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November 17

Cory Markum

Is Cory Markum notable. MagicalPrince863 (talk) 01:35, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

MagicalPrince863, whoever Cory Markum might be, here, in this discussion thread, present the URLs of what you consider to be the best three web pages about them. Each of the three must be reliable and should describe or discuss Markum in depth. -- Hoary (talk) 01:54, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

If you need to ask if someone is notable, the answer is likely to be no. The only source that I could find is here, which is definitely not WP:GNG territory.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:20, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Page mover/swapper needed here!

Whoever page mover and swapper you are, please help close the move on Talk:Cancer Minor (constellation). 112.120.56.105 (talk) 07:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done Tollens (talk) 07:03, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Why my edits are getting removed?

Please help me understand the reason behind my contributions being undone. Kashley79 (talk) 13:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

@Kashley79: Assuming you're referring to Eleanor McEvoy, I will say that this revision is justifiably removed. Wikipedia is not a platform for promotion, and phrases like [...] has sprinkled his magic on Eleanor McEvoy's enchanting song are inappropriate. The other things are minor but potentially annoying to other editors without investigating any further. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 13:13, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

@Kashley79 People have left some helpful (if generic) messages on your talk page in an attempt to let you know why your contributions are being undone. Have you read them? ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 15:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Oldest article with only one editor?

I was wondering what the oldest (mainspace) article is with only one editor, when I realized I don't even know how to get a list of the the articles with only one editor at all... Ideas? Naraht (talk) 13:29, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Naraht, WP:RAQ would probably be the venue I'd ask about this. Folly Mox (talk) 14:05, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Asked there, got a response that it would require an almost complete table scan of the 1.2B table of edits and may not even give the right answer due to the spottiness of edits kept in the first year. Consider the request dropped.Naraht (talk) 18:23, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Good idea. It would probably have been about a village in some remote corner of the world, population 73, where nothing ever happened, ever. Or a footballer who played once for a team which managed to get into League 4 for one season. Or a species of minute sea snail, discovered in 1981 and noticed by one scientific journal in 1995. And that's assuming that it didn't contain duplicate words like 'the the', in which case the grammar gnomes would have been swarming all over it, and then there's the :categories obsessives, and and and - such an article just seems unlikely to be of surpassing interest. MinorProphet (talk) 01:03, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

G11 an extremely stale user sandbox?

Hi, and hope you're well. Does User:Gurudev Bapji/sandbox qualify for WP:G11? Thanks in advanced! Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 15:04, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

If I found that tagged for G11, I would decline it. Several factors that would go into my decision include:

• The draft is in a user sandbox, not main space, and not even draft space. I give more leeway to userspace drafts, thought will still delete blatant advertising no matter where it is found.
• The subject of the draft is deceased. I feel G11 is less applicable to deceased individuals and defunct companies than to living persons and companies that are still in existence. That said, G11 can still apply to deceased individuals where living persons still have a financial/emotional/whatever stake in promoting them.
• The draft doesn't read to me as exclusively and unambiguously promotional. It's obviously written by an adherent of the faith the subject founded, and would need heavy editing to be neutral enough for mainspace, but I do think there are usable parts of the draft if someone was inclined to write an actual article about this person.
• This particular draft is about a spiritual leader. There is a mainspace article about the denomination he founded. It seems to me that the mainspace article about the denomination is a slightly more useful vehicle for promotion than a userspace draft. This seems like something to keep an eye on - the mainspace article is orange tagged for potentially being written by someone with a COI, having neutrality problems, and needing secondary sources. If this draft were to appear in mainspace I may have concerns about a burgeoning walled garden written by people with a COI on this topic, but as long as it's just hanging out in userspace I don't think it's an issue YET.
• I do see that the account that created that userspace draft is blocked for sock puppetry. If this were tagged for G5, I think it would be more likely to be deleted than under G11.
• The page view analysis indicates that, before yesterday, this was getting less than one view a day. If this is a vehicle for promotion, it's not a very successful one.

Overall, my assessment of this is mostly harmless. I would decline a G11, and not bother with a G5. I'm not interested enough in diving down this particular rabbit hole to adopt the article and try to research and rewrite it. I would just ignore it. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 15:51, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Gurudev Bapji is blocked indefinitely. Bazza (talk) 15:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, as I noted in my response above. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:07, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

I had a feeling something like it applied and just wanted to make sure. Thanks for the thorough response! Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 16:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Window Dressers

Somone named Johnny Lamberti continues to add his name under notable Window Dressers which is a fault statement. He is an unknown and only tried to add his name for his own monetary purposes. He is not notable, famous or has nothing to do with window dressers. Please look into this further and stop him from adding his name to under Notable Window Dressers. Tinkerbell4444 (talk) 15:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Courtesy link: Window dresser.

