Wikipedia:Help desk

Welcome—ask questions about how to use or edit Wikipedia! (Am I in the right place?)

• For other types of questions, use the search box, see the reference desk or Help:Contents. If you have comments about a specific article, use that article's talk page.
• Do not provide your email address or any other contact information. Answers will be provided on this page only.
• If your question is about a Wikipedia article, draft article, or other page on Wikipedia, tell us what it is!
• Check back on this page to see if your question has been answered.
• For real-time help, use our IRC help channel, #wikipedia-en-help.
• New editors may prefer the Teahouse, a help area for beginners (but please don't ask in both places).

Ask a question

October 17

the ginger man plot

Hi, There is a good plot summary of this book by a Tom Quinn on Amazon Reviews. He probably wouldn't mind writing a similar plot for you. g 173.191.64.185 (talk) 02:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

That's an interesting thought. Although I see the review, I don't see a way to contact him. GoingBatty (talk) 14:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Humble Request for An Article About me on Wikipedia : Dr Punit Sethi

Sir, Please help me in opening my Profile Page on Wikipedia. I have sound credentials; e.g:- Dr Punit Sethi was also declared as an expert of Facebook in 2011

Dr Punit Sethi was also declared as an expert of Facebook in 2011 ..

MRICS

https://www.rics.org/networking/find-a-member.html?firstname=PUNIT&lastname=SETHI&town=NOIDA&country=India&member_grade=(MRICS)&expert_witness=&accrediation=&page=1

https://www.rics.org/member-detail-page.html#/0870114

Facebook Expert

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/google-declares-indian-most-popular-facebook-expert/

Fiji

https://www.fbcnews.com.fj/news/new-ceo-for-housing-authority-of-fiji/

https://fijivillage.com/news/Bala-to-officiate-at-Davuilevu-Housing-Subdivision-groundbreaking-ceremony-rsk925

https://www.facebook.com/FijianGovernment/photos/a.1728782957154632.1073745074.207532522613024/1728783697154558/

https://fijisun.com.fj/2017/06/20/housing-authority-welcomes-new-ceo/

Hungama Ishq Ka Pyaada

https://www.hungama.com/tv-show/ishq-ka-pyaada/104060206/

TOI Baby Feeding Room https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/baby-feeding-room-facilities-for-disabled-at-isbt/articleshow/87836934.cms

Dr Punit Sethi was also declared as an expert of Facebook in 2011 .. https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/google-declares-indian-most-popular-facebook-expert/ As an executive with infrastructure expertise with the Ministry of Transport, Government of Delhi- Dr Punit Sethi achieved success during COVIC duties of transporting migrant labors from Delhi especially at Anand Vihar ISBT success. Dr Sethi also got a Baby Feeding Room at Sarai Kale Khan ISBT first in Delhi. The event was well covered by media. Time of India link... https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/baby-feeding-room-facilities-for-disabled-at-isbt/articleshow/87836934.cms

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Baby_Feeding_Room_at_SKK_ISBT_New_Delhi_India_Organized_by_Dr_Punit_Sethi.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dr_Punit_Sethi_arrived_as_CEO_of_Housing_Authority_of_Fiji_in_June_2017.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dr_Punit_Sethi_LSCM.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dr_Punit_Sethi_Photograph.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IBBI_Valuer_Punit_Sethi.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:International_Business_by_Dr_Punit_Sethi.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_book_on_International_Business_by_Dr_Punit_Sethi.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jaypee_Wish_Town_Community_Magazine_Samvada_writing_about_Dr_Punit_Sethi.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jaypee_Wish_Town_Community_Magazine_Samvada_writing_about_Dr_Punit_Sethi_December_2021.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Night_briefing_by_Dr_Punit_Sethi_at_Anand_Vihar_ISBT_New_Delhi_during_Covid_in_April_2021.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dr_Punit_Sethi_With_Honble_Prime_Minister_of_Fiji_in_2017.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dr_Punit_Sethi_with_Underprivileged_Children_of_Noida.jpg

Sir, Please see these few links and help me in creating my Profile Page.

Regards, Dr Punit Sethi MRICS Engineer Doctor (talk) 04:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

@Engineer Doctor: Dr. Sethi, the Help desk is a place to ask questions about how you can use Wikipedia. If you're still interested in having someone write an article after reading WP:AUTO and Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing, you can try using WP:Requested articles. However, there is no guarantee that any volunteer Wikipedia editor will choose to write an article about you. GoingBatty (talk) 14:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not contain "profiles" as the word is usually understood. It contains articles about notable subjects, including people. Some ways in which these are different from profiles are:

• They are not controlled by the subject, and preferably not written by the subject
• They are based not on what the subject says or wants to say, but on what independent commentators have written about the subject in reliable sources.
• They may contain material which the subject does not want seen, as long as it has been reliably published. Conversely, there may be material which the subject would very much like to be seen but which may not go in the article because it has not been reliably and independently published.

ColinFine (talk) 15:58, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

To be frank, when experienced Wikipedia editors read that somebody is asking for a "profile page", the answer is highly likely to be "no", because the way the question is phrased reveals a deep misunderstanding of the purpose of this encyclopedia. In this specific case, claims of somebody being a Facebook "expert" is in no way an indicator of notability, which is the basic requirement for eligibility for a Wikipedia biography. Cullen328 (talk) 07:23, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Creating an Article

How do you create an article on Wikipedia Oxfordholmes (talk) 05:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Oxfordholmes, you can create your article using Article Wizard. Please see WP:YFA. Regards. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 05:28, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Oxfordholmes. Wikipedia is the encyclopaedia that anyone can edit, but in my experience, people who try to create an article before they have learnt how Wikipedia works usually have a miserable and frustrating time: your attempts are unlikely to be successful, and you may have difficulty understanding why.

