Talk:Maize

Maize vs. corn: Summary of arguments

Here are the leading arguments on both sides of the maize-vs.-corn debate. In the future, instead of saying, "This has all been argued before," you can provide a link to this section so that new disputants can quickly get caught up. Contra the usual talk-page policy, I give you my permission to edit this section to make the arguments clearer or more persuasive, or to add arguments that I omitted. Please do not edit to weaken arguments, please do not add personal invective, and please do not sign your contributions. This section is for a clear and concise statement of the reasons for each position, not for back-and-forth arguing or conversation. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 12:29, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Pro-maize

"Maize" is precise, "corn" is ambiguous

"Maize" is the vernacular word that means the species of plant that this article is about, in all regional varieties of English. "Corn" has a confusing variety of meanings that vary by locality. In particular, one common meaning of "corn" is whichever cereal crop is the staple in a given locality.

3a. collective singular. The seed of the cereal or farinaceous plants as a produce of agriculture; grain.

As a general term the word includes all the cereals, wheat, rye, barley, oats, maize, rice, etc., and, with qualification (as black corn, pulse corn), is extended to leguminous plants, as pease, beans, etc., cultivated for food. Locally, the word, when not otherwise qualified, is often understood to denote that kind of cereal which is the leading crop of the district; hence in the greater part of England ‘corn’ is = wheat, in North Britain and Ireland = oats; in the U.S. the word, as short for Indian corn, is restricted to maize (see 5).

5. orig. U.S. Maize or Indian corn, Zea Mays; applied both to the separated seeds, and to the growing or reaped crop. corn on the cob: green maize suitable for boiling or roasting; maize cooked and eaten on the cob.

Wheat, rye, barley, oats, etc. are in U.S. called collectively grain. Corn- in combinations, in American usage, must therefore be understood to mean maize, whereas in English usage it may mean any cereal; e.g. a cornfield in England is a field of any cereal that is grown in the country, in U.S. one of maize.

—Oxford English Dictionary's definition of "corn"

Wikipedia's guidelines for naming articles about plants favor using the scientific term unless the plant has a significant agricultural (or other) use, as this plant does; then, discuss towards consensus, favoring both precision and a vernacular term.

Pro-corn

"Maize" is a formal, obscure word

Many more people know the word "corn" than know "maize". "Maize" is a somewhat formal word, not as widely known. WP:COMMONNAME says that article titles should not be "pedantic". Maize is very common.

Searchability

Google searches show the word "corn" used much more than "maize". Consequently, readers are much more likely to look up "corn" than "maize". Titling the article "Corn" would make the information easy for most people to find. Titling it "Maize" makes it hard for people to find.

Objection On 1-Oct-2012, this article came up as the #1 result on Google and Bing, and the #2 result on Yahoo!. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn redirects to Maize. Calling this article "Maize" is not presenting an obstacle for people looking up "corn", even for people who don't know the word "maize".

The U.S. usage should prevail

The U.S. has more native English speakers than any other country. Wikipedia would show anti-American bias by not following U.S. usage where it conflicts with other usages.

Objection The English Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org) does not favor any national variety of English; see WP:ENGVAR. The English language today is the world's leading lingua franca. English is a second language for the great majority of its speakers, most of whom do not live in the U.S. See English language#Geographical distribution and List of countries by English-speaking population.

The English language is not the American language. That is not however relevant here. What is relevant is that in the USA (primarily) corn has a different meaning to that understood by most other English speakers. As a native speaker of New Zealand English (49 years) I dispute the suggestion that "corn" in New Zealand means maize. Sweet corn is the term generally used in NZ - not corn- precisely because there are other types of corn.203.184.41.226 (talk) 00:51, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Inconsistent with other usage

No one says "popmaize", "maize on the cob", etc. The WP:FLORA guidelines say to favor consistency.

| quote = 2. spec. The small hard seed or fruit of a plant; now only with contextual specification or defining attribute, as in barley-corn, pepper-corn, etc.

a. A seed of one of the cereals, as of wheat, rye, barley, etc.

—Oxford English Dictionary's definition of "corn" }}

It isn't unusual for regional terminology to vary according to context. For example, small sweets are called "candy" in the U.S. and "lollies" in Australia, but Americans and Australians alike enjoy "lollipops" and "candy canes"; no one calls them "candy pops" or "lollicanes".

