User talk:Dennis Brown

Requests for adminship and bureaucratship update

RfA candidate	S	O	N	S %	Status	Ending (UTC)	Time left	Dups?	Report
Worm That Turned	229	3	3	99	Open	09:47, 18 November 2024	4 days, 5 hours	no	report

Get stuffed

	Happy Thanksgiving
	A big thank you from me to you.   little green rosetta(talk) central scrutinizer  05:06, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

• So far, so good. much of the family is here in Texas. The hotel should be sued for false advertisement though, its a bit of a hole, and the internet wifi is literally slower than dial-up. I would go find a hot spot but nothing is open so i wont be able to get onwiki much.. This is also the fist time Ive used an iPad...not bad but odd for a pc guy. Glad I came. Hope everyone is enjoying the holiday. Pharmboy (alt. of Dennis Brown) 12:33, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Just got back from watching the new James Bond movie, Skyfall...long but quite good. Went with a sister and brother whom I only get to see once a year, which made it better. Another sister texted us, shopping at the early Black Friday sales at Target, they had to call the police in to manage the crowds. Yes, I will be avoiding all shops tomorrow...there is nothing I could want worth dealing with kind of chaos. Time for a cup of tea and some sleep. Pharmboy (alt. of Dennis Brown) 04:10, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

• Well, you're one up on me: I still have to see Skyfall. We're back from being gone, and while it was fine, it's also nice to be home again. Hope you had a great trip, and drive safely. Drmies (talk) 04:16, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
• I saw it...other than the half hour of previews before you get to see the movie it was good. Go Phightins! 04:22, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
• I want to see it so bad - haven't got to it though. Vacation^nine 04:23, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

• • Skyfall was somewhat dissapointing. Seemed like a lot of character development to get you used to new actors taking on old Bond roles.   little green rosetta(talk)
    central scrutinizer  00:10, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
    • But you got the backstory, and this time, it was personal. Not the perfect Bond movie, but well worth the 9 bucks spent, at least to me. But then again, I'm the perpetual optimist that tries to find the good in all things. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:12, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
      • Seeing the movie may have been worth nine bucks, but the medium popcorn and small soda was not worth the 11 bucks. Good grief! Go Phightins! 00:17, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
        • • USD9? Gosh, with that and your incredibly cheap gas, I'd be tempted to move over. But then I think of wall-to-wall MickyD-type places and my beloved NHS, without which I'd have been dead on quite a few occasions. Nah, I'll stick here, converse with the nice Yanks in writing and watch the movie when it hits the TV schedules. Provided the NHS keeps doing its job on me, of course! Hope y'all enjoyed your break: now get back to fixing the project ;) - Sitush (talk) 00:18, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
            • We saw it. I thought there was a lot of filler but the last 30 minutes was good. We spent $24 on two hot dogs, two large sodas and a large popcorn with a refill....that we had eaten before the first ten minutes of the film. LOL! I enjoyed Lincoln more.--Amadscientist (talk) 01:35, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
              • Good to see you, it's been a while. I've been curious about Lincoln, which I just saw that IMDB gave an 8.4, extraordinarily high. I guess I should drag the wife out to see that. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:49, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
                • I found myself taking a little Wiki break when I had stuff to do around the house to prepare for a coming winter storm and the holiday prep. I usually fall of the net entirely around November and find my way back around January or Febuary. Lincoln was worth the price! But you may need a bank loan for the popcorn. LOL!--Amadscientist (talk) 07:16, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
                  • Dennis, I'd strongly encourage you to see Lincoln. I agree with Amadscientist, it's better than Skyfall. Go Phightins! 02:53, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
                    • We just rented Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter tonight. It was kinda fun after the more serious film. LOL! Funny thing. I kept saying how much the actor looked like Liam Neeson....turns out , while he is not related....he did play the young Alfred Kinsey in the film "Kinsey". THat made me laugh....not sure why.--Amadscientist (talk) 07:56, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

A new user with an attitude.

Dennis, could you please take a look at this fella? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:NewGuy1001 He has posted some HMTL code on his user and talk page rendering them inaccessible after a disagreement with User:AbigailAbernathy. Seems very problematic to me. Gtwfan52 (talk) 04:41, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) already indef'ed, first appeal declined. --Rschen7754 05:42, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

What we have here is your basic sockpuppet. Of who, I'm not sure, but it pretty obvious this isn't their first indef block. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 07:28, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Due to a question he asked at Teahouse relating to the Teahouse, and the above users attitude about getting a Teahouse invite and the edit pattern for a supposedly new user who started right after the above mentioned fella was blocked, you might want to take a look at User:Twentyfour-dot-something. I am not anything like an expert in these matters, but it kinda smells to me. Sorry for the run-on sentence, but I think you get my drift. Gtwfan52 (talk) 05:41, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Oh, wow. I just looked at something he posted at ANI. I am sure it is. He was rambling on about censorship there. Gtwfan52 (talk) 05:45, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

And he also posted at ANI using his IP. WP:ANI#Offensive edit summaries may require action against the summary itself. Gtwfan52 (talk) 05:50, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

You guys have all the fun after I go to bed. Looks handled now. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:46, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Darn Easterners! Gtwfan52 (talk) 15:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

User:Volons creating a different user page. Huh?

Dennis, what do you make of User:Volons creating the page User:Yuvalwig? Simply a mistake by an inexperienced Wikipedia editor? Flyer22 (talk) 00:24, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

• Don't want to jump to conclusions, but several things there look unusual. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:40, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
  • LOL. So should I ask him (or her) why he (or she) did that? Shouldn't that user page be deleted? I didn't check yet to see if Yuvalwig is a registered editor, but it should usually be the editor's decision to create his or her own user page. Flyer22 (talk) 04:37, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
    • No reason to get involved at this stage. It is a reg'ed account, might be a friend since it is a new account, will just assume good faith for now and watch. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

File:55 Chevy BelAir.jpg

You've used File:55 Chevy BelAir.jpg in one of your articles; however, I'm concerned about it's copyright status and listed it at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files/2012 December 2, just thought I'd let you know. Ryan Vesey 23:10, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

• Some of those may or may not be eligible per the rationale (I have seen many photos under this rationale, but I'm no expert) I will it get hashed out in the appropriate venue and replace if needed at that time. I'm assuming the uploader was notified, so perhaps they can explain more. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:24, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Yep. Ryan Vesey 23:36, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Block evasion

Hi Dennis, Tiptoety blocked Akashasr a few hours ago. The rationale was edit warring, stemming from my report at here, and the period was 24 hours. They had a couple of failed appeals but now 106.67.21.191 has appeared, is making stylistically similar edits on broadly similar topics, and has both refactored Akashasr's talk page and also a comment left by Akashasr here. The IP is persisting despite me leaving a note which it seems they have read, even though they have misinterpreted the intent.

Tiptoety is likely not around, it being 0545 or thereabouts wherever they are. What to do next? - Sitush (talk) 00:52, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

• I've blocked the IP (cell phone, so he can change it in 2 minutes) and lengthened the block on the parent. If you think he is back, file an SPI on him, and also list this ip as already blocked. It is needed for the geolocation and behavioral aspects. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:00, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

• OK, will do. CU won't do anything because it involves linking IPs to registered accounts, but I guess that the behavioural evidence should suffice. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 01:03, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

• It isn't about CU, it is about establishing a documented pattern of behavior that is easier to link future IPs or names to. You can't get a CU to run a checkuser on him, but it is the non-CUs that do most of the blocking around WP:SPI anyway. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:06, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Curious about some new articles

I keep an eye on the new articles pages to watch for North Carolina-related articles and found a curious issue. Don't really know where to go with this. Today, it looks like someone is creating a bunch of what I would call non-notable articles (which in and of itself isn't too big a problem). The articles are not well made (bad formatting, using WP:SYNTH and including a lot of extraneous info), but the main issue I have is that they are supposedly created by multiple users editing in exactly the same way. If it was just one user account, I could leave a message discussing the articles there. I think, however, these may be the same person using multiple accounts (they edit the same way and have much of the same info). However, if it is a class/student project, then I'd like to leave a message for the coordinator, giving them some info about how to edit on Wikipedia, but have no clue who that would be. Please look into the following articles and their users:

4

I guess I'd have to go through a group AfD for all of these if need be, but wanted to let you know of the bigger issue regarding the user(s) actions. Thank you! -- JoannaSerah (talk) 19:52, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

• Looks like a class project. I'm not sure who coordinates these here, but they should let us know in advance. If the articles pass CSD, then even sloppy articles are better than none, but it will require a lot of clean up. I will try to find out more when I get home. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:01, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

