Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine

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Merged Archive WikiProject Preclinical medicine: 1 Merged Archive WikiProject Clinical medicine: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 WikiProject Medicine Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172

4th WP:FAC nomination of β-Hydroxy β-methylbutyric acid

Resolved

Beta-Hydroxy beta-methylbutyric acid

Since this article is now a GA, I re-nominated this article at FAC a little under 2 weeks ago: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Beta-Hydroxy beta-methylbutyric acid/archive4.

It would be very helpful and very much appreciated if other editors from this WikiProject would comment and review the article against the WP:Featured article criteria. It is incredibly difficult to get a pharmacology article promoted at FAC, and unless editors who are familiar with the subject matter (i.e., editors from WP:MED/WP:PHARM/WP:MCB) review and comment on a pharmacology nomination at FAC, it very likely will not be promoted. For instance, amphetamine required five consecutive featured article nominations before being promoted in WP:Featured article candidates/Amphetamine/archive5 for that very reason.

So, if you're an active editor at WT:MED and edit drug articles on a somewhat regular basis, your input at the this nomination would be invaluable. Moreover, if any of you intends to nominate a drug article at FAC at some point in the future, reviewing another pharmacology nomination as well as reading the reviews by other editors at that nomination will give you a good idea of what to expect and prepare for at your own FAC nomination(s).

For those who haven't reviewed an article at FAC before, this is the "FAQ" page for reviewing articles at FAC. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 03:38, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Seppi333, I did the GA review on Norepinephrine but I couldn't do an FA review on my own for the first time. So I would be glad to help with the review and think if we could find another co-reviewer then this could really happen. I know there are biochemists in the project but can't recall who they are at the moment. I have created articles on medications, a degree in chemistry and coursework in pharmacology. I can't evaluate the referencing of an article because, well, I'm not the best editor for this task. The guild of copy editors might like to help. I would really be thrilled to see this happen. Best Regards, Barbara (WVS) ✐  ✉ 13:08, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

The main difference between reviewing a FAC and a GA candidate is that there's no official reviewer or structured process for reviewing and the reviewers aren't the ones who decide whether or not the article is promoted or fails the FAC process, although there are structured review criteria. To review a FAC, you basically just add your comments about the article's compliance with the FA criteria to the FAC nomination page and, if the nomination has received sufficient support within 2 months of the nomination date, the FAC coordinators will promote it; otherwise, the nomination is archived (i.e., the article fails).

Just to clarify: the FAC coordinators decide whether or not an article is promoted based upon their assessment of the consensus among reviewers about its compliance with the FA criteria. If 3 reviewers oppose for a stupid reason (e.g., "I just don't like it") and 5 support it after extensively reviewing the article against the criteria, the coordinators will probably promote the article to FA status. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 02:55, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

As of right now, only 1 reviewer supports the promotion of this candidate and 0 reviewers oppose it. There's a lot of comments/discussion at the moment though. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 07:18, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

I have also contributed. It would be appreciated if other editors could put in their 2¢ given that this is the fourth nomination. --Tom (LT) (talk) 00:10, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

FYI

 – this nomination will be reviewed by a FAC coordinator and archived or promoted sometime on or around March 15th.

In other words, there's only 1 month or so left to review this article at FAC. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 05:40, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I think this article might actually be promoted to FA status this time around. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 00:18, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Kudos to Seppi333 and all who did the heavy lift for this FAC! — soupvector (talk) 16:07, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Great job Seppi333! Thank you for all your hard work and perseverance. Boghog (talk) 16:47, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks guys. This article wouldn't have been promoted had it not been for the input from editors affiliated with this WikiProject, so I wanted to thank everyone from WP:MED who provided constructive feedback/comments or otherwise assisted with reviewing this article in any of the 4 featured article nominations (@Doc James, Jytdog, WhatamIdoing, Sizeofint, Axl, CFCF, Tom (LT), DePiep, Soupvector, Evolution and evolvability, and Barbara (WVS): i.e., you).  Thank you very much! Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 01:20, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

@Boghog: exactly like the previous article you helped me with, getting this article promoted to FA status likely wouldn't have been possible without your assistance with writing the chemistry section or as a co-nominator at FAC. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 01:20, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Congrats... Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:37, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

well done!--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 10:11, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Congratulations! You did all the work and deserve all the credit. Ping me when you want a review of your next FA. You should be proud to have brought the article to such a high level of scholarship. I admire your editing. The Very Best of Regards, Barbara ✐  ✉ 15:57, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Effects of a Vegan Diet on Type 2 Diabetes

This new article, apparently created by a student as a class assignment, could use review by a medical expert for compliance with Wikipedia policy. Thank you. 108.16.196.194 (talk) 11:55, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

That was bad; have blanked and redirected to Veganism#Health effects where there are at least some reliable pertinent sources for this topic. Alexbrn (talk) 13:08, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

In that case, other pages from the class will likely have similar problems. From Wikipedia:Wiki Ed/Northeastern University/Advanced Writing in the Health Professions (Spring 2018), below are other page the students are working on. 108.16.196.194 (talk) 13:42, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

• Quantum Tunneling in DNA (in progress at User:G-tay617/sandbox) -- (note - was moved to mainspace; i moved it back to draft space: Draft:Quantum Tunneling in DNA Jytdog (talk) 17:57, 5 March 2018 (UTC))
• Sugar substitute (already mostly reverted by User:Zefr)
• Medication errors in the Emergency Department -- (note - condensed and then merged to Emergency department Jytdog (talk) 17:57, 5 March 2018 (UTC))
• Sleep Deprivation on college students (in progress at User:Koo.b/sandbox)
• Pain management in children - this student editor is doing a fine job on this article and I will oversee their effort. Barbara (WVS) ✐  ✉ 01:20, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
• Veterinary pharmacy
• Home automation for the elderly and disabled
• Access to medicines
• Community health
• Animal assisted therapy
• Blood-injection-injury type phobia
• Dr. Celine Gounder (in progress at User:Cb31337/sandbox)
• Tropical Medicine
• Antidepressant
• Intermittent fasting
• Physiological Effects of Marathon Running (in progress at User:Yacar.d/sandbox)
• Venom in medicine (in progress at User:Ryanpan007/sandbox)

