User talk:Badagnani/Archive 12

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AfD nomination of Jeff Rosenbaum

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An article that you have been involved in editing, Jeff Rosenbaum, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeff Rosenbaum (2nd nomination). Thank you. Since you thought the number of keeps in the first AfD were almost as many as the deletes, please compare the users who expressed a keep opinion in it to this list. Thanks. Cheers, Pigman 06:29, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Peer Review for Blackwater Worldwide, please help!

Blackwater Worldwide, an article under this WikiProject, is up for Peer Review to move to Featured Article status. Please help out and offer up reviews, advice, or edits to the article or review at:

Thanks! You weren't a previous part of the group that worked on this, but having seen your sourcing and research skills, I wanted to ask. Lawrence Cohen 14:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Nom Foundation confirmation

Exactly how are the characters confirmed by the Foundation? Did you contact one of their members for confirmation or did you use their online tool? As you are aware, each Vietnamese syllable can be represented by many Nom characters, depending on its meaning, pronunciation, and its creator's current mood, so it's kind of impossible to confirm the characters using the online tool. DHN (talk) 20:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Do they have plans to publish the document? Then we can cite it when providing the characters. As I stated before, I feel uneasy including the Chinese or pseudo-Chinese characters at the head of articles because it's going to cause a lot of misunderstanding. DHN (talk) 20:39, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Contemporary music

Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Contemporary music/Assessment for the details of how to rate the articles for inclusion in the table at the top of the page. John Carter (talk) 16:31, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Che article

Yes, it's a difference in Northen and Southern speaking ways. However, now it's dau, right? Ok, keep this! Mr Vinx (talk) 20:32, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


No, you think again, you're the one who stands on people's way. I told you already, people when reading Vietnamese historic articles often only care about the Vietnamese names. It's like that no care about the dirty Han tu. Also, if Han tu characters are everywhere in the articles, some readers will feel as if they're reading Chinese history article, not Vietnamese anymore. And the final answer is that we must must remove all ugly Chinese characters from Vietnamese articles. You (Badagnani) are not Vietnamese but why you care about this. Most Vietnamese right now hate the stupid Chinese. They're consider China is the stealer of land, cultures, history, and territory; especially when Chinese navy killed Vietnamese fishmen is the Gulf of Tonkin, and Chinese occupation of Vietnamese Spratly and Paracel Islands. JacquesNguyen (talk) 23:58, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

No, you're wrong. When studying Vietnamese history in classes, no one knew about it (including me). Students thought Vietnamese language already used quoc ngu since the very start, no teacher had taught students that Vietnamese language used the ugly Han tu first. I just suddenly discovered this by myself. No teachers taught, also the Vietnamese history books in classes didn't had any Chinese characters but Vietnamese. That means Vietnamese people did't care about Han tu or chu nom anymore. We must eliminate them all. JacquesNguyen (talk) 00:20, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


Arab people who lives in Israel are Israeli arab - not Palestinian. stop with that. Jusmine (talk) 18:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

There is no answer so I`ll change the categories. Jusmine (talk) 17:52, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


i saw you make comments on the culture of china template. i would greatly appreciate if you could support the existnece of it by helping me improve it. thank you. Black Knight takes White Queen (talk) 21:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Che article (continued)

I think it's both popular in Northern and Southern Vietnam. But we should keep it DAU because the other similar names in the article contain this word such as CHE DAU DO or something like that. Mr Vinx (talk) 13:20, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Willard Maas birtdate

i found mr. maas's BD on the Social Security Death Index, which can be accessed via Worc63 (talk) 04:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


Hi Badagnani, regarding this userbox discussion, if you need any further help I'd be happy to put that userbox onto your userpage for you. Just give me a shout. --Bruce1ee talk 07:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I've added it to your userpage. Is that what you wanted? --Bruce1ee talk 08:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


Information.svg With regard to your comments on Talk:Waterboarding/Definition: Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Consider this a formal warning. — BQZip01 — talk 09:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

So, you don't like templates? It is just a quick way to type. Perhaps you should read the following then:
Assuming you know all the policies & guidelines and do not desire any warnings, I will simply move further problems to administrators as appropriate. Agreed? — BQZip01 — talk 10:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


Yeah, you got it right. I didn't add the Arabic script because I wasn't sure of the name. A quick Google search shows yours was actually spot on. —Anas talk? 06:59, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm impressed, very impressed. And yes, you're right about the Lebanese not being able to pronounce the ق correctly. I know that because I've been around Lebanese people long enough to discover that. I'm surprised how you know a lot about Arabic; if I remember correctly, you're studying Arabic, no? —Anas talk? 07:36, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

University of Florida Taser Incident

Hi Badagnani, sorry I edited the University of Florida Taser incident page without noticing that the change had already been made and un-done. It makes sense to have a policy not to edit (even incorrect) quotes, but I think that the way it is now is still misleading. Having [sic] in the quote makes it seem that it was Steven Blank's error, but it was most likely the Alligator's. This confused me when I first read the article ("Why would the chairman of ACCENT capitalize ACCENT wrong?") Perhaps changing "later said" to "was later quoted as saying" would clear things up? -- (talk) 15:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter January 2008

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter January 2008
--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC (talk) 05:17, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Rainwater Madeira

Once upon a time you asked about Rainwater Madeira on Talk:Madeira wine. In case you're still curious, at long last, I just added the answer to Madeira wine#Types. Tomas e (talk) 22:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Small favor

Dear Bagdani, Now that the article for WinterStar Symposium has been deleted, I was wondering if you could create a redirect page for it to Association for Consciousness Exploration. I don't know how. If possible, could you also do it under the spelling Winterstar Symposium (without the capital "S" in WinterStar)? I would greatly appreciate it. If you like, you can also post an explanation on my talk page as to how it's done (or direct me to one). Even Kathryn had suggested a merge or redirect from this article and Jeff Rosenbaum, although she didn't actually include any info from either one in the ACE article when they were deleted. (I guess deleting them was all she really wanted to accomplish.)Rosencomet (talk) 21:09, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


According to an obscure legend, Ho Quy Ly (the founder of the Ho Dynasty) was able to marry a Tran Dynasty princess because he memorized a line he found during his youth. One day, he found the following line written on the sand at the beach:

Quảng Hàn cung lý Nhất Chi Mai.

He memorized it, and years later he became a mandarin. One day, while he was accompanying the king on a trip, the king had to take refuge from the sun in Thanh Thu palace. In front of Thanh Thu palace were some cinnamon trees. The king composed a parallel line:

Thanh Thử điện tiền thiên thụ quế (In front of Thanh Thu Palace there are thousands of cinnamon trees)

A parallel line poem (câu đối) consists of two lines of parallel structure and rhythm. In can take the format of a challenge/response where the challenger composes the first line and the responder would compose the second line to show how erudite/clever they are. Great responses even match the challenge not only in structure but in the shape of the characters. Now that Chinese characters are no longer used, câu đối had grown out of usage and historical examples had to be explained to the modern readers.

