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May 18

telescope

which is the best telescope to buy for a starter with best picture quality and which can help view all the planets.. please advise —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.66.118 (talk) 07:13, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

There are several variables, such as price and portability. There are web pages that give you advice and have reviews of various telescopes. Google for e.g. telescope beginner and start with the first two hits: scopereviews and rocketroberts. 88.112.59.31 (talk) 07:52, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

i think orion skyquest xt8 is a good deal..anybody else?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.71.250 (talk) 09:25, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Here's a link for that telescope on Amazon [1]. It gets excellent reviews for an inexpensive, moderately sized telescope. The five visible planets (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn) will all look very good in an 8 inch telescope. If it is well collimated, you may be able to resolve Uranus into a disk, and will perhaps be able to see some of its moons, on a good night in a dark location. You won't be able to resolve Neptune into a disk, but you'll probably be able to find it, if you are in a dark area and know where to point the telescope. Most of the Messier objects should be pretty good, if you are observing from a dark area.

You can also build a moderate sized reflecting telescope for about the same price, and it makes a good project. See Amateur telescope making. There are many plans, both online and in books, to help you. If you don't grind your own optics, it's essentially just a carpentry project. Buddy431 (talk) 02:09, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

The answer to this question is going to depend an awful lot on what you intend to look at, how often you intend to go stargazing, how good the 'seeing' is at your viewing site, how much light pollution you're dealing with, how much time you want to spend setting up and taking down equipment, how much you can lift (or whether or not you'll have a friend/spouse with you to help every time you go out), how far you're going to have to carry equipment, how much space you have in your vehicle (if you have a vehicle), how much storage space you have in your home (and how many stairs you have to carry the telescope up or down when you get there), and how much money you want to spend. For the XT8, bear in mind that the base and the optical tube weigh about 10 kg (a shade over 20 lbs) each, and the optical tube is a bit more than a meter long (a bit less than four feet). It can be a bit cumbersome to transport and set up, and this may dim your enthusiasm for the hobby. This isn't to say I have anything against the XT8 (and Dobsonian-mounted reflectors scopes like it); there's no way to get more aperture (more light and fainter objects) for less money. But sometimes a bit less telescope are a better buy. A little Maksutov-Cassegrain (90 mm, say) might be just 30 cm long, weigh three kilograms (including tabletop stand), and you'll be able to see Saturn's rings. Many Messier objects should be satisfying.

Seriously, if you're just getting into the hobby and you don't have a pair of binoculars yet, I would strongly urge you to start there. They're by far the easiest instruments to use in terms of setup and portability, which means you're more likely to have them with you or take them outside. They're also the smallest initial investment, and they're the easiest to share with friends and family. They're almost certainly the most durable option. Get to know your way around the sky – and think about your interests, and the type of viewing you'd like to do – then start shopping for telescopes. This article contains excellent advice. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:33, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Take a look at the types of telescopes. Refractors (achromatic, department store-style false colour, or hyper-expensive apochromatic) are generally good for observing planets, while reflectors (Newtonian, Dobsonian or the massive and unaffordable Ritchey-Chretiens) are generally better for deep-sky objects, and compound telescopes (Schmidt-Cassegrains and Maksutov telescopes) can either be bulky or compact. Try the telescope shopping wizard to get an idea of what kind of telescope you probably want and the cheapest price you can get it at. ~AH1 ^(discuss!) 02:07, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Note that you almost certainly don't want to purchase a cheap refractor from a department store. Generally they have very poor optics, an unsteady stand or tripod, and near-useless accessories. These instruments are almost guaranteed to provide nothing but disappointment. Avoid particularly any instrument that mentions magnification ("200x") before aperture ("50 mm"). TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:08, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Starter digital telescope ?

What about a starter telescope to make digital recordings of an object and play them on a windows XP SP3 computer ? (Instead of mechanically tracking the object, I picture a cheap version would just allow the object to pass thru the field of view, and then a program would provide the proper offsets to place the object on top of itself in each subsequent frame. Obviously, a wide field of view would be important.) Ideally this would increase light gathering power, just as a timed film exposure does. Is there such a starter system ? StuRat (talk) 09:09, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I would recommend the Space Telescope Science Institute - great images for $0. The only problem is you can't pick your particular target.

A friend of mine gets get excellent images. He says he uses an inexpensive refractor telescope, an Atik 16ic cooled CCD camera and an EQ6 computerized goto mount. He typically takes a dozen or so 5 minute exposures and uses image stacking software to reduce the effects of random noise. Astronaut (talk) 13:53, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. How much does that stuff cost ? Is that a monochrome or color camera ? StuRat (talk) 15:39, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

You are interested in basic astrophotography using a GoTo mount system that will automatically track the object, preferably through an equatorial mount. Webcam cameras (with the lens removed?) are often used for this purpose, or alternatively an astrograph could potentially suit your purpose, and you could also try for instructions from WikiHow. You can connect a USB to your GOTO system, and often the guided mount runs on battery or 6-12V DC converter power, and the telescope usually comes in the range of $300 - $600. ~AH1 ^(discuss!) 01:42, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Hot rolling

how does the rolled stock behave during the hot rolling lof steel? Ahmed Eid

Can you be more specific with your question ? Obviously hot steel is more malleable than cold steel. Is that what you're asking about ? StuRat (talk) 08:40, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Does the Rolling (metalworking) article help you any? Dismas|^(talk) 10:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Ahmed, Remember To Sign Your Questions.184.163.238.18 (talk) 15:41, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

He did. StuRat (talk) 16:58, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Haha. 184, how do you know his name if not from his signature? APL (talk) 17:37, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Meteor identification

believed to be a meteorite or outer planetary stone by my granddad and is under my custudy since he's gone,which he found in myanmar about 60 years ago, is there a way to determine if it is real? can i take a picture of it and send it to some lab , i am in India..please advise —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.65.93 (talk) 09:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I doubt if a picture would be enough, they would likely need to analyze a sample. With a picture they could only give you a guess. StuRat (talk) 09:43, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Take it to a university or science museum that has an earth sciences department. Roger (talk) 10:32, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

From watching the "Meteorite Hunter" TV show, a strongly magnetic rock or one with a visible fusion crust are good candidates. But there are many different types of meteorite. Knowing exactly where it was found can be helpful to, as related meteorites are often found in a "scatter field" after the meteor explodes in mid-air. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 15:50, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Economic Activites In China ..

Hi. What Are The Economic Activities In China Now ?184.163.238.18 (talk) 15:43, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi. China is the world's largest country. And with few exception, you will find virtually any sector of economy being active there. Please make more specific questions, and you will get more specific answers. --Soman (talk) 15:50, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

How Much More Specific Can I Get? What I Am Asking Is What Are The Economic Activities In China Now?. And Now Means IN 2011 .184.163.238.18 (talk) 15:57, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Do You Want Me To Go More Specific?184.163.238.18 (talk) 15:58, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

China isn't the world largest country (Russia is bigger, and economically isn't the USA still ahead by every major measure?). That said our article Economy of the People's Republic of China will give you some information. Also note that China is referred to as 'the workshop of the world' these days what with it being a major manufacturing base for pretty much everything. In terms of what is 'hot' right now you'd probably be well judged to read some business newspapers 'Asia' sections to get a feel for what investors are seeing as growth industries/sectors. ny156uk (talk) 16:36, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I think Soman was referring to population. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 01:50, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you need to get much more specific. I don't think you want a literal list of every economic activity that takes place in China. Buying? Selling? Animal husbandry? Manufacturing? Wholesaling? Retailing? Importing? Exporting? Inventing? The list would be the same as anywhere else. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:15, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Surely there are international economic stats for the volume of industrial sectors in major countries? There are for the OECD. ILO would have employment by sector, perhaps. All sectors are present in China, but it is possible to work out the relative importance of textiles, engineering, transport etc. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:41, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Deng Xiaoping Theory is a good read and may fill in some gaps for the OP. Schyler (one language) 20:44, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like a homework question to me. I was surprised not to see the usual disclaimer. Kingsfold (Quack quack!) 12:03, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, in brief: GDP - composition by sector: agriculture: 9.6%; industry: 46.8%; services: 43.6% (2010 est.). You may also find the Economy of China page helpful. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 14:51, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

