last syllable with a lengthened [o]. This is consistent with the vowels Hebrew has (except anglicized to some extent), so in the diaphonemic transcription system Wikipedia uses for English pronunciation notation, /ˈɡæl ɡəˈdoʊt/ is how it would be transcribed ([a] and [oː] are how /æ/ and /oʊ/ are pronounced in some dialects. As a YouTube user noted, Gadot is closer to "boat" than to "dot" in her own pronunciation); although, granted, since she is not a native speaker of English and her name is merely Hebrew, it could be argued that there is little point or evidence to have the English pronunciation notation in the article and that it would be better only to have the Hebrew pronunciation and let the reader decide how they're going to pronounce her name. Nardog (talk) 17:43, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If "she pronounces it the same in all languages", then that means she doesn't have an anglicized way of pronouncing her name in English, which is all the more reason to include the Hebrew pronunciation only. The problem with that Kimmel video is that she is only correcting Kimmel and never pronounces her full name in isolation, not to mention we don't get to hear her pronounce her first name. In order to include an English pronunciation transcription, we would need a source in which she introduces herself with the full name in English, preferably with an enough amount of speech to distinguish /æ/ vs. /ɑː/, /oʊ/ vs /ɒ/, etc. English and Hebrew simply don't have the same phonological system, so it would be impossible to transcribe the way she pronounces her name with {{IPAc-en}} or {{Respell}} if she doesn't have an anglicized pronunciation (or unless a particular way of pronouncing her name in English becomes verifiably prevalent regardless of her own pronunciation). Nardog (talk) 03:56, 28 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nardog Do you mean a video like this? I must say, as a native Hebrew speaker, she's saying her name in full Israeli ascent - a name is a name no matter the language. Sokuya (talk) 12:10, 28 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hebrew pronunciations are similar to Japanese. A vowel like 'o' represents 'dot', and not 'boat'. A vowel like 'a' represnts 'father', and not 'dad'. (Source: My native language) 79.182.172.150 (talk) 05:58, 1 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The English notation has been reinstated citing this article, but whoever wrote it clearly didn't understand how language works. As mentioned above, the vowel in the final syllable is [o] ([o̞] to be precise), which doesn't exist in English. So English speakers are likely to perceive it as whatever is the closest sound that exists in their accent when they hear her pronunciation. Chances are Americans hear the sound of boat, while Britons hear the sound of dot, because generally the words are pronounced respectively with [oʊ] (starts with a back sound with lip rounding) and [ɑ] (no rounding) in many accents of North America and [əʊ] (starts with a schwa, i.e. no rounding) and [ɒ] (single sound, rounded) in RP. But strictly speaking neither are correct because [oʊ] is two sounds, [ɒ] is too low, and [əʊ]/[ɑ] are not round for good measure. Whatever the case, the confusion seems primarily to lie in whether or not the final "t" is pronounced (mistaking it for a French name), so, again, we can't possibly have one definitive notation until one particular way is adopted by the majority of English speakers, and it might be better if we just had one Hebrew pronunciation and let the reader decide how to articulate it. Nardog (talk) 10:35, 5 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, the correct pronunciation is GAHL GA DOTE (with a long "O" sound and more or less equal emphasis on all three syllables). And Gal rhymes with doll.--Geewhiz (talk) 11:37, 5 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Children's names

I think WP:MINORS applies here: the children's names should not be included, even if substantiated by reliable sources. The guidance states "Do not name or otherwise identify the person, even if good sources do publish the name, when a more general description will suffice."- Bri (talk) 01:05, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Name

The original version of the family name was Grünstein, as they did not come from any English-speaking country. It is German, with an Umlaut. The literal translation into English would be Green stone. So apparently after emigration they felt they had to alter the vowl to ease pronounciation by people unfamiliar with German sounds. - The same happened in many instances in North America after Emigration. You easily recognize that in a name if you are familiar with the language.

Regards, --147.142.186.54 (talk) 19:46, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Lede

The lede summarizes the article. Notable events should be covered in the lede; consistent removal of notable events (Miss Israel Pageant win, and Fast and Furious role) are notable items within her biography, and should be included. These are items that made her notable long before Wonder Woman was ever offered for a role, as shown by her notability prior to 2014. Scr★pIronIV 21:26, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Sokuya (talk) 23:09, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. It looks to me like the lead can be developed more into more substantial paragraphs. Looking at articles for comparable actresses might be helpful. Also, since Gadot winning Miss Israel is cited in the body of the article the citation does not need to appear in the lead. Knope7 (talk) 00:31, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I expanded it a little. I think the article could benefit from some reorganizing. I think it's fine to separate modeling and acting into their own sections, but even within an individual section the article jumps back and forth in time and can be hard to follow. Knope7 (talk) 01:21, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Activism and recognition" section

The current version of the article has a section named "Activism and recognition". The section has a single paragraph which states:

On October 21, 2016, the 75th anniversary of her first appearance, the Wonder Woman character was designated by the United Nations as its "Honorary Ambassador for the Empowerment of Women and Girls", a gesture intended to promote global gender equality and empowerment. In attendance to mark the occasion was Gadot, fellow Wonder Woman actress Lynda Carter, DC Entertainment President Diane Nelson, Wonder Woman director Patty Jenkins and U.N. Under-Secretary General Cristina Gallach.

