Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games

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viewtalkeditchanges

New Articles (14 July to 28 July)[edit]

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Salavat (talk) 05:49, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

New Articles (26 July to 4 August)[edit]

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Salavat (talk) 10:34, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

  • @JimmyBlackwing: Do you think there are sources sufficient to cover all of the games in the Jane's series of games with one article per game, or would they be better covered in articles on the series? --Izno (talk) 14:42, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
  • Honestly, the Jane's series was probably the best-covered flight sim series of its time, barring possibly Microsoft Flight Simulator. Jane's games were common cover stories and frequent game of the year winners/contenders—plenty of development and reception material. It's sad to see their articles in such a state, really, because there's a lot that could be done with them if people were interested. All of our current flight sim FAs were made with much less. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 15:56, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Stand-alone notability[edit]

Hi everyone,

I stumbled upon Tiberium and List of Command & Conquer factions. The "factions" article has a total of a nine references, two of which are from GameRankings. The Tiberium one (for those unfamiliar, Tiberium is an in-game resource), has ten references, most of which are barely related to the concept of Tiberium. Fun fact, Tiberium was created in July, 2003. Am I wrong to assume we as WP:VG have new standards to live up to? Wouldn't two neatly trimmed section on main article Command & Conquer be more than sufficient? soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 12:19, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

I could view List of Command & Conquer factions as a pagesize fork, as long as its considered valid in a general sense. Tiberium should be massively trimmed and merged back to the series article. Not a notable topic. -- ferret (talk) 12:45, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
Both could probably stand a merge given how disconnected the series are (besides RA's use of C&C classic): the Tiberian factions to Command & Conquer: Tiberian series; the Red Alert factions to Command & Conquer: Red Alert (series); and the Generals factions to either Command & Conquer: Generals or Command & Conquer: Generals – Zero Hour as appropriate. Tiberium of course to Command & Conquer: Tiberian series. --Izno (talk) 13:20, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
Wasn't aware each side series had a series article. With that in mind, I agree. -- ferret (talk) 19:23, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
I didn't know that either. Follow-up question: does it make sense to have a Command & Conquer (series), a Command & Conquer: Red Alert (series) and a Command & Conquer: Tiberian series? Is the latter one actually considered a "separate" series? Because I thought that Red Alert was the shoot-off from the "main" C&C series. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 12:16, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
Go read the article--the games have sufficiently different plots and enough different gameplay that the different series articles is fine. --Izno (talk) 14:14, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, let me rephrase that; is the "Tiberian" series actually considered a separate one? By reliable sources I mean. The references provided don't show that as such, and I'm not sure what to look for on the VG/RS search engine. Isn't it just the "Tiberian" storyline, not the "Tiberian" series? To WP:OTHERSTUFF it, there's a Call of Duty article, but no articles on the Modern Warfare story arc or the Black Ops story arc (granted, they're far more similar in gameplay, but they do have different plots). soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 07:15, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes, they are mostly separate. C&C classic actually belongs to the Tiberian/Tiberium series; RA is a prequel that diverged from the timeline established in C&C, and the plot drives differences in reception between the series. Plainly, besides that, there are bigger fish to fry than these. --Izno (talk) 12:28, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
If I'm keeping you away from doing other things, my apologies. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 13:07, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Video Games Released in Asian Countries Besides Japan[edit]

I would like to ask, why is it that some console software lists here in Wikipedia don't include Asian countries besides Japan when it comes to release dates? Why is it that it's usually just Japan and nothing else? For example, the list of PS4 games ans the list of Xbox One games only lists Japan, Europe, and North America.Nintendoswitchfan (talk) 19:19, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Its just because those are the major regions for where most video games are developed and released. Charts get really cluttered when others are included. Sergecross73 msg me 19:24, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) It stems from WP:VGDATE, which stipulates that release dates should only be listed for English speaking regions, or the region of the developer. With two of the three major consoles being based out of Japan, it is generally included in lists as a result. -- ferret (talk) 19:25, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh ok. That makes sense to me now, thanks. Nintendoswitchfan (talk) 19:26, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

  • I didn't notice this thread until now, but it reminded me of something I have thought about. When a Japanese game's (or theoretically any non-English game) first English release is in Asia, do we list that in the infobox? This doesn't happen super often, I think, but I remember that Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 was released in English, but only in Asia. I've also heard of some PS Vita dungeon crawlers getting English Asian releases and then either not getting released at all in the West or only way later.--IDVtalk 19:09, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

