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June 27

a / an

Why is it "an umbrella" but "a user"? FT2 ^{(Talk | email)}

Our article on a and an says this:

"some words starting with vowels may have a preceding a because they are pronounced as if beginning with an initial consonant. "Ewe" and "user" have a preceding a because they are pronounced with an initial y consonant sound."

— Matt Eason ^{(Talk • Contribs)} 02:21, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Such as an um... and a yewser. Y is the unwritten consontant Julia Rossi (talk) 06:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

For much the same reason we might say "an hour from now" rather than "a hour from now", despite h being a consonant. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 06:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

In other words, the choice of a or an is governed entirely by the pronunciation, not by the spelling. (Although there's a sort-of exception with some words starting with "h": some say "a hotel", but others prefer "an hotel", even if they aspirate the h.) -- JackofOz (talk) 13:26, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard "an hotel", but I say "an historic" (as in This is an historical phenomenon noticed first in Ancient Greece...) instead of "a historic". СПУТНИК^{CCC P} 22:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

"An hotel" is a little dated these days, but it still appears in old books and among old-timers. Some don't aspirate the h (sounds like "an otel"), but some do. Probably mainly a British phenomenon. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:32, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I find "an historic" an annoyance because people seem to use it in order to sound more formal or more educated or more standard, when in fact (at least in American English) it seems to me to be an archaic usage. Please, America: You don't call it an 'otel and you didn't study world 'istory, so use the fricking AN! Mitchell k dwyer (talk) 05:34, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm confused, Mitchell. You don't like "an historic", but you seem to be advocating "an hotel" and "an history". Have I misinterpreted your post? -- JackofOz (talk) 01:21, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

chanbara-go

I've occasionally heard that samurai cinema uses an artificial dialect. What's distinctive about it? (I don't understand enough Japanese to tell if the language in samurai movies is any different from that in modern settings.) Is it comparable to the rustic talk sometimes heard in Westerns? —Tamfang (talk) 04:00, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

You may get better luck asking over at WikiProject Japan. They do use an older form of Japanese, similar to what you'd hear if comparing Shakespeare to modern English: mostly understandable, but still unusual to the ear. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:17, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Hebrew

In Hebrew, are books opened from the opposite of English language books (i.e. with the spine on the right-hand side) since the script is written right to left? − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 06:20, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Certainly. The spine is on the right-hand side as you look at the cover, open the book to view the cover page, etc. -- Deborahjay (talk) 06:26, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

The same is true for Arabic (I even have some Arabic textbooks that are mostly in English, aside from the examples and exercises and such, but it also opens right-to-left). Adam Bishop (talk) 06:48, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you both. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 05:00, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Arabic for "network"?

What would the Arabic term be for "network," as in a computer network or telecommunications network? -- And, most key of all, would anyone mind transliterating that word into English or IPA for me? Thank you. I've been searching around the Internet without any luck. --Brasswatchman (talk) 07:17, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Did you check the network article? :) It points you to ar:شبكة, "shabaka" in English transliteration, and /ʃæbəkə/ in IPA. "Shabaka" is the usual word for electricity/telecommunications/computers etc, although it can also mean any kind of net, like a fishing net or a spiderweb. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:31, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Great! Thank you. Missed that in network. --Brasswatchman (talk) 03:58, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

private

Isn't "private" kind of ambiguous in this case:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_Historical_Society? What does "private" exactly mean? I mean, "private" could mean that it is "only open to invitees" or possibly "does not accept public donations", or something else.68.148.164.166 (talk) 09:24, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

That organization describes itself as "a private non-profit organization" on its website, so whatever ambiguity there may be in the Wikipedia article's wording may be a result of how that organization describes itself. From their website, you'll find that the SCHS does invite the public to join and to make donations to them, so neither of your two interpretations is what the word "private" is intended to mean. That organization may have chosen to call itself "private" to emphasize that it is not connected with the government, despite having "Supreme Court" in its name. --71.162.249.44 (talk) 13:08, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Or it could mean it's an incorporated entity but not a public company. In other words, you can't buy shares in it; but you can still donate to it. -- JackofOz (talk) 13:21, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Is there any such thing as a publicly-held non-profit organization, though? I think 71 is correct, that it means non-government. -- Coneslayer (talk) 13:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, all non-profits are privately-held, especially if they are member organizations. There are non-profits that are owned by publicly-owned companies (like the private ABS-CBN Foundation being owned by the public ABS-CBN Broadcasting Corporation in the Philippines), but never publicly-owned non-profits, especially because non-profits cannot financially benefit anyone (and in a public or stock corporation, this is done by means of corporate dividends, which are required to be disbursed by law). --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 13:52, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilia#Cilium-related_disease

What does "heterotaxic" mean?68.148.164.166 (talk) 09:42, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

From the OED: 'heterotaxy: Aberrant or abnormal disposition of organs or parts.' Algebraist 09:56, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Lace-making

Does it have a figurative meaning -- other than making laces actually? In an article about Samuel Beckett, I read that "he lived a bohemian life, [but] she [who is a pianist] preferred lace-making." --Omidinist (talk) 15:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, it refers to making lace rather than shoelaces if that helps. I guess there's a bit of an upper-class air to it. --_{tiny plastic} Grey Knight ⊖ 15:37, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I interpret it as "she preferred living the quiet life at home" (doing some good old homeworking activity such as lace-making, crocheting, or knitting). I couldn't find a specific reference for "lacemaking" meaning this, but I think it represents a domestic lifestyle. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:41, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess this is a reference to Suzanne Dechevaux-Dumesnil? To my ear, lace-making doesn't have an 'upper-class' air about it. On the whole, those who made lace - a repetitive and painstaking activity - were the women of the respectable working class. Ladies were more likely to read books, draw watercolours, play musical instruments, sing, ride, take lovers - the kinds of things Bohemians did. Xn4 19:52, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

anatomies VS anatomy

Is anatomies a proper term to use at any time when you're talking about more than one anatomy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.167.237.153 (talk) 23:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure. You could compare the anatomies of chimps and humans, for instance. Note that the US National Institutes of Health uses the term. — Lomn 04:21, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

No-one vs. no one

Why do the British, judging from the BBC, hyphenate "no-one" when they seem to shy away from hyphens in general? Why do Americans not hyphenate the word when they do it with everything else? Thanks. Imagine Reason (talk) 23:42, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, this is a bit of a generalisation. Americans are tending toward using hyphens less and less. My best guess would be "tradition". ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:20, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Noticing that that BBC hyphenates a specific word does not mean the spelling is used nationwide; that is just the BBC's style. British publishers who follow the Oxford series of dictionaries and style guides do not hyphenate no one. I don't. No hyphen would seem to be necessary.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 06:56, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

It's really two words, and a hyphen isn't necessary. But that's preferable to spelling it as "noone". I guess some people figure that because it's equivalent to "nobody", which is only one word, it must also be spelled as one word, and hence a hyphen is required so that it doesn't come out as "noone". But that's a false comparison. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:14, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Jack, I think you're on the "wrong fork of the right track", not sure how else to say that. It's really two words, that's true. But, so are any one and some one, and they've come to be one word over time; when some one tries the same trick with no one, they logically say, "Oops, noone doesn't look right, but since it's gotta be one word like the others, I better hyphenate it..."