Corn in non-U.S. usage

Some readers have offered anecdotes of personal experience, observing that if you asked for "maize" in a restaurant in England, the waiter would look at you funny. A reader offered a recipe from a British web site (no longer available) that listed "corn from 1 corn-cob, removed and toasted" among its ingredients. These show that in the present day, even outside the U.S., the specific sense of "corn" to mean maize has displaced its older, generic sense of any cereal grain or a local staple grain.

Objection These examples actually illustrate the complexity and ambiguity of the word "corn". The word "cob" provides context that shifts the meaning of "corn" to maize, even in England. People do refer to maize as "corn" outside the U.S., but usually with some sort of qualifier, such as "sweet corn".

Other encyclopedias say "corn"

Britannica's article about this plant is titled "corn", therefore "corn" means the same thing in British usage.

Objection Despite its name, Britannica is an American publication, following U.S. usage.

New (?) arguments about maize vs. corn

Some folks have started to argue back and forth in the "Summary of arguments" section. As noted there, that section is to summarize only the leading arguments that have already been made, not for back-and-forth signed arguments or commentary. No harm done, though; I'll just move the new stuff down here. Once things have gotten hashed out, if anything genuinely new and important emerges, I or someone else can summarize it in the "Summary" section. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 02:21, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Historical reference

Such are potatoes and maize, or what is called Indian corn, the two most important improvements which the agriculture of Europe, perhaps, which Europe itself, has received from the great extension of its commerce and navigation.

- Adam Smith (1776), Wealth of Nations

Prior to the 19th century, the term "corn" was often used to refer to wheat (such was when Adam Smith refers to "The corn of Poland") whilst the term "Indian corn" was used to refer to "maize" (see quote box).--Discott (talk) 11:39, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Objection It is no longer prior to the 19th century. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shicoco (talk • contribs) 14:25, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

This seems like a very small point to me. 18th-century usage might be worth mentioning someplace in this or another article (especially Corn laws), but, as Shicoco suggests, the name of the Wikipedia article in 2013 should reflect usage in 2013. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 02:21, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Shicoco's objection is a fair one and I agree withe Ben Kovitz that it might be nice to have a historical mention of previous use of the word some where. However I also feel that although it is indeed a very small point it is one still worth taking into account. Historical precedence does count for something. Even if it isn't very much. --Discott (talk) 20:27, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Missing the point completely. As the article said last time I looked, "corn" remains the standard collective term for grain crops (of the wheat type - not rice etc) in British English & that of much of the world. Furthermore, maize is excluded from this - a field of wheat, barley, or oats is a field of corn, but a field of maize is not. Even American translations of the Bible still tend to use "corn" in this sense, to the bewilderment of some less well-informed Americans - see this search (the first link is quite informative). Does one have to keep repeating these basic points forever? Johnbod (talk) 09:49, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Objections regarding WP:ENGVAR

Objection to the objection Just because, if counting L2-English speakers, the majority does not live in the US, it does not mean that the did not learn American English English. For L2 speakers in many parts of Asia as well as virtually all of South America, American English is exactly what they learn, therefore the term they use is "corn". Your objection simply isn't cogent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.95.61.31 (talk) 08:15, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

This doesn't really address the objection. WP:ENGVAR says that we should prefer to avoid privileging one national variety of English, not that we should favor the usage with the majority of speakers. I don't know whether the British or the American usage has more speakers, whether native or as a second language. As Newzild points out below, British English is what usually gets taught throughout the world. If you want numbers, you could look List of countries by English-speaking population, but it really doesn't matter, because maize is the international, unambiguous word, and corn is a word with peculiar geographic subtleties. So, maize accords with WP:ENGVAR, and corn doesn't. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 02:21, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Another objection to the objection From Wp:ENGVAR: "Universally used terms are often preferable to less widely distributed terms." 'Corn' is used in America, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, and is understood virtually everywhere else. Maize is misunderstood by a large population. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.253.135.21 (talk) 14:13, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

The situation is peculiar, because the word corn is better-known than maize, but maize is international and unambiguous, whereas corn has a complicated variety of meanings that vary from country to country and context to context. Maize is the word used in English writing for an international audience. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 02:21, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Objections to various objections First of all, while it is true that the United States has the greatest number of English speakers, it is not true that the majority of English speakers live in the US. Therefore, US English is not automatically the default variety of English based simply on numbers of speakers. Secondly, while it is true that some Asians do learn American English, the majority of Asians do not. Countless millions of people in India, Malaysia (where I live), Indonesia, Hong Kong, Turkey and Thailand learn and speak British English. Thirdly, nobody in Asia uses the word "maize", whether they speak British English or American English. Asian English speakers universally say "corn". As for myself, I am New Zealander. I had never even heard of "maize" until I was in my 20s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzild (talk • contribs) 04:16, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Corn with a qualifier outside the U.S.