From the production side, agriculture, fisheries, animal husbandry, forestry, mining, construction, utilities, manufacturing, transportation, storage, communications, wholesale and retail trade, finance, insurance, real estate, professional services, education, healthcare, social services, personal services and governmental services. From the demand side, private consumption, government consumption, capital investment, inventory adjustments, exports and imports. From the income accounts, wages, salaries and other income from labor, corporate profits, interest and other investment income. And, of course, government taxes and subsidies. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:14, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

May 19

== Speak Asia -A boon or a bane? NAVEEN SHARMA Recently published news of speak asia has put forward dilemma about its buisness and how it is spreading tremendously in Asian countries, specially in India. Why it has been launched and what are its objectives? How come they manage such high customers working under it? They offer prizes for good marketing, from where they manage huge money? How it can benifit or hamper the financial conditions of a country? More important, who and how has been this agency put foreward? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Priteshv1991 (talk • contribs) 05:45, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Indian authorities have started probing the Ponzi investment scheme of Singapore-based company Speak Asia. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 08:51, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Silly question - all you can eat

I'm not a fan of gorging myself, but I've been pondering with my friends - if one wanted to eat as much as possible in such restaurant, how should they "prepare"? One of my friends claims that eating very little or nothing at all for a few days is the best way, while the other says that one should instead a only a bit less than normally, and consume a lot of fibrous food. I'm asking this purely out of curiosity and I most certainly won't go and commit suicide-by-food: what is the best way to prepare oneself for consuming as much food as possible during one restaurant stay? 212.68.15.66 (talk) 09:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article about Competitive eating. It does not contradict the assertion that such efforts are silly. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:41, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll have a look at it! 212.68.15.66 (talk) 09:53, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

unlike competitive eating most restaurants won't force you to eat in under a time limit... though at a certain point they'd certainly give you the old heave ho (if you weren't already taking care of that yourself in the facilities). HominidMachinae (talk) 12:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

You go now. You've been here FOUR HOURS! --Jayron32 02:30, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

That's odd. I saw that routine as a kid and distinctly remember Louie Anderson being the comedian. Dismas|^(talk) 17:30, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Actually, just recently I've been in Amsterdam, and we've eaten at a Chinese restaurant which said 'all you can eat in one hour', and my friend, who had been to Asia had said that it's actually not uncommon to have places (I think she mentioned China) that will offer you an 'all you can eat' programme but charged by the hour. --Ouro (blah blah) 14:18, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Ladies and gentlemen, does this sound like a man who has had all he can eat? Adam Bishop (talk) 14:33, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

The meaning of this one, if it is a pun, actually escapes me, Adam. If you mean there wasn't enough time to eat all you could, I'll tell you this - after an hour I was full to the brim, and the food wasn't that great either - but still a nice deal at EUR 8,50 an hour, drinks not included. --Ouro (blah blah) 13:37, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

What a sad commentary on modern values, that one would gorge oneself on mediocre food just because it came cheaply. What stops you from buying canned dog food and eating it yourself? That's a good deal, too, if money is your bottom line. I imagine it's not great, culinarily speaking, but it won't kill you. Pensioners do it all the time. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 20:53, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Adam refers to an early episode of The Simpsons (season 4, episode 8: "New Kid on the Block") in which Homer sues an all-you-can-eat restaurant. The quote is from lawyer Lionel Hutz, who asks the rhetorical question "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, do these sound like the actions of a man whose had ALL he could eat?" [2] TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:35, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

According to the DVD, Conan O'Brien actually came up with that subplot when the guest star stipulated for the original "B story" in the script, Don Rickles, refused to participate. I went to an all-you-can-eat Japanese restaurant where there was a time limit (2 hours I think) and they also charged you $1 for every piece you ordered that you didn't eat. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 07:03, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I get it, all of it. Well, it wasn't the mediocre food that attracted us, for me it was much more the experience of not ever having been to a place which would charge by the hour. I'm actually very open to trying new food - but it has to be food (in my definition, food is not what is available for purchase at the golden arches or similar). I often use recommendations from waiters or just pick something I don't understand the name of, when I'm abroad, just for the experience. The food wasn't bad, wasn't mediocre - but to put this into perspective, I've travelled to southern France and Corsica a while before I was in Amsterdam, so in comparison, you know ;) --Ouro (blah blah) 06:52, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Miltary Rank on Retirment in the Philippines

Is it correct that an officer upon normal retirement does so one rank up. Eg a Captain on reitrement ecomes a retired Major and a Serving Major on retirement becomes a Retired Lt Colonel. Is it also correct for such an officer to use his Retired Rank as a title. EG Major .... Sioho? 121.54.54.53 (talk) 09:17, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

In the British Army, officers over the rank of Captain are entitled to use their rank as a title (instead of "Mr") in retirement. I strongly suspect that the Phillipines follows US custom in this respect; perhaps somebody else knows or can find out? Alansplodge (talk) 22:19, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Finding your credit card number on the internet

Hi there Reference Deskers.

So I was Googling my grandfather's name and one of the results returned was this Iranian website and this one. Searches for either website haven't turned up anything. I don't want to click on the site itself as I'm at the office and we run crappy IE and I'm afraid of infecting my employer's network.

There's a long number on the site which could be his credit card number, and his address. I'm pretty worried. I know his daughter (my aunt) has access to said card, and could be accused of being a little irresponsible with it. Another difficult bit is the part where I have to explin to my 70-year-old grandfather what has happened and how to make himself safe (which I have no idea about).

Ref deskers! I know you have some kind of magic and know how to find these things out! What are there websites? What do they do? Is it a worry? How do I correct it? And how do I instruct an elderly gent to do this?

Thank you so much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.244.180.83 (talk) 11:54, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Both of them seem to be forums. But they're in what is probably Farsi, which Google Translate can't do — it can do it under "Persian", apparently, but it doesn't seem to be able to make sense of the romanized script. You might ask on the Language desk if someone can read them. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:09, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

You might wish to post your questions on the Persian Reference Desk at http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/ویکی%E2%80%8Cپدیا:میز_مرجع.

—Wavelength (talk) 15:27, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

[I am restoring my original indentation, which was improperly changed. Please see Help:Using talk pages#Indentation.

—Wavelength (talk) 17:42, 19 May 2011 (UTC)]

You might find this Google support page of interest. (Don't search for your complete credit card number on Google.)--Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:35, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I suggest you write down the number, and take (or phone) it to your grandfather to check against the actual credit card number. If it matches, he needs to contact his credit card company immediately and have that card cancelled and a new card issued. Note that it doesn't actually matter what that web site is all about. If, for any reason, they have posted his credit card number, then it has been compromised and must be cancelled. StuRat (talk) 17:32, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

While I agree you should look in to it, I would note the date on the forum post is 2004. The expiry date for the alleged credit cards there are 2004-2006 with possibly one that is 2007. This would suggest at a minimum the CVV has changed and there would also be a new expiry date (although if your bank is similar to mine it would be fairly predictable) presuming your grandfather has kept renewing that card. More importantly the info has been out there for over 7 years. In other words, there's probably no need to call your grandfather in the middle of the night in a panic or whatever. Also if you want to determine if that's really your grandfather's credit card number and it doesn't match any current cards, you'd need to go back to cards he had 7 years ago. If your grandfather does still have a card that matches, even with a new CVV and expiry date, you'd want to change it.

In terms of instructing your grandfather, without understanding the Farsi, it looks to me like the info was likely stolen from insecure stores or harvested from stores someone set-up for the purpose. In either event, you'd want to advise your father to be careful what online stores they shop at. While using the credit card will generally provide some recourse in disputes it also means they could be harvested. Unless you're resonably sure you trust the store themselves, see whether they use a payment gateway that is likely trustworthy and if not see if they accept something like PayPal or just don't use them.

Nil Einne (talk) 13:41, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

The entire threads seem to be only about other people's personal order information. Is this "shabgard.org" some publicly accessible forum for identity and credit information thieves? JIP | Talk 21:59, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

" KABAA".

