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November 15

Thai pen: where to buy

Very strange one... I recently found a pen lying around somewhere, and like it a lot. I'd like to buy one, but the label is only in Thai... could someone identify the brand, or a shop in the UK that sells them, perhaps? Picture here – thanks! ╟─TreasuryTag►inspectorate─╢ 12:38, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

That's Japanese, not Thai. Perhaps a photo showing more of the pen might help identify the make. FiggyBee (talk) 12:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, the label said "Made in Thailand" in English, which is what led me astray ;) The pen is just cylindrical, translucent, rollerball-tip. ╟─TreasuryTag►voice vote─╢ 13:03, 15 November 2009 (UTC)q

Yes let's see more of the pen please. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:39, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

And really, do you need to write "copyright 2009" all over the image? Nobody is going to want to pirate your blurry pen photo. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:57, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it's laying on something that has "copyright 2009" written all over it? Dismas|^(talk) 14:19, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Um, no, that's obviously not the case. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:34, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps he was joking? Larger photo just upcoming. ╟─TreasuryTag►sheriff─╢ 15:53, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

The label has some resemblance of Muji. Can't be sure though without seeing more of the pen or label. --Chan Tai Man 14:05, 15 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chantaiman (talk • contribs)

OK, a more full image is here. Sorry about the low quality, that's my webcam :P ╟─TreasuryTag►constablewick─╢ 15:58, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Yep, looks like a Muji, or similar, gel pen. FiggyBee (talk) 16:11, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Jet Pens carries a bunch of Japanese pens. I can't see your image, so I don't know if they carry yours. APL (talk) 16:04, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, not too likely. They range of items that a typical Japanese stationary shop carries (or any stationary shop in the Far East with strong Japanese cultural influence) are really staggering. Range of choices in Staples is okay. Sometimes, I wonder if all major UK high street stationers share a single merchandiser behind the scene. Their range of choice is absolutely boring. I wonder what is it like in other places. --Chan Tai Man 17:55, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

：中性（ゲルインキ）ボールペン　　　マフリキ0.5mm That's all I can read on it. My translation: Medium type (Gel ink) Ball pen ????0.5mm. Steewi (talk) 00:44, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

The last word appears to be ムラサキ (purple). I'm going by the original, very fuzzy, image since the second one seems to no longer exist. The line below that might have information about the manufacturer, but it's unreadable. -- BenRG (talk) 10:31, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I like this one. Bus stop (talk) 00:53, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

TreasuryTag, Try an arts supply shop, or if you live in a big city, an Asian art supply shop. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:45, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi, TreasuryTag: your gel pen has been positively identified in a Muji shop in the UK. It comes with a range of colour with 0.38mm or 0.5mm tip thickness variants. It costs £1.50. Its tag completes with the "Made in Thailand" wording that you haven't shown. Having said that. Muji doesn't usually sell items exclusively to them, so you might able to find an identical pen under a different label or brand. BTW, case solved, but I am not sure the "founding fathers" of the RD envisioned it is to be used in this way. 8-) --Chan Tai Man 20:51, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Mitsubishi survival/camping tool

I found a very old leather sheath/case that fits onto a leather belt. It contains a "survival tool kit" consisting of knives, fork, spoon, cork screw, scissors, screw driver, bottle opener, etc. for a total of 11 tools. The leather case is stamped JAPAN and on the front metal piece it says MITSUBISHI and shows the emblem for that manufacturer. I can't find ANY information about this tool anywhere and would appreciate some information. Thank you.72.173.64.59 (talk) 17:17, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

You probably know this already, but you can buy tools like that nowerdays. And as you've probably already guessed, it seems it was made by Mitsubishi in the early days - I think they are best known for electronics now. 78.149.122.6 (talk) 20:07, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Mitsubishi, which was founded as a shipping and trading concern of the Tosa Domain in 1870, is one of the largest keiretsu and was the largest zaibatsu in Japan. They build ships, trains, planes, tanks, cars and trucks, they own the country's largest oil and chemical companies, nuclear reactors, mines, breweries, real estate developers, banks and insurance companies. To say they're an electronics company which may have made a leather tool case "in the early days" is something of an understatement. FiggyBee (talk) 20:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Your later sentence is not true - you've put a lot of words into 78.149's mouth which she/he/it did not actually say or imply. 92.29.45.37 (talk) 00:13, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

They also can tuna I noticed the other day. Googlemeister (talk) 15:18, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Sportscaster Ski Wear company

Is there any information on a Seattle, WA based company from the 1970's named Sportscaster, that manufactured ski apparel? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.165.23.127 (talk) 20:19, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Well here is a building it used to own, there is some minor hits on google in bio's of people who worked there (mainly one liners) but I can't find any definitive history. I don't suppose the USA has anything similar to Companies House do they? Nanonic (talk) 20:49, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

NOTE: Company name was "Sportcaster" not "Sportscaster."

November 16

Inducing a past dream or similar dreams.

If you have had a dream that you want to have again, what are the best ways of making it (or a similar dream) more possible? I have read a decent proportion of the Dream article but the sections I read didn't help very much, and I couldn't read it all because it's awfully long. Thanks very much in advance for any help you can provide. I left but now I'm back (talk) 00:09, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

The same way that you get reoccurring nightmares, by thinking about it all day or by repeatedly being exposed to the stimulation that triggered it in the first place such as horror movies for nightmares. --121.54.2.188 (talk) 06:56, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Dreams are part of one's subconscious way of handling real problems and not a good way to seek escape from them. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:16, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

This is emphatically not how it works. Vranak (talk) 02:01, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Why are Chips made from Semiconductors?

Might be a silly question, but why are modern computer chips made from semi-conductors and not full conductors? What would happen if the latter were used instead? Acceptable (talk) 01:35, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I have found the HowStuffWorks article to be a better lay explanation of what semiconductors are and how they are used in transistors than the Wikipedia article (which, like many Wikipedia articles on technical things, get too technical too fast). The real advantage, as I understand it, of semiconductors over conductors (e.g., just copper wires), is that you can very carefully control the electrical conductivity of a semiconductor, which allows you create transistors, which act like little electronic switches. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:43, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Mr. 98 is right. Computer chips are made up of transistors, which cannot be made from just conductors. —Akrabbim^talk 02:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Possibly the OP thinks Semiconductor just means "poor conductor". As the article shows they are much more than that. The key feature of a semiconductor crystal is what kind of carriers carry an electric current. Useful devices (diode, transistor and more) can be made by putting together different semiconductor materials. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:13, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

There are two things we commonly build from semiconductors - switches and amplifiers. In both cases, you need to be able to control the conductivity of the device electrically. That's not something you can do with fully conductive materials. Without the ability to switch - we'd have no computers or other digital devices. Without the ability to amplify - there would be no analog devices. Computer chips are actually made of layers of semiconductor - but there are layers of metal (aluminium) conductors in there too. The semiconductors make the interesting switches and amplifiers - the conductors connect them together. Both are important. SteveBaker (talk) 13:41, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

We can build both with fully doncutive materials, can't we, they just have to be massive (vacuum tubes and so on)? The reason we use semiconductors is that what otherwise would be a huge component can now be almost infinitely reduced, so that thousands of components that would have occupied a big board, for example, now fit on one chip? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 22:51, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Limitations such as component failure rate, heat dissipation and signal propagation time make it impossible to build a computer processor like the one you are using out of pre-semiconductor-era components. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:26, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Vacuum tubes are not fully conductive, since a diode conducts only in one direction and amplifier tubes (triodes, pentodes) have conductivity (in the plate circuit) controlled by grid voltage, with a small energy signal controlling a large energy signal. "Control" is where a small signal (like your foot on the brake pedal) controls a large force (like the brakes on the car). "Efficiency" is related to your question: some electronic circuits waste more energy than others, while achieving somewhat comparable results. A computer with electromechanical relays uses more electricity than one with vacuum tubes, which uses more electricity than one with transistors, which uses (I expect) more electricity than one with chips, along with each generation being faster and more powerful. Even in electronics with chips, some older circuitry used more power than later CMOS chips, to achieve the same calculating power. Edison (talk) 02:26, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

World Beef Production

I figured with all the traffic on this page... DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 02:22, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

30 / 0.23 = 130, so yes it does. -- SGBailey (talk) 15:27, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, one needs to be careful with that. The 23% is likely to represent the quantity of beef being produced (say in number of heads or perhaps by weight) that is traded. Since not all of the world production may be open to free traded (say due to export controls and tariffs; health and food regulations, and other barriers) and the non-traded beef may be systematically different in quality compared to the traded-beef, it would be incorrect to naively price the whole world production based on the export-market price levels. Abecedare (talk) 02:32, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Shame about the lack of beef industry --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:39, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Le petit Nicolas