We already have an article on Medical error, and now there's Medication errors in the Emergency Department. Should this be merged into medical error, or generalized into Medication errors? Natureium (talk) 17:53, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

would think the former is a better choice...IMO--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:03, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Medicine/Stats/Top medical editors

Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Stats/Top medical editors 2016 (all) has statistics for 2016, but there is nothing for 2017. Has this effort been abandoned? --Guy Macon (talk) 18:44, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

@Guy Macon: The user who ran the script to scrape the data is too busy to carry on doing the work. We can't get hold of the script, so I'm in the process of trying to re-write the whole thing from scratch. That will take some considerable time unless somebody comes up with a better idea. --RexxS (talk) 00:07, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

per[1] sent email to analytics-owner@lists.wikimedia.org(no response yet/not sure it'll work)--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:12, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

@User:Guy Macon I would love this data. I have sent off dozens of emails trying to get this done aswell. Simple very hard to find someone. User:Ladsgroup and User:West.andrew.g ran the numbers in the past but as mentioned are busy with other things. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 13:44, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

at least we tried(and RexxS is trying)--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:03, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Hmm. Sorry about my late response - I've been super busy lately. It's unfortunate that we don't have the old scripts for this to modify and use for 2017. I would've taken this on if we had those. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 00:26, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Help with Tuberculous lymphadenitis

Tubercular adinitis with sinus

Hi, I was looking something up for work and ended up on the Tuberculous lymphadenitis page. A recent edit has done something to the diagnosis section but I have no idea which version I should revert to. Any help is greatly appreciated Red Fiona (talk) 19:27, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. A couple of edits ago, the ==Diagnosis== section was completely empty. I reverted to the penultimate version, which had the most favorable ratio of content to obvious typos. OTOH, the page is entirely unsourced and most sections are nearly empty or missing entirely, so anyone who is interested should grab the nearest textbook and replace it all. It should be easy to turn that into a decent article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:25, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

added ref to diagnosis section/ cleaned up EL--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 11:42, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

• more help/edits needed at Tuberculous lymphadenitis, thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:03, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Hiding spam links with "good references"

Seeing this more an more such as:

• here
• here

Good ref does not support the content in question. Other is simple spam. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:28, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

will be more attentive to this type of spam--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:48, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Probably an SEO tactic, we discussed something very similar to this a while ago. They seem to have moved from replacing good but dead sources with spam; to now adding good but irrelevant sources alongside spam. Maybe this is something Beetstra would be interested in. Carl Fredrik ^talk 17:11, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

This post seems to have been pretty popular: https://www.matthewwoodward.co.uk/tutorials/easy-wikipedia-link-building/

... may have found the blog that suggested this first:

• https://exposureninja.com/blog/build-backlinks-wikipedia/

86.31.184.35 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) should be banned

Carl Fredrik ^talk 17:29, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

If no recent edits why ban the IP? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:01, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

It's a clear of paid editing, where several IPs associated to the firm that have edited. The blog strongly suggest that there are a number of accounts under that IP that actively edit. Block the IP would get rid of the accounts as well. It's a good first step before we start with a sockpuppet-investigation, but of course only doing that is rather pointless. Carl Fredrik ^talk 20:08, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Good point User:CFCF. How long does "Prevent logged-in users from editing from this IP address" last? Is it indefinite? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:07, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Doc James — It should be indefinite. Carl Fredrik ^talk 12:06, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

This is a quite normal technique - finding {{citation needed}} tags, and replace them with some document on the server which you want to spam. Specifically, find articles in your attention area - say a medical technique - find those with a missing citations, and then just spam your site there. To the untrained eye the references look to-the-point and appropriate, and there is a significant chance that your spam stays. Often it involves blogs or small (very localized) companies. See WP:REFSPAM.

In case of doubt, post the spammed links to WT:WPSPAM - if only to create a record, all others can quite directly go for blacklisting on WT:SBL. As it often includes SEOs (which tend to use multiple IPs/accounts) and persistent editors, all other methods of mitigation do not really help, the links are generally not suitable anywhere (except for primary data on own articles, if notability is reasonable - which can easily be handled by whitelisting). Please don't waste your time keeping reverting or removing this stuff (if possible, look for cross-wiki problems and go to the meta blacklist, but COIBot will take care of showing that).

Regarding the blog, I will blacklist material that is offered for paid spamming, even if it wasn't spammed yet if it is along material that was spammed. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 07:49, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, Carl Fredrik ^talk 12:06, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Various firearm articles added to this project

I'm looking for comments on the recent addition of Firearm, Handgun , Gun violence, and Gun violence in the United States to this project. Respective discussions at Talk:Firearm#Contested project, Talk:Handgun#Contested projects, Talk:Gun violence#Contested project and Talk:Gun violence in the United States#Contested projects. Meters (talk) 22:59, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

I don't see how any of these are relevant to the medicine project. Plenty of pages have short sections on public health, etc, that aren't a part of this effort. SEMMENDINGER (talk) 00:11, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

I've commented at Talk:Gun violence in the United States #Contested projects and I suggest that we keep comments to a single talk page to avoid fragmentation of the debate. --RexxS (talk) 02:03, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Links added to other three pages. I should have done that to start... Meters (talk) 02:39, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

See WP:PROJSCOPE. An article is in scope if the participants want to support it (even if you think they shouldn't) and it's out of scope if they don't (even if you think they should).

My guess is that the folks here are going to be interested in Gun violence and Gun violence in the United States, but less interested in Handgun, and much less interested in Firearms. Does anybody have a different POV?

Also, in the future, please don't remove WikiProject tags just because someone outside of a group has complained about them. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:36, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

The tags were not added by anyone in the project. You restored them so they are your tags now, including the ones for Wikiproject Law, which you are not a member of. Meters (talk) 06:00, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

I notice that Gun violence in the United States is missing some medicine-specific information, such as Florida banning physicians from even gently inquiring about whether families were leaving loaded guns within reach of kids (there was an exception for suicidal kids). (The law was finally overturned last year as an unconstitutional infringement on physician's free speech rights.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:14, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

None of those are relevant to WP:MED. People need to stop trying to make political statements through categorization. Natureium (talk) 14:06, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Agree that well these articles may deal with medical issues they are not central enough to medicine that they should be included within this project. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:37, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

One way to simplify this problem is to be as clear as possible in the project scope statement. Articles that are easy to identify as out of scope can be detagged without discussion. · · · Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 15:57, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Firearm and Handgun should definitely not be. I am more sympathetic to Gun violence which has a significant public health perspective.

