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May 17

Parachuting

What special precautions (if any) must be taken when parachuting into a heavily forested area? 2601:646:8E01:515D:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 01:49, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper68.48.241.158 (talk) 02:30, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

That should be avoided if at all possible. The parachutist is likely to get hung up in a tree and need rescuing, so communication equipment and GPS would be needed, and water to drink until the rescuers arrive. Diapers might be a good idea, too. StuRat (talk) 02:34, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Also, try to avoid carrying large satchels of money, as D.B. Cooper did. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:44, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

I wonder if a specially designed parachute could be made that would allow the occupant to lower themself down on a rope to the ground. Depending on the height of the trees, it could be hundreds of feet down. Of course, there would still be the risk that they would hit a branch and be killed or incapacitated. StuRat (talk) 02:47, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Aside from pre-planning as you're suggesting, the best advice would be, "When parachuting into a forest, try to avoid trees." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:49, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

That might not be as silly as it sounds. Obviously, where you have complete tree cover, avoidance isn't possible. But if aiming for a clearing in the middle of forested area, a stunt parachute may help to steer it into the clearing. StuRat (talk) 15:17, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

For unintentional tree landings in sport parachuting, see the "Trees" subsection of 5-1F (General Recommendations / Skydiving Emergencies / Landing emergencies) of the USPA Skydiver's Information Manual. -- ToE 03:20, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

For paratroopers intentionally targeting forested areas, see Treejumping. -- ToE 03:31, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

For forestry personal, I would have expected us to have something under Fire jumper, but alas that link is currently red. see Smokejumper -- ToE 03:36, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

I created redirects from Fire jumper and Firejumper to Smokejumper. --Guy Macon (talk) 10:24, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Here's a publication from the FAA that includes both regulatory and advisory details on parachute landing areas (e.g., information about mandatory rules and optional decisions): from their advisory circular database, Report DOT/FAA/AR-11/30, Criteria for Parachute Landing Areas on Airports. In their section on hazards, they describe trees, and recommend sizes of areas at specific distances from dense trees. There are a lot of useful diagrams. More complex operations need more obstacle-clearance. The publication also references several Army sources for paradrop operations; if you actually do decide to go parachuting, those field manuals are sort of the "canonical" source of math and equations. For example, the FAA cites FM 3.21 Pathfinder Operations for equations on landing drop zone sizes. Obviously, consult your dive-master or parachute jump coordinator for more specific, current, local information.

More good reading: Advisory Circular 105-2D, Sport Parachuting; this government publication advises about hazard and obstacle avoidance, and references several other publications of the U.S. Parachuting Association as further reading. For example, here's the Skydiver's Information Manual, a lengthy 270-page book that includes the BSRs (Basic Safety Requirements). These are advisory rules - the Government doesn't enforce them, but FAA encourages you to learn from a reputable instructor, especially one affiliated with USPA, and to adhere to their safety rules. Per Federal Aviation Regulations parts 91.15, 105.21, 105.23, and 105.25, the Government doesn't really care what happens to you if you fall out of an airplane - as long as the pilot takes "reasonable precaution," and provided that you don't land on an airport, a congested area, or special use airspace. You can land on those things too, provided that you carefully comply with the rules. But if you splat on a tree, that's sort of on you; or, rather, you are on it.

Part 105 of the Federal Aviation Regulations does specify actual federal laws that pertain to parachute operations ("skydiving").

Nimur (talk) 04:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, all! ToE was especially helpful. Now, a follow-up question: Does Baseball Bugs's advice about large satchels of money also apply to carrying weapons and ammo? 2601:646:8E01:515D:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 11:29, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Well, the more weight you carry the larger the parachute would need to be to support that weight. At some point it would no longer fit in a backpack, but then an alternative deployment system can be used. Alternatively, ammo and supplies can be sent down on their own parachute. Not so good when there's just one jumper, because if he doesn't find and retrieve his supplies he is in rough shape. But with many jumpers, they will find at least some of the supplies and ammo. I wonder if a timed system could then be used to lower the supplies and ammo on a line after they hit the trees. (Some would get hung up, but not all.) StuRat (talk) 13:39, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Good -- that's just what I needed to know! 2601:646:8E01:515D:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 04:38, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Maybe read through the U.S. Army's Airborne School description. The life of an airborne infantryman is not an easy one. Before they let you jump at all, you have to be pretty prepared. Before they let you do a tactical jump with full equipment, there are a handful of requirements, including completion of Basic Combat Training (described in detail at the Army recruiting page). Weapons, ammunition, and jumping out of airplanes are each uniquely dangerous; there's a lot of prerequisite training to prepare yourself physically and mentally.

Nimur (talk) 14:02, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

“have to be pretty prepared.” Brain washed more like it! Here on Wikipedia many editors take exception to 'fringe science' . This is a good example of a 'so called' intervention that has not under gone any – repeat- any scientific randomised trials. Read: Parachute approach to evidence based medicine. So it also needs hating as we don't give answers to anything remotely medical in nature.--Aspro (talk) 19:30, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Nazi Luftwaffe parachute troops had it even tougher, hence carried less; see Fallschirmjäger#Uniforms_and_equipment Jim.henderson (talk) 22:59, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

This is a very strange "dig" to add to this specific question, I really can't figure out how it is at all relevant. It sounds like you've just been waiting for an opportunity to link this parachute paper you found somewhere. The fact is Randomized controlled trial are the gold standard, but of COURSE science recognizes that it is not always possible to test everything in a randomized controlled fashion. I know this article you linked is trying to be facetious but in my opinion it's crossing the line of disingenuous. Just because its not possible to test some things in a randomized fashion, does not mean we should accept a lower standard of evidence from other interventions that could be tested but haven't. you know there have even been medicines that were so effective that the trials were discontinued, since it was deemed unethical to not give the medicine to the placebo group. Vespine (talk) 23:16, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

The parachute paper is a famous piece of satire that was written by some highly-qualified medical researchers in order to present a point by way of a humorous counter-example. Deeply interested readers can research its authors for context on why they wrote it, and why the editors of a prestigious journal decided to publish it. From the "rapid responses" (electronic letters to the editors), you can get a quick feel for the spirit of the paper.

I really try not to use appeal-to-authority, but in this case... when you're the department head for a major research hospital, you're allowed to write a little bit of satire, even a piece as blunt as the parachute paper. I somewhat suspect that the contributor who reposted that journal paper here on the reference desk does not carry any equivalent such credential, so when he posts the same joke, the irony is completely lost.

In case any of our readers actually really don't understand, the paper is not advocating against the use of parachutes, nor is it making a sincere plea for any research related to parachute aeronautics of any kind. It is a paper whose thesis is a rhetorical question on the topic of how medical journals (and other peer-reviewed scientific journals) ought to set their editorial standards, as they pertain to the burden of proof.

Nimur (talk) 02:09, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Wait a minute, how did we jump from parachuting to medical research all of a sudden??? 2601:646:8E01:515D:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 02:41, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Another editor posted this comment. Nimur (talk) 03:25, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

@Aspro and Nimur: That paper fails to explain the main point of doing such a parachute study, which would be to have the FDA hand over many years of market exclusivity to the company doing it, including a likely patent term presuming the parachutes were tested with minor modifications. See colchicine, dihydroergotamine, evergreening etc. No one would do a study like this unless it meant an opportunity to monopolize parachute sales and raise the price 10,000% or more. Wnt (talk) 13:38, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Related:if you are reading historic or foreign sources, bear in mind that "forest" may not mean what you assume. Some have no trees, for example, and so would pose little difficulty to parachutists. From our article: "Although forest is a term of common parlance, there is no universally recognised precise definition, with more than 800 definitions of forest used around the world. Although a forest is usually defined by the presence of trees, under many definitions an area completely lacking trees may still be considered a forest if it grew trees in the past, will grow trees in the future, or was legally designated as a forest regardless of vegetation type."