To the Originator,

Please refer to the word " Kabaa " under which you have given the details of the Kabaa. Out of those details I would like to point out about a line in which you say " some belive that the space left over (Hatim)was the place where Ismail and Hajra burried." I would like to from where this information has been collected and the source from which this perticular information gathered. Please let me know and please respond to my email [email address removed]. If you feel that the line has nothing to do and it has been vague reported then I request you to kindly delete the line. The line appears in to places. Please remove them from the text of the "Kabaa". Because it is unnessarily creating doubts and lots misconceptions among the beleivers. Thanks and looking forward to have positive response from you. Best regards, Muhammad Shakir Hussain —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.248.93.120 (talk) 14:38, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

The information in Kabaa you query is referenced to "Wensinck, A. J; Ka`ba. Encyclopaedia of Islam IV p. 317". That seems to be an eminently good source for such information, and so wikipedia is more than unlikely to remove it, whether or not it causes doubt and misconceptions on the part of believers. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:45, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the questioner's email address as per note at the top of this page: "Do not provide your contact information. E-mail or home addresses, or telephone numbers, will be removed. You must return to this page to get your answer." AndrewWTaylor (talk) 14:50, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Israel & Palestine

"The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state."

What did Obama mean by this? How can a new Palestinian state be contiguous without disrupting the contiguity of Israel. Isn't that like saying NY and California will be joined at the same time as Wisconsin and Texas? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 17:15, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Perhaps he meant that Palestine needs to be "politically contiguous" (meaning one government for both the Gaza Strip and West Bank) versus "geographically contiguous" ?

Or, sticking with "geographically contiguous", perhaps there could be a corridor from one to the other, with bridges or tunnels going across, so neither is blocked. StuRat (talk) 17:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

"Contiguous" means "bordering".[3] Aren't they already bordering each other? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:48, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

The Palestinian territories (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) don't border each other. -- 140.142.20.229 (talk) 20:27, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

They could do, and without splitting Israel in two, if Israel were to cede them a strip of land along the whole Israel-Egypt border, another along the Israel-Jordan border, and the short Gulf of Aqaba coastline. I have no idea whether that was what Obama was suggesting though. --Antiquary (talk) 20:40, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Obama needs to stop taking geography lessons from Sarah Palin. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:47, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Looks like what Obama actually told Israel in the talk was to go back to their 1967 borders. Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:16, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure Israel will be glad to make such concessions once the Palestinian terrorists decide to stop killing Israelis. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm guessing he means the Palestinian part of the West Bank should be one big blob rather than several blobs as has been proposed before. I don't think he means the West Bank and Gaza Strip should be in the same blob. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:41, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

I would think. Connecting the two would be about as practical as trying to connect East and West Pakistan. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:44, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

No, there is a stark difference. Constructing a sealed-off highway between WB and Gaza wouldn't be the 8th Wonder of the World. The distance between the two wings of Pakistan was way bigger. --Soman (talk) 12:35, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm guessing he means give up the land first. Kittybrewster ☎ 13:30, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps Obama is refering more to political continuity than geographic. Since the events of 2006-2007 Hamas has effective control over the Gaza Strip while the West Bank is under the de-facto contol of Fatah, see Fatah–Hamas_conflict#West_Bank:_Fatah_wins_and_establishes_a_separate_government. While many people speak of the Two-state solution as being the only viable, long-term plan for stability in the region, the current political status is of three independent states; with Palestine divided into the Fatah-controlled West Bank and the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip. Such an arrangement is unsustainable, and the vast majority of people seem to agree that there needs to be a reuinification of the Palestinian government into a single entity before further progress can be made towards peace. It is likely a symptom of the poor choice of the word contiguous to describe the desired effect, which is clearly a single unified government for all existing Palestinian land, and NOT some territorial shuffling to give Palestine a contiguous territory. --Jayron32 05:05, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Obama continued with a reference (from memory) to with agreed exchanges of territory. That describes a process that in principle could lead to any conceivable territorial fragmentation, and sounds like an encouragement to the parties to apply the Land for peace principle. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 07:45, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but I still don't think he's refering to ceding, say, pre-1967 Israeli land to create a geographic connection between Gaza and the West Bank; it would be literally impossible to do so without either dividing Israeli territory into two chunks itself, OR cutting off Israeli access to its Red Sea port at Eilat. Such a concept is a complete non-starter; I can't imagine a single person would seriously consider it as a means to solving the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The "exchanges of territory" usually refers to the long-standing request by Palestinians for Israel to end the Israeli settlement within the West Bank area. The perception by Palestinians is that such Israeli settlement are a bold attempt to make the area "Israeli" by pushing the Palestinians out demographically; i.e. to break the control of the Palestinian people over the territory by making it a majority Israeli land simply by settling in the land. "Land for peace" is a sometimes derisive term used by the Israeli position that such lands are intergrally part of Israel proper, as much as Tel Aviv would be. It is a complex problem, and really amounts to deciding what parts of the area are really Israeli, and what parts are Palestinian, and how the actions of Israel, vis-a-vis settlement of the "occupied territories", affect the peace process. --Jayron32 14:40, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Though apparently the name Palestine comes from the Hebrew word for 'to divide'. Perhaps that is more than just a coincidence. 148.197.121.205 (talk) 08:50, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Not from "Phillistines" ? StuRat (talk) 15:48, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh no, Stu. That's an island group in the South China Sea. Don't they teach geography in your country?  :) -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 20:18, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

No Iran?

Iran is not listed on Wikipedia's 'List of Arab countries by population'. Is there a reason for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.74.168 (talk) 17:42, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Possibly because they are Persians, not Arabs? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:46, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Iran is not an Arab country. It has Arabs in it (around 2 million according to Iranian Arab), but by and large they are Persians in both language and ethnicity. --Mr.98 (talk) 18:40, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

The OP may be interested in reading Arab_people#Identity. Being "Arab" is a complex issue, since there are multiple definitions of what it means to be an Arab. Based on the three definitions provided at that page, however (either a) a resident of, or decendent of a resident of, the Arabian Peninsula or Syrian Desert b) a speaker of a dialect of the Arabic language c) a resident of a nation who belongs to the Arab League.) Most Iranians fit none of these categories, excepting the 2 million or so Iranian Arabs noted above. Though a form of Arabic serves as the liturgical language of Islam, non-Arabic Muslims outnumber Arabic Muslims by a sizable amount. Doing a quick check at List of Muslim-majority countries shows that the largest "Arabic" nation, Egypt, is 5th on the list of such counties, and is dwarfed in population by non-Arabic muslim nations like Indonesia and Pakistan. Among the top 4 Muslim nations (all outside of the Arabic world), multiplying their populations by their %Muslims and adding them up gives a figure of 585 million non-Arabic muslims; which is more than the total Arabic population of the world, even including Arabs in non-Arabic countries. --Jayron32 20:48, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Identify a shape

File:General outline of Peru.png

What is this the shape of, please? I believe it's a location (region), but am not certain. It's rotated a bit clockwise (i.e., needs to be rotated a bit counterclockwise to be correct), perhaps ten degrees or so. (The weird cusps all along it are artifacts of my deleting the interior using a circular-shaped eraser. But the shape is essentially correct.)—msh210℠ 21:12, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

An ameoba ? StuRat (talk) 21:17, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

It's Peru. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:35, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

You're both right. It's a Peru-shaped amoeba. Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! Out of curiosity, did you recognize it or figure it out, and, if the latter, then how'd you do it?—msh210℠ 22:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

You can use TinEye for reverse image searches if you ever wonder where pictures come from. Livewireo (talk) 22:46, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

TinEye searches for the exact image (even if it's not the exact image file), not similar ones. In this case, as I made this file from a digital photograph taken today, there won't have been another copy of it online, so TinEye wouldn't have helped. (That said, I nonetheless did check TinEye for this version of the picture — though, admittedly, not for the photograph — and, unsurprisingly, it came up with nothing.)—msh210℠ 23:06, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

You say you photographed the image. Where did you see it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

While hovering over Peru, obviously. Probably looking for Nazca lines.  :) -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 01:49, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

See Dismas' question, below. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:50, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

As part of a certification mark (which was this shape with a lowercase k in it).—msh210℠ 06:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Wait. I'm confused. Did you, the OP, know that it was Peru already? Then what was the point of asking us? Dismas|^(talk) 01:54, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Maybe out to Peru-ve a point. Anyway, the top half looks like Bart Simpson to me. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:36, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I see nothing in the OP's 3 posts suggesting that he/she already knew the answer. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.60 (talk) 07:09, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

It was mostly the part where they said it was modeled after a digital image that was "taken today". They seem to have some knowledge about the original file (e.g. where it came from, etc). Dismas|^(talk) 07:40, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

My reading was that the OP has photographed something with the shape on/in it (a logo, maybe). No big deal, however. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.201.110.8 (talk) 20:31, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Quite right: I had no idea it was Peru.—msh210℠ 06:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I recognized it because...I don't know, I just know what Peru looks like. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:17, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, all right. Thanks again.—msh210℠ 06:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

May 20

Greek withdrawal from the Eurozone

I hear it described as really costly. But why?

