User talk:Huldra

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1948-villages

see: User:Huldra/Sandbox

Also:

• User:Huldra/Sources

• Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Jisr Jindas
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Mamluk Bridge, Yibna
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Mausoleum of Abu Huraira

is it so?

Are you really back? I've missed you way too much. I hope its true. Tiamut^talk 20:09, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I've been with family most of the day for Eid celebrations and am a little pooped (socializing always does that to me). Will be busy a bit tomorrow too, but I will do my level best to get some things up to snuff to celebrate your return! I really missed you very much. I'm so happy that you are back. :)). Tiamut^talk 20:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello!!! Welcome back!!! I hope your PC now works!!! Go ahead and open the template. If you go into your preference you can have the option to red out stubs which are below a certain kb. If you do that I'll restore the template to how it originally was. At present I'm stuck on Biriyya, I wanted to expand it into a DYK but only did as much as a I could. I'll continue to work on Safad as I can access Khalidi's book. Go into your preferences click appearance go down to Advanced options Underline links: Threshold for stub link and you can set them at whatever kb you want. It shows in dark red. Don't know if this will help you... Himalayan 20:35, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Hey my Naqa and Wad ban Naqa articles are on the main page together and are the top DYK! Himalayan 10:48, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Re:Sheikh Bureik

HULDRA! I'm so happy you're back. I knew you couldn't stay away forever, there's too much work that needs to be done. I don't care about the drama, that's all over now.

I requested Sheikh Bureik a long time ago after spotting it on a map of former and existing Arab localities in Israel. I don't remember finding any info on it in the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics however. I assume that it's a small and unrecognized village, probably inhabited by Bedouin. I'll look for some basic info right now, but I won't be starting any articles today or tomorrow because of Eid. I'm glad you have some sources on it though, because I was starting to think it didn't exist at all and the map made a mistake or something.

Sigh (happy one)... Huldra your return has made a great Eid even greater. Thank you so much. I look forward to working with you again very soon. Regards! --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:01, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Sheikh Abreik has a lot in SWP Vol I (multiple places). Zero^talk 11:59, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back to en.wikipedia

Welcome back to en.wikipedia, my dear. I expect you to contribute positively to the encyclopedia, something that you have done for so many years. Have a nice day! :-) AdjustShift (talk) 18:31, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Hey. About the Benvenisti quote in Bayt 'Itab. If you want, you can place it on the talk page and I can transfer things from it into the text. Or you can leave it in place for now and I'll slowly chip away at it until its no longer a quote but is integrated. I just have to figure out how to mix it in. Brain not so good these days for some reason. It was really hard here in your absence. (Have you seen the whorls of drama on my talk page? Its been a quite a couple of weeks.) Anyway, I'll do my best to sort things out there. I think its definitely DYK material. Some villages are easier than others to find information on. I tried to help Himalayan Explorer with a couple he was working on, but there isn't much about them (being Bedouin settlements, travellers tended to ignore them). So glad you are back my dear. Tiamut^talk 15:30, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Have fun my dear. I'll do what I can tonight. Tiamut^talk 16:03, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I've nominated Biriyya for a DYK. Hope this OK, if you want to change the tagline and add anything else let me know. Nice work on Bayt 'Itab I tried to expand it a minute ago but you have written such a comprehensive article on it I couldn't! Himalayan 09:40, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Biriyya

On September 25, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Biriyya, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 04:21, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

And always great fun editing with you. I'm sorry I've been a little lax as of late. I have some visitors from out of town I need to attend to. I'll try to add more to Bayt 'Itab tonight and if its 5x its size before we started expansion on Sept 22nd, I'll nom it tomorrow (last day for consideration). If not, we still built a good article. Cheers my dear. Tiamut^talk 10:02, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I've nominated it just in the nick of time. We are up to 20,700+ bytes and it was 4,111 bytes on Sept 22 when we started. I think we just made the fivefold expansion. Thanks for the valuable contributions Huldra. Have I told you how happy I am that you are back? :)) Tiamut^talk 20:34, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I will be there will bells on. My time is little limited in the weeks to come, but I'll do my very best to put in a couple of hours here and there. We will try to get it up to Good article status, even if not formally, at least substance wise. You are the very best of motivators my dear Huldra. Thank God you're back. Tiamut^talk 21:07, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about that. Totally slipped my mind, but I think I managed to fix it now. Let me know if I'm missed something.

I'll nom Kfar Inan soon. I want to add a bit more first since more and more interesting things tend to come up the more you dig and it might affect the hook choice. Plus I like having them be a bit beefy before they are nominated. It takes the pressure off to get it done somehow. Not making much sense. Too much socializing ... Tiamut^talk 23:18, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I just killed myself laughing too. Oh my goodness! I am very tired actually. Probably best not to muck about too much longer tonight. I'll try to tear myself away. Tiamut^talk 23:40, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Jubb Yusuf

Hello Huldra. I've never used a talk page before, hope I do it right. I just wanted to explain why I deleted the text referring to the pumping station at Tabgha. I don't dispute that Khalidi said it, but he is incorrect: six kilometres is not "near" the site, at least not if we are consistent with the second sentence on the page, which says "the village was associated with a nearby well, Jubb Yussef (Joseph's Well)." Also wanted to say welcome back to the encyclopedia.

Andrew (talk) 16:19, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

==thanks==

thanks for your reply and advice, Huldra.

I don't get into editing Wikipedia enough to be comfortable with it (and I'm lousy at following linear instructions, so I find a lot of digital stuff frustrating), but it is always fascinating when I do.

Andrew (talk) 08:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Images

Sorry for the late reply, yes I have sent out a few image requests, no replies though, maybe they don't understand english? I think I'll continue with Safad they all need to be expanded eventully... although I may only get a chance to expand one or two every few days as I have a lot to do! Best of luck and very glad you are back on board. Himalayan 12:11, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

I will try to fill one or two or every day or two if I can. I will revert this person if he keeps plastering pointless tags over articles. I actually see that he does seem to know what he's talking about. He has only tagged those articles where it doesn't seem much on them in Khalidi's book, a coincidence maybe? Dunno. Anyway I've added to those he tagged, today I'll add the coordinates to half of the Safd villages from Ashley's list. Himalayan 09:58, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Some problems:

• Ammuqa see discussion to move to Ammuka, note; Ammuka (32° 59’ 49.81’’ N 35° 31’ 26.73’’ E)
• is approx apparently 1km south of the site of 'Ammuqa (33° 00’ 18.95’’ N 35° 31’ 31.09’’ E)
• i.e similar sounding names but not the same place.Template:·w
• Karraza, Khirbat 32° 54’ 40.94’’ N 35° 33’ 49.59’’ E suggest moving the ancient village of Chorazin to Karraza, Khirbat.Template:·w

What should we do? Himalayan 10:55, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

i've added to Dallata also. Mentioned in 1596. Could you expand it and perhaps get a DYK on it? Himalayan 12:01, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I've also added a bit about Ayn Ghazal which yo may want to copyedit and ref fix... Himalayan 15:33, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Very nice work, thanks for your help, I'll nominate as a DYK between you and I. Himalayan 10:21, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello, I've added a little to Fir'im, mentioned in the 1596 census... Himalayan 14:46, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Bayt 'Itab

On September 30, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Bayt 'Itab, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

PeterSymonds (talk) 15:55, 29 September 2009 (UTC) 20:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Kafr Inan

On October 9, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Kafr Inan, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (see the pageview stats(?)) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks ... Do think about one for Halloween! Victuallers (talk) 06:28, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Ayn Ghazal

Hello! Your submission of Ayn Ghazal at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Pmlineditor ∞ 17:56, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi my dear, I'm sorry I jumped the gun. Just didn't want to forget to nominate it later. Was not expecting it to get approved so fast since DYK has been a bit backlogged as of late. Do you want me to ask to put it on hold? Sorry for the extra pressure. I always complain of that myself. Hardly considerate to do it to you. Tiamut^talk 23:23, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Huldra. You have new messages at Nsaum75's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Yanuv

No idea about the name of the village - I translated from the Hebrew article, which describes it as "land abandoned by a Nablus family who fled to Jordan during the war of independence". Could just have been farmland in this case, rather than a village. пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:24, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

No worries. The above sentence is the literal translation, which I got from the Hebrew wiki. No idea what their source is though, sorry. пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:35, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I watch the page. Tell me if you need any help with other articles on Israeli localities. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 21:07, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I can't find the book at the moment, but the co-author in question is definitely Yigael Yadin, a well-known archaeologist and researcher of the Land of Israel. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 21:29, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Sheikh Bureik

Hi, Can you identify the Sheikh Bureik shrine in the SWP description of the site? Cheers. Zero^talk 23:17, 12 October 2009 (UTC) Sorry, I'll be more precise. SWP p343-351 gives a long description of the various caves, tombs and other remains close to the village of Sheikh Bureik. However, reading through that I can't see anything that clearly corresponds to the building now known as the Sheikh Abreik shrine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sheikh_Abreik_Grave_in_Kiryat_Tiv'on,_Israel.jpg). Probably I am not looking closely enough, so I wonder if it is clear to you. What I am trying to understand is where the village was in relation to the remains of Beth She'arim excavated in the 1930s-1950s. The excavations were in the same hill as the shrine (I have maps from the excavation reports), but I'm not sure the village was also on that hill; maybe it was on an adjacent hill. Zero^talk 23:53, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the 1936 "discovery" is another of my motivations. That claim appears in the archaeological report of the excavations, so it isn't just a popular story. But if the location is slightly different (such as an adjacent hilltop), all would be explained. Anyway, I have some more leads to chase... Zero^talk 00:11, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Sharon's text is lovely; we should include the poem in the article! I guess that he is not being deliberately deceptive when he refers to the Arab village "in the 19th century", rather he really doesn't know it was there until the 1920s. On the image: I will trim away some of the grey thistles. In a few days I will inspect a 1935 topographical map (1:100,000 scale). If it shows the previous location of the village, I can match it against the maps in the archaeological reports and the SWP map. Btw, soon I plan to scan the village lists from both the 1922 and 1931 census reports. Zero^talk 01:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Mandate era topographic maps: http://www.uflib.ufl.edu/ufdc/?b=UF00080729&v=00001 Zero^talk 07:47, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Sheikh Bureik: [1] By overlaying this with the SWP map, I found that the village was near the point marked "137" (the elevation) and named "Kh. ash Sheikh Bureik" (Kh. = remains). Zero^talk 02:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Village categories

Hi, I wonder if we should have a new category for villages like Jebata and Sheikh Bureik that were depopulated during early stages of the Arab-Israeli conflict (roughly 1882 to 1930). It seems there might be about 20 villages in that class. Or is there a suitable category already? Zero^talk 12:24, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