True. Looking at it myself more, it does look like a class project. Just not sure why they chose these people to write articles on. I didn't want to bite newbies. Anyway, it just started to look like socking at first. I'm going to go ahead and add welcome messages to the users' talk pages. Maybe that can help some. They might be good editors for the NC WikiProject. Thank you for your help. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 20:32, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) The common thread appears to be these folks were interviewed by the Federal Writers Project. You might want to ask editors over there if they know what's going on. GaramondLethe 22:22, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

The Federal Writers' Project isn't a WikiProject, it no longer exists but was a (United States government) Federal public works project under Federal sponsorship from 1935 t0 1939 and then under sponsorship of the individual states until 1943. But yeah, looks like a class project or some such. I looked through a few of the articles and their subjects didn't really look at all notable. Shearonink (talk) 23:16, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I've looked through about half of the articles listed here and in my opinion none of the subjects so far have been notable. The one thing I can find in common is that all the interviews seem to be listed in the University of North Carolina's Digital Collections - there are over 1000 interviews listed in the Federal Writers Project collection, here. In looking at the articles, it seems that the writers might have had the assignment of verifying the FWP interviews as history with too much of every article text being concerned with assessing the FWP, instead of writing about the asserted subject. Shearonink (talk) 00:04, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

• Perhaps someone should just ask a few of them if they are part of a project, so we can contact the leader/teacher. I don't want to get AfD happy too quickly and discourage them. I would rather sit on marginal articles a few days than ruin the spirts of a bunch of potential quality editors. I'm a bit tied tonight, but if we can find the teacher, I can contact and discuss with them. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:07, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I'll pick a few articles & their creators' names at random and post on the editors' talkpages, see what the response is. Shearonink (talk) 00:12, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I've also noticed that a common source (at least on 3 of the articles I've been able to check, is a 1977 article by Thomas Soapes, "The Federal Writers' Project Slave Interviews: Useful Data or Misleading Source." The Oral History Review 5 (1977): 33-38. JSTOR. Web. 13 Nov. 2012 JSTOR link here. Shearonink (talk) 00:24, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I've left 'Welcome and a question' notes on four of the creating-editors: User talk:Kevinkelleher12, User talk:Codycj, User talk:Cmclean99, and User talk:Karebearayka. Shearonink (talk) 00:43, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the initiative here. I think that handling this calmly and slowly is definitely the best way. I don't think anyone is trying to do anything wrong here, they are just not familiar with our notability guidelines, and maybe the instructor isn't either. If it is a college project, I would probably get one of my professor friends in the loop, who could probably be more helpful. And of course, thank you Joanna for bringing it here, which was the best option. Hopefully we can find a way to actually help them a bit. If only one of them became regular contributors, it will have been more than worth all the effort. If not, it still was, for their benefit. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:58, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Thank you Shearonink. I didn't want to just start going through and deleting those because I did think that it was good faith effort, but the mass of added non-notable articles just struck me as odd. Thank you all for your help. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 02:10, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I remember very clearly how confusing this place was when I first started so I try to give people a lot of AGF, but the sheer volume, the apparent mimicry of all these contributions to each other and the timeline is somewhat troubling to me....but just because I am troubled doesn't mean these editors are out to deep-six the encyclopedia, it just means I and maybe some others are...troubled and *that* means that we want to look into the circumstances a little bit more, because from all the articles I have read, none of the subjects are notable. If someone wanted to write an article about the veracity of the FWP interviews as a oral history project (and I've read them and used them in research before and can see how they could perhaps not be reliable) then that *might* be a reliably-sourced subject but for Willie and Mary Roberts et al?, I just don't see it. Maybe the content can be adjusted into a different form or moved into a different subject or something... Obviously, these people or this person, whoever and whatever they are, have gone to a lot of trouble to learn the WP:MOS, how to Wiki-code an article, how to "do things right", I don't want to throw the article-baby out with the Wikipedia-bathwater unless it is absolutely necessary. Shearonink (talk) 04:37, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I forgot to mention that none of the four have replied to my posts on their talkpages yet. I am going to post some more 'Welcome and a question's on maybe three or four more of the apparent group's talkpages and see if we can get a response from anyone in that group before any severe action is taken. Shearonink (talk) 04:41, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I have now posted the 'Welcome and a question' on four more User talkpages, User talk:JohnRobinson94, User talk:Paigemedlin, User talk:Rhoner, and User talk:Aecorrig. I will mark off the articles up above who have my query-posts on their creator's talkpages now. Shearonink (talk) 05:23, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

This is all part of the philosophy we have at WP:Wikiproject Editor Retention, a project I started in July and that has grown to 100 members already. I appreciate the extra effort here, truly. These little things really make a difference. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 07:55, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

None of the eight editors I contacted have replied yet, which is disappointing. Before any further possible action, I suppose the only thing to do is to manually go through and leave a 'welcome and a question' at every single one of this group of 43 - I'll try to get to that later today. One other thing about this mass addition seems odd to me...all the content was just plopped down into WP main with no other edits in the various editors' userspaces. I did see an instance of a single editor who used the WP:Sandbox once but that is the only one outside article-space so far. Shearonink (talk) 15:16, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

We just have to be patient, it has been only several hours. They may not log in again until class, or until working for that class. These aren't regular contributors, after all. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:26, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Patience is appropriate. I do want to AGF and not scare them off. I just didn't want them to start going through and adding even more articles like that. The Articles for Creation process would have been more appropriate for this stuff. Thank you. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 17:06, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Just as a follow-up, I just noticed that one of the users has answered Shearonink's question. Also wanted to note that a few more articles were created and then some of them PRODed by NawlinWiki: John Belk: North Carolina Textile Worker, Beulah Parson Davis, Wilsie beale, William Edward Bardin, and Eliza Grant. (Also: Halver Halversen (North Carolina)) Thank you. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 18:02, 5 December 2012 (UTC) updated: JoannaSerah (talk) 21:17, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Excellent, I will ping Drmies and ask if he can assist here. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 18:04, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Holy shit, that's a lot of articles. Good for the project, no? Drmies (talk) 18:59, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

OK, after looking at a couple of them, maybe not so. I left a note as well: I don't really want to go emailing if we can discuss this on-wiki, but--and I'm afraid this is typical of such educational assignments--there seems to be no on-wiki oversight. I see no edits by others on talk pages or in articles that would connect us to an instructor, but I have not plowed through all of them. Let's wait a bit--though in the meantime it will be difficult to stop any editor from AfD'ing the articles since these subjects are simply not notable by our standards. Drmies (talk) 19:01, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I deprodded the ones mentioned above, saying "not saying is (or isn't) notable but we should take this more slowly". LadyofShalott 19:17, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Since these are likely students' final projects, is it possible that we can temporarily userfy any pages that are worthy of deletion, at least so the students can get a grade? I looked through a couple and I agree that they don't seem notable in general. Ryan Vesey 19:19, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Isn't there some other wiki project that would accept articles on topics like this? That would alleviate the grading problem. Drmies (talk) 19:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, The NC WikiProject is first in mind since they are all NC people. However, I didn't want to just put them under that umbrella since I didn't feel most (if not all) had real notability. I agree with Ryan Vesey that perhaps they could be moved to their Userspace or to WP:AfC to allow them to really prove notability, etc. Not sure what other projects this would fall under. Thank you. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 19:53, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

No, I didn't mean WikiProjects ;) but rather things like Wikiversity--some place where the actual text can go, not on Wikipedia. Drmies (talk) 19:57, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I knew you would have some idea on how to proceed, much better than I. I'm not smart enough. I went to the Davidson County Library today to get a library card so I can access NC libraries online, and they refused me the card. Sad, I know. And yes, I'm serious. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:52, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

From the response that was posted to my 'Welcome and a question' query at Talk:JohnRobinson94, yes, our theory that these were part of some educational assignment is correct, all these articles were part of a final project for an English class. Drmies, I agree that Wikiversity might be an appropriate home for all the individual texts, other than userfying the content I think it is the only possible home among the various Wikimedia projects (in my opinion none of the article's subjects are notable enough to survive any type of WP notability review). I am unsure, though, as to who to contact about these FWP articles at Wikiversity or even how to contact an administrator/coordinator at that project, am hoping that someone here (like an admin-type?) could initiate some sort of contact with the instructor before we move or userfy any of the articles. Also, if we are considering the idea that all this content should perhaps be moved to Wikiversity, then that would have to probably be approved by someone on that side of the fence....I don't want to be perceived as just shoving things over the transom and hope they land without breaking...
Would it be possible to put some sort of pre-emptive notice on all these articles now that they are all part of a class assignment, maybe something from Wikipedia:School and university projects? I'd like to keep the possible oncoming CSD/PRODs at bay until the instructor can be contacted. The work that these students did is actually quite good technically, some of these contributors would probably be an asset to WP, it's just a shame that the subjects they chose seem to be so non-notable. --Shearonink (talk) 21:41, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

• I think he was saying Lady (above) is the best authority on what to do, and she has already unproded some. I agree that we want to find a way to satisfy the needs of Wikipedia while being sensitive to the budding authors. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:51, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