Ho Quy Ly remembered the line from his youth and responded with:

Quảng Hàn cung lý Nhất Chi Mai. (In Quang Han Palace there is Nhất Chi Mai [an ume plant])

It just so happens that in Quang Han Palace there are no ume plants, but there is a princess named Nhat Chi Mai. She's never been outside and nobody besides the royal family knows of her existence. Astonished that Ho Quy Ly would know about her and after being told the story of how the line came to him, the king decided that it was fate and married the princess to him. DHN (talk) 17:02, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

As I said, it's an obscure legend and I don't think it's worthy of being mentioned in the article. DHN (talk) 02:36, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Probably because of confusion of what exactly is "Nhất Chi Mai" (I have no idea). DHN (talk) 03:34, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


Hi Badagnani, try Google Transliteration. It almost always gets it right. deeptrivia (talk) 06:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Re comment

Sorry, it was an accident due to an edit conflict. It's already been reverted. Just an error. WaltonOne 20:09, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


I kind of like harvard classes helping out with mediation :-) , so I've left a (perhaps slightly strongly worded) answer to you on Talk:Waterboarding.

You are likely acting in good faith. If so, are you aware that there is no actual rule on transparency for wikipedia?

--Kim Bruning (talk) 04:55, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Waterboarding

Please see the above link as I have requested arbitration for a dispute that you are involved in. Feel free to contribute there. Regards, henriktalk 11:42, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Re:Terms for Chinese

Tàu literally means "boat" and "người Tàu" is literally "boat people". Early Hoa immigrants to Vietnam were literally boat people fleeing the Qing Dynasty. It is commonly used to refer to all things Chinese: mực Tàu, táo Tàu, phố Tàu, etc. It can be seen as derogatory, especially among more PC-minded people, but it's sort of like "negro" in modern American English: not meant to be offensive, just old-fashioned. Recently, due to increased anti-Chinese sentiments in Vietnam, more offensive words have been devised to refer to the Chinese among young people.

Both the apple and jujube can be referred to as "táo". The apple is called "táo Tây" (Western táo) or bôm. The jujube is called "táo Tàu". DHN (talk) 23:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

C Noodles

It's all good ;) Now I'm done Sjschen (talk) 03:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The canonical laksa noodle should always be rice. However the dish laksa can be made with either rice or wheat noodles. Maybe that's it? As for the wine bottles, I haven't visited an Asian grocery store in a while. Sjschen (talk) 03:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Sure, add it. Sjschen (talk) 03:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm completely unfamiliar with any of these noodles but I think they may be just wheat noodles modified with additional flavourings? Only the ingredients can tell you about how the noodles are made. Sjschen (talk) 04:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

No idea at all about saifun :P Sjschen (talk) 04:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not certain about what they are, but I'm tempted to say that they are probably a marketing scheme to sell slightly different recipes of wheat flour noodles. If you only find it produced by one company then this is probably the case. As for the production methods, I will add the Chinese tomorrow or sometime after. Gotta run! Sjschen (talk) 04:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

KSS 1,000 troops

I saw that, but since I really didn't know the facts, I figured you or Tvoz would pick it up. Have a good night! --Knulclunk (talk) 04:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Julian B

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Your incivility

I kindly request you to stop (or at least temper) your recent incivility regarding your imputation of my "pushing an agenda" and harboring sympathies as either a Scottish or Armenian person, specifically at Talk:Alan Hovhaness and other articles, referring to the reversion of the blanking of properly sourced text as vandalism, and this edit summary. This was uncalled for, as were your summary reversions and very rude/judgemental edit summaries--and also including your apparent wiki-stalking to Julian B. Please don't edit in this manner; we are a community and need to always edit in a thoughtful manner. Best, Badagnani (talk) 20:41, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Badagnani, ok, I will try to temper. I have NO problem with ethnicity in bios. I DO have a problem if ethnicity is placed into the LEAD sentence unless there is a really, really, really, really good reason. Just having it mentioned for its own sake is not appropriate. Also, this is not personal since I usually edit "across the board" in regards to mosbio. I just went through ALL the armenian-americans in regards to ethnicity in the LEAD sentence only. Anyways, --Tom 21:20, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
It would really help if instead of deleting it you moved it. Otherwise it looks like you're on a agenda, which you clearly are not. VartanM (talk) 22:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


Hi again! I've made another attempt at the intro to baijiu, which had still bothered me with its inclusion of npov language ("potent", "dangerous" etc.) and its self-repetition. What do you think? --Shannonr (talk) 13:40, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I take your point with regards to the comparison with other white spirits -- and I think it's an excellent point. I guess I don't see that "potent" is a neutral word -- with all its implications -- and I think a statement like "x is potent" would need to be referenced. What about the change I just made, listing the usual ABV of the other spirits that Baijiu is compared to -- leaving the reader to draw their own conclusion about "potentcy"? --Shannonr (talk) 10:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Armenia

Perhaps in the future you can find assistance at the Wikipedia:WikiProject Armenia. Hyacinth (talk) 00:35, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Edits to Mobile phone health

Can you please stop making unsubstantiated attacks on me. I have asked you to back up your claims and you haven't. If you continue I will ask an administrator to look into your behaviour. Please assume good faith. I haven't had a campaign of blanking, but of improving the article, and I have always entered into dialogue to make suggestions or justify changes people have felt unhappy with. Please stop this uncivil and upsetting behaviour -- (talk) 10:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

In order to avoid further confusion, the above is not a threat. I am asking you to stop making derogatory remarks about me that are unsubstantiated and untrue. Please assume good faith and do not continue in this vain -- (talk) 11:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Waterboarding

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Waterboarding/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Waterboarding/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Anthøny 16:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Kirtanananda Swami

Hi Badagnani, Maybe I can ask you a favor.

I've spent a good deal of time working on Kirtanananda Swami and I believe the article is up to Wikipedia standards. How do I get rid of:

(1) the [unreliable source?] tag under "Trials and tribulations,"

(2) the two links at the bottom of the page: "All pages needing cleanup" and "Articles with unsourced statements since December 2007?"


Henrydoktorski (talk) 00:05, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Re:Muối mè

I've never heard of the term before, but if I had to guess, I think it would mean "sesame salt". "Mè" is the Southern term for sesame. DHN (talk) 00:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

John Surman

I thought it better to reply here! I must admit I've never heard of him before - but free jazz is not one of my strengths. I will look out for him though - do you know the title of the Cornwall album? DuncanHill (talk) 06:39, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - I shall! DuncanHill (talk) 06:48, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Re:Nhà thờ Đức Bà

The article title is the literal meaning. DHN (talk) 06:55, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

"Nhà thờ" = church ("worship house"), "Đức Bà" = revered lady, the Vietnamese translation of "Notre Dame". Its official name is "Vương cung Thánh đường Chánh tòa Đức Bà Sài Gòn", which is "Saigon Notre Dame Basilica". DHN (talk) 07:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
I didn't think it was significant enough to warrant a mention. The article is about the church, not about how foreign terms are translated in Vietnamese. DHN (talk) 07:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Bob's Red Mill

Hi Badagnani

I'm not sure how to best work with you to edit the Bob's Red Mill article. Try as I might, I'm having trouble grasping the whole wikipedia world. I use it all of the time, but haven't ever tried to add stuff. The content of the article is fine, but I'd like to update the logo. Please advise.

