User talk:Telex/Archive1

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Hello, Telex, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Nationalist test

Thanks for your input. Drop the socialist myth thing though, these are supposed to be actually true ;) - FrancisTyers 17:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Macedonians

I don't know what nationality you purport to be, but I'm fairly convinced that there was a Macedonian national consciousness prior to Tito. Furthermore I have the non-Macedonian, neutral third party references to show it. Do you? - FrancisTyers 19:08, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

PS. That first appeared on the talk page of User:Hassion who edited your comment. - FrancisTyers 19:08, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, of course that makes your case as watertight as a sieve. - FrancisTyers 19:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

What do I believe with respect to what? - FrancisTyers 19:43, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I think all national ideology is a myth and nationalists are useful idiots. Be it Macedonian, Montenegrin, Bulgarian, Serbian, Greek, Moldovan, Romanian, English, Irish, whatever. Nationalism in the Balkans is quite young, perhaps 200-300 years at max. Bulgarian nationalist ideology is only as legitimate as Macedonian nationalist ideology. - FrancisTyers 19:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

With regard to User:Macedonia et al. No of course I don't believe that crazy nationalist hokum — a nationalist is intellectually compromised. These guys are a perfect example. - FrancisTyers 20:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

...a nationalist is intellectually compromised... How would you describe Bush for example, beside the fact that he's not intellectual...-but if it were...Hmm..maybe is not the best example, let's say Clinton...is he not nationalist? I doubt it, but he covers himselfs....-Hassion 20:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about nationalist, but I'm fairly convinced that both Clinton and Bush are crooks. - FrancisTyers 20:45, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

national ideology is a myth

Interesting. I see now clearly much better. --Hassion 19:54, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

What about European national ideology? Does it exists so far? No. It exists only as german, french, brittish, spanish...national ideology. --Hassion 19:55, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think a European national ideology exists yet. I'm not discounting it for the future though... - FrancisTyers 20:05, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Sign your edits please

Can you add four {Hassion 19:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)} to sign your edits? Would be very appreciated, --Hassion 19:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

3RR

You are in danger of reporting about violating 3RR rule on Macedonian orthodox church. Please discuss why you are deleting important info on the talk page. MatriX 10:54, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad that we resolved this issue. MatriX 13:37, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Me too. Also, I've checked what you asked. Finally, check e-mail... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 15:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Retried. Also, why don't you put smthng in your user-page, so your sig doesn't appear red? NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 15:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I transferred the talk to mine. You can continue there if you want. I'll be absent too, but at least it's with my consent! :-)  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 16:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Cosmopolitan eh

While I remain so far unconvinced, you may like to link to this. Also I added Romanian, enjoy! :) - FrancisTyers 19:09, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm learning Romanian at the moment, I wanted to learn Serbo-Croatian, but I couldn't find anyone to teach me, and a guy on my course offered to teach me Romanian for free, so I accepted. I'm pretty bad at the moment, I probably couldn't have a conversation in Romanian, so I don't think I count as ro-1 yet, probably more like ro-0.33 :) - FrancisTyers 19:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I am also learning Norwegian, so not sure 100% about my part, but will double check it soon, Telex :)). Greetings,Ilir pz 19:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Haha, more like 6! you forgot Zlatiborian and Bunjevac. They don't call it BCSMxyZ for nothing! :) - FrancisTyers 19:22, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

If you speak Albanian I'd love the input on this page :P - FrancisTyers 19:22, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I am Albanian :) you have a confirmed one in your page, Francis :))Ilir pz 19:26, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Some examples of literal translations from other languages:

• Send the borders to hell
• Shit on the border
• Screw the borders
• Send the borders to the devil
• Destroy the borders
• Fuck national borders
• Down with borders
• Death to the borders

Hope that helps :) If not, then basically the phrase is a slogan opposing national borders. - FrancisTyers 19:29, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I just saw what Ilir pz wrote, thanks! :) Does it make sense now? - FrancisTyers 19:29, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, have you never heard a similar expression? Is it possible to express this in Albanian? - FrancisTyers 19:36, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

You made me really sad with your userpage. Usually, there are languages to which I can contribute! Congratulations! Now leave me alone in my sadness! (I'll ask my Filipino house-helper tomorrow and stun you, though!)  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 21:09, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

8a mou perasei...(meta thn filipina)  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 21:17, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Des tis syneisfores mou amesws prin...  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 21:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Siga mhn to afhna!  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 21:32, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

See my comment to Francis' sub-page for nationalism about Americans and Greek-MacSlav nationalism. I'd be glad to have some feedback on this!  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 22:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Filipino: Sorry man, no word for 'cosmopolitan' nor 'nationalist'. It'll have to be spelled out as a definition of each word...It'd fill the page up.  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 20:17, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Tung

Përshendetje Telex. Flm për përkrahjen në artikujt e mëhershëm. Nga je?Ilir pz 20:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

S'ka gjë. Më vjen keq, unë nuk mund të them nga jam ;-( Telex 20:41, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

ou? pse kështu? Ke frike se te demton dikush a?Ilir pz 20:47, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I think...

Your comment was very intelligent and I agree with you on some points. However, I would like to ask you why there are no more Macedonians living in the Greek part of Macedonia. Also, let me ask you why Greece doesn't want Macedonia to be named "Macedonia", even though the whole point of that word is to indicate the land where Macedonians live. Since you proved to me that there are almost no Macedonians in Greek Macedonia, why call it Macedonia? Why not change the name of a province, instead of a country? Why is Greece more important then Macedonia, and who decides that?? --serbiana - talk 22:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I still don't agree with some of your points about Macedonia, but let's just agree to disagree. As far as your userpage is concerned, I'd like to help. Bosnia and Herzegovina is a country that consists of two entities: Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Republika Srpska, so don't put the Federation flag, because thats only one part of Bosnia. If you have further questions, do not hesitate to ask me. :-) --serbiana - talk 23:49, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

You asked for my help, and I never heard from you again. What's wrong? --serbiana - talk 00:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Armenian Genocide memoral

Sure, no problem. Like I said, you're welcome to revert. :) Cheers, —Khoikhoi 09:01, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Dex

http://dexonline.ro/search.php?cuv=distincta&source= --Steaua 13:34, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

http://dexonline.ro/search.php?cuv=distinctiv&source= --bogdan 17:22, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

All right, this isn't helping! Telex 17:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Both versions are ok, so no need to start a fight. :-) bogdan 20:23, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

3RR

I am afraid that your acitons, ilirpz, are agains 3rr. I hope you will refrain. My reasons are properly discussed on talk page. If you have something to add, please join me there, under any of your identities. --Manojlo 15:59, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I know that this may seem hard for you to believe, Manojlo, but I am not User:Ilir pz / ја нисам корисник Ilir pz. Telex 16:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Telex, sorry for the hassle this guy is giving you. I am sure you understand. Ilir pz 20:03, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't mention it :)

---

However, you've missed 2 flags and one of the languages - I'll fix & sign.

I think that adding both Cyrillic and Latin fr some is inevitable. The Montenegrin language officially uses the Cyrillic and then Latin; but in actual usage, the Latin scrypt is much more preferred - and if you place it there, you have to place both versions elsewhere. --HolyRomanEmperor 17:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't mention it. :) I am also alphabetizing 'em. --HolyRomanEmperor 17:47, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm...

So, you are not a nationalist, but you made sure Serbo-Croatian is divided in 25 different languages, according to nations? Rather interesting :) --dcabrilo 17:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

That was User:HolyRomanEmperor's doing [1] I know nothing about Serbo-Croatian and it's ausbausprachen. Telex 18:02, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Uhh, I only added that beacuse those langauges are official. :(

Actually, it's correct - the Latin would be the main, but the Cyrillic would be there side-by-side. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:01, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Montenegro - independent?

The country has been unconstitutionally annexed by the Kingdom of Serbia in 1918 - which was approved by its transitional government. I consider that the Montenegrins and Serbs are one people - and that the life in one Kingdom of Serbia was a good solution. But too many errors were made, expecially which can be seen in the 1920s - too many errors so that Montenegro deserves to be independent once more, so that it gainst the old prestige that it simply ceised to have when it joined Serbia. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:19, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

For instance - the transitional government, the "Great Serbian Assembly of Podgorica" was unconstitutional. Second of all, the annexation entirely deposed Montenegro's dynasty - the House of Njegoš - look what happenned to Nikola I Petrović Njegoš - the longest Serbian ruler in the history. Next, over a million Serbians are of Montenegrin origin. All of Montenegro's effforst in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries were strictly to help Serbia and all Serbs across the world - and how did Serbia pay back to Montenegro? By making it an insignificant part of it, eating its prestige and dethroning the House of Petrović - which had more claims to the unified throne than either the House of Karađorđević or House of Obrenović. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The biggest error was Belgrade's 1920 abolishion of the Patriarchate of Peć - the very thing that the Montenegrins have been fighting for centuries and instead creating the Pan-Serbian Patriarchate in Belgrade. This infuriated the Montenegrins very much, as they had the right for the seat of the Serbian Orthodox Church. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:50, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey

I happened to have read your posting on HRE's discussion page. The Bosnian language can be disputed. However, most Serbs living in Bosnia (some due to free will and others due to nationalistic sentiment) claim that they speak Serbian. It is evident that Serbian uses Cyrillic officially. In Bosnian most Bosniaks and Croatians do not like/are against the use of Cyrillic. Look at it this way, Bosnia and Herzegovina officially recognizes three languages: Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbian. Serbian is the language that uses Cyrllic and that is how people sometimes tend to mix up Bosnian as using cyrllic. Even at the Bosnian Language Wikipedia only the Latin script is used. Cyrllic is not preffered by most Bosnian speakers. I, for instance, along with many Bosnians who had to leave Bosnia due to the war, do not know Cyrllic. Cyrllic does not represent all Bosnian speakers, while Cyrllic represents all Serbian speakers. Cyrllic in Bosnian is used at a minimal, minimal, minimal level, as latin is used at a large, large, larger level. You cannot even compare it close to the countries of Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Russia, Ukraine, etc. It is used a really really low level, and when it is used it is refered to as Serbian.

Thanks, Kseferovic 20:56, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Another thing, look at the article of Bosnian Cyrillic as evidence that cyrllic in the Bosnian language is pretty much extinct.

Fix

I moved the Cyrillic because it's primary for the Serbian language. I replaced the Serbo-Croat flag by the standard Pan-Slavic flag, since the current flag resembles in reality the state of SFRJ, and not the language. I also changed the flag of Montenegro to Montenegrins' popular (national) flag. --HolyRomanEmperor 09:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Invented nationalities???

I don't want to get into discussions about others, but leave the Macedonans alone already. Claims that Macedonians were invented by Tito are ridiculous to any reasonable person. By claiming that you wont change a single Macedonian mind about his ethnicity, you will only help spread balkan nationalistic poison even further. You claim to be a cosmopolitan, not nationalist - but the judgement about what you really are will come not by what you have written about yoursefl, but by what people think about your oppinions. --Realek 21:51, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

If you want to belive it, be my guest. But it's not true that you are not writing it in the articles. You are heavily POV pushing. Please stop it. You can't impose a nationality to me. Your attempts make you look really bad! --Realek 22:00, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Haven't you heard of Rule #1 of the Macedonian editors - discourage all newcomers from engaging into debates related to Macedonia and its history. Because only they know whats going on. FunkyFly 22:03, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, greeks especially know other peoples national feelings best. I should let you FunkyFly choose my nationality right? --Realek 22:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

How about the Macedonians article? --Realek 22:09, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

You didnt write it, but you did revert to this irational position. --Realek 22:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

You are not "mentioning" it, but you are heavily distorting the article and falsifying historic facts. Thank you for your "simpathy" for my view about my nationality, but you, that governor and other similar types don't get to decide about my national feelings. BTW is your claim that you are a cosmopolitan and not a nationalist supposed to be ironic? It surely looks that way. --Realek 22:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

No matter how many accounts you create, you can't hide the truth. --Realek 23:14, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Realek, you cant possibly refer to User:Dipazi or do you? FunkyFly 23:17, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Abdullah

Hi Telex,

What are we going to do about this guy? He's obviously POV-pusing. —Khoikhoi 00:52, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Another user reverted again on Abdullah Öcalan, FYI. Thanks for all the hard work you do here. —Khoikhoi 20:35, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Hehe, according to the discussion at Talk:Greeks you sure are! ;) —Khoikhoi 20:45, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, also take a look at this edit. —Khoikhoi 20:46, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Pontic language

I'm not sure about this situation as Pontic is apparently not mutually intelligible with Greek. I understand it may be considered a dialect by Greeks, but if they can't understand each other, that to me seems to be a different language. Tombseye 20:08, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry about my editing. I'm new to this site so, can you help me?205.202.85.5 13:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Please help

Hi Telex,

Could you please help me out over on the Adana and Ardahan pages? Much appreciated, —Khoikhoi 14:28, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Flm telex. S'di shume per artikullin Adana. Cfare ndihme ke nevoje? Ilir pz 21:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

:)) ky qe po te pengojka, qenka ndalu. Po ma thuaj cfarë ane mbron ti? Ky kundërshtari shtuaka dicka per sulmet armene, mirepo perdorka gjuhe paksa agresive. Ky eshte problemi apo?!Ilir pz 21:46, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Semiprotection

Hi Telex. Did you semi-protect Vlachs? I'm asking because if you did, I have to inform you that I believe only administrators can semi-protect articles. --Aldux 16:02, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry Telex, I should have controlled better :-( Please accept my apologies.--Aldux 19:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

3RR stuff

Sweet. :D —Khoikhoi 01:47, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

P.S. - we should really try to stop talking to Inanna & Bonaparte. Have you seen this? —Khoikhoi 01:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Macedonia Poll

Ευχαριστώ :-) TheArchon 09:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Δε νομίζεις ότι κάτι λείπει απ' όλα τα άρθρα; Αν δεχθούμε, κατ αρχάς, ότι το άρθρο πρέπει να δείχνει (α) πώς αναφέρεται η χώρα από τους διεθνείς οργανισμούς (fYRoM & RoM) και (β) πώς αναφέρεται από τους κατοίκους (RoM), τότε δεν πρέπει να υπάρχει και η Αλβανική ονομασία; Στο κάτω-κάτω αναγνωρισμένη γλώσσα είναι... (btw, I am assuming that you know Greek, but if you are not comfortable with it, we can switch to English -either way, your posting a message in Greek was much appreciated) TheArchon 09:58, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

O dhmiourgos tou grafei panw-panw 30 Apriliou, alla mporei na epekta8ei an den yparxei ka8aro apotelesma. Kalo mhna!  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 13:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Montenegrin independence...

...last polls say 57% of the population will vote for independence. --HolyRomanEmperor 10:13, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Den trabas kana sxolio edw giati nomizw oti o typos mas douleuei ekei?  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 13:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Interesting... btw Telex are you an Arvanite? I hope you aren't offended by my question, but you seem to speak Greek and Albanian -- which points toward it. Although equally you could just be an Albanian in Greece. Don't feel obliged to respond if you would prefer to keep your ethnicity private. Regards :) - FrancisTyers 14:20, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. I'd tend to discount the fourth one though. - FrancisTyers 14:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Sadly I don't speak Albanian. I intend to do a stub for the Romanian wiki though. - FrancisTyers 15:07, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Btw, you might be interested in the article I started on Human rights in the Republic of Macedonia :) - FrancisTyers 15:31, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Metb82 comment

I'm not sure what your intention was here, but I don't think this comment was neccisary or polite. --InShaneee 16:44, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

You're probably right. It was more of a childish retaliation to having been reverted with rollback [2]. I hate it when people do that. Telex 16:49, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, just try to steer clear of that type of thing in the future. :) --InShaneee 16:51, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but it was far more polite than some of the things Metb82 gets away with. He shouldn't have said it...but I can't blame him. Englishrose 20:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Your page in Bulgarian

It should be "Здравейте, имам само една отличителна черта: космополит съм, а не националист." — word order is somewhat different in Bulgarian in that case. Besides, I believe "гражданин на света" is the way most people would say "cosmopolitan", although the word "космополит" exists with the same meaning — it's just a bit less popular. Greetings from Bulgaria :) → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 18:36, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

They are, but this is one of them :) → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 19:01, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic minorities in Greece

Good edits, although the ECRI thing is a quote and not something that Amnesty International is saying. I guess you'd have to check out the pages I'm really happy with to see if I write neutrally or not, viz. Mythical origins of language, Leprechaun, History of machine translation, Sudanese literature. I do tend to knock up a lot of stubs in a hurry when I see they are missing. And being told to edit in an NPOV manner by someone who cites this is pretty funny :P - FrancisTyers 21:38, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

You're a nice guy Telex. I'm glad that editors like you exist. Miskin 22:03, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I was being serious. Just a general remark on your neutral editing behaviour. Miskin 22:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not being sarcastic, nor I am referring to a specific edit. I'm being sincere. Miskin 22:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

The link you put in the talk page (e-grammes.gr) is from a nationalist organisation (Elliniko Metopo). Although I marginally agree with this article, I do not consider their general views mainstream in any way. Too far-right for my taste. --   Avg    23:12, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Falemnderit / Thank you

Të falemnderoj nga zemra per medaljen. Do ta vë në faqen time të parë, ne shenje rrespekti. Shpresoj te kontribuojme se bashku ne te ardhmen. (transl. I thank you from my heart for the awarded medal. I will therefore put it in my front page, in sign of respect for you. Hope to contribute together further in the near future) Ilir pz 22:41, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

United Nations: I award you this flag to you, Telex, for your Cosmopolitan attitude

Ilir pz 00:00, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

World citizen: I award you this flag to you, Telex, to support your cosmopolitan ideas

23:56, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Sapo e zmadhova sa tjerat, dikush po e zvogelon shenjen e boshnjakeve ne faqen tende kryesore. Nese nuk zmadhohet ajo steme nuk po shihet. Ilir pz 00:35, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

e paske hequr komplet shenjen e boshnjakeve? më shto ne msn ilirpz(at)hotm, po deshe. Ilir pz 09:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok e zmadhova, po pasi eshte faqe jotja personale nuk e bera para se me te pyete. Perndryshe nese dikush ta demton ate ke drejte me kerku llogari. Ilir pz 01:02, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Përshendetje Telex, mos ke gje burime/sources ta permiresojme kete artikull, se ka citime te tmerrshme, disa nga te cilat i shkrova ketu: Talk:Demographic_history_of_Kosovo#Relevancy_of_citations. Thanks in advance. Ilir pz 10:34, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

articles on Albanians

You are welcome to contribute.

• Albanians in Kosovo
• Albanians in the Republic of Macedonia
• Albanians in the Republic of Montenegro
• Albanians in the Republic of Serbia

Best, Ilir pz 01:39, 3 May 2006 (UTC

Flm per ndihmen gjithandej, Telex. Keep up with good work. Ilir pz 21:18, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

A friendly reminder, don't feed the troll:

Nobody has asked your opinion.Mind your own business...

You must have "Turkish Blood" to have Turkish specialties.So it's impossible... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.102.254.195 (talk • contribs) 16:55, 3 May 2006

Don't you know what you are?

Cause i said what Shakespeare told about jews and i've deleted anyone's comment by mistake.But the real reason is that i know so much things...

I've started the show realities about armenian genocide and intrigues of jews(not to articles).If you criticize those issues, well you will be banned for sure...

Please do not feed the troll

Welsh Wikipedia

I don't, but I went to University in Wales (University of Wales Aberystwyth) and I have friends that do. :) - FrancisTyers 17:07, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, so it was :) I'll put it on the talk page and see what people think. - FrancisTyers 17:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I heard that too! - FrancisTyers 17:53, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Cosmopolitan

A cosmopolitan normally wouldn't push an Albano-Greek agenda :) It seems like people are accusing you of that. HRE has some different ideas about Serbian history which happen to coincide with certain nationalist views, which is probably why he gets called a nationalist. On Wikipedia you tend to find people who self-identify as "cosmopolitan" have something to hide ;) Sometimes it is harmless, sometimes not. - FrancisTyers 18:03, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for the offense, but you did ask ;) It's easy to be NPOV on matters that don't concern you, e.g. home rule in Greenland, harder on issues closer to home. Sure, we all strive for NPOV, but some strive harder than others. Like many "cosmopolitans", your biases have given you away :)) And sure I have an agenda, an anti-nationalist agenda, I'm happy to state it up front though — I have no need for smoke and mirrors. - FrancisTyers 18:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Where are you getting your Welsh translation from btw? I am (for the purposes of transparency) getting my friends to translate. How about you, I presume you aren't a native speaker (although feel free to correct me), do you have friends that speak Welsh or are you using a dictionary/grammar reference or online translation? Btw, I find that version much better, why was it reverted? And no you aren't neutral, you think that you are neutral ;) Subtle difference :) - FrancisTyers 18:42, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll ask around for a translation for that. In the meantime, that version isn't very good as it contains factual flaws. Macedonia is not "internationally recognised" as fYROM, it just so happens that some countries and international organisations use that name to refer to the country. - FrancisTyers 18:55, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I added those languages back, I added the names of Greece in various minority languages to Portal talk:Greece, would you be so kind as to add them into the article. And if you are trying to say that those aren't what minorities in Greece call it, then by all means prove otherwise :) Those are the literary standards for the dialects spoken in Greece. Which is exactly what we have for the Macedonian portal :) - FrancisTyers 20:01, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thank you for warning me! Bomac 17:25, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

What makes you think I am denying that? I don't deny facts. You can't judge the denial by the languages that are spoken in R. Macedonia. Bomac 17:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Why?!? Bomac 19:35, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Nope, I'm not telling you unless you tell me why? You know, WH- question? Bomac 19:41, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Ahaaa... No, I don't want privacy. Грк (Grk) is the name for a Greek in Macedonian. Bomac 20:16, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure that there will be no problems with the ,,Macedonian"? Do you think it will be converted into South Slavic or smt.? I'm sceptical. Bomac 20:27, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure am sceptical... Miskin usually speaks about territorial pretensions towards Greece when mentioning Macedonian language... Bomac 20:44, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I knew that where Greece is involved you can't be so cosmopolitaneous... Anyway, the sentence ,,Jas sum kosmopolit. Zatoa, e nevozmozhen da sum Grk ili neshto drug." is gramatically correct like this: ,,Jas sum kosmopolit. Zatoa e nevozmozhno da sum Grk ili neshto drugo", that is: ,,Јас сум космополит. Затоа е невозможно да сум Грк или нешто друго.". Notice that comma is redundant. Bomac 21:01, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

ABSOLUTELY! Well, that's the benefit of being a Slav (with Ancient Macedonian roots ;-)) Bomac 21:36, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

You can't be a cosmopolitan ;-)

And - Спасиба, Телекс! Здравствуй! Gosh, I know a bit of Русский! And a bit of Українська! Bomac 21:44, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Polish and Czech - hmmm, not quite, but I can understand it. There are many same or similar words with Macedonian. Old Church Slavonic - hey do I look like a priest to you? Bomac 21:50, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Yup ;-) BTW, don't you know that one of the rare things that makes Macedonians and Greeks the same is the eastern orthodoxy and Easter? Or maybe I'm wrong? Bomac 22:02, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Hahahaha... Bomac 22:12, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Too many different peoples on such a tiny space... Simply nationalism is boiling in their hot-heads... And it can be much better... Bomac 22:17, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I guess you're right... BTW, it's night here in Macedonia and I'm so sleepy. I guess I'm going to sleep now... Crzzzrsrzzcrzz... No, I sleep normally. I don't snore... Bomac 22:28, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Faliminderit! Përshëndetje (I hope I didn't said smt. wrong) Bomac 22:34, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

More help...

Hey again. Could you help me out on the Batman, Turkey and Batman Province pages? I have to go now. —Khoikhoi 19:30, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not Bonaparte

I'm not Bonaparte. I was just reporting a suspected open proxy (217.11.42.142) that appears to be used by Bonaparte to evade his ban. If you think that constitutes me being Bonaparte, your thought process is most likely wrong. --69.117.7.84 19:56, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Donate in Turkish

I'm gonna write your quote in Turkish...here it comes:

"Selam, benim sadece tek bir ayırt edici karakterim var: Ben bir kozmopolitanım, milliyetçi değil."

Accept the Turkish version from someone other than a racist troll. :p BTW, if you're interested in the real reason she got banned, check this out. —Khoikhoi 23:50, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

LOL, I already got that translated. ;) —Khoikhoi 23:53, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's ridiculous. And now they're trying to remove an article about Armenian presence in Adana. [3] *Sigh* Yeah man, Inanna's coming! Boo! ;) —Khoikhoi 00:26, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

From anon

To Telex:

Freedom of speech is different from spreading of FYROM propaganda. When someone claims that the "original macedonian name of Thessaloniki" is "Solun", a name used for thousands of years now (he doesn't even know how this compound word was formed), it doesn't show ignorance; it's intentional. Please help to remove propaganda, if you're more familiar with Wikipedia and it's "policies" (I'm all in for different political views, theories and history translations, but I won't allow it to continue like that). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.202.74.190 (talk • contribs)

Russo-Turkish War

I made a contribution, sourced it, and made a comment in the talk page. It was then reverted, so i reverted it back and asked for an explanation, other than a superficial one such as propaganda, in the talk page. WP advocates the use of the talk page to work through issues, however nobody seems to use it in this case. Due to this attitude i continue to revert, and am now threatened with banning? If my edit is so blatantly biased, how hard is it to prove to me in the talk page? Anything less is just childish.Suicup 13:21, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok but Byzantine and Modern Greek (other than Athenian or standardised) spells it "πόλην". I don't see where Ancient Greek fits into Istanbul's etymology. Miskin 17:22, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

It is like that. "Από την Πόλην έρχομαι την αστραποκαμένην" as the poem says. Anyway we can leave it as it is, it's not important. Miskin 19:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Where are you from? Miskin 19:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

{{fact}}

Also, please don't delete {{fact}} templates. It's Wikipedia policy (see WP:V) to mark any dubious statements with those until a reliable source is found supporting them. Happy editing, Telex 13:56, 6 May 2006 (UTC).

Is it wikipedia policy to paste {{fact}} templates every where just because you don't like an article. Please have a look at where i removed the templates before making such comments. Bretagne 44 14:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I've seen them, no sources are cited, there is no proof that they are true. That is why they should be marked. Telex 14:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you go and look for the sources then, it would be a lot more constructive. Mmm, i like this template thing, i can just march around wikipedia and put them where ever i want because most quotes have no citations, so where should i start? Bretagne 44 14:03, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

The burden of proof is on you (or whoever want to include the dubious information) - see Wikipedia:Verifiability#Burden_of_evidence. Telex 14:04, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

You can start wherever you want. If you think I'm lying to you, feel free to ask at the help desk. Telex 14:08, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

No but I think you politics cloud your judgment. For example a citation template on the “The constitutional status of Cornwall, in the southwest of Great Britain, is the subject of ongoing debate ”.!?

Apart from providing links to pressure groups who question the constitutional status of Cornwall it also contains information on the Cornish foreshore case which witnessed the Duchy itself take the crown to court concerning the status of Cornwall, yet a citation is still need for this statement.

The there is “The Kilbrandon Report (1969–1971) into the British constitution recommends that, when referring to Cornwall official sources should cite the Duchy not the County. This was suggested in recognition of its constitutional position ”.

The citation is the Killbrandon report, oh la la!

The we have this classic already discussed on the Cornish people page “Cornishmen and women continued to regard themselves as descendents of Corineus until well into the early modern period.”

How about Dr Mark Stoyle, West Britons, Cornish Identities and the Early Modern British State; chap 1 page 13. ISBN 0 85989 688 9, University Of Exeter Press.

Come on try and learn about the subject before you get involved.

Bretagne 44 14:27, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

No but I think you politics cloud your judgment. For example a citation template on the “The constitutional status of Cornwall, in the southwest of Great Britain, is the subject of ongoing debate ”.!?

Apart from providing links to pressure groups who question the constitutional status of Cornwall it also contains information on the Cornish foreshore case which witnessed the Duchy itself take the crown to court concerning the status of Cornwall, yet a citation is still need for this statement.

• As far as I know, the government is not debating anything. Telex 14:31, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

The there is “The Kilbrandon Report (1969–1971) into the British constitution recommends that, when referring to Cornwall official sources should cite the Duchy not the County. This was suggested in recognition of its constitutional position ”.

The citation is the Killbrandon report, oh la la!

• Are those the exact words of the report, or a Cornish regionalist POV interpretation. It would be nice if we could get our hands on the exact words. Telex 14:31, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

The we have this classic already discussed on the Cornish people page “Cornishmen and women continued to regard themselves as descendents of Corineus until well into the early modern period.”

How about Dr Mark Stoyle, West Britons, Cornish Identities and the Early Modern British State; chap 1 page 13. ISBN 0 85989 688 9, University Of Exeter Press.

• Say then: According to Dr Mark Stoyle in his book West Britons, Cornish Identities and the Early Modern British State, Cornishmen and women... Telex 14:31, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Come on try and learn about the subject before you get involved.

Bretagne 44 14:27, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Replied. Telex 14:31, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

1) Is it only the government that can debate such issues, thats news to me? Are you denying the existence of the Cornish foreshore case?

2) Yes they are the exact words, go read the report.

3) Feel free to make this change.

Bretagne 44 14:38, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Re:Huh?

Yes, double standards. First you say is accurate and then you don't agree with it. C'mon, admit that when the issue is Greece/Macedonia, your ,,cosmopolity" dissapears and turns into POV. Bomac 15:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

And I am the most nationalistic Macedonian user? Maybe, that's because I give my oppinion? Or maybe that you can't even think of other people's opinion, so everything looks to you like nationalism? Bomac 16:17, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Ah, sure, sure. Wonder how did you guessed that ? Bomac 16:22, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Macedonians (ethnic group)

I'd just saved my comment as you made the note on my talk page :) - FrancisTyers 18:12, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Poll

Kαιρε Telex :-) First, let me say that you were right about the tag; I shouldn't have removed, and I promise I'll try to be a good boy from now on ;-) As for the poll, there was one that took place some time ago; it was before I started editing this page, so I thought it was the reason behind the present name. I've given a look at the poll and it was a draw; as you said, it was an arbitrary move by a user. The non-balkan editors judged that adding the parenthesis (ethnic group) would have beem a sufficient guarantee, and as such moved it to its present location. Ciao--Aldux 17:47, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

There were old remembrances of my school Greek ;-) if I remembered correctly, kaire/kairete was the latin vale/valete, i.e. greetings, with the particular accent (don't remember how it's called in English, and my keyboard doesn't have Greelk accented words). But anyway, if you know this, so do I, since we're both socks of the same guy [4] ;-) --Aldux 18:18, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Macedonians (ethnic group)

Instead of using negations - "non Slavic", why dont you just put "greek speaking". That sure will stir the waters. FunkyFly 19:49, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Because it is unanimously agreed that the ancient Macedonians didn't speak Slavic. While the majority view is that they spoke the Doric Greek dialect some (mostly Macedonian Slav) scholars have proposed that they spoke an independent Indo-European language, probably Illyrian. The fact that there is ample evidence to the contrary (eg their contemporary historians, Herodotus and the Pella katadesmos) doesn't dampen their spirits. Of course, we know that in Skopje, they don't like ancient inscriptions such as the Pella katadesmos and the Bitola inscription ;-) Telex 19:54, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

If there is a lot of evidence for it, it should be easily sourced. I guess it has to be done first in Ancient Macedonian language. FunkyFly 19:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

There's just no real scholarly consensus. It's one of those things no one really knows (since the 1900s). There is very little remains of this language as few written documents have survived so no one can know for sure that it was Greek (like on Talk:Goce Delchev, existing facts are denied). I have explained on the talk page that it is agreed by historians that by year zero, they all spoke Attic Greek by cultural assimilation (despite what is written at User:Makedonec), the dialect of Athens, so they ended up speaking Greek whatever they initially spoke (Doric Greek or Illyrian), so "Greek speaking" may be accurate. The Slavs came 500 years later, so all they found in Macedonia were Greek speakers (and others, Vlachs etc), quite unlike the thesis put forward by User:Macedonia and Bomac, that they found the ancient Macedonians and mixed and formed the Macedonian nation, just like the Slavs found the proto-Bulgars and mixed and formed the Bulgarian nation. Knowledge of history = 0. Telex 20:08, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually the proto-Bulgars found the Slavs in the 6-7th century. But I see your point. I guess it's a matter of definition where does antiquity really end for the language, when the country of Macedon ceased to exist or later. FunkyFly 20:11, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

The point is that if the ancient Macedonians are still regarded as ancient Macedonians in 1 AD, then (eventually) Greek speaking is accurate. Telex 20:16, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, darling! ;)

You have yahoo?