• I'm not any special authority on this stuff. I like the idea of transwikiing(?) the articles to someplace like Wikiversity. (Maybe is there a North Carolina wiki [a separate wiki, not the NC WikiProject] that might want them?) Has anyone (Drmies?) actually made contact with the professor of the class. We don't want to step on each others' toes here. LadyofShalott 03:14, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• Well, there is NCpedia.org. It is run by the State Library. It is not an open wiki (you have to contact their admins to suggest a topic, write an article or whatever), but the bar for notability is much more subjective and they don't always have the developed article guidelines (such as verifiability, etc.) that we have here. It could be something that they might be interested in. They could even do a whole project there about FWP. Just a thought. I've not ever written anything there, although I've thought about it. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 01:18, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

• JohnRobinson94 just posted the instructor's WP nick on his talkpage, only edit was to the WP Sandbox but it's a start. I agree with Lady, I'm being hands-off with contact, any contact needs to be somehow coordinated so the message doesn't get muddled. Actually, I do not quite feel comfortable contacting the instructor myself - might be more appropriate for an admin to do it. These students put so much work into their articles I am hopeful that the content can be salvaged somewhere in the Wiki-verse. I don't even know if there are admins on Wikiversity or not or who to contact about this over there, but agree that Wikiversity is probably the most fitting home for this FWP/NC content. Shearonink (talk) 21:49, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Arbitrary break

Any movement on this? A few of the articles have been PRODed. I have added a welcome message to the professor's talk page, but probably needs someone (admin, ambassador, etc.) to coordinate this better than I would, I think. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 16:00, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• I think a few of the editors have been contacted but no replies. I think much of the effort was just to delay long enough for them to get their grade, but no one in that project has contacted anyone that I am aware of, and no one has been willing to email the professor. At this point, the normal editing process takes over, as we have done what we can, and more than many would have done. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:04, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• I was thinking it would be inappropriate for someone other than an administrator to email the professor, but am doing so now....just to give her a heads-up that all/much/most of the content is now starting to be dealt with for non-notability. Shearonink (talk) 17:06, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

NOTE:I just realized I can't do the email...my WP email account is messed-up at the moment...can someone else PLEASE send a note to the teacher about these articles being PROD'ed for non-notability? Right now I am manually going through the list of active Wikiversity Custodians to see which of them are also active on WP and then leaving a message + linkage on their WP talkpage/s to this discussion. (There's probably some easier way to do some kind of sorting on this stuff but I don't know how.) Shearonink (talk) 17:19, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

NOTE:I have left asking-for-help posts on the talkpages of 8 Wikiversity Custodians who have also been active on WP within the past few months...maybe one of them can tell us if Wikiversity can house these articles or not. Shearonink (talk) 17:52, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

After a quick look I would say that these sound like they are within the scope of Wikiversity, although they will likely require some modification to be made useful there. I'll bring this to the attention of the community in our discussion forum. We have similar learning resources that were done as classwork such as v:The_Crafting_Freedom_Project. As an admin at en-wv I can transwiki copy any pages in danger of being deleted. Please use {{Copy_to_Wikiversity}} to identify articles outside the scope of wp that are part of this project. I would suggest that you hold off on taking any action for about two weeks to given the instructor and students time to finish and evaluate the work for grades, so that this good faith effort is not unduly disrupted by a simple misunderstanding of wp guidelines. If the instructor's assignments are generally outside of the scope here, we would be happy to help set something up at wv to accommodate future class work. --mikeu ^talk 19:21, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• I suggest others remove PROD tags, add this tag, and just point anyone with concerns to this discussion. Mu301, if you can contact the instructor, that would be swell. I am not familiar enough with protocol to do so and prefer someone more experienced handle this delicate situation. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:24, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

It is likely that the instructor and students are very close to final exams right now so they are probably very busy and perhaps a bit stressed. So I'm not surprised or alarmed that we haven't had an immediate response. I would be happy to contact the instructor; has anyone identified the person who is running the class? It would be a shame if potential valuable contributions to WP:SUP or v:Wikiversity:School and university projects were discouraged by a hasty decision. IMHO, the long term benefits to WMF outweigh any harm that the presence of these articles might cause in the short term. (Unless, of course, if there are BLP or other similarly urgent issues.) After all, education outreach is a priority WMF initiative. --mikeu ^talk 20:01, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I believe the instructor was identified here [1] Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:04, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I'll followup on this. FYI, I also cross posted to Wikipedia:Education_noticeboard#Chapel_Hill_and_Federal_Writers_Project. --mikeu ^talk 20:41, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I didn't know I was in charge of anything here. ;) I see that there's a note on JohnRobinson's talk, don't know why I was thinking that someone from them would get in touch with us. I'll leave another note and will be back. Drmies (talk) 01:07, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

OK, see User talk:Cjr100B. I will send them an email as well though, I might add, as an admin I don't have any special discretion here; anyone can do it. But I'll be glad to. Now, let me vent for a moment: [xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]. I feel much better now. Thanks to all here--let's wait for the instructor to show up here and we'll take if from there. I gather from Mu301's comments that Wikiversity is a good option; Mike, I hope you'll stick around to see what happens. Drmies (talk) 01:17, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

The primary reason I hoped you would be in the loop was due to your occupation and ability to empathize and understand the instructor's motivations and methods, as well as your tremendous experience here. Admin bit wasn't really a factor. Not being an academic, I fear I would have been stumbling in the dark, and deeply out of my element. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:26, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Question regarding edit filter

I've been poking around, and haven't found an answer, so I figured I'd see if you knew. Is there a way to correct a false positive from the edit filter that preserves attribution? Monty₈₄₅ 21:58, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

• Very good question. I never mess with the edit filter, never even gave myself the bit to do so. It is something I've always needed to get familiar with since I have a little real life experience with that, but not here. Sorry. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:02, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Oh well, thanks for the quick response. Trying VPT. Monty₈₄₅ 22:12, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

50s

saw your Mally posts. I have some stuff in sandbox and some moved out over the years in NASCAR. User:Ched/To Do I'll try to get back to after 1st of the year. You're welcome to move or use anything. Also, I have a book: NASCAR, A Fast History by Greg Fielden that may have a thing or two if you want to expand that particular section in the future. (lots of other NASCAR stuff too). If there's anything I can do to help - let me know. Best always. — Ched :  ?  02:45, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

• Jump in. The primary focus of this article is culture surrounding the era, but I also have other articles of the era I'm working on as well. Actually, I'm not a NASCAR fan per see (I do like motorsports and the old NASCAR when they were stock), but I can see a fresh article on the roots of NASCAR that covers the 50s, or just "the early years" through the early 70s as being a viable article, that covers everything in depth. There is a lot of interesting history that would be too much for the general article but is worth covering for the history aspect. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 06:50, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Charlotte Moore

Hi Dennis. As way of courtesy notification, since you were the nominator at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charlotte Moore, I wanted to let you know that I've resurrected this article, with sourcing improvements that I believe address the concerns expressed at the AfD. Certainly let me know if you have any concerns. Regards, Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:41, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

• The new sourcing is better. You must have done some pretty good digging, as I remember it being very difficult to find any information of any kind. Per the discussion at AFD, if this version had been nominated, it would have survived as a keep, so I have no complaints about the current version. I appreciate the heads up. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 07:04, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

HighBeam

Hi Dennis; do you have a HighBeam account? Keri (talk) 15:10, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

• No, unfortunately I don't. I don't work in academia, so I don't have access to getting one on the cheap either. :/ Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:25, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

• OK, I will email you some articles. Keri (talk) 15:42, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

FYI: free, full-access, 1-year HighBeam Research account application at WP:HighBeam/Applications. Mojoworker (talk) 19:59, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Never mind, I see you already added your name to the latest round. Mojoworker (talk) 00:10, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I thought I had, just hadn't checked. Here lately, I've been spending all my lunch money and allowance on actual dead tree books for a series of articles I'm working on, centered around automobiles and American culture. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:13, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

spa tag

I left a note at User talk:Bbb23#spa, but before I nominate it for deletion, I'm curious as to what you think about it. Care to offer an opinion? Ryan Vesey 15:41, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

•  Done Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 18:01, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Editor review

I've started an editor review on myself at Wikipedia:Editor review/Ritchie333. As you seem to give good constructive feedback in editor reviews, your feedback would be appreciated. --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:31, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Oops

Sorry about that. I hit rollback by mistake while stalking your cool automobile sandbox draft. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:11, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

• Malleus may come bop you on the head like Little Bunny Foo Foo, so put your helmet on ;) I had already seen that, and quickly concluded it was an innocent mistake. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:14, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

  I already did. Malleus Fatuorum 19:17, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

  If you post any faster, you're going to travel backward in time. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:18, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