Bobsredmill (talk) 23:35, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Re:Alexander Kaloian

To be honest with you, its the first time I'm hearing about him. He has written three Armenian marches, so I guess that qualifies him. I'll add it, you can remove it if you deem it unnecessary. VartanM (talk) 00:13, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks like, he was born in Armenia, but now lives in the US. VartanM (talk) 00:20, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
This one[1]VartanM (talk) 01:34, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Re:Rượu trắng

The article is about an "alcoholic beverage distiled from cereal grains, produced manually, popularly used in Vietnamese cuisine". According to the article and discussion, it supposedly has many different names, with "rượu đế" being the Southern name and "rượu quốc lủi" being the Northern name. According to the discussion, "rượu trắng" is understood by both the North and the South and wins the Google test. I doubt its chemistry is much different from other alcoholic beverages produced in other parts of the world. DHN (talk) 02:32, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it means "white liquor", but I'm wary of deriving the meaning by decomposing individual syllables for analytic languages. DHN (talk) 02:35, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
rượu=liquor; quốc=nation, state; lủi=to slip away. There are several theories of its origins:
  1. It's a corruption of "rượu cuốc lủi", cuốc (a type of bird) and quốc are homonyms. This term came about because those who produce and sell it have to do it in fear of prosecution, selling and then slipping away, like the behavior of the cuốc
  2. It's a parody of the term nationale spirit - "rượu quốc hồn quốc túy". Because the "national spirit" has to be produced surreptitiously, it's called "rượu quốc lủi".
  3. It's created to distinguish from "rượu quốc doanh" - state-enterprise alcohol. The government in northern Vietnam under communism had a monopoly on liquor production, so this alcohol is moonshine - again we see the secrecy theme. DHN (talk) 02:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

No, Vietnamese has no pun on the word spirit. It's a parody because the foreign term can be translated both ways, and some people use the "liquor" meaning. DHN (talk) 03:10, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

My guess is that they're lumped together because of their illegality. I'm no expert on this matter. I'll ask at that article's talk page and get back to you. DHN (talk) 03:25, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


I guess it'd be called "nồi đất" ("earthen pot"), but it's not necessarily used for kho. DHN (talk) 03:35, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Typically, a "tô" (bowl) is used for storing food just before they're served, not for cooking. The online Vietnamese dictionary indicates that it's a regional term. DHN (talk) 03:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
They sound like plausible names. They indicate the pot's function - to kho fish, meat, etc. DHN (talk) 04:52, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


Hi there. You might as well assess them as you tag them....saves labour...Also, we probably have to work out whether Vietnamese descent people are in the project scope. My feeling is that if the person does Vietnamese-type stuff, like singing on Paris by Night or is an anti-communist activist then yes. I'm not so convinced about the likes of US born or people who left VN when they were children and became famous in the US for playing poker, etc. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Surely you are self-confident enough to tag articles less than 1k as a stub. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:12, 16 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by YellowAssessmentMonkey (talkcontribs)
Oh yeah, use {{WPVN|class=stub}} for a stub class article, use {{WPVN|class=GA}} for a GA-class article, use{{WPVN|class=A}} for an A-class article {{WPVN|class=FA}}, etc, etc, {{WPVN|class=start}} {{WPVN|class=B}} for a Start or a B-class article.. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:27, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject_Vietnam/Assessment#Quality_scale is the generic scale and examples to have a look at, for example. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:40, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


I didn't remember at first that tsuyu was ateji for 梅雨, but it's back now (and was, in fact, back before you messaged). Jpatokal (talk) 02:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Guqin FAR

Guqin has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.--SeizureDog (talk) 20:39, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Chinese black mushroom

You said the mushroom is widely known as shiitake in English speaking world but I don't think so. You tend to believe that your experience is representative for the whole English speaking world. You're not an English nor Australian. As far as I've known, it is more commonly sold with the Chinese black mushroom or just black mushroom in markets except Japanese or wholefood market chain which sells a lot of Japanese food products.--Appletrees (talk) 01:41, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I had lived in the both countries for years. Not wishful thinking as you imagine. --Appletrees (talk) 01:51, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Your example of tofu is not comparable with the mushroom. You're keen to Japanese language but ordinary American and English don't know about the term as you allege. --Appletrees (talk) 01:54, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, still your wording doesn't sound plausible to me at all per the ume and other similar articles. --Appletrees (talk) 01:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I didn't always go to Asian market for grocery shopping. Generally I bought it from Supermarkets. The pack of the mushroom is labeled as the black mushroom not as the Japanese name.--Appletrees (talk) 02:03, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I never insist on using Korean name for article titles here. I feel so funny about almost every articles in English Wiki related to Japanese things being named with Japanese name and examples like sakura. The term has never replaced with cherry blossom. For the Seattle and Washington D.c Cherry Blossom Fesitivals, sakura is not used but the article is titled with the Japanese name. To prevent tainting the pure symbol of Japan, some ultra Japanese nationalist erased Korean contents. As for the ume, my friends certainly don't know about the ume and umeboshi except Japanophile and anime otaku. They simply call it as Asian or Chinese or Japanese plum. I think you're not an ordinary American.--Appletrees (talk) 02:12, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
You live in the western part of the states but I lived the mid and eastern region. I think systems vary on regions. And North America is all of English speaking world? I don't thinks so.--Appletrees (talk) 02:17, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
You said you live in Oregon state which is close to Washington state. --Appletrees (talk) 02:25, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, in my eye, you're "insisting" to use Japanese term when it comes to article related to Japan. I don't think bonsai and tofu are comparable with shiitake. --Appletrees (talk) 02:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Then, we can use the species name instead of ume. They call the fruit as Chinese plum. I feel bored with this conversation like a ping-pong game. --Appletrees (talk) 02:35, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

No, you look more like an Asian enthusiastic fan (geek). Daikon is widely known as it is in North America? I don't buy it. It is simply called Chinese or Japanese radish but not daikon.--Appletrees (talk) 02:30, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

How could I go to the place? I left there for good. One of grocery stores I frequently went to is Jewel. --Appletrees (talk) 02:42, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm.. I don't want to reveal anything about myself and the grocery chain is a national wide company. --Appletrees (talk) 02:53, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


Sorry if I formatted my comments such that they affected yours. Is it fixed? If not, please let me know. Edison (talk) 02:55, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

When I've inadvertently put words in someone's mouth, the instinct is to yank 'em right back out and put them where they belong. Edison (talk) 03:01, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: Gầy là thầy cơm

I've never heard of the phrase, and googling it yields fewer than 100 results. It also sounds cacophonous to my ears. I suspect that it's a less commonly-used variant of a more popular phrase. DHN (talk) 05:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

That's the gist of what I think it means. DHN (talk) 05:36, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


It appears you aren't aware of political situations going on between the two factions. I blanked the section to improve NPOV. There is no reason to go into details of arrests when this is likely a way of waging internal politics through a neutral site such as Wikipedia. --—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) -Clearly you read my comments. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:59, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Your misunderstanding of the situation is exactly why I'm not sure you're qualified to undo the change, because you don't understand exactly why the blanking was warranted. The inclusion of cites is fine; however, this is something being waged in the press, and does not truly contribute to the neutral POV of the tribe in general. I'm not sure why you're any more qualified to undo the change than I am to modify it to omit internal bickering. Kermitmorningstar (talk) 06:07, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Xinh Mun people

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A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Xinh Mun people, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add {{db-author}} to the top of Xinh Mun people.   — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 07:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


I opened up a discussion section for our dispute - Talk:Doghmush#Place_of_settlement.. JaakobouChalk Talk 12:54, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


Did you even read my edits. Some of your reverts aren't even to things where I removed the template. See Talk:Nhu Quynh for example. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 05:49, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