I took a look, and I see it's been added and removed a few times this month, along with someone trying to add "and FAMOUS" to the section title, but I don't think the level of disruption is high enough for page protection. However, if the issues keep up, feel free to request semi-protection of the page. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:13, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Moreover, I feel like that article has succumbed to a common issue, where the list of examples is longer than the rest of the article. Unseen character is another article that has long had that issue. Perhaps we should consider spinning the examples off into a List of notable window dressers. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Most of the entries on that list are for people who aren't notable (e.g. Diane Arbus's father) or who are notable but not for being a window dresser ( e.g. Armani, Bailey, Barr). Someone with more time and patience than me needs to go through the list and trim it ruthlessly. Maproom (talk) 16:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

List of unseen characters had around 600 examples when it was redirected in 2007. Unseen character only has around 30 examples. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:38, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter I've opened a discussion on Talk:Unseen_character#Spin_off_the_examples?. I will correct you though; the version that was redirected after the 2009 AFD only included 2 examples. The version that was deleted in 2007 after the second AFD for that article had around 600 examples and approximately zero sources. The first AFD in 2006 resulted in a keep, and that version was very similar to what was deleted a year later. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 17:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

I said "in 2007". PrimeHunter (talk) 18:46, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Right, but it wasn't redirected in 2007, it was deleted then. (The history was restored during the 2009 AFD). ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 19:07, 17 November 2023 (UTC) Not that this is that important

Removing infobox map

Does anyone know how to suppress the appearance of the map at Protector Shoal? It is not really good. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:23, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: |mapframe=no. It's not documented but I looked at the code of {{Infobox seamount}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus, if you click on the "expand" box on the map it expands to show the location off the coast of South America toward Antartica, so the map is quite useful. StarryGrandma (talk) 19:40, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

"Thank" error

I receive an error when attempting to send thanks for the edit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Thanks/1184320747 . When I click on that button the error is " [1bf58c78-5069-4ae2-a993-5a96d846dd51] 2023-11-17 19:30:16: Fatal exception of type "Error" " . TOA The owner of all ☑️ 19:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

I doubt if anybody here can help much - I suggest asking at WP:VPT. ColinFine (talk) 19:55, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

@The owner of all: Special:Diff/1184320747 is an edit by an IP (unregistered user). IP edits cannot be thanked since IP addresses can change and be shared. Where did you see a link to make the thanks? It shouldn't be there and I don't see it in the diff, page history or user contributions. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

harv error

Could you please tell me what 'harv-error' is or means? Someone already told me, it is an automatically generated tag; the tag appeared on this edit, 7 Nov 2023 (Hamas), an edit still troubling me. The editor who made that edit could not tell me what 'harv-error' is; a helpful colleague adviced me to look on the list on page Special:Tags, but on that page, 'harv-error' is one of the very few tags that is not being explained at all. --Corriebertus (talk) 22:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

It has to do with formatting citations. On Wikipedia, we sometimes use 'Harvard-style short citations' for when we want to cite a given work inline, but don't want to repeat the full citation over and over, so we generally put the text we're referencing in one place, and then have multiple short citations that can point to different pages in that source, for example. That error just crops up when someone writes a short citation that doesn't point to a source document provided elsewhere in the article, or when someone accidentally changes the article so that existing short citations can't find the document they're pointing to anymore. See Wikipedia:Citing sources and Template:Harvard citations. I hope that makes sense. :) Remsense聊 22:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Corriebertus, you can see exactly how this particular error was corrected here: the error was caused by an editor adding a full citation with the author's name in a single parameter, then later someone tried to use {{sfn}} on it, only using the author's surname. Even little things like a misparameterised value can cause these templates to emit an error. Folly Mox (talk) 00:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you! --Corriebertus (talk) 12:58, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

The general bias of Wikipedia to the left

I asked this question from Jimmy Wales when I got an email from him to renew my subscription to Wikipedia. I got a generic answer from Sandra Hust that says that Wikipedia strives to be neutral in the information that is put out. The article referred me to this page to follow up on my question. If this is not the right place, please direct me to the right place. Wikipedia is a very valuable source of information and I would like to contribute to you but I would like a satisfactory answer to my question. Here is what I wrote to Jimmy Wales:

Wikipedia does a valuable service in providing free encyclopedic information to the public. But help me understand why your editors are so biased to the left. You claim to be neutral in your editing but like NPR this is clearly not so. Just look at your description of the democratic congressman and senators compared to the republican ones. As an example, Marjorie Taylor Greene is referred to as a far-right congresswoman with a lot of negative comments, but AOC is referred to as progressive with a lot of positive comments. Tell me whether any of the democratic congressmen or senators are referred to as far-left.

Harris

174.20.20.235 (talk) 23:33, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Read Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Wikipedia does not aspire to be 'neutral' with regard to some imaginary absolute standard, and nor does it define 'neutrality' as sitting on some imaginary centre point between the two major political parties of a particular country. Instead, it attempts to represent, fairly, the balance of opinions in relevant published sources. Accordingly, if the consensus amongst those qualified to judge is that the US congress and/or senate contains far-right representatives, but no far-left ones, Wikipedia is going to say the same thing. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:04, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Harris, please see Overton window. Wikipedia may appear biased to the left from an American point of view, because the US is biased to the right from a whole world point of view. That's likely the disjoint you're noticing. Folly Mox (talk) 00:44, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn't even characterize it as an America vs. World Average dichotomy, because there are plenty of media environments/averages of such for given countries that are pulled far to the right, to whatever degree we can use that as an axis.

I would just point to what was said above to the OP: if Wikipedia has a certain bias, the lion's share of the reason for that is because the body of what we broadly deem to be reliable sources has that bias. And, frankly, I doubt you would be able to point out a flaw in those criteria themselves, because they have comparatively little to do with ideology as you're defining it.

