User talk:Deisenbe

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Your thread has been archived

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Your thread has been archived

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Disambiguation link notification for July 26

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Your thread has been archived

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Your thread has been archived

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Proposed deletion of Flagger (Confederate flag erector)

The article Flagger (Confederate flag erector) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

WP:NEOLOGISM which is not used by reliable sources.

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Second opinion

Hi. We are trying to find a way to add more referenced content about Nathan Bedford Forrest and his Nathan Bedford Forrest Bust|bust]] to a few articles, especially that one and this one, at User talk:Carptrash#Second opinion. Since you edit a lot about CSA monuments, perhaps you would be a good editor to do this well?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:56, 30 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I’m not positive what you want, but I don’t think I’m the right one. I know nothing about Nashville or what would be appropriate in such an article. Thanks for asking. deisenbe (talk) 11:36, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Texas Confederate Museum

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A tag has been placed on Texas Confederate Museum requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be an unambiguous copyright infringement. This page appears to be a direct copy from https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/lbt06. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images taken from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites or other printed material as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

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Help me

This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can ask another question on your talk page, contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse.

I wrote an article on the Texas Confederate Museum. It was marked for speedy deletion because of copyright violation. I contested this and said I was rewriting it with other sources, and in fact I’ve been doing that this morning (adding other sources). But now it is gone with not even a word to me. I don’t even have a copy of my work from this morning.

This is very discouraging. What should I do?

deisenbe (talk) 15:07, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Last copy e-mailed. Ronhjones ^(Talk) 17:29, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Help me!

This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can ask another question on your talk page, contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse.

Thank you for the email with my work on the deleted article.

Why was there no reply to my saying I was working on the article to addrsss the copyright issue?

Why was the article deleted when I was actively working on it?

At the least this is a great example of lack of courtesy.

deisenbe (talk) 13:03, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, even if only for a short time while you are "working on it". If you want to work on it, do so offline and then upload to Wikipedia once the copyright issues have been addressed. If you want more help, change the {{help me-helped}} back into a {{help me}}, stop by the Teahouse, Wikipedia's live help channel, or the help desk to ask someone for assistance. Primefac (talk) 15:50, 4 August 2018 (UTC)Template:Z163[reply]

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Your thread has been archived

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Lynching-infobox

Hello. I saw you’ve added some recent victims of lynching in the lynchings-infobox. However, you did not add those infoboxes to the appropriate articles. Therefore, I did it it for the cases from 1988 and later. If I have the time, I will do the rest. Best regards,Jeff5102 (talk) 08:36, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much! deisenbe (talk) 09:14, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

People whose statue is in the National Statuary Hall Collection category

Hello Deisenbe,

Is this category you created really a "defining" characteristic of the people in it? (Wikipedia:Defining). It seems reasonable to have a list article of everybody in the Statuary Hall, but that's more about the Hall and less about the person. I'm not sure if people say "Alexander Stephens, that guy with a statue" rather than "Alexander H. Stephens, vice president of the Confederacy and Governor of Georgia and racist jerk." I'm pretty sure that "categories by award" tend to get deleted unless the award is incredibly, incredibly famous and defining - e.g. the Nobel Prize, Fields Medal, etc. I don't think this honor rises to the occasion - I'm familiar with it due to having toured the Capitol, but I'm pretty sure that 99.8% of people have no idea about it or really care. SnowFire (talk) 17:35, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I’m particularly sensitive to this because Florida, where I live, has just changed its statue. These are not just individuals, they’re something like a prize each state gives out. The point is not that they’re in the Hall. The point is that these are the people each state has selected as their most admirable or noteworthy citizens. Furthermore, the changes - statues replacing other statues - are themselves evidence of changing attitudes. Getting rid of a Confederate hero and replacing him with an African-American woman? That’s pretty big. It’s like revoking a Nobel prize and giving it to somebody else. I think that this is indeed incredibily famous and defining - representing the state in the U.S. Capitol.