There were no "discussion" postings generating consensus for such blanking of tags. If there were a tag for "Vietnamese-born people who don't make films about Vietnam," or "People who are Vietnamese but don't live in Vietnam," we could substitute that tag. But we don't. So for now we use "WPVN" to attract editors to improve articles about people who are Vietnamese (but who may live in other countries), which is highly appropriate for a project about Vietnamese culture. The purpose of the tag is to attract editors interested in Vietnam-related subjects--and all those articles were certainly related to Vietnamese people (or, in one case, a very prominent manufacturer of Vietnamese-style chili sauce used by millions of Vietnamese in North America). Badagnani (talk) 05:54, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
In some of your reverts, you undid my assessing since you just assumed that I blanked the articles. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

"This WikiProject covers the creation and editing of articles related to the nation of Vietnam, its political subdivisions, geography, transportation, culture, history, people"

Yes I do believe I am following the logical way that this country project is worded and the custom used for all Wikiprojects. In the case of "its culture" I did keep Vietnamese language singers, non Vietnamese citizens who partake in Vietnamese cultural activity. The countrywide projects do not include people simply due to ethnic descent living in other countries, and other projects do not do your interpretation. Jews are not blanket covered in WP:ISRAEL or African Americans as part of some WP:AFRICA or anything. Nor is poker "Vietnamese culture". Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

You apparently have a bot doing this, so if I made a mistake (which I regret very much, if I did so), it was simply because it was very taxing to restore the tags blanked from so many articles in one fell swoop (with no consensus having been developed at the individual article talk pages, or at the WPVN project, for which I have worked very, very hard). Badagnani (talk) 06:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Most of the individuals from whose article talk pages the tags were blanked were born in Vietnam, and the hot sauce article is by no stretch of the imagination not a Vietnam-related subject. I would add a WPITALY tag to Americans born in Italy or self-identifying Italian Americans, as I would add WPAFRICA for Americans born in Africa (Nigeria, Ghana, etc.). Again, the reason for the tags is to allow for systematic improvement of articles related to this nation, culture, and people; as there is no WikiProject for "Vietnamese who were born there but now live somewhere else, and have a job that isn't stereotypically Vietnamese," a tag for WPVN is quite appropriate and useful for editors interested in easily locating and improving all articles related to Vietnam, its culture and people. It further serves as a tool allowing editors to locate such articles; whether you like it or not, many Vietnamese have achieved renown for card playing (whether you consider this to be a stereotypically Vietnamese occupation or not), and the hot sauce is known not just in the U.S. but in other parts of the world as well--it has also, in fact, become an emblem of Vietnamese culture for many Americans who may know little else about Vietnamese cuisine (as it may be found on the tables of restaurants that don't even serve any type of Asian food). Removing the WPVN tag from such an article, in this light, is really quite illogical and doesn't enhance our mission well, or at all. Badagnani (talk) 08:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

External links

Badagnani, another editor has "slightly" sided with including the blog interview into the 3 articles we were/are edit warring. As he/she pointed out, this is not consensus, but I will not revert those again, but will defer to others and reserve the right to change my mind as always :). --Tom 22:27, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


No idea. -- ran (talk) 03:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Gabriela Lena Frank


I was going to post this in the article's talk, but since you're pretty much singlehandedly maintaining it (bravo for commitment!) I thought talking to you directly might be more efficient.

The article, as it stands, doesn't satisfy WP:Music. Publication by a house like Schirmer, while impressive, satisfies none of the criteria for composers and lyricists. While a few spotlights and/or reviews in credible periodicals like the New York Times might help fulfill criterion 1 for musicians and ensembles, nothing like that was mentioned in the article, and would need to be sourced if it was added. I'm going to re-add the notability tag - feel free to remove it when you feel it satisfies notability requirements. Cheers! SingCal (talk) 06:03, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand you.

You just rebutted me how the seaweed can be the gim because the original description on the picture just mentioned "seaweed". But you insist on adding your question which doesn't give any information about the food but a doubt. I let you know how the photographer says about the food. Bokbunja, which I've hardly heard of except usages for liquor is not written on the photo page. Why are you showing contradictory behaviors?

I, of course don't inhabit in your brain or mind (what an insulting comment you gave me two days ago), so I don't understand you at all. --Appletrees (talk) 20:51, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

You don't understand me so do I. In the gim article, I induced the species from the shape of the seaweed in the old picture and from my knowledge. I still don't agree with your usage of the hidden comment. You seem offended as I remove, but I also feel the same thing as you add it after I make a change on articles. And mountain berries generally are called just "산딸기" (literally mountain berry) and Koreans don't be keen to exact species like you or any other people in the west. We learn history and all of history incidents are not clearly written in documents. Some scholars and people trace back from existing remains. Besides, I also found that you added questionable hidden comment in Tangpyeongchae. You asked "what vinegar" is used for the dish, but you don't read the citation attached to the article. The reference doesn't specify the kind of vinegar. I don't understand you at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Appletrees (talkcontribs) 23:02, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I heard your insistence on the species of the seaweed in the picture and felt tired of discussing with you on the matter. That's why I retracted the picture from the article. But your behaviors shows contradictions on the two articles. I have eaten a lot of hotteok, but the variant is very new and seems only available near a mountain per the photographer's pictures. You keep falsely accusing me of blanking your "valid" comment which was never happened. Please use talk page, and I don't agree with the annoying hidden comment. --Appletrees (talk) 23:28, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

It is not proper to call other editor's edit as simply "blanking". --Appletrees (talk) 23:36, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I wrote the proper reason to remove your hidden comment. Please don't extend "you" to "we". --Appletrees (talk) 23:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't any intention to find the species used in the special hotteok after failing to find the name by googling in Korean. --Appletrees (talk) 23:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

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AfD nomination of Xenakis Ensemble

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About the 'unexplained removal': very simply, there's no citation of self-identification, which is one of the requirements at WP:BLP for categorisation. Also, Bakasuprman knows this, and pointed me in the direction of conflicts he's had with a retired account; which is how I know that he has a tendency to ignore it. I'd appreciate you reverting yourself. Relata refero (talk) 19:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Joshua Tree Links on the anthropological ethnic articles

My proposed solution is to kill the links, but keep the reference in black as an external reference. I agree that their website has spammy intentions, but their data is more detailed and accurate than any other available data out there. I think we should keep the links as black references (not hyperlinks), as to justify including their data (without plaguerism), but not provide a direct link to their spammy website.Kevin Borland, Esq. (talk) 07:38, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Districts of Vietnam

Hi there Badagnani. If you're going through them, could you please add {{WPVN|class=stub}} for me? Since they are all stubs. On the other hand, you could just take a break because a bot will do it all anyway when I make an appointment. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't mean that I was running a bot. I meant SatyrBot (talk · contribs) would add {{WPVN}} if you don't want to, but if you want to tag them, I was asking you to put the extra stub lable {{WPVN|class=stub}} so that it wouldn't have to be reassessed. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I'll do the next batch with the space after "Vietnamese" - I'm not actually doing a bot on this either. I'm cutting and pasting in a processor and cut and pasting back into WP. Save you some spacing. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

While you're at it, could you add the interwiki links to the vi article for them as well? DHN (talk) 20:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: 貢丸

