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September 28

What if???

What would happen if the Queen of England should die (may that day be far away)? Who would suceed the throne? And, above all, if it is a man, what would happen with the English national anthem? Would it be changed to "God Save the King"? If any knowledgable person, (or Brit), should know the answer to my questions, please, for charity's sake, help a poor, lost, and utterly ignorant American. (Even so, I'd rather be American than British :-)  ! | AndonicO 00:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The articles on Queen Elizabeth and British royalty should answer the first part of the question. With you being a registered user, I'm surprised that you didn't first check the article on the current Queen to see her infobox where it says who the heir to the throne will be. I have no idea about the national anthem. Dismas|(talk) 00:11, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The anthem changes according to the sex of the monarch. When George VI, the present Queen's father, was alive it was 'God Save the King'. The alteration is simple enough. White Guard 00:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But "God save the king" doesn't rhyme too well with "..it's a fascist regime". 惑乱 分からん 01:10, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It improves the rhyme with "...(s)he ain't no human being", though. And given Mr. Rotten's, shall we say, unique diction, he'd make it rhyme. As well as any of the song rhymes. --ByeByeBaby 06:26, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh well; well just have to stop being Fascists. White Guard 01:17, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

AndonicO, you might have been reading breathless media speculation (which has been going on for decades - those people really need to inhale) that the throne could pass directly to Prince William, rather than to his father Prince Charles. That would only happen if Charles died before his mother the Queen did. Unfortunately for those who peddle such stuff, there's no law that says an heir gets displaced just because some people don't like him/her. JackofOz 02:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The suggestion has been made on a few occasions that Charles might step aside and let William be king on the Queen's death. Very unlikely, but it's a possibility. --Richardrj talk email 05:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Again, this suggestion betrays the public (or, I suppose, the media)'s ignorance: he couldn't simply "step aside" — the throne doesn't require the consent of the heir to pass to him. He'd become King the instant the Queen died, and would have to abdicate formally, which would require an Act of Parliament. And even then he'd still have been King, even if only for a relatively short time. Proteus (Talk) 07:59, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. I think it was Terry Pratchett who postulated the existence of elementary particles called "kingons" or "queenons" which automatically travel from the monarch to the heir on death :). Inheritance is like that, there was an aristocrat - Lord Stamp, chairman of the London Midland and Scottish Railway - who was killed in an air raid in the second world war together with his son and heir; the courts ruled that the father had died an instant before the son, and therefore the Treasury collected two lots of death duties (inheritance taxes) from the family! -- Arwel (talk) 12:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That album is well known for rhyming anarchist and antichrist, one more atrocious rhyme would not go amiss. MeltBanana 02:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks for the information, and I'll look harder next time for my question before asking. | AndonicO 09:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And yes, titles of other things in Britain - like, for example, Queen's Counsel, change according to the Monarch's gender. One of the things that doesn't - conveniently - is the abbreviation HRH. It doesn't matter whether it's His or Her Royal Highness. Same abbreviation still goes! Strictly speaking, the Monarch actually needs to ask to abdicate, but parliament would never refuse. That's as useless as a North Korean Human Rights Act. 82.152.197.131 19:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Point of order here. First, the king or queen is not HRH, that is for lesser royals. The sovereign is His or Her Majesty ie. HM Queen Elizabeth. Secondly, the British National Anthem is not God Save The Queen (failing whom, King). It is God Save our Gracious Queen (failing whom, King).
Agree with the first bit. No to the second bit. The opening line is "God save our gracious Queen", but the title of the song is "God Save the Queen". JackofOz 09:11, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

forklift drivers ed

I want to learn to drive a forklift,get the license etc. that they need to have these days. But I can not find any training outfits that will work with a unemployed person. I.E. You allready have to have a job that the employers will arange for in house training. There used to be training in the local Jr. college here in the Dallas Texas area but they gave in up. Thanks

The company that I used to work for trained me, though I already had a different job with the company when I bid on the forklift driver job. So, will the companies that you're applying to not even consider you without being first trained? Seems like an obvious Catch 22 for the company. Dismas|(talk) 01:31, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

my previous employer refused to train me because I was on the night shift and the trainers refused to work nights, so I was left out on training. Now I am unemployed and I can not get trained to be employed.

Crossover of political ideologies

I was reading part of wikipedia's extensive series on political ideologies when an idea struck me. Most people would agree that Communism is more left then Socialism. But Libertarian socialism seems to be more left the Christian communism. How can that be? The only answer I can think of is that Communism isn't a political ideology in itself.

Both "communism" and "socialism" are words that have a whole scala of meanings, and what is more left than what is open to debate, for lack of a good definition of "left". The original meaning of "communism" was to describe a form of socio-economical organization with common ownership of the means of production, not necessarily applied to a whole society but usually to a commune, many of which had an idealistic religious basis. As such it is essentially originally a descriptive term, just like hunter-gatherer society and capitalism, or post-industrial society. Socialism, on the other hand, originally was a political philosophy and movement. Marx considered himself a socialist, part of a larger socialist movement, who aspired to achieve communism as the economic form defining society. In his definition that also included the "withering away" of the nation state. Engels also used the term "socialism" for a kind of halfway communism. Largely, however, the terms were used interchangeably at the time, and represented a wide spectrum of doctrines and visions, from rather radical to quite moderate, and many religiously inspired. This changed when the Bolshevik faction of the Russian Social-Democratic Labour Party, after the October Revolution, changed its name to Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks). The term "communism" came to refer primarily to the socio-economico-political system of the Soviet Union, and internationally to a political ideology of subservient orientation on the Soviet Union. However, not all movements that traditionally used to call themselves "communist" ceased to do so. You mentioned Christian communism. Anarcho-communists saw the developments in the Soviet Union with horror (the lack of love was mutual) but kept their name. Many people (and particularly anarcho-communists themselves) would agree that this movement was at the far left of the socialist spectrum and definitely to the left of Soviet-oriented communism. Then there is Left communism and Council communism, and countless parties with "Communist" in their names, all sharing the conviction that the use of the term "communism" for anything having to do with the self-serving nomenklatura of the Soviet Union was a form of Newspeak.
I do not agree that Libertarian socialism is more left than Christian communism, or, in any case, most forms of the latter are more radical than most forms of the former. But as a movement, Christian communism tends to be less political than Libertarian socialism, less operating from an aspiration that all of society be organized a certain way.  --LambiamTalk 03:05, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
With the totalitarian control of State Socialism (what they had in the USSR and which is often referred to as communism), one could argue that it is actually rightwing. Like Lambian said, the terminology is either rather vague or has become vague by misuse. One could also say that pure communism (do what you can, take no more than what you need), is based on the goodness of the people and therefore makes politics obsolete and is thus not a political ideology. Btw, when reading about communism in the English Wikipedia, be aware that it is written mostly by US citizens and other westerners and therefore heavily biased. I tried giving input but that got reverted so often that I gave up. And I won't be the only one. Wikipedia is quite reliable when it comes to technology and teh hard sciences, but the social sciences are largely either under- or mis-represented. DirkvdM 09:39, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is a much simpler explanation. Political philosophies are not beads on a string, where the position of every bead can be designated in a 1 dimensional array. It is your mental model that is defective. alteripse 15:07, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

International Relations/Diplomacy from Sept. 2001 - May 2003

Hello, I am looking for some specific information and I wondered if anyone here could point me in the direction of a site/link/articles etc. with this specific information: I am interested in knowing in terms of presidents/prime ministers/etc. about who said what to whom and when and where they (or important representatives of them such as Foreign Ministers etc.) met up for the period from the 9/11 terrorist attacks up to the fall of Baghdad April 2003, if possible in chronological order, ie: ALL the international diplomacy taking place in this period. I have read 100s of pages (and wiki-articles) so far (incl. UN resolutions too) but am not really getting the info I need, if there were something specific, that would be great. I am particularly interested in 1) meetings/conferences with participants, and 2) press releases with official & unofficial/hear-say statements from as many governments as possible, 3) international diplomacy chronological timelines both multi- and bilateral (apart from the UN). Thank you very much. ==ALang==

That's an awful lot of information you want to know. My recommendation would be that you find a good library with newspaper and magine archives, and spend a couple of weeks perusing those. Several better newspapers let you consult their archived articles online against payment of money, but that does not seem a reasonable option here – unless you have unlimited resources, in which case you're better off hiring some historians to do the research for you. If you have a more specific request, we might be able to give a more specific pointer.  --LambiamTalk 03:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I´ve combed through archives of cnn.com & wikipedia & many news/political sites (and many weeks) but I only get a fraction of the info, I want to research myself and have limited (regular worker) resources, also only online in internet if possible. I would need to know the detailed movements and – more importantly - statements of country leaders/foreign ministers especially of key figures (Chirac,Blair,Powell,Putin,Taliban etc. etc.) right down to periphery players (such as, say, Uribe or Fox too), specifically in terms of the current global conflict in this period Sept. 2001 – April 2003, especially appertaining to 9/11, Afganistan and Iraq. Within this context also agreements/conclusions/speeches etc. For example, free online sites like: [[1]] and [[2]], relating where possible but not necessarily exclusively to the above-mentioned thematic. Hope this makes more sense, thanks again. ==Alang==

Finding specific court cases from the subject of law

Is there any way to find the names of related court cases from the subject of law I'm studying?

The preceding message was brought to us through SBC Internet Services.

From the IP provider I infer that you're probably more interested in U.S. law than for example the Law of Papua New Guinea. But what is the subject you're studying? And isn't the state relevant? Or are you primarily interested in Federal law?  --LambiamTalk 03:35, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
See Westlaw. Your TA, teacher, librarian at the law school,or classmates are a good place to ask procedural questions like this. You may need a password or used ID to use this service. Edison 04:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Findlaw.com is also sometimes useful for this sort of thing. --Fastfission 18:47, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The equivalent in Canada is called Quicklaw. Yet either way, unless the questioner is a law student at an eligible law school, both Westlaw and Quicklaw are extremely expensive. (They provide it free to law students to get you "hooked". But once you graduate it's something crazy like $3 a minute). Loomis 06:12, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

QUESTION ABOUT BIOGRAPHY OF FRANSISCO GOYA

Re: QUESTION ABOUT BIOGRAPHY OF FRANSISCO GOYA

What was the cause of death of the painter Francisco Goya. The Wikipage doesn't list a cause of death.

The painter suffered with deafness when he became older. He was diagnosed with Saturnism. This is lead poisoning. One of the symptoms is deafness. It was common to add lead powder to wine during wine making. Educated people drank wine as it was believed to be safer than water. I have also read that Goya had syphallis.

Perhaps he had syphallis & Saturnism, but what ultimately was the cause of death?

Here's an article from the NY Times. It also doesn't talk about cause of death. Can you research this and update the page? Can you let me know if you find an answer?

Gonzalez in Margate, Florida 66.239.212.31 22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[3]--Light current 16:14, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ok, the link you posted does remark on the artist's death, but still doesn't give a cause of death...will there be more help or...am I out of luck? thank you, Gonzalez in Margate, Florida 66.239.212.31 22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There may be more help later. Or if you cant wait, you could try to follow all the links that we would follow. And then follow the links given in the links etc. thats all we do!--Light current 22:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

1828 Goya's health worsens, and on April 2nd his right side becomes paralyzed. He dies on April 16th, and is buried in France.

22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


What's with the ticket number? Also, I've removed the separating lines. They're very confusing because they normally separate threads. DirkvdM 08:01, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


OK, I'll wait for a response. This was my first time posting at WIKI. I have researched the issue of the cause of death of Goya a great deal on my own already. WIKI was my last hope. I can wait. Hopefully, you'll have more success that I have had. Sorry about the segmented lines. I didn't know they weren't allowed. Regarding the ticket #. I have removed it. Originally I emailed WIKIPEDIA because I didn't know about this forum. 66.239.212.79 13:39, 29 September 2006 (UTC) Gonzalez in Margate...[reply]

There won't be a definitive response. It's impossible for us to know what Goya's illness was, but as in so many cases, it's also impossible for us to refrain from guessing. Goya's biographers seem to have opted either for syphillis or lead encephalopathy. You may find this article of interest. Note that other diseases have been suggested (in the article abstract for "What ailed Goya?" PMID 10541154,

At age 46, Francisco de Goya (1746-1828) suffered from a severe illness that lasted several months. It caused loss of vision and hearing, tinnitus, disorientation, weakness, abdominal distress, and general malaise. After a few months he recuperated but was left deaf forever. In addition to the physical effects, his emotional health and artwork were affected. The precise cause of this illness has long been debated. One early, but unlikely, hypothesis was that he had syphilis. Later conjectures have included Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada disease and lead toxicity. Cogan's syndrome and vasculitis are additional possibilities, although neither is likely to have been Goya's diagnosis. An infectious disease such as meningitis, encephalitis, or malaria is far more likely. Quinine toxicity (cinchonism) may have complicated the illness.

.) Of course, whatever this illness was, it doesn't seem to have been the cause of death! - Nunh-huh 00:12, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


It's impossible to know because there is no definitive diagnosis attributed to his death at the time he died?

It seems likely to have been a venereal disease. His talent was world wide and I doubt that anyone who knew him or admired his art would want to admit to anyone that he died of a venereal disease.

Of course, that's just conjecture. I thought WIKIPEDIA would have found the answer where I failed to fine one.

I think it rather unlikely that syphilis is the cause of death, since there was apparently no deterioration in Goya's condition from age 47 to his death at 82. Syphilis doesn't work like that, so it's peculiar to suggest that syphillis was the cause of his neurological problem at age 40 and also killed him at age 82 with no new problems in-between. That didn't stop nineteenth century biographers from saying it was syphilis, of course. All retrospective diagnoses are questionable, and Goya's is no exception, which is why a definitive statement would be false. But additional historical information on his cause of death may exist, and it may be unrelated to the illness at age 46. - Nunh-huh 01:22, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Do you have some sort of medical training? I came to this site to find definitive evidence, not congecture.