I tried to think of some parallel examples, so I looked at asbestos (analogous to firearm) and health impact of asbestos (kind of analogous to gun violence), expecting the former not to be in WikiProject Medicine, but the latter to be. I was surprised that they both are. Road traffic safety is also in WikiProject Medicine. Domestic violence is too. Those examples would support including gun violence. Bondegezou (talk) 16:24, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes gun violence would be okay / on the edge. Not handgun though. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:33, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

I think the closest gun violence and domestic violence could be to medicine is public health, which is a distinct discipline. Natureium (talk) 18:01, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

I find that I agree with Bondegezou. Natureium, those subjects might be dominated by another discipline in the real world, but it's not a distinct group of editors on this wiki. WikiProject "Medicine" doesn't restrict itself to a narrow definition of medicine (or a consistent one: we reject all articles about hospitals, which are clearly part of the structure of conventional medicine, but we accept articles about nursing, chiropractic, and altmed, all of which are also distinct disciplines). Also, this "categorization" isn't visible in the article, so if it's meant to be a "political statement", then it's a very ineffective one. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:35, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

There is no WikiProject Public Health: public health topics come under WikiProject Medicine. Bondegezou (talk) 23:05, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

• Kill it. Kill it with fire. I am getting tired of this "everything that involves injuries is automatically a public health issue" delusion. What next? List of countries by traffic-related death rate? Sailing ship accidents? Jellyfish stings in Australia? Injuries in netball? Motorcycle racing? Running of the Bulls? Accidents and incidents involving the V-22 Osprey? I agree with Doc James when he says that while these articles may (arguably) involve medical issues they are not central enough to medicine that they should be included within this project. We have plenty on our plate without adding marginally-related articles to WikiProject Medicine. --Guy Macon (talk) 23:59, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Note that 29 minutes after pasting this (duplicate) message here, Guy posted on the article talk page that he agreed that Gun violence should be tagged for this project.[2] I think that nearly everyone is reaching the same conclusion: yes to the "cause of death" articles and no to the "objects" articles. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:24, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
    • Note the reason I gave; because that page actually discusses something related to medicine. I strongly oppose adding either "cause of death" or "objects" articles. I support only adding articles that actually discuss something related to medicine. --Guy Macon (talk) 10:46, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Then we have agreement? No to firearm and handgun; yes to gun violence and therefore presumably yes to Gun violence in the United States. Bondegezou (talk) 10:58, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

PS: I note that injuries in netball is in WikiProject Medicine... Bondegezou (talk) 11:00, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

I think that's the plan, Bondegezou.

Guy, I think we usually tag things that should have substantial content related to medicine, broadly defined, even if that content hasn't been added yet. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:21, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Doing that is just opening up the door to drive-by-tagging abuse. If you think that an article needs content that is related related to medicine but are unwilling or unable to add it yourself, make your case on the WikiProject Medicine page and see if anyone is interested, only adding the tag when there is actual medical content on the page. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:04, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

1. I wrote most of WP:MED?, and I've done more work in that area than anyone else in the entire history of the project. I have tagged, assessed, and removed tags from ten thousand articles over the years. If any editor has a reasonably well-informed idea of what this group does and doesn't want to include, it's me. And I'm telling you that this group wants to watch articles that should have medical content even if they're currently incomplete, e.g., articles about medical device manufacturers that tout the companies but don't have any "real" medical content in it yet.
2. This system might theoretically "open up the door" to problems, but in practice, we've had remarkably few problems with it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:31, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

• injuries in netball is a thinly veiled advertisement for PhysioWorks. Am cleaning it up. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:59, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Okay no secondary sources on pubmed. Have condenses and merged into the netball article. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:39, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Resolvins

• Resolvin (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

I've tried to remove the primary clinical studies (and been reverted) - but more generally the entire article is heavily based based on primary sources. There appears to be a dearth of secondary literature discussing resolvins in a therapeutic context, but there is some discussing it pharmacologically e.g. PMID 29352860. Could use eyes. Alexbrn (talk) 17:03, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Have left some feedback for the user in question. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:31, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

What template is that you used? Alexbrn (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

{{Reliable sources please}} but I think handwritten messages are better for this job since they don't look thoughtless (the editor was welcomed to Wikipedia years ago). Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:40, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

• god that is unreadable. somebody has mistaken WP for a journal or something. Jytdog (talk) 19:47, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
  • When I notice content like that I think it could be a copyvio. QuackGuru (talk) 21:23, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Well, the editor who largely wrote it, Joflaher is active and appears to be creating quite a lot of article content which is similar in nature. Alexbrn (talk) 21:31, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
    • Well some of their contributions are a little overly complicated, a good faith editor. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:07, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
      • Yes, good faith I'm sure but the writing is way too technical. Alexbrn (talk) 16:55, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

My editing on Resolvin viewed it as a biochemistry article in WikiProject Chemicals category rather than a medical or clinical article. Many articles on other bioactive fatty acid metabolites (e.g. see LTB4) are classified as such and focus on the biochemistry, biology, and preclinical aspects of the metabolites. While the Resolvin article is actually classified in the WikiProject Molecular and Cell Biology category, it always focused on Resolvin biochemistry, biology, and pre-clinical studies that allow that Resolvins may someday become relevant to Medicine. Are you judging Resolvin from a overly medical viewpoint? Should the Resolvin article be re-categorized as WikiProject Chemicals? And, is there anything editorially that I can do to maintain Resolvin's biochemical, biological, and preclinical emphases? As always, I follow your judgements. joflaher talk

Is Draft:King-Devick technologies, inc. (King-Devick Test) a proper overview, or a POV advert? (cognitive/concussion test)

I volunteer in Articles for Creation and ran across this draft: Draft:King-Devick technologies, inc. (King-Devick Test)

It is extremely, very comprehensive, down to paragraph after paragraph citing the details of specific studies with positive conclusions for the Test. It's setting my POV radar off that there doesn't appear to be any criticism or controversy mentioned at all despite the extreme length and level of detail.