  I'll let you know yesterday about that. Malleus Fatuorum 19:21, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I'll tell you last week that there is no need. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:28, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Why it happens: I've been watching you build User:Dennis Brown/Articles/1950's American automobile culture for some time, so it's on my watchlist. When my watchlist loads, it does a sudden line jump after a pause, which, if at the right moment, causes me to click the wrong line. It happens once every several months if I'm not careful. A thousand pardons to you both. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:28, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

The "line jump" thing Anna describes has been going on for at least several years now, and in my case, it happens every time I load my watchlist. The entire list, starting with the first entry will move down. A bad rollback can occur when you try to click a link before the watchlist stops loading, which results in the focus of your mouse click or touch tap missing the link and clicking a rollback instead. It would be helpful to find out if this has already been reported as a bug. Viriditas (talk) 20:17, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

""I'm guessing it relates to Twinkle, which positions the functions differently, and loads last. Just a guess though. I've done the same more than once. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:55, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

There might have been some sort of general problem. I lost my nav bar completely for a period of time yesterday. Gtwfan52 (talk) 03:56, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

No, that nav bar thing was different, that was all Writ Keeper's fault. But please don't tell him I said that. The jumping is totally Twinkle, and it bugs the **** out of me. All the geeks are going to correct me, but Twinkle must take some loading after the real shit is already loaded, and then it goes, "oh yeah, me too fatass, so move over a half an inch. Oh, you were too fast. Sucks being you." But I've prevented one future set of occurrences by removing Anna Frodesiak's rollback. Drmies (talk) 07:06, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Drmies, you're going to smoke a turd in purgatory, you know what right? Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 11:54, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

That beats swimming in shit in the Inferno. (Though flattery is probably not the biggest of my sins.) Drmies (talk) 15:47, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Dennis Brown. You have new messages at User_talk:Guðsþegn/Academy.
Message added 19:11, 4 December 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Get your thoughts on a Wikipedia Service Academy to coordinate admin prep. Guðsþegn (talk) 19:11, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

You might wanna make yourself aware of...

This, this and this. Sadly, I can no longer be part of the project with this user here. Statυs (talk) 03:25, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

• Looking at my talk page history, it appears it has been handled in part. I don't want to see anyone leave Wikipedia, I just want to see the lot of you playing in different corners. We all need a break every now and then, but it doesn't need to be forever. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:47, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Friendly review of NAC AfD closure

Since I got bitten the last time I NACed a AfD closure, could you please review Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sagi Haviv and give your thoughts? Thanks Hasteur (talk) 15:35, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

• No consensus seems the right answer, considering the responses (and weakness thereof). The closing phrase "No prejudice to speedy re-nomination pending a more reasoned nomination rationalle"(sic) might be taken the wrong way, ie: that the nomination wasn't reasonable, although I don't think that is what you meant. Some people get defensive when you end up keeping an article they nominated, so wording is important. Often times, less is more. But that is just an observation, not a "problem" per se. Per consensus, people can always instantly renom a no-consensus close even using the same rationale, so a forward looking statement isn't needed. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
  • I was trying to suggest that a speedy re-nominaton should include improvements to strengthen the position of the deletion argument. Thank you for looking over it. Hasteur (talk) 16:07, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
    • I trust your faith, just saying some times things get misunderstood. You know how some people are. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:11, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Help

Dennis, quite some time ago, you advised me on how to change my interface so I have special options at the top right of user pages for User and Page history. Since the problems with the UI in the last few days, I've been having problems with that portion of my screen. At first, part of the word "User" and part of the word "Page" were missing. Now, it's even worse as everything except the down arrows themselves is missing (to the right of TW). I can't even remember whether it was a script you pointed me to or something else. I've tried (twice) purging all of my cache (in Firefox), but it doesn't help. I've gotten rid of the worst of the UI problems, which most everyone seemed to experience, but not this one part. Are you experiencing this? Any suggestions on what to do? I've posted at the Pump, but no one has come up with a solution that I'm aware of (the threads go on and on). Thanks much.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:19, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

• I think I had you install twinkle. Try going to [2], disable Twinkle. Clear your cache, close browser, come back, go there again and re-enable Twinkle. If that doesn't work, then you need to comment out everything in vector.js, reclear cache, then see how it is, and re-enable one at a time, refreshing (F5) each time. Likely it is still just a cache issue, but all this thrashing should clear it up. If not, ping me again. I'm not an expert on this, but will do what I can, and likely, a talk page stalker will jump in with a better answer if these don't work. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 17:26, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

• I know it wasn't installing Twinkle because I used Twinkle well before I became an admin. It's possible that something in my Twinkle preferences changed my UI, so I did try the steps you noted above re Twinkle. Disabling Twinkle removed the TW tab, but everything else was still messed up, so I doubt it has anything to do with Twinkle. I've looked at my list of scripts, but I'm not sure what each one does. I wish I had commented them when I installed them, but too late for that. I haven't tried removing any yet. I may try simply disabling them all just for grins, but I haven't done that yet.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:35, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

• I disabled all my scripts, but it didn't help. I'm worn out and am going to give up for the moment anyway.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:00, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

• I finally figured it out. It's a gadget: "Add page and user options to drop-down menus on the toolbar." Unfortunately, although I now know what's not working right, and I can't fix it. I unchecked the gadget. I cleared my cache (again), closed Firefox, reopened Firefox, and rechecked the gadget. No joy.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

• You have a hard time with computers. ;-) Try Internet Exploder and/or Chrome as a reference. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:34, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

• Ha, at least I'm not the only one with challenges. Drmies (talk) 01:45, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• Dennis, did you intentionally call it Internet Exploder rather than Internet Explorer? Go Phightins! 01:47, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• Yes I did. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:53, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• I thought it was a pretty humorous typo, but it turns out it wasn't a typo at all. I agree that Internet Explorer sucks. Go Phightins! 01:58, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

I see...... Personally, I use Firefox, with Chrome as backup. Thekillerpenguin (talk) 02:01, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

You whippersnappers think you have this technology thing over us old farts. Anyone that doesn't remember how revolutionary ZMODEM was, or know what dropping to door is, get off my lawn ;-) I should actually work on some of those articles, but sources are hard to come by. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:23, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Easy, Dennis. I don't even own a cellular device. Go Phightins! 02:28, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

hehe, and I don't have a land line. Actually, being 48 is a good age, getting to watch all this stuff develop over the years. The first IBM PC hit the market as I entered the 11th grade, and it has been a fun ride ever since. Lots of this early stuff isn't documented very well, however. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:35, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

My dad isn't that much older than you, but his technological "adeptness" can be expressed on a scale of one to ten as 1.0 x 10^-200. Go Phightins! 02:39, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• Most people my age are that way, honestly. I was never a wiz kid, but I've worked with Linux for 15 years, and computers in general for 30. I'm a bit of an oddity, particularly since I didn't go to college to study them. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:47, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, my dad's only formalized computer training, I suppose, would be a typing class he took his senior year of high school so he knew where the different keys on a typewriter were when he was typing papers for college. Go Phightins! 02:50, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
    • Not sure why the last edit was marked as minor...maybe my track pad was being annoying and I didn't notice I clicked that on my way to the save page button. Go Phightins! 02:51, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
    • I took the same class. IBM Selectric typewriters with blank keys and chart on the wall so you had to learn. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:52, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
      • The only typing instruction I had was in fourth or fifth grade using plastic orange covers to put over the keys; never ceased to amaze me how many people couldn't memorize it especially since most had been texting since first or second grade, but I digress. Go Phightins! 03:18, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
        • I'm the same type of oddity as you, Dennis, regarding working with computers despite never having studied them. Well, in my case "working" is a rather loose term nowadays but it's still my job when the work is there. My first computer was home-built: etched my own circuit board, and used an Intel 8080A with its separate DMA chip etc + DIP switches rather than a keypad. Those were the days.

          I had (still have) a friend who was in the upholstery game. By that point, I was programming in various languages using a keyboard stripped from a Wyse 100. He made me a programmer's hammer: a whopping big cut-out from seating foam that I could bash the screen with when I cocked things up. It got some heavy use!