Moleosophy

Does anyone know what it means if a man has a mole in the section of lower jaw (right side). Is it good or bad?

I tried 'moleosophy' in wikipedia and followed the link

http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/astdiv/melampus.html

but they only have given generally that if a man has mole in his chins, he will get gold and silver, and nothing said about jaws. Thankyou

See a doctor for medical advice. Moles can be melanoma.Edison 20:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why would a mole on your jaw be bad? I have two there. Don't be a Hypochondriac~ — X [Mac Davis] (SUPERDESK|Help me improve)01:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ahh moles! Could they be the new funny animals we have allbeen seeking?--Light current 03:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

oliver twist

find the impact of industrial revolution on children through charles dickens works oliver twist

You could watch the video instead. A lot easier and quicker. 8-)--Light current 15:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"My research into the impact of industrial revolution on children shows that singing and dancing were extremely popular with the underprivileged child classes. Even when obviously malnourished and existing only on a diet of 'grew-ell' a simple dance routine accompanied by a sombre song was obligitory in all orphanages and workhouses. In the criminal underclasses singing was more popular, with battered and abused wives using song to cheer themselves up after particularly vicious attacks, often using the song as a justification for remaining in the abusive relationships. Subsistence workers, such as flower sellers and knife grinders would announce their presence with a song, always ensuring that they harmonised with the other sellers they were in competition with. Presumably some form of training was established to standardise the harmonies." DJ Clayworth 19:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More help please

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5yo6.jpg

and this manuscript. Preferablly the language. Only a few are in existence.

http://www.sortitoutsi.net/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=6296

this piece of music.

Cheers

That is a fascinating manuscript. It appears to have some elaborate nontextual notation, with lines of apparent text scribbled between the lines of nontext. The main point of the document seems to be the nontext notation, which I am guessing might be some kind of musical notation. I believe that the text uses a medieval European script derived from the Roman alphabet, but beyond that, I can't really identify it. There are a few words that could be Latin. While I have some knowledge of Latin and of medieval script, I could not parse much and don't think that it is Latin after all. My next guess would be Old Irish, but I don't know Old Irish and therefore can't confirm that it is Old Irish.
Can you tell us where you found this document? Marco polo 15:41, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It`s being used as a question in a quiz beyond that I haven`t the foggiest where it came from.

Apart from all the ciphers included, it appears to possibly contain examples of tengwar letters, such as the ones J.R.R. Tolkien used for writing "native" Quenya. Does this make any sense? 惑乱 分からん 17:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not really...I don`t think anyone will get that Question..hopefully someone will get the music piece.

Image:Book of Ballymote 170r.jpg Ogham MeltBanana 17:53, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Aaahh, ogham is "old Irish", indeed... ;) 惑乱 分からん 19:06, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but I am embarrassed to discover that what I thought were nontext notations are in fact the Ogham script. Marco polo 19:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
well, from what I can see this is actually centre about some minor shifting in an action/object or movement, this could be musical of some sort but that seems unlikely to me. also you should remember that in medieval times pages were bewritten multiple times because papyrus and other scribematerials were expensive. about the text added, it seems to hold some connections to the ancient/greek/russian/arabic languages.Graendal 20:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry to say, but the question is answered, already... =S 惑乱 分からん 21:22, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This type of question comes up here very often. I used to answer the questions, but I've been unable to get the questioner to answer my question: What quiz? Until the questioner can tell me what quiz this is that asks people to name imageshack images, I will not provide an answer as to what the images are. --Kainaw (talk) 02:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Does it really matter? The reference desk if for reference, not to cross examine the questioner.
It would have been polite to tell us... 惑乱 分からん 09:43, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Imageshack is just the website that the questioner uploads the images to. It's not a quiz about "imageshack images". --Richardrj talk email 10:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It is a quiz of some sort. Every week, we get the same thing: "What is this image on imageshack? Please answer fast so I can beat everyone else!" What is the quiz? Is it a radio contest? It is a television contest? Is it a school assignment? The questioner never answers. We just get more random images every week and no explanation. --Kainaw (talk) 14:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It`s just a simple quiz where the quizmaster uploads the pics to IS in order so that we can figure out what they are. They`re are a lot more than this and I just ask about the ones I can`t answer. Is it really such a huge deal? You can live safe in the knowledge I won`t come to here for help again. I abhore high and mighty people.

Sorry, then. We'd just like an explanation. If it was a competition, you would have used our combined knowledge unfairly. You have come back here several times, already. Would an explanation of your reasons be too much to ask for? 惑乱 分からん 16:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

information organization

I have a plenty amount of information which i have to remember everyday.I have many many office paper files about which i quickly forget.Would anybody suggest simple and polpular ways of organizing information ?

I'd start at Library classification. Although the first part of that article lists popular types of classification in use at libraries, which may or may not be useful for your office files, the part of the article called simply classification gives a more general overview of classification systems, and following the various links in that section may help if you decide to devise your own personal classification system. Chuck 18:41, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Florida south of Georgia

What country owned florida before the United States

See our article History of Florida. -- --LambiamTalk 18:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Define 'country', define 'own' and define 'Florida'. For example, one might argue that the Indians inhabiting the region now known as 'Florida' still have the greatest title to that piece of land (in as far as one can call it 'land :) ). DirkvdM 08:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Election posters

There's a general election coming up in Austria, and as a result there are political posters everywhere. The thing that strikes me is that almost every poster, for every party, features a large photo of one or other of the candidates. This phenomenon seems to be widespread in continental Europe (not sure about North America), but it's very rare in the UK. There, election posters invariably feature some fancy graphic design or piece of symbolism (e.g. the Tories' famous 'Labour isn't working' poster in 1979).

What is going on here from a semiotic perspective? I suspect that British political parties, or their ad agencies, realise that the British people are so cynical about politicians as a breed that they are unlikely to be swayed by a picture of the candidate, no matter how photogenic they are. Indeed, they may be turned off voting for someone if they are particularly ugly. Are voters in continental Europe somewhat less cynical? Are they more likely than the Brits to vote for someone on the basis of a perceived trustworthiness in their personal appearance? Or are European politicians just more attractive than British ones? --Richardrj talk email 18:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can add that in the United States, this kind of poster is almost unknown. Sometimes you will get a flyer in the mail that includes a photo of the candidate, usually surrounded by his smiling family (see, he's a regular guy, his wife loves him, you should too). But posters tend to have just the name of the candidate, design elements or colors from the U.S. flag, and maybe a slogan. Marco polo 19:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I once read that British election laws don't allow for campaign ads on television. If this is true it might help explain the UK's less personalized approach. On a sidenote, I've hardly ever seen lawn signs used in European election campaigns. ---Sluzzelin 20:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Election posters with photos are very common in Australia. What's just as common, despite being illegal, is for posters to be left in place long after the election is over. JackofOz 20:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've often thought about collecting all of the old posters and dumping them on the candidate's lawn, but I'd probably be arrested for littering. User:Zoe|(talk) 20:31, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What you want to do is find those huge 4 x 8 foot signs that are backed with plywood. We lived on a major thoroughfare back in the 70s and had about four of those signs on our front yard. My dad used the plywood after the election to build a new clothesline stand. It's still standing. --Charlene.fic 10:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It depends on where you are in the US. When I was living in Missouri, nobody put their picture on their posters. In southern California and in Hawaii, it was sporadic. Now, I live in South Carolina and it is expected that if you are white and you aren't a household name (like Thurmond), then you put your picture on your poster so people know you are white. If you are black, you leave your picture off so people don't know you are black. Yes, it is racist. But, you are dealing with a state that is always pushing for the worst education award (thank God for Louisiana). --Kainaw (talk) 02:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Leaflets will generally have a picture of the applicable candidate on them in the UK - one of the things about posters is that they tend to be national posters, rather than individual constituency ones, so the only person it would make sense to show is the party leader. Similarly with our lawn signs, if you're driving past you don't want the big thing to be a photo - the electorate will have a hard time figuring out who that person is, which party they are, or anything else, if all they see is a happy smiling random face - far more useful is the well known party symbols. So leaflets == photos good. Posters == photos rarely applicable. Lawn signs == photos bad. --Mnemeson 21:18, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(answering the original question) To the best of my knowledge, the ppl in continental Europe are as cynical as the ppl of the UK in regards of politicians and political parties. I suspect that the posters show the candidate (normaly the symbol, the name, or the initials of the party appear somewhere) so that the potential voter never confuses anything: "Aha, Mr X is of party Y, so to vote for X I have to make my mark in the box besides party Y". This seems really easy, but the easier you make it the less the voter has to strain his poor brain. In many European countries the campaigns are also highly personalized (i.e. focus upon the candidate and less upon the party) therefore you show his face more often, ad nauseam. Flamarande 21:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We don't really have election posters in America. Most Americans don't live in places where you could reach them with a poster -- they drive from parking lot to parking lot and live in detached homes surrounded by lawns. We do have the above-mentioned election lawn signs, but they almost never have photos on them -- only names and party affiliations. TV ads, though, do show the candidate -- not only because they have to by law, but because American elections are heavily personality-focused. There are generally two kinds of campaign ads in the U.S.: The kind that show the candidate surrounded by a loving family, and the kind that misleads people into thinking the candidate's opponent is a child-molesting devil. -- Mwalcoff 02:41, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You don't have all those ugly signs at every intersection from home to work? Man, I wish they'd pass some law to ban those here. --Kainaw (talk) 02:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No, but they're plastered on the bumpers of cars until they fade and peel or get replastered four years later. Political posters do appear in the States, but they're usually in urban areas and tend to be low budget plugs for liberal causes that get wheat pasted to telephone poles where they remain until they rot. Durova 07:36, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Again, it depends on the part of the US. I have generally lived in urban areas of the US. We have political posters in addition to lawn signs. They tend to be similar to the lawn signs and get placed in windows, often prominently overlooking intersections where drivers can see them. Also, candidates schedule "visibilities" during the week before the election where volunteers stand in mass around major intersections actually holding the posters. If two or more candidates schedule a visibility for the same intersection, you get the spectacle of their supporters jostling for position. Marco polo 14:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In this part of the US (Spokane area), lawn signs come in two sizes: the 18"x30" "standard" signs that pop up everywhere, and the just-this-side-of-being-regulated-as-a-billboard signs that are used in particularly visible locations. Both sizes have the same content: the candidate's name (last name in much larger type than first name), party affiliation, and usually either the word "elect" or the position they're running for. --Serie 19:28, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If photos are forbidden in the UK, then there'e at least one thing that is good about the UK electoral system then. Voting should be about ideals and parties, not people. In the Netherlands, if I remember correctly, photos aren't uncommon for municipal elections, but they're never used for national elections. Not sure if that is a result of the law. Btw, the lawn signs article says they're placed near a polling station, which seems a bad thing (not just aesthetically, but also politically). In the Netherlands, political ads or campaigning are forbidden near polling stations, and that makes a lot of sense to me. DirkvdM 08:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It is not accurate that lawn signs are necessarily near polling stations. They are anywhere and everywhere that supporters of the candidate live, preferably in places with high visibility due to traffic. I will go and fix the article. Marco polo 14:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the UK, as a general rule we're not allowed to campaign within 100m of a polling station (although that rule can alter depending on local bylaws) (e.g. in Birmingham, campaigning is only forbidden inside the polling station itself) --Mnemeson 09:35, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Roughly the same rule applies in every state where I've lived in the United States, though the limit might be closer than 100m. Maybe 50 yards, since we don't use meters. Marco polo 14:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the UK the candidate's election address, which is usually delivered free by post to each voter, will usually contain the candidate's photo (often also a photo of him/her with the party leader or another bigwig, though in the 2005 general election it was commented how few Labour candidates sullied their election addresses with a photo of Tony Blair). In the 1997 General Election so many Labour candidates won who were not expected to, and thus were unknown outside their locality, that they were told to bring their election address with them the first time they went to Parliament as their proof of identity! The free delivery of the election address is one reason why there are usually so many "fringe" candidates at by-elections - they often use the address as free advertising for their businesses! -- Arwel (talk) 13:24, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In California, the election ads for Phil Angelides have more photos of Arnold Schwartzenegger campaigning for George W. Bush, than they do of Angelides. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

10 Downing Street

Heres an interesting question I can't find the answer to anywhere - who actually owns 10 Downing Street (or the White House for that matter). Do they have some special status? I doubt the Prime Minister (or President) actually takes ownership of the houses while they're in office?

EAi 21:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to our article on 10 Downing Street, "In 1732 King George II offered 10 Downing Street and the "house at the back" to Robert Walpole (often called the first Prime Minister) in gratitude for his services to the nation. Walpole accepted only on the condition that they would be a gift to the office of First Lord of the Treasury rather than to himself personally." So, the office of the First Lord of the Treasury owns it (not the First Lord him/herself) --Mnemeson 21:52, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, ok. So, who could sell it if they wanted to? Would it take an act of parliament to do so if they wanted to? EAi 22:02, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt it would take an Act of Parliament - the office of Lord High Treasurer is part of the government, so the government own it, the government could probably sell it. --Mnemeson 22:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The U.S. government owns the White House and the land it is on. It was bought from private landowners and given by the state of Maryland to the Federal Government, when the District of Columbia was created, and the White House was built, rebuilt, remodelled several times, and rebuilt with appropriations from Congress. Edison 03:50, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The White House is owned by the National Park Service. And it wouldn't have had to have been rebuilt the first time if the British hadn't burned it down. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Year 145

I need to do a presentation for school on what it was like to live in the year 145. I have no idea what was happening in the world at that time & searching for the year just tells me that a few unimportant people were born or died. What was the dominant society at the time? Were the Romans still thriving? Were there any important advances in technology or knowledge in the years leading up to 145? Were there any regime changes or wars around that time? Thanks!

