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October 8

Operating washing machine at high altitude

Typically, a washing machine's highest temperature setting is at 90C/95C/200F (in my experience, that is - may differ from country to country). Just below boiling point, in other words, which makes sense. It occurred to me just now, though, that that'd already be above boiling point at higher elevations, due to the air pressure dependence - I'm too lazy to research it in detail now, but unless my memory deceives me, it drops to somewhere in the 70s C atop very high mountains, so such a scenario isn't even all that far-fetched.

So, if one were to use a typical modern washing machine at that hot setting someplace high-up, what happens? Does the water get heated to a correspondingly lower just-below-boiling temperature, or to the nominal temperature, and in the latter case, what would be the physical effects? I'm guessing this depends in large part on the operation of the kinds of heating mechanisms used in such devices? Any insights?

- 91.13.245.127 (talk) 14:08, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I've only seen washing machines that reach those temperatures in Europe, where consumer markets tend to be well regulated. I have not seen those machines here in the United States, where interstate commerce is unrestricted and there are populations living above 1800 meters, where the boiling point falls below 95C. If they are sold here, I would think they would have to be printed with warnings about use above that altitude. I would think that a country would not allow the import of machines with such high temperatures unless 1) all inhabited parts of the country are at a low altitude, or 2) consumer markets are well enough regulated to prevent the sale of such machines above a certain altitude without mechanical/electronic adjustment or at least a warning printed on the equipment about use above that altitude. I doubt that these machines are equipped with altitude sensors. Allowing the water in the washing vessel to boil would be dangerous because it would create a risk of hot liquid escaping and injuring a person. With repeated use, the steam produced could also cause water damage to surrounding structures. Marco polo (talk) 15:55, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

• Can I assume you are talking about dishwashers? "Washing machine" in the US usually refers to a clothes washer, and they smply run off the home hot-water line. Whatever you are referring to, I assume it is not a clothes washer. μηδείς (talk) 16:44, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

No, most washing machines for clothing have heating elements and regulate the temperature. Some also have an option of utilising an existing hot water supply to safe electricity, but will still use internal heating elements to reach the desired temperature. Normal settings for European style machines are 30/40/60/90 ℃, although modern machines tend to support even lower and sometimes in-between temperatures. Using only the building warm water supply is very rare, and I think essentially unheard of in Europe. Most domestic warm-water supplies don't provide more than 50 ℃, if that. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 16:52, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

For that matter, dishwashers commonly have internal heating elements also—at least, all the ones I've owned have had them, but none of those reached a temperature near 90℃.

This chart shows that the boiling point passes 90℃ at about 10,000 feet or 3,000 m elevation. In the US, the city of Leadville is about that high, and in countries like Nepal and Bolivia there must be considerable numbers of people living at such altitudes. However, whether washing machines capable of high temperature are sold in these places is another matter. --174.88.134.156 (talk) 17:03, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, that's odd, in the US I have never used a clothes washer in a house or a laundromat that had water too hot to put your hands in on the "hot" setting. I would imagine there are industrial models that approach boiling, and dishwashers seem to normally have an internal heating unit. μηδείς (talk) 18:44, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Here in the UK (where I remember the old wash boilers that had a fire underneath), I've never seen a clothes washer that didn't have a 90C setting, though I've never needed to use that high temperature. Do Americans never wash above 50C? Dbfirs 09:41, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

In the US, you generally have options labeled "cold", "warm", and "hot", but most machines give you no indication what specific temperatures those setting actually correspond to. According to this [1] by GE Appliances, the "hot" setting really is determined by the temperature of water provided by the hot water line connected to the home's water heater (a typical water heater setting is 120 °F (49 °C)). Dragons flight (talk) 10:20, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I was not aware of that pondian difference in washing machines. If the water heater is set to 120F then the water in the machine is unlikely to be above 110F and possibly lower if there is a long run of pipe from the heater to the machine. Here in the UK, modern washing machines have only a cold inlet (though I do connect mine to the hot water supply, to save electricity in heating). Dbfirs 12:43, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

I discussed this at length with my father who has built schools, hospitals, hotels, and other institutions and who was originally an apprenticed pipe fitter. He confirmed my knowledge that in general circumstances American washing machines simply run off the building's main hot and cold water lines. It's for this reason that when I wash a large load on hot, I will usually run a small load first on more delicate items set at hot, where the temperature will actually be tepid by the time the drum fills.

There is of course the question of industrial facilities, which he could not advise me on. My sister also has a side loader with enough buttons to command the Starship Enterprise (actually, the thing sounds more like a TARDIS), and I know there is indeed a "hot" setting that heats the water above what comes in from the pipes. μηδείς (talk) 15:48, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

It suggests about 1524m for 95℃. Based on that and List of highest towns by country, it would at least be a potential problem in France, Italy, Switzerland, Armenia, Austria, Andorra, Spain, Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan for such machines. Nil Einne (talk) 17:43, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I also found [2] which is a 95 degrees C machine apparently sold in Sri Lanka. (The language used makes me thing it's not simply something appearing on all LG sites. Also [3].) I'm also thinking it is or was sold in India [4], another place where it could easily have problems. On the other hands, if the description isn't misleading, the washing machine is designed to deal with steam in at least some cases, although probably not when used for a normal clothes wash. On the other hand, it seems likely this machine is or was sold for the relatively high end of the market, and I'm not sure how likely they are to be used in places where it may be a problem in Sri Lanka. Possibly for India too. Nil Einne (talk) 18:02, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