I wonder why noöne never became popular, since it seems to meet the same requirements as coöperate vs. co-operate. --Danh, 63.231.163.123 (talk) 23:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Because it looks like "Noone" (the surname)? --71.162.249.44 (talk) 02:08, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

More probably because the diaresis or umlaut is not generally recognised as a feature of English spelling. They appear only when we have to quote foreign words. In fact, English doesn't use any diacritics at all; cedillas, acutes, tildes etc are routinely (if not always) discarded when a foreign word becomes incorporated into English (cafe, premiere, El Nino, etc.), although the pronunciation is generally preserved in common words that were originally spelled with French diacritics (we still say "ka-fay" rather than "kayf"). On the other hand, a lot of people say "el neeno" rather than "el nee-nyo", but I guess they can be forgiven since we don't generally take much trouble to educate our young in what a Spanish tilde does to a consonant. Given that approach, many people wouldn't know how "noöne" is supposed to be pronounced; in any event, it's an attempt at a solution for a problem that doesn't exist (it's supposed to be written as 2 separate words). In words like co-operate, a hyphen does the job admirably. (I'm sure there are exceptions to some of the above. Our article still spells Nino with a tilde, but newspapers generally don't, and I predict a time when spelling it the original Spanish way will be regarded as an affectation, just as spelling cafe with an acute and premiere with a grave is so regarded nowadays.) -- JackofOz (talk) 07:07, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Role is another example. I've lost count of the number of times I've corrected articles that spelled it as "rôle". -- JackofOz (talk) 01:05, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

June 28

Celtic language pronunciation

I would like to know how to pronounce heneiniau which is Celtic for great grandmother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.29.115 (talk) 01:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

There's no one "Celtic language pronunciation"; each language has its own particular rules (in some cases different for different dialects). AnonMoos (talk) 03:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Heneiniau is Welsh, which is but one of many Celtic languages. It means "great-grandmothers" (plural); the singular is hennain, which is pronounced [ˈhɛnain]. Strad (talk) 06:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

The plural heineiniau ("great-grandmothers") is pronounced [hɛˈnəinjaɨ] or [hɛˈnəinja] in northern dialects and [hɛˈnəinjai] or [hɛˈnəinje] in southern dialects. In both cases, the first one listed is used in careful pronunciation and the second one listed is more colloquial. —Angr 07:04, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

A great many Welsh words don't have a 'correct' pronunciation. The important Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru contains no pronunciations. Xn4 02:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

What's that supposed to mean? As in all languages, what is correct in Welsh is determined by what native speakers actually say. —Angr 06:21, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Request for Danish translation

Could anyone kindly translate the following text into Danish for me, please ? :

Write any questions, feelings, emotions or anything you would like to consult me about school.

Thank you so much... --125.24.12.234 (talk) 14:38, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Google translate [1] gives this:

Skriv eventuelle spørgsmål, følelser, følelser eller noget, du gerne vil høre mig om skolen.

Machine translations are seldom very good, however, and the sentence is a trifle awkward even in its original form. No doubt someone who speaks Danish can help you better. ៛ Bielle (talk) 03:57, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Since there doesn't appear to be any Danes around, I'll have a go. In the machine translation, you may have noticed that Google translates "feelings" and "emotions" identically, "følelser". In Norwegian (which is very similar to Danish), "følelser" would be the most reasonable translation of "emotions". "Feelings" in this context would more reasonably be translated as "synspunkter" (opinions). "Høre mig om skolen" does not make much sense in Norwegian, and probably not in Danish either. I would suggest

Skriv eventuelle spørgsmål, synspunkter, følelser eller annet du vil spørge mig om vedrørende skolen.

which is Norwegian with Danish spelling, and hopefully better than Google's suggestion. I rephrased the sentence slightly. In English, a word-by-word translation of my version would be

Write any questions, opinions, emotions or anything else that you would like to ask me about concerning the school.

Note, however, that the translation preserves the awkwardness of the original wording, by asking for questions twice. You might get a better answer if you ask a Danish wikipedian directly on his/her user page. --NorwegianBlue ^talk 14:13, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Pleas translate this into Danish

thanks,thank you

Vandalize

Can VANDALIZE be something you do to your own property, willfully and intentionally?--Tanstaafl37 (talk) 14:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't use it that way, not even if you were doing it for the insurance money. —Angr 14:54, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I see no reason why not, there may be a better term for it though..87.102.86.73 (talk) 15:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

According to Wiktionary, to vandalize is "to needlessly destroy other people's property" (I added the bold.).--El aprendelenguas (talk) 19:36, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, to vandalize is "to destroy or damage (public or private property) maliciously". No mention of whose property; is that meaningful or is there an assumption that of course we're talking about someone else's property?--Tanstaafl37 (talk) 01:00, 29 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tanstaafl37 (talk • contribs) 00:53, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

What OED are you referring to? I can't find that in the [www.oed.com online edition]. In any case, I'm not sure it's possible to maliciously damage one's own property. Algebraist 01:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Is it possible to be malicious towards oneself or one's own property? Maybe. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:09, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Would defacing something of your own that is cherished by someone else (possibly a present from said other), to cause distress to that other person work. The OED reference is from a 2001 hardback edition.--Tanstaafl37 (talk) 01:21, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't vandalism imply an illegal act, along the same lines as robbery? Just as you can't illegally steal from yourself, you can't illegally damage your own property.--El aprendelenguas (talk) 01:24, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

No. Algebraist 01:33, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

That would be the revised Concise Oxford English Dictionary, which is more modern on some things than the OED itself. The OED's entry for vandalism is 'The conduct or spirit characteristic of, or attributed to, the Vandals in respect of culture; ruthless destruction or spoiling of anything beautiful or venerable; in weakened sense, barbarous, ignorant, or inartistic treatment.' Algebraist 01:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

So far malice seems to be the only attachment I can find, no legality or illegality has been required.--Tanstaafl37 (talk) 01:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I should say it is possible to vandalize your own property, but only if it has some special character which gives you a duty to preserve it. (Actually, El aprendelenguas, in some countries you can unlawfully damage your own property, if it's protected by law or by a court order). If you owned an important work of art or an historic building and you wantonly destroyed them, I think that could properly be called vandalism. In the UK, it might also be a criminal offence: for instance, if you altered or demolished your own listed building without the consent of the local planning authority. Xn4 02:28, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

The reference mentioned earlier from the concise OED on vandalism is referring to the 'Vandals' which is "an east germanic people that ravaged Gaul, Spain and North Africa and sacked Rome. (Circa A.D.455)"[Websters New World College Dictionary]. While its of interest to note the origins, we still need to nail down wether malice can be applied towards oneself or oneselfs property. In the case of spite or revenge it would still be physically manifested against yourself, but malicious towards another through the vandalized item.--Tanstaafl37 (talk) 03:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

If vandalism requires malice and malice implies spite then you can't vandalise your own property because you can't have spite for yourself. But vandalism doesn't require malice according to Wiktionary. Their definition even mentions "...usually someone else's property or common or shared property." (I added the bold). Zain Ebrahim (talk) 08:38, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

If vandalism is extended to 'erecting a hideous edifice that is judged an eyesore' then yes, you can vandalise your own property because said edifice can be erected on ones own property.

