Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games
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Heads up: Gamer Network acquired by IGN
IGN Entertainment has acquired Gamer Network from Reed Pop, and while no site yet has been labeled for discontinuation, there are layoffs happening across Gamer Network sites due to redundancies, like Brandon Sinclair at Games Industry.biz
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ign-buys-gamer-network-sites-layoffs-in-progress/1100-6523610/?ftag=CAD-01-10abi2f — Masem (t) 17:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- One of these days, every single source from some point in the future and onward will be all IGN. Panini! • 🥪 18:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Better IGN than Valnet, I guess... Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 18:56, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Ugh. I sometimes wonder what Wikipedia would even look like in that hypothetical future. What will people do? Will we devolve into writing articles like "You won't believe what Link wears on his feet! (Brown shoes found in a treasure chest!)"? Sergecross73 msg me 19:08, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- I just think we won't write as much, frankly, if all we get outside of major press for games is a bunch of content churnalism. I don't think we'll just decide to loosen reliable source standards because the good sources are disappearing. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 19:33, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- I was mostly kidding, though I do sometimes fear that, some day, if all that's left is churnalism junk, us experienced regulars are eventually going to be swarmed and overwhelmed by newbies who use the junk because there's simply nothing else. Sergecross73 msg me 20:32, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Magazines came and went in the 90s too. Laid off journalists will start their own publications. I'm not worried about coverage. czar 18:53, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- I was mostly kidding, though I do sometimes fear that, some day, if all that's left is churnalism junk, us experienced regulars are eventually going to be swarmed and overwhelmed by newbies who use the junk because there's simply nothing else. Sergecross73 msg me 20:32, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- I think in that case we just have to hope more Aftermaths spring up. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 19:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Aftermath was marked as inconclusive, at the reliable source discussion board. This seems like a mistake. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:14, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed. Axem Titanium (talk) 23:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- I believe that was mostly due to the age of the publication, its had several more months now to assess. Masem (t) 00:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed. Axem Titanium (talk) 23:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Aftermath was marked as inconclusive, at the reliable source discussion board. This seems like a mistake. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:14, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- I just think we won't write as much, frankly, if all we get outside of major press for games is a bunch of content churnalism. I don't think we'll just decide to loosen reliable source standards because the good sources are disappearing. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 19:33, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Ugh. I sometimes wonder what Wikipedia would even look like in that hypothetical future. What will people do? Will we devolve into writing articles like "You won't believe what Link wears on his feet! (Brown shoes found in a treasure chest!)"? Sergecross73 msg me 19:08, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Better IGN than Valnet, I guess... Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 18:56, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Combined with instant layoffs, of course. https://twitter.com/ethangach/status/1792945062151594281 IceWelder [✉] 19:28, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how to feel about this whole thing. On one hand, IGN is still a decent source and I doubt much will change on the content side for at least a few years. On the other hand, they've closed other good sites before and if IGN's quality decreased even more, this would be bringing down some of our other best sources with them. At least right now we still have sites owned by Future and Vox, even if the latter have their own problems. λ NegativeMP1 20:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I like IGN quite a bit, especially because their coverage, like GameSpot, goes back a lot farther than a lot of other websites. And I don't think they're the type to go and turn good websites into churnalism/AI/Walkthrough type junk either. I just hate that it leads to layoffs, could lead to website shutting down, and that, if IGN/GamerNetwork ever falls, the number of websites lost is going to be brutal. Sergecross73 msg me 20:43, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how to feel about this whole thing. On one hand, IGN is still a decent source and I doubt much will change on the content side for at least a few years. On the other hand, they've closed other good sites before and if IGN's quality decreased even more, this would be bringing down some of our other best sources with them. At least right now we still have sites owned by Future and Vox, even if the latter have their own problems. λ NegativeMP1 20:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- This is disappointing. Focusing on what it means for Wikipedia, I'll repeat a refrain that I keep bringing up at the reliable source discussion page.