You might want to check Category:Villages depopulated prior to the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, though it could certainly be a sub-category too. Tiamut^talk 01:17, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Excellent. I've finished adding all the coordinates to the Safad villages, one problem though seems like a lot of them particularly M-Z of Safad are small villages or hamlets so I don't know how much can be added to them... Anyway I'll see if I can find some more to expand using Khalidi. I've also requested Ramla coordinates... I'll try to ensure we have map locators for each one.. Himalayan 11:20, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Mmm I can't think of a hook for Fir'im. Can you? The only one I can think of is about that fact that some villagers returned, could you add a citaation to that, then I'll try it for a DYK... Himalayan 11:45, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Dayr Ayyub attnetion needed.... Himalayan 19:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Wow, you're doing some excellent work!! Keep it up! Himalayan 09:13, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Ayn Ghazal

On October 15, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ayn Ghazal, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

SoWhy 21:28, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Dallata

On October 16, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Dallata, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 03:28, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism in "Al-Haram"

Sallam Aleikum, What you've done in the article "Al-Haram" has no other definition but VANDALISM. I'm really sorry to say that because I can see that you are a great contributor to the English Wikipedia. I've added references to what I wrote. I've worked on the translation for hours. Two out of the three sources are the "Zochrot" project which is an ultra-ultra-ultra leftist organization so you can't say that this is a "Jewish propaganda" or whatever. These are facts from the testimony of Muhammad Al-Masri, who was 12 when his family left the village. I can't understand what is it that gave you the permission to earase all of my addition. You could have open a debate in the discussion page, that's how it works in a democracy. All the best, --Etai han (talk) 08:47, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello there. Today, after you've read this[[2]], can you believe that the relationship between the Arabs and the Zionists in the area of Herzliya were like a family? the history is not black&white, evil&righteous... All the best, --Etai han (talk) 12:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

And hello there. Whenever editors insert completely false propaganda ("Unfortunately, the Arab leadership of those days ordered to abandon the villages until the Arab forces win the war, in order to prevent a big loss of lives." [3] )...I will remove it. If you want to call that vandalism: go ahead. Huldra (talk) 23:09, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

al-Haram / Arsuf

sent you email... Zero^talk 06:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Maps

http://amudanan.co.il/ has the SWP map and a modern topographical map linked together, so you can flip between them. It is in Hebrew but you can figure it out without too much problem. The pop-ups at the blue cycles contain information from guide books (probably not wiki-citable, but useful anyway). Zero^talk 03:00, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Palestine postal history

Wow. Postage stamps and postal history of Palestine is an excellent article. With a bit of work I think this could become a GA even an FA eventually.. Himalayan 12:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Mmm, I'll look into it, because I think I see potential in that one... I've now added coordinates and maps to abour half of the villages. Hopefully with Ashley's help I can get the remainder done, will expand some more Safad possibly later this evening. Himalayan 16:26, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I've added a little to Ghabbatiyya and Al-Dirdara ‎but they look like hamlets, very difficult to write much about I'd imagine. If you can point me to another 1596 village in Safad I'd be happy to make a start on it Himalayan 19:43, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Jahula is a 1596 village. I'll begin the expansion now.. Himalayan 19:50, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Fir'im

On October 21, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Fir'im, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

NW (Talk) 21:57, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Goldmines

Your goldmines are open to thieves like me? Thanks Huldra. By the way, I don't know if you have all the villages on your watchlist. I've started adding them adter noticing that User:Chesdovi tagged a number of them with notability tags. I've asked him to inform WP:PALESTINE in the future when he does this, so we can address his concerns. I hope he does. Tiamut^talk 09:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

If you have time (I see you are quite busy - my goodness!) it would be great if you could add whatever Khalidi has to say about Zayta (Morris too if you've got him). Will nom for DYK once the 1948 material is fleshed out. I only started expanding it today. Used much of your stuff anyway (so you already get a credit :) but I thought if you have the time, well it would be great to have (more) of your help. Happy editing me dear. Tiamut^talk 22:24, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks my dear. You are so on top of things. Real life will be making more demands on me on the weeks to come. I'll do my best to keep an eye out, but probably won't be able to do much article writing soon, for a little bit anyway. Good to know you are here. I'm so glad you came back. So much still left to do and your help (as well as that of Al Ameer, Himalayan, among others) in invaluable. I love editing with you all (and you in particular). Anyway, thanks for everything. Tiamut^talk 22:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. The descriptions of the well by Barclay were particularly interesting for me. I think the hook for a DYK nom should talk about it. Did you know ... that water for the well at the village of Zeita was channeled to the reservoir using a contraption composed of Corinthian capitals, marble pillars, a rough pulley, and 85 stone jars attached by grass ropes? Wordy but something like that. Tiamut^talk 23:22, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Must say too, I wonder what happened such that the water there became "insanitary and malarious" as the 1930 British report says. It sounded like paradise when Barclay described it. Would like to go there to see what rmains of that well exactly. Tiamut^talk 23:23, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

The additions you made helped to clarify the water issue. Privately, I wonder though, if the village being moved had other (political) considerations at the time. I'm going to give the arrticle a good once over (copy edit it at all for flow), change the introduction a bit, and then nom it. Thanks for you help Huldra. Tiamut^talk 09:07, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I just managed to get my hands on an Arabic copy of Khalidi. If you are too tired to do it yourself, do not fret, I will add (based on my translations) and you can corrrect any mistakes I make. Thanks for noticing Huldra. Tiamut^talk 12:33, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks dear. I tried my best to translate Khalidi, but my Arabic is too shoddy for it to be precise enough; besides which, its better to use the English since it is available. I may try my hand at future translations, but only if I can get you to read them over agains the english and correct for accuracy.

Trying to squeeze in as much as I can, which is why today was so productive I guess, since real life really will take me away for a little while soon. I'll do what I can though and keep an eye out for where you are going. You've had quite the productive week yourself! As for the DYK credit on Daliya al-Rawha', I believe its warranted, given your fact-checking, contribs there, etc. You're one of a kind. I'm glad to know you through your work here. A true inspiration. Tiamut^talk 22:22, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Good morning Huldra (it's early afternoon here, but no matter) ... I really shouldn't even be editing right now, but after seeing a couple of crazy edits at Hummus and Rachel Corrie, I had to pop in and set things straight. Anyway, I will definitely nom Dayr Nakhkhas byt he end of today (after a good copy edit and any expansions I can find). Thanks for reminding me and for your work in building it up. Tiamut^talk 11:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Dayr Ayyub

On October 23, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Dayr Ayyub, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

SoWhy 13:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Re:Jisr Jindas

Greetings Huldra! Sorry I haven't been around for a while (expect that to continue for the next few months because school and other things are taking away too much of my time). I will try to get more involved for the next couple of days however. I couldn't find any free pictures of Qasr al-Basha, but a picture of the lion depicted on the castle's walls is found on page 19 of the following PDF file: Pasha's Palace Museum. Anyway, good luck with Jisr Jindas. I'm happy to see we're increasingly developing the Mamluk chapter of Palestine's history. Regards, --Al Ameer son (talk) 21:28, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Howdy

Thanks for your further recent work, you and Tiamut make a great team! I've started expanding Nuris, perhaps you can expand it. The largest spring is a potential DYK but needs sources. Strangely though the 1922 census revealed another hundred people than in 1921 according to the source I used. That's odd.., especially as it says some villagers left... I also started Zikrin[ to finish off the coordinates for Hebron, can't find much about it online.. Himalayan 10:06, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Stein doesn't say the whole population of Nuris was 224, only that that many people were cultivating a particular 5,000 dunams of interest to the Jewish buyers. The 1922 census fiigure (p29) was 364. Zero^talk 10:55, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying that. Huldra I've also expanded Al-Ja'una, another 1596 village. Himalayan 11:59, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Grrr, I thought you had placed the info on the talk page of Al-Ja'una ready for expanding!!!! I thought I was adding your sources thing not restoring the OR! If it was bad material you should nuke it!! I'm not sure exactly what or what is appropriate so perahps you could remove it and delete what you disagree with! Mm I've removed most of it but some of it maybe salvagable if a sources to cite it can be found.. I didn't notice any obvious POV but you were right about a lot of it being original research and dubious. Himalayan 22:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Great, I agree that some information people add may be worth keeping if it can be referenced so I understand why you retained it in the talk page.. Himalayan 11:52, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Now that was the last thing I expected you to ever say LOL. Actually I have a lot on my plate this week anyway and hadn't planned expanding anymore for the time being.... Himalayan 21:03, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Re: Oliphant

Thanks a lot! I'll have a look as soon as I can. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 10:53, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Jahula

On October 29, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Jahula, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Wikiproject: Did you know? 10:50, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Daliyat al-Rawha'

On November 2, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Daliyat al-Rawha', which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

SoWhy 01:56, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

WP

Your revert was totally inappropriate. Three editors expressed concern about this particular section and that warranted action. I first reverted the entire section as WP is discussed in other sections of the article. Moreover, the section cites one source that's pushing a particular POV. Additionally, the source itself is inaccurate because Israel never denied using WP. On the contrary, its usage was clear to everyone. The cited source does not name a single Israeli rep who denied its usage. The second time around, instead of reverting the entire piece, I shortened it and added two more sources including AP and JPOST. I also cited the Red Cross which weighed in with its own opinion. You and AU are pushing a POV to the exclusion of all other suggestions and I'll have none of it. Now AU is resorting to having his opponents silenced by filing complaints and quite frankly, this sort of conduct, where the free exchange of ideas is suppressed, is repugnant, vile and offensive in the extreme.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 05:45, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Zayta, Hebron

On November 2, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Zayta, Hebron, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Daniel Case (talk) 19:56, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

What exactly is going on?

My apologies if my original comments were ill-focused or bad-mannered, but what's going on here is just plain insane. I'm trying my best to flesh out an article with some context as to just why these "Jews from Yugoslavia and Romania" believed to to have some sort of claim to the land, yet a certain editor seems to be using every possible trick in the book, all the way down to vandalising the article by changing the case of a letter in order to hide the fact that a certain article exists. Are you anything short of outraged by this?