It's just wrong to say that people outside the US "usually" use a qualifier with the word "corn". People outside the US just say "corn". A lot of people outside the US don't even know what "maize" is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzild (talk • contribs) 04:20, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to see more data about this. In my own experience, I've usually seen British writing put corn in a compound form or otherwise use a qualifier, such as "sweet corn" or "corn-on-the-job", but I would defer to experts who've systematically surveyed the variations in usage. I understand that New Zealand follows the U.S. convention (though we still don't have a good source for this!). Perhaps the objection should be reworded to refer to the U.S. usage rather than just the U.S. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 02:21, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Not true. I have never heard "corn" referring to maize in the UK. I live in a rural area and corn invariably means either wheat (usually) or barley (occasionally). Maize is referred to as "corn-on-the-cob" or "sweetcorn".--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 15:01, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Granted, the UK seems to prefer "maize". However, the UK appears to be the ONLY country that prefers maize! So far, comments from Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians and Americans have all favoured "corn". It seems to be only a few Brits who are objecting to the use of "corn" at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.75.238.144 (talk) 09:38, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

UK-born and raised, US-resident here. For me, "corn" in an agricultural context unequivocally means wheat. In a culinary context it could mean maize in some uses, but only in combinations such as "sweetcorn", "corn on the cob", or "cornflour". Grover cleveland (talk) 19:07, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

That may be a common UK view, but are you sure you can tell the difference between a field of wheat & one of barley? I certainly couldn't. There's no question that historically "corn" meant any long-stalked cereal crop, which is why even American Bible translations stick with "corn", as they can't know which of the various possible cereal crops was meant. Johnbod (talk) 19:18, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

I could definitely tell the difference between a field of wheat and a field of maize :) Grover cleveland (talk) 15:58, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Objection to the dictionary

Someone inserted this in the middle of the pro-maize argument:

Objection 'Corn' is the only word used in the United States (the area from which this plant originated), and the word 'maize' is confusing to many people. 'Corn' can also means 'maize' in most other varieties of English, and the confusion it may cause to those readers would be less than the confusion it is causing to greater-in-number American readers.

This doesn't seem to me to be a real objection to the pro-maize argument, but rather a denial of what's in the OED and opposition to WP:ENGVAR. According to the article, the plant was first domesticated in Mesoamerica, but I don't think it matters where the plant originated. Confusing readers does matter, but we have to weigh that against other factors. The summary addresses all these factors already, so I guess I just have to say, "This has all been argued before. Please read the summary, and then if you have something new to say that hasn't already been refuted or outweighed, please bring it up in a new section." —Ben Kovitz (talk) 02:21, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Corn is most widely used (?)

Someone added this as a new pro-corn argument:

Corn is the term used in the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Neither corn nor maize is used in South Africa, and corn is understood in the UK (according to what I've read).

That more people know the word corn than maize is already covered in another pro-corn argument, and it has no objection. Unlike the other pro-corn arguments, it has not been refuted. It simply has to be weighed against the (one) pro-maize argument. That corn is the term used in the U.S. is covered in another pro-corn argument, though not the other countries. The objection (WP:ENGVAR) still applies, though. We have a pro-corn argument called "Usage data", but it actually talks about Google searches. If you have some data about the frequency and locations of the different usages, that would be informative. Maybe it could even go in the article. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 02:21, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

File:Corn flakes box South Africa.jpg

A picture of a South African box of corn flakes

In South Africa the word corn is commonly understood to mean mealies (as it is commonly known in the country- see picture). However the terms "corn" and "maize" are pretty much equally interchangeable in the country. " Mealie" remains the most common name for maize in the country.--Discott (talk) 20:43, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

"Corn" is not understood in britain as maize. If I hadn't been to the US I would never have heard of the term.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 15:04, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Need a source for corn=maize usage in Australia and New Zealand