- Even our best sources are mixing in more churnalism / game guide / meme content. We have to confront the idea that even our best sources are somewhat situational. That means we should offer more guidance on how to use different kinds of coverage. (For example, we should always summarize game reviews, carefully use game lists, and rarely use game guides.) Shooterwalker (talk) 15:54, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- The only advice i can give anybody here regarding online sources is: If you see something that is part of an article you're interested in working on it, better archive that website or take a screencap of it. You never known what might happen in the future. Do i even have to bring up 1UP.com as an example of a website bought by IGN that was later closed down and the surviving links don't even work properly? Roberth Martinez (talk) 16:46, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- the WMF engine has a built in mechanism that I believe autoarchives any reference added to an article. — Masem (t) 00:08, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- About time MKsLifeInANutshell (talk) 14:15, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- ? Sergecross73 msg me 15:49, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- Nah i just meant its about time Ziff Davis bought Gamer Network too MK at your service. 18:21, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- ? Sergecross73 msg me 15:49, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
New Articles (May 20 to May 26)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 15:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Articles deleted/removed: International Hobo, Nate Timely, Yasuke Matsuda, Yuto Kamishiro, Revenge of the Killer Robots from Hell
- Drafts deleted/removed: Draft:Tadashi Yamashita, Draft:List of Netflix games, Draft:Lucky Pikinini, Draft:Sandbagging (Mario Kart), Draft:Walaber, Draft:EarlyGame, Draft:Gleggmire, Draft:Kareem Mahfouz, Draft:IRL streaming, Draft:Live Bullet-screen Interactive Game, Draft:Novaquark, Draft:Fortnite Fever, Draft:History of the Wii U, Draft:Mikomi Hokina, Draft:Tinysoft, Draft:Necrophoresis (Video Game), Draft:Ronan Sweeney (Fortnite Player), Draft:The Final Earth 2
- Articles redirected: Puyo Puyo Fever 2, Vette (Star Wars), Transformers Decepticons, Transformers Revenge of the Fallen: Decepticons, Kula Diamond, Bethesda Game Studios Austin, Dancing Stage Max, Mahjong video game, Gielinor, Atlus USA, DeHackEd, DreamWorks Madagascar 3: The Video Game
- Articles moved to draft space: The Legend of Zelda (film)
- Categories deleted/removed: Fixed shooter stubs, Rail shooter stubs, Run and gun game stubs, Amstrad video games, BlankMediaGames games, Soda Den games, NBA 2K players, Video gaming in Cameroon, Video gaming in Ghana
- New categories: MediaKite games — Waxworker, Musical video game culture — QuantumFoam66, Video game music festivals — St. Jimmy Jammy (newly tagged - originally created 5 months ago), Amuze games — Waxworker, Digital Praise games — Waxworker, Game culture — QuantumFoam66, Games Distillery games — Waxworker, Ghostfire Games games — Waxworker, Habbo — Aidennn (newly tagged - originally created 11 years ago), Horror video games by decade — AHI-3000 (newly tagged - originally created 1 month ago), Kerberos Productions games — Waxworker, Média-Participations franchises — Ariel el pleb (newly tagged - originally created 5 years ago), Redtribe games — Waxworker, Starwave games — Waxworker, Zyrinx games — Waxworker, Digital deck-building card games — QuantumFoam66, FASA Studio games — Mika1h, Massively multiplayer online role-playing game terminology — QuantumFoam66, Skyworks Interactive games — Waxworker, Sonic the Hedgehog (film series) — BestDaysofMusic (newly tagged - originally created 24 days ago), Works based on Pac-Man — (Oinkers42), Adventure strategy games — Bedivere.cs (newly tagged - originally created 1 month ago), Deck-building card games — Mindmatrix (newly tagged - originally created 8 years ago), Metaplace — Dark Mage (newly tagged - originally created 16 years ago), Transmedia storytelling — Fixuture (newly tagged - originally created 8 years ago), Video gaming in Bangladesh — Akib.H (newly tagged - originally created 10 years ago), Video gaming in Cameroon — BrownHairedGirl (newly tagged - originally created 5 years ago), Video gaming in Ghana — BrownHairedGirl (newly tagged - originally created 7 years ago), Video gaming in Indonesia — Le Deluge (newly tagged - originally created 6 years ago), Virtual avatars — Mathiastck (newly tagged - originally created 16 years ago)