The content of this paragraph is

A) Not recognition: Gadot was not recognized, the character Wonder Woman was recognized
B) Not activism: This was just part of the promotion of the movie
C) Not worth mentioning: because less than two months later, the character was stripped of its dubious title of "Honorary Ambassador for the Empowerment of Women and Girls" (see story by CNN titled "UN drops Wonder Woman as honorary ambassador")

I am therefore removing this section. Sometimes the sky is blue (talk) 14:27, 27 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Gal Gadot joins to The Academy

  • Academy, The. "New Academy Members". Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. Retrieved 28 June 2017. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sokuya (talk • contribs) 22:47, 28 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Controversy

This section was recently removed from the military service section by Avaya1, a biased pro-Israel user who has a history of adding pro-Israel material and removing material which paints Israel in a negative light from various articles. This was done under the pretence that it was political and should not be included in actor entries. This is not reasonable as wiki entries should very much contain political leanings and affiliations, especially for those actors who use their spotlight to shine light onto these personal leanings.

The movie has been banned in a number of countries due to these remarks by the actor; it would be disingenuous to pretend that it was not relevant or important.

I propose that we add to the personal life section, or create a new activism section, or a controversy section:


Gadot has spoken publicly about her support for the Israeli military in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. She was "Attacked for Being 'Zionist'" by commenters, as reported by an Israeli Newspaper.[1] As the conflict between Israel and Gaza deteriorated, she uploaded a photograph of herself praying with her daughter Alma, and wrote “I am sending my love and prayers to my fellow Israeli citizens. Especially to all the boys and girls who are risking their lives protecting my country against the horrific acts conducted by Hamas, who are hiding like cowards behind women and children...We shall overcome!!! Shabbat Shalom!"[2]
Her latest film, Wonder Woman, was banned in Lebanon by the Lebanese government following an effort by a group called Campaign to Boycott Supporters of Israel which accused Gadot of "boasting about the army training her for Hollywood" and condemned her for supporting the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict,[3] in addition to Gadot's service during the 2006 Lebanon War.[3][4] The film was consequently also banned in Tunisia, and Qatar.[5]


  • Reply to edit request: "flagging her as Zionist" is never going to fly on a BLP. "Owing this to the ongoing conflict between most of the Arab world and Israel since its foundation" isn't comprehensible and if it were, probably wouldn't belong either. WP:CIRCULAR references are not proper. Suggest you rewrite this material neutrally and without adding personal interpretation. - Bri (talk) 01:22, 5 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply to reply: Thank you for the assistance. "flagging her as Zionist" has been removed and replaced by a quote directly from the Israeli newspaper source. If this can be worded better, then please do suggest appropriate wording. The 'incomprehensible' section has also been removed. Explicit information regarding her statement has been added for clarity, including sources. CaptainJustice (talk) 11:52, 5 July 2017 (UTC) CaptainJustice[reply]
Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 14:58, 5 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply to reply: That semi-protected template was added automatically, and I do not know what it means to its full extent. I have now removed it. I simply wish to add a controversy section to the page easily. I'll try adding it to the "New Section" part of wiki instead. Kindly bear with me...
  1. ^ JTA. "'Wonder Woman' Gal Gadot Attacked for Being 'Zionist' on Twitter". Haaretz. Retrieved 2017-02-06.
  2. ^ The Independent http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/wonder-woman-gal-gadot-on-israel-gaza-israeli-actresss-pro-idf-stance-causes-controversy-9643412.html. Retrieved 01 May 2017. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help); Missing or empty |title= (help)
  3. ^ a b Robinson, Joanna. "Why Wonder Woman Faces an Unexpected Ban". HWD. Retrieved 1 June 2017.
  4. ^ "Lebanese ministry bans 'Wonder Woman' film over Israeli actress". Reuters. 2017. Retrieved 1 June 2017.
  5. ^ Daily Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4661864/Qatar-latest-country-ban-Wonder-Woman-Israeli-Gal-Gadot.html. Retrieved 05 July 2017. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help); Missing or empty |title= (help)
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