Askingaquestion (talk) 04:24, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

What incentive is there for Greece to withdraw? By being part of the Eurozone it benefits from being bailed out of its own financial troubles. If it had never been part of the Eurozone, it would have defaulted on its sovereign debt long ago. From Greece's perspective, its like moving out of mom's basement. If you're broke, at least its a free meal and a roof over your head. Same deal here. --Jayron32 04:40, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

There is the incentive that if its sovereign debt were denominated in its own currency, it could devalue that currency and thus reduce the effective (world-facing) value of that debt. In 2001 Argentina did this (but hesitated until after it had already had to default on its debt). Greece can't because its debt is denominated in Euros, and it has negligible control over the exchange rate of the Euro. I'm not saying that overall doing so is a good idea - there would be major economic consequences to doing so. In reality, in or out of the Euro, defaulted or bailed out or not, Greece and Portugal (in common with countries like Egypt) have major structural weaknesses. Greece has a very healthy tourist sector (which devaluation would help) but its export agriculture is piecemeal, subsidised, and inefficient. But beyond that Greece and Portugal don't produce high value export goods and services and they can't compete with China on low-wage mass production. Leaving the Euro and devaluing their currency so much that they could would make the current austerity programme in Greece seem like the land of milk and honey. 87.113.171.230 (talk) 19:53, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

See also Impossible Trinity —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jabberwalkee (talk • contribs) 03:57, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

The big reason for joining the Eurozone in the first place is that trade within the zone faces very few barriers. Looie496 (talk) 04:46, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

According to a Der Spiegel article Greece is considering withdrawal. [4] I suppose why they want to threaten to do so is a separate question. Withdrawal is described as costly to the entire Eurozone. Why is that? Askingaquestion (talk) 05:05, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I think most of the answers are in the article to which you linked. For Greece it would involve a very large currency devaluation, so imports to Greece wold be very much more costly. For the remaining Eurozone members, it would betoken uncollectable greek debt (Greek debt denominated in Euros would now be, say, 50% more costly for Greece to repay ... it's unlikely enough right now that they have the capacity to repay debts; they'd have much less capacity if the debt now costs half as much again to repay), as well as some loss of confidence in the Euro, leading to a devaluation against the dollar, which again would cost Euro users. Though you didn't ask, I'll add that reverting to a national currency means that Greece would once more be able to set its own monetary policy - and traditionally basket-case economies solve (or ameliorate) some of their problems by devaluing their currency, to diminish imports, encourage exports, and thereby encourage the growth of the national economy. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:39, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Given your explanation, does this possibly portend the downfall of the EU? A domino effect? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:18, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

There's already a domino effect. The bailout of Greece is basically "breaking the ice" on bailouts, and has led to similar bailouts of Ireland and Portugal. At some point Germany is going to get tired of fronting the cash to buoy all of the weaker economies in Europe just to preserve the Union. I would say the greater threat isn't of Greece leaving, but of Germany leaving... --Jayron32 15:30, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I doubt that the Euro will be killed off by the current problems. I think it more likely that some of the PIGS will be asked to leave, before the bulwark countries - France, Germany - decide to call it a day. And the Eurozone != the EU ... the latter is much larger (by number of countries) than the former, existed for many years before the Euro, and has many other functions than the monetary. Even in the case of the complete demise of the Euro, I'm sure the Union will continue. And, of course, the Union will continue to change, as it has done over the last decades. It's by no means a completed project. But this is all speculation, of course, which we try to avoid on this desk. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:57, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Obviously we don't know what will happen, but your comments and others' on what could happen are enlightening. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→

See the excellent article on exactly this subject at [5] where the problem is discussed in detail. It's not a simple issue. Introducing a currency simply to de-value it is not a pleasant thought. Could the inevitably high interest rate such a currency would attract (due to its' risk) compensate, though? 114.78.188.155 (talk) 08:48, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Compensate whom for what? High interest rates compensate borrowers (i.e. those financial institutions that lent to Greece) for the risk they may not be repaid in full (i.e. that they have to "take a haircut"); they would not compensate France or Germany directly. And you wouldn't devalue it, you would let it devalue. Euro membership is keeping Greek goods overpriced/underdemanded (probably). The Greeks would not devalue their own currency, only let it devalue under market conditions. - Jarry1250 ^{[Weasel? Discuss.]} 21:40, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

stargazing starter

which will the best book for a starter in stargazing..is it also possible to find in the pdf format online. please advice thanks in advance.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.72.2 (talk) 06:35, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I suggest H. A. Rey's The Stars: A New Way to See Them (ISBN 0-395-24830-2). BrainyBabe (talk) 17:11, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Living in Mom's basement

Do young Americans generally live in their mom's basement? The few basements in US homes that I have seen are cold concrete walled holes with little natural light and are generally filled with the washing machine and various junk. Alternatively, why would an American mom consign her kid to the basement if they previously had a room elsewhere in the house? Astronaut (talk) 10:09, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Do young Americans generally live in their mom's basement? Erm – no. What are you talking about? ╟─TreasuryTag►voice vote─╢ 10:22, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Not generally, no...this is more of a stereotypical insult for adults who are too socially inept to function in the real world and live in their parents' basement playing video games. It does happen though, I know people who temporarily lived in their parents' basement, even if they previously had a regular bedroom elsewhere in the house (I also know at least one person who indeed does live in the basement because he can't function in the real world, so it's not always a stereotype!). This is usually the choice of the child, not the parent, because the basement seems to be more of a private space. The basement article talks about "finished basements", which are designed to look like the rest of the house (although they will also probably still have a laundry room and storage rooms). I don't think it would be possible to live comfortably in an "unfinished" basement. Adam Bishop (talk) 10:25, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

How "young" is this kid you have in mind? It's not common for babies and toddlers but high school kids who are wanting to put a bit more space between themselves and their parents often like having "a space of their own" away from their parents but still in the same house.