My advice to new editors is always to spend a few weeks or months learning about Wikipedia by making improvements to existing articles before even trying it. Start with copyediting and correcting errors (and be prepared even there to have some of your changes reverted - see WP:BRD) and then graduate to what is by far the most important part of editing Wikipedia, which is finding sources for unsourced information in articles, and learning how to cite them. When you can do that, you will be ready to try writing a new article. ColinFine (talk) 16:07, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I moved the draft to the main article, is this right?

I just moved Mukimukimanmansu article from draft to main article. Since it has more than three reliable sources, and it has a record of major awards nominations, this is the right thing to do, but this is my first time doing this (Move from draft to main space), so I'd like to ask if I should finish here or fix it more. The article is strange so..... 올해의수상자 (talk) 05:17, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi @올해의수상자. As the original submitter of the draft via the Articles for Creation process, you've sort of circumvented the process by moving it to mainspace yourself and we do discourage this.

The test for articles about musicians or bands is at WP:NMUSIC. I think the article just about passes the first criteria, so I think it can stay in mainspace. I have done some minor copyediting. Qcne (talk) 08:59, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you @Qcne. In fact, I wasn't the first to make this draft, but I thought this draft was right so I made some revisions and submitted it, but no one responded, so I found a way to process the draft and moved on. Anyway but, I revised the last one and I submitted it, so I was right to be involved. Of course I'm not a new user, I've edited a lot of articles. But I think I'm still learning about Wikipedia, and I think I learned another thing today :)

But if you don't mind, there is an article that I submitted a draft, may I ask to you to review it? I submitted it a long time ago, but no one responded. 올해의수상자 (talk) 11:15, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Ah, I'm sorry, you're right - I didn't scroll down in the history long enough to see you weren't the original submitter. What is the link to your other draft? Qcne (talk) 11:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

That's okay! The draft is probably old, and the history might be a bit long, so it could be happen. And thank you for saying that you will review my draft more :)

I have three drafts, of which I think Draft:Dabda (band) and Draft: Green Flame Boys may be in the main space because I think there are enough reliable sources.

And actually, I have another drafts Draft:Wapddi as well, but this one, I'm not sure. (though of course I pressed submission....lol) Two sources are certainly reliable, but I'm not sure this will prove his notability enough. 올해의수상자 (talk) 11:56, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks- I will take a look at all three and get back to you sometime today. Qcne (talk) 12:07, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Link to table row in VE

Is there an option to link a specific table row from Visual Editor itself. I can read in help:tables its possible in code edditor by placing on the beggining of the row ID, but how do I do that in Visual Editor? Juandev (talk) 06:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

@Juandev: I don't think VisualEditor can place id's. You could instead add {{anchor}} in the first cell. It has a similar but not identical effect. If it's a tall cell with vertically centered content then links to the anchor will go to where the content starts and not the top of the cell. I don't know how it compares to a row id in screen readers. A cell anchor may be more easily deleted by accident than a row id. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:34, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Thx. Juandev (talk) 05:31, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

My edit to "Winds aloft" keeps getting reverted...

my edit that the winds aloft of the NWS being officially discontinued has been revoked multiple times by Materialscientist... I am unable to contact them directly. I know this change is correct as I am a pilot who was present at the discontinuance of it today, when they made the new website live. There is not article about it's discontinuance as the NWS only mentioned it in a reply to a Facebook user... I have been told my edits are vandalism... Black33beard (talk) 06:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Hey Black33beard and welcome to Wikipedia. While it may seem unfair, any material added to Wikipedia must have been published previously by a reliable source. This is to make sure everything is as accurate as possible, to protect us as editors, and to ensure our readers are getting accurate information. We also have no way of confirming you are a pilot (PLEASE DO NOT POST PERSONAL INFO TO PROVE SO!). While I might not label your edits as vandalism, I can see why there were reverted. I also suggest talking to Materialscientist. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 07:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Asked and answered at the Teahouse. Tollens (talk) 07:06, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

How to ask for help from a wikiproject

I am in a content dispute where we've (sort-of) agreed that it would be helpful to get clarification of how to interpret policy from a wikiproject - in this case Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism who might be familiar with the type of source material we're discussing and how it's generally treated. My issue is I don't really know how to ask for help from editors on a wikiproject. I'd appreciate any guidance on this! Samuelshraga (talk) 06:30, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

@Samuelshraga: To attract the attention of editors from a specific WikiProject, post a neutral message at the WikiProject's talk page (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism) and link to the relevant discussion. ––FormalDude (talk) 07:12, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Samuelshraga (talk) 08:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Tidying up this page

I would like to clean up this page. I am a new Wikipedia editor and have a connection to the subject of the page. The page was generously started by the Women in Red Project and Kay tried to add a photo and some extra details. This was obviously a mistake as it now has lots of warnings about Close Connection of the author. It rather spoils the effort they generously made.

Is it possible for me to help her to make this page clearer, add a photo and to tidy up all of the alerts? How?

