Talk:Apple

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Dispute of china as top producer[edit]

The Chinese culture always exaggerate everything by a factor of 10. Its really 3,700,000. instead of 37,000,000. Even 3.7 million is hard to believe since you barely see apples sold in stores in china, unless you are counting asian pears, plums, or oranges as apples. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Applediscordia (talkcontribs) 07:00, 5 March 2014‎ (UTC)

Redirect to Apple Inc.[edit]

I am sure most people searching for apple on Wikipedia want to get to the Apple Inc. page. I think there should be a default redirect it. If administrators can compare a visitors count for both articles and decide over it, which article is more important, it will be convenient for the humanity to get to the Apple Inc.'s page in one take, just putting apple in a search box and hit 'Enter'. Editors like me will benefit too, due to a simplified linking.

Please read the discussion above as why there is no consensus for that case. The fruit has more historical significance and is a vital core topic. This helps safeguard that the the site remains encyclopaedic, and not rapidly changed as a result of news spikes, recent events, or the latest pop culture topics, which skews searches. Zzyzx11 (talk) 17:08, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
That discussion has been archived. And despite Apple Inc. getting all the attention in the news this day, Apple the fruit is a primary topic with respect to long term significance, even though Apple Inc. might be used significantly. It is for the same reason we do not want Apple to be a dab page just because of the company's influence on modern day culture. <<< SOME GADGET GEEK >>> (talk) 01:13, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Asia Minor; NOT "Turkey"[edit]

The article, under the History section, implies that Turkey existed in ancient times. Turks are not an indigenous people to the Mediterranean. The article should state that apples were first cultivated in East Anatolia or East Asia Minor, not in "East Turkey". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.242.121.108 (talk) 18:45, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 January 2015[edit]


The "Proverbs" section, introduced by user Hridith Sudev Nambiar on August 19th, 2014, contains several fallacies. Prior to that edit of the entry, the page simply contained the information that the phrase "an apple a day keeps the doctor away" originated in Wales in the 1800s, and implies nothing more than reference to the nutritional value of the commonly eaten apple.

Nambiar placed a new section at the end of the article entitled "Proverbs" which claims that Caroline Taggart coined the saying in her book "An Apple a Day". In fact, Taggart's book was first printed in 2011, and Taggart is a contemporary author who by no means coined (or claimed to coin) the term. Her entry in "An Apple a Day" contains none of the ensuing information quoted here about earlier versions, either. The book, its copyright information and even the article in question are all freely viewable by clicking the "Look Inside" button in the Amazon.com entry for her book, located at http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Day-Old-Fashioned-Proverbs---Timeless/dp/1606521918/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1420132830&sr=8-2&keywords=Caroline+Taggart.

After making several statements about original versions, again, not found in Taggart, he then quotes Michael Pollan's view on apples in frontier America as being solely a source of alcoholic beverages. The claim is made that the popular saying arose from a liquor advertising campaign in the 1900s, when growers of hard cider and apple wine pushed the slogan against the temperance movement. Pollan's famous assertion of this was done with no sources quoted, and Pollan himself admits on p. 9 of "The Botany of Desire" that his views on apples being grown solely for alcoholic value has no documentary evidence but was a logical deduction based on his understanding that apples grown from seeds are simply inedible, and cannot be used for any other purpose. This is not at all true, as entire consortiums of non-grafting apple growers exist in the United States alone. Countless documentary sources from past times, from Benjamin Franklin's entries on apples in the Farmer's Almanac to Renaissance paintings of apples on common tables to the published obituary of Johnny Appleseed himself contradict Pollan's view. In fact, Taggart, in the entry in her book on the "an apple a day" proverb, states that it is centuries old and refers to the eating of the common apple, that is has been a common saying in Britain (and, by extension, the British colony of America) for centuries, and was popular long before the early 1900s.

In conclusion, Nambiar's assertion that Taggart coined the term is easily proven false by even a glace at the book in question, first published in 2011, and his ensuing statements about American hard cider growers popularizing the term is a non-cited assertion by Pollan and contradicted by Taggart, Franklin, and countless other historical documents which come well before the time.