Carbon Caryatid (talk) 10:00, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

References

bioengineering a space telescope lens

Could it be feasable or beneficial to develop a space telescope that incorporates biological material? For instance, using elecrowetting with synthetic electrolytes in order to create a superfluidic lens that can be spun in zero-G to generate a concave lense shape. Would this have an advantage over traditional designs (ie, self-repair in case of micrometeor strikes, curvature adjustability)?

119.171.79.241 (talk) 05:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it's me or you but I think you are mixing up some concepts which are not necessarily related. We have an article about Liquid mirror telescope which is directly related to what you are asking, but it does not seem like you need to involve biology, electrowetting or superfluidity. Unless you think somehow those factors would counteract the fact that I'm not sure simple spinning would stop the fluid from just floating off in zero G. Vespine (talk) 05:33, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Aaand we also have this artcile Liquid mirror space telescope. Vespine (talk) 05:36, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

There is high energy radiation in space that even has an aging impact on tough construction materials. Any biological material would either have to be very tough in multiple senses or its simply put in a very wrong place. --Kharon (talk) 02:49, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

• Space telescopes need phenomenally precise lenses – the Hubble Space Telescope was very nearly ruined by just a 10 nanometer error in the mirror grinding stage – and I doubt you could get practically achieve that precision with biological growth (you'd basically need every cell to be in exactly the right place). A non-biological liquid mirror telescope is already adjustable and (since it's just liquid) largely self-repairing. Smurrayinchester 08:30, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

If you read that link more carefully, the 10 nm tolerance was fine, and the mirror met that tolerance. The problem was not the tolerance; it was the shape, which was off by more than 200 times the tolerance at the edge. --Trovatore (talk) 20:07, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

I read it as a cumulative error (a 10 nm misalignment that built up towards the edge of the mirror), but I could be misreading it. If anyone knows better, please fix the article. Smurrayinchester 08:42, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Go/no go thread gauge

When you have a pair of Go/no go thread gauges, is the go male thread gauge supposed to screw freely into the go female thread gauge?

There are 4 possible combinations:

1. go male + go female

2. go male + no go female

3. no go male + go female

4. no go male + no go female

Which of the four is supposed to screw freely into the other? Johnson&Johnson&Son (talk) 06:35, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes. A "go" is essentially the "correct" version of the thread, so a go male will fit into a go female (case 1). A "no go" is the other test, it is NOT SUPPOSED to fit into the go thread, so case 2 and 3 should fail, (NOT fit more than 3 turns). Whether it is possible for a no go to fit into a no go is undefined to the test and i am not familiar enough with it to say if there is a 'common' or 'standard' resolution, i.e. if they "usually" do fit or usually do not fit, but it does not matter to their actual purpose. Vespine (talk) 06:47, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

• No it's not supposed to screw anywhere! They're both precise and hardened. Screwing gauges together like this is a route to damaging them. Especially when people "store" them screwed together like this (avoid all contact on the gauging faces in storage anyway).

The "go" gauge is intended to fit a workably sized thread. So the male go gauge should fit the female go gauge. The other combinations should not fit. The no go / no go combination won't work because the male is oversize and the female undersized, so it won't fit by two tolerances, not just one.

Note that it's not practical to use this sort of simple go/no go gauging to detect a faulty undersized male thread, or an oversized female. It is rarely seen that a "must not fit" gauge is produced where "no go" is then correct behaviour (ie an undersized female gauge used for detecting undersized male threads). These are rare though, as they create endless confusion with unfamiliar operators. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:32, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, you two. @Andy I know they're not supposed to be screwed against each other, but I need a way to check that I've been given properly tools and haven't been scammed, so this is a one-time emergency measure.

Since my go male + go female gauge won't screw into each other, there must be something wrong with at least one set of them. I called the seller about it for a replacement and he told me that they're designed not to fit into each other like that, since the male is "M27x0.75 6H" thread, and the female is a "M27x0.75 6g" thread and thus incompatible. Is this true？ How do I verify this? What he says does make sense, but then again he does have a financial incentive to mislead me. Johnson&Johnson&Son (talk) 11:01, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Free gases

Are there any free gases floating about in the solar system between the planets?--178.106.99.31 (talk) 21:13, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

See Interplanetary medium. CodeTalker (talk) 21:16, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

(ec) sure, there is. See interplanetary medium. On the outskirts of the Solar System it transitions, via a heliopause region, into interstellar medium. All along, it's a mixture of dust, neutral and ionized gas, with varying composition. You may also want to read plasma (physics) article,. --Dr Dima (talk) 21:25, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

So are the gases differnt depending on which planet you are near?--178.106.99.31 (talk) 21:54, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes. see Solar wind#Solar System effects. The solar wind interacts with the top layers of the planet's atmosphere, so that there is a persistent flux of matter from the planet's atmosphere into the interplanetary medium. The amount and composition of atmospheric material being stripped by the solar wind depends on the planet's mass, radius, orbit, atmosphere composition density and temperature profile, strength of the planet's magnetic field, and so on. Mars lost most of its atmosphere this way, while Venus, Earth, and the gas giants still have substantial atmospheres. I don't remember the Earth rate of atmospheric loss, but I'll add it here when I find it. --Dr Dima (talk) 22:57, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Here you go: Atmospheric escape. You may also want to read Atmosphere of Earth#Evolution of Earth's atmosphere. --Dr Dima (talk) 22:59, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

"Gas" is a mass of elemental molecules and most common Gases build pairs among their Particles/Atoms (Hydrogen=H₂=two Hydrogen atoms,O₂). But Atoms are far to scattered in Space to refere to them as a mass of elements or even Molecule. Outer Space Vacuum is "space void of matter" and thus the complete opposite. There are just a few atoms per cubic meter and that is commonly refered to as "particles" per Volume of space. So there is no "Gas" in Space at all. --Kharon (talk) 22:59, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

May 18

Polypropelyne capacitor marking

I have some PP capacitors marked with the letters MKT. What do these letters mean?--178.106.99.31 (talk) 14:10, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

It's a code for the type of capacitor construction. As noted at the Wikipedia article film capacitor and at this table here, MKT is code for "metallized polyester foil". I don't know that the letters directly stand for anything. --Jayron32 14:21, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Couldnt find it in the article before, but found it now. So my capacitors are polyester not polypropylene. It seems the M stands for metal, the T is from polyester and the K means?? So polyprop would be marked MKP. :)--178.106.99.31 (talk) 14:31, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

These codes were the German ISO 41379 ; (declared obsolete, [1]). See altungen this(de) document: the 'K' would be Kondensator (probably not 'Keramik'). See also in: [2] (by TDK), as you want to cross-check your deductions. --Askedonty (talk) 15:51, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

• MKT "Metallisierte Kunststofffolie aus Polyester (Polyethylenterephthalat) als Dielektrikum"
• MKP "Metallisierte Kunststofffolie aus Polypropylen als Dielektrik"

Guess as last letter was already occupied for Polypropylen they picked T for Terephthalat. --Kharon (talk) 22:31, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Ah! Sehr gut mein Herr. Danke schoen.--178.106.99.31 (talk) 23:10, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes. 'Kunststoff folie' seems to translate from German as 'plastic film' (or foil). So the K stands for....you guessed it. The WP page on film capacitors in the German edition seems to have more detail than english edition. But I cant read German to that level.--178.106.99.31 (talk) 15:52, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Seeking a Reference