For my French class, I have to answer a bunch of short-answer (one or two sentences each) questions about Le petit Nicolas, but one of those questions, about chapter 19 "Je quitte la maison", has me stumped: "Expliquez le symbolisme de ce dernier chapitre." Can you please help me? --70.134.48.115 (talk) 03:05, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm happy to translate the question: "Explain the symbolism of the chapter you have just read." (Not a direct translation, but a clear one, I hope.) Does that help? Marco polo (talk) 03:18, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

And there's also Symbolism, fwiw. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:22, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Anything can be symbolic. For example, "Je quitte la maison" could be a metaphor for leaving home in senses other than the merely physical, e.g. growing up, or giving up.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:54, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Nicolas runs away when his mother scolds him for spilling ink on the new carpet, intending to amaze his parents by returning in a few years, rich and successful with a plane and a car. He asks his hungry friend Alceste to come, but Alceste refuses because dinner will be ready soon. Reminded of mealtimes, Nicolas eats his chocolate and spends his last few coins on an eclair rather than a plane and a car. He decides to borrow a more humble form of transport to run away, but his friend Clotaire won't lend him his bike, and the toy-shop man won't buy his toys so he can buy the bike from Clotaire. Nicolas bursts into tears and the man gives him a toy car to comfort him, at which point Nicolas goes home happy and decides he'll definitely run away tomorrow instead. Think about the symbolism of trying to sell your toy train and car to fund your escape to adulthood and the acquisition of real cars and planes! Le petit Nicolas is all about childhood. In this last chapter Nicolas tries and fails to exchange the safe world of childhood for a car and a plane, symbols of adulthood. He ends up with a symbolic car instead and goes back happily to childhood. Or something like that ... Que c'est chouette! Karenjc 18:16, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

The tale is one of sexual repression. Nicolas is trapped in his Oedipus complex wherein his puerile libido drives a fantasy catharsis of arriving in streamlined (= phallic) vehicles by which he will steal the mother from the father. The superfluity of the two vehicles, car and plane is obvious when one notes their potent symbolisms of the controlling driver Nicolas first steering his mother as passenger, then stimulating her by speeding and finally attaining orgasm in the ecstatic catharsis of an aerial lift-off. There are other deeper issues. Why does the hungry friend Alceste refuse to partake in the adventure? He may suspect Alceste is secretly plotting against him. Nicolas' paranoia finds confirmation when Clotaire the false friend thwarts his escaping by bike and the toy-shop man joins the same conspiracy. At this point occurs a complex secretomotor phenomenon characterized by the shedding of tears from the lacrimal apparatus, see The Primal Scream by Arthur Janov. By this stratagem Nicolas achieves a dual victory: the material reward of a free car plus this lesson in survival: Women cannot be trusted but men can be controlled emotionally. Nicolas is content to await the resolution of his sexual orientation until tomorrow, which for him will be puberty. It is obvious to a psychoanalyst that this is the classic Child development that leads to heterosexuality, homosexuality, both or neither. This could take years of therapy. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:08, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

That's cheating - you've obviously read the sequel: Nicolas chez Mélanie Klein. Karenjc 16:15, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Identify a skyline

Hello. Can anyone identify the skyline shown on this album cover? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:05, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Seems that the band/singer is from Philadelphia so maybe it's that sky-line? Fits reasonably well with the skyline photo from the wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Philadelphia_Panorama_From_Camden.JPG). 13:44, 16 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk)

I don't really think it fits at all, in terms of the numbers of buildings, the shapes, the placements (even imagining it from a different angle). --Mr.98 (talk) 16:08, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Only a guess I guess but my guess would be London. Look at the much smaller centre front building with 4 chimney stacks and I am thinking Battersea Power Station on the bank of the the River Thames. 92.22.6.186 (talk) 20:20, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I would concur with that, and add Canary Wharf in the background (pointed top), but some of the others look just too tall. I would suspect therefore that it's not a single picture.  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 20:48, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

The solid block of high-rises does not look like London to me. I suspect that the power plant could be Philadelphia's Trigen plant. If so, this would be a view of Philadelphia Center City from the southwest, as opposed to from the east, as shown in the view from Camden above. Marco polo (talk) 21:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

It might be 2 or three or four skylines put together. I would guess we are talking about the one in the background, although it appears the closest. The lightening is almost certainly not of the same photograph as the most prominent skyline. The same thing for the rays of light emanating from the upper right. It could be Manhattan from Central Park. Bus stop (talk) 21:58, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that's Battersea Power Station; the smokestacks look too high in relation to the distance between them. It also isn't a good match for the linked image of the Trigen plant, which has 10 smokestacks that appear to be about equally high. I just did a Google Images search on the terms "philadelphia" and "4 OR four chimneys OR smokestacks", and the only hit in the first three pages that resembled the album image was this power station in New York City; but when it was in use it had that big coal-loading apparatus, and according to the page where the image was linked from, the smokestacks were demolished in 2005. So I doubt it's that one. (Here's another image of it with the smokestacks but without the loading apparatus.) What this seems to show is that this was a relatively common design for big power stations and it will be hard to find the right one. --Anonymous, 00:22 UTC, November 17, 2009.

Well-paid student jobs

In just under 2 years I'll be going back to school to get my MA. I can borrow money to cover some of my living expenses, but probably not everything, and it is an MA so my spare time will be less than most undergrads have. So I'm looking out for student work that's a bit more flexible and better paid than the usual supermarket or bar shifts. Ideally something I could do from home over the internet. I'm working now, but 2 years' worth of evenings and weekends should be enough to pick up some new skills (I hope...). Anyone got some ideas to throw at me, other than prostitution? 89.195.228.168 (talk) 20:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

When I was similarly as a student seeking unskilled work I was advised to choose between Trash collector and washing bodies in a morgue. I chose a summer job doing the former but in retrospect the latter might have been more educational. OTOH the clients don't tip so well. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:56, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

You should try and find a job that uses the qualifications and work experience you already have. Undergrads need to find unskilled work like bar tending (and prostitution), but a mature post-grad should be able to find a well paid part time job using the skills they have. --Tango (talk) 22:17, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Various skills are called for in prostitution.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:15, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Not really. If you have certain skills you can get more money doing it, but at the lowest level it is pretty much unskilled. --Tango (talk) 23:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

From what experience are you judging?--Leon (talk) 06:34, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Experience isn't the only way to learn. --Tango (talk) 06:35, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

A "well-paid student job" is something of an oxymoron, assuming you are unskilled. The difficulty is that with some unskilled jobs, there is an investment by you and by the employer to learn more skills. But a student job is essentially a temp job. It can be very difficult to get a decent temporary job, even if you have a bachellor's degree. If it were me, I would concentrate on finding a job that had something to do with what you were getting the MA in—even if it was just administrative/research work around the department where you will be working and didn't pay well. (It would at least be a decent investment of your time, unlike being a trash collector.) --Mr.98 (talk) 01:51, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Why wouldn't you seek a teaching assistant or research assistant job? They typically pay a stipend plus free tuition. This adds up to more money than other plausible legal entry level jobs, and provide things you can list on your resume besides "bartender," etc. It is a good deal for the student and a good deal for the college, which doesn't have to pay s faculty member. Edison (talk) 02:18, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Depending on what the MA is in and at what university, there may or may not be such jobs available. If there are, then it is certainly a good option. You shouldn't be looking for entry-level jobs if you have a degree and several year's work experience, though. --Tango (talk) 03:06, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

What are you doing now? You haven't made it too clear what experience you've got. I'll add that I don't think finding work need be that easy, regardless of credentials, though (I think) work experience really helps. I've got a physics degree, and despite around 40 job applications my search for work was fruitless, so I decided to take up a fully funded PhD place!--Leon (talk) 06:34, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Well you've got enough time to do some teacher training. I don't know where you're located, but in the UK there is a high demand for one-to-one tuition for schoolchildren, and that's typically self-employed at around £30 per hour. If you had a basic adult education teaching certificate, you could teach adults in your subject at a local college, which pays around £20 per hour less tax and NI. With a teaching certificate you could work in the private education sector. Something else you could start now is some voluntary work, which will give you a feel for paid employment: it may not pay as well as teaching, but home carers work hours to suit, and you could even work nights as a carer which would pay even more. How's that for some ideas? --TammyMoet (talk) 10:07, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

November 17

PSA

Recently read that one's PSA was in the 'hundreds". If true, what effect would that have? Nail —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.190.229 (talk) 11:13, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

That depends on what you consider PSA to stand for. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:01, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

If it's Prostate-specific antigen, one should ask one's doctor. FiggyBee (talk) 13:49, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Which of these are you talking about? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:00, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Criticism

I am getting too judgemental on my co- workers and often critcize everything and every one. I understand that it is not good, but I seem to relapse to the same behaviour after few days of abstinence. What is the way out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.201.46 (talk) 11:19, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