As all of the information in the "Proverbs" section is either simply inaccurate or comes from a non-cited assertion, I request that this recently-added section be deleted.Profludwig27 (talk) 18:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Profludwig27 (talk) 18:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Rejected @Profludwig27:Please see the instructions for semi-protected edit requests.  B E C K Y S A Y L E 23:39, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2015[edit]

Please remove the recently-added section entitled "Proverbs" at the bottom of the "Apple" page. See below semi-protected edit request on 1 January 2015 for explanation. Profludwig27 (talk) Note:request moved/edited for clarity by  B E C K Y S A Y L E 19:30, 3 January 2015 (UTC).

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. The edit could not be automatically undone due to conflicting intermediate edits; if you wish to have someone undo the change, it must be discussed on this talk page and a consensus reached. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 20:05, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Request re-submitted. The matter was put to discussion as requested. Over a month has passed, and no opposition to the proposed changes has arisen. A helpful editor fixed the errors in the first part of the Proverbs section, making those changes unnecessary, so the current edit request is to eliminate only these sentences:

"This was later developed in 1900s by American apple growers who produced hard cider and apple-cider based wines which sprang as an advertisement and grew into an American proverb. It originated in the 1900s as a marketing slogan by growers concerned that the temperance movement would cut into the sales of their hard cider, the principal market for apples at the time."

If elimination is not possible, then in order to reflect what is actually stated in the poster's source (Michael Pollan, Botany of Desire, p. 50), it should be changed to this:

"It was utilized in the early 1900s by American apple growers who formerly produced hard cider and cider-based wines to market the eating of apples when the temperance movement eliminated the consumer base for alcoholic beverages."

This would correct the fallacies that the term "originated" there and that it "grew into an American proverb" (as Taggart, Franklin and others state, it was already an American proverb at the time). It also removes several grammatical errors ("developed in 1900s," etc.). However, it seems relatively insignificant to mention such a brief and limited use of a centuries-old proverb with no other examples, and elimination of the sentences seems more appropriate. Please see discussion below for all details.Profludwig27 (talk) 18:12, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Note that you're now autoconfirmed, so you can edit the article yourself as well. Sunrise (talk) 00:37, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

"Proverbs" section inaccuracies: invitation to discussion[edit]

The "Proverbs" section, introduced by user Hridith Sudev Nambiar on August 19th, 2014, contains several fallacies. Prior to that edit of the entry, the page simply contained the information that the phrase "an apple a day keeps the doctor away" originated in Wales in the 1800s, and implies nothing more than reference to the nutritional value of the commonly eaten apple.

Nambiar placed a new section at the end of the article entitled "Proverbs" which claims that Caroline Taggart coined the saying in her book "An Apple a Day". In fact, Taggart's book was first printed in 2011, and Taggart is a contemporary author who by no means coined (or claimed to coin) the term. Her entry in "An Apple a Day" contains none of the ensuing information quoted here about earlier versions, either. The book, its copyright information and even the article in question are all freely viewable by clicking the "Look Inside" button in the Amazon.com entry for her book, located at http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Day-Old-Fashioned-Proverbs---Timeless/dp/1606521918/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1420132830&sr=8-2&keywords=Caroline+Taggart.

After making several statements about original versions, again, not found in Taggart, he then quotes Michael Pollan's view on apples in frontier America as being solely a source of alcoholic beverages. The claim is made that the popular saying arose from a liquor advertising campaign in the 1900s, when growers of hard cider and apple wine pushed the slogan against the temperance movement. In fact, Taggart, in the entry in her book on the "an apple a day" proverb, states that it is centuries old and refers to the eating of the common apple, that is has been a common saying in Britain (and, by extension, the British colony of America) for centuries, and was popular long before the early 1900s, now as then in Britain, which never dealt with the temperance movement at all, making its role in popularizing the phrase suspect.

Even more importantly, however, the author is misquoting Pollan in saying this. On p. 49 of "Botany of Desire" Pollan does not claim that the slogan was made to promote hard cider, but rather was used to promote common edible apples, as common knowledge affirms, following the advent of refrigeration in America. The slogan arose not to promote alcohol, but to save the apple industry by promoting eating apples, according to Pollan.