Could someone more savvy let AFC know if this is a really legit new article, or if this is a self-serving POV advert? Please feel free to just post your thoughts directly at the top of the page itself so other AFC reviewers can see it, or discuss here and ping me, as you like.

Pinging @Conniezimmer: so submitter can be aware of the discussion. MatthewVanitas (talk) 05:46, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Note in May 2017 King–Devick Test was CSDed for G11:

18:50, 6 May 2017 Athaenara (talk

— contribs) deleted page King–Devick Test (G11: Unambiguous advertising or promotion: created by User talk:SRDF127, User talk:Jordan123190, User talk:Conniezimmer)

MatthewVanitas (talk) 05:48, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this here. I left a note at the draft page. Jytdog (talk) 16:23, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Yup paid editors producing promotional content :-( Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:45, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Core Entrustable Professional Activities (EPAs) for entering residency

I've been reading about Competency-based Medical Education (CBME) and EPAs for something I'm writing. Y'all in medicine are doing groundbreaking work with regard to developing best practices for health profession education. At any rate, I wrote a list of the 13 Core Entrustable Professional Activities (EPAs) for Entering Residency for an eventual section or article on EPAs, although it's not something I can work on very much presently. The draft article is on a subpage in my user space: User:Markworthen/Core Entrustable Professional Activities list. Feel free to edit my draft article there (in my user space) or copy what you want for a new article or section.   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) 06:27, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

thank you for posting--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 10:01, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

My final batch of medicine-related links to DAB pages

These are the only medicine-related articles I know of which still have {{dn}} tags. As usual - search for "disam", and if you fix one, mark it here as {{done}}.

• Nucleoside-diphosphate kinase Done
• Hemidesmosome Done
• Prevertebral fascia Done
• Pleiotropy (drugs) Done
• Aminophenazone Done
• Drug reaction with eosinophilia and systemic symptoms Done
• List of diseases (H) Done
• Ubiquitin C Done
• Methylmalonyl-CoA mutase deficiency Done
• Severe cutaneous adverse reactions  Done
• Shirley Ratcliffe  Done (target page was a set index)
• Transurethral resection of the prostate syndrome Done

There may be a new article or two with a bad link which no-one has spotted yet. But, if you experts can solve those problems, WP:WikiProject Medicine might become one of those "clean as a whistle" WikiProjects. Thanks in advance. Narky Blert (talk) 23:35, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, Treetear for getting two of them done so quickly. I've done two more.

It looks like that leaves us just 8 more (out of all of our 41,263 articles!) to fix up. Who else can help today? WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:03, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Done. The last one (TURP syndrome) was a bit crude, because it had linked to hyperglycinemia but that term is used for inborn errors (ketotic and non-ketotic forms). A better solution would be a section of glycine or even a page on iatrogenic glycine toxicity, which is really what's going on with TURP syndrome secondary to glycine irrigation. — soupvector (talk) 05:19, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

And that, ladies and gentlemen, may be that. So long as readers get pointed to the right places, job done. Narky Blert (talk) 06:25, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

FYI created article + changes to template/main MS article

Just an FYI, that I created an article on RIS, and made subsequent changes to the template. I am not feeling bold enough to add RIS in Multiple Sclerosis but welcome those with more medical knowledge to do so. Happy for any suggestions or changes/comments etc. Thank you.Calaka (talk) 00:55, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

That looks like a great little beginning, Calaka. (I made the refs look a little fancier just now.)

If you (or we) could make it about four times as long in the next few days, then you could send it to WP:DYK and get it on the Main Page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:55, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

That sounds like a great idea WhatamIdoing. I have access to the literature thanks to my university access. Any topics/headings you can suggest to add to the page?Calaka (talk) 03:00, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Findings can be a tough case for article structure. In this case, maybe you would find some of these be appropriate:

• Follow up (Explicitly specifying "nothing", if nothing is normally done, could actually be informative to readers)
• Prognosis (e.g., likelihood of developing MS symptoms)
• Epidemiology (e.g., gender predilection, typical age, prevalence if known?)
• Research directions (Is anyone trying to figure this out?)

I'd add that if there's something that the reviews/textbooks/good sources talk about a lot, then this probably belongs in the article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:10, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the pointers. I will do some research tonight and add them in to the article. Maybe you can have a look once I finish and tidy it up to Wiki standards? :) Calaka (talk) 04:33, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Hey @WhatamIdoing, I have tried expanding RIS and would love to see what you think. I am not a doctor (though I am studying MS) so apologies if I have mixed up the terminology in terms of prognosis, epidemiology etc. Also was wondering if there is an easier way to add the references from the link as I have found adding the names and details manually tedious. Getting an image on the article would be fantastic though I do not know of any sources where there are copyright free images of MRI scans showing RIS. Also happy for any other comments or suggestions you may have. Kind regards.Calaka (talk) 04:14, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

I'll take a look.

Refs are super easy since you're using the visual editor. Click the "Cite" button in the middle of the toolbar, paste in the URL from PubMed in the "automatic" tab, and let the citoid service figure it out for you. ;-) It won't do everything (it's hopeless with PDFs, in particular), but it's excellent with PubMed links and okay with most DOIs. Formatting all but one took me just 10 minutes. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:37, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

I did some copyediting. I think you've done really well with expanding this. You cited a few reviews and a few primary sources – which is probably fine for such a rare (and newly described) condition, since you're either using them as footnotes on historical claims, or you've appropriately labeled them as being from single studies. Someday, we'll hopefully be able to replace them all with reviews and textbooks, but this looks like the best available sources at this point. I think you (or someone who knows more about nerves than I do) need to look at Radiologically isolated syndrome#Diagnosis to re-write it in your own words. Copying whole lists can be a copyright violation, and of course nobody wants that. But overall, I think you should be proud of what you've already accomplished here. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:14, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words and the tip! It was right in front of me but I missed it. And yeah unfortunately I knew about needing to use secondary sources etc. but struggled to find much being said in reviews compared to the primary literature. Oh and yeah I tried to do my best to reword the list in my own words but perhaps it should be turned into a table like has been done for the McDonald_criteria#Diagnostic_Criteria, as it would be hard to change the wording so much that it is not a copyvio? Would you suggest I nominate the article to DYK? Calaka (talk) 06:20, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Hey WhatamIdoing, I decided to be bold and make the nomination. Let me know if its all good. Kind regards.Calaka (talk) 10:51, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Mindfulness meditation