I'm talking about messenger.

Hmm...anyway.

Question

Could you please check the image Image:Bulgarian postmark.jpg and tell me whether you believe the claimed GFDL. Did the user create the stamp - I'm not sure which licence goes on stamps, but I don't think that's the one. User:Pulvis angelus and his alter ego Vlatkoto seem to slap copyright tags on randomly. Telex 23:20, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I've replaced it with {{stamp}}, which seems reasonable. Stifle (talk) 23:22, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

AHA, and why is that so

I have realy different odpinion than yours, i agree not with, european union is darkend by "Greek democracy". It's raely a sad story. Shame on you and your land, How can you be so blind. Vlatko 02:18, 07 May 2006 (UTC)

Ding dong!. Too late, I already blocked him :) - FrancisTyers 00:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Ohrid Agreement

Could you take a look at the stub I started on the Ohrid Agreement please... I'm fairly sure I've made some mistakes and would like someone who actually knows about it to review it. - FrancisTyers 00:30, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

You have an email as well. --   Avg    10:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

we simply expulse them, just like you did to us

Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia are illegally occupying Macedonia, with the expiration of the Bucharest treaty in 2012, all Macedonians rise up and take back what is rightfully ours.

so please stop posting on my talk page, cause i dont want any more propaganda on it, go post your crap on some greek usa school website.

i have just this to say.

1-Wich country in the world is called and known as Macedonia?? that's right, The republic of Macedonia;)

2- Wich Language in the world is called and known as Macedonian?? that's right, the language of the Republic of Macedonia, the one you call "Slav dialect" ;)

3- Wich People in the world are called and known as Macedonians?? that's right, the real macedonians in Republic of macedonia, aegean macedonia and pirin macedonia, not the greeks ;)

4- How is Alexander the great and Filip II Called and known in the world?? that's right, as Alexander of Macedonia, the Macedonian, and Filip of Macedonia, every man & historian call them Macedonians or of Macedonia, not Alexander of Greece. ;)

5- With what nation in the world is the Sun of Kutlesh(vergina) Known?? that' right, with the real macedonians in Republic of macedonia, aegean macedonia and pirin macedonia, not the greeks ;)

so conclusion, we are known as macedonians, alexander is known as macedonian and everything is about us is known as macedonian, real macedonian, not greeks. so you can discuss, demonstrate, lobby and try to collect proof as much as you want my friend, but it has no sense, we are known as macedonians and all we have all our history is known as macedonian, the world already made up his own mind. and you or any other propagandic so called Greek can nothing do about it, you could in the past and you did and somewhere even succeeded, but that time is over. the truth is coming out, every day more and more, and the greeks are looked ashamed every day more and more. Gia Mas ! and take a Ouzo to soften your suffering, cause from now one the greeks will suffer only more and more.

oh yeah and you know what? Greeks have problems with Macedonia, Turkey, Bulgaria and Albania. problem with everyone, and you keep blaiming them, why dont you just start looking for the problem at yourself, you make problems with everyone, the only country in the EU. so i think and its obvious you are the ones with a big problem and you are to be blaimed. dont you think you are the ones who are wrong?? since you have problems on 4 fronts?? --Makedonia 11:53, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Man that was pure... I think I'll actually save it in my hard disk for a good laugh in a bad day. --   Avg    12:02, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

oooh so you are a B(v)ulgari haha, well you and greeks are the same though, both nations from Asia or africa, god knows where you all come from.

but it doesnt matter, lets just stop posting on eachothers pages, it makes no sense, i cant change your mind and you can not change mine. lets just mind our own bussines then. maybe this will be the only thing you will agree with me, if you are open minded, i hope so. greetings --Makedonia 12:05, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah you should, AVG --Makedonia 12:05, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Why I have again the strange feeling that we have already met many times in the past (under other user names of course):) Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I'm just curious. However, you doesn't have to answer this, I just wanted to say what I mean...MatriX 12:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Macedonian language

Christ, I just read above o______O - FrancisTyers 15:24, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

In response to your question, see my note on the talk page. - FrancisTyers 15:24, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Macedonains (Slavs)

Don't you think that a poll would be a good idea for the issue? And why did you redirected Macedonians (ethnic group) to disambig.? Bomac 20:26, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a problem, just I really think this is unnecessary and redundant. I mean, everybody knows that Macedonians (ethnic group) are Slavs. For the ancient people, everybody uses the term "Ancient Macedonians", even Greeks ;-) (+ know that they weren't Slavs). That's why I think Macedonians (ethnic group) is more acceptable in the first place. Bomac 20:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

So, this is smt. like The world vs. Greeks? BTW, are you sure that there are only Greeks who are misleaded with this term? 'Caus my friend Yanis certainly doesn't gets misleaded... I've told you, everybody looks Ancient Macedonians in antiquity. Bomac 20:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Poll

I've put an example poll on the page, I welcome your comments. - FrancisTyers 21:08, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't know

I once met a Greek guy who told me "Albanians, they're all criminals you know". I don't know what would be better for the purposes of the poll probably Albanian, but to be honest if it seems like there is obvious nationalistic vote stacking I may well include Albanian/Bulgarian into the partisan mix. Think about it this way, Greece has 11 million people, Macedonia has 2 million people, why doesn't Greece just vote Macedonia out of existence ? :)) - FrancisTyers 22:20, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanx!

Quick work, Telex! I had barely finished typing my complaint -- did you really respond to that?? Thank you so much either way. Regards, ImpuMozhi 23:00, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

He reverts my edits just for spite, no rhyme or reason, page and topic be damned. Every such bout of vandalism takes time, sometimes hours, to repair. Partha rathore was not the worse, by any means. Thank you for reverting his revertions also. Regards, ImpuMozhi 23:06, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Λυπάμαι

Που δεν μάρκαρα και τα υπόλοιπα που έγραψε - δεν τα είχα προσέξει. talk to +MATIA 11:07, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

MetroStar

I added some greek names.I did it because i saw greek places such as Thassos,Kastelorizo and others having turkish names.Why was that?Is turkish an official language in thassos or kastelorizo?I added greek in Istanbul because the city was greek,greeks live there and even the name of the city is greek (istanbul=is tin polin ,in the city).I did he same to izmir and trabzon for the same reasons.

Bitola

Just a quick note, I think your additions are ok, but the references incomplete, please add full bibliographic entries to the references part, or is that the other way round, full reference to the bibliography? - FrancisTyers 20:52, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it is full bibliography in the bibliographic entries, or full references in the references. NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 20:56, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

You're no fun :( Telex -- it looks better now. Give me a shout if he reverts again. - FrancisTyers 21:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Me no fun?

 NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 21:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

File:Revolver Enfield No2 Mk I.jpg

. I like those icons FunkyFly 22:37, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, I would like to go to sleep (this is a really long night, I think you would agree). Please see the current Bitola version and tell me if it is OK for you. MatriX 23:18, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, see you tommorow:) MatriX 23:20, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Sostos, to eixa sta yp'opsin na bro kati antistixo. Oso gi auto pou mou eipes peri 'enomenis makedonias', ouden sxoleion. Kathenas me tin trella tou. Miskin 00:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Useful?

In 1903, Noel Brailsford, a British journalist, met in Ochrid (medieval Achris), near the Byzantine ruins, a group of Slav-speaking village boys. When he asked them whether they knew who had built those ancient constructions, they replied: "The free men, our ancestors." "Were they Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks or Turks?" asked the journalist. The boys responded: "No, they were not Turks, they were Christians."

Duncan M. Perry, in his study, The Politics of Terror. The Macedonian Revolutionary Movements 1893-1903 (Durham and London, 1988), p. 22.

Nationalism and stuff between Greeks/Slavomacedonians/Bulgarians/Serbs appears to exist only in certain people's minds... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 11:12, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Very useful, indeed... Bomac 21:18, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Macedonians

Hi Telex :-) The problem is that you give too much importance to my opinion; I only attempt to propose a view that can be accepted as verifiable and reasonable by all moderate editors of both parts. That these edits are correct, or reflect my personal POV (all of us has one); it's for this that a molteplicity of editors help producing better articles. Also, if I edit you, you shouldn't take this as a critical judgement of your work; far from this, I appreciate immensely the work you're doing for furthering NPOV in areas so conflictual as the Balkans and Turkey. Ciao, Aldux 13:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind that. But still (for the sake of clarity), can you cite some kind of a source that those Greek people call themselves Macedonians (you know, in ordinary life etc.)? Bomac 21:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Okey-dokey ;-) Bomac 21:33, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello Bomac, hello Telex. You may see this example. Quote: "Οι Μακεδόνες και οι Ηπειρώτες απόδημοι στη Βαλκανική Χερσόνησο, με τη σκληρή τους εργασία και το επιχειρηματικό τους πνεύμα, κατόρθωσαν να αποκτήσουν τεράστια χρηματικά ποσά" translation:"The Macedonians and the Epirots emigrants in the Balkan Peninsula, with their hard work and their bussiness spirit, achieved in acquiring enormous fortunes". I hope that Bomac will relay that, to any friend of his who has the same question. Take care! talk to +MATIA 07:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Make an archive page

Hi Telex. You should really think about making an archive page. Your talk page is 63 kb long. It shouldn't be like that. To see how to archive a page, go to Wikipedia:How to archive a page. Bye. CrnaGora (Talk/Contribs/E-mail/Edit Count) 21:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Hunyadi

It seems that User:Greier thinks he is smart if he introduces his "material" as text already in there (in an attempt to have me banned for 3RR, I guess), and then signs in as an IP to introduce the same change with a slightly different wording. Is it time to call for the banning of Greier (who also, btw, has erased the countless warnings and short-period bans he has received in the past)? Dahn 12:18, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. Dahn 12:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Macedonia (terminology)

Hey man, can I get your input on the talk page regarding the map I added? - FrancisTyers 12:27, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the invitation about Macedonia (terminology), as soon as I find some time I will join the club:) MatriX 13:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Hehehe. "The Vampires of the Greek Church". Poly mou arese auto. Miskin 17:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Eisai autos pou nomizo me allagmeno onoma? Miskin 17:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Pomaks

Hi Telex. Do you know anything about the Pomaks, or simply have any interest in the argument? Because there would be a question regararding them that should be resolved, only I'm afraid to generate a mass revolt by Bulgarian editors. There are at present two articles, Pomaks and Muslim Bulgarians, which must be merged, as they speak exactly of the same thing. The question is the title: scholarship and good sense wood make me opt for Pomaks, as it's overwhelingly used in pubblications and the web, while the Bulgarians will certainly want Muslim Bulgarians. Honestly, I'm not certain I want to give start to a possible dispute, so also for this I wanted to hear you first. Opinions? Ciao!--Aldux 18:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about Bulgaria, but in Greece, Pomaks view themselves as Turks speaking a "Pomak language" always in addition to Turkish. I was thinking of starting an article on Pomaks (Greece) and translating the Greek article el:Πομάκοι (which has more info than the article here). Telex 18:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I just read this report, it's quite interesting. As for the article you were thinking about, why don't we just make a section on the Pomaks in Minority groups in Greece?--Aldux 21:16, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe. I've read that report before. We could discuss them at Islam in Greece as well. What I'm concerned about is where to list them at Minority groups in Greece - in the Slavic speaking section (they speak Slavic) or in the Turkish section (they speak Turkish and identify as Turks). Telex 21:26, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking of something like a distinct sub-section in the Slavophone section; we could also divide the Slavophone section in two, one for Christian Slavophones, another for Muslim Slavophones (Pomaks).--Aldux 21:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok. Thanks for the information. But I cannot help but notice that you are awfuly experienced in wikipedia for a newbie. Assuming good faith I will go no further with this... --Realek 20:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Miladinovi Brothers

Then you should make an effort to fix all the articles of greeks born during the time Greece was under Ottoman rule. Greece also didn't exist then. --Realek 21:28, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Can you give an example. Telex 21:32, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

You see Theodoros Kolokotronis was born in the Ottoman Empire and it just says the location of birth and region, not Greece. As far as I know, it's that way in all others. Telex 21:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Apart from that, Greece and ethnic-Greeks existed before that, were occupied and re-liberated. On the other hand, you, did not exist (at least as an autonomous entity) and you appeared later. Ok?  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 21:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I feel confident to qualify your statemant as fascisoid. You are welcomed to report me for personal attack. Then we will also clear what right do you have to throw this and many more different kinds of insults towards Macedonians and why should such behaviour from many Greek editors be tolerated in Wikipedia. --Realek 22:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Yawn... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 22:04, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

You yawn quite often lately niko. It confirms what I said: maybe it's a lack of oxigen or maybe you're tired and sleepy. Either way it explains the irational things you are writing. --Realek 22:26, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Yawn... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 22:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

A Macedonian ethnicity seperate from Bulgarians didn't exist. You see, the ancient Macedonians spoke a Doric dialect of Greek, so when Attic Greek (Koiné, based on the dialect of Athens) became the official language of the state, it was very easy for them to ajust to it and assimilate into the dominant Koine Greek speaking society (that's how by year zero, they all spoke Koine Greek and were indistinguishable from all other Greeks). This is what happened to the Macedonians, they initially spoke a regional dialect of Bulgarian, a Macedonian language was invented based on that dialect, but with a bunch of foreign words, so it was easy for them to assimilate into the dominant "Macedonian" speaking society. Telex 21:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Same goes to you Telex. Nobody cares for the falsified history they teach in Greek schools. You don't get to decide what Macedonians "really" are! You don't get to decide what the name of my country/people/language is! And this theory that Macedonians were invented in 1945 is so irational and ridiculous (furthermore all that allegedly took place overnight and was done planned and organised by one man; plus how come people in their 70s 80s 90s have no recolection today of this massive ethnicity change) and you are inteligent enough to know it. Your motives why you keep pushing this so-called theory are completely different matter. --Realek 22:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Um, Realek, I don't care what your name is. As far as I'm concerned, the naming dispute is a waste of time. Either way, your country's name will contain the word "Macedonia" in some form or other, so as far as I'm concerned, the whole affair ends there. I couldn't care less about the minutiae. What I do object to is falsifications of history - the claim that the Yugoslav Macedonians were created by Tito is one way out of many of explaining their years of silence. An additional issue I oppose are land claims to Greek Macedonia or falsifications regarding its ethnic composition. Officially, there are no Slavs in Greek Macedonia - unofficially, the local authorities have acknowledged c. 100,000 Slavic speakers (see GHM), the vast majority of them being Greek-identifying and want to have nothing to do with R. Macedonia or any other neighbouring country (they are what you refer to as "Grkomani"). A minority of them identify as Bulgarians and a similar minority identify as Macedonians (Yugoslav variety), presumably due to propaganda coming from across the border. The Vinozhito-Rainbow, amassed 3,000 votes in Macedonia in the latest elections. I'm inclined to assume that the number of Macedonians, not Slavophone Greeks or Bulgarians, is something similar. Don't get me wrong, I'm all into minority rights. I'm of Arvanite descent, or to use the parallel, Albanophone Greeks. As for the ancient Macedonias, I'll quote a human rights organization actually, it's www.hri.org, not www.hrw.org, I got them mixed up. Might as well read it anyway. It'll be more enlightening than what those makedonija.org site say [5]: both the evidence of the sources and the study of the linguistic material, lead to the conclusion that the Ancient Macedonians were a Greek tribe. The theory that it was a non-Greek population, whose ruling class became hellinized, has no basis in fact. Telex 22:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

1. The claim that the Macedonians were created by Tito is just irational and ridiculous. And there was no silence - you just make stuff as you like. But there were in the past and still are today void attempts to negate the existance of the modern Macedonians.
2. Why there are no Slavs in Greece officially but there are unofficially ???
3. The current number of Macedonians in Greece should be added to all those killed and expelled in the 20th century to get the picture of the ethnic composition of Agean Macedonia before greeks occupied it in 1912.
4. How big some population is can't be measured by elections but by census (well observed and non-disputed)
5. That Ancient Macedonians were no Greeks but a completely separate people with a completely different language is well based indeed. --Realek 22:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

1. That's your POV.
2. Because the Greek state doesn't recognize a Slav minority. The only recognized minorities in Greece are: Muslims (Turks, Pomaks and Roma), Armenians and Jews.
3. If only 3,000 people in Greek Macedonia identify as Macedonians then there are 3,000 Macedonians. Today, that it the ethnic composition, deal with it.
4. What other evidence is there that there exist Macedonians in Greece? You can claim there are a million, I (and the Greek government) can claim there are zero. Who's right, nobody knows ;-)
5. You have no source, I've cited Franz Heinrich Ludolf Ahrens. Who except Macedonian Slav nationalists claim they weren't? Telex 22:58, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Laughable --Realek 23:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Typical, you cannot refute it. Try reading what Britannica had to say about ancient Macedonian and then cite your sources saying it wasn't a Greek dialect. Telex 23:11, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

There are much more things in Britannica that you and others here avoid mentioning. For example it calls my country Republic of Macedonia. let's use the "Britannica way" in the Republic of Macedonia article and don't mention the F.Y.R. refference in the opening paragraph but only mention it once towards the end of the article (like in Britannica). If you object this I must conclude you are just being hipocritical and are using double standards. Selecting the things you like and ignoring the rest from the same source is even worse then selecting sources you like and ignoring those that you don't. --Realek 23:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

As I've already told you, I don't care about your name. And no, I'm not being hypocritical. Unlike Britannica, the Wikipedia article on the ancient Macedonian language overly emphasises the fact the "some people" believe it was a seperate language. Unless you'd like all that blanking out, we can follow Britannica and quote them. Furthermore, we are following Wikipedias guidelines on page format, which specify that alternative names should be in the introduction. If you want to change that, feel free to propose it to the administrators. Also, I notice you failed to cite any sources ;-) Telex 23:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Britannica says 'Republic of Macedonia' but also mentions 'FYROM'. as far as i am concerned (though nobody asked me:)...), i would not object in mentioning in the article only 'Republic of Macedonia', if everything else made to link u with the ancient Macedonians (such as this edit [6]) will be removed. i bet that the user who made this change was totally unaware of what he was doing...On the other hand, this is what the Skopjian government and Skopjians are trying to achive: confusion between the ancient and 'modern' Macedonians... --Hectorian 23:35, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

As I said it mentions it only once towards the end of the article - not in the opening paragraph and every corner of the article (like most of the greek editors here want, since they can't push for FYR and other variations as the name of the article). But it's very interesting how you try to bargain with something that you dont't have - the right to name my country. Using your rationale I could "agree" to your demand but if greeks drop their claim over ancient Macedonians. Furthermore: does your softened attitude towards the name used for R.o.Macedonia in wikipedia and trying to get "concessions" for this sudden "good will" means that you are aware that Greece is loosing/has already lost the naming dispute ;) --Realek 23:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

No, Hectorian, what they're trying to achieve is to make people believe that they are in some way related. In mainstream academia, the Macedonian Slavs are unrelated to the ancient Macedonians (despite what is written in Skopje schoolbooks). If they have some kind of exclusive relationship to the ancient Macedonians then they have some right in rem to the entire region. Nevertheless, no one takes them seriously - the Macedonian ethnicity is a product of the 20th century (despite what is written in Skopje schoolbooks). They have bigger problems on their hands; the Ohër agreement between my fellow Albanophones in the western parts of their country (and they form 25% of the entire population) is being violated as we speak. Greece can prevent them joining NATO or the EU under any name other than FYROM (from the 1995 agreement) and if this is violated, Greece can then impose another economic blockade and they will find themselves another 200 years away from joining the EU. Telex 23:50, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Keep dreaming Telex. And wait for the next census in Albania wich will be havily observed - to see how many of Macedonians, Aromanians, Serbs, Montenegrians, Greeks, and others there are in Albania. It will be really funny if Albanians are ctually less than 50% wich is entirely possible. Also wait for all the agreements that Albania will have to make with its minorities and neighbours. If you demand something you should be prepare to give it similar circumstances right? ;) --Realek 00:07, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I know what they claim Telex:). and i am completely aware of what the vast majority of scholars worldwide accept as truth. but the Skopjians are indeed trying to create confusion: ordinary people in the world are not aware of every side of history. so, the fyromian hope is that if they refer to them by the name Macedonians, they will be considered descentants of the ancients.

Realek, i was afraid that i would lose nothing, so, i haven't lost anything...:) the ancient Macedonians spoke Greek, considered themselves Greek and spread the Hellenic culture. thus, the references to the Macedonians as Greeks will remain in wikipedia, even if all the greek editors will suddenly disappear. really, haven't u ever considered why so many non-greek editors who may support the skopjian POV over the naming dispute, laugh ironically when u claim descent from the ancient Macedonians? lastly, concerning the next albanian census...maybe i am looking forward to see the next fyromian census: when it will take place, Bulgaria will already be an EU member...lol (how many so-called 'Macedonians' will be left?) --Hectorian 00:21, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Doubtful (to Realek); after Hoxha not many assimilated ethnic minorities were left and Albania, like Greece, can just live in denial. You see, despite what they tell you over there in Skopje, minorities assimilate. Did you know that the senior members of Vinozhito-Rainbow want to university in Skopje (Voskopoulos et al). They probably came into contact with the "Macedonian invention" there and imported it to Greece, to the (what you call) "Grkomani" and to the Bulgarians. Anyway, let's discuss the EU and the name under which Fyrom will have to accept in order to join. Not to mention the plight of the (what you call) "Bugarashi" of Strumica whose most basic human rights are denied. I OTOH live in a state which is 98% homogenous (Hellenophone Greeks, Albanophone Greeks, Vlachophone Greeks, Turkophone Greeks, Slavophone Greeks, Russophone Greeks etc), so problems like that don't occur. It's like one big happy family. If there were oppressed minorities in Greece and Albania, they would protest, like the 25% - Ethnologue gives 30% - Albanians in Fyrom, and force the government to give them the rights. When they are just 7,000 ageing people (like the Greek minority in Turkey), all the government has to do is just wait for them to pass on. BTW, I bet Albanian will have to be declared a co-official language in Fyrom for you to join the EU. My language, official in Fyrom - WOW ;) Telex 00:23, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Typical flooding with false and unrelated information in order to avoid the point. --Realek 00:39, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

What's the point, I must have missed it (I notice that yet again, you fail to refute anything I've said, if this is how you handle debates - LOL...). Telex 00:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Why should I refute ridiculous things that refute themselves mr "cosmopolitan" ??? Neutral people are reading this forums you know. Let them decide... Furthermore, like I said: I'm tired of some guys flooding with false and unrelated things to avoid the point. You can jump from one unrelated thing to another using obvious untruths all you want. It doesn't bother me a bit. --Realek 00:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Again, abstract ad hominem attacks with no meaning. You cannot refute anything, like you never cite any sources when you POV articles. Any further unsubstantiated comments will be removed. Telex 01:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Neovizantija

I can unite with Greece? Are you trying to say that Milosevic proposed that Canada should unite with Greece? I'm from Canada, buddy :-) --serbiana - talk 23:16, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

God no! We have enough trouble with the Montenegrins, all we need is 11 million Greeks... --serbiana - talk 23:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

It's a stupid idea. Greeks are one of the biggest nationalists in Europe, after the French, it's not a good idea to get involved with them... --serbiana - talk 23:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Thats what CNN would like you to think. --serbiana - talk 23:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Albanians in Greece

Hi Telex. Maybe you could redirect the Albanians in Greece to point at Cham Albanians? or at least say that a part of Cham Albanians live in Greece. You could start that article, as you are the most informed I suppose. Ilir pz 13:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Great then. Good luck with that. I will try to help. Ilir pz 14:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Përfundova. Nuk kam diskutuar Arvanitët dhe Çamët (sot Çamët në Greqi identifikohen si Arvanitë) sepse shumë syresh nuk pëlqejnë të cilësojnë ata Shqiptarët (u jam përjashtim - tani nuk rroj në Greqi). Shiko këtu. Telex 14:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Diafora

Nai. Auton ton realek prepei na ton exoume apo konta kai na koitame ti lista tou. Koita ti paei na perasei tora ston Mega Ioustiniano? To asteio einai oti prospathei na me peisei oti to kanei apo filomatheia... :) Miskin 16:45, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Des thn istoria s'ayto pou sou'steila me il tax.  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 23:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Tha sou fanei periergo, alla tosin ora pou synomilousame sti selida tou lyr, eixa tin entyposi oti milousa me ton realek, gi auto eferna synexeia os paradeigma ta slabomakedonika (ta opoia exoun ontos theorithei apo pollous boulgariki dialektos). Molis katalaba oti isoun esy. Ta arbanitika pantos de miliontai stin ipeiro opos deixnei o xartis. Exeis dei to antistixo xarti stin Macedonian language? Pros stigmin pistepsa pos kai o albanikos eixe ta idia kinitra. Mporei na kano lathos. Miskin 23:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Me sygxoreis gia tin pareksigisi. Miskin 23:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Ton gnorizo auton ton xarti. Tis Hpeirou omos oi albanofonoi itan tsamides pou efygan/ekdioxtikan meta ton 2o pagkosmio. Den itan Arbanites. Miskin 23:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

H prothesi tous kai mono itan thrasitati. Den mporo na katalabo pos bgainoun apo merikes piges oi 200,000 slabofonoi. Tis trixes tous metrane? Miskin 23:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Sigoura tha yparxoun Slabofonoi alla sigoura oxi 200 xiliarika. Tourkoi pou einai gyro sta 100 yparxoun kai tous exo dei, gi auto mou fainetai perioergo pou oi Slaboi krybontai toso kala. Des mia pigi pou eixa parathesei kapote kai tin apopsi tis sta slabomakedonika [7]. O syggrafeas den einai glossologos alla milaei Slabika. Yparxoun glossologoi pou ta theoroun Boulgarika, o monos logos pou ginetai i diaforopoiisi einai i monimi gkrinia tous. Miskin 00:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Ha! Toutos mou fainetai pos einai o xeiroteros ap'olous. Ton exo balei sto mati. Miskin 00:30, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

ntin ntan, exeis ki'allo mhnymataki... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 00:38, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Prepei epigontos na eisigithoume arthro en onomati ellinomakedones (sta agglika). Miskin 17:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Stin elliniki wikipedia to sbisane me ti logiki "makedonas gia emas simainei ellinas, ara to 'ellinomakedonas' einai pleonasmos". Edo omos opos katalabaineis auti i logiki den ifistatai, opote den nomizo na yparksei tetoiou eidous problima. Piges yparxoun, exo mia sta yp'opsin, alla to xrisimopoiei kapos pio syggekrimena (tout'estin, ellines pou metanastepsan apo ti makedonia stin australia stis arxes tou 20ou aiona). 17:32, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Mallon tin idia pigi exoume. Miskin 17:57, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

"Then in the early 1920's the Muslim population was cleansed by deporting most Muslims to Turkey and importing a large Christian Turk population from Asia Minor and other parts of Turkey." Ha-ha, zoa. Eimai periergos an auta ontos ta pisteuouni i apla i amorfosia tous ftanei se tetoious bathmous. Miskin 18:50, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't lie!

Considering your posts and edits, you're as much cosmopolitan as Adolf Hitler was!

As a reply to your warning posted to me: I reverted it only once, as a result of a vandalism from FunkyFly. In my prior editing I only made the article as neutral as possible; if you reread it, as a "cosmopolitan" you should be able to see that my edit intended to stop the ridiculous edit-war, and made no conclusion regarding Goce Delchev's nationality - this way nobody should be offended.

By the way, your Macedonian translation is incorrect.

--

IPm

OK Realek, no further questions. FunkyFly 02:26, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

To eides to il tax sou? NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 17:26, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Mpa den ton gnorizo. Miskin 18:23, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Thaumasia arxi! Tha bgaloun spiria kapoioi. Miskin 18:23, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Kanthles!  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 18:52, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Kai pou eisai akoma... Bravo Telex gia tin polu kali douleia kai skepsi:). kai kati asxeto: eida ti edeixes ston miskin, mporeis na mou metafraseis ti eipe otan diegrapse?[8] eimai periergos...--Hectorian 23:54, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Hehe... ton eknevrises:). des to il.tax. --Hectorian 00:04, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Hipi Zhpripi

I would be willing to support an unblocking provided that he is on probation (1RR), is banned from editing articles relating to Serbs or Serbia (including Kosovo), and/or is assigned a mentor. I've seen him cause a lot of trouble (perhaps in good faith, perhaps not) on Serbia related articles. I would be happy to see him editing articles relating to Albania. Let me know what you think. - FrancisTyers 23:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I would support this move too as long as he apologises for his behaviour on HRE's RfA. However he really needs to familiarise with Wikipedia policies (i.e. Fair Use and Copyright restrictions) and definitely to start assuming good faith. Regards, --Asterion ^{talk to me} 09:50, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

PS: Given his most recent behaviour, I am afraid I cannot vouch for him anymore. I just had to get my talk page protected to deal with his trolling. He needs to cool down and learn from his actions. Maybe in a couple of months time.--Asterion ^{talk to me} 14:16, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

The guy is from Kosovo, if he is not allowed to edit Kosovo-related articles then what democracy are we talking about here in Wikipedia? I agree that he should not be allowed to vandalize any, and Serbian articles for that matter. But then you say let him edit articles related to Albania. Kosovo is related to Albania in many ways. Contradiction, Francis. Yes, Asterion, he needs to familiarize with some policies, I guess we can help him, instead of reporting him all the time, or making fun of his level of English. I can help you in that aspect. Greetings, Ilir pz 09:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I have never made fun of him because his English, maybe your friend Boris did at the beginning. I am not a native English speaker myself. The fact is that he is unable to understand basic rules of civility and this is indeed what I find problematic. And by the way, I have not reported him for well over a month. I had nothing to do with his block. He got that upon himself because his trolling during HRE's RfA. And by the look of it, he is still pretty much unapologetic about it.--Asterion ^{talk to me} 14:16, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Ilir, I'm from from the UK, I spend very little time working with UK related articles. To presume that he is only able to edit Kosovo related articles because thats where he is from is crazy. Wikipedia is not a democracy. Kosovo is related to Albania, but if he's editing stubs on Albanian villages, he's not going to cause as much trouble as fooling around and edit warring with (equally crazy) Serbs. Having him work on non-Kosovo related articles would help in two ways, 1. He could get a grasp of Wikipedia policies without the (obvious) emotional involvement he has with Kosovo. 2. He could improve his research skills and interpersonal communication skills so that when he is allowed back to editing Kosovo related articles he doesn't get permbanned again. - FrancisTyers 14:21, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, Francis. Hehe you use the word crazy too often. Anyways. My point was that Kosovo-related articles are what the abovementioned user is the most interested in. And to prevent him from doing that, and telling him write about some tribes in Africa for some time instead, to get over his "emotional" involvement with Kosovo, is not the smartest . I do not think one should be banned permanently just like that. He does extensive research, and brings those cited works for discussion, all the time. I think he is a valuable editor, and with a little help and understanding, and no discouragement of any sort, would do just fine. Ilir pz 14:27, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, I say crazy too often ;) He wouldn't have to write about tribes in Africa, if he doesn't find that interesting... he could write about villages in Albania, or perhaps popular music of Albania, or literature of Albania, hell, the Albanian literature is smaller than the stub i started on Sudanese literature. - FrancisTyers 15:19, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

BTW why is just Hipi being scrutinized here. I've met more trollish Serb users and they're still on the loose (no one's even considering banning them). Telex 14:29, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

He's being scrutinised because the section on your talk page is called Hipi Zhpripi. We are discussing him because he is the one who got banned, if it was one of the asshole Serb users, we'd be discussing them. - FrancisTyers 15:22, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

like the juvenile User:C-c-c-c you mean? oh well, I guess we should take some measures. Ilir pz 14:36, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Mais non - this is a typical Hipi Zhdripi edit. No wonder he got banned. Telex 14:38, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

that's what I am talking about. Whereas when Hipi ever crossed the line, I asked him to be careful, because I got complains from pro-Serbian editors. But surprisingly when I got vandalized by this user above, none of the pro-Serbian editors felt like doing the same to him. Interesting. By the way I started a complaint, but seems like none wants to address the issue. See Wikipedia:Personal_attack_intervention_noticeboard, Ilir pz 14:44, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Why do you think he named himself after a carbon chain? Telex 14:49, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Those letters are in Cyrillic, and they stand for ""Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava" (only union saves serbs). Some told me that that is something else, has to do with Byzantium. But I am sure this juvenille user does not know that much, but is using this nationalistic sign, under which Serbian troops committed crimes in Kosovo. Ilir pz 14:52, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it just Serbia national motto? --Asterion ^{talk to me} 15:08, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

It may have something to do with the motto of the Greek Orthodox Church, "Βασιλεύς Βασιλέων Βασιλεύων Βασιλευόντων" or "ΒΒΒΒ" ("King of Kings ruling over Kings", referring to Jesus). Perhaps the Serbs use that motto as well. Telex 15:10, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe. It just that that motto I saw in my grandma's burnt house. So I do not associate it with nice stuff. Ilir pz 15:24, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

He may does himself. I do not think you should judge him for his username. In any case, try to talk to him (cccc). I did when he went to far on a VfD and he took it well and admitted he needed to cool down. He has only been around for a little while, remember: Don't bite the newbie! Asterion ^{talk to me} 15:29, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Try to talk to him? how about you check the attacks he made on my talk page? No way I spend time on him.Ilir pz 15:31, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure, there are plenty of Serbs who are assholes, but we aren't discussing that here, we're discussing Hipi Zhdripi. Had the rôles been reversed, and this was say, User:Nexm0d (seriously, check that guy out — he's like ultra-hyper-mega-Serb — I bet he sleeps with the Serbian flag above his head and has a lifesize tattoo of Milosevic's head on his back) I would be equally as strict. In fact, if you want to bring a case against him, go ahead. - FrancisTyers 15:19, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

You might have to look at the history of his userpage, seems some of the templates he was using got deleted. - FrancisTyers 15:21, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I do not care about people's orientations, Francis. Let them live with it. The user Nexm0d you mentioned above did not affect in any way my work. Being strict with people does not always give results. Especially in the Balkans that proved to be catastrophic. Instead I think here in Wikipedia there should be more democracy than that. Ilir pz 15:32, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

See this version of Nexm0d's userpage :-D Telex 15:34, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

That template he has about the Greater Serbia makes me wonder. If the Albanians started seeking a Greater Albania, the Greeks started seeking the implementation of the Grand Design, the Serbs were after a Greater Serbia, the Bulgarians after San Stefano Bulgaria, the Macedonian Slavs after a United Macedonia etc, none of us would be able to sleep at nights. Telex 15:39, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Not worth wasting your precious time looking at that, Telex :) Regards, Ilir pz 15:53, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Smile!