If undoing her changes and reverting to the previous state of page is the best plan, how can I suggest/do that?

Thanks Kudos9482 (talk) 06:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

You could ask for assistance at WP:COIN and/or at the article's talk page. I went ahead and removed some of the tags as I don't see that they apply anymore. ––FormalDude (talk) 06:50, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Referencing errors on University of Houston System

Reference help requested. I have used reFill tool to fix bare URLs but instead it has created a generic error Thanks, Ittniguto (talk) 11:47, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Ittniguto, we read, for example, Cite error: The named reference UHV Progress Card was invoked but never defined (see the help page). Suppose you want to cite a given source any number of times, and, for editing purposes, you want to name it "UHV Progress Card". Then in any one place where you want to cite it, you write <ref name="UHV Progress Card">full details (author(s), title, etc) here</ref> (thereby "defining" and using it); and in each of the other two, you write simply <ref name="UHV Progress Card" /> (thereby "invoking" it). -- Hoary (talk) 13:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the help I really appreciate it.Ittniguto (talk) 15:48, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Live time

On my talk page, I use a template to show the real time in my timezone. Is there a way to make the page automatically purge once it is opened to show what time it is?

Otherwise, is there any other way to display the live time that updates accordingly?

Thanks, Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 13:26, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

@Cocobb8: This is not possible. Pages are cached for efficiency reasons with no override option. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:40, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I suppose that makes sense! Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 13:47, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Does this article meet notability?

Hello, so I'm considering AfDing an article, but I'm not sure whether it meets WP:GNG. On the one hand, it is a pretty new route with not much in-depth coverage, but on the other hand, it has been renumbered and had significant cuts in its route. Since this would be my first AfD, I want to ask for some advice from the community whether this meets WP:GNG. Thank you, —Matr1x-101 _{(Ping me when replying)} {_{user page} ^{(@ commons)} - _talk} 14:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Looking at the sourcing in the article, I think so.

There are 7 sources cited. Source 1 does not count towards notability as it is not independant. Source 2 appears to constitute significant coverage from MyLondon, which seems to be a reliable source. Source 3 does not seem to constitute significant coverage. Source 4 appears to constitute significant coverage from Inside Corydon, which while local, is still significant coverage. I stopped my in depth analysis there, but based on the first 4 of the 7 sources cited in the article, I would not take it to AFD and would expect the article to be kept if someone did. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 17:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the in-depth process! —Matr1x-101 _{(Ping me when replying)} {_{user page} ^{(@ commons)} - _talk} 20:13, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Literature

When did Madame Bovary made into a film 192.226.252.29 (talk) 16:00, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the help desk. This page is for questions related to editing the English Wikipedia. Several films have been made based on Flaubert's novel and can be found at our article on it. In the future, the reference desk should be used for general knowledge questions. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)^{My Talk Page} 16:03, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Airline destinations removed

Hi there, I observed that a group of users seemingly made a decision on their own to begin removing airline destination pages en-masse, without clear reasoning as to why or much of a warning. I wanted to see if I could get more information on that - those pages were a resource I made use of regularly and having them removed is hugely detrimental to me. Viero223 (talk) 16:28, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

The basic reason is Wikipedia is not a directory, more discussion here. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

@Viero223, see this discussion. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

@Viero223 See and join in the discussion at the village pump. I really don't think they should be removed while discussion is ongoing. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:37, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Do we have a template for ‘topic not in linked article’?

Example: International maritime signal flags#Letter flags (with ICS meaning) links to [[Magnetic declination|degrees magnetic]], but “degrees magnetic” is not explained in the article Magnetic declination.

I browsed categories such as Category:Wikipedia maintenance templates, Category:Internal link maintenance templates, as well as the templates listed at Template:Not verified in body, but none seems to fit. ◅ Sebastian 18:06, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Maybe the International maritime signal flags article would be best served by changing the text in question from "Course in [[Magnetic declination|degrees magnetic]]" to "[[Magnetic declination|Magnetic bearing]]" or something similar. Folly Mox (talk) 20:00, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Good idea for that article; I'll do that there. However, my general question still remains: Do we have a template for such cases? ◅ Sebastian 20:26, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't think we do, after having done what I consider to be a reasonably thorough search of the Template: namespace. Mostly in such cases I feel like we are supposed to trust ourselves enough to change the link target, change the link text, or remove the link. As a follow up to the initial example, I've learnt that Magnetic bearing is a mechanical thing like a ball bearing, and won't be a good two words to pipe into the link Magnetic declination. I'm also wondering if Magnetic declination is really the best target for the link, or if Bearing (angle)#Absolute would be better. I don't really know anything about navigation, or much about magnetism, or what the International maritime signal flags are specified as conveying in nautical terms. Folly Mox (talk) 20:44, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

There are some cases where the link is to the right place, but the target article doesn't deal with the topic at hand, and I don't have the ability to update the target article. What one really wants in those cases is some way to flag it at the target article, where someone who is able to fix it is more likely to look... Furius (talk) 20:54, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Interesting point. Do you think, then, we need a template for that application? ◅ Sebastian 21:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I've actually just located Template:mnl, which outputs:. It has zero transclusions in mainspace and one in talkspace, but it's very close to what you're suggesting.