Over the past several years the bonanza in research into mindfulness meditation has been mirrored to give us a large amount of content here:

• Mindfulness
• Mindfulness-based stress reduction
• Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy
• Acceptance and commitment therapy (article here mostly written by its inventor?!)
• Research on mindfulness
• Neural mechanisms of mindfulness meditation
• Brain activity and meditation

The content is popular: the main Mindfulness article currently averages over 2,300 hits/day. The content is also positive verging on brochure-esque and makes a number of therapeutic claims. In the main article Wikipedia states:

Clinical studies have documented both physical and mental health benefits of mindfulness in different patient categories as well as in healthy adults and children.^[3][24][25] Programs based on Kabat-Zinn's and similar models have been widely adopted in schools, prisons, hospitals, veterans' centers, and other environments, and mindfulness programs have been applied for additional outcomes such as for healthy aging, weight management, athletic performance, for children with special needs, and as an intervention during the perinatal period."

Buried in the "Scientific research" there is the caveat that "overall methological quality of meditation research is poor and thus yields unreliable results", but that doesn't stop the claims rolling on including that mindfulness meditiation leads to "a reduced risk of inflammation-related diseases and favourable changes in biomarkers". This last claim is sourced to a Frontiers journal and an alt-med journal. I'm seeing quite a lot of dodgy sourcing.

A recent Systematic review and meta-analysis (PMID 29455695) found "For all psychiatric disorders it has been tested, MBIs were judged to have weak or no empirical support. The conclusion of the study is that the evidence-base for MBIs for CMDs in the acute phase is weak." (quoting the abstract - I can't get the full text). In general I think we have a bit of a walled garden and NPOV problem here.

Thoughts? Alexbrn (talk) 07:42, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

My first thought is that the claim that mindfulness programs "have been widely adopted" and that "programs have been applied" is not a therapeutic claim at all. "We managed to get schools to buy this" or "We convinced some dieters to try this" is sales information, not biomedical information. WhatamIdoing (talk) 14:57, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

And that's why it belongs in a sales brochure, not an encyclopedia. --RexxS (talk) 17:33, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Actually with great respect to editors here and who I generally agree with, and I do agree in part with the comments, I'd add: There's no problem with charting the trajectory of mindfulness into the schools, and as well all the information on mindfulness does not fall under MEDRS, but what I object to, and maybe that is what others meant, is the way in which the content has been added. It becomes advertising because of the subtle and maybe not so subtle promotional quality of the writing which comes out context as well as undue weight. I've seen neutral content that when placed with other perfectly neutral content becomes either pejorative or promotional because of placement. If it were me I'd clean up the article by adjusting weight and context. Since I have edited other articles on meditation techniques the kind of extensive editing I'm talking about might be seen as non- neutral so I'll leave that to someone else. I realize I'm probably being somewhat obscure in my references; I want to remain somewhat removed from this article.(Littleolive oil (talk) 18:13, 19 March 2018 (UTC))

Excellent points all around. I’m old enough to have seen many “”breakthough!” psych treatments come and go. A few have done the hard work and over time generated empirical support, e.g., CBT; exposure therapies; SSRI/SNRI rx (although oversold to some extent); & modern ECT for severe depression. Perhaps mindfulness therapies will get there too, but not at present.   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) 23:41, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

I'd be happy with a re-write – I'm feeling grumpy, so I'd probably write that it "has been marketed to older people, dieters, athletes, teachers, and new mothers" rather than what's there at the moment – but I'd oppose anyone insisting upon "MEDRS sources" about marketing.

In the category of such sources, though, I remember reading that some sort of meditation/mindfulness kind of thing was done in prisons but found to be harmful (not just useless). So if I had an hour free, I'd probably look for contrarian sources. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:46, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

This article is specifically about mindfulness and Mindfulness meditation and whatever research has been done on this form of meditation so sources would have to be specific to mindfulness-to save you time. Sorry if I am stating the obvious. And to clarify, I am in no way saying mindfulness is not effective-I have no idea if it is or not- simply that the article must be crafted so that it does not appear to be promotional- not to be confused with positive-and that health related aspects of the article have MEDRS sources. In a quick look it looks as if mindfulness in prisons is useful but I didn't check the quality of the sources. Mindfulness mediation research may be pretty new so research may still be in infancy and all that means in terms of quality.(Littleolive oil (talk) 14:37, 20 March 2018 (UTC))

There is a meta-anlaysis on acceptance and commitment therapy (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25547522) that claims "Our findings indicate that ACT is more effective than treatment as usual or placebo and that ACT may be as effective in treating anxiety disorders, depression, addiction, and somatic health problems as established psychological interventions." At the moment there doesn't seem to be a widespread consensus on the efficacy of these more recent psychological treatments. Lucleon (talk) 11:21, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Postpartum immune function

Resolved

I added some questions to Talk:Postpartum physiological changes about a paragraph in that article that I found surprising. The passage seems to say that after birth, it is routine for the mother to get a blood test to assess whether she is immune to rubella and other diseases. I have never heard of this being done. Does the passage make sense to the other editors here? Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 16:39, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes. I've commented there. — soupvector (talk) 00:24, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 03:36, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Another link to a DAB page

I've found a stray, which as usual needs expert input to resolve. Japan Academy Prize (academics) links to DAB page Hyperglycinemia. Thanks in advance for any help, Narky Blert (talk) 21:43, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done — soupvector (talk) 00:14, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Chromium