(EC) Do (front loader which I believe are the norm in much of Europe) washing machines in Europe even have hot water inlets? Most front loaders in NZ don't, and [5] seems to suggest it's the same in the UK. The reason AFAIK (also supported by that source) is similar as for dishwashers, most use so little water that unless you have very well insulated pipes (and probably even then) it's quite ineffective to use supplied hot water as you're mostly taking cooled down water from the pipes. Perhaps if your hot water supply is every cheap (e.g. solar, or very occasionally I guess heatpump or non-eletric) but these cases are considered rare enough most manufacturers don't bother. Top loading machines here still seem to often still have dual connection, occasionally with internal heating as well. Nil Einne (talk) 17:25, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Anecdotally yes, front loaders in the US can have both cold and hot water hookups. It was certainly true of the couple of front loaders I've known well-enough to say for sure, and I would be surprised if it wasn't routine for both lines to be present. It is worth noting that much of the US uses water heaters that run on natural gas, which at US rates can be much cheaper than heating water with electricity. That may help motivate the use of residential hot water rather than internal electric heating. Dragons flight (talk) 16:05, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, virtually all washing machines in the UK are front-loaders. They don't have supplied hot water feeds. But about 20 years ago, you had a choice to use the supplied hot water or to heat it yourself. There was a red hot-water pipe and a blue cold-water one, and you could install one or both. I think it would be good to go back to that. I was interested to read Stephan's view that domestic hot water is at no more than 50 deg. Ours, on a Norwegian-made air-to-water heat pump is at a maximum of 60 deg, which I find fine, but the installer - was worried about as 60 deg is only just enough to kill legionella. 50 deg I don't think meets new-build regulations in the UK. Itsmejudith (talk) 23:49, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

This datasheet from Toshiba does indeed specify a maximum altitude of 1000 meters AMSL (in the microscopic print at the bottom of the page). Tevildo (talk) 17:18, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

At least Toshiba recommending Windows 8.1 is in bigger print Nil Einne (talk) 17:28, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Ohh, nice find, Tevildo! And thanks to everyone else for your input. :)

I'm thinking there are two ways a manufacturer could go about this, and the outcome would depend on which they choose: The machine could heat the water to the indicated temperature per se, as it presumably does for all lower settings, or it could work like an electric kettle here: "a thermostat, triggered by the rising steam as the water would come to boil, would flex, thereby cutting off the current." In the former case, a lower boiling point would mean that it'd just keep on boiling off water into steam (assuming washing machines aren't airtight, that is - if they are, things could get quite nasty indeed) and never reach the target temperature at all. What happens in that case would depend on the programming. In the latter case, it should behave as usual, right?

- 91.13.245.127 (talk) 00:18, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Personal bank a/c details

I’m 'planning only' to create a website in the near future and or insert my personal bank a/c details in any website(s) - only ‘how to send money in the a/c’ information of the country I’m living in so that I could receive money from any other country, including the country I’m living – probably without opening up a company, be it for charity/whatever; I definitely need donations. I would like to know the risk factors associated with this methodology. If this post fall under the ‘legal advice’, then please assist me with a ‘list of risk factors’; would be sufficient in order for me to grasp/analyse. Regards. -- Space Ghost (talk) 18:28, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Electronic_funds_transfer has information several different ways that money can be transferred. But I don't know what you mean by a/c. Here in the USA that usually means air conditioning. ac also doesn't have anything that looks relevant to money transfer.

Paypal claims to work in 190 countries [6], so there's a good chance it might work for you. I don't know if they can work internationally, but you might look into Patreon or crowdfunding more generally.

If you care to share what country you are located in (or your bank is located in), we might be able to give you better references and information on transferring money to that country from other countries. (N.B. I do not think this is a request for legal advice. This is a request for information about mechanisms of transferring funds. It can be answered and referenced without giving any legal or professional advice. If anyone tries to provide legal advice here, I may remove it.) SemanticMantis (talk) 18:44, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I would love to tell, but I'm embarrassed of it -- Space Ghost (talk) 20:09, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

a/c simple means account, see wiktionary:a/c. Nil Einne (talk) 18:46, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

D'oh! Thanks. I don't think direct bank transfers are usually recommended for this kind of thing, but I don't have time right now to look for further refs. OP may well find a useful and functional alternative among the links above. SemanticMantis (talk) 18:55, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

You might want to talk to a bank at an early stage about this idea. You might need to set up a secure server. Or maybe Paypal could do it all for you. Don't forget that if your potential donors can pay by credit card, then their credit card company can handle the currency exchange, although they will have to pay a transaction charge. Itsmejudith (talk) 23:41, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

A few years back, a "journalist" published his bank details in a national newspaper to test this idea. £500 was subsequently taken from his account.[7] --Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:38, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

The direct debit would, of course, be refunded immediately on request, but the UK system allows almost any company or charity to set up debits on the assumption that no permanent harm will be done. I wonder if they allow new accounts to implement direct debits? The potential for fraud is worrying, especially if the banks allow new accounts to implement direct debits, then the accounts are closed before the complaints arrive. Presumably, banks that don't check are liable for any loss. Dbfirs 09:28, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

My understanding from discussions surrounding the Clarkson case when I read them a few weeks ago is that the requirements for setting up a paperless direct debit in the UK (and probably most countries with similar concepts), is the requirements are quite strigent. I don't think it'll be easy for someone to set it up and take off with the money except perhaps a formerly good business owner who's gone off the deep end or getting very desperate, or perhaps a resonable business with untrustworth upper level staff (and even then, the business may go bankrupt, but I suspect the banks won't actually lose much money). There is some related discussion here [8] [9] [10] which mention various checks although don't go in to the details.

The Clarkson case is of course primarily, for lack of better word, trolling. Since the money went to charity, it's fairly unlikely the person gained anything except a bit of "fun" or maybe a bet with a mate. If you're asking for donations and people feel your request is unresonable, perhaps there is a risk you'll have the same, but ultimately you just have to pay proper attention to your account statements, which you should be anyway, and dispute such transactions. There is perhaps an additional minor risk of people trying to use your direct debits to pay for stuff, but this will mostly be bills and the like, the risk is far lower than it would be for something like credit cards. In those cases, you'd expect the payee to follow up on it but I don't know how well they actually do so [11]. This is also interesting [12], I'm not really sure how well payees are actually doing any of that.