A vacation might help. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:02, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Hard to do I know but try gathering those folk you tend to criticise around a cup of coffee and a tin of biscuits that you will buy, and explain how you feel and ask them how it affects them and how they feel about you. You may get a very rude awakening but I guess people will be impressed at your readiness to listen. But as I said, it's hard laying yourself bare in such circumstances. Good luck. 92.9.156.61 (talk) 13:38, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Try working on your social-skills, your compassion and your empathy. Remember that you are not perfect yourself. Remember that (depending on your job and the people) it's possible some of your co-workers are not really bothered about their work, they just want to do enough to keep the job and get paid. That 'half hearted' approach is not always the case, but it's out there. Similarly laern to understand that just because you have (for instance) a preferred way of doing something doesn't make it the only way, or the (necessarily) the right way. Most jobs have multiple ways of doing the same thing, with pros and cons to each - people will have preferences. Basically, stop being a grumpy person and try to look at things in a positive light, or try to overcome frustrations by accepting them and moving on (assuming you've tried and failed to eradicate/overcome them). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 13:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Being open with your feelings is the best way to go. Go ahead and criticize, and see how they respond. Sooner or later you'll work out the kinks in yourself and get to a better place. Vranak (talk) 17:12, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

That's a rather mixed message, Vranak. Being open with your feelings is fine, generally speaking. But there's more than one way of expressing feelings of irritation, frustration etc other than just criticising its source. Explaining to them how you feel and why, is preferable to just criticising them. The idea is that they can be brought in to an understanding of how their behaviour affects you, but in a safe way, where they're more likely to start to see it from your perspective and modify their behaviour. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:31, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

The path of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. So I would recommend being a little coarse and unpleasant for a time so that you get feedback. Eventually, with enough feedback, a person gets their head straight. But there's no feedback if you self-censor your hostile feelings. Vranak (talk) 21:06, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

In the real world, a co-worker who continues to narcissistically impose his coarseness and unpleasantness on everyone else is liable to find himself in an H.R. situation due to creating a hostile work environment, which if uncorrected will eventually lead to dismissal. Doing what you feel like is not the right way to do things. Working as a team requires compromising that stuff. If one is not able to do so, he should seek professional help, which wikipedians are not qualified to give. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:34, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Well if somebody is so messed-up that it ends up with HR, or they end up unemployed, so much the better. The chickens eventually come home to roost, and whatever demons possess you must be expunged sooner or later. Living comfortably is not conducive to exorcisms. Vranak (talk) 22:46, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I (JackofOz) never suggested one should censor one's feelings of hostility. They should be expressed (otherwise they'll stick around), but there are ways of doing that that work better than just lashing out. Lashing out, believe it or not, puts you in the position of victim (i.e. not in control, i.e. lose, i.e. lose-lose), whereas if you communicate whatever your feelings are, while keeping the other party engaged and on side, then you stay in control and everyone wins. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 01:37, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah Vranak - I have worked for bosses who espoused your stance - but not nearly as effectively as I would have done had they been more conducive to knowing how to get the best out of me. Funny thing though - in every case I can recall - they always left under a cloud whilst my star kept on ascending and I was promoted to their job and beyond. Whenever I see one of them in the street now that they and I are retired I am happy to greet their weasel "Hello's" with expletives beginning with "F". 92.9.156.61 (talk) 00:00, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Stance? What stance? That people should reveal their inner feelings, even if they are ugly? I don't think that's a stance so much as being an emotionally-valid human being. But what do I know! I have no wealth to my name, so my opinion can't possibly be worth a second thought! Vranak (talk) 00:05, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

You're missing the point. Work is about doing work, not about being an emotional baby-sitter. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:25, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Work is never just about the work. The actual activities of pushing pencils and calculating various things of dubious importance is largely window-dressing to the social interplay between persons who would otherwise be bored and alone. Vranak (talk) 02:32, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Excruciating boredom in the workplace can lead to all sorts of aberrant behavior. Bus stop (talk) 02:46, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Excruciating boredom at work, home and school can lead to people editing wikipedia. That the secret of our "success", and also all the vandalism. :-) Abecedare (talk) 02:49, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Without being specific to any unnecessary degree, what are you being "judgmental" about? Is there any theme? Are they (your coworkers) of equal status, or above or below you in any hierarchy that may apply in the work setting? Please do not reveal personal information but can you provide us with any clues as to the nature of the worlplace? Are your concerns only personal, or do they have ultimate consequences beyond you or even your coworkers? Bus stop (talk) 01:56, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Comment: This being a reference desk, I think it would be most helpful if we could provide the OP with links to books, articles or groups that provide advise on office interpersonal relationship. Abecedare (talk) 02:03, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

OP, here are some books I found that address the topic of your question:

• Toxic criticism: break the cycle with friends, family, coworkers, and yourself
• The Cooperative Workplace
• Managing workplace negativity

If you search Google Books for keywords such as "workpace" and "criticism", you'll be able to find many more references. I personally cannot make a recommendation, since I have not read anything in the area, but perhaps someone else on the board can (although caveat emptor always applies when taking advise and recommendations from anonymous persons on the web, so you should search for book reviews too!). Hope that helps. Abecedare (talk) 02:14, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Start with How to Win Friends and Influnce People by Dale Carnegie, the godfather of the self-help books. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:39, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

NRA Pro Bono Lawyer in Illinois

I'm going to be restricted from my collage courses, and further education on collage campuses, due to an unauthorized search of my vehicle on campus grounds. Where can I find a good pro bono lawyer who represents the NRA, or one who is a firm believer in second amendment rights, in Illinois, preferably in or around Cook County? --HitmanNumber86 (talk) 15:19, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

The ACLU is always a good starting point.Chief41074 (talk) 15:27, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, in this case the local NRA chapter might be a good starting point. Is this collage to be made of cartridge cases? PhGustaf (talk) 15:43, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

You don't want a lawyer "who represents the NRA", you want a lawyer who represents you. A "firm believer in second amendment rights" might be great if you want someone to chat with about how you did nothing wrong, but they're not necessarily going to be the best person to present your case to the college or to a judge. Incidentally, the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution (which guarantees against unreasonable searches, not "unauthorised" ones), like the rest of the Bill of Rights, applies only to the actions of the government and to criminal cases, not to private organisations (like campus security) and civil cases or non-legal penalties. Good luck! FiggyBee (talk) 15:58, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Their is no "campus security." They are real police officers, working out of a real police department, on campus. I'm not sure if I need a lawyer yet. I was charged with traffic violations, and will pay my dues for them. I just don't want the unlawful search of my vehicle to hamper my education, especially when campus policy is made unclear. If all colleges had the same policy, gunsmithing courses would have a lot of trouble holding classes. I want to have a lawyer at the ready to represent my standing in not knowing that campus policy overrules county, state, and federal law. I don't want to sue the campus, due to the fact that they have never had a successful lawsuit against them (they've spent 100,000 USD to save 2,000 USD). I only need someone to help present my case, if needed. --HitmanNumber86 (talk) 17:57, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

See motor vehicle exception, and also consider that the college is not a court, so even if the search was "unlawful" that doesn't mean the college can't act on it. I don't know if you'd be able to get a pro bono lawyer if you're not actually going through the legal system. Is there any kind of student advocacy body you can ask for help? Otherwise, all I can suggest is be apologetic and polite rather than combative - you broke the rules, you know better now, and you're asking for forgiveness. FiggyBee (talk) 18:09, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Inferentially, we understand you've been caught with a gun on campus and you write under the pseudonym HitmanNumber86. Nope, I can't see a problem with any of that... --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:26, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

And I can see no problem with you wanting to know: "Is a 12 gauge sabot shotgun round traceable?". SteveBaker (talk) 13:36, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

If this is a Fourth Amendment (search and seizure) more than a Second Amendment (right to bear arms) issue, then the ACLU might not be a bad place to get a referral. Much might depend on whether the college is a state one (like the University of Illinois) or a private one (like DePaul University). UI's actions would be those of the State of Illinois, while Northwestern's or DePaul's would not. Jose Canseco got in trouble taking his wife to the University of California San Francisco medical center many years ago because he had a gun in his car (I think in plain view). The National Student Association might also be able to help you, as might your local legal-services organization (like the one Barack Obama worked for) or (to know about experience and specialties, rather than for recommendations about quality) the Cook County Bar Association. —— Shakescene (talk) 20:15, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

You might find additional related information in the Gun laws in the United States (by state) article]]. However, considering the number of murders carried out by disaffected students at US schools and colleges, why on Earth do you think it is remotely acceptable to take a gun to school (or anywhere else for that matter)? I'm surprised they didn't throw you out of school, permanently. Astronaut (talk) 04:09, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

I suspect the OP will argue that precisely because of the murders they feel they need the gun. While I don't agree with this view, this clearly isn't the place for such discussions as the header says, no soapboxing or debates please Nil Einne (talk) 08:12, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

You may try contacting your local chapter of the ACLU or the NRA; be aware that both organizations have finite resources, and may also have goals that differ from your own. Is your aim here to be a widely-cited legal precedent, provoke debate among pundits, and spend a significant part of the next few years in court appearances and preparation — or do you just want to put the matter behind you quickly and quietly and go back to being an ordinary student? (That said, it can't hurt to ask. Be aware of proposed legal strategy and likely outcomes before you get started. Is this a problem that can be solved by a couple of messages on legal firm letterhead, will there be meetings for mediation, or is there going to be a trial of some sort?)