Chromium passed GA on April 29, 2009. The lead used to say the element is an essential human micronutrient. I reworded this to past tense and added the citation from EFSA from September 18, 2014. Just adding a !vote that nutrition belongs in this WikiProject. I am only a student but Cr⁶⁺ is highly toxic. Can anyone here help me fix Mineral (nutrient)? -SusanLesch (talk) 18:58, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Just to make this more difficult, here are two sources from the U.S. who still think chromium is essential. US NAS (National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine) 2001 and US Office of Dietary Supplements March 2, 2018. The first from 2001 is our national reference. I expect but do not know that the second takes their cues from the first. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:55, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Moved my comments over to Talk:Chromium#Not_essential. — soupvector (talk) 01:56, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. It uncovered ESPEN, a MEDRS. I can post follow up to Talk:Mineral (nutrient). -SusanLesch (talk) 14:40, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

I commented there as well, but more eyes would be welcome. — soupvector (talk) 22:52, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

WHO Cancer update

The WHO cancer fact sheet from 2009 has been updated to its newest, 2018 version. This will impact many articles. Best Regards, Barbara ✐  ✉ 11:55, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

it notes several refs including World Cancer Report 2014--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:20, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

I have updated the "Cancer" article referencing. Axl ¤ [Talk] 13:53, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Sponsored supplement?

Sucrose: a disaccharide of glucose (left) and fructose (right), important molecules in the body.

The Sugar article currently contains the statement "From systematic reviews published in 2016, there is no evidence that sugar intake at normal levels increases the risk of cardiovascular diseases.". Both those refs are from a "supplement sponsored by Rippe Health". I'm not sure what that means. Is it a reliable medrs source, or a vanity publication?

Rippe Health is in turn sponsored by producers of sugary foods, among others, like the Corn Refiners Association (sic). The lead author of the second paper is James M. Rippe, the founder and director of Rippe Health. The other is written by John Sievenpiper [edit:name made into wikilink] and his postdoc. Dr. Sievenpiper has received media attention for the support he has received from the sugar industry.

There is a better source. A Cochrane review found insufficient evidence to make any recommendations about low-glycemic index diets for cardiovascular health, because all the evidence was poor-quality. But I'd like to know if the supplement should be used as a source at all, as it is also cited on sugar addiction (this paper). The entire Rippe supplement seems to be open access, which is nice, but I can't see a copyleft.

Finally, should I take Ozzie10aaaa's advice and request a GA reassessment for the whole article? I don't think I can bring, or keep, the medical section up to standard by my own efforts.

HLHJ (talk) 18:01, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

The Khan and Sievenpiper source has a very clear and broad COI, but that doesn't disqualify it immidately. The presence of other sources, and the fact that the systematic reviews and meta-analyses are not plagued with COI is a good reason to avoid it. It also doesn't really support the above statement, saying:

In fact, the harmful effect of SSBs is likely driven by a collinearity with an unhealthy lifestyle as SSB drinkers consume more calories, exercise less, smoke more and have a poor dietary pattern.

So I'm not going to say it has to be purged, but it should be given less weight, and maybe one could push the unhealthy lifestyle connection more, with the caveat that this is speculation.

The Rippe and Angeloupoulos source falls below this level of evidence, and is pretty much a narrative review of RCTs, which when we have meta-analysis and systematic reviews of the same topic — should not be included. It mentions systemic reviews in its summary, but the focus is squarely on RCTs. There is quite significant COI here as well, which further weighs it down. It also cites a systemtic review, focusing on a point that is omitted from the sentence above:

his caused these investigators to conclude “the most obvious mechanism by which increased sugars might promote weight gain is by increasing energy consumption to an extent that exceeds energy output and restores energy balance… we observed that isoenergetic replacement of dietary sugars with other macronutrients resulted in no change in weight. This finding strongly suggested that energy balance is a major determinant of the potential for dietary sugars to influence measures of body fatness… the data suggests that the change in body fatness that occurs from modifying intake of sugars results from in alteration in energy balance rather than physiologic or metabolic consequence of monosaccharides or disaccharides.”

So what I can infer here is that they both hypothesize that sugar consumption leads to weight gain, because(?) it causes increased caloric intake. This confounder is side-stepped by the authors focusing on the one systematic review on restricted diets, rather than the "ad libitum" or "at will" diets of the two available systematic reviews.

Point being, I Support removing that sentence, because it is not reasonably supported by the sources. They miss too many points, and the major findings are ignored. They could be used to support other statements in the Sugar-article, but I'm pretty sure there are better sources, with less COI-issues to be found. Carl Fredrik ^talk 19:25, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Also why was this removed in April/May of 2017:

Studies in animals have suggested that chronic consumption of refined sugars can contribute to metabolic and cardiovascular dysfunction. Some experts have suggested that refined fructose is more damaging than refined glucose in terms of cardiovascular risk. Cardiac performance has been shown to be impaired by switching from a carbohydrate diet including fiber to a high-carbohydrate diet.

Switching from saturated fatty acids to carbohydrates with high glycemic index values shows a statistically-significant increase in the risk of myocardial infarction. Other studies have shown that the risk of developing coronary heart disease is decreased by adopting a diet high in polyunsaturated fatty acids but low in sugar, whereas a low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet brings no reduction. This suggests that consuming a diet with a high glycemic load typical of the "junk food" diet is strongly associated with an increased risk of developing coronary heart disease.

The consumption of added sugars has been positively associated with multiple measures known to increase cardiovascular disease risk amongst adolescents as well as adults.

Studies are suggesting that the impact of refined carbohydrates or high glycemic load carbohydrates are more significant than the impact of saturated fatty acids on cardiovascular disease.

A high dietary intake of sugar (in this case, sucrose or disaccharide) can substantially increase the risk of heart and vascular diseases. According to a Swedish study of 4301 people undertaken by Lund University and Malmö University College, sugar was associated with higher levels of bad blood lipids, causing a high level of small and medium low-density lipoprotein (LDL) and reduced high-density lipoprotein (HDL). In contrast, the amount of fat eaten did not affect the level of blood fats. Incidentally quantities of alcohol and protein were linked to an increase in the good HDL blood fat.

References

Carl Fredrik ^talk 19:35, 21 March 2018 (UTC) [edited by HLHJ to put the entire quote in quote format]

Some of the section you quote was removed by Jytdog on grounds, mostly, that the sources were terrible or primary (details in his edit summaries). The section as edited by Jytdog still contained the bit about animal studies, but the section was entirely replaced by Zefr just after Jytdog cleaned up the section. Zefr's version is still current and cites only the Rippe Supplement refs I am worried about (I've told Zefr I was worried and would look into them).