Go back to the university publishing houses and take it up with them I guess, because we are intentionally not the source for these issues, and will not be able to "fix" them. Or donate to a wiki that only writes off of sources you deem to be sufficiently neutral. It is very unseemly to whine about donations you've made after you've made them, as if the purpose for you making them was to grant a ticket for the subsequent whining. Remsense聊 00:53, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Harris. Check out the Signpost from 6 November 2023 and the article How English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades which contains a lengthy overview of academic research on the subject. Buster7 (talk) 02:33, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

November 18

Creating a reference.

How to create a reference to https://theskylive.com/locationpicker?back_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheskylive.com%2Fsky%2Fstars%2Fchi2-fornacis-star? 117daveawesome (talk) 02:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Generally, you want to cite a static piece of information. What information are you trying to cite exactly? You've linked an input form, are you trying to cite a reference for the properties of that specific star as viewed from a specific location? Remsense聊 02:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Just use that one. -> https://theskylive.com/sky/stars/chi2-fornacis-star 117daveawesome (talk) 02:23, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Sure thing! I think you might format a reference like this:

<ref>{{Cite web |title=χ2 Fornacis |url=https://theskylive.com/sky/stars/chi2-fornacis-star |access-date=2023-11-18 |website=The Sky Live}}</ref> Remsense聊 02:26, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! 117daveawesome (talk) 02:29, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Do you think you should add a pronounciation of Sodium?

I sincerely want to get some answer from you if you are interested in. If it is approved, I should give the way to pronounce it. 2405:4802:64A8:2D40:C19F:C86:76EB:92C7 (talk) 03:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

It is pronounced as Soo-DEE-em.

It is suggested as above. You should check it and notify me when you need some changes. 2405:4802:64A8:2D40:C19F:C86:76EB:92C7 (talk) 03:06, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi there! Dictionary.com disagrees with you. GoingBatty (talk) 03:12, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

We'd also be more likely to write the pronunciation as /ˈsoʊdiəm/ . —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:13, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

So it's time for you to add it. 2405:4802:64A8:2D40:C19F:C86:76EB:92C7 (talk) 03:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

That is not going to happen because reliable sources report that the first syllable has the accent (stress). I live in the United States which has the largest number of native native English language speakers in the world, and your favored pronunciation is unknown here. Cullen328 (talk) 03:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Add as a suggestion of User:Tenryuu 2405:4802:64A8:2D40:C19F:C86:76EB:92C7 (talk) 04:21, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I mean to add him, not me. 2405:4802:64A8:2D40:C19F:C86:76EB:92C7 (talk) 04:21, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

No. Bring it up at Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements and see if you get consensus. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:50, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

So you'd like Tenryuu to add his pronunciation of the word (which is more or less the same as Cullen328's, and indeed mine, and does not stress the second syllable)? -- Hoary (talk) 08:18, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes 2001:EE0:4BCC:9510:C19F:C86:76EB:92C7 (talk) 10:45, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

As Edmund Clerihew Bentley put it so wisely:

Sir Humphrey Davy
Abominated gravy.
He lived in the odium
Of having discovered Sodium.
This suggests that it should rhyme with odium.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:47, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Sodium not odium. 2001:EE0:4BCC:9510:C19F:C86:76EB:92C7 (talk) 11:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I would want everyone who has a will to add a pronunciation. 2001:EE0:4BCC:9510:C19F:C86:76EB:92C7 (talk) 11:43, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Just go to wikt:sodium if you want to see the pronunciations for it. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:12, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Add to the main article man. 2001:EE0:4BC4:8090:C19F:C86:76EB:92C7 (talk) 04:02, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Submission of Georgios Dritsakos

I need help. I just submitted the draft of description of George Dritsakos before it transferred to the articles to be created. 108.21.67.83 (talk) 03:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I believe that you're asking about Draft:Georgios Dritsakos (Georgios, not George). But what help do you want? -- Hoary (talk) 05:55, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

He's the retired Lieutenant General of the Hellenic Air Force. And the former Adjutant to His Excellency the President of the Hellenic Republic Constantinos Stephanopoulos. 108.21.67.83 (talk) 14:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

So, add those facts to the Draft, with the appropriate citations to Reliable sources for them. Just because a Draft is awaiting review doesn't mean it can't still be improved before that review is performed. It's not an exam, and nobody said "Stop writing now" when it was submitted.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if the draft was declined again, because there's nothing in it that suggests to me he is a Notable person in the Wikipedia meaning of the term (see linked essay). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.241.161.192 (talk) 18:02, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Arek Smith

Is Arek Smith notable. MagicalPrince863 (talk) 04:05, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, MagicalPrince863. Based on my Google and Google News searches, I see no evidence that a person with that name is notable. But perhaps I missed something. Why do you think that this person might be notable? Cullen328 (talk) 04:34, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

MagicalPrince863, you very recently asked the identical question about some fellow named Cory Markum. You got responses. Any time you wonder if someone is notable, apply one or other of those responses. (If you care to apply mine, you won't simply ask whether XYZ is notable; you'll instead ask if [source 1], [source 2], and [source 3] are enough to show that XYZ is notable.) -- Hoary (talk) 05:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Fix the Chinese Hockey Player Liu Chunhua