Well it depends hugely on where you're talking about? If you're talking about Europe, then yes the Roman Empire was very much alive then. EAi 21:52, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Were there other, more dominant societies in existence in the world at the time?
Note: Sign your messages using ~~~~ after them. Well, not that I'm aware of, but my knowledge of non-European history at that time is negligible. The article 2nd century could give you some pointers, but theres not much there. This might help as well... The chinese had quite an advanced civilisation at the same time - see Timeline of Chinese history and History of China. I'm not sure about South America. EAi 21:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
See List of empires. StuRat 22:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If you want something on this specific year, 145 has a bit of information, including governmental changes. Dar-Ape (talk) 01:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I like to think what it might have been like to travel around the world at some point in the distant past, and so I am grateful for your question, as it offered me an excuse to write about what such a voyager might have witnessed around 145 CE. As others have pointed out, the Roman Empire was at the height of its power in the Mediterranean Basin and western Europe. In 145, Antoninus Pius was emperor. To the north, the Germanic peoples controlled most of northern Europe. Some of the more prominent tribal groups were the Goths, in the Vistula basin, and the powerful confederation of the Marcomanni, centered in the present-day Czech Republic. To the east, a tense peace existed between the Romans and the Parthian Empire, which was about as strong as Rome and controlled Mesopotamia, parts of the Arabian Peninsula, present-day Iran, and parts of Central Asia. In Africa to the south, Rome controlled Egypt and the Maghreb. However, the Kingdom of Kush remained independent in present-day Sudan, and the Kingdom of Axum was a regional power in present-day Ethiopia. To the southwest, the Iron Age Nok culture was near its peak in present-day Nigeria, while the Bantu-speaking peoples, who also had iron technology, had begun to spread from Central Africa into Southern Africa.
This period was a time of thriving trade among different parts of Eurasia. Some of this trade moved overland along the Silk Road, connecting China with the Parthian Empire and Rome. The Silk Road also facilitated the spread of Buddhism from South Asia to China and the rest of East Asia. It was around this time that Buddhism had split into the Hinayana and Mahayana schools. Key to the spread of Buddhism was the Kushan Empire, which dominated present-day Afghanistan, Pakistan, northern India, and parts of Central Asia. Another group involved in the spread of Buddhism were the mysterious Tocharians, who lived in the Tarim Basin of present-day China. Elsewhere in India, the Satavahana ruled much of central India, while the Pandyan Kingdom ruled in the south. This was the heyday of Buddhist culture in India.
This was also a time of thriving seaborne trade, particularly on the Indian Ocean. The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea offers evidence of extensive trade between Roman ports in Egypt and ports in East Africa and India. At the same time, trade from India to the east across the Indian Ocean was spreading Buddhism, Hinduism, and other elements of Indian culture to Southeast Asia, including the early kingdom of Funan and present-day Indonesia.
At the eastern end of the Silk Road was perhaps the world's most advanced civilization of the time, China, then ruled by the Han Dynasty. The year 145 saw the brief reigns of the Emperors Chong Di and Zhi Di. Much farther east and south, Polynesian culture was gradually spreading east across the Pacific. Around 145, it had probably reached Tahiti but had not yet reached Hawaii.
In the Americas, the Hopewell culture of the present-day U.S. Midwest was near its cultural peak, producing earthwork mounds that survive to this day. In central Mexico, the great city of Teotihuacán was gaining in power and would soon dominate central Mexico. To the east, Maya civilization was developing toward its Classic phase in city-states such as Tikal. Meanwhile in Peru, the civilizations of Moche and Nazca left evidence of advanced societies.
Obviously there was a lot more of interest at that time than the Roman Empire!
Marco polo 01:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That seems like a very good summary, except that Nigeria (and therefore its Nok cilization) is better described as west south west of the Kingdom of Aksum, as opposed to south, I think. Picaroon9288 01:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Quite right. Thank you. I have corrected my description. Marco polo 12:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A world traveler in 145 would have had many interesting places to visit.In Roman Britain, Hadrian's Wall across the north of England had just been completed, and Roman forces were battling with the Scots. In Rome, Pius I was the Pope. In the History of Christianity, the martyr Polycarp was living, who may have been a disciple of John the Apostle, who was Christ's "Beloved Disciple." The Han Dynasty ruled China. Japan was in the Yayoi period. The Teotihuacán civilization in Mexico had completed the Pyramid of the Sun and was at its peak. The Kingdom of Aksum ruled Ethiopa. Edison 04:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One small amendment to Edison's list: the Romans would not have been fighting the Scots in the north of England in 145 for the simple reason that the Scots had not yet arrived in what the Romans called Caledonia and England would not exist for another five hundred years. What you would have found-or may have found-is the Romans fighting the Picts to the north of a wall recently built across the north of Britain. White Guard 04:52, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. It's like "The Artist Formerly Known as Prince." I should have said "across the North of what is now England" and ""battling with the tribes in what is now Scotland." All the place names were meant geographically rather than ethnologically. In the article on Nikola Tesla there are nationalists who constantly revert to saying he was born in Croatia, a country which did not exist at the time. I am sorry to be guilty of the same error.Edison 06:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Black Americans: Incarceration vs. Education

I am working on a project where I am comparing the rates of Black Americans (male and female)that are incarcerated vs. the rate of Black Americans that complete high school. Specifically the rates in Minnesota, but also the rates in the United States. If anyone could be of help, it would be appreciated!

You have two choices. You go to http://www.census.gov and get the information you want from the organization with the most money and manpower to produce a comprehensive report - which will not be 100% accurate for many reasons. Or, you can Google and use numbers from some random website that are picked, altered, or completely made up to back whatever the viewpoint of the author tends to be. --Kainaw (talk) 02:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"Or, you can Google and use numbers from some random website that are picked, altered, or completely made up to back whatever the viewpoint of the author tends to be" hmmz, still.... I would not be that quick to trust those figures of the sensus.gov . even though they might have near accurate figures they are still part of the US-government and therefore their reports are likely to be manipulated(not in general but I have found that this is true in most of the cases). I would actually try to go for UN or development agencies figures since chances are these are less edited Graendal 05:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
While the census bureau itself is pretty honest, one problem that does merit a mention is that a significant portion of the poorest Americans refuse to participate in the census. This might happen less among African-Americans than among immigrant groups because more of the latter fear deportation. To address the other part of the original question, does this cover total high school graduation or the percentage that complete high school in four years and graduate at age 17 or 18? It should be fairly easy to locate statistics on how many graduate with their peers - meaning how many received a standard diploma twelve years after starting first grade. The Minnesota state department of education should have that data. What would be harder to uncover is how many of those who didn't finish with the pack got their degrees anyway: quite a few of the people who don't graduate with their peers get the diploma one year later. Others pass the GED exam. Also, a small portion of students who don't graduate with their peers either skipped a grade and finished ahead of schedule or started college without attending their senior year of high school. If you want to earn an A on that paper, then devote some space to these caveats. Durova 07:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The U.S. Census includes a question on highest grade attained. Including different choices for having attended 12th grade but no diploma and high school diploma (one of the choices is even 4th grade or less!). Rmhermen 18:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]



You can bet that the numbers will be atrocious. Black American males, are incarerated at amazing percentages regardless of education or age.

Minnesota, like most upper midwestern states, does not contain significant populations of Blacks in small communities and therefore your study might also include a comparison of metropolitan and smaller communities.

You might want to visit the U.S. Bureau of Prisons website.

September 29

Photos of the Huang He (Yellow River)

Please,give me photos of the Huang He river in China I have 5 min. please.Thank you.72.148.117.237 00:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Our article on Huang_He_River has a map, a picture of something beside the river, and a picture of the river. Have you tried Googling for others? --Mnemeson 00:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Image:Lanzhou-rio-amarillo-d01.jpg is the only one I could find on English Wikipedia in that amount of time. The French Wikipedia shows [4] and [5], and here is a photo from Google. Picaroon9288 00:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

MIT

What kind of marks would you need to get in to MIT? I guess that also depends on how many people are admitted right? --The Dark Side 02:50, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Most American universities publish median grade point averages and standardized test scores. What they don't publish at the top level are the intangibles: MIT could fill its class each year with high school valedictorians, but they often select someone slightly lower in class rank (still in the top ten percent) who has something that 10,000 valedictorians don't have, such as a state championship in an engineering competition or part ownership of a patent on an invention or a publication in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
Basically make sure there's no good reason to reject you (all or nearly all As in math and science, nothing much worse than a B elsewhere) and distinguish yourself from the crowd in some way. One of the most straightforward methods to do this is to volunteer as a lab assistant at your nearest university. Durova 07:01, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Dark Side, are you talking about undergrad or graduate school? Different processes for them... Bwithh 16:57, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
All you need to do to get in is win the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair! — X [Mac Davis] (SUPERDESK|Help me improve)17:28, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The lower GPA students admitted to the Ivy League colleges are often "heritage" or "double heritage" admits, whose parent or parents attended the school, or athletes who are thought to be capable of helping the team have a winning season, or "development" admits, whose parents are very rich, and who have or who may be expected to donate millions of dollars. The admissions process is not merit based in all cases.Edison 20:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Nor is GPA the sole measure of merit! - Nunh-huh 23:58, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"Development" admits don't happen at universities that practice need-blind admission. All eight Ivies and MIT admit on a need-blind basis. Durova 03:28, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
According to this recent article about a book on this subject in The Economist, the Ivies do admit students for reasons of gaining influence or development possibilities e.g. Princeton admitting Al Gore's son despite average academic performance, as well as President Bush's niece even though she missed the application deadline by a month. The article and book suggests a deliberate favouring of rich applicants at e.g. Harvard as well - quote:"When it comes to the children of particularly rich donors, the bending-over-backwards reaches astonishing levels. Harvard even has something called a “Z” list—a list of applicants who are given a place after a year's deferment to catch up—that is dominated by the children of rich alumni.". The article also mentions Brown giving Michael Ovitz's son a special student place and Harvard and Yale are used as examples of strong bias towards legacy applicants (40% of legacy applicants get into Harvard compared with an overall applicant average of 11%) - both Kerry and W. Bush got into Yale despite being medicore students. etc. etc. (And need-blind is about student needs, not university needs anyway). Bwithh 16:57, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Argentina

Is the government in argentina honest in dealings with the citizens? ( they tell all info. there is no withholding)

My goodness: is there any government on this planet that is honest with its citizens? That of Argentina is probably no worse than most. White Guard 04:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

true enough, though due to the popular image and street image (of) there the citizens of argentina are far more sceptical than for let's say US-citizens (which imho aren't really sceptical). but what Ithink you might mean is the law system and its upholding. I'm sorry to disappoint you but I hold some knowledge about this subject (my dad had a study/bussenis trip there 2 weeks ago) and as it seems Argentina has like Chile one of the best lawsystems in the world. even if there is a high crimi-rate in both countries.Graendal 05:23, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Think of the poor people of Hungary. We all know that heads of government lie; but when you hear one admit it, now that really is something. White Guard 05:38, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, they admitted it, but knowing how governments are, that was probably a lie.  --LambiamTalk 17:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A good philosophical point. It depends, I suppose, on the context of the admission. If George Bush said in public that he had always lied to the American people one would also have to weigh up the value of that statement. But if he was overheard saying it, as was Ferenc Gyurcsány, that would be something quite different. White Guard 02:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Musical qualification

Does anyone know what the letters FIGCM might mean? They were written after the name of a music teacher in England in 1906. Thanks - G N Frykman 06:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Couldn't find anything on Google or in the OED, so I would guess it's defunct. FI usually means Fellow of the Institute of. Maybe CM is choir masters?--Shantavira 07:21, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fellow I__ G___ College of Music? alteripse 07:25, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

FAGCM means Fellow of the Australian Guild of Church Musicians. FGCM means Fellow or Fellowship of the Guild of Church Music in general. I don't know what the 'I' stands for. At first I thought it might represent a particular diocese, but none of the Church of England's dioceses starts with the letter 'I'. 'International' just doesn't sound right for a church music title in 1906. Irish? ---Sluzzelin 08:03, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to this: Fellow of the Incorporated Guild of Church Musicians --HJMG 08:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

HJMG - that is incredibly helpful! It is also incredibly likely for this particular schoolmaster. Many thanks - G N Frykman 18:05, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

canadians in vietnam war

I understand some canadians volentiered to join the american military to fight in vietnam. They were allowed to retain their decorations and badages from canada on their US military uniforms. What ever became of them? Thanks

According to this page [6], 4,000 Canadians served in Vietnam, and about 150 died or are MIA - there is a Memorial Wall in Windsor and Canadian Vietnam Veterans organizations. At least 2,000 of these had dual citizenship or became U.S. citizens - they probably returned to the U.S. Other went home to Canada. (See also Canada and the Vietnam War). Peter C. Lemon was the only Canadian recipient of the U.S.'s Medal of Honor in the Vietnam War. Rmhermen 18:50, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Does Wikipedia have an article about a mercurial sword?