Can I have some free links to references on continuous and descrete spectra (Quantum mechanics)?Sayan19ghosh99 (talk) 17:04, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Can you be more specific? I'm not sure there's anything in quantum mechanics that wouldn't count as continuous or discrete spectra (of operators). -- BenRG (talk) 19:40, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Spectral line will talk a bit about discrete spectrum. Hydrogen spectral series gives a specific example of discrete. The Continuous spectrum usually happens because of the present of free electrons which can have arbitrary energy. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:15, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Blackbody radiation may also be of interest here. --Jayron32 13:04, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Acctim radio controlled clock module

Does anyone know how to access the 60kHz signal that these clocks operate on? --178.106.99.31 (talk) 21:59, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

See Radio clock. It's just a CW signal, any radio receiver tunable to that frequency can pick it up. Tevildo (talk) 01:32, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

This is the detailed specification from NIST for the WWVB signal. Tevildo (talk) 01:51, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

You will actually need a specialised receiver, such as a communications receiver. Most receivers will not support frequencies that low, even radios designed for the long wave band. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:03, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Cat in a new home

Hi everybody, I have recently adopted an indoor cat from a lady who has had to return home to China. I was wondering what period of adjustment I should allow for the cat to get used to his new home and people, and if it would possible for him to be tempted to venture outdoors. I live in a fairly quiet part of the countryside in the UK, where it's normal for cats to go outdoors, and would like to give him the benefit of a natural cat lifestyle. Also, any advise on helping him to settle in would be appreciated. He is neutrered, microchipped, vaccinated and 9 months old. Thanks in advance --Andrew 22:16, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

He'll go out if he wants to, and vice versa. Fit a cat flap.--178.106.99.31 (talk) 22:44, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

If he's a totally indoors cat, letting up go outside could prove fatal. And if not, he could bring fleas into the house. But that's up to you. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, the benefit of a cat going outside is pretty much early death. As for getting used to new circumstances, cats can take months to make that sort of adjustment. - Nunh-huh 00:27, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

• I guess if your speaking as Americans, it's a cultural norm for cats to be kept indoors, across the pond. Here in Britain we see things differently, and you're in the minority if you own an indoor cat. Given that I live in a rural part of the country, I don't see any risks with his wellbeing, and see the benefits of him going out and being able to exhibit his natural behaviours. To me, there's nothing more unusual than seeing a cat on a leash, they love to be free to roam outdoors --Andrew 01:43, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm not talking about cultural norms, I'm talking about an actually shortened life. Average lifespan of an indoor cat is 12-15 years. Average lifespan of an outdoor cat is 2 to 3 years less. You could Google "Indoor and Outdoor Cat Life Expectancy Differences" to see if there's anything magical about being in the UK that reverses that. - Nunh-huh 04:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

• Well I suppose one advantage of living in the United Kingdom over the United States is the almost total absence of any predators that would like to eat the cat, except foxes, which aren't well known for attacking cats at all. In America, there's an abundance of predators --Andrew 17:49, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

• Are you doing this for the cat, or for you? Are there any roads near your place? Any large dogs? Any wild animals like foxes or coyotes? Are you OK with the fact your cat could be dead within days or even hours? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:07, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

I think that might be a little backwards. Cats really want to go outdoors. If you keep them indoors long enough, they sometimes forget there's such a thing as the outdoors, but they'll mourn heartbreakingly for a while until that happens. I wouldn't want to be kept prisoner just because I'm safer that way — why would I expect my cat to?

Letting a cat out is hard on the owners, though, when the cat doesn't come back at the time expected. If you have an indoor/outdoor cat, expect to have to worry sometimes. --Trovatore (talk) 02:45, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

In my experience, cats who have spent time outdoors want to be outdoors, and they'll pester you to let them out. Cats who have spent their entire lives indoors don't. They are not interested in the outdoors except to observe it through the windows. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:31, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

• There are compromises between inside and outdoors cats. You can have a fenced-in yard, and a cat door, so they can escape into the house if anything attacks. Being neutered keeps them from wandering quite so much. You can also sit in the yard with them, as they explore. Or, for the most paranoid, keep them inside, just open the window, but keep the screen in, so they get a good sniff. That does wonders for their mood with very little danger. StuRat (talk) 02:27, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

That's pretty funny Nunh-huh. My cats are happy outside and acclimatise to new things, such as moving house, within days. Obviously you have very special cats. Greglocock (talk) 02:38, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, well I guess you have genius cats and mine are a bit slow. Their inability to adjust to change may or may not be related. - Nunh-huh 04:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

As for how long it takes to adjust, it depends on the personality of the cat. I've had them take over a year to do so. Expect them to spend most of their time hiding until then. They might become comfortable with one person but not the rest of the family, first. I'd avoid letting them out then, as they might "go home" to their old house. StuRat (talk) 02:33, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

• Guys, cats are dumb animals and they're not all the same. I'm saying that as a cat person. My cat back home thought that the house was "outside," and thought that outside was Unknown Kadath. The one time I brought her outside (for all of five seconds at night), she buried herself to my chest nervously for the first three seconds, and upon seeing a tree taller than our house, clawed over my shoulder (only time she ever did that) to run back into the house. Once inside, she bolted to the end of the house furthest from the door and hid, coming out an hour later still shaky with a puffy tail and back hair. The few times she tried to explore outside before that, she saw the bright South Carolina sunlight and decided "screw that, I'll just sleep in Ian's lap for another hour."

That said, yes, cats were bred to live outdoors and get all sorts of endorphins killing local wildlife (they're hunters, deal with it). The difference, from the cat's perspective, is pretty much "would you rather spend your nights carousing with friends or staying home and planning a responsible diet?" The difference for the owners is really "do I want to put more work into their emotional well being or their physical well being?" Emotional? Indoor. Physical? Outdoor. No work? Don't get a pet.

As for OP's question, nine months old is basically a teenager. Yeah, sure, their entire world has been replaced, but they're still at an age to get used to it. Heck, my cat (14 years old, pushing 15) completely adjusted to my granddad's house after about a week. Ian.thomson (talk) 05:11, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

I react the same way when forced outside (except for sleeping in Ian's lap, that is). StuRat (talk) 05:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Best you provide food at an specific time and place each day and not to much. After a few weeks your cat will tune in and unpaiciently expect to be fed in sense of comming to and walking around you at that time. I guess then you are pretty save your cat has accepted his/her new home. --Kharon (talk) 06:43, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Most cats don't seem to overeat, especially if given dry food. (If I had to eat that, I wouldn't overeat either.)StuRat (talk) 15:52, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

My last six cats quickly made themselves at home, at ages ranging from three months to eight years. (The youngest was a bit feral and took a week or so, iirc.) The present pair are my first indoor-only cats; once in a while (including today, as it happens) they get out but quickly return when they find the Big Room to be chilly and strange. —Tamfang (talk) 09:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC

There is some advice on the subject here. Perhaps respondents to this thread should read this discussion about the pros and cons of the indoor/outdoor lifestyle and the difference in attitude in the UK and US or Australia. Richerman (talk) 09:37, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Agree with Richerman. Here in the UK we usually advise to keep them in for a period of time - maybe 6 weeks - until the cat is used to their new surroundings and to you as well. Then maybe let the cat out. Make sure the cat is microchipped - and if she already is, update the details on the chip record. Your vet will be able to do this for you. --TammyMoet (talk) 12:20, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

