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21 June 2024
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17 June 2024
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Articles for deletion
- 18 Jun 2024 – Maryam Rostampour and Marziyeh Amirizadeh (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by GnocchiFan (t · c); see discussion (2 participants)
- 17 Jun 2024 – The Fathers of the Church (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Dclemens1971 (t · c); see discussion (4 participants)
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- 13 Jun 2024 – Daughters of Mary Immaculate (Chaldean) (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Dan arndt (t · c); see discussion (4 participants; relisted)
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- 07 Jun 2024 – Moscow United Methodist Church (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by Newhaven lad (t · c) was closed as delete by Malinaccier (t · c) on 14 Jun 2024; see discussion (7 participants)
- 02 Jun 2024 – WVTN-LD (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by Mvcg66b3r (t · c) was closed as delete by Explicit (t · c) on 14 Jun 2024; see discussion (3 participants; relisted)
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- 13 Jun 2024 – David Catherwood (talk · edit · hist) PRODed by Iadmc (t · c) was deleted
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- 18 Jun 2024 – Jesus Is King (talk · edit · hist) was GT nominated by Kyle Peake (t · c); see discussion
The topic includes: God Is
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- 10 May 2024 – Chaldean Catholics (talk · edit · hist) is proposed for merging by HurryHurrian (t · c); see discussion
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- 27 Aug 2021 – List of venerated Americans (talk · edit · hist) is proposed for splitting by ClueBot NG (t · c); see discussion
- 20 Jun 2020 – St Cuthbert's Church, Edinburgh (talk · edit · hist) is proposed for splitting by CPClegg (t · c); see discussion
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- 18 Jun 2024 – Draft:Remember Me (software) (talk · edit · hist) has been submitted for AfC by Bapoux (t · c)
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- 17 May 2024 – Draft:Southern District Convocation Goldsboro (talk · edit · hist) has been submitted for AfC by TheEditorIAm (t · c)
- 13 May 2024 – Draft:Gaetan Roy (talk · edit · hist) has been submitted for AfC by Curry28 (t · c)
- 04 May 2024 – Draft:Joint Commission Of The Theological Dialogue Between The Orthodox Church And The Oriental Orthodox Churches (talk · edit · hist) has been submitted for AfC by Contagious Owl (t · c)
- 01 May 2024 – Draft:Porfiry Ilchuk (talk · edit · hist) has been submitted for AfC by Loganmoi21 (t · c)
- (12 more...)
- Christianity Deletion list
Christianity[edit]
Maryam Rostampour and Marziyeh Amirizadeh[edit]
- Maryam Rostampour and Marziyeh Amirizadeh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Opening this deletion discussion per WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE on the talk page (here). Would love to hear editors' thoughts going forward. GnocchiFan (talk) 22:36, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I would urge anyone who comments in this discussion to look on the talk page from (one of) the subjects of the article. GnocchiFan (talk) 16:48, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: I think that Marziyeh Amirizadeh is too notable to delete. Maryam Rostampour is arguably notable as well, despite the fact that Marziyeh Amirizadeh is the only one of the two with continuing coverage. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 01:15, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Christianity, Islam, Iran, and Georgia (U.S. state). Eastmain (talk • contribs) 01:16, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. Draft:Marziyeh Amirizadeh exists as a draft. Assuming that both women are notable, perhaps Draft:Marziyeh Amirizadeh could be added to article space after any necessary improvements are made, and this article could be moved to Maryam Rostamour-Keller (her current name), thereby preserving the edit history. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 08:37, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- If agreement is that there is enough information to split, I think this is a good idea. Otherwise, I think that Marziyeh Amirizadeh's name be removed from this article per request and this article moved to Maryam Rostamour-Keller per your suggestion. GnocchiFan (talk) 22:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- Split I think it is reasonable to have this specific article deleted. However, I would be open to the thought of having a separate article for Maryam Rostampour if she is notable enough. Marziyeh Amirizadeh on the surface level appears to be a notable figure (I have not done much research into her life though), so I would be more comfortable with having a separate article for her. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 18:35, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
The Fathers of the Church[edit]