Personally, I think the risk of putting your bank account number online in most countries tends to be overblown, while I'm not saying you should do it willy nilly, if you have a good reason to do it, it isn't as risky as some online advice suggests and from what I can tell, most banks don't actually require that you keep your account number secret, hence they the info tends to be (AFAIK anyway) on most account statements etc. In fact, this includes cheques, and preprinted debit slips that may come with them, and the latest at least when they were more common, were likely discarded or simple left behind when someone made a mistake. For that matter, the same when these details were written out. (And probably a bigger worry than reversable unauthorised debits is the possibility of someone trying to pretend to be you to the bank, if the banks checks are weak.) The US may be an exception, or at least there are lots of claims about how you should never give out your routing number (despite it also being on cheques which are still so common there).

However I'm not sure whether this is a particularly useful way for the OP to ask for money, paying people via their bank account often only works well nationally. Besides some special cases like SEPA in the Eurozone, internationally you'll generally have to use a Telegraphic Transfer like payment which tend to have quite high fees making them only worthwhile for fairly large transfers.

Nil Einne (talk) 01:27, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

A direct debit a/c is/could be an issue. Definitely need a thing like Paypal; sounds good too. A problem I recall from the past i.e. 'I think paypal (or something like it) tests by taking a £1 out from the a/c you register in order to test if it is real/active, what it can't do with a savings a/c'. Paypal users, please let me know if this testing occurs or not. That being said, after reading Judith's statement, I think creating a website would also be an issue due to server security reason, and thanks for stating it out Judith. I guess if I don't wish to open up a company now then the only plan I could/should have is to use a savings a/c, and its a different case based on my experience, i.e., you can input money via all the transaction methods available but you can't pay for anything with its card. You can only cash out from a bank counter or ATM. I've also heard that people have used this method already, terrorists for example, the once who got caught thereafter the 9/11 incident, when the whole charity business became an issue in UK thereafter an extensive investigation - it was found that many were using this 'move' for personal gain (which still occurs in every country even after they've opened up a charity company) - resulting in sending out a charity company number ID for every charity company that exists. Nowadays people don't donate until or unless they see the number ID. Regardless, saving a/c is what I have to go with if I don't open up a company a/c, no matter what country I live in...well this is what I have in this 'trampy' 'people killing' country.

The second important part of this matter is, I would like to know who the donors are and keep a record for future use, how much they've donated...this is very important because I don't think bank statement information will be sufficient. Do you guys think a/the bank owner(s) will at least contact the donor(s) on my behalf in order to send my messages? - I'll definatly ask a bank owner like Judith stated, I'm just wondering (at this moment in time) if it is possible - Of course I have to tell the bank owner why and its not an issue when the right time comes...

Space Ghost (talk) 20:09, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Medical: in a human body does the heart regulates the blood pressure, right?

how is it than instead handled in some animals which are having 2,3 or 5 hearts? What is there regulating the blood pressure? (as I know elephants have more than 1 heart and I have heard about a dinosaurier what was having more than 6 hearts inside his body..) --Hijodetenerife (talk) 22:30, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I think you should start by reading Blood pressure#Regulation and Elephant#Internal and sexual organs. Then maybe reformulate your question.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 22:40, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict)See Blood_pressure#Physiology. The heart is the source of blood pressure, but not what regulates it. Regulation of blood pressure is carried out by changes in blood volume, consistency, or the properties of blood vessels. And elephants do not have two hearts. They have an unusually shaped heart that has historically been misinterpreted as two distinct hearts [13]. Someguy1221 (talk) 22:43, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

October 9

Feldherrnhalle

in the german article about this there is a video https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldherrnhalle and this video is showing a "grafitti" in the year of 1945 which is saying "I am ashamed to be german", could you tell me if this grafittis were made by the allies? Or did some Germans really have become shaming for being a German and they have written this? I am really curious.. --Hijodetenerife (talk) 04:00, 9 October 2015 (UTC) this video--Hijodetenerife (talk) 04:07, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't see how anyone could know who wrote some graffiti on a wall in Germany 70 years ago, but unless you have good cause to suppose otherwise (e.g. a spelling error) it would seem reasonable to assume it was written by a German. Many people, on both sides, were ashamed to be involved in the war and its atrocities.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:46, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

The articles "German collective guilt" and "anti-Germans (political current)" explain a bit, although the latter is heavily focused on the more modern anarchist/pro-Israel interpretation (if you can read German, de:Antideutsche goes into the history of it a bit more). In a nutshell, yes, there were (and are) Germans who were so ashamed of the imperialist and anti-Semitic chapters of German history so much that they came hate Germany itself. Of course, without knowing the mind of the graffiti writer, it's also possible that the graffiti was written by a hardcore nationalist ashamed at Germany for surrendering... Smurrayinchester 09:17, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

The grafitti text seen by the OP on the Feldherrnhalle ("Field Marshalls' Hall") in Munich reads: K.Z.Dachau - Velden - Buchenwald, Ich scharne mich das ich ein Deutsche bin. [14]. The sentiment expressed would be in line with the Denazification initiative launched by the allies in January 1946. Bestfaith (talk) 19:07, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually, it's "K.Z. Dachau — Velten —Buchenwald/ Ich schäme mich, daß ich ein Deutscher bin". The first line refers to former concentration camps. The most plausible explanation is that a German wrote the graffiti expressing his shame over the Nazi concentration camps (and ideology). It was not a goal of denazification in the American zone (where Munich lay) to make the population ashamed of being German, and calling for shame would be an approach likely to alienate the population. Asking people to be ashamed of their nationality is subtly different from blaming them for their complicity, which the Allies did. Marco polo (talk) 19:22, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Marco polo, I believe you are right. There is little documentation about KZ-Außenlager Velten (24 km northwest of Berlin), which was a subcamp of Ravensbrück concentration camp for women. Bestfaith (talk) 20:16, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Nuclear waste deposit