Asterion ^{talk to me} has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}} or {{subst:smile2}} to their talk pages. Happy editing!

You deserve it...

Telex is awarded this Barnstar for his particularly fine idea of an article Greek Macedonians.  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 22:30, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

How did'n anybody think of this before? Why didn't anybody find sources for something so necessary, so obvious and so disambiguating? Congratulations cosmopolitan. Now we have work expanding it... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 22:30, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. It was Miskin's idea, but thanks ;-) --Telex 22:30, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic cleansing plans in WW1

I added another source: The Oxford Illustrated History of the First World War The Germans initially planned to annex only a `frontier strip' of Polish territory (from which, however, Slavs and Jews would be cleared) --Molobo 23:18, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

OK - this is a souce I can live with :-) --Telex 23:19, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Den prepei se kamia periptosi na allaksei to simeioma. Eixame symfonisei me to Francis na min allaksei onoma tou arthrou (px se Macedonian (Slavic)) ef'oson yparxei ena kalo dab. An allaksei to dab tote exoume dikaioma na allaksoume onomasia tou arthrou. Miskin 12:32, 15 May 2006 (UTC) Min anisyxeis, o Francis tha mas ypostiriksei. Mou eixe pei pos an to bgaloun tha to epanaferei. Miskin 12:53, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

An thes to allazoume, kai Slavos/mi-slavos kanei. Pantos to 'moderno' kai to 'asxeto' kollaei sto oti to ena enthos dialithike ton 4 aiona p.x. kai to allo dimiourgithike sta teli tou 20 m.x. Kati oti bebaia briskontai se diaforetika geografika plati. Miskin 14:14, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

As to afisoume etsi kalytera, symfonise kai o Aldux, kai nomizo pos einai ligotero proklitiko. Miskin 15:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Gia mena einai shmantiko. Den nomizw oti yparxei 8ema gia to allo, dioti afora allo pragma kai oxi to idio (den einai parabash na allazeis dyo xexwrista 8emata apo treis fores to ka8ena -etsi den einai?).  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 16:18, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Yet, I have to thank you again, Telex, for taking the fast action to block the impersonator. I already have an idea who that could have been. One of those juvenile editors that vandalized my talk page, if you recall :)). Thanks again. By the way, did you choose the username "Telex" because you like the Albanian music band "telex" or just out of telex as a communications technology? Curious :)) Ilir pz 23:32, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

That explains everything. I thought you had gone mental and started contradicting yourself!--Asterion ^{talk to me} 03:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Nah, not gone mental, though I have so much to do :) ilir_pz 10:05, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

WHy are you revertin

Do you see ho much information I have cited. It is not my fault that user:grandmaster will not accpet facts. In Iran the Azari population calls itself Azari not Azeri. Why did you revert the edit?

You did not answer me when I engaged you in meaningful diologue. ::You know why becuase you are the same user last time that engaged me in conflict as a proxy for user:Grandmaster. The admini is aware of this too. So decease and stop trying to intimdate me when I had a legitmate edit and a question. 72.57.230.179

Will you submit a 3RR report or you prefer if I do it? Grandmaster 12:00, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

User Page deletion

Done. Academic Challenger 22:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Dear customer...

You have a message inside the shop. Please revisit! (btw wtf happened in your userpage? Where's the history? Aren't you a cosmopolitan anymore? :-))  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 23:54, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, I was going to add a translation in Azeri language. :) Grandmaster 07:51, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

The problem is, my old userpage made people call me a nationalist. For example:

• ... You're a greek ultra-nationalist...
• ... and Bulgarian nationalist like you...
• Considering your posts and edits, you're as much cosmopolitan as Adolf Hitler was!
• ... is your claim that you are a cosmopolitan and not a nationalist supposed to be ironic? It surely looks that way.

Alas, it was too provocative, so I replaced it with a pretty picture. This doesn't mean that I'm no longer a cosmopolitan ;-) --Telex 09:34, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Better include French, Bulgarian and "Macedonian" too above then... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 11:44, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

There's no point in including French and I don't speak Bulgarian/Macedonian well enough. --Telex 11:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Τσάμηδες

De symfono me auti tin allagi [9]. To KKE eixe enopli eksousia pano sti Boreia Hpeiro, kai oi Tsamides ekdioxtikan eks'aitias tis Abanikis stasis ston deutero pagkosmio. Miskin 11:52, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Το ΚΚΕ μπορεί να είχε καταλάβει τη Βόρεια Ήπειρο, αλλά αυτό δε σημαίνει ότι τη "χάρισαν" στον Χότζα και τους Αλβανούς κομμουνιστές. Κάτι τέτοιο είναι γελοίο, και αν είναι να το γράψουμε θα χρειαστούμε τουλάχιστον μια πηγή (όνομα ή δεσμός διαδικτύου). Συμφωνώ ότι οι Τσάμηδες εκδιώχθηκαν λόγω της στάσης των βασιλόφρων Αλβανών, αλλά φταίει και η στάση των Μουσουλμάνων Τσάμηδων. --Telex 11:58, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Mas prosebale kai theorisa pos i symboli tou itan spatali xorou. Etsi ki allios den eixe dikio, den itan o Lucas o protergatis itan o Decius (Alexander_007). Miskin 22:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

To wp:cite den exei ikanopoiithei, to ilegksa kai me administratora. Den exei yparksei oute mia pigi (plin .bg kai .mk pou safos de metrane) pou na onomazei tous idious kati allo apo ellines. To wp:cite egine gia ti mitera tous, kai auto exei ikanopoiithei. Afou kai o idios to leei pos den exei piges, to epixeirima tou einai mono pos "o boulgarikos laos pisteuei tade". Eixe kai to thrassos na mou pei "you're trolling" to zoon. Miskin 22:10, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

3RR

Yeah, 3RR applys to any revert, no matter what it's about. I learned that the hard way. :( —Khoikhoi 01:30, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Πώς σου φαίνονται αυτά τα δύο;

Πώς σου φαίνονται; talk to +MATIA 08:42, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Με βάζουν σε σκέψεις. Γιατί μόνο η Ελλάδα αντέδρασε και όχι η Ιαπωνία; Φαντάζεσαι να τους είχε τερματίσει το εμπάργκο η Ελλάδα (που χρησιμοποίησαν το Αστέρι της Βεργίνας) μόνο για να τους επιβάλλει ένα η Ιαπωνία; Αν διεκδικούσαν την ιστορία της Ιαπωνίας, είχαν προφανές αλυτρωτικές βλέψεις εις βάρος της και ισχυρίζονταν (ψευδώς) ότι υπάρχει μια μειονότητα πάνω από διακοσίων χιλιάδων ατόμων, μπορεί να το έκαναν. Βλέπω και άλλη μια σχέση, ξέρεις που ισχυρίζονται ότι οι Έλληνες έχουν νέγρικη καταγωγή με βάση μια γενετική μελέτη; Το ίδιο αποτέλεσμα βγήκε και για τους Ιάπωνες! Ξέρεις αν η Ιαπωνία έχει αναγνωρίσει το συνταγματικό τους όνομα, ή όχι ακόμα. --Telex 09:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's similar ;-) Bomac 09:18, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I prefer your flag though. It's symmetrical and doesn't have a sharp contrast with the colors. --Telex 09:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Aromanians

Yeah, I understand. But he made several personal attacks so I decided to do it. Blocking him won't make any difference, he's able to evade them anyways. It should stay up. —Khoikhoi 20:31, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Smells like Bonaparte, but I don't think it's him. ;) —Khoikhoi 20:36, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Cosmy? ;-)

What, you are not a cosmopolitan anymore? It is hard to be a Balkan cosmy? Bomac 20:38, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

See #Dear customer.... It's hard being a cosmopolitan in a nationalist universe --Telex 20:40, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd rather prefer patience. And strong will... Bomac 20:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

The best thing to do would be to prohibit people from the Balkans editing Balkan related articles. If they did though, what would we do around here? All the minutiae that "Balkanians" spend time bickering (and edit warring over) would sloppily be left unscrutinized, so that nationalists wouldn't be able to tell whether an article was pro-Greek or pro-Macedonian. It would appear to contradict itself. --Telex 20:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

Falemnderit Telex. :) I'll try to be equally creative when I have the time. Cheers, —Khoikhoi 00:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

As for our "Kurds do not exist" friend, just let it sit for a day, even a week or so. That way he'll get bored and get up from his computer. —Khoikhoi 00:37, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppet

Hi Telex,

I thought that my impersonator was banned, but he seems to still be active. hmmm ilir_pz 09:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, blocked users can still edit their talk pages. --Telex 09:45, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I saw this and got confused, but then checked the date and it was edited before the impersonator was blocked. Sorry. nice picture in the front page, by the way. ilir_pz 10:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

A bit confused

Hi Telex. You've stated in Albanians in Greece that 650,000-700,000 Albanians are in Greece, of whom 200,000 ethnic Greeks. If I gather things correctly (the report is quite long, and a bit confusing) These 200,000 claim to be homogeneis, that is ethnic Greeks; and all ethnic Greeks have a sort of natural right to citzenship (a bit like Germans); but the greatest part of the Albanian homogeneis are not accepted as such, or at least the authorities deny them citzenship. Have I made a correct description of the situation? Ciao--Aldux 20:29, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Aldux, you don't seriously think they have a right to citizenship, do you? In such cases, citizenship is granted on a discretionary basis, and at present, the Greek government likes having a Greek minority in Albania (to counter the more numerous Albanian influence in Greece). Contrary to the claims by the anon, the Greek government actively discourages Boreioepirote Greeks from immigrating to Greece, that's why many of them are illegally in Greece. Boreioepirote Greeks want to come to Greeece, because they speak the language. In practice, only Greek immigrants abroad can request to reclaim citizenship this way. For example, the grandchildren of a Greek immigrant in Germany who can't speak the language fluently, can request citizenship as homogeneis and they would probably be granted it, whereas a member of the Greek minority in Turkey who speaks Greek fluently wouldn't (he serves Greek state's interests better in Turkey). --Telex 20:43, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Think of it more like Irish citizenship law - see jus sanguinis. To claim Greek citizenship, you'd need to prove that at least one grandparent of yours had Greek citizenship. --Telex 20:46, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

For the statute, see here. --Telex 20:50, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

We have something similar in Italy. Greece also provides a sort of intermediate case I think, the so-called homogeneis cards, which give residence for ethnic Greeks but not citzenship.--Aldux 20:58, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

You'd have to prove that you are an ethnic Greek though. This is done by a chain of birth certificates to an ancestor who was born in Greece. This is something the Boreioepirote Greeks lack. --Telex 21:42, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, for the info., Telex, you've solved my confusion. Ciao!--Aldux 21:57, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Nuk jamë edhe aq i sigurt, por me sa di une shtetësia Greke ka qenun ngush e lidhur me përkatësin fetare d.m.th me përkatësin e Kishës si bie fjala anëtarët e kishes Greke janë shtetas Grekë. Kjo lejonë mundësin që nëse në një vendbanim ku nuk ka ndonjë kishë tjeter pos asaj greke dhe në të shkojnë anëtarë të kombeve tjera ata automatikisht do të merren si Grekë. Nëse e kam gabim më korigjo por të lutem ke në mendje se ligji i përkatësis shtetrore Greke ka dryshuar diçka në kohët e fundit (çka saktësisht nuk e di)--Hipi Zhdripi 23:48, 18 May 2006

Grekët antik duhet pasur kujdes dhe të mos përzihen me grekët e sotit. Jo pse nuk dua unë apo dikush tjeter, po kështu e ashtu, nga dokumentet e antikës aty është puna shumë e komplikume. Përdorimi i termit "Grekë" nga autoret antik, po më duket shpeshë është bërë jo për të treguar përkatësin por më tepër për të treguar kulturen e një populli (fisi) me të cilen ai popull ka qenë më i afërt. Në shumë shkrime të autorëve antikë Athina është prezentuar si pjesë periferike e Greqisë e shpeshë ajo është kundërshtare e grekëve. --Hipi Zhdripi 23:55, 18 May 2006

Kisha Ortodokse Greke është me të vërtetë aspekt i rëndësishëm i identitetit grek. Megjithëse, nuk jam i sigurt nëse ndikon pranueshmëria për shtetësinë. Meqë ra fjala, a di që mund të përdorosh llogarinë tënde? --Telex 00:26, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Jo nuk mundem, nuk e di pse? Si do që të jetë e di që për shtete orthodokse deri në kohën më të re nuk vlenë përkufizimi i shtetësis sipas përkufizmit perendimorë (Të drejtës romake) është e njëjta gjë sikurse me shtete islamike për të cilat për sistemin e shtetit dhe të shtetësis përdorin terin "kalifat" , shtete orthodokse e përkthejnë fjalën shtet (etat) bukfalisht po nuk e ka të njëjtin kuptim. Sipas këtyre dy sistemeve "kalifati" apo "shteti" janë teritore që kanë një llojë autonomie fetare përbrenda fesë. Kjo me sa di unë nuk ndodhë sipas të "drejtës romake" për të cilen shtete janë anëtare të OKB-së --Hipi Zhdripi 21:25, 19 May 2006

Nganjëherë cilësojnë Greqinë "theocracy i fundit i Evropës". Ky pretendim nuk është i vërtetë, theocracy i fundit i Evropës është Qyteti i Vatikanit. Megjithatë, e egziston një element e vërtetës në këtë pretendim mbi Greqinë. Kisha i shtetit është shumë ndikuese në Greqi, më shumë se në tjetër shtetë i Evropës. --Telex 23:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Gia Mas!

Bravo Telex, i really find it cool, and respect you that you didnt rv or deleted my adjustments on the Ancient Macedonians wikipage, therefore (from my side) you should be honoured with a medall. thank you very much, and thank you very much for even correcting some things in my adjustments, even tough we arent agreeing on 99% of the subjects! Gia Mas! --Makedonia 23:46, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Moldova

Thanks. Actually, I'm going to try following the 1RR from now on. Sure, edit wars get POV-pushers blocked, but the problem with them is that we're always back to square one in the end. They also take up server space. I've also found that when discussing things, I was surprised how reasonable certain people can be, that I wouldn't really have expected from them before. Mirupafshim për së shpejti. —Khoikhoi 01:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Greek identifying distinct groups in Greece

Hi, I'm a native speaker of English and I'd like to ask you to tell me what "Greek identifying distinct groups in Greece" actually means as it makes absolutely no sense to me. --Damac 11:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, as you know, there is a little resentment in Greece over the terms "minority" and "ethnic minority". There are some culturally or linguistically distinct groups, but nevertheless, don't quite qualify as ethnic groups, as they self-identify as Greeks. That's why it has not been possible to include, for example, Tsakonians or Pontian Greeks in Category:Ethnic groups in Greece (both of these groups have their own distinct languages, the Tsakonian language and the Pontic language respectively, though). I thought this would be the best way to list all articles we have on population groups in Greece, as categorizing them under the label "ethnic group" is rather defective, because the vast majority of these - in some way - distinct groups, are nevertheless ethnic Greeks. --Telex 11:33, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I understand where you're coming from but it's not Wikipedia's job to reflect the "little resentment in Greece" that you refer to. The issue is controversial but Wikipedia should try and reflect the issue on a NPOV way. It is a widely known fact that there are members of the Greek Muslim minority who see themselves as Turks but are not allowed to define themselves so under the terms of the [{Treaty of Lausanne]].

The difficulty here is how to define ethnic group. I think the Wikidedia article on that is very NPOV. Under its terms, Irish Americans are an Category:Ethnic groups in the United States even though the vast majority of Irish Americans have a) never been to Ireland and b) hold US citizenship and are first and foremost Americans. Similarly, the Category:Ethnic groups in the United Kingdom contains English, Scots, Welsh etc. all of whom are British citizens/subjects. As this example shows, etnicity and nationality and citizenship are at times different, and at times seperate, isses. If it is acceptable in the UK to be both Scottish and British, surely it is acceptable to be both Tsakonian and Greek in Greece.

I believe that the existing category Category:Ethnic groups in Greece is fine as it is that that Category:Greek identifying distinct groups in Greece is not only meaningless but totally unnecessary. Therefore, I'm going to propose that it be deleted, using the arguments above.--Damac 15:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Whatever. --Telex 15:32, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your input.--Damac 08:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Trolling

"Please do not feed the troll"

Hi Telex. Thanks for your support, but unfortunately we are dealing with a very persistent troll. He created a userbox that calls for incorporation of Azerbaijan into Iran and keeps adding it to the Azeri Wikiproject page. What in your opinion is the best way of dealing with him? Grandmaster 11:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Revert and revert... and revert and let the ordinary course of things deal with the problem. --Telex 11:59, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe. Could you please keep an eye on our Wikipedia:WikiProject Azeri as well? Thanks in advance. Grandmaster 12:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Watchlisted. --Telex 12:05, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. This guy left messages on so many user pages calling for help, it’s unbelievable. Grandmaster 12:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually if you know anything on the subject you would not even make such an absurd and obviously biased announcment. It is obvious that you are acting as a proxy for user:Grandmaster and the administrators will become aware of this when the review your talk and edit history. 72.57.230.179

I didn't violate anything and I will not let you violate the code of conduct for Wikipedia 72.57.230.179

Looks like our friend violated 3RR again. Grandmaster 12:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh my... --Telex 12:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, you did it quicker than me. Grandmaster 12:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

My essay

Hi, the footnote was added for humourous purposes, for which it served its purpose. It may surprise you to know that outside Greece, the naming dispute is looked upon in a humourous manner. Tomic is actually a she. You lose two liberal points. What you said may be true. I don't speak Albanian so I can't say for sure. I was merely reporting what was in the literature. I think my point still holds regardless as the point I was making was that the past tense was analytical (formed with to have + verb). There are a number of points which may come accross as biased which I have subsequently fixed. Examples being using Pirin Macedonia, Aegean Macedonia, etc. — Which I had understood to be value-neutral geographical terms. Any specific other complaints? - FrancisTyers 13:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

In fact, it is the same in other languages in the Sprachbund, however for brevity I only specified those. I'll look up the paper now. - FrancisTyers 13:51, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, she gives examples in Albanian, Aromanian, Greek and Macedonian. - FrancisTyers 13:57, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure you can quantify grammatically complex. But I suggest you look at: Polysynthetic language — those always blow my mind. She has for Greek To eho diatisi to Biblio, which is apparently neuter. - FrancisTyers 14:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually its not surprising, for half of the paper she mispells "clitic" as "critic". Her English is pretty bad. If I had had more time I would have looked for a paper by Friedman that covers it, he writes much more lucidly. I figure the X is kind of like X in Cyrillic. - FrancisTyers 14:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

And Romanian of course :) These are pro-drop languages. - FrancisTyers 14:51, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Edit-warring, etc

Hi Telex,

I'm sure you know this already, but could you please note the three revert rule? You've effectively just had an edit war on Priština with the Serbian editors, in conjunction with Ilir_pz in a sort of tag-team style. Edit warring isn't a helpful tactic, whoever starts it, and I'd urge you to avoid getting sucked into edit wars. If you see one developing please let me know and I'll see what I can do to sort it out. -- ChrisO 22:38, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Pristina

Sorry 'bout the link, i had no intention to delete it as well. Είναι γνωστό τοις πάσι ότι οι Σέρβοι στο Κόσοβο έχουν μειωθεί κατά πάρα πολύ μετά το 1999. Δεν ξέρω ποιος φταίει, αλλά σίγουρα όχι οι Σέρβοι... Οι Κοσοβάροι ζήτησαν την επέμβαση του ΝΑΤΟ, και αυτοί semi-ελέγχουν την περιοχή τώρα. Εσύ γιάτι το διέγραψες? Παρείχες κάποια άλλη δικαιολογία για τημ μείωση του αριθμού τους, πριν κάνεις delete σε αυτήν; --Hectorian 00:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Αυτό να το εκλάβω ως απειλή, φίλε μου? --Hectorian 00:34, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

If we are about to edit a NPOV version, we should say that the number of the Serbs was reduced by far after 1999 (after the NATO bombings and the UCK actions, caused partially by Milocevic regime, but continued after his regime as well...). everything else is simply POV. Let the reader decide what is true or false, by just presenting the facts! and since i saw that the NY Times' article had been used as a 'fact', why don't u list all these articles of newspapers (greek, other european, american, etc), that were talking about the 'kosovan genocide' of 200 thousands victims, caused by the serbs? we now know that these newspapers were simply lieing for political reasons... --Hectorian 00:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

check your email --Hectorian 00:50, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your edit, on Prishtina, Telex. ilir_pz 00:56, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Si duket janë lëshuar vandalët në gjithë artikujt lidhur mbi Kosovën dhe shqiptarët, dhe dyshoj se është një person i vetëm që ka disa emra të ndryshëm. Kjo të lodh.ilir_pz 01:13, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Po. Shiko këtu. Do të zbulojmë kush është kush dhe kush ka sockpuppetë ;-) --Telex 01:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

ok, do e shikoj nganjehere. ilir_pz 01:32, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Kanë bërë punë të mirë disa administratorë aty. Shpresëdhënëse. ilir_pz 17:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Ki durim edhe pak, sa te zyrtarizohen numrat. Pastaj keta skane me argumente. :) naten e mire. ilir_pz 22:47, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Ja me ne fund eshte zyrtare. Te kisha kerkuar ndihmen tende, te mos lejojme qe ti fusin atdheut tim ate prapashtesen se eshte pjese e tyre. Perderisa ai shtet nuk ekziston, as sipas atij dokumentit qe nai shpifi. Me kontakto ne iliripz (at) hotm. po deshe. ilir_pz 07:34, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

A i pe sa te koordinuar qe jane ata dy sockpuppete? ne User_talk:ChrisO. S'eshte cudi qe eshte i njejti person. Do jete e veshtire te ndalohen keta faqezinj. Ndihma jote do jete me se e nevojshme, vella/moter. ilir_pz 09:59, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Vella arvanitas, pergezime per kujdesin, edhe punen e palodhshme ne parandalimin e vandaleve. Je shume efektiv. Gjith te mirat, ilir_pz 09:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Greek language

I'd love to help out, but I don't currently know much about the Greek language. Let me know when you're working on it... - FrancisTyers 16:41, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Гърците

You're welcome. Also, don't hesitate to ask if you need to have something in Bulgarian checked by a native speaker. → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 17:29, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Pomaks

Hi Telex. I've started working on Pomaks, what do you think of the article at the moment (it's only at the beginning). Ciao! --Aldux 18:32, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

It's very good. I'll be joining in soon :-) --Telex 18:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Cornish Flag

Good call on the flag move - lets hope this gives a bit more stability to the page :) Mammal4 08:00, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I have

...the most recent polls seem that those for the Union seem to be slowly outgunning the independists. The Montenegrin independence referendum lasts right now as we speak, and disorders have already braken out in Niksic and probably (will if not yet) elsewhere. --HolyRomanEmperor 12:11, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's obviously that it's doing it. We have it on tape. ;) --HolyRomanEmperor 12:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Category Deletion

Please visit [10] and weigh in!  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 17:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Scanderbeg (George Castriota)

Hi Telex,

There is an article missing about Scanderbeg, the national hero of the Albanians, at the Greek version of Wikipedia. I appreciate if you could create the missing article.

Thank you so much in advance!

Best regards,

Albanau 19:25, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. --Telex 19:49, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

flag

well you can forbid a government to use it, but you cant forbid the people to use it, it was, is and will always be our sun my friend, this flag is widely used all over Macedonia

you didnt even used the sun before the 80's, but well i cant blame you, your government should be blamed, its like the sheeps are the greek citizens, the dog is your president and the shepherd is your prime minister. ;) --Makedonia 19:36, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Not quite, dear :-) you'll just have to get used to the fact that other people use the emblem as well. --Telex 19:51, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, what are you talking about? The Vergina Sun wasn't discovered until 1977. --Telex 19:54, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Hahahahahah! "you didnt even used the sun before the 80's". This one line says it all. The Vergina star has been known for centuries... Shows you how far along the propaganda of your government has gone.  /FunkyFly.talk_   20:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

yeah exactly we macedonians know it for centuries, but the greeks didnt know the emblem before 77 and they first started using it in the 80's after it became clear that there would be a indepent macedonia soon. --Makedonia 23:02, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

LOL... nothing else... LOL... --Telex 23:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC) (things would be different if you could prove what you were saying and all this wasn't a meaningless claptrap)

If that's true then the Vergina star must have been the best kept secret in the Universe for centuries. A huge world wide conspiracy with massive implications and unpredictable results...  /FunkyFly.talk_   00:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

But of course, didn't you know - only select circles were permitted to glance at its ancient beauty ;-) --Telex 00:49, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Montenegro

It was 56.3% 55.2% and then 55.8% and 55.1%. Now it is finally 55.3% although it could still change (I'm afraid). --HolyRomanEmperor 22:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

The results are not final until they are confirmed by the state referendum commission. Stop edit-warring over speculations. Thanks, Asterion ^{talk to me} 22:25, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you wiki stalking HRE, Asterion? ilir_pz 22:26, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I am actually talking to Telex. Not sure why are you replying, Ilir? This comment is about his recent reverts on Albanians. What has it got to do with you, anyway? Asterion ^{talk to me} 22:30, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Telex made no speculation about the results. HRE gave the results above, and then you commented them. Don't feel bad. You see that the term wiki-stalking is wrong? You criticized me. ilir_pz 22:31, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

No, I see that I have left a message on Telex's talk page, regarding to the same subject as the header and in relation with my edit summary on Albanians, and you came out of the blue to reply. I am not impressed. Asterion ^{talk to me} 22:35, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow..I'm just commenting because I know this will just add to the "wiki-stalking" mania. Cool down folks. C-c-c-c 22:43, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Albanias

Tung!

Po më duket ti je i informuar mirë për gjendjen e avanitasve në Greqi. Nëse është ashtu, kisha dashur të di mendimin tënd logjikë mbi këtë:

Shtetasit shqiptar, shqiptarë e Kosovës i thërrasin Kosovarë, ndërsa shqiptarët e Greqisë çamë apo arvanitas. Mund të llogarisë që shqiptarët autoktonë në Greqi nuk kanë dëshirë të quhen me të njëjtin emër sikurse shqiptarët që kanë migruar në kohët e fundit. Kjo është e drejt/saktë. Por për të pasur një pasqyrë të drejtë duhet që të mbahet një seleksionim shkencorë d.m.th aty ku përdoret termi çamë/arvanitas të përdoret termi kosovar, aty ku përdoret termi shiptarë të Shqipërisë të përdoret shtetas shqiptar dhe kur bëhet fjalë për të gjith? unë nuk ka zgjidhje logjike po ti.--Hipi Zhdripi 03:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Së pari, duhet të kuptosh diçka. Sot, në Greqi, «Çam» nënkupton një musliman që flet shqip, dhe «Arvanit» nënkupton një krishter që flet shqip. Sot, nuk egzistojnë Çamë (muslimanë) në Greqi. Ushtria greke dëbuan Çamët (musulmanët) në 1944 - «Genocidi i Çamëve». Sot, vëtëm shqiptarët autoktonë në Greqi janë Arvanitët. Arvanitët nuk emërohen shqiptarë sepse deklarohen grekë që flasin shqip, dhe nëse qenë shqiptarë, ky do të cënojë besnikërinë tënde në shtetin greke. Arvanitët janë janë domethënësë ne historinë e Greqisë, një shembull është që shumë presidentë të Greqisë qenë Arvanitë. Sot, shumë pak njerëz flasin Arvanitisht dhe të gjithë janë pleq. Shiko këta artikuj [11], [12] e [13]. --Telex 23:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

The Florina guys welcome "Macedonian minority" statement

Seen this?Apostolos Margaritis 12:07, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, they wouldn't wouldn't they. Of course, we all know it'll be ignored. --Telex 23:59, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Makedonska Kamenica municipality Flag

Why are you constantly removing the flag, it is its official municipality flag, and as I see again you do not interprete the authors right as it should de done>>I refer to the sun of vergina, Even if greece has already registered the simbol as greek, in the document stais that every one is still free to use it.You only have the adjective GREEK by the sun of vergina, nothing more. the Flag and the simbol do diferentiate each other (even if there is an black dot in the center of the sun will be something different).... think about.. Have something to explain to me if I'm wrong...Please I'll wait. Thanx--Vlatko 18:07, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Vlatko, you have to be patient with the (so often stunted) patriotic Greek wiki users . They simply do not get it Apostolos Margaritis 16:43, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

The website of the municipality does not have this flag, so it is not the official one.  /FunkyFly.talk_   16:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Ah, as you can see on the site, i sais "still in work" , by the way the flag is on vexila mundi's site, its an enough prove.And why did you removed the other macedonian simbols ffrom the macedonian artices?>>>FUNKYFLY---:-)Vlatko 19:22, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Vlatko - give me a weblink to a neutral or official website. What propaganda you find on maknews.org stays out of Wikipedia. --Telex 21:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow, you are really sad , im sorry but, a little bit too brainwashed, nationalistic ??? it is the official flag, ACCEPT IT. you cant do anything about it , just as we cant do anything about you greeks using the sun. ok?? just accept it, and go put your energy in some pasok article. --Makedonia 00:39, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

religion

yes i did experienced it ;) --Makedonia 00:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Shop

Are you trying to ruin my shop's reputation or something?  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 00:55, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Userbox

Oh yes, it friggin' does :) No one really takes me seriously, but hell, I really would support such a federation! :P Todor Bozhinov  → 10:13, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

TLD

It's a very big issue. None can tell - Montenegro seems to have some ideas (as the leaders have been politicly pushing for independence for a long time), but there is no incinuation for Serbia. --HolyRomanEmperor 13:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

mk.wiki

You are really fighting a lost cause there. Many have tried before you and failed :) There is a saying, a wiki cannot be more objective than its administrators. Dont feel bad for them though, if that is what they want to read so be it.  /FunkyFly.talk_   16:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you join me - it's fun :-) --Telex 16:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

You have very creative ways of entertaining yourself, but I'd rather pass on that one  /FunkyFly.talk_   16:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Let me summarize for you the principles of mk.wikie:

1. It is OK for a "Macedonian" to curse a non-Macedonian. You can't however get away with the opposite.
2. The wikipedia is not only in the Macedonian language, it is Macedonian period, and as such it presents the doctrine of the government of the Republic of Macedonia.
3. Therefore, statements in conflict with this official doctrine are not admitted, even if they are properly sourced, because they are in their nature disruptive to that doctrine, and are treated as propaganda.