As to flagging something like this on the target article, a talk page message might not be the worst idea, if a bit old fashioned. As seen in this discussion, specialist knowledge provided by User:Martin of Sheffield was required to suss this issue, and people with the correct topic area expertise are likely to be the kinds of people watching the talk page. Folly Mox (talk) 22:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

a talk page message might not be the worst idea - i thought so, and did that in the target article's talk page where someone who is able to fix it is more likely to look, as Furius suggested. But when nobody replied in three years, i thought an inline template might draw more attention, all the while informing readers so they wouldn't waste time searching for something that isn't there. ◅ Sebastian 05:49, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Well I guess a talk page message might sometimes be the worst idea. Should have done my research before suggesting that course of action 🙃 — Folly Mox — continues after insertion below

No worries, I can think of even worse ideas! 😛 ◅ Sebastian 21:13, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Three years, and the page has like 130 watchers and the primary contributor has been consistently active since 2019.

I feel like I heard somewhere that Growth Team intend to roll out the links structured task on en.wp by the end of the year. Maybe soon we'll be able to delink these bad pipes and have the built-in AI suggest a better target for us.

Till then, we could always just make a template. It's probably pretty easy to make, and seems like it would generate an easy backlog for people to hop on. Folly Mox (talk) 06:08, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Nice, that's just what I had in mind. What shall we call our baby? Just “not there”? (I'm avoiding the word “article” since conceivably one might also use the template for other targets, in which case the template could take a parameter with the default value “article”.) That said, another concern might be the objection raised by Martin of Sheffield below: One might say that the topic is covered, missing the point of the maintenance note that it's not apparent. To counter that, maybe we should write “term” instead of “topic”. ◅ Sebastian 21:13, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Hm, for this maintenance tag maybe? That gets across both the case where a better article could be the link target (expanding the coverage from piped links to all internal links) as well as the case where the topic so linked is unexplained or poorly explained at the target article, avoiding pronouncements such as "Target" may not be immediately understood by all readers upon initial viewing, though, and the tag could also be mistaken as a request for general improvements at the target article, but placed on a separate page for some reason. Maybe ? or ? Folly Mox (talk) 08:56, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your three improvement suggestions. I'll go with “Template:Improve target”, so let's continue the discussion at Template talk:Improve target. I also added a hover text to include your considerations. ◅ Sebastian 10:06, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Thanks for checking. Yes, your reason why we don't have one makes sense; that's what I've done for many years. I just wasn't sure it did mean “magnetic bearing” until you pointed that out. Part of why I asked here was that I had thought of creating such a template, but I now realize it's probably not needed often enough.

Thanks also for pointing out the other meaning of “magnetic bearing”. No worries, I used an anchor instead. But I also will add a hatnote to the magnetic bearing article.

As for your last point, it seems to me it's good as it is, since “absolute bearing” does not mean the same; it still can be magnetic or not. ◅ Sebastian 21:03, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Actually Magnetic declination does explain degrees magnetic, but not very clearly unless you already know the theory. See the sections "Non-adjustable compasses" and "Navigation". Bearing (angle)#Absolute has: "If the north used as reference is the true geographical north then the bearing is a true bearing whereas if the reference used is magnetic north then the bearing is a magnetic bearing" which is also not very clear unless you already have an idea about the subject.

FYI, the magnetic poles do not correspond directly with the geographic poles, for instance in 2020 the north magnetic pole was at 86.494°N 162.867°E. What this means is that a compass will point to somewhere other than the true north pole, the amount varies depending upon where you are and also with time. There are also local anomalies (for example caused by deposits of iron ore) which have to be taken into account. However a map or chart should give the variance or declination at a given date, and the rate of change. As a (fictional) example "variance 2°W (2020) decreasing annually by 1°" means that in 2023 the variance in that location would be 1°E. It's important to know which you are talking about, for instance (using the example above) 183° true is 182° magnetic, hence the use of the Alpha flag (true) and Charlie (magnetic). HTH, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Have a look at Heading (navigation) which gives a better description of true vs magnetic. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

October 18

Noah's Flood

Hi there there's false info on Noah's Flood. It states "there's no scientific evidence for a global flood." That's not true. There is a ton of scientific evidence that prove that it happened. Please do your research before you boldly state false info.

Noah's Ark 2601:1C0:8380:B150:3FB9:BC87:F2AB:9EEA (talk) 01:05, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Please raise your concerns about that article on its talk page, Talk:Noah's Ark, along with your reliable sources to support your claims. 331dot (talk) 01:18, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Also, please do not accuse us volunteers at the help desk of inserting "false information" as most of us here may not have edited the article even once. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 01:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

no. sorry. we won't pander to christianity. ltbdl (talk) 10:55, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

we won't pander to christianity small nitpick: Noah’s story (ark, flood, divine retribution etc.) is considered canon by all Abrahamic religions (which includes Jews and Muslims in addition to Christians). Of course, flood myths exist in many (all?) cultures. And there is scientific evidence of many past large floods (though not world-covered-by-water-scale floods, which would cause problems of conservation of mass etc.). Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 13:51, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

British Film Institute:

• "We have removed pages about films, TV programmes, people and companies from the BFI website. You can now find this information in our Collections database." at site:www2.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/
• Sorry, there's a problem. The site is still in development, and changes regularly, so please try again later if this error persists. Collections Search | BFI | British Film Institute
• Template:BFI

.... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 01:29, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I do not understand what you are trying to ask here. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 02:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

{{BFI}} is marked as depreciated and there is a deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2023_October_16#BFI_templates_and_categories RudolfRed (talk) 03:30, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

wikipedia ?