The article currently says that in Australia and New Zealand, corn means maize, but we don't have a source for it. I've looked, and while I've found enough to convince me that the fact is correct, I still haven't found a reputable reference work to cite. I deleted claims that corn=maize in Asia (even India?). I've found no source to support that. I also deleted a similar claim about Canada. If you a reliable source for any of these, please add it to the article, or post it here and I'll add it. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 03:04, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Canada - you can't have looked very hard. Rmhermen (talk) 05:11, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I didn't look for a source for Canada. Do you know of one? —Ben Kovitz (talk) 07:46, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Take any of the first page of hits on Google - really we don't need top cite or remove non-controversial information. The sky is blue, man! Rmhermen (talk) 04:47, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Holy moly, I found a legitimate source for Canadian usage! (I really didn't know which usage Canada has.) Just added it. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 20:14, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Why do you need a source? I'm a New Zealander who has also lived in Australia, South Korea and currently in Malaysia. "Corn" is the prefered usage in all four of those countries (including South Koreans using English as a second language). I've never heard "maize" being used in any of those countries, although my experience in Australia is limited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.75.238.144 (talk) 09:42, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Because all facts in Wikipedia need a source. Wikipedia is a summary of information already published elsewhere in reliable sources. Please see WP:V. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 17:22, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

That isn't true. Only disputed or obscure facts need sources. Rmhermen (talk) 22:17, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 3

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. The nature of the discussion below suggests that there is still a geographic split on the use of the term corn. It hasn't been adequately demonstrated that maize is sufficiently unrecognizable to counter the point that corn is ambiguous in some parts of the world in some contexts. -- tariqabjotu 03:13, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

---

Maize → Corn – As per WP:COMMONNAME (see the ngram). This article has been in violation of the article naming WP:CRITERIA for quite some time, as evidenced by the talk page, where literally every entry as I type this currently deals with the article's rather silly title. The word "corn" originally meant the staple crop of any particular region (e.g. wheat in England) whereas "maize" was and is unambiguous (though not recognizable to many people outside the UK, see the 4-to-1 majority in American English, a greater ratio even than petrol versus gasoline for British English speakers!). Granted. However, the page corn has been redirecting here for three+ years, so apparently it isn't too ambiguous to use. In fact, check out the ngram over the past two hundred-plus years... See the word "corn" decreasing? I could be wrong, but I'd bet that the plant this article deals with is just as popular now as before. I think the dramatic decline of the word "corn" comes from UK-ers no longer even using "corn" to refer to wheat, etc. *goes and checks...* Score! I'm right! --see relatively stable U.S. mentions of "corn", versus a big decrease until about the year 2000 for British English. Anyway, all that aside, "corn" is clearly unambiguous enough, since it already redirects here. If there's a reason to blatantly ignore WP:COMMONNAME (and WP:RETAIN given the original version of the article, and arguably even WP:TIES given the strong connections between corn and the Americas), WP:PRECISION isn't it. The proposed title is far more recognizable and natural, and even more concise by one letter! Thanks for your consideration. Red Slash 02:10, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support per the nominator and dozens of comments in threads above this one expressing similar sentiments above. Hot Stop talk-contribs 02:22, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment I would say that "maize" is recognizable in Canada, so saying it isn't recognizable outside of Britain is a mistake, since the French term is "maïze", and that is found on bilingual labels in Canada. -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 02:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Good point. In areas where there is a strong influence from Romance languages, "maize" might be more easily recognized as being this crop. Red Slash 03:35, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support. I live in Canada. We have always called it corn. Does anyone call it maize?--Canoe1967 (talk) 03:03, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose - WP:COMMONNAME doesn't mean WP:USANAME; although the planet has more USA/Canada citizens than British/Aus/NZ citizens, India has more English speakers than all put together. "Corn" fails WP:CRITERIA per V. B. Rastogi Modern Biology 1997 "Ambiguity : A single name is often used for two or more animals or plants. Dhodak is the common name of many ... For example, corn is maize in U.S.A., wheat in England, oats in Scotland and Ireland." In ictu oculi (talk) 03:11, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Could you please clarify? Canada = corn. I have been to the US and they = corn. What do they call it down under, UK, an India?--Canoe1967 (talk) 03:19, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

How come corn is a straight redirect to here, then? Seems precise enough to me. Red Slash 03:34, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support Nominator makes a good case, particularly the point that "corn" already redirects here. It appears that "corn" is overwhelmingly the name commonly used for this grain/vegetable in the US, Canada and Down Under. In ictu oculi raises a point about India, but this Google search shows that the word "corn" is very commonly used in India, and this search shows that when "maize" is used in India, the word "corn" is often used in apposition, as if to explain to the reader what maize is. It is clear that "corn" is the common name for the vast majority of English speakers. --MelanieN (talk) 03:58, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Because the dab corn (disambiguation) was moved. User:MelanieN it's called "maize" in India. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:05, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