New Articles (31 July to 11 August)[edit]

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Salavat (talk) 12:06, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

  • Just giving a public note of thanks to old hand @Zxcvbnm: who has been powering through WP:VG/R like a machine. - hahnchen 13:21, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
    • Thank you! We could always use more backup, the backlog is absolutely massive.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 10:04, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
      • It is futile, there are more games being released now (and more notable ones at that) than ever before. I only hope the requests I add to the list are interesting ones to write about! #indiepocalypse - hahnchen 18:05, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
        • I dare not say we start implementing this now, but I do wonder if we should apply more stricter notability guidelines for indie video games, moreso than just having a handful of scores at Metacritic. Eg having at minimum some type of development section that is more than just release details. This idea would need a lot more fleshing out, just throwing it out there. --MASEM (t) 19:02, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
          • That proposal is strange to me. If something gets detailed coverage by several RSs, I really don't see how it could not be considered notable. You could hypothetically have a game that got reviewed by most major VG websites and won awards, but where the developer did not do any interviews, so we don't know anything about the development. Even if we were to implement something like this, "indie" isn't super well defined. Thekla, Inc. can probably safely be called an indie studio, but how about something like Double Fine? As an aside, having a Metacritic score is kind of irrelevant, other than as a tool to find reviews. You can have a game getting covered by a dozen non-reliable sources that get listed on MC, which clearly don't contribute to notability, but you can also have a game getting plenty of RS coverage but only few reviews that are listed on MC.--IDVtalk 19:21, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
            • I know, it's not a fully complete idea. However, recognizing that Hahnchen's comment above was accompanied by the "indiepocylpse" in the edit summary, and that we had recent reports that showed that with Steam Direct drawing in huge number of titles since its launch, there is something to be said that we need to be more aware of the larger number of games out there. Coverage by RSes still works, just that it will be interesting to see if this does change and if we have to change with that. --MASEM (t) 19:58, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
              • "Indiepocalypse" implies that the games are NOT getting coverage by reliable sources - otherwise it wouldn't be very much of an "indiepocalypse". The "pocalypse" part comes from the fact that there are GOOD indie games that are getting NO coverage from anyone and therefore failing when they should logically succeed. So I don't think any "onslaught" of games will change the amount of video game articles that would merit creation because the same amount of good games are being created, while more shovelware is being allowed through. There will always be a backlog of undone video game articles but I think that when people are adding them to requests in the future they should consider adding ones with enough content to fill a development section rather than ones that barely squeak over the threshold and have no info about development.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:09, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
                • Indiepocalypse was used semi-jokingly. It refers to how there are so many indie titles now, achieving any amount of sales is a crapshoot. I think indie games are getting covered by reliable sources, that coverage may be spread out more thinly, but still enough to satisfy our RS requirements. So the pace of notable games being released has increased, whereas the number of new articles hasn't (and probably won't), I don't think there's anything we can really do about it, it's very difficult to get new blood. Changing the notability requirements is counterproductive, just accept that can't do it all. - hahnchen 20:54, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── For some perspective, many of our video game sources, especially the short articles that quite clearly regurgitate press releases, would be interpreted by editors at other ends of our encyclopedia as overly promotional/affiliated (i.e., not sufficiently independent). By this interpretation, sources should provide original analysis, source-mixing, fact-checking in individual articles, as opposed to promotional tone, quoted from press copy at length (same practice that we deride in our own articles). It isn't always clear-cut, but paring down our source material from the copious amounts of junk journalism would clearly be the place to start. I don't think there is any urgent issue with WP "notability" but I do recommend viewing it as "whether enough reliable, secondary sources exist to do justice to the topic" rather than "whether we have enough sources to write a single paragraph on the game". czar 07:31, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Console image format for infobox[edit]

In WP:VG/GL#Hardware, a JPEG format should be used for freely licenced photos of game consoles or peripherials. I'm concerned whether this applies to the infobox image for articles on video game consoles, so I want input from anyone here. Should we use a JPEG image, or the PNG format with a transparent background? – Hounder4 21:33, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