- New templates: {{Street Fighter II}} — Kung Fu Man, {{AtariAge software}} — Matthias M., {{AtariLegend game}} — Matthias M., {{Atarimania}} — Matthias M., {{Coinop game}} — LilMinmax (newly tagged - originally created 10 years ago), {{Gb64 game}} — Matthias M., {{IFDB}} — Rqndom (newly tagged - originally created 3 years ago), {{IGDB person}} — Zyxw (newly tagged - originally created 2 years ago), {{Itch.io}} — OmegaFallon (newly tagged - originally created 1 year ago), {{Lemon Amiga game}} — Matthias M., {{MobyGames developer}} — Alphonze (newly tagged - originally created 18 years ago), {{PCGamingWiki}} — MJL (newly tagged - originally created 2 years ago), {{Elden Ring}} — Kung Fu Man
May 20
— CosimoQuiche (was previously a redirect)
— Rtkat3 (newly tagged – originally created 14 years ago)
— Ersene
May 21
— RebelYasha (previously a draft)
— RickyCourtney (previously a draft – moved out 18 days ago)
— OldGamer
— BoogerD (newly tagged – originally created 5 years ago)
— 20SS00 (newly tagged – originally created 4 years ago)
— Violetriga (newly tagged – originally created 18 years ago)
May 22
May 23
— Jeees777 (was previously a redirect)
— MKsLifeInANutshell (newly tagged – originally created 22 days ago)
May 24
— Cukie Gherkin (previously a userpage: undrafted by original creator)
— CaptainAngus
May 25
— NatwonTSG2 (was previously a redirect)
— Cat's Tuxedo (previously a userpage: undrafted by original creator)
— Http iosue (previously a draft – moved out 18 days ago: accepted AfC submission)
May 26
- None
- {{PCGamingWiki}} seems strange to have, no? It reminded me of the AfD on the GameFAQs template. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 16:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- But at the same time we still have {{MobyGames}} & co. IceWelder [✉] 22:24, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- The WP:WHATABOUTX (or even "WP:ALLORNOTHING") about MobyGames also came up in that discussion. Does linking to a page on PCGamingWiki mean the reader gets a greater understanding of the subject? Their wiki onBioShock Infinite for instance is great if you want to skip the introduction video, add a Turkish fan translation or disable lens flare effects, but how does that help the general reader? soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 08:45, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- But at the same time we still have {{MobyGames}} & co. IceWelder [✉] 22:24, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
Notability of indie video games that didn't get much secondary coverage?
I would like to contribute by making pages for a few independent role-playing games that didn't get a whole lot of coverage: Potato Flowers in Full Bloom, Helen's Mysterious Castle, and Crystal Project. I'm new to making new Wikipedia pages, and because these games did not get much coverage in the press, I'm concerned they may not meet the notability guidelines, even though I (subjectively) see them as representing interesting ideas in game design.
Does anybody have advice for me? I've created an initial draft for Potato Flowers in Full Bloom, if that helps to get the conversation started. Jhilgard (talk) 17:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Ultimately, if something doesn't meet notability guidelines, then it can't have an article. It is a hard line, unfortunately. That said, you may be able to find enough about these games- it really just takes a few articles that are specifically about the game to meet the guidelines, assuming that they're broad enough that you can actually write about the subject. A good tool is the WPVG custom google search, though it doesn't catch everything. I see that for Potato Flowers there's a paywalled RPS review and a PocketTactics review (not the best site, but we're getting somewhere), and NintendoLife has a short preview. That's pretty on the edge there in terms of content, even once added to what you already have, but if you dig through google you may be able to find enough. You can see what sites have been determined to be reliable or unreliable at Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources. Helen's Mysterious Castle and Crystal Project, unfortunately, seem to have gotten even less attention. --PresN 18:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- I have learnt it from when I tried to make Draft:Sun Haven. I never knew such a popular farm sim game (which has 14,000 steam reviews) has little coverage in reliable sources. In fact, I could only really find one reliable source at PCGames N and that is only a short four paragraph early access review. I thought I could use sources not located at VG/S (If i am reading this correcly, sources outside VG/S are presumed to be unreliable). A similar situation with Draft:Gorilla Tag's 18,000 reviews. I have since gone ahead and took a pause from Sun Haven and creating new articles until had the opportunity to create/ Coffee Talk Episode 2 exactly one year after release, and even made it on its way to WP:DYK. I am no longer considering editing Sun Haven until the major 1.4 update is out or its on the switch for this reason. So I would not even start making your draft until you could locate at least three reliable sources.