It'd be better removing incorrect information as soon as possible. I always take lots of research studies before writing an article, even it is a stub article. I'm not a full-time wikipedian and cannot do this at this moment. If you are interested in it, please go ahead and write one. — HenryLi (Talk) 04:12, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey. The original writer has not posted any source about 牛丸 = 貢丸 either. It is unsourced, unreliable piece of information anyway. It is pork, not beef. I wonder you have plenty to blame other but not to start an article or do some research either. I am working in office now and will not answer you for some period of time. I'm sorry about it. — HenryLi (Talk) 04:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Five pillar. "Be Bold." (I have leave comment as Wikipedia guideline.) — HenryLi (Talk) 04:32, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Loon Lake in New Hampshire

Hello there! Remember our discussion almost a year ago about a place called Loon Lake in New Hampshire that Alan Hovhaness may have visited? (See User talk:Ken Gallager/Archive 2#Loon Lake.) I just ran across a lake near Newport, NH, that may be the one you're looking for. The Geographic Names Information System calls it "The Overflow", which is why I didn't find it before, but there's a "Loon Lake Campground" on its shores. Technically, it's in the town of Croydon, New Hampshire, but its mailing address is Newport. I don't know anything else about the campground, and it doesn't have its own website, but you can Google "Loon Lake Campground" with "New Hampshire" to find it in some directories. Let me know if that helps! --Ken Gallager (talk) 16:20, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Vietnamese minority in Thailand

On 13 January 2008, on's talk page you asked for information about the Vietnamese minority in Thailand. The US Country Study for Thailand addresses the issue here. For more detail, I suggest: Poole, Peter A. (December 1967) "Thailand's Vietnamese Minority" Asian Survey 7(12): pp. 886-895; and Poole, Peter A. (April 1974) "The Vietnamese in Cambodia and Thailand: Their Role in Interstate Relations" Asian Survey 14(4): pp. 325-337, both available through JSTOR. Also see, Poole, Peter A. (1976) "The Vietnamese in Thailand: Their Continuing Role in Thai-Vietnamese Relationships," South-East Asian Spectrum 4(2): pp.40-43, and Flood, E. Thadeus (1977) "The Vietnamese Refugees in Thailand: Minority Manipulation in Counterinsurgency" Bulletin of Concerned Asian Scholars 9(3): pp.31-47. Quite interesting are the two books: Goscha, Christopher E. (1999) Thailand and the Southeast Asian Networks of the Vietnamese Revolution, 1885-1954 Curzon Press, Richmond, Surrey, England, ISBN 0-7007-0622-4; and Poole, Peter A. (1970) The Vietnamese in Thailand: a historical perspective Cornell University Press, Ithaca, NY, ISBN 0-8014-0571-8. On a related issue you might look at: Forbes, Andrew D. W. (1982) "Thailand's Muslim Minorities: Assimilation, Secession or Coexistence" Asian Survey 22(11): pp.1056-73. Unfortunately, current data about the population of Vietnamese in Thailand is lacking. A recent news story, "Vietnamese in Thailand receive education insignia" indicates that there may be 4,000+ Vietnamese in Nakhon Phnom[sic] province. I hope this helps. --Bejnar (talk) 17:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Re adding them to Ethnic groups in Thailand, adding would be fine, but I wouldn't attempt the separate article that they deserve, at least right now, lacking much current info. My guess is that they are now over 100,000 again, despite the repatriations. One could of course import the US Country Study for Thailand text, since it is not copyrighted; however, I don't find it particularly well written. --Bejnar (talk) 22:27, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

waterboarding sources

Hi Badagnani, are you referring to Talk:Waterboarding/Definition? I don't see that page as being any more convenient than anywhere else, and the main talk page is better organized than the RfC page. Probably what we should do is decide where the sources should be listed, make sure everything's at that location, and delete the list from other pages. There's redundancy right now, and I think it's making things confusing. --Akhilleus (talk) 02:42, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

RE: Husker Du

I can assure you that's how it's spelled in the source. WesleyDodds (talk) 07:49, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Victor A. Marcial-Vega

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Inappropriate commentary

I'd suggest that you find a way to make an AfD argument without resorting to personal attacks and rampant assumptions of bad faith. That approach just points up the utter lack of compelling policy-based arguments. As to my ideas and "worldview", I would respectfully submit that you know nothing about them and what you've assumed appears to be incorrect. MastCell Talk 23:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Re: Question

No I'm not a native. Whats the character? Dforest (talk) 07:40, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm. I'm not sure about that. Dforest (talk) 07:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks like it might be . What is the context? Dforest (talk) 07:53, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah it's just a guess; I don't have access to a good character dictionary now. A Google search shows '維' is a given name. Dforest (talk) 08:06, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

No problem. Hopefully the instrument is better made than its inscription. :) Dforest (talk) 08:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

February 2008

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Julian B

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It's . -- ran (talk) 15:37, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

A lot of Simplified characters are based on older informal forms. -- ran (talk) 16:01, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Sichuan mala

I would prefer to use 'chòu dòufu' as, in my experience, that is how English speakers tend to refer to it in mainland China. And by barbecue, I am referring to 烧烤 shāokăo, or streetside barbecue, which can be meat, vegetables, doufu, mantou, rice cakes, etc. In the takeaway type of shaokao stand, it is put on sticks, similar to Japanese kushiyaki, but generally there is a much wider variety of meats (including various offal), and vegetables. I notice Chinese barbecue now redirects to Siu mei. I'm considering whether to start a Shaokao article, as its streetside form is considerably different from Siu mei, or if we should combine Siu mei and Shao kao into a article for Chinese barbecue. Dforest (talk) 03:43, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

E De people

Hello! I noticed you have been a consistent contributor to this article so I want to let you know that I have suggested a move to Rhade (people) (you can see my reasoning on the talk page) and get your thoughts on the topic. "E De" is the Vietnamese term used to refer to these people and only used in Vietnamese. Most English language sources (really all that I have/found) as well as countries where they live (other than Vietnam) use "Rhade".--William Thweatt Talk | Contribs 17:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

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เหล้าขาวและยาดอง ใครใคร่ปองต้องทุกข์เหลือ

Hi! I'm back to Wikipedia right now, but periodically. Since I've to prepare for exam. I think it would be better if I found new books about Thai music and culture. This is one of them:

  • สมพงษ์ กาญจนผลิน. ดนตรีไทย โน้ตและวิธีฝึก. กรุงเทพฯ:ต้นอ้อ แกรมมี่, 2536 (This book is about Thai musical instruments and how to perform it, but I cannot find it in my school library.)