I see no reason to move away from JPG that have been done for most consoles with the white background - it avoids any conflicts with BG colors that may come up with PNG. (Also JPG is generally better for photographs, PNG is better for generated graphics). --MASEM (t) 00:10, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
This rule is arbitrary and should be stricken. However, there also seems to be a general crusade towards officially discouraging any use of photographs in PNG format. In this case, I do think that transparent images are more elegant in the infobox because it doesn't force part of the box to be white instead of grey. I'd suggest following that thread, where I will be bringing this up. Does something like this actually count as a photograph? ViperSnake151  Talk  14:59, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
A general crusade! Haha.. That's a good one. Except if you'd read that discussion you'd know that it isn't about discouraging any use of photographs in PNG format. Try not to trip up over your own hyperbole. nagualdesign 15:52, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Fansite interviews:[edit]

Sometimes sites which aren't considered Reliable Sources, will do original interviews with developers. Often the figures or games are a little obscure, or not involved in modern gaming, so modern gaming news sites might not have the time or interest to interview them. Can these interviews be sited? The only issues I'd say would be: 1. Is the interview genuine or a hoax? 2. Are there any translation issues? 3. Has the interview been edited in any way? The first issue would be easy to spot, and I consider it fairly unlikely a fansite would simply make up an interview. The second and third are more subtle issues, and some caution could be used with Fansite interviews, and the information in those interviews could be fact checked vs other sources. If a fansite interview claims something outrageous that is contradicted by other sources, then that interview could be suspcicious. Other than that, I see no major problems. The VG:Sources page does list fansites, but makes no reference to interviews. But does says that forum posts by developers is fine. By extension that should mean that forum posts are fine. Harizotoh9 (talk) 07:37, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

The way we typically do it is determine if the interview seems to be genuine, and if so, treat it as a self-published source by the interviewee. If the site often publishes articles of dubious accuracy, then you should avoid it; same if the interview seems to contradict facts known through sources we consider reliable. If the interviewee/the company they work at/etc confirms the interview is real (such as by linking to it through their social media), then you should be able to go right ahead and use it.--IDVtalk 19:01, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
  • @Harizotoh9: Fansites generally don't qualify as a reliable source. I would treat them as WP:PRIMARY sources if, and only if, they have a reputable history/background. --Niwi3 (talk) 19:11, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

In regards to wikilinks in citations[edit]

Basically, a good reason why I'm removing some wikilinks from references is thanks to AWB's feature to detect multiple wikilinks to a single article. Furthermore, I do not see a point in using wikilinks in citations if some of those wikilinks are also in prose. Is there a consensus on this or can we reach a consensus before I get more complaints on this? Also pinging Darkwarriorblake in order to move the discussion from my Talk page here. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 19:57, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Because citation order can change with just a single reuse of a citation, linking overkill does not apply to citations otherwise editors have to go back to refigure that out. It is similar to using links in a sortable table - you have no assurances which line will be first so you can't use "link only the first instance" as the metric. --MASEM (t) 20:00, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
With this in mind, what else could be considered linking overkill? Is there a Wikipedia guideline I can refer to before making these changes again? jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 20:04, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
Links in prose are the ones that should be handled with the "once per article", as per WP:DUPLINKS, but even then, there's common sense exceptions. --MASEM (t) 20:06, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

History of video games[edit]

Please refer to the article's Talk page to know what I'm talking about, but in case the same IP comes back with a similar request, do any of you believe it is necessary to include the information they are talking about ("Nimatron", "The Machine of Nim", "1940s", etc.)? jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 20:14, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Disruption at Sonic Mania[edit]

Hello, I've already sent this page to RfPP due to recent disruption caused by the release of the console version, and I was hoping if anyone would assist in regulating the article. I've already hit 3 reverts on the article today and I don't want to risk myself with another. Thank you. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 14:34, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

It's really nothing out of the ordinary for a popular game on actual release day. I wouldn't worry about it. Myself and a number of others are monitoring the article too, and most of the IP edits, while not improvements, aren't any sort of major issue. (The fans aren't outraged by the game, there's no real controversy or anything, etc.) Sergecross73 msg me 14:49, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
Normal for a game that just released. After a few days/week it begins to go back to pre-release levels of traffic, as they all move on to the next big release. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:22, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Recruit new editors for the project?[edit]

Hi! We have our system ready, and we can start recommending editors to your project now. We'd like to invite some of project organizers to our study. Participants will receive two batches of recommendations. If you think the recommended editors are good candidates for your project, we'd like you to invite them to the project.