- Also, you should link to your draft at Draft:Potato Flowers in Full Bloom JuniperChill (talk) 19:19, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
"sources outside VG/S are presumed to be unreliable"
- not quite; the sources listed at VG/S are just those that have had discussions about them. If a source isn't listed, it could still be reliable, but you'd have to justify it yourself if questioned. If it's a videogame-focused source, it probably isn't reliable if its not listed there, but that's because most reliable sources get brought up there sooner or later so that we have a written record to point to later to in later discussions/nominations. --PresN 19:56, 30 May 2024 (UTC)- Yes, this is correct. Also, as WP:VG/S mentions, it mostly just documents video game-centric websites. There's tons of general interest publications - for example - the Washington Post - that would be considered usable even though its not listed. The list would be massive (and be redundant to WP:RSP if we included every reliable source.) Sergecross73 msg me 20:04, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Ah ok then. I was mostly correct. But I actually found just one proper review from TheGamer "News posts and original content after August 2020 are considered generally reliable." which means its safe but would still fail my criteria for notability as it needs three. There is currently a discussion on whether GameLuster is reliable on VG/s. JuniperChill (talk) 20:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, this is correct. Also, as WP:VG/S mentions, it mostly just documents video game-centric websites. There's tons of general interest publications - for example - the Washington Post - that would be considered usable even though its not listed. The list would be massive (and be redundant to WP:RSP if we included every reliable source.) Sergecross73 msg me 20:04, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I know some editors, myself included, have a running list of article ideas (and sources for writing them) kept in their WP:SANDBOX, and when they think they have enough coverage to meet the WP:GNG and avoid any WP:MERGEREASONs, they try to write up a WP:DRAFT and see if they have enough to warrant publishing an article. You can run drafts through WP:AFC for review, or share them hear and editors specifically into video games can give their thoughts.
- My two cents: while the GNG only requires 2 third party reliable sources to cover a subject, usually WP:THREE or more present a stronger argument. I'd also recommend familiarizing yourself with WP:VG/S, as we've already gathered a rather huge selection of sources that are generally seen as usable or not-usable. Sergecross73 msg me 18:30, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Generally speaking the policy is that Wikipedia is not an advertising tool, even if you are a fan who wants to advertise the game because you think it deserves to be bigger. The game must already be "big", rather than counting on Wikipedia to popularize it. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- That's understandable, and I think that gets at the core of what I'm working through, here. I wonder if there might be more coverage in the Japanese web, but I don't read Japanese. Thanks. Jhilgard (talk) 19:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Remember that notability is a rebuttable presumption. You may be able to pull out three sources to illustrate notability for a standalone but if that leads to a short stubby article that has no possible expansion possibilities (a game developed 5+ years ago without further coverage outside a short window) it will probably be sent to deletion. On the other hand, 3 sources for a game released last month should be fine for some time. Masem (t) 16:38, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Generally speaking the policy is that Wikipedia is not an advertising tool, even if you are a fan who wants to advertise the game because you think it deserves to be bigger. The game must already be "big", rather than counting on Wikipedia to popularize it. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- I do feel your pain Jhilgard, there's a lot of cool successful indie games out there that receive little/no reliable source coverage. Unfortunately if the coverage doesn't, exist there's not a whole lot we can do here on Wikipedia. For Crystal Project specifically (I'm a fan of that game myself) I researched it previously and concluded there wasn't enough coverage for an article. CurlyWi (talk) 20:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for sharing your experience, CurlyWi. It's an interesting tension between "notable" in the Wikipedia sense and "notable" in the game design sense. I suppose we've each got a head start if ever there are enough secondary sources regarding these games. Jhilgard (talk) 22:06, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Pretty shocked Crystal Project isn't notable, honestly. It feels like exactly the type of game that's gotten just enough traction for an article here even if it's still somewhat on the less known side, if only for comparisons to other games. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 05:49, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- It's difficult to establish notability for games that are only released on a single platform. Once it's ported, it usually picks up a Switch review from Nintendo Life, a PlayStation review from Push Square, and a Windows review from PC Gamer or Rock Paper Shotgun (or maybe even both). One "cheat" is to check for reviews on IGN affiliates. IGN France, IGN Italy, and IGN Greece post reviews for European indie games a lot more often than the main English-language site. Eurogamer has affiliates in other languages, too, but it's harder to search them. Don't forget to check French, German, Italian, and Polish sources, especially if the game was developed in Europe. It helps if you know a few reliable sources to check other than the obvious ones, like PC Games and Jeuxvideo. For example, you might check Heise.de for a German game. Finally, you can check unreliable sources, such as TV Tropes or MobyGames, for information that may help you refine your searches. For example, people on the IMDb or whatever may keep mentioning a gameplay element that they really liked. If you include that gameplay element in your web searches, it may help refine your searches and make it easier to spot reviews that also mention it. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:12, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- This may explain why Sun Haven is not on Metacrtic yet. It is currently only on Windows platform. However, they (Pixel Sprout Studios - the developer and publisher) are on its way to release this onto the switch alongside the large update. I think I finally get one of the reasons why Sun Haven cannot make its way onto Wikipedia yet which (like I said earlier) I do not plan to create it until it makes it onto the Switch or the new update. JuniperChill (talk) 09:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- I don't have much constructive advice to add, but I want to encourage you to cover some of these indie games. The project definitely needs it. And Metacritic can be a good place to look for games that might hit this threshold. It's something special when a small game can earn coverage in reliable sources. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:30, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
New Articles (May 27 to June 2)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 22:47, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Articles deleted/removed: Word Up (video game), Lite-C, MIDItarHero, Domain-specific entertainment language
- Drafts deleted/removed: Draft:Carmen King, Draft:Cornucopia (video game), Draft:Love Birds (Video Game), Draft:Zula Global, Draft:List of video games featuring Wolverine, Draft:The Outer Worlds 2
- Articles redirected: Pit (Kid Icarus), Vicious Engine, Bethesda Game Studios Dallas, Jack Marston (Red Dead), Pac-Man (single), List of Atari, Inc. games (1993–present)
- Categories deleted/removed: Interactive movie video games by series, The Legend of Zelda (TV series), Characters designed by Toby Fox, ZeniMax Media stubs, Video games with AI-versus-AI modes
- Templates deleted/removed: {{New Blood Interactive}}
- New categories: Impact of events on the video game industry — XTheBedrockX (newly tagged - originally created 5 months ago), Microsoft Entertainment Pack — Universal Cereal Bus (newly tagged - originally created 15 years ago), Music video games by series — QuantumFoam66, Video games about the Battle of Stalingrad — Mika1h, Western (genre) games — Kanghuitari (newly tagged - originally created 5 years ago), Fallout (American TV series) — Gonnym (newly tagged - originally created 1 month ago), Innerloop Studios games — Waxworker, Valorant players — Pbrks (newly tagged - originally created 10 months ago), Japanese video game artists — Mika1h, Indie game characters — QuantumFoam66, Video game slang — QuantumFoam66, Video gamers — QuantumFoam66, Video games based on The New Batman Adventures — Gonnym (newly tagged - originally created 3 years ago), Video games set in the Italian Renaissance — Cat's Tuxedo (newly tagged - originally created 5 months ago), Virtual economies — Cydebot (newly tagged - originally created 10 years ago), Virtual economy — Marcocapelle (newly tagged - originally created 6 years ago), Choro Q video games — Mika1h, Darkstalkers character redirects to lists — Kung Fu Man
- New templates: {{Tactical-fps-videogame-stub}} — Jlwoodwa (newly tagged - originally created 6 months ago), {{Tactical-tps-videogame-stub}} — Jlwoodwa (newly tagged - originally created 6 months ago), {{Japan-videogame-stub}} — WikiMacaroons (newly tagged - originally created 4 years ago), {{2020 Call of Duty League standings}} — Pbrks (newly tagged - originally created 4 years ago), {{2021 Call of Duty League standings}} — MatthewHagueLang (newly tagged - originally created 3 years ago), {{2022 Call of Duty League standings}} — MatthewHagueLang (newly tagged - originally created 2 years ago), {{2023 Call of Duty League standings}} — MatthewHagueLang (newly tagged - originally created 1 year ago), {{2024 Call of Duty League standings}} — MatthewHagueLang (newly tagged - originally created 9 months ago), {{Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games Esports}} — Sports2021 (newly tagged - originally created 2 years ago), {{Downlodable content}} — Tantamounts (newly tagged - originally created 5 years ago), {{Esports match}} — Pbrks (newly tagged - originally created 5 years ago), {{Esports national team roster footer}} — Pbrks (newly tagged - originally created 2 years ago), {{Esports roster multi}} — Pbrks (newly tagged - originally created 1 year ago), {{Overwatch collapsible box/map}} — McVahl (newly tagged - originally created 3 years ago), {{Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Mid Season Cup result}} — EdhyRa, {{Sensible Software}} — Mika1h
May 27
May 28
— IntMaMis
— FlyingKangeroo (was previously a redirect)
— Mika1h
May 29
— Pek
— Nall
— 147.64.137.111 (newly tagged – originally created 20 years ago)
— RetroGamer81 (newly tagged – originally created 2 months ago)
— MNJ555
May 30
— SoggiestSoup
— Codyave
— Ideafabrik
— Akino005 (newly tagged – originally created 14 years ago)
May 31
— Kung Fu Man (was previously a redirect)
— Venuesmathis (previously a draft: accepted AfC submission)
— Ryan York
June 1
— OceanHok
— Emiya Mulzomdao
— SpaceGeek756
— BOZ
— OceanHok
— Mika1h
June 2
— Cukie Gherkin (was previously a redirect)
— IntMaMis
— SlySabre (previously a draft: accepted AfC submission)
— Cukie Gherkin (was previously a redirect)
- Gosu caught my attention from its 20 year tagging gap (the biggest I've seen), but it seems to be a pretty lackluster article on both information and sourcing. I haven't researched it because its late here, but pointing it out just in case. Panini! • 🥪 01:42, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Can I get a temperature check on some categories created by a new user? Specifically Category:Indie game characters and Category:Video gamers but I could use a 2nd opinion on many of the others too. Axem Titanium (talk) 06:43, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- "Video gamers" seems like it could stay, but I have marked it for speedy renaming. It should also probably only contain a more narrow set of categories such as esports players and Let's Players. Being a Youtuber about games does not imply you play games.