Though my room wasn't down there, my basement growing up was basically what you describe. Storage, a bunch of old and broken toys and junk from my siblings and I, my father's tools and workbench, and the washer/dryer. My basement now in my own house would be a big step up from that. It's "partially finished", meaning that most of the walls have had drywall put up and painted, there's carpet in my wife's office and a rug in mine. The only unfinished rooms are a small storeroom and the laundry room. And even further up the scale would be the basement of my friend's parents house when he was in high school. It was completely finished, had a pool table, carpet throughout, a full bathroom, couches and a big screen TV. My friend's bed room was down there. Dismas|^(talk) 10:29, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

The word "basement" is not to be taken literally; its just a statement on adult children living with their parents long past the age when they should have jobs and homes of their own. It is to be understood metaphorically or idiomatically. Some parts of the U.S. feature homes that regularly have finished basements, while other parts (like the Southern U.S. where I live now) have almost no basements at all. But the concept of adult children freeloading off of their parents is a universally understood idea. --Jayron32 14:28, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

In different parts of the country finished basements are more or less common. So, presumably, using them as a guest room is more or less common. But I agree with above, that it's mostly an generic insult that would work nearly as well in parts of the country where no one has basements at all. APL (talk) 20:17, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Identify bridge in NYC

Hi, can someone tell me how this bridge is called. Seems it is in New York City, but that`s all information. --Pilettes (talk) 16:41, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Looks to me like the Wards Island Bridge. ^Avic_ennasis @ 16:45, 16 Iyar 5771 / 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Looks to me you are right. :) Thank you --Pilettes (talk) 16:50, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I added the picture to the article, since we had no pictures with the lift portion lowered. I thought it appropriate to have this one in there for that purpose. --Jayron32 02:06, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

NDA exams

i wish to prepare for the upcoming NDA exams. I want expert help for the above.Please provide me with instructions and areas where i should concentrate more to pass the exam. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jithinprasad1993 (talk • contribs) 18:12, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, experience has shown that most people here do not live in India and do not know much about Indian exams. The original poster is probably asking about the National Defence Academy exam. I googled NDA exam preparation and got lots of links that you should explore. I should point out that since we know nothing about you, we cannot exactly tell you in what areas you should concentrate more. Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:53, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Discover card transaction notices

I work at a hotel and we accept all major credit cards, including Discover. Every time someone uses their Discover card for payment, a week or so later, I receive a transaction notice in the mail. These notices are not statements listing all the transactions for the week (which would make more sense), but are single notices for every individual transaction. So, if I have three separate people pay with a Discover card on Friday, sometime that next week I will get three separate transaction notices in the mail, usually on the same day. The notices come in letter form, in standard envelopes, by way of the postal service. No other credit card company does this...and I have never found any practical use for these transaction notices. Not only do they seem to be a waste of paper, they also must be a pretty big expense for Discover to send out a notice for every single transaction considering the cost of stationary, printing, and postage. Not to mention the logistical stuff, which I'm sure requires additional man-power to organize and distribute these things. So, why does Discover do this when the other companies do not? Quinn ^{❀ BEAUTIFUL DAY} 18:57, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Have you called their 800 number to ask about it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:14, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't have a citation for you, but I agree with Bugs. It's probably some sort of courtesy service that you can turn off or opt out of. Otherwise places like Amazon.com would need a forklift to deal with all the transaction report envelopes. APL (talk) 20:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I have brought it up when speaking with them regarding other issues...but the precise answer does not seem to be on their "customer support scripts." A courtesy service was exactly how it was described to me. I do not know if I can opt out...that is an interesting idea I will look into next time I get one. I was hoping someone else might be in retail and have encountered this, and could tell me what they do with them. I suppose I could reconcile them with my transactions and deposits...but that's what credit card processors are for. Ah well, upon reflection, I think I may be expressing frustrations over a pet peeve rather than really asking a question, which I realize is not something for the reference desk. So, unless anyone has a definitive answer, I suppose I can just live with it. Thanks, 74.92.180.145 (talk) 20:24, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

May 21

followup question to eurozone withdrawal

"uncollectable greek debt (Greek debt denominated in Euros would now be, say, 50% more costly for Greece to repay ... it's unlikely enough right now that they have the capacity to repay debts; they'd have much less capacity if the debt now costs half as much again to repay), as well as some loss of confidence in the Euro, leading to a devaluation against the dollar, which again would cost Euro users."

So two costs of withdrawal to the eurozone are identified: 1. default of debt to other European countries 2. devaluation of the Euro (because of the default of Greek debt?)

1: But if Greek withdrawal will down the road lead to recovery, won't the Greeks be able to resume paying debts years from now. And won't that recovery have the effect of solving the two identified problems?

2: Are there any other costs to Eurozone countries because of Greek withdrawal?

Askingaquestion (talk) 01:16, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

"New Pence" coins - still OK?

I have some old British "new pence" and £1 coins from the early 1980s. Are they still legal tender in the UK? Do shops accept them? Yuunli (talk) 06:07, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

AFAIK, the "new penny" (1/100 of a pound sterling) is the current penny of the UK, so they should be acceptable coinage no matter when they were minted. There may be issues with an "old penny" (1/240 of a pound sterling), but since those haven't been issued since 1971, you should be OK with anything issued in the 1980s. Penny (British decimal coin) and Penny (British pre-decimal coin) has some background on the two coins. --Jayron32 06:11, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

You are completely correct Jayron. It is possible that the OP believes that the UK uses the euro - which we don't. Richard Avery (talk) 07:00, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

However the five and ten pence coins were both reduced in size (in the 1990s) and the older versions were demonetised, so if you had any of those you wouldn't be able to use them. Mikenorton (talk) 07:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

I've used them before, so I think you could probably just get away with it. I think they are, in metal terms, now worth considerably more than face value (as to be expected). Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 08:35, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

You mean the ones that actually say 'New Pence' on, rather than just 'One Penny' and so on, they are still allowed, noone'll even notice, I'm sure. They only don't still make them because the new penny isn't really that new any more. Same money, they just don't bother writing it all out any more, we are lazy like that here. 148.197.121.205 (talk) 08:45, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

The old 5p and 10p coins might be accepted in a shop (although I doubt it), but don't try using them in a slot machine. A bank might be prepared to exchange them for their more modern counterparts, although I'm not sure about that, but allegedly you can change them at a Post Office at no cost. Mikenorton (talk) 10:41, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

The same applies to the large 50p coin which was replaced with a smaller version in 1997. The larger 5p, 10p, and 50p coins will definitely not be accepted in any shops, but all the other coins are fine. I suspect the story about the metal in some everyday coins being worth more than their face value is a myth, otherwise everyone would be melting them down.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:00, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't think they're worth that much more. I've never had any problem using the old, larger, coins in all manner of shops (although they probably don't have to accept them, as noted). I thought they'd be worth more, as I though this was the reason they were changed. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 14:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you all for your input. So the old 5p, 10p and 50p coins I have may not be accepted, being larger than their modern counterparts. Only the 1p, 2p ("two new pence") and £1 coins shouldn't pose any problems. Yuunli (talk) 14:57, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

The £1 coin hasn't changed its size since it was introduced in 1983 (though there have been several different designs), so there would be no problem with those. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 11:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

The oldest coins currently in circulation are 1p and 2p coins dated 1971. We stopped putting "new" on the coins after 1982 (except for a small number of 1983 2ps which accidentally had the wrong "tails" side put on - if you find one of them you're quite wealthy). Coins from the 1980s are still valid except for the 1/2p coin which was withdrawn in 1984, and also 5p coins dated before 1990, 10p coins dated before 1992, and 50p coins dated before 1997, which were all replaced by smaller designs. The story about some coins being worth more for their metal than face value is only occasionally true, depending on market prices, but it's why 1p and 2p coins are now made from copper-plated steel rather than copper, and are consequently a little thicker than their 1970s/80s equivalents (though they're still in circulation). -- Arwel Parry (talk) 12:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Even if the metal is worth more than the coins say, money isn't supposed to be melted down, and chances are it would cost more to do so than the actual small scraps of resultant copper are worth. Though, the article does say the old copper coins are very rare now. Though I know from experience a significant portion of coins are dated 1971, so I am not sure how accurate that is. 148.197.121.205 (talk) 13:02, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Melting of penny and nickel Coins is a criminal offence in the US and is punishable with a fine of up to $10,000 and/or imprisonment for a maximum of five years Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:00, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Irrelevant, this topic is about British coins. Roger (talk) 15:07, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Not completely irrelevant, as it is likely that the UK has a similar law. In fact, the Royal Mint [6] says "Under Section 10 of the 1971 Coinage Act - no person shall, except under the authority of a licence granted by the Treasury, melt down or break up any metal coin which is currently in circulation in the United Kingdom." The penalty for which [7] is listed as a fine up to £400 and/or imprisonment for a maximum of two years. There are also anecdotal claims that defacing an image of the Queen (which is on all coins of the pound sterling) is considered treason, although I can't find if that was ever true with respect to coins, or even if it was true, if that law has been overturned/superseded. -- 140.142.20.229 (talk) 22:10, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Overturned most likely, or all those elongated coin machines would be illegal. Exxolon (talk) 13:04, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I've never seen one of those in the UK. DuncanHill (talk) 13:11, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