Another option is that universities with law schools often operate free or steeply-discounted legal aid clinics. By their nature, these organizations generally have extensive experience in resolving disputes between students and the university administration. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:30, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Even though I personally lean far closer to Handgun Control's position than the NRA's—and blame Virginia's laxness for flooding the Northeast with illegal guns that have killed hundreds of young people in the Northeast—I have to point out that Hitman's position wouldn't be considered at all absurd in Virginia, which declined to ban guns on campus even after an armed student's massacre at Virginia Tech. —— Shakescene (talk) 07:38, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

authentic Katana

iv always been fascinated by the katana, and would love to own a authentic one. i dont mean like an antique, just one made by one of the few licensed smiths that still make them. only thing is i dont know where to look, or how to be sure there actualy an authentic Tamahagane and nabe-gane steel sword.

so any info on where to look or just who to buy one from would help. thanks --Talk Shugoːː 18:41, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I also would love to own an authentic sword one day. I was in Japan about seven years ago and visited a store called Japan Sword in Tokyo. The website is a bit dated and crappy. They had both old and new traditionally crafted swords. I was weak at the knees after walking around the store for a few minutes.. From memory I believe the starting price was about US$7000 back then for a newly crafted blade, don't know what it is now. If I was going to seriously consider purchasing one then I would start by contacting the store directly and asking if they had an English speaking agent. Apart from that, you would have to familiarise your self with your local laws regarding owning and importing such a weapon. I live in Australia where importing a sword is actually not very easy. I believe it is easier in the states but if you don't follow the law to the letter you risk having your precious investment confiscated or worse even being charged for importing illegal goods. The alternative to tide you over, is look up local blacksmiths in your area who are making swords. I was surprised that there are a few people who are reviving the art and take it quite seriously as a hobby, and actually make quite good stuff. Sure it's not authentic but for a tiny fraction of the price you can have something you can still be proud to own, not a cheap moulded fake, is quite practical and nice, will fool most people hanging on the wall and you'll be supporting a local crafts person. Vespine (talk) 05:30, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

An antique may actually be cheaper than a high-quality modern sword (and, imo, will be more "authentic" since it was actually made as a weapon, not as an art piece). Many thousands of Japanese shin gunto were exported to the United States after WWII, including many older blades in the officers' versions. FiggyBee (talk) 10:31, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

well i have to thank you both, im actualy an intermediate swordsmen and so far my faverite to use is the katana. it just feels right, problem is i dont own one and im dieing to one day. as for a local smith, i dont think anyone here in the states makes them the way i want it. if im going to pay for somthing i may have to use, i want the realy thing. but a WWII model98 i think its called would be realy cool too :)--Talk Shugoːː 18:54, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

How can I develop two more personalities?

So I was reading Deadpool and it looks like he has a lot of fun, so I'd like to develop some more personalities, but I'm not sure where to begin? I read your article, but it doesn't mention how to develop split personalities, only how to cure it. 150.182.174.111 (talk) 20:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I would imagine (though don't know from personal experience) that hallucinogenic drugs might speed up the process. *** ╟─TreasuryTag►Not-content─╢ 20:14, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Deadpool is a work of fiction. You may wish to read some genuine accounts of people with multiple personality disorder because deciding to try and induce it. --Tango (talk) 20:20, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

screw around with some demonic stuff like wika or some conjuring book and you'll get some personalitys, although you might not like what you get lol --Talk Shugoːː 20:25, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I tend to agree with both TreasuryTag and Tango, but I believe that attempting to cause yourself severe head trauma would help your goal but would be completely inadvisable as it could also kill you. -- Friend or Foe?! Declare or Die!! - KillergruntRGNL 20:29, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Generally (and perhaps universally) speaking, one does not develop psychological eccentricities out of preference or whimsy. They develop when your mind cannot bear a particular aspect of reality. And that sort of situation is forced upon you by malefactors and oppressors. Can you oppress yourself? Can you coax others into doing it? Of course not. Vranak (talk) 22:45, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

If you've followed it long enough you would know , Wade Wilson is not really happy,more sort of manic.He got that way for taking part in a secret military project so there you go..hotclaws 23:58, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure there is an evidence that head trauma or hallucinogenic substances can induce multiple personality disorder. Long term use of hallucinogenic drugs have been known to apparently trigger mental problems, but only after a long use, and those don't appear to be the kinds of changes desired. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Some noted Wikipedians have developed multiple personalities, with different user names as well, although this is forbidden. Some are "bad hand" versions of an otherwise respectable user. They are called "sockpuppets." Some bad users have even become administrators or high ranking functionaries by maintaining socks which do "good edits." Edison (talk) 16:33, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

i actualy have a multiple personalite, and its actualy not as fun as you think. in my openion your best bet is to just injoy the fictional story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DanielTrox (talk • contribs) 18:59, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

How can I get a picture in a userbox?

How can I get a picture in a userbox? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyle Sheik Dark (talk • contribs) 21:03, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Given a separate header by 86.142.231.220 (talk) 22:51, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Addiction and a cure

duplicate to question asked at Humanities desk. Please answer there
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Dealing with Addiction (to either drugs, drink, sex, or anything), searching for a cure has been a vexing problem, for often the cure is not adequite and "back-sliding" occurs. Is there anything on this? Or does anyone have thoughts on this? I have been following the Conversion History of Saint Augustine in the various Article page and found they did not cover the subject adequitely. I re-studied the Confessions and discovered he found the key to a complete cure! He went from being an addict, to some backsliding, to a complete cure. And discovered his process had a number of key steps. Am I alone on this? MacOfJesus (talk) 21:36, 17 November 2009 (UTC) I don't quite understand your question.Are you asking are you alone in finding a key to the cure for addiction in St.Augustins Confessions?...hotclaws 00:01, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

CA 11 to I-110 and CA 7 to I-710

When did the Long Beach Freeway and the Harbor Freeway actually change from CA 7/11 to I-710/110 completely post signs. Is 1981 the actual time when CA 11 sign post change up to i-110 because some maps still have Harbor Fwy as CA 11. What about Long Beach Frwy because some 1984 map still ahve them as CA 7. Could I-710 been fully change up in 1986 or late 1985? When highways change name how long it usulaly take to completely process? Just few weeks or up to a year to fully upgrade?--209.129.85.4 (talk) 21:47, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

The articles you've linked give the dates when the signage was changed, at least on the highways themselves. I imagine that it might have taken a year or more to update all signs on all roads that intersect with these freeways. Map publishers may be slower to reflect the change for at least two reasons: 1) to save money, they fail to revise their maps completely, and/or 2) they leave old route numbers on maps thinking that their audience may be more familiar with those route numbers, especially if they are still used in conversation, traffic broadcasts, and so on. Marco polo (talk) 21:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

There can also be cultural and social resistance to adopting a new highway number. The state of Massachusetts has been trying to make Massachusetts Route 128 disappear for years. Most of the route has been absorbed by I-95 and I-93, and the state has intentionally worked hard to minimize signage to encourage people to call it "I-95" instead of 128. Still, locals invariably call the road "128" (or wun-twunny-eh') even though it has become hard to find a "128" sign on or around it. It make giving directions to non-New Englanders tough; people looking for the 128 exit off of I-93 will miss it, since it isn't labeled, but locals stubbornly refuse to call it I-95. --Jayron32 00:06, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Many people either don't know or refuse to acknowledge that the storied U.S. Route 66 no longer exists (don't forget Winona!) Hell, try telling any New Englander that the Boston Post Road, usually referred to as the "Old Post Road" or just "Post Road", has long been more a series of disjointed local fragments than a continuous road between major cities. (On the other hand, some of England's great roads, still in use, were first built by the Romans.) —— Shakescene (talk) 04:49, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Funny, when I wrote my comment above, I was thinking of Route 128 in Massachusetts, which I travel quite often. Marco polo (talk) 16:37, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Flagstaff to Tuba City

Hello everybody!
I wanna travel from Flagstaff, AZ to Tuba City, AZ but I didn't found flights and (Greyhound) buses. Can you help me, how can I travel? Thanks, Keldvi (talk) 20:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

The Navaho Transit System offers service between Flagstaff and Tuba City. I've linked you to the schedule. Here is their home page in case you need any other information from them. Marco polo (talk) 21:58, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