When I accessed a Wikipedia article from Google,but the PDF download started without permission and I was logged out. So, I think it's probably a fake site. What should I do ? I made a memo of the that url, but I don't would not like to publish this, because it starts downloading the PDF without permission. So I would like to contact to Wikipedia by e-mail, but I don't know how to contact. thanks ! SilverMatsu (talk) 05:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

@Silvermatsu: The correct URL of every page on the English Wikipedia starts with en.wikipedia.org. Another URL could be a legitimate mirror site or a fake site. GoingBatty (talk) 05:47, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. When I checked that URL, the "org" part was a other characters, so it seems like a mirror or fake site. --SilverMatsu (talk) 06:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

By the way, should I change my password ? I'm anxious because the download of the pdf file started without permission. --SilverMatsu (talk) 06:46, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

@Silvermatsu: I don't see how changing your Wikipedia password would prevent your browser from automatically downloading a PDF from another site. GoingBatty (talk) 15:29, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

@Silvermatsu: Websites can request an automatic PDF download on a link and most browsers with default settings will probably comply. It's not a sign of a security hole in your computer. If you were not at a real Wikimedia site but an external mirror or imitator then you are meant to be logged out. You should only be worried if you tried to log in there and gave them your password. In that case I would certainly change password. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:47, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

@GoingBatty and PrimeHunter: Thank you for your reply. Thanks to you, I have calmed down. There was a login button similar to Wikipedia, but I didn't click it because it automatically started downloading a PDF file with a title written in characters similar to Cyrillic. Also, it was the first time I saw a domain name, and it was "su". --SilverMatsu (talk) 04:13, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

There was an article on wikipedia about su (country code top-level domain). --SilverMatsu (talk) 16:21, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Questions about a music score: layout, and source/original content issues

I added a score to Weela Weela Walya but the line break on the first line is one beat too early and I can't see why. I was expecting to get something like this result. Also the first line is indented; I would prefer it not to be.

I think I need some specialist help here, someone that's familiar with ABC notation and with the <score>...</score> element in wikitext.

Also, more generally, maybe there's a problem with this score as it's unsourced. Would it be okay if I were to put it on my blog, and then cite that? I'm not an academic, nor a renowned musician nor scholar, so maybe that's not the right sort of source. I'm not aware of any other place to put this score; it seems to be a bit outside the scope of eg thesession.org.

What's the general policy about simple scores for simple tunes? I don't think copyright applies here as it's a folk tune. GoPlayerJuggler (talk) 09:01, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

@GoPlayerJuggler: Hi there! If your technical issues aren't resolved by looking at Help:Score, then I suggest asking for assistance at Help talk:Score. Publishing the score on your own blog and then using that as a Wikipedia source isn't the right process. Instead WP:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT by referencing where you found the score. GoingBatty (talk) 15:28, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer. I wrote the score! GoPlayerJuggler (talk) 15:51, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps I should have mentioned your name @GoingBatty in my reply above? I don't know.

I wrote the score, after first checking if there was a score available elsewhere. I didn't find any - free or not. My score is not plagiarised. GoPlayerJuggler (talk) 15:59, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

@GoPlayerJuggler: I'm not accusing you of plagiarism. You mentioned the issue that the score you added to Wikipedia is unsourced, and suggested that you provide a reference to a published source for the score you added. GoingBatty (talk) 16:19, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

@GoingBatty I didn't accuse you of accusing me of plagiarism! :)

My question is, is there an issue with including unsourced material like this (i.e. my original score)? I thought everything here had to have a source. Perhaps that is not the case? GoPlayerJuggler (talk) 16:42, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

@GoPlayerJuggler: Trying a third time: Yes, there is an issue with including unsourced material. Please provide a reliable published source for the score. GoingBatty (talk) 16:45, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @GoingBatty. As there is none (a reliable published source) that I'm aware of, I will remove the score from that entry. GoPlayerJuggler (talk) 16:56, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Link preview vandalism

It appears there is ongoing vandalism of preview links as quite a few show a plate covered in vomit. 158.36.93.227 (talk) 13:49, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Image vandalism is rather common. Can you give at least one example, so someone can attempt to track down the issue? 57.140.16.12 (talk) 13:58, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#image displayed on the Labour Party (UK) page preview. The template vandalism has been reverted and the responsible account blocked. It may take a while for the cache to catch up. Deor (talk) 13:59, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Young editors

I often wish to welcome obviously younger editors but there doesn't seem to be an appropriate welcome template? I can send them to Wikipedia:Guidance for younger editors but wonder if there is something else I am missing? Theroadislong (talk) 20:33, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't think there is one, specifically. Template:Welcome emoji might be a good starting point for one. 57.140.16.12 (talk) 21:00, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

If one were to be created (I'm up for it if no-one else is), I'd think including a link to WP:TWA might be a good idea. It'd probably be engaging enough for younger editors and more likely to teach them how to edit than reading policies. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)^{My Talk Page}

Good idea, I was also concerned about the amount of personal information that some younger editors disclose, (age, location etc) so perhaps some warnings against that too? Theroadislong (talk) 21:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I'll start working on a mock-up at User:Novo Tape/Welcome Young; feel free to edit it. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)^{My Talk Page} 21:59, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I've made the first draft, but I'm not sure what emoji to put for the bullet point about requesting oversight on private information. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)^{My Talk Page} 22:16, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