Tangmo (talk) 12:33, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

P.S. I've added Thai script for lao khao and yadong: เหล้าขาว และ ยาดอง respectively. ("และ" is Thai conjunction equivalent to "and")

Tuva Workgroup

As a past contributor to a Tuva-related article, I was wondering if you would be interested in forming a Tuva workgroup of Wikipedia:WikiProject Central Asia with me? If enough people show interest, I'll go ahead and create the workgroup. --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 18:35, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Great! Right now I just have a sandbox page at User:Sborsody/Tuva_task_force. --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 19:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Carnatic word came from outsiders

Dear Badagnani: Some make up 'Carnatic' means 'Pleasing to ear'. Others fabricate as 'Ancient music'. Some go to the extent of calling it Vedic music. Now we hear it as ‘homeland’ by specific group. However there is no evidence that the original name for South Indian Classical music, ‘Karnataka Music’ was formally given a parallel name ‘Carnatic Music’ by any learned music scholar. Historical evidences show that 'Carnatic' is a name given to certain provision in South by an outside invader to India(~17th century) while other outside occupiers anglicized.For political reasons some are illogically replacing ‘Karnataka Music’ by ‘Carnatic Music’ since Mysore State was renamed as Karnataka State in 1970s, about 500 years after ‘Karnataka Music was founded by Sri Purandara Daasa using Kannada language. Also in native Kannada Language it is written as 'Karnataka Sangeeta' in other South Indian native languages it is written as 'Karnataka Sangeetam' but none of the South Indian languages has provision to write 'Carnatic Sangeeta or Samgeetam'. Therefore 'Carnatic' is a word came from outsiders. Please withdraw or correct your comment in 'discussion' of Carnatic Music article Naadapriya (talk) 09:35, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Badagnani, angry as naadapriya may seem, he/she is not way off the mark either. The above description is a fairly accurate description of the situation, but it just has to be cited. I think I can help with that. In the meanwhile, I've made a request on the Carnatic music talk page calling for some calming down and collaboration. Please feel free to pitch in. Thanks. Sarvagnya 18:45, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello Badagnani. Thanks for clarification about your comment posted on my talk page. I understand your concern about the use of a word 'Carnatic'. I am carefully listening to Sarvagnya's recent comments. I agree all should be ready for some compromise but never at the cost of hard facts. Again I need to iterate that the issue in so called 'Carnatic Music article' is not about language but it is about embedded distortion of truth using abstract, evading and deceptive means. Justice is not done to Wikipedia users by ad-hoc blocking 'Carnatic Music' from the legitimate edits from editors. As an accompanying musicians I play with great respect for all South Indian languagesNaadapriya (talk) 09:15, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


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Vietnamese provinces

Please do not add Chinese names into some provinces in Vietnam as they're only mere transliteration from Vietnamese/Khmer/Cham/ Highland tribes language names and do not bear any meaning at all. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

In either way, those are historical uses and by no means should be included. Japanese was the official language of korea and taiwan in the past and many of its cities were documented by Japanese names but should not be included. In the other hand, the existing Chinese articles could provide more than enough Chinese names of these places. Please consider, thank you!

I think you're going to face resistance like this unless you put the Chinese characters in a separate "etymology" section instead of in the lead. DHN (talk) 18:09, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


Well erm...... I don't really know anything about cooking, and I can only provide linguistic help.

Sorry... -- ran (talk) 06:49, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Final answer

Then my final request is please don't add Han tu in Vietnamese historical articles if you said you respected cultures. The Vietnamese had their own cultures, not all of their cultures came from China. You could find a book name Eden in the East and find out the truth. JacquesNguyen (talk) 00:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Re: Korean Pear

I don't know much about it, I received it as a gift from a man that I tutored English. I lived in Pohang at the time and he lived and commuted weekly from somewhere on the southeast side of Seoul(I think). Beyond that, I don't know anything about it. I hope you can figure out your pear mystery. Phasmatisnox (talk) 07:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:JulianaHatfieldDoNotDisturb.jpg

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Daisies and chrysanthemums

Thanks. That was quick!

Actually, I would only dare do that after checking a dictionary (which I did, the online dictionary at [2]). The reason is that there is a tendency for Chinese names to be applied to different plants/animals in Vietnam. The use of mai for a different plant in South Vietnam is one example. There are other examples that I've found in the naming of birds (at my own site on bird names in East and Southeast Asia So derivation from 菊 is no guarantee that it refers to the same flower!

Actually, I believe that the daisy and the chrysanthemum both belong to the same family of plants, and from memory I'm sure I've seen 菊 translated as 'daisy' somewhere (long time ago -- could have been Japanese-English dictionaries).

Bathrobe (talk) 01:51, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I notice you've put a hidden comment at the "four elite plants" that "pine" should be "orchid". According to a Google of Chinese-language sites, I found that:
The 三友图 in painting should contain “松、竹、梅”.
The 四君子画 should contain “梅兰竹菊”.
So "orchid" would seem to be right, at least from the Chinese point of view.
Bathrobe (talk) 02:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Could be a simple mixup between the "Three Friends" and the "Four Gentlemen"! It is kind of confusing.... The "Three Friends" are very common (Shōchikubai is well known in Japanese and is even used to name a brand of sake!). I'd never heard of the "Four Gentlemen" until recently.
Bathrobe (talk) 02:54, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Ok, but give me a little time!
02:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Numbered list

Hello Badagnani. How are you? I noticed that you have created many articles. Why don't you create a numbered list? It will help other users to know how many articles you have created. Keep up the good work! Regards, Masterpiece2000 (talk) 09:35, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your note. Regards, Masterpiece2000 (talk) 06:55, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Waterboarding

This Arbitration case has closed, and the final decision may be reviewed through the above link. Further to the relevant findings of fact, Waterboarding and all closely-related pages are subject to article probation (full remedy); editors working on Waterboarding, or closely related pages, may be subject to an editing restriction at the discretion of any uninvolved administrator, whereby any edits by that editor which are judged by an administrator to be uncivil, personal attacks, or assumptions of bad faith, may result in a block. (full remedy).

Should any user subject to an editing restriction in this case violate that restriction, that user may be briefly blocked, up to a week in the event of repeated violations. After 5 blocks, the maximum block length shall increase to one year (full enforcement). Before such restrictions are enacted on an editor, he or she must be issued with a warning containing a link to the decision.

For the Arbitration Committee,
AGK (talk) 14:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Random and lengthy list of pop tunes involving an oboe in some manner

You are certainly welcome to disagree, but repeatedly calling my edits "bad" and "not proper" is abusive. Moreover, you are obliged actually to read and acknowledge my argument. You are welcome to state a counter argument if you have one, but throwing around the term important is different from arguing reasonably. TheScotch (talk) 07:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


I see you've also had problems with this one. Grr. Some are so intent on pushing POV. I can't wait until Jimbo's had enough and starts permanently blocking problem editors and IPs with a history of vandalism. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 01:46, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Funny you should mention that, I am trying to bring that to the attention of an admin. But the one admin I know really well only wants to focus on Scouting-related articles, which is his call. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 08:55, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button Button sig.png located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 02:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Tet flower

Tet flower

As promised, here's a picture of the flower my parents used for Tet. I have no idea what it's called. DHN (talk) 04:01, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Percussion

I noticed you've done a lot of work on percussion-related articles in the past and, from the looks of it, right now. EvanSeeds and I have started what hopefully will be a full-fledged WikiProject, but we're giving it a trial run within my userspace. I wondered if you might want to participate. Cheers, Kakofonous (talk) 04:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

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"Four Gentlemen"

I've created an article at the "Four Gentlemen" about the orchid, bamboo, chrysanthemum, and ume. I based it on the Japanese Wikipedia article as it was more useful and explanatory. However, I'm not totally happy with the translation. Art is not my forte.

Also, I've put it at "Four Gentlemen", which may not be considered totally satisfactory as I don't know how widely the term is used. However, it is (1) translated that way in dictionaries, (2) neutral as to language (the term is also found in Japanese, Vietnamese, and presumably Korean), (3) probably just as widely used as "four junzi flowers" or other possible alternatives -- so I've put the article there, tentatively at least.