Ironic, though, isn't it. Had this kind of activity not existed, there would be no need for any of these alleged "Depopulations", no need for the VERY REAL suffering of the Palestinian People, and indeed, no need for a State of Israel. AbdulHornochsmannn (talk) 15:31, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Dayr Nakhkhas

On November 4, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Dayr Nakhkhas, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

WP:DYK 08:42, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Napoleon in Palestine

Hi, In case you didn't notice, the "Jacotin" maps that I sent in email were actually compiled during the French military "expedition" even though they were published later. They include marks indicating places like the French campsites. I think these maps were the most detailed maps of Palestine until the PEF maps. Cheers. Zero^talk 02:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Dearest Huldra. Thanks for additions of the material from Petersen to Al-Bassa. I really do think that expense notwithstanding, I may end up buying that book one day soon. I am not a big consumer of anything (like clothes, cars, etc.) but books (and fine food) and rather big weaknesses of mine that I do like to indulge from time to time. So perhaps this Christmas I'll have a copy too and will begin adding from it as well. I'd love to find the Moshe Sharon books too (though no doubt they are equally expensive). Perhaps they will have to wait til next Christmas. Cheers my dear. Tiamut^talk 14:21, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer Huldra. Feel free to send any scanned pages on articles you would like to see developed. Make sure to leave a note on my talk page, since I won't check my email otherwise. Speaking of which, I replied to your latest. Much love my dear. And I share your fury about the destruction of priceless historical artifacts. Mine extends to the ransacking of the museum in Baghdad in the first few days of the American invasion as well. I had always wanted to visit that museum. Its gone now ... like many millions of the people of Iraq ... And the land is poisoned for the next few millions years too with Depleted Uranium. Ahhh ... Western progress in pursuit of the New Middle East. Enough to make me want to vomit if I dwell on it too much. Happy editing my dear, Tiamut^talk 16:54, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Nuris

On November 7, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Nuris, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 17:14, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Zikrin

On November 7, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Zikrin, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 17:15, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey

Thanks, I could really need help with the main article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Syrian_towns_and_villages_destroyed_by_Israel --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 13:18, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Ill take a look at it. You might want to see this also: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Neve_Ativ&action=historysubmit&diff=325259802&oldid=325237594 --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:28, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

An account who was opened today User:Breein1007 have once again removed the page, How do I revert it? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 09:35, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Invitation to participate in SecurePoll feedback and workshop

As you participated in the recent Audit Subcommittee election, or in one of two requests for comment that relate to the use of SecurePoll for elections on this project, you are invited to participate in the SecurePoll feedback and workshop. Your comments, suggestions and observations are welcome.

For the Arbitration Committee,
Risker (talk) 08:10, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Sources page

Hi, I hope you don't mind my posts on your Sources page. Please feel free to refactor or delete them as you please. Zero^talk 11:40, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I am of course delighted that you post there, cheers, Huldra (talk) 18:12, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Morris cause of depopulation

Hi Tiamut and Huldra. I'm wondering about the way we present the Morris depopulation summary when Morris gives two causes. I see these: "M/E", "M,E", "E/M", "F,E", "M/F", "F,M", "M,F", "C,F", "F,C", "M,C,E", "C,M", "W,M", "W,E", "C,W" at least. It seems like there is a difference between slash and comma but that is not clearly defined. As we have it now, we separate these into two items in the template, but that seems to lose information and assumes (correctly or not?) that the ordering used by Morris is significant. Wouldn't it be better to put in the code exactly as Morris gives it? I realise it would require work on the template. Zero^talk 01:56, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

My Ban Was Lifted

The nuked Al-Bassa-duck family

My ban had actually been lifted. Zero didn't like that so she re-banned me citing no new transgressions and denying her second ban altogether. Whatever the crime, I did my time. Even if I deserved punishment, you can't punish someone twice for the same thing. Zero's behaviour is being sent to the arbcom. Her case-switching vandalism is being investigated.

Your reverts of my edits are pure ad hominems. The edits are beyond reproach. You reverted them simply because you don't like me. And you even said it.

I will now restore my edits. If you would like to remove them, please find a valid reason, something other than the mere fact that you don't like me. 174.89.240.10 (talk) 07:46, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Nope; Anyone can check the block-log and see that the ban on User:AbdulHornochsmannn was never lifted. Huldra (talk) 08:44, 17 November 2009 (UTC) 

Proposed deletion of Huldra/Morris-list

The article Huldra/Morris-list has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

not clear how this is notable. Lacks any context

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. RadioFan (talk) 13:12, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

OOpsh: my bad: did not create this article in my-user-space as I intended; instead I created it in article-space! Have moved it into my User-space, now. Huldra (talk) 13:20, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Good one :). I'm deleting the redirect your move left behind in article space. Zero^talk 13:23, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

thought this might be interesting

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mr. Hicks The III. nableezy - 01:19, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

politics

On Template talk:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestine War#some comments-, you wrote:

"Nakba" vs 1948 Palestine War: I have no strong opinions about this. There are good arguments for both positions. I would like to say, however, the the Nakba-term is not that well known in all parts of the world, eg, around my parts of the world (=Scandinavia) I would be very surprised if as many as 10, or 20% of the local population would know the general meaning of the word. In fact, it has only been the last few months that I have heard the word mentioned in main-stream media; this due to the efforts of the right-wing Israeli politicians to ban "Nakba-day". (These politicians have done more to spread knowledge of the word than anyone else, something I suspect was *not* their intention...:-D )

well, I think you are wrong. Extremists have a lot of personal gain from the publicity of the opinions of the opposite extremists. Eddau (talk) 23:42, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs

Hello Huldra! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 938 article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the article:

1. Yosef Gorny - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 05:53, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Qays-Yaman

Dear Huldra, can you help me with the Arab word for faction/moiety when talking about Qays and Yaman. In Morocco the word seems to be liff, in Algeria saff. What is it in bilad ash-Shâm? --Xdr56tfc (talk) 15:01, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Yay!!!!

I missed you so much. How you doing? How was your break? Are you back for a while? Kisses. Tiamut^talk 17:38, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to hear about the cold weather you have to endure. Being cold sucks. Winter here can get pretty cold sometimes and on those days I prefer to hibernate rather than deal with the aches in my bones.

It would be great if you could update the Ahmed Bouchiki and Lillehammer affair articles. They would certainly benefit from sources in the local language, which would have given a more detailed rundown of events (perhaps also with less sensationalism than the English-language press is prone to with these affairs). Yes, some things never change (or at least, seem to last much longer than they should). Some people in Nazareth are very paranoid about the Israeli secret services. I'm not one of them. I don't like living in fear and anything can happen at any time so there's little point obsessing. Plus, I don't think they're invincible, as this latest debacle shows.

I may have to book out of editing for a bit just when you are coming back in earnest, since this job (which I was supposed to start earlier and got delayed) may be starting next week. Yes, another film stint, this time for a much shorter stretch than usual, though its likely to be followed by another too. Have to get some money in the bank before taking along break from work to focus on family matters. ;) Much love my dear. Tiamut^talk 18:24, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

You rock. I was going to take a trip to East Jerusalem to get a snapshot of Mujir al-Din's tomb, but you managed to dig it up. Awesome. I'll still be going there soon I hope anyway, so if you have any requests for photos, do let me know. Tiamut^talk 19:29, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Village Statistics 1945

Hi Huldra, Welcome back!! In an increasing number of articles I see phrases like "The last census was taken in 1945 by Sami Hadawi", "In Sami Hadawi 's 1945 land and population survey", etc etc. In my view this is quite incorrect. Hadawi was an employee of the Mandatory Government in charge of the survey project, but it was not his project and he did not publish it. Actually it was an official publication of the Mandatory Government. A correct citation would be something like "Government of Palestine, Village Statistics, 1945". That is how it is cited in lots of official places. Government officials do not usually get billing as authors of government reports. Also the version on the web is reorganized and it is not clear in a few places whether the text is original or modern. Even the tables are typeset again, with Christian and Moslem numbers combined. However, despite trying quite hard I did not manage to find an original copy. The portion of the population tables related to villages within the green line can be found here: [4] (don't trust the OCR, use the PDF file linked at the end). Cheers. Zero^talk 05:08, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

You might be interested to know ...

about this, since your name is mentioned. The editor filing the report didn't bother to notify you, so I thought I would. Tiamut^talk 19:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Agree fully with your analysis. Don't know why I've wasted any time at all at that article, except that, as you mentioned, his death is about more than just him in the Arab world. As you so perceptively pointed out, and as User:Nableezy writes on his use page, he's not the only kid to have ever been killed in this conflict (see also Faris Odeh, Imam Darweesh Al Hams, and countless others whose names are known only to those who loved them). Many of those kids were hit by Israeli snipers in the head or chest, but no one will ever be brought to justice for that. And the meat grinder just keeps on grinding. Anyway, I let my feelings pour out there a little bit. Better, as you suggested to focus on other subjects that can be treated in a more dignified fashion that a child whose death has become an "incident" to be exploited. Tiamut^talk 19:00, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Mujir al-Din al-'Ulaymi

On March 12, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mujir al-Din al-'Ulaymi, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Calmer Waters 06:03, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Of course you deserve it, for your finding of sources and pictures especially. Anyway, I'll ask Nableezy to send me a copy of the article Agil Aga. Would be happy to start a new DYK. I'll let you know when we are ready to go. Pleasure to hear from you my dear. Tiamut^talk 21:06, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay dokey. Nableezy is fast! I hve a copy of the article. Its about 20 pages so I need a little time to read and digest it. I'll start draft tomorrow in user space, snce noticed you are massing other useful sources as well. This way, we won't fell pressured too much by the five day deadlne which has led to my prematurely nomming articles that could have used more work. Anyway, if you want to start a draft before then in your user space, go for it and paste me the link. Otherwise, I'll let you know where I've started it tomorrow. Kind of late here and my brain is fogging, not a good time to start an article about someone I don't know anything about. Cool? Tiamut^talk 21:37, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Cool. In the coming days then ... Good night my dear. Tiamut^talk 21:52, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

I cut the material on Akil Aga from your sources page and pasted it at User:Tiamut/Aga. I started working on it a bit, but then got sidetracked by developing news story about a site I'm writing about at User:Tiamut/Sinnabra. When I finish that one, I'll get back to the Aga article. Its going to need more work, there are many many sources (particularly if you search under "Akil Aga") Aga (or Agha (title)) is a title. His name was Aqil or Aqila, with multiple different spelling possibilities which increase the number of sources on him tremendously. Anyway, that article will definitely have potential not just as a DYK but as a GA. I'll get to it soon, I promise. Tiamut^talk 16:59, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Do check out User:Tiamut/Sinnabra too. It will fit with our still developing series on Architecture of Palestine. Tiamut^talk 17:40, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Is your concern copyright? Or the size of the map? I can resize it to highlight the location of Sinnabra, if that's the only issue. Let me know. Tiamut^talk 20:33, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay, no problem then. I'll save them and resize and reupload them to commons under aa new name as a derivative work in a category for Sennabris. As you suggested, I'll make sure that the captions note they are depictions, by whom, nd in what year. The article makes clear no one ws sure of Sinnabra's precise location until very recently. Weird, eh? I mean I'm reading the old sources, like Josephus and Yaqut and I'm thinking, "How could they have missed it?" Anyway ... Tiamut^talk 20:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