In Ilkka Remes's 2009 book Isku ytimeen ("A strike into the core"), the protagonists object to depositing hazardous nuclear waste deep below the ground. Well, where else could it be deposited? Out in the open? Or shot away into space? JIP | Talk 06:59, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Shooting nuclear waste into space (specifically, into the Sun, which is hard to miss due to its size and gravity, and wouldn't be affected by a few measly tons of depleted uranium) has been considered before. The obvious problem is getting it up there: all spaceflights are currently done by rockets, and if a rocket full of nuclear waste explodes, you've just detonated a gigantic dirty bomb in the upper atmosphere. Smurrayinchester 09:23, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Our Radioactive waste article lists Above-ground disposal, Geologic disposal, Transmutation, Re-use of waste and Space disposal. Alansplodge (talk) 11:53, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Erm no, the sun is very hard to hit. You'll have to brake away most of Earth orbital speed (30 km/s) to get near the sun. This is also why Mercury is so hard to reach. Lots of delta-v needed. Fgf10 (talk) 19:58, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

It is common to object to putting nuclear waste underground because most people believe that nuclear material is invented out of thin air and then the waste is pulled out of it - again, invented out of thin air. They do not comprehend that the nuclear material was underground to begin with. So, they assume that by putting it underground, you are increasing the amount of radioactive material in the Earth. If a person has such a misconception, they will want to get it as far away from the Earth as possible. Further, this is a topic that is difficult to discuss because there is far more ignorance and emotion involved than science. If you want to discuss it with someone, try to avoid talking about nuclear power plants or nuclear bombs. Talk about radon. I live in an area that is very high in radon. It comes from naturally-occurring radioactive material in the ground. Shouldn't the government try to dig all that radioactive material up, put it in barrels, and rebury it someplace where people don't live? 209.149.113.94 (talk) 19:54, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

While it may be true that concern over buried nuclear waste is exaggerated—I'm not attempting to argue that point one way or the other—but "the nuclear material" in nuclear waste is certainly not the same material that "was underground to begin with". First, isolating the radioactive fuel from the natural ore means greatly increasing its concentration, and still more so if uranium enrichment is performed. Second, any nuclear reaction by definition produces a different substance. Third, the high levels of radiation within a nuclear reactor—particularly neutrons, but depending on the neutron temperature—will cause nuclear reactions in nearby objects (for example, pipes, structural elements, casings around the fuel). These reactions may produce radioactive materials that would not be found in nature "underground to begin with" in any significant quantity. --174.88.134.156 (talk) 03:13, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Since concentration is the problem, diluting it in the ocean would actually be a solution, say by dumping barrels in the Mariana Trench. Of course, the political objections would be huge, with people imagining Godzilla being awakened. StuRat (talk) 04:28, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Already been done and prevented from doing it again; see Ocean disposal of radioactive waste. Alansplodge (talk) 12:06, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Electronic cigarettes / vaporizers

I know someone who's got a really bad addiction to them and being a former smoke just simply can't quit puffing away. Worse still, does most of the smoking in a small bed room. Will all that smoking in there leave a nasty residue in the room, bit like cigerettes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.27.47 (talk) 13:26, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Smoke is smoke wherever it comes from, i.e. "an aerosol of solid particles and liquid droplets", so even if the room is well ventilated, it will always deposit itself somewhere, mostly on the floor, furnishings, and walls, but it probably won't smell as bad as cigarette smoke.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:48, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

You should learn to read a complete sentence; Then come back and try again.--TMCk (talk) 17:19, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

That seems a bit harsh. If you're referring to the fact electronic cigarettes don't actually emit smoke since there's no combusion or pyrolysis, it was the OP who referred to it as "smoking" twice. While the OP also said something about vaporizers that could arguably include something which does emit smoke. Perhaps, Shantavira should have checked out the until now unlinked article on electronic cigarettes which does clarify there is no combustion before responding, but it seems unnecessary to leave such a strong response, when they simply replied based on what the OP actually said, even if the OP was either confused, or used a confusing word. And to be clear there is no way reading the smoke article in it's entirety is going to tell you that electronic cigarettes don't emit smoke without existing knowledge, since it doesn't say talk about that. Nil Einne (talk) 03:41, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

I think it is quite legit to call out uneducated guesses stated as fact, especially when made while having an encyclopedia (even if it is WP) in front of their nose.--TMCk (talk) 15:56, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Where's your evidence there was any uneducated guess? And why did you make no meaningful attempt to clarify the situation, if you wanted to call stuff out? (How are people supposed to know what you're calling out, if your statement would leave people as confused as they were before you called it out.) Frankly your replies, and your earlier reply deserve a far long reply then is fair to mention here, so I'm taking this to Wikipedia talk:Reference desk#What guesses? And why no clarification. Suffice it so say, I'm not sure if the RD is the best place for you if you're only going to offer confusing and harsh critism, without actually also providing meaningful clarification when it's sorely needed and the fundamental nature of the RD. Nil Einne (talk) 03:31, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

BTW, your "as fact" is criticism also seems unnecessarily strong, considering that the statement of concern isn't totally clear (it didn't actually say e-cigs emit smoke although it implied it) and could easily be reworded to be accurate without a significant change. Consider for example:

If you're correct that electronic cigarettes emit smoke, well then smoke is smoke wherever it comes from, i.e. "an aerosol of solid particles and liquid droplets emitted when a material undergoes combustion or pyrolysis", so even if the room is well ventilated, it will always deposit itself somewhere, mostly on the floor, furnishings, and walls, but it probably won't smell as bad as cigarette smoke.