- Not sure "indie game character" is defining, though, as being in an indie game has nothing to do with how a character is portrayed. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:00, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'd say indie game characters could probably stay for the same reason we have stuff like Category:Microsoft characters. Categorizing characters by developer is common practice, so making one for indie devs makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:13, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- "Indie" isn't a specific developer though. It could be argued that the company the character is from IS defining because it determines who is allowed to use them. "Indie" is too vague to be defining, just like "AAA game characters" would also be too vague. In other words a Category:Video game characters by creator that is purely a container category might work, if there are enough categories to merit it.
- Furthermore, should it not be Category:Microsoft Gaming characters? Microsoft refers to the entire company. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think it even makes sense to group characters by the developer. Grouping characters by game and or series, obviously yes. Masem (t) 15:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- I don’t know if it makes sense for Microsoft, but I definitely think some developers — like Nintendo — have interconnected and, for lack of a better word, iconic, casts of characters that make the common developer a defining categorization. DecafPotato (talk) 21:25, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- They should be in a category for characters of a franchise (or just the franchise/series itself), which should then have a category of "Developer franchises" or whatever. -- ferret (talk) 21:26, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- I don’t know if it makes sense for Microsoft, but I definitely think some developers — like Nintendo — have interconnected and, for lack of a better word, iconic, casts of characters that make the common developer a defining categorization. DecafPotato (talk) 21:25, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think it even makes sense to group characters by the developer. Grouping characters by game and or series, obviously yes. Masem (t) 15:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'd say indie game characters could probably stay for the same reason we have stuff like Category:Microsoft characters. Categorizing characters by developer is common practice, so making one for indie devs makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:13, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Need Opinions for a clear consensus. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 04:35, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
Reminder: avoid creating articles on newly announced games simply based on announcement
with Not-E3 starting today with the Summer Game Fest kickoff, a reminder that just because a game is announced doesn't mean we should be rushing to create an article on it. Unless you can include a fair amount of aspects like development from reliable sources, it is better to create redirects from these games to series pages, an existing game that it is tied to, or to individual studios if a new IP. — Masem (t) 12:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed. Sergecross73 msg me 13:11, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, if you can only write one paragraph on a new game that gets announced, wait. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:11, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Case in point... soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'd actually tend to disagree with creating the article right away, since it's going to happen regardless in the future, but I'm instead against making them for a different reason: none of us regulars make these articles, so it's usually someone new and inexperienced who just wants to hit the "first" button. Because of this these articles are of such horrible quality and formatting, and the ratio of mistakes to actual info is so bad that's it's better to just blow it up and try again later. Panini! • 🥪 23:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Case in point... soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
New Articles (June 3 to June 9)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 16:07, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- Articles deleted/removed: Creative Vault Studios, BIbarel, Croalurk, Magnufo, Starlbird, Starlhawk, Laniatus
- Drafts deleted/removed: Draft:List of video games with bots, Draft:Chun Wah Kong, Draft:Lore Game, Draft:Ludo: Animal Heroes, Draft:Palia (Video Game), Draft:Ramón Castro Marín, Draft:Roguelite, Draft:LEGO Ninjago: Tournament, Draft:Tram Simulator: Urban Transit, Draft:Super Mario RPG (2023), Draft:Flock (Upcoming video game), Draft:Freelancer 2120: The Asaka Contract, Draft:Frog Paradise, Draft:Last KM, Draft:Bidoof, Draft:List of Minecraft mobs
- Articles redirected: Wii Menu, VACnet, Big the Cat, Rewired (demoparty)
- Categories deleted/removed: Azure Striker Gunvolt series, Game design, 2002 abandonware games for Windows, 2004 abandonware games for Windows, 2014 abandonware games for Windows, Japanese-language-only video games, Ludomusicology, Game culture
