Talk:Madonna

"Dancer" as profession

"Dancer" is already listed as one of her professions in the info box at the right of the page, so I added it to the first sentence in the lede. Madonna started as a dancer, and in interviews she has notes that it is her "foundation." Though she is most famous as a singer, her background in dance is of particular pertinence because she is primarily a singer within the genre of "dance music." I believe she is the most successful act in the history of dance music, with some unheard-of number of #1's in that genre, something like 30 #1 Dance singles. Skatefan2014 (talk) 02:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Taking it out. Dancing is always in the service of the song. She's never released a DVD or done a concert in just dance.--A21sauce (talk) 20:09, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

She also said in the I Want to Tell You A Secret DVD, in the audition process for her dancers, that she's glad she's not a dancer anymore saying that it was a "dog's life."--108.30.35.45 (talk) 02:25, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm putting it back in. In the 1987 interview with Jane Pauley, she refers to dancing as her "foundation." [1] As someone who has studied with one of her dance teachers, I know that Madonna first went to New York to be a dancer -- and she did so at the suggestion of her dance teacher, Christopher Flynn. Releasing a DVD of dance is not the qualifier of whether one is a dancer or not (though I DO remember a dance-oriented DVD called "Addicted to Sweat" [2] being sold during the MDNA concert), and the fact is that at the start of her career she DID take part in performances that were always dance-only. Dance has always been an integral part of her performances, and she has more hits on the Dance Charts than any other act. If not for dance, her career in the entertainment field would never have happened. Skatefan2014 (talk) 13:30, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Addendum: And I remember that in the late 1980s, Madonna was the first act to release a remix album, titled, ahem, You Can Dance. The liner notes to that album make explicit Madonna's deep connection to the world of dance: [3]. ("Only when I'm dancing can I feel this free…." [4]. Skatefan2014 (talk) 01:16, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

"Said Madonna of Seymour on record, “If I didn't meet Seymour Stein, I might still be a broke dancer living in Hell's Kitchen." [5] Skatefan2014 (talk) 03:10, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Removed. Yes, dance is an integral part of her performance, but she is never widely known as a professional dancer. Listing it to the infobox is more than enough. Bluesatellite (talk) 01:55, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I don't think "widely known" is the criterion. I think factual accuracy is. Simply put, she was a professional dancer, and continues to be a dancer. Incidentally: http://m.billboard.com/entry/view/id/116366 Skatefan2014 (talk) 01:59, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes it is, or else we have to list every profession she has ever done. Per WP:LEAD, opening section should "summarize the most important points" of the subject, hence we include only the most notable professions. Being a "singer" (13 albums), "songwriter" (hundreds of entry on ASCAP/BMI + Songwriters Hall of Fame nominee), "actress" (21 film credits), and "businesswoman" (multiple business deals and companies) are what Madonna most known as. Bluesatellite (talk) 02:42, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

and having 44 dance hits doesn't make you a "dancer", but a dance musician. Bluesatellite (talk) 02:52, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

But I wasn't suggesting you list every profession she's ever had, but merely list the ONE THAT STARTED IT ALL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gN21t6W_TA Skatefan2014 (talk) 22:18, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Charity section

Could someone start one? I'd like to see this as a featured article again. The nomination link above, by the way, doesn't link to the reasons why this article was delisted as an FA.--108.30.35.45 (talk) 02:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Not sure if it warrants a separate section, but I've been meaning to work this up to FA-standard. As for why it was demoted, see Wikipedia:Featured article review/Madonna (entertainer)/archive1 where there were many sourcing issues. This isn't ready to be renominated yet, though. Snuggums (talk / edits) 06:37, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Net worth

Madonna's net worth is now $800m according to http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/singers/madonna-net-worth/ BurtDakarax (talk) 06:26, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

 Not done "Celebrity Net Worth" is not a reliable source Snuggums (talk / edits) 06:32, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Made this update in the infobox with a reliable reference (CNN). Girona7 (talk) 19:54, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Reverted. CNN mentions they took the info from Wealth-X, a gross unreliable source with no journalistic credibility. Please verify the content next time before blindly assuming that just its CNN, it would be ok to add it. Same for Billboard, BBC etc. —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 06:47, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

It would be helpful, IndianBio, if you didn't make assumptions about my editing and fact-checking processes before chiding me about them. For the record, I didn't "blindly assume" anything; I did look beyond CNN to the Wealth-X website, and it seems appropriate to me as a source. It is regularly used by top media outlets. In fact, an entire Wikipedia article on individuals of high net worth is based on research gathered by Wealth-X and UBS. Can you point me to a source or two to back up your claim that Wealth-X is "grossly unreliable"? Girona7 (talk) 19:51, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Girona I apologize since I did not mean it in a negative way about your fact checking. Thing is Wealth-X does not seem to be an authoritative source on the wealth calculation of celebrities and business tycoons and nowhere I could find any information as to how theu come to their wealth list calculations. That is why I said its unreliable. Just because it is used in another wikipedia article does not mean that we would deem it reliable as well. —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 05:46, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

@SNUGGUMS: I have found the Time source talking about the $800 million here. Can this be used? —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 08:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Absolutely, I'll go right ahead and include it! Snuggums (talk / edits) 08:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Falling off a stage.