@Novo Tape: The template looks great! There have been reports of bugginess in WP:TWA in the past. Have they been resolved, or are they not significant, or are they significant enough that it might turn off new editors? GoingBatty (talk) 02:46, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

GoingBatty, the biggest problem that I have heard of is that the WP:TWA training game only works in the source editor, not in the visual editor or various apps. Therefore, recommending it to new editors without elaborate explanations often leads to frustration for the very new editors that TWA was intended to help. Cullen328 (talk) 07:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much Novo Tape that is exactly what I was hoping for, well done! Theroadislong (talk) 07:11, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Got it. I'll replace it with another tutorial as soon as I'm on a laptop as kids/teens are likely to be the ones most easily frustrated. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)^{My Talk Page} 15:19, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

October 19

Great Reality TV Swindle

Great Reality TV Swindle is tagged Category:Good articles but is a bad article, how to re-evaluate? .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 03:09, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello, 0mtwb9gd5wx. That article was promoted to Good article status 12 years ago. Perhaps it no longer complies. You can read the assessment at Talk: Great Reality TV Swindle. Please read Wikipedia:Good article reassessment for your options going forward. Cullen328 (talk) 06:55, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

[Edit Conflict} Have you read the Project page Wikipedia:Good articles to understand thoroughly what the criteria of a Good article are (and how to start a Reassessment), and have you read the detailed assessment on the article's Talk page? (Just checking.)

If so, and you still think the assessment is wrong, you should open a new Section on the Talk page, set out why you think it's wrong, and participate in the ensuing discussion. Perhaps the faults you perceive can be easily addressed without going through a Reassessment. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 5.68.252.202 (talk) 07:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Emperor's portrait painting

Does painting of emperor's portrait freely licensed? I posted the portrait of Emperor An of Han on Vietnamese Wikipedia as a non-free file. ThomasDracoLucitor (talk) 09:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Is that portrait [1] from a historical source or a modern depiction by a netizen? If the latter, I don't think it should be used on any WP. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:46, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

A number of similar images were added to commons by c:User:Flag Creator, under pd licensing, but with the source invariably some story on a website, mostly deadlinked. They look like scans from like a children's illustrated guide to the Han dynasty, and I note the clearly modern similar image from one such arbitrary website story. Who knows whose artistic vision this is. For the non-specialists, the "similar image" linked not only looks nothing like premodern Chinese portraiture in style, but the words at the top are typeset in a modern typeface, and reverse order to how they would have been presented in a legitimate pd-old source, although it does appear to be a derivative work, so doesn't tell us much on its own.

Question for the team here: is there a template or infobox parameter "doesn't need image" that can be applied to articles about topics in early history? In addition to stuff like this, I've recently reverted someone adding a CG render of the word "周" to some king, as if that were an improvement over no image at all. Folly Mox (talk) 12:40, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't know of any such template, and sometimes there is a statue or something, like Arminius. It's not how he looked, but it's how he's been depicted. By someone with enough money to commission a statue. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:19, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I wrote a request+suggestion but it disappeared

I just wrote a suggestion on talk page of Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion and it vanished I searched in archives its nowhere. Is improvement to this article limited to some editors. I thought talk page is open so that everyone can discuss and improve. My suggestion is actually would not be contested its about a spelling mistake. Ankraj giri (talk) 14:17, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

@Ankraj giri, Talk:Al-Ahli_Arab_Hospital_explosion#Spelling_mistake_and_Image_suggestion did post. It's a long talk page, perhaps you were looking for it in the wrong place? Valereee (talk) 14:26, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks!! But I really couldn't find it earlier I also tried page find(browser tool) and search box in page(it was not meant for that i learned now) Ankraj giri (talk) 14:31, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

@Ankraj giri, if you look at your own contributions page it can help with that. Valereee (talk) 14:35, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks a lot for your help. Ankraj giri (talk) 14:46, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

update logo

Updating a logo is ridiculously cumbersome. how can we get this done easier? 207.224.189.186 (talk) 15:19, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Assuming it's for an existing WP-article (not draft), it's not that difficult, once you've done it 2-3 times. Possibly one has to be WP:REGISTERED, I'm not sure. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:52, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

If you have some kind of relationship to the logo-wielders, please review and follow WP:COI and/or WP:PAID. As an IP editor, you'd need to have someone upload the logo for you under an appropriate license (you can use WP:Files for upload to make such a request). 57.140.16.27 (talk) 16:54, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Picture change request

FYI

 – Moved and given a section title by Tenryuu.

Hello there, I am new here, just would like to ask, is it any way to change this picture on me? It’s an 15 years old picture, I have several other personal reason why I would like to change this picture. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bence_Fliegauf.jpg#mw-jump-to-license What is the shortest way to change the picture above to this one?

https://cultura.hu/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/fliegauf-bence-k.jpg

Thank you for your time! Cheers, Bence Fliegauf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1110:22C:583E:1C75:90C1:ED55:AEA1 (talk) 07:19, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Benedek Fliegauf - very poorly sourced BLP - 57.140.16.27 (talk) 17:28, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• create a login and use it.
• take a selfie. That way, you are the photographer and you own the copyright and can claim the image as "own work".
• use the upload wizard to create a new file on Commons.
• update articles that use the old image to instead use the new image.

