Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard
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Four Corners (Canada)
This "place" doesn't even exist, and there is no proper name attached to it, except by those who have fabricated this as a spinoff of Quadripoint (which also is OR and should be reviewed as such and was formerly title "Four Corners"). There's not even a true fourway boundary point here, the boundaries don't meet up at a "crossroads". Lots of "reaching" and over-justifying here, buried under verbiage which makes this sound legitimate, and continued use of the term Four Corners in this article and in Quadripoint to retrench the use of that term as if anyone used it. There is no place called "Four Corners" in Canada, certainly not capitalized as if it were a proper name and legitimate/real concept. Wikipedia is not for trivia, nor for documenting the assemblage of trivia as a hobby.Skookum1 (talk) 07:27, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
Taj Mahal
An editor at Taj Mahal is adding material which, s/he claims, represents a "feminist" point of view on the monument. It is difficult to summarise the issue here, as the editor is bringing in several sources to support a fairly obscure journalistic article, which raises serparate questions of WP:NOTE and WP:RS. My concern is with the use of the more legitimate sources is WP:SYN, that they are being used to advance an argument about an alleged feminist position which the sources themselves are not making. The editor writes:
Begley [Wayne E. Begley, ‘The Myth of the Taj Mahal'] goes on to quote many authentic sources to underline how Shahjahan's monument was 'intended to symbolise his glory and not only his devotion'. (p. 10) He says that monument 'served as a symbol, as it were of imperial destiny....a tangible manifestation of his magnificent obsession with his own greatness'. (ibid). That Taj Mahal has served as an image to advance the male notions of power is a logical inference of this argument. That non-notable journalistic article also draws upon many such studies to underline how Taj is not just a monument of love--but a manifestation of a male-cum-royal grandeur.
Of course I have no objection to Begley's discussion of the dynastic symbolism of the monument. My concern is that this is then used to make statements about "male power" (though the commission of a grand monument by the previous Shah's widow is not used to make claims about "female" power) Paul B (talk) 16:14, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
- My request to the editors: Please do read the entire discussion on Taj Mahal: Talk page before making a comment as you would notice lot of prejudices at work. thanks. Saramohanpur1940 (talk) 17:18, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
- Indeed please do read the whole discussion: Talk:Taj_Mahal#Cultural_Image_of_Tajmahal:_Criticism_by_Feminists. Paul B (talk) 17:25, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Also: For WP: Note and WP:RS, also see ‘exceptions’ stating “If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it.” For WP: SYN, please read full articles on the blog as mentioned and Begley’s article too.
The present discussion should also bear in mind this guideline of Wikipedia: “Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources. All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view. NPOV is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia and of other Wikimedia projects. This policy is nonnegotiable and all editors and articles must follow it.”
Saramohanpur1940Saramohanpur1940 (talk) 17:31, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Semantic infiltration
Anyone want to take a crack at Semantic infiltration? It was created by an obvious sockpuppet and I've already removed some of the most unsuitable content, but there still appears to be a good deal of OR and SPS. If you think it just ought to be TNT'd that's cool too, I thought I'd just bring it here first. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Gayre's thesis regarding Ancient Zimbabwe
I am writing to ask whether, with your help and input, it might be possible to find an acceptable way of summarizing a few points made by Robert Gayre in his book (and maybe his articles) explaining why he favours the 'Semitic' theory for the origin of the ancient Zimbabwean Civilization. Some Wikipedia readers are undoubtedly curious and interested to learn what the arguments are - both for and against the 'Semitic' theory (and indeed the 'Shona' theory, too).
In the 'Lemba' section of the Wikipedia 'Great Zimbabwe' page, the old summary which was there until 4th May, was deemed to contain 'Original Research', and therefore inappropriate for Wikipedia.
OK, I won't argue with that - but I am wondering if there might be a way of compromising - by simply extracting the relevant points from Gayre's book - and then presenting them - without discussing how they might relate to other people's findings. Could we then regard such a text, as not comprising 'Original Research'?
If so, this is how it might look:
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1. The Lemba were esteemed by neighbouring tribes as exceptionally skilled miners and metal workers; (these were distinctive features of the Zimbabwean Civilization).
2. The stone phallic symbols discovered in some of the ancient ruins, were models of circumcised male organs; (that is significant because surrounding tribes regarded the Lemba as the masters and originators of the art of circumcision).
3. The Lemba buried their dead in an extended rather than a crouched position, (i.e., they chose the same style as that found in certain Zimbabwean graves which contained gold jewellery).
4. The old Lemba language was a dialect of Karanga (which is the language spoken today in the area around Great Zimbabwe).
Thus, Gayre argues that the South African Lemba are probably descended from members of the original community who fled southwards when Great Zimbabwe was captured by non-Semites.
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It goes without saying that all suggestions for modification, will be well received.
Dougweller also asked me to mention that we have been discussing this topic at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Great_Zimbabwe
With thanks in anticipation, DLMcN (talk) 21:00, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
- Gayre's thesis no longer has support among the vast majority scholars. It is mentioned in the article as a matter of historical interest. To expand the existing section without violating WP:UNDUE would require at least one reliable contemporary source, which appears not to exist. In the absence of a reliable source, the requesting editor has constructed various formulations that are clearly original research, reflecting material self-published elsewhere on the Web (which has also raised WP:COI issues. Johncoz (talk) 11:48, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Lighthouse Pub
The creator of the Lighthouse Pub article has used his own blog [1] as a source and claims to be a former journalist [2]. If he can provide examples of his past work in the relevant field from reliable sources, could his blog be considered a self-published expert source, therefore passing the WP:NOR requirement? --Drm310 (talk) 19:30, 8 May 2013 (UTC)