- Templates deleted/removed: {{Video game abbreviation}}, {{Xbox.com}}, {{Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Mid Season Cup result}}
- New categories: EightyEight Games games — Waxworker, Watch Dogs — (Oinkers42), English people in the video game industry — Smasongarrison, Games based on Starship Troopers — BOZ (newly tagged - originally created 1 year ago), Gloom engine games — Comrade Graham, Sid Meier games — Mike Selinker (newly tagged - originally created 15 years ago), Video games designed by Nifflas — Zxcvbnm, Lightning Fish games — MKsLifeInANutshell (newly tagged - originally created 2 months ago), Video game labor relations — XTheBedrockX, Video games about school shootings — Renamed user ZL56zq6jivhZZk (newly tagged - originally created 7 months ago), Amusement arcades — SilkTork (newly tagged - originally created 12 years ago), Character songs — Kanghuitari (newly tagged - originally created 8 years ago), Esports teams based in Saudi Arabia — Soulbust, Team Falcons players — Soulbust, Video gaming stubs — QuantumFoam66, Arabic-language-only video games — QuantumFoam66, Czech-language-only video games — QuantumFoam66, Germany-exclusive video games — QuantumFoam66, Microsoft antagonists — Cwf97 (newly tagged - originally created 5 years ago), Microsoft characters — Cwf97 (newly tagged - originally created 5 years ago), Microsoft protagonists — Cwf97 (newly tagged - originally created 5 years ago), Poland-exclusive video games — QuantumFoam66, Portuguese-language-only video games — QuantumFoam66, Region-exclusive video game hardware — QuantumFoam66, Russia-exclusive video games — QuantumFoam66, Spanish-language-only video games — QuantumFoam66, Wikipedia categories named after video games — QuantumFoam66, Alpha Unit games — Waxworker, Anshar Publishing games — Waxworker, Evil Empire (company) games — Waxworker, Indie.io games — Pcj, Surefire Games games — Waxworker, Vertigo Games games — Waxworker
June 3
— DCFan101 (newly tagged – originally created 15 years ago)
June 4
— 223.178.84.100 (was previously a redirect)
— 47.153.138.166 (previously a draft: accepted AfC submission)
— A412 (previously a userpage: undrafted by original creator)
June 5
— Agos226 (previously a draft: accepted AfC submission)
— Kiwiz1338
— Acquamarina
— PantheonRadiance
— Soulbust (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
June 6
— PrimalMustelid (was previously a redirect)
— Pokelego999 (was previously a redirect)
— Gidev (newly tagged – originally created 6 years ago)
— Zxcvbnm (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
— Ethanflics123
— Ben King (newly tagged – originally created 18 years ago)
— LittleT889
— Pokelego999 (previously a userpage: undrafted by original creator)
— Bensin (newly tagged – originally created 6 months ago)
June 7
— Chezza123 (previously a draft: accepted AfC submission)
— Axem Titanium (was previously a redirect)
— Jp3z (newly tagged – originally created 18 years ago)
— Mirandasolley (newly tagged – originally created 11 years ago)
— BOZ
— FOARP (newly tagged – originally created 4 months ago)
— Zxcvbnm (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
— Baratiiman (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
June 8
June 9
— Boneless Pizza! (was previously a redirect)
— Kung Fu Man (was previously a redirect)
— TheBritinator (was previously a redirect)
— OceanHok
— Cyberlink420 (was previously a redirect – un-redirected 2 months ago)
— NootyNooter
Was not expecting to see a game called The Wizard Sniffer on the list. (or ever) QuicoleJR (talk) 16:33, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- And maybe you (we) shouldn't have either? I've never heard of it before, but the sourcing in the article doesn't make a very strong case for notability at least... Sergecross73 msg me 18:03, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- I think something similar to what Draft:Lore Game probably was could actually be a good idea. All those indie horror games have those deeper storylines and ARGs that have recently become merchandise and marketing traps, and because of it the concept may have received some significant coverage. Panini! • 🥪 23:04, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Until it could be expanded significantly, I would add a subgenre section on "Liminal spaces" to Horror game using this as a source https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/backrooms-liminal-spaces-and-the-subliminal-menace-of-loneliness-in-indie-horror-games and identifying games like the Backrooms and Exit 8 as leading examples of these. Masem (t) 23:10, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- I think something similar to what Draft:Lore Game probably was could actually be a good idea. All those indie horror games have those deeper storylines and ARGs that have recently become merchandise and marketing traps, and because of it the concept may have received some significant coverage. Panini! • 🥪 23:04, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Removal of shipping content on Marianne von Edmund