And in general yes I can 'vandalise my own property' with out breaking the rules of english - though such an act would no doubt be indicative of a particularily unstable mind.87.102.86.73 (talk) 09:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't Usually mean Not Always?--12.219.120.120 (talk) 15:34, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I would say that "usually" implies "not always". Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily. In some contexts it can be a synonym for always, but generally speaking it implies "mostly but not necessarily always". -- JackofOz (talk) 23:59, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so "usually" usually implies "not always" but not always. :) Zain Ebrahim (talk) 07:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

May I quote that, Zain? I like its succinctness. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:52, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

French translation

What are the meanings of the following French phrases:

Un peu cédé

Lointain

Au mouvt

Thanks 203.219.97.110 (talk) 23:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I suspect you've come across these in French music, possibly Debussy. In a musical context, "lointain" means distantly, ie. sotto voce. "Au mouvt" is short for "au movement", which is equivalent to a tempo, an instruction to return to the main tempo after a ritardando. The first one, I'm not sure of. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:06, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Un peu cédé means something like poco rallentando. Literally, "yielding a little"; or, even more literally and unidiomatically, "yielded a little". In brief, slow down a bit. Think of the English words cede and relent, cognate with French céder and Italian rallentare. –_⊥^{¡ɐɔıʇǝo}Noetica!^T– 02:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back, Noetica. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses!
btw, the song was "The little white donkey" by Ibert. 203.219.97.110 (talk) 07:21, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

June 29

Thanks, good work on orange

You all might not get many thanks, for all your work, so I thought I'd applaud you for answering my query on whether the color "orange" or the fruit came first *right ont he disambiguation page*. Interesting to see how it was rendered before, the word which would be translated into English "yellow-red." Fascinating.209.244.30.221 (talk) 00:29, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Language/word pronounciation

How do you pronounce the last name of Composer, Charles Gounod? And in the name "Rogie Clark" does the "g" have a soft sound or a hard sound?

Cozette Spinner —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.243.9.142 (talk) 04:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not too sure about the first one, but I'm fairly certain that the g in Rogie is hard. Paragon12321 (talk) 04:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Gounod is /guno/ (or goo-noh for the IPA-impaired). —Angr 06:19, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Did you mean pronunciation? Paul Davidson (talk) 13:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Could the OP have possibly meant anything else? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 14:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

what is the meaning of “make a bomb"?

it is said that it means make a fortune, but why a bomb is a fortune? thank you very much! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Good.louis1 (talk • contribs) 15:23, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe there's an association with "blow up" or "explode". Originally referring to detonations by an actual physical bomb or similar, these verbs are often used to mean make something occupy more space, or get bigger e.g. when increasing the size of a small section of an image. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:49, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

German question

How to translate "The men who hate women" and "The men whom women hate" to German? I keep coming up with Die Männer, die die Frauen hassen for both. Surely this can't be right? JIP | Talk 18:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Yep, I'm afraid it's right. The German phrase is indeed ambiguous between the two meanings, at least in written form. My non-native speaker intuition wants to make a slight intonational difference between them in the spoken language though: "The men who hate the women" is "Die Männer, die die FRAUEN hassen" while "The men whom the women hate" is "Die Männer, die die Frauen HASSEN". —Angr 18:07, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Having a sequence with three occurrances of "die", twice an article, once a pronoun, is a bit awkward in German and reduces comprehension / legibility as the nominative is identical to the accusative in the plural. However, even if you were to prune it to: "Männer, welche Frauen hassen...", you are left with the same ambiguity / identity of cases.

To avoid confusion, it may be better to put the second clause into a passive form, "Männer, welche von Frauen gehasst werden, ..." It may be a bit clumsy, but, at least, it is clear what is meant. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 22:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

lorem ipsum

I was just wondering, what is the exact use or this piece of text. Is it used to display where there's going to be a picture? --DA PIE EATER REVIEW ME 21:32, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Have you read lorem ipsum and filler text? Algebraist 21:35, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Klaus Kinski interview

I'd be very grateful if someone could tell me the gist (nothing too detailed is required) of this wonderful interview with the great Klaus Kinski, in which he really goes off on one with the interviewer. Many thanks. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 21:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

The gist is "How dare you ask me such stupid questions?!" —Angr 22:01, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

In a nutshell: "As the sun shines brightly out of my ingenious anus, you miserable mortal turds should grovel humbly in your muck and express but hagiographic ecstasy at my divine flatulence." Mind you, I still remember one of his recitals of Villon / Baudelaire in a small Kellerbühne, somewhere in the early sixties.

For all I know, his judgement of his fellow humans was right. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

"Enigma was among the first recording groups to use direct to HD recording studio and non-percussion musical instrument and vocal samples..."

What does "direct to HD recording studio": mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_%28musical_project%29?75.152.131.91 (talk) 22:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

HD = hard disc, i.e. they recorded their music directly onto computer rather than using audio tape. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 22:47, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

June 30

Freud in Portuguese: "Arquitectura animica"

I´m trying to help a friend translate a concept for a psychoanalysis peice he's writing. After a long attempt at trying to get a general understanding of the term and realizing that it must exist in english but that I just couldn´t put my finger on it, I started asking him etymological questions. The concept is "Arquitectura animica," and it was first used by Freud. Animica comes from animus which pertains to the soul or the soul's faculties. The idea (as best as I understand it) relates to concepts, assumptions about the world and manners of interpreting the world that are hard-wired into an individual´s psyche by their parent cultural and upbringing. I suggested "paradigm" and "ideology," but my friend didn't bite. If anyone can give a better translation, preferably (if possible) the phrase in common use by freudian translators into english, it would be much appreciated. --Shaggorama (talk) 01:03, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

The original German is "seelische Konstruktion". In English it is often given as "psychic structure" (I don't know why structure is preferable to construction, nor do I understand why arquitectura is preferable to construção or estrutura). ---Sluzzelin talk 01:44, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Spainish help

In my Spanish textbook it explains the uses of lo, la, los and las and I understand it.