Hope that makes it clear for you.

PS. That might be a good idea for an article - Criticism of the Macedonian language wikipedia

 /FunkyFly.talk_   17:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Check the history of the article on "Pirin Macedonia". You'll see a Bulgarian user removing the pre 1995 flag, and an admin restoring (with rollback) it and then protecting the page. That's what admins do here with vandalism problems - in other words, opposing POVs = vandalism @ mkwiki. --Telex 17:28, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

And that is our friend FlavrSavr.  /FunkyFly.talk_   17:33, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

You really should read mk:Разговор со корисник:Telex. Do if you enjoy a good laugh. --Telex 17:34, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I did, and it felt like I've read it already in some discussions here. Especially the nazism part.  /FunkyFly.talk_   17:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Check the revision history of mk:User:Tomahawk - you'll see that certain userboxes are not tolerated and admins will use rollback to achieve this end. --Telex 17:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, don't forget to investigate the martyrdom of mk:User:GrekoMakedonski a.k.a. User:Asteraki. --Telex 17:41, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

They have a saying in Bulgaria - Macedonian is not an origin, it's a profession.  /FunkyFly.talk_   17:47, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Shakespeare says me thinks thou doth protest too much. I think this applies perfectly here. When users feel they have to say "This user is a *MACEDONIAN*" (e.g. User:Realek, User:Risto Stefov, mk:User:Македонец etc), that probably means they are insecure about their identity, but are trying to convince the world that they are not. --Telex 17:52, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I can bet that Makedonec has read the 10 lies.  /FunkyFly.talk_   22:33, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

LOL - that sounds a good book. I should see if it's available over here, It'd be worth the investment. I loved this ;-) --Telex 22:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

They have the Macedonian version online.  /FunkyFly.talk_   22:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

3RRV Reporting

Please use difs, not versions, it makes it much easier to see what is going on. JoshuaZ 01:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I did (eventually). --Telex 01:08, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Ean theleis rikse mia matia ston 'ellino-tourkiko polemo'. Enas anonymos agnoei tis piges kai bazei ta dika tou. Miskin 20:11, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Please stop

Please can you stop with your hate toward serb.You may have to look at Serbophobia,because it looks like you got it Dzoni 02:08, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Montenegrins

Am I the only one who tries to discuss the "Montenegrins and their ethnicity" section? As I said on the Talk:Montenegrins, the section is an overlong collection of wikiquotes that cannot be fixed, borderline to WP:POINT. And I didn't blank it out entirely, but properly moved it to the talk page so that people could discuss. No one seems to reading talk pages... sigh... Duja 14:49, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

If that section is contrary to WP:POINT, then the quotes section at Ancient Macedonians certainly is. If the quotes seem to be one sided, then the thing to do would be to use quotes indicating the opposite. Thus far, the only person who seems to be having a problem with it is you. Be that as it may, I'm not going to edit war with you over it. As long as you're sure you know what you're doing. --Telex 14:56, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your efforts in the Bulgarian cities articles.  /FunkyFly.talk_   15:55, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Elava to mhnyma sou meta tin anastrofi... --Hectorian 23:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

aha

oh, and you aren't?? :) You are in danger of violating the three-revert rule on Makedonska Kamenica municipality. Please cease further reverts or you may be blocked from further editing. --Makedonia 21:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

makedonia?

you think i am the aureus poto something useR?? well i really am not, im sorry. you are saying me that im breaking the rules with reverting, but what about you?? you have reverted that wikipage the same amount as me, probably even more. isnt that hypocrit? --Makedonia 00:04, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Of course not ;-) --Telex 00:05, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

well if you are so smart, go check it up, i know we have and had our problems on the wikipages, but honestly i am not aureus poto user. --Makedonia 00:07, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I can't be bothered. It's midnight here - goodnight. --Telex 00:08, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

well i think that's really low from you, i for example respect everyone on wiki, and don't start acusing people of something he or she didn't even do, but well, good night then --Makedonia 00:13, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

... says the person who's manipulating flags.  /FunkyFly.talk_   00:23, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Interested?

Hi, Recently I have realised that there is a grouping of Turkish nationalists in Wikipedia with the objective of turning Kurdish related articles into Turkish propagandas. Would you like to start a project with me called "WikiProject Kurds" to better organize information in articles related to the Kurds. Regards. Ozgur Gerilla 02:27, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Serbians group

Serbians group is working in en:Wiki 1 out of Wikipedia Law. user page Crna gora:

Slušaj, ja neću ništa za sada da pokrećem protiv tebe, ali te poslednji put upozoravam za tvoje dobro. Ima preko 50 Srba na ovoj Wikipediji, pazi šta će da bude ako se svi okrenu protiv tebe. Skloni samo tu reč, Srbi, i sve je OK. Ubaci C-c-c-c ako hoćeš, ja sam ga već upozorio. -- serbiana - talk 01:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Transletit:

Listen, I will do at now nothing agains you, but I say to you for the last time, for your good. We are more than 50 Serbian user in this Wikipedia, Atencion/(Watch out) what is going to happend when they are goig to be agains/(roul) you.

Is this wikipedia, they are working together and abourting every user wich is traing to saying his opinion or putin the documentation wich is not according to they politic. Somebody must do something again this group. --Hipi Zhdripi 08:27, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Re.

I don't see that putting Republic of Albania in the box is not extremely dangerous POV. Plus, remember the compromise made few weeks ago? Bomac 12:09, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, you should know that Chameria and Epirus ,,get in" Greater Albania. Maybe we should put Republic of Albania in the Greece article... Hmmm... ;-) Bomac 12:13, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I like the nowadays borders. They fit me ;-) But one day we will be all united in Europe (I think) Bomac 12:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Telex, everyone has the right to state his/hers political views on his/hers userpage. BTW, this is Wikipedia, and not the... uh... whatever which ,,creates" borders. Bomac 12:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind it, absolutely. According to me, you can put a userbox in which you claim that you've visited the Borgs. Bomac 12:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

3RR by Tamzigh on Rathore page

Your reversion on this page has again been reverted by this user. This user has reverted changes three times on this page even after warning. Siddiqui 13:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Greek minorities category

Hi, did you see that Category:Greek identifying distinct groups in Greece is up for deletion? Sorry I didn't actually see it was you who created it before I voted "delete" - please see my reasons on the vote page. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:56, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I do - see here. I think I'll abstain - personally, I don't have a problem with Category:Ethnic groups in Greece; I just thought it would be a good way to bypass some issues other users seem to have. --Telex 15:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Ah, right, I see. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:03, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Request

Hey, can you please add User:Legendary T.H.U.G. to WP:AIV? Also you can report Greier for a 3RRvio at [[Phanariotes]. —Khoikhoi 17:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, no can do. I must go off line now. Ask someone else (NikoSilver?) to do it. --Telex 17:32, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Den peirazei, min to bazeis kato! Tha parathesoume tis piges s'ena simeio kai meta tha tous anagkazoume na spane to 3rr. The fane ta block tous kai kapoia stigmi tha ta paratisoune, etsi ginetai panta. Den empisteuomai kanenan antministratora. Miskin 18:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC) Ego eimai yper tou na mi tou dinoume kai poly tharros. Oso pio kathetoi eimaste toso pio grigora tha ta paratisei. Miskin 19:59, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Me peirazei dioti den exei parathesei oute mia pigi mexri tora kai einai geleia ta epixeirimata tou, to blepeis kai o idios. Exo prostateusei auto to arthro apo poly pio eksypnous xristes kai den skopeuo na lygiso se auton. Nomizo pos an eixes akolouthisei tin idia sou tin symbouli (na min tou dosoume apantisi) tha eixe fygei. Tora milise kai o allos kai exei parei aera. Miskin 20:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Ma to ti itan i mana tou i o pateras tou den exei kamia sxesi me to ti itan i idioi kai me to pos anagnorizontai simera. To thema einai oti kanenas den tous exei apokelesei 'boulgarous' i 'slabous', asxeta ti exoun pei gia ti mana tous (edosa to paradeigma kai me ton Skentempei). Autes oi piges to mono pou mas ypoxreonoun na kanoume einai na anaferoume kapou oti "yparxoun isxirismoi oti i mana tous itan Slava", pragma pou ginetai idi sto arthro. Miskin 20:50, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

De symfoneis mazi mou se auto to thema? To NPOV metraei mono gia isxyouses theories kai oxi gia original research. Otan to WP:CITE exei ikanopoiithei, mono tote mporoume na poume pos yparxei xoros gia deuteri apopsi. Auta pou aneferes os piges milane gia ti mana tou Kyrilou kai einai katagegrammena idi sto artro.Miskin 22:04, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

About the violation you pointed

I will apreciate if oyu explain me. Thanx--->>><<< 01:39, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

re:LOL

We know each other for a long time, so I can read you too;) MatriX 18:25, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

United Macedonia

Cool, I actually had a stub sitting in my userspace for a while -- I merged it in. Hope you like the image ;) - FrancisTyers 23:04, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Asteraki

Hmmm... give me a proof... You awfully have a LOT in common... Bomac 11:49, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Saints Cyril and Methodius

Do you agree with current state of affairs. User:Miskin reverted your change. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saints_Cyril_and_Methodius&diff=55308956&oldid=55305776

Hey

Could you please ask Hipi, nicely, to stop making my wiki-life miserable? He's tortureng me. --HolyRomanEmperor 14:18, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Re.

I'm not telling you because, in this case, HONESTLY, you are being hypocritical. BTW, I'm on my way to ask Francis about this issue. Bomac 15:18, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, you do. Bomac 15:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

OPEN your eyes and READ the languagebox. Bomac 15:23, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, it seems pretentious and false to me. Bomac 15:36, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. Bomac 15:39, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

It's the same thing. You should do the operation 10-2, not 10+2 ;-) Thus, verify still does the trick. Bomac 15:49, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Ah... I've always been The Stranger for the 3RR rule... ;-) Bomac 16:18, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Macedonism

Well, is the greek understanding of the term the same as the bulgarian one? Which Macedonian culture was taken as the basis for the creation of the macedonian nation. Please can you explain me the term helenism.--Vlatko 21:16, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, Macedonism can still mean Greek culture and influence of.--Vlatko 21:16, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Does it really? Hellenism is so much more widely used.  /FunkyFly.talk_   19:37, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

We don't talk about the use of its meanings, but of the meanings. If you want make a table wich meaning is more or little used on google.--Vlatko 12:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, as far as I know, Macedonism in Greece (Μακεδονισμός [14]) refers to the qualities that the Macedonian Slavs are trying to adopt to make themselves Macedonians. I'm not really certain if this fits into the article, because the article discusses an ideology, not a set of qualities. Think of the word "Macedonianness" as a synonym. --Telex 22:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, when you are not sure in what the term means, than build an atitude. And what is the term Greece related. Macedonism as an term describes not only a proces of creating macedonian nation, but means entirely influence and existence of Macedonia. And as we know Macedonia is an controversal point. Can mean influence of the (as you believe) Greek Macedonia and culture of, more or a little in use, it means so.--Vlatko 12:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Excuse

I'd like to excuse myself about the personal attack toward you. It was unintentional. Nedko^{self bias resist} 19:33, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

OK. --Telex 22:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Macedonian names of towns in south Macedonia (greek part)

OK, I agree that they should be not on the main page, but you should put on the page for the town description its macedonian name.

I think that you know them, so I should not repeat them?

It will be neutral.

Re.

Well, another reason why it should be putted there is that. Bomac 14:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

BTW, Cyril and Methodius are the creators of the Macedonian alphabet as well. Bomac 14:08, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Bomac, please see the existing contents of Category:Macedonian culture. They are exclusively to do with the modern Republic of Macedonia, and Cyril and Methodius are unrelated to the Republic of Macedonia (they were born in Thessaloniki). If your only argument to including that category is that they created the Glagolitic (not Cyrillic) alphabet, then I think you should include categories on Bulgarian, Russian, Serbian, Ukrainian and even Tatar and Mongolian culture as all they use the Cyrillic alphabet. --Telex 14:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know for the others, but there is a category:Bulgarian culture. Bomac 14:12, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Now, since your pall has reverted this. cat., I think we should add all those cultures in alphabetical order. Nice gesture of yours if you do that... Bomac 14:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Why don't yo add that category? So you you wan't to deny that these people are important for Macedonian culture? Bomac 11:36, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand - what do you want? --Telex 11:37, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Sxolia

Mporeis na ton karfwseis epeidi se eipe fasista kai epeidi vandalise ti selida sou. Mporeis episis na ton afiseis na griniazei oso thelei...allwste, gi'afto nomizw oti ta pire kai epitethike sti selida sou...: epeidi den mporei na epitethei se sena stin pragmatikotita (xeroume poios einai aimovoros:p). des to mail sou. --Hectorian 14:42, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Grafeis kai stin skopianiki wikipedia re thirio? :) O Hectorian exei dikio, mporeis na ton karfoseis kai stin aggliki wikipedia to WP:NPA isxyei pantou. Miskin 15:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Einai xameni istoria i skopianiki wikipedia nomizo. Pos kai milas ti glossa tous? Miskin 15:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Imoun sigouros gi auto. Eides ta edits pou ekana tis proalles sti skopianiki glossa? Kai ta albanika pos kai ta milas? Miskin 16:30, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Pisteueis oti ta arthra twn Arvanitwn kai twn Arvanitikwn theloun beltiosi? Miskin 13:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Mia hara nomizo oti ine. I mises piyes tis Wikipedia eki ine. Ime veveos oti an ta protiname na yinun featured articles the pernusan. Ides tin allayi pu ekana sto arthro ya tus apostolus ton slavon? Kane epanafora an thelis - des ke ti sizitisi pano ap' afto to section. --Telex 13:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Prosopika den to theoro lathos na yparxoun katigories Slavikon ethnon ekei. H moni antirisi pou exo einai os pros to onoma tis katigorias to opoio theoro pos prepei na allaksei se 'Macedonian culture (Slavic)' gia eunoitous logous. Oso paramenei sketo 'Macedonian culture' eimai kata tou na to blepo opoudipote. Miskin 14:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Aku, den yinete na sizitisis mazi tus - den yinonde etsi rename ta categories. Des to e-mail su. --Telex 14:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Ti les gia metafora tou 'Greek Macedonians' se Macedonians (Greek)? Blepeis ta pleonektimata? Miskin 15:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Kali idea - ti leas ya "Macedonians (Greeks)"? --Telex 15:52, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Sou apantisa se email. Miskin 16:09, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Euxaristo gia tin proidopoihsi alla gia pio pragma na me karfosei? Gia 2 rvts? Des ti tou egrapsa sto talk, de sevetai katholou to NPOV. Miskin 23:48, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Den to skopeuo, alla epimeno pos exo dyo. To proto den einai rv einai edit. Kala einai kai poly blakas. :) Miskin 23:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Re einai dyo pou sou leo, koita kalytera ;). To 2o pou leei gia 'undue weigh' den einai rv, einai edit pou ekana prin prolabo na do to rv tou. S'euxaristo gia tin ypostiriksi, the faei ta moutra tou mou fainetai. Miskin 00:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Nope

It's not Bonny, I know Bonny, and this ain't him. Look here how he reverted to Greier's version. If it was Bonny then he would be attacking his normal pages. —Khoikhoi 18:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've added him to CheckUser. —Khoikhoi 18:12, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Revert

Do you want to revert all your edits? I don't think you will like that...it's exactly what you're doing with my edits. It's not nice of you, you know?--Vlachul 19:55, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I think you know why you are getting reverted, Bonaparte, see WP:NPOV. This is especially so on Aromanians. --Telex 19:57, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Let me say something to you Telex, you should not use WP:NPOV as a pretext to cover your edits, with other words why your POV edits are good and my NPOV not? --Vlachul 20:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually (on Aromanians at least) both versions are POV, because the opposing POV is being deleted. I think they should be merged - what do you think? --Telex 20:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

What do I think? As if really matter to you...but to be polite I will answer you Telex, I think it's tottaly wrong to erase the word Romanians and replace it with Latin people. Do you agree with me? --Vlachul 20:13, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

See me on Talk:Aromanians in a few minutes. --Telex 20:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

email

Give me your email Telex. --Vlachul 20:48, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Go to Special:Preferences and enter your e-mail. Click on save, then check your e-mail. --Telex 20:49, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Next time, now a short nap. --Vlachul 21:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Sub-page

I created a new sub-page: User:NikoSilver/List of POV edits by Slavomacedonians. Feel free to post all relative garbage in an organised manner, just for the record.  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 10:12, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Ack! Sorry, sorry, sorry...  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 10:59, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Ohrid

its absolutely insane to add the Albanian name on the header page. albanian is not a official language, it is only in municipalities with more than 80% albanian inhabitants, ohrid does not have such an albanian community, and its already mentioned in the Name History part. so please stop adding nonsense. --Makedonia 11:19, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Well then why have you (not you person) added the definitely non-official Slavic name to (for example) Serres, Greece? --Telex 11:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Because Seres has a "Slavic" history, as you call it and should be mentioned. on the serres page, the slavic form of the name isnt mentioned in the box right, it is mentioned in the content about serres. as is the albanian and greek form mentioned in the "Name history" content of the ohrid page. --Makedonia 13:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

You in Greece do not learn that Macedonia is Greek?

Whell, I'm realy greatefull to you that in the article about macedonism you support that. I' makeing you a favor, what can be the meaning of the word macedonism, There are also and Greek POV, you have not to read it from somewhere, you can also uderstand it. I see no poinwt why are you reverting the article, but I'm giving up. There is no point whan you are blind.---User:Vlatkoto:Vlatko 15:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Mail

Hi, could you check your mail please? Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:02, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Survey on the use of Latinized/Greek names for Byzantine rulers Follow Up

Greetings. As a recent contributor to the survey on the names of Byzantine rulers at Talk:Constantine XI, you may be interested in the following. A mediation sought by Panairjdde resulted in the recommendation that "that proposal two from this page be implemented in the short term, until a consensus can be reached about proposal three". Accordingly, before resuming the editorial process, I am seeking feedback on whether option 2 or 3 of the former survey is more acceptable. Please state (or re-state) your opinion in the follow up survey on Talk:Constantine XI. Thank you for your time, Imladjov 14:50, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Romaioi

Hey Telex, what is the relation between Romaioi and Romanians/Vlachs in Greece? --Preacher, or Princelet 18:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll tell you in a minute. Do some background reading at Names of the Greeks and know that Romanians in Greek is Roumanoi. Romioi refers to Greeks. --Telex 18:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

BTW can you do something for me? This khoikhoi is adding his shit on my page, after that he said I will be blocked for erasing it. Do something. --Preacher, or Princelet 18:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Why Romioi refers to Greeks? --Preacher, or Princelet 18:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

See Names of the Greeks#Romans (Ρωμαίοι) and Romioi (Ρωμιοί). --Telex 18:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Macedonism

I dont think that the Bulgarian article "Македонистика"/Macedonistics is the same as Macedonism. As far as I am aware, Macedonistics deals primarily with the language, and not so much so with history and ethnogenesis.  /FunkyFly.talk_   19:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

OK - I'll remove the interwikis. --Telex 19:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

It will be a good idea to start Macedonistics over here.  /FunkyFly.talk_   19:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Makedon for the Ancient Greek one and I assume for the region as well (not positive). Makedonia for FYROM.--Eupator 20:56, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

That's correct. --Eupator 22:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Des ligo to terminology. Teleiwsa. Einai ok? (sorry gia to plagiarism apo ton xarth sou sto talk:fyrom... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 21:52, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Ipotheto oti gnorizis oti to idio kimeno hrisimopiite sto United Macedonia. --Telex 21:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Exei kai polla alla ekei. To exw balei footnote to united. To eides? An oute kan esy, na to baloume sto ar8ro mesa.  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 22:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

HRE

Shiko ç po folë për mua User talk:Dijxtra#Hipi Zdhripi përdoruesi User:HolyRomanEmperor. Këto janë akuza dhe atakime personale. Nuk e di nëse ke njohuri për serbokroatishte por me siguri se do ta kuptonë. Une asnjëher nuk ju kamë kërcnuar ati. E ti më thoje të hekë shënimin për të.--Hipi Zhdripi 02:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

RfC

Exeis kanei tipota me to ethnic group rfc? Koita ti lene oi kakes glwsses :-)  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 09:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Noticeboard

Great idea! I think FlavrSavr had a similar idea in the past, but was shouted down. Kudos for taking the initiative. - FrancisTyers 18:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I've watchlisted both the noticeboard and your new Slavic article. Nice work. Let me know if you need any support. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Mporeis na pros8eseis sth selida mou ayta pou eleges gia ton Asteraki kai ton allo Boulgaro xrhsth (sbhsimo selidas kai mplok)? Mporeis epishs na metafraseis tis le3eis pou den exei metafrasei o funky (meta to "pe8anete oloi oi ellhnes")? An den 8es na bwmoloxhseis dhmosiws steilto mou me mail.  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 20:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Ton eixa rwthsei ton funky. Den 3erei leei. Des 3 sections ap'to telos... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 20:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Orea, den ime veveos, alla dite:

• DE THA TO EPITREPSO TELIA KE PAVLA! NA TO EPITREPSUN PROTA I ELLINES
• IPA DE THA TO EPITREPSO, MEHRI NA INE ANANGEO AFISTE ME!!! THA TUS KANI NA THELUN NA TO KANUN!!!
• Afiste me isiho, alla pote den tha simfiliotho, esis na epitrepsete mono! PAROLO PU DE VAZUN I ELLINES TI SIMEA MAS?????
• TO EHETE IPOPSI SAS ANTHROPI???

--Telex 21:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Dhladh gia na katalabw: O typos pisteyei oti prepei na zhthsoume emeis na proste8ei to Ellhnikh dipla sto Makedonia, anti to Aigaiakh dipla sto Makedonia? Kai giati na mas peirazei to ena h to allo? Komple3ikoi eimaste? Kai ta dyo (Ellas-Aigaio) dika mas den einai? 8a ton parakalesoume kiolas? Ama 8eloume na diaxwrisoume th dikia mas apo thn "dikia" tous, mporoume na baloume dipla oti 8eloume. Aytos giati den koitaei na balei tipota dipla sto onoma tou na teleiwnoume?  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 21:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Theli na valume stin Elliniki Wikipedia ti palia simea ton Skopion (afti me to asteri tis verginas) ke to onoma Egeaki Macedonia. --Telex 21:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Esy ti les gi'ayta?  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 22:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't give a ****. --Telex 22:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, I see you have figured out the translations. Good job.   /FunkyFly.talk_   19:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Can we work out something on...

...this and this? How can I help?  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 09:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

well i must, when i got a new source, that source says im right. --Makedonia 16:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Vlatoko

Feel free to revert if you think it really was a sensible comment to make in light of what you could clearly see I was attempting to do. I fear my work might be in vain though, following, "Aha, so you the choose to be neutral", that comment. - FrancisTyers 16:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Vlachs

The open proxy is banned. - FrancisTyers 18:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, but I already saw. I've had enough for now. He's being blocked for three hours. - FrancisTyers 18:08, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Good work, did you see my comments at the noticeboard btw? And did you receive the email I sent? - FrancisTyers 18:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I was rather referring to the formatting thing :) - FrancisTyers 18:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Hah. - FrancisTyers 20:52, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought that Mr. the Vlach was a sock. - FrancisTyers 21:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

It is - that's been proven in the edition history of User talk:Mikkalai. It was a sock of Bonaparte. Bonaparte generally likes to have nationalistic userpages, e.g. User:Stefan cel Mare, etc. --Telex 21:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry

I used your signature with no intention. Hope you wont mind.--Vlatko 23:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad you do so :-), sorry again.--Vlatko 23:37, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

So does that mean you did it intentionally? :)   /FunkyFly.talk_   21:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Had no reason for, and I'm not so stupid to do such obvious things.--Vlatko 23:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

If you say so.   /FunkyFly.talk_   21:43, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

RoM

Telex, really, did you expect it to remain? First this isn't even a statement of the PM, but of a minister; second, it's months I monitor Macedonia-related articles, and not even a flimsy shadow of proof has as yet been given of a native Greek community; I don't see why we should mix true and real ethnic groups with a non-existant one, and giving highly misleading numbers, given in obvious bad faith (not you, the minister). Independent sources do speak of a Macedonian minority in Greece, but not of a Greek minority in Macedonia. Also, I don't see the claim made by the gov. of Macedonia that 230,000 Macedonian Slavs live in Greek Macedonia in Greece; or the map User:Macedonia maid claiming a million Macedonian Slavs in Greece.--Aldux 21:58, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

That there were Greeks in 1941 is possible; after all, before 1912 the slavs and greeks were often quite mixed, and Slavs remained south of the border, so some probably remained north; but very few sources have been given up to now. What appears almost certain is that it doesn't exist anymore, at least as a community; no NGO has been able to find them, nor the Greek government (that, I suspect, must have searched damned hard ;-)). Ciao. --Aldux 22:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

You're talking about them being assimilated into Tito's Macedonian national(ist) project. Most likely... --Telex 22:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Ioannina

Γειά σου Telex! Είδα ότι έγραψες στο άρθρο για τα Γιάννινα και τα ονόματα σε άλλες γλώσσες. Είμαι σύμφωνος με αυτό -κατ' αρχάς-, αλλά ίσως χρειάζεται λίγη σκέψη; Πρώτον, με ποιά κριτήρια θα διαλέξουμε τις γλώσσες, ιδίως όταν δεν υπάρχουν επισημα αναγνωρισμένες γλωσσικές μειονότητες; Για τα αλβανικά το καταλαβαίνω το σκεπτικό - στην πόλη ζουν και Αλβανοί. Για τα Aromanian το ίδιο, αλλά είναι κάπως τραβηγμένο, νομίζω. (Εδώ ίσως έχει εφαρμογή και το WP:NPOV#Undue weight). Αλλά τα τούρκικα; Εκτός αν τα κριτήρια είναι ιστορικά, οπότε αλλάζει το πραγμα. Η δεύτερη ένστασή μου είναι πρακτική και αισθητική: αν καθίσουμε να γράψουμε κάθε δυνατό τύπο (3 στα Ελληνικά, 2 στα Αλβανικά -οριστικό και αόριστο- κ.ο.κ.) ίσως γίνει το άρθρο κάπως δυσανάγνωστο. Υπάρχει μήπως τρόπος να μπούν τα ονόματα στο πλάι, όπως στο άρθρο για την Ελλάδα; TheArchon 22:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Ναι, ιστορικά. Με αυτή τη βάση υπάρχουν τα ελληνικά και τα αρμένικα ονόματα σε όλες τις Τούρκικες πόλεις (Τραπεζούντα κλπ). --Telex 22:18, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Slav-Macedonians

just added titles to slav-macedonians article; hope you dont mind--Greece666 22:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Why would I mind? I don't own the article ;-) --Telex 22:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

actually your titles were better :). you can also have a look at rainbow.--Greece666 23:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Your Rainbow ones are fine (i.e. I can't think of any better ones) :-) --Telex 23:05, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

map

nice map, good job, but it would be better instead of mentioning "SLAV" to mention "Macedonian" or "Macedonian (Slav)". but well, again good job. --Makedonia 14:42, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Userpage

Sure, doesn't contravene the guidelines. Personally I think the bit about "Bulgarian dialect" is a bit puerile, but hardly warrants unilateral action. - FrancisTyers 14:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

haha

if you've read carefully you would know what i have said, i said: we will simply expell the greek majority, just like the greeks did to us:) but i think if it will happen the most of the greeks will move out of macedonia by themselves anyway, and if none of these above, then let them stay, its important macedonia is united, so long those greeks dont make any serious problems, they could stay, we can live together in harmony, the most important thing is that Macedonia is once again a united country.

are you worrying so much about a possible united macedonia, that you repeat your questions and statements so many timeS??;) you even want a federation with albania with macedonia in it :P , thats probably the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard of hahah but well you should give the fed. a try of course ;).

oh yeah, and your statements and mentioning about Greeks living in Rep. of Macedonia, first of all there aren't any official independent sources on any greeks living in RoM, second, and if there is a greek minority in RoM, so what? do you think we, macedonians have a problem with that? no we don't, we accept it and don't see it as a problem, let them live here, let them be greeks, we are not as you greeks are, who are denying any ethnic minorities.

it is not an insult to us macedonians or a problem, so please mention the greek minority on RoM pages that there is a greek minority, however unfortunately there are no independent sources on them, at least i've never seen such, thats the diffirence between Greeks and Macedonians, we Macedonians dont hate Greeks or have any problems with greeks, but we are just defending our nation and our history from being falsified and claimed by surrounding countries, we dont deny any minorities forbid people to be what they want to be and what they are. but not all greeks are like that, i know many greeks who dont even have a problem with macedonia and the macedonians, who also recognize macedonia by her real name and who accept Alexander and ancient macedonians being macedonian rather than greeks. --Makedonia 15:35, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

well, then probably there are some, i dont know and almost nobody knows, i dont have any problem if there is a greek minority in rep. of macedonia. i do know that in the city of Ohrid wich im from, there were some Greeks in the past, but i have no actual information on them today.--Makedonia 16:08, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

The map is OK, to be honest, I don't know much about that issue, but the idea is great.But, accidentaly I made a revert there!:( (I forgot what rev link means) Please correct it if the revert was bad.MatriX 19:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

re

we dont have anything to do with slavs, except for the language, and a part of our population in the northern rep of macedonia wich is mixed and probably almost 90% of serbian origin. Slavs are more an Linguistic group rather than a Ethnical group, we have macedonian cultures, only our language is slav, but i mean in peru spanish is spoken, does that make peruans spanish? No!

the research you call Discredited, was done by Arnaiz Villena, a well known professor and regarded as the best in this subject. the Pakistanis/indian Greeks you are telling about, are actually macedonians, descendants of alexander and his macedonian soldiers.

there was a research on them and many documentaries, those people are claiming themselves to be Macedonians, instead of Greeks, at least thats what they say.!:)

read this letter:

Dear Hardevji,

Kindly accept my best wishes. I have come to know of you through a website that you are descendent of Alexander the Great or his army. Incidentally, Porus the Great and I have common ancestry. I am a professing Sikh, Khukhrain Khatri by lineage. I got your mail ID through your genealogical cousin Risto Stefov.