          Did ya ever hack into a BASIC interpreter? The sort that came on cassette tape, so for example in BASIC one could change the "syntax error" message to read "stupid error" (same number of bytes)? - Sitush (talk) 07:49, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

          • I was more into networking them, optimizing, BBSes, then apache, bind, mail and other linux services, and of course using them to the fullest extent. Back in the day, it was possible to fully saturate a system, but now the OS gets in the way. I was more into pushing limits than programming, although I do dabble with Perl a fair amount. I still do a fair amount of html, mainly by hand, even moderately complex code. I like getting my hands dirty that way. Like I do all things in life, I learned a fair amount about it all, and never mastered any of it. At my core, I'm a generalist, a jack of all trades, master of none. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:38, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
          • Very nice. Never did that. The closest thing I ever did...well, remember when Windows was an application, you would go into Windows, and when you wanted to leave, you clicked on an icon labeled Exit Windows? I changed it so it read Defenestrate.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 23:01, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

WER

Hey Dennis, if/when you have a moment could you please take a look at the last couple of days of interactions involving JanetteDoe ? They've been AWOL since 15 September and I'm damn sure that is because they took a bit of a battering from an admin. I'm not asking you to step in there and say one side or the other were in the right, merely perhaps to review and post a message on their talk as you see fit. JD was unbelievably helpful behind the scenes and did a fair bit of much-appreciated work on articles and their talk pages also. Be a shame if they do not return, although I suspect we may be too late to reverse it. - Sitush (talk) 07:32, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• Unfortunately, they don't have email enabled :/ This limits us greatly. I've added a note on their talk page. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:12, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, I'm trying to find that but it probably would not be appropriate to use it. I'm sure they've emailed me at some point because of WP:RX stuff, and I'm sure that I've emailed them. But if they've chosen to disable the feature then it would probably not be right to use the address now even if I found it.

  The disagreement between the two was six of one and half-a-dozen of the other and for that reason I rather sat on the fence at the time. But JD felt it badly when Orlady was firm. It could have been better handled by me and by Orlady: I should have got involved a bit more in smoothing the waters and Orlady, as an admin, might perhaps have suggested escalating the issue to a noticeboard such as WP:RSN. I've overegged the pudding in criticising Orlady on JD's page: that is deliberate & I'm hoping that Orlady can take it on the chin: get JD talking again and things can soon be resolved. JD was a phenomenal sourcer of material from libraries etc, rather like Shrike - we really do need people who have access and are prepared to fill that niche. - Sitush (talk) 14:23, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• Most of my editor retention work never gets mentioned at WER, but I have learned that you have to accept that often, there is little you can do when you can't contact them. Often times, it is a simple pleasure for the casual editor, and once they have a bad taste, they just move on to other simple pleasures and have no interest in Wikipedia, so they never see the notes. This is why you have to be careful taking sides, as no amount of sweet words will change that. We are most effective helping hard core editors adjust with mentoring and mediation. But we try, and this is why we try to get involved with new editors as well, "guardian angels" in a way, to simple jump in on their first dispute and help teach them the methods of resolving it, so they don't feel powerless. It is more about teaching them to fish rather than handing them one. Editor Retention will always be a hit and miss affair, we can't save them all, but we should always try. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:32, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• Ok, noted thanks. I didn't particularly take sides at the time - I could see both - but perhaps my words today have bust that one, even though (analogising fish again!) the intent was to dangle a bit of bait and reel it in. Which is not the same as WP:BAIT. I'll take my punishment from Orlady. - Sitush (talk) 14:40, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• I'm disturbed to think that my interactions with JanetteDoe may have had the totally unintended effect of driving this user away. I engaged with this user when I was perplexed to see that reference citations to works published before Wikipedia existed had been deleted from articles on the grounds that the cited source was a Wikipedia mirror (a logical impossibility for a source that pre-existed Wikipedia -- it is impossible to have copied from Wikipedia before there was a Wikipedia). I was hoping for specific discussion of the sources that had been deleted (particularly desirable considering that the cited content remained after the citations were removed), which didn't happen. Unfortunately, the user's curt responses to me weren't effective at communicating the substance of the concerns, particularly at first. Considering the tone of the user's statements to me and about me, I'm rather surprised at the suggestion that the user took personal offense at my comments. I sincerely hope there is some other reason for this user's absence and that I was not personally responsible for driving them away. I hope JanetteDoe will return. --Orlady (talk) 21:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• Orlady, I think that there were misunderstandings all round. It's just one of those things. One aspect that was not fully conveyed is that Gyan is more than just a mirror: they plagiarise both other publishers and their own authors. One of the many examples that I have found can be seen by comparing

• Pandey, Aditya (2005). South Asia: Polity, Literacy and Conflict Resolution. Gyan Publishing House. p. 181. ISBN 988182053038. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help)

with

• Jaffrelot, Christophe (2003). India's Silent Revolution: The Rise of the Lower Castes in North India (Reprinted ed.). C. Hurst & Co. p. 189. ISBN 9781850653981.

I should have done more at the time to mediate the situation, given that I'm more familiar with the issues. Still, I've got my own problems now! - Sitush (talk) 22:01, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• One of the first "rules" I created when I established WP:Wikiproject Editor Retention is that we don't point fingers. Sometimes, someone may to be blame. Other times, an editors interaction simply hastened an inevitable departure. Other times, it was either unrelated, or the person got their ego bruised and is too embarrassed to come back using the same name. We all make mistakes. I've said things that caused people to leave for a while (I know of two cases, but they came back). Editor Retention isn't an absolute and the Project isn't about curing all the ills. It is about identifying situation we can help in, and making Wikipedia more user friendly for everyone. And we all make mistakes. As to any culpability here, I have no idea and I'm not inclined to try to lay blame as that solves nothing. Some simply can't handle the rough and tumble atmosphere here. The key is making the overall environment less rough and tumble with easier dispute resolution. This often means getting independent people involved early and keeping problems off the boards when it comes to newish users. That is what the volunteers do at WER. If you ever feel a situation is spiraling, just drop at note on the talk page at WER and someone will show up very quickly to help the new users and act as a mediator if needed. In other words, we do better if we help each other. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:06, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah. It is easier said than done because often the spiral is not spotted until it has already become a maelstrom. In this instance I didn't really think that it was spiralling. I was/am familiar with both and knew them to be level-headed etc, so kind of assumed something. Obviously, all of my analysis here is dependent on another assumption: that JD's cessation of contributions is related to the incident. It may not be but it is one heck of a coincidence. FWIW, I've been having an issue with an IP at Talk:List of Reddys today and have specifically said that a third opinion might be the best option. I know what the outcome will be but, although some seem unwilling to recognise it, I do actually try to help people out etc. (Rayabhari is one recent example of that and is doing very nicely now). If you fancy stopping by that list talk page then feel free. - Sitush (talk) 00:16, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

SPI help

Hey Dennis, would you be so kind as to lend me a hand? I've just blocked everyone on St Marys Church, Clophill indefinitely. One user, Gwenlen (talk · contribs), can be linked to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Filmfan1964 (via Bradswanson2010). The other three, Logistics Speaker (talk · contribs), Logistics Speakers (talk · contribs), and Resident Stan (talk · contribs), are one and the same (duck-wise). I don't know what to add Gwenlen to, or what to do with the other three; I guess I'm also interested in CU checking for sleepers. I appreciate your help. Drmies (talk) 20:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

•  Done I started a new case, really for the archive only, at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Filmfan1964 for Gwenlen. Of the three remaining, I filed Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Logistics Speaker because Speaker (singular) had edited before the other two, so the oldest, thus the "master". For this one, I asked a CU to check for sleepers.Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 21:52, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Nit police

I usually ignore typos on talk pages (mainly because I have so many myself) but I saw "complimentary" on Mf's page when you meant complementary, and I thought it would be nice to catch it before he sees it. Plus I'm jealous that you are working together on such a fun article. Nice work. (I wouldn't have pegged you as a Michelob man).--SPhilbrick(Talk) 22:55, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

"Before he sees it and takes the piss" is I guess what you meant to say. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 23:01, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't peg anyone, certainly not Dennis, with or without a Michelob bottle. Drmies (talk) 17:25, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

• (edit conflict)Michelob Ultra, to be exact, although I love any Michelob if I have to drink off the shelf bottles. Scotch doesn't go well with Chinese food. I'm a low carb guy, can't eat flour or sugar due to blood sugar issues that disappear if I do an Atkins diet. And Malleus is quite used to correcting my bad grammar and spelling. If I wrote two paragraphs that were perfect, he would suspect my account had been compromised. Feel free to just correct any mistakes I make without permission, btw. I even state this on my user page. I am fully capable of complex thought, I just have bad spelling and grammar, one of the downsides of being an autodidact. And yes, I'm very happy Malleus decided to help me after I begged and pleaded for his help. This is the first article that he and I have teamed up on, and I have learned a great deal. To be honest, I already knew he had a weak spot for old automobiles, which was part of the reason I chose this subject, knowing it would be a little easier for me to steal some of his precious time if it was a topic he fancied. ;) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:09, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

So now I am scratching my bloody head due to your bloody header, I hope your happy. Darkness Shines (talk) 23:19, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

The Atkins diet would probably kill me. LOL! No....seriously though.....--Amadscientist (talk) 09:31, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

My fasting blood sugar went from 116 to 92 (120 is pretty muc the start of diabetes), the lowest it has been in well over a decade. That and losing 40 pounds. I still want to lose another 20. Not sure how it could kill you, I eat lots of good leafy veggies and quality whole meats. My cholesterol is only a light high, but it was higher when I ate carbs. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 12:36, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

User:Snakehands

You blocked this user recently for BLP violations on Diane Abbott. Your one day block probably went unnoticed, as they have returned and are continuing in the same vein. Time for an indef? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 17:42, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

• Exact same behavior, so I've given a final warning. Since I made the last block, it would be better if another admin made this next block if needed, but it shouldn't be hard to find volunteers since it is well documented. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 17:58, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, I just ended up blocking him. I don't think there is any controversy about it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:33, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Can you take a look at an editor?