I wanted to know if Wikipedia has any information about a mercurial sword, a sword with a hollow blade that has a basin of mercury at its hilt. When swung, the mercury would flow to the tip of the sword, increasing its impact.--Rouge Rosado Oui? 11:01, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

apparently not. note that this is a concept of Final Fantasy or other fantasy RPGs and should at best figure in Category:Fictional swords. dab () 11:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't sound a very practical idea. Why not just increase the mass of the tip as required? Or perhaps it could double as a thermometer? ("What? Still 98.6?")--Shantavira 11:26, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This concept has already been put into practice in the real world. Hollow aluminium baseball bat, part filled with water. Replace the water with mercury and you'd have one *fearsome* club... --Kurt Shaped Box 11:48, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
We don't have an article yet, but a few of our Warhammer 40K articles briefly cover the subject. Since the concept is quite popular, we should have an article on it, but I don't think "mercurial sword" would be the best name for it. ☢ Ҡiff 11:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I presume having a heavier tip would make it harder to handle, whereas this way the extra mass is in the handle, where it is more manageable, due to the way moments work, and then the extra mass is only transferred to the tip during the swing. --62.6.139.11 14:35, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

as a regular sword/weaponwielder/master I have to say: Actually a sword with a heavier tip is not harder to handle pur sang. It is only what you are accustomed to. "Mercurial swords" are frankly near impossible to handle though since it's balance keeps on shifting and therefore the basic swinging techniques take much strength and force whereas normally you only guide the sword and even then mainly with your thoughts. therefore I think that the only "Mercurial" weapon there could be possible is a Mace or a morning star or flail(though this one ould most likely be quite useless). And for those weapons adding Mercurial tips on the spikes would be less useless as using poison and acid tips hardened in firewith double chambers that open on impact and then close again. perhaps on swordspear It might be of some use as an added forceswing but then half of it's effectiveness of speed would just fall because you need time to adjust for every new balance (by Graendal on public comp)82.92.184.210 07:09, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Was Che Guevara a licensed medical doctor?

The WIKI biography does not say definitively whether or not Che Guevara ever graduated and had a degree. Was he a licensed medical doctor. This is a big bone of contention depending on where some people stand, politically. Most Cubans hate Guevera the way they hate Castro and scoff at the notion that he was ever a real doctor. This is because Guevera was a guerilla fighter in the jungle and killed many people. I say, ok, yes that's true, but wasn't he also a medical doctor? I emailed the University of Buenos Aires and got no reponse. This is something I have already researched quite a bit and still have no difinitive answer...can someone help?

Here's what the WIKI page says:

Some critics also believe that Che failed medical school in Argentina and that there is no evidence he actually ever earned a medical degree. [3] ,[4], [5], [6], [7],[8],

A glance at the current Che Guevara talk page shows that this is a topic of discussion. There are seven more talk pages in the archives linked from that page. Perhaps you will find more discussion, debate, and reasoning for the current wording.(I didn't check.)---Sluzzelin 17:48, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see the relevance of Cuban's hate of Guevara, but since you bring it up yourself. Even those who hate Castro generally love El Che. The reason being that they love the fact that they got rid of Batista, but not necessarily what they did afterwards. Che was dead before he could do anything to tarnish his name. (Which is of course not to say that he would have - that's something we can never know.) DirkvdM 11:29, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What kind of people thank that just because they disagree with someone's politics that person couldn't have earned a medical degree? Are these same people big fans of Josef Mengele, whose medical degree is well-documented? DJ Clayworth 16:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Finding a Poem

Could anybody help me find a poem I read a long time ago with the word \'Oriel\' in it? That\'s all I have to go by, sadly.

Here's one: Nuremberg by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow.
"On the square the oriel window, where in old heroic days
Sat the poet Melchior singing Kaiser Maximilian's praise." ---Sluzzelin 14:48, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That's not very much to go on. Try Googling poetry sites for "oriel" along with the names of Romantic poets such as Scott (eg. The moon on the east oriel shone), Tennyson (eg. Thro’ the topmost Oriels’ colour’d flame), Longfellow (Lo! in the painted Oriel of the West) etc.--Shantavira 14:58, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

....try http://www.bartleby.com/

Home owners assn. vs Property owners assn.

What are some of the legal differences between HOA (home owners association) and POA (property owners association); specifically the rights and responsibilities of the members and the board?

Assuming the property in question consists of a home or homes, aren't these just synonyms? I'd think there is no generic difference; everything depends on the Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws of each specific association.  --LambiamTalk 17:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I imagine it's very much a state by state thing in the US. California is governed by Civil Code 1350-1378, for example[7]. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 21:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What's English for German de:Notname

Notnamen are invented, conventional names for artists whose real names are unknown. See Master of the furies, Master E. S., Antiphon Painter.

While doing some interwiki linking, I've noticed that there's no equivalent here to de:Kategorie:Notname and de:Liste der Notnamen. I want to start these but wasn't even able to find the correct translation to use.

Pjacobi 17:51, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Provisional name? It's perhaps closer to 'Behelfsname' which is also used for this type of name. ---Sluzzelin 18:21, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion paper uses the descriptive phrase "descriptive phrase which functions as a name". In fact, the term "descriptive name" is in active use for this purpose: see [8] (said to be derived from the Grove Dictionary of Art), and [9].
The term "provisional name" is also being used: [10], [11], [12], [13], [14].
This English-language page on a German museum's website uses "makeshift name" as translation of Notname (here is the corresponding page in German).
On this page you find the term "invented name" (in the last line of the first page, referring to Master of the Embroidered Foliage). Another example of the use of this invented name: [15].
Conclusion. While not exactly common, "provisional name" is the provisional winner.  --LambiamTalk 20:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This question belongs on the Language Desk. StuRat 20:47, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all the references so far. I've put the question here and not at language, as I'm looking for the most common term actually used in art history, which may or may not coincede with the best translation. --Pjacobi 22:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The nearest English equivalent would simply be 'unknown' for painters. I cannot think of any other usage. White Guard 01:19, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unknown was a quite prolific painter. Maybe we should call him "Master of the Unknown".  --LambiamTalk 14:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mallard Fillmore - comic strip

Local paper, Denver Post, has discontinued runnig Mallard Fillmore comic strip. How can I view it daily on the internet??? Thanx. Jim Jensen, Arvada, CO. e-mail address removed

Try this link and click on the archives.---Sluzzelin 20:37, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/mallard/about.htm displays the first week of the previous month, if that is enough of a fix. Washington Post at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artsandliving/comics/?nav=left has lots of other comics daily. Edison 20:38, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If your local newspaper decided that your favorite strip will duck out of the comics, and if you're not chicken, you should cry fowl, raise a flap, and grouse to them (don't just parrot those other turkeys who settle for flipping them the bird). :-) StuRat 13:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

20 points to Stu! I could parrot a load more bird jokes, but then I'd just sound like a tit! Laïka 23:02, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Henry Walpole

I am doing some family history and found out that i am related to Henry Walpole, in the document entitled "Henry Walpole" it quotes "He was born at Docking, Norfolk, in 1558, the eldest son of Christopher Walpole" and in the document above Christopher Walpole has been taken out of your wikipedia please can you update this document so I can research Christopher Walpole and also if you can help me in anyway in finding the rest of he sons/daughters I would be grateful. Thank you

Helen85 21:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A Google search doesn't turn up any mentions of your ancestor Christopher Walpole, apart from passing mentions related to Henry Walpole. He is apparently not a famous person, even if he is somehow related Prime Minister Robert Walpole and Horatio Walpole, 1st Baron Walpole of Wolterton, along with the above-mentioned Henry. Church records (such as those that might be found on the grounds of this church) in the Docking, Norfolk area are possible the best bet to finding out more; genealogy websites might also be useful. Picaroon9288 22:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The DNB article on Henry says that Christopher (d. 1596) had a brother John, of Herpley, a sergeant-at-law. CW lived at Docking Hall from about 1558 and later owned an estate at Anmer and Dersingham, adjoining relatives' estates at Houghton (cousin) and Herpley/Harpley (nephew). Henry had a brother also called Christopher - see here. There may be more info in a 19th century book by Augustus Jessopp: One generation of a Norfolk house: a contribution to Elizabethan History about the Walpole family. By the way, I don't think there was ever a Wikipedia article on CW which was deleted. (Red links are sometimes there to suggest a possible future article.) --HJMG 22:34, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Christopher Walpole was lmost certainly not 'taken out of Wikipedia' - he was never there, but the person who linked to him in Henry Walpole thought he ought to be. His article will get created when somebody thinks it worth writing, and is prepared to do whatever research that requires. If you find out anything about him, Helen85, maybe you'd like to write it! ColinFine 21:32, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

September 30

Song Name

I have been searching for a song, but I can not remember the name of the song or the artist. Its been roughly 8 years since I last heard it, the only thing I remember for sure is a line that went something like "cast your eyes on the ocean, cast your soul to the sea" then a line here which I sadly do not remember, then "please remember me". For some reason everytime I think of this song the words "Dante's Peak" come to mind, although I have no idea if that has to do with song. Anyone out there know anything about this? TomStar81 (Talk) 07:19, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dante's Prayer by Loreena McKennitt ---Sluzzelin 13:24, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for helping me find the song. Its still as beautiful as I remeber it to be. TomStar81 (Talk) 01:41, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Indian art

could i have some information on some of the indian schools of arts?

Try learn4good. Good luck! ---Sluzzelin 16:10, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Companies!

Hi,

Can you find me a hierarchy of companies displayed like a family tree (if possible). What i meen is i want to know which companies own eachother. eg somethin like unilever will be at the top and that owns lots of companies and then the companies that are owned by those companies ect.

thanks, --William dady 09:29, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Try here or here. You will probably have to create your own tree structure, as (a) these become unweildy very quickly (b) company ownerships etc don't always work in the same way as a family tree. --Shantavira 14:03, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Navy Stereotype

There is, in the UK at least, a pervading stereotype that people, in effect men, who serve in the Navy are either effeminate or gay. I can imagine that this arose from both the natural consequences of a large group of men being in close proximity for long periods of time without women, or from some idea that sailors need not do any hard physical work as their counterparts in the Army had to. However, I was wondering if there was some other root cause or source for this idea. Any opinions, comments or even answers would be very helpful. Thank you. —Daniel (‽) 16:36, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Well, there's the falsely attributed to Churchill line, "the only traditions of the Royal Navy are rum, sodomy, and the lash." The idea that sailors didn't do hard physical work is rather peculiar -- from what I've read, sailors were worked hard, often at pointless tasks that existed solely to keep them busy (like holystoning the decks.) But yeah, it's probably just the idea of all these men cooped up together for months at a time. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 18:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There are self-fulfilling stereotypes as well. You get six gay guys with a big hit like "In the Navy" and people start saying that gays all join the Navy. So, if you are gay, you think that maybe the Navy is a good place to be. Enough gay guys get the same idea and the Navy becomes a place where gay guys can go and answer the question, "Where can you find pleasure?" - or worse, "Oh my goodness, what am I going to do in a submarine?" --Kainaw (talk) 23:02, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the U.S. where I served in the Navy one sometimes encounters the same stereotype in the civilian world. Of course that part of the civilian world hasn't quite gotten a clue that women serve on ships now. Within the Navy homophobia is pretty strong. I found that the quickest way to stop two guys from horseplay in the workspace is to walk by smiling and say, "Don't ask, don't tell." Immediately they'd stop wrestling and move to opposite ends of the room no matter how obviously everyone knew they were both really straight. Durova 04:34, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hehe. That's right. However, I have never heard that stereotype. If you ask me, as a citizen of the US, being in the military is one of the manliest jobs you can do, and being gay is not very manly at all. I think this is the same the world over. — X [Mac Davis] (SUPERDESK|Help me improve)08:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It hasn't always everywhere been like that: See Sacred Band of Thebes.  --LambiamTalk 11:30, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
... or Shudo ---Sluzzelin 12:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't help that they use a "beautiful clean" white uniform in most Navies who is simply completly useless in times of war (as soo much stuff in the military). In the words of Col Jessup in a A Few Good Men: "a faggotty white uniform". Flamarande 13:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the answers, all. —Daniel (‽) 19:55, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A retired Royal Navy guy who was a tour guide on the HMS Belfast in London made very disparaging remarks about musicians of the Marine Band which once served on the ship having "very soft hands." My thought was the "Laddy doth protest too much." A book on the 20th century Royal Navy mentioned the custom of old salts taking new crew members down to the lower levels to "inspect the brass rivet."Edison 20:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the States at least, the uniforms most Navy personnel actually wear to do their jobs would barely be recognizable to a civilian. White uniforms would only be daily attire at certain shore commands where people do mostly office work or interact with the public. Durova 01:44, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As I said: "completly useless in times of war". You will notice plenty of stuff everywhere in the military that serves no real military purpose, it is mostly there to look "nice, beautiful, clean, or impresive" (in another word: "faggotty" :). Flamarande 03:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
...and being gay is not very manly at all. What was that about stereotypes? JackofOz 11:30, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Surely being gay is the manliest thing possible - guaranteed to have no women involved whatsoever! --Mnemeson 11:38, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Romeo and Juliet-The Meaning of the Masks

I am looking for information on the masks used in the original play of Romeo and Juliet. Pictures or descriptions of what the masks looked like; what the colors of the masks mean; who attended the capulet ball; whether or not the masks were meant to show emotion. I need to have reference from three websites and one book. Any information would be so helpful....I have been unable to find anything! THank you!!!!

I think you should first read the 5th bullet on the left side of this page. schyler 23:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

By "original play", do you mean "the first public performances of the play"? The play The Most Excellent and Lamentable Tragedy of Romeo and Juliet is traditionally dated as being from 1595. I'm afraid no word has reached us across the gulf of history on how the performances were staged. You can read a bit about the mask tradition in our article Masque.  --LambiamTalk 00:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Puerto Rican Holiday Traditions

I'm doing a research paper for my nursing class. I need to know what are the traditional food's that puerto rican's give up or eat on Religious holiday's and any other holidays.