It is indeed. I'm thinking of starting another article on Khirbet Kerak itself where the Bronze Age history, pottery, Hellenistic settlement, etc., could be discussed. I think the split is necessary since al-Sinnabra is generally used to refer to palace complex, and only sometimes the site, usually in the Umayyad era (and before that by its Greek and Talmudic variations). Its not clear to me how this place could have so many names, but such is the history of this tortured little land, isn't it? Tiamut^talk 21:42, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. Very interesting. I uploaded a split map derivative from the 1903 map you found. Not sure it looks so good, but its okay for now. I wish I could get my hands on Whitcomb's 2002 work which was published in al-Usur al-Wusta, but it seems to be available only in hard copy for 9 USD. I might order it one day just to satisfy my curiousity. I'll try adding what you gve me soon, and then move the article to mainspace for nomination. Thanks for everything my dear. Tiamut^talk 16:02, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks again for the new links. I'll get to it soon. Got sidetracked by some very odd and poorly sourced information in the article on Dalal Mughrabi. I have attention deficit disorder it seems. Tiamut^talk 22:12, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Wow. You are amazing. Thank you. Tiamut^talk 22:04, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Those books look very interesting. I'll be perusing them in my spare time. Hoping to get to the Aga article though before that. Trouble focusing ... soon, my dear. Thanks for keeping me on my toes. :) Tiamut^talk 20:24, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Dalal Mugrabi

Looks like you're right regard the 3RR. I hadn't noticed but since you've reverted it already, there's not really anything I can do. Additionally, WHY keep the Fisk information? This isn't a matter of whether Fisk is "good" or "bad" but whether the information is pertinent at all to the article. In relation to Mugrabi's remains, he is just one journalist who made an incorrect claim. Adding his mistaken assertion to the article does not add any value whatsoever and could even constitute WP:Fringe. Please don't look at this in ideological terms and ask if Fisk's mistaken remarks actually add any value to the piece. Thanks. Plot Spoiler (talk) 01:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Hammam Yalbugha

Marhaba Huldra, you mentioned a while back that you had photos of Hammam Yalbugha (Aleppo). I am working on the article at the moment, and it would be wonderful if you could maybe upload them so I can use them in the article. If it's anyway possible. Happy Editing. Yazan (talk) 08:05, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! The photos are wonderful. There are a number of articles lacking photos I'm afraid, both in Aleppo and Damascus. For example, Damascus: Yalbugha Mosque, Aqsab Mosque, Sinan Pasha Mosque (Damascus). Bosra: Al-Omari Mosque (Bosra). And practically all of the madrasah buildings.

I am planning to go on a photo sweep when I am there again in the summer, but I may not be able to reach them all. So any help you can offer would be wonderful. Best! Yazan (talk) 00:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you again Huldra. It's almost impossible to keep track of all the renovated houses. It was easier 15 years ago when there was only Beit Sissi and Beit Jabri ;) Did you go to Bayt al-Aqqad (Supposed to house the ancient Roman theatre)? Thanks again, Happy Editing. Yazan (talk) 00:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Will look up sources for Hammam Nur al-Din, it is grandiose, once I finish working on Hammam Yalbugha. Did you happen to go on "men-only" days? I should be there for August/September (mostly between Damascus and Latakia though). Ahhh just thinking of the food at Beit Sissi makes me drool. Yazan (talk) 00:59, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

(indent) Ha! I did not know that, on behalf of public bath lovers all over Syria, do accept my apologies. Bayt Sissi (the hotel in Aleppo), also has a fantastic restaurant on the ground floor, I think it was the most delicious food I had in Aleppo (and aleppo ofcourse being the best food you can have in the whole of Syria). Thanks for the heads up on Buzuriyah, fixed. The last time you've been there is in 2001? You should go again, old Damascus and old Aleppo have completely exploded with things and people. Yazan (talk) 03:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for all the tweaks and linking the articles to their respective categories in Commons. Will let you know when I am done with Hammam Yalbugha, Happy Editing. Yazan (talk) 06:58, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for all the help on tweaking articles. There are several monuments that I'd like to work on, when time allows (and help will be much appreciated).

• Hammam Nur al-Din, in addition to the archnet source, I found this. And I'm sure Google books will give us more.
• Mausoleum of Saladin
• Mausoleum of Fatima
• Al-Qaymari Bimaristan

All in time... :( Yazan (talk) 07:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Al-Sinnabra

On March 27, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Al-Sinnabra, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 21:35, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for following up on that BLP issue. I'm a little busy in real life and haven't had the time to gie it and other things the attention they deserve. Be back to regular editing soon I hope. Cheers. Tiamut^talk 08:40, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Inkscape

See here. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 21:32, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Greetings!

Hey Huldra! Great to hear from you again. Apparently, when I replied to your previous post I stupidly forgot to save it. Oh well, I added the picture of the Jifna woman (article was in need of images.) I also want to congratulate you and Tiamut on your recent efforts, especially with Mujir al-Din. I wouldn't say I'm becoming fully active again, but certainly more active. I've been trying to log on every couple days. Anyway, keep up the great work! Hopefully I'll be able to edit more in the summer. Cheers! --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:55, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Hammam Yalbugha

On April 4, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Hammam Yalbugha, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 06:03, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Wasn't me!

The world-wide Al-Bassa-duck family

That last post was from India. People have been objecting to obvious bias of that article from all over the world for years now. It's just plain propagana. I'm not the only nutcase in the world who can see through it. 70.53.224.138 (talk) 19:44, 12 April 2010 (UTC) Lewis

Re: Ajikbaksh House

I will have to look up some sources for Ajikbaksh House, I doubt there will be many in English. Same for Jerada and Rweiha, everything I found seems to be copied from the Lonely Planet entry on them. I don't like starting stubs, it feels like I am nipping the article in the bud. My todo, should also include, an array of overlooked Ismaili castles and strongholds on the coast, like Al-Kahf Castle (Have you been there, btw? It's a fascinating and humbling place! The epitome of nature's fury on man-made ruins.)

You have done an amazing work on 1948 villages of Palestine, it's fascinating really how you've been able to collect all of these sources. I am trying to add the Arabic names to the most obvious ones, some of them have obscure pronunciation, that I can't really predict with precision.

I don't know what happened really. I never really got involved in it (until, a bit, recently). But it never seemed this bad before. There is just so much absurdity in everything that's being said, I truly wish the admins would go on a topic-ban crusade, for the sake of sanity! Yazan (talk) 10:26, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Ha! I've always been a bit envious of Scandinavian people. You come with 4 languages by default. My 3rd language took me 4 years, and extended (expensive) therapy sessions for clinical depression. Unfair would an understatement! ;)

You have 2 books that could really, really help. Ross Burns' Monuments of Syria, and his Damascus: A History. The latter is the definitive history of Damascus, and we really really needed when we were pushing for GA!

Anyways, this PI situation is really stressful for everyone. I'm glad you could talk to Factomancer and try to cool her down a bit, she was going down the wrong road. I hope it turns out for the best. Have a lovely weekend. I know I am self-blocking for the weekend, need a little intoxication before school kicks in! Yazan (talk) 17:38, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Hello Huldra. I am terribly sorry for the absence. My mini-break was extended due to the extreme failure of my immune system (or complete lack-thereof). Thank you, thank you for getting the books! We should definitely get on expanding from them promptly. For the next few days though, I'm gonna let the end-of-season flu to take the best of me, in the hope that it'll be gone for a good while. I'll msg you once I'm able to smoke a cigarette without coughing half of my lungs out of my chest. Ahh, the absurdity of illness. Best! Yazan (talk) 08:30, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I imagine the 1992 edition would be just as helpful. Thanks again. Yazan (talk) 08:44, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Sderot & Najd

you are the one who is "making" facts over Sderot and Najd. I advice you to come visit the area and take a good look at things before making deсisions that can effect a lot of readers. Telling fairytails wont make things better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.108.47.191 (talk) 19:49, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Sigh. I am just using the information found in the books of Benny Morris and Walid Khalidi. if you have other information, based on WP:RS, then by all means; insert it. But please stop removing information based on WP:RS. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 07:07, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, i'm a journalist and my information is based on reserch I am doing on Sderot's area. the village Najd did existed, it was a small village with no more then 100 citizens which were a mix of jewish and muslims. it was based on trade with Gaza and small use of the surrounding territories for agriculture. your use of Wikipedia is abuse and propoganda, Sderot is not ON Najd's land, it is near. the books of Benny Morris and Walid Khalidi could be propoganda too. they're information cannot be more based then mine. Again, I invite you here as my personal guest to see for yourself. MaorM —Preceding undated comment added 08:10, 12 May 2010 (UTC).

note

• 84.108.47.191 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 84.228.6.112 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 84.228.61.116 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

WP:HOUND

Some ducks just quack so loud..

Do not follow me around to revert my edits. (p.s. if you use two accounts such as "nableezy" as well, that makes it even worse, Sock)LeeSeem (talk) 00:59, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

WP:ANI#User:LeeSeem. nableezy - 01:04, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

There is also some garbage left to clean up at Deir Yassin. nableezy - 01:13, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

For any outsiders reading this: LeeSeem was indef. blocked after the whole of 36 edits. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Toothie3 ---Huldra (talk) 02:01, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

You are invited.

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Nableezy Dlohcierekim 01:12, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Re: Pictures, etc.

About Sheikh Abreik, I am not sure what you are asking? The Hebrew article is about the tomb/shrine, and does not have any information on a village.

Sanadala: I have placed the image here.

al-Bassa: File:Abandoned Arab house in Bassa.jpg, File:Bassa church.jpg, File:Bassa church back.jpg, File:Bassa sheikh tomb.jpg

Cheers, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 21:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I have not been able to find either of the two locations from a quick search. I'll let you know if I'll dig further into it. Cheers, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 21:19, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

French

Hi, do you read French? Or, you, Tiamut? I have a huge catalogue of localities (La Palestine Byzantine: Catalogue by Claudine Dauphin, 1998) and also a 2-volume work (Geographie de la Palestine by Abel, 1967). Both have huge amounts of material, but in French. Also Tabula Imperii Romani, Iudaea, Palaestina by Y. Tsafrir et al, 1994 (in English), is a standard reference for Roman remains. I did not find any of these on the web, please let me know if you can find them. Zero^talk 13:01, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I read French and can translate any excerpts you wish to have made comprehensible upon request. I haven't been able to find those works online, but Huldra is much better at locating older works on Palestine than I am. If you can scan pages you want translated and send them to me, I'd be happy to be oblige. But do leave me a note on my talk page so that I check my email. I'm not doing that regularly. Cheers. Tiamut^talk 13:19, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Great, I'll send you the whole book and you can translate all for us. Only 1042 pages of fine print ;). Zero^talk 13:38, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I think Nishidani, and of course Ceedjee, also both are French-speakers...Huldra (talk) 13:53, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Samar Abed Rabbo

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Samar Abed Rabbo. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Samar Abed Rabbo. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:07, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Drork

quack, quack!