Nothing here has been beyond the pale, but can you take a look at the actions of Doncram at Talk:List of Methodist churches#Red links in See Also? He's edit warring to include red links in the see also section, and some serious ownership issues are evident. He's referring to any edits or editors who he doesn't like (mostly Orlady) as being only involved in "disruption, and hatred". There's some battlefieldish behavior at the deletion discussion for the article. And here, he referred to Nyttend as an "idiotic non-person" in an edit summary. Ryan Vesey 01:31, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

• Thank you for giving me a headache. Reading all of that was an ordeal, to say the least. I've never seen so much wriggling around and politicking with terms in my entire life. I'm sad to say, I'm not sure what to do here. He has climbed his hill and will defend it to the death it seems. I can't even figure out exactly what he is defending, I just know who he is defending it against, and it would appear the list is growing as he is pissing everyone off. What little experience I have with him has been that if an admin comes in and tries to talk reason, it will immediately be turned around and taken as taking the other side, and cause more drama. I would have to think about it. Tokyogirl seems to have had the best luck reasoning over there, she may be a valuable voice in the discussion, although she is loathe to get in the middle of a pissing match. I'm not quite sure he needs a "shot across the bow" warning yet, or if that would even help. History has shown that he either calms down on his own, or gets blocked. Again, I'm not sure what the best action is here, and would have to think on it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:54, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

He was raised at ANI for another issue so I added the concerns there to the discussion. The edit warring continued on his part. I'm hoping a one revert restriction and a mentor will help him. Ryan Vesey 23:24, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Identifying talk page material from socks?

Hi Dennis (or any talk page stalkers), I was wondering if anything should be done on the Talk:Art Pope page (and an on-going RfC) to clarify what was going on. Most of that talk page is me discussing with those two accounts (and yeah, I feel pretty dumb now for spending so much time trying to discuss and not requesting an SPI sooner). Would it make sense to put a small note at the top of the page about it, or what's the standard procedure here? Thanks, a13ean (talk) 03:43, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

• Typically, you can strike the messages of the sock, but not the master, unless that master is indef blocked. Here is an example:

<s>'''Support''' Because I can. [[User:Mr. Sock|Mr. Sock]] </s> <small>Blocked sock. ~~~~</small>

Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 03:48, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thanks! (PS: I think User:Triplicatio might have ended up with the wrong template). Cheers, a13ean (talk) 03:51, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

No, he gets a different template because he is the "master" (oldest account). The others are socks, he is the master. ie: he is real, they are fake (not really individuals). This is why you keep his comments, and strike theirs. CU found him Likely to Confirmed as abusing multiple accounts, ie: the socks. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 03:54, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Er sorry -- I was just wondering because the user page says he was indeffed, while the log and his talk page says two weeks. a13ean (talk) 03:56, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, details help ;) Thank you. Fixed. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 03:58, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Point to Ponder

Hello Dennis, I'm not sure if you would read my reply on my 'talk' page, so I;m posting it here as well. Hope this is okay. As you can see, I'm not that Wiki-knowledgeable, apart from article-writing, which is probably why I get into trouble for doing all sorts of things I'm not supposed to :)

Thanks for your kind words, Dennis. However, the SPI interested me not at all. I know I'm me, so that's that. No, what has caused me to leave Wikipedia is that I feel I have been bullied, there has also been attempted manipulation and threats of mass deletion of all the articles I created. Is this Wiki policy? I think not. I'm sorry, but I am not prepared to accept that. Life' too short, I don't need it. These were Sudo's parting words to me, relating to the letter above : Considering the attitude you've had with me and several other editors, I'm sorry but I'm not even going to read this. Treat people like crap and you'll be ignored, because believe it or not, people don't want to be treated like crap, no matter how "humor'' (there it broke off). It took me a long time to write that letter - I wanted to try to explain my position. I wonder what Jimbo would think of that response? Not much, I'll warrant. I, too, have been here 6 years (or maybe 8, memory fails with age :)). Anyway, I just came back to thank you for your thoughtful post. Best, Andrea AndreaUKA (talk) 13:56, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Laugh of the day

This one did make me chuckle. Hope you're good. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 16:28, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

• You should feel free to block them through the weekend ;-). That is a school kid up to no good. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 17:07, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	For sifting through 24 sockpuppets to pick out the handful still in need of blocking. Next time I'll only add the worst offenders. — Francophonie&Androphilie(Je vous invite à me parler) 23:29, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

• No problem, and thanks :) It was quite a swim. Sometimes, you have no choice but list them all, I understand. Hopefully that will calm it down a bit. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 03:14, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Triple Crown

Hi, want to go for the Triple Crown? Passat Ltd. Logical Cowboy (talk) 04:13, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks so much for all your help on this. Do you think there is a behavioral similarity between Castle and WP:Sockpuppet_investigations/Bamanh27? Seems like two peas in a pod to me. Logical Cowboy (talk) 13:54, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Many paid socks are because they use the exact same methods, which makes it easier for us to spot them as they stick out in a crowd. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:24, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Guitar

Spun around for 390 feet from impact at 65+mph, it stopped after tipping but not rolling. The wife has taken emergency driving training, it paid off. Could have been worse.

This is cool! So is this LOL!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 18:08, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• Very cool jam session version of the Sultans of Swing. Again, your timing couldn't be better. The wife just called: someone merging on the interstate at 70mph/113kph spun out out control, slammed into the front end of her pickup truck, sent the truck spinning several revolutions on the rainy highway at full speed, knocking her into a ditch and almost rolled the truck. She is fine, fortunately. The truck which is older but (was) in near-new condition isn't driveable, and had to be towed. So I'm a bit shaken up by it, although obviously not as much as she is. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:22, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• Ouch, that is nasty. She'll probably end up being a bit more shaken up than is apparent straight after the event. I'm not quite sure if "She is fine, fortunately. The truck which is older ..." means that you have a very young wife or a very old truck but, either way, if it was me then I forget about WP for the rest of the day. Best wishes to you both. - Sitush (talk) 00:09, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• Well, the wife and I aren't new models, that is certain. ;) The truck is a 2005 Chevy 2500HD with only 60k miles and we kept it in perfect shape since buying it new. The other lady's insurance will cover it, but still. Once you know the wife is perfectly fine, then you get frustrated because they messed up a perfect pickup. Most "repaired" vehicles aren't the same after a wreck like this. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:20, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Wow! Glad she's ok!! (✉→BWilkins←✎) 13:48, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. She was a little stiff this morning but not too bad, going to keep an eye out, sometimes you never know and problems don't show up for a day or two, but we are pretty sure she is fine. Fortunately, the truck slid to a relatively gentle stop and tipping since it was so wet. She experienced a lot of movement but not much in sudden impact. Like the old expression says, "No one ever died falling off a building. It's the sudden stop at the end that gets you." Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:52, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Glad all is OK. Cherish your Christmas present---your wife by your side. ```Buster Seven Talk 14:25, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I do and have for over 7000 days now. We are an oddity nowadays. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:07, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Glad to hear she's okay. Are there any little ones (or slightly bigger ones) celebrating Christmas with you? Ryan Vesey 00:21, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, one is 18 pounds, the other is 28 pounds. Both have cold noses. I'm still paying off the student loans for obedience school. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:28, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Doncram at ANI