They are all over the place - see [8] for a non-exhaustive list. Exxolon (talk) 13:14, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

The article mentions the legal situation in the US and unspecified parts of Europe (allegedly legal) and Canada (allegedly illegal but usually ignored) but not the UK. I presume the machine itself is unlikely to be illegal, after all you can probably use other coins or blank slugs like they sometimes do in Canada, even if people using it on local coins are technically violating the law. It wouldn't surprise me if an ancient law on defacing an image of the queen/sovereign is widely believed to violate things like the European Convention on Human Rights and has not been tested in court in a long time and is unlikely to ever be tested but was never literally overturned or ruled against. Nil Einne (talk) 16:41, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

A law that is widely obeyed hardly needs ever be overturned. The Queen of GB is much revered by her adoring subjects. All stand for the anthem please. I experienced the case of a British magazine that refused to print a photograph that had a TV in view that happened to be displaying a pound note with the Queen's picture on it.You may be seated. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:48, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

The price of copper has increased slightly since 2006, when this was reported, but only the 1p and 2p coins contain copper worth more than their face value. The 5p, 10p and 50p are only 75% copper and the largest (old 50p) would probably be worth only around 5p for the metal. It's a criminal offence in the UK to destroy a coin (for any coin that has been current in the UK at any time since 16 May 1969) - see Coinage Act 1971 and Treasury guidelines on coins and banknotes, and ccording to the Royal Mint's FAQ some banks may still accept the withdrawn coins. Peter E. James (talk) 15:18, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

May 22

Cats and yarn

--Karen7474 (talk) 01:46, 22 May 2011 (UTC)Why are cats so instinctively attracted to yarn? I can't knit when my cat is in the room.Karen7474 (talk) 01:46, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

The simple answer: Cats love to chase things, especially things that move in a prey-like fashion. When you're knitting, your yarn moves, then stops, then moves, then stops. They're instinctively drawn to kill and eat it. I feel your pain, though. I have four cats - I gave up crocheting when I got a kitten. She was incessant. (Don't let them eat it, unless you want to see string coming out both ends. Eep.) Foofish (talk) 02:27, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

That might be handy, when you want to hang them up to dry. :-) StuRat (talk) 03:12, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't think they'll usually eat it, other than perhaps the tiniest inadvertent nip (which will likely do no harm). They're interested in the thrill of the chase, not the taste of the yarn. 114.78.188.155 (talk) 08:52, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

They might not eat it on purpose, but the backwards pointing filiform papillae on cats' tongues can force the yarn down the gullet accidentally. Matt Deres (talk) 20:15, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Cats do eat on purpose roughage, often grass, to help their digestion and deal with furballs. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:44, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

If your cat does eat yarn, as sometimes happens, and it starts to pass, don't pull it out, as that can seriously harm or kill your cat. John M Baker (talk) 17:08, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Cell phone upside down?

I was watching an episode of Heroes and noticed something that I thought was strange. This screenshot shows a woman holding a cellphone. The camera angle is from her lap, basically. So you're looking up at her as she's speaking on the phone. The darker bit on the cell phone near the top of the image is the cover for the headphone jack. The wording next to the silver bit at the bottom says "Lock". So, is this (in my experience with cell phones) an unusual phone in that it has the lock button and headphone jack on the bottom of the phone? Or did the actress just screw up and hold the phone incorrectly? Not the most interesting of questions, I know, but forgive me. Dismas|^(talk) 09:30, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

From my experience many or even most phones do have the headphone jack at the bottom of the phone so I wouldn't call the unusual. I don't know about lock buttons, the only phone I've ever used with a physical sliding lock button had it at the side which seems a good place for it but given how uncommon it is I don't now if there's really any common location. P.S. Also worth remembering this is potentially a prop, perhaps the lock button is even just part of the prop and is put there so it's unlikely to be seen. Nil Einne (talk) 09:45, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

(ec) Every cellphone I have ever owned (all Nokia) had the headphone socket on the bottom except for the one I have now - it's socket is on the top. None has a "lock" button. I'm a bit puzzled about why anyone would automatically expect the socket to be on top, surely it can be just about anywhere on the "edge". The bit you have identified as the "the cover for the headphone jack" looks to me a lot like a USB socket. Roger (talk) 09:55, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

It's hard to make out in the picture but when I had the video playing in full screen, the headphone symbol was visible on the rubber cover. It wasn't the USB symbol. And all but my first cell phone have had the headphone jack on the top. Dismas|^(talk) 10:20, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Most valuable non-drug crops by area cultivated?

In countries like Afghanistan, Myanmar, and Columbia, growing opium and coca is obviously very profitable. Trying to get farmers to voluntarily grow other crops is obviously a big challenge. My question is: per hectare cultivated, what are the most valuable "licit" (non-drug) crops? I'm interested in any horticulture, so feel free to include trees, shrubs, etc. Include those which need a particular climate / soil type, however rare. Just please exclude truffles and other fungi - (they aren't "plants"). Also please exclude those crops that generally can't be "cultivated", such as Kopi Luwak. I'm assuming a situation where quality cultivation techniques, expertise, logistics, supplies and equipment are all available, enabling efficient output. (Note: this is not a homework question. I've puzzled about this question for a while). Eliyohub (talk) 11:03, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

According to one North Dakota study "the average profit per acre on cash-rented land was $133 for pinto beans, $83 for barley, $74 for canola, $53 for soybeans, $33 for spring wheat and $17 for oil sunflowers. However, corn lost an average of $34 per acre in 2009." which covers the big crops, I think. (I can only view a cached version of hte source, which I won't link, but you can google that.) This is clearly dwarfed by wine, which in some parts makes $5,500 per acre (since we're allowing the special climatic and location conditions). Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 11:16, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

According to here (which has some cites) mentions vanilla ($480,000 per acre (!) - might want to check that, specifically about the costs); Ginseng $30k an acre; Strawberries $20k. Tobacco is mentioned, but I can't see a figure. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 11:23, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

(edit) My brief research has thrown up tomato, strawberry, vanilla, ginseng (big upfront costs, though). Not sure about hardwood trees (which take years to develop, but can fetch high prices). Vanilla needs to be polinated by hand, which is very labour-intensive. I saw that straightdope forum thread too. Does anything come close to the profits of drug cultivation, though? And if not, what comes closest? Eliyohub (talk) 11:26, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Illegal crop cultivation is resisted by a Carrot and stick approach and this question is about metaphorical carrots. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:29, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

What about saffron? Roger (talk) 11:37, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Saffron is very valuable, but the yield per acre is very low. 58.170.214.229 (talk) 11:50, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

So, should all countries with a large pool of cheap labour and suitable climate / soil be taking up vanilla cultivation? Or am I missing something? I accept the price may be temporarily inflated (the Madagascar floods), but even if it fell by 75% to $120,000 per acre it would seem to be way out of proportion. What's missing in this picture? Why aren't more countries taking it up? 58.170.214.229 (talk) 11:50, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Possibly. There are lots of problems with primary product dependency, and moving to a more niche product like vanilla exacerbates those issues. - Jarry1250 ^{[Weasel? Discuss.]} 13:36, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Madagascar suffered floods and lost a lot of their crop, making the price spike. Culinary and perfume tastes can change, reducing demand and price. But couldn't these problems be mitigated simply by the farmer buying a futures contract or saving for a rainy day? And, to re-iterate the original question, can anything culitvable compare to drug cultivation in terms of profit? What about Musk deer? With "live" harvesting techniques (i.e. not killing the deer) could it help afghans compete with the opium trade? (I know this is livestock, not plants, but I'm just curious). 121.219.104.148 (talk) 14:06, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm no economist, but assuming the soils and climate of Afghanistan, Myanmar and Colombia are suitable for vanilla, wouldn't the price of vanilla plummet from oversupply? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 14:58, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

[9] discusses some of the issues surrounding growing more vanilla in Uganda Nil Einne (talk) 10:04, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Not directly answering the Q, but I see 2 solutions to Afghanistan growing illegal drugs:

1) Legalize drugs. This will lower the price and allow them to grow their crop without having to hide from authorities, which drives them to seek protection from the Taliban.