-Arch dude (talk) 17:21, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP 2A00:1110:22C:583E:1C75:90C1:ED55:AEA1. Just going to add that before you try replacing any photos (even after following the steps laid out above by Arch dude), you might want to consider creating an WP:ACCOUNT and following the advice given in WP:DECLARECOI so that other users don't simply mistake you for some random IP account randomly changing the main infobox photo of an article. I also suggest that you try and make the photo as encyclopedic looking as possible because anything too wild might end up being removed by another editor. Photos are like text content in the sense that they too are subject to WP:CONSENSUS and disagreements over them will need to be resolved through article talk page discussion per WP:DR. A simple headshot showing how you look today should be more than sufficient. In addition, you should upload the file to Wikimedia Commons (see c:COM:UPLOAD and c:COM:L for more details on that) since that makes it easier for others to reuse the photo. You should also make sure you leave a clearly worded edit summary explaining that it's you adding the photo and why you're adding it when you actually add the photo to the article. The more transparent you're about things, then less likely you're going to find yourself running into problems. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:21, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

What if i'm editing at the same time as another person

And then what happens if I click save after the other Abdullah raji (talk) 16:33, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

See Help:Edit conflict, @Abdullah raji. Sometimes the software can reconcile your changes and publish the later edit; sometimes you'll need to resolve the conflict manually. 57.140.16.27 (talk) 16:47, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Inevitably, this happens not infrequently. One tip is: every time before you hit "Publish", copy your new text to your clipboard so that if there's a conflict you don't need to type it all out from scratch again. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 5.68.252.202 (talk) 05:42, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

How to connect Uwe Holmer to the Spanish and German counterparts?

I recently created an article about Uwe Holmer and I know there are existing articles about him in Spanish and German. However, if you go to languages, it does not list either. When I click "add language", it only talks about changing the interface of Wikipedia, not connecting articles in different languages to each other. Thanks for any help given! ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 17:16, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

@HistoryTheorist: This link magically occurs in Wikidata. A bot named "Pi Bot" added your new English article to the Wikidata item some time today. It takes awhile for this to propagate back out to the various affected Wikipedias. -Arch dude (talk) 17:26, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

::Okay, let the waiting games commence! ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 17:41, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Never mind, the bot did its work. Thanks anyway. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 17:42, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

For reference: one can also login to Wikidata and manually add a link for a newly published (or accepted) article. If there is an existing Wikidata "Item" which corresponds to the article (in this case d:Q1634260), it's very straightforward (scroll to the bottom of item page; select wiki; select article; "publish" – voilà. (The process is slightly more complex if the item doesn't already exist, although new item creation is relatively simple to learn too.) Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 18:32, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

listing a dune buggy

listing a dune buggy, how do I list it?? With pictures? Aviationmetalsmith (talk) 17:34, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

This isn't a place to list things for sale. This is a project to write an encyclopedia. If you want to write an encyclopedia article about a dune buggy, and have significant coverage in independent reliable sources to summarize, an article may be possible, but will be challenging. Please see Your First Article. 331dot (talk) 17:40, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

How to delete articles?

How do I nominate an article for deletion Keysbutschool (talk) 18:54, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. TSventon (talk) 19:04, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Span not working

To add a tooltip, I added a span with title to my signature, which gives something like this. Apparently, it works well around the last three words of the preceding sentence, as it does in de.wp (such as here). Why does it not work in my signature here? It's not because it is surrounded by   ( like this ), because this works fine. ◅ Sebastian Helm  🗨 21:33, 19 October 2023 (UTC) After some more experimentation, I noticed that it doesn't always work on de.wp, either. But when it doesn't it behaves differently from en.wp: It shows nothing at all, not even the usual file context menu. After refreshing the page it behaves as intended. ◅ Sebastian Helm  🗨 21:40, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

@SebastianHelm: It works for me in Firefox. Your signature span with a title is around an image and not around text. I don't know what "the usual file context menu" is but maybe it's something your browser adds on an image with a file link. File:Blue and yellow ribbon UA.png has a license which requires a link for attribution. File:Blue and yellow ribbon.svg does not require it so |link= is allowed to disable the link. Does this work as you want: . As a possible bonus, it actually looks blue and yellow for me while your signature image looks green to my eyes at that resolution. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:38, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

@sebastianhelm: unfortunately for you, images are not allowed in signatures. ltbdl (talk) 03:16, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you. I'm sorry that I missed that note about images, which is even bold in the preferences page. ◅ Sebastian Helm 🗨 04:53, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

October 20

Help correct the reference of 2004 Opening ceremony Athens Olympics

I need help here to correct and fix the Opening Ceremony of Athens 2004 Olympics. I just put in the reference. 108.21.67.83 (talk) 01:54, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

 Fixed. Reference name was used more than once, which caused the error. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 02:00, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much. 108.21.67.83 (talk) 02:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Martineau family

Ref number 15 is in red - I cannot fix - bad device. Please fix if you can. Sorry 115.70.23.77 (talk) 03:25, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

It has "access-date=20 October 20233". I fixed it, but it should be easy for you to do next time. Also, please read WP:CITETRIM, one brief sentence does not need six references. RudolfRed (talk) 04:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

oops, typo I missed a word in my reply! RudolfRed (talk) 04:06, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Setting up an alternate acccount

Hi, I've set up an alternate account for edits when not on my main laptop. I like to test on mobile device and old computers, but I don't want to go log in to a bunch of random devices or stay logged in on my phone. So I tend to make small corrections as an IP. As I've been around, I've come to see many users create an alt, and I've seen a lot of people express the idea that there is something inherently fishy about logged out editing. I have several questions even after reading about alts:

1. Is there anything specific I need to do to edit with an alt? I've chosen a similar user name, put a notice, and linked both of my talk pages to each other.
2. Am I meant to fold my old IP edits into the alt account somehow? If you check the most recent edit on NotLD[2]: that's me and all other edits under that IP are also me.
3. Can I participate in discussions with the alt? I made it for small fixes, so this will likely not come up. I just want to make sure that I understand. I think if I want to participate in an RfC or AfD, I'm meant to not use this account, since it could appear as bonus person?