Curb your pro-Harlan passion. Nacnikparos (talk) 10:10, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

You chose not to take my advice. WP is not the place to act like gangster. You violated the 3R rule as well. While I cleaned up your mess, you violated this rule deliberately to introduce political opinions. Cool down, and you'd better do it quickly. Nacnikparos (talk) 10:23, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Drork, I wouldnt waste your time responding Huldra. nableezy - 14:51, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Nab. I see this joker was indeffed after the whole of 16 useless (=all reverted) edits..why on earth do they bother? Cheers, Huldra (talk) 21:18, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Al-Qabu

Hello! Your submission of Al-Qabu at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Mcorazao (talk) 21:32, 24 April 2010 (UTC) --Mcorazao (talk) 21:32, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Sorry my dear ... I've been away from all computers for a few days and only got access to one again today. I'm glad to see you figured it out yourself. Good work. Tiamut^talk 10:07, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey there. Will see what I can do about Sheikh Danun but I'm still busy in real life so keep an eye out and do the nom if you notice I'm about to miss the deadline. Keep up the great work. Tiamut^talk 19:14, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I'll nominate Sheikh Danun either tonight to tomorrow. It has to be done before the 29th at 1am to qualify. Khulda has more time, but I'll do that soon too. Thanks for all your work Huldra. Well done. Tiamut^talk 13:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Sheikh Bureik, Lajjun

Ucucha 08:02, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Khulda

"The Crusaders referred to Khulda as Huldre", but this article is very thin. Time to do something about the family honor? :-) Zero^talk 14:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

New source for Galilee

Hi, Have you seen this new book by Uzi Leibner: [5]? It has very detailed descriptions and photos of many Galilee sites. I'd like to get it but the cheapest I can find is $US199 and no library near me has it. Zero^talk 12:42, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Al-Mazar, Jenin

Thanks for helping out. I created the stub, but couldn't really go any further since I'm not familiar with the subject. -Reconsider! 06:51, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Just to let you know ... Al-Mazar, Jenin and Sulam have been nominated (Hableh too). What's next? :) Tiamut^talk 13:59, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Arab villages

Hi Huldra. The stubs were created from translating from the Hebrew Wikipedia - see Ed Dahi and Sulam. The Hebrew Wikipedia does not use citations or sources, but in my experience it is usually reliable and does not seem to suffer much from vandalism, bias or speculation like our version does... пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:56, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

No sources or citations and yet its not speculative? That's pretty funny ... Tiamut^talk 12:59, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

It's not funny, it's just true. The Hebrew version of Wikipedia does not attract the hordes of POV-pushers that English Wikipedia does, largely as most of those who have a strong view to push seem more interested on doing it on the most-read version (English). The standard of articles on the Hebrew Wikipedia is very high and does not tend to dissolve into tit-for-tat additions of material which is aimed at making the other side look bad as always happens on this version. Of course, there are occasional mistakes (I've corrected a few myself), but it seems to be largely genuine error rather than the deliberate falsification and denial of blatant facts that goes on here. пﮟოьεԻ 57 22:37, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Sheikh Danun

Materialscientist (talk) 08:02, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Al-Qabu

Materialscientist (talk) 00:02, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Majdal Yaba

Thanks Huldra for adding A. Petersen's Gazetteer at Majdal Yaba . finally, I found a picture of my town with houses in Kessale (talk) 12:07, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes Huldra my ancestors are from Majdal Yaba, Peterson's book was infact very useful, I am trying to get a high resolution copy of the picture of our village, and I am also putting down a village timeline from 4500 BC upto the present. I've tried to use the timeline template in vain. Hope you can guide me Kessale (talk) 17:09, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Majdal Yaba Timeline

I'll be glade if you may review the following article [6] and add your comments accordingly Kessale (talk) 09:13, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

• Here is some literature related to 1799 French invasion. A breif description of Gen. Damas encounter with the peasants is at pages 69. at pages 75 and 76, footnotes 1 and 6 there is a mention of nahar-el-ougeh, I believe this is the farthest the frensh were able to go closer to Majdal Yaba, and I believe the peasents who attacked the french and the mountains inhabited by the Naplousians mentioned here are those of Majdal Yaba, and it seams to me this is the reason why even the name of the village was not mentioned at this literature and it was name Megdeh at the map [7] Kessale (talk) 00:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
• The same story appears here however the General's name here is Lannes who this time pursued a troop of mountaineers into passes of Naplouse it mentions the Turks firing from behind rocks and down precipices. From the narration, and the techniques used against the Franks, this supports my theory that the inhabitants on Majdel Yaba at that time were not villagers but trained Turkish soldiers [8] page 175

Kessale (talk) 00:46, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

• You wrote: ok, I have taken a (quick!) look at the time-line here:[9]. It is very impressive, but my first objection was the same as I see someone else has commented on: namely, you seem to put Antipatris (earlier: Ras al Ain) in the same box as Majdal Yaba. When you add the 1579 CE stuff..that is from Antipatris

Will this is the reality Huldra, Majdal Yaba lands stretch 26.3 sq.km. It is as big as Jerusalem in terms of land size. Ras El Ain is part of Majdal Yaba's historical lands [10], before the british built their Military Camp in Ras el Ain all the lands there were named Majdal Yaba, please see this map dated 1929 [11], you can see two Majdal Yaba's, the one in the middle which is for the whole area, and the one at the bottom right hand side, which is the village, my grandfather, as well as all families in Majdal Yaba, own those lands. My father used to go to the north of Auja River everyday to cultivate it - top left handside of the map - [12]. We cannot help but think it's one and the same, regards, Kessale (talk) 20:58, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

If you may send me a direct link to Morris' Map, I might be able to help in removing sime ambiguity Kessale (talk) 10:49, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

• To Majdal Yaba belonged the vast lands stretching from Petah Tikva to the west, Deir Ballut to the east, Kafr Qasim to the north and Al-Muzayri'a to the south. With a total area of 26.63 Sq. Km, [13] all those lands, castles, springs, mills, rivers, quarries, vineyards, citrus grooves etc which are within that boundry belonged to Majdal Yaba. Please have in mind that it was the headquarters of all govenments which had ruled the place all over history, and a lordship during the crusaders. Ras Al Ain was the regional administrative and military headquarters, while and Mirabel was the regional watch tower and lord's residence, they are inseparable. Ras Al Ain was only deserted in recent history after it's british occupation in Sept 12. 1918, who built a big camp over it's lands calling it Camp Ras El Ain (120 Maintenance Unit) [14]. Parts of Al-Mirr also goes under Majdal Yaba lands, it was dominated by a christian family who said to have sold it in 1931 to the Keren Kayemet who built Kibbutz Einat at this land in 1952, hope this clears things up regarding the Morris' two Majdal Yabas [15] , Ras Al Ain [16], Antipatirs [17], and al-Mirr [18] refered in Morris-Khalidi lists Kessale (talk) 13:57, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Khalidi128.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:Khalidi128.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Melesse (talk) 06:36, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Mazra'a

It has to be nominated by the end of today to qualify. Is that cool with you?

Hook options:

• ... that when Mazra'a was one of the Viftlik estates under the direct rule of the Galilee governor Daher al-Omar (c. 1690 - 1775), it was exempt from paying taxes to the Ottoman Empire?
• ... that Mazra'a formed part of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem, and is mentioned in a 1283 treaty with the Mamluk Sultan Qalaun?

Thoughts? Preferences? Tiamut^talk 07:24, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I posted both options in the nom at DYK. About non-article happenings ... you're right, it's not worth the wasted energy. Next project? Tiamut^talk 20:19, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK Nom Khulda

Hello! Your submission of Khulda at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! – VisionHolder « talk » 17:18, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Khulda

The DYK project (nominate) 00:01, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Well Huldra, we did good ... 5,700 hits! I listed it at WP:DYKSTATS. Thanks for all your contribs. I noticed you should be getting a 25DYK award soon, but I'm leaving it up to someone else to grant it as I'm aware of your contribs and have already given you so many awards. I'm sure it will be granted soon. Well done my friend. Tiamut^talk 08:10, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Sulam

The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

3RR

Hello. I'm reporting you for your WP:3RR violation on Sderot. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 17:52, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Mazra'a

The DYK project (nominate) 06:03, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Al Mazar, Jenin

Thanks from me and the wiki Victuallers (talk) 18:02, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Aerial Palestine

I just found this website with a map and list of villages and aerial photos dated back to 1944 and 1945 [19] Kessale (talk) 18:15, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Totally swamped

... in real life, so I'm sorry I can't commit to pitching in on your latest DYK drives with Zero0000. I'll try to give a quick copy edit to Ar'ara tonight and nom it for DYK on your behalfs, but I can't promise anything, so be ready to do it yourself before tomorrow if I fail. Work and other stuff ... my apologies. Miss editing with you dear and I hope everything is good with you. Tiamut^talk 08:47, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Al-Mirr

The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Al-Muizz Lideenillah and account of a pen

Hi,

You recently reverted my edit to the Al-Muizz Lideenillah article, in which I removed a citation to the muslimheritage.com article 'Origins of the Fountain Pen'.

The muslimheritage.com article draws solely from Bosworth's "A Mediaeval Islamic Prototype of the Fountain Pen?", which is already cited in the Al-Muizz Lideenillah article. Like many articles from muslimheritage, this one is not peer reviewed and has reference problems - it uses direct quotes from the Bosworth article such as "confidant and companion of Al-Mu'izz" without putting them in quotes, and fails to cite the Bosworth article correctly: "Medieval Arabic Culture and Administration" C. E. Bosworth appears at the bottom of the page, but this is not a complete citation, and is not the title of his article which describes the pen. In addition to these reasons, note that Muslimheritage.com has been found to be an unreliable source: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_18#History_of_Science.

Please restore my edit.

Dialectric (talk) 14:57, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps you are unaware that much of the content on muslimheritage.org is not authored by Ahmad Y. al-Hassan... Regardless of the quality of muslimheritage.com in general, for this specific case, the translation the muslimheritage page employs is lifted directly from the Bosworth article, as are all claims made on the webpage. As such, it is an unnecessary secondary citation for the quote. Having read both Bosworth's article and the muslimheritage.com webpage on the pen, I can assure you that the article provides no additional information. Given that it is a secondary source solely based upon an original translation which is already cited, I again ask that you restore my edit. I will take a look at Jewish Virtual Library; if it has similar issues (flawed citation practices, no peer review, self published), then it may well be an unreliable source and its removal could be justified.Dialectric (talk) 21:59, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

The comment you made about "Hassan's views" (on Dialectric's talk page) is not referring to MuslimHeritage.com, but to Hassan's own website, History of Science and Technology in Islam. As far as I understand Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 18#History of Science, MuslimHeritage.com is not a reliable site, and therefore should not be used. I agree that some of the material there is not bad, and all of it is well sourced. But see the example at User:Syncategoremata/Unreliable sources#MuslimHeritage.com for one egregious misuse of sources by one of the articles on that site (there is another similar one in the same article). Other articles also quote the most appalling bad sources without distinguishing material from those sources with other material from reliable sources. My current impression of their quality level is such that I automatically distrust anything sourced from them (or from 1001Inventions.com, which is run by the same organisation).