Please let me know if you'd be interested in participating, add your WikiProject and username to the table on my user talk page. Thanks! Bobo.03 (talk) 15:22, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

In case it's been a while, here are the references for the previous conversation: thread1, thread2. Bobo.03 (talk) 02:50, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Also, we really appreciate the suggestions you bought up last time, especially thanks to Ferret, Thibbs, and Czar. Based on the previous discussion, we addressed the following issues.

  • We have tuned the system to filter editors who participated the project before (had edits on project pages and project talk pages), and editors who are blocked and vandals.
  • We add a couple more algorithms in generating the candidate editor list, and one is recommending editors based on their topic area.
  • We add an extra column to keep track of the activity level for those editors.
  • We are still in a discussion about how to indicate the propensity of an editor staying in the project. But our current algorithms are recommending candidate editors who are likely to contribute more and stay longer in the project after they are recruited based on the results of prior studies.

On the other hand, we are not able to provide solutions to the following suggestions, but will keep them in our backlog.

  • About how to help newcomers at a good timing, and how to help them overcome the potential culture difference in dealing with conflict, etc. It's a really good point, but unfortunately, it might be out of the scope of our current study. It needs further research work. We probably won't be able to resolve this at this point.
  • Monitoring the hot articles for the project is a great idea. We will try to develop tools for the WikiProjects in the future study.

Please let me know if these sound good to you, or you have any further concerns. We welcome you participate our study. Thanks! Bobo.03 (talk) 15:21, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

  • So far these sound like good improvements. I sympathize with the difficulties surrounding predictions of propensity for affiliation with the project. Sadly the best way to predict such a thing would be with an extensive editorial history from which characteristics like collaboration/cooperation, discussion, and adherence to site policies/guidelines would be apparent. New editors have to be considered from scant editing history and I see that this makes the predictor's job more difficult. I know you said it would be out of scope at present, but I also wanted to point out that as far as the monitoring of hot articles, another useful tool might be this external WP:VG watchlist. Good luck. -Thibbs (talk) 12:10, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
Hi Thibbs! Thanks for pointing out the point of making prediction based on editor's propensity of staying with the project, and yes, our system does extract and analyze the most recent 500 edits of the candidate editors, and decides if they are good candidates to recommend. Right now, we are recommending editors with a higher affliction with the project using the social attachment theories, identify-based attachment and bonds-based attachment (they are not in the table I presented earlier, but will show up in our final recommendation list). Predicting human behaviors in general is hard, but many prediction models for Wikipedia editors are actually out there. We are in a debate of whether include another algorithm based on the prediction model, for instance, to show the probability of this editor staying in the project in the next six months.
Thanks for pointing out that tool. Yeh, I think it's very helpful for our next project potentially. We are planning to develop a bot for WikiProject admins. Rather than the current bots in Wikipedia that only do tedious editing work in most cases like fixing templates, etc, the bot we are thinking about is more like a personal assistant that can help the admins do a more diverse set of tasks. Monitoring the hot articles sounds a good one to add! I am happy to keep discussing this idea as well! :) Bobo.03 (talk) 16:23, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

OpenRCT2 issue again[edit]

So at the RollerCoaster Tycoon 2 page, the same user who argued that OpenRCT2 should have its own page is now arguing that we should include its former infobox in the lead here, disregarding the entire reason why the article got merged back in the first place (lack of independent notability, as shown by its lack of third-party sources). Could more opinions be brought over to the discussion here? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:25, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

There is a long discussion spawning from the infobox debate at Talk:RollerCoaster Tycoon 2 regarding making wikilinks that suggest RCT2 has reached end-of-life (product) or is orphaned work. Asking for uninvolved editors to evaluate the discussion and comment. -- ferret (talk) 17:02, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
Moving the rest of this discussion per WP:MULTI to that talk page at Talk:RollerCoaster Tycoon 2#Discussion from WT:VG. --Izno (talk) 22:10, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Sega Genesis - European launch again[edit]

I opened a thread last June concerning the Sega Genesis's European launch in the "Launch" section which isn't in accordance to the reference given, and the European release date is unreferenced throughout the article. However, the thread seems to have no response from any other editors. Any input from anyone is appreciated at Talk:Sega Genesis#European launch. Thanks. – Hounder4 23:36, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Tokyo Dark[edit]