2) Offer permanent financial incentives not to grow drugs. Don't give cash, as the Taliban will get their hands on it and use it to buy weapons. Instead, after inspecting a farmer's field and finding it to be drug-free, give them lots of food, clothing, and other supplies. Yes, the Taliban might get hold of those, too, but would have extra work to turn them into weapons. Those inspections would need to be frequent, or else the farmers might harvest a poppy field, destroy the evidence, then get their handouts, too. StuRat (talk) 15:31, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure farmers will be happy with your 'no cash' policy? Or are you going to threaten to kill them if they don't agree to your conditions? Nil Einne (talk) 10:06, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I suspect that if you really want to maximise your value-added per hectare, you process the foodstuff as much as possible on-site. Get labels, like organic and fair-trade. Peppercorns of different colours in a fancy jar rather than just peppercorns. It helps if you know the whims of the upmarket Western consumer well. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:53, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

The correct answer to this question is that there is no correct answer. THere are far too many unknowns (climate, soil, labour costs etc) to even arrive at a general theoretical answer. And then there are the risk factors. You cannot predict future prices (which depend to some extent on the decisions that others in a similar situation make), and it is often more rational to go for a 'less risky' strategy than the theoretical 'best' one. 'Market forces' may suggest that growing nothing but potatoes makes economic sense. Experience may show otherwise. And then there is the question as to whether you are going for short-term profit, or sustainability. You can increase crop yeilds greatly by pumping out groundwater... and leave a desert to your children. In the context of Afghanistan, there is also the problem of delivering your crops to market in a situation where the transport infrastructure is heavily compromised by corruption, bribery and the like. It is entirely possible that opium poppies aren't the most profitable crop, but are instead the crop that is easiest to guarentee some sort of income from. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:06, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Poppy has some strong advantages to the local farmers. It's a yearly crop, so you can rapidly change to poppy production when the political and market conditions are favourable. The farmers know how to cultivate and process it. It grows well under local conditions. The product has high value, is easy to transport, and does not spoil. It's not easy to compete with that. Also, of course, both the US and the EU subsidising their local farming to the hilt does not really help the world market... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:01, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Serious question: How valuable are these illegal crops? I have been under the impression that every step of the drug trade involved a large markup, so that the packagers, wholesalers, transporters, and dealers, etc., were all adding a large overhead to the cost. My impression has been that the farmers get paid well, but only a few times more than they might make from legitimate crops, and not orders of magnitude more. Obviously it is to the dealers benefit to keep the payments to farmers as low as they reasonably can. So what do we really know about the value of illicit crops to the farmer? Dragons flight (talk) 06:19, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure that actually matters, though. Let's say the drug cartel could pay up to $1000 an acre, but currently only pays $200 an acre. You may come along with a crop that pays $250 an acre, but then the drug producers would just up their offer. So, unless you have a crop that pays more than the maximum the drug producers can offer, you're not going to win. StuRat (talk) 06:29, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Agarwood and Pink Ivory seem to be extremely valuable types of wood. Neutrality^talk 06:24, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Coins and notes

I think I have asked this previously, but cannot remember when. Why do people use coins for low-valued cash units and notes for high-valued cash units? At the moment, I can only think of two possible reasons:

• Coins are far more durable, making them easier to handle in more frequent transactions.
• Notes allow for more intricate security features, which are required in transactions worth a large amount.

Am I right here, and are there other reasons? JIP | Talk 19:47, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

What do you mean by "cash unit", JIP? It's easy to see why one would not pay a $100 charge in coins, or could not pay for a 20-cent box of matches with a note. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 20:14, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I think they are asking why there isn't a $100 coin and 20-cent note 82.43.89.63 (talk) 20:16, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

82.43.89.63 is right. By "cash unit" I mean a physical object that has been officially designated to convey the specified monetary value in a single object. JIP | Talk 20:34, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Your question was oddly worded, then. It's not about what "people use", because people use whatever notes and coins their governments make for them to use. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 20:42, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

People do make choices, though, which is why the US 1-dollar coin and 2-dollar bill are such rare birds. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:01, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I think it has more of a historical basis. According to Banknote#Banknotes in Europe, it wasn't convenient to transport large quantities of coins in medieval Europe, so paper took over that function. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:27, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

But it is an interesting question. We used to have 10/- (ten shilling) and £1 notes in the UK before decimalisation. They were replaced by coins (though there are still £1 in Scotland), and later £2 coins were also issued. There is a clear supposition here that coins should be used below some value and notes above; but I don't recall any reasons given. --ColinFine (talk) 20:47, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

It's important to keep in mind that when all this was implemented originally, a pound or dollar was a good amount of money. A day's wages or more! Most working class people would not be wandering around town with a wallet full of paper money. Paper money was basically a tool for the rich, and maybe the occasional big-ticket purchase for the working class. APL (talk) 22:15, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Why make handling cash any harder than it already is for an impoverished blind person? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 07:54, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we have answered the question at all. Why is it not reversed? Why don't governments around the world make $100 coins and 10 cents notes (or equivalents)? Is it a question of difference of cost of making these kinds of artefacts?--Lgriot (talk) 08:06, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Given the weight of a silver dollar, imagine lugging a hundred of them around, and maybe the choice of paper money for large denominations will become clearer. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:08, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

That breaks down at some point. I often have several dimes and quarters in my pocket. Paper notes would make them weigh quite a bit less. Though I rarely have a $20 bill, so a coin would be fine. And I don't think I'm that unusual in this respect, especially with the prevalence of debit cards. I think the OP's original ideas are quite right when it comes down to the why's of coins and notes. And, though he put it in small text for some reason, Cuddlyable makes a good point about the handicapped or elderly. Those people likely have a hard time with coins. But bills are bigger and easier to read. Dismas|^(talk) 08:26, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Ease of reading is not a big advantage to a blind person, which is what whoever the numberless Cuddlyable is must have meant. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:41, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

First; many peoples registered as blind have a limited degree of vision, and some jurisdictions deliberately print banknotes' values in large numbers, or add other ovious symbols, to help that portion of the 'blind' population.

Second; some jurisdictions also make each denomination of banknote a different size, and may add other features, which can aid even totally blind people to distinguish them. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195> 90.201.110.142 (talk) 15:58, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I would say because of their size and weight, coins are generally much easier to lose then notes. Nil Einne (talk) 09:53, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

The major advantage of coins is their durability. In an unscientific survey – taking a random handful of eight low-denomination coins from the dish on my desk – 50% are more than a decade old, and 25% are more than twenty-five years old. For comparison, the average lifetime of small-denomination U.S. banknotes ranges from 16 to 42 months: [10]. Nearly half of all the banknotes minted by the U.S. government are one-dollar bills. This article pegs the expected lifespan of circulating coins at 30 years, and of paper dollar bills at just 17 months. In 2000, it was estimated that a switch to dollar coins would save a bit more than half a billion dollars per year in minting costs.

Coins in the U.S. are also more accessible than banknotes to the blind or vision impaired. U.S. paper notes are all the same color (or nearly, with the recent redesigns), shape, and size. The vision impaired, the elderly, and out-of-country tourists all have difficulty telling notes of different denominations apart. Coins, on the other hand, have a range of sizes, weights, colors, and patterns of edging about their circumferences; different denominations can be readily distinguished by appearance or by touch. Some countries (the U.S. will soon be one) have attempted to incorporate tactile features into their notes, however these marks tend to wear out with time. Euro notes (among many other non-U.S. notes) of different denominations are at least clearly different in size and color.