Yo miro la chicas = La Miro

Leen el libro = lo leen

But for the life of me I don't understand the usage of le and les Could someone explain it to me please? 4.159.183.112 (talk) 02:42, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

lo, la, los, las are used for direct objects (what?). le, les are used for indirect objects (to whom?). There is an exception to this; when you talk about people, you generally use le or les. Leptictidium (mt) 09:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Your first example is incorrect. it should be Yo miro a las chicas = Las miro. Corvus cornix_talk 23:25, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Yo miro a las chicas = "I see the girls." (Yo) Las miro = "I see them". -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:52, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Wedding congratulations in French

Hi, what do people in France write when sending a card to someone getting married? In Korea people usually write "Congratulations on your marriage. I hope you live happily!" but I have no idea how to render the phrase in French.

If a literal translation of the above is not so good, what would be something nice to say in French? I ask because an acquaintance asked me for some help. Thanks. --Kjoonlee 06:51, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

There are some e-cards here that have nice messages. I found the site by searching for "felicitations mariage". (The e in Félicitations has an acute accent but you don't need it in a search engine.) Itsmejudith (talk) 10:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Merci beaucoup! :) --Kjoonlee 12:07, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation of 'P' in German

An Austrian radio news broadcast referred to two of the main political parties, the ÖVP and the SPÖ. But the announcer pronounced the Ps in these two TLAs differently. He read the P in ÖVP as /peɪ/, which I think is the normal pronunciation, but he read the P in SPÖ as /pɜr/. (Hope I've got the IPA right; it's my first attempt, so bear with me.) Why the difference? Is it because one is at the end of a group of letters, whereas the other one is in the middle? Or is there some other reason? Many thanks. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea, but something similar might happen if the pronunciation of P was influenced by the following Ö. (Vowel assimilation is my guess.) --Kjoonlee 09:03, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Help with a sentence in Turkish

How would one say in Turkish "So, where were we?", in the sense of "what where we talking about?"? Thanks. Leptictidium (mt) 08:56, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

In Azari dialect, they say: "hala haardi dukh" and also "indi haardi duk". "Hala" and "indi" both mean "now". --Omidinist (talk) 17:22, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Use of full-stops, closing brackets, commas etc in Setswana

Hello,

I am busy editing Setswana books as much as I can with very little knowledge of the language. I don't want to fix things that are not mistakes. These 'mistakes' happen very frequently, and although this is probably a silly question, I need to double check...

For example, is it correct to have an open bracket without a closing one?

Or, as in this sentence: Monna a fetole ka gore “Ao tlou! Re ka tsena jang mo ntlong re le babedi o le kanakana? E rile kere o nthuse a bo o gana”

Is it ok to leave out commas and full stops?

Thanks in advance, Nicky 196.25.159.167 (talk) 10:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Indonesian

Does anybody know what "Keren" means in Indonesian? Thanks in advance. 80.123.210.172 (talk) 12:34, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

"Cool", or "attractive" if my google-skills are up to scratch. Fribbler (talk) 13:09, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Name of school in Reims, France, 1945

According to a photodocument I've seen, the name on the facade of the building in which Nazi Germany's surrender was signed on May 8, 1945 is (all caps in original): COLLEGE MODERNE ET TECHNIQUE DE GARÇONS / ECOLE SUPERIEURE DE COMMERCE / VILLE DE REIMS. How to translate this to English? -- Merci, Deborahjay (talk) 13:21, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

It can be translated as: Modern and Technical College for Boys / Advanced School of Commerce / City of Reims. --Omidinist (talk) 15:26, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

A collège is the equivalent of a secondary school (highschool). Moreover it is a collège moderne, that is unlike a lycée where you get a "classical" education, the studies are more "practical", job oriented. And it is also a collège technique, a technical college. – AldoSyrt (talk) 19:34, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

The école supérieure de commerce refers to the École supérieure de commerce de Reims a business school or a management school. At that time I think it was more a business school. Wiki page here: Sup de Co Reims. At the beginning the building was for a secondary school and, circa 1937, the business school settled in this building (may be the building was shared between the two schools). More here for those who can read French (page 9) [[2]].– AldoSyrt (talk) 19:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

It's international site here translates it's name into english (see logo top left) as Reims Management School. Fribbler (talk) 22:21, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Alphabetical order of persons' names and numbers in featured lists

I noticed that the sortable lists on some featured lists such as the list of songs in Guitar Hero, Guitar Hero II, and Guitar Hero Encore: Rocks the 80s, the names of persons such as Billy Squier and Eddie Money are sorted strangely. Instead of being sorted by their last names (e.g., Squier, Billy and Money, Eddie), they are simply sorted by their first names. Is this intentional? Also, names starting with numbers such as "18 and Life" and 38 Special appear automatically at the top of the list when sorted, instead of being sorted by the spelling of their pronunciations (e.g., Eighteen and Life, Thirty-Eight Special). Is this intentional too? I tried asking this on the talk page for for WP:FL, but I have not received a response for nearly five days. Xnux the Echidna 15:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

There are several reasons for listing items the way you describe it. First, the "first name last name" bit is an established naming convention, and that page explains the advantages of such a convention. This means that articles about people are ordered by first name within the Wikipedia database itself, so it's logical to put that same order in any article. Plus, it seems there are Wiki tools that aid in ordering lists, and obviously if you were to use them you'd get ordering by first name, not last. So, lists ordered by first name is basically the norm all over Wikipedia. What does seem strange to me is expecting items to be ordered not by their name, but by how you'd pronounce them? That is just silly! Kreachure (talk) 16:27, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

First of all, I fail to see anywhere on WP:NCP where it says to sort people by their first names. Even if the Wikipedia database automatically sorts them by their first name, this is a technical property, not a guideline. It is very easy to have lists sort by last names anyway (that's what Template:Sortname is for). As for numbers, sorting them by the way they are spelled out with letters is not unusual. See Collation#Alphabetical_sorting_of_numbers, it says that when "numbers are used as names, rather than for their numerical properties, it is common to sort them alphabetically as they would be spelled." "18 and Life" and 38 Special are definitely names, and they should be sorted as such. Xnux the Echidna 16:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Would someone genuinely go to B if they were searching for Billy Joel in a list? I assume 'the' is removed from the sort, otherwise the 'T' section would be horrific. surname is (in my opinion) certainly the way to go if possible, it's how most things I see are sorted. ny156uk (talk) 22:10, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm terribly sorry for you, but that's just the way Wikipedia is ordered, has been, and will quite probably keep being ordered. Why? Because there are already over two million pages created, and a lot of those have lists with the 'strange' ordering mentioned. So it's not 'strange' for Wikipedia. If you want to go search each and every article looking for lists in order to change them, be my guest, but it's quite probably a near-impossible task. I'm not an expert, and I tried my best to try to figure the reasons for list orderings, seeing as you hadn't received any help yet; but now I rather regret it. Maybe it's better if you talked to the people at WikiProject Lists. (PS. I would genuinely look at B for Billy Joel here. It's just what years of using Wikipedia have taught me.) Kreachure (talk) 22:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Except that categories are sorted by last names, so we're rather inconsistent there. Corvus cornix_talk 23:27, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah, but you have to make that happen manually by using Default sort in each article. If you don't, "Billy Joel" would indeed appear in his categories under B, not J. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:58, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

One Syllable?