It looks like your proposal to sanction Doncram for personal attacks is going to fail. Given the state of things, I fully expect to be back at ANI before long; I've given Doncram a final warning for personal attacks, and a single additional incident that I find will result in my requesting that he be long-term blocked. Since the community appears to be excusing his attacks on me and his driving off Dudemanfellabra by blaming Sitush, we may need to go to Arbcom. Nyttend (talk) 20:37, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Assuming sanctions fail at ANI, would the next step be an RFC/U after Doncram's behavior continues? It's a sad case, because he's an extremely productive user operating outside of Wikipedia norms due to (for the most part) what seems to be a communication issue. Ryan Vesey 22:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• If we must. The incivility doesn't bother me so much, but the tenacious editing and battlefield mentality does. It is an editor retention issue, as that kind of crap runs off editors. As for the apologists, everyone is free to form their own opinions I suppose, although they do seems to quick to ignore and rationale the behavior. And he has already had an RFCU that failed, so Arb is the next logical step. Ignoring it isn't an option. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:28, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
• I can't help but think Arbcom is the only logical course. I would support that.--Amadscientist (talk) 22:46, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
• If I remember correctly, the only RFC/U about Doncram was attempted nearly 3 years ago. It failed to get traction because it was very narrowly framed. Most of the complex and acrimonious wars that Doncram gets involved with are about extremely trivial matters, such as whether he should be allowed to include redlinks in the "See also" section of an article, or whether Poquetanuck, Connecticut should be treated as a place or as a historic district, or whether the fact that a property is listed in the National Register database justifies the creation of a stub article with text that reads something like "The Jones House is or was a house in Anytown, Pennsylvania, that was built or has other significance in 1857", or whether a historic district with buildings built over he span of a century can be included in a category for architecture of particular year. Individually, none of these "issues" ought to be worth more than a paragraph of talk-page discussion, much less an RFC/U, but some of them have led to multiple megabytes of acrimonious talk-page interaction (partly because the issue typically relates to at least a dozen articles, and in some cases hundreds of articles) and the departure of editors. It may be worthwhile to attempt another RFC/U, but it needs to be broadly scoped to address the entire pattern of behaviors and not merely the most recent squabbles. --Orlady (talk) 00:21, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• I recall some palaver about "built or has significance" etc. I was reminded of it when I saw "This list includes, with documentation, notable OBCs that have been identified at one time or another." and some equally anodyne (?) phrases. - Sitush (talk) 00:38, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I've had dealings with Doncram on a fairly regular basis over the past five years or so. On the one hand, he is a tireless creator of stubs, disambiguation pages, and supporting or linked articles. He created much of the basis for the present WP:NRHP project. On the other hand, he has a way of personalizing disputes, and in lieu of thorough research he will default to language like "is or was associated with on or about 1857" that is better suited to a deposition than an encyclopedia. I tried to mediate the Poquetanuck business over a six-month period and made some headway, but it was excruciating, given Doncram's tendency to slice content into as many distinct articles as possible and to write walls of text to defend them. On a number of occasions I've merged material that should never have been divided into multiple articles, or found content forks that referred to the same subject under Doncram's preferred naming hierarchy. On other occasions I've run interference for him, declining speedy deletion noms that could have been avoided with a little more content and sourcing to indicate compliance with the GNG, then fixing it myself.

Since the Poquetanuck business I haven't been actively worked in the Doncram mediation arena, having used up my store of patience. I am very reluctant to see him blocked, as has happened in the past: he has done much good and I believe he has WP's best interest at heart, but experience has shown that he will not hesitate to dehumanize editors who don't share his particular editing philosophy. Cbl62 helped out Doncram as a kind of mentor for a while with positive results, but it's a full-time job. The quotes referring to Nyttend and Orlady (and others in times past involving Sarek) simply can't be justified, and it creates a toxic editing environment that has affected Elkman and Dudemanfellabra most notably.

Wading into Indian castes with this style of editing seems like a recipe for disaster. It's a horrible minefield for experts, and while I don't know if Doncram has any personal experience in the area, a continuation of the approach he's used on NRHP topics is asking for trouble.

Unfortunately, I don't have a solution: if Doncram, for instance, removes discussion from Orlady (as he has done previously, interpreting disagreement as an attack) on any page but his own talkpage, I'll block him myself, but I don't see that as a cure for the root of the problem. Acroterion (talk) 19:29, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

@Acroterian. I'm not attempting to own the subject area here: I am aware that others will agree with me. I've already told Doncram that I am not prepared to engage in a running battle across thousands of caste article talk pages when the fundamental point will be identical in most cases. I described that proposal of his as "divide and rule". If he should resume doing that, I'll be going straight back to ANI. I'll also be going straight back there if he starts creating misleading dabs or inserting redlinks and unsourced statements: the caste sphere makes NRHP look like a walk in the park, both in terms of relative complexity and size. I mean, they cannot even agree on spellings of any one name, let alone which name is used consistently.

I'd much prefer it if he dipped his toe in by fettling a few small articles first, but I am already aware that he is not really an article builder (cf: stub creator) and his interests lies in creating list after list after list, all intricately woven but (I suspect) largely unloved. I'm afraid that he is going to learn the hard way and, yes, that may well include death threats & other off-wiki harassment etc such as I have had. Neither ANI nor any other part of WP can protect him from those. - Sitush (talk) 21:58, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't think you are trying to own the subject, and going by my experience, NRHP is a walk in the park compared to the caste articles, so if Doncram's having trouble at NRHP, I don't feel optimistic about how he's going to fare in Indian castes. My very limited contact with that topic area has not been happy, and it's been mostly confined to blocking people for death threats, something that has never occurred with respect to any article on old houses/barns/sheds/parts of towns where people want a tax credit. I really don't think Doncram understands how difficult such subject areas can be. You need asbestos underwear to survive in that environment. Acroterion (talk) 22:05, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

You may notice that I have only stayed out castes (something I know less than nothing about) but I've made sure on multiple occasions that others knew my comments were limited to the issues with the Methodist church edits. You couldn't pay me to work near castes. I've worked the MMA debates, and they are nothing compared to the fury. I have no personal issue with don, never crossed paths with him. Was asked to mentor him when I first became an admin, but took the job of mentoring YouReallyCan instead, what I still consider a much easier job. I just want some peace, and less bickering. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:18, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

My apologies to Acroterion. My opening statement was poorly phrased. I was not suggesting that you thought I was trying to own the caste/community stuff but rather that it is an accusation that has been levelled at me of late, principally by the Colonel and others involved with ARS. As for MMA, well, I've seen some of the furore and I'm quite happy to trust those people who are (a) sensible, (b) technically uninvolved and (c) see (a). As far as I am concerned "(a)" is synonymous with Dennis. Although I'd hope that you are finding the time to deal with the real life car crash rather than the metaphorical version that is flying around here. - Sitush (talk) 00:05, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I hadn't entirely assumed that you'd assumed that I thought that you thought that I believed you were owning the caste articles. Though it's of course been implied at ANI, I'm not buying it. Don't worry about it. And re:below, I've found that if you show up at the desk at Enterprise, they'll make a deal with the insurance people on the spot. It's in their interest to rent you a car and they'll do the legwork. Acroterion (talk) 01:50, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

She waited at Enterprise for hours. Part of the problem was the other person had just switched insurance companies two days prior, so it wasn't "in the system". He finally had to get bitch on the insurance company just to talk to a real person. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:54, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Cripes, if Enterprise can't figure out how to get you a car, it's pretty bad. Acroterion (talk) 02:17, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I hadn't entirely assumed that you'd assumed that I thought that you thought that I believed you were owning the caste articles. Woah, I need some sleep before I try to parse that one ;) - Sitush (talk) 01:57, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Isn't this an effective communication medium? Acroterion (talk) 02:17, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

• Two days later and the insurance company still hasn't authorized a rental car. Oh they did say if she just rented one on her own, they would pay 25 dollars a day, which is a laughable amount. All that matters is that my wife is ok. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:09, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

LatinoLatino (sockpuppet)

Hi, Dennis. It's nice to meet you. It seems that yesterday or today you've blocked an abusive editor and his sockpuppet accounts (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Imperium Romanum Sacrum). He really didn't like it and his response scared me a lot. With one of his sockpuppets (LatinoLatino) he opened a thrrad called "Enemies of Brazilian history" where my name was included.[3] Someone who uses this kind of language to describe another editor with different views ("Enemy") shouldn't be in a colaborative website like Wikipedia. And he seems to have made a legal threat: "I will offline inform other people about this behavior on Wikipedia".[4] Thank you for your time, --Lecen (talk) 20:39, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• I have revoked talk page access. As they are a confirmed sock, they need to use their primary account if they want to get unblocked. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:09, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Block experience

Hi Dennis, Thanks for the note about Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Lurulu. I was kind of surprised by your comment that you were concerned that the person genuinely didn't understand why or even that they were blocked.

May I suggest you create a doppelgänger account for yourself? You can block the account and log in with it to see the blocked-user's experience. There's no way a blocked user wouldn't know they were blocked.

Such accounts are also useful to experience various non-admin user interfaces so you can better understand the non-admin experience (which changes over time). FWIW, mine is Toddst1-test (talk · contribs · count · logs · page moves · block log).