Liu Chunhua (ice hockey), can you fix it because I used to put in the pinyin as well as in Chinese name in Mandarin. 108.21.67.83 (talk) 04:58, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

 Fixed Liu Chunhua (ice hockey). GoingBatty (talk) 05:09, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Citing one source via another

X is a reliable source, which I've seen. On one of its pages, the writer cites something that he says appears on a certain page of Y (by a different author), which I haven't seen but which comes from a respected publisher. I want to cite that "something". In a footnote/endnote (not a Vancouver-style reference), and in a template-less world, I'd could write "X, citing Y", or I could write "Y, as cited by X". But here, with Vancouver, what's the recommended method (or what are the recommended methods), using the appropriate CS1 template(s)?

I'm sure that this is explained on some page somewhere. Just point me to it. -- Hoary (talk) 07:57, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

The guidance is at WP:SWYGT. There's no special template parameters, although some have been proposed in the archives of Help talk:Citation Style 1 (most search hits are just editors explaining what they do personally in these cases). Basically just call two citation templates backy-back within the same pair of ref tags, separated by some words indicating one is citing the other. Folly Mox (talk) 08:38, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I think I might have been a little confused by the introduction of "Vancouver" into this question. If it's "X citing Y" within shortened footnotes you're after, the best I've managed is "{{harvnb}}, cited in / citing {{harvnb}}" within a pair of ref tags. {{sfnmp}} doesn't handle that kind of nesting. Template:R might. It's weird. Folly Mox (talk) 08:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Folly Mox. Sorry I phrased the question rather poorly; but your first response answered the question that I had in mind. I did what you suggested, and tucked the combination into a footnote; the result is a bit awkward, but I hope not too bad. -- Hoary (talk) 09:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

These days, "X is a reliable source" is a surprising statement until one reads the context. Maproom (talk) 10:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

😁 Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:14, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Hoary likes this. 11:34, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I've seen the portmanteau Xwitter, which to me is clearer. Folly Mox (talk) 15:27, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

What is the common word for a tweet these days? Is there an officially recommended one? Do Xitters xit? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:56, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Depends if one is using the Chinese pronunciation. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.241.161.192 (talk) 21:17, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

A Xitter may xit, but Xitters xeunt. Folly Mox (talk) 05:20, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

...latin grammar? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:28, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I've used forms like {{sfn|Bell|1938|ps=: quoted by {{harvnb|Hinkley|1979|p=7}}}} in the past and they worked fine with all links functional. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:04, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Recovering a previous account

I had an account under the user name NickPretzel, but it was linked to an email address I no longer have access to. It's there any way to recover the account, to merge it with this one? I last accessed the account around 2015 some time. I'm sure you'll find there's been no activity on that account for quite some time.

Please don't hesitate to ask any questions you require to confirm that the account really did belong to me. However, if there isn't any way to do it, the thing I'll miss most is my sandbox, especially as I'm having trouble accessing my current one.

Thanks you for your help

Nick Pretzel

SaintIX (talk) 10:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

@SaintIX: Unfortunately there's no way to recover access to an account when you don't have access to the email address, and there's no mechanism to merge accounts even if it could be recovered. If it helps at all, your old sandbox was located at User:NickPretzel/sandbox, and while your new account doesn't have any existing sandboxes, a link to a blank one is User:SaintIX/sandbox. Tollens (talk) 11:02, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks for your swift reply. Shame, but not so serious. I did try User:SaintIX/sandbox in the search box, but nothing happened. I'll try the link from here/in my browser. I guess it doesn't work in the mobile app. Thanks again, take care

SaintIX (talk) 11:27, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

My Watchlist has changed

User talk pages are no longer being shown on my Watchlist. I need to see them to communicate with recipients of the Editor of the Week award. Thank you Buster7 (talk) 12:45, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I just now notice that this request to the Help Desk also Does Not show on my Watchlist. I need to see My most recent activity history to stay on top of what I do, Buster7 (talk) 12:50, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Did the changes by you option in the watchlist filter get unselected? Or some other filters get flipped? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:55, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I dont understand your answer. Where is the "changes by you" option and where is the filter. I'm an old geezer, unable to fix anything I break. Any assistance you can provide is appreciated. Buster7 (talk) 13:09, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

When I just gave FakeScientist8000 the EotW award about half an hour ago shouldn't his talk page get added to my Watchlist. They always have in the past! I notice that the star on his talk page is not bolded. I could engage it now butg i never had to do that before. Buster7 (talk) 13:18, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

For instance...right now I clicked the star at the top of this page and I know I will now see this page on my watchlist so I can monitor this discussion. Will I have to do that everywhere I go....going forward? Buster7 (talk) 13:22, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

There are some options for automatically adding pages to your watchlist at Special:Preferences. Not sure why the behavior you had been seeing changed. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Archiving my talk page

In the page where it explains how to archive a user's talk page i saw that the archive number should be a whole number, since 0 is a whole number, can i use it? Sangsangaplaz (talk) 12:58, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Sangsangaplaz where does it say that? According to Whole number the meaning is ambiguous, so you should just do a positive integer to be safe. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 14:00, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, i did '1' just to be safe Sangsangaplaz (talk) 14:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

@Sangsangaplaz: Some templates such as {{Talk header}} assume that the first archive will be numbered 1. Although, probably, there are workarounds, everything will work more smoothly for you if you stick to the standard numbering. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

thank you for the reply. I just used '1' instead. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 14:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Election infobox

I do not understand the election infobox.