I would hope that we can remove use of the site. If what it says is supported by other (reliable) sources then those other sources should be used instead.

All the best. –Syncategoremata (talk) 23:43, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Norwegian newspapers

Hi, some discussion at Talk:Mohammad Amin al-Husayni might interest you. Zero^talk 13:58, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Truesade

Not sure if you didnt notice, but that was already opened. Mind folding your request into the other? nableezy - 21:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, delete as you wish. nableezy - 21:25, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Ar'ara

The DYK project (nominate) 06:03, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Thought you might be interested

See here. Cheers. IronDuke 00:00, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Merge discussion for [[ Yibna ]]

An article that you have been involved in editing, [[ Yibna ]], has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Sreifa (talk) 05:42, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Welcome back

About time I saw your name on my watchlist. Hope all is well with you. nableezy - 17:51, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Happy New Year Huldra! Such a long absence... Hope you decide to stay..♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:08, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree. It was a pleasure to see your name on my talk page again, and I hope our paths continue to cross. RolandR (talk) 23:13, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Great pleasure to me too. Hmbr (talk) 13:55, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, thanks, folks... Huldra (talk) 06:19, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Dearest Huldra. You have been much missed. Though I am not around so much anymore, I do peek in from time to time, and without you to develop them, the village articles don't grow much. I'll try to pitch in here and there though RL keeps calling and it has such a sweet voice these days. :) Did you manage to find what you were looking for? I hope so. Much love ... Tiamut^talk 19:26, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

AfD

WP:AFDHOWTO - for future reference. Prodego ^talk 20:50, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks, I saw the page, but found much of it Greek to me!! Cheers, Huldra (talk) 20:55, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Aluf Benn

I made a new entry for Aluf Benn, basically by copying the Hebrew version. Can you look it over for me? Thanks Rabbi-m (talk) 14:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Ali Farzat

Dear Huldra, thanks for the comment on the DYK, and adding the further reading section. This is probably the most absurd I've ever seen. Anyway, it's been a while. I hope you're well! Yazan (talk) 02:21, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I noticed, WPSyria isn't doing any better either. Why don't I make an offer, Umayyad Mosque. GA? It's a daunting task considering the state it's in at the moment... What do you think? a little break from all the pulling and shoving down south? :) Yazan (talk) 07:08, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Huldra ;)

Greeting Huldra! I'd just like to thank you for continuing to tenaciously contribute to Palestine-related articles in a time when efforts at WP Palestine have been greatly reduced. I want you know that I'll be at least stopping by as much as possible now. If you need any help with an article(s), please inform me so we could continue the path we were on months ago. Btw, I've begun expanding an article on Khayr al-Din al-Ramli, a famous jurist in Ottoman Palestine and greater Syria. I seek any help you could offer, maybe we could nominate it for a DYK if it's possible. Regards... --Al Ameer son (talk) 18:09, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Yea there's really very little on al-Ramli in English sources. It's too bad he was quite famous in the region back in his day. We should begin work on the Umayyad mosque very soon. If you have any sources list them here or on my talk page so we could edit the article with all the necessary tools. As for Dayr al-Shaykh, I'll see what info Khalidi has on it and add it to the article. --Al Ameer son (talk) 23:50, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Hey I nominated Dayr al-Shaykh for DYK, but apparently Tiamut and Zero are not going to be given credit because they did not actively participate in this recent expansion. --Al Ameer son (talk) 00:11, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Your spurious claim on AN/I

Hi Huldra, in this claim you alleged that I complained about outing after I myself released my real name on my images. First-of-all, I wonder, if you could find any place I myself released my email address and/or email addresses and real names of my correspondents, and after you'll do this, could you please come up with a difference, in which I complained about outing. If you cannot find such differences, may I please ask you to remove your spurious and absurd claim from AN/I, and to give it another thought before coming up with unconfirmed charges ever again. Please have a nice day.--Mbz1 (talk) 14:48, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Mbz1, either you don't read, or you're so impulsive you don't know what you're reading. Huldra said you've already outed your RL name (not email). Proof of that is right here on a photo that is linked from your user page. Huldra certainly did not make spurious comments, on the contrary, she said she supported a block for acts of socking and hacking, if proven. You need to tone down and maybe for once AGF. Yazan (talk) 15:34, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Zozo2kx, or Yazan, or whoever you are, I am not sure you were able to understand what I said, so just for you here's one more time: user:Huldra made a spurious claim on AN/I about me complaining about outing. Here's this claim with not just one, but two exclamation marks: "Srsly, you cannot name your RL-name as an "author"...and then complain about "outing"!!. So my post to user:Huldra's talk page was concerning two things: first to stop user:Huldra talking absurdity because outing was not only about my real name being released, and the second point was to make user:Huldra to provide the differences of me complaining about outing to confirm her spurious claim about my alleged complaining. So may I please suggest you Zozo2kx, or Yazan watching your language like using the word "impulsive" for example, which I consider to be a personal attack, and learn you subject before making comments? Please have a nice day--Mbz1 (talk) 19:05, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't care much for this constant assumption of bad faith on your part, your battleground mentality, not to mention all the drama you bring along. Frankly, I couldn't care less for what you consider and what you don't. You think it's a personal attack there's plenty of admins out there, go, have a field day. Oh, and I'm having a perfectly wonderful day, thank you. Yazan (talk) 19:26, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, it is a familiar and usual tactic of screaming by somebody, who actually has nothing to say on the matter itself. Marxists in my country used this tactic a lot, so I know, and not surprised... And with that I am outta here.--Mbz1 (talk) 20:01, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

As has been noted above, I did not claim the things Mbz1 said I had claimed. (A very common practice, if I may say). Due to her editing in general when it comes to the Israel/Palestine area, I intent to start ask for a ban for Mbz1 from this area...if I have time (I am extremely pressed for time, with RL-business at the moment). I am collecting notes at User:Huldra/Sandbox2. (If I don´t have the time, anyone else is free to make use of the notes.) Cheers, Huldra (talk) 10:58, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Good luck with your collection:-) I would not be surprised, if an "useful idiot" will file that AE for you. Please have a nice day.--Mbz1 (talk) 13:42, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Huldra, I saw that you are preparing a case against Mbz1 so I just thought I should let you know that Mbz1 made several personal insults today. In these edits she questions if others have common sense - [20][21][22], and she calls me a vandal in this edit summary. Hope this adds to your case, Passionless -Talk 01:37, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:Huldra/Sandbox2

User:Huldra/Sandbox2, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Huldra/Sandbox2 and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Huldra/Sandbox2 during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Mbz1 (talk) 20:00, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Dayr al-Shaykh

—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:56, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

AfD of article you worked on

Please see: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Justus Weiner (2nd nomination). Jaque Hammer (talk) 04:50, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

RFC/U on Mbz1

You've been collecting evidence for a month now, and deletion of your sandbox page was turned down on the 16th, on the grounds that you were shortly going to open an RFC/U. For the avoidance of more drama, could I ask - are you able to actually start the process within the next week? As I'm sure you'll appreciate, these evidence pages can't be kept hanging around for too long without the option for the subject to respond and the wider community to comment. You seem to have plenty of material and several endorsers. All it would appear to be missing is the evidence of failure to resolve the dispute - all the endorsers need to be able to show that they have attempted to resolve the dispute. Thanks for your help. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:36, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

It seems like Huldra has gone on a wikibreak, with no indication of when she may return. Anyways, I think the "evidence of failure to resolve the dispute" is that she continues to make the type of edits which are being collected. Passionless -Talk 23:50, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Two things. One - if Huldra has gone on a wikibreak, I will have to either delete that page or move it to someone else's userspace. Really, unless it is active preparation for an RFC, it has to go as an attack page (however justified you believe the evidence to be). Second, no - failure to resolve the dispute has a specific meaning in this context. To endorse an RFCU, you need to be able to show that you personally attempted to reason with, negotiate with, compromise with, or otherwise work with the named editor, and they refused to see reason, negotiate, compromise or whatever. It does trip people up, which is why I thought I would mention it. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:55, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Alright, well I'm willing to take the page into my userspace, and I think I can bring up some conversations between me and Mbz and others and Mbz which have been fruitless. Passionless -Talk 00:07, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

OK, do you think you will be able to open a WP:RFC/U within 7 days? It has to be done on a specific template - you'll find all the details at that Wikilink, and it has to be certified by the other users who have attempted to resolve the dispute within 48 hours, so you will need to have your "ducks in a row". --Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:18, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually I think I would rather take Mbz1 to AE under ARBPIA, as it's easier and will still topic ban her, and I will do this by the end of the week. Passionless -Talk 00:35, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

OK, great. So when user:passionless will take me to AE, by the end of the week as promised this attack page is going to be deleted, isn't it? Passionless, go ahead, take me to any place you want, but remember your hands are not cleaned, and it is very likely you will end up with a topic ban yourself. I am looking forward to taking "my case" to AE , RFC/U and any other venue. It will be an opportunity for me to defend myself. My only concern is about the attack page in question. It is being maintained, but I have no ability to defend myself, and it is just wrong.--Mbz1 (talk) 00:41, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Personally I wish you guys could make it up and edit constructively together, but if that's not going to happen, then it is preferrable that whatever action is taken within a reasonable time, and this page is not left hanging about. I'll check back on progress. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:55, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

user:passionless has moved the page now to "save it from deletion". I explained to her at her talk page, this move is not going to save it from deletion, and that she should act on it within a week. Keeping that attack page without getting me an opportunity to defend myself is just wrong.

To me the best case scenario would have been an interaction ban with user:passionless. It wold have saved mine time and the time of community, besides it was proposed already.--Mbz1 (talk) 01:06, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) As a matter of fact I have no active disputes with any users that are collecting "evidences" against me except user:passionless. If you are to look over that attack page, you will not find any so called "evidence" of me having dispute with user:Huldra personally. What user:Huldra has done, was hounding over my contributions (some of which are a year old), taking out of content comments, and posting them there with the only purpose to harass me. Besides as user:Huldra specified her goal is to topic ban me on I/P related topics. RFC/U is a wrong venue for those kind of sanctions. AE could be used to topic ban an editor.--Mbz1 (talk) 00:01, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

The attck page you created

I now responded to the bogus, false, half-truth, absurd, laughable and ridiculous accusations you and three others made against me at the attack page you created. I only wish I responded to it a month ago, when it was started by you. It was a very low conduct of four of you who participated in this witch hunt.

I would strongly recommend you never again get engaged in such activities.