Sorry for the confusion, Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 05:15, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

From my general experience (others may point you to specific policies):

1. You have done exactly the right things – you have a good reason for having two accounts, and you have made their connection completely clear.

2. It isn't possible to combine IP edits into a named account, but you can if you wish mention on either or both of your User pages what IP(s) you have previously used, although this might compromise your anonimity if it's a fixed IP you still have, so you don't have to.

3. In such discussions, you can use either account, BUT you should only use one in any specific discussion or linked discussions.

Hope this helps, and links by others to written policies welcomed. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 5.68.252.202 (talk) 05:37, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 06:05, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

What are the rules....

where is the specials... 2603:6080:82F0:740:80F0:2A2D:873A:D504 (talk) 05:52, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

For the Specials, see The Specials. If you have something else in mind, please describe it, lucidly. -- Hoary (talk) 07:08, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Are you looking for the Wikipedia:RULES? Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:07, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Question re:template merging and wrappers

I am totally new to editing templates - although I'll likely just let someone else complete the merge in question, I'm trying to learn more about how this works so if I ever do try I don't make any horrendous mistakes.

The banner templates for WikiProject Crime and one of the task forces of that project were nominated for merging, which makes sense. I did a hypothetical sandbox test (here's the wrapper one for the task force) for what a merge should look like and I don't think I screwed up too badly, I hope.

My question: can the task force banner template be converted to a wrapper template after the fact, when it's already in a page? It says it would be automatically transcluded by a bot but does that apply to pages that were already tagged? It seems annoying to have to individually re-tag all these articles if it's simply converted to a redirect for WP Crime (though maybe it could be done via bot? not sure)

Also, can these merges only be done by specific editors or is me trying to do a test case like what I am doing and then asking a template editor to do the edit for me good? Totally new to this and don't want to screw up, sorry for any inconvenience D: PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:02, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Lost account access

Hello. I used to edit a lot of Wikipedia articles but have been away from it for a few years. I've forgotten my account password and the email address no longer exists -- the whole domain was closed by the company. How would I go about regaining access to my account? I remember an old password, though that must not have been the last one I used. Many thanks 2A02:6B60:E363:0:DD7:DBBE:9EBD:D690 (talk) 09:21, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

yeah, we can't help you here. you can create a new account, noting the username of the previous account on the new account's userpage. ltbdl (talk) 12:02, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

To expand on ltbdl's reply, it's not that we don't want to help you: it is technically impossible to recover an account where the password has been lost and there is no valid email attached to it. That's why ltbdl suggested creating a new account. ColinFine (talk) 13:09, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Link

Added a name to a list, and I was able to get the name to link but the band associated shows up on Wikipedia as; Raspberries (band), if I leave out ‘band’ it just links to a page about the fruit. If I add band in parentheses it says page not created. Tamastein (talk) 13:24, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Here is how to do a link (click edit to see the markup): Raspberries (band). If you don't want the word 'band' to appear, write Raspberries. Girth Summit _(blether) 13:27, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

@Tamastein - The link to the band Raspberries in the Open-handed drumming article is correctly formatted. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 14:08, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

To close a discussion

I opened a discussion by creating new section in talk page of an article. Now that I was satisfied to close discussion. Can I do it? And if YES then what is the template. I seen below my section an edit request was closed using a edit request answered template. Is their any such template to close a discussion?? Thanks in advance! `~ᴀɴᴋʀᴀᴊ ɢɪʀɪ🎇✨ 14:56, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

There is no formal process required to close a discussion on a talk page, unless it is already formal in some way (such as an WP:RFC).

Often, people simply stop posting to a discussion. But you can use a template such as {{resolved mark}} ( Resolved) if you wish. See Template:Close for a list of such templates. ColinFine (talk) 19:44, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

People from Mallemort cat

Hi Folks!!, I created this category. I don't know if its correctly formed. I found four people who were from that town. If somebody could take a look at it. Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 19:34, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: [[:Category:People from Mallemort]]. --ColinFine (talk) 19:47, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

University president

I am in the communications department at the University of the District of Columbia and need to add our President to wikipedia. Can you please assist? Ashantai1983 (talk) 19:40, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

@Ashantai1983: Sure!

• Mandatory first step: declare you status as a paid editor: see WP:PAID
• Read several ariticles here on similar subjects as yours: (university presidents) to get a fall for the proper tone and format.
• Make certain that your subject is notable my our definition. Notability is the only absolute requirement for a Wikipedia article. See WP:N. Do not skip this step.
• Gather references that establish notability. Your university web site is not by itself sufficient, because it is not "independent of the source".
• Proceed to WP:YFA
• Come back here if you have further questions.

-Arch dude (talk) 20:01, 20 October 2023 (UTC)