On this page, Kuomintang gets rendered as "Kuomintang", while Democratic Progressive Party gets rendered as DPP. In the top infobox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Taiwanese_local_elections

However, in source code, there is party1 = Kuomintang and party1 = party2 = Democratic Progressive Party.

The infobox help says just "party1 - Political Party using Political party shortname templates. The number can be changed up to nine to display different Parties at the same time.", but I don't see shortname template used in either.

Both KMT and DPP are exactly the same here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module:Political_party/D

and here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module:Political_party/K

Wait... let me see what the abbrev thing does.

{ {Party abbrev|Kuomintang} } -> KMT

{ {Party abbrev|Democratic Progressive Party} } -> DPP

Now it's both correct! What is wrong on the 2022 taiwanese election then? Why is it still showing "Kuomintang"?

--- Running 13:59, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Well. When I do this - a super simplified version

{ {Infobox election | party1 = Kuomintang | party2 = Democratic Progressive Party } }

I get this

Help desk

Party Kuomintang DPP

It's still treated differently for some reason...?

ah, the infobox uses _shortname_...? I ... guess...? Maybe? --- Running 14:06, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

@Running: Yes. The relevant lines in the data modules:

	["Kuomintang"] = {abbrev = "KMT", color = "#000099", shortname = "Kuomintang",},
	["Democratic Progressive Party"] = {abbrev = "DPP", color = "#1B9431", shortname = "",},
	["Taiwan People's Party"] = {abbrev = "TPP", color = "#28C7C7", shortname = "",},

The infobox prefers shortname if it's defined since the infobox field has room for more than an abbreviation but not a long name like "Taiwan People's Party. I see nothing wrong. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:35, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. There is no problem per se, I just wanted to understand what is going on. Thanks. - Running 06:56, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Editing my watchlist?

The "edit your watchlist" button on my watchlist display page does not take me anywhere any more. Am I missing something? Is the system trying to force me to one of the newer, crappier interfaces? --Orange Mike | Talk 17:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

What skin are you on? I'm using Vector 2022 and the closest things I have are "View and edit wachlist" and "Edit raw watchlist". —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:09, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Monobook. The button shows a pencil icon and the text "Edit your list of watched pages". --Orange Mike | Talk 18:21, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I switched to Monobook and I'm seeing the same thing (Imgur) at Special:Watchlist with the links without any icons. Are you trying to get to Special:EditWatchlist? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:27, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, but the link Special:Watchlist doesn't work for me. Does it work for you? --Orange Mike | Talk 18:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I've no trouble accessing it from the link in your comment. You might need to give more details to the folks over at WP:VPT. In the meantime, I suppose you could manually append Special:EditWatchlist after /wiki/ in your address bar to get to editing your watchlist. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

"The maximum request time of 60 seconds was exceeded." --Orange Mike | Talk 18:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Articles written by AI

2601:646:281:3EC0:FBCE:45D9:FA82:2A43 (talk) 18:44, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Does wikipedia have a policy on articles written by artificial intelligence bots? 2601:646:281:3EC0:FBCE:45D9:FA82:2A43 (talk) 18:45, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

See WP:RSPCHATGPT. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 19:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

All your base are belong to us. MinorProphet (talk) 01:11, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Can I create a biography

Help Dhayanidhiak (talk) 21:00, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

No, not unless you meet WP:Notability guidelines. Wikipedia isn't a social media site. This is an encyclopedia. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:06, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

@Dhayanidhiak: Read the advice at WP:AUTO. It is strongly discouraged to write about yourself. RudolfRed (talk) 21:27, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

The OP said they wanted to create a biography, not an autobiography. Hogyn Lleol (talk) 17:07, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, you can, but it's harder than performing a triple salchow or flying a helicopter. MinorProphet (talk) 01:15, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Martineau family

Ref number 82 is in red - please fix. - I get confused. thanks 1.123.200.112 (talk) 21:28, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Fixed the typo in November. RudolfRed (talk) 21:44, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Capitalize X Minister in title for Categories by country?

Should the M be capitalized in Category:Foreign Ministers of Germany‎ or Category:Foreign ministers of Gabon. The categories are very inconsistent. Note, this also affects the equivalent categories for Defense Minister/minister.Naraht (talk) 21:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Naraht, I would ask at WT:CFD as the inconsistency suggests that the answer is not obvious. TSventon (talk) 03:11, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Martineau family

I think the ref number 23 - the PUBLISHER - is all wrong. Please fix . thanks. again 1.123.200.112 (talk) 22:24, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

According to The London Gazette, the publisher is TSO or The Stationary Office. You can fix it yourself. Please also read WP:OVERCITE. RudolfRed (talk) 22:38, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Actually, that is the current publisher. I am not sure who the publisher in 1862 was. RudolfRed (talk) 22:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Why bother trying to name the publisher, when you can use {{London Gazette}} like this:

{{London Gazette|issue=22662|date=12 September 1862|page=4458|quote=...have, hold and enjoy the same title as if their father had succeeded to the dignity of Baron...}}

to generate this:

"No. 22662". The London Gazette. 12 September 1862. p. 4458. ...have, hold and enjoy the same title as if their father had succeeded to the dignity of Baron...

Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 23:21, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Honours

Would you help me put honours on the "Federica Pellegrini" page? There are really too many, and I'm in trouble. You can find them here: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federica_Pellegrini. JackkBrown (talk) 23:48, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: The best place to ask for help with any article is the article's talk page: Talk:Federica Pellegrini. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 00:54, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

November 19

Eχιδνα

On the "Echidna (mythology)" page, when I click on the Greek word "Eχιδνα" the page I am presented with is as follows, no results: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%9C%CF%87%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%BD%CE%B1. JackkBrown (talk) 03:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

For me, it redirects to the correct page after a brief pause. RudolfRed (talk) 03:58, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I had the same issue JackkBrown did, so I changed how the wiktionary link was formatted. RudolfRed, since you saw the intended link target, can you confirm I've pointed the link to the correct wiktionary page? Folly Mox (talk) 05:16, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm not RudolfRed, but yes, both links wind up on the same Wiktionary page. Deor (talk) 14:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Question about non free images

If someone has a life sentence in prison can you use a reduced resolution non-free image for their biography article? A friend of mine asked this question and got the answer no, you can't, but looking at more discussions it seems ambiguous. For example, Terry Nichols, a high profile, decent quality article, uses a non-free image despite the fact Nichols is still alive, and so do dozens of other articles of prisoners who are not dead but have life in prison. However, the upload wizard only states if the person is dead. PARAKANYAA (talk) 03:35, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

The answer is probably "it depends". Who is the person and what photo are you trying to use? WP:MCQ is a good place to ask about copyright and WP:NFCC questions. RudolfRed (talk) 04:02, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@PARAKANYAA: You might look at the description pages of the Terry Nichols image and the "dozens of others" you found. Each such image should have a detailed justification on its description page. If you can create an equivalent detailed justification for your case, you can upload the image. You may need to use the manual upload procedure, or upload using the wizard and then edit the description page. If you cannot provide a detailed justification that addresses all of the non-free criteria, then you cannot upload the image. -Arch dude (talk) 17:17, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Martineau family

Ref number 109 is in red - I am always confused. Please fix. I cannot. Thanks 175.38.42.62 (talk) 04:12, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

 Fixed! GoingBatty (talk) 04:29, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello. Could you possibly either (A) add a new request to an existing thread or (B) put a new request into a new thread with a new (different) title? (Or would this confuse you?) -- Hoary (talk) 08:39, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

How to write a new LPW Living Person Wiki

Pls send me complete link and method to start writing about a living person, on wikipedia. Create new page ManojModani (talk) 04:43, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, ManojModani. First, read Your first article. Then read the Notability guideline for people. Then, read the critically important policy on Biographies of living people. If you are the person in question, read about how writing an autobiography is strongly discouraged. Cullen328 (talk) 05:00, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. ManojModani (talk) 05:24, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@User:Tenryuu, User:Hoary, User:Folly Mox, and more volunteers, would you mind replacing the main page of WikiLeaks please?

Can you update the screenshot of WikiLeaks please as of this day to reflect some major changes in its portal? 2001:EE0:4BC4:C1D0:8C60:E4FE:CDA3:8239 (talk) 10:13, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't see any screenshots in that article – can you point more specifically to what you're referring to? Tollens (talk) 10:16, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@Tollens, you can check the screenshot of the home page of WikiLeaks, which was posted so oldly, in 2011. 2001:EE0:4BC4:C1D0:8C60:E4FE:CDA3:8239 (talk) 10:20, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Ah, found it – to anyone else, it's hidden in the infobox underneath the logo. Tollens (talk) 10:21, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@Tollens, so anyone, including you, should have an ability to update it. As I am an anonymous editor, I must wait for 4 days to change the content in case I was logged in. 2001:EE0:4BC4:C1D0:8C60:E4FE:CDA3:8239 (talk) 10:24, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Yep, working on it. Tollens (talk) 10:25, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Ok. Great to see you being active in this community. 2001:EE0:4BC4:C1D0:C19F:C86:76EB:92C7 (talk) 10:29, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done Tollens (talk) 10:36, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@Tollens, I also found the screenshot illustrating the home page of WikiBooks which is now old, updated in 2009. 2001:EE0:4BC4:C1D0:C19F:C86:76EB:92C7 (talk) 10:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

For some reason the image in the center of the page isn't loading on my computer so I'll have to leave that one to someone else. Tollens (talk) 10:54, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

My only device is my phone, so I'm probably not the best person to update the screenshot. Folly Mox (talk) 15:50, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Well, I updated it anyway. I did a pretty bad job and typoed the filename. If anyone else feels like improving on this, please go ahead. Folly Mox (talk) 02:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm tanoli and I have read many historic books of tanoli and ghilji and it confirmed that tanoli is tano khail which is ghilji tribe