Please have a nice day.--Mbz1 (talk) 15:53, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Right. The "bogus, false, half-truth, absurd, laughable and ridiculous accusations you and three others" made against you resulted in you getting a one-year topic ban. Please have a nice year. Huldra (talk) 18:15, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

No worries, I will. I am not SPA as you are. I have variety of interests on Wikipedia. BTW just before I was unfairly topic-banned I was planning to leave wikipedia, topic ban made me only more resilient. I wrote a few more good articles that would not have been written, if you would not have collected your garbage "evidences" by wikihounding my contributions all over wikipedia. IMO wikihounding is the worst kind of harassment. Although I might leave wikipedia at any time, please do not credit yourself for this. Better give yourself a credit for making me to stay a fem more months.I pity you.--Mbz1 (talk) 07:02, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

I might leave Wikipedia at any time, too! Although, more likely to be on an early Tuesday afternoon, than any other time. Usually I leave for a short break of between one to three hours. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 07:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Somewhere in the world right now, it is Tuesday afternoon. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 04:47, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Lol! I just saw what you meant, (But isn´t it funny, how others continue in the same manner [23], just when someone got topic-banned? Hmmmm. Cheers Huldra (talk) 04:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

No worries, indeed. Someone came here write about design, but met a few POV-pushers...and the rest is history, as they say. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 02:56, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Hey you. Speaking of POV pushing, check out Hamsa.

How are you? You are very much missed in these parts. Hope to be seeing more of you soon. Tiamut^talk 11:52, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I do so miss editing with you here

Real life has become all-consuming leaving little for the virtual world but as soon as I can carve out a little time here and there, I'll be back to continue collaborating with you and others on maintaining and improving this encyclopedia's coverage of the subjects dearest to my heart. Its been a great pleasure. Tiamut^talk 18:19, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you!

I just got unblocked and this time I'll try to stay out of heated discussions, just taking it easy. What I wanted to say was; thank you for your support! الحمد لله :) have a nice weekend! Fipplet 14:11, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok, congrats, and I hope you have grown up a bit in the past year. Learning a new language is certainly always a good idea! ...But jumping straight into a heated discussion about the Golan Height does not look ...very wise..? Cheers, Huldra (talk) 18:22, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I agree with you it wasn't a very good idea. I don't think a discussion can do any harm as long as you don't get into an edit war, but it's very time consuming and well just a bad idea, so I left it pretty quickly. Will stay out of it now. Thanks again! Fipplet أهلا و سهلا 22:51, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

King Saul & The River

I am trying to search out the name of the river mentioned in the Old testement (Judges vii. 5-7) and the Qur'an (Sura AlBaqara 251)

Saul tested his people at a river; whoever drank from it, would not follow him in battle. Many drunk but only the faithful ventured on. In the battle, however, David slew Goliath and was made the subsequent King of Israel. The Qur'anic account differs slightly from the Biblical account in that the sacred ark was recaptured in the Bible before Saul's accession and the test by drinking water is made in the Bible not by Saul but by Gideon ages before Saul

I read in many articles it's the river Jordan, but I have reasons to believe it was Yarkon River

Any thing to support or negate this hypothisis would be hightly appreciated Kessale (talk) 10:42, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

I happened to see this due to the query below, and can offer that some commentators (Gill, Keil & Delitzsch) see it as the waters formed from the fountain of Harod, (Jdg. 7:1). A few translations that i have checked do say "river," and in the KJV, there are about 4 words that are translated "river," or "stream," but the word here (mayim) is not one of them, but it a word that is used for water from a well of water, (Gn. 24:11; Ex. 15:27) or is used for water from the river. (Ex. 7:24)

The lesson that is seen here is that this reduction of men was in order to make it manifest that it is nothing with Him to help, "whether with many, or with them that have no power," (2Chrn. 14:11) that Israel was to ultimately trust and rely upon God and His power and not their own prowess.

Hope this helps. Daniel1212 (talk) 13:42, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Why is the Breivik manifesto not sufficient as a source?

seeing as the Norway police say Breivik was behind it? [24] [25]? I do not understand. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel1212 (talk • contribs) 13:16, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Did I tell you by the way how I completely distrust Al Jazeera these days? Did you see this report on the events in Norway? it ended with this:

"The attack comes days after Norwegian prosecutors filed a terrorism charge against Mullah Krekar, founder of the Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam, who is accused of threatening a former minister, Erna Solberg, with death. Norway has previously received threats from al-Qaeda over its involvement in combat operations in Afghanistan, where it has 406 troops. It has also taken part in the NATO bombing of Libya, where Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, has threatened to strike back in Europe."

I mean really, what blatant propaganda, achieved by providing less than half the story. The charge on Mullah Krekar was filed on July 12. One could just as easily have mentioned that on june 21, government ministers met with the youth shot on the island on june 22, and had pledged to implement their requests to see a free Palestine today, not tomorrow. Doesn't prove anything. But the selective highlighting is instructive - and continues ... for though Norway's involvement in Afghanistan and Libya are facts, not mentioned is that they announced their intention to pull their troops out of the latter next month.

Jazeera's report made it into Western papers too (see here for just one example and note that its the second entry in the timeline report on the attacks)

Very interesting all this and even more interesting when Jazeera reports are compared with those put out by The New York Times based on what Will McCants had to say (i.e. that the leader of Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, Abu Suleiman al-Nasser, had claimed responsibility for the attacks in an Islamist web forum that McCants frequents (?!?) and that they said it was a response to Norway's troops being present in Afghanistan and Libya and their insults toward the Prophet).

All of this, pointing to the same group or two with nearly identical names, before Norwegian police announced the capture of Anders Breivik ... putting an end to the preparations on the ground for what it seems like it could have been: a false flag operation that failed, rather miserably (as some have in the past). Playing with our lives and our fears - but thankfully, its not working and people are waking up. Tiamut^talk 17:27, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Just following up on Tiamut's point, Craig Murray posted a forthright (and rapid) blog on this subject: islamophobia-run-wild. Also several more of his following blogs, esp. is-anders-breivik-in-this-photograph. It's still doubtful, in my view, whether Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami exists at all - an unverifiable claim from a blog would never pass muster as a WP:RS, and yet there's a huge media hoo-ha based largely on this claim. A pity that Murray's blog isn't a RS. --NSH001 (talk) 17:49, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Interestingly, Norwegian media (and commentators) were very much more cautious....not strange really, as all cases of political violence in Norway has been committed by ...right-wingers. There was something called the "Hadeland-killings" in the early 80´s (2 killed), and then the Murder of Benjamin Hermansen in 2001 + a bomb thrown at a 1st May-parade -- There have been other attacks (including one shooting against a synagogue) --but in each and every case where people have actually got hurt: right-wingers have been behind it.

The other thing was the target Utøya: I think the moment that was known (a couple of hours after the bombing) most people in Norway realised that it was a "home-grown" affair. You see: Utøya is such a, well Norwegian target. Completely unknown to foreigners, but an institution in Norway. The youth there were among the future leaders of the labour party, and that means the future leaders of Norway.

I have tried to read some of the "manifesto" of Breivik, but I cannot stomach much of it at a time. All that hatred. It is interesting though, that I recognise a lot of his garbage from ...wikipedia. E.g. I had not heard of one of his great heroins, Bat Ye'or, before I started editing here...he writes that he was in contact with her, something she denies. But people seem to be backtracking quickly these days, Pamela Geller is apparently "going through her archives and scrubbing any violent rhetoric related to Norway, and equally obviously, she’s doing it to cover her tracks."[26] Charming. Huldra (talk) 11:44, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Such a tragedy all those young people (and those older) lost their lives to serve hate. I tend to be more skeptical about lone gunman theories than the two of you though perhaps from watching too many versions of the Manchurian candidate. Tiamut^talk 15:37, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, his background & surrounding are being put under the microscope, so to speak, and nothing so far indicate that he was not alone about doing the acts he did. However, the climate he "grew" in is another matter. It is that "climate of hatred" that we all now try to fight. There is an election coming up in September (for the municipal & local election); it looks now as if the far right party (which he once belonged to) will loose massively,while the Labour party will gain. Naturally. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 15:50, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

I guess its some form of justice that public opinion would turn against what he believed in. About Brewcrewer's interest in my sleeping habits, I wasn't aware ... I wonder if Avi did the CU? If he did, I would have been vindicated as a wiki addict. These days, much less so. I'm even writing today from my inlaws place since I broke my computer yesterday after dropping it twice in a row. Ah well. Tiamut^talk 12:12, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Al-Sinnabra

An article that you have been involved in editing, Al-Sinnabra , has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Sreifa (talk) 05:16, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Merge of Amka and Amqa

There is a currently ongoing merger proposal discussion regarding merging of Amqa article into the previously created article of Amka. According to sources and geographic location we are speaking of different prenounsation of the same place name Amka/Amqa/Amca, the same as Acre/Acco/Akko and Tiberias/Tabariya/Tveriya. As done with other towns/cities, all time periods are listed in one article.Greyshark09 (talk) 18:46, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Ijzim

Hi, I emailed you a good source on Ijzim. Also this article has quite a lot. Zero^talk 22:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I´ve just found out that Mülinen, 1908, is online, so I am trying brush up my German.. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:49, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Huldra. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Metzudat Koach ‎

Hi Huldra,

You know the policy as well as I do: "This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever: ... Discussion about neutrality issues is dormant." Three years is dormant. You know how it is, no one is obliged to make your edits for you. If you think there's something missing in the article, just put it in there. The POV tag is not a badge of shame. Please self-revert. Poliocretes (talk) 09:48, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Most certainly not. The references in that article are a complete disgrace; so it was 3 years ago, and it is not more acceptable today. (After all, there has been a positive trend in Wikipedia to demand academic sources for all articles in controversial areas: do you want to reverse that trend?) Btw, one of the sources used, www.postcardsfromisrael.com is apparently for sale, perhaps I should buy it, fill it with my own junk, and source wikipedia-articles to it ? ;) As for the other main source; http://www.palmach.org.il, one can hardly expect that objectivity is their main aim, to put it diplomatically. I would like to spend some time cleaning up the article myself, but at the moment I have about a zillion other articles to clean up, too. In time... Cheers, Huldra (talk) 11:25, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

The purpose of the POV tag is quite clear. It is meant to attract editors to an ongoing discussion, not to warn them, not as a badge of shame. Suggesting that the tag should remain until you think that it should not be there (whenever that is) is in direct contradiction to Wikipedia policy. Wikipedia is not your personal playground and articles should not wait around for you to grace them with your attention. The discussion is dormant, the tag is stale.