We don't do homework for you... Read the top of the page. --AstoVidatu 23:41, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cuisine of Puerto Rico#Holiday food? BTW, in your research paper, make sure not to use apostrophes for plurals. —Keenan Pepper 00:24, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

October 1

Ancestor

I was watching Dogma on Comedy Central and Bethany is told that she is the Great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grand neice of Jesus Christ (11 greats and 1 grand). At first I thought nothing of it, but later I was talking to my father on the phone and for some reason or another we got talking about our family tree. He said tht my own great-great-grand father was born in 1856. This is when it hit me that it really doesn't add up that a current day's person's great^11-grand uncle couldn't reasonably be from c.2000 years ago. It would be from more like 1150 based upon my family's average. Could, possibly, Jesus Christ be some modern-day person's great^11-grand neice (going by the movie, not any religious doctrine), or did the writer of the movie just assume that 11 greats souded old enough? schyler 02:11, 1 October 2006 (UTC) (p.s. I checked with my grandfather if his grandfather was born in 1856 and he said I was correct (after looking it up in his books because computer are too "new age and hard to figure out")).schyler 02:15, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Remember that the length of a generation is basically the average reproductive age. For many calculations like this in modern times, a generation is often assumed to be about 25 years, so 4 generations per century, and 40 generations per millennium. Median reproductive age in earlier eras might be slightly less, but not enormously so. It would take roughly 80 generations to go back 2000 years. alteripse 02:26, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So great^79-grand uncle would Jesus to a modern-day person, right? schyler 04:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Something like that. Of course, some men are capable of having children quite late in life, so you could have as few as around 25 generations down the male line. But 11, generations, no way, that would require an average age of around 180 at the birth of each child. StuRat 10:23, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Even Moses only lasted until he was 120.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  15:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"Could, possibly, Jesus Christ be some modern-day person's great^11-grand neice..?" No, unless his gender was other than commonly understood and if we rule out time travel.Edison 20:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm guessing that having a character say 'great' eleven times when describing the relationship was considered funny, and having them say 'great' seventy nine times was considered boring. DJ Clayworth 16:33, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Truman's letters

After President Truman left office, he wrote a large number of letters to various persons- colleagues, friends and enemies; where he wrote how he really felt about them, and so on. These letters ultimately remained unsent. Is there a good collected source of these collected somewhere other than the Truman presidential library? -Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 08:51, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps this collection contains some of the unsent letters: Off the Record: The Private Papers of Harry S. Truman---Sluzzelin 11:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Missing posts

Has anyone else noticed posts going missing on these pages? Like you click on an item in your watch list by UserXXXX, and it aint there? Im posting this msg on all ref desks.--Light current 11:26, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't noticed entire posts going missing, but what I have noticed is that sometimes someone will reply to a question and the text will simplt not show up on the page. You go to the edit page and the text they entered is there in the box, but not on the page and the page needs to be resaved for the answer to be able to be seen. schyler 12:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I hadn't noticed that, but please see Wikipedia talk:Reference desk#Archive dump. No need to post on all desks, just take your question there if you are still missing something.--Shantavira 12:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Coat of Arms of India

I'm quite sure that British-India did not have a coat of Arms, otherwise memorials for the coronation as Emperor of India for George V would depict that coat of arms and not the British one. Is that true? But I can't imagine that the Kingdom of India had no coat of arms. What arms were used for this period?--Hannesde Correct me! 14:30, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The traditional coat of arms is really more of a European tradition. I see you have already found the emblem of India article. That emblem goes back a long way. I'm not aware of any coat of arms for India as such.--Shantavira 14:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

engagement rings

What is the prime season for buying/not buying engagement rings? I heard that the price can realy drop if you know when to buy them. Thanks

You'd best ask a jeweller. One would expect the spring to be a popular time to get engaged, and the autumn/fall to be slightly less popular, but not by much. Most humans are in the mood all year round. The marriage/honeymoon season is far more pronounced. I would be surprised to see a significant change in price, and I would be surprised if speculative seasonal purchasing could be profitable, otherwise all the jewellers would be doing it themselves.--Shantavira 15:01, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
actually I think he ment prices as in gold and crystal / other jewels and usually the gold price is down most during the summer season
My opinions:
Some people, both men and women, are legitimately concerned about the political machinations behind the diamond production process, especially in Africa (blood diamonds). Since the only diamonds many people ever buy or wear are in engagement rings, not buying a ring whose diamond comes from one of those areas could be a legitimate political statement. This can be avoided by buying a diamond from Canada (guaranteed cruelty-free and of excellent quality) or a second-hand ring. Most real gemstones are mined in poorer countries, so you have the same problem with them as well unless you buy second-hand or deliberately choose a gemstone mined in a country with a good human rights record.
Some young men, however, are offended by the existence of engagement rings. They see it as a ripoff, and blame stupid (and obviously vastly inferior) women for being brainwashed by TV ads. They sometimes cloak this in a concern for the 'blood diamond' problem. As I said, that is a legitimate concern, but usually these guys don't really believe in it; they're just using it as an excuse. This is obvious when they won't buy a Canadian-mined cruelty-free diamond or a used ring. It's also obvious when they spend $10,000 a year on car accessories, satellite radio, porn, game cartridges, game systems, computer systems, software, etc., but whine that diamond rings are "unimportant".
In my experience, most women see the engagement ring differently than these men do. They may feel that a man who won't buy them an engagement ring, or who (worst of all - I cannot describe the disgust this idea sends through me) insists on one in glass or crystal, is in reality cheap and self-centered, especially if he has money for computers, game systems, etc. They assume he's saying she has no value to him, that his porn collection or his game system are more important to him than she is. It's a huge slap in the face and a huge blow to the ego.
The idea that it has to cost two months' wages is an advertising ploy. If you can't afford a new ring, buy a used one. --Charlene.fic 21:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And only after posting that do I realize that you wrote "season", not "reason". I have to learn to read better! Sorry! The best time to buy one, new or used, is in the summer. People break up in the summer more so there are more used diamonds on the market, and wedding season is over so retailers are getting rid of their old stock.
Sorry again!!! --Charlene.fic 21:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting help for article on Jean-Marie Le Pen : did he speak to(and support) Russian extremists, who went to fight in Iraq in 2003?

Hello, [16] This is a question of mine on the talk page of Jean-Marie Le Pen. I still don't have an answer.

I am quite certain that in 2003 (or late 2002) I saw images of Le Pen in Russia. He attended a conference of Russian (far-right) extremists who wanted to go to Iraq to help them fight the USA (and its allies). He obviously supported their cause. I have never put this in the article itself because I still don't have a source. Can anyone help me out? Thanks!

Evilbu 14:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Le Pen is a friend of Russian nationalist Sergey Baburin (and also of Vladimir Zhirinovsky). He seems to have visited Baburin in February 2003, but, according to this antifascist website, Le Pen specifically asked that no pictures be taken. I didn't find anything mentioning his support of troops fighting against Iraq's invaders. Le Pen and Baburin criticized the USA and its allies, but then so did Putin and Chirac. For further research, keep in mind that Baburin is spelled Babourine in French. ---Sluzzelin 09:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unknown Audio

What is this from?

media:tempsong0001.ogg

Thanks. schyler 15:24, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's "from" anything. It is a brief self-contained piece that is a musical form of an exclamation mark, much like the British English "hear hear".  --LambiamTalk 16:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Shave and a haircut.  sʟυмɢυм • т  c  18:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New brunswick culture

How was the life style in Nwe Brunwick during the confederation

It was nice. Loomis 18:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I revel in such magnificent conciseness, Loomis, and I look forward to lots, lots, lots more of it. There's hope for you yet.  :) JackofOz 08:47, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Most New Brunswickers lived on farms or in small towns. Many more people lived from farming and lumbering than now. The St. John River was an important transportation route. People generally lived less comfortable lives because they did not have modern appliances or cars. People heated using wood stoves that had to be tended daily. Most of that wood had to be chopped by hand. People lived mainly on locally grown foods. During the winter, they lived on food that could be stored for months, such oats (for porridge), dried beans, and potatoes, turnips, and other root crops that could be stored in a cellar. A good way to learn more would be to visit King's Landing [17] Marco polo 14:32, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cholera

In 1850s Britain, which cures of cholera were there which worked? Computerjoe's talk 16:09, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Death or recovery. That's about it. White Guard 23:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

English in Europe

How many countries in the EU speak English fluently besides the UK & Ireland.

How many countries still depict signs of racism against the asians ?

This'd be better off at WP:RD/L. Computerjoe's talk 18:22, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why it be better off? This is an age of freedom & democracy. Recently there was a story that made big news in Russia of an indian medical student being murdered.

What is the cause for such nonsensical acts of intolerance being propogated?