Nil Einne (talk) 04:24, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

"Will?" Who knows. "Can?" If any device you use (even a candle) produces smoke, you can get residue. However, tobacco cigarettes tend to have a lot of tar. That builds up as a thick yellow film around a room. It is difficult for simple smoke to get the same level of buildup, but you can see it in small quantities. Some people have wall-mounted candle holders. If you see one that is actually used, you will likely see a waxy film on the wall near the candle. That is the buildup. But, all of that requires smoke. If it is water vapor, that is different. If the water vapor has stuff in it (such as an oil of some kind), that oil will be carried out in the vapor and readily deposited wherever the water may land. That can cause a heavy film. Check out a kitchen where people cook with oil regularly (Italian or Chinese kitchens are good for this) and you will find that everything is coated in a hard oil residue. The issue here is time and quantity. Kitchens cook with a lot of oil, so it builds up faster. Of course, that is assuming there is oil in the vapor. What if it is just water vapor? That won't "build up", but it can cause problems. If the paint in the room is not oil-based, constant collection of vapor can loosen it, most likely from the ceiling. I've seen water vaporizers loosen paint a few different times - all but one was only on the ceiling. Again, it is quantity. A lot of vapor from a vaporizer will do damage faster. Finally, there is one more concern - mold/mildew. If there is enough water vapor to increase the humidity in part of the room, it will increase the likelihood of getting mold or mildew growth, which can be another form of buildup. 209.149.113.94 (talk) 19:47, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

A mysterious placename in Russian Poland

I'm researching an article about a chapel in England which was founded by a former resident of Russian Poland. Three different sources, published between 1857 and 2002, give his birthplace as "Vinooty" [sic], which doesn't look like a "typical" Polish language place name. Google searches draw a blank. One source says it was/is near the Prussian border. Does anybody have any suggestions, thoughts etc. about where this might be? The man in question was born in 1812. Ta, Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 21:01, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Presumably you are talking about Edward Samuel, as a search for "Vinooty" in Google Books turns up several references of him—including a passage where he himself says that it's near the Prussian border, so I think you can consider that bit of information solid. But really for this sort of thing I think you might need to go to a good map library.

I figured the spelling might have been anglicized, in which case the original was probably something like Vinuti or Vinnuti. So I checked the Polish-language Wikipedia for article titles beginning with Vinn, Vino, or Vinu. But, as you see, there's nothing that looks like a spelling variation on Vinooty. I wondered if there were diacritical marks on one or more of the initial letters, but apparently the Polish language does not use diacriticals on V, I, or N. I give up. --174.88.134.156 (talk) 05:40, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

• Polish uses «ń». —Tamfang (talk) 06:30, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

• Oops. --174.88.134.156 (talk) 20:29, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
• But not before a vowel – oops myself. —Tamfang (talk) 03:10, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

"V" is very rare in Polish. If it still has a similar name, the place would be likely to be spelled with an "F" or "W" now. Dragons flight (talk) 13:58, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

• While you're up, try Wy–. —Tamfang (talk) 07:44, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything under "Wyn" either. Alansplodge (talk) 14:30, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Vainutas in modern Lithuania seems to fit the description well. (The JewishGen Community database is very handy in searches like this.) הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 17:12, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

There is a Polish article one can find by going to the link Hasirpad gave for Vainutas. The Polish name given is Wojnuta, which would be like "Voynoota" in English. The final vowel may not matter because it can change by case. μηδείς (talk) 18:03, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Considering that Samuel was of Jewish birth, the Yiddish name should be the most relevant, which, in the case of Vainutas, is Template:Hebrew "Vaynute", the first syllable sounding somewhat like English vine. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 18:43, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't doubt you are right. The difficulty for me is that the name in the OP's question is not in a phonetic transcription. But if Vi- rhymes with vye, then Vainutas seems the obvious answer. μηδείς (talk) 19:32, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks to all for your research and answers. Vainutas sounds like a good call, geographically and linguistically. When I write the article (probably tomorrow) I am tempted to wikilink Vainutas and put a note on the talk page linking to this thread. The man in question is indeed Edward Samuel. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 19:54, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Be aware both that discussions here do not count as reliable sources, and that any link would have to be an "external link" to the diff for this conversation in the page history, or the link would soon disappear. Such external links are usually quickly removed from articles. I would do a search on the subject and Vainutas on google/google scholar/google books/amazon and link to whatever book or article you find that supports this claim. μηδείς (talk) 21:42, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't be too strict about the reference in this case. I think wording like