- The Fathers of the Church (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article appears to fail WP:GNG and WP:BOOKS, with only primary sources used in article. A BEFORE search is complicated by the title of the series. Google Books and Google Scholar turn up citations to individual books in the series, but I can find no secondary coverage of the series as a series. Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:17, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Literature and Christianity. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 03:28, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- Comment the book exists! [1] [2] and there are reviews [3] [4] Not sure where to go with this. It's a massive undertaking so is probably notable in its field but not enough coverage yet— Iadmc♫talk 03:43, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Logos has the entire 130 volumes for sale electronically for a cool $2365.00 before discounts. Not every book sold by Logos is notable, but many (most?) of them are, and recognized as reference volumes for Christian and adjacent religious studies. How many of the 130 included volumes are individually notable? I have no idea. We've had previous discussions on book series articles recently, and looking at this in that light, I'm relatively certain this should be kept, but more research would be reasonable. Jclemens (talk) 03:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Jclemens and @Iadmc - Looks like three of the four links posted above are to direct links to the individual books, not reviews, but the Sage Publications link is to a 1948 review of the series. If we can turn up one or two more reviews of the series itself, I will consider that sufficient to keep and withdraw the nomination. Dclemens1971 (talk) 13:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- It was hard to find those! I'll try though soon — Iadmc♫talk 14:05, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks! I was not able to turn them up in my BEFORE search but I would like to keep the article if we can establish additional sources. Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:50, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- There was just a discussion on how series relate to NBOOKS, last month I think, and I believe the general consensus was that a series involving multiple notable books merited an article. Of course, it would then have to list or link to those books, which it currently does not. Jclemens (talk) 16:34, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- From that discussion, actually, I'd say that a series article without individual book articles to link to can be a sensible outcome per WP:PAGEDECIDE when individual books are notable but readers will be better served by series-level coverage. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 17:27, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn @Jclemens Can you share a link to that discussion? I am operating off the WP:NBOOK policy, which does not address series. Dclemens1971 (talk) 17:34, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Dclemens1971 Sure, it's here. Looking more closely, there were a few folks who wanted to treat "large general-topic publisher book series" different from, e.g. Game of Thrones-style series. But if folks are able to turn up NBOOK reviews for a few of the individual books in this particular series, there would at least be a case to be made. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 17:55, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- OK, let's see what comes up. After reading the debate, I'm reluctant to withdraw this nomination on the basis of proposals that have not been adopted as policy; my read of the governing policy would still require WP:GNG to be demonstrated for a series even if individual books are notable. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- But each book having it's own article would be mad! Better to have them under one umbrella surely? — Iadmc♫talk 18:56, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- Given the dearth of reviews I'm not sure how many are notable on their own anyway. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:13, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- But each book having it's own article would be mad! Better to have them under one umbrella surely? — Iadmc♫talk 18:56, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- OK, let's see what comes up. After reading the debate, I'm reluctant to withdraw this nomination on the basis of proposals that have not been adopted as policy; my read of the governing policy would still require WP:GNG to be demonstrated for a series even if individual books are notable. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Dclemens1971 Sure, it's here. Looking more closely, there were a few folks who wanted to treat "large general-topic publisher book series" different from, e.g. Game of Thrones-style series. But if folks are able to turn up NBOOK reviews for a few of the individual books in this particular series, there would at least be a case to be made. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 17:55, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn @Jclemens Can you share a link to that discussion? I am operating off the WP:NBOOK policy, which does not address series. Dclemens1971 (talk) 17:34, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- From that discussion, actually, I'd say that a series article without individual book articles to link to can be a sensible outcome per WP:PAGEDECIDE when individual books are notable but readers will be better served by series-level coverage. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 17:27, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- There was just a discussion on how series relate to NBOOKS, last month I think, and I believe the general consensus was that a series involving multiple notable books merited an article. Of course, it would then have to list or link to those books, which it currently does not. Jclemens (talk) 16:34, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks! I was not able to turn them up in my BEFORE search but I would like to keep the article if we can establish additional sources. Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:50, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- It was hard to find those! I'll try though soon — Iadmc♫talk 14:05, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Jclemens and @Iadmc - Looks like three of the four links posted above are to direct links to the individual books, not reviews, but the Sage Publications link is to a 1948 review of the series. If we can turn up one or two more reviews of the series itself, I will consider that sufficient to keep and withdraw the nomination. Dclemens1971 (talk) 13:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