The English words with uncommon properties page said that "squirrelled" is only one syllable, but I would have thought that it would have been two - squer-rolled. How does this work?

Thanks, Falconus^{p t c} 23:53, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

It depends on the pronunciation. Some say it with one syllable, others with two. I would say it with two syllables, but I've heard others pronounce it monosyllabically. Fribbler (talk) 00:09, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. --Falconus^{p t c} 00:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I pronounce it monosyllabically; to me, it rhymes with "world". Indeterminate (talk) 00:38, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Australians (and Britain, NZ, India and Sri Lanka) pronounce it disyllabically (a word I've never used before, so thanks for the opportunity of expanding my vocab). There's no single rhyme that I know of, but I can imagine some people have named their pet squirrel "Cyril" because they're exact rhymes in these parts (not that we have any squirrels in Oz, but that's another story). "Cyril the squorl" wouldn't work. Maybe "Pearl the squorl" or "Earl the squorl" would sound better to North American ears. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

To me, "world" sounds disyllabical (also my first usage of that word) as well. Like Were-old. These dialect differences are always pretty neat though. Thanks again, Falconus^{p t c} 01:10, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

July 1

difference between 'speak English , and speak in English'

Please explain me the difference between in the usage of'speak in English, and speak English' 117.200.0.46 (talk) 00:27, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

To me they are the same thing. If you told me to speak English or speak in English I would interpret them the same way. "Speak in English!" as a command though sounds just a little clumsier than "Speak English!" but both ways are very acceptable to me. I think I use both interchangeably. --Falconus^{p t c} 01:13, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

They often mean the same thing, but they can be different. "I speak English" means that I can speak English, but I may choose not to, if I want to. "I speak in English" means that not only can you speak English, but you actively do so. On their own, "Speak English!" and "Speak in English!" have the same meaning, but context will mean that you sometimes have to choose between whether you just want the ability (I speak English) or the action as well (I speak in English). Steewi (talk) 06:31, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Just to add that "Speak English" is sometimes used in a nonliteral sense—for instance, as a response to someone who is, in fact, speaking English but is using "highfalutin'" language or technical jargon. I don't think I've ever heard "Speak in English" used that way. Deor (talk) 12:00, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Is this a two-part phrasal verb?

I changed the article "Stuck in a Moment You Can't Get Out Of" to "Stuck in a Moment You Can't Get out Of" some time ago on the basis that prepositions weren't capitalized. However, I can't help but wonder if the phrase "Get Out Of" is a two-part phrasal verb: where the preposition serves as an adverb and should be capitalized (as per WP:MUSTARD). I simply can't tell for the life of me if "Get Out Of" is a two-part phrasal verb or not, even after looking at other examples such as "Carry On Wayward Son" and "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)". Help? Xnux the Echidna 01:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

"Out of" is usually treated as a compound preposition, in which case out would be capitalized if one subscribes to the practice of capitalizing prepositions of five (or more) letters in titles (and of would of course be capitalized as the last word in the title). In a cursory examination, I can't find any WP:MOS guidance relating to the capitalization of prepositions in titles, but it may be there someplace. Or one can take out as an adverb (or part of a phrasal verb), in which case it would also be capitalized. I have to say, the version with lowercase out looks mighty odd to me, and I'd be inclined to capitalize it in any case. Note, however, the article We Gotta Get out of This Place, where out is lowercase, though I would capitalize it there, too. Deor (talk) 02:27, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

According to dictionary.com [3], get out is a phrasal verb, so out should be capitalized in both of the examples above. Of is a preposition, but it should be capitalized in the first example, "Stuck in a Moment You Can't Get Out Of" for being the last word in the title, as previously mentioned.--El aprendelenguas (talk) 18:45, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Repeating a word until it loses meaning

Why when you repeat a word over and over again it suddenly seems to lose meaning and starts to sound arbitrary? (Anglo-Saxon derived English words in particular do this for me—milk, cow, sheep, etc.) Why does repetition of a word seem to strip it of its semantic meaning, at least temporarily? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 02:12, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Could be related to Repetition blindness. In general, a persistent sensory stimulus decreases in salience over time, and is ignored after a while (unless it is strong to the point of being unbearable). --Dr Dima (talk) 06:07, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, that's a great term to know! --98.217.8.46 (talk) 00:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome! --Dr Dima (talk) 01:06, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

No, no, no, no, no, no . . . DOR (HK) (talk) 10:29, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

"Teacher" in Sanskrit

Hello, all -

Does anyone out there know how to say, "teacher" in Sanskrit? If so, please let me know at <email removed as per wiki policy>

Thanks. . . . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.106.10.147 (talk) 04:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Guru? Julia Rossi (talk) 06:30, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

This[4] gives 'aacarya' meaning 'religious teacher', 'adhyaapikaa' for a 'lady/female teacher', 'anuuchaanaM' as 'teacher(?)', 'guru'/'guruH' as (among other things) 'the title given to a preceptor or teacher', jñaanakIrti 'a Buddhist teacher', paNDita - "a scholar, a learned man, teacher, philosopher, a Pandit", suucaka "pointing out , indicating , showing; the manager or chief actor of a company ; a narrator , teacher ; the son of an A1yogava and a Kshatriya1 ; a Buddha ; a Siddha ; demon , imp ; villain , dog ; jackal ; cat ; crow ; needle ; balustrade , parapet ; kind of rice". Many of these appear to be metaphorical words applied to teachers. Aacarya, anuuchaanaM, adhyaapikaa and guru appear to be the most general. Steewi (talk) 06:43, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Additional: Capeller's dictionary (searchable at [5]) gives adhyaapaka, aacarya and guru as the most general translations, with aacarya applying to religious teaching, and adhyaapaka applying to general teaching. There is also caraNaguru "a Vedic teacher", baalaadhyaapaka "a teacher of boys" and bhrtakadhyaapaka "a hired teacher". Steewi (talk) 06:52, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Baby, Baby!

While trying to learn German for an upcoming vacation to Germany, I was surprised to find out that the German word for "baby" is "baby". After checking the German Wikipedia for Baby, I see that the disambiguation page there says that a baby is more properly called a Säugling. So where did the German use of the word "baby" come from? Is it borrowed from the English language? Or did we borrow it from them (it doesn't sound very German)? Dismas|^(talk) 10:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

According to Kluge's etymological dictionary, it was borrowed from English in the 19th century, supposedly because at that time English nannies had a very high reputation in better-off German families and brought part of their vocabulary with them. -- Ferkelparade π 10:44, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

My Duden speculates it may be an echolalian term, based on the infant´s baba-babbling. In this case, strictly speaking, it´s neither English nor any other language proper. Maybe it is an early attempt at a critique of life outside the womb.

"Baby" is used - almost always - in colloquial German. "Säugling" is the formal term which you may find in official documents, medical contexts and the like. There is also the term "Kleinkind" (= small child), but again, this is rather formal.