I will not remove the tag, I have not intention whatsoever of edit warring with anyone. I do not disagree with you about the poor state of the article, but I hope you recognize that this is not the way things should be done. No one is going to edit the article for you, and unless you intend to put in the time and fix it, the POV tag should not be there. Poliocretes (talk) 11:59, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

The policy also states that the POV-template can be used to "attract editors with different viewpoints to the article." That is exactly what I wish to do. Certainly nobody can edit the article "for me", but, hopefully, someone else can see the problems and edit it (If I do not have the time). The POV-template should act as a "please edit me"-call. I am glad that you agree with me that the article is in a poor shape. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 12:10, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Disruptive fact tag bombing

Hi Huldra, My impression of you is one of a reasonable editor so I was surprised to see that you tagged a bunch of articles with what seems like random fact templates. I looked through the first few of them and they were clearly unproductive. There were references in the article supporting what was stated and they were just at different sentences. Moreover, some of the fact bomss were in the lede section, and as every editor who actually writes articles on Wikipedia knows, WP:LEAD says to generally avoid cites int the lede. Please discontinue this type of tagging. This pattern of editing usually winds up at AE or ANI (probably not by me) where it is frowned upon by the general community. Best, --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 01:49, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, ok. Brewcrewer, calling an edit vandalism that is not vandalism, as you did here is a personal attack. This pattern of editing usually winds up at AE or ANI where it is frowned upon by the general community. nableezy - 02:49, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

adding an unreferenced tag to an article with seven references is vandalism. stop playing these stupid games. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 02:52, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Whaw, that was a mature response. Eh, but may I again re-iterate the point that two others others have made before me: there is a difference between Wikipedia:External links and Wikipedia:Reference. So, sorry for being pedandic, but your assertion that there were "seven references" is factually wrong.

Also, I have been been reading and re-reading Wikipedia:Vandalism, and the only place I see that my edits could possibly come under is "Abuse of tags". However, my tagging the articles clearly had a positive effect (as was indeed intended!), in that articles (including BLPs) which had been unsourced for weeks or months suddenly within a day became better sourced. (Yeah; apparently I helped create a brand new user, with the telling name RefAdder! Lol! And before I am accused of sock-puppery: I have absolutely no idea as to who it is.) And I do find it rather serious to be accused of vandalism, especially in edit-summaries. So may I remind you of what is considered vandalism, namely Edit summary vandalism: "Making offensive edit summaries in an attempt to leave a mark that cannot be easily expunged from the record.."

Finally; I must admit that I really had not the slightest idea that something which I seriously thought was rather uncontroversial; naming tagging articles in highly controversial area like the I/P-area and BLPs for lacking sources, could bring such a storm in a teacup. Trust me: I will continue to tag (with the hopefully correct Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles)/or remove unsourced material in the future, too, when I see it. If you want me to stop that, you better bring this to AE or ANI or AE at once. I consider the discussion here over. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 06:42, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

There were exactly three references in that article, the only English one for a response by the PA. You need help counting, or is that a bit too stupid of a game? nableezy - 04:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Tag bombing multiple articles that do in fact include references is also something frowned upon by the general community, don't you think? Also, you need to check the external links section. Some pretty high quality refs in there (in English). This is true for most if not all the other articles Huldra tagged bombed today. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 05:26, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I see "tag bombing" is the phrase yall have decided has some meaning, but Ill leave that alone for now. External links are not references. If you would like to understand the difference you can read this and this. The proper response when somebody requests citations is to add the citations. Not make moronic reverts calling a request for inline citations for an article that has almost none "vandalism". nableezy - 14:26, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

To Brewcrewer et al; Firstly: I am astonished that you can call my tagging unproductive, as it spurred TheCuriousGnome, No More Mr Nice Guy etc to add refs, which was quite productive, don´t you think?

Secondly; I think I can say there is a general consensus that the more controversial the information, the better sources are demanded. I find it therefor totally unacceptable that one can go around creating highly controversial content with private, anonymous sources, or no sources at all. And links at the end, is, like Nableezy said, not the same as references.

Thirdly; if you don´t like me tagging anything as unsourced; fine: I will in the future remove it instead. (After all, that is what routinely happens with unsourced material in articles about Palestinian history.) Cheers, Huldra (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Except for the first article I edited, the information was already there in the external links section. Did you even look at that? "Private anonymous sources"? Like the New York Times, Guardian and BBC? Is that what you mean?

Adding a fact tag to every single paragraph in an article is textbook tag bombing. Particularly when there are sources already in the article.

I'd like to ask the community if there are, say, 3-4 high quality sources in the external links section if it acceptable to add a fact tag to every paragraph of the article. Can you recommend a place? No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 20:38, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Um, you do know the difference between external links and references, NMMNG, don't you? — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 20:50, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

By "Private anonymous sources" I mean sources like this. It was that article which alerted me to the fact that one editor had created a lot of articles which were, when I looked at them, either badly sourced, or not sourced at all. Do not expect sympathy from me for all the work you have to do to source every sentence/paragraph: you know perfectly well that is what we who work with Palestinian history always have to do. Why should it be a lower standard for you?

Now, which one of all the Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles I should have used, can be discussed. Perhaps {more footnotes}, or {unreferenced section} are good alternatives. But just linking some articles at the end is not good enough; and I really cannot believe that you are arguing in favour of that?

Now, you can take this discussion anywhere you want. But personally I think that a topic-ban should be considered for editors who go around adding unsourced controversial material to wikipidia anno 2011. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 21:00, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I didn't see that specific article yet, but those I did see had high quality sources in the article, although perhaps not in the right place. I'm guessing you didn't even check considering the amount of time it took you between articles. Spare me the "we who work with Palestinian history" stuff. Whoever wrote those articles added sources to them (and high quality ones at that, from what I saw), only perhaps in the wrong place. That's a technical issue and certainly not something that's a topic ban offense. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 21:09, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Um, I do know that anyone who wanted to verify the information in the article didn't need to go beyond the article to find sources supporting that information. If the problem with the article was that the sources were in the wrong place then a note on the talk page saying so (or the unthinkable of actually moving them up into the body) would have been more appropriate, don't you think? No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 21:09, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, spare me the "so fixit" argument. And I do think I have the right to demand the same standard of others which is demanded of me. And I would not argue a topic-ban for what you call a "technical issue". But I would argue a topic-ban for things like this: here we go, into highly controversial history, and base our information on....a private, unknown website, a web page of health resort ...and yeah: 6 lines of contemporary report for NY Times...which was based on official Israeli (mis)information at the time. This is pure garbage. There is no other word for it. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 21:26, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Like I said above, I didn't see that article. I did see 6 of the, what, 30? articles you tagged, and at least 5 of those had multiple sources in them. I don't really expect you to fix it (I mean why would someone with a "we who work on Palestinian history" attitude bother to move a couple of references up the page rather than just tag bomb it), but one tag on the top or something on the talk page that the references are not in the right place seems much more appropriate, don't you think? No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 21:46, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, I basically work on the 48-villages, and related stuff. That is why I come in contact with the above article. And I am open to the possibility that I might have used wrong template; but I do not agree that it should have been noted on the talk-page; missing sources -templates are always placed on the article. And I am utterly amazed that you (and Brewcrewer?) seem to think that putting some links at the end is just ok. What year are you living in? 2005? Cheers,Huldra (talk) 21:57, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

The articles I saw don't look like '48 villages, they look like attacks against Israelis which you got from a list or template or someone's contribs and then opened randomly, taking 1-2 minutes between tag bombing one article to the next. You didn't even read the sources in the articles, not to mention the "some links at the end". Your "we who edit Palestinian history" statement above shows you did this to make a POINT.

You are absolutely right: the ones I tagged were not about 48-villages. But I came across them, as I checked the latest articles made by the very same editor who had made the garbage-article I mentioned above. (And that article is very much in "my area" of interest) My thinking was, that if an editor can make such utter garbage, it is often a "repeat offence", so to speak. When I checked his (her?) other articles, that was exactly what I found. Including unreferensed BLPs . (Not controversial, AFAIK, but still: creating unreferenced BLPs in 2011!!) Again: I did NOT get them from a template: I looked at which articles this editor had started. You can check for yourself. (Ok: now I guess you will argue that I stalked him, poor thing.) Seriously, stop defending the undefensible. If you produce garbage, you can expect to be watched. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:23, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

After examining a random selection of your edits, I note that in almost all cases inline citations are required by policy. If it isn't convenient to add a citation immediately, a tag is appropriate. Keep up the good work. Zero^talk 08:06, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

That's not policy, that's an essay. As an administrator you should be careful when making such statements. A guideline that might cover this sort of thing is [this]. These are all very short articles. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 08:51, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

You can follow the link to WP:V kindly provided on that page and find that "This policy requires that all quotations and anything challenged or likely to be challenged be attributed in the form of an inline citation that directly supports the material", which obviously applies to most substantial claims of fact in I-P articles. So I won't turn in my administrator badge just yet. Zero^talk 09:24, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, then it goes on to link to WP:Citing Sources which includes the general reference section I posted above. The essay you linked to also includes "Material not supplied by an inline citation may be supported with WP:General references or sources named as inline citations for other material. If you can't find the source of a statement without an inline citation after a good-faith look, ask on the talk page, or request a citation". We know there was no good faith look as the sources were in most of those articles. That you would characterize adding a fact tag at the end of each paragraph to an article that included links to sources supporting the statements as "good work" is quite baffling. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 10:30, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

You complain that I linked to an essay, then you quote the same essay to refute the policy I cite? Good one. Meanwhile, Huldra's record in supplying high quality sources to articles has very very few equals around here. Just think how many inline citations you could have added with the same amount of effort you have expended in this useless thread. Zero^talk 10:39, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Super ridiculous. It was expected that there would be a small apology, something along the lines of, "Sorry, I was having a bad day and did not realize the EL sections contained perfect sources. I will be more careful in the future." Instead we get these immature responses coupled with the circling of the wagons by the usual suspects. I suppose we should no longer be surprised that the usual apologists admins have stepped in with the nonsensical wikilawyering to further enable this type of clear-cut disruptive behavior. An editor outside of this little clique acting in this disruptive manner would have been blocked a long time ago. Now that this silliness was not nipped in the bud, unfortunately some jerk will probably now go to Hudlra'a articles and fact bomb all sentences without citations at the end. I haven't really come across any of his articles (they all appear to be stubs about deserted hovels with no connection to any contributions to greater society), but I'm sure said jerk can find something to fact bomb. Let's see who comes running to his defense. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 15:29, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, the usual suspects are here making spurious claims about the evils of those who, shock and horror, request citations for material in encyclopedia article. These people, who are known to do such things as call the villages of the natives that had been destroyed by European colonists hovels with no connection to any contributions to greater society or call the natives themselves illegal squatters or displaced Jordanians, still have not internalized the simple point that all material that is challeneged requires an in-line citation and that references are not the same thing as external links. And yet, because they fail to understand these basic points, they feel both justified and qualifies to claim that those that do understand these basic points are engaging in nonsensical wikilawyering. It may be nonsensical as it does not make sense to you, but I can ask a group of fourth graders if it makes sense to them. I am fairly confident that they will be able to grasp such a basic concept as add citations when they are requested, dont cry about the person requesting them. nableezy - 16:48, 18 October 2011 (UTC)