In conclusion, Nambiar's assertion that Taggart coined the term is easily proven false by even a glace at the book in question, first published in 2011, and his ensuing statements about American hard cider growers popularizing the term is a non-cited assertion and contradicted by Taggart, Franklin, and countless other historical documents which come well before the time.

As all of the information in the "Proverbs" section is either simply inaccurate or comes from a non-cited assertion, it seems reasonable for us to just delete this section.

Any support or dissenting opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Profludwig27 (talk) 00:20, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

I've fixed the gross error (coinage by Taggart). The temperance movement cutting into sales of cider in the 1900s seems to be decades too late. Agree with improve (pref using at least one more source) or delete.
Gravuritas (talk) 01:13, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for the quick fix, Gravuritas. After reviewing the Pollan quote in "Botany of Desire", I have also discovered that the author is badly misquoting Pollan. On the cited p. 49 of Pollan, far from alleging that the proverb arose to promote hard cider, Pollan asserts that the slogan was used to promote the commonly eaten apple, in response to the temperance movement's practical destruction of the hard cider industry, making the latter half of the "Proverbs" section even more worthy of either serious revision or deletion.

Profludwig27 (talk) 17:02, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Here's the actual Pollan paragraph that the poster is quoting (p. 50, Botany of Desire):

"A far more brutal winnowing of the apple's prodigious variability took place around the turn of the century. That's when the temperance movement drove cider underground and cut down the American cider orchard, that wildness preserve and riotous breeding ground of apple originality. Americans began to eat rather than drink their apples, thanks in part to a PR slogan: "An apple a day keeps the doctor away." Around the same time, refrigeration made possible a national market for apples, and the industry got together and decided it would be wise to simplify that market by planting and promoting only a small handful of brand-name varieties."

Nowhere in this does Pollan state that the term "originated" there, and Taggart and many others prove that it does not. So we could remove the "originated" word and a few other fallacies to reflect Pollan's statement, but then we run into an issue of whether such a tiny point about use of the slogan at one point in American history is important enough to be included in a general article on apples, and the even greater point that Pollan himself cites no sources for the information in the first place.Profludwig27 (talk) 17:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Almaty, Kazakhstan[edit]

The city of Almaty is thought to be named after the word "apple", and has a long tradition of being known as the "Father of Apples". It is also located at the "genetic center" of modern apples, basically where we think apples originated from.

Just a little bit of trivia I think should be included somewhere. 173.81.128.130 (talk) 21:02, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

editing request: apple blossom dates in England[edit]

In the Cultivation>Pollination section, the article lists implausibly late blossom times for England, ranging from May 1st to May 28. No reference is provided. Based in East Anglia, I have never observed such late blossom times for the listed varieties.

Instead, for Orleans Reinette we have observed (East Anglia):

  • 2009 April 20
  • 2010 April 27
  • 2011 April 11
  • 2012 none (Reinette is biennial)
  • 2013 May 7
  • 2014 April 19

And for Cox Orange Pippin we have observed (East Anglia):

  • 2009 April 15
  • 2010 April 26
  • 2011 April 10
  • 2012 April 24
  • 2013 May 4
  • 2014 April 6 (sic!)

These dates are noted when one third of blossoms are open. Full blossom can take a day or up to a week longer, depending on weather, and not normally in May. These are free-standing trees, with no sheltering wall within 15 metres. Can an editor please provide a reference for the claimed May blossoming times?

If not, can a user from another English location, ideally further north, please report their Cox and Reinette blossoming times here in the next month or two? For the year 2015 at least. Thus the truth will out in the next 60 days... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.170.122.230 (talk) 10:43, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Popularity of cultivers[edit]

I'm referring to the lines "Most North Americans and Europeans favor sweet, subacid apples................Indian subcontinent". This seems to be a blanket statement and the cited references do not support it. While 40 is a dead link, I found the possible article being referenced at http://casfs.ucsc.edu/documents/News-Notes/fall_06.pdf and it does not contain any information about the popularity of cultivars around the globe. Reference 41 is similarly devoid of relevant information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.20.11 (talk) 21:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2015[edit]

GODZZwarmachine (talk) 01:44, 25 March 2015 (UTC) apple X mark.svg Not done This is not a request to change anything. Joseph2302 (talk) 01:47, 25 March 2015 (UTC)