The distance between Flagstaff, AZ and Tuba City, AZ is only about 70 miles; scheduled flights that short do exist in the world, but not generally between places so small. FiggyBee (talk) 10:22, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

I once flew across country where the final leg of the many stops was San Jose to San Francisco. The actual stops were Washington DC - Atlanta - New Orleans - Dallas - San Jose - San Francisco. 99.166.95.142 (talk) 16:52, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Way back when I flew regularly from Oakland, CA, to Orange County. There was an intermediate stop at San Jose — the plane never got above 3'000 feet or so. More recently, there was a "non-stop" flight from San Jose to Tokyo. But the runway at San Jose that time couldn't handle a fully loaded and fueled 747. The plane took off half-gassed, trundled the 30 or so miles to SFO, filled up, and was off to Japan. PhGustaf (talk) 17:08, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

SF and SJ each have a population 100 times that of Tuba City, hence my point. Most short scheduled flights are either between major cities, or between islands where other transport is impractical. FiggyBee (talk) 17:27, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

To get from Abiding Savior Lutheran School in Lake For to orange lutheran high school

To get from Abiding Savior in El Toro to orange lutheran would average driving be 30 minutes. Is it possible to average 45 minutes to orange lutheran. Becasue when my dad once drove this took him 40 minutes to orange lutheran. But to Santa Margarita Catholic High School would the drive be 20 minutes on average? Because the computer teacher said was 25 minutes commute average wise. When map online give time do the time is only accurate when all the lights is green? Mapquest said 14 minutes from ASLS to SMCHS but would actual dirving be 20 minutes?--209.129.85.4 (talk) 22:06, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I believe that programs like mapquest use an algorithm based on average speed of the type of road being traveled to calculate average drive times; thus it may assume that one can average 65 mph on a freeway and 55 mph on a divided highway but only 30 mph on a city street. Of course, since they cannot possibly know what the specific driving conditions are on the specific time you plan to be travelling, YMMV. Some mapping programs and GPS-enabled devices also have the possibility of encorporating real-time traffic information to adjust travel times on-the-fly; however a piece of paper printed off of mapquest does not usually have this functionality. --Jayron32 23:15, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

In my experience, estimates of driving time from mapping programs like Mapquest assume that there will be no traffic-related delays. They also don't take into account the density of traffic lights. As Jayron32 says, they may assume the same average speed for all roads of a given category anywhere in the world. However, at least for Google Mpas in the United States, I think that the quoted speed is related to the speed limit. In fact, travel times may be based exclusively on the speed limit, since they don't seem to take into account the frequency of traffic lights. So, I think that they assume that you will be the only car on the road, that you will always have green lights, but also that you will never exceed the speed limit. For that reason, travel time estimates tend to be too low for urban driving but are often conservative for longer drives on which you may exceed the speed limit (but don't tell anyone) on the open highway. Marco polo (talk) 20:59, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

November 18

Expired cell-phone card

I had a cell-phone contract and after I had canceled it, I could still use the SIM card (for emergencies only). For that purpose, a cell-phone with an expired card can still connect to any tower, but does this generate costs for the cell-phone company? --Mr.K. (talk) 12:51, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, sort of. You phone will use 'bandwidth' from their towers. The cost will be tiny-tiny-tiny but will have an impact on their traffic and thus on their costs - there'll not be a specific cost attributed to your phones existance - it is more maintainenance costs for the towers, which your phone won't be paying for. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 13:01, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

And why do cell companies provide this service? Are they obligated to it by law? --Mr.K. (talk) 13:11, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

In many countries they are obligated to by law. In the USA, FCC regulations require that every phone which is physically capable of connecting to the network must be able to call 911; this includes disconnected numbers, cell phones with expired cards, and even cell phones with no sim card in at all. FiggyBee (talk) 13:24, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

This is the main reason why non-profits such as women's shelters will take donations of old cell phones. They give them to women who are getting out of bad relationships where they fear for their safety. As long as the phone is charged, and receiving a signal, they can dial 911 if their abusive ex attacks them. Dismas|^(talk) 14:07, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

And why you should take the battery out before using a phone as a child's toy. I saw some numbers recently on this one. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 23:15, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

I believe that in the UK (and EU?), the ability to call emergency services is a legal requirement for all telephones including mobiles. For example, just after I turn on my mobile, I am able to call 999/112/911 before I have even activated the SIM card with my PIN number - ie. subscription status or minutes remaining is not even checked. I presume the small cost of such calls is absorbed by the carrier. Astronaut (talk) 00:42, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Free University Education

Is it possible for an US teen to attend college for free in European countries where university education is free for its citizens? --Reticuli88 (talk) 15:03, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

In my home country of Austria, the answer seems to be: maybe. Have a look at this link, particularly step 2. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 15:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Free education isn't really free; someone has to pay professor's salaries, building and grounds maintenance, etc. etc. In countries with "free" university education, that cost is born by taxpayers in that country, so my guess is that most of those countries still charge tuition to foreign students coming to study; since those students would not be paying the taxes necessary to maintain the system. --Jayron32 15:49, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, except that – as the link I provided says – in Austria, at least, you do not have to pay tuition fees if you are a citizen of a country that Austria grants, due to international treaties, the same rights as Austrians. I have no idea if the USA is one such country or how many such countries there are. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 15:55, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

(EC) In the UK, where the situation is slightly complicated*, you will have to pay overseas fees which are significantly higher than 'home' fees and vary from university to university and from course to course (e.g. from mid-single-digit thousands to around 23k for clinical medicine). This sort of information will be available on the 'international' or 'overseas' section of university admissions websites. 131.111.248.99 (talk) 15:52, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

* Scottish university tuition fees are free for Scottish and non-UK EU (or EEA?) students; elsewhere you are guaranteed loans with relatively friendly terms to pay tuition fees. 131.111.248.99 (talk) 15:52, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

When I was in college ([ahem] more than 20 years ago), the situation in Germany was that foreigners did not have to pay more than Germans to attend German universities, but they did have to meet German admission requirements, including proficiency in German. German universities did not charge "tuition" per se, but they did charge fees, which however were much lower than tuition and fees at almost any US university. Students at German universities were also entitled to grants from the German government to offset their living expenses, though apparently since my day, grants seem to have been partly replaced by loans. It used to be that foreign students could also receive German government grants, but per the German Wikipedia article on this, foreigners are now eligible for support only if they have been legal residents of Germany for at least 4 years. Nonetheless, I think tuition remains very low in Germany, even for foreigners. Marco polo (talk) 16:32, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

In Norway, no tuition at all, neither for Norwegians nor foreigners. [1] [2]. There is a small registration fee of usually less than (the equivalent of) $100 per semester, that's all. Living expenses can be high, but are lower in remote places (where there are still sometimes institutions of higher learning). Jørgen (talk) 19:57, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm currently a US Citizen studying in Germany. Granted, I am on a scholarship, but as it seems in other people's cases, they will still have to pay the 500€ tuition and the 42€ registration fee (that's for my Uni specifically). However, unlike the US, there is no (ridiculously) higher tuition price for out-of-state or out-of-country students, everyone pays the same amount regardless. But I don't think non-German citizens qualify for any tuition-waiving from the government (e.g. if you have a child, or if you come from a family that is still receiving Kindergeld). Fruit Blender (talk) 12:49, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

As a follow-up question, it comes to my mind whether somewhere in the world, there is a free English speaking university... Mr.K. (talk) 10:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Several. West Point, United States Naval Academy, United States Coast Guard Academy. That is just in the US and the list is not exhaustive. Googlemeister (talk) 14:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

As a follow-up follow-up question, it comes to my mind, whether somewhere in the world, there is a free English speaking non-military university...

Well, the University of Oslo (in Norway), referred above, has English-language master programs, but apparently no undergraduate programs taught in English. Maybe some other universities in Norway have that. (However, I think Norwegian universities would require one year of college from the US, the same might go for other European systems where, like in Norway, "high school" lasts one year longer than in the US) Jørgen (talk) 22:20, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I was curious enough to look it up, and here is a list of English-language undergraduate studies in Norway. Though I know that the business administration one is not free (it's a private school), I expect most of the others to be. This list says that you can get admission with a US high school diploma with "3 APT tests with at least grade 3" (but this is only a minimum requirement, there might be additional grade requirements etc) Jørgen (talk) 07:36, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

tagging a account

How you tag a account as a legitimate alternate account? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyle Sheik Dark (talk • contribs) 17:10, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Questions about the nuts and bolts of Wikipedia should normally be addressed to the Help Desk. That said, the alternate account portion of the sockpuppet policy page spells out the accepted means of tagging. — Lomn 18:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

The simplest way to do it is to write at the top of the alternate account, in plain old text "This account is an alternate account of User:XXXXX" where XXXXX is your main account. However, someone has come up with a fancy template that does the same thing, see Template:User Alternate Acc. However, there is no requirement to use that tag, you just need to unambigiously link your two accounts. --Jayron32 21:04, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

You don't even have to unambiguously link accounts if you don't want to. Just don't sock puppet. Having multiple accounts that nobody knows about is fine as long as you aren't abusing any of them. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:56, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but it is actually quite easy to abuse them. Undisclosed alternate accounts should not a) edit the same article as other accounts you manage b) be used to edit in the "Wikipedia:" namespace c) be used to avoid scrutiny or to edit disruptively while your main account stays "clean" (good hand/bad hand) d) be used to dodge a block or to mask prior existing sanctions against other accounts (i.e. avoid having multiple warnings and blocks on each account; spreading out abuses so no one notices its the same person, etc.) In general, you tend to run into FAR less trouble if you just link the accounts publicly, so on one will suspect any shenanigans. --Jayron32 02:44, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

See User:Edison2 for an example. Edison (talk) 05:28, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Another good thing to do is to be logged in to your main account when you visit Special:Createaccount to create the alt account, as I did when I created User:The Hero of This Nation. That way everyone can see in the log who created the account (example).