"Vinooty" (presumably [[Vainutas]]) <!-- diff to this discussion --> would be good enough in this case. — Sebastian 03:48, 12 October 2015 (UTC) By all means, but this discussion is OR, and a link to a diff will quickly be spotted and removed, especially if the article is being reviewed for DYK or the like. The OP will be better served by searching for Vainutas or Vaynute and the subject and quoting whatever independent source he finds. μηδείς (talk) 15:36, 12 October 2015 (UTC) OK, to be on the safe side I have merely added a hidden note in the article to direct people to the Talk page, and have actually put the details (and a link back to here; hopefully I've done that correctly) on the talk page itself. Thanks again for all the help, Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 17:42, 12 October 2015 (UTC) October 10 Name for common error in production of print materials I'm looking for the name for a manufacturing error that seems to occur in magazines, newspapers, and books. From time to time, I'll notice that a page has been folded in at one corner, and when I unfold it, I'll see that the edges of that corner extend beyond the edges of the rest of the page. In other words, there is extra paper material in one corner, as if the page wasn't cut properly. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Is there a term for this error? Thanks! Zagalejo^^^ 04:27, 10 October 2015 (UTC) I've seen it myself, but don't know a name for it. StuRat (talk) 04:30, 10 October 2015 (UTC) According to this dictionary of printing (entry 4543), printers call that a dog's ear (although our article deals only with dog-earing as a form of bookmarking). I wonder whether there's a different term for the situation in which the corner of a sheet is folded before being printed, so that part of the text is printed on the "wrong side" of the dog ear. Deor (talk) 11:50, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Ah, good find! Thanks! Zagalejo^^^ 14:18, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Why is the Stock of Linkedin more worth, than Twitter, Facebook or any other social network? and this for years? I don´t even know how they earn money, and I am till today not registered there --Hijodetenerife (talk) 08:11, 10 October 2015 (UTC) You're confusing the price of a share of stock, which is essentially arbitrary, with the total value of a company. The total valuation of LinkedIn (the sum of the values of all existing stock shares) is currently about $25 billion; the total valuation of Facebook is about $250 billion. Looie496 (talk) 10:43, 10 October 2015 (UTC) To explain a bit more, a company can offer different quantities of stock, and it's the value of each stock times the total number that gives you the total stock valuation. They do generally try to keep stock value in a certain range, say between $10 and $1000 each, by issuing more as the company grows, or splitting each stock into 2, 3 or more. StuRat (talk) 14:56, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Sure but because linkedin stock is so expansive there are people what are really interested to buy this, why?--Hijodetenerife (talk) 03:05, 11 October 2015 (UTC) One share of LNKD is $196. How is that a barrier? Is it hard to buy a small number of shares? Do many investors hold less than $196 of any one stock? —Tamfang (talk) 07:49, 11 October 2015 (UTC) Yes, small investors exist who but stock in smaller increments than that. There are many reasons to do so, even if you have more than that much to invest. One is dollar cost averaging, which requires buying a small amount at a time. Another is diversification, which requires buying only a small amount of each stock. If you combine these, and do dollar cost averaging over a diverse portfolio, you could invest tens of thousands a year total and still not want to buy individual stock in increments that large. StuRat (talk) 16:51, 12 October 2015 (UTC) but is to buy as it's is to its? —Tamfang (talk) 03:15, 13 October 2015 (UTC) I fixed "buy". Thanks. StuRat (talk) 17:50, 13 October 2015 (UTC) Female to Male ratio Which towns / cities have the most skewed male to female ratio. Because I'd really like to move to a place where there are way more women then men so there's less competition. Likewise, if I was a homosexual, I would want the inverse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.27.47 (talk) 12:55, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Though these cities may not have the most skewed ratio, but they are recommended by this website. http://www.aswglobalist.com/journey/top-10-cities-for-single-men/ --The mediocre Wikipedian (talk to me.) 13:58, 10 October 2015 (UTC) That doesn't talk about sex ratio, but rather things like sports teams. StuRat (talk) 14:52, 10 October 2015 (UTC) For the United States, see http://www.city-data.com/top28.html. - Lindert (talk) 14:24, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Note that all the cities listed have small populations. That's because the law of large numbers would make such a drastically skewed ratio unlikely in a large city, unless the national population was similarly skewed, perhaps by a devastating war that killed off most of the men. In a small city, however, the presence of one girl's school could make quite a difference. StuRat (talk) 14:52, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Places that attract retirees (pensioners) may have a surplus of women (women have a higher life expectancy.) Everything about this question is messed up. The sex ratio skew can't be more than fractions of a percent. Just how beta does one have to be for that to make any difference? What about lost opportunity costs, for example if it's some backwater place with no good jobs? Are you 12? Aecho6Ee (talk) 20:03, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Beta? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:22, 10 October 2015 (UTC) yes, as in beta male. I used this in the non-scientific, colloquial sense of "bad with women" Aecho6Ee (talk) 20:30, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Talk about all messed up. I suspect that someone who gets dating advice from the ref desk is going to find that even if you're going to try catching fish in a barrel, your prey might still respond, "Not even if you were the last man on earth." μηδείς (talk) 17:57, 11 October 2015 (UTC) That, too Aecho6Ee (talk) 13:26, 12 October 2015 (UTC) It depends on the size of place you're talking about. If it's small, as illustrated by the above source, you can get a massive skew as with Roseland, Indiana on the order of "100 females age 18 and over, there were 18.5 males". While I couldn't find a source mentioning reasons for the skew, based on our article and a map, the most likely reason would be it's a place where people attending Saint Mary's College (Indiana) and perhaps ofther places often live. It may be less obvious why the University of Notre Dame would cause a female skew, but the history and modern nature of the university may mean there's less place for them at more traditional places to stay, and also that they'd prefer all female residences, including ones which are also occupied by Saint Mary's College students. However, I'm not sure concentrating on places with such low populations, and potentially differing expectations from the OP is likely to help them. Notably also, as particularly illustrated by Notre Dame students, just because the place someone is living is mostly female doesn't mean they don't have regularly interactions with a large number of males in other places such as work or university/college (this is related to the point about low populations). Even in a case like Saint Mary's College it's resonable to assume most can regularly meet and interact with males if they want to, and in many cases it may not necessarily be those who happen to be living