I'm tanoli and I have read many historic books of tanoli and ghilji and it confirmed that tanoli is tano khail which is ghilji tribe 39.62.188.14 (talk) 10:27, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

If you have a suggestion for an article, then please go to that article's talk page and make the suggestion there. Be sure to cite one or more specific sources for each specific suggestion: vaguely alluding to "many historic books" won't be adequate. -- Hoary (talk) 12:04, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Fixing a reference

I have a reference to fix on Zeta² Librae. Can anyone help me? 117daveawesome (talk) 13:53, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@117daveawesome:  Fixed by Ira Leviton. GoingBatty (talk) 16:58, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Spaghetti alla Nerano

On primo, how do I redirect users to the paragraph where primo is mentioned? JackkBrown (talk) 14:32, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown you could use [[Italian meal structure#Formal meal structure|Primo]]. Alternatively, you could divide the section on Formal meal structure into subsections (see the format of the section on Daytime meal structure) and then use [[Italian meal structure#Primo|Primo]]. TSventon (talk) 14:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@TSventon: done, thanks. JackkBrown (talk) 14:58, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Correct grammar for ellipses turned into semicolons

The New York Times, March 20, 1932, p. 7. Excerpts: "an artist specializing in advertising"; "studied at the National Academy of Design."; "member of the Highland Methodist Church."

I inserted the above reference into the article: Paul Martin (illustrator). I'd like to know if there is anything wrong with the grammar. It's an excerpt of a direct quote. Notes: 1. There is a skipped sentence or two between the words "advertising & studied", and "Design & member." Hence the two semicolons. 2. There is a period after the word "Design" because that word ends the sentence in the original NY Times text. 3. The words "an", "studied" & "member" were in lower case in the original text. Thanks. JimPercy (talk) 15:57, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I assume that this is about Paul Martin (illustrator), ref. 129. It is cited in support of the statement "The service was held at Highland (Ossining United) Methodist Church". I don't understand why you've chosen to quote the first two of those three phrases; but given that you have, separating them by semicolons seems fine. Maproom (talk) 16:40, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Correct on Ref. number. I only altered that last part for simplification purposes at this help desk. It more correctly reads:

Excerpts: "an artist specializing in advertising"; "studied at the National Academy of Design."; "Funeral services with be held Tuesday in the Highland Methodist Church." So, I reckon it all looks fine. Okay, thanks. PS: I quoted for its worthy detail (from a vintage source), as many would not take the time to search that newspaper. I realize that the quotation part could all be omitted. JimPercy (talk) 18:22, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Sara Marques

Advogada natural do Porto, especialista em direito de família e sucessões. Tirou o curso de direito na Universidade católica do Porto e frequentou mestrado em ciência política na Católica de Lisboa.

Viveu uns anos no Médio Oriente, onde foi membro do Board de um colégio IB, fundou uma marca de roupa e ficou conhecida por ter ficado como advogada de diversos investidores árabes em Portugal, na altura do boom de investimento em golden visa.

Recentemente fundou a página de Instagram designada Divórcio sem drama e é conhecida por ser uma advogada que combina simpatia e dureza, numa combinação pouco habitual. Moreira ramalho (talk) 17:33, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Translation:-

Lawyer born in Porto, specialized in family and succession law. She studied law at the Catholic University of Porto and attended a master's degree in political science at the Catholic University of Lisbon.

She lived for a few years in the Middle East, where she was a member of the Board of an IB college, founded a clothing brand and became known for having been a lawyer for several Arab investors in Portugal, at the time of the golden visa investment boom.

She recently founded the Instagram page called Divorce Without Drama and is known for being a lawyer who combines sympathy and toughness, in an unusual combination.

Moreira ramalho This is the English Wikipedia. Do you have a question about using Wikipedia? - Arjayay (talk) 17:38, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Rollback vs Twinkle

Are there differences between Twinkle and the Rollback user right, I have made some considerations about becoming a rollback (just not right now) and I have found twinkle to be finicky. Subariba (talk) 19:02, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

You might want to have a read of Wikipedia talk:Rollback#Purpose_of_rollback_right. The difference can be summarised fairly simply. Twinkle can be finicky, but it can be used for many things (restoring specific revisions, leaving warnings, nominating pages for deletion, and a lot more). Rollback does only one thing, and it does it better than anything else. That thing is described in the first sentence of the rollback page. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 19:24, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Is it rude to remove superfluous references?

This is something I often come across when looking for stubs to expand. Say for instance, there's an article on [random town] in Poland. The only text is "[random town] is a town in Poland", with a citation to "Encyclopedia of Polish towns", which is a source I cannot access. If I have a source that discusses [random town] in extensive detail, is it rude or distasteful to simply remove the now-redundant earlier reference, especially when the source is such a general one? Anonymous 19:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Absolutely not: sources are there to be useful. It's nice to have multiple independent references, but if a reference is particularly weak or redundant, replacing it is absolutely the right thing to do. See WP:OVERKILL for further thoughts and rules of thumb on this.
Specific to your example: an encyclopedia is a tertiary source, and secondary sources are pretty much always preferred to tertiary sources for WP:V purposes. However, ease of accessibility is not usually in itself a criterion to how strong or weak a given source is. Remsense聊 19:52, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@An anonymous username, not my real name: Not all sources need to be online and some may be behind a paywall which is fine. You should not remove a source just because you don't have access. Ask at WP:RX to see if someone else can access it for you. RudolfRed (talk) 20:03, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Two citations is hardly overkill in my opinion. RudolfRed (talk) 20:05, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I see that my answer is redundant, apologies. RudolfRed (talk) 20:07, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I would say if you cannot access a source it's hard for you to evaluate its usefulness... perhaps it doesn't go into a lot of depth (again, you don't know as you haven't seen it), but it might have futher citations which would be useful to future editors. Umimmak (talk) 20:44, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