And besides, what harm is the category doing? deisenbe (talk) 18:30, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The harm is Wikipedia:Overcategorization, wherein sufficiently famous people have 100 categories where half of them are things like awards they were granted, organizations they belonged to in college, appearances on magazine lists, and so on which makes the entire category list unreadable. Basically, it's the wrong way around. Wikipedia has Category:Paintings depicting Adam and Eve; Wikipedia does not have Subjects of Michelangelo paintings. Or, for a better example, something like "People who are depicted in the Metropolitan Museum of Art."

The claim that this truly is an epochal honor, a defining characteristic is more compelling - but I'm not sure it's really true. Category:Burials at the Panthéon, Paris is something closer - the Pantheon is definitely a Who's Who of greats in French society. I'm less certain that the Capitol statues have that kind of cultural impact, though. The fact that there have been so many horrible people in this list - Confederates and the like as you point out - without great uproar seems to show that people just don't care that much. The Florida replacement will get a few news stories and then move on. I don't think getting your statue here is at the level of, say, Medal of Honor awardees.

That said, we can take this up at CFD if you want - I'll admit there's a case to be made, I just don't think it clears the bar. SnowFire (talk) 19:37, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One thing to keep in mind is that many of these people honored with a statue have not received any other type of prize at all. Look at Florida’s John Gorrie, Georgia’s Crawford Long, Kansas’s John James Ingalls, New Mrxico’s Dennis Chávez. It couldn’t be more different than “Paintings in the Museum of Modern Art”. With museums the focus is on the artist; the artist’s subjects are usually less important, or even unknown. With the NSHC it is the reverse: it is not an exhibit of scuptors’ art, it is an exhibition of honored citizens. The sculptor is less important, the person depicted is the most important aspect. deisenbe (talk) 21:36, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Should I finish putting the people in this category? As of now it’s an unfinished project. deisenbe (talk) 10:33, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@SnowFire: Could I have a reply please? deisenbe (talk) 20:16, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Deisenbe: Sorry about that! I was really busy, followed by forgetting this conversation was still ongoing.

Anyway, your comment is interesting, but I guess a side issue to my point. Hypothetical, silly example: if I was to collect paintings of people I think are awesome but not fuss too much about the artists, that's nice, but nobody cares about my personal collection, so it isn't very notable. The question is: how much do people / the general public really care about this kind of honor as it applies to the person themself (who is almost always long-dead by the time this posthumous honor is bestowed)? This Google Books search seems to only show Congessional resolutions and very little Books interest, although it's possible my search terms are wrong. Basically I see plenty of news stories in relation to the statues & the collection as a political statement (e.g. endorsing the various Confederate leaders who are there), but not so much the other way around: if you search for info about Robert E. Lee, something like [[1]] is pretty low in priority, and most of these memorials aren't worthy of categories to begin with. To put it in WP:CFD terms, it's WP:OCAWARD, "Categorization by winning an award".

Anyway, just to be clear, I could be wrong about this! If you're not convinced and think the category is worth saving, let's ask others at CFD - that way you don't waste your time working on a project if it gets deleted, and if it turns out others agree with you, I'll definitely lay off, because I agree that there is a case to be made that this award really is notable enough. SnowFire (talk) 22:18, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy deletion nomination of Make It Right Project

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A tag has been placed on Make It Right Project requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be an unambiguous copyright infringement. This page appears to be a direct copy from https://independentmediainstitute.org/make-it-right-project-announcement/. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images taken from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites or other printed material as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

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Dennis Bratland (talk) 16:15, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Deisenbe, Dennis Bratland, I've blanked the page and listed it at WP:copyright problems so that this can be looked into. I'm concerned that it comes so soon after Texas Confederate Museum was deleted as a copyvio. Deisenbe, can you throw any light on what is going on here? Is there some obvious explanation that others have missed? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:10, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've now looked at the second version of Texas Confederate Museum, and that too has substantial taking from this page, so I've blanked and listed that also. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:26, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]