I also translated "ume" as "plum blossom" as that is the name by which it is traditionally known (regardless of macrobiotic usage in North America). But the wikilink goes to the right place.

Bathrobe (talk) 01:41, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

You are quick! I do think that plum blossom is more appropriate because that's the term people are used to. I think it's enough to have the article on the "ume" without proselytising the term throughout Wikipedia.
Bathrobe (talk) 01:45, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but the traditional term is "plum blossom", and the link takes you straight to ume. Having "traditionally translated as plum blossom", with a direct link to the irrelevant plum, doesn't seem any better to me. I think you are rather overzealous in "educating" people on this. Given that the term is a term from Chinese art, I don't think that using an identifiably Japanese term is totally appropriate, either.
Also, the Four Gentlemen have been used in China since the Song dynasty. Since China is the origin of the term and the practice, I'm not sure if saying it's been used in East Asian and Vietnamese art since the Song dynasty is totally accurate. For a start, I'm not sure when it diffused into Japanese or Vietnamese art. Secondly, Song dynasty is a Chinese term and doesn't refer to the political or cultural histories of the other countries. And thirdly (a minor point), for the purposes of Oriental art and culture, Vietnam belongs to "East Asia", so "East Asian and Vietnamese" sounds rather strange (although possibly needed by the modern reader).
Bathrobe (talk) 01:55, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Very nice painting you've found! An excellent illustration of what the article is about.
Bathrobe (talk) 02:00, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Now we just need an article on the Three Friends of Winter! That will have to be for another day.
Bathrobe (talk) 02:04, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
"Four Gentlemen" and Wu Zhen: I have no idea. We need some real expertise here, or a very thorough search of the Internet.
Bathrobe (talk) 01:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
At the Baidu article on the Four Gentlemen [3] it says this: 明代黄凤池辑有《梅竹兰菊四谱》,从此,梅兰竹菊被称为“四君”。So here it's claimed that Huang Fengchi is the one!
Bathrobe (talk) 01:33, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
This page [4] backs you up by mentioning both names: 中国画术语。指以梅、兰、竹、菊四种花卉为题材的总称。花鸟画之分支。宋元若干画家好写竹、梅、加上松树,称“岁寒三友”。元代吴镇在“三友”外加画兰花,名“四友图”。明神宗万历(1573-1619)间,黄凤池辑<梅竹兰菊四谱>,陈继儒称“四君”,后即名“四君子”。后人又加上松树(或水仙,或奇石)合称“五清”或“五友”。清代王概编<芥子园画传>第三集,即为梅、兰、竹、菊四谱。这类题材,能象征高洁的品格和正真、坚强、坚忍、乐观以及不畏强暴的精神,历代画家久画不衰。
Bathrobe (talk) 01:46, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
An extremely rough translation of the above is: "The Four Gentlemen is a term in Chinese painting. It refers to the four plants plum, orchid, bamboo, and chrysanthemum as a subject for painting. It is a sub-category of "bird-and-flower painting". During the Song, Yuan Ruogan liked to paint bamboo and plum, plus pine, calling it "the three friends of the cold". In the Yuan dynasty, Wu Zhen added the orchid to the "three friends" and called it the "four friends picture". In the Ming Shenzong Wanli period (1573-1619), Huang Fengchi edited the "Plum bamboo orchid, chrysanthemum - four pictures". Chen Jiru called it the "sijun (four gentlemen)", later becoming "sijunzi". Later, people added the pine tree (or narcissus, or strangely shaped rocks), and the combination was called the "wu qing" (five pure) or "wuyou" (five friends). In the Qing dynasty, Wang Gai edited the third volume of the "Mustard seed garden Paintings", that is, "plum, orchid, bamboo, chrysanthemum - four pictures". (rest omitted).
Bathrobe (talk) 02:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The above suggests a gradual process. Plus, while the explanation is clear, it leaves you scratching your head. If Wu Zhen "added" the orchid, then his version of the "Four Gentlemen" would have been "plum, bamboo, pine, orchid". Not the same as the modern four gentlemen, so it's hard to say he originated it. Huang Fengchi is the one who first put the four current members together, it seems.
It also seems inaccurate to say, except in a very indirect way, that the Four Gentlemen date back to the Song. But that, of course, assumes that the above page is completely correct and accurate. It does give pretty good explanation.
Bathrobe (talk) 02:29, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Ume in Vietnamese

I'm curious. My dictionaries (V-Chinese, V-English) translate as "apricot" or 杏. Is the article on ume correct in giving it as a word for the ume? Bathrobe (talk) 02:36, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Or should that be "mơ châu Âu" ("European ume") :)
Bathrobe (talk) 02:47, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Ask for help

I have rewritten Phong Nha-Ke Bang National Park. Could you please review and correct it for me. Please also advise me what to do more to make it a GA candidate. Because WPVN has several Vietnam War-related articles that passed GA and FA nomination and I wish something different. Thank you very much.Genghiskhanviet (talk) 08:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


I responded to your comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Percussion. Kakofonous (talk) 17:34, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

"yunluo" article image

I am very interested in the partial image you supplied in this article and others about Chinese instruments. Could you tell me the source so I can see the complete image?

Thank you.

Jie Rui —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jie Rui (talkcontribs) 21:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Chinese musicians

Thank you very much!

Jie Rui —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jie Rui (talkcontribs) 23:25, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I am a composer - I've been composing for over 35 years. Over the last few years I have been indulging my interest in Chinese culture by studying the Chinese language and, more recently, Chinese music and art. I very much enjoy, and am inspired by, listening to traditional Chinese music.I have also been to China 8 or 9 times in the last 4 years. I am currently composing a contemporary piece for dizi, erhu, guzheng and percussion. In April,I will be in Beijing to conduct the premiere of my work for erhu and string orchestra at the Central Conservatory.

I enjoy your Wiki articles very much!

I am also starting a little collection of ancient paintings and engravings of Chinese musicians in action.

My nickname is actually Jerry, which nicely translates in Chinese to Jie Rui(杰瑞). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jie Rui (talkcontribs) 00:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Great! We do have a lot in common. If I ever get my webpage set up properly, I will give you some samples of my music.One of the things I find very interesting about Chinese traditional music theory and the music it describes is how advanced it was and how itg relates to medieval sacred music. It's a little late for me to switch careers to ethnomusicology, but it is a fascinating study.