I don't know of any countries in the EU that can speak English fluently. In fact I don't know of any countries in the world that can speak English fluently. Come to think of it, I don't know of any countries in the world that can speak any language, to any degree. Now if you want to ask about the people who live in those countries... Loomis 18:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a topic to this thread? Or did the original poster forget to sign his post, thus giving others the oportunity to seem to speak in his name? I'll ignore the weird second question and remark that the ability to speak English well (though not quite necessarily fluently) depends to a large degree on having movies (most of which are in English) on tv in the original language (with subtitles). This is the case in the Netherlands and Belgium and I believe also in Denmark. DirkvdM 19:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Dirk, why is that our northern and our southern neighbours don't understand our country.... In Flanders they use subtitles for everything except the Teletubbies, in Wallonia they dub movies, interviews... The consequences are obvious.Evilbu 20:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Wasn't it you, Dirk, who was lecturing the rest of us about feeding trolls/terrorists? :) The first two completely unrelated questions were clearly the work of the same troll, as was that total non-sequitur of a rejoinder concerning "freedom and democracy". (Huh? What's "freedom and democracy" got to do with Wikipedia's rules? By that same logic, one would be unable to play, say, chess in a "free and democratic" country, as the rules of chess clearly restrict the players' "freedom" to move their pieces wherever they wish). That's why I answered the obviously trollish "question" with a suitably matching disrespectful response.
But as I said last time, even trolls can provide interesting topics to discuss. I agree with what you've said Dirk, but I think you've left something out. It's true that the Dutch and the Danish tend to be quite fluent in English. I just think that the answer has more to do with the raw number of native speakers of a given language. As Evilbu has taught me, there are only a bit over 20 million Dutch speakers in the world, compared to, say, almost 150-200 million French speakers. You mentioned the Belgians, I've never actually done any direct research into it, but I'd bet that the Dutch speaking Flemings are far more fluent in English than the French speaking Walloons. Whereas French-speakers seem to have the "critical mass" to manage to live their entire lives in the western world entirely in French without necessarily ever having to learn English, (though of course it helps,) it would just seem to be impossible to do so in Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Norweigian, or even Hebrew for that matter. In such countries, namely the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Norway or Israel, having a working knowledge of English would seem to be a requirement to get by in the work environment, as well as to be able to sufficiently educate oneself in whatever areas one pleases. Wikipedia is a perfect example. I'm sure the Dutch version is extremely limited. In fact, I've looked around in the French version (the only other language I can speak and understand reasonably well), and even the French version just plain sucks. I could just imagine how bad the Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Norweigian or Hebrew versions are. As well, you've mentioned before a few things you've read up on, Dirk, such as Che Guevara's biography, etc. How much should I bet that you've read those works in English, because a Dutch translation just wasn't available? But the reverse is also true, while on the one hand, it's great to be a native English speaker, as you can use English to communicate with more people on the planet than with any other language, on the other hand, it tends to be a handicap when attempting to learn a new language, or even master a second one. (Damn those French! In all the time I spent there, in France, speaking damn good French, (not perfect, but damn good!) the moment they heard the slightest bit of an English accent, they switch to English! How am I supposed to master my French if they keep switching to English!) I got so pissed off in Paris once, at some Burger King I think, that when they switched to English I said quite simply: "Je m'excuse, mais je ne comprend rien en anglais!" ("I'm sorry but I don't understand any English!") I guess the point I'm trying to make here is to all you non-native English speakers who think that English speakers are both arrogant and ignorant for "apparently" not bothering to learn your native language. Trust me! We try! It's just REALLY, REALLY hard to learn a foreign language when everyone keeps switching to English! Loomis 21:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It was Che's diary and I read it in Spanish. DirkvdM 07:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Swedish Wikipedia is indeed much worse than the English (although the German generally seems okay). The number of regularly contributing editors is just too small, I'd guess. 惑乱 分からん 10:40, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Everytime I can explain the complexity of Belgium to someone else, it makes me happy:)(Loomis, I'm still brewing on a sharp polite response to your last writings:)). In my opinion, what you say about critical mass is very likely to be true for both English and French. I think there are many USA-ers who think English is the only real language and therefore don't really bother, and I don't think the switching problem is a major problem in THAT MANY COUNTRIES. Apart from lack of knowledge in countries like Spain, France, there are people who simply refuse to, and those things occur in the highest positions, on the most important occasions:| ! Read all about it here [18]Evilbu 21:55, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You frighten me Evilbu! :) "Brewing on a sharp polite response to your last writings." Why do you always make me feel that I've somehow offended you? :)
Voorgoed, Evilbu, natuurlijk many English speakers, Americans in particular are quite chauvenistic about English (many, at least in the recent past, even insisted that they weren't speaking "English", but rather, they were speaking "American"!) We even joke about it up here, about how some "college" somewhere in the deep south was considering creating a "Department of Foreign Languages". (The joke/story is apparently a true one). The whole idea met with great resistance, with picketers holding signs: "If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for us"!
But let me reassure you Evilbu. As a Canadian Anglophone born and raised in the unilingual French Quebec, (as well as one who prays in Hebrew and whose father's first language is Yiddish), I certainly realize that English most definitely is not the only language in the world. I'm reminded of it every day. Did you know that (unlike in France, or Belgium, or Switzerland, or any other country where French is an official language), in Quebec, the word "Stop" is considered to be too English to be allowed to be posted on a "Stop sign"? The government here must be the only one in the world that is nuts enough to insist that the word "Stop" on "Stop signs" be replaced with the French "Arrêt". So basically, we're probably the only place in the entire world where "Stop signs" are outlawed in favour of "Signaux D'Arrêt". The whole policy is actually too ridiculous to really be taken seriously.
Of course I can't speak for Americans, only for myslef. And as for myself, the "switching" problem is definitely the biggest impediment to mastering foreign languages. I even remember the short while I spent in the Netherlands and Flemming Belgium. Let me tell you, in all seriousness, that it was IMPOSSIBLE to learn any Dutch whatsoever. Not a word. The one word I learned was "natuurlijk", and that was because while in my hotel watching TV, they kept using that word, and the subtitles kept translating it to "naturally". I wish I could have learned more Dutch, but for that I would have had to run into someone who couldn't speak any English! And as you know, in the Netherlands and Flemming Belgium, those people don't exist! France, French Switzerland and Walloon Belgium were only slightly better. At least there were some people there who couldn't speak English, and so at least a couple of times my French actually came in handy. But the whole thing was disappointing. That whole trip to Europe taught me one thing: If you're an English speaker, don't even bother trying to speak the native language, no matter how good you are at it, no matter how sincere you are in willing to improve your ability in it. So long as you aren't COMPLETELY, COMPLETELY fluent in it in every possible way (French in my case), they'll just ignore your attempts and switch to English.
Another couple of anecdotes if I may: Doing my MBA, many of my classmates were Chinese. Not just "East Asian" or "Oriental" but actually Chinese...from China. On many occasions, though, I came upon a couple of my Chinese colleagues to find they were speaking English to each other! Neither of them were fluent in English, so I asked them: "You're both Chinese, right"? "Right" they said. "So why aren't you speaking Chinese to each other"? "Well", one would say, "I speak Mandarin and she speaks Cantonese". "Ok". I said. "But surely one of you, either the Mandarin speaker or the Cantonese speaker is more familiar with the other's native Chinese language than with English!. "Not at all," they each said. The Cantonese speaker said "I can't understand a word of Mandarin", and similarly, the Manadarin speaker said "I can't understand a word of Cantonese". "The only language we both have in common is English!"
Perhaps closer to home for you, we once did a case study on the Nestlé company, based in Switzerland. As I'm sure you know well, (along with the extremely minor language of Romansh,) Switzerland has four official languages, the other three being German, French and Italian. Now Nestlé, being a company with operations in every part of Switzerland, in all linguistic areas, at its head office, was forced to choose a common language to be spoken at corporate board meetings. So what language did they choose? German? French? Italian? Nope. The language chosen to conduct board meetings at Nestlé was the one language that all the board members had at least some familiarity with: English. Loomis 23:23, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As much as anything, it depends on demographics - last time I was in Berlin, the Germans would listen to one line from me and immediately take pity and switch into English. On the other hand, when in the Black Forest, we would often be dealing with people who spoke no English at all, so my lousy German was all we had (sometimes took a while, but we always got there ;-)). One of my enduring memories of that trip is a coachload of American tourists in some small village, in the sweetest cuckoo clock shop, demanding of the elderly lady behind the counter at ever increasing volume, "Does it take batteries? BATTERIES? TAKE BADD-ER-IES?!". (Unfortunately, not being able to remember the word for batteries, I didn't offer to help). If you leave the beaten track, or even just the major cities, go out into the smaller areas, or more rural, more conservative areas where the locals are less likely to have the inclination, desire, or need to learn another language, and you'll be more likely to be in a position where you have to speak the local one, or else can't communicate.
To get back slightly closer to the original question, the best English as a foreign language countries are probably Benelux and Scandinavia. I did get told when planning to go to Iceland that whilst everyone in Reykjavik would speak English, very few people in the eastern fjords would (unfortunately not something I got to check). It's worth noting that in a small country with a language of their own (i.e. everywhere I've just listed plus the Baltic states), they'll often use school/university textbooks printed in English or German because whilst the courses are taught in the local language, the printing costs mean it's not economical to write a textbook in the local language. Therefore, they have to learn another language just to study. --Mnemeson 23:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and something else I just thought of - regarding the concept of a common language for the EU - Alex Stubb argued rather nicely that "Everyone would be content with using English, except for the French. Everyone would be content with using English and French, except the Germans. Everyone would be content using English, French, and German, except the Spanish. And so on 'til Maltese", the EU commission on the other hand argued "Which language should we use? German has the largest number of native speakers in Europe. French is an official language of the largest number of member states (France, Belgium and Luxembourg). English is spoken by the largest number of people, but even there only 48% of EU citizens have even a basic understanding of English". English is a well spoken language, but by all means not by everybody. --Mnemeson 23:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If all have to adapt, then wouldn't it make sense to use a language that is easy for all to learn and has less ambiguities (and thus less chance of misunderstandings)? Like Esperanto? I suppose a problem is that there is too much mobility in especially parliament, meaning that people whoc only spend a few years there still have to learn it. Might still be worthwhile, though, given the adavntages and certainly for the more resident civil servants it would make sense. DirkvdM 07:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ah Esperanto, the language of the future, NOT. Face it: is an artificial language which is simply ignored by the wider public. English is being taught almost everywhere and it is THE secundary language for far too many of us. Unless Mandarin somehow manages to gain popularity (quite unlikely, as the Chinese alphabet(s) is quite complicated compared to the Roman one), English is without a doubt THE language of the future, like it or not (being honest I kind'of like it). Every year more and more ppl learn it everywhere, and even if many of us make horrible mistakes (myself included) most of us manage to speak and to write it to a reasonable degree. It is already the official language in soo many countries to be somehow replaced by Esperanto. Blame upon the 2nd WW, Hollywood movies, US music charts, International trade, Globalization, American cultural imperialism (or similar bullshi*) noone can escape this reality: English is already everywhere, and it is here to stay., and don't waste your time longing for a artificial replacement (which in my honest opinion is never going to go anywhere unless goverments somehow impose it). It simply makes no sense to learn Esperanto as English is spoken to such a wide extent. Spare your resources and don't waste your money in learning a language which is simply not as usefull as English. I suspect that almost everyone who learns Esperanto has allready learnt English. Flamarande 09:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC) We are the Imperial Americans. Learn our language, and surrender your culture. We will build a MacDonalds, and sell Hollywood movies to you, besides giving your youth our music to dance for. :)[reply]
I was talking about government use, not general use. And don't assume English is the language of the future. Lingua francas have come and gone many times. They always come and they always go. Artificial and other simplified languages heve made it big in various parts of the world, so don't assume no one will ever make it big. DirkvdM 18:40, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So goverment employees everywhere should learn Esperanto while the average person is learning English? Dirk, that is indeed a very clever proposal, NOT. And please don't pull the history card, lingua francas come and go, but that notion should never stop us from learning the current one. The impact of English is world-wide and ppl from all classes of society everywhere know it or are learning it (degree and corectness are another mater), this never happened before. The "older" lingua-francas (like latin during the middle ages, or french) were mostly learnt by an alltoo small elite. I must ask you what impact Esperanto had upon the world. Flamarande 13:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not so convinced as some of you that the intentions of the questioner are trollish. He may be genuinely upset by, and unable to interpret, what he observes from a distance (a place like Mumbai, say) as a total lack of propriety or care about moral values in Western culture.  --LambiamTalk 00:14, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To answer the first question from the original poster: English is one of the two official languages of Malta, along with Maltese. English is also widely spoken in Cyprus. Beyond that, Scandinavians have a reputation in the UK as being likely to speak excellent English. Loganberry (Talk) 12:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And the Netherlands - as we used to say "you know when you've arrived in Holland, because the waiters speak better English than the English". -- Arwel (talk) 13:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Outside of the tourism sector, where English is virtually a job requirement, fluency in English in European countries other than the UK and Ireland is something of a class phenomenon. In Germany, people with blue-collar or rural jobs tend not to speak much English. There is no need and little use for it. Even in the Netherlands, I have encountered people who do not speak English working in local pharmacies and groceries outside of tourist districts. Oddly enough, I found the lowest levels of English fluency among ethnically non-Dutch people on the southern outskirts of Amsterdam. These are people whose parents came from Suriname or the Dutch Antilles who are first-generation native speakers of Dutch. Some of these people speak Dutch and Sranan Tongo or Papiamento but not English. Marco polo 14:51, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
well, as a dutch citizen I have to say that over the average taken our english is on a high level. especially compared with countries like France or Germany. and everyone over the age of 12 has basic knowledge about english and can be understood by anyone who speaks english. But even better ; everyone over the age of 18 is SUPPOSED to speak English fluently here. sure we have those people who are natural talents at speaking other (foreign) languages fluently and those who can't no matter how hard they try but as said before over the average we do. And about those groceries and pharmacies. they do speak english but prefer not to since it may or may not be as fluent as that of the others. and it is mainly the generation(s) of the last 2 decades that speak english fluently. Graendal 16:42, 2 October 2006 (UTC) .[reply]
Well, :) even though Dirk was wrong about the subtitles in ALL of Belgium, he was right about the major correspondence, subtitles are used in Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Flanders, Finland,.... and their inhabitants are all more or less fluent in English :).Evilbu 17:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Stop callng dirk and come to the point loomis! There were two independent questions which need to be dealt with independently.

If so, why weren't they asked independently? And please sign your posts (with four tildes; ~~~~) so we can see who is saying what. DirkvdM 18:40, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I think all of those unsigned comments, including the first two questions, are from Kartikv47...........Evilbu 22:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ask a thoughtful, respectful question, and I'll be glad to give you a thoughtful, respectful answer. However, ask a ridiculous unanswerable question, and the best I'll (we'll) do is discuss the issue in general, hoping that WE, can learn from EACH other. "How many countries in the EU speak English fluently besides the UK & Ireland". Now how can that question possibly be answered one way or the other? Each country has a differing level of English fluency among its population. There are no yes or no answers. Only varying degrees. England: Fluent (although visit some neighbourhoods in London and you might wonder about that one!). Elsewhere in the UK and Ireland, fluent, although the various Scottish, Welsh and Irish Celtic languages are encouraged and taught in the schools of those respective countries, along with having bilingual street signs etc...in the hopes of at least holding onto at least some degree (and as a distant hope, perhaps even reviving) their native Celtic languages. The Benelux countries and Scandinavia: Strong tendency towards fluency in English by a large portion of the population. Germany: Less so. France: Even less than Germany etc... (and we haven't even adressed Mnemeson's point about rural vs. urban dwellers). Loomis 07:45, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Going back to "English is the language of the future", I doubt the latin or South Americans like English much, their leaders like Chavez or the Brazilian dictator (can't remember his name right now) absolutely HATE America and our language. They consider English to be an American invention, and that, therefore, makes it odious and imperfect. Even though they will probably learn it, they resent it (their stop signs don't say stop either:)). | AndonicO 12:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
They don't hate America, they are simply envious and cheap politicians always want to gain easy votes. Therefore, they like to blame the USA for the all problems of their country and always bang upon the drum of patriotism. The voting masses like to hear that crap and like to blame "somebody else" for all their woes. Just ignore the coruption and incomptence of their national politicians and poor education. NO, the fault of everything bad happening HAS to be of the USA (current religious and political Dogma of so many fo us). Ok, it isn't as easy as that and the USA is indeed guilty of many things but you can get the drift.
Still, you can notice that English is so powerful that almost everywhere politicians are choosing a side (Yes or No, depending upon the pools and votes) and are unable to ignore it. Spanish is one of the most wide-spread languages on this planet but, as far as I know, it isn't spreading to other countries. If you don't agree please show me another language who is considered the language of international trade and politics. Show me another language who is being taught in soo many countries (as a secondary language). Just look at Wikipedia: the English Wiki has almost as many articles as all the others combined, and I believe the English articles are normally much more improved. This is achieved not by "native-English-speakers", this is mainly achieved by soo many users from "other-than-English-speaking-countries" who have learned English as secondary language in school (myself being an example). It is the same in World of Warcraft. STUFF cheap patriotism, and Anti-USA rethoric, I like English because it is the best language to know if you are interrested in traveling, and communicating with ppl from other countries. Flamarande3:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
A PBS program a few years ago pointed out the origins of English on the continent, and said "Good milk and good cheese is good English and good Fries." Is this true? What other Friesian is similar to English?Edison 15:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are eyeglasses considered a machine?

nt ChowderInopa 18:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To quote the opening sentences of article machine:

A machine is any mechanical or organic device that transmits or modifies energy to perform or assist in the performance of tasks. It normally requires some energy source ("input") and accomplishes some sort of work.

So I would say no. Picaroon9288 18:24, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
On another note, this page is Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities. Your question should've been in Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science. If you want a better answer, you're more likely to find one there. (We're more likely to tell you who was recorded using eyeglasses first - Nero, and other things relating to humanities.) Picaroon9288 18:30, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The definition seems a bit broad. since by it anything is a machine, and nothing is a machine. Matter transmits energy to varying degrees, so any matter solid, liquid or gas is a machine by it. Vacuum transmits energy, as in radio messages from the International Space Station to earth, or solar energy from the sun to the ISS, so vacuum is a machine. Edison 15:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sigmund Freud and Nathaniel Hawthorn

can sigmund freud's theory of repression relate to the short story of Nathaniel Hawthorn's "Young Goodman Brown"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.83.126.94 (talkcontribs) 18:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If your professor has asked the question, the answer of course is "of course", but the how is up to you. alteripse 22:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC) PS, no one but English professors takes Freudian theory seriously these days (see Frederick Crews's book on the topic. alteripse 13:08, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Yes it can. 24.193.106.197 22:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What is the proper pronunciation for...

