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This article has been tagged with a recommendation that it be considerably reduced. I think this can be done fairly easily by moving most of the content from Section 6 onwards into sub-articles or significantly reducing it.
However, the remaining content is still too wordy and the Lede remains too long, which means people won't read it. I can put a draft up but it needs to only include what is essential, not what would be nice. Robinvp11 (talk) 17:54, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No need to shorten this major event in the history of many countries. Readers can easily find the section that interests them. If they want the whole story they can read it in parts. Rjensen (talk) 03:37, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Professor Jensen. The article well summarizes events and topics that are subjects of entire books much less an overview. There may be a little repetition and some editing may be possible but none of the covered topics and events should be entirely omitted. I think that readers of an article on a topic this detailed are probably not turning to the article for an incomplete version of some of the summaries of some of the key events and topics. Donner60 (talk) 04:30, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think this misses the point. The article is hard to navigate, so it needs restructuring, and the whole point of an online encyclopedia is to break up a large topic into manageable bits. Otherwise, people don't read it.
Reducing content is not the same per se as leaving stuff out. But (for example) Wikipedia has an entire article on Romanian participation in WWI; so why do we need four paragraphs on what is a minor theatre for most readers? Robinvp11 (talk) 17:27, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with your second paragraph. I was trying to express that I agree with Professor Jensen's main point about comprehensiveness, but I do not disagree with some editing and reduction of content as long as anything of significance is mentioned and links to articles devoted to the subject in more depth are provided. Looking back, the mention of omitting "nice to have" content might have been taken as a suggestion for wholesale pruning that would result in omission of significant events and content. This article may be the only look at an overview of World War I for many readers, or their introduction to a large and interesting subject. That introduction could spark their further interest if it has enough information. As I suggested, I think many readers who turn to an article like this one are looking for a little more than an outline of a few major events. Romanian participation appears to be one of the good candidates for reduction of content on the subject in this article, as you suggest. Adept editing can keep much of the content in fewer words, unlike this note. Donner60 (talk) 08:31, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I just looked at your interesting user page. This seems pertinent here: "I didn't have time to write you a short letter, so I wrote you a long one instead. Blaise Pascale (or Oscar Wilde, depending)." I've probably written a few things along these lines and I am reasonably sure I have quoted this a few times, or came up with it independently. Happy editing. Donner60 (talk) 08:39, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Intro
Another point, I was reading the introduction and saw this:
"Attempts to bypass the stalemate caused fighting to expand into the Middle East, the Alps, the Balkans and overseas colonies, bringing Bulgaria, Romania, Greece and others into the war."
This sentence is factually wrong in numerous ways and really needs taking out. Firestar47 (talk) 22:30, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The sentence is wrong because it is misleading -- the war spread in part because the Allies kept encouraging more neutral states to join the war effort, offering them territory in return. Italy joined to gain S. Tyrol, Trieste and Dalmatia; Romania joined to gain Transylvania, etc. Japan was offered various German island colonies. The "stalemate" in the Western front did not cause this to occur. The Allies caused it to occur -- again expanding the war. In fact, the entire war was unnecessarily expanded. A brief Austria-Hungary v. Serbia conflict over terrorism was expanded to a continental contest between France/Russia/Serbia and their territorial desires (i.e. regain Alsace-Lorraine, undo the restraints on the Black Sea from the Crimean War, take the straits from the Ottomans during their imminent collapse -- as shown by their huge territorial losses in 1911, 1912, 1913) and AH and Germany. And then again, that continental war was expanded into a global conflict when Britain entered. And that global conflict expanded again as the Allies encouraged Italy, Greece, Japan, Romania, the USA, etc. to join. The Central Powers added Bulgaria and Ottoman Turkey -- which did allow for expansion of the Allied war effort to the Middle East. Chesspride216.144.161.51 (talk) 18:59, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I will look at the sentence and see if it can be made clearer. I would point out "stalemate" refers to both the Eastern and Western Fronts, while Bulgaria, Greece etc were brought into the war specifically to open up new fronts due to that lack of progress. The entries of Japan, Italy and the Ottoman Empire are covered in an earlier paragraph.
Most of the subsequent argument is extremely contentious and seems to ignore the extensive literature on the causes of the war. Robinvp11 (talk) 20:24, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
One problem basically is it puts the cart before the horse, the fighting expanded geographically as new states joined not vice versa. Also the war didn't expand to the balkans it started there. Firestar47 (talk) 12:42, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ok how about the following "over time new states such as Italy, Turkey, Japan, Bulgaria and Romania, entered the war and the fighting expanded to Africa, the Middle East, East and Southeast Asia, the Alps and other parts of the balkans". Firestar47 (talk) 10:42, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
At the moment the article lists two start dates; 28 June 1914, when Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated, and 28 July 1914, when Austria declared war on Serbia. Either of these may be appropriate, but the most appropriate will be the one most commonly cited by historians; have we determined this previously? BilledMammal (talk) 09:40, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Black Tom Explosion is not mentioned as a reason why the US joined WWI. Despite it being a major event. I think it should at least be mentioned. 69.204.59.102 (talk) 19:55, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
While the incident may have been a major event in July 1916, I don't think you can argue it was a significant contribution to the US entering the war. Robinvp11 (talk) 17:43, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
first gas use
there is minor thing where it says that germans where the first to use gas but acourding to the kumc the french where the first to use gas? Kaydenbalch (talk) 17:59, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The claim is for the use of tear gas see Patton, James. "Gas in The Great War". Medicine in the First World War. KU Medical Center. Retrieved 21 April 2023. Several chemicals were weaponized in WWI and France actually was the first to use gas - they deployed tear gas in August 1914DuncanHill (talk) 15:33, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As stated on our main article Tear gas: "None of the belligerents believed that the use of irritant gases violated the Hague Convention of 1899 which prohibited the use of 'poison or poisoned weapons' in warfare. Use of chemical weapons escalated during the war to lethal gases, after 1914 (during which only tear gas was used). ... Use of tear gas in warfare, as with all other chemical weapons, was prohibited by the Geneva Protocol of 1925: it prohibited the use of 'asphyxiating gas, or any other kind of gas, liquids, substances or similar materials', a treaty that most states have signed." Germany is still generally considered to have been the first to breach the then-binding international law by using lethal gases, starting with chlorine and eventually escalating to the use of mustard gas.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 03:02, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I can see how people can get confused. The French and Russian forces both trialed irritant gases, but these didn't have a big impact and thus these efforts were largely forgotten about. German troops were the first to deploy chlorine, a lethal gas. The German chemical industry was world-leading and Germany was a major chlorine producer at the war's beginning; Fritz Haber, chemist who is one of the most important people of the 20th century, threw himself into the German war effort and was a principal figure in German military use of gas. Maybe the article should note this in some way to help dispel reader confusion? Maybe a footnote would work here? 47.155.41.201 (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I added a portal to World War I at the bottom of this page, and I received a warning message. Although I'm auto-confirmed, I wanted to let you know so you can check it out and see if it's appropriate. Lord Milner (talk) 07:30, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Where the lead sentence reads "often abbreviated as WWI", it should say "often abbreviated as WW1 or WWI". "WW1" is the more common version in my personal experience, and I find a higher Google hit count for it; in any case it's certainly common enough to mention here. --142.112.220.184 (talk) 01:29, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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11:39, 19 May 2023 (UTC)