There is a topic on Marianne von Edmund regarding removal of shipping content, The discussion become slightly heated and I am moving the discussion to the project's page so that more opinion will be placed and the hopefully the dispute will be resolved. Warm Regards, Miminity (talk) (contribs) 05:33, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- From my view just popping into this, the canonicity of something shouldn't be a deciding factor in removing information. As long as it's backed up by reliable sources it should be fine to include. Harryhenry1 (talk) 05:39, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- It seems to be back by a reliable source. It should be okay to include. Not everything needs to be considered "canon" in order to be included. (Oinkers42) (talk) 14:43, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
Need opinions for a clear consensus. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 06:09, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
Demos
I guess this is as good a time to bring it up as any. Sometimes I find fairly detailed articles in reliable sources that discuss a released game, but the very last line of the article is something like "I hope the final version is as fun as this demo that I just played." And I do a facepalm because I just wasted all that time reading an article about a demo. But it is coverage, so maybe it counts toward establishing notability? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:55, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- I don't see why it wouldn't count towards GNG, as a demo is almost always pretty heavily representative of the final game. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:46, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, no reason at all why it wouldn't both be suitable for GNG purposes, and also for being cited for gameplay and the like. All GNG requires is in-depth coverage of the subject. An in-depth article about a game soon to come out is also suitable for GNG. There's no reason why we can't attribute information to an article that talks about only a part of the full game. Heck, if we required all reviews to have played the full game, we wouldn't have many citations at all. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:46, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe it's because I'm a programmer, but I don't think using demos to describe the gameplay of a released game is such a good idea. A demo is not "part of the full game", it's an entirely different product. It's a pain in the ass to maintain two different code bases, which is why some demos are removed from distribution. If the demo is still available, maybe. But if it has been deleted because it's so out of date that it's no longer representative of the game, no. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 14:07, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- I was suggesting to use common sense. There's plenty of demos that are simply parts of the main game. There's obviously some demos that contain things that aren't in the main title, but in most cases it's mostly the same stuff.
- Obviously, if the gameplay does vary significantly from what's in a demo review, then it's not suitable. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:04, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe it's because I'm a programmer, but I don't think using demos to describe the gameplay of a released game is such a good idea. A demo is not "part of the full game", it's an entirely different product. It's a pain in the ass to maintain two different code bases, which is why some demos are removed from distribution. If the demo is still available, maybe. But if it has been deleted because it's so out of date that it's no longer representative of the game, no. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 14:07, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- Definitely establishes notability. I think as long as proper context is given - the Wikipedia prose establishing that it about a demo in some capacity - you're good to go. Sergecross73 msg me 15:10, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- Previews can establish notability like reviews or other coverage. Sometimes the writer hasn't even played the game, for example in behind closed doors presentations. --Mika1h (talk) 18:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Good article reassessment/Afd for Haytham Kenway
A good article Haytham Kenway has been nominated for deletion. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the AfD page. Thank you. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 06:48, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Request for feedback at Naming conventions
Hello, I hope this is allowed or the right place for it. I would like to request some feedback in a section in Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (video games). The discussion regards a rule/guide in the Naming conventions page's Disambiguation section that seems to be inconsistently followed. I wasn't sure if it was something worth looking into fixing or if there was a reason for the discrepancy. Thanks! Ringtail Raider (talk) 16:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Merge proposal for Neo Geo Pocket/Color
I propose merging Neo Geo Pocket Color with Neo Geo Pocket (mono). I attempted to find more information on Neo Geo Pocket (mono) to see if it was notable on its own, but I couldn't find much. It only existed for one year, released 9 titles, and was immediately replaced by its color version. On top of that, only released in Japan and Hong Kong apparently. it reminds me of the WonderSwan where both the mono and the color version are under one article.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 13:50, 18 June 2024 (UTC)