Daughters of Mary Immaculate (Chaldean)[edit]
- Daughters of Mary Immaculate (Chaldean) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NORG, is dependent upon primary sources and lacks any reliable independent secondary sources. Dan arndt (talk) 15:00, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Religion and Iraq. Dan arndt (talk) 15:00, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I’ve searched in Arabic and aside from material published by the order itself I’ve only found material from Chaldean community sources, i.e. not Iraqi national or regional news. From what I can see notability is not established and it would probably make sense to look for a merge target such as Chaldean Catholic Church. Mccapra (talk) 20:49, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 22:39, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per above. Orientls (talk) 15:13, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to see if there is more support for a possible Merge
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 16:43, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
St. James Armenian Church[edit]
- St. James Armenian Church (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Unsourced article with no indication of notability. A BEFORE search finds nothing but run-of-the-mill local coverage of the church, and it's not a registered historic building. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 22:08, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, Religion, Armenia, and Massachusetts. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 22:08, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 03:27, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:42, 15 June 2024 (UTC)- Keep and improve- I think with a bit of time and dedication the article can be improved and expanded. A simple google search yielded 184,000 results. For an almost 100 year old church, they still seem to be quite active on their website and social platforms and they appear to engage with the wider community through planning various events. Archives908 (talk) 13:14, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete The article is about a "church located in Watertown, Massachusetts" but a search shows that there are churches of this name/denomination throughout the US. Were there an article on the denomination (with appropriate sources) this might stand, but I don't see anything that would make this one location on its own worthy of an article. Lamona (talk) 22:45, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Ref WP:NCHURCH, I don't see that WP:GNG is met (per WP:AUD, local coverage is generally insufficient to establish notability, and announcements of events at the church are both trivial and fail INDEPENDENT). Mentioned at Watertown, Massachusetts -- the city is quite an Armenian hub -- but given that the name is hardly unique, redirection is not a suitable outcome (and if it were to be kept it should move as it really doesn't meet WP:PRIMARYTOPIC). In theory could be turned into a DAB, but that's running up against WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Briefest coverage of St James and St Stephens and any other Armenian churches at Watertown, Massachusetts#Armenian population is probably ok. ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 04:42, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
Romy Tiongco[edit]
- Romy Tiongco (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The article does not meet the notability guidelines of WP:POLITICIAN TheNuggeteer (talk) 13:54, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Politicians, and Politics. TheNuggeteer (talk) 13:54, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Christianity, Philippines, and United Kingdom. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 16:42, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. I think the two programmes on the BBC all about him and the first of these and its report his on him were what led me to start this page and think him notable enough - perhaps via general notability rather than as a politician per se. A political activist, NGO worker and then politician (Msrasnw (talk) 17:25, 7 June 2024 (UTC))
- Comment - maybe you should find more sources, only 2 out of the 7 sources work.
- TheNuggeteer (talk) 00:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- If there are 2 "working" sources, that should be enough for WP:GNG. Howard the Duck (talk) 05:27, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- One of the sources is a video source which does not work anymore, is one source okay? TheNuggeteer (talk) 05:45, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- Our "policy" on this is WP:LINKROT, and it being dead should not be taken against the article, more so if the reference is more than a decade old.