Rather surprisingly, I still see many an English nanny in my neck of the woods (Vienna), but Google just discovered that there is an English kindergarten up the road, presumably for diplomats, UNO staff kids and the like.

Enjoy your stay in Europe, Dismas... --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 09:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you'd find many lexicographers agreeing that "baby" is not an English word, Cookatoo. Of course it's an English word - regardless of its origins. -- JackofOz (talk) 11:30, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Happens thy know

I once said to someone in a Yorkshire accent "there's 'out so queer as folk" and they replied in a similar accent, something which sounded like "happens thy know, lad" but I find no Google hits for the phrase "happens thy know" which might indicate that I misheard. Perhaps someone can offer a likely alternative? ----Seans Potato Business 10:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

No, you heard correctly. - X201 (talk) 10:48, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

No, he didn't. It's more like "happen tha knows". --Richardrj ^{talk email} 10:53, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

In case the meaning is not clear, they meant "it is likely that you would know about that". Possibly they thought that you were making fun of their own accent. Gandalf61 (talk) 11:10, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

word meaning

What does 'humdinging'mean?And how can it be applied? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.174.34 (talk) 10:42, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Amazing, superb, exceptional.[6] The tennis match between Hewitt and X201 was a real humdinger - X201 (talk) 10:49, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

rumauli

Is there a word for the same area of the body that refers to a male?TX —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.174.34 (talk) 13:07, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Sagittal Abdominal Hair probably. Or in slang terms, "Happy Trail". Fribbler (talk) 13:21, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I've heard the more alliterative "treasure trail" for that. But I've never heard "rumauli" before; I wouldn't have had any idea what the OP was asking about. —Angr 15:04, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

"Treasure Trail" too actually, yeah. I didn't know what rumauli was either, and I should have posted a link to my source of enlightenment. So here it is! [7] Fribbler (talk) 15:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, way into the slang and/or disturbing end of the spectrum, "crab ladder". --LarryMac | Talk 13:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

July 2

INfobox

What is "Ethno-Rock":

In the infobox of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_Dynasty_%28band%29?68.148.164.166 (talk) 05:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not a particularly helpful descriptive term, IMHO. The link "Ethno-rock" in that article redirects to Traditional music. I guess it would involve traditional music being played in a western rock style, with amplification and so on. By the way, I've already told you on your talk page that you shouldn't copy and paste the entire URL when you want to link to another Wikipedia article. Just enclose the article name in two sets of square brackets, like this: [[Tang Dynasty (band)]] which gives Tang Dynasty (band). --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:35, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

World music includes ethno-rock. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Translation of passage on the Foshou - Buddha's Hand Citron

Can a user please translate the following passage for me into English. "• Foshou, buddha-keze citrom - Citrus medica v. sacrodactylis Buddha's Hand Citron A buddha-keze egy eredetileg Indiában őshonos citrusféle, amely nálunk orvosi citrom néven ismert. Nevét termésének különleges alakjáról nyerte, amely kinyújtott ujjakhoz hasonlít. A termés nem ehető, viszont erős, átható, édes illata miatt gyakorta tartották szobában. Az erotikus irodalomban általában a férfi nemi szervet szimbolizálja. A buddha-keze az őszibarackkal és a gránátalmával együtt a három szerencsehozó gyümölcs csoportját alkotják. Ha ezt a három gyümölcsöt egy képen ábrázolják, azt a kívánságot fejezi ki, hogy a megajándékozott hosszú életű legyen és szülessen sok-sok fia. A hangzásbeli hasonlóság miatt a buddha-keze (foshou) a "boldog hosszúélet" (fu shou) jelképe is. Ha pillangóval (die) együtt ábrázolják, akkor az üzenet azt fejezi ki, hogy a megajándékozott éljen 80 évig (die)." Thank you Simonschaim (talk) 06:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I can't, but if it helps, it's Hungarian. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

blue cheese

Where can I find description of blue cheese? Thank you.--80.252.131.163 (talk) 11:55, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Blue cheese - X201 (talk) 11:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

And I thought the person had misspelled it and it would be "bleu cheese," since it's French. Well, no, that's a different type of salad dressing :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.187.155 (talk) 18:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

koebalatavake: meaning

I just purchased a piece of Tapa/Kapa (beaten mulberry bark) cloth with a word "KOEBALATAVAKE" imprinted on the cloth. My Wiki search and other search engines shows no reference page. The only clue I can uncover is that Tongan language uses the consonant "b" for the consonant "v" prior to 1943. If any Polynesian language expert can help me decipher the meaning of this word, I would be most appreciative.67.52.95.194 (talk) 20:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I am no Polynesian language expert, I'm afraid, but for what it's worth, "Tavake" is a girl's name in a number of Polynesian languages; it is also the Tongan name for the White-tailed Tropicbird, and used in the Cook Islands for the Red-tailed Tropicbird. Pala tavake (Tongan) is a feathered headdress] worn by chiefs and people of importance. Perhaps the design on the tapa cloth offers further clues? Gwinva (talk) 21:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

July 3

Prezzo

Hello, can you tell me how to pronounce 'prezzo' in Italian? There is a restaurant chain in the UK with the name, and it seems reasonable to me to pronounce it 'PRET-zo' in the same fashion as 'PEAT-za' or 'mots-a-RELL-a', but I am encountering disagreement. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.60.20.81 (talk) 13:57, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

You're right that that's how it would be pronounced in Italian. We have a chain in the US called Fazoli's which I always want to pronounce with a [ts] sound, but everyone else pronounces it with a [z]. —Keenan Pepper 14:27, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. Double Z is 'ts' and a single Z is pronounced as a Z. Fribbler (talk) 14:39, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

What, are you serious? Are you saying grazie is not pronounced the way I've heard everyone pronounce it? —Keenan Pepper 16:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, Fribbler, you're mistaken. Single Z in Italian is pronounced as either [ts] or [dz], depending on the word (you can't tell which from the spelling), and double ZZ is the same, but the "t" or "d" portion is held longer, i.e. double ZZ is pronounced as either [tts] or [ddz], again depending on the word (again, you can't tell which from the spelling). —Angr 16:19, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

In this case, prezzo is the Italian word for "price" (refreshing honesty in advertising for the name of a restaurant!) and is pronounced [ˈpɾɛttso]. (Imagine a Londoner saying "pretzel" and you'll be very close.) —Angr 16:24, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. Whats going on here [8]? Under the "Z" entry the sound file pronounces an s sound then goes on to say grrra(t)sie? Fribbler (talk) 16:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I listened to it a few times and managed to convince myself the woman is attempting to say [tsə] before the man says [sta'tsjone], ['gratsje]. But their implication that it's [ts] in the middles of words and [dz] at the beginnings of words is simply a mistake. "Mezzo" is [meddzo] and "zuppa" is [tsuppa]. —Angr 16:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

How to capitalize "God"