Paper notes are more costly for applications involving automated handling and counting. Vending machines and parking meters accepting only coins are cheaper and more reliable than ones that have to handle banknotes. SEPTA (a transit service) reported that counting and handling dollar coins would cost them about a tenth as much as dealing with the same number of dollar bills. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:42, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

So that makes coins more durable, cheaper and more reliable to use, and easier to tell apart. Why do banknotes exist at all then? Is it only because they're lighter and capable of more advanced security features? JIP | Talk 17:43, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I wonder if the answers have changed substantially since this question was raised a couple of weeks ago? The fact is, the US government gives us a choice of 1-dollar bills and 1-dollar coins. And the overwhelmingly popular choice is 1-dollar bills. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:55, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

In some sense, it's like the metric system. An across-the-board switch from one system to another would be significantly expensive to carry out. It's basically inertia: Why change just to be changing? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:57, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

If coins are so great, why were banknotes invented in the first place? Using only coins all along would have saved the trouble of switching to only coins. Well, I guess the reason why banknotes were invented is that they were originally statements that their holder has the right to so-and-so many coins instead of actual currency, and they just gradually became actual currency over time. JIP | Talk 18:07, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Paper is obviouly much more convenient to carry than heavy metal objects (except to the vision-impaired, as noted). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:23, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

But then, why are notes always more valuable than coins? Wouldn't it make more sense to have one heavy object equal several light ones, instead of one light object equal several heavy ones? JIP | Talk 18:55, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

They're not always more valuable, as in the US we have the much-used dollar bill and the much-ignored dollar coin. And why weigh down your pockets with 20 large coins when a 20 dollar bill weighs almost nothing? Wallets typically have either no change holder at all or a small change holder. So folks might carry just enough coins ("small change") as they feel the need to, and the rest might go into a big jar at home, to be taken to the bank and get deposited or exchanged for bills once it gets full (and very heavy). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:07, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that you in the US have both dollar bills and dollar coins at the same time. But still I think notes are always not less valuable than coins. Or can you name any place in the world where notes are less valuable than coins? But anyway, my earlier question is still valid. If we assume that one $1 coin weighs a gram, and one $100 note weighs .01 grams, then the weight difference between the coins and the note of the same monetary value is ten-thousand-fold. If it were the other way around (with $1 notes and $100 coins) the weight ratio and the monetary value ratio would be identical. I really cannot see any other reason for notes being higher (or equal) valued than coins other than hysterical raisins or better security features. JIP | Talk 19:15, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I dont think bugsy is really answering the question when he talk about the weight of coins - if you could have a £20 coin there is no reason it would weigh more than a £1 coin now that the value of the coin is not the metatal it is made of. why cant you have a £20 coin for the blind??? Sally james langley (talk) 19:23, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the point made by Baseball Bugs may be key to answering this question. He says: "The fact is, the US government gives us a choice of 1-dollar bills and 1-dollar coins. And the overwhelmingly popular choice is 1-dollar bills."

Coins have less intellectual appeal. They make the person spending them feel brutish. Paper money appeals to our sense of being intellectual beings. When we spend paper cash we feel that we are exchanging the concept of value instead of exchanging a physical object of value. This boosts our sense of being refined entities rising above the mere animal kingdom. Objects of value can be exchanged by some species but I am not aware of any form of life exchanging symbolic value. Bus stop (talk) 19:21, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

May 23

Composting

I've recently begun recycling my vegetable and fruit peelings by placing them in my yard waste bin (the one that is supposed to take grass and leaves from the yard), instead of using a compost pile. Is this OK? Do I need to start a compost pile instead? Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 00:47, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

You're putting fruit and veggie peals in yard waste bins that are collected by the city?

That is probably not ok. Most cities have pretty strict rules about what counts as yard waste and what doesn't.

You'll need to check local rules to be sure on this. Your city probably has a web page, and if not, a phone call to the dump or to city hall would answer your question. APL (talk) 03:38, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

See the article Compost. Composting works best with free access of the organic matter to air, worms and fungi. This is not the case inside a closed bin. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 07:47, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I've never had much luck with closed containers for composting. At least, not for producing quality stuff to use in the garden. Open air is best. This is what I've done, and it works great: Place a small chain-link dog kennel in the yard away from the house. They come in all different sizes, and basically help keep the larger critters out of the food scraps. In the kitchen sink, I keep a plastic straining basket in which I place food scraps (vegetable peels, coffee grounds, etc) from throughout the day. At the end of the day, I rinse the scraps in the basket, and then empty it into the center of the kennel. I also keep a bucket of soil next to the kennel with a small spade. One scoop of soil on top of one basket of scraps, turn over the pile over with a shovel once or twice a season, and add a container of earthworms from the local bait shop in the spring and fall. At the end of the season you'll have a large pile of rich black soil. Caution: The kennel will only discourage dogs and other scavengers from getting to the food scraps, and spreading the around the yard. You will get mice, raccoons, cats and other scavengers digging around in the compost on occasion, but they will generally stay inside the kennel and not create a mess.)Quinn ^{❀ BEAUTIFUL DAY} 15:48, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Eep...I think I just gave advice on making good compost rather than answering if it is OK to put food scraps in with your yard clippings. Where I live, at least, doing so is a no-no. we can only put grass and shrub clipping in the containers that the municipality picks us. A couple times a year, leaves are OK too. But food scraps have to either go in the compost pile, the garbage disposal, or in with the regular un-sorted garbage. Call you're local Waste Control office (or the equivalent in your area) and inquire. Quinn ^{❀ BEAUTIFUL DAY} 15:57, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

questio about up/down loading pictures

I was born and raised in Pgh. Pa. While in my hometown during Thanksgiving 2007 I discovered that August Wilson lived on Bedford Ave. around the corner from my family home and my sister still lived there today. I visited Mr.Wilsons former home and took photos of a plaque which has been placed in front of the house. I am very proud of Pittsburghers who succeed and feel that a pic of the plaque should be placed on his Wikipedia Bio but I dont know how to get the pics from my pc to his page (Im not that pc literate).

Thanks, Carmen Wilson

There is a link on the left-hand side of the Wikipedia page called "Upload file". Clicking it will send you to Wikipedia:Upload. Follow the instructions there. JIP | Talk 03:52, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Let us know when that is done, and we can also help place the pic in the article. StuRat (talk) 05:36, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

You will also find helpful people here. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 07:41, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Public Domain Bagpipe Music?

Is there anywhere I can find public domain or CC-BY bagpipe music? --CGPGrey (talk) 07:57, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

SoundCloud has some bagpipe tunes that are under a creative commons license, e.g. Amberplush (from Seven Pipers Society) and of course the classic Scotland the Brave. Not sure of too many other websites that offer CC music, though. Good luck! ^Avic_ennasis @ 10:14, 19 Iyar 5771 / 23 May 2011 (UTC)

drop down pop up

Hello can you please help me, with my email account on the page where i log in, in the bit where i say sallyjameslangley@yahoo.com once I accidentally typed the email address and the password because I forgot to press enter or tab to go onto the password box so if my password was Dav1dDuch0vny which it isnt by thw way so dont even try but now when i go to type in my email it drops down the options "sallyjameslangley@yahoo.com" and "sallyjameslangley@yahoo.comDav1dDuch0vny" when it tries to complete the sentence, which obviously isnt a good thing because my email address and my password are both there togther and hackers could get them. So can you please tell me how to sort this out. Thank you! Sally james langley (talk) 15:15, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

If I understand correctly, I don't think you have anything to worry about unless you are using a public computer, or if you have friends/family/roommates who also use the same computer. The mistaken e-mail/password information is probably only saved on your computer. Clearing your browsing history would probably take care of it if it bothers you. But I'd still advise changing your password if you have any doubts. Quinn ^{❀ BEAUTIFUL DAY} 15:26, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I concur, and offer the additional: generally, if you see something in a dropdown that you don't want, just hover over it and press the 'delete' key. — Lomn 15:54, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Note that if you are saving the password in your browser in addition to the username this is not really much better. Although the password may not normally be displayed, this isn't going to stop any but the most casual of people interested in stealing your password (unless they are encrypted and additional password is required to access your saved passwords in which case at least they can't be accessed when this password has not been entered or saved in memory). Really the only additional risk is someone without any specific malicious intent may happen to see your password. Some people would suggest it's generally worse since it gives a false sense of security. In addition if you don't really trust people with access to the computer or have poor security practices allowing a 'hacker' to get access, they could easily install a keylogger or similar and do a lot of other nasty things, accidentally having saved your password in the username field is not a big concern. Nil Einne (talk) 17:22, 23 May 2011 (UTC)