Isn't it about time that we give Tokyo Dark its own article now that a release date has been announced for it? Neverrainy (talk) 01:50, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

I did a quick google search, and there's enough reliable sources covering it to warrant an article, so it could be done if someone wanted to do it. Sergecross73 msg me 02:28, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
Just DO IT! :D Ben · Salvidrim!  02:39, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
The proper place for a request such as this would be WP:VG/R (or much preferably, creating it yourself, as there is a big backlog).ZXCVBNM (TALK) 13:40, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes, probably the latter option. WP:VG/R is a great idea in theory, but the fact of the matter is, most of us WP:VG mainstays are already busy writing our own articles, so it seems like few of the requests ever get done. Not that I'm blaming anyone - I'm the same way, and it's to be expected since we're all just volunteers here. This does look like the type of game I'd have some interest in...but it appears to be PC/Mac only, right? Unless its a cancelled video game, I usually only write game articles that I hope to play some day. And I don't do PC gaming, so I'm unlikely to do this one... Sergecross73 msg me 13:55, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

New Articles (11 August to 18 August)[edit]

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Salavat (talk) 07:55, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Draft:Hellblade_Senua's_Sacrifice looks like it is deliberately a translation and needs to be moved to es.WP given that we have a fairly well-developed article at Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice. Not exactly sure who I can ping about that though. --Izno (talk) 13:50, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Vandlism on the Mafia III article[edit]

There is a lot of vandalism done to the Mafia III article made by MySuperBelt85 who is sockpuppeting by using IP accounts, I have reported his IPs to be blocked so many times but he keeps coming back with new IPs and protecting the article for an amount of time won't help since he will continue to vandlise the article once the protection ends. I have requested the article to be indefinite semi protected so he can't continue to vandlise the article by no one has protected the article. This user is getting annoying, can anyone help? TheDeviantPro (talk) 12:35, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Article is now protected for three months, although he will return and continue to vandlise the article when it gets unprotected. TheDeviantPro (talk) 13:01, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
That should greatly cut down on it, but if you report it to my "Vandalism" section of my talk page I'll take care of any further disruption too. Sergecross73 msg me 14:26, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. TheDeviantPro (talk) 14:37, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

COI request at Morpheus[edit]

There is a COI request at Talk:Morpheus (1998 video game) awaiting review. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 21:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

The vandalism at Grand Theft Auto V returns[edit]

As a vandal fighter, I would like to request assistance fighting the vandalism at this article. The article has just come off 1-year protection. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 03:59, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Page has been indeffed. Thanks Drmies! jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 03:42, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Reliable sources for edits at Star Wars: Rogue Squadron[edit]

User:LukA YJK has added this section about fan mods based on what I believe are unreliable sources, original research and is non-notable content. The sources are:

  • [1]: A WordPress site
  • [2]: A fan site that allows users to download the editor tools that the section talks about
  • [3]: A Tripod.com site that redirects to a WordPress site
  • [4]: A "news" article authored by the same wiki editor adding this section
  • [5]: An article hosted on a private fan website

I have removed the section once but the content has been added back with a note saying that we need to discuss before removal. Fair enough, so here we are! Thoughts? --TorsodogTalk 15:36, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

I've reverted and opened a discussion at the article. -- ferret (talk) 15:42, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
Dear colleagues, the discussion is ongoing. However to sum up all conversations today: 1) I see it as an exceptional situation where primary sources can (and should) be used 2) We can omit the parts which do not have direct references i.e. release of the first player profile editor 3) We can refer to YouTube videos showing the use and effect of the tools as a reference for backing up the sentence about the released modification tools. Does it makes sense?LukA YJK (talk) 21:32, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Sorting video game terms[edit]

I saw a category overlap of Category:Video game gameplay and Category:Video game terminology where a large number of articles were in both categories despite terminology seeming like it should be a subcategory of gameplay. After all, terms are simply ways to describe gameplay elements. I decided to be WP:BOLD and remove the gameplay category from a number of articles, but I decided to ask whether people support my reasoning before continuing further, as I'm not sure whether there's some hidden reason they should be in both.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 00:20, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

I think two terminology cats would be better, Video game terminology with a subcat of Video game gameplay terminology A single cat would be an unspecific hotchpotch.- X201 (talk) 07:27, 21 August 2017 (UTC)