A cat's instinctive priority is to remain close to a 'reliable' food source. That is how cats domesticated man. When our forbears became farmers and stored cereal grain that attracted rodents -the cats moved in and have been with us ever since. Three weeks should be more than sufficient to establish the notion that you are providing such a reliable food source. Then, during the times when one is at home, leave the doors open. By then it will have become accustomed to your voice calling it for meals (I take it that you call its name when your ready to feed it). Once cat is back inside again one can close the doors. If you do not want to fit a cat-flap make sure there is a way for the cat to get on to a window ledge or someway that it can look through a window and attract you attention when it wants to be let in again. Foxes are on the increase in many parts of Britain so whether or not you fit a cat flap, look around to see if the cat has somewhere to climb to. If the house cat become secure in the feeling that it always has a safe refuge there is no reason why it should suffer acrophobia. Let the cat expand its horizons naturally. Also, a cats natural diet and metabolism requires meat protean. Not this modern pet food stuff that contains more than 50% vegetable protean with added vitamins. Per 100 grams it is cheaper to go to the supermarkets and buy a cheap frozen bulk bags of coley and beef mince (and don't forget kitchen scraps). The cat will appreciate it more and it will keep him healthier. Cat don't like very cold food though. So, deforest to room temperature and pussy will come back for more. At nine month old it will naturally start to forage due to instincts. It may soon be bring home the odd rat, half as big as himself and dump it on the kitchen door step. Praise such an instance. It is his way of showing that he is now able to contribute to the family that feeds him. As I said, cat domesticated man. So for a happy symbiotic relationship – don't use brain- allow the cat to guide you as to how to satisfy its needs and desires. It really is that simple when it comes to caring for cats.--Aspro (talk) 14:11, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Re: "deforest to room temperature", won't this deforestation deny them the trees they need for emergency escapes ? :-) StuRat (talk) 15:56, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Nice to no, that that you have tooken the bother two reed wot eye have rote :¬)--Aspro (talk) 12:57, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

It's very rare for urban foxes to kill cats [3] - they mostly ignore each other and, although they do occasionally fight, the fox often comes off worst. Cats do not have any other predators in the UK (and no, there are no coyotes). Richerman (talk) 17:01, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

True, but I have witnessed cats spooked by the presence of foxes and they avoid confrontation. That is probable why the statistics show that “fox attacks on cats are exceptionally rare”. I would also agree with your source written by Dr Pete Wedderburn BVM&S CertVR MRCVS that “Foxes are generally shy creatures that do their best to avoid contact with humans” but round my way they aren’t. This File:The_thirsty_fox.jpg is a photo of one of the foxes that drinks at my local pub. Give him a few years and I wouldn’t be surprised to find him standing beside me at the bar winking at all the barmaids. Just because someone has letters after his name doesn’t mean his utterances are to be taken as dependable guidance (after all he is a vet) – as it is promoting the fallacy argumentum ad verecundiam . One's cat 'needs' some where to take refuge and avoid confrontation.--Aspro (talk) 12:57, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

@Aspro, why is the fox anonomised in your photo - did he refuse to sign the model's waiver rights release form?  ;-) DrChrissy ^(talk) 16:47, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

As I am using the photo for editorial purposes only, I didn't think I needed the fox to sign a model release form. I might run the idea past him next time we meet, as I am sure he'll except a fee of yesterdays left-over Kentucky fried chicken wings. Here's hoping.--Aspro (talk) 20:10, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

There are cars, which run over animals all the time. Also, outdoors cats are more likely to be attacked by fleas and diseases. If the OP doesn't care what happens to his cat, then so be it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:04, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Don't forget dogs, and other cats, as in the case of intact males fighting. StuRat (talk) 03:43, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Bugs, you do your reputation and argument no good by continually bickering from a point of obvious ignorance and lack of experience. Many (if not almost all) cats in the UK wear 'flea collars' to avoid infestation and cats are more likely to get fleas from other cats and not the outdoors per se. It is very rare to see or hear of a cat killed by a vehicle in the UK, other animals, predominantly in rural areas, are killed more frequently but that is irrelevant to this argument. I am unclear what you mean by "other diseases". Your final sentence with its inflammatory emotional claim is crude and unhelpful. Richard Avery (talk) 06:41, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

I have worked in the veterinary profession for 20+ years, I lecture vet students on animal behaviour, and I am a cat owner living in rural UK (North Somerset, so plenty of dangerous foxes and badgers and drop bears). I believe the main concern about moving a cat to a new area and letting it out, is injuries caused by other cats. Cats have a great way of time-sharing their territories. They can determine how long it is since a previous cat was in the territory by sniffing the pheromones in each others urine. They avoid visiting the place too soon after another cat has been there, and so generally do not meet. However, if they do meet, they may fight. Cats are extremely dangerous when riled (they have 5 sets of weapons whereas dogs have only 1). The most likely wound that your cat might experience is a cat bite abscess. These usually occur on the cat's cheeks or the flank. Inspecting your cat or noting any tenderness when stroked will reveal an abscess early in development and you must seek veterinary advice immediately for antibiotics, otherwise this can become deeply infected and very expensive! Regarding the time taken to let the cat outdoors, this will depend a lot on his experience. If the cat is used to change and stimulation, he will be rather plastic (flexible) in his behaviour and will quickly adapt to his new environment; if he has had a less stimulating history it may be more fearful and unwilling to go out. In your favour is that he is still young and therefore naturally more inquisitive. Get a cat flap -- and give the cat the choice about inddors or outdoors. Don't let him out for the first 2 weeks, but establish where he gets his food. Then, take the plunge and open the cat flap. By the way, I have a male neutered cat who eats only dry food and is now so fat he can't get out the cat flap! - Very handy! Best of luck. DrChrissy ^(talk) 16:41, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Wholeheartedly agree. The OP's garden may already be the territory of another cat. Yet, as the OP lives in a fairly quiet part of the countryside- the pressure to defend territorial rights may not be that great. The other cat will sense that this new guy in town has a domicile and it owners will soon appear if they start hissing at the new kid on the block and will slowly back off – alothough perhaps, only after spraying urine over the poor little feller first (I make that six sets of offensive weapons).--Aspro (talk) 20:16, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

In that case, why don't you restrict his food supply and/or use diet food ? StuRat (talk) 16:48, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Believe me, I have tried the food restriction. It is my own poor behaviour as a pet owner, I accept this, but having a cat which meows constantly for food and scratches at the kitchen door to get to his bowl quickly becomes totally intolerable. I have weighed up the ethics and consequences of having an overweight cat and my own mental health, and in this case, my life comes first. I could try diet food, but these are expensive. I also have a second cat who eats normally, and I suspect my male would simply steal hers if he felt unsated. DrChrissy ^(talk) 17:05, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

By the way, I think I should explain that I think of animal welfare in terms of "feelings". It is the feelings of the animal that matter. My overweight cat does not know that his life is shortened by being overweight or that there is a higher risk of him becoming diabetic, so there is no animal welfare problem (although his "well-being" is sub-optimal). This can also be applied to the OP's question, some of the responses, and my suggestion to have a cat flap. If the OP's cat decides never to go out, I would argue that there is no welfare problem whatsoever, irrespective of the cat's domestication, breeding, hunting tendencies. Animals show us what they want and what they do not want. Allowing them to do this is (usually) the best way to maximise their welfare (again distinct from "well-being"). DrChrissy ^(talk) 17:39, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