Is this notable? It's been added 3 times by two different editors an removed 3 times by two different editors - including me. If there is consensus that it is encyclopedic then I am happy for it to remain. Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 14:05, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

No strong view. I was just taking a BBC News headline at face value. This is the rarified world of "mayja slebs", don't forget. Perhaps we should wait for a decent broken limb or concussion. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:13, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Defnitely worthy of inclusion in "Living For Love" song article, maybe Rebel Heart album, but not on bio page (for now). Snuggums (talk / edits) 15:22, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Madonna had a career of nearly 30 years. One fall on the stage during an award performance does not make it notable to include it on her biography. It's enough to have it in the 'Live performance' section on the "Living for Love" article. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 15:53, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

... you mean her career's now over?! Martinevans123 (talk) 15:55, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Lol. No -_-. I mean she had so many more important things that should be included on her bio page, not some stupid fall. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 15:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Unless it leads to something severe like when Lady Gaga had to cancel a month's worth of shows from her Born This Way Ball after a hip injury which led to surgery, I see no reason to include this particular incident on her bio page. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:22, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

p.s. it made UK national TV news. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:42, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

The most of distinctive bit of the Brits made the headline? --Richhoncho (talk) 22:45, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Martin, you've overlooked Tomica's point; just because it's in the news doesn't necessarily mean it warrants inclusion. Snuggums (talk / edits) 22:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for tripping over that. Rich is right, it was the most notable bit. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC) ... apparently it's called a brittfall. No-one's going to be foolish enough to search YouTube for "madonna sparta", are they?

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2015

Madonna Louise Ciccone was born to a Catholic family in Bay City, Michigan, on August 16, 1958. She is the eldest daughter of Silvio Anthony "Tony" Ciccone and Madonna Louise Fortin (c. 1933 – December 1, 1963).[3] Her father's parents were immigrants from Pacentro, Italy, while her mother was of French-Canadian ancestry.[4]

Madonna Louise Ciccone was born to a Catholic family in Bay City, Michigan, on August 16, 1958. She is the eldest daughter of Silvio Anthony "Tony" Ciccone (Italian pr.: tʃɪk’kɔnɛ; born 1931) and Madonna Louise Fortin (c. 1933 – December 1, 1963).[3] Her father's parents were immigrants from Pacentro, Italy, while her mother was of French-Canadian ancestry.[4]

Please add Italian pronunciation (tʃɪk’kɔnɛ), which differs from the English one, and Tony Ciccone's year of birth (born 1931), thanks. 89.184.104.3 (talk) 14:08, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

What source(s) give Tony's birth year as 1931 or that the Italian pronunciation is used? In any case, pronunciation goes in the lead section (which currently contains one) rather than article body. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:42, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2015

There needs to be a period instead of a comma after the phrase "unconventional behavior".

Original text: She was known for her high grade point average, and achieved notoriety for her unconventional behavior, she would perform cartwheels and handstands in the hallways between classes, dangle by her knees from the monkey bars during recess, and pull up her skirt during class—all so that the boys could see her underwear.

New text: She was known for her high grade point average, and achieved notoriety for her unconventional behavior.

Alera1 (talk) 12:41, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for pointing. —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 13:01, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 March 2015

"Madonna turned to her paternal grandmother in the hope of finding some solace and some form of her mother in her" shouldn't be changed into "Madonna turned to her maternal grandmother in the hope of finding some solace and some form of her mother in her"? Madonna spent time with her mother's mother in Bay City, didn't she? I think "paternal" is wrong. Saxkite (talk) 08:18, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. EoRdE6^{(Come Talk to Me!)} 18:21, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

§ Original text:Madonna turned to her paternal grandmother in the hope of finding some solace and some form of her mother in her.

New text:Madonna turned to her maternal grandmother in the hope of finding some solace and some form of her mother in her.

Paternal should be changed because Madonna used to spend her summers at her maternal grandmother.