Does anyone know what the European Journal of Nutrition (not to be confused with the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition, or other similarly-named journals) means when it describes a publication as being a sponsored supplement? HLHJ (talk) 22:44, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this. yes we should be careful with regard to James Rippe and his practice, Rippe Health. See this 2014 NYT piece and this WaPo piece from the same time. Jytdog (talk) 23:40, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

not good[3]--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 00:34, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the references, Jytdog. I've added them to my increasingly lengthy history of notgoodness at User:HLHJ/sandbox/Sugar industry funding and health information. HLHJ (talk) 00:49, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Is there any generally-recognized database of the conflicts of interests of journals? Not Beall's list of predatory publishers, but a list of journals' funding, grants, reprint orders, etc.? Whether they print paid supplements, and on what terms? Or even just more basic stuff? In this case, I can't find a way to be sure who had editorial control of a sponsored supplement.

More subtle versions of the shill publication Australasian Journal of Bone & Joint Medicine might declare their funding and cite one another like mad. Has anyone heard of other sponsored journal-like things, or how to spot them? HLHJ (talk) 02:58, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Paging User:DGG... WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:05, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Found it! Linked from the European Journal of Nutrition homepage (which I had looked for before, but absurdly, hadn't found). It turns out that the entire supplement was under the editorial control of James Rippe.

I am unconvinced that this form of publication funding serves the public good. Also, being the editor of a supplement containing a paper on which one is the lead author seems unusual.

I was curious to know who funded and edited the journal's other supplements; they publish a lot of them (23 of them, in fact, starting abruptly in 2002, after forty-odd years of the journal's existence). The resulting list was long, so I've posted it in my draftspace. In summary; I don't think I, personally, would cite anything from the European Journal of Nutrition. There are just too many conflicts of interest for my taste. I would heavily scrutinize any statement backed up by a paper they had published. They may well have published some respectable research; I didn't actually read the articles, although some of the stuff I skimmed I found worrying (the idea of supporting nutrition trends, for instance, and stuff that I would template as too advertising-like if I found it on Wikipedia).

Does anyone know anything about the history of this publication? It would be nice to be able to add something to the European Journal of Nutrition article. HLHJ (talk) 20:19, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Eur J Nutrition was by no means the only publisher to issue such sponsored supplements. A number of otherwise very high quality journals did, and they represent a disgraceful cheapening of the medical literature. I do not consider any such publication to be truly peer-reviewed--it has the same status as any other conference papers in a commercially sponsored conference. In many cases these supplements were included only in the issues sent to individual subscribers, not to libraries. Essentially, they were advertisements.

I am amazed and horrified to learn that they are still being published. I do not know how fair it is to stigmatize this particular journal. I know where to ask, and I shall inquire further.

What I am fairly sure about, is that ewe cannot use the material as a RS even in our usual meaning of RS, and certainly not a MEDRS. DGG ( talk ) 03:48, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, DGG. There are "European+Journal+of+Nutrition"+&title=Special:Search&fulltext=1 39 other articles that mention the European Journal of Nutrition, and from a quick scan, some of them are from other sponsored supplements whose conflicts of interest I listed. Some references, like the one in the Vitamin A or Lactulose articles, are obvious because part of the citation mentions that they are from a supplement; you can see it from the search page. I'll replace them with {{citation needed}} and a suitable edit comment, unless there's a better route. But the formatting of the supplements was not very consistent, so if we are going to keep the non-paid-supplement articles from the European Journal of Nutrition, I'll go through and check them individually.

Should non-paid-supplement articles from the European Journal of Nutrition count as WP:RS or WP:MEDRS?

HLHJ (talk) 20:35, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

I needd to revise my comment: On my talk page, you pointed out" this supplement article, cited in Venous stasis, from 2012. It includes a very precise breakdown of what the supplement sponsor is not allowed to do. HLHJ (talk) 20:28, 25 March 2018 (UTC) "

and indeed, this may be a different type than the earlier pseuo-peer-revieweed articles I remember. I will need to check further, but my feeling is that we should not necessarily ban all such references, but they do need a comment. DGG ( talk ) 22:56, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

General policy on paid supplements

So then I searched for "Suppl", the abbreviation used for supplements in some citations. 7,855 Wikipedia articles contain it. The first one, apart from redirects of abbreviations to articles on journals (e.g. "Atheroscler Suppl"->"Atherosclerosis (journal)"), was Prebiotic (nutrition). It cited a 2007 paper from a supplement called "Supplement: Effects of Probiotics and Prebiotics" in the The Journal of Nutrition, which is published by Oxford University Press. In only the PDF version of the article, there is a footnote:

Published as a supplement to The Journal of Nutrition. The articles included in this supplement are derived from presentations and discussions at the World Dairy Summit 2003 of the International Dairy Federation (IDF) in a joint IDF/FAO symposium entitled ‘‘Effects of Probiotics and Prebiotics on Health Maintenance—Critical Evaluation of the Evidence,’’ held in Bruges, Belgium. The articles in this publication were revised in April 2006 to include additional relevant and timely information, including citations to recent research on the topics discussed. The guest editors for the supplement publication are Michael de Vrese and J. Schrezenmeir.

Guest Editor disclosure: M. de Vrese and J. Schrezenmeir have no conflict of interest in terms of finances or current grants received from the IDF. J. Schrezenmeir is the IDF observer for Codex Alimentarius without financial interest. The editors have received grants or compensation for services, such as lectures, from the following companies that market pro- and prebiotics: Bauer, Danone, Danisco, Ch. Hansen, Merck, Mueller Milch, Morinaga, Nestec, Nutricia, Orafti, Valio, and Yakult.

The Internation Dairy Federation is an industry association. No full form of "FAO" is given; I don't know if they mean the Food and Agriculture Organization. I don't know who funded the supplement.

The Journal of Nutrition is in fact run by the American Society for Nutrition, whose Wikipedia article fails to mention their funding. Their website lists a some familiar large companies in the food industry, which list I have wikified at Talk:American Society for Nutrition#Funding. There is a general lack of Wikipedia content on the sponsorship of medical professional organizations.