I know that it is standard English to use a capital letter to spell "God", when referring to the abrahamic, Yahwe-dude. But do you still capitalize "God" when talking about pagan religions, like Greek or Norse mythology? Especially when you need to use it in plural, it seems strange to write "this was met with disapproval from the rest of the Gods", for instance. What's the standard usage advice here? --Oskar 16:27, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

You don't capitalize it when referring to those gods. In English it's sort of his name, I guess. French also capitalizes "Dieu" but uses "dieu" and "dieux" for the other gods. (And since I apparently must insert an Arabic reference into all of my answers, one translation of the Shahada is "there is no god but God" - out of all the possible gods, there is just one, and his name is God). Adam Bishop (talk) 16:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Right. If it's a god's name that is "God", then you capitalize it, because it's a proper noun. On the other hand, "gods" is just referring to a bunch of gods, who aren't called "God", so "gods" wouldn't be capitalized. IceUnshattered (talk) 17:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Cf. Earth's only moon, which we call the Moon. -- Coneslayer (talk) 17:53, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Seems obvious now :) Thanks --Oskar 18:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

There are many examples where a common house-and-garden noun (oops, sorry oh ye gods) - in the specific context of referencing the One and Only - turns into a capitalised proper noun: the Bard (Willi), the King (Elvis), the Pope (Benedict), the Doctor (who?), La Stupenda (Dame J. Sutherland), or even (Occam´s) Razor. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

If "stupenda" is a commonly used noun in your world, Cookatoo, I must come and visit you some time. :) Was there ever a "stupenda" before JS, and will there ever be another? -- JackofOz (talk) 23:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

As I recently recorded my sisters old vinyl LPs as MP3 CDs (you may call that a sacrilege), I stumbled across a few of her old recordings, mainly with Franco Corelli. Maybe, for reasons of a secure backup, I should consider supplying a trusted acquaintance with a copy? --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:52, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Was that last statement supposed to be another question? With regards to the OP of this question, it is considered His name, so in proper English, it is capitalized, atheist or not. The capitalization of "His" however is more out of respect. Also, in case you didn't know, the Lord's name Yahweh, is considered so sacred by the Jewish people of biblical times (and maybe orthodox followers now) it humans are not worthy to speak His name. So in the bible, His name is replaced with LORD--omnipotence407 (talk) 04:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's not really his name, it's just something with those consonants... Adam Bishop (talk) 12:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, technically its YHWH because there are no vowels in Hebrew, and if you wanted to be really specific, Here it is in all sorts of ancient Hebrew. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omnipotence407 (talk • contribs) 12:40, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Quar- words

Okay, informal survey of the native English speakers here. In which, if any, of the following words do you drop the [w] sound in colloquial, unguarded speech; and where are you from?

1. quarantine
2. quark (the particle in physics)
3. quarrel
4. quarry ("prey")
5. quarry ("excavation site")
6. quart
7. quarter
8. quartet
9. quartz

I personally (having grown up in Rochester, New York, and Austin, Texas, but with an accent much closer to General American than to the local accent of either of those cities) pronounce only "quark", "quarrel", and "quarry (prey)" with [w]; all the others start with [kɔr-] for me. (Yes, this means that I pronounce the two meanings of "quarry" differently!) My dictionaries barely mention this phenomenon (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate lists it only for "quarter", Longman lists it as non-RP British but says nothing about American, other dictionaries from both sides of the pond don't mention it at all), so I'm wondering how widespread it is. —Angr 16:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

In my urban southern Ontario accent (presumably tinged with General American thanks to watching too much TV), I drop the [w] only in quart, quarter, quartet, and quartz. Well, I had to think about "quart" because that's one of the measurements my generation has completely discarded. I was actually surprised to find that I dropped it in "quartet" because it seems like it should remain, but doesn't sound right at all if I keep it. Maybe it has something to do with the following [t]? If I think about them (so, the formal, guarded way that I would probably never really pronounce them), the first three should begin with [kʷ] and quartz should begin with [kw]. "Quark" and "quarry" are [kwɑrk] and [kwɛri] for me (I guess), but my pronunciation of quark, like my pronunciation of data, comes from Star Trek, and I'm pretty sure I pronounce "quarry" like "query" just because I really have no occasion to use that word (should it be [kwɑri]?). "Quarantine" and "quarrel" (and "quartz" if I think about it too much) are pronounced [kwɔr-]. Adam Bishop (talk) 17:20, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

According to the dictionaries, both meanings of "quarry" should start with [kw] and then be followed by whatever vowel your dialect uses in "forest"; in other words, it should rhyme perfectly with "lorry" for all English speakers. I first encountered the word "quarry" in the sense of "excavation site" when I was 9 years old and starting a new school, because there was a quarry behind the schoolyard. I had never seen the word written down, but from the teacher's pronunciation I thought it was spelled "corey". —Angr 20:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

In my not-heavily-accented Irish (north-east) accent, they all begin [kw]. Fribbler (talk) 17:55, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I never drop the [w] in any of those words, in any circumstances, and I can't think of any other quar- words where I would drop the [w].(I think I only ever drop it when pronouncing French words, but I suppose that's not really relevant here.) I'm from London (England, not Ontario).--92.40.205.184 (talk) 18:05, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I also never drop the [w] in any of those words in any circumstances. However, I am from the midwest U.S. (St. Louis to be exact), and I'm pretty sure that folks with a more "midwestern" accent than me would say quarter (and maybe quart, too) without the [w]. I know I've heard people around here say quarter almost like "KAR-ter". Dgcopter (talk) 18:19, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

As a South Jersey native, I never drop the [w], with the possible exception of "quartz". Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme (talk) 18:50, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

As a native Californian, I would never drop the w. Corvus cornix_talk 19:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Native Irish here. Never drop the 'w' sound, nor have I ever heard it dropped, as far as I'm aware.--Yumegusa (talk) 19:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

As a native Floridian with an accent somewhat influenced by that of my parents from South Jersey/Philadelphia, I say all of those words with [w], and I haven't heard a different way of pronouncing them from anyone else I've come in contact with.--El aprendelenguas (talk) 20:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

As an Australian, I pronounce all of them with [w], although quart, quarter, quartet and quartz can sometimes sound like it's only a half-[w], which is not the same thing as [u]. What about question vs. questionnaire? There are people who keep the [w] with question, but drop it with questionnaire (it starts with "kest", which for some reason revolts me and makes me feel all queasy - that's kweezy, not keezy). -- JackofOz (talk) 23:23, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

At first I was going to say that I also don't drop /w/ in any but then maybe I'm being too formal when I'm pronouncing the words. So a better measure might be, if I do omit the /w/, whether it sounds/feels funny or not. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9 seem to need the /w/ while 6, 7, 8 can do without. A number of the first group form minimal pairs (court, coral, cory

I used to work in a secure area and employees could only carry in a small quart-sized ziploc bag's worth of items. There was a funny meeting when our boss reminded us that the ziploc bags couldn't be larger than a court. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 09:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

As I said, I pronounce only 2, 3, and 4 with the [w] and the rest without; but only "quarantine" and "quarry (exc. site)" don't sound too funny if I do pronounce them with [kw]. For 6 through 9, pronouncing the [w] feels distinctly odd to me, rather like pronouncing the w in "sword". (I trust no one here does that!) —Angr 09:46, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Southern England English: /w/ sounds in all of them. Bazza (talk) 12:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Definition of Words

I would like to know what the name for these and other words are called:

Example:

Synonym Antonym

And a whole lot more. Is there a specific name/category for words such as these?