You may be knowing Mohayals are Brahmins, Coorgs of Karnataka are Kshatriyas, all of them and few tribes in north-east India are believed to be descendents of Macedonians. Some Jatts and Jats also believe they are Macedonian blood.

Dear Hardev, as you are descendent of Macedonia and Singh you are probably a Sikh or Hindu from Punjab or Kashmir. In Punjab Macedonians may have preserved independent racial identity, but not separate language, rituals or culture. I would like to know more about you and credence of your believe. It will be source of enlightenment to me. Few Ladhakis and Gujjars North of Baramulla are maintaining old Macedonian resembling rituals. To the best of my knowledge the pockets where the distinct Macedonian culture, language and racial integrity is continuing is Hunza, Chitral, and Nathiagali but they are all muslims, infact the few non-muslims, mostly Sikhs, in that area were migrants during Mharaja Ranjit Singh period. In1947, most of them left for India, though some of them moved westward and Gilgit. In this period, migrants and Macedonians were peaceful but apathetic neighbors. Even during the Chitral fort besieging in 1894-95 in which British and Sikh solders were trapped and latter rescued by 14 Ferozepore Sikh Infantry, there was no tension amongst civilians.

In India, your distinct culture, linguist, and religious groups are, not even remotely connected with each other or with Macedonia.

You split descendant of Macedonians in India should organize yourself, the heirs of the great-lost race should rediscover themselves. Even if, for any practical reason, integration is impossible & irrelevant, but emotions and nostalgia makes us human and off course better humans. Nevertheless, reemergence of Macedonia as sovereign nation state after long, it must cheer you all. This will be a good academic kit.

This is all out of my quest to discover the past and present of great lost or extinct races and civilizations. I am sorry, if anything offending in this letter, it is not intentional, so, kindly overlook.

Please be in touch.

Yours

Ravi Ranjan Singh Chairman Centre for Legislative Research and Cause India

--Makedonia 00:00, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Just a minor comment concerning those who claim descend from Alexander the Great and his soldiers in India and Pakistan. by picking up one of the regional-ethnic names mentioned above, i made a quike google search (through Google UK, for i do not wanna hear that 'google greece is biased' again:p):so, 'chitral greek' gives 17,500 results [15] and 'chitral macedonian' gives 888 results [16]. Do u know why? simply cause the ancient Macedonians were a greek tribe... btw, the ancient customs and rituals that those populations have preserved, are mentioned in ancient texts as greek:) --Hectorian 00:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Wait a minute, I did a search on the author of that letter, Ravi Ranjan Singh, and this is what I got[17]; then I did a search on Centre for Legislative Research and Cause India and here are the results[18].Then I corrected the spelling for Centre and this is what I got[19].I'm calling BS until that letter is authenticated. Even if this Singh character's name is not found in google searches at least the public research institution he supposedly represends and is a "Chairman" of would have more then likely appeared. As far as Antonio Arnaiz-Villena is concerned, the reason he calls it Discredited is because Arnaiz-Villena work IS discredited. Lets not forget he not only did his work with FRYOMian researchers but he was paid by your own goverment to do it. I'm very familiar with his theories, what he claims in his research work and the fact that his theories on the HLA-DRB1 genetic marker have been disproven by numerious unbiased world-leading geneticists world wide such as: Neil Risch from Stanford University and Alberto Piazza from the University of Torino and L. L. Cavalli-Sforza also from Stanford Unviersity had to say this on the interpretations of Arnaiz-VillenaHow Not to Compare Populations; Mark Jobling author Human Evolutionary GeneticsJobling uses Arnaiz-Villena's work to point the lacked scientific merit Oh, and by the way, Villena's "research" work is not even new...from (Mourant et al., 1976) "HLA genes are not used as a valid measure to determine ancestry since HLA genes, which control immune responses and are subject to environmental selection. This means they're not reliable in determining ancestral affinity, as using them thus can find bonds of kinship between Greeks and Japanese, as well as between Nordics in Iceland and Negroids in the Congo." BINGO!! ~Mallaccaos, 8 June 2006

Gnwmh se ayto?  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 13:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Niko, ego de ksero dopia. Ego ksero liges lexis bulgarikis, ke akoma ligoteri grammatiki. --Telex 13:26, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Favourite quote

Is that really your favourite quote? Or are you just being reactionary? :P - FrancisTyers 16:05, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

You know, Kiro Gligorov was under a lot of pressure back then, newly independent republic and all, so he did not really know what he was talking. But he is excused for his words. What he really meant was to say "Macedonia for the Macedonians".  /FunkyFly.talk_   17:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

So was Demosthenes when he said what is written at User:Makedonia ;-) --Telex 17:08, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Hm, I dont quite see what you mean, but I'll look into it more.   /FunkyFly.talk_   17:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

According to some Republicans

Congratulations, you are now officially a Bulgarian Nationalist!   /FunkyFly.talk_   19:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Is that so - well, if the only people on earth who cite sources and require sources for questionable claims are Bulgarian nationalists, then there's only one thing I can say: съединението прави силата --Telex 19:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Look - a typical Bulgarian nationalist edit. --Telex 20:00, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow, we might have included this edit in that list. According to FlavrSavr, the cause you fight for better expresses your nationality than self-identification.   /FunkyFly.talk_   20:03, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

At least he has softened his positions since then, no reasonable editors try to replace Bulgarians with Macedonians (ethnic group), rather append it. The last step of the way is admitting Macedonians, which should be worked out soon.   /FunkyFly.talk_   20:12, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

"Bulgarian or Macedonian" is silly. If there are no sources calling him Macedonian, then it's final, there's nothing to discuss (has Zdravko mk been blocked yet?). --Telex 20:13, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

No he has not been. I guess it's possible for yet another year of reverts until things settle.   /FunkyFly.talk_   20:20, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Dude, do you consider Google to be the ultimate history telling machine, eh? For now, I will leave this horror and I will leave Goce's page as it is. Just wanted to say, will it be relevant if I publish a page where Goce says "Macedonians are completely different from Bulgarians, Macedonians are Slavs and Bulgarians are Turks (TATARI) and their work is based on destroying Macedonian national sense, so that they can annex Macedonia", will you take this in consideration. I mean, according to your criteria, if Google turns results then it's HISTORICAL FACT, and if not, it's not. By the way, everything that Bulgarians were doing during the ages was forging, hiding truth and propaganda against every single Macedonian movement. After all, there are many web-sites where you can find information, letters and other authentical facts that prove Goce to be a Macedonian fighting for Macedonian freedom. And why the hell do you care, aren't you just an Albanian who lives in Aegian Maceodnian (so called Greek Macedonia) and who is assimilated by the Greek nationalistic politics? Ok, never mind, you don't understand either.. Love you :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.162.235.22 (talk • contribs)

Wisely spoken, like a true Republican.   /FunkyFly.talk_   20:20, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear anon, Google is not the ultimate telling machine. I need a telling machine. That addition of yours was totally unsupported and it solely depended on whether everyone else believed your word. For some reason, however, I don't feel comfortable doing that, sorry :-) --Telex 20:32, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Please take this into consideration

I think you have once spoken to a user Macedonian or Makedonec or something.. I relly don't see what your point is. Destroying everything that is Macedonian, just like everyone else in the past did to the Macedonians (I'm talking about the Serbs, Albanians, Greeks and Bulgarians the most). No-one ever said that we are the true decendants of the Ancient Macedonia, who were a Hellenic nation. Macedonian Slavs took pretty much of the left culture and symbols of the Ancient Macedonians, such as the Vergina Star (the Sun with 16 rays) and they might have mixed with the left Ancient Macedonians (the Slavs with the Ancient Macedonians), but no-one has ever said that we are Ancient Macedonians lol. There are some doubts about king Samoil or Petar Deljan or sth.. but, there is no doubt and I'm more that sure that Goce Delchev was a Macedonian revolutionary, who fought for Macedonians, and had nothing to do with the Bulgarians. In many occasions he said that Bulgarians try to make a different flow of the Macedonian movement (in their greatbulgarian fictions) and he once said: "all until my arm can hold a rifle, NO Bulgarian officer will command Macedonians!" I really haven't got time now, and I think that the whole time in the world will not be enough to reveal some truths, which are based on facts, science and documents (and logic!), but that's it, that's our (MACEDONIAN) fate, that's our destiny, a great sadness and tragedy for us there is. Wish you well..

And by the way, I'm not anon, I just didn't feel like logging in.. 2lazy, what can u do.. that's why I didn't provide any sources or anything else that could satisfy you (hmm.. WHAT could satisfy you? Maybe just the plain lies, everything contrary to the truth about Macedonians). Never mind, see ya.

comment

First of all, history is for historians, not for politicians, and especially not the politicians from the (Political Banana)Republic of Macedonia, give them a full wallet and they will even sell their mothers. second, In that time Macedonia was in the process of independency and looking to create foreign relations, he said that to not make any tenions on that matter, in that important time for the republic of Macedonia. Mr gligorov can speak for himself, but not for his fellow-Macedonians. --Makedonia 21:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

those were diffirent times, you cant compare demosthenes with someone like mr Gligorov. --Makedonia 22:08, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

maybe demosthenes was lying, we dont know--Makedonia 22:19, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

List of Slavic names of Greek towns and villages

Click the link. ;) - FrancisTyers 12:37, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Moldovans

Dear Telex, this is not your fight. Please don't edit there any more. If you support a stalinist, old communist view that moldovans=russians so be it. But you'll have only Node as your friend and you'll be reverted on site. Moldovans=romanians and you or others cannot change this. Judge better and choose your friends. --193.109.91.134 12:59, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Map

Why should I make another map, so you could abuse it with your claims like the other one?

"The region of Macedonia as perceived by Macedonian irredentists"

-So I guess I am this Macedonian "irredentist" since I was the one who made the map

"Ethnic Macedonian nationalists have expressed irredentist claims"

"The roots of the concept can be traced back to 1946"

Macedonia 14:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Serbophobia/anti-Serbism

Hi! I do see, now, that I wasn't supposed to do the move by copy-pasting (WP:MOVE#Page histories), but I would be grateful if you would explain to me how exactly my move is a violation of the GFDL. Perhaps I'm missing something, I'm not that experienced here? --85.187.44.131 17:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! --85.187.44.131 17:47, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Glorious Stalin

Heh, I was going to have "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic", but that would be too sick, don't you think? ;) —Khoikhoi 19:38, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Seek is all the facts related to Stalin, including deportation of millions of romanians from Bessarabia. Not to mention moldovan paradigm. Too many confusion for ignorant or bad faith people. Yes, you don't have to agree with me but it's the truth. --141.14.139.166 20:02, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Certainly. --Telex 19:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey, have you heard that new song by Shakira by any chance? —Khoikhoi 19:41, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Ckemi

Mbase duhet ta raportosh ate qe po nderron artikujt gjithandej, per 3RR? Si duket po te lodh, e ska zgjidhje tjeter pervec raportimit. Mos humb kohe me ta. Shihet qellimi i tyre ketu. Gjith te mirat, ilir_pz 22:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Your name is being mentioned quite often here, you might wanna share your opinion, for the sake of the truth. ilir_pz 00:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Funny Ilir, why tell him in Albanian? Are you hiding something?:)))) C-c-c-c 00:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Just like you talk in Serbian all the time. Nothing bad with me using my mother-tongue, is there? Besides there is some English, too, so that you understand. :)ilir_pz 00:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually I don't speak it all the time, rarely if ever. Only to practice my writing skills here at times...which are horrendous at best. But since everyone else can understand Serbian (Albanians, Croatians, Bosnians) and no one else can presumably understand Albanian then we can assume you're collaborating, or no? Anyways, have you seen that physics problem..it's pretty tricky.:)) C-c-c-c 00:47, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Not all Albanians understand Serbian. Actually none from the new generations. I do not solve physics problems for people that annoy me. Guess who does?! Yeah, it's pretty tricky, but simple as well. Take care,ilir_pz 00:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh well, If I can live with KLA still being around and killing innocent people, I guess can live without getting that physics problem solved:P. P.S. 4.9m/s, not so tough now is it?:) Have a nice one, C-c-c-c 00:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

whatever..ilir_pz 01:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Nikola Karev

Can you be more constructive here? Have you seen the discussion? Why do you think that my edit is unsupported. Please be more constructive. You are erasing even the POV template. Do you need to be so nationalistic? Why? (Zdravko mk 12:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC))

Did Karev ever declare himself a Macedonian? Did a Macedonian ethnicity exist then? The answer to both questions is no, so until you cite a source proving otherwise, there's nothing to discuss, including your personal attacks on the article's talk page. --Telex 12:25, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Did Karev ever declare himself a Bulgarian? Do you have an evidence about that? Karev wasn't fucked nationalist like you and he wasn't interest in the ethic side of the problem. And have you even seen my edit, before reverting it? I have written there that Karev "was a socialist and revolutionary, which both the Macedonians and Bulgarians consider that belongs to their own ethnic group." Is that not true? I am trying to find compromis here so be at least a little bit cooperative! (Zdravko mk 12:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC))

He was a member of the extremely selective of its membership organization BMARC. --Telex 12:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Have you even read the discussion page before reverting?! How can you revert without looking at discussion page?! Are you so irresponsible? (Zdravko mk 12:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC))

Stan Lazaridis

How do you in the name of god, know wether he feels greek or not?:P before i started contributing to that article, you didnt even know who stan lazaridis was:)

1- He played at a Macedonian Club (wich widely uses macedonian symbols), do you think a real greek would ever play for such a club??? NO he would not, thats logical.

2- His family comes from Voden, a Macedonian city wich untill today is a significant macedonian community city.

3- As you can see in the E-mail the President of Stirling Lions FC sent to me, you will know that he Speaks Macedonian, that he played for macedonian clubs, and that he is called "a true Macedonian Trait".

4- About his Greek Surname, after 1913 all Macedonians and other peoples who were annexed into Greece, were forced to change their surnames into Greek sounding ones, Lazar became Lazaridis, Spiro or Spirov became Spiros etc etc. However many of those Macedonians whom their surname had been changed have kept their new forced name even when they emigrated outside of Agean Macedonia. For example, Steve Staios the famous hockey player, George Servinis, Another hockey player, Petros Dimtsis a leader of the Rainbow (political party) in Florina and many many others.

Please im asking you and your fellow friends to drop your actions against Stan Lazaridis he is Macedonian and will be Macedonian. It's clear enough, if you have something against Macedonians or me, than show it in another way, but do not keep editing the stan lazaridis page over and over again while you know im right. If it wasnt for GR MANOS i would not even mention Greek Australian on the Stan lazaridis page, but we made an agreement, to mention him as Greek Australian with Macedonian(ethnic group) heritage, to calm both sides down. So please give me a break here and stop with the nonsense. Greetings. --Makedonia 17:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Makedonia. Lazaridis is originally from Edessa (the original of the city used in ancient Macedonian times - the 1991 census recorded Turkish, Pomak, Roma, even Armenian minorities in Greece, there is no "Macedonian" minority), and the fact that he has a Greek name is proof that he is Greek. Contrary to the claims in your schoolbooks, the people with Slavic names in Greece were not forced to change them and declare themselves Greeks - they voluntarily chose to do you, so as to be exempt from the population exchanges, or because they really felt Greek. See also [20]. --Telex 17:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

From Voden yes, you greeks call it Edessa. its the same city. and of course the australian media is mentioning him as a Greek, they think Aegean Macedonia has Always been Greek, and second they are mentioning a Surinam football player from Holland a Dutchman too, but he isnt, he is from suriname.--Makedonia 17:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the ancient Macedonians also called in Edessa - it's you Slavs who have this urge of renaming placenames. Tut... tut... --Telex 17:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Some administrators

Some administrators seem to have the FYROM issue high on their agenda, high enough that they are ready to use admin powers on articles they edit, if necessary. Evidence is mounting...   /FunkyFly.talk_   21:04, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Malheureusement, cela semble être vrai :-( --Telex 21:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

And in English this would mean...?   /FunkyFly.talk_   21:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Sadly, that seems to be true :-( --Telex 21:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Now this is what I call conspiration theory....--Aldux 21:12, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Non sono d'accordo, the evidence is compelling. --Telex 21:14, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Has anyone ever tried learning Turkish? It's a really hard language! --Telex 21:15, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you guys talking about User:Bogdangiusca? - FrancisTyers 21:19, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

No, as far as I know, Bogdan would never abuse admin buttons. --Telex 21:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

He used rollback a couple of times on articles involving Macedonia. - FrancisTyers 21:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

To revert what? If it's an edit I'd agree with, then I'll not view it as an abuse ;-) --Telex 21:25, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I think they mean User:Jonathunder; unless I've grossly misunderstood, relations between him and Greek editors are a bit.... tense.--Aldux 21:27, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Not just with them. The whole story is here.   /FunkyFly.talk_   21:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Come on guys, it could be worse... User:Bitola, got blocked twice in abuse of admin buttons, by a user he was revert warring with (of course, FFF got desysopped in the end - Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Freestylefrappe). --Telex 21:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Gee whiz Telex, are you conspiring something? :)   /FunkyFly.talk_   21:49, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

FF, you should know me better! --Telex 21:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

The ArbCom are biased though. They refer to Kumanovo as "a city in Macedonia", rather than as "a city in FYROM". I guess I'll just have to live with it... --Telex 21:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

As long as it is informal, what can you do... Still better than referring to Blagoevgrad as a city in Pirin Macedonia.   /FunkyFly.talk_   22:00, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I have long been of the opinion, that the naming is of little significance. The fact that 1.5 million people from the poorer end of Europe, without an army, and 45% worth of ethnic minorities, decided to use strictly geographical names for propagandistic purposes should not get people annoyed. There are other reasons to get riled up: I can understand the fury of the Bulgarians when the „Macedonian” Folk Songs, written by the ethnically „Macedonian” Brakya Miladonovci are discussed - it would be like saying that Shakespeare was American! United Macedonia is not an option, I'm afraid, and it seems these guys (Makedonia, Macedonia, Vlatkoto etc) seem to be the only ones who have failed to comprehend that. There are more chances of Greece annexing Northern Epirus, than FYROM annexing Aegean Macedonia or Pirin Macedonia. The people in these regions have stated their ethnic identity clearly enough. The only case Greece has for annexing Northern Epirus, is not the dwindling Greek minority (which makes it a Megali idea target), but the fact that if they were annexed, they would automatically become EU citizens (like when East and West Germany united). If FYROM was an EU member, and Greece and Bulgaria weren't, then they would have a stronger case of annexing our beloved predominantly inhabited by Greeks/Bulgarians provinces. --Telex 22:12, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

You almost make it sound like some historical justice is being served. :) Annexation is very bad, as is anything against the will of the people. If this region wants to secede and that's OK with the rest of the country, and Greece accepts it - so be it.   /FunkyFly.talk_   22:15, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

The question is, why do they want Aegean Macedonia, if it would make the ethnic Macedonians an ethnic minority in their own country? Makedonia's pious hopes of annexing Aegean Macedonia and then deporting the Greeks (like he claims "we did to them") have no basis in fact. If mother Greece wanted to help the Greek majority in United Macedonia, they'd probably expel the Macedonian minority, and then the Macedonians would be like the Jews - a people without a homeland (until 1948 at least). --Telex 22:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Heh, what Greeks? It's Aegean Macedonia, there are no Greeks to deport. Only Macedonians live there, they are oppressed and want to be liberated. Just like the Pirin Macedonians :) To think some people believe this...   /FunkyFly.talk_   22:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of minorities/majorities, have you seen mk:Македонци во Бугарија#Пописи во Пиринска Македонија? I wonder what the motives were behind that section ;-) Of course, it takes a lot of courage to challenge the validity of censi in an open democratic country, and imply that censi taken during the years of a communist dictatorship are more credible. I guess it's due to the fact that Albania, Greece and Bulgaria have oppresive regimes, which invent all evidence against the existence of these Macedonian „majorities”. This sounds too familiar for my liking - it's circular logic and a loaded question. If you take a critical point of view, you'll see that there is no way the figures they claim are accurate. You only arrive at their conclusions, if you assume they are correct before embarking on the Journey of Discovery. --Telex 22:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Remember Realek's words - "A nation cannot be invented overnight." Well that's exactly what happened in 1946 and seem to have been undone after 1956. Governments can be very powerful sometimes.   /FunkyFly.talk_   22:42, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Nations are never invented overnight. - FrancisTyers · 22:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I feel sorry for the Bulgarians, you know. They were the most oppressed people in the European part of the Ottoman Empire. Due to Benjamin Disraeli's chauvinist outlook, San Stefano Bulgaria lost a lot of exclusively Bulgarian inhabited territory. The Bulgarians of Vardar Macedonia underwent a transformation to ethnic Macedonians with Croatian aid. It is said that time heals all wounds, and presumably, this also applies to washed brains. Tito's invention is disintegrating as we speak, so I'm assuming that in a few decades, the Republic of Macedonia will have tree primary nationalities: Albanians, Bulgarians and Turks. I'm saying all this on the understanding that I will not be visiting Skopje in the near future - I would prefer to maintain my bodily integrity ;-) --Telex 22:54, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

It's nice to see I am starting to inspire people (with my ignorance) [21] [22]... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 22:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

No, I mean seriously. Why do only large portions of the Macedonian "nation" defect (in large numbers) and declare themselves Bulgarians [23]? No Serbs do that. --Telex 23:00, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

See Montenegro (?)... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 23:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Different case - despite the fact that the Montenegrins are the closest thing you can get to a pure blooded Serb, they don't seem to have gone to the lengths our Republican friends have to rewrite history. --Telex 23:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Point taken (by me at least). Now you have to convince them... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 23:12, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Damn and I was trying to point out that "nations" are myths. Albeit convienient myths for some. Regard to "Macedonian defectors", might have something to do with the incipient ascension of Bulgaria to the mother ship. - FrancisTyers · 12:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

As the Minister of Justice points out the whole system is "... in need of a thorough review because it was now obvious that people were mostly applying for a Bulgarian passport so as to travel abroad" [24] :) Of course I know you're trolling ;) But its an interesting enough article anyway. - FrancisTyers · 12:33, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

It's arguable if that is the case, considering restrictions of labor movement to be imposed when Bulgaria joins. Most likely it is because that one is most likely to find a job in a 9% unemployment economy speaking a local dialect, rather than find a job in his domestic 40% unemployment economy or other linguistically challenging environments (Serbia excluded).   /FunkyFly.talk_   15:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

FF, didn't you know that Bulgarian and Macedonian are mutually incomprehensible? You should really do your homework! --Telex 15:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Guys, you know what's funny about this citizenship thing, the motives might not be national feelings at all, rather purely practical motives, such as finding work and search for better life. However, the process an applicant has to go through requires that they dig out Bulgarian documents of parents or grandparents - mostly birth certificates issued during the "Bulgarian occupation" of 1941-1944, which surprisingly many people have kept under their rugs for such a long time, like they meant something for them. Those documents are now dusted out, and law and behold - our applicant sees a Bulgarian birth certificate of his grandfather. That must be a pretty disturbing thought, considering the years of badly sourced history taught in the Republic, and given the public attitude.   /FunkyFly.talk_   15:48, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Very true FF :) — although from the stuff I've read, the Bulgarians don't even require a birth certificate or any "real" supporting documentation at all ;) btw. I removed the nonsense from that guys page. You should have pointed him out sooner. Its like whack-a-mole :) - FrancisTyers · 16:00, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

True, not a requirement, but still is the easiest way to get a citizenship. Otherwise you have to go through a much longer and painful process, so you are strongly encouraged to get it if possible. About that guy, I forgot about him, he doesnt seem to be active anymore. And one more thing, you can still be drafted in the army! The same army that "occupied" your homeland once. Must be pretty tough to side with the enemy...   /FunkyFly.talk_   16:03, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Even the girls? - FrancisTyers · 16:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

What about User:Macedonian and User:I sterbinski? Too long to read, but seems quite inflamatory.--Aldux 16:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't seem to be too bad. I will take action if there are complaints.

Fran, no not the girls, emigration is approximately half and half, I think even males have slight prevalence   /FunkyFly.talk_   16:28, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I sterbinski was an amazing character, before he got banned for spamming approximately 103 times with one of his famous Neutral wikipedia monologues. Interestingly in those monologs he claims that his grandfather born in 1911 has known Goce Delchev in person   /FunkyFly.talk_   16:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Moldova

Answer on Talk:Moldova132.70.50.117 06:50, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Renaming

For some reason s'po ma var, kohet e fundit :). Bej shaka! Check here and let me know what you think. Your opinion is appreciated. ilir_pz 00:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Revert

Hah! I reverted you! Shameless Greek hyper-nationalist that you are. Let's have a real big edit war now, shall we? I'm going to out myself as the crypto-Albanian I've always been. ;-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:06, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Kiro Gligorov

Yes, He said so. And what was he learned to believe throught the life, his opinion, pragmatism, if you want you can let the phrase on your page, but it shows only how much unserious you are. There are more greeks convinced that Macedonia is Macedonian than Macedonians thinking that they are slavs. In order to use someones authority to point something that is unproven is silly, he even was no historician. And I do make mestakes whan I write in english, At least I do not use google or some translators like you and Funky.--Vlatko 15:08, 06 June 2006 (UTC)

Hahaha, that certainly explains my English skills. :)   /FunkyFly.talk_   15:28, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi guys, I'm (pretending to be) new here. Please guide me around...  ₪Hellenic Republic₪  ^(T) 13:36, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm responding late... Yes it is his sentence, but I want to point that he is not competent in that field, he just expresed what he was tought all of his life. Tell me, how can he say "we are slavs that camed in the VI centry", was he alived then to prove that.--Vlatko 23:52, 06 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, the question is actually reverse my dear friend, because it is you that is trying to prove the irrational: Were you alive then to know otherwise? It is common knowledge that Slavs came in the 5th and 6th century. As an ethnic group, you have many slavic features, including language and physical characteristics. Maybe you had the chance to mix with a few Macedonian Greeks back then, maybe not. In any case you cannot claim being a closer descendant to the ancients than the Greek Macedonians. It's just paranoid. We are honoured by your wish, though, so thank you...  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 00:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Ssshhhh

They'll find out about my SECRET ANTI-SERB AGENDA! - FrancisTyers · 18:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

If theres one thing that I'm always doing, its "rejecting historical facts in favour of what is written at www.maknews.com". I'm almost never accepting historical facts, instead relying on a partisan "news" organisation! Nexm0d is not right, if anything it should be Serbo-Croatian or Central South Slavic. But to be honest, whats the point, each of them has a standard, who am I to judge. Hell, I have Esperanto on there, why not Bulgarian and Slovenian? :) - FrancisTyers ·

Why people hate me

Yeah, based on this, I believe it's my best friend Lutherian. :D Always nice to know how popular I am! —Khoikhoi 00:44, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

CG Wikipedia

Hey Telex, there is currently a vote for a version of Wikipedia in Montenegrin. If you want to vote, go to meta:Requests for new languages. There you can vote. Ask your friends on Wikipedia (if you have any) who haven't voted to vote. Thanks. Crna Gora ^{(Talk/Contribs/Edit Count)} 06:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

New Arvanites confusion

Your thoughts? Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Question

I want to ask you: do you like that your work to be reverted? You come and revert a lot of other people's work from different countries, even if you don't have a clue about that subject. How do you feel when your work is reverted? --201.11.44.5 19:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

It all depends on what is being reverted? You are vandalising that history of the language article. --Telex 19:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

No. This is not true. We're making more NPOV. Now is very POV against Romanians. --201.11.44.5 19:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

"So called" is POV. Can't you use a footnote, saying something like 'the usage of the term "Moldovan language" is not meant to imply an endorsement of the Moldovenst perspective'? --Telex 19:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

If you don't agree just edit, but stop with reverts. Do you want a war? Do you want to be hounted for every edit you make? The soviets are doing this with Romanians, so we're used to. Tell us! --201.11.44.5 19:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I suggest you everytime you want to make a revert just edit and make it less POV as you think. But stop with reverts. --201.11.44.5 19:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Bonaparte, bite me. You cannot influence anything, you are banned. Anyone can revert any edit you make without regard to the 3RR, so don't think you can bargain. NPOV does not mean Romanian POV - adding "so called" is POV and you know it. --Telex 19:14, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

If you want war you'll have it. 201.11.44.5 19:16, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

stan lazaridis

ok telex ill accept your last version, now please let it stay this way.Greetings!--Makedonia 19:20, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

That was a request for source, not a proposal. As you failed you source the claim, it has been removed. --Telex 21:38, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanx

Thank you very much, Telex, for helping out with the reverts. I need all the help I can get and I appreciate your being there. ImpuMozhi 19:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanx very muh again. This troll is tireless and, OMG, he defines ppersistance. ImpuMozhi 13:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!

...for protecting my user page from obvious vandalism. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

POLL

No, no, no, not what you think! This time is for something that all of us need:

Improvement of the <ref> function.

Please weigh in at Wikipedia talk:Footnotes#Poll!  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 21:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

ερώτηση

Πώς σου φαίνεται (ή αν το έχεις διαβάσει ήδη πώς σου φάνηκε) το βιβλίο του Μπίρη; talk to +MATIA 12:33, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Καλό ήταν. Νομίζω ότι γεγονός ότι έγινε μπεστσέλλερ και χρειάστηκε να εκδοθεί τέσσερις φορές σημαίνει ότι δεν έγραψε ανοησίες και ότι ο κόσμος δέχεται αυτά που έγραψε. --Telex 12:42, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Για τους Αρβανίτες μου έκανε και εντύπωση αυτό το γράμμα (το προτελευταίο). Συνήθως ακούς μόνο τις οργανώσεις ανθρωπίνων δικαιωμάτων να παραπονιούνται ότι στην Ελλάδα δίνεται υπερβολική έμφαση στην αρχαία Ελλάδα και ότι οι άνθρωποι με διαφορετικές καταβολές δε χωρούν σε αυτή την "ιδεολογία". --Telex 12:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Image

Telex, I have created the image and uploaded it, so and specified all. what are you playing? What has man to do for you make some rational thing. Pathetic from yopur side. Please explain me where is the problem with the image, or you are the problem.--Vlatko 15:27, 08 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you saying you created Image:Skopje Real1.png? Even so, information is needed on the copyright status of the images you used to make it. --Telex 13:34, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, seriosly you have problems. I'll discuss for the image with Francis, not with you. Stay away please.--Vlatko 15:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Telex: WP:AN/I. - FrancisTyers · 13:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Sher Khan

whast your problem with inclusion of Sher Shah Suri in the Indian monarchs Category ?--Irishpunktom\^talk 13:50, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Because he's already in Category:Sur Dynasty, a subcategory of Category:Indian monarchs. Not to mention Tatra's edit summary. --Telex 13:52, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Telex, that what you and the Tatar do is ultranationalistic, nationaly conformistic and antimacedonistic, you've started deleting all the images that represent macedonia. Why don't you see it and do it this way, "To make better articles about Greece and Bulgaria", start cleaning up there by removing the images that violate the copyright policy and info without sources, I'm sure you'll find a mess of a "good job" about "you", and probably , maybe, after long long time of sceptic (please be sceptic) research you will realise the Fable.---Vlatko 23:59, 08 June 2006 (UTC)

Poor Vlatko, he does not realize that he is just as tatar as the Bulgarians and all his fellow Republicans. Anti-macedonistic, how true.   /FunkyFly.talk_   23:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, poor me, "poor you".---Vlatko 01:17, 09 June 2006 (UTC)

Stan Lazaridis

Hi Telex, I just posted some interesting info regarding Stan Lazaridis here. [25] Regards. ;) ~Mallaccaos, 8 June 2006

Goce Delchev quotes

[26] Fictional quotes seem very instrumental when a point needs to be proved.   /FunkyFly.talk_   15:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Quotes by Goce Delechev: Macedonia has its interests...... From Dimitar Talev's novel Ilinden

Do you think that this document is copyrighted? [27]. It has pictures on pages 16 and 66 of Gligorov and Koneski.   /FunkyFly.talk_   23:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes - publications by the Macedonian government usually are copyrighted. If we could find one in an American government publication (USA government publications are always public domain), we could use that. --Telex 23:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Darn! Will keep looking.   /FunkyFly.talk_   23:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

We only need one more. We have two existing ones, we have Simon Trpceski (with a PD image) to replace Parlichev, all we need is someone to replace Miladonov. --Telex 23:38, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

How about Marek Jankulovski? --Telex 23:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Might be temporary, until a picture of Koneski or Gligorov is found, he's hardly of their stature.   /FunkyFly.talk_   23:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll see to it tomorrow --logged out --Telex 23:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Azeri's name in Arabic script

Where did you get that from? :) P.S., I like the quote. —Khoikhoi 22:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I found it here. --Telex 22:57, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Ah, a Pan-Turk website! (Güney Azərbaycan = "South Azerbaijan") —Khoikhoi 23:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

No, I was just saying what it was. —Khoikhoi 23:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, hopefully I'll be able to visit that region some day. BTW, what do you think about the placement of the images I added to the history section? —Khoikhoi 23:11, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Sure, but it's Tombseye who writes the articles, you might want to ask him, although I think he might want to work on History of Armenia next. —Khoikhoi 23:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Arvanitic and "minority status"

Hi Telex, that statement over at Arvanites about Rainbow and protected-language status seems still to be contentious, between Albanau and Politis at least. In that context, it struck me that I inadvertently wrote something the other day, about there being no political wish for minority-language status on the part of Arvanites, which contrasts starkly with another statement a bit further up, about the "Arvanitikos syllogos" campaigning for just such a status. I don't remember who introduced that statement, was it you? It's currently marked as unsourced. Is there anything we can do to resolve that question this way or the other? Thanks, Lukas ^(T.|@) 17:22, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the whole thing should be removed. Matia added that. --Telex 17:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Right. Apparently on the basis of this, though: [28]. Lukas ^(T.|@) 17:43, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

little Macedonist

If you're going to come running to me with tales of outrage, at least make them accurate :P - FrancisTyers · 00:51, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Telex, as much as I am tempted to expose Fran's scientific bias to overemphasize, I doubt that he's a worthy member of that list.   /FunkyFly.talk_   18:10, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Turkish names

Ok, they're on my watchlist now. BTW, I noticed in your map it says "Turkic" instead of "Turkish". What other language would it be besides Turkish? Crimean Tatar? Also, this map somewhat contradicts yours. —Khoikhoi 01:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

In addition, what about the Cham Albanians? —Khoikhoi 01:06, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for stalking:). Telex, i had told u that your map does not include Phodope Prefecture in turkish speaking areas. well, it should, cause this is where their majority lives. also, in Evros Prefecture the number of the turkish speakers is very low (u did well not to include it, but i think not good to ask for the turkish name to remain there - in case we are going to add names only according to were minority exists (something that won't be a supporter of). --Hectorian 01:12, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Haha!

