Talk:George Floyd protests: Difference between revisions
m →Discussion: fix template |
→Requested move 25 August 2020: Oppose Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit |
||
Line 99: | Line 99: | ||
*'''Oppose George Floyd riots''' A large majority of the protests were peaceful although a significant minority were violent. We name articles using the terms that the preponderance of reliable sources use when discussing the topic. I also oppose the move to 2020 Black Lives Matter protests for the same reason. We go with the sources. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 05:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC) |
*'''Oppose George Floyd riots''' A large majority of the protests were peaceful although a significant minority were violent. We name articles using the terms that the preponderance of reliable sources use when discussing the topic. I also oppose the move to 2020 Black Lives Matter protests for the same reason. We go with the sources. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 05:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC) |
||
*'''Strong Oppose''' George Floyd protests are a part of the BLM movement, which has been taking place for a number of years now and is not something which first originated in 2020. The BLM movement in 2020 is also '''in no way synonymous''' with George Floyd protests as multiple other events of the movement have taken place and continue to do so in 2020. [[User:Shawnqual|<span style="color:#FF91AF">'''''•Shawnqual•''''' 📚</span>]] • [[User talk:Shawnqual|💭]] 07:13, 26 August 2020 (UTC) |
*'''Strong Oppose''' George Floyd protests are a part of the BLM movement, which has been taking place for a number of years now and is not something which first originated in 2020. The BLM movement in 2020 is also '''in no way synonymous''' with George Floyd protests as multiple other events of the movement have taken place and continue to do so in 2020. [[User:Shawnqual|<span style="color:#FF91AF">'''''•Shawnqual•''''' 📚</span>]] • [[User talk:Shawnqual|💭]] 07:13, 26 August 2020 (UTC) |
||
*'''Move to [[George Floyd riots]] or [[George Floyd unrest]]''' as it fits definition of riot as it was many destruction of businesses, lawlessness, and many more. I agree with {{u|180.245.102.250}} that per 1992 LA riots, this article title should be follow that, even it was a peaceful protests. I not agree to move to 2020 BLM protest because reason above. [[Special:Contributions/182.1.35.124|182.1.35.124]] ([[User talk:182.1.35.124|talk]]) 07:55, 26 August 2020 (UTC) |
|||
== Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2020 == |
== Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2020 == |
Revision as of 07:55, 26 August 2020
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the George Floyd protests article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4Auto-archiving period: 1.5 days ![]() |
![]() | The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
Frequently asked questions Q1: Does it have to say "white" police officer?
A1: Yes, because almost all reliable sources emphasize the significance of this fact. Q2: I read some information on the web that isn't in this article!
A2: When proposing anything to be added to the article you need to cite a reliable source; secondary sources are generally preferred over primary. Q3: This article is biased (for/against), or (whitewashes/blames), (Floyd/police)!
A3: See our neutral point of view policy. Complaints of bias must be accompanied by specific concerns or suggestions for change. Vague, general statements don't help. Q4: Why is this article calling it a murder instead of a death/killing?
A4: As a person was formally convicted for murder in a court of law, the article uses the term "murder", in line with the community guidance at WP:MURDERS. Q5: Wasn't Floyd killed near a store called Cub Foods, not Cup Foods?
A5: The store is Cup Foods, and is not affiliated with the Cub Foods store chain. Q6: Why does the article use such a graphic photo? Isn't it in poor taste?
A6: The lead image was determined by the community in a formal Request for Comment process. The RfC reached an "overwhelming consensus" that "...the image, despite it being traumatizing, should be kept per WP:NOTCENSORED, as it is an appropriate representation of the topic." Q7: Why was my request or comment removed?
A7: Because of the frequency of meritless and disruptive requests, any further requests to describe Floyd's murder using other terms (e.g. "death", "overdose") or to change the name of the article accordingly will be removed without consideration, unless the request complies with all relevant Wikipedia guidelines and essays, including WP:Requested moves, WP:Common name, WP:Article titles, WP:Naming conventions (violence and deaths), and WP:Reliable sources. Anyone removing such requests should include a link to this FAQ in their edit summary. Q8: Why do we not call the protests riots?
A8: Because most reliable sources call them protests, not riots. Q9: Did he not die of a drug overdose?