@In ictu oculi, of course you can find references in books to "maize" in India (or anywhere); books are more formal, more legalistic, more inclined to use a scientific name rather than a common name. That's why a generic search of Google Books is not usually a good way to determine the common name. The regular Google searches that I did indicated that 1) the word "corn" is very commonly used in India (61 million hits for "corn" and "India") and 2) the word "maize" is also used (14 million hits for "maize" and "India"), but those links often have an explanatory note such as "maize (corn)", suggesting that even sources which use "maize" realize that "corn" may be more common or more recognizable. For a good illustration of the situation in India see http://cornindia.com/ ; it uses the word "corn" in most contexts and "maize" in the agricultural context. I really don't see where in the world the word "maize" is the common name, on which we are basing this article title. Not India, that's for sure. --MelanieN (talk) 23:45, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

NB "maize in Arizona" - the name maize is also used in US. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:10, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

No, it isn't used commonly. Your example shows a grand total of five entries at Google books (notice that three are the same entry?) That is about very specific native varieties that no one grows in their gardens. We only know the word because of a misleading commercial. Native Americans don't commonly call it maize either but it helped explain the name of the product.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 04:35, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

"Maize in Texas" also gets results. The issue isn't about counting results, we know what is more common in US. The issue is proving that our American users cannot understand the word "maize" In ictu oculi (talk) 06:33, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose And the reason most of this page is about "corn" is because it is an attempt to make a FAQ so we stop rehashing this issue. Rmhermen (talk) 04:20, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Note: The earliest versions of this article do not exist. (I know I wrote line 3 of the earliest surviving version and probably part of line 4 but not lines 1 and 2). the early software did not preserve every edit. Rmhermen (talk) 04:26, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support per COMMONNAME.
   — Berean Hunter (talk) 04:35, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Cornbread, Candy corn, Corn pudding, Corn-on-the-cob, Corn chowder, Popcorn, etc. ...all make use of the unambiguous term. Maize is not interchangeable with them. I have seen a lot of recipes with "corn" and none with "maize".
     — Berean Hunter (talk) 04:58, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Irrelevant, again the issue per WP:CRITERIA is proving that our American users cannot understand the word "maize" In ictu oculi (talk) 06:33, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose because it is the usual name. Hatagalow (talk) 16:47, 11 August 2013 (UTC).

I would treat any !votes from you with great suspicion considering your socking history. I note the striking similarity between this response and an IP's below.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 18:12, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose as per million or so words wasted on this topic already. Greenman (talk) 17:09, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support per nominator; plenty of evidence that it's the most common name. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 17:54, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support I didn't know what a 'maize' was before I leaned the word maíz in Spanish (recently). Where I live, it is, and has always been with no exceptions, corn.—Love, Kelvinsong talk 20:01, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment. Do the pageview stats count re-directs as a separate view? If so we could see if corn gets more than maize. We could also go with http://www.googlefight.com/ at 17mil vs 2.5 mil, ~6:1--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:04, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

They do, unless the redirect differs only in capitalization. Now, a redirect will almost never outnumber a title in views; if it does, that's a pretty strong suggestion that you have a bad title on your hands. It's not the case here, but Corn's 13,552 views last month is quite a high number for a redirect. If I may invoke the doomed yogurt rule, it's very difficult to imagine Maize getting such traffic as a redirect, at least outside of legacy wikilinks. --BDD (talk) 17:56, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose for all the usual reasons. Johnbod (talk) 01:37, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. "Corn" is a common name for maize but is an ambiguous term. "Maize" is both unambiguous (or nearly so) and is commonly used in many parts of the world. "Maize" is usually considered to be a more precise, dare I say encyclopedic, term for corn. Application of WP:COMMONNAME takes this into account. For example, Wikipedia uses "flatulence" instead of "farting" and "vomiting" instead of "throwing up" despite the common usage of the latter terms. —  AjaxSmack  03:39, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. Per WP:TITLECHANGES, I do not see a very compelling reason to move the article over the redirect. The article's title has been stable for several years, even though this controversial issue has previously been frequently and heavily debated during that time, with no sufficient consensus yet to change it. Also, the third paragraph of WP:COMMONNAME outlines important exceptions such as "Ambiguous ... names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable source". And "When there are several names for a subject, all of them fairly common, and the most common has problems, it is perfectly reasonable to choose one of the others". As stated in previous discussions, "corn" is a generic term in various English-speaking countries to refer to any cereal crop besides maize. Thus, it is not really a suitable precise enough title. Since various biological sources use "maize", it seems to be more common across multiple varieties of English. Zzyzx11 (talk) 07:04, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
• Strongly oppose The use of "corn" for Zea mays is restricted to some varieties of English. As many others have noted above, and when this was discussed before, in many countries, "corn" refers to other grains, as it does in the UK. "Corn" thus fails the precision criterion of WP:AT. It's as unreasonable for Americans to try to change the title of this article as it would be for Britons to try to change the title of Association football to just "Football". Where there are clear ENGVAR differences in usage (as opposed to spelling) which lead to ambiguity, the solution is never to choose one variety of English over another. Peter coxhead (talk) 13:24, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Corn is ambiguous and not used to refer specifically to maize in every English-speaking country (or even most English-speaking countries). Maize is unambiguous. As to most British (or whatever) people not knowing what maize is, that's probably true. But they don't know what corn is either. They do know what sweetcorn or corn-on-the-cob are, but corn alone? Isn't that something you get on your foot? The only possible reason for this move would be to make us USApedia, which we are not. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:05, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