Moved to the Language reference desk.

Who painted this and what is the piece called?

Knight

I'm looking for the artist and title of this piece. I first saw it in an Honors English Literature text at my high school back in 1995 alongside a story about Sir Gawain. No one I know still has the book and all I have been able to figure is that it may have been painted by a pre-Raphaelite (from an art friend of mine)

I'm looking to have a tapestry made of it by the people at www.purecountry.com, and appreciate all the help you might offer.

Thank you in advance!


Joe

Your friend's right, it is Pre-Raphaelite. It's La Belle Dame Sans Merci by John William Waterhouse - see this link. --Nicknack009 22:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(Edit conflict!) I won't repeat the info! Here's a bit more: painted in 1893. Currently in Hessisches Landesmusuem, Friedensplatz 1, Darmstadt, Germany.[19] Based on the poem of the same name by John Keats. Tyrenius 22:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
PS Waterhouse was not a member of the original Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood (he was not born till 1849, the year after it was founded) but was a follower in style and content of the original PRBs. Tyrenius 23:00, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

October 2

Religion

hii... Does any one know the nature and significant of public worship in a Synagogue for individuals and for groups

Yes, Jews do. Try clicking on synagogue.--Shantavira 08:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably "significance". As with many questions pertaining to Judaism, the answer should begin "It depends..." Check this out:

(And I'm just warming up) --Dweller 16:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The emphasis of this question is rather difficult to decipher as it can pertain to so many different aspects of Jewish worship. But I'll take a shot in the dark here and assume that the questioner is asking specifically about the role of the synagogue and praying in groups vs. individual private worship.
First off, the actual physical structure known as a "synagogue" is rather insignificant, except for two things that come to mind regarding what is contained within it. First, most synagogues have an "ark" where the Torah scrolls are kept, and are extremely important for certain rituals (most importantly, for reading from them); and second, many rituals and prayers require a minyan, that is, a "quorum" of ten adult (over 13 years old) males (at least according to Orthodox Judaism they must be male, as I'm quite certain that certain other traditions, such as Reform Judaism allow for females to count as part of the "minyan". Other prayers and rituals do not require a "minyan" and can be done in private. But as I said, the actual physical structure known as a "synagogue" is rather irrelevant. So long as there is an ark and a minyan is present, for what it matters, the services can just as well be performed in an open field. But then again, I'm not sure of the emphasis of the question, so I'm not really sure if this is the aspect the questioner was getting at. Loomis 18:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Loomis covers the "significance" angle pretty well. "Nature" is a big question and is again very variable. There's everything from the solemnity of Yom Kippur through the sadness of Tisha B'Av to the madness of Simchat Torah. Re the latter, read Samuel Pepys diary. Of all the days in the year for him to choose to visit a synagogue (Bevis Marks?) he chose Simchat Torah, with predictable results. --Dweller 19:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

neuro-esthetics

Hi,

My name is Erik Dormaels and I'm preparing a dissertation on the subject of neuro-esthetics. I would like to contact Oliver Elbs who seems to have done the job already. Can someone help me? Oliver Elbs is mentioned in the bibliography of the Wikipedia article about Neuro-esthetics: Elbs, Oliver (2005): Neuro-Esthetics. Mapological foundations and applications. Munich. (Dissertation).

Thanks in advance,

Erik Dormaels (e-mail address removed)

You can find Oliver Elbs's e-mail address on this website (scroll down a bit).---Sluzzelin 09:34, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Place name in Nepal

In a partly illegible text, there's a mention of a place name at the source of the Kali Gandaki River. It appears to be something like "Naipul" or "Neipol" (? – only the "N" and "L" are clear). Nothing similar appears on the List of cities in Nepal or the Category:Cities and towns in Nepal, or in the Geography section of the Nepal page, and I've found nothing relevant in any Google search. It's possibly a geographic (place) name rather than an inhabited settlement, so I don't know where/how else to search further -- I'd appreciate your help! -- Thanks, Deborahjay 12:49, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The only semi-fitting place name I found near the source was 'Nyi La', which is a mountain pass (altitude: 3950m or 12,959ft) above the valley a bit downstream from the source. I also found 'Namghyat', further north, but it lacks an 'L'. Here's a google image search of 'Mustang' and 'map'. Maybe you, or someone else, can locate it. (My computer takes forever to load some of the maps).--- Sluzzelin

More about the place: it's (initially, at least) accessible by bus and serves as the starting point for [amateur] rafting trips down the Kali Gandaki. If a climb to a mountain pass would be involved, as web descriptions of treks including Nyi La show, that's not quite consistent with the description in the text I'm reading -- so I'm not sure it's the same place. -- Deborahjay 14:47, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nilgiri ? Actually a mountain which seems to be the source of one branch of the river. MeltBanana 14:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

... and here it is: Nayapul! :-D Deborahjay 17:53, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Short form for engineers

What is the internationally accepted abbreviation for engineers? Is that Ing.(as in european countries) or Er.(as in India and neighbouring countries).Is there an internationally accepted logo for engineers or civil engineers?

That was asked before, about a month ago, and I believe the answer was that there is no international standard. Every country has its own abbreviations. It also depends on which level of engineer. In the Netherlands, a university engineer is 'ir' and a HTS enigneer is 'ing'. DirkvdM 18:46, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In any case, 'engineer' is still not an occupation which garners much honour in England, so the word simply does not occur as a title. I don't know how far the same is true in other English-speaking areas. ColinFine 23:25, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In Australia, I think it's a listing of their qualification after their name, so someone with a Bachelor of Engineering Degree would be "John Smith, B.Eng." --Canley 02:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the US one might see "John Smith, BSEE, PE" indicating Smith has a Bachelors in electrical engineering and is a Professional Engineer, having attained experience and recommendations and having passed special exams. Without it , he can't be a consulting engineer or sign plans.Edison 04:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, B.Eng exists in England too. I thought toriginal poster was asking about titles, but I can see they might have meant in degree abbreviations as well. --ColinFine 08:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the U.S, putting Ing. or Er. after your name would not tell people you were an engineer, unless they were from India or Europe.Edison 15:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Replacing your victim

I'm trying to remember or find a story I once read. The details are a little hazy, so I can't easily search for it. In the story, a story is being told to someone else about a man who kills someone's son. That person (the killer) then has to replace the victim, go and live with the family, become their son in all respects.

Any idea where I pulled this from in my memory? TrekBarnes 19:50, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Although I'm not positive, the short bit of plot you supplied sounds strangely familiar to The Talented Mr Ripley by Patricia Highsmith. Could that possibly be it? --Hunter85014 02:51, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In what key did Victoria originally write his "O Magnum Mysterium"?

Thomas Luis de Victoria's motet "O Magnum Mysterium" is in the Dorian mode. It appears to be transposed in the versions I have seen, which are mostly in B flat, with a key signature of four flats. What key was it originally performed in?

What voices originally performed this piece? (As, men and boys, for example.) Were the voices in the same vertical position, or have any of the voices subsequently been placed in a different octave. Thank you very muchy. BillWhite 20:06, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to [20], a choral music wiki, it is SATB. Looking at the time it was written (late 16th, early 17th century?), I thought sacred music of the time would be sung entirely male voice, but I wouldn't be sure of that. Skittle 21:29, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gambling in the US

Why is gambling illeagel in so many US states, and now online gambling aswell, even when based outside the US (does your government have that kind of authority!?). I mean surely something as popular as gambling that causes no harm to the stability of society by comparison to many things that you are allowed to do, by making it illeagel, surely all the US gov't is doing is not hindering gambling (as people who want to do it, will find a way) but just criminalising all gamblers, and meaning that all of the money goes into crime, i.e. gambling surely could be used as a gang front, much as alcohol was during your prohibition thingy, so basically, I'm not trying to satart an argument of be inflammatory, or deragatory to americans, I just dont understand the motives for it, and was hopen someone could enlighten me. Philc TECI 20:51, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking form the UK, we've recently had a lot of discussion on this with the licencing of big casinos and loosening of some laws on gambling. Previously, we have had relatively low rates of problem gamblers and some people fear that making it easier to gamble, and to gamble large amounts, will change this. For example, I think there was a law that in order to go into a casino and gamble, you had to be a member. In order to become a member there was a 24 hour 'cooling off' period. The theory was that if people could just wander off the street and gamble as much as they wanted, on a whim, this would encourage problem gambling.
Incidentally, do we have an article on the US laws on gambling and the recent situation with certain British and Irish citizens unwilling to set foot in the US in case they're arrested for running online casinos? Skittle 21:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Gambling in the United States but no mention of online gaming. Rmhermen 21:29, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I found some stuff in Online_gambling. Still doesn't make a lot of sense to me (the arrests), but it's there. Skittle 21:58, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I heard it pointed out (on BBC radio) today that the new ruling by Congress would hit online casinos (many of which are British companies, though they do a lot of business in the US) but that other kinds of online gambling such as on horse racing - which is coincidentally run mainly by US companies - would not be affected. ColinFine 23:30, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The position of most state governments in the US is that gambling is highly immoral and should be totally banned, unless they get a cut, in which case it should not only be allowed, but actively promoted by the government, with taxpayer dollars. StuRat 00:47, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As far as the authority of the U.S. gov't mentioned in the OP's first couple sentences... From what I understand, the law they wanted to pass would make it illegal for credit card companies to process transactions for U.S. citizens if the charges were going to the online casinos. In that sense, yes, the gov't does have the authority to step in since they are making laws for U.S. credit card companies and not making laws dealing directly with the casinos. Dismas|(talk) 01:46, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Gambling is a bit like cigarettes. Governments know they're harmful, and dutifully insist on health warnings on packets, but still reap colossal revenue by way of excise. JackofOz 04:17, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with that, the only difference being, (and I can only speak for Canada here,) that while the government pretty much forbids every type of advertisement for cigarettes, and insists that cigarette companies include huge gory pictures of cancerous lungs and messages such as "Cigarettes Can Kill You"; for gambling, they actually promote government lotteries and government owned casinos with catchy advertisement campaigns on TV, albeit with a small qoute at the end "if you have a gambling problem, please call [the following toll free help-line]". That's where they're being hypocrites. If they truly wanted to provide an outlet for those hard core gamblers who would just go underground and gamble illegally anyway with a legal means of gambling, why spend money on ads encouraging it? I don't know if this is the case in other countries. Loomis 07:23, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
On the other hand, the stupidity tax (lottery) is unique, a way for governments to tax the feeble-minded and have them be happy about it. There aren't many chances like that. StuRat 11:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Gambling is highly immoral and stupid, but so are lots of things, like most adrenaline sports, smoking, gun cultures, car cultures and fast food cultures, america features all of those things, some head and shoulders above the rest of the world, so why do they pick on the gamblers, every week in the UK we hear about another american breaking into a school/shop/office, taking a load of hostages and shooting some of them. So I just dont understand why they see gambling as more of a problem, than so many of the things that they allow. Philc TECI 17:52, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Philc, the answer to your question is that governments do not act rationally, least of all the government of the United States. Also, U.S. politics, especially internal politics, is rife with hypocritical moralism, particularly regarding anything considered a "sin," such as gambling. Marco polo 20:09, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mit Hitler in Polen

I work in a library, and a patron brought me a copy of the book, "Mit Hitler in Polen" by Heinrich Hoffmann and wanted to know how much it was worth. It appears to be autographed by Himmler - I couldn't tell if it was a genuine autograph, of course. I checked Google, but didn't find much. Does anyone out there know about this book, and is there a chance that the autograph is genuine? --Shuttlebug 21:13, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A quick search shows me that the book itself is probably worth about $20 (value may vary depending on condition). I don't know how you would authenticate the signature, but one site I found listed an asking price of $2999.[21] Durova 22:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I guess what I really need to know is, is it even possible that Himmler would have signed this book, since he didn't write it? I didn't have time to look at the book for very long, but the signature seemed similar to ones shown on the internet.--Shuttlebug 01:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did some further research on Google, and the only copies I could find for $20 were DVD reproductions. There were only a few copies of the original book, and those were $150 (and already sold). And those had no autograph. Does anyone know how to get an autograph authenticated?--Shuttlebug 05:03, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Google gave plenty of returns for "autograph authentication." Durova 15:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

i need help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i need images of different ethnic groups (drawings preferably) for my 5 year old son's kindergarden homework and im completely lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Google Images, enter for example [drawing chinese] in the search box, and a few result pages down you'll find this image. Repeat for other ethnic groups.  --LambiamTalk 00:11, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm, that ethnic group looks Central European to me, possibly gypsy or something... =S 惑乱 分からん 11:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

your five year old needs to do an ethnographic project (is he in some sort of kindergarden for the super-gifted) and you are doing it for him, and are now asking us to do it for you?? dab () 15:10, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Politics and Science

are politics more important than science in decision making

I may just be pessemistic, but this sounds like a homework question. Look it up in your textbook. Яussiaп F 23:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you mean "Are US national policy decisions made based on political considerations rather than scientific reasons ?", then yes, they are. Decisions on stem cell research funding, RU-486, marijuana legalization, the Iraq War, global warming & environmental policy, NASA funding, national energy policy, etc., are made based on political, rather than scientific, considerations. Those political reasons are, in turn, influenced by the Christian Fundamentalists, and, in the case of national energy policy, the US petroleum industry. StuRat 00:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you mean in a democracy, then yes. To get votes you need to do what the people think is right. Alas that is a judgement that is rarely based on actual knowledge. Take climate change for example. The scientific community pretty much agrees that we're heading for disaster, or at least that there is a good chance we are. There is more certainty here than politicians usually have to base their major long-term decisions on. However, if the scierntists don't manage to convince the voters of this, politicians will do nothing about it. Well, some would, but they don't get the required votes. This is the major pitfall of democracy. That said, is there a decent alternative? I have thought of giving people different voting rights, depending on their fields of expertise. Still thinking on that, though. And if that would mean that most people would have to relinquish much of their voting powers to others (people with a higher education), wuold they be willing to do so (ie vote for a party that proposese that)? DirkvdM 05:49, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I support the idea of direct democracy to solve this issue. Presumably, most voters would only vote on items in fields which interest them. For example, teachers and parents would be more likely to vote on issues related to the education curriculum. You could either rely on apathy to keep voters away from issues in which they have no interest, or limit the number of votes each voter may participate in, say to 10% of the total votes, with them making the choice. This might be better to keep extremists, like Christian fundamentalists, from having a disproportional influence on society, as they do in the US currently. StuRat 11:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And in a dictatorship, it's whatever the dictator thinks is right. B00P 08:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
See also public choice theory, rational choice theory, and social choice theory.---Sluzzelin 08:45, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