Spinning black thing on top of vans

Hey

This has been bugging me for years, what are the names and purpose of the spinning black thing on top of some vans? It looks like they are wind powered so i assume they either charge something or do some other kind of job but what?

I tried finding a picture but with no luck :(

If anyone can inform me about these id be truely grateful! Cheers

-Benbread (talk) 22:37, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

A ventilator? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:41, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

(ec) I think they are air vents. They work like an (unpowered) extraction fan. Vans don't have windows or anything in the back, so they need some other way to keep ventilated. --Tango (talk) 22:43, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Wow i was well off :P Thanks for your help Cuddlyable3 and Tango :) -Benbread (talk) 23:00, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

November 19

Wikipedia

Who started Wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.58.153.106 (talk) 01:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Jimmy Wales and Larry Sanger. We have an article at Wikipedia. — Matt Eason ^{(Talk • Contribs)} 01:36, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Jimmy won't be too pleased about sharing credit... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.55.114 (talk) 09:39, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

No, he's not, but Wikipedians examined the reliable sources and determined that Larry was a co-founder. That's what it says in the relevant Wikipedia articles. --Tango (talk) 17:58, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Also History of Wikipedia. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 01:37, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Company wiki

Im sure this isnt the proper medium to ask this, but im also sure that this will point me in the right direction.

i wanted to write a wiki about a small company. Nothing too different from the others ive seen, just location, company backround, services offered. But from what ive read,that is inappropriate for Wikipedia. I was hoping for a little help understanding why.... this is an encyclopedia right? Please help! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cincinnatus010 (talk • contribs) 02:42, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Read WP:Notability and Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). They should help. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

You might also read WP:NOTWIKI. Staecker (talk) 12:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

WP:COI would be good to read, too. --Tango (talk) 18:00, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that we do not encourage articles about things that are not "notable" because if we allowed articles about absolutely anything then half of the people on the planet would be writing articles about themselves, their pets...you name it. There would be no way to police all of those trivial articles for reliability, correctness or even language. It's tough enough with just three million articles - imagine if there were a billion or so! The guidelines lay out the threshold at which something (like a small company) is just too insignificant to warrant an article. It can be harsh to think that something you care about is officially "insignificant" - but that's life. Secondly, we aren't about providing free advertising space...and that's probably what you're thinking about when you are considering writing this article. But recall that this is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Do you really want your competitors carefully recording and exposing every mistake you make on the Wikipedia page about your company? They certainly could (and probably should) do that - and because we value neutrality here (as you'd expect of a reputable encyclopedia) - it's very likely that wikipedians would stand up to your protestations and demands for removal of offending material! Finally, you would not be allowed to write just what you want about this company. We have verifiability standards - you need to be able to point to reliable sources for this information - not things that the company has published, independent sources such as newspaper articles, books, etc. You can't say "The Whizzo Widget Company makes red, green and blue widgets" without finding some independent source that says that. That's because we are not a primary source of information - we require that our readers should be able to (in principle) look up the references at the bottom of the article and check for themselves that what the article says is true. For a small company - finding those independent sources can be tough...which brings us back to the notability standards. If you aren't notable enough to have had a lot written about you by independent sources, then there is unlikely to be enough verifiable material to be able to write an unbiassed article. SteveBaker (talk) 13:19, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Faulty cds- any uses?

What can u make from faulty cds instead of throwing them away. The only thing I can think of is wheels.--79.75.63.71 (talk) 04:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Beermat? --Jayron32 05:00, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Build a model of a high-tech Viking ship, with the CD's on the side of the boat as shields. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:10, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Hang them in the garden to scare away birds--88.109.19.101 (talk) 06:49, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Sew them onto a jacket or dress (shiny side outwards, of course) for an unusual fashion look. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:51, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

And deer! --Sean 13:35, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Place them by windows in beams of sunlight to reflect 'rainbows' around the room (some work better than others). 87.81.230.195 (talk) 09:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Put one in your survival kit - they make splendid heliographs.Alansplodge (talk) 09:50, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Use as pocket mirrors? Jørgen (talk) 10:09, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Send to a CD recyclers, although you have to send in a lot in one go. Lots of places have boxes where you can drop in printer cartridges for free recycling and I've often thought there should be similar boxes for CDs and DVDs.--80.195.117.33 (talk) 11:32, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Weapons. They make for good shuriken. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 14:42, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Have fun zapping them in the microwave (takes less than 5 seconds). Astronaut (talk) 17:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Stick a cotton reel over the hole in the middle, stretch a party balloon over that, inflate it, and you have your own air hockey game. --Tango (talk) 18:02, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Here is a list of possibilities: [3] I like the clock idea and actually had one. cheers, 10draftsdeep (talk) 21:25, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I sometimes see them hanging in the vertical plane from a long piece of string outdoors as a kind of scarecrow. Have lots of them and you have a kinetic sculture that moves and flashes with the wind. I wonder if they tinkle when they hit each other. 78.146.97.208 (talk) 21:51, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Add a CD halo to a statue of Buddha. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:45, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Make a homemade spectrometer. Nadando (talk) 03:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

As others have pointed out, this is something that's often been discussed [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] www.squidoo.com/oldcd (not a wikilink due to spam blacklisting). This also applies to other common sources of useless optical media, e.g. AOL CDs and we even have an AOL disk collecting which has a few relevant links, e.g. [9]. Of course the fact they are commonly called coasters hints at a use itself and there are numerous tutorials [10] [11] [12] www.ehow.com/how_2841_create-cd-coasters.html (not a wikilink due to blacklisting) [13] [14] [15]. Nil Einne (talk) 11:20, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

res judicata

Is this legal concept the same as double jeopardy? DOR (HK) (talk) 06:46, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Not exactly, it's more of a parallel to it. Read both articles (which I have now linked) and perhaps the distinction will become clearer. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:52, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, BB. Couldn't make heads or tails of the difference myself. 210.176.69.125 (talk) 09:46, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Res judicata means that the legal issues involved have already been firmly decided and are unlikely to change. Double jeopardy says that the same person can't be tried twice for the same crime. I suppose that most cases of double jeopardy are also res judicata - but not vice-versa. Res judicata comes up in (for example) hearings of the US Supreme Court where they may decide not to hear some particular case (deferring it to some lower court, perhaps) because they have already ruled on similar cases in the past so that the legal issues involved are res judicata - even though different defendants are involved each time so that double jeopardy does not apply. SteveBaker (talk) 13:48, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually that last sounds more like stare decisis. I don't know much about res judicata but the impression I got from the article is that it has to do with questions of fact, not questions of law. --Trovatore (talk) 21:13, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Are there any national financial capitals that aren't

also the national publishing and advertising capitals?

Seizethemonth (talk) 08:48, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Germany: Frankfurt am Main (finance) vs Hamburg (media). Advertising may be evenly split between those two (with Berlin and Munich as further centres). --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 09:17, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Hong Kong. 210.176.69.125 (talk) 09:47, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

USA - Wall Street isn't in Washington DC!Alansplodge (talk) 09:49, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't think anyone would consider Washington DC to be either a publishing or advertising capital. Dismas|^(talk) 12:04, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Agreed - I didn't read the question properly...Alansplodge (talk) 13:07, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Canberra , Australia seems like it would qualify. Googlemeister (talk) 14:51, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Again, I don't think Canberra is a financial, publishing, or advertising capital. Marco polo (talk) 15:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if it is still the case, but in the 1980's, through a quirk in legislation, Canberra (more correctly the ACT) was the hardcore porn publishing centre of Australia. --80.176.225.249 (talk) 23:49, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

For China, Shanghai is arguably more important than Hong Kong as a financial center within China. Hong Kong is something of a city-state unto itself. Within China, advertising is split among Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou, with Hong Kong firms also heavily involved. However, Beijing is really the main publishing center. Marco polo (talk) 15:41, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

How does a city with no convertable currency or free movement of capital qualify as a financial capital?DOR (HK) (talk) 02:31, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

India: Mumbai is the center for finance and advertising, whereas New Delhi is the center for publishing. Marco polo (talk) 15:45, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Not 100% certain, but I think that Wellington is still regarded as New Zealand's financial capital (it's definitely still the legislative one), while Auckland is the centre for advertising and publishing. Grutness...wha? 00:16, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

why does a minute have 60 seconds???

thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.197.253.31 (talk) 13:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Because it does. It's a tacit, consensus-approved convention. Also,

The fact that an hour contains 60 minutes is probably due to influences from the Babylonians, who used a base-60 or sexagesimal counting system.