The modern phenomena of morbid cat obesity is down to modern cat foods (got no references off -hand but just telling you in the nicest possible way) which contain cheap vegetable protein and often sugars. In other words, it is the waste from the food processing industry that is not fit for human consumption. I have no objection to the animal protein that is derived from waste which is not fit for human consumption because it is good for cats but I do object to vegetable and sugary stuff. Association is no proof of causation but the life expectancy of cats is decreasing and their health problems are increasing following the increasing popularity of modern cat foods. As you may well know and appreciate, cats thrive best on live caught prey complete with 'animal derived roughage' fur, bone, feathers and guts etc. Grant you, those little plastic tags around the leg of a racing pigeon and so on, may not have any nutritional value but we don't live in a perfect world. Second best, is to hunt around on supermarkets bargain shelves for out-of-date mince, fish fingers, etc. If one has a large chest freezer, get a friend with a wholesalers-card (they may run a restaurant or café or something) to take you along there. Feed this to him raw. Never even thought of doing a proper double blind test but try offering two bowls. One with cooked meat and one with raw. See which he goes for first – you can guess what I wager on the outcome. And don't forget kitchen scraps. Cats like bones, grizzle and all other sorts of things that their instincts tell them to chew upon. But they will only eat as much vegetable as takes their fancy and leave the rest. With modern pet food they have no choice but to eat the whole unhealthy homogeneous offering which costs more that providing a proper diet. The cat ends up having to eat more to satisfy its biological (meta-biological?) need for animal protein; and so becomes obese due to the vegetable and sugar content...Mind you, one might not want to mussel too up close to moggie during the weight loss processes do to ketosis which will give him very bad breath. --Aspro (talk) 20:21, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

If you put a pill in the cat's wet food, he will eat all the food except the pill, licked clean of gravy. :-) StuRat (talk) 02:00, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

May 19

Human height data

Can someone tell me where to find data about the distribution of human heights? More specifically, for adults in North America, or the USA, or Canada?

Thanks, CBHA (talk) 04:39, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Our article on Human height, has US specific age x growth and age x height graphs for males and females. Vespine (talk) 06:49, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Why do women prefer tall men (besides these reasons)....

there are exceptions of course, but women on the whole prefer taller men as mates. If you asked a woman who feels this way why she feels this way, she might say something about tall men being stronger, making her feel safe, etc.. And while all height might be *loosely* correlated with physical strength, we all know plenty of short people who are strong as oxen as well as many tall, skinny weaklings. Also, if you asked a woman who she found more attractive: a competitive strongman who was five-foot-2 or a man of slightly below average strength who was six foot two, and they were equal in all other ways, many woman would choose the tall guy.

So if we assume, for the sake of argument, that height is NOT a reliable proxy for physical strength, what are the other reasons for preferring tall partners? Is it considered a proxy for good physical health (related to strength, but not the same thing), or is it just some kind of inexplicable evolutionary behavior of which the woman herself is unconscious?--Captain Breakfast (talk) 07:15, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

There may be some opportunistic motivations such as you are describing ( if accurate however that there exists such thing as an homogeneous set of the "women" the way you are classifying them ). But if we are considering sets, there may be also a question of an image (resulting from the pattern and used in that hypothetical pattern of an element of one set considering those of an other set ). Selecting randomly one of the cloud links in the article image could lead you to the article microscope. If you were a woman you probably would not want to carry the device around, so there is some chance that too tall works too. My opinion is that the view you're exposing is probably accurate only as long as the market can absorb and afford to further increase the size of our SUV's, after this will become too expensive and the market crashes there is some chance we might come to observing the opposing trend. --Askedonty (talk) 07:51, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

• There are lots of studies – this gives a good overview. When done properly, evolutionary psychology (and other evolutionary studies) doesn't say "This trait evolved because it had this advantage" but rather "This trait evolved because it improved survival or reproductive for this reason" (see misconceptions about evolution). Evolution doesn't have a plan - it doesn't know that tall men are stronger - it's just a process of random mutations that have no real goal. So - assuming it's evolved and not cultural - women didn't evolve to prefer tall men because they're stronger, but maybe because the children of women who preferred tall men were more likely to survive to adulthood, or perhaps because tall men were able to defend and care for the woman better so she lived longer and had more children. Smurrayinchester 08:54, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

(Jayron32's answer to the question below reminds me that sexual selection may also play a role here - in theory, if tall men dominate in the population, women who are attracted to tall men have an advantage since they have more partners to chose from.) Smurrayinchester 14:19, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

• The "height is NOT a reliable proxy for physical strength" claim caught my eye. Assuming that this is an evolutionary trait (it may be cultural - it would be interesting to see any studies from Asian regions where humans are, on the average, shorter), evolutionary preferences do not have to be reliable. They just have to be right slightly more often than wrong. --Guy Macon (talk) 09:50, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

It exists at the least. I always wondered why my short Asian mom hoped I'd grow till 6 feet. Sheesh. That is not realistic when her husband's 5'8" and her family's way shorter than 5'9" (my actual height). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:49, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

A couple possibilities come to mind:

1) Age marker. If a male is tall, there's was good chance they were an adult, or at least old enough to father and hopefully care for children.

2) Health marker. Poor health, and in particular a protein-poor diet, can result in short height. So, a tall man is more likely to be healthy and have access to good food. StuRat (talk) 16:02, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Two words: Stiller... and Meara. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:34, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Sexual dimorphism is correlated with polygyny in animals. Last I looked, I think the figure for humans was somewhere on the curve around where 1.4 females per male fall, though I should recheck that. Wnt (talk) 23:08, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Evolutionary body hair reduction in females

Both female and male apes, including chimps who are regarded as the closest relatives of humans, are fairly hirsute. Human females, however, became less hirsute during evolution, losing facial and most of body hair, compared to males. Why is that?--93.174.25.12 (talk) 09:33, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Who says so? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:44, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Excuse my learned colleague, he always answers a question with another one. There doesn't seem to be one accepted hypothesis, but Evolution and Prehistory: The Human Challenge by William A. Haviland, Dana Walrath et al (p. 158) presents the argument that the human body hair pattern is the result of a large brain and a bipedal gait; the "Wheeler" mentioned seems to be Professor Peter Wheeler. There's also the now largely discredited Aquatic ape hypothesis, which puts our hair pattern down to spending a lot of time up to our necks in water at an early stage of our evolution. Alansplodge (talk) 12:45, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Not always, just when an OP's premise is based on facts not in evidence. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:33, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

What? Are you asking for a citation for the statement that most women don't have beards? CodeTalker (talk) 20:20, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Many men have sparse facial hair and/or body hair. And many women have some facial hair and certainly leg and underarm hair. The OP's premise is flawed. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:51, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

There is also the general concept of sexual selection; traits desirable for mating get passed on to future generations. Those traits don't have to be "advantageous", they just need to make one's mate horny. --Jayron32 13:02, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Sexual selection is the only theory thus far that explains the sexual dimorphism seen in the hair patterns of men and women. Halting of hair development at the juvenile stage or Vellus hair is consistent with men preferring juvenile characteristics in a breeding partner, evident today in the near total removal of pubic hair in pornography for male consumption. A rationalisation that body hair might conceal the female's state of health can be related to medieval witch-hunts when an alleged witch would be shaved to discover the so-called Witches' mark on her body. AllBestFaith (talk) 13:18, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

A twist on the sexual selection theme is the suggestion in Evolution and Human Sexual Behavior by Peter B. Gray, that body hair is associated with sebaceous glands and apocrine glands which make men smell stronger than women; women also have a better sense of smell than men, which "fluctuates across the ovulatory cycle" making women "more aware of male scents at times when it may matter most". Alansplodge (talk) 16:08, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, not a better sense of smell, a differently selective one. Counting everything, they may have a number of sensitive advantages which, those amongst them using male distraction as a useful extension to their own set of camouflage, allows them to point smarter. --Askedonty (talk) 22:25, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Clothing (wearing furs, initially) is likely a factor in both reduction of thickness in hair in males and females (and even more so in children). That is, one of the main advantages of a thick coat of hair, keeping warm when it's cold out, was no longer an issue. The advantages of less hair include increased effectiveness in cooling by sweating, which would be important where humans first evolved, in Africa. Other benefits include fewer skin parasites, like fleas and lice. This doesn't directly address the Q of why there would be a differences between males and females, but once there was a mix of genes for "less hair" and "more hair", this allowed sexual selection to occur. StuRat (talk) 16:09, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