Thanks :)) - FrancisTyers · 18:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Μπίρης

Νομίζω θα πρέπει να αναφέρουμε ότι ο Μπίρης αφιερώνει το μεγαλύτερο μέρος στην ιστορία τους με πολύ καλές βιβλιογραφικές αναφορές. Εσύ τι λες; Άλλες ιδέες για το τι να προσθέσουμε για τον Μπίρη; talk to +MATIA 07:23, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Δεν ξέρω. --Telex 13:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Κάπου έχω όλο το κείμενο του μανιφέστο (και θέλω να το δακτυλογραφήσω), αλλά τώρα δεν έχω κανένα βιβλίο πρόχειρο. Αν μπορείς πρόσθεσε οτιδήποτε σχετικό σε παρακαλώ. Ευχαριστώ :) talk to +MATIA 08:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Το έχω δακτυλογραφήσει εγώ. Αν θέλεις, μπορώ να σου το στείλω με e-mail. --Telex 13:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Και τέλος σε παρακαλώ γραψε τι κατάλαβες εσύ για τους Δωριείς από τον Μπίρη. Είναι ένας παραλληλισμος (έτσι κατάλαβα εγώ) ή είναι θεωρία καταγωγής όπως οι Πελασγοί του Κόλλια; talk to +MATIA 11:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Νομίζω ότι είναι παραλληλισμός, αλλά όπως ξέρεις, αποδίδει στους Αρβανίτες Ιλλυρική καταγωγή (ή έτσι καταλαβαίνω), και στη σελίδα 25 λέει ότι «υπάρχει μια θεωρία που ταυτίζει τους Δωριείς με τους Ιλλύριους και τοποθετεί την κοιτίδα τους πολύ βορειότερα. Αλλά, αν το δεύτερο αληθεύει ως προϋπόθεση, μάλλον συνέβη βαθμιαία κάθοδος των δύο λαών, με την οποίαν ο βορειότερος, οι Ιλλύριοι, κάλυπτε ολοένα τις χώρες του νοτιότερου, των Δωριέων, και εν μέρει συγχωνεύτηκε μαζί του. Έτσι, επόμενο ήταν να προκύψουν ενδείξεις των δύο λαών επάλληλες, που δημιούργησαν την εντύπωση της ταύτισή τους». Ουσιαστικά, λέει ότι ίσως οι πρόγονοι των Αρβανιτών και οι Δωριείς ζούσαν την ίδια περιοχή, με το αποτέλεσμα να μοιάσουν και να δίνεται η εντύπωση ότι οι Αρβανίτες έχουν Δωρική καταγωγή (ή το αντίστροφο). --Telex 13:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ah, this is beginning to make sense. Thanks for clarifying. I was discussing a few things with Matia off-wiki, and the question came up there. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:47, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you want it in English, or do you get the full picture? --Telex 13:50, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Οχι, και στα ελληνικά μια χαρά μου κάνει. Ευχαριστώ. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:58, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Μου έρχεται στο νου η υποψία ότι κάτι λείπει από τον Πύργο σου της Βαβέλ. --Telex 14:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Δε σας είπα πως εκτός από Σιλιγγοχερουσκικές έχω και (αρβανιτο?)-(βλαχο?)-ρουμελιώτικες συνδέσεις; Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ασχετα τώρα, εκείνον το Ρατζπούτ με τα ρεβέρτ του τον κάψαμε τελικά, έφαγε απεριόριστο. :-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:03, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ωραία, θα ησυχάσουμε (για τις επόμενες τρεις μέρες τουλάχιστον). --Telex 14:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, Telex

One other view is described in the Serbian dictionary for international terms called "Vujaklija", I'll search for other sources, but to be logical, you know that I'm right, and that the term "Macedonism" refers also and to Greek Macedonian culture, according to me you should ad that in the article, not to remove it.--Vlatko 15:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

This is the first time I've heard of something like that. cite a source, or begone! --Telex 13:42, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanx for beeing Flexible, but just for you I'll find.--Vlatko 15:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Joshua Project

I actually do use it sometimes, just not when there is more reliable data such as censuses, the UN, etc. It's pretty reliable, but sometimes vague as well. Overall it can be a great help though yes. Thanks. Tombseye 21:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Or this comment. He did get punished, he recently got blocked for 1 month by Ronline because it was revealed that the IP that was vandalizing Jmabel's user page and leaving nasty comments was him. Ciao. —Khoikhoi 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Check your email. :) —Khoikhoi 22:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Γιάντα...

...ωρέ κοπέλι δε θες να πέμψεις τούτο το κατεβατό παέ;  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 23:03, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ουκ εκατάλαβον. --Telex 23:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ποντικοπέρασέ το για.  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 23:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Не, бидејќи не сум сигурен ако оваа страница е готова за да ја гледа светот. --Telex 23:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, θα προσπαθήσω χωρίς να ξέρω: "'Οχι, δες δεν είμαι σίγουρος για την παράξενη και...??" Να ψάξω για μεταφραστή ή θα μου πείς τι λές?  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 23:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ρε συ, δεν ντρέπεσαι; Δεν ξέρεις τη πραγματική γλώσσα της Μακεδονίας (τα Μακεδονικά), η οποία μιλιέται από πάνω από διακόσιες χιλιάδες άτομα στην Αιγαιακή Μακεδονία (οι οποίοι κρύβονται); Είπα ότι δε θα το μετακινήσω επειδή δεν είμαι βέβαιος αν είναι έτοιμο ακόμα. --Telex 23:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Σκούζι, απλά εκείνο το "στράνιτσα" μού'κανε για "στρειντζ". Τα άτομα ήταν περίπου 380,000 με 1,000,000, οι υπόλοιποι 1,200,000 είναι Πόντιοι και υπάρχουν και καμιά 300αριά χιλιάδες Έλληνες...  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 23:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ακριβώς! Εγώ στέλνω τα παιδιά μου να μάθουν Μακεδονικά, και όχι Αγγλικά. Τα Μακεδονικά είναι μια αρχαία γλώσσα ενός αρχαίου λαού, με εθνική ιστορία πάνω από πενήντα τρεις χιλιάδες χρόνων. Εσύ; --Telex 00:03, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Παραδόξως και οι πραγματικοί και οι Γιαλαντζί Μακεδόνες πρέπει πράγματι να μίλαγαν την ίδια γλώσσα πρίν από 53,000 χρόνια! Πάλι καλά, τώρα ξέρω ποιά γλώσσα να μάθω στην κόρη μου...  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 00:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Δεν έχεις αίσθηση του χιούμορ! Έγραψα ότι έχουν εθνική ιστορία πενήντα χρόνων, μετά το έσβησα, και το «διόρθωσα» γράφοντας τριών χιλιάδων χρόνων. --Telex 00:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

-- logged out --Telex 00:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Νόμιζα ότι ήταν 2006-1945=61 χρόνια. Ντροπή σου εσένα που σβήνεις έτσι εύκολα το 18.03% της ιστορίας ενός ολόκληρου λαού για να προωθήσεις τις εθνικιστικές σου πεποιθήσεις! 'Νύχτα και σε σένα!  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 00:36, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Numbers

How prevalent is that number of 800000 people in the Republic of Macedonia though? We all know the diaspora tends to overexaggerate things a bit, Vlatko claims 1.2 million for example, but I was thinking of a more mainstream number, which most people believe in.   /FunkyFly.talk_   15:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

The more ridiculous the numbers are, the less readers are likely to believe that Macedonist junk. --Telex 15:56, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Or more likely to dismiss it as an outright attack...   /FunkyFly.talk_   15:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It is sourced - we're just stating the facts. I admit it is slightly higher than mkwiki's claim of 750,000, but what we are describing in that article are Macedonian nationalists, not their government (which claimed 230,000). --Telex 16:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm putting the numbers from United Macedonia then.   /FunkyFly.talk_   16:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

OK (they are all I could find - if you've got higher ones, let's include those as well). --Telex 16:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Looks like the article has angered Miskin, and I can sort of guess the reason. We might have to do a disambiguation: Macedonism (political idea) and Macedonism (culture), if that will help.   /FunkyFly.talk_   19:30, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Χμμμ I kaltsa

Έχεις καταλάβει οτι αυτός που έκανε αυτό έχει εκτός από την ανάποδη λογική, και το ανάποδο όνομα από σένα? Επίσης, ρίξε μια ματιά στο WP:ANI#List of unrecognised countries...  NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 09:55, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Boris na prosehis afton me to andistrofo onoma apo mena. Den ti boro tin taleporia. --Telex 10:12, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Ton exw fermarismeno alla den kanei tipota pros to paron... NikoSilver  ^{(T) @ (C)} 10:26, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Για γέλια ή για κλάμματα...:NikoSilver:

Ya na dis poso anistoritos ine o kosmos, des auto. --Telex 15:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Telex, you might want to have a look at the situation over at the Adjara page. Check out this comment. —Khoikhoi 17:44, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

There is a new article

The names of the great city Konstandinupoli has special page for ist names also covers etymology too. I hope you would embarace this page instead of filling the introduction with every other names, as each one has their only a chauvinist wright to have their name their; I guess you do agree with this, check this list copied from the first sentence.Thnks!--OttomanReference 18:51, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

• Turkish: İstanbul
• Ottoman Turkish: قسطنطنيه (Kostantiniyye)
• Latin name: Constantinopolis, Nova Roma
• Roman name: CONSTANTINVPOLIS
• Greek: Κωνσταντινούπολη
• Byzantine Greek: Κωνσταντινούπολη
• Koine Greek name: Κωνσταντινούπολις (Konstantinoupolis)
• Old Church Slavonic: Цѣсарьградъ
• Church Slavonic: Царьгра̀дъ
• Russian: Царьгра́д
• Bulgarian: Ца̀риград (Tsarigrad)
• Romanian: Ţarigrad
• Ukrainian: Царгород
• Serbian: Цариград (Carigrad), also rendered as Czargrad and Tzargrad
• Scandinavian Varangian: Miklagård
• Azeri Latin name: Konstantinopolis
• Arabic name: قسطنطينية (Kostantiniyya)
• Armenian: commonly referred to as "Polis/Bolis" (Պոլիս)
• Armenian: Ստամբուլը
• Bulgarian: Истанбул
• Kurdish: Stenbol
• Macedonian: Цариград (Carigrad)
• Macedonian: Истанбул (Istanbul), also is used and the form Стамбол (Stambol), a short version of the original name.

Well... quite a few of these are irrelevant, and I have no objection to adding them. Will you do it, or shall I? --Telex 18:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

That What about Konstandinupoli, the page Constantinople will have them too? --OttomanReference 18:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

BE just cool about this. The people who you are objecting are the ones who want to find a center position in this war of names... You seem to be a good person. Come and join us to end this non productive thing...--OttomanReference 18:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Fine. I admit that Istanbul is slightly more important in almost in all respects than Komotini, and there are significantly more relevant names for Istanbul and there is a seperate page for them. --Telex 19:01, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Solanki

Thanks for the help on reverting edits, made without basis or evidence.

Ther is a lot of this happening

Ravi Chaudhary 20:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

How can I thank you enough for the ~100 reverts you effected today? I really appreciate it. One quick question: I notice that you managed to make over a dozen reverts a minute. Can you tell me how to do this? It would be really useful to me, given my present troubles. Best regards, ImpuMozhi 23:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic Identity in Greece

I am making article of it. Luka Jačov 08:44, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Telex, I can understand you want time to work on this article quietly before you put it in the main namespace - but I too think it is actually mature enough to release it and let others work on it too. Why do you object so much? - By the way, I wouldn't call other people moving it to an article vandalism - after all, don't forget you already released it under GFDL, so if Luka wants to make it an article, there's nothing to stop him... Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:21, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure that it's compient with the content policies of Wikipedia. There's a lot of unreferenced material. I'm also not certain of the validity of that 1991 census. As far as I know, the Greek government does not explicitly recognize a Turkish minority, let alone count them in the censi. I copied that table from a Greek book, and I'd like to crosscheck a few things first. Moreover, I was going to merge this into Demographics of Greece, rather than create a second POV fork (second to Minority groups in Greece). --Telex 10:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Ah, okay, I see. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Telex is right. Using the census scholars have attempted to extrapolate the numbers of the muslim minorities, but the results are different, even if the variations among the scholars are not very big.--Aldux 11:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not actually in Oslo yet, I leave tommorow. The Minority groups in Greece rewrite definately looks good. Most of the stuff I put in would probably be more at home in Human rights in Greece to be honest. - FrancisTyers · 20:37, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

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A Simple Favor

Hi Telex. I was wondering if you could help me. For the past few days, I have been trying to acquire information about the stradioti, but I ultimately failed. If it is alright with you, could you please look into Biris' work and tell me what he states about Jacomo Barbarigo or Marco Barbarigo in regards to the Arvanites or the stradioti? I would really appreciate it. A full citation of Biris' statements would be most helpful. Respond whenever you can. Thank you and take care. Deucalionite 21:44, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Telex. What is happening, why we have pov titles on Republic of Macedonia, Macedonians (ethnic group) and replacement of names in Macedonia (region)? MatriX 12:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I was present in Skopje then (for some other business of course:) and I saw the demonstrations. I think they were the biggest demonstrations held in Skopje as I know. Unfortunately, I have no images available, I found only this link so far:[29] (see FYROM - a temporary reference section). I also hope our countries will find a way to resolve this dispute so we can discuss more interesting things;) MatriX 15:44, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the things are pretty much calmed down (if we compare with the period before 10 years for example), lets hope that this trend will continue.MatriX 16:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi

It's very funny, especially the thing that Bulgarians think that even Bosnia&Hercegovina (according to Evlia Celebia) is even more-western Bulgaria ;-) Bomac 15:48, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Kalo fainetai. eida oti ekanes kapoies diorthoseis. prosthesa oti sunithws theorountai Boulgaroi. btw, ithela na sou pw gia to Joshua Project kai ton arithmo Ellinwn pou dinei gia ta skopia, alla profanws me prolaves:) --Hectorian 16:15, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Pomaks

I thought that was one of those things you simply know but can't prove, because there simply be a lack of sources, but it turns out sources about it can be found after all!

Anyway, the Pomaks even in Bulgaria sometimes prefer to be called not Bulgarians, but Turks, simply Muslims, or Pomaks, but as a separate ethnic group from Turks and Bulgarians. This disunity, in addition to their specific character, makes them a generally easy target for assimilation, so nothing suprising. Todor→Bozhinov 18:20, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Christian Hajji

Hi! Please see the second paragraph of the hajji article that I wrote. Was/Is the title used by Greeks to mean a Christian's pilgrimage to Jerusalem? What about Orthodox Albanians?

If it is used, how should it be rendered in the Greek alphabet? I'm almost certain it's haxhi in Albanian, but can't pick out the Christian usage (if any) from the Muslim one. Todor→Bozhinov 17:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, never heard of it. Hajji are usually called χατζήδες (hadzídhes) in Greek (I'm not aware of any Christian usage). As for Albanian, I haven't got a clue. Sorry :-( --Tēlex 17:55, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Babiniotis is your friend (Λεξικό της Νέας Ελληνικής Γλώσσας), vide "χατζής": "in popular speech, a pilgrim to the Holy Sites, namely to Jerusalem in case of Christians, or to Mekka and Medina in the case of Muslims". Also note the very widespread use of Greek family names in "Χατζη-", which seems to indicate that the practice must have been fairly important. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Also see the name of Gheorghe Hagi (Aromanian orgin). greier 18:11, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Fut.Perf., exactly that type of surnames was what interested me, as it's present in Balkan Slavic countries, but I had no knowledge about its use in other Christian countries formerly under Ottoman rule. Many thanks!

As for Hagi, his name crossed my mind (and I'm aware of his origin), but it may not be certain Aromanians use(d) it in the same way. Todor→Bozhinov 18:17, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Glad to be of help. I've added it to the article. Shall we have a little edit war over whether to put the Slavic or the Greek form first? ;-) ducking away... Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:25, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Sure, let's wage war! :) (adding the page to Category:Wars in the Balkans that he was just browsing) Todor→Bozhinov 18:41, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Surprise!

To our many future quarrels ;-)--Aldux 18:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		To a truly tireless editor Aldux 18:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Coo... thanks :-) --Tēlex 18:04, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

# of Albanians...

I am sorry, but you are acting unreasonable. I am merely stating a fact not an opinion --Cigor 18:55, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

You are claiming without proof that there is no or little spillage of Albanian votes to other parties. --Tēlex 18:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Anti-Hungarian

Thanks, maybe I could ask some of the Hungarian editors to help expand it (there are more of them than you think!). And text time Bonaparte comes around I can point him there. —Khoikhoi 20:17, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. —Khoikhoi 22:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Minorities in greece

Maybe you should made a different section about thrace minority where you will explain what they are considered and by who, and delete both the turkish and muslim (not the whole) sections. Mitsos 08:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I've changed the section headings to clarify that the present "Muslim" section is actually intended as a subsection of "Slavic-speaking", and thus covers only the Pomaks. That wasn't too clear from the heading layout. I think it makes sense to keep the whole article structured by languages primarily. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Census and Bulgarians

The census does not mean that the Greek belong to a greek minority because it covers all the people who are present at the time of the census even if they living there for a few weeks as guests. Until the population exchanges with Greece there were Greeks in Bulgaria (Petric, Melnik, 'Nevrokop', Plovdiv and Black Sea coast) who had to go to Greece, and Bulgarians in Greece ('Lerin', Serres, Kavala but especially many villages) who had to go to Bulgaria. The truth is that most Bulgarians lived in villages in Greece and most Greeks lived in towns in Bulgaria. Today Bulgaria and Greece do not have a problem about minorities with each other because they have priorities to build a strong region for everybody. All this emphasis on demographics idiotic talk is by irredentist of republic of madedonia and I think it must be cut down to a few lines. Makedonija 16:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Over 50,000 people from republic of macedonia have applied for Bulgarian passport. There are I think up to 2,000 students from same country in Bulgarian universities and many complain about Bulgaria but they accept to enjoy the benefits like Bulgarians. They follow the lessons with no problems in a language they do not understand, Bulgarian!!! Also VMRO-DMPN party has many members that want to be part of Bulgaria. All these figures have not come up in statistics because people are intimidated against saying they are Bulgarians. Makedonija 16:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment

Which means you Greeko-guys are not much different ;-) Bomac 16:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the Greek users are very neutral and the Greek Wikipedia is very NPOV (when compared to other >>> mkwiki). --Tēlex 16:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Aha... Let's see: PGDM about R. of Macedonia, Makedonia for Greek Macedonia, Archiep. of Ohrid for MOC, Slavomakedonika for Macedonian language... Geez, neutrality rocks in grwiki. Bomac 16:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Naming does not determine neutrality. Elwiki does not make blatantly false claims - for example, the number of "Slavomakedones" in Greece is presented more neutrally than in mkwiki. Furthermore, this terminology is more common in the Greek language. --Tēlex 16:47, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Then why reactions - Egejska Makedonija to be renamed in Grchka Makedonija? That terminology is more common in Macedonian language. The number of Macedonians in Greece varies even in the non-Macedonian statistics. Simply - the Greek POV rules about the issue in grwiki. Bomac 16:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

There is a difference when it comes to POV terminology. I am not complaining about Egejska Makedonija - I am complaining about irredentist terminology such as Etnička Makedonija. --Tēlex 16:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

,,Irredentist" is greek POV. Simply, ,,Etnichka Makedonija" is widely used in Macedonian language. Bomac 16:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

That is what we are trying to explain to you Bomac, you are so indoctrinated that you do not see it. The Bulgarians do not use 'ethnic Bulgaria' for lands around Bulgaria or the Greeks 'ethnic Greece' for lands around Greece, you the 'macedonians' are the ones using it and you think it is normal! The Serbs used 'ethnic Serbia' and they went to war killing everybody and then have a war of 'ethnic cleasing' for their 'ethnic Serbia'. That propaganda has infected people like you want and you use the same language and you probably dream of war. Makedonija 17:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Boreia Epiros is widely used in Greek to refer to southern Albania, but elwiki deleted the article on that topic [30]. It is irrendetist language. --Tēlex 17:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

But they use "Macedonians" no matter that there is a Macedonian nation. Bomac 17:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand what you're getting at. --Tēlex 18:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Not using Macedonians instead of "Macedonians" is the point. Bomac 18:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Where? And, even if it did, look at what the US State Department says: A number of citizens identified themselves as Turks, Pomaks, Vlachs, Roma, Arvanites (Orthodox Christians who speak a dialect of Albanian), or "Macedonians" or "Slavomacedonians." ([31]). --Tēlex 19:00, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh please! Nevermind. Bomac 19:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Anyway, you're wrong. Scare quotes ("") are not used in the Greek language. --Tēlex 19:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Telex. It appears FF already got to it, I'm busy with the AOL vandal right now. —Khoikhoi 19:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Hold up, I'm busy. —Khoikhoi 20:04, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd probably break 3RR if I reverted him, better be safe than sorry. —Khoikhoi 20:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I see (forgot). --Tēlex 20:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Слушај ВАМУ

Колку што сакаш другар шири пропаганда, нема да ти успее!! Ако мислиш дека ќе ме стопираш гадно си се заебал!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by LBakraceski (talk • contribs)

Listen. No matter how many friends you invite to spread propaganda, it wont be!! If you think you might stop me, you're screwed!!   /FunkyFly.talk_   00:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Causion against removing the POV tags

Please note that removing the POV-tags does not help to resolve disputes. The tag should indicate the disagrement until the dispute is resolved as described in WP:DR--AndriyK 12:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I think your concerns were answered long ago at Talk:Battle of the Lower Dnieper/Archive 2. --Tēlex 12:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Propaganda

In that case I will fell free to edit the Bulgarian website with my points of view. So lets see how is tougher, because apparently its the only way to talk with Bulgarians such as you are

• The European Union doesnt hold the legal power to recignise or not to recognise a country!! Read learn and then write!! Only the member states can do so!—Preceding unsigned comment added by LBakraceski (talk • contribs)

Tēlex, you Bulgarian nationalist, how dare you!   /FunkyFly.talk_   15:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

See User talk:LBakraceski#Deletions. --Tēlex 15:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I should try that kind of reasoning on my colleagues at my job.   /FunkyFly.talk_   15:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Kaltses (h mallon Kalson)...

...mia kai mallon milame gia thn Inanna. Koita se parakalw to Cyprus kai kane ta deonta... :NikoSilver: 15:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Re.

Much ;-) Bomac 16:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Aw... shucks! Now you made me revert myself! You'll have to revert me to readd it ;-) --Tēlex 16:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Wholly is a diplomatic word in this case... In reality, every single country from EU (except Greece, ofcourse) refers the country as ,,Macedonia". ;-) Bomac 17:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Prove it. Only Poland recognizes you as "(Republic of) Macedonia". --Tēlex 17:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Again - diplomacy. Everywhere where Greece doesn't listen, the country is reffered to it's constitutional name - Macedonia. Bomac 17:08, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

What about Kipar? --Tēlex 17:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

What about it? Bomac 17:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

How do people refer to you when Greece doesn't listen, but they do? --Tēlex 17:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, they are too busy with the Turkish northern part, so they don't listen ;-) Bomac 17:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the world is an evil place. You get these chauvinists who just can't leave people alone. The USSR divided seperated R. Moldova from the rest of Romania, Turkey seperated Cyprus from the rest of Greece, Yugoslavia seperated Kosovo from Albania, Yugoslavia also seperated R. Macedonia from Bulgaria, England seperated Northern Ireland from R. Ireland etc. These people split nations! --Tēlex 17:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Guess what is my opinion? ;-) I agree that world is a hell of a place. Bomac 17:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course you do. That's why as far as Greece is concerned, stolen Aegean Macedonia is for the keepings. --Tēlex 17:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, am I forbidden to defend myself from the attacks of long-gone pall Theathenae? Greek Macedonia is undoubtedly important for R. Macedonia in cultural way. Many prominent Macedonians are from that region, even one of the most prominent - Misirkov, born in Vergina (Kutlesh). Bomac 17:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

So let me get it straight, you defend yourself by accusing other people of stealing?   /FunkyFly.talk_  17:54, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

No. Bomac 18:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The you're either lying or being inconsistent.   /FunkyFly.talk_  18:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Constantinople (Istanbul) is important for Greeks in an even more significant cultural and historical way. At present though, the Megali Idea (which had as its aim Greece to annex Constantinople) is long gone. On the other hand, the doctrines of Macedonism and United Macedonia are rampaging in the minds of young Macedonians such as Vlatko, making them think that there is a realistic opportunity of an annexation of any sort. The worse victims of those doctrines are the Macedonians themselves, as they will only be disappointed in life when their ambitions never materialize (just as the Greeks' and everyone else's irredentist ambitions never materialized). --Tēlex 17:46, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Let me remind you Telex - I said cultural way, I didn't mentioned unification. Bomac 18:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Do all other Macedonian (people/Wikipedians) agree? --Tēlex 18:08, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Μία χάρη

Αν μπορείς να μου κάνεις μια χάρη, κοίταξε σε παρακαλώ λίγο αυτή την κάπως άσχημη δουλειά. Εχω αυτό το πρόβλημα με τον Δ. και του κάνω αναγκαστικά "stalking" για να καθαρίσω τα άρθρα του. Κοίτα λίγο και την ιστορία μου των τελευταίων μερών, σχεδόν όλα που έκανα έχουν σχεσή με αυτόν. Αν μπορείς, βάλε τη σελίδα μου και κάποια απ αυτά τα άρθρα στο watchlist σου, γιατί αυτός είναι πολύ εκνευρισμένος μαζί μου, και δεν ξέρω τι θα κάνει όταν δει τι του έκανα πάλι. Κάπως λυπάμαι κι ο ίδιος που το κάνω, αλλά πρέπει, έχει τα μαύρα χάλια της όλη αυτή η ιστορία. Πες μου την άποψή σου για το θέμα, πως να το διαχειρίζω τώρα καλύτερα; Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Δεν ξέρω τι να πω, δεν καταλαβαίνω πιο είναι το πρόβλημα, edit wars ή κάτι άλλο; Τα έχω βάλει όλα στο watchlist, και βλέπουμε. --Tēlex 18:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I just wanted somebody to watch this whole affair - it's a wretched business and I basically just don't want to be alone with it. Watch out in case D. does anything desperate and disruptive (he already made two brief attempts at sockpuppetry), or tell me if I'm taking it too far. I'll probably have to take it to RfC pretty soon, as things are going now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Two quotes

Two of my favorite quotes. :D

—Khoikhoi 00:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

"There are no Kurds in Turkey as well.That's official.If you deny this, it will be illegal." – Inanna 00:39, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

We all assume good faith. That's it. Close case. And I suggest you all of you to calm down or else I will start an RfC against all of you! I will accuse you of Anti-Romanianism if you don't get it! -- Bonaparte talk 19:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Outlook

To diko sou den exei kampanaki mallon e? :NikoSilver: 00:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

POV tag

Please pay attention to [32]:

Dispute tags are an important way for people to show that there are problems with the article. Do not remove them unless you are sure that the dispute is settled. As a general rule, do not remove other people's dispute tags twice during a 24 hour period.

If ou are in varience with the WP policy, request for arbitration involving you may filled and you may be blocked.--Mbuk 06:05, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Telex, feel free to ignore this threat that borders trolling. I had seen enough of the same WP:DFTT#Pestering at my talk and already broke the DFTT rule. Don't repeat my mistake. --Irpen 06:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Tirana is not that grim for a change

See if you wisharticle. I'll link it to wiki Tirana to cheer up the reader. Apostolos Margaritis

Sou esteila gramma kai se eidopoihsa parapanw (#Outlook). 8a mou apanthseis 'h to kratas gia ekplh3h? :NikoSilver: 13:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Yassou Niko. Dhen eime ego o Bonapartis Apostolos Margaritis 15:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not fair Telex

Why are you really giving such importance and exposure -via Khoikhoi- to a 4ever banned (and irrelevant if irreverentious) user such as Bonaparte? What's your point I don't get you really? The same applies to the Gligorov quote. He was for a while in the 1990's President of the Republic of Macedonia. So what? He was a Titoist of the old school and what he had once said IS NOT in any way relevant to the current stance of the Government of that country. Shall I start to look now for quotes of the Greek Colonels and Junta copy&paste them on my discussion page and then pass them as relevant and updated stuff which characterize the Greece of today? Apostolos Margaritis 15:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

BTW There are incipient radio broadcasts and education in Kurdish language in Turkey. No such delicacies for the Arvanites and Vlachs of Greece available as yet. What matters is the stance of the state and not what banned individuals such as X or Y (sometimes Greek provocateurs in disguise) clamour to say. In that respect Turkey has made courageous steps in order to tackle the lack of rights of its ethnic minorities. Not the same thing can be said alas! about the Greek state Apostolos Margaritis 15:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Kurdistan Observer Turkey's parliament voted in August to allow TV and radio stations to broadcast in regional languages such as Kurdish. EU countries welcomed the reform but ... home.cogeco.ca/~konews/ 20-11-02-kurdish-to-be-aired-tky.html - 30k - Cached - Similar pages

BBC News - Country Profile: Turkey Kurdish-language broadcasts, banned for many years, were introduced by the state ... Turkish Radio and Television (TRT) - state broadcaster, operates four ... news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/ europe/country_profiles/1022222.stm - 73k - Cached - Similar pages

Macedonia (newspaper)

Telex, if you go to the top of Category:Macedonian newspapers it clearly states: "This category contains articles related to the Republic of Macedonia". Last time I check Macedonia (newspaper) is not related to the Republic of Macedonia. Unless that heading is changed the category you are placing Macedonia (newspaper) is wrong.[33]. Also Category:Macedonian culture falls under again the Republic of Macedonia, so that newspaper is a Greek newspaper and does not belong in that category. ~Controlls, 21 June 2006

It doesn't any more. --Tēlex 16:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Just saw it. Thanks for the change. I've reverted to your last edit. ~Controlls, 21 June 2006

Category: Macedonian ...