Toddst1 (talk) 13:21, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• I didn't notice the notice you put in, and it appears the CU didn't either, and I assume it was from the sea of other templates on the page. I do have a doppleganger account that is blocked, User:DennisBrown, but I've never logged into it. You idea is a good one, as I've managed to never be blocked and haven't seen it from that perspective. I went ahead and logged in to try it, and once you try to edit, it does shown a simple text message saying you are blocked. I was expecting more of a banner, but it is sufficient that they likely knew. Sorry about the misunderstanding. It wasn't meant to be accusatory, I just notified because I thought you would want to know about the comment. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:30, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

No worries. It looked like a simple oversight on Courcelle's part. As you say, there's a sea of templates there. It also sounds like the blocked user's experience has changed some since 2009 - the last time I saw it. Maybe I should go block myself. :) Toddst1 (talk) 13:44, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• There is a little red text, but I think we can do better to make it more obvious. I suggest my favorite attention getter, a large stop sign. Or at least a bright red box that can't be missed. "Adequate" it might be, but it could be more obvious. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:46, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure that text and treatment is editable. I wonder where. It really should be prominent. I'm off to work now. Cheers. Toddst1 (talk) 13:58, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Blockedtext? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:48, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! I've changed the border and text to bright red, lets see if it sticks. That should make it much easier to see, stand out a bit. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:55, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

The blocked notice is so much better than it used to be. It used to take up your entire page this is what I saw. On that note, I'd like to make a remark on my experience being blocked. First off, it sucks, especially when the block is indefinite. I would say that a large number of users who are blocked made a mistake, but they sincerely want to improve Wikipedia. For some users, this might not be possible because there's a problem with their personality. For others, they are capable of being productive editors the moment they are unblocked. Consider me as an example. Getting rid of that indef block is insanely hard. It was a 4 day process, which is actually shorter than a lot of peoples' but felt like forever to me. From the first two declines, I didn't think I was going to be unblocked, and it sucked because all I wanted was the ability to edit again. I was worried about the possibility of losing talk page access and felt like my opportunities were running out. I got lucky that I had the right people review my third unblock request, but I had also been actively emailing admins (Boing! being one of them). I was heavily considering just creating a new account and editing with that. When you're blocked, actions like socking aren't meant to be malicious unless you are socking to vandalize articles. While some might think the worst case scenario is that the editor is unblocked and damages the encyclopedia, the real worst case scenario is that the editor is never unblocked if they would be productive. It is easy to re-block an editor who was unblocked while facing their first long-term or indef block. One editor I know off of the top of my head who I can compare this to is User:Carthage44 who was blocked for 2 weeks for personal attacks. While this is 2 weeks rather than an indef block and he should've just waited, he socked and his block was increased. He socked again and I believe it was switched to an indef block. He's now been 3 months without editing which should certainly be enough to change behavior, but faces the prospects of never being unblocked, or being unblocked after another 3 months because Wikipedia takes such a harsh stance towards a)indef blocked editors and b)anyone who has socked. I think it's important sometimes to realize if somebody's socking is malicious or if it's because they want to improve the Encyclopedia so bad. Another editor who has easily served their time is Penyulap. Personally, I wanted Penyulap banned and never heard from again at the time he was blocked; however, I can't imagine that unblocking Penyulap now would harm the project and can certainly imagine that it would help the project. It is almost certain that Penyulap's behavior will have changed because of the block (Penyulap's case is a bit more problematic because we know there are external mental issues). But in both Penyulap and Carthage44's cases, neither of them are likely to request an unblock knowing that it hurts their possibility for a new unblock request. Is there a reason for standard offer to be 6 months rather than one month? In fact, general consensus seems to be that any habit can be changed in 21 days. Some of these poor Wikipedia behaviors wouldn't be considered habits, but is it possible that the same 21 day logic is enough for somebody to realize they have to change their behavior? In any case, this has all been stream of consciousness so it might not have a coherent point but </rant> Ryan Vesey 03:21, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Nice turn of phrase

"I'm just saying ANI is like a night court where all the judges like to give life sentences, so it is best saved as a last resort." I liked that. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:02, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• Thank you. I hope my fellow judges don't take offense, it was a bit of hyperbole perhaps, but as you know things often do get blown out of proportion there. We handle big problems just fine at ANI, but not small problems. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:05, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

WP:ANIISLOUSY. Toddst1 (talk) 14:18, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

That has some family resemblance to Point #12 here. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:28, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Of course it is your fault when you report someone at ANI. Before that, we were in blissful ignorance of the problem and you just popped our bubble. Besides, we were already busy having a 10k / 100 comment discussion because someone said "fuck" on their own talk page, and we couldn't decide if it needed to go to Arb or not.  ;-) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:33, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Are you tawkin' ta me? (said in my best Bickle). Toddst1 (talk) 14:48, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Sergiu Popovici

I just wanted give you a heads up that when you deleted Sergiu Popovici you missed the talk page. Cheers. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:48, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• D'oh! You can tell that deleting content isn't my specialty. Thank you for the heads up, I've remedied that now. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:50, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Earth100 AN/I

You never replied to my inquiry about reporting people mentioned, but not the subject of AN/Is, so I'm still unsure of the procedure. Do you have to inform all people mentioned in an AN/I, even if they are not the subject, or only the subject(s) of the AN/I? Inks.LWC (talk) 17:14, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• Sorry if I missed that. You need to notify anyone you are reporting, as well as anyone whose conduct might be examined. IE: if you were reporting "Bob" for edit warring with "Alice", you would have to notify them both as both of their behavior would be examined. You don't have to notify those that just participated in discussing it, unless you think they need to know. Be careful, if you notify one those that agree with your position, that is considered WP:CANVASSing. The idea in notification is to be objective and tell those that should be there and offer info. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:10, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
  • OK, thank you. I had only notified Earth100 there, since I was unsure of the rule, and since Meow had shaped up behavior after giving him the edit warring warning, I figured that bringing him into the AN/I would end up leading to more fighting rather than resolution. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Inks.LWC (talk) 19:16, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Blocked user

Hi there, can you take a look here as you're the blocking admin? Bjelleklang - talk 18:48, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• I have, and I still maintain they are a sockpuppet. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:08, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks! Bjelleklang - talk 19:37, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Reseal discussion involving User:MikeFromCanmore?

Dennis Brown, will you reseal this discussion?[5] I apologize for adding on to the discussion outside of the contained area, but I felt that I should respond. But I know that this user is just going to come back and hurl more insults...and rationale based on his own personal opinion rather than on any Wikipedia policy or guideline, and I don't want User:JoannaSerah to be bugged anymore by this unless she wishes to be bugged by it. There's obviously no use in trying to discuss things with User:MikeFromCanmore. 220.255.2.160 (talk) 21:03, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Yo, 220, I've been following this thread as well (DB beat me by a split second on the sock block), and I've reclosed the discussion. Just FYI, you can do the same in the future by moving the {{hab}} to be right below what you want to collapse; it's not an admin thing or anything. For what it's worth, I think you might have been a little ill-advised to post it in the first place, since an indefblocked editor can't reply. But no worries: it's water under the bridge, and not a huge deal anyway. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:12, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm aware that that I could have resealed it, but I was taking the timestamp into account. Resealing it with the original timestamp makes it look like I violated the "Do not modify" seal and only serves for User:MikeFromCanmore to then violate it (although he'd most likely be reverted). And if I had added my own timestamp, it looks like I was trying to get the last word over User:MikeFromCanmore. I was in a way, but not initially by having the discussion sealed. 220.255.2.140 (talk) 21:32, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

If all else fails, move the closing HAB, and just leave a very good summary. Look at her history: When I first did that, I said I was being bold and feel free to revert me :) Same thing applies to you when acting in good faith. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:22, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Imperium Romanum Sacrum

This doesn't seem to have any SPI content. Dougweller (talk) 21:46, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Not sure why there is no link, but its at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Imperium Romanum Sacrum/Archive. Monty₈₄₅ 21:50, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• Fixed :) Assuming you use Twinkle and you run across that problem again, just go to that page, select the PAGE tab, and then PURGE. That will flush the server and make it show up in the current cached version. Not sure why that does that, but every now and again that will happen. I already purged and it is fixed now. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:20, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Dewey Wins

Arb elections: Win or lose, it's gonna hurt in the morning.

• [6]

Shame if it's not free. Being one of the 8 aside, I'd be tempted to post that to my user page if I even merely got more than 50% : )

That aside, it will be nice to not feel like I'm under the community-microscope : ) - Though... I have several community-wide discussions on the back burner that I just need to summon the energy to start. As I think you know, these things can take a fair amount of energy. Sooo... : )- jc37 01:43, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

• Oh, I can imagine it would it is a pain much worse than RfA for sure. You can have it. I don't see me ever wanting to be an Arb. Too much sacrifice. Not really sure what the reward is. Being an Arb seems like being in a boxing match. Even if you come out a winner, you still got beat up in the process. There you go, a picture for ANI :) Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:02, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Dennis: Too bad, you'd be a good Arbitrator. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:09, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
    • I appreciate the kind words, but I'm not sure the job would bring out the best in me, honestly. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:23, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
      • I'm quite sure the job is extremely strenuous for everyone who takes it, and stretches everyone to the limits of their patience, but I think you'd be equal to the task. Still, you know yourself better than I do. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:33, 11 December 2012 (UTC)