A reference for StuRat's post above. Alansplodge (talk) 16:13, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Was the African savannah ever cold? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:47, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Currently it's "consistently cool to cold at night" [4] although that's relative - 15 degrees Celsius. Still a bit chilly if you're naked I should think. Alansplodge (talk) 17:27, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

I guess the savannah's pretty high and/or dry then. York, Nebraska is a grassland 41° from the equator, 0.5km above sea level, has hardly any heat island and averages 17.6°C lows in mid-summer. Singapore#Climate's record low is only 19.4°C! Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:44, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Naked and possibly wet, if it just rained, and children would be particularly vulnerable to losing body heat, especially when windy. But with some nice furs to wrap around the kids, they should stay warm even in a storm. StuRat (talk) 03:38, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Where in a plasmid map is 0 bp?

Since a plasmid is circular, is there some convention for determining where it starts (like the origin of replication?) when producing a plasmid map with indicators regarding the map length (the ruler which marks every, say, 1000 bp)? --129.215.47.59 (talk) 12:38, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

See here. The covention is to start numbering base pairs at the point in the plasmid known as the ORI, or "Origin of Replication". The Wikipedia article titled Origin of replication also has some discussion of plasmids. --Jayron32 13:24, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Can grape consumption kill true foxes?

--Romanophile (talk) 16:47, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

This PhD dissertation [5] says, with further citation, that foxes eat grapes sometimes. Remember the dose makes the poison, and this evidence of foxes eating grapes does not contraindicate toxicity (i.e. LD50) at high doses. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

I doubt anyone knows for sure. We don't really know what causes grape and raisin toxicity in dogs, and the phenomenon wasn't noticed until relatively recently. As many dogs have eaten grapes/raisins without any apparent symptoms, there have been suggestions that it might not be the grapes directly but rather something associated with them such as a pesticide or fungus that is actually the toxic agent, but at the moment we don't know what it is about grapes that sometimes makes some dogs sick. Out of an abundance of caution, vets generally advise both dogs and cats to avoid grapes (though cats are unlikely to eat grapes and have never been documented to have a bad reaction [6]). For what it is worth, thepetfox.net says that most foods that are bad for dogs are also bad for foxes and that foxes should not be allowed to eat grapes and raisins [7]. Dragons flight (talk) 17:40, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Light trajectory inside a rocket at uniform speed

Hi, I'm starting to study General relativity and there is something that I can´t understand. If we are in a place without gravity inside a rocket with no movement and we turn on a flash light we will see the light trajectory as a straight line, for example, horizontal. If we accelerate the rocket up, so will see the light doing a curved trajectory as parable with inclination proportional to acceleration. In this explanation sometimes books give us example that the rocket moves faster each time interval and so the trajectory inside behaves as a parable. So my question is "Whats happen if the rocket is moving up at uniform speed and we turn on a flash light ? The trajectory of light will be a straight line horizontal or a straight line inclined down and with inclination proportional to speed ?" Suppose that my flash light is placed horizontal at left side at middle height of rocket.

If I think that the rocket at uniform speed has the same behave as a rocket with no movement, I will conclude that light trajectory will be a straight lin horizontal with no inclination. But if I think of explanation that while light is moving from one side to another, and during this time the rocket it´s also moving, I will conclude that light trajectory it should be a straight line with down inclination.

How can I explain and solve that ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Futurengineer (talk • contribs) 18:05, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

You question really concerns the special relativity not general relativity since the speed is constant. You can also read aberration of light article. Ruslik_Zero 20:34, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Since the motion is uniform, it's equivalent to view the rocket as moving past other objects, or as stationary while other objects move past it. In the frame of the rocket, it is stationary and the beam moves in a straight line horizontally. In the frame of an object which the rocket is traveling past, the rocket is moving at a constant speed and the light beam is moving at an angle (no longer horizontal) slanted in the direction of the rocket's movement, but still a straight line. CodeTalker (talk) 21:40, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Chermetids

What are chermetids? Cave insect mentions these animals in the penultimate section of its intro, and unlike all other animals in that area, chermetids is a redlink. A Google search pointed me to [8], which says The false scorpions, Chermetidæ, may at once be recognized... (this is in the original printing, not an OCR error), but no such name appears at Pseudoscorpion, the target of the False scorpion redirect. Is this perhaps a typo for Chernetidae? Nyttend (talk) 19:06, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

It would seem also certainly to be a typo, since Chernetidae is a family of pseudoscorpions. Typing m for n would be easy to do. --Jayron32 19:15, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

If it is a typo, then it is both very old and very persisent: 120 google books [9], spanning at least 1886-1999. Here [10] are a few rather divergent bibliographic entries for the same work of Menge, who is the name authority for Chernetidae. It seems that he probably intended to give the family a name starting with "chern", but "Chernetiden" one spelling offered by google. Without seeing the original book (or perhaps Chamberlin (1931) or Beier (1932) as per [11]), it's hard to say for sure what happened.

Anyway, I agree that the words "chermetid" and "chermeditae" will almost surely refer to a family of psuedoscorpions also known as Chernetidae. I don't know what WP policy is when we cite a source that seems to have a mistaken spelling. Probably some big argument about truth vs. verifiability... I see now that someone has redirected chermetid to chernetidae, which either fixes the problem or exacerbates it, depending on your viewpoint and the value you place on adherence to proper taxonomic names ;) SemanticMantis (talk) 20:13, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Just remember, "verifiable" means "able to be shown to be true". Verifiability not truth does not mean we are bound to repeat errors merely because they were recorded. --Jayron32 21:57, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

The distinction is apt, and relevant to WP in general as well as this matter in particular. In case it's not clear, I am well familiar with the dictionary definition of verifiability, and I thought I was making an obvious allusion to Wikipedia:Verifiability,_not_truth. I honestly cannot tell what the truth of the history is, or if perhaps ICZN views the names as synonymous in the limited sense of Synonym_(taxonomy). In this case, the name of the family is verifiably Chermiditae. It is also verifiably Chernitidae. If anyone thinks that is impossible, then I encourage them to practice belief in impossible things. Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast [12] :)SemanticMantis (talk) 22:23, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Regardless of sourcing, Wikipedia is not supposed to be in the business of posting information that is demonstrably false. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:04, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

The presence of multiple printed sources with the same misspelling is easily sufficient for creating a redirect for the wrong spelling; see {{R from misspelling}}, which I didn't use when creating the chermetid redirect. It's not fundamentally different from pages such as Threshhold and Millenium, which exist for the sake of people who misspell it themselves or people who might find the spelling error in print without knowing how properly to spell it. Nyttend (talk) 02:07, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Lifeboats

Looking at http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2016/05/18/royal-caribbean-harmony-first-look/84437986/ ("Exclusive: Inside the largest cruise ship ever built") I am having a hard time believing that that many lifeboats could possibly hold "6,780 people, not including crew". Looking into it further, I found http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2013/01/articles/sinking/titanic-redux-can-royal-caribbean-safely-evacuate-8500-passengers-crew-from-the-oasis-of-the-seas/ ("Titanic Redux? Can Royal Caribbean Safely Evacuate 8,500 Passengers & Crew from the Oasis of the Seas?") But what if the ship lists before the evacuation starts? Will the lifeboats and rafts on the high side be usable? And how fast can that many people evacuate without trampling each other? --Guy Macon (talk) 21:11, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