A9: No, whilst fentanyl was a contributory factor, his death certificate lists his cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression". |
![]() | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
![]() | This article is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
|
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article has been mentioned by a media organization:
|
![]() | A news item involving George Floyd protests was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 29 May 2020. | ![]() |
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the George Floyd protests article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4Auto-archiving period: 1.5 days ![]() |
Criteria to qualify as a "George Floyd protest"
I've been thinking about this issue for some time : how do we determine which protests constitute "George Floyd protests" ? I haven't seen this question discussed directly on this talk page, only discussions regarding whether the protests are over or not (they seem not to, regarding continuous protests in Portland for instance). The problem is that many police brutality/racism protests are mentioned in the media without direct reference to George Floyd and the wave of protests this summer in the US and other countries, and yet they are included here. For instance, on August 9 there was a police shooting in Chicago which sparked a riot in the city, and demonstrations regarding the event the following day. Do these events constitute George Floyd protests ? Floyd and the protests aren't mentioned or alluded to in the sources. Thus, we risk conducting WP:original research. Regarding this issue, I would think that the way to go is to include general police brutality/BLM protests, and protests in reaction to given police actions (mainly shootings of civilians such as the one in Chicago I just mentioned or the shooting of Rayshard Brooks in Atlanta are included on a case by case basis, with a careful reading of the sources. Fa suisse (talk) 06:01, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
- This is a difficult event to title as it is ongoing and everything is still up in the air, I agree. I don't believe these protests have been about George Floyd since around mid-June, since then the protests have been more broadly BLM/anti-law enforcement in general, along with various counter-protests and sometimes armed confrontations between opposing groups (over the removal of statues and monuments, for example). In some cities the protests never stopped (like in Portland), while other cities like Chicago, Richmond, Atlanta, Seattle, etc. have had frequent flare-ups of unrest and protests/rioting, none specifically George Floyd-related at all. The scope of this ongoing unrest is so all over the place that I believe the article should no longer be titled "George Floyd protests" but rather something like 2020 American protests/unrest/spring/etc. if people can eventually agree on something, as this is just absolutely all over the place. But I'm not currently challenging that since everything is still so up in the air right now, and will likely continue into at least November and probably explode again, regardless of who wins the election. But I'm on a tangent. Just my two cents. Temeku (talk) 09:28, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
- RS say it is.Slatersteven (talk) 09:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
I think it’s time to give this movement a new name. The media isn’t calling the protests of today “George Floyd protests”. They are usually referred to as police brutality protests or something like that. We will either need a second page for “2020 Police Brutality Protests and Unrest in the US” to accommodate more recent activity, or change the title of this page. Camdoodlebop (talk) 22:38, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Media coverage?
There doesn't seem to be a section discussing media coverage. Has it been fair or biased? This source claims it was, at least initially, biased: "Centering protest coverage around the impact on traffic, local businesses, and property is one way that the protest-as-nuisance framing manifests. And according to the study, that “annoyance” framing increased over time — newspapers were more likely to frame a protest as a nuisance in 2007 than in 1967. The study also found that protests over liberal causes were framed as nuisances more often than protests over conservative causes.... You also see this bias in headlines from The Washington Post’s “A night of fire and fury across America as protests intensify” to The New York Times’ “Appeals for calm as sprawling protests threaten to spiral out of control.” These headlines focus exclusively on the violence of the protests. They don’t tell us where the violence is coming from. So when Slate published a story with the headline “Police erupt in violence nationwide,” it was almost startling in its forthrightness. The story resonated, being shared widely on social media in and in private text groups, because it was the first national report that made plain what people were seeing in videos. “People kept sharing these videos that were coming up and it was unambiguous what was going on,” said Tom Scocca, Slate’s politics editor, who edited the story. “We weren’t looking at a stream of videos of violence erupting or clashes breaking out. We were looking at cops, attacking people.”" https://www.niemanlab.org/2020/06/its-time-to-change-the-way-the-media-reports-on-protests-here-are-some-ideas/ Here is another: "Top 16 Euphemisms US Headline Writers Used for Police Beating the Shit Out of People" https://fair.org/home/top-16-euphemisms-us-headline-writers-used-for-police-beating-the-shit-out-of-people/ Ghostofnemo (talk) 12:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- I would prefer better sources.Slatersteven (talk) 12:16, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- I think we can include both. The FAIR article, from Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting, "the national progressive media watchdog group, challenging corporate media bias, spin and misinformation", shouldn't however be front and center of a section on media bias, and should be added along analyses by "media watchdog groups" with different political perspectives. Fa suisse (talk) 08:48, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- A section discussing media coverage would be a worthwhile addition to the article. Fa suisse (talk) 08:41, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- It seems worth having a section for. Some possible sources: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] --Aquillion (talk) 20:16, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
References
- ^ "The Story Has Gotten Away from Us". Columbia Journalism Review. Retrieved 2020-08-25.