nearby, perhaps particularly not those who moved nearby to be living near them. Nil Einne (talk) 02:24, 11 October 2015 (UTC) See this recently published article on imbalanced demographics affecting the "modern dating crisis" in two marriage-oriented populations: Mormons and ultra-Orthdox Jews in the USA (Time magazine, August 24, 2015). Includes a map showing male:female ratios across the country. -- Deborahjay (talk) 11:36, 11 October 2015 (UTC) You need to move to Caracas. Source: Gregory's Girl, via Dweller's memory. Mind you, even if my memory is flaweless, that information is about 30 years out of date... and I'm not sure that a teenage character in a film is a [[WP:RS|. --Dweller (talk) 15:49, 12 October 2015 (UTC) Surf City, according to a song even more out of date. —Tamfang (talk) 03:17, 13 October 2015 (UTC) The General Thurber Inn in Rouses Point, New York Our Kelly Le Brock article claims her father owned "The General Thurber Inn, a three-star Michelin restaurant in Rouses Point, New York". That smelly very fishy to me, as there are so few 3-starred restaurants. This local newspaper story confirms someone named "Harold LeBrock" did own that restaurant some time before 1980. But that's it - certainly nothing about any Michelin stars. And, for BLP, that doesn't confirm that he's any relation to Kelly. The claim was added in this 7 September 2009 edit, with no additional source - the only source in that vicinity is a paywalled LA Times article. I can't find mention of the restaurant on the Michelin Guide website, but I don't know how they handle former star-holders. Can anyone with access to the relevant archives check to see a) if that restaurant ever had any stars and b) whether the cited LA Times story says anything to support the bio details as the article currently stands. Thanks. -- Finlay McWalterᚠTalk 14:49, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Where Did Wikileaks RSS go? RSS is the best way to let us know what's new and what's important. Your page at https://wikileaks.org/wiki/RSS appears to be dead; each of the three RSS links found leads to a 404 (missing) page message. I'd like be a more active citizen on these matters, but without RSS, it's just to cumbersome. Can this be fixed? CAOgdin75 (talk) 15:28, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Wikileaks is not affiliated with Wikipedia. This is Wikipedia. -- Finlay McWalterᚠTalk 15:53, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Blood-borne Pathogens in Mass Casualty Events? In many mass casualty events such as a suicide bombing, survivors and bystanders can often be seen helping those who are injured. Often, these first-responders are not wearing any gloves or personal protective equipment and there is usually a lot of blood all around. Generally, how safe is this for those first-responders? Are they at a high risk of contracting blood-borne pathogens like HIV or Hepatitis C? Acceptable (talk) 17:16, 10 October 2015 (UTC) First Responders from St. John Ambulance and fire departments assist paramedics during an exercise outside Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada If you were near to being fatally wounded in one of these events would you be happy to wait until someone found some latex gloves, by which time you had bled to death. It is human nature to help. As to the heath issues. Professional first responders have multiple indents to attend to each day. On a probability bases they may well contract something during their careers – so it makes sense that they take extra precautions. On a one off disaster, the chances of contacting something horrid, is on the humanitarian score – an acceptable and small risk. --Aspro (talk) 18:51, 10 October 2015 (UTC) First responders are definitely at high risk of contracting blood borne pathogens, whether during mass casualty events or during the normal course of their jobs. The United States Occupational Safety and Health Administration has published guidelines on first responder safety to minimize this risk [15]. Someguy1221 (talk) 19:13, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Risks are inherent in being a first responder and depend on the type of casualty event. Examples are civil unrest that may be on-going, a secondary explosion or delayed building collapse after a bomb attack, and contagion in specific, usually isolated cases. For example, in 2003 first responders were among the earliest victims of the previously unknown SARS virus, when they cared for patients affected with the virus. A professional Paramedic who serves in an emergency services (shown), such as a Certified First Responder in France receives training that covers hygiene and asepsis in bleeding control. Worldwide the top three single agent/disease killers are HIV/AIDS, TB and malaria. In times of epidemics everyone should be aware of warnings issued by national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Bestfaith (talk) 19:22, 10 October 2015 (UTC) These are listed in List of national public health agencies --Dweller (talk) 13:45, 12 October 2015 (UTC) TOM CHEEK - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Cheek - collapsed to save space Good Day - We have made several entries on this TOM CHEEK page recently as we knew and worked with him - However, one of your misinformed editors - Trut-h-urts man - has reverted back commonly known information, all of which may be found on the web in a number of places AND wikipedia stating it needs a source yet many areas of the TOM CHEEK entry do not have souces listed, which seems puzzling and not holding to this principle - The items in question are what appears on our page in this regard as well as the following, which we guarantee to be 100 % accurate and correct information - - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tom_Cheek&oldid=685064901 - - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tom_Cheek&oldid=prev&diff=685091441 - - http://www.pacificwar.org.au/Midway/TomCheek/Wildcat_V_Zero.html - - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tom_Cheek&oldid=685091524 - Additionally, this unknowing - Trut-h-urts man - person has changed name of TOM to THOMAS which is not at all correct as he was named after his father, who had exact same name, TOM FRED CHEEK, who we also met and knew - We would appreciate your speaking with this editor and asking him to kindly adjust the page back to adding in the removed new data as it better tells more of the real Tom Cheek story - We look forward to hearing back at your convenience at our email address, below, as we never can figure where to send or find anything in this repect on wikipedia which seems to be mostly internal email - Thank you very much for taking time to read this email - Sports Historian - Researcher - Biographer COLONEL77 (talk) 19:55, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Personal email deleted from OP post109.152.119.99 (talk) 20:37, 10 October 2015 (UTC) @COLONEL77: The place to discuss this is on the article talk page - Talk:Tom Cheek. It would appear that the conflict is about Mr Cheek's middle name. You'll need to provide a link to a reliable source for this information - your personal knowledge isn't, unfortunately, enough. Other editors need to be able to verify the information you want to add to the article. Tevildo (talk) 21:12, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Reference search How do you find good references for a school page. I can not find any "reputable" sources, only the school blog. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rtewqq (talk • contribs) 23:36, 10 October 2015 (UTC) In which country? I can probably help if it's the UK. Alansplodge (talk) 01:29, 11 October 2015 (UTC) The school may publish a year book. Also local newspapers are likely to have coverage and stories. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:57, 11 October 2015 (UTC) ... and OFSTED reports (available on-line) are useful for basic facts. Dbfirs 12:03, 11 October 2015 (UTC) October 11 Now, if the Yemen is out of goverment, and broken into 3 pieces, why does the Island of Socotra doesn´t become independent itself? I have heard a documentary about Socotra and I decided to visit this Island Unfortunately there is not even one flight to them. I have the opinion that Socotra is richer than Yemen , so I can´t understand, why this island does not quit their dependence to Yemen and start to grow as a new own country. Like Malta or Cape Verde--Hijodetenerife (talk) 05:23, 11 October 2015 (UTC) Benefits of his Independence: You could built Towers near the coasts, put Gun on the Towers and fire to Somalian pirates. (=less of Piracy) This would make this Island to become as safe as Tenerife, Malta or something like this. All the refugees what come from Somalia, Eritrea, Yemen and Oman to Europe could instead of escaping to Europe, now escaping to Socotra. --Hijodetenerife (talk) 05:48, 11 October 2015 (UTC) Our article reports that the main occupations of the Socotrans are fishing, animal husbandry and growing dates. I don't see how that can lead to the island being particularly prosperous. Also it has a very fragile ecosystem, and wouldn't be able to support large numbers of refugees. Rojomoke (talk) 09:39, 11 October 2015 (UTC) okay maybe this island could be than instead home of the pirates like Bahamas and Bermuda 1777? But anyway I am sure this island should be independent if it can regugess recruit or not- At the moment there is no goverment if an arab would come there and became the next dictator of this Island, the Yemen or Saudis wouldn´t even care as long as I let being the Sharia for regular rules, I suppose.-Hijodetenerife (talk) 10:35, 11 October 2015 (UTC) This is not the place to debate proposals for becoming the dictator of an island of pirates. Y si quieres jugar en contribuyente, mejor que primero aprendas defenderte en buen Inglés. μηδείς (talk) 17:51, 11 October 2015 (UTC) Maybe not the place for a debate (although there are long debates here if the right subject comes up) But your English, although not perfect, is easily understood and serves well enough for this situation. Sigues adelante y ignoras las gillipollas. Richard Avery (talk) 06:30, 12 October 2015 (UTC) Why haven´t had yet one of this 40.000 citizen in this island the idea to built an own goverment? Yemen is not supporting this Island as much as like the Kingdom Denmark does support and takes care with Faröer or Greenland. There is no benefit for this Island to be Part of the poor Yemen. or is there one? --Hijodetenerife (talk) 07:59, 12 October 2015 (UTC) Unilateral declarations of independence tend to result in wars. Maybe no Socotrans (or at least none with sizable political influence) feel that the costs of a possible war for independence outweigh the possible benefits. It is true that Yemen is experiencing political instability at the moment, and these kinds of things can lead to the breakup of states. But, the regional powers such as Saudi Arabia are taking quite an interest in what is going on, as they don't want the instability to spread, and they don't want possibly hostile governments to emerge nearby. I have the feeling they would not be fans of Socotran independence, especially given its strategic location near the Gulf of Aden. It would provide a good platform for a hostile power to disrupt shipping. --71.119.131.184 (talk) 10:00, 12 October 2015 (UTC) alright I see but starting from this island new democracies could help to solve the problems there with the neighbor countries. And Al-Kaida is yet in Jemen with other rebells, if no one "save" this Island, they will also come to this Island.. --Hijodetenerife (talk) 19:20, 13 October 2015 (UTC) Tomato red How is tomato red as seen in the bullet of the 1 (New York City Subway service) made with RGB?—Eat me, I'm an azuki (talk · contribs · email) 10:20, 11 October 2015 (UTC) That SVG file uses #ee352e for the circle colour. -- Finlay McWalterᚠTalk 10:28, 11 October 2015 (UTC) Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Statistics Screenshot of {{Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Statistics}} Am I wrong, or is the Template:AbQ Pie showing bullshit (all pie slices with same size)?--Kopiersperre (talk) 17:50, 11 October 2015 (UTC) The pie chart template doesn't have the topic= parameter set, so it's showing the default presentation for invalid/empty data. The numbers on the chart match the slice sizes, but they don't match the numbers in the (presumably accurate) table. This question would probably be better on the article talk page. Tevildo (talk) 18:07, 11 October 2015 (UTC) October 13 White and bluer crystals in my water http://imgur.com/a/UXzGH While trying to solve other problems in my tap, I unscrewed the tip and this was in the mesh filter. Does anyone know what it is? If it was all white I'd assume it was calcium carbonate, but I'm a bit stumped on the blue. And can anything be done to prevent it? This buildup happened over the course of about a week. Seems like an awful lot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.218.94 (talk) 15:43, 13 October 2015 (UTC) See Copper(II) sulfate and an explanation here.--TMCk (talk) 16:16, 13 October 2015 (UTC) Thanks. Now we just need to figure out who to talk to about this. The blue suggests you have some copper plumbing. Yet that is not the end to the problem. This should not occur. If you have a very old copper plumbing system with a copper immersion cylinder, it might just be sludge on the bottom allowing stagnate water to devolve the copper. Or you may have a badly installed water softener or an electrical leakage (from say an immersion heater)to leach copper into the system. Check you eyes in a mirror for Copper toxicity. You are doing the right thing in not ignoring this blue peril. Also, if you have friend that is an qualified electrician, have him use a suitable meter to check that the plumbing system is not picking up stray currents. If that fails check with your local environmental health department at your town hall.--Aspro (talk) 16:23, 13 October 2015 (UTC) I don't know how old the system itself is, but we just started noticing this when we had a new kitchen installed. No idea if it happened before. 82.4.218.94 (talk) 17:56, 13 October 2015 (UTC) why does the pie bond alone exist in C2 Shahjad ansari (talk) 17:19, 13 October 2015 (UTC) Assuming you mean pi bonds in Diatomic carbon, there are many models of C2. Some, using either hybridization theory or molecular orbital theory predicts a double bond. Whether such double bonds are sigma + pi or two pi bonds really depends on how you define those terms. Molecular Orbital Theory predicts two pi bonds, see this molecular orbital diagram. Hybridization theory (and valence bond theory), would predict a sigma and a pi bond; as diatomic carbon would be a tetra-radical (chemistry) with a double bond between the carbons; each carbon would have sp2 hybridization. Thus, there would be orbital overlap between the sp2 orbitals and between unhybridized p orbitals. sp2-sp2 overlap is a sigma-type bond, while p-p overlap is a pi bond. So, really when asking about the bonding in C2, you need to specify "according to which theory..." Experimental evidence indicates that it's quite likely a double bond; bond dissociation energy data indicates it's quite likely a double bond experimentally, (though some more recent experiments indicate that it may be a rare quadruple bond, but those results are in dispute). So, there's your answer: according to VBT, it should be a sigma and a pi, and according to MOT, it should be two pi bonds. --Jayron32 17:36, 13 October 2015 (UTC) You had the title and signature in the wrong place. I swapped them. StuRat (talk) 17:39, 13 October 2015 (UTC)