There was "lifeboat sticking out technology" as early as the Britannic 1914. It would be stupid for the to regress. I believe they could even carry the lifeboat over the ship and launch from the other side if there was too much list. Not sure. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:55, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

"lifeboat sticking out technology". Davit. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:57, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

That would not have helped Titanic, whose problem was the removal of lifeboats from the ship before it set sail. Which takes us back to the OP's question: Do these ginormous cruise ships have enough lifeboats, or are the operators gambling with their passengers' lives, as the operators of Titanic did? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:03, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Our article MS Oasis of the Seas points to this short feature on the lifeboats, fwiw. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:09, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Nobody was gambling with passengers' lives. The British Board of Trade recognized a couple of decades before Titanic that the largest of ships were always travelling in shipping lanes and these lanes were now so heavily travelled that there would (or should) never be more than a few miles between ships. In an emergency, ships would be able to summon aid by firing rockets or signalling with semaphore light. The uptake of radio technology confirmed that aid could be summoned rapidly, and lifeboats were regarded as necessary only for transferring passengers to the rescue ship(s). Why go to the expense of providing lifeboats for everyone on board when the biggest and newest ships with watertight compartments could be expected to float for many hours and rescue would be close at hand. It was in fact a good decision, but everything went very wrong for the Titanic because the officers on the Californian failed to recognize her rockets as a sign of distress and their radio man was off duty, and more importantly, was not woken. Titanic actually carried four more lifeboats than required by the BOT. The findings by both the American and British inquiries that there had been not enough lifeboats was wrong and a cave-in to the desire to spread the blame as widely as possible so that no living person could be found to have been at fault. Captain Smith took part of the blame for travelling too fast, but the blame should almost entirely have gone to the officers and captain of the Californian. Justice is not just about the letter of the law. It's also about minimizing the guilt felt by those at fault who have to go on with their lives. Akld guy (talk) 04:49, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Making the assumption that a nearby ship would rescue them is certainly a gamble. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:26, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

It would have been better if, when reducing the number of lifeboats, it had been made mandatory for ships' radios to be manned continuously. Also, many of the Titanic's lifeboats moved off with only a few people on board. 78.145.24.30 (talk) 11:19, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

The number of lifeboats was not reduced; it was simply not increased as ships' tonnages grew greater. That was in the early 1890s, 10 years before the dawn of radio and 15 years or so before it became routine for ships to carry it. The lifeboats were not carrying their full capacity because in the early stages, passengers could not be convinced that the ship was sinking. It was only when the angle of the deck became alarming that the reality set in. Akld guy (talk) 23:45, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes. For White Star to have blamed others for the negligence of the Titanic operators is really cynical. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:49, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia has articles about the Titanic radio operators Harold Bride "considered one of the heroes of the disaster" and his senior Jack Phillips who perished. AllBestFaith (talk) 23:17, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Titanic's radio operators were employed by the Marconi company, not the shipping line. They had a conflict of interest, in that they were obliged to make money for Marconi by relaying passengers' revenue-earning messages and they naturally gave those messages priority over shipping movement messages and warnings. So there was the "Shut up, keep out, I am working Cape Race [with passengers' messages]" retort at one point. Akld guy (talk) 23:55, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Anyhow, you may be interested in Mega Lifeboat: "Schat-Harding has developed a 370-person lifeboat and davit system. The Oasis of the Seas cruise ship was the first vessel to be fitted with these new mega lifeboats... Oasis of the Sea is fitted with 18 of the new mega lifeboats. A total of over 44 of the traditional 150 persons lifeboats would have to be fitted to accommodate the same number of passengers. Oasis of the Seas has an overall length of 360m. The typical length of a 150 person lifeboat would be approximately 9.6m. So if fitted at a single level they would take up a length of over 210m (noise-to-tail) on each side of the vessel." Alansplodge (talk) 17:24, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Sense of smell

Do women haved a better sense of smell than men? My gf is always complaining of my smelly feet but I cant smell them at all.--178.106.99.31 (talk) 23:47, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

I've known women who had no sense of smell at all, and others whose sense of smell was very acute. It could also be that you're used to your own scents, so you don't notice. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:56, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Here is a good start for your research. --Jayron32 03:04, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

To avoid smelly feet, take your shoes off when not walking. This lets heat and moisture out, and air in, which keeps the microbes from growing out of control. Shoes that allow for airflow are also a good idea, but I've never found any shoes, short of sandals, to provide sufficient airflow. StuRat (talk) 03:31, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

BB hit on two key points. Your sample size is apparently 2. You could just as well ask do people with red hair have a better sense of smell? Or, do people with green eyes have a better sense of smell? Or, do people from Irish descent have a better sense of smell? (I don't know if your girlfriend has red hair, green eyes or Irish descent and you don't, but you get the idea.) In other words, while any of these may or may not be true, there's no particular reason to think of them based on the data you've provided. We're only talking averages here and your girlfriend's suggested better sense of smell may just be because she's different from you and not any particular characteristic. Also olfactory fatigue or other factors related to the fact that it's your own odour may reduce your sensitivity to it. (Although I admit I couldn't actually find good sources discussion olfactory fatigue relating to body odour. There was only [13] where a group testing female responses to male body odour included a break due to the risk of olfactory fatigue/adaptation.) Nil Einne (talk) 12:43, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes they do! "...women's superiority in episodic odor memory is largely mediated by their higher proficiency in odor identification."[14] DrChrissy ^(talk) 17:13, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Not unequivocally. The source[15] cited also states "No sex differences were observed in the tasks tapping primarily sensory acuity (i.e., odor sensitivity, intensity discrimination, and quality discrimination) or in episodic memory for unfamiliar odors." AllBestFaith (talk) 23:05, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

May 20

Diamond in a rock tumbler

What if you put a big diamond in a rock tumbler? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:55, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Define "big". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:43, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Like the size of a grape, but maybe the size wouldn't matter. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:46, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

The size might well matter, as more surface area could take longer to polish. The illustration doesn't have a scale, but some of the types of rocks suggest grape size or larger. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:51, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

But would it polish or just stay the same forever? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:59, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

If you're using standard polishing materials, it wouldn't polish as the prices relies on being able to scratch and smooth the surface. More likely the diamond would shatter or crack as they are brittle and easily chip along cleavages planes. You buffed with other diamonds, you could cut and polish it. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 03:09, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Rhenium diboride can be made harder than diamond, so you could polish diamonds with that. However, a polished diamond would just look like a glass marble. It's the facets that make them sparkle, and you get those by cleaving diamonds, not polishing them. StuRat (talk) 03:27, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Very interesting. Thank you so much you two. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:37, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

It is a misunderstanding of hardness to assume that because diamond is harder than the other minerals involved, it will not be abraded at all. Diamond tipped drill bits do wear out, and have to be replaced - just not as often as other drill bits. When two minerals of differing hardness rub together, both are abraded - but the softer one is abraded much more quickly than the harder one. 86.141.19.154 (talk) 12:14, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

As an engineer who has done a lot of work with matterials rubbng and weraing, I can tell you that it is a well-known effect that the intuitive "the softer surface is abraded much more quickly than the harder surface" only hold true when both surfaces are harder than silicon dioxide (a major component of dust and dirt). If you have, say, teflon rubbing against stainless steel, the metal wears out. That's because little bits of dust get embedded in the soft plastic and act like a file to wear down the metal. --Guy Macon (talk) 15:59, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