Here are the categories that might need disambiguaition (Republic vs. region):

• Category:Macedonians
• Category:Macedonian music
• Category:Macedonian culture
• Category:Macedonian people
• Category:Macedonian drinks
• Category:Macedonian revolutionaries
• Category:Macedonian musicians
• Category:Macedonian footballers
• Category:Macedonian dynasty
• Category:Macedonian singers
• Category:Macedonian politicians
• Category:Macedonian newspapers
• Category:Macedonian poets
• Category:Macedonian magazines
• Category:Macedonian writers
• Category:Macedonian painters
• Category:Macedonian artists
• Category:Macedonian art
• Category:Macedonian law
• Category:Macedonian pianists
• Category:Macedonian society
• Category:Macedonian media
• Category:Macedonian literature
• Category:Macedonian racecar drivers

  Andreas   ^(T) 18:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

userpage

Yes I can delete your userpage if you would like. Please please the following tag on that page: {{db-owner}} This will add it to the CSD category, which I will go through shortly. -- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns) 21:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Arvanitic

I was wondering, how many days exactly did it took for the first Greek Parliament, to choose between Albanian and Greek as the official language? greier 13:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The Greek parliament had no say in it. The Greek Orthodox Church called the shots. --Tēlex 13:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

So it`s true? How come this doesn`t appear on the Greece or History of modern Greece or Greek language or Modern Greek articles? greier 13:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

So what's true exactly? It's a commonly accepted fact that the Greek Orthodox Church was behind the uprising against the Ottoman Empire. It all (allegedly) started in hidden schools known as the krifa scholia. Do you doubt that the Greek Orthodox Church preferred Greek to Aromanian, Arvanitic etc? Arvanitic had no chance of being the only official language, but it could have been a co-official language, at first at least, because the Greek state initially spanned the traditionally Arvanitic speaking areas. Note that most Arvanites were bilingual whereas most Greeks proper knew only Greek. There was no realistic chance of Greek, the language spoken and understood by everyone, not being official, whereas a language only spoken by part of the population being official. --Tēlex 14:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

A cover-up, obviously. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

See it this way. Greek had a written form, Arvanitic did not. --Tēlex 14:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Aha, ok then! I`ll add this: that Greek was choosed as the official state language instead of Albanian, because it had a written form, and Albanian didn`t. greier 15:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey, greier, you need your irony meter readjusted. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

When I wonder, I`m bashed... When I say that I understand, I get bashed again... Anyway, where should I put this info? In Arvanitic language, Modern Greek, History of modern Greece or which article? greier 16:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Nowhere, because it's unsourced Arvanite POV. --Tēlex 16:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

BTW, I'm thinking that the only way of getting that Arvanites article stabilized in the long run is to get it to featured-article status. Want to share your ideas? I've been in contact with Matia off-wiki discussing a few things - first want to have a consensus in place about the politically sensitive wording things and then tackle the rest. In these special circumstances I think some private off-wiki "negotiations" between the principal interested parties is legitimate. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm easy going. As far as I'm concerned, the article should make unambiguously clear that Arvanitika is a form of Albanian and that the Arvanites self-identity as Greeks (if anyone doubts these, I can adduce evidence for both). I also dislike POV tags on the basis that a) they uglify the article, and b) the readers ignore them anyway. Regarding anything else, I'll just go with consensus. --Tēlex 13:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, good. I'll see to it that we keep you informed. By the way, I've decided not to get involved in the petty reverts this time, I will neither enforce or oppose the tag at the present state of the article. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The delightful Bonaparte

I blocked the IP. - FrancisTyers · 14:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Telex, sorry, but i totally disagree. if the greek names will be removed, i will remove the turkish as well. instead of insisting in adding the turkish names in western thraki, why don't u add the greek in eastern as well? (Poli included). This would be NPOV. i am not asking u to remove the turkish but add the greek! i am simply calling for neutrality... --Hectorian 14:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I think I've done that quite a few times already. Someone always keeps reverting me though. --Tēlex 14:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I just saw your efforts. well, it is hard to achive NPOV. i will help in this. but, as i said, no double standards... either both greek and turkish, or just greek or turkish. --Hectorian 14:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Telex, I m very pleased that finally after all these reverts you as well as Hectorian understand that it is very important as well as NPOV to include the Greek name on Istanbul article, if we want to include any Turkish name on Alexandroupoli or Xanthi. However the minute they revert again the Greek name I ll start erasing every Turkish naming from all Greek articles.Thank you.Mywayyy 15:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Mywayyy, don't. First, these edit wars are harmful no matter what the merits of the case are, and if you persist I'm going to press to get you indef-blocked. (Your block evasion through anon IPs should by rights have gotten you at least a week by now anyway.) And as for content, you should have noticed by now that with Istanbul/Constantinople we have the naming issue not merely in the intro sentence but actually in a separate article of its own. It's already there, dammit. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Istanbul

Can you explain why do you feel the need to put the Greek name in the introduction? DeliDumrul 14:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Would you please kind enough to explain yourself? Why do we need to include the names in the other languages anyways? All governments in the world use Istanbul when corresponding in English, so as all the English media. I don't see any point in including any other names in the main article, as there is already another article on other names of Istanbul and a link to that article in the main article. I would understand inclusion of the Turkish alphabet version (but i don't find it crucial), because that would be what you see when you go to the city. DeliDumrul 15:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Iancu

It`s clear that you reverted not because you actually knew what it was all about, but because it was me. Simple as that. You went to history, saw my edit and, without knowing what it was all about, you reverted because I`m a nationalist... So I don`t need your "compasion", as my opinion of you, formed a long time ago, doesn`t allow such acts from people like you or Khoikhoi... greier

Telex, I think the category created by Greier was an (unwittingly?) good compromise. I believe it could serve as a subcat for Hungarian soldiers, and it would be a good piece of subcategorizing for that matter. I'm trying to find a solution here, and I certainly think the cat:Romanian soldiers is a major exaggeration (and walks all over guidelines which point out that Pushkin should not be referred to as an "Ethiopian poet"). In fact, I'm willing to bet that, if Hungarians would show any care in categorizing (so far, they're one of the messiest communities in that area), this subcat would pop up on its own. Again, from my point of view, this is not minimizing his status as a Hungarian: it is establishing period and accuracy. Think about it, and please answer on my talk page. Thanks. Dahn 19:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe it would be a subcat. I mean, "Hungarian" in this context means "of Hungary" (and I cannot think of a closer connection to Hungary than being its soldier...). At the same time, "Kingdom of..." would act as a more accurate category per period - and all questions of different nationalities, the usual lack of fundament ethnicity had in the period, the value of being "a subject of" and "a noble of", would all be alluded to by the "Kingdom of" particle in the cat title. I think this would be by far the best solution. Dahn 19:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Correct. It`s weird to see Hunyadi in the same category with Miklós Horthy... greier 20:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

... nad Pirina plameney...

Hi! You might like to take a look at the newly-non-redirected Pirin Macedonia article and share your thoughts whether we need it as a separate article from Blagoevgrad Province. I for one think we should merge the new info from Pirin Macedonia in Blagoevgrad Province and re-redirect it back to where it belongs. Not to mention it could become sort of a craddle of Macedonism if the hounds get wind of it. Todor→Bozhinov 15:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

See what we did when a POV fork was created for Aegean Macedonia [34] and Solun [35]. That's why you must watch the redirects - Macedonism is getting out of control. --Tēlex 15:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

“ Aegean Macedonia is another name for Belomorska Trakia ”

LOL, didn't know that :) Todor→Bozhinov 15:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

It's incorrect; I remember seeing User:VMORO pointing that out somewhere. --Tēlex 15:22, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's an absolute confusion of historical regions — Aegean (Belomorska) Thrace is the northern Aegean coast of Greece and European Turkey, and Aegean Macedonia is clearly Greek Macedonia. The border between the two regions is the Mesta (Nestos) River AFAIK. Todor→Bozhinov 17:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Turns out Macedonian isn't Bulgarian after all (at least thats what I think it says) — maybe I'm wrong? - FrancisTyers · 22:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

This isn't Skopje, where you can get away with straw man arguments. That article will need to be converted into the Bulgarian alphabet out of the custom made alphabet for the "Macedonian" language. Frankly, I'm rather surprised you thought that you could get away with posting a text in the "Macedonian" alphabet on bgwiki - that would be like posting an article from srwiki in Cyrillic on hrwiki, or a Hindi article on the Urdu Wikipedia. --Tēlex 22:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't particularly making an argument. I was making an amusing observation. Sorry you didn't get it. First analogy valid, second analogy not. Incidentally my point was that instead of fix the article (which they appear to be lacking) by fixing a few spellings they would prefer to delete it. I mean, its an article about an African capital city, how Macedonian POV can it be? Damn, it really is a shame you didn't get it :/ - FrancisTyers · 23:42, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand what you're saying. --Tēlex 23:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Souliotes

Hi, could you folks please help and keep an eye on the Souliotes article? It seems like just when we are close to pacifying the Arvanites for good, some people are determined to open up the same old story on other articles, doggedly trying to minimize all references to the ethnic Albanian contribution to the Greek nation at all costs. One user, User:Sshadow goes as far as to claim that prior to 1913(!) no Albanians even existed... Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:31, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Why do you eliminate Country designations

refering to: [36] The historical periods of the city Istanbul were based on state designations, which were classified on the empires ore states that ruled the city; They are not based on the language such as "period of Istanbul"; or Istanbul period; Don't you think this naming wars are becoming really absurde? Please revert your changes. Thnks--OttomanReference 17:49, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I already have! I accidentally reverted to an earlier version, and within a minute, reverted myself. In effect, my modification can be seen here, as you would be aware had you have looked carefully at the page history before accusing. --Tēlex 17:54, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Kastoria et al.

Sorry, I just realized now that the articles had name sections. —Khoikhoi 19:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

An twra ton xanapw anthellina i kati xeirotero, egw tha ftaiw?!!! epeidi den mporei na perasei tis idees tou, epitithetai se arthra pou aforoun tin Ellada?ti... pou einai merikoi anthropoi.... --Hectorian 16:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Regarding reversions[37] made on June 26 2006 (UTC) to [[38]]

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert an article to a previous version more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you. (ESkog)^(Talk) 16:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Solanki etc

Thanks for the help.

It is hard to a get a good article going, when some people insist on reverting material, for the sake of it.

Ravi Chaudhary 17:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Ravi Chaudhary 17:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Your new page

Thank you for changing your user page. I don't know what made you to change that, but now we can talk like two normal human beings. Mutual respect is the first step in understanding each other. Best regards. --Cigor 22:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Fantastic compromise on tag

With two words you have brilliantly restored the NPOV we should so selflessly protect.

exeis gramma!:NikoSilver: 23:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

If this is about Russian Architecture, I have just restored it to something close to your version. Reason: Mbuk reverted pointing to talk about your change, where I could not see anything recently added. Note that I also corrected a gramamtical error in the text. "hundreds years" -> "hundreds of years". Keep up the good work! --[[User_talk:Pan_Gerwazy]] 07:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

AndriyK sent me the same warning as to you. He then reverted, taking the grammatical error back in. It now turns out that all this is because he was not allowed to replace Chernigov (the old, and also Russian spelling) by Chernihiv (new Ukrainian spelling) in "Architecture of Kievan Rus'. In Wikipedia, the policy is to keep the old forms in historical contexts. What a circus. I decided to make a point ("advertise" seems to be the term here) and put "our" tag back in. I also replaced "the article" by "an article". The simple POV tag you proposed would also be OK for me. I hope I do not take too much of your time - it has taken too much of MY time.--Pan Gerwazy 15:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Rajput

Slightly confused as to what is going on here, can you be more specific ? Judging by the amount of reverting going on I might just protect the article. - FrancisTyers · 12:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe I'm blind, but I can't see Tamzigh mentioned in the RfAr. Can you point it out for me? - FrancisTyers · 12:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

So you are saying that Tamzigh is a sockpuppet of one of these users... which one? I'm sorry I can't be of more help, the best option is to probably take this to WP:AN/I. - FrancisTyers · 12:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Important

Please vote: Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2006 June 28#Template:POV-tag --Ghirla ^-трёп- 18:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Comunism

Telex, I agree with you that comunism was wrong society, but after all mine people got partial freedom under that eastern regime, something that by novadays states is not recognised by "some" reasons. --Vlatko 20:54, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

You seem not to be able to accept that counting the Bulgarian population of Pirin Macedonia as Macedonian was a temporary and unsuccessful political move. It was imposed from the outside in order to seek the joining of Bulgaria in Yugoslavia, with Pirin Macedonia becoming part of the Macedonian SR and the Western Outlands being given back to the future Bulgarian SR. Here's our point of view: http://demos.hit.bg/makm.html. Here's a further agrument: if there really were Macedonians in Bulgaria that were given actual freedom to self-determine back then, why would only those in Pirin Macedonia do so and not the at least twice as many refugees from the region living in other parts of the country? That's because a Macedonian ethnic consciousness was only needed there for political reasons, to justify a political decision that was never implemented after all.

It's absurd to think Stalinism gave freedom to anyone that modern democratic Bulgaria does not. You shouldn't believe everything you're told especially when you're living in the Republic of Macedonia, and should always doubt and check everything for yourself instead of repeating and repeating what could be regarded as propaganda. Todor→Bozhinov 14:07, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, yeah... I wrote partial freedom . I just only want to show you that I'm not atacking you at all, I just defend and demand our rigths, have you been in Pirin?--Vlatko 19:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I know what you wrote, but what you mean is, those Macedonians that you refer to enjoyed more rights then than they do now, which is ludicrous. And Dimitrov's descent can't in any way be the reason for that 'better status of Macedonians' you mention.

I haven't assumed you're attacking me, just noting what you say is not the truth as perceived by everyone, but just a point of view. It's OK to fight (figuratively) for your rights, but I don't see what's wrong with the so-professed Macedonians' rights in Pirin Macedonia today. They're a small minority and are treated as one. It's normal to ban anti-Bulgarian and anti-constitutional parties, I believe. If the newly-reregistered UMO Ilinden-Pirin does not act as one, it would not be banned, I can tell you that.

And yes, I've been to Pirin and Blagoevgrad Province. Todor→Bozhinov 17:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Please do not edit the text in POV because tag and do not replace it by another one

The purpose of the tag is to represent the view opposite to that represented in the article. The present version of the article reflects the view of one side of the dispute. In my opinion, it is not neutral. I marked our disagreement with the tag, which reflects my view. You may disagree with my view. Then let's work together to find a common point. Please do not edit the tag and do not replace it by another one.--AndriyK 21:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Rocky Horror Rajput Show

I've now written a little template for making the daily reports more efficient. Please see User:Future Perfect at Sunrise/Rajput report, and what it does here and here. I'll appreciate any ideas or modifications on how to improve it. By the way, I'd suggest you and your valiant friends should make it a rule not to revert the guy until he's blocked for the day, that would make it a bit more efficient. If you like the template, we could move it to your space, "User:Telex" is quicker to type than "User:Future Perfect at Sunrise". --Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:20, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Not any more! :NikoSilver: 10:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Its a user I registered to make my sig smaller, like User:N! for Niko. I wanted to have my talk page in my sig, but I didn't want a monsterous sig, so this seemed like a reasonable idea. I didn't intend to edit from it, but I think I may have made one edit by accident. - FrancisTyers · 21:57, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Aromanians

Have a look at the statements which I deleted. There were all uncited, unhistorical and POV. Mitsos 10:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

It is Hectorian (a Greek, and self-declared Vlach) who argues that Patriarch Athenagoras is Aromanian, not me. Two, Romania did participate in the 1878 Russian-Turkish war. The rest are unjustified deletes, like the removal of the cities in Thede Kahl`s quote... greier 10:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Oooops, someone is mentioning my name again:p... Yeap, I am Greek and Vlach (lol...self-declared?... why can't u just accept it? do not expect all people to have the same ideas with u...). U want references that Athenagoras was Aromanian (and 'strangely' all considered him a Greek by descent)? the Council of Europe says he was aromanian [39]. Quite to your surprise, Greier, the Farsarotul Society adapts the info of a newsletter and also says that [40]: Vlachs are well represented among the leading members of the Greek-American community, including such well-known figures as the late Archbishop and Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras and the 1988 Democratic Presidential candidate Michael Dukakis, it goes even further to say that Iakovos and Michael Dukakis (2 of the most prominent greek-americans of the last half century) had and have (respectively) aromanian origins. this may seem odd to u, but they have never hidden their aromanian origins-at least people here know very well that they are Vlahoi. the fact is that the aromanians consider themselves and are considered by the rest of the Greeks as ... Greeks! u'd better finally accept it! --Hectorian 18:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

loooooooool! So wtf are they? Vlachs or Greeks? hahahha hahahhaaaaaaa haha.... greier 08:55, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

lol...latin-speaking Greeks... a subgroup of the Greeks... U can't understand it, can u? haha --Hectorian 16:29, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Template

This edit [41] of yours is fine by me:). I am not getting it anywhere, but honestly, i cannot even guess where are you getting it:/... your previous edit was like 'definately the Byzantine Empire was not Greek', although most scholars and sources disagree... --Hectorian 19:47, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I did not say it was not Greek. I did say that it was not always Greek - initially, it was Latin. --Tēlex 19:48, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Your POV does not differ from mine: it started as a Latin and ended as a Greek empire. that's why u cannot list it along with Roman Greece. Thus, i consider your last edit as accurate enough. Ciao --Hectorian 19:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Ethnicity thumbnails

We need one for Greeks, too. The current one is awaiting speedy deletion at Commons. Jkelly 01:09, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Doric

To 'xera oti tha mou to eleges afto:p. ta katwitalika exoun meikti proelefsi (kathws meiktos itan kai o apoikismos tis perioxis apo Iones, Aeoleis, Dorieis), kai kuriotata attiki, logw tis ellinistikis koinis kai tis byzantinis ellinikis. mono ta tsakonika proerxontai apo ti doriki dialekto, eimai sigouros. --Hectorian 17:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Kai polu kala tha kaneis:) --Hectorian 17:09, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Census

Here is the census data by ethnic group and province. According to it, there were 3,408 people who declared to be Greek (1,157 in the City of Sofia, 766 in Plovdiv Province are the larger numbers). Todor→Bozhinov 19:52, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Arrrrrghhhhh!

Stop the reverting on Arvanites. Please! Both of you...! -- Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, take a deep breath, okay? :-) You know I like you and your work, but between friends, I must say you should be a bit more cautious about using quick repeated reverts as a routine measure (except in cases like the Mutant Killer Rajputs, of course.) Don't let that become a habit, okay? I've seen people branded as edit-warriors at Arbcom for much less, just because they had been innocently standing near some dispute that happened to escalate to Arbcom later, and had a couple of reverts in their edit histories. -- Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

wikithanks

general wikithanks for doing thankless jobs like looking after trolls and Mutant Killer Rajputs :) But also, along with Fut.Perf.'s cousel, remember to keep a cool head whenever you feel emotionally involved. Try to recuse and trust others when you feel your nationality, creed, political stance or preference of yoghurt flavour is involved. dab (ᛏ) 17:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Infobox in Torbesh

By adding an infobox to the Torbesh article you are suggesting that they are not counted as Macedonians in the census - but are in fact an ethnic minority. If this is the case, then an infobox is applicable. However, if they are included as ethnic Macedonians in Macedonians (ethnic group) then you are establishing a whole new ethnicity by adding the population box. Please think over what you're pressing upon the article. All in all, the infobox is unnecessary. Please consider re-removing it. 72.153.53.35 22:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Pomaks live in Turkey as well though - they do not constitute ethnic Bulgarians in that nation. It's different. Torbesh - it says in the article at least - are ethnic Macedonians. 72.153.53.35 22:18, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

• They mostly declare themselves in census as Muslims by nationality, not as Macedonians. PANONIAN (talk) 22:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Greater Greece

Oh my! Haha thats a classic. I'm slightly confused about their vision of Yugoslavia, will it be a Hellenic client state??? Bosnia is certainly looking not so too well off! - FrancisTyers · 22:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

True, exactly how many Greeks are there in Pontos now? Nationalists are crazy the whole world over. I'm sure even that there are pages out there arguing for the re-instatement of the British Empire :)) - FrancisTyers · 23:09, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

as you wish :) - FrancisTyers · 23:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I heard of that actually (the Greek volunteers) — pretty crazy o___O — Also, no problem re undeletion, let me know if you want it re-deleted at any point. - FrancisTyers · 23:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Kurdistan Category

Provinces is a region, which its borders are drawn by the country that owns the region. So if we say province we understand political region. Not cultural or geographical. You are adding those politcal regions 1 by 1 like jigsaw pieces which creates a big "political" region and it is called Kurdistan. May I ask what is the purpose? --Kokotek 00:06, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Summary by Alex Bakharev at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Irpen

Your have endorsed the summary by Alex Bakharev at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Irpen which misinforms the community. Alex Bakharev wrote about Russian architecture: "There is no discussion on the talk page, no suggestions on improving the article". In fact there was (and still is) a discussion on the talk page and solution has been proposed. (Please see Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Irpen#Comment_to_the_summary_by_Alex_Bakharev_and_others). I suggest you to withdraw your signature under the summary.--AndriyK 08:40, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Greek/Turkish placenames again

Hi, User:Ετσιθελωωω is back and still determined to have it Hiswayyy on the Turkish-Greek placenames issues. Ωρέ Τέλεκς τι να κάνουμε τελικά; -- Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I wouldn't mind doing it the official way (I've been meeting opposition to this scheme at Talk:Macedonians (ethnic group) though). The official way involves placing only the Greek names in the first paragraphs of all placenames on Greece, with the exception of the Turkish names on places in Thrace (Xanthi, Komotini etc). Other names can be mentioned elsewhere. Of course, this is just mywayyy. The way it seems to me is that we have two choices: we can either revert without prejudice, or let him have it his way. Do you know that edit-warring over foreign names in Greek places has been listed at WP:LAME for some time now? --Tēlex 11:37, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, for my ownwayyy see hisss talkpageeee. By the way, we should have an extra WP:LLLLAMEEE ("List of Lamest Long-Lasting Arguments with Multiple Eruptive Editwar Events"). -- Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:04, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Pulling my leg? ;-)

Hi Telex. No, really, are you serious? In my opinion we can't really accept weasel words like "Macedonian human rights activists in Greece"; and even if an activist, there is a minimum of relevance that should be respected, as not all statements have the same value.--Aldux 11:53, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Over-enthusiastic

In the article Macedonians ethnic, you were over enthusiastic and rushed in blind with you revert. Your rushed reverts have re-created the state of Serbia and Montenegro (it no longer exists); they have erased the clarification that it is a militant group of Slav Macedonians who claim that the 5,000 in Bulgaria are oppressed; the revert has re-introduce the term Aegean Macedonia where it is Greek Macedonia. It would be a good idea to be a little more eclectic with reverts. If your look at the results I think you will agree with me. Politis 12:12, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Check your e-mail in a few minutes. --Tēlex 12:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

3RR

You are in danger of violating the three-revert rule on Goce Delchev. Please cease further reverts or you may be blocked from further editing. the above applies to me also. We don't want 3RR casualties on such a WP:LAME edit war. Bomac 16:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

CheckUser

Well, the IP is registered in Bulgaria. To be honest, I don't think its worth going for CheckUser, just sort it out on the talk page. - FrancisTyers · 19:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

inetnum:   84.43.128.0 - 84.43.159.255
netname:   MNETBG
descr:    MNET Internet provider
descr:    Varna 9000, Bulgaria
country:   BG

Done. - FrancisTyers · 19:14, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Removing warnings

Hi,

Why did you deleted my warnings from user:Bormalagurski's page. Plase note that removing warnings is considered vandalism. --Ante Perkovic 19:34, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah, so that's what that was. Sorry, I was trying to leave him a message, and had a Wikipedia:Edit conflict. I thought it was because I clicked "save" twice. Sorry again - it was unintentional. --Tēlex 19:36, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

No problem, Boris would have deleted anyway. He didn't like what I wrote. --Ante Perkovic 20:14, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey

I agree, lets end that. We should... start from the begining. Hi, my name is Boris :) --serbiana - talk 19:52, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Sterbinski

I don't see any particular problem with it. See WP:TPG and WP:USER, soapboxing is definately out! :) Depending on how many there are, you should make a list of ones you remove in a subpage to your userpage so someone else can look over them — me if you like, or make a note on WP:AN/I. - FrancisTyers · 20:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Are you feeling tense, my fellow Greek?

(rv. sockpuppet. Sshadow, Deucalionite or whoever it it - I advise against what you're doing; a positive IP check could result in a block.)

I want to know why you suppose I am a sockpuppet. It could be you who reverted it to cause conflict. Bring the IP address on. — Sshadow 10:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Check Goran's contributions. It's clearly someone's sockpuppet. --Tēlex 10:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Probably. Nevertheless, the revert he did @ Souliotes was justified. The latest additions f.ex. the names of Souliote fighters written in Albanian, what's the point of that? That language didn't even exist when those people were around. — Sshadow 11:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying why we shouldn't bother taking anything you might have to say about Balkan history seriously. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Could you please take a look

Telex, could you please take a look at Demographic history of Kosovo, I would like a second opinion. One user constantly removes a template linking the article to other Serbian topics which led to a little revert war between me and him. What is your view on this, am I mistaken in insiting that the template should stay? TSO1D 21:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

a simple request

Please read here [42]. Thank you. Adriatikus 07:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Georgia

Hi, please see my note at Talk:Georgia (country). I am willing to go to great lengths to show you I have no intention of this affecting Macedonia related issues if you consider changing your vote. - FrancisTyers · 12:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

He's only using Anon-IPs so I'll semi-protect those pages. Did you see my note above? - FrancisTyers · 11:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Ακόμα με το έτσι θέλωωω

Ετσιθέλωωω is fast steering towards an indef ban now. There's a notice by Fran on AN/I, and a new report page (also usable as a vandal reporting template) at User:FPaS/Mywayyy. Your thoughts? Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:19, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Answered on my page. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems someone has gone ahead and made the block indef, plus semiprotected some of the articles. If you feel he can be "redeemed", I have no objections in principle, but we'd need a pretty convincing commitment from his side, I'd say.

Actually, just now I also hit upon the most Salomonic of solutions imaginable, one that would make even him happy (perhaps). Not even a compromise but an absolutely fantastic, clean, triple-win solution:

• I once said I wanted to have the Turkish names included because many of them are linguistically interesting, right?
• I also said that whether or not to have them in the first sentence is a matter of quantity. If it's just a simple list of one or two alternative names, it goes in the intro. Things that are complex and require explanation should go somewhere else. I think Khoikhoi's opinion was somewhat similar.
• So, if anybody wants to get the names out of the intro, let them just go and find something interesting to explain about them. As soon as we have an interesting story to tell about the Turkish name (etymology, historic usage, borrowing into other languages, ...) we have an absolutely convincing pretext for moving it down in the text. No loss of face for anybody, and the encyclopedia wins too.

But I'm not sure if Mywayyy could be prevailed upon to start reading Turkish etymological dictionaries... Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Macedonism

The seem to treat certain facts the way they'd like them to be, without taking other facts in consideration. It's funny and highly unprofessional to support your irredentist claims with such speculative theories, but sadly, this is what a whole newly-emerged nation has been taught at their schools for a number of decades now. The bad thing is they truly believe in it and disregard any evidence proving them wrong, as authoritative as it could be.

Umm, if Goce Delchev had one said 'I'm a pure Bulgarian, f*ck the Macedonians', then they possibly would've interpreted it as 'I'm a pure Orthodox Christian Slav, f*ck the Muslim Albanians from Macedonia' :) I can imagine that...

They (the ethnic Macedonians) are just looking for their identity in the past, for any historical grounds to prove their right to exist as a separate people, and I understand them and feel for them, but the serious science wouldn't ever find any evidence supporting their claims. They have to understand they're a new people, recognize their Bulgarian past, drop the Ancient Macedonians ancestry bullsh*t, and live as a separate people in their separate country in peace with their neighbours. No one has the desire to deny their right to exist, but in return they have to respect their neighbours' (Bulgarians, Greeks, Serbs, Albanians) history, not try to steal it.

And, of course, they have to leave all Solun, Gorna Dzumaja, Gora and Prohor Pchinski and Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo aspirations in the past. They're totally inappropriate in our multicultural world and our Europe of tolerance. Todor→Bozhinov 12:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think they should be redirected, since they're bound to remain pointless forks.

Of course, I'd be happy to see thorough separate articles about the geographical regions of Golo Brdo and Mala Prespa and the Prohor Pchinski Monastery, like there's a separate one (sadly a stub) devoted to Gora. The regions are notable enough for having an ethnically distinct population (Slavs in Albania) and the monastery is quite important as a cultural symbol in the Republic of Macedonia, but the grouping is inappropriate, highly Macedonistic and senseless. Todor→Bozhinov 14:45, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Καλτσομαριονέτα

Σαν καλτσομαριονέτα μου φαίνεται ένας καινούργιος που γράφει για το συνηθισμένο θέμα και με ιστορικό όνομα χρήστη. Αλλά δεν πειράζει. Politis 12:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Nonsense?

Does the Greek government recognise Turks as an ethnic minority? Or does it not place them under the "Muslim minority" category? Why is this nonsense? --A.Garnet 13:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

The Greek government does not deny the existence of a Turkish minority in Greece, and makes estimates to the number of ethnic Turks within the Muslim minority and delivers Turkish language education. It does recognize a Muslim minority, but acknowledges the fact that many of them are ethnic Turks. It even recognized all Muslims as Turks until the 1980s, when the policy was halted to prevent the Turkification of the non-Turkish ethnicities. That's why the minority is officially referred to now as the "Muslim minority", and opposes the usage of the word "Turk" in relation to it. You've read the link I gave? --Tēlex 13:09, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

The minority rights of Muslims in Greece stems from the Treaty of Lausanne which talks about Muslim (and not Turkish) poeple.   Andreas   ^(T) 14:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, however at the time of the Cold War, when Bulgaria was the enemy and Turkey was Greece's NATO ally, it was needed to Turkify the Pomaks so as to distance them from the Bulgarians. So, under the Fessopoulos directives, the Muslim minority became a Turkish minority, until the 1980s when the Greek government relized its mistake and revered the policy. If as you say, the Greek government doesn't recognize the Turkish element in the Muslim minority, why do they issued esimates on the number of Turks, Pomaks and Roma in the minority in 1991 [43]? --Tēlex 14:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, they may acknowledge there are Turks in their country, but the fact remains they are recognised as a religious minority, and not on their ethnicity, which is exactly what i wrote, and what you rather insultingly labelled as nonsense. Look, i'm not trying to turn this into a political point scoring article (although talking about the treatment of Greeks in Turkey, in article about Turks in Greece did look like point scoring to me)I was just including the most prominent issue concerning the Turkish minority, and you labelled it as nonsense and merged the article. Considering there is a Albanians in Greece, and Aromanians in Greece, i don think its unfitting to have a Turkish minority in Greece/ Turks in Greece article. --A.Garnet 14:43, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Aromanians in Greece is a redirect, and Albanians in Greece is an article on a significantly large immigrant community (five times as large as the Turkish minority). You can merge that if you want, but it's not about an ethnic minority, but about foreign immigrants. If that article is that important to you, feel free to revert me. I was under the impression that a four line stub [44] was more in context as a section to Turkish people, Greek Muslim minority or Minority groups in Greece. The last already had a stubby section on the issue, so "the most prominent issue concerning the Turkish minority" can written there if properly quoted. There is too much nationalist literature on the web about the evil Greek government, so select your sources carefully. --Tēlex 15:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Oops! Sorry :) Well, I can always ask bogdan to close them, just give me the sign. - FrancisTyers · 15:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, well normally WP:RM polls run for 5 days, and these have only been going 2 days (unless I'm missing something). Btw, can you leave a reply on the Greek-speaking Muslims talk page? - FrancisTyers · 15:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, something about whether it is intended to leave it as a disambig or not. And re: maknews haha :)) - FrancisTyers · 16:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Cigor etc. Well, I've seen he's reverted once, if this is his IP. The IP is registered as below, and I've checked it for an open proxy, and it isn't running one (at least not a public open proxy). I'd say monitor the situation and if it gets more I'll either block the IP or semi-protect the page. But a single revert by an anon isn't really a big enough deal for semi-protection. Let me know if it escalates. - FrancisTyers · 20:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

OrgName:  University Hospitals Health System
OrgID:   UHHS
Address:  11100 Euclid Avenue
City:    Cleveland

Vandalism

Sadly there is vandalism by 62.162.188.110 and user: Andrej Machkovski in article Macedonia (region). Politis 15:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Crispi

Telex can you take a look at the article on Francesco Crispi. I think there are enough sources that support Crispi`s Arbëreshë origin. But one user is all the time trying to change this. Can you do anything? Have a nice day—Preceding unsigned comment added by Noah30 (talk • contribs)

Uninvolved?