- ^ "Injustice, Virality, and Mourning in Minneapolis: How the press is covering the death of George Floyd". Columbia Journalism Review. Retrieved 2020-08-25.
- ^ Heaney, Michael T. "The George Floyd protests generated more media coverage than any protest in 50 years". Washington Post. Retrieved 2020-08-25.
- ^ Mitchell, Amy; Jurkowitz, Mark; Oliphant, J. Baxter; Shearer, Elisa (12 June 2020). "Majorities of Americans Say News Coverage of George Floyd Protests Has Been Good, Trump's Public Message Wrong". Retrieved 2020-08-25.
- ^ "The Media's Coverage Of The George Floyd Protests Against Police Brutality". www.wbur.org. Retrieved 2020-08-25.
- ^ Jackson, Sarah J. (3 June 2020). "The Headlines That Are Covering Up Police Violence". The Atlantic. Retrieved 2020-08-25.
- ^ "Study: Media Coverage Of George Floyd Protests Surpasses Any Other Protest In Last 50 Years". www.mediapost.com. Retrieved 2020-08-25.
- ^ "Did George Floyd Die Or Was He Murdered? One Of Many Ethics Questions NPR Must Answer". NPR.org. Retrieved 2020-08-25.
- ^ Jiménez-Martínez, César. Media, Protest and the Simplification of Violence – via PhilPapers.
- The only unbiased RS's provided only talk about substantial coverage and not necessarily improper coverage. We should be very careful with claiming RS are actually unreliable, and I don't see enough accepted RSs saying that directly. Anon0098 (talk) 21:33, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2020
![]() | This edit request to George Floyd riots has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
79.146.43.165 (talk) 17:13, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Not done Unclear what change is being asked for. FDW777 (talk) 17:16, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2020
![]() | This edit request to George Floyd Riots has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Title should be changed to George Floyd Riots 12.129.16.124 (talk) 19:44, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Not done See Wikipedia:Edit requests, they are not for controversial edits that don't have consensus. FDW777 (talk) 19:51, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Requested move 25 August 2020
![]() | It has been proposed in this section that George Floyd protests be renamed and moved to 2020 Black Lives Matter protests. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}} . Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. |
George Floyd protests → 2020 Black Lives Matter protests – I suggest we change the name of this article to 2020 Black Lives Matter protests. Due to the unfortunate shooting of Jacob Blake and subsequent Kenosha riots, I believe that the title of this article should be changed to a more general title in order to include it, e.g. "2020 Black Lives Matter protests". Jacob Blake has become yet another figurehead of the fight against police brutality in the United States, and the title "George Floyd protests" doesn't do sufficient justice at including the nationwide movement that is now popping up against systemic racism, and the general aim of these protests as a whole. What was previously the George Floyd protests now far exceeds the scope of George Floyd's death. HandIsNotNookls (talk) 20:42, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose RS continuously link protests to Floyd. I haven't seen any significant amount call these "2020 Black Lives Matter Protests" in any capacity Anon0098 (talk) 21:28, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Not all events in the death of George Floyd are even "Black Lives Matter" protests. That being said, it does seem like some content in the George Floyd protests article and other George Floyd protests in [NAME OF PLACE] articles have some content that is of a slighter broader context. Those articles just need better editing and refinement, not a full on rebrand.VikingB (talk) 21:34, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose The protests are about the death of George Floyd. While Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, and other's deaths have played a role in the protests, they were ultimately started by (and continue to mainly be fueled by) Floyd's death. The current name is best. I-82-I | TALK 03:32, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose and move to George Floyd riots the article is more about a destruction of public property and vandalism by protesters, so the correct name of the title is George Floyd riots per 1992 Los Angeles riots, which also named as it thought is was some peaceful protest. Also, this article is about the death of George Floyd, not other Black Americans which have separated articles. 180.245.102.250 (talk) 04:59, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose George Floyd riots A large majority of the protests were peaceful although a significant minority were violent. We name articles using the terms that the preponderance of reliable sources use when discussing the topic. I also oppose the move to 2020 Black Lives Matter protests for the same reason. We go with the sources. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose George Floyd protests are a part of the BLM movement, which has been taking place for a number of years now and is not something which first originated in 2020. The BLM movement in 2020 is also in no way synonymous with George Floyd protests as multiple other events of the movement have taken place and continue to do so in 2020. •Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 07:13, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- Move to George Floyd riots or George Floyd unrest as it fits definition of riot as it was many destruction of businesses, lawlessness, and many more. I agree with 180.245.102.250 that per 1992 LA riots, this article title should be follow that, even it was a peaceful protests. I not agree to move to 2020 BLM protest because reason above. 182.1.35.124 (talk) 07:55, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2020