• Hi User:Anna Frodesiak, interesting question as usual! If you'd like some scientific reference for rock tumbling: Here [16] is a whole study that gives empirical results on how size and shape of particles influence roundness, abrasion, and size reduction in the end product. Then they develop a theoretical model based on that that uses exponential functions to predict/relate how the various factors influence the tumbling process. A very nice little paper, IMO. While you could tumble larger diamonds in diamond dust, you could also tumble raisin-sized diamonds together and they would performs abrading action on themselves. Industrial diamonds are also sometimes prepared using a tumbling mill, see here [17] for a study involving that and a new way to impregnate diamonds in cutting tools. SemanticMantis (talk) 13:35, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Dinosaur skeletons

Are most dinosaur skeletons found in pieces and not assembled together? 50.68.118.24 (talk) 04:02, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, in fact only a few bones may be found. A fully intact and articulated dinosaur skeleton is a rare find. But, since scientists can put them together in the proper order, and make fake bone to fill in for any missing pieces, it's not a problem. StuRat (talk) 04:11, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Of course it's been a problem. See here, for example. Or for a less academic source, here. --69.159.60.83 (talk) 06:38, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Leave it to Stu to reduce an entire scientific discipline (shaped over centuries, with many famous debates over validity of reconstructions) to "not a problem." :) SemanticMantis (talk) 13:47, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Here [18] is a link to piece from the Smithsonian that describes how scientists attempt to correctly reconstruct dinosaur skeletons from partial finds, and here [19] is another discussion of the topic from Ohio University. Sometimes nearly a whole animal is fossilized, this is called a Lagerstätte. SemanticMantis (talk) 13:56, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Equal distribution

(moved to math desk here [20] SemanticMantis (talk) 17:50, 20 May 2016 (UTC))

Capacitor information sought

I have found amongst my components what I think are polystyrene capacitors hermetically sealed in metal cans. The wires come out via glass to metal seals. The only printing on the cans is 'KS'at the top, then the value in pF (confirmed with a capacitance meter) and the voltage then a long number and finally at the bottom what appears to be a date code like 8/88 or 1/89. I have searched the web to find who might have made these units without avail. Can anyone tell me where to search to find details on these units?--178.106.99.31 (talk) 16:58, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

KS stands for Polystyrene Film/Foil capacitor. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the manufacturer. --Jayron32 17:38, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

May I ask why the OP wants to know. If he is a radio-ham or old wireless repairer and thinks he may be able to use them, then all that is required is pF and the voltage rating. Being polystyrene they are not electrolytic nor tantalum or anything else but ones exhibiting polystyrene caricaturistics. I think 8/88 is more likely the batch code. These low value pF capacitors in metal cans with glass to metal seals became obsolete many years before 1988. Cut one open, is it really polystyrene or waxed/varnished paper? A photo may help to identify the manufacture and locate the data sheets. But it would help to know why.--Aspro (talk) 21:03, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

I dont have a specific application in mind. Just thought if they were stable capacitors I may be able to use them as references or something. But Im curious as to why these should be sealed in cans. Is it something to do with preventing moisture ingress?--178.106.99.31 (talk) 16:14, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Staphylea colchica flowers

(I'm posting this here rather than at Talk:Staphylea colchica because I suspect that will not get seen). The article currently says "orange flowers"; but the illustration (like the example I saw this week at Nostell Priory) has white flowers. I notice that the external reference (for which I have just found and added an archived link) also shows white flowers, and has the text "Orange blossom fragrant flowers". This is a strange way of saying "orange flowers", and my hypothesis is that it means "flowers with the fragrance of orange blossom". Anybody got any thoughts (or knowledge!) on this? --ColinFine (talk) 21:18, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

I think you're right. I think the flowers smell either like orange flowers or maybe have a citrus scent. Dave's garden [21] says "white or near white" while the eminently reliable Missouri Botanical Garden says "greenish white" [22] and also describes the flower as fragrant. I felt WP:BOLD and removed the confusing "orange" bit from the article, as I cannot even find evidence of an orange-blooming variant. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:27, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Are both soft and hard brake checks dangerous?

Could safety be improved by a soft brake check? After all, this could get a tailgating car off your tail. --Llaanngg (talk) 23:28, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Maybe? It might also start a positive feedback loop of braking that suddenly slows traffic or causes a 13-car crash. The butterfly effect-like mechanics is very complicated. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:16, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

This article seems relevant to your question. --Jayron32 00:17, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

May 21

What form can "HCO" can have?

49.135.2.215 (talk) 01:01, 21 May 2016 (UTC)Like sushi

What context? What do you mean by HCO? --Jayron32 01:03, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Assuming it's a chemical formula, HCO doesn't exist. H₂CO is formaldehyde. See HCO (disambiguation) for other possible meanings. Tevildo (talk) 12:22, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

There is no stable molecular or ionic configuration of one hydrogen, one carbon and one oxygen atom. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:17, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Hydrogen inbetween Lithium films? Helium inbetween carbon films? Spherical spaces in carbon, silicon, or "sulfer glass"?

(I would not surely be back)

49.135.2.215 (talk) 01:31, 21 May 2016 (UTC)Like sushi

You've been back several times despite promises to never return. Since you keep coming back, can you elaborate on your questions. Your questions are hard to understand because you rarely explain exactly what you are looking for. --Jayron32 03:29, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

500 tons of TNT

In this YouTube video (which is likely from the Discovery Channel or the History Channel), the narrator says that 500 tons of TNT is capable of leveling a "small city". I'm having trouble imagining a non-nuclear weapon that could destroy a city. Is that accurate? — Melab±1 ☎ 02:44, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article titled TNT equivalent may help you in you research. It is worth noting that energy is energy; nuclear bombs are not magic destruction spells. The Hiroshima bomb was only about 30x as powerful as that (15000 tons of TNT), and it was leveled; Hiroshima is a fairly large city. It would of course depend on how you define a "small city". The Halifax explosion was 6x the size of that, was amazingly destructive, it destroyed everything in a 2.6 km radius. --Jayron32 03:27, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

See also Largest artificial non-nuclear explosions, which has a list of large explosions, and gives the destruction caused by some. Note that air bursts tend to be more destructive that ground-level blasts. LongHairedFop (talk) 09:32, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

(Fixed your link.) --69.159.60.83 (talk) 09:43, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

(Fixed your link.) too. --Llaanngg (talk) 14:52, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Not only do you have to define "small city", you have to define "destroy". Would it turn a small city into a crater? No, not unless your city is like, one building. Could it render every building uninhabitable? Maybe. From playing with various blast-radius calculators on the internet, it seems like a 500 ton air burst could theoretically damage every structure in a half a kilometer radius. There are "cities" smaller than that, though they may be cities in name only. Someguy1221 (talk) 10:52, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Does a pin get blunter without being used?

Imagine a perfectly sharp steel pin, never having been used, put inside a vacuum sealed container, and that container being surrounded by a metre of lead and then a 3 metres of bronze, and the whole kept at a low temperature. If a million years were to pass, would that needle be as sharp as the day it was put away? How about a billion years? I am thinking about the possibility of random quantum effects gradually making the point less sharp. Would a higher temperature make the process of blunting the needle faster? Given enough time, say quadrillions of years, would the needle become a shapeless mass, even though no force other than quantum effects came into play. Myles325a (talk) 07:06, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Theoretically in 10⁶⁵ years, all solid matter will have been rearranged into spheres through quantum effects. See Timeline of the far future for some more bizarre but plausible predictions about what might happen. Someguy1221 (talk) 11:00, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm just wondering who's going to pay the electric bill to run the refrigerator during those quadrillion years. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:08, 21 May 2016 (UTC)