Thank You,

Marla —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.69.94.76 (talk) 21:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not a word, but WP has an article on the suffix: -onym. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 21:45, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Your example may have been chosen somewhat unwisely, as synonym is the antonym of antonym and antonym is the antonym of synonym and neither synonym nor antonym is the synonym of antonym or synonym. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 22:14, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

There is a one-word synonym for antonym ("opposite") but there's no one-word synonym for synonym. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:13, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

You might want to look through the Figure of speech article too. Sandman30s (talk) 22:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Could 'linguistic terminology' be the phrase you're after? Steewi (talk) 01:05, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The article on lexical semantics suggests lexical relations too, though I'm not quite sure that's what you're looking for. ---Sluzzelin talk 07:26, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

While there isnt a general word (that I know of anyway) that covers words of different types of relations with other words in the lexicon, the term lexical relation is the general term that covers specific types of lexical relations such as synonymy, opposition (antonymy), meronymy, homonymy, polysemy, hyponymy, member-collection, incompatibility.

Antonyms and synonyms are not considered to be opposites (i.e. they arent antonyms of each other) within the field of lexical semantics (the relations are quite different), but that idea hasnt filtered down to what is taught in elementary schools (which still hold on to 19th century ideas). – ishwar  (speak) 07:51, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Canadian English: "Focussing" or "Focusing"?

The article on Canadian English doesn't seem to have anything on the specific word 'focusing'. Dictionary.com tells me that spelling the word with one 's' is the US spelling, and using two is done predominantly in the UK. The 'English (Canadian)' language setting in MS Word allows both with the dreaded red line, but can anyone tell me which is the preferred spelling in Canada? Or are they both equally sound? Thanks in advance. Phileas (talk) 23:47, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

My The Canadian Oxford Dictionary (ed. Katherine Barber, 1998) says both are acceptable. It puts "focused, focusing" ahead of "focussed, focussing", but the pairs are not numbered. Personally, I use the doubled consonant because (a) that's what I was taught in public (elementary) school back in the Dark Ages, and (b) pronunciation errors might arise if you use the single consonant. The Canadian newspapers currently (The Globe and Mail, The Toronto Star) use the single consonant. ៛ Bielle (talk) 00:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I always double final Ts, but doubling an S looks kind of strange to me. I don't think we ever learned it one way or the other in school, not for S anyway. With a double S, I want to pronounce it with the stress on the second syllable, like "percuss". Adam Bishop (talk) 01:15, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I suspect, Adam, that the difference is a result of when we went through school. My memories stem from the mid-1950s. Both ways are acceptable now. ៛ Bielle (talk) 01:37, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the information, Bielle. I'll admit, even though I've only been out of the UK for a couple of years, "focussing" looks wrong to me. I don't know if that's because of a change in the way we spell it back in Blighty, or if it's just me. Thanks again. Phileas (talk) 02:52, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The tendency these days is to double a single final consonant in such inflected forms of verbs only when it's in a syllable that's stressed (e.g., incurring, rebutting), and not to double it when it's in an unstressed syllable (e.g., worshiping, traveling). This leads to some forms that look odd to me (kidnaping, for example, looks as though it should have a long a in the middle), but so it goes. Deor (talk) 03:12, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

To clarify spelling here in the UK: focusing/focussing[9] , incurring[10], rebutting[11], worshipping[12], travelling[13], kidnapping[14]. Bazza (talk) 12:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

What is the correct plural form of 'Eclectus'?

Eclectuses? Eclecti? Eclectus? Something else entirely? Any ideas? --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 00:25, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Since the word doesn't exist in classical Latin, I assume that the species name was coined as a second declension noun (like Tyrannosaurus, etc.), in which case the Latinate plural would be eclecti. I, however, tend to prefer Anglicized plurals for such names when treated as English common nouns—eclecticuses eclectuses in this instance. But what's the problem with eclecticus eclectus parrots, which would be my first choice? Deor (talk) 01:25, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be "eclectuses", not "eclecticuses", Deor? -- JackofOz (talk) 04:15, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Oops, I was getting sleepy. Thanks, Jack. Deor (talk) 12:15, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Third highest graduate

As with valedictorian and salutatorian being highest and second highest graduate, respectively, I'm wondering if there is a word for the third highest. I suspect it has to have Latin roots as the others, but I have no idea what that is. If there isn't such a word, what other word could best relate to it? Thanks, Valens Impérial Császár 93 01:28, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The two terms you refer to essentially indicate the persons' functions at the graduation ceremony, so if the third-ranking student has no such function, there's no reason for a name to be assigned. You could make one up, though—tertian, perhaps, or penehonoratan. Deor (talk) 01:44, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

ME!!! Lucky (enough not to have to speak at the graduation ceremony). Bronze Brain.--omnipotence407 (talk) 04:01, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

If I remember right, those ranked from third to seventh (usually, this can go up to the tenth-ranking student) are the honorable mentions. For the third-highest graduate, he/she would be the first honorable mention. --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 13:12, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

French song appearing in older edition of French in Action textbook series

In the second book of an older edition of the popular textbook series "French in Action" (what would most likely be used for a second-year high school course), there was a popular song used as part of the additional optional material at the end of one of the chapters. This song was apparently a hit in France in the 1980's. The singer was female, but I don't remember her name or the name of the song. The song was about meeting up with friends after school, going to a little cafe and hanging out for a while, then getting home late and getting in trouble. The lyrics to the song were printed in the textbook and the song itself was included on a tape for teachers to play for their students. Can anyone help me identify the name of this song and the artist who performed it? - Aletheia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.139.75 (talk) 08:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Means

What does "music grammars" mean:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Language/2008_June_25#http:.2F.2Fen.wikipedia.org.2Fwiki.2FGenerative_music.23Noatikl? Thanks.68.148.164.166 (talk) 11:23, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

wet wool

In the description of a dry white wine it is written "while aging...it is developing some notes of wet wool...". Can it be described in some other words, is it positive or negative taste? Thank you, --88.84.200.1 (talk) 15:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Even if I were a wine-drinker, I wouldn't want to drink wine that tasted like wet wool. Sounds disgusting. —Angr 16:26, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I enjoy the occasional glass of wine, but I'm no connoisseur - I can tell the difference between red and white, but that's about it. However, I think it's generally agreed among experts that the only thing about wine that should taste like wet wool is the expensive cheese that goes with it.