This is one paper. I think I need some help. Should there be an edit filter that automatically warns any editor trying to add a supplement reference to check for supplement sponsorship? Or is this too broad? HLHJ (talk) 20:35, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

There should not be an edit filter (which are "expensive" in computer terms). There could, however, be a bot that leaves a friendly note on the article's talk page, so that any interested editor is aware of the question.

BTW, are you aware of the template {{Better source}}? It's very handy for situations in which, for whatever reason, you think that the current source should be replaced by something more solid. Tagging a ref for improvement is often more practical than blanking it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:22, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Lengthy treatment section

I can't help but feel that the treatment section of this article reads more like an advertisement for Anakinra. Could someone else take a look please. CV9933 (talk) 21:01, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

SPA?--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 21:18, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Typically we don't called editors with 3 edits SPAs. Their edits can still be problematic though. Carl Fredrik ^talk 22:27, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for addressing my concerns; the article looks in better shape now. CV9933 (talk) 09:38, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this. Have further worked over the Schnitzler syndrome page and the anakinra both of which were horrible. Our article on the drug was mostly copy/pasted from the label :( Jytdog (talk) 16:53, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

List of mystery diseases

List of mystery diseases – This article needs to be defined. The article says it is a list of "disease[s] for which the cause has not yet been identified". Is it a list of diseases that are a complete mystery, like "nodding disease" in the article, or should it include all diseases of undetermined cause, like chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, and even major depression? The article description makes me think it is the latter, but I don't know if there's any need for an article on that topic. Natureium (talk) 19:11, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Agree, and would add that using the term "disease" in the name of this particular article seems unfortunate. Many strive to use "syndrome" for unhealthy conditions that have unknown or multiple causes, and reserve "disease" for unhealthy conditions with a defined cause. While this distinction is very far from absolute, the term "disease" tilts toward "known cause". — soupvector (talk) 23:02, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

I think that's a conversation that will be most productively had on the article's talk page, i.e., where there will be a record for all future editors who are trying to figure that out. (Also, please document the result, whatever it is, in the article's lead, per standard WP:SALLEAD practice.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:08, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

The intersection of experimental, alternative, and cutting-edge cancer treatment

This news article:

Gellman, Lindsay (2018-03-22). "The Last Resort: Private clinics in Germany sell cancer patients hope — and mixed results — at exorbitant prices". Longreads. Retrieved 2018-03-24.

might be interesting to some editors here. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:12, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Interesting. Especially the last 5 paragraphs. Raymond3023 (talk) 04:51, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

See also here. I wonder whether this clinic is notable enough for an article. Alexbrn (talk) 06:38, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

[4]probably is notable--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 09:25, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

What may also be notable is the phenomenon of private (oncology) clinics doing this — because the Hallwang clinic is far from the only. It also reminds me of a case where a woman had travelled to Germany for SLE treatment for a full bone-marrow transplant, an experimental and highly dangerous procedure. Fortunately for her it went well, but the marketing and atmosphere is remarkably similar to that in the article. I don't know where we could place such an article, but I think focusing too much on the single actor is only marginally useful.

In fact we have no article on Financial toxicity, which has been lifted to the forefront the past few years as a major negative effect of cancer treatment (then often focusing on the US). The current redirect is to Cancer#Economic_effect and only reads:

In 2007, the overall costs of cancer in the US—including treatment and indirect mortality expenses (such as lost productivity in the workplace)—was estimated to be $226.8 billion. In 2009, 32% of Hispanics and 10% of children 17 years old or younger lacked health insurance; "uninsured patients and those from ethnic minorities are substantially more likely to be diagnosed with cancer at a later stage, when treatment can be more extensive and more costly."

References

There is a whole lot more we could write about here. RationalWiki has an article on the Hallwang Clinic https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hallwang_Clinic (which is CC-BY-SA, but does not adhere to our sourcing standards). Carl Fredrik ^talk 12:28, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

We have articles on the Oasis of Hope Hospital and (indirectly) the Burzynski clinic; it might be good to find a way to group all this stuff together rather than have one article per dodgy clinic - we could end up with quite a lot! Alexbrn (talk) 13:00, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

If for no other reason, writing ledes with "The xx clinic is a private oncology clinic alleged to engage in profiteering off terminal cancer patients, contributing greatly to financial toxicity of terminal cancer". That way we don't need to go into the details on each article, but can direct to a broader article. Carl Fredrik ^talk 13:20, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Alex: I would rather not see articles on individual clinics.

In addition to the financial problem, we should probably expand our content on the "problem" of hope.[5] WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:29, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Abortion

User trying to use a self published book by Ann Hibner Koblitz as a source. They also wrote the article about her and her publishing company Kovalevskaia Fund. Peoples thoughts? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:40, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

I think that the user probably saw Ann Hibner Koblitz and Kovalevskaia Fund to be red link and that's why they created their article. Looks like an enthusiast, but nothing really more than that. Raymond3023 (talk) 06:12, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

[6][7][8]agree w/ Doc James--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 09:22, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Chromosome number for Mouse genes are wrong

Hello,

I have noted that practically every gene I look up on Wikipedia shows a human and mouse gene in the panel on the right. The chromosome number given for the mouse ortholog position is always incorrect. Instead of the correct chromosome location, it always gives the human chromosome location in the place of the mouse chromosome location. I cannot figure out how to change this and is likely in error in the lookup code that populates that chromosome field for the mice.

For an example, look at this gene and view the summary data panel on the right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corticotropin-releasing_hormone_receptor_1

Eakhiro (talk) 06:54, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Seems like a problem with Module:Infobox gene but I don't know how to fix that. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:35, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Osmosis concerns

User talk:Jimbo Wales#Osmosis: Wikipedia medical articles hijacked by paid editors working for private foundation

I see that, for medical articles, Wikipedia is no longer primarily a collaboratively edited text & image encyclopaedia, but a platform for documentaries created by a private third party. Videos which Wikipedians have no ability to edit, nor our readers any ability to verify facts against sources. This is not Wikipedia. -- Colin°^Talk 11:06, 26 March 2018 (UTC)