- So no, your premise of this article having just one source doesn't hold. Howard the Duck (talk) 07:07, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- One of the sources is a video source which does not work anymore, is one source okay? TheNuggeteer (talk) 05:45, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- If there are 2 "working" sources, that should be enough for WP:GNG. Howard the Duck (talk) 05:27, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete I did a WP:BEFORE search outside of the sources in the article and can't find anything which suggests to me that the article passes WP:GNG. The non-working links do not necessarily suggest there was secondary coverage of him, either - the magazine just has a wordpress site and the BBC radio bit is an interview, which are not secondary. SportingFlyer T·C 17:30, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 14:26, 14 June 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 21:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
James Sunter[edit]
- James Sunter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Don't see how this individual is notable enough for a page, both in the general sense and in the parameters for which clerics are notable. Much of the article is unreferenced, and some of the sources at the bottom are only brief mentions. One actually focuses on the son of the subject. Leonstojka (talk) 23:48, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Christianity, England, and Australia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:05, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Academics and educators, Christianity, England, and Australia. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 00:09, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Canon Sunter was arguably the most important incumbent of St Paul's church (now repurposed), the third, and most central, Anglican church in Adelaide. His activities were regularly reported in Adelaide newspapers, rating over 1,000 mentions on Trove, and there may be more to find, as the illustration appears to be taken from an encyclopedia or church history. Doug butler (talk) 21:04, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:15, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - With all due respect to the hard-workings of Wikipedians who insist on adherence to all the Wikipedia dictates ... there's more to it when it comes to spiritual leaders. I've done a great many Hawaii articles on spiritual leaders. The ones that impress me with their Christian walk in life, are not the ones who necessarily made the headlines when alive. It's people like Alice Kahokuoluna and Father Damien who put their own safety aside to care for the helpless leprosy patients. The ones who don't impress me are the spiritual leaders who make the news, and hobnob with legislative leaders. Not to knock Wikipedia guidelines, but people putting their own lives and welfare on the line to serve others, just doesn't seem to arise in Wikipedia guidelines. — Maile (talk) 02:49, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: I tend to agree with the nomination. This is a rather well-sourced biography of a religious person, but I'm not sure what the notability is... He built a school, ministered to the faithful, other routine things. I suppose it would all get reported on at the time, but it's all strictly local news reporting on what the pastor was up to that week. Oaktree b (talk) 03:53, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, a lot of Wikipedia is like that. That's what makes it useful. Doug butler (talk) 04:28, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- What's wrong with this source, which appears to be an extensive full-column long story on his life in a major newspaper? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:14, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Linked five times in the article. Doug butler (talk) 15:52, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Technical question: when the deletionists have whittled the English WP down to 1 million articles class C and above, or 2 million mid-importance or higher, how much storage space will be saved ? Doug butler (talk) 16:12, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This isn't a debate about inclusionists vs. deletionists but just whether or not the sources that can be located can establish notability. Let's focus on that here before closing this discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:56, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- Weak keep. Of the included sources, I find a bare minimum of two instances of WP:SIGCOV: the Advertiser obit and a Quiz and Lantern column. I didn't find any other SIGCOV in a cursory BEFORE search but the baseline for WP:GNG is "multiple" so I suppose this qualifies. Dclemens1971 (talk) 23:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
Traders Point Christian Church[edit]
- Traders Point Christian Church (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:GNG. Only one source is independent and significant. User:Namiba 14:40, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Christianity and Indiana. User:Namiba 14:40, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: First hit in Gsearch is their own website, then it's off into un-RS... The article uses primary sources now and I don't find coverage of this church. Having the fastest growing congregation in 2016 isn't terribly notable and the rest isn't helpful for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 15:26, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. There's significant coverage in a book (see Diamond, 2003), as well as in Indianapolis Monthly. The Indy Star coverage available can support facts in the article but doesn't go toward notability because (even though some is in great depth) it's generally coverage of new locations and inclusion in "fastest growing" lists that WP:ORGCRIT excludes. Even so, the Diamond book and Indianapolis Monthly piece should cross the bar. Dclemens1971 (talk) 03:20, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep as per the reliable sources coverage identified above by Dclemen1971, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 18:57, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Malinaccier (talk) 20:30, 12 June 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 21:35, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Per the two above, but I'd like to see a lot more about the church's history than 'it started in 1834...oh it's a megachurch now' and its history needs to be seriously filled in. Nate • (chatter) 21:44, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Categories for discussion[edit]
- Christian religious leaders: further follow-up required, see Category talk:Religious leaders#Clergy categories