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change the word Protest to Riots. With 30 people killed and over 500 million in property damage it is not a protest and fits the definition of the word "Riot"- a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd. VapeNShred (talk) 23:05, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{edit semi-protected}}
template. EvergreenFir (talk) 23:24, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2020
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change George Floyd protests to George Floyd riots TonySm8 (talk) 00:15, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Not done: Page move requests should be made at Wikipedia:Requested moves. JTP (talk • contribs) 04:58, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
RfC
Consensus does change, but edit requests over and over and over by people making their first edits are unlikely to be taking policy into consideration or be thoughtful. I'd like to discuss whether it's okay to answer and close such edit requests so they don't turn into long rediscussions that end up the same way. (FWIW, I'd be open to some regular reopening of questions that we all agree could have a change in consensus. But 'allege' passing of counterfeit bills is never going to change. And we don't need to rediscuss killing of vs. death of or riot vs. protest every six days.) —valereee (talk) 00:38, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Propose: Anything that's been discussed in the past month, with no clear change to current consensus, can be politely responded to, directed at the most recent discussion, and closed.
Support
Oppose
- Oppose We would have to remove considerable if not all material if the scope of the article was narrowed to rioting. TFD (talk) 04:03, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Discussion
I'm confused by the comment @The Four Deuces:. This isn't a proposal to narrow the scope of the article, but to stop the constant edit requests of "please change the title to George Floyd riots". FDW777 (talk) 07:11, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
@Valereee: I would prefer a six-month+ moratorium on move requests that I've seen on other articles, once the current move request has finished. I think the current proposal is a bit too weak. FDW777 (talk) 07:15, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- Wikipedia controversial topics
- C-Class Black Lives Matter articles
- Top-importance Black Lives Matter articles
- C-Class African diaspora articles
- Low-importance African diaspora articles
- WikiProject African diaspora articles
- C-Class Arizona articles
- Low-importance Arizona articles
- WikiProject Arizona articles
- C-Class California articles
- Mid-importance California articles
- C-Class Los Angeles articles
- Mid-importance Los Angeles articles
- Los Angeles area task force articles
- WikiProject California articles
- C-Class COVID-19 articles
- Mid-importance COVID-19 articles
- WikiProject COVID-19 articles
- C-Class Crime-related articles
- Mid-importance Crime-related articles
- WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography articles
- C-Class Death articles
- Mid-importance Death articles
- C-Class Disaster management articles
- High-importance Disaster management articles
- C-Class Discrimination articles
- Low-importance Discrimination articles
- WikiProject Discrimination articles
- C-Class Firefighting articles
- Low-importance Firefighting articles
- WikiProject Firefighting articles
- C-Class Georgia (U.S. state) articles
- Mid-importance Georgia (U.S. state) articles
- C-Class Atlanta articles
- High-importance Atlanta articles
- Atlanta task force articles
- WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) articles
- C-Class Human rights articles
- Low-importance Human rights articles
- WikiProject Human rights articles
- C-Class International relations articles
- Unknown-importance International relations articles
- WikiProject International relations articles
- C-Class Law enforcement articles
- High-importance Law enforcement articles
- WikiProject Law Enforcement articles
- C-Class Minnesota articles
- High-importance Minnesota articles
- C-Class New York (state) articles
- Mid-importance New York (state) articles
- C-Class politics articles
- Low-importance politics articles
- C-Class American politics articles
- Mid-importance American politics articles
- American politics task force articles
- WikiProject Politics articles
- C-Class United States articles
- High-importance United States articles
- C-Class United States articles of High-importance
- C-Class United States History articles
- Unknown-importance United States History articles
- WikiProject United States History articles
- WikiProject United States articles
- Wikipedia articles that use American English
- Wikipedia pages referenced by the press
- Wikipedia In the news articles
- Requested moves