  Precisely. Peter coxhead (talk) 14:27, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose I'm a British twat still angry Her Majesty isn't supreme ruler of the Unted States. LONG LIVE THE QUEEN'S ENGLISH. every user opposing above 15:17, 12 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.228.200.35 (talk) [Geolocate to New York]

Not in the slightest true. Read what some of us wrote, e.g. my point about "Association football" as a title. "Sweetcorn" (the most common name in British English) would be an equally bad title for this article and I would oppose it just as strongly were it suggested. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:37, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

It seems quite a pithy summary (if not entirely complete) of where many supporters are coming from. Johnbod (talk) 12:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose Maize is the correct term 62.252.234.27 (talk) 16:32, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

It's "Wikipedia", not "Wikipædia". Ticklewickleukulele (talk) 00:27, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

And how is that relevant? Corn is ambiguous. This isn't an æ issue. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:50, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Looks like you've echoed Hataglow's argument above.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 18:12, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support If corn is ambiguous, and the Brits "who invented the language so they are always correct" use corn for wheat, why does "corn" redirect here, and not to wheat? Maize is also an American discovery, and predominantly American things are to be referred to in the American way, whereas a British discovery (like Kale) or Australian one (like Vegemite) should be referred to in the manner of the place that discovered/made it. Ticklewickleukulele (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:31, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

If maize/corn should be referred to in the language of those who discovered it, then why are we using any variety of English? The crop was developed by indigenous peoples long before European colonists arrived and long before "America" came into existence. Peter coxhead (talk) 07:28, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Reread - "Corn" means any grassy cereal crop in British English, and at least historically in American English too. Could be barley etc etc. Hence American Bibles using "corn" - see above. Johnbod (talk) 18:11, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. The term "Corn" is used for different crops, depending (mostly) on location. It therefore fails the "precision" criterion of WP:AT. bobrayner (talk) 19:33, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support per WP:TIES and WP:RETAIN. This is also an established WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Corn," so I don't find the precision arguments convincing. --BDD (talk) 17:50, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:TITLECHANGES and WP:AT. "Maize" is more precise. Citing WP:TIES is completely inappropriate; this is a subject of global importance. The first people in the Americas who were asked about the name for it called it "maize". The origins of a domesticated plant or an invention are not what WP:TIES is about (and the plant originated in Mexico, not the US anyway). Plantdrew (talk) 20:19, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
• Mild oppose. The danger of astonishment for us Americans who call it "corn" seems exaggerated, as we generally learn the word "maize" in elementary school when we study Native Americans and Thanksgiving. If you search "maize" and "first thanksgiving" on Google Books, you get many children's books from U.S. publishers, so the word is hardly esoteric. "Maize" makes regular appearances in American popular culture, from the old Mazola margarine ads,[1] to homespun puns on "a-maize-ing" corn products or activities.[2] Increasing Spanish-English bilingualism in the U.S. also contributes to familiarity. Though used less often, "maize" is not alien to Americans. A move should yield a greater benefit, and I don't see one here, as "maize" offers encyclopedic precision and more educational value as a title. Cynwolfe (talk) 00:47, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Style or Stigma

In this article, the "silk" on the ends of an ear are referred to as elongated stigmas. I assumed it would be the style. Can someone double check this? 63.152.120.74 (talk) 01:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)