October 3

Symbols on a WWI French artillery shell decorated as "trench art"

Hello and thanks for reading this. I hope you can help as I have been working on this deciphering project for a good while. On this heavily embossed and hammered 75 mm shell there is a sheild-like shape that has three sets of two horizonal bars (pipes) that are stacked in a measured way on top of each other...Like this:

                   ll
                   ll
                   ll

This shell is dated 1918 and has been authenticated as being a piece of trench art made by French and American soldiers to send home or bring back as souveniers. I have deciphered many of the symbols that appear on several shells from the same period that seem to come from the Lorraine region of Eastern France. I have not been able to find any material that explains these marks. Can you help? Willow Pittman

Could they be trenches ? Trench warfare was widespread in WW1. StuRat 10:52, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Voting ages

Is there any country that does not have a voting age?

You mean a country that lets 5-year olds vote in national elections? I seriously doubt it. (Not that there's anything wrong with 5-year olds, I hasten to add before someone attacks me for being a child hater). JackofOz 04:11, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
According to WP's article on voting age, Iran has the lowest voting age of any country (15 years). Burkina Faso's entry is marked 'universal' without referring to any age. The Vatican seems to have an upper limit at 80 years (cardinals only). There are organizations pushing for lowering the voting age to include children, but to no avail sofar. ---Sluzzelin 08:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I hope it happens. Governments decide about kids too, so I don't see why they shouldn't have a say. Choose a children's representative in the government at the very least. - Mgm|(talk) 08:45, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I favor lowering the voting age to 12 in the US. My justification:
  • The Senate has the right to declare war.
  • Senators are elected for 6 years.
  • At 18, people are eligible to be drafted.
  • People have a right to vote for anyone who could vote for a war in which they could be drafted and killed.
While voting just by 12 year olds would be frightening (I picture some teen idol winning elections), including teens in the mix should be OK. The effect on teens, by making them feel valued in society rather than disenfranchised, could have many benefits. StuRat 10:48, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Technically any country that doesn't allow voting at all doesn't have a voting age. DJ Clayworth 16:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the former concept subsumes the latter. If I lived in an election-free dictatorship and said "We don't have a voting age in my country", that would suggest it's an exceptionally democratic country - when the truth is the opposite. JackofOz 20:13, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
When people are only 12, they sometimes think explosions are cool, don't know the history of their own country let alone others and believe that inventing hospitals that don't use injections is a top priority. Oh wait, lots of adults are like that too.:)Evilbu 19:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Journeyman painters

Hi - Can anyone tell me the names of the various roles of the staff that would have worked alongside Michaelangelo during the painting of the Sistine Chapel? Sorry for the long sentence. Thanks Adambrowne666 03:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have much to offer, but I'll post it anyway: This link only has unspecific mentionings of 'quarrymen, carpenters, and (ornamental) stonecarvers'. Another biography link features English translations of the colorful nicknames of Michelangelo's assistants (e.g. The Little Liar, The Goose, The Anti-Christ). ---Sluzzelin 13:11, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Better info might be found in Ross King's book Michelangelo and the Pope's Ceiling. ---Sluzzelin 13:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

book title

i read a book a number of years ago and now i cannot remember the name or the author so i am hoping somebody can help. the plot basically consists of a handful of children waking up to nobody else existing in the world. cars still work and buildings still stand but there are no people there. they find each other and eventually start to unravel what is happening. at one part they see men in space suits watching them. they break the visor of a helmet of one of the men and they sufficate. it turns out that these kids posses a certain gift that allows whatever they believe to be reality actually be real. they are on a different planet i believe and are being used in an expirament. when they realize this they start to see the truth and it becomes hard to breathe. however a boy and a girl make themselves believe that they are still on earth so they can stay behind and live together. the only specific point i remember is that when they make-beleive this world they forget to believe clothing at the end and are standing there naked. if anybody can help me remember the name of this book i would be very greatful.

define " non-theist "

most everybody would like to give a quick answer of " atheist " ; but, i know this is not true . my favorite author, erich fromm described himself as a non-theist but he focused on the experience of god, rather than, the conceptualization of him. in other words, fromm was a mystic, of sorts . thankyou, linguists of the world ! laura martin—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.131.87.178 (talkcontribs) .

See Non-theism.nids(♂) 09:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The definition of "Strike Suit"

Dear everybody,

Does anyone know what is called "strike suit" ? It seems to be a type of derivative suit. If someone can give an accurate definition and some cases, it will be great. Many thanks.

Here is answers.com's definition, borrowed from Barron's Law Dictionary. ---Sluzzelin 13:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You know what would be cool, if someone would create a strike suit article here too. --Kainaw (talk) 13:57, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Marketing

Do you think that all companies need to practice the marketing concept? How can marketing concept apply in public services such as post office services?

Sounds like a homework question to me. All I would say is that, sadly, the notion of public services is slowly being eroded by the operation of the markets. In the UK, the government would love to open up post office services to competition, and will probably do so in the next few years. So, public services are increasingly having to embrace the marketing concept. --Richardrj talk email 14:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Freeza

What is fighting level of Freeza (Dragon Ball Z) in normal situation ad in first, second and third trasformation and on 100%? --Vess 14:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's been quite a while since I've seen the Freeza saga, but I think it's about 1,000,000 in form three. Try reading the article located at Freeza. A Clown in the Dark 15:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, when Furiza went to his second form, he already claimed his power level was over one million. However, I think that they stopped using scanners in DBZ even before that. So we don't know for sure. That's why we will never know how strong Evil Buu really was:).Evilbu 18:36, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
File:240-11.jpg
Evil Buu

Recitative

The question is content-related; it's on the opera talk page ([22]), but I thought someone knowledgeable could turn up here, too. Thanks in advance, --194.145.161.227 15:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moral Standarda

Hi,I will glade if anybody can help me answer this question.(HOW DOES MORAL STANDARDS SOLVE SOCIAL CONFLICTS).

Moral standards ensure that people do their own homework. Have a look at morals, ethics and come back if you have specific questions. DJ Clayworth 16:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

political struggles of the seminole indians?

Im researching a project and can't find anything about modern day political struggles that the seminoles are facing. Can anyone help?

Have you read our seminal article on the Seminoles ? StuRat 17:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Beer Tastes Bad

As a young male, I find myself frequently under pressure from my peers to drink beer. I always argue that beer tastes like crap and that people only drink it to get drunk as cheaply as possible. In all honesty, do most people who drink beer actually like the taste or do they rather become accustomed to the acrid bitter flavour, in the way an insulin-dependant diabetic gets used to the pain of pushing a needle through their skin? In times gone by, would a bitter fruit have not been rejected by hunter/gatherers in preference for something sweet? --Username132 (talk) 17:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I hate the taste of alcohol, and can only stand the bitterness if it's in a low proportion with enough sugar to compensate, like in wine coolers (and I'm someone who can drink straight lemon juice !). There is a lot of difference between beers, however, with some cheap American beers being particularly bad. I suspect different people must taste alcohol differently, as others don't describe it the same way that we do. StuRat 17:29, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
They genuinely enjoy it. If you really want to have a drink but don't like beer, try something else. Whiskey? - Rainwarrior 17:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
See acquired taste, for one. Also, bitter foods in general are less appreciated by younger people than by adults, I think. I disliked beer when I was a kid (which was kind of a pity in retrospect, since I lived in Germany), and developed a taste for it in my early 20s. You might try sampling a good beer -- some are more bitter than others (I think hops is quite certainly an acquired taste.) --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 17:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As an adult, I still cannot stand American beers. I feel they are best labelled as one notch above rat piss. However, when in Norway, Sweden, and Germany, I had much heavier/thicker beers. I do not like the ones that, as far as I can tell, are fermented honey. Far too thick and sweet. But, I found many that I did like. Funny thing is that my favorite one in Norway was Mack-Øl - which the Norwegians considered rat piss. As for other alcohols, has anyone without sever alcohol induced brain damage ever sipped Jack Daniels and said, "Wow! That's smooth!" (read the label on Jack Daniels if you don't get it). But, getting back to the point. If you want to get drunk cheaply, beer is not the way. Get a high proof cheap wine (just see what the local bums are drinking). Thunderbird, Everclear, even a malt-liquer. They are cheaper and will get you drunk much faster. Remember: Beer to hard you're in the yard. Hard to beer you're in the clear. So, slam that thunderbird before you start drinking beer at the party. --Kainaw (talk) 17:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of things you dont like when your young, you like when your older. Beer is not an acquired taste, it just tastes good, obviously not everyone will like it, but people dont drink it to get drunk as cheap as possible (im guessing your possibly american, where over zealous drinking laws mean that kids never learn to drink responsibly, and everytime they get near beer, it has to be a piss up), Im 16 and I can honestly say I love the taste of beer, and lager, among other things, and I find extremely refreshing. Philc TECI 17:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I'm British but I think there are a lot of drinking problems in other parts of the world including France and the Netherlands. I guess I'll just have to put the taste down to a marmite thing. --Username132 (talk) 17:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Take this from a person who hasn't (voluntarily, a despicable idiot "spiked" my coke once) drunk a drip of alcohol since 1998, beer does taste good (like the Belgian beer Maes etc...). I still remember the taste and I am often reminded when I smell other people's beer. I'd drink alcohol free beer if I had a guarantee that it contains 0% alcohol (which is definitely not the case). By the way, if the USA has one law we should have too, it's definitely the no-alcohol-under-21-rule. The story about being able to explore is a myth. And no, I'm not an ex-alcoholic or something.Evilbu 18:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I think it's very complicated. My mum would let me sip her wine if ever I wanted and I thought it tasted bad and thus showed little interest in alcohol until I went to university. On the other hand, in France kids drink with their parents at meal times and the end result is the biggest alcohol problem in the world (I looked it up ages ago but don't have the reference). I think it's sad that society needs to be protected from itself. --Username132 (talk) 18:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Over the last few years I have tired a lot of new things, some I enjoyed some not, I think the exploring thing is true, you should learn to drink responsibly when you can, because in the US kids of 17+ will get hold of beer if they want it, and then they will get a kick out of it, they won't understand it, they'll just want to get desperately drunk, where as I am from the deep west country of England, where at my local I can get served, and probably could have since I was 15 if I wanted to, but there not idiots, there not going to serve till I pass out, and I'm not going to drink till I pass out, I enjoy going down the pub, having maybe a couple of pints, and trying something new, with my mates, its good fun, and we dont get terribly drunk, we can still walk in straight lines, and speak, and know what we are doing, but we have more fun. That is something I have rarely seen in my american counterparts. Philc TECI 18:48, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

political science-international relations+international organizations

i've no. of doubts as don't hav notes of political science.the syllabus goes as- [PART-1]the world community;sovereign states,transnational political parties,& transnational non-official organisation such as churches,multinational corporations,scientific,cultural & other org.EAST-WEST ,SOUTH&NORTH RIVALIRIES.DISARMANENT.

[PART-2]inter govternmental organisations and their constituent instruments.features of the i.l.o. and international financial instituitions.u.n. and its principle organs.

kindly help me out.i'm not getting nething.if possible plz. provide notes of the above mentioned syllabus.i'll b so thankfl 2 u.61.246.242.62 17:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well... --82.227.17.30 20:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ALL PROBLEMS SOLVED!

This must seem like a pretty meen question to ask but what would happen if all diseases, poverty and major natural disasters never happen from this day forwards and all the people on earth will live to they are 70-80 years old on average. What i meen is with a world 300% population increase in the last 100 years, and about half of the total population living below the poverty line who are all suddenly not, would there be any space left in 100, 200, 300 years. How would we control global warming. Will we destroy the earth. etc. Im not saying that we shouldnt stop poverty and related things, but what would happen?

How Much Do You Expect To Be Paid?

I was looking a vacancies on a website and along with CV and letter of motivation, they also ask me to say how much I expect to be paid. Is this part of some phsycological profiling? Why do human resources insist on doing things like this? You can't profile someone who is aware théy're being profiled because it interfers with the results. How much do I say? I heard that if you give a lower number than what they think it's worth, then they pay you that lower wage, whereas if you give too big a number, they tell you to hit the road. It's for TomTom customer service (phone and email). Also, what's with companies and the buzzwords they plaster over their websites? It's so insincere it makes me sick. --Username132 (talk) 18:49, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]