I'm sure this also applies to the second-minute ratio. Vranak (talk) 13:58, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

...and also the 360 degrees in a circle. It wasn't really a base 60 system, though, but alternated between bases of 6 and 10, as follows:

    The 1st digit went up to 6.
    The 2nd digit went up to 60 (6×10).
    The 3rd digit went up to 360 (6×10×6).
    The 4th digit went up to 3600 (6×10×6×10).

You also see the 3600 seconds in an hour in there. Now, you might ask why they used an alternating system of 6's and 10's. The 10's are obvious, as that's how many fingers we have (except for those who play with fireworks). The 6's, on the other hand, may have come about as a way to get a number close to the number of days in a year (360≈365¼). They also have the advantage of being a number you can probably just look at to count (rather than going 1, 2, 3, ...). StuRat (talk) 16:07, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

For pre-decimal days, 6 works better as a number base because it's more convenient to do fractions in. (Dividable by 2,3,6 - add in the 10, and you get 2,3,4,5,6,10,etc.) -- 128.104.112.237 (talk) 17:41, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I also heard somewhere that part of the reason a second is the length it is because it roughly approximates a human heartbeat at rest. Don't know if there's any truth behind that... TastyCakes (talk) 16:18, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

For a possible alternative system, see Decimal time. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 16:35, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

In a world without calculators, base-60 makes a lot of sense because 60 is evenly divided by 1,2,3,4,5,6,10,12,15,20 and 30. No other reasonably small number can do that. Choosing base-10 just because we happen to have 10 fingers was a poor decision in retrospect! SteveBaker (talk) 19:34, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Of course, you then need to have sixty different, distinguishable symbols to represent all of the numerals. And what child will remember his multiplication tables? If you'd like, you can pretend that we have a base-100 system now — just take pairs of digits in a base-10 number. Then you've got a base that is evenly divided by 1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 20, 25, and 50. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:24, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

...which is more or less exactly what they did - using pairs of symbols in base 6 and 10 as StuRat explained above. I agree that learning to multiply in such a system would be tough. It's interesting to note the issues with going the other direction - computer software people are "really" working in base 2 - but that's so incredibly inconvenient that people started to work in base 8 (octal) in order to have shorter numbers, using more symbols. Gradually, it became clear that base 16 was yet more convenient. Octal is now more or less obsolete - most people work in "hexadecimal" - complete with 16 symbols (0-9,A-F). SteveBaker (talk) 03:49, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

In the 16th century the astronomer Taqi al-Din in his observatory at Istanbul built the first mechanical clock which divided each minute into five seconds. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:35, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Page Count

Hi, I once stumbled on a link to a page where you can see the count of your contributions on Wiki, so I obviously got hooked, and now I'm page-count-dependant, so how do I reach it? It should be a site outside the orthodox Wiki, and anyway does it count all contribuitions on wiki or only WikiEnglish (eg. contribuitions in italian)? Help a poor Wikiatic...--Amendola90 (talk) 13:38, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

A list of edit counters is available at Wikipedia:WikiProject edit counters. The most popular one is by User:X! at http://toolserver.org/~soxred93/ec, and it can count contributions on any language Wikipedia individually. --Mysdaao ^talk 14:22, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Gotcha, thanks for the help.--Amendola90 (talk) 16:44, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Also, see WP:NOTWIKI. Thanks, gENIUS101 22:22, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Viatical settlements

A viatical settlement is where a person with life insurance sells beneficiary rights to a third party who pays the premium until the insured person's death. Usually beneficiaries are close to the insured and have a financial incentive, so notifying the insurer of death is not an issue, but that's not the case with a viatical settlement. How does the viatical settlement purchaser ensure that they are notified when the insured dies (assuming they don't do the logical thing and take out a hit on the seller)? Thanks. --Sean 14:28, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Usually in such cases the insured person is terminally ill when the benefits are assigned, so they won't have very long to wait. The settlement will stipulate that they are notified of the death, and if for some reason this does not occur, they can always search the register of deaths. -Ehrenkater (talk) 15:18, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

By the way, some life insurance policies have an early benefit (often called "accelerated benefit") provision, wherein a terminally ill person can collect a portion of his benefit before he dies, thus reducing the incentive to make an arrangement like a viatical settlement. The Hero of This Nation (talk) 15:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

True - most term protetion policies have a 'Terminal Illness Benefit' which pays out the life-insurance amount on diagnosis of a terminal illnness (usually qualified with being given less than 12 months to live). Firms also have 'orphan funds' with millions in payouts that haven't been claimed. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 16:05, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

If you buy something, and the price drops substantially, and you are still within the return period...

Will the retailer usually refund you the difference, or will they require you to return it and then buy it again?

I bought a Tivo DVR from Amazon less than 30 days ago, and now it is selling for almost $42 cheaper. Will Amazon refund me the $42 or should I return it and buy it again? The Hero of This Nation (talk) 15:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

P.S. No "Ask Amazon" answers please. I am asking them -- I just want to know what others' experience has been. The Hero of This Nation (talk) 15:38, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Unopened/unused items with a purchase-receipt - yes you should be able to get a refund from most retailers and then re-buy in the sale. Amazon automatically 'drop' the price if you pre-order something at one price and it is then subsequently released at a cheaper price (it recently happened to me - I bought a game at £35 on pre-order, but by release it was £25 so got a £10 refund). I very much doubt they would automatically do that for non pre-order purchases (since you are buying the item there and then). It's a company by company issue. 15:48, 19 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk)

Unless there is something wrong with the item, you may find you have to return it at your own expense, including insurance in case it goes missing. In the UK at least, vendors are not obliged to refund your money if there is nothing wrong with the purchased item: once you've accepted it the contract has been completed. (Sorry if this is bordering on legal advice.)--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:05, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

It's bordering on incorrect legal advice. In the UK, Amazon is obliged to accept goods back if they are returned within 7 days, under the Distance Selling Regulations. (There are conditions attached to how they must be returned). --Phil Holmes (talk) 10:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't know about Amazon, but a lot of places charge a 10-15% "restocking fee" on electronics (along with return postage), which would eat into your profit on the return-and-rebuy deal. Unfortunately, the "Ask Amazon" is the best answer you're going to get - each retailer has it's own policy, and I am unaware of any law which would force them to refund you the money. It is, however, good customer service, so it may be likely that they'll do so if you ask nicely. -- 128.104.112.237 (talk) 17:37, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

My family does this all the time; it seems sketchy to me, but I think they do it on purpose for some reason. They've never had a problem getting a refund for the difference between the normal price and the sale price. Occasionally they will need to bring the item back, get a full refund, and then buy it again at the sale price. This is at big retail stores in Canada, where, I suppose, the teenagers working for minimum wage are too apathetic to care. Adam Bishop (talk) 18:08, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

If the store allows full refunds without a specific reason, then there's not really anything the cashier could do about it even if they did care. Rckrone (talk) 20:47, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

The OP is hoping for two things that in Law are separate: 1) Voiding of the original purchase with a full refund. 2) A subsequent purchase of an article. (It makes no difference whether it is the same or a duplicate article.) Depending on the terms of sale, the Seller may not be obliged to do 1). The Seller is not obliged to do 2) (and can always claim to be sold out). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Some brick-and-mortar retailers have a "price guarantee" offer: if they cut the price within a certain period after purchase (usually one week or 30 days), you bring in the receipt and they'll refund you the price difference. --Carnildo (talk) 01:29, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

From my experience this all depends on the refund policy of the company because not all places have fancy "price guarantees". The refund policy will dictate the terms of refunding the item. However, most refund policies also indicate that the item must be in a sell-able condition, so for example, let's assume you are still within the return period, but you are actually only interested in getting refunded the price difference and not interested in actually refunding the item, but your item has been used and isn't really "sell-able" - in which case the manager would have to be called to issue a refund and immediately sell it back to you. I guess, this whole system also means that if the price is reduced and your return period is up, you cannot get the better price -- and that sounds pretty fair to me :p Rfwoolf (talk) 11:26, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

What stops her from going mad?