"Agri Valley" or "Agri valley"? In the "Area of production" paragraph (at the end of the paragraph) of the "Peperone di Senise" page

Hi, is it correct to write "Agri Valley" or "Agri valley"? JackkBrown (talk) 20:43, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: All words in a proper name should be capitalized (with the typical exceptions: the, a, etc.), so "Agri Valley" is correct. Tollens (talk) 20:59, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Tollens, your response seems to assume that "Agri Valley" is a proper name, rather than that "Agri" is the proper name (of the valley). Neither position strikes me as very obviously either right or wrong. What does seem obvious to me is that the place for a question such as this is Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters, because that's where people who care deeply about such matters congregate. -- Hoary (talk) 22:43, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@Hoary: Certainly the matter could be taken there. I'm not sure how it could be interpreted in such a way that "valley" is not included in the name – if phrased as "Agri River valley" certainly it would then not be part of the name, but "Agri" could not, standing on its own, refer to the valley any more than "Superior" on its own refers to Lake Superior. Tollens (talk) 22:53, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

November 20

Citing author names

Dear helpers, if I may call you so with all repect due, I have recently been challenged in my habits of how I describe authors when using Template:Cite book, Template:Sfn, or Template:Harvnb. On 6 November 2023 the venerable Trappist the monk intervened on the article 1st Irish Parliament of King Charles I and changed "{{Cite book|last=Mountmorres |first=Hervey Redmond Morres, Viscount" to "{{Cite book|author=Lord Mountmorres". We discussed this edit on his talk page and he convinced me that books' authors should be cited more or less as they appear on the book's title page, hence "Lord Mountmorres". Perhaps it should have been just "Mountmorres" as he also tells me to omit honoraria. This sometimes leads to results that might surprise. For example George Edward Cokayne appears as G. E. C. on the title pages of his many publications. He should therefore be cited as "G. E. C." and ranked under G rather than under C. Sometimes the author name is found at the end of a prefatory section, e.g. Carte's The Life of James Duke of Ormond has no author on its title page but "Tho. Carte" appears at the end of the dedication. I think it might be allowed to use this. Diaries often have the author's name in the title whereas an editor appears on the title page, e.g. Philippe de Courcillon appears in the title of his work Journal du Marquis de Dangeau as he also is Marquess of Dangeau. This simplifies to "Dangeau" as we omit honoraria. Similarly "Sir James Balfour Paul Lord Lyon King of Arms" reduces to "Paul, James Balfour", stripping the honoraria before and after his name. Sometimes I feel that we lose information when we strip in this way. We might expose ourselves to confusions with another James Paul who is not a Sir. Sometimes I do not know what to do when there is no author on the title page, e.g. Mémoires de la vie du comte de Grammont (1713), which I left under "Antoine Hamilton", even if the title page does not name him. I cite later editions where his name appears. See the article Antoine Hamilton where I have updated the source list according to these instructions. I should of course change author names in many other articles where I have put them wrongly.

Trappist the monk was quite sure of what he said but could not cite a guideline or Wikipedia instruction for it. Since then I found the excellent text WP:WikiProject Military history/Academy/Citations and references, which prescribes to use the title page saying: "Identifying the author of a work is essential for locating the work, and for identifying credibility. In all cases use the byline of the work, or the title page of the book." Unluckily this is not a Wikipedia guideline. Perhaps "use the byline or the title page" could be added in WP:CITE. It might have prevented me from taking unallowed liberties with author names.

Another change I probably need to make is to use "Cite encyclopedia" rather than "Cite web" for all the references to the Dictionary of Irish Biography, which I usually cite from the web page rather than from the print book.

With many thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 22:13, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@Johannes Schade: Hi there! Help talk:Citation Style 1‎ is the primary place to discuss these templates and their documentation. Trappist the monk is very active there. GoingBatty (talk) 22:32, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't know that WT:CS1 is the place to discuss the peculiarities of aristocratic naming conventions and how such names should be cited. One can cite such authors without using cs1|2 templates. I stand by my primary position that author-names in citations should reflect the names as given on the title page of the cited work and generally, honoraria should not be part of the name. That is not a hard-and-fast-rule (nothing on wikipedia is); hence my choice of 'Lord Mountmorres' instead of simply 'Mountmorres'.

Yes, {{cite encyclopedia}} for Dictionary of Irish Biography even for the online edition. I'm rather surprised that there isn't a {{cite Dictionary of Irish Biography}} template...

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:35, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Template code

Are there pages that list the code used to make templates like Template:Tree list or Template:Tree chart?
I would like to study them to make my own versions on my webserver.
Blocky44 (talk · contributions · sandbox) 03:01, 20 November 2023 (UTC)