JieRuiJie Rui (talk) 15:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


Unfortunately, I don't have a clue. I found the same picture in 中国古琴芸术 with the caption "仕女演乐图" beneath it but the text doesn't refer to it or its date of publication. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 20:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Li Er

It IS mentioned at Laozi - in pieces. "In popular biographies, Laozi's given name was Er, his surname was Li and his courtesy name was Boyang. " WhisperToMe (talk) 04:04, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Just added Li Er as a whole. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:04, 22 February 2008 (UTC) - The Taoist mission in Singapore uses those characters - they have to be the right ones. If you are still not sure you can check with Wikipedia:WikiProject China - I think they are the right ones. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:07, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

The "Dan" was there - "Dan is a posthumous name given to Laozi." WhisperToMe (talk) 04:12, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

AFAIK Li Tan wasn't misspelled - it was just using Wade-Giles. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:14, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


{{Vietdiacritic}} - Just made this template. Whack it on a talk page of the article, and it will put the article in a category of articles needing diacrtics so it can be easily chased down. Blnguyen (photo straw poll) 07:51, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I find it intrusive to use templates on the main article. If there is a massive problem, like no sources, no refs, POV, spam farm, then its good to put a sign on the main article, but if it is just a five second job to fix, then its easier to simply put a maintenance tag on teh talk page, like for photo requests. Otherwise the main page looks like it has some dreadful problem when it is easily fixed. Íll check this cat on a regular basis. Blnguyen (photo straw poll) 07:54, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Waterboarding RfM

A Request for Mediation has been filed on the Waterboarding article concerning the content dispute in the first six words of the article. You have been named as a party and your participation would be appreciated. I believe this is the best approach to an amicable resolution of the dispute. Please indicate your agreement here. Thank you. Neutral Good (talk) 20:18, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

The results of the third sockpuppet investigation in the history of this content dispute may be found here. Some editors, and even an administrator, are using the unresolved sockpuppet accusation as an excuse to dodge mediation. So that excuse no longer exists. Neutral Good (talk) 00:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


Hello, Badagnani. I am wondering if you can help to clarify the licensing situation of Image:Jointcompound.jpg. I see that you have e-mailed Marc de Winter asking for the image to be released under a Creative Commons license, and he agreed to "the Creative Commons license". There are many Creative Commons licenses, some of which are acceptable here and others (those that include "noncommercial-only" or "no derivative works" clauses) which are not. There appears to be no indication of which license Mr. de Winter has agreed to. It would help if you can ask him to agree to a specific Creative Commons license (for example, Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic), and then change the licensing tag on the image description page to the appropriate Creative Commons tag. Please let me know if I can help or if you have any questions. —Bkell (talk) 14:36, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

The same goes for Image:Amarobottles2.jpg. —Bkell (talk) 14:38, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
And Image:Funguo.jpg. I'm sorry, I did a search in the Image namespace for "flickr" and all of the images you uploaded are coming up first, for some reason. I'm not picking on you in particular. —Bkell (talk) 14:40, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Another one: Image:Garcinialivingstonei.jpg. —Bkell (talk) 14:41, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Request for mediation not accepted

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Dear Ghaly, you did a great job making an article about Azbakeya. A senior professor here was born in Sakakini, but we cannot find an article about this neighborhood of the Daher area of Cairo. Can you make one? (Also, do we need a Daher article?) Badagnani (talk) 04:22, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, he says that Rod El Farag is missing. Badagnani (talk) 04:28, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

One more thing: "Haram" is included in the template, but redirects to "Cairo." Is this an actual place? Badagnani (talk) 04:28, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your message , I will try to start the articles you asked for and I will try to look for supporting references for them , best wishes--Ghaly (talk) 08:33, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Elgameel street is in ElDaher area I know that because I lived in Cairo for a long time,but boundaries between Daher and Sakakini changed over the year, the category is an ethnic more than a religious group thank--Ghaly (talk) 09:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Rod El Farag also spelt Rod Elfarag is about a third of the area historically known as Shobra , would you like it as a separate district in the template or as I have put it? , I might not be able to finish all what you asked for today , would that be OK?--Ghaly (talk) 09:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
I started the articles you asked for , good luck.--Ghaly (talk) 23:08, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Chinese Name

Please join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (use of Chinese language). HkCaGu (talk) 22:05, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


The diacritics on Van Hanh are definitely correct, but I havent heard of this monk. Was he one of the emperors who renounced the throne? Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 06:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Aziz El-Shawan


This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Aziz El-Shawan, and it appears to be a substantial copy of For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 06:31, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


Apprently, because of this crap in it: phenylthiocarbamide. Although to me, it's not bitter; cilantro tastes like rotting meat that's been pissed on. - (talk) 23:32, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Rhoda and Egypt

Hi Badagnani! I added the transliteration to the Rhoda Island article as you requested. I will do my best with the articles you're working on. Do let me know if I can be of any help. Your work on Egypt-related articles is appreciated :-) — Zerida 01:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm glad you liked my user page :-). Your studies sound quite interesting. You may want to take a gander at Music of Egypt sometime. I will see if I can find Arabic-language sources on these topics as well. Cheers, — Zerida 01:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

CC-BY attribution

I stumbled onto your conversation with Bkell at User talk:Bkell. FYI, all of the CC licenses accept an optional parameter where you can specify how the attribution should be done, for example: {{cc-by-2.0|1=Joe Bloggs,}}. Hope that helps. howcheng {chat} 03:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

(Hmm. I never noticed that. Thanks. —Bkell (talk) 07:53, 27 February 2008 (UTC))


Sorry to disappoint you but what you say is just the same as last time, all over again, you realize I won't listen to your dirty words. You don't scare me. In fact, You're the one who make the page to be vadalism, because those pages were Vietnamese histories so we only need Vietnamese original words, you are reducing value of Vietnamese historical articles by adding the ill-looking Han tu, making it look half Chi half Viet, ha ha. I won't allow that. You should stop doing that. To me, you are just a shockpuppet of Han tu, and you're trying to make Han tu more interest. JacquesNguyen (talk) 06:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Shannon Lee

There are four cities in the Palos Verdes Peninsula: Palos Verdes Estates, Rancho Palos Verdes, Rolling Hills, and Rolling Hills Estates, and they have weird boundaries but are all within the same ZIP code. I can imagine that school district boundaries, distribution of businesses would often bring people to another city, which means probably nobody is sure which city we should credit Shannon Lee to. HkCaGu (talk) 00:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Re. Goblet Drum

Hmm, odd. The only article I found under Tabla was this one, which points to the English-language article drum. There is no article on the Middle Eastern drum specifically as far as I can see, though there is some historical information in that article on the its use in the region. — Zerida 04:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Yep, I though about that too actually, but unfortunately nothing there either. — Zerida 04:30, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Never heard of that, but let me check. — Zerida 04:31, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
No, no luck on that one either. I checked under the main category of music instruments and found nothing. Also checked under the article percussion instrument, which doesn't say much. — Zerida 04:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

The name you added to Cairo Symphony Orchestra is the correct one. The other one was just missing a letter. Don't know if a transliteration is necessary; I don't usually add them to articles because I prefer IPA. But in case you want them, for the opera the transliteration is Dār el-Obra el-Masreyya and for the orchestra Orkestra el-Qāhera el-Semfōni. — Zerida 20:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Typing Arabic

Sorry, Badagnani, I am definitely not the right person to ask this type of question as I am pretty technically challenged :-( I rarely type in Arabic myself and have my computer set up so that I can optionally do it only when the needs arises. You might want to ask Ghaly or someone from Category:User ar who can help. Cheers, — Zerida 22:38, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Gene Nygaard

Hi Badagnani, I see that you've been reverting Gene's senseless removal of Chinese names from various articles. I've also noticed that Gene's basis of removal is "that as Americans, foreign scripts shouldn't be used". Well I did a little searching and noticed that he was only removing Chinese names, for example an article that Gene editted serveral times, Abuhena Saifulislam who is a Bangladeshi-American, he did not attempt to remove the Bengali name from the article. It just seems like Gene has a weird agenda only going after Chinese text. Abstrakt (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 02:31, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Arabic on words xp

Thanks for your message , unfortunately I can't help you with this problem , I don't have Arabic on my computer , when I edit in Arabic I copy and paste word by word and letter by letter , which is very laborious but it is the only way I can do it using my laptop , hope your problem willl be sorted soon , --Ghaly (talk) 08:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)