Would I be uninvolved after this? What do you think? Jkelly 20:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

JK, personally, I'd be prepared to let Ghirla have his own way, if he continues producing articles each day at the current rate. Yes, I think it would be a bad idea to block Ghirla after he said that to you. I don't know what anyone else would say, but the way I see it is that masterly inactivity is the way to avoid trouble. Another way of saying it would be when in doubt, don't block. There are over 600 admins - someone will have not been insulted by him. If no such user exists; then there may be a problem. Let's not forget that Cicerus's block was minutes after the "comment". --Tēlex 21:00, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm unconvinced. I think "Always warn someone before blocking them" and "If you get warned for incivility, as long as you insult the admin warning you that admin cannot block you" are rules that do not work well together. I'd be much happier with a rule like "Only ArbCom can place editors who have been around for x amount of time on civility parole. Blocks must be applied according to the conditions of the parole." I think that the real problem here is that WP:DR is way too long and too complicated to handle editors (including admins) that simply disagree with WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA or believe that they don't apply to them. I wonder if a better solution would be to turn WP:PAIN into a kind of expedited ArbCom-like structure. Thoughts? Jkelly 21:31, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I think WP:PAIN should be deleted as a pointless bluff and troll playground. According to WP:BLOCK, application of the so-called disruption clause is limited to addresses or usernames that disrupt the normal functioning of Wikipedia, or pose any kind of threat to it. Personal attacks and incivility are not included in the list and I think they oughtn't to, as they're not half as dramatic as the examples listed, nor do they disrupt the normal functioning of Wikipedia, or pose any kind of threat to it. In other words, the threat of a block for personal attacks is a bluff, and an actual block is violation of policy (with the exception of cases where there is community consensus - this is why I believe that consensus should be gathered first). In my opinion, personal attacks for established and experiences users should be handled as follows:

• As a rule, leave ArbCom as a last resort - too time consuming.
• Assuming a user is habitually uncivil:

1. Ask him politely to stop - make no block threats, but don't use those pious, pompous, obnoxious templates. They are not likely to help the situation, but annoy the warned editor. Something as simple as: Hi, these edits were personal attacks ([diff1][diff2][diff3][diff4][diff5]), and are a violation of WP:NPA. For the sake of harmony, please don't do it again. Thanks.
2. If he persists, make a second warning, not with block threats, but merely citing examples of users having been blocked for similar behavior on previous occasions and that it may happen to him.
3. If he persists, take the issue to WP:ANI, see if everyone else thinks the issue is serious enough (and there is a general consensus - this shouldn't take more than an hour), and if so, give a final warning (an ultimatum). If violated, then block. Going through the discussions first saves having to go through all the bickering afterwards.

Personally, I ignore personal attacks, and think everyone else should do the same (i.e. don't feed the troll). More harm could occasion from a specific policy regarding personal attacks (abuse of privilege) than anything good, due to the affluent concept of a personal attack. User:MatriX (formerly User:Bitola) seems to think that calling people from FYROM 'FYROM nationals' constitutes a personal attack. I think that the warning he served to the user saying that qualifies as trolling. What do you think? --Tēlex 21:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

WP:PAIN is, as far as I can tell, failing to do anything useful most of the time. I think that it does make sense to look at incivility as a problem needing to be solved, though. We want good editors here, and we should not limit ourselves to only those good editors who are willing to enter internet-forum-style mudslinging contests. Jkelly 23:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Georgia Move

As a past participant in the discussion on how to handle the Georgia pages, I thought you might be interested to know that there's a new attempt to reach consensus on the matter being addressed at Talk:Georgia (country)#Requested_Move_-_July_2006. Please come by and share your thoughts to help form a consensus. --Vengeful Cynic 04:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Mediation time on Kosovo

I don't think we're getting anywhere with the Kosovo introduction, particularly since Ferick has openly rejected WP:NPOV and is now refusing to discuss sources. Accordingly, I've submitted a request for mediation. Please indicate on that page whether you consent to having the matter mediated. -- ChrisO 09:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Move request for emperors of the Palaeologus/Palaiologos dynasty

Hi. There is a move request for several Palaeologus/Palaiologos dynasty emperors at Talk:List of Byzantine Emperors. I tought you might be interested in.--Panairjdde 22:19, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. --Tēlex 22:19, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

"Arvanitic manifesto"

Hi Telex, you once mentioned you had the text of that old "Arvanitic manifesto" somewhere. Could you send it to me? I'm making some plans for tidying up and rewriting that article, and I think that might be something interesting to include. Also, could you perhaps find in Biris some information about the strength of Arvanite presence in Athens in the 19th century? Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

It was something you mentioned in a discussion with Matia here on your talkpage some weeks ago. Look on the archive page under heading /Archive1#Μπίρης. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:21, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah, then that was a misunderstanding. Does "manifesto" also mean "summary" in Greek? - Anyway, Matia had repeatedly mentioned some (real, political) "Arvanitic manifesto" signed by Arvanite leaders sometime in the late 19th century, I thought he was referring to that. I'll ask him. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the population summary, that's still helpful. So, we have a confirmation of what Politis said the other day, that Athens itself historically was non-Arvanite, only surrounding villages (and later suburbs) were, right? Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:55, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Dispute tag at Ukrainization

Yesterday, you deleted the dispute tag at Ukrainization. I would like to point you out that the dispute concerning this article has not been resolved yet. There is a discussion at the talk. Please join the discussion instead of removing the tag.--Mbuk 08:51, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Greek Muslim minority

How do you want it moved, Muslim minority (Greece) or Muslim minority in Greece as Duja suggested? I'll either close this, because even though I voted, the outcome is unanimous or I'll get bogdan to do it. - FrancisTyers · 09:19, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Albanians in the Republic of Macedonia

Telex, lets be clear. At the moment I've got to do some things, but I'm intentioned to treat Objectivee's edits for what they are, POV vandalism; anf it there is a thing I feel is important, it is the observance of NPOV. That said, thanks for you-know-what; now I've obtained support from all three nations involved ;-). Ciao, --Aldux 11:21, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Aldux, let me enjoy your clipped wings now that you're standing for elections and can't edit war or do anything "improper" that nationalistic vandals such as myself do ;-) That article is more accurate that it has even been in days. Objectivee is an Albanian from FYROM - who knows better than him what has been going on? I hope you won't be resorting to blind reverts when whatever you're doing is over. I'll be expanding that article over the next few days and embellishing the human rights situation over there... --Tēlex 11:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry, I won't be worst than usual ;-) That said, I'm happy to hear you want to expand the article; but please remember, regarding Objectivee's edits, they absolutely must conform to WP:V, WP:NPOV, WP:RS; so please search sources. We can't hope Macedonians will believe Objectivee on trust. Ciao to my preferred pov-pusher ;-)))

--Aldux 12:07, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

and another Poll...

Hi. There's a debate about how much "X-ian" one must be in order to be considered "X-American" (or X-Yian for that matter) and be categorized as such. The poll is here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Rules for lists of X-Americans. Kindly weigh in! :NikoSilver: 22:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Your edit warring at Ukrainization

Hi, could you consider stop editwarring on the tags at Ukrainization article and engage in the dispute instead ? --Lysy^talk 09:58, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

hello :)

Hi Telex,

Thanks for the heads-up and support!

Wow, I really tread on a landmine there! (I am neither Greek nor Macedonian, and although I am familiar with the controversy, I thought the article was straight down the line... I was wrong!)

Anyway, hopefully the disambiguation page will sort things out!

Cheers,

AWN

Jews in R.M.

Id rather say the ethquette fYROM and the word as a whole is funnier. Bomac 14:23, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Arvanites...

Fascinating -- I'd never heard of the Arvanites until visiting your Wiki-homepage.

AWN2 14:28, 10 July 2006 (UTC)AWN2AWN2 14:28, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Vardar Macedonia...

Hello :)

I have tried to clarify someone's post of the term "Vardar Macedonia" on my "Jews in the Republic of Macedonia" article. I am not sure if the term is a loaded Greek or Macedonian term -- take a look at the article if ou get a chance and let me know what you think. I am also messaging Bomac to get his thoughts...

Cheers AWN2 16:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)AWN2AWN2 16:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

koita tin allhlografia sou --Hectorian 18:50, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Statistics

I think that re:the evangelists statistics, we can see that it is wrong in many places. If you go into Greece, Turks [45] it shows half the Greek islands as Turkish. There are many other mistakes. I think we can show our ability to discern sources of information. You probably see that source in a different way. Politis 19:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

If you think they are unreliable, that is your POV. For all we know, those islands could be populated by people of Turkish origin (have you cited sources to prove the opposite). Back to the point though, Wikipedia should give all views on the matter. Erasing sourced info is against policy (in extreme cases is qualifies as WP:VANDALISM) - we give the figure and the source, and let the reader make up their own mind. Finally, I find it most suspicious that you didn't erase their estimate on the "Macedonian" minority in Greece, but only on the Greek minority in FYROM. --Tēlex 19:27, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, dom't trust maps. They give the figure 152,000 for the Turks in Greece, which sounds reasonable to me. Maps just say where they live, not that they are the only inhabitants of the islands. Just like my map [46], which you hated. --Tēlex 19:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Eeep siga ta mousmoula. No hatred dear friend, really, and there was no intension to upset its author (shor term or long term), on the contrary. I think you are overestimating my ability to focus on all pieces of sourced information, that is why it is alway good to have people pointing them out. In fact, I would have done exactly the same with the "Macedonian" minority in Greece; I think that you suggesting that I erase it? Of course I will do it because the last thing I want is to raise suspicions. I agree with you that we need to be fair to all sides. And it must be your sense of humour that the people of those Greek islands are populated by people of Turkish origin. Politis 19:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Kampanaki+Kampanaki+Kampanaki = Tria Kampanakia! :NikoSilver: 21:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Just a liitle warning

A user was concerned that you tried to blackmail on the Talk Page of Macedonia during a revert war that left Luka Jačov blocked for 3rr, please be a little more civil. Thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 22:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, no problems, thanks for your reply. Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 22:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I read the talk and I don't see any blackmailing, only the accusations in it. Using strong words against opponents accusing them in PA, ABF and such is the old trick. Now it's "blackmailing"... --Irpen 22:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Macedonia (terminology)

Well, that'll be the first article we're not bitching too much about! :-) :NikoSilver: 22:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

RfC

Hi, were you aware of Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Telex? Let me know if you want me to get involved. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

RfC

A Request for comment about your conduct has been filled.--AndriyK 10:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Responded. --Tēlex 12:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Something new

Can you believe this? I see from this visit to your talk-page that you are having problems. Tell me how I can help. Regards, ImpuMozhi 12:53, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Re;

You bet. --HRE 18:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Resistance is futile

Re.: Rajputs, give it up, VoA's bot has been assimilated by the mutants. You and I are going to be next. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:16, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

no messages

I do not seem to have received email from you. do try again... dab (ᛏ) 21:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

sorry, I was exchanging message with Fut. Perf. and had too many tabs open, mistaking this for my own talkpage. Never mind :) dab (ᛏ) 21:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Edit warring

Please stop you edit warring at Ukrainization. Edits like these, [47], [48], [49], [50], serve only to continue the ongoing edit war and are not productive. Edit warring is never acceptable or appropriate; edit warring never improves a conflict, but always makes it worse; the proper response to a content dispute is talk page discussion and dispute resolution. You are not a new editor, and the article has already been protected before, so I'm giving you and the rest of the edit warriors there a 24 hour block to cool down. Dmcdevit·t 04:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I've sent you an e-mail, and am waiting a response. --Tēlex 21:11, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Yat (Ѣ, ѣ)

Oh well, the pronounciation is the key :) Actually, the yat represented a vowel in Proto-Slavic which has developed to become various vowels in the different Slavic languages, so, basically, neither the letter nor the vowel exist in any modern Slavic language and alphabet. But they've left us a legacy :)

In Bulgarian, the yat vowel became 'e' ([ɛ]) west of a given line (called an isogloss), the yat border, and 'ya' ([ja]) east of it. West of the line (among others) remain the dialects of almost all of Macedonia, so the modern Macedonian language has bel for 'white' (beli plural), to give an example. On the other hand, Bulgarian phonology is a compromise of west and east pronounciation, so we have byal singular for 'white' and beli plural.

The yat (dropped after WWII) used to represent both sounds ([ja] and [ɛ]), so it was a symbol of unity of the west and east pronounciation. It thus evolved into a symbol of unity of the Bulgarian language and the Macedonian dialects, and that's the sense it's used in on this website.

Serbo-Croatian has the same differentiation, by the way — there the yat became either e (like in Western Bulgaria and the Republic of Macedonia), i or ije/je.

That's it. Hope my explanations aren't too confusing :) If anything's not clear, then don't hesitate to ask me to explain it better. Todor→Bozhinov 13:45, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Yep, the line runs through Greece, so some Slavic dialects in Greece are west of it, others east of it. I don't think it's correct to define those west of the line as Macedonian and those east as Bulgarian, since there are dialects in Macedonia (region) east of the line (in Greece and Bulgaria) and there are dialects in Bulgaria west of the line, but yes, Serres is east and Florina is west of it. Bear in mind that the map might have some inaccuracies — it shows my hometown Pleven as speaking an east Bulgarian dialect, when in fact we speak a very pronounced and somehow characteristic west Bulgarian one.

And yes, just like the Greek polytonic script, there is the pre-WWII Bulgarian orthography that used to have the yat, big yus (Ѫ, ѫ) and an unpronounced ъ at the end of words that would otherwise end with a consonant. It's used in a nostalgic way sometimes, and just like ye olde pub inscriptions you might see it often in traditional pubs, restaurants, etc. Todor→Bozhinov 14:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

OK den tha kanw... btw, don't shoot! i just made a grammar mistake...:) --Hectorian 22:05, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Translation

"Minority groups in Greece si Hellenization. Te rog sa intervii si tu in incercarea de a stavili ethnocentrismul si ultranationalismu grec. Check out the edits. Ce fac ei nu se cheama weasel words? Si de ce sterg labelul sectfact cand e clar ca (cel putin) acea sectiune nu e NPOV. Te rog sa intervii. (Bogdan a facuto) Mersi 20:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)"

"Minority groups in Greece and Hellenization. Please intervene and try to hold back the greek ethnocentrism and ultranationalism. Check out the edits. What I do * not to * weasel words? And why delete the sectfact label when it is clear that (very a bit) this section is not NPOV. Please intervene. (Bogdan has done) Thanks"

That's the best I can do for now :) Hope it is clear enough. I couldn't work out "se cheama", but I think the meaning is reasonably clear. - FrancisTyers · 22:14, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Haha that is a classic! :) - FrancisTyers · 22:41, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

"Minority groups"...

Hi, is there a particular reason why you moved the Minority groups in Greece to Minorities in Greece and then back again? - Just for the record, I personally would support the move. If you find people objecting for the usual reasons of Greek allergy against the M word, let me know. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

See

Macedonians (ethnic group)#Please give me a good reason - FrancisTyers · 10:26, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. - FrancisTyers · 10:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Macedonia (terminology)

Text added in demographics and linguistics. Please comment.:NikoSilver: 12:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

New articles

I have created two new articles: Re-hellenization and De-hellenization. both of them are sourced+references. i hope that u can help in expanding them. Thanks --Hectorian 18:26, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Bravo! Poli orea ine. Eftihos vrikes piyes, diaforetika tha riskarame na ta protinun ya diagrafi. --Tēlex 18:31, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Efharisto:). polu fovomoun oti tha protathoun, gi'afto kai argisa na ta dimiourgisw, psaxnontas gia piges... Kai eimai prothumos na vro kai alles, an einai aparaitito. εν τω μεταξύ, πρόσεχέ τα αν μπορεις... --Hectorian 18:36, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Ta eho vali sto "paratiritirio" ;-) --Tēlex 18:38, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Removal of FYROM Data

Hi, can you please explain why you classified the citation sourced FYROM data with your unsourced figure [51] and called it reversion of vandalism? Thanks. Dr.K. 10:34, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not unsourced. See Demographics of the Republic of Macedonia - their 2002 census recorded 422 Greeks, not 20,000 Greeks. Believe me, that edit was made by a well known vandal. The Joshua Project did not quote theis census. --Tēlex 10:36, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Why was then was it left for such a long time unchanged and why the renaming of FYROM to Republic of Macedonia. As far as I know the name is still under dispute. Thanks. Dr.K. 10:41, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Replace it if you want. If you want to know, I added it in the first place under the name 'FYROM' [52]. Another user then changed it [53], and then the anon (probably User:Kamikazi2) changed it [54]. I just reverted the anon. --Tēlex 10:45, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate your taking the time, thank you very much. Take care. Dr.K. 10:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

About population figures, I prefer official census data if available. It's true that in the official FYROM census 422 Greeks were recorded and there are other sources placing their numbers as 20,000. The official Albanian census found 58,785, and there are sources placing their number at 280,000. The Bulgarian census recorded 3,408 Greeks, whereas other sources place their figure at 7,500, and in Hungary, 2,509 Greeks were recorded, but there are other sources claiming 6,000. I think the official census data should go in the infobox, and if there are other estimates, they should be cited in the main text if necessary. --Tēlex 10:56, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Thanks again. Dr.K. 11:05, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

OK; if you have problems with pov-pushers, don't have problems asking my help.--Aldux 10:59, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Episis --Hectorian 17:38, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Ego exw peistei, perissotero mallon apo alla stoixeia, para apo afton. allwste, den leei kati diaforetiko apo afta pou pistevoun oi vlachoi kai arvanites stin ellada. --Hectorian 21:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Des --Hectorian 21:32, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Heromai! afou ta pas kala mazi tou, den tou zitas na to kanei gia pio polu kairo?:D --Hectorian 23:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

LOL

HAHA! (I literally laughed out loud) Awesome -- I'm tempted to protect the page, I think they'd benefit from "discussion" on the talk page :) - FrancisTyers · 22:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Hellenization

Are you sure that Greier's blocked? Judging from his block log, at the moment he's not. But if problems continue to involve the article, I'll consider semi-protecting the article on the ground of constant disruption.--Aldux 11:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the info; I won't immediately semi-protect, I hope he's given up. But if he retries, I'll act immediately.--Aldux 11:14, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Macedonian Orthodox Church

Regarding your last edit [55]: i cannot understand why u removed it (but also cannot understand why this was added there...). they are orthodox priests and the rites and sacraments they perform are considered valid by all orthodox. the problem with the Macedonian Orthodox Church relys on its status, not on wether its priests are capable of baptising, etc. all the orthodox churches accepts them as orthodox priests, but consider them to belong to the Serbian Patriarchate (these too things are totally different). --Hectorian 19:35, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I know - it's even written on the talk page. It's not sourced though - it may not be true. We don't know - it's unsourced. --Tēlex 19:44, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Boh8eia

Mporeis na breis sources gia:

• Bugarashi (Бугараши) and Bugarofili (Бугарофили) are derogatory terms...
• Srbomani (Србомани) is a derogatory term...
• Bulgaroskopian (Βουλγαροσκοπιανός) is a derogatory term...

Nomizw esy ta pros8eses ayta. Bale tis phges sto Macedonia (terminology). Estw kai e8nikistika sites (opws ayto tou Gerkomani, kanoun). Eyxaristw. :NikoSilver: 10:17, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

To Bulgaroskopianoi to vrika stin efimerida tu LAOS [56]. Ta alla o FunkyFly ke o FlavrSavr ta prosthese. --Tēlex 10:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Some restrain...

Please exercise some caution and restrain in altering the changes made in the Ethnic Makedonian Page. There is some dispute for some of the matters, but it is not really serious. You cannot start a category called Ancient Times, by the phrase modern Mekedonians. Best ofcourse not to have a category at all, but if you insist... All changes to the article were made with caution, are accurate and have a bibliological backround, which i can provide. It is not advisable to delete all changes and step-back to a previous form of the text. It does not show respect to fellow users and ofcourse can provoke a similar reaction. Thanks in advance Haas

Regarding the issue of neutrality

I have a neutral point of view, since i gave no subjective opinions in these matters.I an neither Greek or "Makedonian" Of course i have to admit beeing much more favourable for Greek arguments in this debate, and therefore my remarks were not evenly balanced. I dont thnik that this is the objective. If there are serious arguments fopr both sides i do promote them. I will abstain from further changes but will insist into these 2 points. First the matter of the Ancient Madekonians which is transparent. Secondly, i consider the refference of an opinio juris in the International Organization System completely inaccurate. The Makedonias (sic) have of course the right of self definition and that right is respectes. But self definition has limits, the matter is historical, political, and legal. The UN system, and to a much greater extent all others (econimically orientered)International Organizations has indeed a functionallistic approach and cares only of the exeistance of the state and not a nation. Although things may rapidly change in the immidiate future, at this point there a recognition of a Makedonian nation has not occured in International Institutional Politics. These matters belong to my field of expertiese and i would gladly provide refferences, providing of course tha i see that my effort is initially respected. I have some furhter observations for matters regarding the linquistic minority.I am very familiar with the fact that this is an actuall linquistic and cultural minority that has a perception of belonging to the Greek Nation. On the contrary the Muslim religious minority is a very different case. I will as a token of good will abstain from furhter changes to this or other matters, but do insist to my 2 fist observations.

Thanks in Advance

Ps: I dont know how this article was created, but i spotted some not so neutral small additions (expecially in wording) in the history of the text. I have to notice that there are completely inaccurate and that by revising my changes as a whole, you have defended the galantly. I dont as i already described possible a neutral point of view, and to the same extent that i done have one same applies tou you.

Hi anon, I couldn't help overhearing your conversation with Telex here. As for "I have a neutral point of view", please see m:MPOV and WP:TIGER (sorry, don't take it personally ... ;-) Seriously, I too found your additions rather unbalanced. It's not just that we mustn't introduce obvious personal/subjective evaluations into our texts, it's mainly that our texts should never be seen as advocating any side. - By the way, if you plan on doing more work in a sensitive area like this, may I suggest you get yourself a username? If nothing else, it makes communication easier, and nicer too. In that sense, welcome to Wikipedia! Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:56, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Guilty as charged

Telex, i am sorry i use this page to reply like that.

I do admit that my changes were unbalanced. As i said i was observing the history and making changes in the places that i felt that a subtle effort was made to create impressions. I thank you for the observations, and i see your point. When i have more time at my hands i will make a more prudent effort.

ps: i do insist to the point of accuracy. i do not mislead. Glad to see so many vigilant people

Haas

OK, OK

OK, OK, I believe you. Probably is just another freak nationalist (like many others here). Bomac 17:27, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Just added it to that list.   /FunkyFly.talk_  17:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Telex! Come on, you know its not a personal hatred! Isn't that statement real?

BTW, nothing personal. Bomac 17:55, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

lowering the level here friend...

'"there are minority communities in Greek Macedonia with their own dialect and history but where the overwhelming majority consists of Greeks (who are also known as Macedonians in the region), as well as in Albania and Bulgaria"

Talking of bad english... This phrase does seem to make sense. Am i not entitle to change it? Seems not.

(In any case between you and me there is no seperate history and if you beleive so please make some reffereces to you sources).

The lack of refferences is quite evident in the whole of the text. I do not see why i should provide bibliography for altering (in good faith) passages that state important but in a way unaccurate facts and do not have any reffences to back them up. In any case, i will do so if anyone asks me for it but i wont lose my time when it seems that certain people are quite satisfied with their wotk and do not accept comments and corrections.(but if this is the case they should not write here, really)

As for the ancient period paragraph. It is quite misleading since it does not refer to ancient times at all. Propably should exclude all the passage from text. It is indeed a controversial article and a very amusing one to follow up, from its creation to the seemingly result. Is like drafting a treaty between hostal tribes. The fact that large parts of the outcome derive from original contributions with very clear, highly nationalistic positions for the one (mostly) and the other side is absolutely charming.

Considering all that, i think that i propably could lower my expectations but of course not abandon them. This article has flaws and can be improved. The fact that is controversial should not be considered a problem. There is no thing like status quo ante in wiki as far as i know. In any case my alterations reffer to comonly accepted facts undisputed by all sides. I will sincerely continue keeping you company in your efforts. Thanks in advance Haas

ps: i am not a freak nationalist. The choice of words should be more carefull. You are lowering the level here Bomac (and may i add: an impresseive page, wow! I wonder if you can tell the same thing for yourself...)

Is this your wikipedia (sic)

Well you created it wit the Funk, and the SILVER. No comment, do some critisism to your self. Insteed of beeing pragmatic you are idols of your self--Vlatko 06:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

If I understand correctly we're going overboard criticizing others and idolizing ourselves? Question of taste I suppose.   /FunkyFly.talk_  21:48, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Advice by Vlatko? I am honoured!:NikoSilver: 21:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Pontian Greek Genocide picture

Hi, I have some questions about that photo, can you come to the Pontian Greek Genocide page and help clarify it? --Awiseman 16:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

OK. --Tēlex 17:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Geia

Eixes kapou ena link pou elege poso pseudoscientific einai h ypo-Saharia proelevsh twn Ellhnwn. Mou to les se parakalw giati den to briskw? :NikoSilver: 16:18, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

3exna to, to brhka. Koita Macedonia (terminology) refs 28 kai 29... :NikoSilver: 16:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Greeks in Turkey

Hi there! I think the Turkish source about Kotzamanis figure is more detailed and reliable. The Turkish source says (having followed the whole conference) the figure is 4,720 people, a considerable portion in the figure are "Antiochians" (no figure on the ratio constituted by Antiochians are given). [57] This seems to constitute a problem: will we place a more detailed and relevant news report, which is in a language not known to most people, or a summary one that is in English? Ciao! --Behemoth 17:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Albanians in the Republic

Since the discussion in the edit comments is being carried mainly in Albanian, could you stress the importance of 3RR to Objetivee please?   /FunkyFly.talk_  20:14, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

See:

• Afto kai kane anastrofi se parakalw. Prokeite gia episimo egrafo apo tin Romeo-Katholiki Ekklisia, to opio kai exw sto prosopiko mou arxio (pio katharotero gia anagnosi)!

To sigekrimeno dokumento Epistola Enciclica, einai mia Papiki Egkiklios (EGRECIAE VIRTUTIS) kai taftochrona i anagnwrisi (tis 31-12-1980, apo ton Papa Ioanni ton B') tis Romeo-Katholikis Ekklisias, sto prosopo ton Kirilloy kai Methodiou, aderfwn, Ellinwn, ek tis perioxis Thessalonikis (Cirillo e Metodio, fratelli, greci, nativi di Tessalonica...) ... os Pateres tis Europis. --Asteraki 21:38, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

telex

tung telex,

nuk e di a i ke mare mesazhet a maperparme qe ti kam derguar...?

per temen qe diskutoet "albanians in the r.of mac." kjo teme ose duhet qe te hiqet, ose te mbahet ne balanc opinioni, sepse, alduxi sikur duket po behet fjala se eshte neutral sov o mov ose ku ta di une, por ne fakt teksti qe deshiron aji eshte i njeanshem, dhe disa referenca qe perdoren jan te njeanshme gjithastu, ashtuqe i gjit teksti i pershtatet anes maqedonase... per kete arsye ne qofte se je shqiptar do kisha pritur qe te me (na) ndihmoje ne kete drejtim.

pershendetje,

objectivee

Greek Archieve

Hi Telex! I'm David and I am a pretty frequent user on Wikipedia. Anyway I noticed you archieved the coversation on the page for Greeks, but several people have continued to use the talk page on the archieved page. I'm inclined you let you fix this, since you might have a better idea what's going on. Maybe it would help to put an archieve label at the top of the both of the archieve pages. Davidpdx 04:07, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Lets test them all!!!!!!!!!

Telex... "those people that their leaders at least self-identified as Greeks"??? This sounds ridiculous, and more important sounds quite inaccurate. It is higly unlikely that the Macedonians spoke anything else than a form of Greek and there are certainly no solid evidence supporting such a suggestion. Furthemore despite the isolation of the Makedonians from other Greek tribes, the scientific evidence supporting the fact that the Makedonians were in fact Greeks are overwhelming. In any case if someone feels important to use mitohondrial DNA testing in order to feel complete as human being, no problem there. I am pretty sure that ethnic origins in the Balcans are so mixed up that after some extensive testing all will be considerd brothers and all problems will be solved. (now thats a sollution!!!) But dont go to far to please overgrown egos... (Haas K. D. 02:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC))

Re:

Armenian Page, etch is page in Western Armenian transliteration, whereas I would transliterate it as ej.--Eupator 15:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Macedonia (terminology)

We're almost done for the FA status, but there is too little time to deal with some final opjections, mainly in citation. Your help is needed, see talk! :NikoSilver: 15:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/NikoSilver

Se afora ki esena. xaxaxaxaxaxa! Eleeinh brwmokaltsa! xaxxaxa! :NikoSilver: 01:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Whatsup

Got you tan already? :)   /FunkyFly.talk_  17:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Yup; at last got some colour. --Tēlex 17:28, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Is the Greek translation correct in the beginning of Macedonism? It was inserted by a Bonaparte sock.   /FunkyFly.talk_  02:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Telex, dont forget to sign.   /FunkyFly.talk_  16:02, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

OK. --Telex 16:04, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Check the private channel.   /FunkyFly.talk_  16:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Telex, happy to see you back :-) An admin got to the anon. in question faster than me; but don't have problems asking me in the future for anything I can do. I seem be making my admin speciality dealing with socks of banned users (Bonaparte, Iasson, Mywayyy, Rovoam)! Ciao,--Aldux 18:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Greeks

Jeez, that's way too many. I would go with 10, and then add the rest to Greek diaspora. Since they don't seem to match, use your best judgement of what is the better source, or give ranges between the two numbers. Hope that helped. —Khoikhoi 21:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

hello telex. I am not so interested in Greek Albanian relations but I have read many times in serious Albanians newspapers and Albanian blogs about Northern Epirus, and all of them do not recognize such a term. Recently the term was used by a Greek president and both the authorities and public reacted. I see that you can Albanian, so you can check it yourself. Best regards --Noah30 07:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Goce Delchev

Thanks for the clarification but see, Macedonian by itself is not an ethnic identification, rather georgraphical. The article does not equate it with ethnicity, and uses it as a regional designator.   /FunkyFly.talk_  19:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually nevermind :)   /FunkyFly.talk_  19:19, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Seen it at last ;-) --Telex 19:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm a little jumpy today, had too many coffees for the day probably.   /FunkyFly.talk_  19:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)