I am British and an avowed supporter of the Monarchy though I would happily lose most of the lesser hangers-on. I watched the Queen yesterday do a magnificent - as usual - job of presenting the next set of Government Bills to both Houses of Parliament. I have met the Queen and Prince Philip on several occasions and always found them to be polite, pleasant, and utterly bland, in the same way she was during the Queen's speech yesterday. Nothing seems to excite or thwart her - she takes everything in her stride. Her life is so pre-arranged and predictable that she must know to the minute what is going to happen to her schedule for months and years ahead. How can anyone in her position remain sane when there are no surprises left, save an ex-daughter-in-law dying in a car crash, or 3 of her 4 children divorcing. Does she have some secret and private life that is kept justifiably off-limits from the press and public that allows her to be like the rest of us - at ease. Or was she, like her father and predecesors, trained for this pantomime role and therefore takes it and herself utterly seriously? 92.21.176.245 (talk) 18:17, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

The queen certainly has times when she is not scheduled and her time is her own. As best anyone can tell, her private life is quite conventional. She dotes on her dogs and takes an interest in horse races. You should see the film The Queen if you haven't already. It offers what I think is a well-researched glimpse of the queen's private world. 192.251.134.5 (talk) 18:25, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

It's also a matter of what you're used to. Bear in mind that she's lived in that environment all of her life - for her, it's 100% normal. SteveBaker (talk) 19:25, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I've never heard the expression "utterly bland" used as a compliment before, but there you go, language is full of surprises. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:15, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I didn't understand "utterly bland" to be complimentary, as used. Bus stop (talk) 21:29, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

First, what choice does she have but do go along with the dreary life you have described? Second, maybe she already has gone partly mad. Just because you go a little crazy it doesn't mean you cease to live. Vranak (talk) 20:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not so sure her life is dreary. One way to look at it is that this is her job. As a job, it's not a bad one. She does some research, so that she knows something about the various dignitaries she will meet and can carry on polite conversation with them. She is always meeting new and interesting people as part of her job. She needs to keep up with the news so that what she says is relevant. Most challengingly, she needs to inspire Britons and help uphold the legitimacy of the British state. It is her job to project the gravitas that American presidents are also expected to project, though not all succeed. Finally, the job is quite well paid and comes with some very nice perks. Marco polo (talk) 21:08, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

That will depend on your point of view I suppose. It seems like a prison with golden bars to me. Googlemeister (talk) 21:18, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

"..she needs to inspire Britons and help uphold the legitimacy of the British state.." LMAO, ROFL, etc. etc. I know you're US not UK, but do you really think she does that - or that most Brits think she does that, or would even want her to...  ???!!!! (There goes my chance of a knighthood, but I'd rather have a barnstar any day...) Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:46, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

When I had an office job I could tell you what I was going to be doing months or years ahead. I was stuck in an office, in the same seat with the same people doing the same paperwork with the same view out of the window (view: a wall) for years, but I did not go mad (I think....). Q has it a lot easier: she jets off to interesting places, meets interesting people, and gets constantly adored. 78.146.97.208 (talk) 21:58, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

She upholds an interesting ideal. There are expectations of how the upper crust is supposed to conduct themselves. I think that involves not revealing vulgar emotions. I think that involves not stooping to engage in expressing disagreement except from a place of remoteness. The air of nobility has to be understood in order to be cultivated, and understanding it is probably a full time preoccupation. Being the queen is thus a genuine calling, with all its quirks and demanding responsibilities. Bus stop (talk) 22:18, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

(EC) Her "public persona may be the way it is because that's the way they're taught - just like those palace guards who look like statues. Once they're off duty, they likely engage in quite a few interesting leisure activities with quite a few frivolities. It's just that the only time you see them is when they're guarding Buckingham Palace, etc.. I'm sure the queen is the same way.

Besides, what else would you expect? Do you really expect reigning monarchs to start hurling insults at other countries, or launch into a monologue like Bob Hope? "Hey, about that European Union, I wanna tell ya, I had a bad feeling about it ever since I first saw the acronym for it; who would want to belong to a place that sounds like someone let off a stink bomb?" (Eeewwwwww) :-)

Some United States politicians have been known to have much greater senses of humor, too, than others. So, maybe her personality just isn't one to be really loud and outgoing. Some people, genetically, are just much more reserved.209.244.187.155 (talk) 22:22, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I am sure that the lives of all you palace watchers have aspects that you would regret being widely known. The Queen has a private life that is nobody's business but hers. As a public person she would seem never excited or thwarted but if that is a mask, it can slip as when she related

“ 1992 is not a year on which I shall look back with undiluted pleasure. In the words of one of my more sympathetic correspondents, it has turned out to be an Annus Horribilis. ”

Her present sanity is not in question. But their regal status kept neither monarchs George nor Ludwig sane Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:05, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Regardless of The Queen's purpose or lack thereof, it's nice to give her the benefit of the doubt. She seems like a decent lady. Vranak (talk) 23:10, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

She's a pretty nice girl, but she hasn't got a lot to say. I'd like to tell that I love her a lot, but I got to get a belly full of wine. Someday I'm gonna make her mine. Oh, yeh. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:56, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Let's hope that day never comes, Baseball Bugs - God save the Queen say I. Getting back to the point, there's much dispute about the nature of George III's illness which is not covered in the Wikipedia article, which just describes him as "insane". Alansplodge (talk) 09:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

November 20

Photographing fish - right side?

I just read in an article about fish photography that there was some sort of "etiquette" requiring you to show the left side of a fish (i.e. flipping pictures where the right side of the fish in focus is visible). Is there such a taboo and where does it come from? 124.154.253.31 (talk) 01:16, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Wild guess - most languages of the world read from left to right, and thus the majority of viewers have eyes that are expecting information to be presented from left to right - in which case it feels natural to have the head of the fish be the first thing you see, and the tail the last. 218.25.32.210 (talk) 01:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't have an explanation - but it's not just fish. Oddly - there is a similar weirdness about photographing cars. Take a look at car photos and you'll find that the vast majority have the car facing to the left. I just looked through photos of my favorite car (the MINI (BMW)) on WikiCommons - and there are more than twice as many facing to the left as to the right. This was discussed at some length a couple of years ago on WikiProject Cars - and many people thought that it was a consequence of which side of the road we drive on - but that was blown away when someone counted car photos in British and American car magazines and found that despite driving on opposite sides of the road - we still prefer our car photos with the car facing to the left (just the same as fish). In the case of cars, I'm pretty sure the bias is not "etiquette" or "convention" - because even people who were previously completely unaware of the 'rule' would discover that of the photos they'd taken of cars, more than two thirds of them were facing to the left. It would be interesting to analyze car/fish photos from countries where people read from right to left. One other wild-assed theory is that it related to the fact that our left and right eyes are connected to the right and left sides of our brains - and thus to some bizarre idea about one half of the brain being more logical and all of that stuff. I have no clue why that would matter - but then I don't have a better explanation either. SteveBaker (talk) 03:34, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

There's also watch photography etiquette which, if you check any magazine, demands watch hands to be at the 10 + 2 position. You can say what you wish about symmetrical spread and ability to see unique aspects of watch faces (such as the number 12 or the date at the 3 position) but that doesn't really explain why the hands can't be at 8 + 4. It's just what it is because someone once said to do it that way and it caught on by convention. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 04:12, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

There's also a convention that profile or three-quarter images of people face the center of the page, and newspapermen were perfectly happy to flip negatives to make this so. The fish convention, though, has to be adjusted for flatfish like sole or flounder — the pictures are more interesting if you shoot the side with the eyes, which varies from left to right. Actually, flatfish are born with opposed eyes, and one migrates as the fish matures. Occasionally the wrong eye will migrate, so the fish settles to the bottom eyes down and starves.. PhGustaf (talk) 04:27, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I've seen it mentioned numerous times that watches are set like that because it makes them appear "happy" and that viewers subconsciously react more favorably. Whether that's ever been scientifically proven I have no idea, but it's been repeated to me enough times by all sorts of people that I think it's become the de facto reason, if not the original? 218.25.32.210 (talk) 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

We did have an article on that, but it got deleted. Astronaut (talk) 08:02, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, now that I think about it, putting a profile so that it is facing outside the page seems really awkward (perhaps they are not interested in the article?), and since most pictures of cars, fish, and other animals, when presented on a page with text, are usually on the right side of the page, that might cause a general trend to have all "faced" items looking left-wise, which would then be copied and patterned into the brain as the "correect" orientation. Does that make sense to anyone else? 124.154.253.31 (talk) 05:28, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

It is a well-established photographic composition rule to leave more room in front of an animate or moving object. Extending this rule from the photo to the page would have the subject always looking toward the centre of the page. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:31, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Catherine Ashton's beauty

Is Catherine Ashton's beauty (of lack thereof) ever a topic in the UK press? Do journalists have a code of conduct that forbids them to tackle this topic? Mr.K. (talk) 12:31, 20 November 2009 (UTC)